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to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can

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can do what I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two

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hundred Years Together and everything else, the things that Thomas

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and I are doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all

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because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be

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able to thank you enough. So thank you. The pekan

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Yonashow dot com. Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone

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back to the Peking Yona show. Thomas is back part

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five thirty years war. How you doing, Thomas, I'm right.

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Speaker 2: At some point I want to do a proper analysis

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of the war journal of Peter Hagendorf. This is a

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fascinating artifact. Peter Hagendorf, he was a pikeman, he was

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a mercenary, but he was an officer, and he was

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highly literate. He kept a war journal for twenty one

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years and all told, because his diary's pretty taciturn. And

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he fought for the Catholic League too. To be clear,

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he was a Bavarian, but he fought in every major

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theater for over twenty years. So all told, he marched

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about fifteen thousand miles. And he was at the sacking

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of Magdeburg, which was horrific. You know, the kind of

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stuff that happened there is the sort of thing that

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happened when the when the Red Army approached Berlin. You know,

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mass rape and homicide, looting at at at at scale.

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Uh the popular about three fourths of population were annihilated.

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And uh, mag the Berg had been this Protestant readout,

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and that's one of the reasons it was targeted for destruction,

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but the officers totally lost control of the men. And

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to be clear, uh, and Hagendorf talks about this, you

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know most especially as the war dragged on. You had

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to live off the land, so you were allowed to loot,

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you know, like within reason, like like rape was obviously

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a crime, and technically you weren't supposed to kill a man.

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It wasn't under arms, even though both those things happened

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a lot, but you know, you had to you had

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to feed yourself. And there was whole camp followers with

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these huge mercenary companies, and some guys even like had

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their wives and families with them. I mean obviously they

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were you know, like twenty or thirty miles like outside

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of like the active theater. But you know, this this

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became a way of life because it went on for

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so long. And Hagendorf he actually lived to be pretty old.

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He lived into his late seventies. He became the mayor

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of some town. You know, he was a highly respected guy.

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But yeah, he was very he was very candid about

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the things he saw go on. And this wasn't discovered

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until nineteen eighty eight. And obviously it's it's written in

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a German dialect that is hard to decipher, you know, slowly.

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But I can slowly get through modern German. I can't

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something like that. And if you try and put it

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through an AI program, it just like mad mince meat

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out of it, because you know, it's not it's not

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tailored to translate that sort of dialect. But that's uh,

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that's an important bit a documentary evidence that I consider essential,

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and that that book by I think Peter Wilson that's

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considered the seminal recent history of the Thirty Years War.

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It makes a mention of it, but that's about it.

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I find it incredible that it's not emphasized more in

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English language treatments. But I'm working on finding a way

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to translate excerpts of it and moving forward, I'll see

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what can be done. In the periphery of the Thirty

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Years War was England and Spain, and particularly I think

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I think, I think Spanish imperial decline was approximately caused

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by the Thirty Years War. Even though Spain wasn't a

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major combatant, they essentially bankrolled over to the Catholic cause,

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and there were reasons for that are nuanced. You know,

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the Spanish habsburgs and the Austrican Habsburgs were distinct lines,

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but obviously they had a common interest in the fortunes

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of the Empire, especially because the Spanish Habsburgs. Spain was

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even at zenith. Spain was a great military power, and

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they extracted tremendous wealth from the Americas, but it was

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mostly in terms of specie. There just wasn't there wasn't

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a highly developed industriousness there. You know, There's a highly

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developed banking structure, and the Spaniards actually sold public debt

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on early financial markets, which is really interesting. In Genoa

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and Savoy there was a lot of this kind of

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early financial activity. But some of the Spaniards were really

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concerned about was what they viewed as, you know, the

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integral reputation of the monarchy as the defender of the

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Catholic faith. They retained a crusader's sensibility. I think that

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carried over even into the twentieth century. You know, that's

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why in the Spanish Civil War, I mean, there was

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that sensibility, even though obviously the monarchists were a minority

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fiction and those that were under our arms were mostly

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carloss And and other minority perspectives. Who represents the minority

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perspectives back, you know, for tenders and things. But you know,

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and Spain also had the Spanish Hasburgs had holdings in

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the Low countries, particularly in the Duchy of Orange, which

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was the Protestant heartland, obviously, and the Dutch revolt turned

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into this military quagmire from the Spanish Empire and it

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became a full blown sectarian conflict. So for the sake

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of prestige as well as credibility, you know, obviously, the

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Spaniards had to engage. And uh, don't get me wrong,

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there was plenty of Spanish UH infantry on the ground

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were like actively engaged. But you know, there wasn't there

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There wasn't There wasn't the same commitment at mass scale

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as you know the UH, as was the case of

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the you know, the the Empire. You've got to look

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at the Holy Roman Empire is as being the the

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the element around which all Catholic military power orbited, you know,

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and of course German lands were the dedicated battleground for

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the most part. And uh, there was AH during the UH.

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During the Thirty Years War, the Spaniards made an effort

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to settle accounts with the Dutch reformed and Huguenots streamed

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in from France to support their coreligionists. And uh this

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obviously presented uh a challenge too, because the Spaniards saw

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the potential for a house mobilization on the frontier of

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you know, the Castilian heartland. H that's part of it.

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But you know, and there was uh that was the

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primary local uh loci We're Englishmen under arms were engaged

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as well. It was in the low trees against Spanish forces,

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you know, in Spain, and and Spain and England were

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big enemies at that time. Obviously, well you know, one

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of the reasons the situation in Ireland is complicated, but

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the Gewos strategic imperative in the early modern period for

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what England was doing in Ireland, a lot of a

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lot of it had to do with the threat of

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you know, uh, Ireland becoming a basing hub for Spanish

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military aggression against Britain, which is really interesting and that

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wasn't unfounded. But you know, the and there was a

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there was wild stuff too, a secondary theater in the

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the Orient. In Japan, the Dutch began fighting the Spaniards

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and uh, you know, various shogunates allied with uh one

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faction of the other, which I think is fascinating. So

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this was a truly global conflict, such as these things

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were possible in you know, early modernity. But for context,

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I posit that the zenith of that the packs Romana

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of Spain, I guess that'd be the packs Hispania, was

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approximately fifteen ten to about sixteen sixty. And like I said,

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I but believe that Spanish decline was approximately caused by

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you know, the thirty years of war and what essentially

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bankrupted the imperial coffers therein, you know. And like I

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said it, even though the Spanish Habsburgs were distinct lineage,

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their fortunes were bound up with both houses were interstitially

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bound up in terms of their historical fortunes and interests

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and common intrigues infected both. And uh, you know, Spain

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just got too big. And if we accept that the

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Spanish Empire was the standard bearer of the Roman Church,

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that's one of the things that hurt the Roman Catholic Church.

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It it got too big and just became unmanageable, you know,

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that was and this happened very rapidly, you know, And

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of course they were emboldened I think people forget the

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idea of the reconquista, as you know, just these kinds

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of a handful of moors on the periphery of the

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I of Iberia, you know, who had to be dealt with,

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and you know, it was this sort of lesser crusade

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and you know, this, that and that that happened over

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a couple of decades. The Umia Califate conquered all of Spain.

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Spain was h an Islamic domain, you know, and uh,

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it was centuries before it was reclaimed entirely for christiendom.

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But once it was uh and once the you know, couldcominently,

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the Spaniards started carving out huge swaths in the Americas

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as their exclusive domain. You know. They they became very

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complacent and euburistic and dare I say decadence, you know,

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but also the this year scale of those kinds of

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interest becomes unmanageable. It just doesn't it just doesn't work.

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But you know, at this time too, there was a

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h the Spanish generated it's kind of deep interdependence with Portugal,

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and Portugal had this mighty fleet, you know, and they

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had claims in Brazil obviously, but also Africa and the Orient,

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and those possessions were thinly held, so they got the

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force of the Spanish army in Spanish money behind these

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these holdings, you know, in exchange for you know, essentially

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availing their fleet to the Spanish habsburgs, you know, to

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be clear. And there's a the Spanish, like the British,

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like empires that work. At least for a time, they

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didn't believe in these mass occupations. There was only in

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Angola and mosam b there's a couple thousand Portuguese forts

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and that's it. You know. In Brazil there was something

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like thirty thousand white Europeans, you know, contra two and

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a half million or so indigenous Brazilians. You know, and

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if you can't manage imperial holdings with that sort of

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thin pro and then and then if there was a revolt,

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the Portuguese had come and they'd kill everybody. That's how

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you do it. You know that the Mongols did it

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that way too, you know. And you know you don't

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permanently garrison men just for the sake of doing it either,

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you know, I know, I know people think that I'm

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like an America hater or some thing. I'm not for

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the record, but it just the the wrongheadedness with which

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America proceeds tag Lea is strategically is staggering. There's just

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there's a there's an I literacy there that's somewhat incredible.

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So I I'm not trying to insinuate those sort of

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conceptual prejudices and every subject matter I deal with, but

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I think it's relevant. You know, Spain also around this time,

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they were they were suffering a population decline, and Portugal

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itself only brought about a million or so new subjects

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to the Union with Spain. But it's, uh, it didn't

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really make sense. There was there's something going on when

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your population starts declining. I mean that's not to say that,

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you know, endless population growth is some sort of axiomatic

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good or indicator of cultural or racial health. It's not.

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But when there begins to be some precipitous population decline

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despite the fact that national wealth is increasing and quality

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of life is increasing, that means there's something happening, I think,

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you know, and that was very suddenly. You know, Spain

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just just kind of started dying out, you know, to

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the point where they were having problems managing like literally

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manning the garrisons of this world empire, you know, like

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by the in the at about the midpoint of hostilities

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in sixteen thirty one, there was about four million Castilians,

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which meant they've lost approximately a million people over about

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half a century. I mean, that's staggering. Whenever, and these

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people didn't die of like some plague outbreak or something.

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You know, there was a you know, like in the colonies,

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probably some of that oded disease and and just the

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difficulty of living and unfamiliar and untamed environments. But uh,

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you know, in in in Europe proper, that wasn't the case.

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And even on the periphery, that's not the whole story,

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you know. So something was something, Something was happening here,

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you know, and at uh and the economic profile, like

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I said, Spain was incredibly rich, but it was stagnant.

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There wasn't value added innovation going on there. Spanish were

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importing a huge amount of gold and silver, a huge

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amount of raw material and food, you know, and that

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was it. And uh, after the defeat of and in

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some critical naval engagements, they modernize their warships in a

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way that was impressive. But wartech is its own thing.

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You know, I mean I made that point before the

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Soviet Union made very good weapons. You know that that's

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that exists independently of the the value added economy. It's

235
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:52,880
a different thing. And it's not it's not just a

236
00:21:52,920 --> 00:22:01,880
spontaneous hurting of the price mechanism, you know, assign the

237
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:08,319
correct value to inputs. It's it's something it's it's it's

238
00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:17,599
something metaphysical, I think, but that you know, and that's

239
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:23,079
something too that I think underlay the Thirty Years War.

240
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:32,519
In paradigmatic terms, there's not economic causes of war, but

241
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:40,160
national economics is a function of power, political activity. And

242
00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:51,480
the Dutch and other merchant nations that were ruled by

243
00:22:53,319 --> 00:23:01,000
Protestant aristocrats, they began crowding in on spantas colonial trade

244
00:23:01,759 --> 00:23:06,839
and rising white populations of Protestants in the in the

245
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:12,799
Americas and you know in Asia that played a part

246
00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:19,680
in this two I. The Spanish wanted to crush uh,

247
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,359
the Dutch and the English for that reason also, and

248
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:29,240
sectarianism is plays into that, as does economic competition and

249
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:41,839
particularly the sort of zero sum paradigm that characterized early

250
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:53,359
modern economic activity. You know, it's a perfect storm of

251
00:23:53,480 --> 00:24:01,920
causes and make no mistake. It was Spanish silver was

252
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:14,559
what was funding a tremendous percentage of Catholic military activity,

253
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:23,839
and the war effort couldn't have been sustained in critical

254
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:31,960
capacities without that. And this changed as time went on,

255
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:39,319
and depending on what combatant faction we're talking about, it varied,

256
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,880
but mostly especially early on in the Catholic side, what

257
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:53,119
was called the Flanders school of warfare was fairly dominant

258
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:56,839
in the way the Empire flought as well as the

259
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:04,720
Catholic League. And this owed the fact that the Spanish

260
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:13,440
Spanish infantry systems were tried and true in the common

261
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:20,880
perception of military strategists, in large part because of success

262
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:28,920
in the Turkish War, which again was where pretty much

263
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,680
every man with common experience said cut his proverbial teeth

264
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:43,160
by the time of outset of hostilities, you know. And

265
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:56,440
it was on the one hand, it was highly methodical.

266
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:02,759
It didn't leave a lot of room for what we

267
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:10,680
consider an early iteration of mission oriented tactics, but it

268
00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:14,559
was effective at managing early ranged weapons in a way

269
00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:31,480
that complimented pike infantry, and that, you know, that's another

270
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:43,000
example I think of the Spanish imprint on the pattern

271
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:56,640
of hostilities, especially in terms of the practice of infantry combat,

272
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:04,839
and that's highly significant for a lot of reasons. There's

273
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:11,480
comparatively massive expenditures, I mean, all throughout the existence of

274
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:20,200
the Spanish Empire, but by the turn of the seventeenth century,

275
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:39,720
you know, this exponentially increased, and by sixteen hundred, the

276
00:27:35,559 --> 00:27:48,319
main land element, the main infantry element a Spanish forces

277
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,279
was the Army of Flanders. It had approximately sixty thousand

278
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:58,119
men under arms, which made it the largest operational army

279
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,319
in Europe. You know, and that when you've got that

280
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,799
many men under arms, when you when you're expending that

281
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:22,039
much capital, you know, human and material towards military readiness

282
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:37,559
and wartech, that that that tends towards encouraging hostilities. That's

283
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:43,319
not just a piece and talking point from you know,

284
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:49,599
the early Cold War, That's actually true. You know, it

285
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:59,599
becomes a self fulfilling prophecy in conceptual terms, if you know,

286
00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:08,880
a foot of antipateary mobilization becomes normative. But also it

287
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,039
triggers responses in all kinds of ways that then become

288
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:25,480
war indicators as perceived by actual and potential rivals. And

289
00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:31,839
I think that's part of it too. Europe was incredibly mobilized.

290
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:42,240
Then there was an outsized contemplation of military affairs sort

291
00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:50,359
of across the board. And when the leading continental power,

292
00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:57,599
which at that time was Spain, has tens of thousands

293
00:29:57,599 --> 00:30:02,880
of men under arms, importing massive amounts of silver, and

294
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:17,480
it's primary activity is all things that orbit around military

295
00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:26,039
readiness and innovation, that has a tendency to code institutions

296
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:36,920
towards hostilities of scale. I think that's not to say

297
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:45,720
that it's axiomatic. And you know, these things are complicated,

298
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:48,279
and they got more complicated in the modern age, but

299
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:54,400
I I believe too that that was one of the

300
00:30:54,400 --> 00:31:03,640
reasons why the Cold War became so dangerous, and the

301
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:10,599
potentiality of mobilization at scale also itself becomes a difficult

302
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:17,559
to control variable because potentialities that translate to direct capabilities,

303
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:28,640
you know, means that any political actor has to behave

304
00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:37,680
with the assumption that you know, he can be destroyed

305
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:45,960
if he's not consciously hyper vigilant about, you know, sustaining

306
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:53,960
a potential mobilization timetable that's not gonna disadvantage him relative

307
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,279
the capabilities of an adversary, you know, who can mobilize quicker,

308
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:05,680
so and that leads the situation of permanent readiness, which

309
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:12,880
itself then is you know, perceived as a clear and

310
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,119
present threat just by its very existence. And then of course,

311
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:21,000
you know when human decision makers and become increasingly sidelined,

312
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:24,559
you know, as was the case in the twentieth century,

313
00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:30,519
and there's these weapons that and weapons platforms that are

314
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,240
very binary in terms of their the outcomes that they

315
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:43,240
yield in both battlefield and counter value terms. And you've

316
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:52,559
got conditions where you know, war is always likely, if

317
00:32:52,599 --> 00:33:05,480
not imminent, but that's kind of a aggression also too,

318
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,279
there was there was a naval component in the Thirty

319
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:15,920
Years War, but not narrowly as scaled as one might think.

320
00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:19,079
And I think I think the reason why it was

321
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,160
to the Spaniards. The Spaniards basically had they they had

322
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,839
the coastal, the literal spaces, and the coastal and contiguous

323
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:37,880
zones abutting critical battle spaces locked down. They had a

324
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,920
fleet of about sixty large worships by sixteen hundred, and

325
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,720
they were divided into three equal squadrons, you know, patrolling

326
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:53,240
the straits to the Mediterranean, you know, the coast of France,

327
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,480
the Lisbon Fleet patrolling the Atlantic. They had a small

328
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:08,639
Pacific squadron that essentially protected silver between Panama or approximately

329
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:13,400
you know it's now the Panama Zone and the continent,

330
00:34:14,599 --> 00:34:21,239
and that was generally adequate to deter piracy because despite

331
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,719
we seeing the movies, you know, the sixteenth century pirates

332
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:32,880
weren't going to go up against Spanish warships. But that

333
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,880
there the effect of, like I said, in my opinion,

334
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:44,360
you know, containing that still leads to an infantry slog

335
00:34:48,039 --> 00:34:54,000
It's a innescent counterfactual to contemplate the alternative. I'm not

336
00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:57,360
I'm not a I'm not a naval warfare nerd. But

337
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:09,519
it's nonetheless h intriguing the UH And there's also a

338
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:18,920
concern you know, the Spaniards very much they had a

339
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,039
most integral view of you know, they embody the throne

340
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:32,360
and altered sensibility. They viewed, they viewed the sovereign mandate

341
00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:46,559
and the favor of providence and religious variables two be

342
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:56,440
all integral aspects of the fortunes of the of the

343
00:35:56,519 --> 00:36:03,400
nation and the race and you know, the kingdom. And

344
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,519
they were very they were very cognizant of the potential

345
00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:16,239
for decline, you know. And in the fifteen nineties that's

346
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,559
kind of when the first sort of comparative historiography emerged,

347
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,840
and it was sort of the first suggestion by a

348
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:30,320
storiographers that there's a natural life cycle of states and

349
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,599
nations and races. There was this concern that Spain was

350
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:40,039
entering its terminal stage. However, you know, this kind of

351
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,320
the sort of Spanish interpretation of that potentiality was, well,

352
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,599
that's because people have abandoned God, you know, so if

353
00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:54,320
we can return to God and we can avail our

354
00:36:54,440 --> 00:37:03,679
mighty armaments in the service of crusading, you know, in

355
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,960
defense of christiandom as we always have, that can reverse

356
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,559
this process, and that can reverse you know, the slow

357
00:37:13,679 --> 00:37:19,360
death of our people, which again was literally happening in

358
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:28,760
the form of this precipitous population decline. And obviously that

359
00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:41,920
sort of symbolic psychological characterization of paraplutical developments tends towards

360
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:53,239
sectarian hostilities, or at least a sectarian overlay to these things,

361
00:37:55,679 --> 00:38:03,960
and that in turn added to or contributed to the

362
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:13,519
the siege mentality of Protestants, particularly Calvinists, who were saying

363
00:38:13,599 --> 00:38:20,280
from you know who they they've been insisting long prior

364
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,440
to the evident hostilities that we're going to be programmed.

365
00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:27,159
It's only a matter of time. And you know, the

366
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:31,880
Spanish or brutes, you know, who are simply the the

367
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,719
blades and you know, the and the guns of the Pope,

368
00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:40,400
and at their first opportunity, they're going to exterminate us,

369
00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:48,599
you know. And and then those things did start happening.

370
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:51,079
You know, I'm not that I'm not gonna sit here

371
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:55,639
and suggest there was some conspiracy to exterminate Protestants, but

372
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,320
you know, there there were there were there were massis.

373
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,760
You know, there was a sectarian hatred that took root,

374
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:14,360
that went above and beyond fog of war, brutality and things.

375
00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:16,960
And to be fair, Protestants did horrible things to their

376
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,119
sectarian enemies too, but it was there wasn't a monolithic

377
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:28,760
Protestant church, you know, it was so there wasn't there

378
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:39,159
wasn't you know, a sort of reciprocal enemy concept, you know,

379
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:46,639
to like comparable to the to the Vatican. And that's important,

380
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,519
you know, not not in moral terms, I mean in

381
00:39:48,559 --> 00:39:57,920
conceptual ones. And when people think that they're going to

382
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,559
be ex you know, when they when they think that

383
00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:05,559
they're being substentially threatened with racial annihilation or being wiped

384
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:13,920
away owing to you know, their confessional allegiance, you know,

385
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:22,119
and again confession is ethnos. That's particularly strongly felt in America,

386
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,599
but that's the case in Europe as well, you know,

387
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:36,280
and ethnos is is UH is just as important as

388
00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:43,000
as race and and other key core aspects of UH,

389
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:56,000
the way human identity is structured, and that it's a

390
00:40:56,079 --> 00:41:06,320
fact that absolutely meg deifies hostilities and magnifies violence within

391
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,840
the course of hostilities and renders things possible that and

392
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:20,119
even normative that wouldn't be in conflicts that aren't you know,

393
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:31,800
characterized by those factors, you know. And but also to

394
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:40,480
the the Empire, you know, the Holy Roman Empire, they

395
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:46,400
didn't have the same concern for what the Spanish called

396
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:53,039
reputacion lispec to that monarchy. There's this whole complicated sort

397
00:41:53,079 --> 00:41:59,039
of cultural reverence for monarchy the Spanish shad. But what

398
00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:07,119
the Empire did did have in common. They stressed the

399
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,480
majesty of the Holy Roman Emperor. You know, there was

400
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,639
an exalted aspect to this, and that was also something

401
00:42:13,679 --> 00:42:15,840
that's one of the reasons why the Hasburgs were able

402
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:24,920
to capture this monopoly on the imperial crown, you know.

403
00:42:25,039 --> 00:42:31,920
The Halfsburgs and the Roman Catholic viewpoint, the Halfsburgs were

404
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:36,239
selected by God to rule. They were put in charge

405
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,000
of the destiny of their subjects and of Catholic people,

406
00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:50,360
you know, and everything that flowed from the sovereign mandate

407
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:59,400
ultimately could be traced back to providential will. So if

408
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,840
here's some howes didn't radical and you're going around smashing

409
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:08,320
icons and you're putting priests to the sword, you who

410
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:14,239
are being recalcitrate and refusing to abide the new order,

411
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:18,400
you know, Roman Calolics, they're gonna look at you as

412
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:28,880
being utterly Satanic. That's a perfect storm of variables tending

413
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:37,760
towards a remorseless brutality at scale. I don't think that

414
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:50,000
can be disputed, you know. And ultimately there was for

415
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:59,639
a time, particularly after the Turkish War, there was talk

416
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:06,039
of a sort of informal union whereby Rome would be

417
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,559
Rome itself as a city state, would be incorporated into

418
00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:16,920
Spain's kind of informal empire, you know, and directly under

419
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:27,440
its imperial influence, you know, literally becoming the the army

420
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:36,280
of the pope, you know, and uh, this actually went

421
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,960
back to the ascendancy of the Borgias. I think it

422
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:50,920
was Alexander the sixth, whoever was pope, and fourteen ninety

423
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:58,880
two when Spain and Portugal forty ninety four, when Spain

424
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,719
and Portugal essentially I did the new world up by

425
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:10,559
the treaty that tows the d s, the Pope began

426
00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:16,079
speaking this way as this kind of symbiotic relationship between

427
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:21,519
the Empire and the Holy See, whereby like I just said,

428
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:26,159
you know, like the the arms of the hard power

429
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:34,119
and the army and navy of Iberia would would become

430
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:39,199
you know, the the arms of the of the Holy See.

431
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:46,639
And in turn, you know that the monarchy would would

432
00:45:46,639 --> 00:45:56,000
have the direct mandate of Heaven, you know. And uh,

433
00:45:56,079 --> 00:46:02,559
that's a lot of Protestant propaganda even into the twentieth century,

434
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,360
you know, would talk about they talk about the pope

435
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,480
as the Pope as a Roman dictator, you know, And

436
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,400
and the Catholic Church is it's this, it's this pagan

437
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,440
imperium that you know, has always wanted to you know,

438
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:22,519
wipe out pious Christian dumb in favor of of of

439
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:26,719
this holy you know, anti Christ and mandate like that

440
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:34,159
that's where they get that from, you know, I mean

441
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,079
it runs somewhat deeper than that, like even I mean

442
00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:43,599
the point uh John Jay, he's my favorite of the

443
00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:46,039
founding fathers, him in Hamilton and him, and he was

444
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:50,280
something of an acolyte of Hamilton's. But Jay and Hamilton,

445
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:57,360
they both wrote in the Federalists that we you know,

446
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,760
we being Americans, we're in Anglo Saxon p people that

447
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,880
were liberating ourselves from this Latin oppressive you know, uh,

448
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:13,159
monarchy that's the alien to our people, which is really interesting.

449
00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:20,719
But I mean that that runs deep in Protestant sensibilities,

450
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:26,239
particularly obviously dissenters. You know that like Anglicans are their

451
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:33,239
own thing. There there are reformed who uh abide aspects

452
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,400
of the Anglican rite. And I don't have a problem

453
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,280
with that. I wasn't raised in that, but I don't.

454
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,199
I'm not one of these people. I'm not like one

455
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:44,920
of these primitive Baptists who who claims that that's satanic

456
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:50,320
or something. But it's it's very much a different thing, obviously,

457
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:56,639
and it's I h, I don't offend Anglicans on deck,

458
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:01,559
but it has a very different source, you know. But

459
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,039
this this understanding of the Americans as a people as

460
00:48:05,039 --> 00:48:13,360
this Germanic element that was subjugated by a latinate overcast

461
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:23,800
that's deeply coded into dissenter Protestant sensibilities, you know, and

462
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:31,159
always has been. And I find that really interesting. But

463
00:48:33,559 --> 00:48:37,320
you know, all this, all this stuff has to be considered,

464
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:40,960
and the Thirty Years War, and I think the War

465
00:48:41,079 --> 00:48:45,000
the War three Kingdoms too. I think the direct line

466
00:48:45,039 --> 00:48:47,199
between the War three Kingdoms and the War between the

467
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:50,519
States and America, and I think the Worth three Kingdoms also.

468
00:48:50,519 --> 00:48:52,639
It was kind of a microcosm of what happened on

469
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:55,800
the continents, because what happens in Britain often is a

470
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,599
microcosm what happened on the continents.

471
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:01,039
Speaker 1: You know.

472
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 2: At some point, maybe we'll discuss that and then and

473
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:14,079
then discuss Cromwell's ascendency in lordship, which has related to

474
00:49:14,119 --> 00:49:18,079
this constellation of historical variables of the Thirty Years War

475
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:25,559
and beyond. Obviously, the perception of a Catholic power play

476
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:32,599
emergent from the Holy Roman Empire and from the Spanish Empire,

477
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:42,679
and Protestants, particularly Calvinists, believing that they were going to

478
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:51,760
be exterminated. That was another factor that very very much

479
00:49:51,840 --> 00:50:03,280
contributed to the severity of hostilities. You know what. The

480
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:09,880
the Lutheran experience is somewhat different, although that it depended

481
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,119
on locale and theater too. There was definitely there were

482
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:19,159
definitely sectarian massacres between Calogs and Lutherans on both sides.

483
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:28,599
But yeah, it's important. Yeah, I forgive me if that

484
00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:31,079
was a bit scattershot. I I'm not feeling well at

485
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:34,280
the moment, but that's all I got for today. I

486
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:41,159
promise I'll be more on the ball next time, and

487
00:50:41,159 --> 00:50:43,599
I'll see what I can I'll see I'll see what

488
00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:49,960
I can do about finding them the direct testimony of

489
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,599
of Peter Hagendorff. Like I said, I'm actively working on

490
00:50:55,199 --> 00:50:59,679
finding a correct translation of some of these excerpts, but

491
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,039
I think that'd be worth getting into.

492
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,079
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, No, and I don't think it was scottershot

493
00:51:05,079 --> 00:51:09,119
at all. It seems to be linear, So yeah, great,

494
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,800
all right, I encourage everyone go over to Thomas's substack

495
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,719
real Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com, and

496
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,440
you can connect to him, uh pretty much everywhere from there,

497
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:27,000
And maybe one of these these days Astral will remember

498
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:30,079
that so that he can tag in the Inquisition episodes,

499
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:33,440
which I think he did. He dropped the message saying

500
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,639
he actually did. He repaired that, Thomas, Yeah, I.

501
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:40,119
Speaker 2: Wasn't trying to get in my feelings be a dick.

502
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:41,880
I just like I said, I was starting to think

503
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:46,840
you guys were embarrassing yourself because it's happened like a

504
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,599
couple of times, like why do I never appear on.

505
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:52,559
Speaker 1: These Hey that's astral That may all right.

506
00:51:52,639 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: I know you guys are my friends. I don't really

507
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,239
think that you're embarrassed to be associated.

508
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: With me, all right, Thomas, till then next time.

509
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah, thank you. Bady