WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.080 Little yacht Rock. 2 00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:05.200 On a Wednesday, I told porder to watch the yacht 3 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:09.160 Rock documentary on HBO Max because my next guest told 4 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:09.880 me to watch it. 5 00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:12.919 I've got to say, you have pretty phenomenal taste all 6 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:16.079 of your I'm glad you know. 7 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:20.199 That's how we're starting Chris Camaradie Liven Studio log on YouTube. 8 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:21.760 Right now, We've got seven viewers. 9 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.920 You can seek in sunglasses and a shirt that I'm 10 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:28.440 legitimately envious of, which is a T shirt with a 11 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:31.519 picture of Aaron Falk on it. Oh in the Goat 12 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:34.439 Adam Mikholitch and Aaron is trying to fix his ear 13 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:36.039 piece before he goes on television. 14 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:38.159 It's an excellent T shirt. 15 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:38.479 Thank you. 16 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:39.880 How'd you get that done? 17 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.960 Uh? There's a website called Tea Public okay, where you 18 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.320 can upload high resolution photos and make them look weird 19 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.759 and then they'll print a T shirt for you. 20 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:51.119 Okay. 21 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:54.520 So there was a time for a good four or 22 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:57.039 five year stretch. We were making really stupid T shirts 23 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.759 as like a side Joe Kusseles as a group of friends. 24 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.520 Have any other falk teas or is that your only one? 25 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.519 I have one? Falk made a once in a lifetime 26 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:09.959 one that I lost that I of you, not of me, 27 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:15.519 of the real goat Gordon Monson, no way correct. I 28 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:17.920 haven't seen it since. The reason why I lost it 29 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:22.359 is because, long story short, my bachelor party was in Moab, 30 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.480 and for some insane reason, there was a bachelorette party 31 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:29.799 in Moab as well, and we met at one of 32 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.359 two bars in Moab and the groups got together and 33 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.120 they started dancing to country music. Somebody liked my shirt 34 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:39.120 and they asked for it and I gave it to him. 35 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:39.840 Very nice of you. 36 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:43.480 It's now no longer a bar, it's gone, so now 37 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:47.159 there's only one official bar in Moab. This was This 38 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:51.319 was called the Rio, and it was a great time. 39 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:54.280 So you'll have to ask Aaron about the shirt that 40 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.519 I don't know if he even has it. It's an 41 00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:57.200 amazing one. 42 00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:00.400 Falk has impressive Moab knowledge. By the way, I went 43 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:02.400 down to Moab with Falk, our guy Nade bench and 44 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:04.599 Trap and we played golf. And I don't think I 45 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:06.359 had been to Moab since I was in college. I 46 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:08.639 just have not been that down south very much. And 47 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:10.719 Aaron knew where to eat, he knew where to go, 48 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:11.520 He knew where to stay. 49 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:15.039 A lot of his guys at school at Utah State 50 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.240 were moab room amazing stuff. 51 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:19.479 Okay, yeah, without him, I would have been lost. But 52 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:20.719 otherwise we had a great time. 53 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:21.039 Great place. 54 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.199 We need to get you down there. Hey, let's go. 55 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.400 I was thinking about I think the last time, one 56 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.080 of the last times I went golfing was when we 57 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.159 were at Wassatch Mountain State Park and I wore my 58 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:33.599 Antonio Daniel's. 59 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.439 Jersey, yes, and your garden gloves. 60 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:38.240 And my garden gloves. And the sheriff what do we 61 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.599 call him, the ward, the marshall, the marshall, sorry, you know, aggressive. 62 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:44.360 The marshall was none too pleased. 63 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.039 Yeah, so, yeah, that's right. Did he ask you to 64 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:49.240 stop playing? Did he kick you off the course? 65 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:54.199 No, he he asked me to I think he asked 66 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:55.159 me to put shoes on. 67 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:56.080 Oh that's right. 68 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:59.159 You also didn't have shoes. Yeah, yeah, I remember, uh yeah, 69 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.759 I remember that. In time scenario, you also teed off 70 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.120 for a par three with your driver and it was 71 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:06.639 a great shot and it actually worked out. 72 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:07.879 Yeah, I think I landed on the green. 73 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:09.800 It's very impressive. So we need to get you down 74 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:10.560 involve it's a good time. 75 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:10.719 Man. 76 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:12.759 We had a good time. And when you get bench 77 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:14.759 and fall together, you never know how it's going to 78 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:18.159 go down, all right, Christopher. Big news of the week 79 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:21.800 this week, Craig Smith has been encouraged to find more 80 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:24.759 constructive things to do with his time. He's no longer 81 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:26.520 the head coach at the University of you Top, So 82 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.199 let's just get your reaction to that news, and then 83 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:31.039 we'll kind of dig in a couple of dynamics here. 84 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:35.080 Like everyone else thinks, somewhat odd timing, But if you 85 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.479 are a smart person who can read the tea leaves, 86 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.919 you are getting a jumpstart potentially on a coaching search 87 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:43.280 now as opposed to three or four weeks from now. 88 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:50.560 I understand the argument of wanting to retain players for 89 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.680 the next potential coaching staff, but I think one thing 90 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:57.439 we can say is the next potential coaching staff needs 91 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:59.520 to make wholesale upgrades on this roster if they're going 92 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:03.159 to be competit. And there are some pieces I think 93 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:07.199 you can say on this team. But Craig Smith is 94 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.319 a good coach. But looking at his track record, even 95 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:14.120 going back to Utah State, he generally performed really well 96 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:19.000 with guys he inherited. Namish Kita is the one that 97 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.879 I can really think of that he brought in. Difference 98 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.800 Maker went pro is in. I think he's in the 99 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:29.040 Celtics rotation. But you know, Sam Merrill, he inherited. Sam 100 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.120 Merrill is so old our guy. Sam's twenty eight now, 101 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.319 which makes me feel very old. Sam committed to Stu Moral, 102 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:39.240 that's how That's how long ago. He came back and 103 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.759 played for Tim Durrea, who was Stu's an assistant. And 104 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:45.040 then when Tim got fired, you know, Craig gired and 105 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.519 so on and so forth. So long winded way of saying, 106 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.399 if Utah is going to be good, I understand the 107 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:55.240 fan base's desire to get a somewhat exciting new head coach. 108 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:59.240 You gotta get plenty of very exciting talent, that's s 109 00:04:59.240 --> 00:04:59.879 bottom line. 110 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.800 Yeah, you're not wrong, And I do believe this was 111 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:05.759 more of a talent issue than a coaching issue. I mean, 112 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:09.079 let's keep in mind, Utah Basketball was picked to finish 113 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.480 last in the Big Twelve this year, and when you 114 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:16.279 look at the expectation for who most people thought they 115 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.240 would be and the fact that they're mid table with 116 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:23.120 a chance to still win ten conference games. I actually 117 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.759 think Craig did a good job this year coaching the roster. 118 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:28.759 The problem, Chris, as you know, is this isn't the NBA. 119 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:32.240 Will Hardy did not draft these players. Will hard you 120 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:34.920 to not acquire these players. That's Danny, that's justin. That's 121 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:38.839 the jazz front office in college if you don't have talent. 122 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:41.199 It also comes back to the head coach. 123 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.160 Now in the new day and age of college of basketball, 124 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.319 it's not as on the coach as it used to 125 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:49.480 be because you have to have a healthy economic structure 126 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:51.319 behind you to pay these players in a way you 127 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:54.399 didn't used to. And I still have questions about where 128 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:58.959 Utah's collective is. I honestly don't know. Mark Carlin releases 129 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.639 a statement. You hear things about where they're at now, 130 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.639 the excitement for where they could be moving forward. But 131 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.560 from a basketball standpoint, it's pretty clear that economically you 132 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:11.120 taught this point, has just elected not to lean into 133 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:14.279 the basketball financing the way that Brigham Young has. How 134 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:17.720 much of the consternation around Craig and Utah basketball do 135 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:19.759 you think it's tied to what Kevin is doing down south? 136 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.399 I think it plays a role in it. I think 137 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:24.680 you'd be a fool if you didn't say that out loud. 138 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.279 Either you're up in the night or you're just lying 139 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:30.720 to yourself, and you could potentially be doing both. But 140 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:37.079 the same way, BYU was gritting their teeth for ten years, 141 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.480 while Kyle, you know, was kind of running the table 142 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:45.600 over them with that, with that win streat you can't 143 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.319 be shown up in such dramatic fashion by your rival, 144 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:54.000 be so boring, be so irrelevant, and just not have 145 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.639 the fan base get apathetic. The fan base has been 146 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:58.639 apathetic for a long time. Let's be honest. I mean 147 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:03.399 we've talked about I think the last time they had 148 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:07.920 a really good team, that Sweet sixteen team with Kuzma, Yeah, 149 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:12.360 Delon Wright, yaka Perl. They haven't made an NCAA tournament 150 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.399 almost ten years. It's so wild, that is insane. Haven't 151 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:17.879 had a player drafted since Kyle Kuzma in twenty seventeen. 152 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:19.759 And I know, and I know the draft thing. 153 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:23.040 You know, like you need pros, you need a fair point. 154 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:25.439 Yeah, not only do you need pros, but you need 155 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:29.240 guys who can go over and play at Barcelona Real, 156 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:33.240 just like Utah hasn't had it right. And I know 157 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:35.920 who is the dude who wants Saint John's that everyone 158 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:36.399 was mad about. 159 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:37.600 Davon Smith. 160 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:38.720 Is he a difference make around? 161 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.439 Yeah? Yeah, he's good. Okay, he's really good. 162 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.720 But does he make them a top six team in 163 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:45.360 the Big twelve? 164 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.600 Probably not, But he gets them a lot closer because 165 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:49.160 he's exactly what they're missing this year. 166 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.199 Okay, he's exactly what they're missing this year. 167 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:54.720 My argument would be, you need at least one or 168 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:57.040 two guys better than a guy like that in order 169 00:07:57.079 --> 00:07:58.879 to really turn this thing around. And I don't think 170 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:02.720 Utah has come close to developing anybody like that in 171 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:03.879 house for a very long time. 172 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:06.800 It's very fair and it's a simple exercise, and you 173 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:09.360 can do it with both the local stuff and nationally. 174 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.439 I mean, whoever wins the national championship this year, whoever 175 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.560 is in the final four, they will have more than 176 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:21.759 two or three high level pros NBA guys, fringe rotation players, 177 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:23.439 and then maybe a couple of players that can go 178 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:25.800 over to Europe. And we have examples of that that 179 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:27.639 we can look at with the University of Utah. The 180 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:31.800 best teams Rick ever had had Andre pro Alex Jensen, 181 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.879 European pro Britton Johnson NBA and europe Mike Doliak made 182 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:37.159 money playing pro basketball. 183 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:42.080 Hanald Metzla like they. I mean, yes, probably the best example. 184 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:44.720 So all of these teams that we all watched in 185 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:48.120 the nineties that didn't just make the tournament but made runs. 186 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:50.399 One of them came within a red bull of winning 187 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.039 a national championship. They're up ten at halftime with Kentucky 188 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:55.480 and then I'll never forget man. They come out of 189 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:57.799 the locker room in the second half within five minutes 190 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:00.840 and like their gas. Because Rick was essentially playing seven guys. 191 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.639 He wanted his top shelf players playing. And it's not 192 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.960 just Utah. I mean right now, Kevin Young down at 193 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.840 BYU has two pros for Shore, two NBA guys for 194 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:14.360 sure in Yegor Demon and Cannon Catchings, and a guy 195 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:17.080 in Richie Saunders who's playing his way onto the radars 196 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.240 and scouts. He's really good. He is a European guy, 197 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:24.399 for sure. I think that's probably it. I know Dallen 198 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:27.480 Hall talks about wanting to play pro basketball, but as 199 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:29.919 John Kalipari used to say when somebody asked him, Ani 200 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:32.360 prosy yat he said, I have twelve go ask him, right, 201 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:34.799 they all think they can play. But no, to your point, like, 202 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.360 if you want to win championships, if you want to 203 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:40.600 compete for championships, if you want to make the tournament 204 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.840 in advance, this is a player's game at the end 205 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.240 of the day. Luke Walton took over the Warriors from 206 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.720 Steve Kerr and won like thirty seven or thirty nine games. 207 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.879 Luke Walton couldn't get a job. He just had that 208 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:54.519 group of players. So the unfortunate reality is the coach 209 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:56.120 is the one who falls on the sword. He's the 210 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.679 one that loses his job because you can't fire the players. 211 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.720 This to me is a talent issue, period, and not 212 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:03.440 a coaching issue in my opinion. 213 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.200 Oh, it's been an issue for a long time. I 214 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:10.879 mean Larry, Larry inherited, I mean our guy Bill. Next 215 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:12.519 time you have Bill on, you should ask Bill about 216 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:14.240 his first year on the be He covered that first 217 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:17.120 Larry team that arm Yeah, that won like five games 218 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:18.039 back in the PAC twelve era. 219 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:20.399 Idea, Bill Arm, Let's get Bill on this week. 220 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:25.200 Larry built it into something that was tangible and it worked. 221 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:27.639 Chris Hill was a huge Larry guy made him a 222 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:31.159 top ten paid coach in the nation, which you can 223 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:36.120 make an argument is is a reach, but Larry proved 224 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.879 to be able to get to the NCAA tournament and 225 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.559 did it a few times. It's interesting in retrospect that 226 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:48.200 fans were frustrated with Larry when you know Mark Carlin 227 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:51.039 decides to fire Larry. I think they were on the 228 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:55.240 hook for about seven million of dead contract money with him, 229 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:57.720 and then I think it's about four with Craig. So 230 00:10:57.799 --> 00:11:00.679 in three and a half years, the athletic Department has 231 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.879 had to pay essentially eleven million dollars of dead money 232 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:07.519 to coaches that have been released from their contract. For 233 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.879 a school like you taught, that's a lot. It's it's 234 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:15.279 a lot. We're not talking about a blue blood program 235 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.919 that has cash rolling in. And to your point, I 236 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.039 think one of the main reasons why this move was 237 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:25.080 made was because the apathy within the donor booster supporter 238 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:31.320 base reached a level that was untenable. And what is 239 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:37.000 next is people going to try to live in the past, 240 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:40.639 which I think is a very dangerous game, especially a 241 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:44.360 thirty years ago type past. But if those are the 242 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:46.559 people that are cutting in checks, all these years later, 243 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:49.440 you kind of have to listen to them. So how 244 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:54.919 this thing shakes out will see, But safe to say 245 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:56.559 you have to nail the higher man. But you have 246 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:58.519 to nail the higher and. 247 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:01.159 Before we get to what's next, because that's ultimately where 248 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:03.960 I want to go to. In just a moment, there's 249 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.320 a little bit of pressure on Mark to kind of 250 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:08.039 get this thing right. 251 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:08.320 Yeah. 252 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:10.240 You know one of the things that we talked about, 253 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:12.879 and you and I discussed this Tom Homo after he 254 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.480 announced that he's stepping down after twenty years, and look 255 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:18.799 for people that are upset. I know there are other 256 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:21.279 sports outside of basketball and football, but these are the 257 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:24.320 revenue generators, and these are what people watch more than 258 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.080 anything and are interested in more than anything. Shout out 259 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.120 to the other coaching hires you know that were made 260 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:32.279 outside of it. But Tom essentially went five for five. 261 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:34.320 You know when you look at Dave Rose and Bronco 262 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.600 Menenhall and Mark Pope and Kline Satake and now the 263 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:40.840 early returns on Kevin Jung seemed to be positive. And 264 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.519 Mark's only hires Craig that didn't work. He's only outside higher, Yeah, 265 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:48.759 he's only outside higher. Yeah, And he gave Gavin Peterson 266 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.200 the job after Lynn Leu. Yeah yeah, right right, And 267 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.519 so ultimately the plan was in place, I believe for 268 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:56.840 more Goan to take over for Kyle before Mark took 269 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:01.000 his job. So we have Mark Harlin, who, if we're honest, 270 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:03.639 had a bit of a rough year A little bit 271 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.720 here there, some rough looks. The press conference after the 272 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:10.240 BYU game took a lot of heat, was reprimanded from 273 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:12.799 the conference, they had to pay a fine, and the 274 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:17.279 one main major higher he made is now over. I 275 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:18.679 don't know how much of it was his call. I 276 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:20.120 don't know how much of it was boosters. I don't 277 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.519 how much of it was Taylor Randalls, one of the 278 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.159 Taylor Randall's like an underrated figure and all this stuff, 279 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:27.879 because that dude is sharp, he's very smart, and he's run. 280 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:28.840 He's a sports guy too. 281 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.840 He's a sports guy, but he's a wicked smart businessman, 282 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:35.879 like he understands the bottom line. So were these boosters 283 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.559 going to Taylor and then Taylor going to Mark and saying, look, 284 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.360 we got to do something here. Is there something with 285 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:44.000 player retention that they were worried about, which is why 286 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:46.200 the timing was right? Now, like do they want Ezra 287 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:48.799 usr back, and are there players that feel like they're 288 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:51.639 underutilized that they want to keep. I don't fully know 289 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:54.240 how it all went down at the end of the day, 290 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.039 but it does sound like a lot of this was 291 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:02.559 booster driven, and so the reasons could be varied. We 292 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.200 could reduce it to the fact that he didn't win enough. 293 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.240 We could reduce it to the fact that the attendance 294 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.799 continues to dwindle. And it's a basketball community that I 295 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.559 do think needs a little shot of juice, needs a 296 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:17.600 little shot of life. And that's why let's move over 297 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.320 to what's next. When you look at the direction that 298 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:25.440 Mark could take here, there's a list of young coaches 299 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:28.000 at smaller schools that have done a great job and 300 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:32.000 kind of the college basketball ecosystem has always worked like this. 301 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.279 You take a small school from a smaller conference, you 302 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:37.879 get an auto bid to the NCAA Tournament because you 303 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.360 won your conference. You win a couple of games, and 304 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.159 your life changes. Craig did it right, and so Mark 305 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:45.960 has already followed that model. You have names like Eric 306 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.720 Olsen from UC San Diego. You have Nico Medved from 307 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.720 Colorado State, you have Eric Henderson, from South Dakota State. 308 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:56.080 You have Leon Rice from Boise, Russell Turner from UC Irvine. 309 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.440 This is a list put together by Jeff Borzello. So 310 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:02.679 that's one at the young college coach that's done well 311 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:04.360 at a small school and you're gonna make him rich 312 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:06.960 to coach in the Big twelve. The other avenue, as 313 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.159 you outline just now, is the Johnny Bryant, the Alex Jensen, 314 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.440 de Andre Miller, the former utes to sit on the bench. 315 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:19.240 Let's start here. Do you think in our state it 316 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.240 is over sold to need a BYU guy, need a 317 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:25.440 Utah guy, need a guy that understands the community. Do 318 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.360 you think that's inn Do you think it's Do you 319 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.080 think it's overrated, because every time one of these jobs 320 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.120 comes comes open, Chris, this is what we do. As 321 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.679 soon as Bronco left, it was Kilane right. Kevin's different, 322 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:37.759 you know, but LDS b Yu it's kind of a 323 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:40.080 different thing. Do you think you have to understand Utah 324 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:40.960 to take this job? 325 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:48.440 Urban didn't, Urban didn't. I don't think so. But if 326 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.919 we're talking about the power brokers behind the scenes, they 327 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:57.000 are the folks who presumably were involved during the Heyday, 328 00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:59.759 and they lived it, and if they're going to have 329 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:04.480 a say, they're going to trend in that direction. They 330 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:08.039 do not want to see the bleachers covered up anymore 331 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.240 in the upper deck. They shouldn't be covered up. They 332 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:12.960 shouldn't be I mean, like it's been like that for 333 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:17.440 so long it's insane. I personally think the Utah fan 334 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.840 base as a whole doesn't show out the same way 335 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:24.200 some of the other fan bases in this stay tue 336 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.600 for basketball. They they just don't and they haven't for 337 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.799 a long time. And maybe it is just being fed 338 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:34.799 up with being so average or below average. But I 339 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:39.159 can tell you the one time I was at the 340 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.080 Huntsman Center where I felt like it was at the 341 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.639 Marriott Center or up at up in Logan. I can't 342 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:48.360 And I've covered a bunch of games there for fifteen years. 343 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:49.679 I can't remember it. 344 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:50.639 Yeah, So. 345 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.919 There is a lot that goes into this. Like I said, 346 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.480 are you willing to go out and pay and Alex 347 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.960 Jensen five to seven million dollars a year to leave 348 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.079 the NBA lifestyle to take over at his alma mater, 349 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:13.440 knowing that the nil landscape at the alma mater might 350 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.559 be on shaky ground, I mean, nobody's ever going to 351 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:19.559 come out and talk about what numbers they have because 352 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.960 they're afraid of looking bad. But I think the Frand 353 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.920 for Scilla tweet caught fire a little bit. And I 354 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.640 don't think Frand was wrong in putting that out there either. 355 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.920 There are many layers into what constitutes building a winning 356 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.839 program in college basketball in college football in twenty twenty 357 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:42.799 five now, and you mentioning the talent, looking at the talent, 358 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.640 is there a indispensable player on this roster that absolutely 359 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.720 has to come back next year? There's not. No, there's not. 360 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:52.240 No, there's not there's not. 361 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.480 I mean, like, can't you can't be a power for 362 00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:01.279 conference team in a market that is growing, at a 363 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:06.279 school that presumably is in a decent spot that should 364 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.359 be in a better spot when it comes to nil 365 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.240 and not have a single indispensable player. 366 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.720 It's a really, really fair point because if you look 367 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.920 at the roster, so these are the players, there would 368 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:19.200 be candidates to come back, and I think you'd like 369 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.200 Ezra Sarback is at the end of the world if 370 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.519 you don't get him back, it's not But he said 371 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.319 he's had some real bride moments. He was the best 372 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.400 player on the floor in that byu Win. So, I 373 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.359 think you would like Ezra back, but it's not the 374 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:34.440 end of the world. Keanu Daz is a sophomore. He 375 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.319 has shown Spurts got the same deal. Think you'd like 376 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.240 him back, Not a big deal if you don't have him. 377 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:43.119 Hunter Erickson's gone. He's a senior. Of course, when you 378 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.119 look down the roster, so is lost in lovering and 379 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:50.319 Gabe Mattson, as is Gabe's brother Mason Shrob Jamps is 380 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:54.880 a junior. Jake Wallen might be the answer. Jakes's sophomore. 381 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.440 He was a pretty good player. But no, to your point, 382 00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.599 none of these players leaving would kill your program. 383 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.519 Yeah, and that is pretty damning. I think it is. 384 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.759 And the fact that we have to go back to 385 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:12.240 twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, seventeen to really talk about the 386 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:18.240 last time a Utah team had a potentially a potential 387 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:20.720 NBA player on its roster is pretty wild. 388 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.279 It's fair, No, it's very fair. What So let me 389 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:24.400 get your thoughts on. 390 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.400 So, let me ask you, let me interrupt you. Yeah, 391 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.480 is going back in the time machine? Is that the 392 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:34.799 right move for a guy who if we're talking theoretically. 393 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:36.960 And Alex, who's been a head coach in the G 394 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.920 League only hasn't coached college basketball. I don't think since 395 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:43.079 he was an assistant for Rick at Saint Louis in 396 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:48.920 like twenty eleven, almost fifteen years. Yeah, you know, taking 397 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.599 Andre Miller out of Grand Rapids or wherever he is. 398 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:52.640 Yep. 399 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:59.319 I just I can understand the draw, the desire for, 400 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.400 you know, the legacy to come back, but I honestly 401 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.200