WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.960 Oh he is, folks, it's show tied. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.599 People say good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater, they are cold, sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:15.960 popcorn and no monsters. 5 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.199 In the protection booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:54.880 Off carsa Blanca city of hope and despair, located in 7 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:59.960 French Morocco in North Africa, the meeting place of adventurers, fugitives, criminals. 8 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:04.120 Refugees lord into this danger swept oasis by the hope 9 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:07.680 of escape to the Americas. But they're all trapped, for 10 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:12.439 there is no escape. Against this fascinating background is woven 11 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:15.920 the story of an imperishable love and the enthralling saga 12 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:20.319 of six desperate people, each in Casablanca to keep an 13 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.560 appointment with destiny. I was willing to shoot Captain Rhino, 14 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:25.640 and I'm willing to shoot you, all right, Major. 15 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:26.439 You asked for it. 16 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:45.519 You knew much. 17 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:46.280 Shy loved. 18 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:59.120 How much I still love you. I know a good 19 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.480 deal more about you than you suspect. I know, for instance, 20 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:05.319 that you're in love with a woman, perhaps a strange 21 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:07.760 circumstance that you both should love the same woman. 22 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:13.280 What do you want for Salem? I don't buy and 23 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:16.080 sell human being. It's too bad. As Catser Black is 24 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:16.919 leaving commodity. 25 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:18.919 You can ask any price you want, but you must 26 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.000 give me those letters version no deal, all right. 27 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:22.520 I tried to reason with you. 28 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:23.479 I tried everything. 29 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:26.120 Now I want those letters more. 30 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.960 Welcome to the Projection booth. I'm your host. Mike White 31 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:57.919 joined me once again. It's mister Bill Ackerman. 32 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:00.400 This sort of takes a sting out of being occupied, 33 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:00.840 doesn't it. 34 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.800 Also joining the booth for the first time is Federico Bertolini. 35 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:06.719 Thank you so much for having me. Mike. It's a 36 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:07.479 pleasure to be here. 37 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.879 We are wrapping up another month of Patreon requests with 38 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:14.159 one from Brian to Zatori. It's maybe the most obscure 39 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.240 film we've ever discussed on the show, and I feel 40 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:18.319 really bad that so few people will have a chance 41 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:20.680 to see it. It's a nineteen forty two film from 42 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:25.400 director Michael Curtiz, Aasa Blanca. It's the story of Rick Blaine, 43 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.319 played by Humphrey Bogart, the owner of a nightclub in 44 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.800 Morocco whose place is populated by immigrants trying to escape 45 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:35.879 the ever expanding Nazi occupation of Europe and Africa. He's 46 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.759 visited by a figure from the past, Elsa Lund played 47 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:41.639 by Ingrid Bergmann, who chooses his out of all the 48 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:43.800 gin joints in all the towns in all the world 49 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.879 to walk into with her husband, Victor Laslow play by 50 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:50.240 Paul Heinried. I don't know if we can actually spoil 51 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.719 this film for anyone, but nothing is off the table. 52 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:55.960 You have been warned. So Bill, can you remember the 53 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.360 very first time you saw Casablanca and what you thought? 54 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:03.080 This is probably the hardest of all the episodes I've 55 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:05.280 done with you to think of what the first time 56 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:09.680 I saw Casablanca. My parents were big Bogart fans. I 57 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.639 think this was my dad's favorite movie. So even as 58 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.240 a little kid, some of the very first videotapes we 59 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.360 had where Humphrey Bogart movies taped off tea like, So 60 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:22.160 Casablanca was something that I saw scenes of as far 61 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:24.759 back as I can remember seeing any movies. The first 62 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:27.600 time I can remember watching it as a movie start 63 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.439 to finish where I was conscious of it. I think 64 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.680 I was already by that point familiar with the cast 65 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.560 from crime and horror movies that I liked as a 66 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:38.040 kid because Peter Lorie. I knew from the Mister Moto movies, 67 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:40.480 Claude Rains, I knew from The Invisible Man and The Wolfman, 68 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:42.879 Conrad Vite. I think I even saw The Cabinet Doctor 69 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:44.920 Kyle Gary, and I had seen the Maltese Falcons, so 70 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:47.439 I knew Sidney Green Street and Hungry Bogart. For me, 71 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.040 it was interesting just to see it as someone over 72 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.920 interested in like exotic adventure kind of stories, like the 73 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.959 kind of Casa Blank and normal tells. I think I 74 00:04:57.079 --> 00:04:59.399 was interested in it as like a genre film because 75 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:02.360 of all the face I knew from crime and horror movies. 76 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.519 It's one that I think I liked it the first 77 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:06.639 time I saw it watching as a proper movie, but 78 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.560 I got interested in going down the rabbit hole of 79 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:11.639 old Hollywood. Casablanca was the film that really summed up 80 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:13.759 This is not a unique thing to observe, but like 81 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.079 everything I liked about old Hollywood, it looks seemed to 82 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:20.040 have every piece of it, from the sarcastically funny, brave, 83 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.199 imperfect guys with their friendships, from a Howard Hawkes kind 84 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:27.879 of move, the romantic melodrama with the atmosphere of the cinematography, 85 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.199 like everything that I like in old Hollywood. It seems 86 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.120 to capture all of it. It was intimidating to agree 87 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:34.639 to do this, but I think, you know, I thought 88 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:36.959 about my dad, you know, when you put out the 89 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.439 list of titles, like I should talk to Mike about Casablanca. 90 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:42.439 So my first viewing like probably like thirteen years old 91 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.519 that I can remember for sure. Yeah, no shock, I liked. 92 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:45.839 It a lot. 93 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:47.959 And Frederica, how about yourself? 94 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.519 I was thirteen about the same age. I actually remember this. 95 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:55.879 I saw it on VHS, the fiftieth anniversary edition, the 96 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:57.839 white one with both of them on the cover, not 97 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:02.399 the theatrical poster, on a CRT television, placed on top 98 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:05.639 of my clothes Jessert and I loved it. It's just 99 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:09.160 one of those films that's classic Hollywood. It was made 100 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.199 even better when a couple of years after that, I 101 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:13.680 got to see it in an old movie palace with 102 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:19.319 a humongous crowd and at home. The script reads one 103 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.439 way where you're just by yourself in solitude and you 104 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:24.800 fall in love with Claude Rains and Humphrey Bogart and 105 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:29.279 Ingrid Bergmann, but in a movie palace full of people. 106 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.879 You can feel the beats and how fast and precise 107 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:38.480 the writing is. It's almost musical in its tenor. And 108 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:42.079 then having said all of that about the cultural background 109 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:44.439 and learning about all the references and seeing it in 110 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:47.399 pop culture and media, I think the actual reason I 111 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:50.319 went to watch it was I used to see the 112 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:54.560 BBC series As Time Goes By on pds, the one 113 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.920 with Judy Dench and Jeffrey Palmer, and I always wanted 114 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.519 to know where the song was from, looked it up 115 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:02.800 and found the VHS and I watched it that way. 116 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:06.120 I was late to this movie. I think I told 117 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:09.040 the story when we did the episode on the multice Falcon. 118 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:11.959 That was probably the first time I actually sat down 119 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.720 and watched the Humphrey Bogart film when I was probably 120 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:19.879 about twenty twenty one, and it's funny. I was just 121 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:24.160 looking up the date of the Aljan Hermit's book Round 122 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.439 Up the Usual Suspects and Making of Casablanca Bogart Bergmann 123 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.120 in World War Two that was given to me as 124 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:34.439 a birthday gift, probably the year came out, because it 125 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:37.079 came out December first, nineteen ninety three, or sorry, the 126 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:39.439 year after because my birthday is in April, so it 127 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:44.240 was probably either a birthday or graduation present, And ironically 128 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.560 I hadn't seen the movie at that point. I first 129 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:52.439 saw this probably in ideal conditions. They were doing a 130 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:56.079 screening series down at the beautifully restored Fox Theater here 131 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:59.519 in Detroit, and I went to go see that there. 132 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:04.480 I saw that one, I saw Spartacus. I can't remember 133 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:07.720 what else played their Citizen Pain. I believe you can 134 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:09.879 never go wrong with going to see Citizen Pain for 135 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:12.879 the fiftieth sixtieth time. But this was the first time 136 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:16.199 seeing Casablanc was seeing it at a movie palace and 137 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.040 just absolutely fell in love with it. And it really 138 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.720 kind of your guys's points, like it locked in a 139 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.560 lot of references that I was very familiar with but 140 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:29.199 didn't know that I was familiar with. And you know, now, 141 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.720 it's like my wife and I were debating about this 142 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:35.799 as far as is Casablanca still a very well known movie. 143 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:40.240 And I don't know if any of my coworkers who 144 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:44.559 are under forty, if they've ever seen this movie, if 145 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:48.039 they would get the references. They just don't know. But 146 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:51.159 it's funny that the references are still out there in force. 147 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.720 Like just thinking of every time you start up a 148 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:58.360 Warner Brothers movie on able streaming, whatever it's got the 149 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.080 strains of as time goes by that comes with it. 150 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:04.360 But I don't know how many people realize what that's 151 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:07.840 from these days. But it was very difficult for me 152 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.320 making this request and saying, what the hell am I 153 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:14.720 going to say about this movie that hasn't been said before. 154 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:16.840 I think we had the same thing when we talked 155 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:19.960 about Blade Runner quite a few years ago, where it's 156 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:22.480 is there anything new we can bring to the table, 157 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:27.840 because it's just such a well worn documented film and 158 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:29.919 I don't know how many new readings there can be 159 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.080 of it in twenty twenty five. 160 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:35.320 When you talk about younger people maybe not knowing this one, 161 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.519 I was thinking about this and how this is one 162 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:42.360 of the first cult movies in America, the cult following 163 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.120 at the Bridle Theater in nineteen fifty three in Cambridge. 164 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:47.720 That's an art house theater, and it's like something that's 165 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:51.000 being shown in like some of the first retrospectives of 166 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:53.919 Bogart movies. It's like he's still alive, I think when 167 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:57.080 they start doing this, but by the sixties it becomes 168 00:09:57.399 --> 00:09:59.200 a cult movie, like the kind that we might think 169 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.200 up in the Cities with Harold and Maud and Altopa 170 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.960 and Pinklamingo's like Bogart movies were that kind of thing 171 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.320 on college campuses in the sixties, and I think that 172 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:08.399 a lot of people that were part of that cul 173 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:12.720 became film critics, and so we grew up with like 174 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:16.159 people like Roger Ebert cheerleaders for this movie. So if 175 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.840 you got into movies as a gen xer or even millennial, 176 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:22.159 you probably were reading critics that have referenced this all 177 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.919 the time, even if you didn't see it. You know 178 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:28.200 the dialogue, you know the quotes and the pop cultural references, 179 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.639 and maybe you grew up with Warner Brothers cartoons that 180 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:33.039 were like making reference to it, or the Simpsons making 181 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:36.080 reference to it. I think that, yeah, the further out 182 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:38.279 we get from it, the more that's going to receive, 183 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:40.600 you know. And so yeah, you could be right that 184 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:43.320 there's a whole generation that wouldn't know this film, even 185 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.639 though I think there's several generations that know it really well. 186 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:48.840 I think among old Hollywood, I think it's actually had 187 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:52.000 better luck than Gone with the Wind or some other 188 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.519 films that were like inescapable, because there's elements of those 189 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:57.840 films that maybe have an aged quite as well, like 190 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:02.240 in terms of cultural sensitivity and blanket considering where it's 191 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:04.639 set and the time it's made. It's like remarkable, Like 192 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.200 it's a miracle, Like how unoffensive it is by twenty 193 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:10.080 twenty five standards, it's also. 194 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.799 A miracle, or maybe not a miracle. Maybe sad that 195 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:16.080 so many of the issues that it brought up in 196 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:19.879 nineteen forty two are still issues today, talking about refugees 197 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.600 and the refugee problem quote unquote, and just the way 198 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:29.200 that we have occupied territories. Just thinking about Resident Volinski 199 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:32.279 coming to the White House recently and just what a 200 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.159 shit show that was. I was like, oh, is this 201 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:36.879 If we had visited VC France, would we have gotten 202 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:39.000 the same reception back in nineteen forty two. 203 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:43.559 Probably The crazy thing about that was seeing it in 204 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.279 the theater at a revival screening recently, maybe a couple 205 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.840 of weeks ago. I was in a tiny, little theater 206 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.840 with only maybe five other people, and there were all men, 207 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:55.240 which was strange to say the least. And then afterwards 208 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:56.960 one of them told me that he went to school 209 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:00.840 with Julius Epstein's granddaughter or something like that. It was 210 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.919 just strange days. But I forgot how many times they 211 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:06.159 bring up in the movie and they say the word 212 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:10.279 concentration camp. In nineteen forty two, the term concentration camp 213 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:14.559 meant something different from Ashchwitz Bercanal. What happened afterwards. And 214 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.360 it's funny too, because the Epstein's ended up leaving this 215 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.440 to work on why we fight with Frank Capra talking 216 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.720 all about that, but so little has changed about American 217 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.240 politics and the bugbear of people coming to our shores. 218 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.039 But I think the reason that it aged so well 219 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:36.279 where something like Gone with the Wind perhaps didn't in 220 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:38.919 many respects, not even just the racial component, was the 221 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:42.919 fact that the people that played foreigners in the film 222 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:47.919 were actually foreigners. It's just something that's so rare in Hollywood. 223 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.080 You watch so many films from Britain and the United States, 224 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.200 and they have vast swaths of great talent from these countries, 225 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.840 but they prefer to have their stock character actors play 226 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:02.480 them and put a little brown makeup over their face 227 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:06.240 and doesn't age well. But Casablanca has it in spades. 228 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.559 This is probably the first time that I've been able 229 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.120 to have an episode with two other co hosts where 230 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:15.759 we've all been able to see the movie recently in 231 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.799 a theater, which does not happen very often unless we're 232 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.440 talking about Captain America, Brave New World or something. But 233 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:25.120 to have this movie from forty two still play revival 234 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:30.240 houses almost like clockwork, that it is a February fourteen 235 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.759 Valentine's Day tradition for a lot of revival houses to 236 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:38.879 show Casablanca right around that time, and this was no exception. 237 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:43.159 There were actually multiple screenings happening in the Detroit area. 238 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.080 There was, I want to say, either Imagine or one 239 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.399 of those larger theater chains. We're doing revival screenings throughout 240 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:54.080 the week. And then the Redford Theater here in Detroit 241 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.519 area added on their big screen, and that was just 242 00:13:57.759 --> 00:13:59.919 a joy to be able to see with so many 243 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:04.960 me just pure film fans in such a lavish setting, 244 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.120 and to hear those lines again and to hear the 245 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:12.559 audience just murmuring them as well. And this movie, like 246 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.799 you already mentioned, it's so quotable, and there's so many 247 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:20.200 good lines, and just everyone is saying their favorite ones, 248 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.320 especially as you get to the end of the film, 249 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:26.720 and just those that speech from Humphrey Bogart. There are 250 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:29.480 so many lines in there that you've just heard so 251 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.320 many times. It's wonderful. 252 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.159 One of my most influential books on me is Danny 253 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.000 Perry's Cult Movies, and so that was probably the first 254 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:40.519 book I read about like that film being a genuine 255 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.960 cult movie, as far as like people wearing costumes, quoting dialogue, 256 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:47.600 back popping Champagne in the theater, the interactivity of it, 257 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:50.120 which I think by the time I got to Casa Blank, 258 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.120 it was one of the classic American films, if not 259 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.559 the classic Hollywood film, Like how was this in the 260 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:55.879 same conversation as a racer? 261 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:56.159 Heead? 262 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.000 But you know, at that time it was actually something 263 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.519 that could be relied on as an old movie that 264 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.720 drew a large, passionate, younger audience that was not even 265 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:06.519 the audience that saw it in nineteen forty two or 266 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:11.639 forty three. Was it Vietnam generation kids, boomers. It's interesting 267 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:14.639 that way. I think trying to get my head around 268 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:16.759 just the cult side of it was part of the 269 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:18.679 fun of prepping for this coming. I was in the 270 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.200 same boat as you, was, like what do we say 271 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.639 about this? The amount of material written on. Casablanca is 272 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:27.679 so enormous that it's a little intimidated. But I thought 273 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:31.360 we would just enter three movie buffs and just talk 274 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:32.759 about our feelings with it. 275 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:35.399 I believe in us, I know we can't. 276 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:38.720 I think I had seen When Harry Met Sally before 277 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.039 I saw Casablanca. So there's the whole thing in there 278 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.440 where you see them watching the film when they're younger 279 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:47.399 and then watching it again when they're older, and the 280 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.879 different reactions that they had to that. And Efron she 281 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.440 was born in forty one, so she is coming to 282 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:56.320 this as a middle aged person. As far as the 283 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.399 script and having that as part of When Harry Met Sally, 284 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.679 it also really does speak to that whole thing as 285 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:06.360 far as how your attitudes change or can change around 286 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:09.759 movies as you watch them over the years. And this 287 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:12.519 whole thing of Sally talking about how she would definitely 288 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:14.879 go off with Victor Las though when she's younger and 289 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.039 then later on I would never see that. Of course, 290 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.679 I'm going to go with Humphrey bolk Art. You change 291 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:22.440 the movie, stay the same, but your attitude is definitely 292 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:24.919 mature over your lifetime. 293 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:28.159 Absolutely, I always take a little bit of umbriage with 294 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.519 the Moniker cult movies, because cult is almost like an 295 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:33.600 epithet that you give to something that is not to 296 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:37.559 the level of religion. And in my house, basically art 297 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.279 was our religion. So when you talk about like the 298 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:43.879 Bradle Theater, after Bogart died, like a couple months afterward, 299 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:47.519 they did the retrospective and then every week they would 300 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.600 show Casablanca, or even more importantly, they would show it 301 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:54.200 during the Finals week, and this is right across Harvard Square, 302 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.679 and so people who are cramming for the finals, are 303 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.840 taking tests, they would go to it almost as a 304 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:05.519 lease of tension, of pressure, and that religiosity of going 305 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:08.119 to the cinema every week of it being just something 306 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.119 that you do, you go almost to pray. And so 307 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.720 it's almost like the litany of Casablanca, where you have 308 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.799 all of those phrases, here's looking at you, kid, pill 309 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.039 of beans, all that kind of stuff. And so when 310 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:23.279 it happens, and it's such a short movie too, that 311 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:26.519 you can just recite it all within your heart while 312 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.640 you watch it with a bevy of other people, and 313 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.039 it becomes basically a religion and you carry it with 314 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.000 you wherever you go. 315 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.799 Yeah, I was thinking also just about how this kind 316 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:42.440 of establishes beyond the Maltese falcon. It softens the Bogart 317 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.960 persona that makes it the most ingratiating version of that tough. 318 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.240 Guy part of his career. 319 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:50.319 As far as I mean, I think that Bogart is 320 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:53.640 a big part of why Casablanca had that second life. 321 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.559 Is like the attraction to his persona I think was 322 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.480 something that really was kind of well served by this film. 323 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.319 But I think even in the sixties, I mean, you 324 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.240 have things like The Guard's Breathless that are also referencing 325 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.559 Boguard and all the things that come about in the 326 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.599 seventies that we might talk about play it against Sam 327 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.880 or the man with Boguard's it's the mystique of that actor, 328 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.599 you know, Die Mung. But I think maybe that just 329 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.440 that kind of sarcastic, slightly anti hero ish persona I 330 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.160 think sets him apart from John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart 331 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:24.359 some of the other people that might have even played 332 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:27.319 darker characters than you know, what they're known for. But 333 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.039 I think they didn't have the same I don't know, 334 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.440 like the attitude or street crib that Bogart seemed to 335 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:36.039 carry through multiple generations. And it's interesting because it's maybe 336 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.920 one of the saddest characters in some that you really get, 337 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.240 like he's almost never in danger, but it's a film 338 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.519 that really shows him at his most defeated. If it 339 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:48.400 softens the play and like the alcoholism and the harsher 340 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.839 side of it's a more palatable version of that character, 341 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.599 but it's still for that to be like just the 342 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.640 embodiment of like confident macho lagger. There's a lot of 343 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.599 chinks in the art for that character throughout the running time. 344 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:02.240 I think he's such a. 345 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.720 Dynamic character that he starts off with this whole I 346 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:07.240 stick my neck up for no one. I don't let 347 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.000 people drink with me, nobody joins me at my table, 348 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.079 I don't share drink with anybody in this bar, and 349 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.880 just the way that he eventually starts to soften, and 350 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:19.880 then we see why he was so hard. We see 351 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:22.839 that flashback. We get to see him as this joyous character, 352 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.480 loving life, let's get married and all this to ilsa 353 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.440 and then we come back to him come crashing back 354 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.839 down with those final strains of as time goes by, 355 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:35.079 as we see him just drinking there in the dark 356 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:39.200 with Seam playing the piano, and we never really get 357 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:43.680 his backstory. We get versions of it. We get Renault, 358 00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:47.200 the claud Raine's character, saying, oh, I thought it might 359 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:50.240 be something like this, or even Strasser. He gives a 360 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.279 little we have a dossier on you, and he starts 361 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.079 to read some things, but you don't get a ton 362 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.839 You get a few facts about him, that he fought 363 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:02.559 in the Spanish Revolution, and you get to find out 364 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.440 that he fought on the right side, which is funny 365 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.880 because in the Big Sleep, I think they talk about 366 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.720 how he and Sean are not sewn archer. I can't 367 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:12.839 remember the character's name, but that they were. 368 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.720 He used to swap shots between drinks and drinks between shots, 369 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:17.480 whichever you like. 370 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.039 Mary respeks to you, sir, few men ever swapped more 371 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.480 than one shot with Sean Reagan. 372 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.079 And you get a few other things about Rick, but 373 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.640 you don't really get how he came to Casablanca, other 374 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.599 than for the waters, which is probably my favorite line 375 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:33.400 of the film. 376 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:35.799 What in Heaven's name brought you to Casablanca? 377 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:36.880 My health? 378 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:38.720 I came to Casablanca for the waters. 379 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:42.000 The waters? What waters? We're in the desert? 380 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:44.200 I was misinformed. 381 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.799 Absolutely, I love that. That was probably one of the 382 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.920 biggest laughs in my theater, my small theater this time 383 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.039 around you and the five other guys O the size 384 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.839 of course shocked, shocked to find there's gambling here. That 385 00:20:57.880 --> 00:20:59.480 one's the other big one that probably has to be 386 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:03.400 my favorite. So you were talking about how soft Bogart 387 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.000 is in this, and it's funny because he has a 388 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.599 little pithy remark where he said, I was at Warner's 389 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:12.759 under a contract. It was like the seventh year of 390 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:15.839 my contract. For six years, I've been playing the same character, 391 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.759 and every single one of these movies of this just heavy, 392 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:23.559 vaguely ethnic with some kind of pithy nickname, and he 393 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.160 would just be mean and usually get shot by the 394 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.119 end of the movie. But then the decided Warner Is 395 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:31.559 the PR department said, Okay, we need to boost him 396 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:34.599 to major stardom, so we need to focus our energy 397 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.279 on making him a romantic lead, to which he responded, 398 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:39.799 I did the exact same thing in Casablanca. The only 399 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.400 difference was it was Ingrid Bergmann looking at me, so 400 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.640 everybody thought I was this great romantic lead because she's 401 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.039 so beautiful, so luminous, and the way they photograph her 402 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.400 and this is just spectacular. 403 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.240 Oh yeah, she looks amazing in this. And she also 404 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.880 is such a great character that she knows she lies 405 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.640 to Rick, or let's say, she hides the truth as 406 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.680 far as what her past is, and this whole thing 407 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.519 that they have where it's like no questions and that 408 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.400 doesn't even it's not even like upfront, but you get 409 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:15.319 this whole thing where he starts to ask her more 410 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.200 things and he's, oh, yeah, I remember, no questions, and yeah. 411 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:22.920 They have this relationship where she cannot reveal her past, 412 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:25.119 really doesn't want to reveal her past, doesn't want to 413 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:28.480 live through that hurt again. And then once she finds 414 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.960 out what is actually happening with her husband, with who 415 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:35.480 she thought was dead, that she then has this huge struggle. 416 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:38.519 I almost wish we could see this from else's point 417 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:41.519 of view, the struggle that she has to leave Rick 418 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.839 and to leave him standing on that platform with the 419 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.480 world the elements crying onto that letter, like doing to 420 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.000 that letter what he couldn't do, but erasing it with 421 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.119 the tears of the world. I just oh, it's so great. 422 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.400 And that she comes back the way she tries to 423 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.480 play against Rick, the way that she tries to seduce 424 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.880 Rick at one point, and just that whole back and 425 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:07.680 forth between them. And then you've got Laslo there, who 426 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:09.839 thinks he knows what's going on, but he's probably the 427 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:11.599 most clueless character in this movie. 428 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:15.519 All the mystery of that character is also partly, i think, 429 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.119 because they couldn't tell the story as it is in 430 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:22.279 the production code reasons, and so by carving away the backstory, 431 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.279 they leave so much more that you can fill in 432 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:26.079 with your imagination as far me you know, because in 433 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.240 the play, he's a lawyer that's got these ideals. He's 434 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:31.400 got a family, like he's got a wife, and it's 435 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.559 a different character than all we know about him is 436 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:38.839 just that he had these politically righteous kind of moments 437 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:40.960 in his past, but that he's at a point that 438 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.599 he's neutral and defeated because of this relationship. It just 439 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.519 as a film about stepping out of that neutrality and 440 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.000 taking as a very simple political It's rooted in a 441 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.079 specific war, specific time, but part of the way is 442 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.240 carried food like multiple generations, I think, is because could 443 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.039 be applied to so many situations. It is general, and 444 00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:06.799 it also it's funny it's a funny movie, and it's 445 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.640 a great romantic film. So it is a political film, 446 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.799 but all the other elements are working in such harmony 447 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:14.880 with it that it doesn't feel didactic in any way, 448 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:16.799 even though, which because I think when I look at 449 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.079 some of the other films that kind of come in 450 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:20.559 the wake of it, they tend to foreground the politics first. 451 00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:22.960 And then it's also nice that they have romance and humor, 452 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.359 but their political films first. Where's Casablanca. I think Michael 453 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.599 Curtiz really sought as a romance, It just happens to 454 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.400 be political, whereas I think the other ones, maybe because 455 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.839 we're further into the war or whatever reason, it's just 456 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.680 a different sensibility and they become much more good propaganda films, 457 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:38.640 but propaganda films. 458 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:43.960 Federico, you mentioned the immigrant cast, and I totally agree 459 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:46.799 with you that that really makes a huge difference to 460 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:50.599 see all these very authentic looking people, even when they're 461 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.759 looking up at the plane that's coming by that ultimately 462 00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:56.440 is carrying major Strasser, but they're looking up at this 463 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:58.799 plane like that could be us. Someday we could be 464 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.279 on that plane. We could be go to Lisbon and 465 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.759 then to the United States, and then all of the voices, 466 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.400 the language that you hear inside of the actual cafe, 467 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:12.240 and then some of those amazing character actors. This whole 468 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:16.200 movie is populated with just some of the best faces, 469 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:18.599 some that we've called out before on the show. I 470 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.799 think at least two of the people that work at 471 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:25.480 the bar, between the Professor and Sasha, were both in 472 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:29.279 Ball of Fire, which is just populated with great character 473 00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:32.440 actor faces. Of course, Sidney green Street and Peter Lorie 474 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.279 had just started with Humphrey Bogarth the year before in 475 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.480 Malti's Falcon, and then those three would continue on to 476 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:42.480 work in quite a few things, and even had Mary 477 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:46.440 Astor know Peter Lourie unfortunately in Across the Pacific, so 478 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.039 a different type of war film that we had a 479 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:51.960 few years after that, I believe. But yeah, it was 480 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.279 just those those amazing faces, those amazing accents that they have, 481 00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.839 and then the level of humor, just the little things 482 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.839 like Carl bringing the extra glass with him because he 483 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:05.839 thinks that somebody's gonna ask him to have a drink, 484 00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:08.519 as well as the better brandy because he wants to 485 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:12.359 drink that, or the whole thing was Sasha where he's 486 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.240 being sent to take yvon Holm and then it's like 487 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.559 and then come straight back. It's like, ah, all right, 488 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.359 I will like you can tell that he's been bad 489 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.680 in the past, and Rick knows that enough to admonish 490 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.240 him before he even screws up anything. 491 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:27.279 Yeah. 492 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:30.599 The Kinsky, the bartender who plays Sasha the Russian of 493 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.960 the film. His big major Hollywood debut was Trouble in 494 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.759 Paradise by Lubitsch. And the most amazing thing I learned 495 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:44.839 doing research for this was that Paul henryed. They originally 496 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:49.000 wanted Philip Dorn, who was under contract at Warner's, but 497 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.119 he was already in Random Harvest so they couldn't pull 498 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.680 him from that production. So they decided, okay, we'll get 499 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:59.599 a real like European foreigner, probably Eastern or Central European. 500 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:03.000 But if Henry turned it down, which they knew he 501 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:05.240 was going to, because the script they sent him was 502 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:07.680 just terrible before they bumped him up and gave him 503 00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.480 third starting credit, We're going to ask, of all people, 504 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:14.759 Herbert Marshall, and we talk about great supporting casts. And 505 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.200 this has basically almost everybody from the Warner Brothers like 506 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.240 Stock Company except for Alan Hale Senior, which would have 507 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.039 been just incredible to have. But the idea of Herbert 508 00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:29.079 Marshall as the Victor Laslow character, I think would have 509 00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:32.440 added a totally different dimension to this. And there's a 510 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.319 lot of criticism that comes at Henry for his portrayal 511 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:39.640 in it, no more than of course Roger Ebert, who 512 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:43.160 had a lot of vitriol for what he perceived to 513 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:46.519 be his lackluster acting throughout the film. 514 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:49.400 If it had been Herbert Marshall, I might have gone 515 00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.799 away with Victor Laslow as well. And that's even worried 516 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.880 about Vitrick Blaine. But because Marshall was so great, unless 517 00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:58.160 he was wearing a goateee, because we can't have him 518 00:27:58.160 --> 00:27:59.160 with facial hair. 519 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:02.200 I certainly it wouldn't wear a beer either. 520 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.759 What well, I wouldn't or you wouldn't. 521 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.039 I noted any of my business, but if I didn't 522 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:11.920 have anything to hide, I certainly wouldn't appeared. 523 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.599 When you talk about the real life emigres in the 524 00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:18.720 cast and the famous La Marseille is singing scene, and 525 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.960 the fact that so many people in that scene, this 526 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.960 is part of the legend of it, were real life 527 00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:28.079 exopats fleeing Nazi persecution gives it almost a documentary quality 528 00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.480 to it because those are real people who's real tears. 529 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.279 That's capturing something more than just movie characters, like that's 530 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.079 crossing the line into something else. And I was thinking 531 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:39.160 about the international component of it, because part of what 532 00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.960 I love about Casablanca is how new York it feels 533 00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.200 for a film that's said in Africa, it's a film 534 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.559 that reminds me of New York more than anything else 535 00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:49.039 because of the references to New York. I know that 536 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:51.599 when it opened in New York and Bogart has the 537 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.240 line about there's certain parts of New York City that 538 00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:56.799 I wouldn't recommend you try to invade that would generate 539 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.160 cheers from the audience when that opened in nineteen forty two. 540 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:04.119 And I just think about how Scarface inspired Pepula Moco. 541 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:09.359 Pepula Moco becomes remade as Algiers. Algiers becomes definitely something 542 00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:11.880 they have in mind when did they acquire everybody comes 543 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:16.279 to rix. Casablanca then inspires people like Jean de Godard, 544 00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:18.400 who look at these casts and all these great faces 545 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.799 and all those new wave guys are looking at Claude 546 00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:23.720 Rains and Peter Lori and Sydney green Street, like we 547 00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:25.720 needed faces like this in our movies, Like in that 548 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.839 international conversation that these films were having. I find so 549 00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.000 interesting even though it's yes as American's any film I 550 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.279 can think of, but it has this international kind of 551 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.359 mixture in the cast and the production, like behind the 552 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:40.440 scenes Michael Curtiz, But it's an interesting dialogue. I don't know, 553 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.519 you really have the same thing happening with Hollywood hits 554 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.400 today that feel that influenced by world cinema and give 555 00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:48.359 back in the same way. 556 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.680 I completely agree, And yeah, to hear how this movie 557 00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:57.519 traveled around the world and when it played and how 558 00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:00.160 it played, and just said it was of course in 559 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.640 Germany for many years, and then when it did finally play, 560 00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.920 it was not the rape version of it. Just that 561 00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:07.960 it took forever for people to actually be able to 562 00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.480 see this movie in totality. And it's remarkable to me 563 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.799 that it even plays in totality in the US, just 564 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:19.839 because the way that it skirts some of these rules 565 00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:23.920 from the censors, just that the Claude Raine's character is 566 00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:28.119 freaking incredible. Some of those lines like oh there's another 567 00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:33.160 visa problem, oh, show her in. There's no subterfuge right 568 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.160 there at all. And it's like the only question I 569 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:39.799 have as far as like, did he sleep with the 570 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.240 Bulgarian girl or did he not sleep with her? I'm 571 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.039 not exactly sure. I know that she talks about how 572 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.200 her husband's still just a boy and that she needs 573 00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:53.079 to protect him, and I'm like, I think she might 574 00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:55.359 have ended up sleeping with her in now in order 575 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.240 to try to get these visas. I don't know what 576 00:30:57.279 --> 00:30:58.000 you guys think. 577 00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:02.000 I always interpreted it as that the money was preventing 578 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:06.519 that from happening. That basically it was implied that she 579 00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:08.839 was going to pay with sex for the visas. But 580 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:12.440 because the game is fixed with the gambling, he's able 581 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:14.359 to come up with the money. And this is why 582 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:17.359 Renault is a little bit miffed at him. 583 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:20.519 You're right, yeah, I'll be coming by with the beautiful blonde. 584 00:31:20.599 --> 00:31:21.759 Make sure she doesn't lend. 585 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:22.119 Yeah. 586 00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.559 That's also softened from the play because in the play, 587 00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:27.359 though that the Bulgarian couple is much more central to 588 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.680 the plot and Renault is a lot more upset about it. 589 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.359 It becomes much more of a plot point than in 590 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.079 this It's a much briefer kind of situation. In a way, 591 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:39.039 it's almost like there's multiple versions of the couple trying 592 00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.839 to get out of town, because you have the Bulgarian 593 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.440 couple and you also have older couples that are just 594 00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:46.880 trying to get their English down. It's like different versions 595 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:50.160 of the same idea, of different stages of life trying 596 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:53.839 to escape that town. The Bulgarian couple is more central 597 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.200 to the play, and it's darker because the Renault character 598 00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:58.920 is trying to get her to drink more. It's a 599 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.400 little bit more aggressive, a little more creepy than what 600 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.880 Claude Rains ultimately plays. 601 00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:07.440 That scene in the casino with the roulette, that's the 602 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.599 moment for me. That's the moment where you get to 603 00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:13.319 see Rick's true colors, that he actually helps out these people. 604 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:17.400 He has no reason to at all other than just 605 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:20.839 because of the heartfelt sentiment that she brings to him. 606 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.039 And I loved the way that that plays out. I 607 00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:27.480 think it is just absolutely wonderful to see that and 608 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.039 that is just two spins of the roulette wheel and 609 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:35.160 he's able to a for this couple's visas to get 610 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:37.799 the hell out of town. I just I think that's 611 00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:40.680 the moment where you realize what a knight in shining 612 00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:42.200 arm or this guy secretly is. 613 00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:47.119 I always cry well, yeah, Kinski comes from behind the 614 00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:50.880 bar and starts he's talking to Carl. Carl like is 615 00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.160 so excited finally that his friend and his basically his 616 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:58.839 boss has grown a heart that he tells Sasha, and 617 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.039 Sasha starts like yelling in Russian and he comes over 618 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.119 and kisses him and he's like, get your paws off me, 619 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:07.559 you crazy Russian. Because it is that moment, and it's 620 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.240 incredible to me too, because I'm pretty sure it's Julius 621 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:14.440 Epstein said he based that whole Roulette thing off of 622 00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:18.119 a story of somebody that he knew who played roulette 623 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.200 in Las Vegas, who worked in La and they said, 624 00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.119 put the number there, and they knew it was rigged. 625 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.880 It was like a mob joint and they say, Okay, 626 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.799 you won today, but you're never coming back here ever again. 627 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.599 And I just wanted to come back to the thing 628 00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:37.519 that you guys talked about, the ethereality of Rick's backstory 629 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.240 of talking about the Epstein's in the way that they wrote, 630 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:43.039 how they're responsible for most of the humor in it. 631 00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:47.319 But they very consciously decided not to go into the backstory. 632 00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:53.200 And like classic Hollywood has that tendency it can be didactic, 633 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.440 overly didactic, but like this movie and just the way 634 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.319 it tells Rick's backstory is just so open and ended. 635 00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:03.839 And I'm sure we'll get into it later with all 636 00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:07.359 of the supplementary material and all of the quasi sequels 637 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:10.280 that people have tried to make, but it's just it's 638 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:13.559 just ruining the mistique of it, all of him as 639 00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:14.039 a character. 640 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:18.800 And you talked about the Marseillas scene with the people crying, 641 00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:21.360 and I'm right there with them every single time. I 642 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:25.719 am a sucker for that scene when the orchestra comes in, 643 00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:27.559 and I love that. Albie Wallace, I think it was 644 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.719 Helbi Wallace was the one that was just like, I 645 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.239 don't care that it's only this many people on screen. 646 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.159 We're going to have a full orchestra. It might have 647 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.880 been Jack Warner himself actually that gave that piece of 648 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:39.119 advice when it came to the editing of the film, 649 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:43.119 just to bring that orchestra in, bring it so loud 650 00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:46.840 and so powerful, and the way that everyone is joining 651 00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:50.119 in there, and especially that shot of Yvonne so Vane's 652 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.159 a very interesting character for me. Where she starts off 653 00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:57.000 the girlfriend of Rick. She's drinking too much, he tells 654 00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.119 us to take her home, and then the next time 655 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:02.199 we see her she's on the arm of a German officer, 656 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.559 and that whole thing where people are saying stuff to 657 00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:09.800 her in her native language. And I love too that 658 00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:12.679 this movie is not subtitled whatsoever. We just have to 659 00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:15.920 pick up everything through context clues unless you happen to 660 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.400 speak you know, French, German, et cetera. And that when 661 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:24.559 she is the one who's standing there singing the Marseillas 662 00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:27.800 and the tears are coming down her eyes, You're just like, Okay, 663 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.039 she's probably not going to be going home with that 664 00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.159 German tonight and making the right decision. And I just 665 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:37.039 love the lady with the guitar and how she's chiming 666 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:40.639 in the whole room, going wild at that moment, and 667 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:43.480 just that unity, and you feel like it's such a 668 00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:46.000 magical thing. And it just even though it's a movie, 669 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:48.119 and even though it was so pre planned and everything, 670 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:51.639 it just feels so organic to the story. And again, 671 00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.159 I also love that whole way that it's put together 672 00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:57.480 through the editing and just that little look of the 673 00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:01.880 orchestra to Bogart and Bogart given that little nod, and 674 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.199 then they're able to start playing along with what Victor 675 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:08.199 Laslow wants them to do, and it just turns into magic. 676 00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.760 Yeah, for a quote unquote war movie. It's the only 677 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:13.360 battle scene, but it's a musical battle scene. That's what 678 00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:16.039 makes it kind of stirring. And yeah, I also will 679 00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:18.159 join the Yeah, I cry in this whole sequence of 680 00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:19.960 the film as well, because it's the scene of him 681 00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:23.039 being generous with the Bulgarian couple followed by the Marseilles 682 00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:25.719 kind of seems so back to back, like these moments 683 00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:29.119 of generosity of spirit, which I think as you get older, 684 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:32.440 it's like not really romantic tragedy or death of characters 685 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.480 who liked it gets you in the heart strength. It's 686 00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:36.920 like those moments of people being decent because you don't 687 00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:38.199 have a lot of reminders of that. 688 00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:40.679 And the other thing about that is you're talking about 689 00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:43.159 it was this scene, then this scene. This movie moves 690 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.719 along so quickly and there are no dead scenes to it. 691 00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.719 There's nothing where I'm just like, oh, yes, this scene, 692 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.239 I guess I'll go use the bathroom. There's none of that. 693 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:56.440 Everything adds to the next thing, and everything has a 694 00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:59.039 purpose in this movie. There's no moments where I'm just like, 695 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.360 oh boy, we could have done without that, And little 696 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:07.159 things like how we see Garti being trapped and arrested 697 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:09.559 and then we just hear about him later on, and 698 00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:12.239 when you hear about him, it just hits you right 699 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.440 in the heart. Even though we didn't see the guy die, 700 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:16.719 I didn't need to see the guy there. There are 701 00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.719 a lot of things that happen off screen where I well, 702 00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:23.159 we don't get to be privy to that. But that's okay. 703 00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:25.280 Most of the time I'm complaining about the whole show. 704 00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:27.000 Don't tell things like, oh, you should have shown no 705 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.280 Guarty being killed. No, no, it was absolutely perfect the 706 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.719 way that we just get that little piece of information 707 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.079 and that wonderful line from again Claude rains I'm trying 708 00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:39.519 to decide if he was killed trying to escape or 709 00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:42.639 if he died by suicide. I'm like, oh man, it's 710 00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:43.599 just so. 711 00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:47.679 Callous every time that happens. Though, the problem is I'm 712 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:49.000 the only one laughing in the theme. 713 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:52.559 I laugh as well because mayn Claude Rains is fucking 714 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:54.639 phenomenal in this movie. 715 00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:57.760 No Claude Rains like for me, there's two like you've 716 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.559 got Ingrid Bergman. Without her, this fear would not work 717 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:03.920 or it wouldn't reach the heights that it was because 718 00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:07.320 I think, Bill, you brought up Peppolelimoco and Algiers and 719 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:11.360 the connection is they wanted heavy lamar. She's got that luminosity. 720 00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:15.639 She's absolutely gorgeous, but she doesn't have the earthiness that 721 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.159 Ingrid Bergmann has. And Bergmann like, years and years afterwards, 722 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.280 she was actually watching herself on screen and she said, 723 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.880 I look like a milkmaid. I just look. I'm not 724 00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:28.800 that perfect type. And that's the beauty of it is 725 00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:31.800 there are so many scenes in rewatching it where somebody 726 00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.519 else is talking, but it's just Bergmann on screen and 727 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.000 they have that incredible like what is it like twenty 728 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.280 three twenty four second long take of her just listening 729 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:45.679 to a song like that just doesn't happen anymore where 730 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:49.400 you have that much time. But the other twin gun 731 00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:53.000 is just Rains, Like Rains is the lynchpin in terms 732 00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:56.440 of the comedy and how fast everything is because he 733 00:38:56.679 --> 00:39:01.079 was a machine and he worked with Kurtiz so much. 734 00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.559 They made eleven films together out of like fifty six 735 00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:08.000 that he made overall, like some like basically a fifth 736 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.440 of everything that he made. And he was the one 737 00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:13.079 that always knew his lines, and they would play tricks 738 00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:16.320 with him all the time. He would be horribly, horribly 739 00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:19.480 anxious about not knowing his lines. So Peter Laurie, the 740 00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:23.400 ultimate prankster, decided one day get everybody to prepare for 741 00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:26.360 a scene. And then of course they started the scene 742 00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:28.400 and he looks over at Laurie and he's like, oh, 743 00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:31.440 something wrong, Peter, I don't know all these lines. And 744 00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:33.159 they just crack up laughing. 745 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:37.880 Oh God, Laurie. You guys know, and anybody that listens 746 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.239 to the show knows. I cannot say enough nice things 747 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:43.320 about Laurie. And he's in here for just two scenes 748 00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.840 and just steals the show the way that he moves 749 00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:51.840 his face. He plays his instrument so well, and you 750 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.400 just get to see those little and I always talk 751 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:57.079 about that when he raises his eyebrows and his whole 752 00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.840 forehead will move, and just those little things where he's 753 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:03.280 just you despise me, don't truck. I just love that 754 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:05.519 whole thing that he's doing there. 755 00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:08.960 If I ever thought about you, I would the. 756 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:12.599 Way that he is trying to get Rick's approval and 757 00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:14.679 just this whole like, oh have you heard about these 758 00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.639 German couriers? And when they find out or when Rick 759 00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:20.840 finds out that it was probably Garty who might have 760 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:24.320 killed these guys, is like, oh, I underestimated you, like 761 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:26.079 you've just gone up in my book. And I think 762 00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:29.199 Hugardi really gets off on that. I think he's very 763 00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:31.840 much wants to not be despised by Rick. 764 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:35.519 Yeah, I could never tell with that line if he was. 765 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.559 When he says that he's impressed by him. Is he 766 00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:42.559 happy that he's killed Nazis or is he judging him 767 00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.400 for being that ruthless and trying to get something to 768 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:48.440 sell that he's murdering people for it, Like, it's unclear 769 00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:50.159 to me which I like that. I could read it 770 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:52.480 either way. But I think that in the play again, 771 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.679 it's like it has that line tell Rick that even 772 00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:56.880 a pimp can die like a man and commit suicide, 773 00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.800 like that character's ennobled in the play in a way 774 00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:03.559 that Peter Laurie just plays it as desperate and sinister, 775 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:06.159 just because that's what he's that's his gift. But I 776 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:08.639 think that as a kid, he was the star of 777 00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:10.639 the movie for me because he was like I knew 778 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.119 him from cartoons and things like, and he just seemed 779 00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:16.079 like so exaggerated in his that Rick Rick hide me 780 00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:17.800 like that was the That was the movie to me 781 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:19.719 for when I was a little kid. It's just that scene, 782 00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:21.760 and it's easy to forget that he's only in, like 783 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.320 you're saying, the two scenes, whereas like Paul en Reid 784 00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:26.760 is like is the third billing? But I don't. I 785 00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:28.639 think of Claude Rains, and I think of Peter Laurie. 786 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:31.079 I think I've Sidney Greenster, I think of like Conrad Vit, 787 00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:33.639 like all these great character actors as like the real 788 00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:36.519 stars to me. Over han Reed, I think he's just 789 00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.360 when you talk about like Ebert's criticism of that character, 790 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:42.239 I think it's just maybe just that that character is 791 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:45.639 unrelatably perfect and noble in a way that we don't 792 00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:48.320 see ourselves in him, like he he needs to be that, 793 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:52.199 and it makes it harder to judge Ingrid Bergmann for 794 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.480 going with him versus like Ivia he was as equally 795 00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:56.679 flawed as Rick. But I think that we all see 796 00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:59.960 ourselves in Rick, whereas we don't see ourselves in in Laslow. 797 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:02.559 But he's necessary for the story. But yeah, all the 798 00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:06.000 colorful supporting characters I think are part of the joy 799 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:07.119 of that movie for sure. 800 00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.719 I think it's also very smart the way that they 801 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:13.000 shoot Reins when he's with the Nazis, and that difference 802 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:16.280 between him and kybrant Fit, and just that he's dwarfed 803 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:18.360 by all of the Nazis and you get to see that, 804 00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:21.199 especially when he's sitting at their table, and how they're 805 00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.079 all taller than him, and even when he greets him 806 00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:27.360 at the airport and Wight is to his right and 807 00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:29.880 he's walking there and you just see that major height 808 00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:33.159 difference between them. He's just this little officious guy. I know. 809 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.760 There's one other Nazi the I can't remember the character's name, 810 00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:40.719 but he's Heinrich. Yeah, fatter, shorter, with the mustache. But 811 00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:42.920 he just seems like, I don't know, he reminds me 812 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:45.320 a Toath from the Raiders of the Lost Arc. It's 813 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.639 just like, yeah, that guy doesn't look like much, but 814 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.480 he's probably very, very evil, And probably just the name 815 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.079 Heinrich doesn't help either. 816 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.920 Yeah, there's a little bit of like a blending of 817 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:59.639 names where you associate them the same thing with Strasser, 818 00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:03.280 because Strusser was an actual Nazi that was purged during 819 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:04.639 the Night of the Long Knives. And that's what I 820 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.199 always go back to. And there's a few like political 821 00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.960 articles talking about the background of Casablanca and the ramifications 822 00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:14.039 of it. But yeah, the thing with heights in this movie, 823 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.000 like the dynamic of men and women and men with 824 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:20.559 other men, especially like Claude Rains and Humphrey Bogert. The 825 00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:22.679 famous thing is, of course that Humphrey Bogert had to 826 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.920 wear three inch lifts for this film to deal with 827 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.440 the five foot nine in ingru Bergmann, which five foot 828 00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:32.039 nine doesn't sound that tall, but Humphrey Berger was this diminutive, 829 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:34.519 like I have to admit that he's a kind of 830 00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.559 weird looking guy for the romantic lead or a classically 831 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:39.639 he's now Gary Cooper, is what I'm trying to say. 832 00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:42.639 But that height difference that they play with, well, you 833 00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:46.840 brought up earlier the tears and the rain at the 834 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:50.880 train station with a note, and I read Allen kde 835 00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:54.559 Rhodes biography of Critiz, and like the major thing in 836 00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.960 terms of Casablanca and then I think we'll probably maybe 837 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:01.039 talk about Passage to Marseille afterwards. Was that because of 838 00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:03.960 his lack of understanding of the English language, he really 839 00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:06.400 couldn't deal with writers that well. Like I don't want 840 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.920 to say that he was terrible at the English language, 841 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:11.320 but he just couldn't communicate as well as he could 842 00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:15.360 in Hungarian in his native tongue. So he primarily focused 843 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:19.840 on visuals, and so that's why you get those incredible shots. Famously, 844 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.480 he was the one that came up with the Vshi 845 00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:26.239 water at the end of Having Reins. Curtis is just 846 00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:30.960 this incredible visual storyteller. Where the one shot that really 847 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:33.960 stood out to me this time was when we actually 848 00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:36.719 enter Risk for the first time. We're almost like this 849 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:40.400 ghostly presence outside of the door and then we are 850 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:44.559 invited through this floating camera. And there are so many 851 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:50.199 push ins and dollies in this film, especially layered with crossfades, 852 00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.519 that that's like part of the construction. It's not just 853 00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:56.719 that the script itself is firing on all cylinders and 854 00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:01.000 it's fantastic, it's also the visual linking everything together. 855 00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:05.480 Some of those pushings are just incredible, and some of 856 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.960 them are pretty subtle, and then you get towards where 857 00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:12.000 he's drinking alone, and you get that really nice push 858 00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:14.320 in that's on him. And I want to say that 859 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.000 it's is there a push in when they go to 860 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.880 the flashback that will always have Paris flashback. 861 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.440 With a rise in the music, you know, with the 862 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.760 Steiner music, that's like the big dig in the knife. 863 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.079 Here we go, Oh, we're actually going to get into 864 00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:29.679 the backstory. 865 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.519 That Steiner score is just so great, the way that 866 00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:36.039 he plays with as time goes by, the Marseilles and 867 00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:39.960 then the German national anthem, the Deutsch lenober Ales, and 868 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:42.760 you get those just little snatches of those throughout the 869 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:46.960 whole thing, and like just to use the d as 870 00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:50.159 like something bad is about to happen, or we're setting 871 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:53.079 the mood here that things are not right in Casablanca. 872 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:56.639 I just really thought that he used those different motifs 873 00:45:56.679 --> 00:45:59.000 so well. And then you have the music that isn't 874 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:02.000 related to those three other pieces of music, and those 875 00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:03.199 work wonderfully too. 876 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.239 Before I forget, Heines is the other Naze not Heinrich 877 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:11.079 by the similar name, like Heine's the ketchup, Yeah, like 878 00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:12.480 hands the ketchup and. 879 00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:18.800 If Humphrey Bogart was five six, how tall was Peter 880 00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:21.920 Laurie because he howers over Peter Laurie every single time 881 00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:22.719 they're on stage. 882 00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:26.039 Oh, Peter Laurie is like diminutive. I want to say 883 00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.119 five foot two maybe, but then of course you get 884 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:30.519 into the camera angles. 885 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:34.199 Oh yeah, definitely five foot three, five foot three. 886 00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:34.639 Ah. 887 00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:36.239 I was off by one inch. 888 00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:37.039 Yeah, you're close. 889 00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:39.280 I guess a few inches makes all the difference, That's 890 00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:39.920 what she said. 891 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.320 I was thinking about the music, and of course as 892 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:46.239 time goes by and thinking about like memory, because one 893 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:48.400 thing I was thinking about with this film is just 894 00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:51.360 that it has that built a nostalgia component just from 895 00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:53.199 the outset, with like you must remember this as the 896 00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:56.599 opening line, and that kind of holding on to some 897 00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:58.920 romanticized version of the past, which is something that you 898 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.159 also have in Papularmcnalgae is like that kind of romantic 899 00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:05.239 view of Paris as this thing to escape to, this 900 00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:07.360 thing that you can't get back to. But you know, 901 00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:12.000 just as you get further out from Casablanca itself, it 902 00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:16.559 becomes increasingly like this nostalgia item as far as embodying, 903 00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:20.280 not just romanticizing like the pre invasion period, but romanticizing 904 00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:22.679 the forties and forties movies, and like it becomes this 905 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:26.000 kind of totem of everything that we lost. Culture evolves 906 00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:29.199 and it becomes this perfect version of what we think 907 00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:32.159 the forties was. I was thinking about that, like watching 908 00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:34.280 if we talk about things like Played against Sam where 909 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:37.639 the man with Bogart's face, Like what how this becomes 910 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:41.000 this totem. But yeah, it's built into the original film 911 00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:44.800 itself as far as that melancholy nostalgia element of it, 912 00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:47.800 which is interesting how it becomes kind of part of 913 00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:50.679 the reputation of the film itself, but it's built into 914 00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:51.679 the narrative. 915 00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:55.079 Even before the making of the film. Like Murray Burnett 916 00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:57.880 writing the script, he was nostalgic of a time when 917 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:00.840 he went to I think it was yeah, and he 918 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.000 was in his dorm and he would listen to the 919 00:48:03.079 --> 00:48:05.880 disc in the thirties of as Time Goes By, like 920 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.360 he that's why he put in the play. You know, 921 00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:12.760 this whole entire film is just steeped with nostalgia and 922 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.840 like aching pain and loss and like you talk about 923 00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:20.400 Pepelamocho and Algiers where you know you're stuck in North 924 00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:22.519 Africa and you want to get back to in those 925 00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:26.639 cases France, but in Casablanca he just presumably he wants 926 00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:29.599 to get back to America and he can't escape. The 927 00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:32.079 one that I always go back to specifically with that 928 00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:35.199 is Wages of Fear, where they also have that thing 929 00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:38.079 of being stuck in South America but wanting to get 930 00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:41.400 back to quote unquote civilization. And there's that also, like 931 00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:45.639 that really strange kind of racial aspect to like Pepelamocha, 932 00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:48.400 where he's like basically losing his mind because of all 933 00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:51.440 the noise and the foreignness of it, and he wants 934 00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:54.400 to get back to the familiarity. They don't play with 935 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:57.159 that too much in this I guess he decides to 936 00:48:57.199 --> 00:48:59.199 go out into the hindul In and join the Free 937 00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:02.199 French and fight in Europe. But there is that aching 938 00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:05.079 pain at the heart of it all, and that's classic 939 00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:07.320 Hollywood sell that to everybody. 940 00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:09.559 When they sing too you're talking about the way that 941 00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:12.840 Gone with the Wind plays a little different. Now, there's 942 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:16.840 not a lot of if any racism in this movie. Yeah, 943 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.840 Ingrid Bergmann calls Sam boy at one point, just like 944 00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:23.320 who's the boy on the piano. There's a little questionable there. 945 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:26.639 But you've got all of these Arabic people, all these 946 00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:31.239 I would assume Islamic worshippers here, and you've got people 947 00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:34.320 from all different areas coming in and you see them 948 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:37.320 all in the audience and they're all singing along to 949 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:42.679 Sam and as piano. You've got Asians, Europeans, Americans, people 950 00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:46.800 all different racist countries, colors and creeds all in here, 951 00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:51.280 and nobody is getting into battles about who's right, who's wrong. 952 00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:54.000 You've got Nazis and you've got everybody else. You've got 953 00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:57.000 the Vshi in there as well. At heart that Renault 954 00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:59.719 eventually is going to come around and do the right 955 00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:02.519 thing too. But I like that they have that, and 956 00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:06.480 I love that Sam is such a friend to Rick. 957 00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:10.119 He is probably the best friend that Rick will ever 958 00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.519 have in his entire life. And those things where he's 959 00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:16.760 like trying to protect Rick from Elsa, the way that 960 00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:19.599 he's like, oh no, he went home early, and just 961 00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.119 lying to her through that, and then when he comes 962 00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:24.159 back and sees Rick and he's just like, come on, 963 00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:25.920 let's get out of here, let's go get drunk, let's 964 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:28.559 go fishing. Trying to get him away from this whole situation. 965 00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:32.039 I love Sam and I think he's such a great 966 00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:34.880 character and such an unusual character for a nineteen forty 967 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:39.079 two film. The other line, besides the more unfortunate boy 968 00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:42.599 that references race is I don't sell human beings right, 969 00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.960 which you know. And also he makes the case for 970 00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:48.639 make sure he gets like twenty twenty percent of the 971 00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:52.599 door or whatever, he gets paid like a proper star attraction. 972 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:55.800 When he sells the club to Sydney Green Street. He's 973 00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:58.519 looking out for him to not only be moved over 974 00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:01.000 like an indentured servant. No, he's your star entertainer. You 975 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:02.039 pay him correctly. 976 00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:04.239 When I think about films of the forties, I think 977 00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:06.199 like val Lewton, and there's only a handful of people 978 00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.079 I think of that, like, they seem to be a 979 00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:11.280 little bit more progressive on race than unfortunately a lot 980 00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.639 of what you have to forgive a lot when you 981 00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:14.199 look at old Hollywood, but not this one. 982 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:17.480 That's one of the reasons too, why it's so enduring 983 00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:20.480 is that we're not sitting there cringing at times, so 984 00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:23.239 it's very really I think the boy line just goes by, 985 00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:27.519 and yeah, the selling of people. I think is as 986 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:30.719 appropriate with Sasha and the Professor as it is with Sam. 987 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:33.119 But yeah, I agree that there's more of a pointed 988 00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:36.960 line there. Especially Americans were great at selling people back 989 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.400 in the past, and maybe it'll come back. 990 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:41.920 We don't know, We don't know. I was gonna say, 991 00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:44.960 I don't know. This is a generalization that I'm speaking 992 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:46.719 out of turning saying. But like when I think about 993 00:51:46.760 --> 00:51:48.960 Warner Brothers films of this period, I think that they 994 00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.840 seem to know the common guy in the street, and 995 00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:55.920 like they specialize in like these kind of harder edged, 996 00:51:56.239 --> 00:51:59.400 working class appeal kind of stories. I think that's why 997 00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.679 their gangster films have never really completely gone out of date, 998 00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:04.800 because they have that kind of snappy pattern. I think 999 00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:08.320 about class in Casablanca and how you have that stuffy 1000 00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:11.079 British couple get pickpocketed and you might like to pickpocket 1001 00:52:11.079 --> 00:52:13.119 a little bit more because he's just so braceen. Or 1002 00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:16.159 you have the couple get offended because Rick won't have 1003 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:17.760 a drink with them, but don't you know who he is, 1004 00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:20.119 Like he's you know, the second most important banker, and 1005 00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:23.639 it's like your money is not what makes you cool 1006 00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:26.800 in that place, Like it's a chic nightclub, but it's 1007 00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:30.599 not really favoring the wealthy somehow, which is another kind 1008 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:33.000 of thing that makes it interesting, just because it's it's 1009 00:52:33.079 --> 00:52:37.280 inviting maybe that working class audience to see this kind 1010 00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.000 of like more glamorous picture than Scarface, but you know, 1011 00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:42.039 or you know, something like the Warner Brothers, like Little 1012 00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:43.960 Caesar or something like that, but it is it is 1013 00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.119 still slightly gangster adjacent, you know, as far as like 1014 00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:50.159 the fixed gambling and just like the corruption and like 1015 00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:54.199 the the slippery morals of the characters. Like it's friendly 1016 00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:57.239 to the audience for those films, even though it's about 1017 00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:01.239 something nobler, but it's not forgetting that audience either, which 1018 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:03.679 I think even all the faces that we know from 1019 00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:06.960 crime films. I think that's another reason why it's so great, 1020 00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.079 is because it has that connection to pulpier things. 1021 00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:13.039 Oh yeah, the people of status. The people that he 1022 00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:16.519 breaks his rule for are Victor Laslow and Ilsa, And 1023 00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:18.440 I think that he would have broken the rule for 1024 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:22.320 just Victor Laslough. He knows of Victor Laslow in the 1025 00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:25.679 way that he says the exploits are known everywhere. I 1026 00:53:25.719 --> 00:53:28.039 think he really respects this guy. 1027 00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:30.000 In speaking to the people that I saw the film 1028 00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:33.760 with at this recent time, I tried to explain to 1029 00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:36.840 them that I was learning about the vitriol that the 1030 00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:40.000 Warner brothers had for the Nazis and how different it 1031 00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:43.079 was at that time and how ahead of the ball 1032 00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:46.039 they were in regards to the rest of the studios, 1033 00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:49.480 because in reading about Critiz, I had no idea that 1034 00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.920 in like in nineteen thirty three, right when the Nazis, 1035 00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:55.000 like they were just starting out and they were basically 1036 00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:59.480 a joke, they actually beat the Warner chief in Berlin 1037 00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:03.320 and then they stole his car and beat him in 1038 00:54:03.320 --> 00:54:05.440 the street and left them basically to die. Eight months 1039 00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:09.119 later he died of his injuries, and Warner's basically decided, Okay, yeah, 1040 00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:12.639 we're withdrawing from the German market. And there was also 1041 00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:16.239 this component of Jack Warner being the most devout Jewish 1042 00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:21.519 of the moguls, and there's this anger that is underneath 1043 00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:25.119 casta blank at this righteous anger of something horrible is 1044 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:28.159 happening and we need Americans to take heed. And of 1045 00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:31.360 course this came out after Pearl Harbor. I mean famously, 1046 00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.679 the script came across Stephen Karna of the Reader's Desk 1047 00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:39.639 December eighth, nineteen forty one, the day after Pearl Harbor, 1048 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:42.360 so they knew already that they were in it. But 1049 00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:47.280 that Warner Brothers thing of like the low criminality, the 1050 00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:50.199 scum element, but also there's just the anger, the righteous anger. 1051 00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:53.159 They even funded the Anti Nazi League way toward g 1052 00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:57.400 Robinson held at his house and then Graucho Marx equipped 1053 00:54:57.599 --> 00:55:00.480 that Warner Brothers was the only studio with guts, so 1054 00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:03.400 they didn't have any like financial incentive to cow tells 1055 00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:06.320 of the Nazis and kind of papover what the true 1056 00:55:06.719 --> 00:55:08.719 malice that they had, so they could show them for 1057 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:10.519 the scumbags that they are. 1058 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:13.440 Yeah, I think Wonder Brothers always reminds me of Roger 1059 00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:17.440 Corman in that they're both concerned with entertainment first, but 1060 00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:21.400 they always have that socio political kind of element buried in, 1061 00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:24.599 even in the less overtly political films, like less political 1062 00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:27.320 than Casablanca, but it's always in there, like that social 1063 00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:30.280 commentary is, they don't forget to be entertainments first, but 1064 00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:32.719 they smuggle in these other elements all the time. And 1065 00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:35.239 it's not just this one. But yeah, I mean, they're 1066 00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:38.360 the perfect studio for this story. And the timing is 1067 00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:42.079 golden for every step of Casablanca's when it comes out, 1068 00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:44.760 when it's announced, when it comes back into reissue, like 1069 00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:49.800 Casablanca is in lockstep with important events in world events, 1070 00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:51.639 and it's just a charmed film on a number of 1071 00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:54.000 levels in terms of the timing, which you know is 1072 00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:56.199 part of what makes a film a hit. 1073 00:55:57.159 --> 00:55:57.400 Yeah. 1074 00:55:57.519 --> 00:55:59.280 I've brought this book up before, and I really have 1075 00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:02.400 to recommend it again, the Thomas Storty book, Hollywood and 1076 00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:05.519 Hitler in nineteen thirty three to thirty nine, and just 1077 00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:08.840 the way that you're talking about how there was that 1078 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:11.880 financial incentive and a lot of people didn't want to 1079 00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:16.280 have their movies withdrawn from Germany because Germany was such 1080 00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:20.679 a huge market and pretty soon Nazism was taking over Europe. Gosh, 1081 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:23.400 we're going to lose that market. We can't offend these guys. 1082 00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:27.519 We have to be nice. We cannot openly criticize Hitler 1083 00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.320 and Nazism. And I love that the Warner Brothers just 1084 00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:32.880 didn't give a shit, and it was great that they 1085 00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:35.000 did that, but there were so many people that were 1086 00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:37.639 just falling right in line and going, oh no, no, 1087 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:40.039 don't worry if you can censor our films, We'll make 1088 00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:43.559 sure that we don't say anything bad about you. And yeah, 1089 00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:46.320 not this one. I love that line too that Rick 1090 00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:48.400 has when he asked Sam what time it is? 1091 00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:53.360 SAMs bose it was December nineteen forty one, and Cash 1092 00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:55.159 a blank at what time was in New York? 1093 00:56:55.880 --> 00:57:01.039 We my watch stuckleep in the yark? 1094 00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:04.119 Better sleep all over America. 1095 00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:09.239 I can really see where you're coming from here. It's 1096 00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:13.639 time for us to wake up. And just Rick is America. Basically, 1097 00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:16.400 he's the guy. I stick my neck out for no one. 1098 00:57:16.599 --> 00:57:19.719 I'm not gonna get involved in this fight. Leave me alone. 1099 00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:21.719 I just want to sit here at my bar and 1100 00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:24.760 have my little world. I don't need to be part 1101 00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:28.719 of any of these other problems, and then eventually realizes, no, 1102 00:57:29.079 --> 00:57:31.400 you're a part of this world. You have to get 1103 00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:34.519 into this fight. It's just like when the Habbits were 1104 00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:40.159 talking with tree Beard, kind of hold back this storm. 1105 00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:44.320 We must weather such things as we have orways done. 1106 00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:47.199 How can that be your decision? 1107 00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:50.920 This is not our war. 1108 00:57:52.360 --> 00:58:06.440 But you're part of this world, aren't you. You must help, please, 1109 00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:09.679 you must do something. 1110 00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:17.639 You are young and brave, Master Maty, but your part 1111 00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:18.039 in the. 1112 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:23.039 Street is over. Go back to your hope. 1113 00:58:26.119 --> 00:58:28.920 Sam has the most haunting delivery of the line, my 1114 00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:32.960 watch stopped. That is maybe the most propaganda ish sounding 1115 00:58:33.079 --> 00:58:34.719 like speech he has, as far as like I bet 1116 00:58:34.760 --> 00:58:36.960 they're sleep all over America. But it still works. I 1117 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.519 still must to find it effective. As far as like 1118 00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.239 the alright that we're touching on it. We're not gonna 1119 00:58:41.239 --> 00:58:43.199 be too on the nose with this stuff too much. 1120 00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:46.239 Yeah, it doesn't Sydney Green Street even have like a 1121 00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:51.119 direct response to Rix like ambivalence. He says, isolationism is 1122 00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:55.199 no longer a viable position to have anymore. 1123 00:58:56.599 --> 00:58:59.800 Green Street is another one where I just again to 1124 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:03.760 two scenes right at the beginning, where we have him 1125 00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:08.639 making those propositions to take over Sam and to buy 1126 00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:11.199 ricks Barr, and then later on we get a little 1127 00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:13.960 bit more of him. Actually I think three scenes, right yeah, 1128 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.199 because we have Rick coming in and talking with him 1129 00:59:17.239 --> 00:59:19.519 and then saying to Laslow, oh yeah, he's the fat 1130 00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:21.639 man and the fez in the corner or whatever, and 1131 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:25.639 then comes back and starts that whole mechanism in order 1132 00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:28.719 to have all those dominoes fall into place at the end, 1133 00:59:28.719 --> 00:59:31.559 of the film. And I love how quickly everything resolves 1134 00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:34.159 itself in this film too, and that there's just that 1135 00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:37.199 moment where you're like, Okay, I'm going to do this 1136 00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:42.320 thing he says, and he's already thought through every single possibility, 1137 00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:45.480 it feels like, and everything just works out exactly the 1138 00:59:45.559 --> 00:59:49.519 way that it should, even when Renault tries to pull 1139 00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:51.679 the rug out from under him and call stress Or 1140 00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:55.159 rather than calling the airport, and that just helps us 1141 00:59:55.480 --> 00:59:59.920 basically get stress Or killed, which I'm all four killing Nazis. 1142 01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:03.440 And Conrad Veitt, yeah, is just phenomenal in here, and 1143 01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:05.480 I love his whole thing. I love that story about 1144 01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:08.599 how when he was still in Germany and he had 1145 01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:10.400 to fill out a card or something where he was 1146 01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:14.360 filling out his passport and for religious wrote jew and 1147 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:18.440 all apsents like, oh that's great even though he wasn't Jewish, 1148 01:00:18.639 --> 01:00:20.840 but he was married to a Jewish woman. He's just like, 1149 01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:21.400 fuck you. 1150 01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:25.239 He's incredible in this. Only a couple of days ago 1151 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:28.679 I watched The Man Who Laughs Again with him and 1152 01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:33.000 what an incredible career he had and what a like 1153 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:37.800 his like morality where he is he left Germany to 1154 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:40.679 come to America to work in the twenties, he was 1155 01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:43.480 in all those like Universal films. Then sound came, his 1156 01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:46.719 accent inability to learn English made him go back. He 1157 01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:49.159 was like one of the highest paid people at UFA. 1158 01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:53.320 Then thirty three real early, he leaves to England, becomes 1159 01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:56.719 a naturalized British citizen, and then when he's working in Hollywood. 1160 01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:59.239 During this entire period, he was the highest paid person 1161 01:00:59.239 --> 01:01:02.519 in the entire cap. He gave his entire estate, most 1162 01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:06.320 of his earnings to a British war relief. Not only that, 1163 01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:10.760 there's little things too where Paul Henried, who was Jewish, 1164 01:01:11.159 --> 01:01:14.679 had to leave and he got stuck in England when 1165 01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:18.239 thirty nine fell, and since he was an Austrian national, 1166 01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:21.159 the immigration police came to him and they're likes, hey, 1167 01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:23.880 we need to know on which side you're going to be. 1168 01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:27.239 We don't know your background, all this sort of stuff. 1169 01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:29.960 And it was Conrad VT that actually vouched for him. 1170 01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:32.920 He actually vouched for Paul Henried and said, no, I 1171 01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:34.920 know him, we have a background on the stage. 1172 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:36.400 That's great. 1173 01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:39.519 I just wanted to bring up the fact that one 1174 01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:42.400 of the first things that you see after the opening 1175 01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:46.320 montage was actually the minaret of the cul to prayer, 1176 01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:49.239 like somebody's actually up there. You were talking about a 1177 01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.440 Muslim adherence in Morocco and how it's just part of 1178 01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:54.760 the background and you don't hear the call to prayer. 1179 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:58.440 In peppeal Imoco you do, but in Casablanki you don't. 1180 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:00.360 But just there. 1181 01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:04.400 As an American born in the seventies, I wasn't sure 1182 01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:07.880 who Marshall Patan was. I believe that was a gentleman's name, 1183 01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:11.320 the guy who is running Vichy France, and that the 1184 01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:15.000 guy is shot in front of that big poster of Batana. 1185 01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:18.519 I was like, Oh, that's nice, that's very telling. And 1186 01:02:18.559 --> 01:02:22.400 they've got that whole the double cross symbol and we 1187 01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:23.880 get to see that there and then we get to 1188 01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:26.320 see it in the guy's ring later on, and that 1189 01:02:26.559 --> 01:02:29.800 helps too. When it came to Passage to Marseilles, which 1190 01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:31.920 you mentioned a little bit earlier, you get to see 1191 01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:34.679 that symbol a bunch more in there, and it's like, oh, okay, 1192 01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:36.480 now I know what this is. It had been a 1193 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.079 while since I'd seen Passage to Marseilles, so I'd forgotten 1194 01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:42.400 what that that they were fighting for the Free French 1195 01:02:42.440 --> 01:02:42.880 as well. 1196 01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:46.719 Yeah, the cross of Lorrain. I love it. In Passage 1197 01:02:46.719 --> 01:02:48.920 to Marseille at the beginning, it's emblazoned on the side 1198 01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:51.559 of the B seventeens, and it's just you see them 1199 01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:54.360 in Russian service, you see them in English service, but 1200 01:02:54.679 --> 01:02:58.360 for free French service, it's really something else. And I 1201 01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:00.400 just want to point out that the guy that up 1202 01:03:00.440 --> 01:03:02.840 to them at the table burger, the character's name is 1203 01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:06.800 John Quahlon. Like we talk about this supporting cast, of 1204 01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:09.599 all supporting cast, this is the all time cast. But 1205 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:12.880 I love John Quaylon every single movie. I know him 1206 01:03:12.920 --> 01:03:16.280 primarily from Groups of Wrath. He has that incredible scene 1207 01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:20.320 at the beginning where he's a farmer basically made completely 1208 01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:22.880 insane by the devastation of the dust bowl, and he 1209 01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:25.639 has this weird, weird, like little ting accent, and it's 1210 01:03:25.639 --> 01:03:29.719 because he's Canadian and his family is Norwegian, each and 1211 01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:33.559 every single person. Basically, the Americans are the minority in 1212 01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:34.960 this can I. 1213 01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:37.639 Think he worked a lot with John Ford. If memory serves, 1214 01:03:38.440 --> 01:03:39.519 I would not be surprised. 1215 01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:41.559 John Ford also had a stock company. 1216 01:03:42.360 --> 01:03:44.239 Yeah, and that was the thing I liked about this 1217 01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:47.039 one as well, and talking about having your green streets, 1218 01:03:47.079 --> 01:03:50.480 your lories your Bogarts and then even the yeah Claude 1219 01:03:50.559 --> 01:03:52.159 Rains to be able to see him show up in 1220 01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:55.920 Pastures Marseille and just say, oh, okay, here's this guy again. 1221 01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:59.079 One of them isn't in there, but even Michael Cartoo's 1222 01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:02.519 directed that one, and I want a six Steiner might 1223 01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:04.280 have done the music. It was like an old home week. 1224 01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:06.440 When it came to watching that movie, I was like, oh, yeah, 1225 01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:09.519 this is very familiar with all these faces and names 1226 01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:10.159 in the credits. 1227 01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:14.760 It's incredible because that was lensed by James Wong Howe, 1228 01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:18.360 one of my favorite cinematographers. You want to talk about 1229 01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:22.119 foreigners in Hollywood, James Wong how was a Chinese American 1230 01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:26.239 working in Hollywood and he had an incredible career. By 1231 01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:28.519 nowadays we talk about how hard it is for people 1232 01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:31.800 of certain backgrounds to get into roles of cinematography. But 1233 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:35.159 he was supposed to lens Casablanca, and they put him 1234 01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:37.960 on a different project. And I think it was Tenny Wright, 1235 01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:40.880 the production manager at Warner Brothers. He was like the 1236 01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:44.719 ultimate dictator and he told Curtis, there is no way 1237 01:04:44.840 --> 01:04:48.360 I'm pulling James Wong how to come work on Casablanca. 1238 01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:51.440 But then you look at Passes to Marseille, and the 1239 01:04:51.559 --> 01:04:56.079 visuals of that movie absolutely floored me. I like within 1240 01:04:56.199 --> 01:04:58.840 five minutes, I was like, Okay, this is why Curtis 1241 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:03.280 is oh special along with How. Of course Edison is 1242 01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:06.880 all right in Casablanca, and the visuals are beautiful, But 1243 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:09.199 there is something to be said for a true like 1244 01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:10.360 luminary like How. 1245 01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.440 And that's the thing that can't be understated is that 1246 01:05:13.880 --> 01:05:17.800 Casablanca was not set up to be some big prestige picture. 1247 01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:22.920 It was just another Warner Brothers movie. People were assigned 1248 01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:25.719 to it, people got picked up for it. It wasn't 1249 01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:28.360 like there was a big casting call for that. It 1250 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:31.320 wasn't Who's gonna be Ilsa? You know, it was just okay, 1251 01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:33.679 it could be this was it could be that person. Okay, 1252 01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.960 we'll go with this one. It wasn't that big of 1253 01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:39.840 a deal. And it just ended up reading all those 1254 01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:44.039 right notes just coming together. That phrase lightning in a bottle. 1255 01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:47.480 That's what this movie ended up being, and had things 1256 01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:49.920 that played out the way that they played out, might 1257 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.159 not be talking about this movie in twenty twenty five. 1258 01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:57.559 Anytime they tried to vote Casablanca in contemporary films, whether 1259 01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:00.639 it's Havana or The Good German, and then it always 1260 01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:03.800 feels weighted down by this kind of pressure to be 1261 01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:06.519 a classic, whereas part of what makes Casablanca so great 1262 01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:08.800 is that it's so light on its feet and races 1263 01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:10.960 along and it doesn't feel like it's trying to be 1264 01:06:11.119 --> 01:06:13.559 something important. It just winds up being important. And I 1265 01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:16.320 think that all of the films that try to evoke it, 1266 01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:18.920 they fair best when they don't seem to be trying 1267 01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:20.480 to do it exactly. 1268 01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:24.639 Yeah, let's talk about that attempt to recapture that lightning again. 1269 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:26.400 We're going to take a break and we'll be back 1270 01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:28.840 with a pair of interviews. First up, we'll hear from 1271 01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:32.400 the author of We'll Always Have Casablanca, Noah Eisenberg. After that, 1272 01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:36.159 we'll hear from Alan k Roady, the author of Michael Kurtiz, 1273 01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:38.599 A Life in Film, and we'll be back with both 1274 01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:41.079 of those right after these brief messages. 1275 01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:53.400 Hello, everyone, this is Malcolm McDowell. I just want to 1276 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:57.800 say that this is a request to listeners of the 1277 01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:03.400 Projection Booth podcast to become patrons of the show via 1278 01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:09.920 Patreon dot com, p A T eo N dot com. 1279 01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:12.280 Slash projection booth. 1280 01:07:12.960 --> 01:07:13.840 That's pretty simple. 1281 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:14.920 I think you can do that. 1282 01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:19.440 It's a great show, and Mike, he provides hours of 1283 01:07:19.639 --> 01:07:23.199 great entertainment. So now it's time to give back my 1284 01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:27.039 little drovies. Settle down and take a listen and have 1285 01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:30.079 a sip of the old Molocco, and then. 1286 01:07:29.960 --> 01:07:31.519 You'll be ready for a little of the. 1287 01:07:31.480 --> 01:07:34.760 Old in out, in out, real horror show. 1288 01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:38.440 Bye bye. 1289 01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:45.840 I know last time when we talked, we were discussing 1290 01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:47.960 actually two times, I believe we had you on the 1291 01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:50.920 show to talk about Edgar Olmer because of your biography 1292 01:07:50.920 --> 01:07:53.960 of him. I'm so curious how you went from Olmer 1293 01:07:54.079 --> 01:07:55.119 to Casablanca. 1294 01:07:55.840 --> 01:07:59.800 Okay, the Olmer book, which I'm happy to say sorry shamelessly, 1295 01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:01.840 is now out on paperback, which is great. Ten years 1296 01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:04.920 later they brought out a paperback edition that was a 1297 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:07.920 labor of love and a labor of many years. The 1298 01:08:07.960 --> 01:08:15.440 Casablanca book came as an opportunity to write for a 1299 01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:20.399 more popular audience. Not strictly, the ome biography was an 1300 01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:24.399 attempt to straddle both a slightly more scholarly film geekish 1301 01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:31.239 world and slightly more popular audience. But the Casablanca book 1302 01:08:31.399 --> 01:08:34.880 was from the very beginning, written with an eye towards 1303 01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:40.039 it's a trade book. It was commissioned by Norton, and 1304 01:08:40.079 --> 01:08:42.000 I was very happy to work with my editor there, 1305 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:46.399 Matt Wiland. It's from the Twin Cities originally. 1306 01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:46.439 And. 1307 01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:52.039 I was talking with Molly Haskell, and Molly Haskell the 1308 01:08:52.039 --> 01:08:56.239 great pioneering feminist film critic from Reverence to Rape, among 1309 01:08:56.359 --> 01:09:02.880 many other fabulous titles. She's a a great mentor and 1310 01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:06.399 friend and support. And we were having lunch not long after. Frankly, 1311 01:09:06.439 --> 01:09:10.039 my dear, her book on Gone with the Wind had 1312 01:09:10.039 --> 01:09:14.479 appeared in the American Icon series at Yale University Press, 1313 01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:17.840 and we were talking about different movies, and somehow we 1314 01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:21.840 got to Casablanca. Didn't take us very long, and she said, no, she didn't. No, 1315 01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:24.720 you really was made for you. You've got this emmigrade 1316 01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:28.319 cast and crew for that matter. It's just a story 1317 01:09:28.359 --> 01:09:31.399 that continues to resonate with audiences and one that you 1318 01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:33.319 know that I held, especially Dear. It's when we were talking 1319 01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:34.560 about my mom moments ago. I think it was my 1320 01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:37.399 mama first showed me the film when I was young, 1321 01:09:38.239 --> 01:09:40.319 and I think it was actually quite resistant to it initially, 1322 01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:43.560 but obviously came around to appreciate it. I overcame my 1323 01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:50.119 teenage rebellious years when I thought that anything like Casablanca 1324 01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:54.800 was just that was strictly for old people. Strange out 1325 01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:57.760 things change over time, but anyway, and so it was 1326 01:09:57.760 --> 01:09:59.640 her idea, and I initially was going to try to 1327 01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:03.319 pitch it to that series. The series, however, went it 1328 01:10:03.359 --> 01:10:05.079 came to an end. We don't want to say it 1329 01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:07.720 went belly up, but it no longer exists. And so 1330 01:10:09.119 --> 01:10:11.600 at that point in time, I had done a fair 1331 01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:18.880 amount of freelance writing for different publications, meaning for in 1332 01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:21.840 this case popular publication, so for the New Republic, for 1333 01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:24.840 the Nation, for the Time, for their Times book review, 1334 01:10:24.880 --> 01:10:26.840 and for places like that. And I'm married to a 1335 01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:31.319 writer and editor and critic, and so I watched from 1336 01:10:31.319 --> 01:10:34.880 afar how the trade press process works, and I figured, 1337 01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:37.600 what the heck, I've got some credentials here. I've written 1338 01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:41.319 pre lance stuffin actually was really Molly's encouragement too, So 1339 01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:42.760 why not, if you're not going to do it for 1340 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:45.640 a university press, why not try and go to the 1341 01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:47.439 trade path. And I did, and I'm very happy. I 1342 01:10:47.439 --> 01:10:51.000 don't think it was too gimmicky but there was the hook, 1343 01:10:51.079 --> 01:10:53.319 which was that the seventy fifth anniversary was coming up, 1344 01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:56.840 and so that I mentioned moments ago that the Omer 1345 01:10:57.000 --> 01:10:59.079 project was very much a labor of love, which is 1346 01:10:59.079 --> 01:11:01.079 not to say that this wasn't as well, but the 1347 01:11:01.079 --> 01:11:04.000 only project was one that also took me, oh god, 1348 01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:06.359 a decade and a half from start to finish. It 1349 01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:10.159 was a really long project. I conducted research on at 1350 01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:13.000 least two contents, if not three, I can't remember now 1351 01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:15.239 in the end, but it was just it. 1352 01:11:15.439 --> 01:11:16.000 It just did. 1353 01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:19.680 It took on various shapes and morphed, and I ended 1354 01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:22.560 up doing the BFI Film Classics book on Detour in 1355 01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:25.000 the midst of it. And then it was during that 1356 01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:28.479 process I think also that in my conversations with my editor, 1357 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:32.800 Mary Francis, who actually is an editor at the University 1358 01:11:32.800 --> 01:11:37.119 of Michigan Press now, and she thought, you know what, Noah, 1359 01:11:37.239 --> 01:11:39.640 maybe you should try to do this what they call 1360 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:40.520 academic trade. 1361 01:11:40.520 --> 01:11:42.000 So I was all kind. 1362 01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:45.399 Of indicators were pointing towards this new effort on my 1363 01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:49.239 part to speak with a popular audience. And so the 1364 01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:54.159 Casablanca book, occasioned by the seventy fifth anniversary of the movie, 1365 01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:59.439 became that opportunity, and I was very happy with how 1366 01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:01.279 it turned out, and it was a lot of fun 1367 01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:06.479 to write. Expressed my deep indebtedness to aljin Harmitz and 1368 01:12:06.520 --> 01:12:09.600 to her pioneering work. Round Up the usual suspects as 1369 01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:11.039 it was original. That was a title under which it 1370 01:12:11.079 --> 01:12:11.920 was originally released. 1371 01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:13.520 And we met. 1372 01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:17.600 We actually in twenty seventeen. We went on this State 1373 01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:22.760 Department junket to Morocco to it was fantastic. It was 1374 01:12:23.159 --> 01:12:28.479 Algean Harmitz, Monica Henry, Paul Henry's daughter, and Jessica Rains 1375 01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:33.920 Claude Raines's daughter. We went and introduced a few screenings 1376 01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:37.960 of Casablanca in Morocco in Casablanca, and I went onward 1377 01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:43.520 to Tangier and then ultimately to Robot and it was 1378 01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:47.520 so much fun. But al Jean harmit's without her book 1379 01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:48.960 and without the interviews. 1380 01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:49.000 That she could have. 1381 01:12:49.039 --> 01:12:50.800 So many of those folks were long gone. By the 1382 01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:53.720 time I started my book. I had to give it 1383 01:12:53.800 --> 01:12:55.680 my own spin, and I had been thanks to the 1384 01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:57.920 Ulmer project and some of my other work. I was 1385 01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:02.960 still very invested in that emigrat crowd that managed to 1386 01:13:03.039 --> 01:13:08.479 make it the whole refugee trail. That's chronicled semi fictitiously, 1387 01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:16.880 semi documentarily in Casablanca. I've been retracing those steps and 1388 01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:22.239 following the different paths that led to Hollywood from Middle Oil, 1389 01:13:22.359 --> 01:13:26.199 but from Central Europe, largely German speaking Europe, but also 1390 01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:30.479 French speaking, and while in the case of Sasha the Barman, 1391 01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:34.239 Russian speaking, though he had to eat as he claims 1392 01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:36.479 his German was the least of the coffee clutch variety, 1393 01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:43.199 so hanging with the Teutonic set. But that was the 1394 01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:50.079 chance to write a book that had a my way 1395 01:13:50.119 --> 01:13:53.199 of characterizing, I guess would be a blend of journalistic 1396 01:13:53.359 --> 01:13:57.720 breeziness with scholarly air udition. And that's it's funny. Those 1397 01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:01.800 are my twin pillars, a tween goals. I'm trying my 1398 01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:04.600 best not to finish up the follow up project on 1399 01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:06.239 some like it hot, which the culture does do some 1400 01:14:06.319 --> 01:14:10.000 might get hot, and basically trying to continue in that 1401 01:14:10.079 --> 01:14:15.479 same vein writing on that most storied of screwball comedies 1402 01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:20.199 and great, great, the great American sex comedy. And so 1403 01:14:21.199 --> 01:14:23.159 the lessons I guess that I learned in writing this 1404 01:14:23.239 --> 01:14:26.439 book have have stuck with me. I wish I were 1405 01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:28.399 a faster writer. I wish, and I wish I didn't 1406 01:14:28.399 --> 01:14:31.840 have these other things that are attention. I've been doing 1407 01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:36.439 a lot of university leadership stuff sharing and was associated 1408 01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:40.319 DAN last year and now serving as executive director of 1409 01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:40.800 these programs. 1410 01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:41.239 It's just fun. 1411 01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:44.520 I enjoy it, but it's hard to have that sustained, 1412 01:14:44.840 --> 01:14:49.720 uninterrupted time. You know that every scholar a writer year 1413 01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:51.920 in sport. It's hard to have it when doing these 1414 01:14:51.960 --> 01:14:55.159 other things. So my I guess I shouldn't give so 1415 01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:57.239 many apologies. But where I left my own device, I'd 1416 01:14:57.279 --> 01:14:59.760 be able to sit down and you know that the 1417 01:15:00.199 --> 01:15:03.079 sits flash. I'd be able to just sit and ammer 1418 01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:07.399 away at the keys and knock out this book project 1419 01:15:07.399 --> 01:15:11.199 because after that, I'm to write a short interpretive biography 1420 01:15:11.479 --> 01:15:12.079 of Wilder. 1421 01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:13.560 Or it's not. 1422 01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:16.399 There's no longer the American Icon series at Yale Universe Press, 1423 01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:18.319 but there is the Yale Jewish Live Series at Yale 1424 01:15:18.399 --> 01:15:23.720 University Press. So I will that's the last in my 1425 01:15:23.880 --> 01:15:28.520 trio a certain menage attois of Wilder projects that includes 1426 01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:32.760 the last book that I was lucky enough to finish up, 1427 01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:36.319 which is Billy Wilder on Assignment Dispatches from y mar 1428 01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:39.600 Borlin and into War Vienna, which I did with a 1429 01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:43.640 translator friend and colleague of mine, Shelley Fish. It's a 1430 01:15:43.960 --> 01:15:48.800 superbly talented translator, award winning translator, So that was a 1431 01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:51.560 lot of fun. But yes, if I can just get 1432 01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:54.039 some like it hot book out the door, then the 1433 01:15:54.119 --> 01:15:58.640 interpretive biography of Wilder and maybe my Wilder three Ways. 1434 01:15:58.760 --> 01:15:59.399 Will be behind. 1435 01:16:00.840 --> 01:16:04.279 But yeah, the Casa Blanca book was a lot of 1436 01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:07.359 fun to write, and the apropos early of the earlier 1437 01:16:08.159 --> 01:16:14.039 much yearned for, sadly frequently neglected, precious time off. I 1438 01:16:14.119 --> 01:16:15.920 was lucky enough to get one of these Any Age 1439 01:16:16.079 --> 01:16:19.159 Public Scholar Awards as their first. It was the inaugural 1440 01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:23.479 group of Any Age Scholars that is a category of 1441 01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:26.159 the National Dowber. Who knows whether we have or even 1442 01:16:26.199 --> 01:16:29.479 today have a national Undown. Few mandays we'll see shouldn't 1443 01:16:29.479 --> 01:16:32.840 be so cynical, but the scary times. Anyway, I was 1444 01:16:32.920 --> 01:16:34.560 lucky to have one of those for an entire year, 1445 01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:37.600 so that that made it possible, and I would work 1446 01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:40.640 on Washington Square in Bolk's Library. I was not I'm 1447 01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:42.960 not affiliated with NYU, but with my new school idea, 1448 01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:45.479 then you could go in there and just and hammer away, 1449 01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:47.680 and it was great. Managed to just really knock that 1450 01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:48.560 one out. 1451 01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:51.439 With this episode, I'm struggling a little bit, and I'm 1452 01:16:51.479 --> 01:16:53.840 curious if you struggled a little bit as well, because 1453 01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:56.880 what is there left to say about Casablanca? So how 1454 01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:00.399 did you determine? This is what I'm going to do, 1455 01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:02.239 This is how I'm going to leave my mark on it. 1456 01:17:03.199 --> 01:17:07.000 I have a tendency I haven't really I need to 1457 01:17:07.039 --> 01:17:12.079 go to some intense psychoanalysis at some point, but a 1458 01:17:12.159 --> 01:17:17.520 tendency to take up subjects that are have trodden paths, 1459 01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:19.960 that have covered pretty much. So I wrote my doctoral 1460 01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:25.439 dissertation on figures like Franz Kafka and Walter Benjamin and 1461 01:17:25.479 --> 01:17:27.800 these others who so many others had come before me. 1462 01:17:28.279 --> 01:17:30.119 But for whatever reason, I don't know why. Maybe it's 1463 01:17:30.439 --> 01:17:36.000 but maybe it's hardheadedness, stubbornness, not sure, but I like 1464 01:17:36.039 --> 01:17:38.920 to write on subjects that hold my attention and that 1465 01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:45.199 animate me and about which I have a large degree 1466 01:17:45.199 --> 01:17:48.640 of passion and really take pleasure and write. It's a 1467 01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:54.199 very foreign idea, anathema to academics call it usually academic colleguere. 1468 01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:57.159 So you picture the Monty Python skit. It like the 1469 01:17:57.239 --> 01:18:01.520 intellectual wrestling with himself or something or this, especially in 1470 01:18:01.520 --> 01:18:04.720 the humanities academic scholarship, has often thought if he's completely 1471 01:18:04.720 --> 01:18:08.760 stripped of all bleacher But for whatever reason, I never 1472 01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:11.920 gave up on that, because I also figured I'd never 1473 01:18:11.960 --> 01:18:15.720 finish anything unless I unless it gave me a certain 1474 01:18:15.760 --> 01:18:19.159 amount of pleasure, and unless I was engaged to the 1475 01:18:19.239 --> 01:18:25.119 degree that it held my attention. And more specifically to Casablanca. Sure, 1476 01:18:25.479 --> 01:18:28.000 with Altine Harmitz's book, Who the hell Needs to write 1477 01:18:28.039 --> 01:18:32.039 Another book? She really covered a lot the anchor if 1478 01:18:32.039 --> 01:18:34.479 we go, the Dude's rug, and the big Lebowski that 1479 01:18:34.560 --> 01:18:37.079 kind of ties the whole room together, the anchor in 1480 01:18:37.119 --> 01:18:40.159 this the chapter on the refugees such much, which for 1481 01:18:40.279 --> 01:18:43.239 me is really all up the wait. I was just 1482 01:18:43.279 --> 01:18:45.560 tie up the te together the entire room. But can 1483 01:18:45.680 --> 01:18:51.359 tie together my interests that I've been pursuing over the 1484 01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:56.520 past several decades, essentially since entering into the whatever hallowed 1485 01:18:56.560 --> 01:19:01.840 walls of academ and teaching classes on exiles in Hollywood, 1486 01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:05.880 and teaching classes on Bresh and on and all these 1487 01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:11.399 filmmakers that I've been including Omer, including Wilder, including zennemn 1488 01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:14.359 and Lang and more Now for that matter as well. 1489 01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:20.760 That was Omer's beginnings were led to Omar and led 1490 01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:26.600 to more Now and working on more Now's storied American 1491 01:19:26.720 --> 01:19:29.359 debut at Fox Studios Sunrise, one of the most beautiful, 1492 01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:33.520 silent pictures ever made. And so the such much chapter 1493 01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:35.720 was a chance for me to. 1494 01:19:38.079 --> 01:19:38.640 Refract. 1495 01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:42.520 So, if you pardon me, this film through this lens 1496 01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:47.800 of the refugees. When the book came out in twenty seventeen, 1497 01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:52.920 we were in the first phase of Trump one point zero, 1498 01:19:52.960 --> 01:19:56.000 and you remember you had the Muslim band, and we 1499 01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:59.520 were in a real state of another sort of refugee crisis, 1500 01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:03.439 so to speak. Can I guess that there wasn't planned 1501 01:20:03.479 --> 01:20:06.560 that way? And I certainly wouldn't wish that upon anyone 1502 01:20:06.640 --> 01:20:12.239 to face the sort of threats that various aliens now 1503 01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:16.159 in air quotes or foreigners faced at that moment in time. 1504 01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:19.840 But the book, I think, in particular that chapter struck 1505 01:20:19.880 --> 01:20:23.319 a certain chord. Now, of course we're in trunk two 1506 01:20:23.319 --> 01:20:27.520 point zero. That's funny. I'm writing on cross dressing and 1507 01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:30.479 drag performance, and once again, there seems to be a 1508 01:20:30.479 --> 01:20:35.399 certain almost subversive quality was never intended that way writing 1509 01:20:35.399 --> 01:20:37.520 on refugees I wasn't tend necessarily to be any way 1510 01:20:37.520 --> 01:20:44.359 subversive or transgressive, but that was my way of making 1511 01:20:44.399 --> 01:20:47.680 the material really into my own. Of course, I follow 1512 01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:52.119 some of those well trodden paths of production history, my 1513 01:20:52.439 --> 01:20:57.319 sort of almost they're not exactly capsule biography or thumbnail, 1514 01:20:58.159 --> 01:20:59.960 but I've got I need to account for the biography 1515 01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:05.560 all these different actors and film professionals whose biographies had 1516 01:21:05.600 --> 01:21:07.760 either been written or were, in the case of Critis, 1517 01:21:07.840 --> 01:21:11.439 we're in the process of being written. I'm thinking about 1518 01:21:11.439 --> 01:21:15.640 Alan Roady's wonderful biography of Critiz. So this was really 1519 01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:19.279 my chance, I think, to give it my own spin, 1520 01:21:19.399 --> 01:21:25.399 which is not to say that's a massive augmentation of 1521 01:21:25.439 --> 01:21:28.600 the material that that Aldi Hermetz was dealing with in 1522 01:21:28.640 --> 01:21:32.840 her round up the usual suspects, but it does take 1523 01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:34.640 it into some different directions of a different places, and 1524 01:21:34.640 --> 01:21:38.960 in particular that the chapter such much the kind of 1525 01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:43.039 anchors the book. Yeah, I mean, when this some like 1526 01:21:43.039 --> 01:21:45.479 a hot book, would have do my best to get 1527 01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:48.279 to finish line. It's there too, where so much has 1528 01:21:48.279 --> 01:21:50.800 been written about that movie, and we've had all of 1529 01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:52.239 these and thankfully it's not in this case that I 1530 01:21:52.239 --> 01:21:54.399 don't need to worry about an anniversary. So it's not 1531 01:21:54.479 --> 01:21:57.840 identy specific anniversary. But so much has been written about it, 1532 01:21:57.880 --> 01:22:00.159 But what hasn't really been written about it is what 1533 01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:06.000 precedes Some Like It Hot. So again, taking me my 1534 01:22:06.439 --> 01:22:10.439 having trained began at Berkeley as a student of Weymar, 1535 01:22:10.520 --> 01:22:13.359 Germany and writing on Vymar culture and the sort of 1536 01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:17.520 the film and literature and music of that period, theater 1537 01:22:17.640 --> 01:22:22.920 of that period, Some Like It Hot is enormously laden 1538 01:22:23.239 --> 01:22:27.000 with Weimar culture, so to speak, with Billy Wilder having 1539 01:22:27.039 --> 01:22:29.199 begun his career, and that's why, Actually it turns out 1540 01:22:29.199 --> 01:22:32.560 that Billy wildern assignment was a great precursor to the 1541 01:22:32.560 --> 01:22:34.319 book on for me to write in the book on 1542 01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:36.760 something like It Hot. But in that case too, it's 1543 01:22:36.800 --> 01:22:42.279 incumbent upon me to give it my own kind of angle. 1544 01:22:43.319 --> 01:22:46.279 Whether or not I succeed in either case or and 1545 01:22:46.359 --> 01:22:48.760 in any case, is really up to the reader to decide. 1546 01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:51.520 But I will try to bring breathe some sort of 1547 01:22:52.439 --> 01:22:57.760 fresh air into it and have it come to life 1548 01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:01.960 in light of some different material that I don't think 1549 01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:05.039 has been brought into conversation with a movie like Some 1550 01:23:05.159 --> 01:23:08.319 Might Get Hot. And I tried to do much of 1551 01:23:08.359 --> 01:23:11.199 this much the same in the book on custom Black. 1552 01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:13.000 I mean, it's funny when I think this through. I've 1553 01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:18.720 been now teaching and in academia as a after having 1554 01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:21.479 finished my degree. I'm hitting the thirty year mark, so 1555 01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:23.960 I'm beginning to get a little bit wistful, and I'm 1556 01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:27.760 reflecting upon everything. I wonder, whether being in Berkeley in 1557 01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:31.479 the first half of the nineteen nineties when this new 1558 01:23:31.560 --> 01:23:35.039 historicism was really taking hold, and my dissertation advisor Anton 1559 01:23:35.159 --> 01:23:38.479 Kays Tony Kayes, who wrote this wonderful book called From 1560 01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:41.560 Hitler to Heimat, taking his title from the crack Hour 1561 01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:43.920 from Calgary to Hitler, but this is on the new 1562 01:23:43.960 --> 01:23:45.960 German cinema, from Hitler to tim and it was very 1563 01:23:46.039 --> 01:23:48.960 much steeped to the kind of new historicist approach, meaning 1564 01:23:49.239 --> 01:23:52.720 taking different moments, different different excuse me, different like kind 1565 01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:55.840 of cultural artifacts from a given moment and bring in 1566 01:23:55.840 --> 01:23:59.680 the conversation with in this case, in his case as 1567 01:23:59.720 --> 01:24:02.520 well as in my case, with film of the period, 1568 01:24:02.560 --> 01:24:07.199 but bringing other kind of philosophical debates or sociological but 1569 01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:10.359 trying to do this, I have to say I'm also 1570 01:24:10.479 --> 01:24:13.800 very indebted to him as a mentor of mine. Because 1571 01:24:13.800 --> 01:24:17.479 he often, even though he was very much a extremely 1572 01:24:17.680 --> 01:24:22.279 erudi film scholar and still is to this day even 1573 01:24:22.319 --> 01:24:25.399 though he's retired, he always often wrote with a kind 1574 01:24:25.439 --> 01:24:29.439 of almost playful and a lighter touch. And it's funny, 1575 01:24:29.479 --> 01:24:31.319 so number of the newest stores is especially Burgler at 1576 01:24:31.319 --> 01:24:35.439 that time, like Stephen Greenblat, the great Shakespeare scholar, also 1577 01:24:35.560 --> 01:24:38.720 wrote with a lighter touch, and I think also wrote, ultimately, 1578 01:24:38.760 --> 01:24:41.920 in the case of green Black, more than my mentor 1579 01:24:42.760 --> 01:24:46.640 for popular audience. Ultimately wrote and continues to write about, 1580 01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:49.119 whether it's in the New Yorker magazine or whether it's 1581 01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:53.439 his books that are again dealing with the long life 1582 01:24:53.640 --> 01:24:57.840 after life, so to speak, of good old billy Shakespeare, 1583 01:24:58.880 --> 01:25:01.640 but doing so for large endings. I don't know. I 1584 01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:05.039 haven't thought that one through entirely, but I've begun to 1585 01:25:05.159 --> 01:25:10.760 recognize certain reflexes, I guess our tendencies that you that 1586 01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:15.279 I can spot in my work, and I think it's 1587 01:25:15.319 --> 01:25:18.560 actually on display in the Casa Blanca book as well. 1588 01:25:19.439 --> 01:25:22.600 That's such much chapter that you're talking about is one 1589 01:25:22.600 --> 01:25:26.119 of my favorites of the whole book, especially just because 1590 01:25:26.199 --> 01:25:30.239 the way that those characters are treated, they're not just wallpaper. 1591 01:25:31.239 --> 01:25:35.399 If you don't have those characters. Yeah, sure you got 1592 01:25:35.439 --> 01:25:38.039 the romance, you got Ilsa and and all that, but 1593 01:25:38.159 --> 01:25:41.279 it's like they add so much in those little vignettes 1594 01:25:41.279 --> 01:25:43.800 and like learning more about Sasha and the whole like 1595 01:25:44.119 --> 01:25:46.680 come back right away, like I don't trust to you 1596 01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:48.960 kind of thing. I love those parts. 1597 01:25:49.520 --> 01:25:53.960 That was a really important chapter for me to write. 1598 01:25:54.479 --> 01:25:58.239 And what Pauline Kale said about the film that you 1599 01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:03.520 otherwise ignore or even held a certain degree of contempt 1600 01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:07.319 for and calling it schlocky romanticism, she says an interview 1601 01:26:07.319 --> 01:26:09.279 with Algine Harmat, she says that were it not for 1602 01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:13.439 those refugees playing refugees on screen, it would just be 1603 01:26:13.520 --> 01:26:16.359 had American actors in there trying to fake these accents. 1604 01:26:16.359 --> 01:26:19.039 It just it wouldn't have the hef the emotional haft 1605 01:26:19.079 --> 01:26:22.439 that it has. Look Madeline le Beau, the last surviving 1606 01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:25.880 cast member who died now several years ago in a 1607 01:26:25.920 --> 01:26:29.840 Spanish coastal town. I think it was, you know, she 1608 01:26:29.920 --> 01:26:33.880 was nineteen at the time. She and her husband had 1609 01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:39.680 just escaped, her husband of course, playing Ami the Coupier, 1610 01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:43.439 who was a great star back in France. In a 1611 01:26:43.520 --> 01:26:47.119 number of Rules of the game and the Grande Lucina, 1612 01:26:47.279 --> 01:26:50.880 but she had actually followed that path, and so when 1613 01:26:50.880 --> 01:26:55.159 she's belting out La marseillees, those are real tears. That's 1614 01:26:55.199 --> 01:26:57.920 the Dan Seymour line. Dan Seymour plays Abdul the door Man. 1615 01:26:58.479 --> 01:27:01.720 It was born Chicago. It was Dan Seymour Katz I 1616 01:27:01.760 --> 01:27:03.520 think was his name, figured up off the cats that 1617 01:27:03.520 --> 01:27:06.600 maybe didn't seem so ethnic. But anyway, he said he 1618 01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:08.279 couldn't believe that they're watching, and he's looking around the 1619 01:27:08.359 --> 01:27:11.399 room and suddenly the real tears were streaming down her faith. 1620 01:27:11.680 --> 01:27:14.920 They were reliving it in many ways. And so I 1621 01:27:14.920 --> 01:27:18.000 think that the souch Much chapter is in so many 1622 01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:19.680 ways the anchor for the book. But it was also 1623 01:27:19.720 --> 01:27:21.640 I think that was the chapter that felt to me. 1624 01:27:22.199 --> 01:27:24.159 And maybe it was also the political moment which the 1625 01:27:24.199 --> 01:27:25.720 book was released in all of that, but it felt 1626 01:27:25.760 --> 01:27:30.039 there was a kind of urgency for me in that chapter. 1627 01:27:30.119 --> 01:27:32.520 And look, you're absolute right. Look, most people watch this 1628 01:27:32.600 --> 01:27:35.800 movie and I guess it's still technically February now today, 1629 01:27:35.840 --> 01:27:38.279 the twenty fourth, but it's usually about ten days ago 1630 01:27:38.319 --> 01:27:42.079 on the fourteenth, on Valentine's Day, where you have these 1631 01:27:42.079 --> 01:27:44.760 screenings and it's really It's all about the romance. It's 1632 01:27:44.800 --> 01:27:50.560 all about that bitter but also magnificent romance between Rick 1633 01:27:50.640 --> 01:27:54.760 and Ilsa, I guess by turns bitter and magnificent, and 1634 01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:57.560 the wish fulfillment that is suspended in a way at 1635 01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:02.479 the end, the need to repress one's libidinal and personal 1636 01:28:02.520 --> 01:28:06.000 desire for the greater good, something that is so anathemach 1637 01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:09.239 of the current political age, it seems. But that's what 1638 01:28:09.279 --> 01:28:13.319 people tended to focus on, and why not. But I 1639 01:28:13.359 --> 01:28:18.039 think what was much less recognized and much less had 1640 01:28:18.159 --> 01:28:20.039 really made its way to kind of the popular imagination. 1641 01:28:20.119 --> 01:28:23.479 The way that these iconic images of Rick and Ilsa 1642 01:28:23.640 --> 01:28:28.760 on the tarmac, or Rick and Ilsa in the Breisian flashback, 1643 01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:31.439 or Rick and Ilsa when she comes and meets him 1644 01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:36.359 in his man cave, his layer above Rick's cafe, those 1645 01:28:36.359 --> 01:28:39.760 are the images I think that people hold dear and 1646 01:28:39.840 --> 01:28:44.560 have held dear over now eight decades. But I think 1647 01:28:44.560 --> 01:28:47.319 that the refugee story is something that for most people 1648 01:28:47.359 --> 01:28:49.800 is utterly unknown. It's I think it was Andrea Asimon, 1649 01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:55.560 who is a great novelist, critic, memoirist. Is He's got 1650 01:28:55.560 --> 01:28:59.960 a new book out. No I'm chilling for Andrea Asimon's 1651 01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:01.520 I had a wonderful book. I just read it recently. 1652 01:29:02.159 --> 01:29:04.279 I called my I think it's called My Roman Years 1653 01:29:04.800 --> 01:29:07.760 when his family first he did out of Egypt, which 1654 01:29:07.800 --> 01:29:10.359 is the family of his story, leaving Alexandria Egypt. But 1655 01:29:10.600 --> 01:29:13.279 this My Roman Year is really terrific in any cases, 1656 01:29:13.319 --> 01:29:15.359 Andrey Asimon, who told me, I interviewed a lot of 1657 01:29:15.359 --> 01:29:20.520 people for this project. I couldn't interview those who passed, unfortunately, 1658 01:29:20.560 --> 01:29:24.039 unless we communicated somehow beyond the grave with one another. 1659 01:29:24.840 --> 01:29:26.760 But I didn't manage to interview Ondre Ausimon. 1660 01:29:26.880 --> 01:29:27.199 He said. 1661 01:29:28.119 --> 01:29:32.600 He called it a certain structure, not to be overly academic, 1662 01:29:33.359 --> 01:29:35.760 but his structural absence in the film, you have Jews. 1663 01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:38.199 They're all over the screen, but nowhere in the picture. 1664 01:29:38.479 --> 01:29:41.159 And there's that. And by the way, they weren't all doish. 1665 01:29:41.159 --> 01:29:45.520 There were also those like al Mucdantine and Conrad Veidt 1666 01:29:46.159 --> 01:29:50.119 who were principled anti Nazis. And look, for that matter, 1667 01:29:50.119 --> 01:29:51.760 Paul Henry, I don't want to forget him. Oh God, 1668 01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:54.760 Monica would kill me who were anti Nazis. In case 1669 01:29:54.760 --> 01:29:56.960 of Paul Henry, who plays one on screen, many of 1670 01:29:57.000 --> 01:30:01.760 the others, including no and Tina he gets to play 1671 01:30:01.840 --> 01:30:04.840 Jan Brandel, so she still he plays a Nazi. Of course, 1672 01:30:05.279 --> 01:30:08.039 Miss he plays a Nazi flyer the air men in 1673 01:30:08.239 --> 01:30:14.720 Miss Miniver. But connor Veit, who plays a major Strasser, 1674 01:30:15.560 --> 01:30:17.840 he had experienced the Nazis person and was married to 1675 01:30:17.880 --> 01:30:21.680 a Jewish woman, Lipraga, who is a famous theater stage actress. 1676 01:30:21.760 --> 01:30:25.239 And there was so much invested I think in this production, 1677 01:30:25.359 --> 01:30:28.199 in that regard on the emotionally invested money. It was 1678 01:30:28.520 --> 01:30:34.680 run of the mill, Warner's Warner Brothers picture, nothing terribly 1679 01:30:34.720 --> 01:30:38.960 lavish in terms of budget, and as people have told 1680 01:30:39.119 --> 01:30:42.039 and told again, nobody had any idea what it would 1681 01:30:42.079 --> 01:30:45.159 go on to become. They were making a movie, and obviously, 1682 01:30:45.359 --> 01:30:47.680 as we now learned, I think is especially with respect 1683 01:30:48.079 --> 01:30:52.359 to the refugee question, so to speak, I think there 1684 01:30:52.399 --> 01:30:55.319 was tons invested on the part. And again whether it's 1685 01:30:55.359 --> 01:31:01.439 Mike Curtiz who had fled himself, Peter Lourie again, a 1686 01:31:01.439 --> 01:31:04.720 lot of the sort of the day players as well. 1687 01:31:05.479 --> 01:31:09.039 The title such much comes from Ludwig Stirussel and Ika Kgrouni, 1688 01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:13.359 who were both Austrian. Accuracy were unknown, utterly unknown, and 1689 01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:16.920 they have that little cute exchange you know what, Hinder 1690 01:31:17.359 --> 01:31:21.199 vaner Fassbender only slightly exaggerated, les, this is the most 1691 01:31:21.199 --> 01:31:23.520 beautiful piece of dialogue ever written in the history of 1692 01:31:23.560 --> 01:31:26.159 motion pictures. When they have this sort of banter back 1693 01:31:26.199 --> 01:31:30.279 and forth learning their English for America, preparing you know what, 1694 01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:36.119 watch can watch such much. That's just it's wooden and 1695 01:31:36.239 --> 01:31:39.479 literal translation from the German into English. And what's the 1696 01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:44.159 sort of sly in joke for the emmigret set. And 1697 01:31:44.199 --> 01:31:46.520 I guess for audiences that at that point in time too. 1698 01:31:46.640 --> 01:31:50.399 This is you know, released Thanksgiving Day in nineteen forty two, 1699 01:31:50.720 --> 01:31:53.439 not very far from where I'm seated here in Midtel, Manhattan, 1700 01:31:53.439 --> 01:31:57.680 the old Hollywood Theater now ay a parking garage. But 1701 01:31:58.960 --> 01:32:01.760 I think people were studying and in your parts for sure, 1702 01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:07.079 in Michigan, in Wisconsin, no doubt, Minnesota, throughout the Midwest, 1703 01:32:07.119 --> 01:32:09.600 people were still studying German. So I think that it 1704 01:32:09.640 --> 01:32:12.039 wasn't at all in common, especially if you were educated 1705 01:32:12.039 --> 01:32:15.560 in college educated specifically that you would have taken some German. 1706 01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:19.319 So I think so much of the German banter in 1707 01:32:19.399 --> 01:32:23.399 this movie is left entirely untranslated, and either you're getting 1708 01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:25.079 it or at least you have enough of an idea 1709 01:32:25.119 --> 01:32:29.960 to get it. And I think today they wouldn't do that. 1710 01:32:30.319 --> 01:32:32.800 I think we've become increasingly monolingual. It's not a very 1711 01:32:32.800 --> 01:32:36.640 profound statement, but I think at that point in time again, 1712 01:32:36.720 --> 01:32:42.279 because of our history of migration and the enormous German 1713 01:32:42.279 --> 01:32:44.279 speaking community throughout, not just the Midwest. 1714 01:32:44.359 --> 01:32:44.640 Is funny. 1715 01:32:44.680 --> 01:32:46.359 I was in the Austin Texas and the whole country 1716 01:32:46.359 --> 01:32:49.359 in Texas to especially in nineteenth century, had a large migration. 1717 01:32:49.479 --> 01:32:51.720 Only you have the Pennsylvania Dutch, but that's actually just 1718 01:32:51.760 --> 01:32:56.560 a misnomer. It's a Pensylvania Deutsch. They just call it Dutch. 1719 01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:59.840 They are right, but they're German speakers as well throughout. 1720 01:33:00.079 --> 01:33:02.439 And then of course you have the Amish. You're not 1721 01:33:02.520 --> 01:33:06.399 just in Pennsylvania, but in Ohio and elsewhere. I think that, 1722 01:33:06.520 --> 01:33:08.600 and I'm not suggesting that the Amish were actually flocking 1723 01:33:08.640 --> 01:33:13.880 to go see get me wrong, but people I'm sure 1724 01:33:14.279 --> 01:33:19.479 were at least vaguely familiar with some of that. As 1725 01:33:20.159 --> 01:33:24.039 leonit Kinski, who plays Sash of the Barman as he 1726 01:33:24.079 --> 01:33:26.840 called it, that sort of cafe Klutch German. You would 1727 01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:30.920 have heard it around the way, so to speak, and 1728 01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:34.399 it gives it that texture. It really does the scene. 1729 01:33:34.439 --> 01:33:40.199 So when Arthur Edison's camera pans the interior of Rick's cafe, 1730 01:33:40.279 --> 01:33:43.479 and we have those sort of snatches of dialogue in 1731 01:33:43.520 --> 01:33:46.960 all of these foreign languages, including Leonid Kinsky's native Russian. 1732 01:33:47.359 --> 01:33:50.720 When he wishes the brit who does a little cheerio 1733 01:33:50.920 --> 01:33:55.600 to him, he gives him a nostrova when they're and 1734 01:33:55.680 --> 01:34:00.479 you have the Chinese who are speaking to one another, 1735 01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:06.720 you have French spoken, you have Italian for the sort 1736 01:34:06.720 --> 01:34:10.680 of the comedy almost bought Borsch Bulkshtick where the Italian 1737 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:14.800 can't get in a word edgewise with And so I 1738 01:34:14.840 --> 01:34:17.640 think that those you know, again, I returned to build 1739 01:34:17.880 --> 01:34:20.560 pulline Kale's comment, which I think is is such a 1740 01:34:20.640 --> 01:34:23.279 valid one that with if you had American actors who 1741 01:34:23.279 --> 01:34:28.640 are faking those accents, it just it wouldn't have that 1742 01:34:28.640 --> 01:34:32.479 that veneer at least, if not more than just a veneer, 1743 01:34:32.479 --> 01:34:36.680 but that veneer of authenticity, right or it just it 1744 01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:41.640 feels and that even from the very opening of this film, 1745 01:34:41.640 --> 01:34:44.800 and that's what I was joking moments ago and seeing 1746 01:34:44.800 --> 01:34:50.199 this sort of this semi documentary touch of the film, 1747 01:34:50.199 --> 01:34:53.159 which is it opens and it's got that newsreel style 1748 01:34:53.840 --> 01:34:58.680 announcing what's happening in in Casablanca and these refugees, from 1749 01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:02.239 the very beginning with tipped off, Aha, We've got a 1750 01:35:02.279 --> 01:35:05.439 crisis on our hands and throughout it. Look, this is 1751 01:35:05.479 --> 01:35:07.760 a film that had to, like any film made after 1752 01:35:08.000 --> 01:35:11.079 Pearl Harbor, had to pass through the Office of War 1753 01:35:11.119 --> 01:35:13.600 Information and get the sort of the seal of approval 1754 01:35:13.600 --> 01:35:17.680 that it lends support to the Allied war effort. This film, too, 1755 01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:22.039 is very much aimed at galvanizing support. Rick is, as 1756 01:35:22.079 --> 01:35:24.720 we know, and is that right in the book, is 1757 01:35:24.840 --> 01:35:29.199 really a sort of almost a cipher of sort of 1758 01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:32.520 American foreign policy, right. And it's the character arc of 1759 01:35:32.640 --> 01:35:37.600 Rick Blaine that moves from that the Professions of isolationism. 1760 01:35:37.600 --> 01:35:40.159 I stick my net out for nobody, which he others two, 1761 01:35:40.319 --> 01:35:42.159 possibly even three times, I can't remember now. I think 1762 01:35:42.159 --> 01:35:44.359 it's certainly twice. I think even at least then he 1763 01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:48.880 intimates it maybe the third time. But to that principled engagement, 1764 01:35:48.920 --> 01:35:51.239 the support for the Allied war effort to such a 1765 01:35:51.239 --> 01:35:53.279 degree that he's going to put ills on that plane 1766 01:35:53.319 --> 01:35:56.359 to head off with Victor to fight the good fight, 1767 01:35:56.880 --> 01:36:01.960 and he's going to march off with his panion with 1768 01:36:02.079 --> 01:36:05.079 Captain Renault with claud Rains and heads to the Free 1769 01:36:05.119 --> 01:36:08.600 French garrison. The whole film is so economical and moves 1770 01:36:08.640 --> 01:36:12.279 so swiftly. But that's a very tidy way of ending 1771 01:36:12.359 --> 01:36:15.359 the film and not running into hot water with the 1772 01:36:15.399 --> 01:36:20.039 Production Code administration too, because Ilsa has cannot stay with Rick, 1773 01:36:20.399 --> 01:36:23.479 even though audience is like, no, you can't leave him 1774 01:36:23.520 --> 01:36:27.600 all this, she stays with Rick, and that production is 1775 01:36:27.640 --> 01:36:31.039 going to have to get shelved. You're more than It's 1776 01:36:31.079 --> 01:36:35.199 like a full throated endorsement of adultery, and you can 1777 01:36:35.640 --> 01:36:40.159 allude to adultery, as the film abundantly does numerous even 1778 01:36:40.199 --> 01:36:43.600 on the tarmac. When Rick says to Victory, this is 1779 01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:46.439 it's funny. It's almost like John Tarture. I keep coming 1780 01:36:46.439 --> 01:36:49.119 back to Labowski. I don't know why, but John tarturos 1781 01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:52.920 that Jesus with his bowling ball there, when Rick is like, yes, 1782 01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:56.159 she came, and she Ilsa she wanted. She claimed that 1783 01:36:56.199 --> 01:36:59.960 she was still lovely and I let let her show it. 1784 01:37:02.159 --> 01:37:05.079 I don't know. I don't know if that's a definition 1785 01:37:05.119 --> 01:37:07.640 of peacocking or what the right term is for that, 1786 01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:11.600 but basically, it's like I had her too something. There's 1787 01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:13.880 a lot of much cheese bummy. Course it's bogie and 1788 01:37:13.880 --> 01:37:16.600 there's a lot of swagger. But you can do that 1789 01:37:16.760 --> 01:37:19.119 and get away with it. But you can't have Ilsa 1790 01:37:19.239 --> 01:37:23.279 stay with him on that darmac and let her husband, 1791 01:37:23.640 --> 01:37:26.840 God forbid, board that playing without her. So it's a 1792 01:37:26.920 --> 01:37:30.520 very neat and tidy way of ending it and leading 1793 01:37:30.520 --> 01:37:36.479 to the audiences the viewer's imagination what's going to happen next? 1794 01:37:36.920 --> 01:37:38.880 Is Ill's going to return? And that's why people have 1795 01:37:38.920 --> 01:37:41.840 all these sort of spin offs and all the Simpsons 1796 01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:43.760 whatever it is, half a dozen more than half a 1797 01:37:43.800 --> 01:37:48.000 dozen episodes that have little Casablanca spokes in all of 1798 01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:50.159 the New Yorker cartoons and all that is that it 1799 01:37:50.199 --> 01:37:54.159 allows you to imagine, oh what next it So if 1800 01:37:54.159 --> 01:37:58.640 you're David Thompson and you're writing in his novel or 1801 01:37:58.640 --> 01:38:01.479 it's more of a collection of aphorism, but it's fictional, 1802 01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:05.920 all based on different films. When it gets to when 1803 01:38:05.920 --> 01:38:09.720 it gets to Casablanca, though, you imagine that it's really 1804 01:38:10.600 --> 01:38:13.439 it's Rick and Renault. They are the true lovers that 1805 01:38:13.520 --> 01:38:16.439 Rick is marching off with Claude Rains, and that they 1806 01:38:16.439 --> 01:38:19.880 will consummate their love. And there's so many moments throughout 1807 01:38:19.880 --> 01:38:25.079 the film where Claude rains as Captain Renault professes his 1808 01:38:25.199 --> 01:38:28.840 love of Rick. Right, were I a woman? And all 1809 01:38:28.920 --> 01:38:34.760 these yes, Oh they're y ricky. The banter between the 1810 01:38:34.760 --> 01:38:38.159 two of them, it's more than even the I think 1811 01:38:38.479 --> 01:38:44.399 homo eroticism between Barton Keys and Walter Neff in Double Indemnity, 1812 01:38:44.399 --> 01:38:47.520 which is also laden with I think as Parker always 1813 01:38:47.640 --> 01:38:50.600 transposed those two days. One of the early film critics, 1814 01:38:50.640 --> 01:38:53.920 Parker Tyler, who wrote on homosexuality in Cinema. 1815 01:38:54.640 --> 01:38:59.800 When you start writing about the post Casablanca and just 1816 01:38:59.880 --> 01:39:04.560 mentioned the Simpsons and David Thompson's book, that feels to 1817 01:39:04.600 --> 01:39:07.039 me like you must have spent an inordinate amount of 1818 01:39:07.039 --> 01:39:10.479 time working on all of those references that came in that. 1819 01:39:11.479 --> 01:39:14.760 To now, it's almost eighty years or eighty some years. 1820 01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:19.880 So there's a new film out Austin favorite Richard link Later, 1821 01:39:20.039 --> 01:39:22.640 Rick link Later. He's got a new film that just 1822 01:39:22.720 --> 01:39:27.640 premiered at the Berly Nale a week ago called Blue Moon, 1823 01:39:27.880 --> 01:39:30.760 and Ethan Hawk plays. I think it's barman is his 1824 01:39:30.840 --> 01:39:32.399 main He's a barman, but I think he also is 1825 01:39:32.960 --> 01:39:36.159 he writes music. He's a musician. I haven't seen you. 1826 01:39:36.199 --> 01:39:36.960 I'm just heard about it. 1827 01:39:37.039 --> 01:39:41.199 But apparently there's a lot of Casa Blanca banter in 1828 01:39:41.239 --> 01:39:43.920 that film as well. And it just it's one of 1829 01:39:43.920 --> 01:39:50.960 those movies because it's so deeply ingrained in the in 1830 01:39:51.000 --> 01:39:54.079 our consciousness, right in our kind of popular imagination, and 1831 01:39:54.119 --> 01:39:56.119 because we know these lines, even if we've never even 1832 01:39:56.119 --> 01:39:59.239 seen the movie. We know these lines. We know that 1833 01:39:59.399 --> 01:40:01.399 whatever we all like, always have Paris or my case, 1834 01:40:01.439 --> 01:40:06.600 will always have Casklanka. But we know the shocked, shocked. 1835 01:40:07.880 --> 01:40:11.279 We know here's looking at you. We know these lines. 1836 01:40:12.960 --> 01:40:17.960 It's a an easy way, I think, to reference something 1837 01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:25.039 that has really broad appeal and that it's in our 1838 01:40:25.119 --> 01:40:28.359 collective register, people will recognize it. 1839 01:40:27.479 --> 01:40:31.239 And whether it's in a satirical vein or a more 1840 01:40:31.279 --> 01:40:35.760 serious vein, it just it's you see it over and 1841 01:40:35.800 --> 01:40:38.199 over again. I looked at book came out in twenty seventeen, 1842 01:40:38.199 --> 01:40:41.520 and I referenced Blue Moon as it's called the new 1843 01:40:41.560 --> 01:40:44.279 link later movie, which haven't yet seen. But there are 1844 01:40:44.319 --> 01:40:48.279 so many films that have come since Sentence. I found myself. 1845 01:40:48.439 --> 01:40:51.560 Spielberg was a huge fan of Casablanca. He's a huge 1846 01:40:51.600 --> 01:40:54.119 fan of just classical Hollywood in general. I think was 1847 01:40:54.199 --> 01:40:56.399 one of those people who's weaned on the movies and 1848 01:40:56.439 --> 01:40:59.800 it just stayed in it part of his toolbox. But 1849 01:41:00.119 --> 01:41:06.479 I was in the mountains last month and we had 1850 01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:09.199 a DVD player, remember Them, and it was in the 1851 01:41:09.199 --> 01:41:11.880 place where were staying, and you could check out movies, 1852 01:41:11.920 --> 01:41:14.399 and we got the box set of Raiders that lost 1853 01:41:14.640 --> 01:41:20.079 the whole Raiders franchise, and I had seen not all 1854 01:41:20.079 --> 01:41:21.760 of them, but a lot of them, and I just 1855 01:41:21.920 --> 01:41:25.119 couldn't believe how many of them have a certain almost 1856 01:41:25.159 --> 01:41:27.680 a Rick's Cafe or a kind of There's so there 1857 01:41:27.720 --> 01:41:31.079 just seem to be so many, either subtle or in 1858 01:41:31.119 --> 01:41:35.520 certain instances even more explicit allusions to Casablanca, and I 1859 01:41:35.560 --> 01:41:37.840 think that you just it's. 1860 01:41:38.880 --> 01:41:39.199 There are that. 1861 01:41:39.399 --> 01:41:42.479 Look, I'm not doing the best job of articulating this, 1862 01:41:42.560 --> 01:41:45.279 but I think that people like whether it's Spielberger in 1863 01:41:45.319 --> 01:41:50.600 the meantime, many filmmakers of the next succeeding generations. It's 1864 01:41:50.600 --> 01:41:53.359 one of those movies that people have seen, they've talked about, 1865 01:41:53.439 --> 01:41:56.119 and so it has a way of kind of cropping 1866 01:41:56.199 --> 01:41:59.840 up and it does so as well win these sort 1867 01:41:59.880 --> 01:42:04.960 of satirical cartoons it does. So it's Matt Sulman who's 1868 01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:09.199 one of the writers on the Simpson he told me, 1869 01:42:09.439 --> 01:42:11.600 and then I interviewed him as well. He said that 1870 01:42:12.239 --> 01:42:14.000 he wasn't even sure he's actually ever seen the movie 1871 01:42:14.039 --> 01:42:18.159 start to finish, but he could in the writer's room. 1872 01:42:18.600 --> 01:42:20.800 He could riff on it and they would come up, both, 1873 01:42:20.960 --> 01:42:22.840 let's put such a let's go drink it the well 1874 01:42:22.880 --> 01:42:26.119 again of Casablanca. We get what's there's there? I think 1875 01:42:26.119 --> 01:42:28.880 there's more to drink there. And so as you go 1876 01:42:28.960 --> 01:42:32.000 back to it, because they you can spin off another 1877 01:42:32.920 --> 01:42:37.600 thread of that Yon part. The subtitle is only slightly hyperbolic, 1878 01:42:38.039 --> 01:42:42.760 which is the life legend in After Life Hollywood's most 1879 01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:47.920 beloved movie, And I look, is it really the most 1880 01:42:48.239 --> 01:42:52.800 I think in many precincts that it is. And and 1881 01:42:52.880 --> 01:42:56.119 one of the things that makes it so widely beloved 1882 01:42:56.239 --> 01:42:59.520 is that I think that it speaks to people. It 1883 01:42:59.560 --> 01:43:04.159 speaks to people in all different ways. Umberto Echo when 1884 01:43:04.199 --> 01:43:08.560 he was in Bologna with his sort of laboratory of Semutitians, 1885 01:43:08.560 --> 01:43:10.560 of people who are studying the science of science. So 1886 01:43:11.159 --> 01:43:16.159 they just went through as to use another sorry academic term, 1887 01:43:16.439 --> 01:43:19.960 when it's unpacked all of these different archetypes and sort 1888 01:43:19.960 --> 01:43:24.920 of layers of meeting these different figures, and through that 1889 01:43:25.079 --> 01:43:27.479 lens you can just see why it is. As he 1890 01:43:27.560 --> 01:43:30.920 puts it, it's not one movie, but it's movies. It's 1891 01:43:30.920 --> 01:43:35.560 a movie that radiates moviness. And so it works well 1892 01:43:35.600 --> 01:43:38.720 for Shorthand in that regard to you'll see a sort 1893 01:43:38.720 --> 01:43:41.720 of a stray obviously, and play it against Sam. You've 1894 01:43:41.720 --> 01:43:47.640 got all sorts of especially bogie posters, and there definitely 1895 01:43:47.720 --> 01:43:49.279 must be one from Gass and Block, but there are 1896 01:43:49.279 --> 01:43:51.079 other from a camera will track and you'll see on 1897 01:43:51.119 --> 01:43:54.119 a wall and image there. In a way, it betrays 1898 01:43:54.439 --> 01:43:58.359 a kind of synophilia or film geekdom, or whatever the 1899 01:43:58.359 --> 01:43:59.720 hell you want to call it, on the part of 1900 01:43:59.720 --> 01:44:02.840 whoever it is who's inhabiting that space or something. And 1901 01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:06.640 so it works, I think nicely in that regard to 1902 01:44:08.159 --> 01:44:09.960 we Obviously it's funny. So the book came out in 1903 01:44:09.960 --> 01:44:14.239 twenty seventeen. That was for the seventy fifth. So five 1904 01:44:14.319 --> 01:44:17.439 years later, fast forward to twenty twenty two, I'm doing 1905 01:44:17.439 --> 01:44:21.000 all these interviews for the eightieth and it hasn't really 1906 01:44:21.000 --> 01:44:24.680 lost steam, teach, and so I've talked with a lot 1907 01:44:24.720 --> 01:44:27.319 of and I've got a nineteen year old myself and 1908 01:44:27.359 --> 01:44:29.720 a fourteen year old. But I talked with a lot 1909 01:44:29.720 --> 01:44:33.960 of young students, and even they like me when I 1910 01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:38.039 was a teenager, when I rejected it, they overcome that, 1911 01:44:38.840 --> 01:44:41.880 and they when watching it together, especially, which is the 1912 01:44:41.880 --> 01:44:44.479 way I like to watch movies always, in the way 1913 01:44:44.479 --> 01:44:49.359 I do in class, whenever possible, watch together. Suddenly they're 1914 01:44:49.399 --> 01:44:52.640 seeing things too that they had never realized they heard 1915 01:44:52.640 --> 01:44:56.359 people talk about, but Denver had realized, Aha, this is 1916 01:44:56.520 --> 01:45:01.199 what they're actually referencing. And again, I think because of 1917 01:45:01.279 --> 01:45:03.800 the I mentioned this sort of how economical it is. 1918 01:45:03.840 --> 01:45:05.840 And I think that the critiz was one of the 1919 01:45:05.840 --> 01:45:10.439 most proficient directors and prolific for that matter too, of 1920 01:45:10.479 --> 01:45:14.199 his generation. But he, together with his DP, with his 1921 01:45:14.239 --> 01:45:18.960 cameraman Arthur Edison, shot the Maltese Falcon just the previous 1922 01:45:19.039 --> 01:45:23.800 year with John Houston his directorial debut. They it just 1923 01:45:23.880 --> 01:45:26.479 it moves swiftly. It just moves swiftly from beginning to end. 1924 01:45:26.560 --> 01:45:30.960 I think that for especially in this age of distraction 1925 01:45:32.039 --> 01:45:37.640 and compression, it really it still works for audiences watching 1926 01:45:38.279 --> 01:45:41.960 TikTok videos and vines or whatever the hell we watch 1927 01:45:42.000 --> 01:45:45.680 these days, but still it moves so swiftly that you 1928 01:45:45.720 --> 01:45:51.199 can really allow yourself to just be drawn in and 1929 01:45:51.279 --> 01:45:54.359 swept up in its taken by the I don't know, 1930 01:45:54.439 --> 01:45:58.359 undertow or something, but it was Jim Hoberman, who great critic, 1931 01:45:58.399 --> 01:46:01.560 former critic of the Village Voice many years. He said 1932 01:46:01.880 --> 01:46:04.960 that he when he would be at home and imagine 1933 01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:07.319 probably TCM whatever turn of classic movies, which is really, 1934 01:46:07.359 --> 01:46:09.039 if we want to be honest with ourselves, the Costa 1935 01:46:09.079 --> 01:46:12.880 Blanca channels just always on. But he says, when you 1936 01:46:12.960 --> 01:46:16.159 can step in at any point over the whatever is 1937 01:46:16.239 --> 01:46:20.239 crisp one hundred and three minutes or whatever the runtime 1938 01:46:20.319 --> 01:46:23.720 is of the film, and you just start from there. 1939 01:46:23.760 --> 01:46:27.000 It doesn't matter where, what point timey, just you're in it. 1940 01:46:27.760 --> 01:46:31.239 And that's also I think something special about the film. 1941 01:46:31.800 --> 01:46:35.039 It definitely rewards repeat viewing that much. We know. Roger 1942 01:46:35.079 --> 01:46:37.359 Ebert was famous for talking about that as well, and 1943 01:46:37.399 --> 01:46:39.920 it was famous. Look in a way, it's not to 1944 01:46:40.119 --> 01:46:43.239 the late great Ebert this notion of the beloved movie, 1945 01:46:43.279 --> 01:46:45.640 because he was often asked, what is your favorite movie? 1946 01:46:46.239 --> 01:46:49.359 And he always felt obliged to say, sure, if you're 1947 01:46:49.359 --> 01:46:53.600 going to talk about craftsmanship and film form and master 1948 01:46:53.720 --> 01:46:55.880 and so forth. Maybe it would be Citizen King, But 1949 01:46:55.920 --> 01:46:57.279 he says, what's the movie that you really want to 1950 01:46:57.279 --> 01:46:59.520 watch and enjoy watching. It's Casa Blanca. 1951 01:47:00.000 --> 01:47:00.520 I'm messaid. 1952 01:47:00.520 --> 01:47:03.159 Look, there's so many other fabulous movies, no doubt, but 1953 01:47:04.159 --> 01:47:08.720 especially when talking about classical Hollywood and the sort of 1954 01:47:08.760 --> 01:47:13.000 the holy grails of classical Hollywood. I think that's often 1955 01:47:13.119 --> 01:47:14.960 whether it's an ambidious comparison or not, doesn't make it. 1956 01:47:15.000 --> 01:47:17.840 Don't care about that bullshit, But I do think there's 1957 01:47:17.840 --> 01:47:19.520 some credence to it in the sense, and I teach 1958 01:47:19.960 --> 01:47:22.640 Kane it's hard not to. But it is a more 1959 01:47:22.680 --> 01:47:26.399 pleasurable experience, I would argue, because it is not. We 1960 01:47:26.479 --> 01:47:31.159 don't have Greg Tolan's camera shot at a low angle, 1961 01:47:31.520 --> 01:47:34.359 placed the low angle behind the fireplace. You don't have 1962 01:47:35.800 --> 01:47:40.479 this sort of almost neo expressionist touches with the mirror. 1963 01:47:41.159 --> 01:47:43.760 You just don't have all of that, which is is 1964 01:47:43.800 --> 01:47:48.439 brilliant and visually rich and stimulating. But Gossablanca is more 1965 01:47:48.479 --> 01:47:52.239 about pulling you into It's what good old Jack Warner said, 1966 01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:56.399 one of the three most precious ingredients of making movie story, story, 1967 01:47:56.439 --> 01:47:59.760 and story, And I think that's it. It really privileges 1968 01:47:59.840 --> 01:48:03.199 now narrative over the sort of the visual acrobatics that 1969 01:48:03.239 --> 01:48:08.720 you have in a in a film like like Kine. Again, no, no, 1970 01:48:08.760 --> 01:48:11.359 I'm not meaning in any way to disc Kaine. But 1971 01:48:11.479 --> 01:48:16.720 Caine is much more about virtuosity, right than it is 1972 01:48:16.720 --> 01:48:17.319 about story. 1973 01:48:17.399 --> 01:48:17.800 The story. 1974 01:48:18.560 --> 01:48:20.920 It's certainly well told, there's no question about that. But 1975 01:48:21.039 --> 01:48:24.600 I think in the case of Gasablanca, it's really from 1976 01:48:24.640 --> 01:48:29.159 beginning to end, all about that great story, that great 1977 01:48:29.159 --> 01:48:29.720 old story. 1978 01:48:29.800 --> 01:48:29.960 Right. 1979 01:48:30.640 --> 01:48:35.520 This time goes by, when you're some like a hot 1980 01:48:35.560 --> 01:48:38.000 book comes out, will you come back and talk to 1981 01:48:38.079 --> 01:48:38.560 me about it? 1982 01:48:38.640 --> 01:48:43.319 Oh God, that's an easy one. Yes, all right, great 1983 01:48:43.680 --> 01:48:47.640 with enormous pleasure, fantastic some fact the new as the 1984 01:48:47.720 --> 01:48:53.199 Germans might say, Yes, with enormous coucha a lot of pleasure. Absolutely. 1985 01:48:54.359 --> 01:48:56.000 I'm due to finish it up by the end of 1986 01:48:56.000 --> 01:48:58.600 this calendar year. Let's see if I can hustle. I'm 1987 01:48:58.640 --> 01:49:00.680 doing all that. I've got to get to that finish line. 1988 01:49:00.680 --> 01:49:01.399 I got to get there. 1989 01:49:02.359 --> 01:49:04.039 Noah, thank you so much for your time. This is 1990 01:49:04.039 --> 01:49:05.319 a was such a pleasure talking with you. 1991 01:49:05.439 --> 01:49:05.680 Thank you. 1992 01:49:05.680 --> 01:49:07.760 I appreciate, I salute you. I love what you do, 1993 01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:10.239 so thank you. I feel it was a great honor 1994 01:49:10.319 --> 01:49:12.880 and a pleasure. And now I'm like a repeat offender. 1995 01:49:12.960 --> 01:49:19.119 I'm like, I'm one of the usual suspects. 1996 01:49:22.640 --> 01:49:30.079 Ingrid Bergman, Ingrid Bergman, Let's go make a picture on 1997 01:49:30.439 --> 01:49:41.359 the island of strongly, Ingrid Bergman, Ingrid Bergman, You're so purty. 1998 01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:47.640 He'd make any email quiver, You'd make five fly from 1999 01:49:47.720 --> 01:49:51.119 the creator, Ingrid Bergman. 2000 01:49:52.359 --> 01:49:55.560 Mister Rody, what brought you to write about Michael Curtiz? 2001 01:49:56.319 --> 01:50:00.560 I had written a biography of Charles McGraw with Looking 2002 01:50:00.640 --> 01:50:03.039 Back was a long time ago, and that was an 2003 01:50:03.039 --> 01:50:08.079 exercise in serhen diipity, and I was thinking about what 2004 01:50:08.119 --> 01:50:13.319 should I do next. One of my friends was Dick 2005 01:50:13.479 --> 01:50:17.439 erd Me, who came up through Warner Brothers, was one 2006 01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:22.640 of the last people standing on that, and he recommended 2007 01:50:23.000 --> 01:50:26.279 I was casting around and saying, I'm trying to think 2008 01:50:26.319 --> 01:50:30.119 of something to write about, and he said, you need 2009 01:50:30.119 --> 01:50:33.720 to write about Mike Curtiz. He was my champion. And 2010 01:50:33.760 --> 01:50:38.439 then right around the same time, McGilligan reached out to me, 2011 01:50:38.680 --> 01:50:42.079 a biographer who became a good mentor and a friend, 2012 01:50:42.760 --> 01:50:45.520 and he said, you should write something about a director. 2013 01:50:46.319 --> 01:50:49.159 Originally I thought of Jules Dason, because I had a 2014 01:50:49.159 --> 01:50:53.520 correspondence with Dason, and I not only admired his movies 2015 01:50:53.680 --> 01:50:56.720 very much, but I admired him as a person very much. 2016 01:50:56.800 --> 01:50:59.800 He was in his nineties, and we sent several letters 2017 01:50:59.800 --> 01:51:02.840 back and forth, and he would write in small font 2018 01:51:03.159 --> 01:51:08.760 in print, these detailed responses to my kind of silly 2019 01:51:08.800 --> 01:51:13.079 fanboy questions. Looking back in retrospect, but then and starting 2020 01:51:13.119 --> 01:51:15.960 to think about Julie, I would have had to spend 2021 01:51:15.960 --> 01:51:18.199 a lot of time in Greece. I would have had 2022 01:51:18.199 --> 01:51:20.039 to spend a lot of time in France, and that 2023 01:51:20.239 --> 01:51:25.439 wasn't really viable. So between those two things, I started 2024 01:51:25.680 --> 01:51:30.560 researching Michael Krtiz, and I found out that there was 2025 01:51:30.800 --> 01:51:35.800 a considerable amount of what I would call anecdotal mythology 2026 01:51:36.319 --> 01:51:38.760 about the fact that he was a tyrant on the 2027 01:51:38.880 --> 01:51:42.479 set and all these other things, but very little of 2028 01:51:42.520 --> 01:51:47.920 anything substantive other than Andrew Saris in his book dismissing 2029 01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:52.359 him Directors and Directions book that film geeks and film 2030 01:51:52.399 --> 01:51:56.439 students carried around like holy scripture during the nineteen sixties, 2031 01:51:57.279 --> 01:52:01.159 and he was dismissed by what I called the auteur 2032 01:52:01.319 --> 01:52:05.520 school of film directors, which I go into in my 2033 01:52:05.640 --> 01:52:08.720 book and take the opposite view of the autor theory. 2034 01:52:09.159 --> 01:52:11.560 But in any event, that's how it started and it 2035 01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:13.720 ended up. I was going to do something that was 2036 01:52:13.800 --> 01:52:18.119 like two hundred and seventy five pages and two years, 2037 01:52:18.159 --> 01:52:21.800 and it ended up being over seven hundred pages and 2038 01:52:21.880 --> 01:52:26.560 six years. And it took me to Hungary, to Budapest, 2039 01:52:26.760 --> 01:52:32.439 to all over the place, and I found grandchildren because 2040 01:52:32.439 --> 01:52:35.960 he had I believe four or five different children by 2041 01:52:35.960 --> 01:52:39.960 women who he was not married to, including his the 2042 01:52:40.000 --> 01:52:43.600 mother of his last child, who I think is still 2043 01:52:43.640 --> 01:52:45.640 with us, and certainly was still with us because I 2044 01:52:45.720 --> 01:52:48.520 interviewed her, and he has a daughter that's younger than me, 2045 01:52:49.119 --> 01:52:51.760 and that considering that this is a man born in 2046 01:52:51.760 --> 01:52:55.479 eighteen eighty six. So any rate, that's how it started. 2047 01:52:55.560 --> 01:52:59.560 So I would I would credit Pat McGilligan and Richard 2048 01:52:59.560 --> 01:53:03.760 and Dick and my late really good pal for steering 2049 01:53:03.800 --> 01:53:06.880 me towards Curtz. And I'm certainly in retrospect glad that 2050 01:53:06.920 --> 01:53:07.319 they did. 2051 01:53:08.000 --> 01:53:10.319 Now, I thought, you're trying to avoid traveled with the 2052 01:53:10.399 --> 01:53:12.720 Dassin book, but here you are going to Budapest and 2053 01:53:12.760 --> 01:53:14.600 all this for Curtiz. 2054 01:53:15.039 --> 01:53:18.680 That kind of dovetail, that wasn't originally planned, but then 2055 01:53:18.760 --> 01:53:22.760 I ended up going to the Portanoni Film Festival to 2056 01:53:23.039 --> 01:53:28.000 speak at what they call the Presidium about Crites before Crtz, 2057 01:53:28.159 --> 01:53:31.640 along with another author who had written a biography of 2058 01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:36.039 Curtiz in Spanish. And so what I did was I 2059 01:53:36.159 --> 01:53:40.720 dovetailed and went to Budapest first. And the trip from 2060 01:53:40.760 --> 01:53:43.439 a time travel point of view turned out to be 2061 01:53:43.479 --> 01:53:47.479 a nightmare, with canceled flights and coming back an engine 2062 01:53:47.520 --> 01:53:49.880 caught on fire and we had to land in Paris 2063 01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:53.920 and all of this relative melodrama of plane flights. But 2064 01:53:54.439 --> 01:53:56.279 I was glad that it was able to be worked 2065 01:53:56.279 --> 01:53:59.479 out because I got There is a film writer over 2066 01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:03.279 in Buddhim best named Laslow Kristen, who I befriended, who 2067 01:54:03.319 --> 01:54:05.920 was really invaluable to me because he went through one 2068 01:54:05.960 --> 01:54:09.840 hundred year old magazines and discovered that a relative of 2069 01:54:09.920 --> 01:54:13.359 Curtis was an editor of one of the movie magazines 2070 01:54:13.439 --> 01:54:18.159 during the teen years in Budapest, and Curtes was written 2071 01:54:18.199 --> 01:54:20.840 about in a lot of these magazines. In his films, 2072 01:54:20.880 --> 01:54:25.319 he practically invented the film industry in Hungary and directed 2073 01:54:25.319 --> 01:54:28.279 his first film in nineteen twelve when the director either 2074 01:54:28.319 --> 01:54:31.439 got ill or quid and so forth. And I was 2075 01:54:31.479 --> 01:54:34.920 able to go to the Cafe New York where all 2076 01:54:34.960 --> 01:54:38.319 the show biz people hung out in the studio, and 2077 01:54:38.359 --> 01:54:41.640 then I was able to go to the Hungarian Film 2078 01:54:41.760 --> 01:54:44.079 r Guide in Budapest and they had all this Curtes 2079 01:54:44.159 --> 01:54:47.399 material laid out, were very nice to me. So it 2080 01:54:47.479 --> 01:54:50.720 was a very invaluable trip from that perspective. 2081 01:54:51.399 --> 01:54:53.439 Can you tell me a little bit about his emigration, 2082 01:54:53.560 --> 01:54:57.520 because he leaves Europe a lot earlier than a lot 2083 01:54:57.520 --> 01:54:59.439 of other people who had to leave because of the 2084 01:55:00.319 --> 01:55:01.119 is coming to power. 2085 01:55:02.039 --> 01:55:05.920 He came to America originally in nineteen twenty six. He 2086 01:55:06.079 --> 01:55:12.560 was directing a film for this Austrian count Colorat, who 2087 01:55:12.600 --> 01:55:15.199 he made a lot of pictures for. He left Budapest. 2088 01:55:15.239 --> 01:55:19.800 In Hungary after the nineteen nineteen revolution, you had a 2089 01:55:19.920 --> 01:55:24.479 very short term communist regime that he was the motion 2090 01:55:24.640 --> 01:55:29.279 picture pillar of that regime, although Curtiz was notoriously apolitical. 2091 01:55:30.039 --> 01:55:34.119 But there was a counter revolution and the Nationalists took 2092 01:55:34.159 --> 01:55:36.720 over and people were being arrested, and there was a 2093 01:55:36.760 --> 01:55:39.319 colleague of as a director who was beaten to death 2094 01:55:39.680 --> 01:55:43.840 and so forth, and a lot of the Hungarians, including 2095 01:55:44.479 --> 01:55:48.880 Paul Lucas Abelle Leegosi famously said, I left there because 2096 01:55:48.880 --> 01:55:51.159 I did not want to be part of a Necktai party. 2097 01:55:51.640 --> 01:55:56.359 So Curtiz, Alexander Korda was arrested for a time, and 2098 01:55:56.399 --> 01:56:00.279 then they all ended up in Austria working for an 2099 01:56:00.279 --> 01:56:04.800 outfit called Sasha Films that was run by this count 2100 01:56:04.840 --> 01:56:11.199 Colorad who basically turned Curtiz into an early version of 2101 01:56:11.439 --> 01:56:16.720 the David o'celznik in Austra making these spectacles like Moon 2102 01:56:16.800 --> 01:56:20.840 of Israel and Sodom and Gomora before that and so forth. 2103 01:56:20.920 --> 01:56:24.319 So he was making a film in Paris with Lily 2104 01:56:24.359 --> 01:56:28.680 Demita and Harry Warner came over on a talent search 2105 01:56:28.920 --> 01:56:32.039 because Warner Brothers was starting They had started up their 2106 01:56:32.079 --> 01:56:35.640 studio and was expanding, and Harry Warner ended up on 2107 01:56:35.680 --> 01:56:38.760 the set and at first Curtiz said, who's this stranger? 2108 01:56:38.800 --> 01:56:41.239 Get him off the set, and somebody said, this is 2109 01:56:41.319 --> 01:56:44.000 mister Warner for America and he wants to talk to 2110 01:56:44.039 --> 01:56:47.720 you about coming to America. So Curtiz came to America 2111 01:56:47.840 --> 01:56:51.680 in nineteen twenty six. There's a fabulous story that he 2112 01:56:51.840 --> 01:56:54.920 came in on an ocean liner during the fourth of 2113 01:56:55.039 --> 01:56:58.520 July and all the fireworks were going off, and Harry 2114 01:56:58.560 --> 01:57:01.760 Warner met him on the pier and Curtiz said, oh, 2115 01:57:01.800 --> 01:57:04.880 you did all this for me, a celebration that everything, 2116 01:57:05.199 --> 01:57:08.800 and that was written in studio biographies and written by 2117 01:57:08.960 --> 01:57:14.079 Jack Warner in his notoriously inaccurate My First Thousand Years 2118 01:57:14.119 --> 01:57:16.920 in al How Wallace turned out, Curtiz arrived in New 2119 01:57:17.000 --> 01:57:18.920 York on June twenty six and not on the fourth 2120 01:57:18.960 --> 01:57:23.399 of July. And it's another Hollywood story, but he came 2121 01:57:23.479 --> 01:57:28.239 over to make this spectacle, Noah's Ark, and he got 2122 01:57:28.239 --> 01:57:31.399 to Hollywood, took the train. This was the four Union 2123 01:57:31.479 --> 01:57:34.479 Station was built. He ended up in the Central Station 2124 01:57:35.199 --> 01:57:39.279 and that was when Warners had their studio on Sunset Boulevard, 2125 01:57:39.399 --> 01:57:42.159 and he managed to get a street car there. Walked in. 2126 01:57:42.960 --> 01:57:46.119 Jack Warner was getting the kinks worked out on massage table, 2127 01:57:46.159 --> 01:57:48.760 and he says, I am here, I have my script 2128 01:57:48.920 --> 01:57:52.600 for Noah's Ark, and Warner looked at it, tossed it aside, 2129 01:57:52.640 --> 01:57:54.239 and he said, we're not going to do that. You're 2130 01:57:54.279 --> 01:57:57.399 going to make something called The Third Degree about America 2131 01:57:57.880 --> 01:58:01.800 crime and jurisprudence. Her taste couldn't even speak English, or 2132 01:58:01.840 --> 01:58:05.640 read English or do anything so he quickly got the 2133 01:58:05.680 --> 01:58:09.920 script translated somehow into Hungarian. He went down and talked 2134 01:58:09.920 --> 01:58:14.000 with the under sheriff and watched lineups and fingerprinting and 2135 01:58:14.079 --> 01:58:18.119 all of this procedure, and he directed the third degree. 2136 01:58:18.399 --> 01:58:21.560 Hal Moore shot it for him, and he did a 2137 01:58:21.560 --> 01:58:24.479 lot of tricks with the camera. He also incorporated all 2138 01:58:24.560 --> 01:58:27.399 this circus stuff because he had been as a kid, 2139 01:58:27.439 --> 01:58:30.880 he had been in a traveling circus back in Hungary. 2140 01:58:31.039 --> 01:58:34.560 And Jack Warner always says, he said, Curtis made two pictures, 2141 01:58:34.800 --> 01:58:37.840 a crime mystery and a circus picture which was in 2142 01:58:37.920 --> 01:58:40.520 the script, and he did a lot of things with 2143 01:58:40.600 --> 01:58:43.199 the camera because he was already a master with the camera. 2144 01:58:43.479 --> 01:58:46.800 And the film was successful, and he stayed at Warner Brothers. 2145 01:58:46.840 --> 01:58:50.359 What I did find out is his immigration status was 2146 01:58:50.439 --> 01:58:52.800 really weird, because I think he came here on a 2147 01:58:52.840 --> 01:58:55.520 WORPBZ and so on and so forth, and he didn't 2148 01:58:55.560 --> 01:58:59.800 actually become a citizen I think until like nineteen thirty six, 2149 01:59:00.079 --> 01:59:03.439 end of nineteen thirty five, and the Warners of course 2150 01:59:03.800 --> 01:59:07.199 used that to control him. There was always a sense 2151 01:59:07.319 --> 01:59:12.359 of fealty with Curtiz, and particularly Harry Warner, who he 2152 01:59:12.439 --> 01:59:15.319 felt loyal to, for bringing him to America. But that 2153 01:59:15.439 --> 01:59:18.159 was a way of keeping the leash taught. And when 2154 01:59:18.199 --> 01:59:21.479 you look at some of these early contracts that he signed, 2155 01:59:21.960 --> 01:59:24.960 I mean they even had control, like anything he thought 2156 01:59:25.000 --> 01:59:29.239 of was the property of the studio. This is incredible. 2157 01:59:29.439 --> 01:59:32.880 And if they wanted him to do anything regarding the 2158 01:59:32.920 --> 01:59:36.000 studio or a movie, including sweeping up litter on a 2159 01:59:36.079 --> 01:59:39.239 sound stage, he had to do it. These contracts back 2160 01:59:39.279 --> 01:59:42.199 in the day of the studios were really in terms 2161 01:59:42.199 --> 01:59:44.960 of intriment. But he found a home at Warner Brothers 2162 01:59:45.119 --> 01:59:47.079 and was very successful there. 2163 01:59:47.119 --> 01:59:51.479 As we all know well, he was cranking out these films, 2164 01:59:51.600 --> 01:59:54.960 three four films a year. I can't even imagine you 2165 01:59:55.079 --> 01:59:57.479 having to go through and find all of these movies, 2166 01:59:57.600 --> 01:59:59.720 much less find the time to watch all of them. 2167 02:00:00.000 --> 02:00:01.600 I under took his six years to do that. 2168 02:00:02.359 --> 02:00:05.800 Yeah. I had to also write a complete filmography, which 2169 02:00:05.840 --> 02:00:08.359 is in the back of the book, which was a 2170 02:00:08.479 --> 02:00:12.079 very laborious exercise, but I felt I needed to do this, 2171 02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:15.800 and he directed whole or in part, one hundred and 2172 02:00:15.880 --> 02:00:19.600 eighty one movies. It's just absolutely incredible. And at the 2173 02:00:19.680 --> 02:00:22.800 last minute it was brought to my attention by one 2174 02:00:22.840 --> 02:00:25.960 of my friends at the Hungarian Film Archive. When the 2175 02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:29.159 Emperor of France, Joseph died and they had a temporary 2176 02:00:29.199 --> 02:00:34.359 emperor before World War One blew up the Austrian Hungarian Empire. 2177 02:00:34.920 --> 02:00:38.560 There's the coronation of the new emperor, and they're all 2178 02:00:38.560 --> 02:00:42.239 marching in Budapest and they're filming this street, and then 2179 02:00:42.279 --> 02:00:44.560 all of a sudden you see Curtiz look around and 2180 02:00:44.600 --> 02:00:47.720 look at the camera. And so he was filming the 2181 02:00:47.720 --> 02:00:50.920 coronation of the new Emperor in Austria Hungary. So I 2182 02:00:50.920 --> 02:00:54.439 had to add that right at the end of the 2183 02:00:54.479 --> 02:00:58.000 book as a credit. And there may be I'm sure 2184 02:00:58.039 --> 02:01:02.600 there are other films that he had something involved with 2185 02:01:02.800 --> 02:01:07.239 directing that haven't surfaced, because so many of his early 2186 02:01:07.359 --> 02:01:11.439 films that he did he directed I think like upwards 2187 02:01:11.479 --> 02:01:14.800 of eighty films on the continent before he even came 2188 02:01:14.840 --> 02:01:18.079 to the United States and worked for Warner Brothers. He 2189 02:01:18.880 --> 02:01:22.600 as I said in the preface, I think paraphrasing my 2190 02:01:22.680 --> 02:01:27.520 own words, but there was a belief also considered the 2191 02:01:27.560 --> 02:01:32.520 European man's prerogative of sex was something like breathing or eating. 2192 02:01:33.159 --> 02:01:36.399 So his thing was he liked the fuck and he 2193 02:01:36.560 --> 02:01:39.640 liked the direct movies, not in that order, and he 2194 02:01:40.000 --> 02:01:42.640 liked the skeet shoot, and he was a great polo 2195 02:01:42.680 --> 02:01:46.840 player and had a great estate here in Woodland Hills, 2196 02:01:47.039 --> 02:01:50.279 actually very close by to where I live, and had 2197 02:01:50.319 --> 02:01:53.079 like a two hundred and fifty acre estate back when 2198 02:01:53.159 --> 02:01:56.800 the San Fernando Valley was a two hundred and thirty 2199 02:01:56.920 --> 02:02:02.279 square mile of Canilo feel than chicken ranches, and a 2200 02:02:02.319 --> 02:02:05.760 lot of movie star estates. And he had a polo field, 2201 02:02:05.760 --> 02:02:10.439 a skeat shooting range, a studio for his wife, bes Meredith, 2202 02:02:11.159 --> 02:02:14.640 and he married best Meredith, I think in twenty nine, 2203 02:02:15.199 --> 02:02:18.840 but they were together and he met her. I think 2204 02:02:18.880 --> 02:02:21.880 she worked on the script of The Third Degree, and 2205 02:02:21.960 --> 02:02:24.760 she was a founding member of the Motion Picture Academy. 2206 02:02:24.960 --> 02:02:28.239 She wrote the scenario for The Silent Ben Herb. So 2207 02:02:28.359 --> 02:02:30.720 she started out to be a lot more well known 2208 02:02:30.760 --> 02:02:35.000 in the American film community than Michael Curtiz, and their 2209 02:02:35.039 --> 02:02:39.000 marriage endured. It was far from a conventional marriage. It 2210 02:02:39.079 --> 02:02:42.520 was more of a professional partnership. And one of the 2211 02:02:42.560 --> 02:02:44.960 things I do bring out in the book is that 2212 02:02:45.239 --> 02:02:48.880 Michael Curtiz's career would not have been the same without her, 2213 02:02:49.479 --> 02:02:54.039 because her council on studio politics, on scripts and so 2214 02:02:54.079 --> 02:02:57.279 on and so forth, particularly during the early years, was 2215 02:02:57.359 --> 02:02:59.359 invaluable and really shaped his career. 2216 02:03:00.520 --> 02:03:03.119 You've mentioned where you're at, and I'm over here in Detroit. 2217 02:03:03.199 --> 02:03:06.479 And with Detroit we had The Black Legion. And I 2218 02:03:06.520 --> 02:03:11.119 think I've read that Tea's directed part of The Black Legion. 2219 02:03:11.199 --> 02:03:12.600 What does the story with that if. 2220 02:03:12.520 --> 02:03:16.439 You remember, Yeah, he directed the courtroom scenes and boat 2221 02:03:16.600 --> 02:03:19.199 art in jail at the end of that movie. And 2222 02:03:20.199 --> 02:03:24.039 the director of that, yeah, Archie mails that Black Legion 2223 02:03:24.199 --> 02:03:27.039 was such a controversial film that I found a memo 2224 02:03:27.199 --> 02:03:31.600 from the executive producer Hal Wallace to Archie Mail saying, Hey, 2225 02:03:31.720 --> 02:03:34.560 this is very controversial. If you don't want your name 2226 02:03:34.640 --> 02:03:38.159 on the film, let me know. And so what would 2227 02:03:38.199 --> 02:03:41.439 happen is Curtis was really the Swiss Army Knife of 2228 02:03:41.760 --> 02:03:45.920 directors at Water Brothers. So when someone would go on vacation, 2229 02:03:46.359 --> 02:03:48.760 someone would get sick, or they'd have to go back 2230 02:03:48.800 --> 02:03:52.640 and do retakes, Curtines was always there, willing to work. 2231 02:03:52.680 --> 02:03:56.960 He never said no, and so he directed the courtroom scenes. 2232 02:03:57.279 --> 02:04:00.600 At the end of the climax of that were Buguard 2233 02:04:00.720 --> 02:04:03.760 and the whole Black Legion gang is brought in. And 2234 02:04:04.000 --> 02:04:07.119 I can't remember whether it's either seems like all those movies, 2235 02:04:07.159 --> 02:04:09.920 the judge was either Samuel S. Hines or Henry O'Neal 2236 02:04:10.000 --> 02:04:13.000 as the district attorney. But at the end and then 2237 02:04:13.079 --> 02:04:18.520 Bogart is in his cell regretting everything that transpired during 2238 02:04:18.600 --> 02:04:21.000 the balance of the film, and so on and so forth, 2239 02:04:21.399 --> 02:04:24.760 and you had a nice, tidy, happy ending. But I 2240 02:04:24.840 --> 02:04:27.079 do have to say that the Warner Brothers were the 2241 02:04:27.119 --> 02:04:30.239 only studio that would make a film like that during 2242 02:04:30.279 --> 02:04:34.359 those days, and of course scrupulously there had no mention 2243 02:04:34.560 --> 02:04:38.119 of although it was a kate k thing, it was 2244 02:04:38.159 --> 02:04:42.079 all aimed at foreigners. You didn't see anybody of color 2245 02:04:42.479 --> 02:04:45.199 in a movie at Warner Brothers in nineteen thirty seven 2246 02:04:45.279 --> 02:04:49.560 unless they were doing something racially stereotypical, like shining shoes 2247 02:04:49.680 --> 02:04:53.039 or something like that. But taking that in the context 2248 02:04:53.119 --> 02:04:56.680 of its time, Warner Brothers was the first studio to 2249 02:04:56.760 --> 02:05:00.520 come out for square against the Nazis during the nineteenth thirties, 2250 02:05:01.039 --> 02:05:04.119 and this was when LB Mayer was giving Goebels staff 2251 02:05:04.199 --> 02:05:07.720 tours of MGM because the other studios did not want 2252 02:05:07.760 --> 02:05:11.000 to lose the German marketing. And in fact, the last 2253 02:05:11.079 --> 02:05:14.600 Warner Brothers film that was shown in Germany until the 2254 02:05:14.640 --> 02:05:17.800 war ended. Was I was a fugitive from a chain gang, 2255 02:05:17.800 --> 02:05:19.399 which was made in nineteen thirty two. 2256 02:05:20.560 --> 02:05:22.920 Nineteen forty two. It seems like it was a huge 2257 02:05:23.000 --> 02:05:26.800 year for Curtiz, just with obviously Casablanca, which I would 2258 02:05:26.840 --> 02:05:28.439 like to talk a little bit more about, but of 2259 02:05:28.479 --> 02:05:32.800 course Yankee Doodle Dandy. I freaking love Yankee Doodle Dandy, 2260 02:05:32.840 --> 02:05:35.239 and what a different You couldn't get two more different 2261 02:05:35.239 --> 02:05:37.720 films from Casablanca and Yankee Doodle Dandy. 2262 02:05:38.399 --> 02:05:41.520 Yeah, and don't forget Captains of the Clouds exactly. Those 2263 02:05:41.520 --> 02:05:45.000 were the three pictures those years. But I think Yankee 2264 02:05:45.039 --> 02:05:49.920 Doodle Dandy, starting with that was the happiest time he 2265 02:05:50.000 --> 02:05:53.119 ever had a Warner Brothers for a variety of reasons. 2266 02:05:53.640 --> 02:05:58.199 Number one, Curtiz was a very patriotic American, and one 2267 02:05:58.239 --> 02:06:02.560 should be aware that this was somebody who was Jewish 2268 02:06:03.039 --> 02:06:06.680 that grew up under being governed by an emperor. I'll 2269 02:06:06.680 --> 02:06:11.439 think about that, and had experienced anti Semitism. At the 2270 02:06:11.520 --> 02:06:15.840 time of Yankee Doodle Dandy, he was trying to get 2271 02:06:16.000 --> 02:06:19.760 his mother and two of his brothers out of Hungary. 2272 02:06:20.439 --> 02:06:24.039 He was very patriotic about America and it was a 2273 02:06:24.199 --> 02:06:28.760 very genuine feeling. And I think part of Yankee Doodle Dandy, 2274 02:06:28.880 --> 02:06:33.520 where Cagney is George M. Cohan is touring in Baudeville 2275 02:06:34.079 --> 02:06:37.600 with his parents. My father, thanks you, my mother, thanks you. 2276 02:06:37.720 --> 02:06:40.159 All of that took Kurt back to his days of 2277 02:06:40.319 --> 02:06:44.680 touring in the provinces in Austria Hungary with a theatrical group. 2278 02:06:45.199 --> 02:06:49.640 Although he could be very tough on concertain actor Jersey, 2279 02:06:49.840 --> 02:06:55.079 he was also a very sentimental, emotional person. Cagney had 2280 02:06:55.159 --> 02:06:58.640 become a major star. Going back to Public Enemy in 2281 02:06:58.720 --> 02:07:02.960 nineteen thirty one, there was a series of quarrels that 2282 02:07:03.039 --> 02:07:06.960 he had with Jack Warner. Cagney grew up in New York. 2283 02:07:07.039 --> 02:07:10.079 He spoke fluent Yiddish and his name for Jack Warner 2284 02:07:10.239 --> 02:07:14.119 was the swonse. I will let your audience translate that word. 2285 02:07:14.800 --> 02:07:19.600 But there was a series of suspensions lawsuits. Cagney left 2286 02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:23.000 for a while and made pictures with an independent studio, 2287 02:07:23.159 --> 02:07:26.439 but since the major studios had distribution and had their 2288 02:07:26.479 --> 02:07:30.279 theater change locked up, they really didn't do much. So 2289 02:07:30.560 --> 02:07:33.920 Jack Warner ended up wanting him back because his pictures 2290 02:07:34.039 --> 02:07:36.800 in Cagney. This was the star system and Cagney was 2291 02:07:37.000 --> 02:07:40.399 money in the Bank. So in nineteen thirty eight, Cagney 2292 02:07:40.479 --> 02:07:43.720 returned for the second time to Warner Brothers, and he 2293 02:07:43.760 --> 02:07:47.439 had quite a contract where he had his brother as 2294 02:07:47.520 --> 02:07:51.760 associate producer under Wallace, he had script approval a lot 2295 02:07:51.760 --> 02:07:55.000 of things, and he also had what was then revolutionary 2296 02:07:55.079 --> 02:07:58.479 called a happiness clause, where if he was unhappy, he 2297 02:07:58.479 --> 02:08:02.640 could just declare his contract null and voidn't leave. So 2298 02:08:02.840 --> 02:08:06.199 nobody really had that power that Cagney had in nineteen 2299 02:08:06.239 --> 02:08:10.960 thirty eight. And when he made Yankee Doodle Dandy, Curtiz 2300 02:08:11.119 --> 02:08:14.640 was directing, and by that time they had worked together 2301 02:08:15.319 --> 02:08:19.439 on several films, and Curtes knew better than to try 2302 02:08:19.439 --> 02:08:22.640 to tell James Cagney how to act. And James Cagney 2303 02:08:22.720 --> 02:08:25.640 was not going to tell Curtiz how to block off 2304 02:08:25.680 --> 02:08:29.720 the scene and move the camera or construct sets or 2305 02:08:29.760 --> 02:08:32.960 any of that stuff. So they were very simpatico, and 2306 02:08:33.039 --> 02:08:36.680 of course Cagney didn't take any crap off Curtiz. In fact, 2307 02:08:36.760 --> 02:08:41.319 then he told John mccaid for he said, he said, 2308 02:08:41.399 --> 02:08:43.560 Mike didn't know how to treat actors, but he sure 2309 02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:45.399 as hell knew how to treat a camera, and he 2310 02:08:45.479 --> 02:08:49.600 couldn't need photograph and do everything with a camera that 2311 02:08:49.720 --> 02:08:51.359 needed to be done, and if you got through a 2312 02:08:51.399 --> 02:08:53.199 picture with him, you knew it was going to be 2313 02:08:53.279 --> 02:08:56.159 well done. But he didn't know how to treat actors, 2314 02:08:56.239 --> 02:08:58.920 but he knew how to treat me, because if he didn't, 2315 02:08:58.960 --> 02:09:01.720 he knew I'd knock him on ass. That was cagnate. 2316 02:09:02.199 --> 02:09:04.760 But so they got along, and you had Jimmy Howe 2317 02:09:04.840 --> 02:09:09.520 behind the camera and so forth, and Wallace started. Wallace 2318 02:09:09.680 --> 02:09:12.119 was a great producer, there's no one of the great 2319 02:09:12.159 --> 02:09:16.159 Hollywood producers. But he was a micromanager to the extreme. 2320 02:09:16.479 --> 02:09:19.800 And the Cagney and his brother Bill really resented how 2321 02:09:19.880 --> 02:09:23.079 Wallace because they saw him as a front office shill 2322 02:09:23.199 --> 02:09:28.000 for Jack Warner and meddling and micromanaging, and they started, this, 2323 02:09:28.119 --> 02:09:29.920 are you going to use a horse in this scene? 2324 02:09:29.920 --> 02:09:32.520 And I think you should do this. So Cagney just said, 2325 02:09:32.560 --> 02:09:34.439 I think after this picture's over, I'm going to leave 2326 02:09:34.479 --> 02:09:38.640 Warner brothers. And so Wallace and Warner backed off, and 2327 02:09:38.680 --> 02:09:41.880 they essentially let James Cagney and Michael Cartiz make the 2328 02:09:41.920 --> 02:09:45.840 picture and left them alone. And one of the great 2329 02:09:45.880 --> 02:09:50.279 stories about Yankee Doodle Dandy is the first day of 2330 02:09:50.359 --> 02:09:54.960 shooting was December eighth, nineteen forty one, the day after 2331 02:09:55.039 --> 02:09:59.840 Pearl Harbor and Joan said that they were all gathered 2332 02:10:00.039 --> 02:10:06.079 around the radio on the soundstage, Walter Houston, Gene Cagney, Joan, etc. 2333 02:10:06.600 --> 02:10:11.319 Listening to President Roosevelt's speech to Congress asking for a 2334 02:10:11.359 --> 02:10:14.960 declaration of war and the famous Day of Infamy speech, 2335 02:10:15.039 --> 02:10:20.279 and then Cagney and Curtiz walk in and Cagney said, 2336 02:10:20.439 --> 02:10:22.399 I think we should turn that radio off. I think 2337 02:10:22.399 --> 02:10:25.119 a prayer goes in here, and everyone there was a 2338 02:10:25.159 --> 02:10:28.640 moment of silence, and then Critiz said, well, boys and girls, 2339 02:10:28.960 --> 02:10:33.119 we have very sad times, very troubled times, so we 2340 02:10:33.239 --> 02:10:36.560 do have a great story to tell, so let us 2341 02:10:36.560 --> 02:10:40.079 make this movie. And so they did with that, Yankee 2342 02:10:40.119 --> 02:10:43.039 Doodle Dandy became one of the biggest hits in the 2343 02:10:43.119 --> 02:10:46.760 history of Warner Brothers. It won Cagney as Oscar. I 2344 02:10:46.800 --> 02:10:50.439 think Curtiz was nominated and didn't win for Best Director. 2345 02:10:50.479 --> 02:10:56.199 He was nominated for Four Daughters, Captain Blood, Four Daughters, 2346 02:10:56.800 --> 02:11:01.479 Angels with Dirty Faces and as he said, always the bride'smaid, 2347 02:11:01.600 --> 02:11:07.159 never the mother, and winning the Oscar so in any event, 2348 02:11:07.479 --> 02:11:11.520 then came Casablanca after that, which is a film that's 2349 02:11:11.560 --> 02:11:14.880 been written about, and I gave it its own chapter 2350 02:11:15.000 --> 02:11:19.439 in about forty odd pages, and I called it Fundamental Things. 2351 02:11:19.920 --> 02:11:23.640 And I tried to write and discuss Cosa Blanca from 2352 02:11:23.640 --> 02:11:27.399 the perspective of Michael Curtiz and what he did with 2353 02:11:27.560 --> 02:11:28.439 that film. 2354 02:11:29.199 --> 02:11:31.680 Yeah, I'm curious what his experience was on there, because 2355 02:11:32.319 --> 02:11:35.000 I think a lot of people give a lot of 2356 02:11:35.039 --> 02:11:37.159 credit to Hal Wallace. A lot of people then try 2357 02:11:37.159 --> 02:11:39.600 to spread out the credit to the whole ensemble that 2358 02:11:39.640 --> 02:11:41.800 comes together. And I'm curious what your take is as 2359 02:11:41.800 --> 02:11:45.279 far as what Purtiz's role was in the success of Casablanca. 2360 02:11:46.199 --> 02:11:48.880 There's a couple of things that he did that were significant. 2361 02:11:49.199 --> 02:11:52.319 One of the things he did was insist that there 2362 02:11:52.399 --> 02:11:57.920 was a basis for rit blame Humphrey Bogart's going off 2363 02:11:57.960 --> 02:12:02.800 the rails when Ingrid bergmanship, because there was no basis 2364 02:12:02.840 --> 02:12:06.720 in the original script for the love story. And he 2365 02:12:06.880 --> 02:12:10.960 was the one that insisted that the love story include 2366 02:12:11.000 --> 02:12:14.199 the flashback and when they were in Paris and the 2367 02:12:14.319 --> 02:12:18.520 Champagne being opened and all of that other business. One 2368 02:12:18.600 --> 02:12:21.880 of the other things Curtiz did is he insisted on 2369 02:12:22.159 --> 02:12:29.000 casting his fellow countryman SZ cuddles Zacal whose real name 2370 02:12:29.119 --> 02:12:32.039 was Jacob Garro, and he was a Hungarian music hall 2371 02:12:32.159 --> 02:12:36.239 comedian an actor and they knew each other from way 2372 02:12:36.239 --> 02:12:40.640 way back in the day, back in Budapest, and he 2373 02:12:41.000 --> 02:12:45.600 really created Zcal's humor. He thought that Zakal, as Carl 2374 02:12:46.159 --> 02:12:49.640 the manager of Rix, would add that to the film, 2375 02:12:49.720 --> 02:12:53.399 and he was absolutely right. And it turned into, as usual, 2376 02:12:53.479 --> 02:12:57.319 a financial deal because Sekal was asking for more money 2377 02:12:58.000 --> 02:13:01.039 than how Wallace was willing to pay him, and so 2378 02:13:01.119 --> 02:13:03.520 he essentially said, if you want ce Cow, you're going 2379 02:13:03.560 --> 02:13:06.199 to have to convince him to take less. And so 2380 02:13:06.439 --> 02:13:10.640 Curtiz got involved in that situation and mollified Wallace and 2381 02:13:10.680 --> 02:13:14.640 mollified the Cows. And if you watch the movie, Zakal 2382 02:13:14.800 --> 02:13:18.520 has one of the major parts aside from the principles 2383 02:13:18.600 --> 02:13:22.479 in the movie, and his humor does lighten things out, 2384 02:13:22.560 --> 02:13:26.119 and so that was important. Of course, Curtiza's worked with 2385 02:13:26.199 --> 02:13:30.000 the camera with the flashback, with the smoke of the cigarette, 2386 02:13:30.399 --> 02:13:33.920 the ending when vishy water gets tossed in the trash tents, 2387 02:13:34.279 --> 02:13:37.159 and just that opening scene when they go into Rix, 2388 02:13:37.520 --> 02:13:40.399 and that long tracking shot and you see this what 2389 02:13:40.479 --> 02:13:43.840 I call the choreography of bustle, and then all the 2390 02:13:43.960 --> 02:13:48.319 character actors going from table to table trying to figure 2391 02:13:48.319 --> 02:13:51.840 out how to get out of Casa Blanco, all these 2392 02:13:51.880 --> 02:13:56.800 European refugees. And the amazing thing was or not so amazing, 2393 02:13:57.079 --> 02:13:59.720 was that most of these people that played these small 2394 02:13:59.720 --> 02:14:04.680 bits parts were Jewish refugees and they were personally cast 2395 02:14:04.720 --> 02:14:07.920 by Curtiz. So when you see the scene of La 2396 02:14:08.119 --> 02:14:12.279 Marseille and people crying, Dan Seymour, who was the massive 2397 02:14:12.399 --> 02:14:15.640 character actor, who was the doorman going into the casino, 2398 02:14:16.199 --> 02:14:18.439 who ended up being used in a lot of Fritz 2399 02:14:18.520 --> 02:14:22.279 Lang's movies and ended up being Fritz Lang's estate executor. 2400 02:14:22.359 --> 02:14:25.279 Believe it or not, dan Seymour said, he looked around 2401 02:14:25.359 --> 02:14:29.039 and he said, those tears were legitimate with people. And 2402 02:14:29.199 --> 02:14:32.039 I go into a lot of detail about the different people, 2403 02:14:32.680 --> 02:14:37.159 Mister and missus Lutsch tag Elka Groening was a refugee 2404 02:14:37.159 --> 02:14:41.159 from that and Ludwig Stussel, who was distantly related to me, 2405 02:14:41.600 --> 02:14:44.479 who ended up doing commercials in the nineteen sixties for 2406 02:14:44.560 --> 02:14:48.439 Italian Swiss colony wine wearing Leat knows that little old 2407 02:14:48.479 --> 02:14:53.479 winemaker me. Curtiz cast all these people, and also for 2408 02:14:53.560 --> 02:14:57.119 someone who was supposed to be notoriously hard hearted. One 2409 02:14:57.159 --> 02:15:00.439 of the teamsters that knew if a colleague of mine 2410 02:15:00.840 --> 02:15:04.560 who worked there for years, said Curtiz would always hire 2411 02:15:05.319 --> 02:15:09.359 all these bid actors and extras, particularly during Christmas, to 2412 02:15:09.439 --> 02:15:11.359 make sure that they got paid and they got some 2413 02:15:11.479 --> 02:15:14.439 Christmas money, and so on and so forth. And if 2414 02:15:14.479 --> 02:15:17.840 you look through the production files on Cosa Blanca, Wallace 2415 02:15:17.920 --> 02:15:21.079 was always trying to get him to let certain actors 2416 02:15:21.119 --> 02:15:23.640 go so they wouldn't have to keep paying them. And 2417 02:15:23.720 --> 02:15:26.920 Curtiz would always connive to keep people on the payroll 2418 02:15:27.319 --> 02:15:30.079 as long as possible. And in fact, I think that 2419 02:15:30.239 --> 02:15:33.199 he had Sydney green Street there for a long period 2420 02:15:33.279 --> 02:15:35.880 of time, and Sydney green Street was getting almost three 2421 02:15:35.920 --> 02:15:38.840 thousand dollars a week. He was very well paid. And 2422 02:15:38.880 --> 02:15:42.479 of course Wallace would get apoplectic. Wallace could squeeze a 2423 02:15:42.560 --> 02:15:45.680 nickel hard enough to make the buffalo collapse in the crowd. 2424 02:15:46.119 --> 02:15:49.439 Cosablanca would not be what it became and what it 2425 02:15:49.560 --> 02:15:55.000 still is without Michael Curtiz and Julius Epstein. The Epstein's 2426 02:15:55.239 --> 02:15:59.319 and Howard Kotch wrote the Balance of the script, said 2427 02:15:59.319 --> 02:16:02.119 that he wished he could have recorded some of the 2428 02:16:02.159 --> 02:16:06.359 script conferences where Curtiz would say, oh, you know, and 2429 02:16:06.399 --> 02:16:08.279 then he scratched his head and he says, oh, I 2430 02:16:08.319 --> 02:16:11.119 forgot what Beskie told me last night. In other words, 2431 02:16:11.119 --> 02:16:13.439 he was going over the script with best Meredith and 2432 02:16:13.479 --> 02:16:15.239 she told him something and he had to try to 2433 02:16:15.279 --> 02:16:17.720 remember what he was told and so on and so forth. 2434 02:16:18.159 --> 02:16:21.680 But yeah, he was that. And Curtiz always gave credit 2435 02:16:21.720 --> 02:16:25.800 to Hal Wallace for Casa Blanca because the script was 2436 02:16:25.800 --> 02:16:28.359 a work in progress during the movie, which is not 2437 02:16:28.600 --> 02:16:32.680 the way how Wallace and Warner Brothers and Curtiz liked 2438 02:16:32.680 --> 02:16:35.319 to make movies, but that was how it happened. And 2439 02:16:36.120 --> 02:16:40.440 one of the interesting things is the ending of Casa Blanca, 2440 02:16:40.639 --> 02:16:43.479 where who is ingwd Bergmann going to go away with 2441 02:16:43.559 --> 02:16:46.000 and so on and so forth. And Bergman always said, 2442 02:16:46.079 --> 02:16:47.959 I didn't know whether I was going to stay with 2443 02:16:48.079 --> 02:16:52.520 Bogar or leave with Paul Henry, her husband. She probably 2444 02:16:52.559 --> 02:16:55.760 believed that, but there was no way that she was 2445 02:16:55.799 --> 02:16:58.639 going to abandon her noble husband to go off with 2446 02:16:58.680 --> 02:17:02.280 her boyfriend who was a bartender. That wasn't going to 2447 02:17:02.319 --> 02:17:05.120 happen in terms of the censor's office, in terms of 2448 02:17:05.200 --> 02:17:08.040 the audience, in terms of anything. So it was like, 2449 02:17:08.440 --> 02:17:10.959 how are we going to make sure that she goes 2450 02:17:11.000 --> 02:17:14.399 away with her husband? And on the last day of 2451 02:17:14.479 --> 02:17:18.879 that there was a violent argument between Humphrey Bogart and Kurtiz, 2452 02:17:19.719 --> 02:17:22.159 so much so that how Wallace had to come down 2453 02:17:22.200 --> 02:17:26.840 to the set to arbitrary. And Wallace rarely visited the 2454 02:17:26.879 --> 02:17:28.760 set of his movies. I think he had three or 2455 02:17:28.799 --> 02:17:31.719 four movies in production at the same time, so he 2456 02:17:31.760 --> 02:17:33.920 didn't have time to go down to the set and 2457 02:17:34.200 --> 02:17:37.079 hold hands with directors or actors or any of that. 2458 02:17:37.600 --> 02:17:41.000 But he had to go with this, and what actually 2459 02:17:41.040 --> 02:17:46.239 transpired has been lost to history. Kurtiz's last significant other 2460 02:17:46.479 --> 02:17:48.840 told me that it was about how the scene was 2461 02:17:48.879 --> 02:17:52.879 to be played. Also, Bogart did have a habit that 2462 02:17:53.079 --> 02:17:55.719 was revealed later on of where he would come in 2463 02:17:55.760 --> 02:17:59.200 the morning and not know his lines, so he would 2464 02:17:59.239 --> 02:18:01.639 stall around to come up with some reason where he 2465 02:18:01.680 --> 02:18:04.399 could take some more extra time to learn his lines. 2466 02:18:04.639 --> 02:18:07.840 Maybe that was the reason, we don't know, but eventually 2467 02:18:08.319 --> 02:18:12.440 the argument was settled. And the whole thing about doing 2468 02:18:12.520 --> 02:18:16.159 the greater good by staying with her husband and you're 2469 02:18:16.200 --> 02:18:18.639 the person that keeps them going, and his work and 2470 02:18:18.719 --> 02:18:22.360 the war and the problems of two little people don't 2471 02:18:22.360 --> 02:18:24.639 amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world, 2472 02:18:25.000 --> 02:18:27.360 and that was the perfect coda, and they came up 2473 02:18:27.399 --> 02:18:29.719 with the right way to end the movie. 2474 02:18:30.360 --> 02:18:33.040 Apparently they managed to patch it up or whatever, because 2475 02:18:33.040 --> 02:18:36.639 I know they worked again pretty soon thereafter with pastors 2476 02:18:36.680 --> 02:18:37.479 to Marseille. 2477 02:18:38.239 --> 02:18:42.760 Bogart was not loved, but he was definitely respected. And 2478 02:18:42.840 --> 02:18:46.559 when Bogart signed his last contract with Warner Brothers in 2479 02:18:46.639 --> 02:18:51.159 forty six, his contract specified these are the directors who 2480 02:18:51.239 --> 02:18:55.440 can direct me, and I believe that list was John Houston, 2481 02:18:55.559 --> 02:19:01.520 of course, Delmer Daves, John Cromwell and Michael Curtise and 2482 02:19:01.639 --> 02:19:06.319 John Promo went back to directing Bogart on Broadway back 2483 02:19:06.360 --> 02:19:08.520 in his early days, and they were friends, and John 2484 02:19:08.559 --> 02:19:12.440 Cromwell was a good director, was Warner Brothers top director. 2485 02:19:12.600 --> 02:19:16.319 So Bogart was not going to do that. But Bogart 2486 02:19:16.399 --> 02:19:21.000 did not like the way Curtiz could be mean to 2487 02:19:21.120 --> 02:19:24.840 quote unquote the little people and be dismissive, and sometimes 2488 02:19:24.840 --> 02:19:27.360 he would use big players as a way to vent 2489 02:19:27.440 --> 02:19:30.799 pressure because the pressure that he was put under by 2490 02:19:30.879 --> 02:19:36.360 Wallace and Jack Warner. Jack Warner, I think his contribution 2491 02:19:36.559 --> 02:19:39.360 to the pictures he made during the nineteen forties could 2492 02:19:39.360 --> 02:19:42.399 be summed up in two words, and those are hurry up, 2493 02:19:42.840 --> 02:19:45.559 you're shooting too many angles? Why are you taking so long? 2494 02:19:45.639 --> 02:19:48.719 Why are you doing this? And before every movie he 2495 02:19:48.760 --> 02:19:51.239 would send the letter, oh, I know this is going 2496 02:19:51.319 --> 02:19:53.959 to be a bigger hip than the last one. And 2497 02:19:54.200 --> 02:19:56.879 the pressure that was under for the most part, he 2498 02:19:57.000 --> 02:20:00.000 sloughed it off. But one of the things I found 2499 02:20:00.120 --> 02:20:04.440 in writing this book was that you had people previously 2500 02:20:04.959 --> 02:20:08.840 wrote off Curtiz as a vocational mechanic of the studio system. 2501 02:20:08.920 --> 02:20:12.000 We just shot the script. And by the contrary, he 2502 02:20:12.040 --> 02:20:16.239 would agree with Wallace to do whatever Wallace wanted. Then 2503 02:20:16.280 --> 02:20:19.239 he'd go down to the set, he drop or change dialogue, 2504 02:20:19.319 --> 02:20:23.520 try to add sets, change wardrobe, and he, particularly in 2505 02:20:23.600 --> 02:20:26.719 the thirties, drove Wallace round the bend with some of 2506 02:20:26.760 --> 02:20:32.399 these the tuper production memos, particularly during Captain Blood and 2507 02:20:32.639 --> 02:20:35.239 Charge of the Light Brigade. Wallace almost fired him off 2508 02:20:35.319 --> 02:20:38.639 of that because he would Curtes would do whatever Wallace 2509 02:20:38.680 --> 02:20:42.079 wanted to see clean lines of soldiers and arrow Flynn 2510 02:20:42.120 --> 02:20:46.120 in his uniform, and Curtiz was using four ground pieces 2511 02:20:46.159 --> 02:20:49.639 of a water wheel turning and all of this. You 2512 02:20:49.680 --> 02:20:52.799 know what I would call artsy FARTSI stuff, and he 2513 02:20:52.879 --> 02:20:56.680 and Wallace really bumped heads, but they came to an accommodation, 2514 02:20:57.360 --> 02:21:00.360 and as it turned down, Wallace and Curtis became very 2515 02:21:00.399 --> 02:21:04.760 close friends because they were both totally the OCD, obsessive, 2516 02:21:04.840 --> 02:21:09.719 compulsive people about movie making, and they shared that. And 2517 02:21:10.159 --> 02:21:14.799 they also loved horses, and Critiz kept Wallace's horse, Freckles, 2518 02:21:14.840 --> 02:21:17.639 out at his ranch and they went riding together and 2519 02:21:17.680 --> 02:21:21.319 so forth, and they became very close. And in fact, 2520 02:21:21.399 --> 02:21:25.600 near the end of his career in the seventies, Wallace 2521 02:21:26.079 --> 02:21:30.000 was a guest at AFI where young filmmakers they'd have 2522 02:21:30.200 --> 02:21:33.000 people like Billy Weiler and Wallace so forth to come 2523 02:21:33.040 --> 02:21:36.959 into the students and somebody said to Wallace, you didn't 2524 02:21:37.000 --> 02:21:41.040 have very many great directors and Warner brothers like Curtiz, 2525 02:21:41.120 --> 02:21:43.680 and Wallace got pissed off and he said, I don't 2526 02:21:43.680 --> 02:21:46.040 think you know what you're talking about. Michael Curtiz was 2527 02:21:46.079 --> 02:21:49.559 one of the great directors, and it stole him because 2528 02:21:49.959 --> 02:21:54.440 Al Wallace's legacy as a producer was tied to Curtiz's 2529 02:21:54.959 --> 02:21:57.959 legacy as a director. They were, as I wrote, they 2530 02:21:57.959 --> 02:22:00.120 were the yin and yang of Warner Bay. 2531 02:22:00.600 --> 02:22:03.360 You watched all of these movies, and we talked a 2532 02:22:03.360 --> 02:22:06.520 little bit about the autur theory at the beginning. What 2533 02:22:06.639 --> 02:22:10.079 were those patterns and those shots and things you already mentioned, 2534 02:22:10.079 --> 02:22:12.159 like the waterwheel on the foreground. I did notice a 2535 02:22:12.159 --> 02:22:15.600 lot of foreground background things, even just in Casablanca, the 2536 02:22:15.719 --> 02:22:18.159 moving camera. What are those things that you saw that 2537 02:22:18.239 --> 02:22:20.639 he would like to employ during his films. 2538 02:22:21.280 --> 02:22:25.399 He loved subtlety, and he liked to move the camera, 2539 02:22:25.559 --> 02:22:27.959 but he didn't do it for the camera's sake. He 2540 02:22:28.000 --> 02:22:31.559 did it for the story's sake. If you watch Purtiz's movie, 2541 02:22:31.600 --> 02:22:34.360 the use of mirror, so many movies there's always one 2542 02:22:34.399 --> 02:22:38.159 shot where someone that moves and you see something take 2543 02:22:38.200 --> 02:22:40.959 place in a mirror and then it switches. But he 2544 02:22:41.120 --> 02:22:43.879 was not a meat and potatoes guy. In fact, Curtiz 2545 02:22:44.079 --> 02:22:47.319 was in his part where he was an artistic man. 2546 02:22:47.399 --> 02:22:50.719 And in fact, Jimmy Leighton who was in Life with 2547 02:22:50.879 --> 02:22:55.040 Father and I think he was the one courting Elizabeth Taylor. 2548 02:22:55.159 --> 02:22:58.840 He said, Mike arranged every camera setup. He said, the 2549 02:22:58.920 --> 02:23:02.440 dop didn't do it, Mike did it. You know, he 2550 02:23:02.600 --> 02:23:05.559 arranged all the camera setups and so on and so forth. 2551 02:23:06.159 --> 02:23:11.520 He knew instinctively because he was an actor. He started 2552 02:23:11.559 --> 02:23:15.879 out as an actor in Budapest, and he understood acting 2553 02:23:15.959 --> 02:23:18.000 and so on and so forth. What he didn't have 2554 02:23:18.120 --> 02:23:21.959 patience with is prima donnas. Again, he didn't get along 2555 02:23:21.959 --> 02:23:25.159 with Betty Davis at all because Betty Davis, they called 2556 02:23:25.200 --> 02:23:29.559 her the fourth Warner brother, and Betty Davis was about 2557 02:23:29.600 --> 02:23:31.719 Betty Davis in a lot of cases. She was a 2558 02:23:31.719 --> 02:23:35.760 great actor, but she always felt, Curtis isn't paying enough 2559 02:23:35.760 --> 02:23:38.680 attention to me, He's paying too much attention to the 2560 02:23:38.760 --> 02:23:43.120 camera and so forth. And when he directed Joan Crawford 2561 02:23:43.120 --> 02:23:45.479 and Mildred Pierce that she went on the Oscar for 2562 02:23:46.000 --> 02:23:49.040 and it broke her down because he viewed her as 2563 02:23:49.120 --> 02:23:53.399 a poor substitute for Barbara Stanwick, who he wanted, and 2564 02:23:53.520 --> 02:23:56.879 he thought that she was an MGM pretty girl with 2565 02:23:57.000 --> 02:24:00.520 shoulder pads and everything. And as Crawford said, he gave 2566 02:24:00.520 --> 02:24:04.200 me a postgraduate course in humiliation and then he started 2567 02:24:04.200 --> 02:24:08.399 training me, and she ended up becoming very loyal and 2568 02:24:08.559 --> 02:24:11.760 very appreciative of him because he knew what he was doing. 2569 02:24:12.319 --> 02:24:14.200 He knew what he was doing, and he ended up 2570 02:24:14.559 --> 02:24:18.959 respecting Crawford a lot because Crawford was about making the 2571 02:24:19.040 --> 02:24:22.440 picture better, not just making herself better, a key difference 2572 02:24:22.520 --> 02:24:27.920 between say Bert Lancaster and Kirk Douglas back in their day. 2573 02:24:28.479 --> 02:24:31.719 So he did things with the camera. He did inventive 2574 02:24:31.879 --> 02:24:35.239 things like if you watch The Breaking Point, which I 2575 02:24:35.280 --> 02:24:39.079 think is his greatest post World War Two movie after 2576 02:24:39.200 --> 02:24:42.600 nineteen forty five, and the ending of the Breaking Point 2577 02:24:42.799 --> 02:24:46.280 where you have Wana Hornazz's son by himself and the 2578 02:24:46.319 --> 02:24:49.280 pier looking for a father who he doesn't know has 2579 02:24:49.319 --> 02:24:53.200 been murdered, and how the crane shot pulls back. I mean, 2580 02:24:53.239 --> 02:24:56.840 that ending would make a stone cry. It's just unbelievable. 2581 02:24:56.959 --> 02:25:00.000 So he knew actors, he knew what to get from 2582 02:25:00.079 --> 02:25:02.559 a script. He could take a bad script and make 2583 02:25:02.600 --> 02:25:05.079 it better, which I think is the sign of a 2584 02:25:05.120 --> 02:25:08.639 great director. But he made so many movies, not all 2585 02:25:08.680 --> 02:25:11.680 of them can be great movie. He was particularly in 2586 02:25:11.760 --> 02:25:14.159 Warner Brothers in the twenties and thirties. He was a 2587 02:25:14.159 --> 02:25:17.840 contract director and they would tell him go make this, 2588 02:25:18.840 --> 02:25:21.360 and so he would to do the best that he can. 2589 02:25:21.440 --> 02:25:23.840 And some of those movies are really really good, and 2590 02:25:23.879 --> 02:25:26.600 some of them are like, well, you know, the runtime 2591 02:25:26.719 --> 02:25:30.120 is sixty one minutes and it's a programmer and so 2592 02:25:30.239 --> 02:25:33.600 on and so forth. But when he became really successful, 2593 02:25:33.600 --> 02:25:36.760 I think his real breakout picture was Captain Blood with 2594 02:25:36.920 --> 02:25:41.600 the spectacle and everything. And he needed pictures. You know 2595 02:25:41.680 --> 02:25:45.040 that old cliche, You're only as good as your last picture. 2596 02:25:45.520 --> 02:25:49.879 The only way in Hollywood then and now to keep 2597 02:25:49.920 --> 02:25:53.280 making movies is your movies have to make money, have 2598 02:25:53.360 --> 02:25:57.639 to be successful. That's a fact, and so his movies were. 2599 02:25:57.719 --> 02:26:00.920 He became like the cash cow of Warner Brothers from 2600 02:26:01.040 --> 02:26:05.879 like the mid thirties through most of the forties, and 2601 02:26:05.920 --> 02:26:09.440 then after the war was over and after nineteen forty six, 2602 02:26:09.559 --> 02:26:13.479 the box office tanked. These studios were going to lose 2603 02:26:13.559 --> 02:26:16.520 the control of their theater chains through the anti Trust 2604 02:26:16.520 --> 02:26:20.600 Divesseger decision. And then you had the Blacklist, which ruled 2605 02:26:20.600 --> 02:26:24.840 out swaths of probably the most talented people in Hollywood 2606 02:26:25.159 --> 02:26:28.920 because of politics and so forth. And that was rice. 2607 02:26:29.239 --> 02:26:32.760 He prevailed on Jack Warner to start his own production company, 2608 02:26:33.399 --> 02:26:37.719 and unfortunately, for a number of reasons, his production company 2609 02:26:38.000 --> 02:26:43.000 was temporarily successful. He made The Unsuspected, which was didn't 2610 02:26:43.040 --> 02:26:46.479 lose money. He wanted to make something along the lines 2611 02:26:46.520 --> 02:26:49.559 of Laura, and it didn't come up with that. In 2612 02:26:49.559 --> 02:26:53.840 that particular movie, Curtiz did more with the camera and 2613 02:26:53.879 --> 02:26:57.000 Woody Burdrell and Critiz go crazy with the camera in 2614 02:26:57.000 --> 02:27:00.000 that movie. That's that's one of the great visual film 2615 02:27:00.200 --> 02:27:04.239 More movies is the Unsuspected, The plotting of a head scratcher, 2616 02:27:04.719 --> 02:27:08.600 but the visualists is really great. But then he discovered 2617 02:27:08.600 --> 02:27:12.159 and signed Doris Day and made a Romance on the 2618 02:27:12.200 --> 02:27:16.079 High Seas, My Dream Is Yours, and then A Flamingo Road, 2619 02:27:16.159 --> 02:27:19.000 which was the most successful picture coming out of his 2620 02:27:19.120 --> 02:27:23.360 production company, which I just showed last Saturday at the 2621 02:27:23.399 --> 02:27:27.760 Egyptian Theater for Noir City. But it was not the time. 2622 02:27:27.799 --> 02:27:30.680 First off, Critiz was an artistic man, he was not 2623 02:27:30.760 --> 02:27:35.239 a businessman, and it was a bad time for movie 2624 02:27:35.280 --> 02:27:40.440 box office generally. And then of course Jack Warner pioneered 2625 02:27:40.799 --> 02:27:45.559 creative bookkeeping and charging off stuff to Curtiz's company and 2626 02:27:45.639 --> 02:27:49.040 all this other stuff, and then envy he wanted to 2627 02:27:49.079 --> 02:27:53.879 get Doris Day under Warner Brothers contract, not Michael Curtz Productions, 2628 02:27:54.280 --> 02:27:58.440 and I write all about how that transpired. So Curtiz 2629 02:27:58.520 --> 02:28:02.000 went back to being a contract director. He had right 2630 02:28:02.079 --> 02:28:05.360 a refusal, but of course Jack Warner reviewed anyone that 2631 02:28:05.479 --> 02:28:09.159 worked for him as someone and Ben Hurr chained to 2632 02:28:09.200 --> 02:28:12.000 an oer more or less, you know, go back to 2633 02:28:12.040 --> 02:28:15.799 your forty one and you know, I know you refuse this, 2634 02:28:16.040 --> 02:28:18.399 Michael Curtiz, but I want you to make it, So 2635 02:28:18.520 --> 02:28:21.200 go make this anyway. So he had. He still had 2636 02:28:21.200 --> 02:28:24.040 to make some pictures he didn't want to make, and 2637 02:28:24.479 --> 02:28:27.079 the ones he did want to make took too long. 2638 02:28:27.200 --> 02:28:31.520 Like he really wanted to make the Will Rogers biopick, 2639 02:28:32.319 --> 02:28:34.799 but that went on for years. Originally it was going 2640 02:28:34.840 --> 02:28:38.239 to be made with Mark Hellinger producing it and so 2641 02:28:38.319 --> 02:28:41.799 on and so forth, and nobody. The actors who knew 2642 02:28:41.879 --> 02:28:45.639 Rodgers and redeared him were horrified at the idea of 2643 02:28:45.760 --> 02:28:50.040 flying Will Rogers. Fencer Tracy said no way. Gary Cooper 2644 02:28:50.559 --> 02:28:53.559 and Joel McCrae told him, I'm not going to do this. 2645 02:28:53.600 --> 02:28:55.600 I'm a good man at a horse on a horse. 2646 02:28:55.840 --> 02:28:59.520 I cannot play Will Rogers. And so finally he got 2647 02:28:59.559 --> 02:29:03.520 Will Rogers son, Will Rogers Junior to play the role. 2648 02:29:03.639 --> 02:29:05.639 And he doesn't do too bad. I mean, this was 2649 02:29:05.639 --> 02:29:08.959 somebody who was not an actor, and Curtize actually got 2650 02:29:09.000 --> 02:29:12.280 a credible performance. But the problem was by nineteen fifty two, 2651 02:29:12.920 --> 02:29:15.799 Rogers had been dead since nineteen thirty five, and this 2652 02:29:16.239 --> 02:29:20.200 most famous and revered of Americans people had forgotten and 2653 02:29:20.319 --> 02:29:24.000 moved on. And so the film is very handsome. It's 2654 02:29:24.040 --> 02:29:27.479 not bad. It sure made Harry Warner happy, but it 2655 02:29:27.559 --> 02:29:29.920 didn't it. But I think if they had made that 2656 02:29:30.040 --> 02:29:33.319 movie like in nineteen forty three, it would have been 2657 02:29:33.440 --> 02:29:36.239 much much more of a hit than it turned out 2658 02:29:36.280 --> 02:29:39.920 to be. And then finally he left Warner Brothers in 2659 02:29:40.040 --> 02:29:44.520 fifty three because the creative bookkeeping, you know, oh, none 2660 02:29:44.520 --> 02:29:47.200 of your pictures except for one made one well that 2661 02:29:47.319 --> 02:29:51.319 was blowny and that was Warner Brothers. And there was that, 2662 02:29:51.559 --> 02:29:54.120 and then there was also a lot of people had 2663 02:29:54.200 --> 02:29:58.360 left that he was comfortable with, and this his brother 2664 02:29:59.079 --> 02:30:03.600 David or though he had been a second unit director 2665 02:30:03.680 --> 02:30:06.959 there and had done good work and so forth, and 2666 02:30:07.440 --> 02:30:10.799 he was also billed as David C. Gardner. I think 2667 02:30:10.840 --> 02:30:13.959 he changed his name either at the behest of his 2668 02:30:14.120 --> 02:30:17.760 older brother, to make himself different and not feel that 2669 02:30:17.879 --> 02:30:22.360 it was nepotism. But Deso Curtiz was the ad and 2670 02:30:22.440 --> 02:30:27.280 the breaking point on The Enforcer did good work, and 2671 02:30:27.639 --> 02:30:30.360 Warner Brothers was going to cut his brother loose. His 2672 02:30:30.479 --> 02:30:33.040 attitude was, hey, I've been here I've been loyal to 2673 02:30:33.120 --> 02:30:35.719 you all these years and you're treating my brother this way. 2674 02:30:36.399 --> 02:30:40.000 And so, long story short, he left his last movie 2675 02:30:40.000 --> 02:30:43.639 at Warner Brothers, The Boy from Oklahoma, which was another 2676 02:30:43.879 --> 02:30:47.159 stupid title that Jack Warner came up. Will Rogers Junior 2677 02:30:47.200 --> 02:30:49.600 was the hero. He wasn't a boy. Jack Warner was 2678 02:30:49.760 --> 02:30:53.840 very proprietary when it came to contracts, publicity and the 2679 02:30:53.879 --> 02:30:58.520 title of films, and he insisted on this, and so 2680 02:30:58.639 --> 02:31:03.959 Curtiz left and he went to Paramount on a term contract. 2681 02:31:04.079 --> 02:31:07.799 But then he directed The Egyptian for his old producer 2682 02:31:08.000 --> 02:31:13.959 and good friend Darryl Zanik, and that was a spectacle. Unfortunately, 2683 02:31:14.520 --> 02:31:17.440 Xanik insisted on using his mistress in one of the 2684 02:31:17.479 --> 02:31:20.920 main roles who could not act, and he's took his 2685 02:31:21.120 --> 02:31:27.879 mistress and cast her as Queen Nevertidy. It's still there, 2686 02:31:27.920 --> 02:31:33.319 you have it. But his post war movies were a 2687 02:31:33.360 --> 02:31:36.280 lot of people have written off that part of his career. 2688 02:31:37.079 --> 02:31:40.559 But there's films like King Creole, which I think is 2689 02:31:40.639 --> 02:31:46.479 clearly Elvis's best film, and The Proud Rebel with Alan Ladd, 2690 02:31:46.479 --> 02:31:50.040 Olivia Davil and my buddy David Ladd who plays Alan, 2691 02:31:50.479 --> 02:31:53.000 who is Alan Ladd's son in place his son in 2692 02:31:53.079 --> 02:31:55.799 the movie. He did do some good work, and of 2693 02:31:55.840 --> 02:32:00.319 course White Christmas, which was the biggest hit I think 2694 02:32:00.360 --> 02:32:04.520 in terms of box office that Curtiz ever directed. Unfortunately, 2695 02:32:04.639 --> 02:32:07.399 he did not have a percentage of the film. Bing 2696 02:32:07.520 --> 02:32:11.600 Crosby of course did, and Irving Berlin did, and they 2697 02:32:11.600 --> 02:32:13.600 had to give it to Danny k because I think 2698 02:32:13.639 --> 02:32:18.000 Donald O'Connor got sick and they needed someone of equal heft, 2699 02:32:18.079 --> 02:32:21.040 so they gave Danny. But Critique got a nice salary, 2700 02:32:21.079 --> 02:32:23.239 but he did not at a piece of that movie. 2701 02:32:23.879 --> 02:32:25.120 He would have been in good shape. 2702 02:32:26.719 --> 02:32:28.719 So I know you mentioned Noir City, and I know 2703 02:32:28.799 --> 02:32:31.760 that's going on right now, and there's different noir events 2704 02:32:31.799 --> 02:32:34.600 throughout the rest of the year as we'll go into 2705 02:32:34.600 --> 02:32:37.239 next year, which is fantastic. What else are you working on? 2706 02:32:38.159 --> 02:32:40.920 I have an appearance. I'm going up to the I 2707 02:32:40.920 --> 02:32:44.120 think it's the Vista Rio Theater in Sonoma County to 2708 02:32:44.799 --> 02:32:47.760 host a weekend of film noir, I think April tenth 2709 02:32:47.799 --> 02:32:51.680 through the fourteenth. And then there's the TCM Classic Film 2710 02:32:51.760 --> 02:32:56.440 Festival here in Hollywood, I think the third weekend of April, 2711 02:32:57.399 --> 02:33:00.959 and then I have my festival that I program and 2712 02:33:01.079 --> 02:33:04.440 host at the Palm Springs Cultural Center in Palm Springs, 2713 02:33:04.479 --> 02:33:07.799 it's called the Arthur Lyons Film Noir Festival. And I 2714 02:33:07.920 --> 02:33:12.680 started out way back in two thousand and one assisting 2715 02:33:12.799 --> 02:33:15.040 Arthur with the festival, and when he passed on in 2716 02:33:15.079 --> 02:33:18.719 two thousand and eight, I took over for the programming 2717 02:33:18.760 --> 02:33:22.079 and hosting. So I'm going to have Rory Flynn Errow 2718 02:33:22.159 --> 02:33:25.680 Flynn's daughter there. I'm going to have my friend Wyatt 2719 02:33:25.760 --> 02:33:30.520 McCrae for one of his grandfather Joel McCrae film, The Unseen, 2720 02:33:31.200 --> 02:33:34.360 And I am scheduled on Sunday to do a special 2721 02:33:34.399 --> 02:33:37.719 screening of the twenty twenty one version of Nightmare Alley 2722 02:33:37.760 --> 02:33:41.840 and have the director mL del Toro and my friend 2723 02:33:42.280 --> 02:33:46.920 his wife, the screenwriter Kim Morgan. There, so thirteen films 2724 02:33:47.000 --> 02:33:50.479 over Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, May eighth through the eleventh. 2725 02:33:50.840 --> 02:33:54.319 The best way to celebrate Mother's Day in Palm Springs. 2726 02:33:54.639 --> 02:33:59.319 So doing. I'm working on another short book about a 2727 02:33:59.360 --> 02:34:02.959 Western movie for the University Press of New Mexico that 2728 02:34:03.000 --> 02:34:05.040 I have to deliver before the end of the year, 2729 02:34:05.760 --> 02:34:07.559 and then after that we'll. 2730 02:34:07.440 --> 02:34:09.959 See mister ROADI thank you so much. 2731 02:34:10.000 --> 02:34:10.440 For your time. 2732 02:34:10.520 --> 02:34:12.479 It was such a pleasure finally getting to speak with you. 2733 02:34:12.520 --> 02:34:14.000 I've been a fan of your work for years. 2734 02:34:14.600 --> 02:34:18.040 Well, thank you, Mike. And it's allan jettison that turn 2735 02:34:18.120 --> 02:34:21.040 when I got out of the Navy long ago. You 2736 02:34:21.040 --> 02:34:23.280 don't have to mister roade in me. But no, Mike, 2737 02:34:23.319 --> 02:34:25.840 it's been a great talking to you, and I appreciate 2738 02:34:25.879 --> 02:34:28.239 your podcast, and I hope one of these days we 2739 02:34:28.280 --> 02:34:29.959 can meet up at the movies. 2740 02:34:31.680 --> 02:34:35.520 The time is now, the beat is Hollywood, the heat 2741 02:34:35.760 --> 02:34:37.040 is a discount thirty two. 2742 02:34:38.239 --> 02:34:39.280 The skirts are. 2743 02:34:39.200 --> 02:34:43.959 Blonde, brunettes and redhead I'm not there, but the prize 2744 02:34:44.399 --> 02:34:48.200 is sapphire blue. In a world of illusion where the 2745 02:34:48.319 --> 02:34:53.200 danger is real, it takes a cool headed private eye 2746 02:34:54.159 --> 02:34:57.879 to solve a red hot mister XP, it's a case 2747 02:34:57.920 --> 02:35:01.840 for an expert, and there's only one man who has 2748 02:35:01.879 --> 02:35:06.680 what it takes to crack it in. The man with 2749 02:35:06.840 --> 02:35:07.879 the Bogart's face. 2750 02:35:08.280 --> 02:35:10.559 Did I see sometime on television and. 2751 02:35:10.600 --> 02:35:11.399 All the movies? 2752 02:35:11.719 --> 02:35:12.840 Now that's somebody else. 2753 02:35:13.079 --> 02:35:14.719 You sure look like you? 2754 02:35:14.760 --> 02:35:18.239 Now I look like him. 2755 02:35:18.559 --> 02:35:23.680 A claw from a stranger, sham Marlow There, I need 2756 02:35:23.719 --> 02:35:24.120 your help. 2757 02:35:24.319 --> 02:35:27.200 I get two hundred dollars a day plush, expensive, desperate 2758 02:35:27.319 --> 02:35:29.399 days on the doorstep. 2759 02:35:29.079 --> 02:35:32.319 How much day want? And when tends today? 2760 02:35:33.479 --> 02:35:34.559 A clunk in the attic? 2761 02:35:34.680 --> 02:35:35.680 Okay, you've got a twitch. 2762 02:35:35.879 --> 02:35:37.280 This is your risky visions. 2763 02:35:37.000 --> 02:35:39.920 For it's a long shore wet hot. 2764 02:35:41.120 --> 02:35:45.719 Robert Saki will astound you in the Man with Bogart's face. 2765 02:35:48.479 --> 02:35:52.280 All Right, we're back and we're talking about Casablanca, and yeah, 2766 02:35:52.280 --> 02:35:54.319 there's a lot of other things that we can talk 2767 02:35:54.360 --> 02:35:57.680 about when it comes to this, including I was so 2768 02:35:57.760 --> 02:36:01.040 glad that they had most of, if not the entire 2769 02:36:01.079 --> 02:36:05.760 episode of the fifties version of Casablanca the TV show. 2770 02:36:06.639 --> 02:36:09.440 It was interesting to watch, but it's so weird. The 2771 02:36:09.440 --> 02:36:12.000 thing that really caught me while I was watching that 2772 02:36:12.239 --> 02:36:15.239 was whenever they were on the phone, did you guys 2773 02:36:15.239 --> 02:36:17.639 pick this up? Whenever they were on the phone, whoever 2774 02:36:17.680 --> 02:36:21.639 they were talking to was speaking English, but it was backwards, 2775 02:36:21.920 --> 02:36:24.239 and I'm like, why are you doing that? I guess 2776 02:36:24.239 --> 02:36:26.239 it was to make it sound maybe like a foreign 2777 02:36:26.319 --> 02:36:28.920 language or something, but I was just like, what are 2778 02:36:28.920 --> 02:36:31.639 you doing playing these It was just like on the 2779 02:36:31.680 --> 02:36:33.600 other end of the line, I'm like, what the hell 2780 02:36:34.120 --> 02:36:37.159 call the Red Room? I guess so the little man 2781 02:36:37.200 --> 02:36:40.520 from another place on the other end, I've got good news. 2782 02:36:41.479 --> 02:36:44.520 Yeah, I look, I'm busy for Ari. 2783 02:36:45.799 --> 02:36:47.600 All right, So you got a deal that you can't handle. 2784 02:36:47.639 --> 02:36:48.200 Call me tomorrow. 2785 02:36:53.879 --> 02:37:00.200 I'll fill me in, all right, send him here? 2786 02:37:01.040 --> 02:37:02.639 Never mind? Why just send him here? 2787 02:37:03.840 --> 02:37:07.159 That sounds atrocious. That sounds like the parents in Peanuts. 2788 02:37:07.159 --> 02:37:11.799 W h Yeah, it's hey, it's crazy because that's television. 2789 02:37:11.879 --> 02:37:14.479 And Warners was like right first in the gate we 2790 02:37:14.520 --> 02:37:17.440 can talk about. Oh, Warners is great for being against 2791 02:37:17.440 --> 02:37:19.360 the Nazis first, but they were also the first ones 2792 02:37:19.399 --> 02:37:22.000 to sell all their catalog to television. And that show 2793 02:37:22.040 --> 02:37:24.799 from fifty five is such a ridiculous concept where you 2794 02:37:24.840 --> 02:37:27.319 have like, what was it. It was like three Warner 2795 02:37:27.559 --> 02:37:29.680 properties and they would switch every week. 2796 02:37:29.959 --> 02:37:34.440 I was like the TV wheel. It was like Colombo, Bancheck, 2797 02:37:35.000 --> 02:37:38.000 McMillan and wife McCloud a cloud. Yeah exactly. I was 2798 02:37:38.000 --> 02:37:41.120 gonna say hack Ramsey, but you got me. Every week 2799 02:37:41.159 --> 02:37:43.600 we come to you with a different Warner property. This 2800 02:37:43.639 --> 02:37:46.399 week it's Casa Blanca. All right. 2801 02:37:46.520 --> 02:37:46.840 Great. 2802 02:37:47.719 --> 02:37:49.920 With all of the television versions of this, it just 2803 02:37:50.040 --> 02:37:52.799 tells you how much it's just about the right casting 2804 02:37:52.840 --> 02:37:56.479 and the right atmosphere. And that's so hard to manufacture 2805 02:37:56.559 --> 02:38:00.000 on command, even if you have a game plan from 2806 02:38:00.120 --> 02:38:02.319 how it successfully could work in this film, it just 2807 02:38:02.319 --> 02:38:05.079 seems to be you can have really talented people in 2808 02:38:05.120 --> 02:38:07.360 front of the camera and writing the scripts and try 2809 02:38:07.360 --> 02:38:09.639 to capture that pattern, but it's hard to recapture that 2810 02:38:09.719 --> 02:38:12.719 lightning in a bottle, unfortunately for both shows. And it 2811 02:38:12.760 --> 02:38:15.840 seems like such a natural because it is one location 2812 02:38:15.959 --> 02:38:18.920 full of colorful characters hanging out and getting into intrigue. 2813 02:38:18.920 --> 02:38:22.120 It seems a natural premise for a television show all 2814 02:38:22.159 --> 02:38:24.879 these kind of films, But yeah, it's down at the casting. 2815 02:38:24.920 --> 02:38:28.040 I think I just don't understand why you would pull 2816 02:38:28.120 --> 02:38:30.639 something from forty two. You want to talk about like 2817 02:38:30.680 --> 02:38:35.000 the timeliness of Blanca. It literally opens November twenty six 2818 02:38:35.079 --> 02:38:38.479 Thanksgiving in New York, eighteen days after they land in 2819 02:38:38.520 --> 02:38:41.399 North Africa in Casablanca where it's in the news, and 2820 02:38:41.440 --> 02:38:43.959 then they open wide in the rest of the country 2821 02:38:44.200 --> 02:38:47.559 a couple days after FDR and Churchill are in Casablanca. 2822 02:38:48.000 --> 02:38:50.959 So there's like that tendency on the executives is, look 2823 02:38:50.959 --> 02:38:52.719 in the slush pile, what do we have, what's the 2824 02:38:52.760 --> 02:38:55.280 ip that we can mind more stuff out of? And 2825 02:38:55.360 --> 02:38:58.079 of course after it win's best picture. That's the natural 2826 02:38:58.479 --> 02:39:01.239 predisposition of these just make it again. But it's that 2827 02:39:01.360 --> 02:39:06.280 isolationist tendency in American culture from World War One and 2828 02:39:06.319 --> 02:39:08.680 World War Two, and it's that specific moment, and you're 2829 02:39:08.680 --> 02:39:11.159 going to make it into a weekly television about the 2830 02:39:11.239 --> 02:39:14.040 battle in someone's heart to be a part of the 2831 02:39:14.040 --> 02:39:18.200 world's community, you end up going into banalities. 2832 02:39:18.399 --> 02:39:21.120 It's like a Cold War thing versus the World War 2833 02:39:21.159 --> 02:39:24.680 Two think. So it's a different kind of atmosphere that 2834 02:39:24.680 --> 02:39:27.120 they're trying to tap into and it doesn't fit. But 2835 02:39:27.319 --> 02:39:29.440 that's the thing that struck me with the fifties version especially. 2836 02:39:29.479 --> 02:39:32.040 It's like them trying to deal with the Soviet Union. 2837 02:39:32.319 --> 02:39:36.079 It's the wrong enemy, it's the wrong match of international tension, 2838 02:39:36.120 --> 02:39:38.280 and that location the. 2839 02:39:38.200 --> 02:39:41.120 Eighty three version. There was a video on YouTube that 2840 02:39:41.159 --> 02:39:43.200 was supposed to be just about the eighty three version, 2841 02:39:43.600 --> 02:39:45.520 and I'm not complaining because I thought the video was 2842 02:39:45.639 --> 02:39:48.559 very well done, but the person that put it together 2843 02:39:48.879 --> 02:39:53.120 really gave us more information about things around it than 2844 02:39:53.280 --> 02:39:55.879 the actual show itself. I would love to know how 2845 02:39:55.920 --> 02:39:59.479 that came about, because it feels almost like Raiders of 2846 02:39:59.479 --> 02:40:02.840 the Lost Are was popular, then we start making all 2847 02:40:02.840 --> 02:40:06.200 of these Raiders rip offs, including television's one of my 2848 02:40:06.319 --> 02:40:08.520 shows when I was growing up, when I was ten 2849 02:40:08.600 --> 02:40:11.520 years old watching Tales of the Gold Monkey, and it 2850 02:40:11.600 --> 02:40:15.200 feels almost like this. Casablanca in nineteen eighty three was 2851 02:40:15.760 --> 02:40:19.959 subar Tales of the Gold Monkey because it's David Sell 2852 02:40:20.000 --> 02:40:23.840 as Rick, doctor Alizondo as Louis, and then you've got 2853 02:40:24.159 --> 02:40:27.760 It's so bizarre to see Radiotis show up as Sasha 2854 02:40:28.440 --> 02:40:31.840 and then Arthur Mallet who ralli O. Arthur Mallett, who 2855 02:40:31.920 --> 02:40:35.079 most people will remember is like the old man who 2856 02:40:35.079 --> 02:40:37.840 loses his marbles and hook who also did just a 2857 02:40:37.879 --> 02:40:40.799 ton of great voice work he did I think it 2858 02:40:40.840 --> 02:40:44.120 was mister Mystic and Secret of Nim and then he 2859 02:40:44.200 --> 02:40:48.799 got Scatman Cruthers is sam very thankless role, barely on 2860 02:40:48.920 --> 02:40:51.760 screen a lot of times. And yeah, it was just 2861 02:40:52.120 --> 02:40:55.639 it's five episodes, and from what I saw in this video, 2862 02:40:55.840 --> 02:40:58.479 there was no plan for this to become a regular series. 2863 02:40:58.520 --> 02:41:02.280 It was announced as a limit series, five episodes, no 2864 02:41:02.399 --> 02:41:06.319 real beginning, no real end, and God help me some 2865 02:41:06.360 --> 02:41:10.719 of those boring episodes at first Seed. It was so 2866 02:41:11.159 --> 02:41:12.840 tough to get through this thing. 2867 02:41:13.840 --> 02:41:17.719 Yeah, my biggest takeaway watch is you know you're terrible 2868 02:41:17.760 --> 02:41:20.319 when you have Anita Ekberg in the pilot and you 2869 02:41:20.399 --> 02:41:24.440 literally cannot stay awake. But shot on thirty five millimeter 2870 02:41:24.440 --> 02:41:26.479 at least that's what IMDb tells me. But it looks 2871 02:41:26.600 --> 02:41:29.879 like the sixteen millimeter like Fosspender TV productions. As far 2872 02:41:29.879 --> 02:41:31.840 as the look of it, which that was my biggest 2873 02:41:31.840 --> 02:41:34.520 hay with it feels like a European made for television 2874 02:41:34.559 --> 02:41:37.639 movie rather than a TV show. Yeah, esthetically, that was 2875 02:41:37.680 --> 02:41:39.040 the thing I was thinking of, like the World War 2876 02:41:39.079 --> 02:41:41.600 two setting. I was thinking for Hovid and Fosspender as 2877 02:41:41.600 --> 02:41:44.239 I'm watching it, although obviously not as. 2878 02:41:43.959 --> 02:41:48.239 It was rough. I also tried to watch play it 2879 02:41:48.280 --> 02:41:51.000 again Sam for this one, and I turned it off 2880 02:41:51.040 --> 02:41:53.399 after about half an hour because I was just like, Oh, 2881 02:41:53.479 --> 02:41:56.239 this is one of those I can't get laid Woody 2882 02:41:56.280 --> 02:41:58.239 Allen films, and I was like, yeah, I don't really 2883 02:41:58.280 --> 02:42:00.920 need this in my life. I'm sure some people enjoyed it, 2884 02:42:00.959 --> 02:42:04.479 but it was not a highlight for me for Whatdye Allen. 2885 02:42:05.399 --> 02:42:07.479 It was the first time I'd gone back to play 2886 02:42:07.479 --> 02:42:09.959 it against Sam since my early twenties, and so it 2887 02:42:10.040 --> 02:42:12.840 was very odd seeing it again. And I guess it 2888 02:42:12.879 --> 02:42:18.159 plays differently when you're more young and naive about things. 2889 02:42:18.440 --> 02:42:20.719 Looking at it now, I was thinking about, like how 2890 02:42:20.760 --> 02:42:23.399 he does that whole idea of the spectator and the 2891 02:42:23.399 --> 02:42:27.040 film character a relationship better in Purple was of Cairo 2892 02:42:27.120 --> 02:42:30.920 as far as like commenting on that kind of the 2893 02:42:30.959 --> 02:42:34.639 relationship spectators have with film. But I would say that 2894 02:42:34.799 --> 02:42:39.280 the opening where he's just sadly watching the film and 2895 02:42:39.440 --> 02:42:42.559 like that masculine ideal that is so the opposite of 2896 02:42:42.600 --> 02:42:45.600 the neurotic, woody persona. I find that to be not 2897 02:42:45.760 --> 02:42:47.760 funny but the most touching part of the film. And 2898 02:42:47.799 --> 02:42:50.600 then it becomes a broader character than what he'll do, 2899 02:42:50.639 --> 02:42:53.639 and like Annie Hall forward, like it's bringing that character 2900 02:42:53.799 --> 02:42:56.799 down to earth from bananas and take the money and run. 2901 02:42:56.840 --> 02:43:00.600 But it's still a heightened cringe comedy kind of persona, 2902 02:43:00.639 --> 02:43:02.639 Like it doesn't feel as grounded as what he gets 2903 02:43:02.680 --> 02:43:05.040 into a few years later. But it's interesting, like as 2904 02:43:05.079 --> 02:43:07.680 a transition film, but it's a rough watch. I think 2905 02:43:07.760 --> 02:43:10.639 more than that. I remember it being, you know, from 2906 02:43:10.639 --> 02:43:12.799 what I saw it as a kid, but as a 2907 02:43:12.840 --> 02:43:16.200 Bogart thing. It's just interesting how like the idea is 2908 02:43:16.239 --> 02:43:20.520 like that he represents a kind of prefeminist, pre neurosis, 2909 02:43:20.600 --> 02:43:22.520 kind of idea of what men are supposed to be. 2910 02:43:23.319 --> 02:43:27.879 And it's a weird guardian angel figure for the Woody persona. 2911 02:43:27.959 --> 02:43:31.479 It seems totally disconnected from the cinema of Woody Allen 2912 02:43:31.520 --> 02:43:34.840 and the characters he plays, So I don't know, it's 2913 02:43:35.120 --> 02:43:38.799 comparing it to something like The Man with Bogart's Face, 2914 02:43:38.840 --> 02:43:41.399 which I watched for the first time before talking to today. 2915 02:43:42.000 --> 02:43:44.879 It's just odd, like how these are both films that 2916 02:43:44.920 --> 02:43:46.360 are I don't know, the same era, something like The 2917 02:43:46.399 --> 02:43:49.639 Long Goodbye, which is already like taking this whole idea 2918 02:43:49.719 --> 02:43:53.280 of the Bogart Detective and turning it on its ear. 2919 02:43:53.399 --> 02:43:55.239 So to go back to something that is still very 2920 02:43:55.239 --> 02:43:58.879 reverential to that idea is so interesting to me because 2921 02:43:58.879 --> 02:44:02.520 I think about, like the nostalgia for old Hollywood in 2922 02:44:02.600 --> 02:44:05.079 the New Hollywood. I think about films like the Peter 2923 02:44:05.159 --> 02:44:08.879 Bogdanovitch films or The Late Show or things like or 2924 02:44:08.920 --> 02:44:12.040 all those Garbo Speaks kind of movies like like Dave 2925 02:44:12.120 --> 02:44:14.920 the Locusts or all that kind of reference for old 2926 02:44:14.920 --> 02:44:18.479 Hollywood that's starting to emerge in that post Vietnam era. 2927 02:44:18.959 --> 02:44:21.639 And I think about played against Sam sitting within that, 2928 02:44:21.840 --> 02:44:24.879 and just maybe the first film that's trying to speak 2929 02:44:24.920 --> 02:44:27.319 to that Bogart culp in such an eccentric way that 2930 02:44:27.399 --> 02:44:30.200 I I don't know I made it through it today, 2931 02:44:30.319 --> 02:44:32.639 but it was a little bit disappointing after, like, oh, 2932 02:44:32.680 --> 02:44:34.799 I was looking forward to seeing that again. Beyond the 2933 02:44:34.840 --> 02:44:37.280 polarizing nature of Woody ell and in his own life, 2934 02:44:37.280 --> 02:44:38.959 I just think as a film it's probably not one 2935 02:44:39.000 --> 02:44:41.159 that he's even that proud of. I think in retrospect 2936 02:44:41.200 --> 02:44:43.000 it's also weird to see him in San Francisco. 2937 02:44:43.840 --> 02:44:46.040 I was going to bring that up, that he didn't 2938 02:44:46.079 --> 02:44:49.399 direct it and that it was it's actually one of 2939 02:44:49.440 --> 02:44:52.079 the few that's set in San Francisco, and it sarns 2940 02:44:52.159 --> 02:44:54.879 that way. Putting the same spade. The character that he's 2941 02:44:55.040 --> 02:44:57.920 also blending with Rick from Casablanca is more like a 2942 02:44:57.920 --> 02:45:00.799 West Coast thing. It reminded me of and Maltese Falcon 2943 02:45:00.840 --> 02:45:02.959 is set. Where is it actually set in New York too? 2944 02:45:03.680 --> 02:45:05.559 I think it's San Francisco because I think, you know, 2945 02:45:05.639 --> 02:45:08.559 there's the boat that comes in. I think from the Orient, 2946 02:45:08.680 --> 02:45:09.559 but I could be wrong. 2947 02:45:10.280 --> 02:45:13.559 I feel like Maltie, like all that the hord boiled 2948 02:45:13.559 --> 02:45:16.959 stuff that's West Coast and then like East Coast, is 2949 02:45:17.079 --> 02:45:20.479 a kind of different sensibility. But as the youngest person 2950 02:45:20.559 --> 02:45:23.959 here and possibly the most naive person, I actually have 2951 02:45:24.000 --> 02:45:25.920 to say that I really like to play it against 2952 02:45:25.920 --> 02:45:28.600 Sam this time around. I do have to admit that 2953 02:45:28.680 --> 02:45:33.680 I watched it again on VHS not long after watching Casablanca, 2954 02:45:33.959 --> 02:45:36.319 and I was just like taken in by the idea 2955 02:45:36.479 --> 02:45:40.680 of somebody acting against somebody else playing Bogie, like I 2956 02:45:40.719 --> 02:45:43.639 really love the meta textual elements of It's a movie 2957 02:45:43.719 --> 02:45:46.280 about film. And then of course later I watched Purple 2958 02:45:46.360 --> 02:45:48.959 Rose of Cairo, which is a great point. But the 2959 02:45:49.040 --> 02:45:51.799 major factor in that is that that is a woman 2960 02:45:52.079 --> 02:45:55.479 perspective of being serenaded by a man coming off of 2961 02:45:55.840 --> 02:45:59.440 the screen and played against Sam is so wrapped up 2962 02:45:59.639 --> 02:46:02.840 with sexuality of a man, and I enjoyed it for 2963 02:46:02.879 --> 02:46:06.079 what it was of like a nebbish guy versus like 2964 02:46:06.120 --> 02:46:08.719 the image of Bogart and Mike. I thought that you 2965 02:46:08.719 --> 02:46:11.520 would relate to it because like or at least I 2966 02:46:11.600 --> 02:46:13.719 relate to it where it's like making fun of you. 2967 02:46:13.799 --> 02:46:16.840 For anybody who watches way too many movies, we never 2968 02:46:16.959 --> 02:46:19.520 go out anywhere. We never do anything. We just go 2969 02:46:19.600 --> 02:46:21.280 to the movies, and it's like, what do you want 2970 02:46:21.479 --> 02:46:26.040 I write about movies? But I really enjoyed the scene 2971 02:46:26.040 --> 02:46:29.120 of them in the grocery store where his ex wife 2972 02:46:29.159 --> 02:46:31.440 is on one shoulder and the guy that they got 2973 02:46:31.479 --> 02:46:35.639 to play Bogart in played Againsam. I thought was one of, 2974 02:46:35.760 --> 02:46:38.440 if not the best versions of that kind of character. 2975 02:46:38.520 --> 02:46:40.319 And he tells him like, no, don't pick up the 2976 02:46:40.360 --> 02:46:43.879 Jewish votive candles for a holiday, pick up the romantic ones. 2977 02:46:44.280 --> 02:46:48.159 And it's just the ridiculousness of Bogart being like your 2978 02:46:48.200 --> 02:46:50.680 friend in everyday life. I really liked it. And I 2979 02:46:50.719 --> 02:46:54.959 will say, having watched a lot of parodies of the 2980 02:46:55.079 --> 02:46:58.200 ending scene on the tarmac, I will give Alan credit 2981 02:46:58.360 --> 02:47:01.719 that he does not wear the macin the fedora. We 2982 02:47:01.840 --> 02:47:04.639 do have to admit that Casablanca is like one of 2983 02:47:04.639 --> 02:47:09.000 those films that is like famously responsible for a lot 2984 02:47:09.040 --> 02:47:13.399 of men trying to act and dress like Bogart, and 2985 02:47:13.440 --> 02:47:15.399 there are very few people who can pull off the 2986 02:47:15.440 --> 02:47:19.680 macintosh and the fedora and not look goofy. And Alan 2987 02:47:20.280 --> 02:47:23.040 doesn't take it to that point. But that's another thing 2988 02:47:23.079 --> 02:47:24.959 that he didn't direct it too. He just wrote it. 2989 02:47:25.280 --> 02:47:28.000 But it is odd that he started his career putting 2990 02:47:28.000 --> 02:47:31.799 it on stage as the Casablanca Rap Project. 2991 02:47:32.159 --> 02:47:34.600 And Robert Sacchi is that is how you pronounced it. 2992 02:47:34.600 --> 02:47:36.959 The actrom the man with Bogart's face. Boy was Boguard 2993 02:47:37.040 --> 02:47:40.399 in productions that played against Sam Connection and he's an 2994 02:47:40.559 --> 02:47:44.000 actor I know from this Giallo film called The French 2995 02:47:44.040 --> 02:47:47.040 Sex Murders, which you know, it's just like incongruously, like 2996 02:47:47.079 --> 02:47:49.760 that guy looks like Bogart for no reason. But that 2997 02:47:49.840 --> 02:47:52.440 was the interesting ride. I was that the first time 2998 02:47:52.479 --> 02:47:54.079 you had seen this or did you had you seen 2999 02:47:54.120 --> 02:47:54.440 it before? 3000 02:47:54.520 --> 02:47:56.600 That was my first time I thought that there was 3001 02:47:56.840 --> 02:47:59.760 a and I might be inflating things. I thought there 3002 02:47:59.840 --> 02:48:02.840 was an Italian film about a man who looked like 3003 02:48:02.920 --> 02:48:05.879 Humphrey Bogart. But maybe it's the whole that he was 3004 02:48:05.879 --> 02:48:08.520 in the French Sex Murders thing. But yeah, this was 3005 02:48:08.559 --> 02:48:11.680 the first time I saw it, and it really was 3006 02:48:11.760 --> 02:48:14.200 pulling from all of those parody films that were so 3007 02:48:14.360 --> 02:48:18.559 popular at that time, like The Cheap Detective or The 3008 02:48:18.600 --> 02:48:23.319 Blackbird or Murder Can Hurt You or Murdered by Death, 3009 02:48:23.399 --> 02:48:28.000 those types of movies, And yeah, I liked some of 3010 02:48:28.040 --> 02:48:30.920 the things I liked the very beginning with the plastic 3011 02:48:31.000 --> 02:48:33.680 surgery because it reminded me a lot of Dark Passage, 3012 02:48:34.200 --> 02:48:37.600 And I was waiting for the doctor, Philip Baker Hall 3013 02:48:37.680 --> 02:48:39.280 showing up as the doctor. I was waiting for the 3014 02:48:39.399 --> 02:48:41.520 doctor to talk about I could make a man look 3015 02:48:41.600 --> 02:48:45.120 like a booda. You know that line from Dark Passage. 3016 02:48:45.840 --> 02:48:50.040 Ever see any botched plastic job. If a man like 3017 02:48:50.120 --> 02:48:53.520 me didn't like a photo, you could surely fix him 3018 02:48:53.600 --> 02:48:57.280 up for life, make him look like a bulldog or 3019 02:48:57.360 --> 02:49:00.440 a monkey. 3020 02:49:01.479 --> 02:49:04.159 I'll make you look older, but gooder. 3021 02:49:05.040 --> 02:49:08.360 That was so straightened, Like when Mike Mazerski shows up 3022 02:49:08.440 --> 02:49:11.399 and stuff. I'm like, this is really bizarre. But I 3023 02:49:11.520 --> 02:49:14.559 was glad that it owns itself down, as it actually 3024 02:49:14.639 --> 02:49:17.760 gets more into the mystery of the film. But man, 3025 02:49:17.840 --> 02:49:20.639 oh man, where there are some real groaners, especially that 3026 02:49:20.879 --> 02:49:24.559 secretary character. Oh my gosh, hello dudes. 3027 02:49:24.879 --> 02:49:28.440 Oh see, they're in a trillion calls. 3028 02:49:28.959 --> 02:49:30.159 I told her you'd call her back. 3029 02:49:30.479 --> 02:49:32.360 Oh, and an underwear company called. 3030 02:49:32.520 --> 02:49:34.280 They want to know if you'll endorse their staff. 3031 02:49:34.360 --> 02:49:35.360 I don't wear underware. 3032 02:49:35.719 --> 02:49:37.040 I told them there. 3033 02:49:37.200 --> 02:49:39.520 They wanted to know how I knew. 3034 02:49:39.479 --> 02:49:40.079 Would you Shay? 3035 02:49:40.239 --> 02:49:42.280 I can't remember maybe it'll come to you. 3036 02:49:42.319 --> 02:49:44.840 Maybe, but I don't think so, Needa. 3037 02:49:44.680 --> 02:49:48.399 Do I get else? You're on the phone? Who never mind, 3038 02:49:48.440 --> 02:49:49.120 I'll get her. 3039 02:49:50.159 --> 02:49:52.920 Her character reminded me of the Producers, and I was 3040 02:49:52.959 --> 02:49:55.120 thinking about mel Brooks. I was, you know, it feels 3041 02:49:55.120 --> 02:49:57.600 more like a TV movie to me versus like something 3042 02:49:57.639 --> 02:49:59.680 like the Bogdanovitch films from that period. And I guess 3043 02:49:59.680 --> 02:50:02.000 that did a lot of made for television movies, so 3044 02:50:02.360 --> 02:50:05.000 I guess like that aesthetic makes sense. I do have 3045 02:50:05.040 --> 02:50:06.760 to give a shout out to the Great Shark Attack, 3046 02:50:06.799 --> 02:50:09.120 and that was something I did not see coming. But 3047 02:50:09.799 --> 02:50:14.120 there's so much dialogue that's calling attention to how characters 3048 02:50:14.120 --> 02:50:17.319 in advanced echo classic Hollywood movies that it almost has 3049 02:50:17.360 --> 02:50:19.920 like this desperate edge to the film because of just 3050 02:50:20.280 --> 02:50:22.559 it's it's at odds with the nostalgic whimsy of it, 3051 02:50:22.600 --> 02:50:25.000 like just reminding you so much about the references that 3052 02:50:25.040 --> 02:50:27.479 it's making, like by him telling you what they are, 3053 02:50:27.559 --> 02:50:30.360 and it's just like this is a very strange choice 3054 02:50:30.799 --> 02:50:33.000 to do it. It's a very eccentric movie for something 3055 02:50:33.040 --> 02:50:35.879 that's trying to be so lighthearted than whimsical, it feels 3056 02:50:35.879 --> 02:50:38.639 like peculiar in a way that I thought was interesting. 3057 02:50:38.920 --> 02:50:41.239 The whole thing how he's obsessed with the painting of 3058 02:50:41.319 --> 02:50:43.799 Laura and that he thinks that the main character looks 3059 02:50:43.799 --> 02:50:47.159 like Jane Tierney. And I'm like, are you confusing Bulgart 3060 02:50:47.159 --> 02:50:51.319 with Dena andrews uh, because that wasn't the same niyh, 3061 02:50:51.680 --> 02:50:54.719 you know, because there's lots of references to Bargart's stuff 3062 02:50:54.719 --> 02:50:57.559 through here. But then at the same time you're like, whoa, no, 3063 02:50:57.719 --> 02:51:00.520 not not all this, and yeah, just the I assure 3064 02:51:00.559 --> 02:51:03.239 you don't know Gene Tierney. I'm like, Okay, enough with 3065 02:51:03.319 --> 02:51:06.200 the Gene Tyranny thing. Maybe it's somebody who looks like 3066 02:51:06.680 --> 02:51:09.840 another actress, somebody that had been in a Bogart film. 3067 02:51:09.879 --> 02:51:13.879 Try to find a Bacall, try to find a Bergman somebody. 3068 02:51:14.079 --> 02:51:16.399 There were some weird choices in that film, and then 3069 02:51:16.479 --> 02:51:19.879 some of the cameos that they had from like George Raft, 3070 02:51:19.920 --> 02:51:21.840 and I'm just like, I feel so bad for you, 3071 02:51:21.920 --> 02:51:24.600 George Raft, Like, weren't you just in like the Thinks 3072 02:51:24.760 --> 02:51:27.959 ten years prior to this. It's like your whole career 3073 02:51:27.959 --> 02:51:31.200 in the seventies was like doing weird cameos and things. 3074 02:51:31.280 --> 02:51:32.959 I'm sure you were in I'm sure he was in 3075 02:51:33.360 --> 02:51:35.319 Sextead as well. 3076 02:51:35.319 --> 02:51:38.520 It felt also like oddly European because of Franco Niro 3077 02:51:38.760 --> 02:51:41.559 and simple Danning I and I only have this association 3078 02:51:41.639 --> 02:51:43.799 with a Yallow film for Robert Sacci, so it feels like, 3079 02:51:44.000 --> 02:51:45.959 even though it feels like a very Hollywood American film, 3080 02:51:45.959 --> 02:51:49.360 it's like all this weird European film kind of energy 3081 02:51:49.479 --> 02:51:51.840 flowing throughout it, which I thought was another odd thing 3082 02:51:52.079 --> 02:51:55.760 to note with it. Yeah, I was glad to finally 3083 02:51:55.799 --> 02:51:59.760 have seen it. It's bizarre movies, It's very bizarre. And 3084 02:52:00.239 --> 02:52:03.559 I thought that Victor Bono did a fantastic Sydney Green 3085 02:52:03.559 --> 02:52:06.879 Street impersonation. I thought that was very smart. And I 3086 02:52:06.920 --> 02:52:09.200 don't even remember seeing some of the people that they 3087 02:52:09.239 --> 02:52:11.479 called out in the beginning to be like and cameos 3088 02:52:11.479 --> 02:52:14.840 from Yvon de Carlo and I'm like, yeah, I don't 3089 02:52:14.879 --> 02:52:17.639 really even remember her being in the movie, but I 3090 02:52:17.680 --> 02:52:22.399 definitely remember Olivia Hussey, who I thought named Elsa in here. 3091 02:52:22.440 --> 02:52:24.440 Who And I was just like, Okay, she's going to 3092 02:52:24.479 --> 02:52:27.479 be the main love interest. No, no, it's actually I 3093 02:52:27.479 --> 02:52:28.600 guess it was Michelle Phillips. 3094 02:52:28.600 --> 02:52:31.440 Who's the main love interest. I'm just like Okay, just 3095 02:52:31.559 --> 02:52:35.159 pick one. Would you like have somebody torn between two loves? 3096 02:52:35.239 --> 02:52:38.239 But it was a weird, weird movie. 3097 02:52:39.120 --> 02:52:42.639 Sounds like a classic European production that just falls apart. 3098 02:52:42.639 --> 02:52:46.239 The script is not there, which is funny considering Casablanca itself. 3099 02:52:46.319 --> 02:52:49.079 Like the script was not there, but the sensibilities are 3100 02:52:49.120 --> 02:52:49.959 just totally different. 3101 02:52:50.799 --> 02:52:52.639 Well, the guy who wrote it, it was based on 3102 02:52:52.719 --> 02:52:55.799 his book, Andrew J. Fenneddy. He had written some really 3103 02:52:55.879 --> 02:52:58.879 good things, like a lot of people swear by Black Noon, 3104 02:52:59.079 --> 02:53:02.799 the TV movie that's kind of a horror TV film. 3105 02:53:03.319 --> 02:53:05.680 Actually he wrote the movie that I just did a 3106 02:53:05.760 --> 02:53:09.360 commentary for a few months ago, Arnold, which was really bad. 3107 02:53:09.440 --> 02:53:11.040 So yeah, I guess he's kind of all over the 3108 02:53:12.360 --> 02:53:16.079 At least he's consistent. Yeah, And I know that there 3109 02:53:16.120 --> 02:53:21.159 were like book sequels that were proposed for I don't 3110 02:53:21.200 --> 02:53:24.479 remember the name of the book that came out. Actually, 3111 02:53:24.520 --> 02:53:26.000 there have been a couple books, right, There was an 3112 02:53:26.000 --> 02:53:29.239 official Warner Brothers book that was both a prequel and 3113 02:53:29.319 --> 02:53:31.959 a sequel, and then there were at David Thompson book 3114 02:53:32.000 --> 02:53:34.879 that was kind of like short stories about what happened 3115 02:53:34.879 --> 02:53:37.399 to these characters. And I love that he really plays 3116 02:53:37.479 --> 02:53:40.920 up the whole Captain Renault was gay thing, and that 3117 02:53:41.000 --> 02:53:43.440 like he and Rick end up living together and movie 3118 02:53:43.440 --> 02:53:45.280 any kind of thing. I was just like, Oh, that's nice. 3119 02:53:45.319 --> 02:53:47.079 I love that whole thing, Like, well, if I were 3120 02:53:47.120 --> 02:53:48.879 a woman, I should be in love with Rick. 3121 02:53:50.600 --> 02:53:54.639 You want to talk about skirting the production code line like, oh, man, 3122 02:53:54.879 --> 02:53:58.360 that Renault is characterized in the film gets really close 3123 02:53:58.360 --> 02:54:00.840 to the edge in many ways, it's becoming. 3124 02:54:00.479 --> 02:54:03.200 More open minded that line of that day. Oh yes, 3125 02:54:04.079 --> 02:54:07.920 that's taking both the book wife and husband with them. 3126 02:54:08.239 --> 02:54:11.440 When I watched for this was across the Pacific, which 3127 02:54:11.680 --> 02:54:14.280 I hadn't seen before, was it? 3128 02:54:14.319 --> 02:54:14.479 Is it? 3129 02:54:14.559 --> 02:54:17.799 Journey to Jeremy to Marse is the one that's a 3130 02:54:17.799 --> 02:54:21.639 flashback within a flashback, and then there's another flashback within it, 3131 02:54:21.719 --> 02:54:24.479 which is just amazing, like a series of flashbacks and 3132 02:54:24.559 --> 02:54:28.200 flashbacks that characters who are telling the story should have 3133 02:54:28.280 --> 02:54:32.079 no business knowing. I love that that it is so 3134 02:54:32.440 --> 02:54:36.520 bizarrely structured, And what a fucking ending of that movie. 3135 02:54:36.600 --> 02:54:40.639 Holy shit, it's incredible, like the nesting doll structure of it. 3136 02:54:41.079 --> 02:54:43.639 And I read a lot of people like criticizing it, 3137 02:54:43.680 --> 02:54:46.879 and I have problems with it too, because it's incredible 3138 02:54:46.879 --> 02:54:50.440 to me because I actually loathe frame stories. I despise 3139 02:54:50.559 --> 02:54:53.399 them to it. But I watched that movie and I 3140 02:54:53.440 --> 02:54:56.360 had a great time. Even though it's like three stories 3141 02:54:56.399 --> 02:55:00.360 all segmented into each other. I really really enjoyed Passes 3142 02:55:00.399 --> 02:55:03.159 to Marseille. I just have to say that, like that 3143 02:55:03.280 --> 02:55:05.719 was probably like the biggest standout in terms of like 3144 02:55:05.799 --> 02:55:08.520 preparing for this episode was just going back to another 3145 02:55:08.559 --> 02:55:12.639 Curtiz film. They have Steiner back. They even have Don Siegel, 3146 02:55:12.840 --> 02:55:15.159 who I don't think we talked about, the director of 3147 02:55:15.200 --> 02:55:19.079 the Lineup and Dirty Harry. He was the montage director 3148 02:55:19.079 --> 02:55:21.520 at Warner Brothers at the time, so he worked on 3149 02:55:21.680 --> 02:55:26.280 Passages to Marseille too. The ending is really the kicker 3150 02:55:26.319 --> 02:55:31.000 of it because at the end spoilers they Warner Brothers 3151 02:55:31.040 --> 02:55:34.079 decides to go one further and they have Humphrey Bogart, 3152 02:55:34.079 --> 02:55:37.920 their leading man, commit a war crime by shooting unarmed 3153 02:55:38.399 --> 02:55:42.440 Nazi pilots on the wing of a reconnaissance aircraft in 3154 02:55:42.680 --> 02:55:45.159 what is it like the South Atlantic? I got the 3155 02:55:45.159 --> 02:55:50.360 coast of Portugal and Coole movie is like structured incredibly 3156 02:55:50.399 --> 02:55:54.520 like propaganda. But that moment I was cheering and yelling 3157 02:55:54.639 --> 02:55:57.399 and screaming, I was just like you have the guts 3158 02:55:57.719 --> 02:56:01.239 to finally say no, this is actually total war. And 3159 02:56:01.360 --> 02:56:04.639 so much of American media during like during the war 3160 02:56:04.680 --> 02:56:09.040 and afterwards was kind of milk toast about that. They 3161 02:56:09.040 --> 02:56:10.879 don't really want to say, like, oh, no, this is 3162 02:56:10.920 --> 02:56:13.479 a battle to the death. But having Humphrey Bogart gun 3163 02:56:13.520 --> 02:56:17.200 down unarmed men, oh what a film? What a film? 3164 02:56:17.239 --> 02:56:20.879 And Claude Rains, Oh my goodness. Like the most amazing 3165 02:56:20.920 --> 02:56:23.319 thing I learned afterwards was Claude Rain was in a 3166 02:56:23.680 --> 02:56:25.840 gas attack. He was injured in World War One and 3167 02:56:25.920 --> 02:56:29.000 he was like ninety percent blind in his like right eye. 3168 02:56:29.239 --> 02:56:32.360 So in Passage to Marseilles, in Passage to Marseille, they 3169 02:56:32.479 --> 02:56:34.440 just have this like eye patch over him. So he's 3170 02:56:34.479 --> 02:56:40.159 like this monocular like French like air wing captain. And 3171 02:56:40.719 --> 02:56:43.840 he's fantastic in that film. I mean, he's always fantastic, 3172 02:56:44.360 --> 02:56:48.319 but it it moves, and Peter Laurie is incredible in it. 3173 02:56:48.799 --> 02:56:52.600 Everything about it is just glorious. Yeah, it's like. 3174 02:56:52.559 --> 02:56:59.200 A Saragosa manuscript kind of nesting dulls. Yeah, I mean 3175 02:56:59.239 --> 02:57:01.239 that that whole act sequence that he is kind of 3176 02:57:01.239 --> 02:57:04.520 a knockout. But again, it's like taking the hard world 3177 02:57:04.600 --> 02:57:07.399 Warner Brothers x Khan kind of thing and putting them 3178 02:57:07.399 --> 02:57:10.200 against the Nazis. They're the least French soldiers I think 3179 02:57:10.239 --> 02:57:11.799 I can think of in a movie. But I thought 3180 02:57:11.799 --> 02:57:14.280 of another one I watched for this was All Through 3181 02:57:14.280 --> 02:57:17.520 the Night, the Vincent Sherman movie, with which is like 3182 02:57:17.200 --> 02:57:18.920 I say, like Casa Blanca in New York. As far 3183 02:57:18.920 --> 02:57:21.239 as Bogart, it's got Conrad Weid Is the Nazi, it's 3184 02:57:21.239 --> 02:57:24.200 got Peter Lourie. But it's also they're not quite gangsters. 3185 02:57:24.239 --> 02:57:26.680 They're like, you know, involved in you know, gambling in 3186 02:57:26.799 --> 02:57:29.360 such in that. But they uncovered this Nazi conspiracy in 3187 02:57:29.399 --> 02:57:31.760 New York and it's a great kind of just I'd 3188 02:57:31.799 --> 02:57:34.719 never heard one. I mean, also, you know it's maybe 3189 02:57:34.799 --> 02:57:36.719 be tier Bogart, but I thought that was a lot 3190 02:57:36.719 --> 02:57:38.280 of fun as far as like films trying to cash 3191 02:57:38.319 --> 02:57:41.280 in on that Casablanca energy, because it doesn't feel like 3192 02:57:41.399 --> 02:57:44.280 it's trying to be anything grand, Like it's just a 3193 02:57:44.319 --> 02:57:46.879 solid little crime film that just happens to be tapping 3194 02:57:46.920 --> 02:57:49.719 into that anti Nazi sentiment that Casa Blanca does, and 3195 02:57:50.239 --> 02:57:54.239 just like character that is maybe out for himself becoming 3196 02:57:54.840 --> 02:57:57.120 you know, motivated to stick up for America in this 3197 02:57:57.200 --> 02:57:59.879 kind of circumstance. But yeah, I thought that was a great. 3198 02:58:00.280 --> 02:58:00.440 Yeah. 3199 02:58:00.559 --> 02:58:02.440 I think I watched like five or six things for this. 3200 02:58:02.440 --> 02:58:04.159 This fart was like Man from Cairo and sing a 3201 02:58:04.719 --> 02:58:06.239 wild ride, getting to all the way down to the 3202 02:58:06.360 --> 02:58:07.360 man with Bogart's face. 3203 02:58:08.159 --> 02:58:10.840 I'll do you one better. I rewatched barb Weier for 3204 02:58:10.920 --> 02:58:14.479 this one as well, which is as I mentioned that 3205 02:58:14.639 --> 02:58:16.959 to my wife, She's like, why are you watching barb 3206 02:58:17.040 --> 02:58:20.040 Weier for your Casablanca show? I'm like, don't you remember Hunt? 3207 02:58:20.040 --> 02:58:23.639 It's basically a remake of Casa Clanka. And as we're 3208 02:58:23.799 --> 02:58:27.040 watching it, I'm just like, see there's Captain Renault, Xander Berklaye, 3209 02:58:27.200 --> 02:58:30.040 See there's Major Strass or Steve Rail's back, you know, 3210 02:58:30.239 --> 02:58:32.479 like as they're doing this and like, oh, yeah, we 3211 02:58:32.559 --> 02:58:36.000 need these contacts or whatever to make us not be 3212 02:58:36.159 --> 02:58:38.280 retinal scanned, it was just like, those are the letters 3213 02:58:38.280 --> 02:58:41.440 of transit. So that was fantastic being able to see 3214 02:58:41.440 --> 02:58:43.719 that movie again. I've fucking loved that film. It's so 3215 02:58:43.879 --> 02:58:46.680 stupid and so great all of the same time. Man, 3216 02:58:47.040 --> 02:58:50.479 Oh and I'm there and I'm just quoting lines and 3217 02:58:50.520 --> 02:58:52.479 I hadn't seen it since when did that come out? 3218 02:58:52.520 --> 02:58:56.159 Like ninety six eighty seven, probably from the trailer, but 3219 02:58:56.639 --> 02:59:00.000 especially the guy that played a little Bruno and swamp things. 3220 02:59:00.200 --> 02:59:02.959 How he's like her BDSM customer. 3221 02:59:03.399 --> 02:59:04.520 Did you wash your hands? 3222 02:59:05.399 --> 02:59:07.920 No? I was bad. 3223 02:59:09.680 --> 02:59:14.200 I'm so glad to hear that. How about Udo Kir. 3224 02:59:15.200 --> 02:59:17.360 I had no idea about barb Weier before this, Like, 3225 02:59:17.399 --> 02:59:18.879 you put this on the viewing notes and I was 3226 02:59:18.920 --> 02:59:20.959 basically your wife. I was just like, what are you 3227 02:59:21.040 --> 02:59:23.840 talking about? This is like, like, this is crazy. You're 3228 02:59:23.840 --> 02:59:26.360 gonna make me watch a movie with the what's the 3229 02:59:26.440 --> 02:59:28.000 name of the main actress, Pamela Anderson? 3230 02:59:28.520 --> 02:59:31.680 She was sorry, Pamela, Yes. 3231 02:59:32.120 --> 02:59:34.959 Yeah, because she was married And and I watched it 3232 02:59:35.000 --> 02:59:37.319 and I was like, oh my god. Udo Kir is 3233 02:59:37.360 --> 02:59:40.879 Peter Lori. He's just like reincarnated, like he's he's German, 3234 02:59:40.959 --> 02:59:43.280 he's weird. Wow, he's you know, bald, all that kind 3235 02:59:43.280 --> 02:59:45.479 of stuff. But the sad part is he plays Sam 3236 02:59:45.520 --> 02:59:48.680 and barbed wire. He doesn't have any musical like I 3237 02:59:48.680 --> 02:59:51.479 would love to watch Udo Kir Singh. I mean, just 3238 02:59:51.479 --> 02:59:53.959 imagine the novelty. I mean, I'm sure it's terrible, but 3239 02:59:54.000 --> 02:59:56.440 it would be amazing. And and he doesn't have like 3240 02:59:56.479 --> 02:59:59.319 a meteor role. I really like Steve Railsback, though he 3241 02:59:59.479 --> 03:00:03.440 was likebsolutely chewing the scenery and making the US government 3242 03:00:03.840 --> 03:00:06.760 a bunch of Nazis that literally live in the decayed 3243 03:00:06.760 --> 03:00:09.719 Capitol building. Is like, doesn't seem so far mentioned any 3244 03:00:09.840 --> 03:00:11.120 far from nineteen ninety six. 3245 03:00:11.799 --> 03:00:14.239 Sat in the distant year of twenty seventeen, I think 3246 03:00:14.239 --> 03:00:16.479 it was, And she says something like, twenty seventeen was 3247 03:00:16.520 --> 03:00:18.680 the worst year of my life. I was like, yeah, yeah, 3248 03:00:18.719 --> 03:00:22.040 I hear you. You could seem to remember who came 3249 03:00:22.079 --> 03:00:24.959 to power that year. Yeah, yeah, I would say that 3250 03:00:25.040 --> 03:00:28.239 the Peter Lorie diuties that was actually split between Udo 3251 03:00:28.319 --> 03:00:31.399 Kir and Clint Howard, because I think he's the one 3252 03:00:31.399 --> 03:00:34.639 that ends up selling her the stuff or has you know, 3253 03:00:34.719 --> 03:00:38.159 taken those contacts or whatever. But I was getting a 3254 03:00:38.159 --> 03:00:42.079 little bit more horror from Udo Kir, And yeah, he's fantastic. 3255 03:00:42.120 --> 03:00:44.840 He could. I mean, his voice is so similar to 3256 03:00:45.159 --> 03:00:47.319 Peter Lourie's a lot of times, and I think if 3257 03:00:47.319 --> 03:00:49.840 he just turned it just a little bit, he would 3258 03:00:49.879 --> 03:00:53.719 be exactly Peter Lourie. You test me, don't you, Barb. 3259 03:00:54.440 --> 03:00:56.639 I had never seen this one before either. I remember 3260 03:00:56.879 --> 03:00:59.719 when when I was in Ithaca, like the film teacher 3261 03:00:59.799 --> 03:01:02.120 that was showing it to students, even back in like 3262 03:01:02.200 --> 03:01:04.000 the I guess in the when it was a new 3263 03:01:04.040 --> 03:01:07.239 film because it was a Casablanca riff. But watching The Guy, 3264 03:01:07.239 --> 03:01:09.680 I was reminded also of Barbarella. For some reason, it 3265 03:01:09.680 --> 03:01:12.639 felt like John It felt like John Wu's Barberrella is 3266 03:01:12.680 --> 03:01:15.000 what they were trying to go for. But that director 3267 03:01:15.079 --> 03:01:17.440 is primarily a music video director, and it has that 3268 03:01:17.520 --> 03:01:21.040 aesthetic of like a heavy metal video get merged with 3269 03:01:21.120 --> 03:01:25.840 Casablanca's political themes, and but also an approach to action 3270 03:01:25.920 --> 03:01:28.719 that feel like kind of campy but trying to be cool. 3271 03:01:29.280 --> 03:01:31.319 It kind of it felt like the amount of slow 3272 03:01:31.360 --> 03:01:33.280 motion in that movie is just like I was thinking, 3273 03:01:33.280 --> 03:01:36.000 because Pamela Anderson has had this kind of resurgence in 3274 03:01:36.040 --> 03:01:38.079 the last year with the Last show Girl, and I 3275 03:01:38.120 --> 03:01:40.239 wonder if this is going to be reassessed, you know, 3276 03:01:40.360 --> 03:01:42.239 as a forward as an ahead of its time kind 3277 03:01:42.280 --> 03:01:44.319 of cult film. It's very over the top, so it's 3278 03:01:44.360 --> 03:01:46.639 a different kind of It's not gonna be a Golden 3279 03:01:46.680 --> 03:01:49.840 Globe nominee kind of movie for her, but yeah, it's interesting, 3280 03:01:49.879 --> 03:01:51.360 and yeah, I would have never thought of this for 3281 03:01:51.399 --> 03:01:53.840 Casablanca episode until you put it on the list. 3282 03:01:54.680 --> 03:01:58.280 It's nicely lit in photographed too. Like going back to it, 3283 03:01:58.280 --> 03:02:01.520 it felt like so nostout because this is not like 3284 03:02:01.760 --> 03:02:04.159 the greatest script. It's not the greatest locale all this 3285 03:02:04.200 --> 03:02:06.319 kind of stuff, but it's like shot on film. It 3286 03:02:06.399 --> 03:02:08.639 shot at the docks, and they have like real fights, 3287 03:02:08.920 --> 03:02:10.959 like they were up on a giant crane and you 3288 03:02:11.000 --> 03:02:13.360 could tell that there was stuntmen actually up in the air. 3289 03:02:13.719 --> 03:02:15.360 I mean they probably had pads and all that kind 3290 03:02:15.360 --> 03:02:17.840 of stuff, but it felt tactile. They have a few 3291 03:02:17.879 --> 03:02:20.280 digital effects in it, and like Matt paintings and stuff 3292 03:02:20.319 --> 03:02:22.680 like that. I think the pivy remark that I had 3293 03:02:22.719 --> 03:02:26.159 when I realized what I was watching was like giving 3294 03:02:26.159 --> 03:02:30.079 the Humphrey Bogart character from Casablanca giant implants is quite 3295 03:02:30.079 --> 03:02:30.600 the choice. 3296 03:02:31.600 --> 03:02:36.360 Just ridiculous we're talking about like, oh, yeah, Cassive Blanc 3297 03:02:36.520 --> 03:02:39.879 was just another production. You know, it was just lightning 3298 03:02:39.879 --> 03:02:43.440 in a bottle, And then you see what the film 3299 03:02:43.600 --> 03:02:46.760 could have been if it was remade in just a 3300 03:02:46.799 --> 03:02:50.680 little bit of a different way. Yes, to see how 3301 03:02:50.719 --> 03:02:53.120 it turns out, And yeah, it's so reminded me of 3302 03:02:53.159 --> 03:02:57.200 those mid nineties sci fi films. I was picking up 3303 03:02:57.200 --> 03:03:00.479 a little Johnny mammonic in this one as well. You 3304 03:03:00.479 --> 03:03:03.399 know you mentioned Barbarrella. I can totally see that and 3305 03:03:03.520 --> 03:03:06.559 just yeah, those ridiculous opening credits where it's just all 3306 03:03:07.040 --> 03:03:10.639 guys hosing her down while music's just pumping and she's 3307 03:03:11.399 --> 03:03:14.799 not really stripping. She's one of those strippers who doesn't strip, 3308 03:03:14.920 --> 03:03:17.079 kind of things like Strip Teas and a few other 3309 03:03:17.120 --> 03:03:20.639 movies from the time. It's like, okay, yeah, I don't 3310 03:03:20.680 --> 03:03:23.399 know what her she is the entertainment as well as 3311 03:03:23.440 --> 03:03:25.319 the person that owns the bar. I guess they just 3312 03:03:25.319 --> 03:03:27.879 saved a little bit of money. There was no piano 3313 03:03:27.920 --> 03:03:30.559 player that they necessarily needed. They just could throw barb 3314 03:03:30.680 --> 03:03:31.559 up on stage. 3315 03:03:31.959 --> 03:03:34.799 I bought the Arrow edition of Demolition Men, but I 3316 03:03:34.840 --> 03:03:37.120 haven't watched it with your commentary yet, But I was 3317 03:03:37.159 --> 03:03:39.239 thinking as I was watching it, like, is this something 3318 03:03:39.239 --> 03:03:41.719 that you revisited for research, like getting in touch with 3319 03:03:41.840 --> 03:03:46.280 like that nineties sci fi action slightly camp well not 3320 03:03:46.319 --> 03:03:48.280 even slightly, but like that kind of like that kind 3321 03:03:48.280 --> 03:03:51.799 of like Joel Schumacher or a crazy spectacle kind of 3322 03:03:51.879 --> 03:03:53.799 action of the nineties, Like was this something that you 3323 03:03:53.840 --> 03:03:55.360 saw like within that tradition. 3324 03:03:56.239 --> 03:03:58.280 Oh, I would definitely say so. And I didn't have 3325 03:03:58.319 --> 03:04:01.000 to revisit it for that commentary because barb Weare lives 3326 03:04:01.000 --> 03:04:03.079 in my heart with me every day. 3327 03:04:03.159 --> 03:04:04.879 You pray at the altar of Barbed Wire. 3328 03:04:05.200 --> 03:04:10.639 Any movie that has timu Lister, Timil Morris and Jack 3329 03:04:10.760 --> 03:04:13.760 Knows were they, Steve rails Back, Udo kir I mean, 3330 03:04:13.959 --> 03:04:17.559 Clinton Howard, just so many amazing people in this film. 3331 03:04:17.639 --> 03:04:20.639 You can't go wrong with these character actors, this ninety 3332 03:04:20.760 --> 03:04:23.280 set of character actors. And the only thing that I 3333 03:04:23.360 --> 03:04:26.520 really disliked was just how small verl Timeylister had because 3334 03:04:26.559 --> 03:04:30.440 I was pounting on him to really show us his 3335 03:04:30.840 --> 03:04:31.559 stuff in this. 3336 03:04:32.440 --> 03:04:34.239 We need to get you a theater like the Brattle, 3337 03:04:34.479 --> 03:04:36.840 and we need to get barb Weier week. You know 3338 03:04:36.959 --> 03:04:40.000 you programming that you can start the cult in Detroit. 3339 03:04:40.520 --> 03:04:40.799 Yes. 3340 03:04:41.239 --> 03:04:42.920 And by the way, the actor whose name I couldn't 3341 03:04:42.920 --> 03:04:46.799 remember was Nicholas Worth also not just little Bruno but 3342 03:04:46.920 --> 03:04:50.239 also fantastic in Dark Man as well. 3343 03:04:50.479 --> 03:04:52.040 He's the killer from Don't Answer the Phone. 3344 03:04:52.760 --> 03:04:54.920 I don't want to like do like a total downer 3345 03:04:54.959 --> 03:04:57.479 because barb Weire is like so much fun. But Mike, 3346 03:04:57.559 --> 03:04:59.639 I think you and I watched the same movie in 3347 03:04:59.680 --> 03:05:02.200 Prepper for this, which was a night in Castle Blank 3348 03:05:02.200 --> 03:05:03.920 of the Marx Brothers movie from forty six. 3349 03:05:03.879 --> 03:05:07.120 Oh yeah, yeah, and I forgot that and maybe I 3350 03:05:07.719 --> 03:05:11.040 meant to forget it, but I couldn't make my way 3351 03:05:11.079 --> 03:05:14.200 through that one either. Holy oh oh. 3352 03:05:14.360 --> 03:05:17.600 Yeah, okay, I it's just I uh. 3353 03:05:17.879 --> 03:05:20.879 Philly Marx Brothers movies, you know, like the guy that 3354 03:05:20.920 --> 03:05:23.360 plays Sasha was and Duck Soup one of my favorites. 3355 03:05:23.399 --> 03:05:24.159 You know he's in there. 3356 03:05:24.200 --> 03:05:26.639 He's like, I have failed investadors. I know it, I 3357 03:05:26.760 --> 03:05:29.959 know it, you idiot. I'm sorry, you have muddled everything. 3358 03:05:30.280 --> 03:05:33.319 If you started the revolution as I planned during the turmoil, 3359 03:05:33.360 --> 03:05:35.360 I could have stepped in and placed Fredonia under the 3360 03:05:35.319 --> 03:05:36.360 Sylvanian flag. 3361 03:05:36.639 --> 03:05:37.479 Our flag? 3362 03:05:37.600 --> 03:05:40.920 What's five flag? Bla, your excellency, you have no idea? 3363 03:05:40.920 --> 03:05:42.479 How fuck look he's in Fredonia. 3364 03:05:42.559 --> 03:05:45.079 Oh yes, I've known of that too. That's why I 3365 03:05:45.079 --> 03:05:46.680 have two spies shadowing him. 3366 03:05:47.079 --> 03:05:49.399 Duck Soup feels like, oh, we performed this in front 3367 03:05:49.399 --> 03:05:52.559 of audiences. We really owned these bits. We had all 3368 03:05:52.559 --> 03:05:55.360 this stuff going, and then he come to a movie 3369 03:05:55.399 --> 03:05:58.000 that's so much later, like Night in Casablanca, and you're 3370 03:05:58.040 --> 03:06:00.959 like and these jokes just kind of I don't ring 3371 03:06:01.079 --> 03:06:04.360 like they ran them in front of anybody before. What 3372 03:06:04.399 --> 03:06:06.799 were your impressions on Night in Casablanca. 3373 03:06:07.639 --> 03:06:09.520 I can say that I watched it, but I like 3374 03:06:09.600 --> 03:06:12.680 sort of half watched it. I was like peeling orangese 3375 03:06:13.040 --> 03:06:15.399 to make ors just and I was like watching it 3376 03:06:15.440 --> 03:06:18.879 at the same time. It's insane to me because I'm 3377 03:06:18.920 --> 03:06:21.879 with you, like cig Rumin is good in it. He 3378 03:06:22.000 --> 03:06:24.440 just all he says is fine, over and over and 3379 03:06:24.440 --> 03:06:26.719 over again. He is basically like a one note character, 3380 03:06:26.959 --> 03:06:29.200 but he's still good because you know, he's that classic, 3381 03:06:29.360 --> 03:06:32.079 you know, Vaudeville. I'm here to set up the jokes, 3382 03:06:32.079 --> 03:06:34.559 all that kind of stuff. You know, people complain about 3383 03:06:34.680 --> 03:06:38.959 Zeppo in the March Brothers movies, and they just replace 3384 03:06:39.040 --> 03:06:42.120 them with the most whitebread couple in the world. I 3385 03:06:42.200 --> 03:06:44.120 just wanted to die every time they were on screen. 3386 03:06:44.479 --> 03:06:46.319 And I feel sorry for bringing it up now because 3387 03:06:46.440 --> 03:06:48.040 I bring up the memory and now we're going to 3388 03:06:48.079 --> 03:06:50.920 talk about it. But I did want to bring up 3389 03:06:50.959 --> 03:06:53.799 the one interesting thing about Night in Casablanca in relation 3390 03:06:53.840 --> 03:06:56.639 to the original, because it's not really a parody, you know, 3391 03:06:56.680 --> 03:06:59.000 it's just set at Casablanca, doesn't really have the same 3392 03:06:59.040 --> 03:07:02.239 thing is that there are people in brown face in 3393 03:07:02.879 --> 03:07:06.200 A Night in Casablanca and like from forty two to 3394 03:07:06.239 --> 03:07:10.280 forty six already, like they've just decided, oh no, we're 3395 03:07:10.319 --> 03:07:13.520 not casting base on nationality and having people speak in 3396 03:07:13.559 --> 03:07:16.079 the original language. And I actually looked up most of 3397 03:07:16.120 --> 03:07:18.719 the cast for A Night in Casablanca. Eighty percent of 3398 03:07:18.799 --> 03:07:21.200 them are from the Midwest, and they're putting on these 3399 03:07:21.280 --> 03:07:26.719 ridiculous accents. Harpo, Groucho, Chico, they have their scene, especially 3400 03:07:26.719 --> 03:07:29.360 the musical sequences. I love you know, they're just simple, 3401 03:07:29.840 --> 03:07:32.719 but yes, I'm right there with you where you can 3402 03:07:32.760 --> 03:07:34.559 tell that they did not hammer this out. And it's 3403 03:07:34.600 --> 03:07:37.879 a real shame because Groucho is still fast with the 3404 03:07:37.959 --> 03:07:40.840 jokes and there are great sequences in it, but you 3405 03:07:41.040 --> 03:07:44.719 just have to have the structure to hang those jokes on, 3406 03:07:44.840 --> 03:07:47.399 and it just absolutely completely falls apart. 3407 03:07:48.079 --> 03:07:50.600 I just feels bad because the Marx brothers themselves just 3408 03:07:50.719 --> 03:07:55.280 look very old. Especially Harpo just looks like he's really 3409 03:07:55.799 --> 03:07:58.719 gone round the ben in this one. My favorite parts 3410 03:07:58.760 --> 03:08:02.559 of this movie were the music sequences. I love watching 3411 03:08:02.680 --> 03:08:05.760 Chico play piano and how he was able to go 3412 03:08:05.920 --> 03:08:08.920 from what was it Hungarian Rhapsody Number two to the 3413 03:08:08.920 --> 03:08:12.200 beer Barrel Polka and the orchestra like doing that whole 3414 03:08:12.280 --> 03:08:14.719 hopping thing that they're doing as he's like coming down 3415 03:08:14.799 --> 03:08:16.879 hard on the piano, and I love the way that 3416 03:08:16.920 --> 03:08:19.959 he plays the piano where he's using finger guns to 3417 03:08:20.040 --> 03:08:23.959 hit the keys. He's just amazing and I could just 3418 03:08:24.000 --> 03:08:26.000 watch that for an hour and a half. But then they, 3419 03:08:26.040 --> 03:08:28.200 you know, all these other things, and I'm like, Okay. 3420 03:08:28.319 --> 03:08:30.799 I also like the part with the German and how 3421 03:08:30.840 --> 03:08:33.159 he's hiding out and that he can't leave his room 3422 03:08:33.200 --> 03:08:36.879 because Harpo has sucked his two pey into a vacuum. 3423 03:08:37.280 --> 03:08:39.399 I thought that whole thing where he's really fucking with 3424 03:08:39.479 --> 03:08:41.840 that guy, I thought that was great. I love what 3425 03:08:41.959 --> 03:08:46.000 a force of anarchy Harpo is. But yeah, it just 3426 03:08:46.159 --> 03:08:48.840 wasn't seeing. It just took it a long time before 3427 03:08:49.079 --> 03:08:52.799 we got Groucho, and then a lot of times in 3428 03:08:52.840 --> 03:08:55.040 these movies, it takes a long time before Groucho and 3429 03:08:55.120 --> 03:08:57.239 Chico have a scene together. And just the way that 3430 03:08:57.520 --> 03:09:00.840 Groucho is com constantly putting down cheeks go some of 3431 03:09:00.879 --> 03:09:03.520 the best insults of all times where they just rang hollow. 3432 03:09:03.559 --> 03:09:06.159 In this one, absolutely. I will say for the last 3433 03:09:06.200 --> 03:09:08.479 thing is at the ending they have a DC three 3434 03:09:08.639 --> 03:09:11.000 They have stunned men on an actual runway with the 3435 03:09:11.040 --> 03:09:13.760 engines running and this going down the tarmac, and is 3436 03:09:13.760 --> 03:09:15.399 incredible to see it because you can tell that it's 3437 03:09:15.440 --> 03:09:18.760 actually really done and it's like forty six so they 3438 03:09:18.760 --> 03:09:21.079 have all of the surplus war material, so they're basically 3439 03:09:21.159 --> 03:09:24.559 just destroying whatever they can get. That ending was was 3440 03:09:24.799 --> 03:09:28.799 mildly and from the perspective of watching of watching those people, 3441 03:09:28.959 --> 03:09:31.120 but yeah, no. The thing about the March Brothers that 3442 03:09:31.159 --> 03:09:33.520 I always go back to and I can always always 3443 03:09:33.600 --> 03:09:36.840 talk about is that there's a moment each and every 3444 03:09:36.879 --> 03:09:39.760 single March Brothers movies where Chico and Harpo they start 3445 03:09:39.760 --> 03:09:43.280 playing their instruments and the mask basically falls from their 3446 03:09:43.280 --> 03:09:46.600 face like they're no longer the character that they play 3447 03:09:47.079 --> 03:09:49.479 every other time because they have to focus and you 3448 03:09:49.520 --> 03:09:53.040 can tell that they've been drilled from childhood playing on 3449 03:09:53.120 --> 03:09:56.719 stage endlessly and they are laser focused, and you know, 3450 03:09:56.879 --> 03:09:59.879 he doesn't smile, he doesn't like do goofy faces, and 3451 03:10:00.079 --> 03:10:03.399 Harpo either, and I just love that dropping of the 3452 03:10:03.479 --> 03:10:05.840 mask where you can tell, oh, no, these people are 3453 03:10:05.920 --> 03:10:07.360 consummate professionals. 3454 03:10:07.680 --> 03:10:09.399 All right, we're going to take another break and play 3455 03:10:09.399 --> 03:10:12.200 a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages. 3456 03:10:13.399 --> 03:10:15.920 Dumb a person lacking mental. 3457 03:10:15.600 --> 03:10:17.600 Power when you're the most annoying down in the world. 3458 03:10:22.719 --> 03:10:33.319 Stupid a person below normal intelligence. Jim Carrey, Jeff Daniels, 3459 03:10:34.520 --> 03:10:37.559 Dumb and Dumber Luck. 3460 03:10:39.040 --> 03:10:40.639 Yes, from Uline Home Video. 3461 03:10:40.760 --> 03:10:44.319 It's the smash it that's redefining comedy and has critics 3462 03:10:44.360 --> 03:10:53.200 and audiences across the country. Ratings Yeah, obnoxiously triumph. Dumb 3463 03:10:53.239 --> 03:10:56.040 and Dumber makes you laugh out loud for almost its 3464 03:10:56.280 --> 03:11:00.479 entire running time. Spectacularly dumb. Jim Carrey gives his funniest 3465 03:11:00.520 --> 03:11:03.760 performance by far, the hippiest and most hilarious of Jim 3466 03:11:03.840 --> 03:11:09.440 Carrey's films, Dumb and Dumber from You Line Home Video. 3467 03:11:09.719 --> 03:11:10.079 That's right. 3468 03:11:10.159 --> 03:11:12.680 We'll be back next week with another cinematic classic, The 3469 03:11:12.760 --> 03:11:15.559 Fairly Brothers Dumb and Dummer. Until then, I want to 3470 03:11:15.600 --> 03:11:18.079 thank my co host Bill and Federico. So, Bill, what 3471 03:11:18.280 --> 03:11:19.440 is keeping you busy lately? 3472 03:11:20.719 --> 03:11:24.000 Doing a bunch of commentaries for Blu Ray. I think 3473 03:11:24.079 --> 03:11:26.360 the ones I can talk about Baby It's You is 3474 03:11:26.440 --> 03:11:29.040 coming out soon. The John Sales movie. I did a 3475 03:11:29.159 --> 03:11:34.040 solo commentary profunciate editions, and also did one for Racing 3476 03:11:34.079 --> 03:11:36.120 with the Moon, speaking of nineteen forty two and World 3477 03:11:36.159 --> 03:11:39.319 War two era, the Richard Benjamin film that Maria Gates 3478 03:11:39.360 --> 03:11:41.600 and I did a commentary for that film, and I 3479 03:11:41.719 --> 03:11:45.079 also did one for four forty four Last Down Earth, 3480 03:11:45.120 --> 03:11:47.600 the able for our movie with Chris O'Neill. So these 3481 03:11:47.639 --> 03:11:49.280 are all things I've just come out in the last 3482 03:11:49.319 --> 03:11:51.799 few weeks. So that's some of the stuff that I've 3483 03:11:51.799 --> 03:11:52.959 been working out is keeping me busy. 3484 03:11:53.799 --> 03:11:55.360 And Frederica, what's new in your world? 3485 03:11:55.479 --> 03:11:58.440 Sir? Can I just say I love how next week 3486 03:11:58.719 --> 03:12:01.680 you're going to Dumb and Dumber and they're like, it's 3487 03:12:01.760 --> 03:12:04.360 like high art low art, but they're both masterpieces in 3488 03:12:04.399 --> 03:12:08.159 their own domain. It's like it's a perfect distillation of 3489 03:12:08.200 --> 03:12:10.920 what I love about this show. I was just gonna say, 3490 03:12:11.399 --> 03:12:14.799 I do film editing, and when I can, I do 3491 03:12:15.040 --> 03:12:17.879 a little bit of programming along with watching far too 3492 03:12:17.959 --> 03:12:21.000 many films. I'm always looking forward to Nitrate, as you 3493 03:12:21.479 --> 03:12:24.239 neatly mentioned during the recording. But I do write for 3494 03:12:24.319 --> 03:12:27.559 a substack called Air the Sunrises, and you can find 3495 03:12:27.600 --> 03:12:31.360 it at e TSR. Dot substack dot com. That's Echo 3496 03:12:31.479 --> 03:12:34.920 Tango Sierra Romeo dot substack dot com. On there, you 3497 03:12:34.959 --> 03:12:37.959 can also find a little article about how much the 3498 03:12:38.040 --> 03:12:40.559 Projection Booth has meant to me and why this was 3499 03:12:40.600 --> 03:12:44.040 such an honor. So Lastly, if you'd like to get 3500 03:12:44.079 --> 03:12:46.040 in contact for any reason, even if it's to tell 3501 03:12:46.079 --> 03:12:47.840 me what you thought of my comments on this show, 3502 03:12:48.200 --> 03:12:50.719 you can reach me at four through four nine six 3503 03:12:50.799 --> 03:12:53.159 four eight four one seven. I want to thank you 3504 03:12:53.280 --> 03:12:56.319 again Mike Bill, and I look forward to speaking to 3505 03:12:56.760 --> 03:12:57.200 you again. 3506 03:12:57.959 --> 03:12:59.760 Thank you again guys for being out of the show, 3507 03:12:59.840 --> 03:13:01.680 and thanks everybody for listening. If you want to hear 3508 03:13:01.719 --> 03:13:03.360 more of me shooting off my mouth, check out some 3509 03:13:03.399 --> 03:13:04.879 of the other shows that I work on. They are 3510 03:13:04.959 --> 03:13:08.360 all available at weirdingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our 3511 03:13:08.399 --> 03:13:11.040 Patreon community. If you want to join the community, visit 3512 03:13:11.120 --> 03:13:14.520 patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Every donation we get 3513 03:13:14.559 --> 03:13:16.719 helps the Projection Booth take over the world. 3514 03:13:17.239 --> 03:13:19.159 You must remember this. 3515 03:13:20.520 --> 03:13:26.000 A kiss is just a keys aside, just a side. 3516 03:13:29.280 --> 03:13:31.959 The fundamental things. 3517 03:13:31.799 --> 03:13:42.559 Applat as time goes by, and when two lovers woo, 3518 03:13:43.520 --> 03:13:45.360 they still say I love you. 3519 03:13:46.520 --> 03:13:54.520 All that you can rely, no matter of the future, 3520 03:13:55.239 --> 03:13:57.239 praise as. 3521 03:13:57.520 --> 03:14:08.760 Time goes by, moonlight and all songs never out of day. 3522 03:14:10.239 --> 03:14:14.000 Hearts full of passion, jealousy and hey. 3523 03:14:15.280 --> 03:14:20.399 Woman needs man, and man must have his maid that 3524 03:14:20.879 --> 03:14:23.440 no one can den. 3525 03:14:25.760 --> 03:14:29.719 It's still the same old story. A fight for love 3526 03:14:29.799 --> 03:14:37.040 and glory, a case of do a die. The world 3527 03:14:37.319 --> 03:14:45.920 will always well olcome love us as time goes to ball. 3528 03:15:14.040 --> 03:15:17.680 Light and love songs never out. 3529 03:15:17.520 --> 03:15:24.559 Of day, arts full of passion, jealousy and hate. Woman 3530 03:15:24.799 --> 03:15:29.360 needs man, and man must have his maid that. 3531 03:15:29.799 --> 03:15:32.479 No one can dinner. 3532 03:15:34.879 --> 03:15:38.920 It's still the same old story, a fight for love 3533 03:15:39.040 --> 03:15:41.360 and glory, a case. 3534 03:15:41.159 --> 03:15:42.520 Of do a die. 3535 03:15:45.680 --> 03:15:54.000 The world will always welcome Love us as time goods 3536 03:15:54.319 --> 03:15:54.879 and ball