Speaker 1: You were listening to a pleasure podcast. For more from
our sex podcast collective, visit pleasure Podcasts dot com.
Speaker 2: My job today is hosting the Holly Randall Unfiltered Podcast.
My name is Keelie Rankin and I am interviewing the
one and only, extraordinary beautiful Holly Randall. Holly Randall is
an erotic photographer and director. She is also a visionary
and entrepreneur, a second generation Playboy photographer, an incredible storyteller,
and an all around badass goddess woman. So everybody, let's
welcome Holly.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm excited to be here. I've always
wanted to be on this show. This is amazing. Who
would have guest?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: But seriously, guys, So yeah, we decided to do a
flip the script thing. If you're wondering, like, why is
Holly sitting here? And why does somebody who sort of
looks like Holly but not exactly sitting in that seat?
We decided to flip the script today and Kili's going
to interview me. And I am very excited about this
because we're covering my favorite topic, which is me.
Speaker 2: It's our favorite topic as well. Hollie, you are an
incredible woman.
Speaker 3: Listen, it's everybody's favorite. Tu.
Speaker 2: I mean, you truly are an incredible woman. You have
done incredible things, and everyone that knows you loves you.
Everyone in the industry loves you. Everyone that comes on
this show loves you. You make people feel important and
well taken care of and loved, and when you shoot them,
they look beautiful. You have done incredible things. So I
wonder if you can actually just tell everybody, in case
they don't already know, what are the awards that you
have actually won in this industry, because it's it's, you know,
pretty incredible.
Speaker 3: Well, there actually aren't that many, so it won't take
me long to get through them. I have. I only
won my first Avian Award two years ago, and I
got inducted into the AVN Hall of Fame, which obviously
was wonderful. I do feel like they did it because
I complained about it on this podcast for years until
I think they were if. I like, well, someone just
give Holly that trophy, so she shuts up, so then
I got it squeaky reel, it gets the grease. And
then I collaborate a movie that I produced called Broken
Butterfly with Jeffrey John Hart, my amazing friend and director,
one Best featurette at AVN and at x BIZ last year,
so that was amazing, and then the year previous to that,
the other movie that we did together, Hopeless, one Best
featurette at XPIZ. Otherwise I have one Best Photography sete
to expis twice, I think, And in terms of like
the big, big adult industry awards, I think that's it.
Speaker 2: But you also just won the Podcast Award.
Speaker 3: Oh well, so I didn't win an award, but so
what I got was there was the podcast Pantheon. It's
a book. It's a collective of the one hundred and
one most impactful and like culturally significant podcasts in the world,
and right my podcast was in there, which definitely feels
like a massive win to me, huge because I was
like alongside this American Life and Cereal and all of
these kind of massive shows that I would never think
that anybody would ever say in the same breath. So
that was that was really cool. But my podcast has
never actually won like an award. It's coming, you never know,
you never know. I mean every year I get nominated
for AVINA Best Podcast Award, and every year I lose.
Speaker 2: So I was thinking about preparing for interviewing you, which
I feel incredibly honored that you chose me. It's really
a privilege to be sitting up here. I'm not really
sure how I got here, but here I am. But
this morning I was in Santa Monica and I was
walking down the beach and or I guess, like along
the strip, and I'm wearing a very bright like farm
rio sweater, so it's like loud and kind of obnoxious.
And I look over and I make eye contact with
this man riding his bike next to another person down
down the way, and turns out is Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh,
And I thought, Wow, what are the chances coming here
to interview you, to come on this podcast to talk
about sex and porn and all of these incredible like
fantasy body spaces, which is really what I think of porn,
as it's like this fantasy and porn, and here is
the man who embodies that so fully, like Arnold Schwarzenegger
is the ultimate like phantom see.
Speaker 3: Body person out there. And I thought it was.
Speaker 2: Such such an interesting kind of like oh men, of
like yeah, this is supposed to happen today, like we're
supposed to have this conversation and really jump into these things.
And it started me thinking, like when you think about
porn and you think about filming porn, and you think
about like the fantasy space, how do you hold that
inside of yourself? Like how do you make sense of
it all? How do I make sense of porn?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Like where do you hold it in terms of
like what is it?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: What are you selling?
Speaker 2: What is sex? Like?
Speaker 3: I mean I think like for me, it's so much
less of an enigma than it is for most people.
I think a lot of other people put more thought
into it than I do, simply because I grew up
around it. So it's so it was never like a
taboo topic for me. It was something that's always been
a part of my life, even like before I actually
got into the industry. So yeah, I don't know, it's
just something that never held like that mystery to me.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 3: I mean it did because obviously my parents didn't show
me their work when I was a kid, But it
was just something that like I always knew was around.
I knew that they did it. I mean for me,
I mean, porn is any other form of entertainment, it's
it's entertainment and it's sexual, and it's very explicitly sexual,
it's not suggestive, and it's something that people like to
watch to sometimes expand their sexual horizons. Most of the
time just to jerk off, which is also turned on
fun yeah, which is also great. Like this is something
that people need. I think one of the things is
that so many people forget that, you know, one of
the most basic drives of the human race is to procreate, right,
and you can only do that by having sex. So,
like people's sexual drive, whether it's repressed or stagnant or raging,
is like a massive part of like who we are
in our identity, and so many people are raised to
you know, kind of push that aside, to be ashamed
of it, compartmentalize it, and so.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just always makes.
Speaker 3: Me sad and surprises me that people have to almost
like put so much thought into like what is porn?
Like people don't really sit around and go, like what
are video games? What is Instagram?
Speaker 2: You're just saying, right, not in the way that like
the industry takes so much heat, yes for.
Speaker 3: What it actually is.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's just so much heat constantly coming to the
people who work in the adult industry and people who
are part of it. Over the years, how have you
dealt with that, Like do you feel the criticisms or
after twenty seven years, is it kind of just rolls
off your back?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I think like because again, I was
raised in a family where, you know, my parents were pornographers, right,
so I never face a family stigma, which I think
is the biggest issue for most people, right like what
are my parents going to think? Exactly what are like
my you know, my friends going to think? And it
was always like a part of my identity and like
a part of you know, who my family was growing up.
So I didn't have that problem, right, which was very
hard helpful I think. Also, honestly, I have the advantage
of being a woman and being a woman behind the camera.
I mean, we all know I ventured a little bit
into new modeling. Yeah we're going to get into that. Well,
we'll get into but that was never my intention, and
I always to say behind It was always to say
behind that, why was that? Because that's just where I
feel like I belong. The only fancing was an accident,
which we can go get to it. Well, maybe we're
going to get into it right now, but so so yeah.
So I think also because I'm a woman, you know,
that's unexpected from most people, right, A female pornographer, A
beautiful female pornographer that was young too, I mean, how
old are you when you started?
Speaker 2: Twenty and yeah, very young. Yeah, to be bossing people around,
telling them what to do, where to put their legs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yes, So I think that also shields me
from a lot of criticism because I think people maybe
feel like, oh, well, because she's a woman, she couldn't
possibly be exploitative, which is not true. I know a
lot of women that are exploitative. And then I don't know.
I think also because I live in Los Angeles, which
is a pretty like open, you know, city with more
progressive I don't face that stigma so often. Certainly has happened.
I mean I've seen it happen more like in business's
that's where the stigma affects me the most, Like I
try and branch out. Yeah, I mean I've been denied insurance,
I've been denied credit cards when I try to, Like
the most common thing is when I try to find
a location to shoot in if it's poorn people are
like absolutely not, And why is that? Why are people
anti Well, there's two reasons, and one of them I
totally get. They don't want their home associated with adult
like sometimes a lot of these places will also do
like weddings, and they don't want people who might be
considering renting their house for a wedding. I see it,
and like, my sister got gang banged number thirteen, right,
which I which.
Speaker 2: But it's like you were watching my sister game being
number thirteen, but it's just like the yeah, okay, interesting,
I know.
Speaker 3: And then the other reason is people generally just don't
want you, like coming on their couch, yeah, right, when
jizzing on their throw pillows, right, which I totally understand,
which makes sense, Like no one even wants that happening,
Like an airbnbaer in a hotel, No, we don't want
to know about those, right, but that happens in your
airbnb nobody's films.
Speaker 2: This, yes, right, exactly exactly. That's fascinating.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think like business stuff right when I'm
trying to branch out and do other things getting sponsors
for this podcast, A lot of people don't want to
sponsor this podcast because of the nature of the content
that I do, even before I found this podcast studio,
and we only talk about the industry here, right, Nobody
gets naked, nobody has sex.
Speaker 2: Nobody's coming in here. No one's coming in here.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, well you might be out there. But you know,
I do look great today.
Speaker 2: You do look great. Thank you.
Speaker 3: I got my hair make done because I was like,
we're gonna talk about me.
Speaker 2: I'm a look good. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I would go to various studios and they were like, oh,
your show's about the adult industry. We don't want you
in here, And.
Speaker 5: I'm like, literally, why we're just sitting here talking and
even like just the discussion of the industry now, So
that's where I see most of the stigma really is
in the professional realm.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think of like porn as being this
really important part of society. I mean, it allows us
consumers to view people who are willing to take that
risk to put themselves on camera and to be all
day at a shoot and have sex and let other
people view them. I mean, it's a really important part
that we can all get to see. I'm curious, like
how you think of sex and porn in society. Do
you see it like if it were to disappear tomorrow,
what do you think it would take away from society?
Speaker 3: I think would be a serious problem because if people
aren't able to release, like their sexual you know, satisfy
their sexual needs, release their sexual attention through some form
of entertainment, that is, you know, maybe detached from actually
being with another person, which you know, for some people
is just safe. For most people's just convenient. I think
that would that could be a problem. I mean, you look,
you look at the countries that have outlawed porn, and
you see the most amount of.
Speaker 2: Violence against women in those countries. Right.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, the more important to try to repress people's
sexual drives, the more it comes out in other not
healthy ways, right, harmful ways, harmful waves, obspredatory ways. Yes,
so I think that it plays a very important role
in our society, but people don't want to think about
it or talk about it, mostly like in the United States,
you know, like America consumes the most amount of porn,
but like hates it the most.
Speaker 2: Right, we have such a problem with that people taking
their clothes off, or people enjoying themselves.
Speaker 3: And just sex in general.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I often think sometimes there's also this part of our
society that doesn't want to think that women enjoy sex, yes,
that we're carnivorous, or we could we could want all
of these things. So it's like we're just going to
pretend that's not happening because women couldn't possibly desire sex
in that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and that also plays into the whole
like question about don't you think women are degraded and
victimized in the porn industry? Right?
Speaker 2: And what do you how do you respond to that?
Speaker 3: Ah, that question makes me so bad, I mean literally
for the reason that you just said. Because when you
say that, first of all, you're instantly grouping all women
into one one little fish bowl, right, right, right, all
women are the same, right, and your whole industry is
the same, not right thing at it, it's like a
whole industry, right, And you're also taking away like women's
personal preferences and agency. So you're saying women are victims, right,
We're always victims because like, if were engaging in you know,
sexual activities on camera, we must have been forced into it.
Speaker 2: Must have been right because possibly an exactly.
Speaker 3: Exactly, so like so there you're painting women as the victim,
which is like my first thing. And then yeah, you're
taking away like their their agency and their independence and
suggesting that women couldn't make these decisions on their own,
and also that women couldn't be sexual creatures, which is
completely untrue. Women can be just as sexual, if not
more so than men. It's a spectrum. And if women
are sexual and they enjoy being exhibitionists and they want
to put themselves out there, they should be able to
do so. And you never hear people lamenting about like
the men in the industry, you know, you never get
people going like, oh, those poor men, there's such victims.
R you know, the porn industry. It's always the women, right,
The women are always the weaker sex. And so yeah,
that question makes me very mad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I can totally understand. And I think it's
like oftentimes, you know, industries have these ideas that go
along with them, Like as a therapist, there's this idea
that like every therapist is fucked up and they're just
like went to therapy school to try and fix themselves,
aren't you. It's trying to fix myself, aren't you. I mean,
we all little fucked up. I mean, that's like the
funny thing when you start to lean into that question, yeah,
is like, who's not like a little you know, got
a little something wrong in their brain? I mean, we
all do on different levels. But there's the stigma attached
to the porn industry that like women gravitate towards it
because they have no other, you know, nothing else and
they have to have the money and someone talked them
into it. And I feel like, actually, you've been a
huge part by having women come on the show and
talk that are you know, performers saying like no, I
chose this, I want this, I enjoy this, like this
is fun for me, and you're bringing that to life,
which I think is probably why you made it into
that book about you know, the podcasts and the top
on hundred and one podcast because you really are breathing
life into that place. So no one has to walk
around with that holding that stigma.
Speaker 3: Thank you, I mean, And that was literally like the
whole reason I started this show. I didn't expect it
to do as well as it did, and I'm like
so massively grateful for it. But you know, I just
always felt that the way that people viewed the adult
industry and its specifically sex workers was just so inaccurate,
and they just did. And I always thought to myself,
I'm like, God, if they just knew them, right, if
they just like spent like a day on set with them,
like they would see what awesome people they are. And
also they're just like regular people, so I like everybody else. Ye,
So I was like, I just want and maybe I'll
do this show and they'll sit down and we'll talk
like regular people and people can see like who they
are and they can be humanize and they can see
that like they're you know, human beings with a career
that maybe is a little bit unusual.
Speaker 2: Right, right, unusual, but base and pleasure right right, It's
like this pleasure space, enjoying sex, enjoying all those pieces,
shedding shame.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's changed so much too, because
the way that like the porn industry actually just is
structured now has changed so much. So you know there,
I mean, I know a lot of women that are
very sexual that would love to do porn, but they
don't do it simply because they're afraid of the stigma.
They're afraid of what their family will think, they're afraid
of losing the opportunity to you know, pursue a different
career later on. I mean, when you enter the porn industry,
you don't have to just think about the fact that
like you're having sex on camera and you know, STDs
and you know, maybe like lack of intimacy and all
these other kinds of things. You have to also think about,
like the way that society is now going to view
you for the rest of your life. Right, And it's
very unfair, right, you know, like just because somebody's a
sex worker doesn't mean that they could also like be
a wonderful nurse. In fact, there's like a lot of
correlation between the two. There's a lot of like giving
and caring and absolutely body awareness and all of that
between the two, right, So you know, I mean I've
always felt that the stigma surrounding the porn industry is
more damaging than the porn industry itself. It's the way
that like people see you afterwards, and it's just comes
from such a place of misunderstanding and personal shame about sex.
And that's what I hope is starting to change. And
I feel like it's starting to change because now women
have so much more agency over.
Speaker 2: Their career, right, Right, with Only Fans.
Speaker 3: It's funny. I had a meeting with the people at
Only Fans the other day and I can't remember how
it came up, but I said to them, I'm like,
you guys know that you changed the entire adult industry right,
like completely, And they.
Speaker 2: Were like.
Speaker 3: It was just like funny, because what can you.
Speaker 2: Say to that?
Speaker 4: But it was just it was this moment where I
was just like, what do you guys think about that,
you know, like having changed our industry so and do
you think changed for the better or do you think
there's like give and take or I think there's a
little bit of.
Speaker 3: Give and take, but I think mostly for the better.
I think the fact that the power and independence financial
independence lies in the hands of the creators is so
much better because that makes for a better working environment.
I've noticed that since Only Fans started, like brands have
really changed the way that they treat talent, right because
now they see like the talent has all the power,
you know, and they can't treat them like a disposable thing,
right and they have to respect them, and now like
the talent are the marketing machine that they need. And
a lot of people come in now with the idea
of they're literally like marketing geniuses and they're like, but
I'm going to have sex and that's going to be
my avenue. But like all they think about is they're
so focused on data, ab testing and like all this
kind of shit that you know, most people wouldn't associate
with a porn star.
Speaker 2: Right that they're actually thinking about these things, that they're
managing their whole image in order to become successful and
to survive in this industry, because you've seen it change
so much, I mean, right with your parents and starting
with like DVDs and VHSS and shifting into free porn
and now OnlyFans. And I'm imagining a lot of money
came out of directing, which is what you were predominantly
doing for so many years.
Speaker 3: Is that new No, Okay, I wish directing paid very little,
like compared to what talent made. I mean, I definitely
made less than talent. It's funny because you to be
a director and to really stick to the job and
continue to do it, you have to actually like really
love it because it's a lot of work for not
that much money compared to like the mainstream industry, especially
like they get a lot of right. I mean, I
remember when I did my Playboy TV show. I'd never
been on like a big professional set like that before,
with such a massive crew that really, you know, followed
the protocol that most mainstream sets do. There were like,
I don't know, like seven different producers. I was like,
I thought there was only one producer. You know.
Speaker 2: That just shows my naivity about the whole industry. By
the way, I'm not associated or faili with Hollywood, so oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's like an executive producer, there's a line producer,
there's like a story producer. There's like all these people
that take care of a very specific part of the job,
which is great, and make sure that everything is executed well.
And also they're like, you know, bigger budgets, bigger, just
bigger overall and need more attention. As a director and porn,
you're not just the director. You also have to be
the producer. You also have to be the bookkeeper. You
also have to be sometimes the stylist. You also have
to like you know, organize the schedule maybe sometimes like
plan locations. Like I mean, it depends on your budget
and what you have. But I have done everything. I've
been the pa, I mean, I've wiped up, come off
the couch.
Speaker 2: I don't care.
Speaker 3: It needs to get done, you know, right.
Speaker 2: So it was like a startup is like everyone's playing
every role at any moment, just like who need hands
on deck?
Speaker 3: Let's go, Yes, But you never get out of that
startup role. You just just live in the startup.
Speaker 2: You're just living in it.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of work directing porn, and I think
a lot of people don't realize how much work it is.
Speaker 2: So when you're on set and you're filming, are you
just behind then the camera? Like filming with the camera?
Is that what you were mainly? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I forgot to throw in. I was also the
photographer and the videographer and sometimes the editor too. Right well,
because photos are your main your love.
Speaker 2: I love photos when we're in a studio, beautiful photos everywhere.
I'm guessing most of them are yours.
Speaker 3: Yeah, They're all mine, except for the one of my
mom in the seventies, which obviously idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know they're beautiful. You're an incredible photographer. Most
people may not know about you.
Speaker 3: Actually, no, it kind of makes me sad now, like
this podcast has dominated my career so much, which I'm
so grateful for. But yeah, I feel like a lot
of people don't know that I actually am a.
Speaker 2: Photographer, right, yeah, an incredible photographer, which is hard to do. Yeah,
thank you.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it would again depend on the budget. I
mean I came from a world. I came from a
very small budget world. So I shot camera as well
and I directed.
Speaker 2: What does a small budget like, what does that look like?
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes I would only get like the three thousand,
thirty five hundred for a shoot, Oh.
Speaker 2: My gosh, and like really small budget.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like the talent, like the female talents like
a thousand dollars, like male talents like eight hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: That is like eight hundred dollars. Yeah, I just begging
people to come to work for you, like you know,
I don't know.
Speaker 3: I always pay people their rates. I would do two
scenes back to back, okay, and then I would shoot
something from my website as well, like a solo okay.
But I had to make that dollar. I had to
stretch that dollar wow, you know, like it was and
you know I had to feed people too, like.
Speaker 2: All the things that happened on a set, like you're
responsible for yeah, all this stuff, so all those things,
so you know it would be like me and one assistant,
I would just do everything.
Speaker 3: And then as I you know, got further along in
my career and companies like I mean really like Twisti's
was the one that like gave me the really started
giving me like a great gave me like a first
real budget that was like good that I could hire
more people to do stuff for me.
Speaker 2: Were you when that happened?
Speaker 3: I mean, this was like I don't know, five six
years ago. I mean I worked for Twisties for like
I don't know, like fifteen years, but there was a
time towards like the end of my career, so I
don't know, it was like the last seven years of
me shooting for them or something like that. I don't
know that they because they went through a lot of changes,
right that they just suddenly one day they were like,
we're going to give you a real budget, and we're
going to like change the way that we do things,
and we're going to give you all of these tools
to really be able to produce fantastic content. We're going
to give you less work, but we're going to give
you more money to do that. Work, which was like amazing,
and so then I was able to get like that's
when I actually hired Jeff, who you know, directs all
the movies that we produced together, because they gave me
a budget for a steadicam operator and I was like, yes, yes,
But again, because of the stigma of porn, I had
a hard time finding somebody that was okay shooting an
adult wow. And even when we first start, this is
so funny, and Jeff has talked about this, so I
know I can be open about this. But when he
first started working for me, because you know, he came
from mainstream, right, he was like, Okay, I'll shoot the
teas part at the beginning, right, and this was just
the solos, but when the girl masturbased, I leave. Oh,
So he would shoot the teas part and then he
would like pack up and go, and then I'd have
to shoot the solo masturbation part, and the model would
usually be like where's he going, and I'm like, well,
he doesn't want to be around for that part, and
they'd be kind of like okay, right. Or the worst
part was if for some reason we were doing things
in reverse, which would we would do sometimes like say
if I don't know. We had to get out of
a location earlier. And you know, we don't shoot sound
when we're doing the teas part because it's a slow
motion they put music over it. But we shoot sound
during the masturbation. So like if we shot the masturbation
before the teas, then we'd be done with sound and
then people could be packing up right while I'm shooting
while we're shooting the teas because the sound doesn't matter.
So like in those cases, he'd like have to go
in the other room while we shoot the masturbation and
then come back in and then shoot. This is really awkward. Obviously,
over time he just stay yeah, and now he just
shoots everything. Don't care. But at the beginning, you know,
we had to like work around these parameters that he had.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's so interesting, is like this the levels in
which shame permeates like into our society around sex. And
I know, like working with clients on day to day basis,
which is what I primarily do. I don't interview people
like beautiful Holly, you know, sex or the shame part,
and sex is such a such a huge part of
like what gets in the way of people actually enjoying
their bodies, enjoying their partners. And I'm so curious for you, Holly,
if you will, like do you still experience any shame
around sex or your body or do you feel like,
now that you've seen it all, been around it all,
like that's just sort of passed through you.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. It's kind of funny. I
almost feel ashamed of how vanilla I am.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Yeah, like you're supposed to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And I used to be like way more
into like BDSX, but.
Speaker 2: You had a boyfriend that was like yeah, And I
like to be.
Speaker 3: Like tied up and spanked and that kind of stuff, right,
Not that I don't enjoy these things every once in
a while, but you know, like I'm older, I'm a mom,
so I you know, my sexual escapades have you know,
mellowed out a little bit more so. But yeah, I
would say that, like I don't think I mean, look,
I think I had like, not necessarily shame, but uncertainty
around sex when I was younger, just because I was younger, right,
and you're certady like, am I doing it right?
Speaker 2: Do I look?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you're just uncertain about everything, right, And so
sex was obviously like a part of that. I also
had a very terrible drinking problem, and I would usually
always be wasted when I was drinking. And when I
was drinking, yes that too, but I would always be
like wasted when I was having sex. So then when
I got sober, like learn have.
Speaker 2: Sex as a thing. Sex.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but yeah, I mean I wouldn't say I
wouldn't say shame. And I will say that modeling nude
really made me feel a lot more comfortable about my
body in a where I was modeling again into in
the way that I wasn't really before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so curious. Yeah, because for so long you
were behind the camera, right taking beautiful pictures of people.
What made you? I know, there was the leak, there's
the website leak of get their photos that went live,
but it could have ended there and right, So tell
us about the journey into.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, I saw obviously, like how
the spike, the monetization spike, right, because I doubled down
when those photos leaked, and I just put them on
my website. Now, I mean they leaked on my website, thankfully,
so I just kept them up because I was like,
it's too late, may as well promote it now, right,
And so I realized that this was something that, you know,
could make I think there was a part of me
that always felt like there was no way I was
hot enough to do that, you know what I mean,
Like all the girls that I shot were young and
beautiful and perfect bodies, and I never felt like I
was in that category. So and then it was slow, really,
I mean I started posting nudes on like my snapchat
here and there because they could be deleted in twenty
four hours, so I felt like I could take it back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think honestly, like, ultimately it was fun
for you, Like there was something fun about it. I
can see in your eyes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was for sure, also like a little bit
of fear.
Speaker 2: But and I fear mostly like what people would say,
like would people be critical or.
Speaker 3: I think like fear that you know, I couldn't take it,
like I knew I couldn't take it back. I mean obviously,
like I didn't work about my family, that didn't matter.
But I think probably like fear about you know, dating, right,
because like that's always a thing. Like I know a
lot of sex workers have a hard time. Female sex
workers specifically have a hard time finding a male partner
that accepts what they do. So I'm sure that that
occurred to me. I know it occurred to me.
Speaker 2: You're like, it's okay if I'm in an adult industry
but over here behind the camera. But if I'm in
front of the camera, maybe someone won't love me. I
think I'm marriage material.
Speaker 3: Right, And I think ultimately it was the you know,
probably a big part of it. I know a big
part of it was the acceptance that my boyfriend had
around it. Who is now my husband, right, because those
leaked when you guys just started dating more. Yeah, we
were pretty new into our relationship. He had not moved
in with me yet, yeah, and he was okay with it,
and I was kind of surprised by that. Answer, So
that made me feel more comp He.
Speaker 2: Was like, well, you're beautiful, of course, like people probably
love seeing you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he just like he didn't. I mean, that's
what's so great about him too, is he has like
and that's the thing that attracts me the most to men,
is he's an enormous amount of self confidence. So he's
not worried about anything, and he trusts me, and he's
just like he doesn't really worry that much about what
other people think.
Speaker 2: It's not like he doesn't care. And that's you know,
that means a lot. Has he been.
Speaker 3: Encouraging your actually yes, so I you know, was like
I said, posting like nudes here and there, like on Snapchat.
And I think where I realized that like this was
an avenue that I should probably follow was we were
in Italy and the airline went on strike and so
like our flights got canceled. Was Italy, I mean, they're
always striking. Yeah, So it was going to cost us
like twenty five hundred dollars to come back, and I
was like, maybe I could raise this money with my titties.
And I did that this great and I.
Speaker 4: Was like okay, and.
Speaker 2: I obviously passed. How quickly did you raise the ball
like in to day And You're like, I could have
been doing this the whole time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think I knew that, but I
was like, I don't. I don't want to like go,
I want to dip my toe and I want to
really go all the way in. And then and then
we kind of talked about it, and he was like, look,
he's like and then I think I told him. I'm like, Okay,
I think I might want to start, like because I
had my only fans, but I was only putting up
like behind the scenes and like sets that I had
shot and like letting people see the stuff my work,
right yeah, which no one gave a shit about. I
could not sell that like twenty four dollars a month,
Like no one cared about the stuff I was producing, right,
They just wanted to see me naked. Oh yeah, well,
which is just sort of made me a little sad
because I feel like my work's a lot better than
me naked.
Speaker 2: But whatever.
Speaker 3: And he actually was the one who said he's like
he's like, okay, you know, if you want to do this,
He's like, then let's like do something. Let's do it. Well,
he's like, you're posting these shitty pictures of you and
the ball out. Yeah, funny because you're the photographer.
Speaker 5: But he called you out well because I was just
doing like amateur pictures on my phone in the bathroom,
because I wasn't like trying to make it professional because
I wasn't committing to it, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, you were just yeah, yeah, you were floating around.
Speaker 3: So he was like, so why don't we like, why
don't we go get like a really nice hotel room
and you get some nice lingerie and I'll shoot some
stuff of you? And why is he also a photographer?
Speaker 2: No? Okay, not at all. How'd that go? Were you
really critical of him?
Speaker 5: Hey?
Speaker 2: You know I gave him a lot of pointers. Yeah,
let's put it that way. My husband's a photographer. Whenever
he takes pictures of I take pictures of him, it's like,
we don't even you didn't even do it, yeah, because
he's too critical. So yeah, yeah, yeah, he's not your
photographer anymore? Is that he?
Speaker 3: I mean, he never really was going to be. But
you know, he was like, let's let's get a hotel room,
and he's like, why don't you give your fans like
something nice of you, Like, let's like do something that
looks better than the crap you've been shooting. And I
was like, okay, all right, he's on board.
Speaker 2: And so we did.
Speaker 3: And actually that was really great for our sex life
because he like, I've been lingerie and you know, and
he'd be and then afterwards like, you know, yeah, have
some fun, great sex.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it was actually like it was cool because it
was a new way for us to like explore our
intimacy and our relationship in a way that like we
hadn't done it before, right.
Speaker 2: And I also imagine too, like when you're in front
of the camera, when I watch you there, you do
step into these characters and these roles. It's incredible. I mean,
your only fans is incredible. Like you're you're a dom,
You're a sub, You're I feel like I saw you
it was like a pirate Wench outfits. But I thought
I was like, oh, she's like a pirate today, you know.
I mean, you really step into these roles. And I imagine,
like when I think about what helps couples have more
fun sex, it's sort of like stepping into that fantasy space,
which is what porn helps people do. It is like
step into that fantasy space. And so I wonder if, like,
as you stepping into your body and trying on lingerie
and these different characters, Yeah, if it really allows you
to be that.
Speaker 3: Role, yeah, absolutely, because I never really wear like lingerie
in my regular life. I would never like put stalking
your on and stuff, like you know, it's sexy under there.
I'm like, what am I wearing?
Speaker 2: I don't even know.
Speaker 3: It's just a new All my brows are new because
like they don't show through clothes. I have nice laingderie,
but I like never wear it that often except for
people on your only fanis well, right, But I mean
I don't wear it like day to day. It's usually
like lumpy, right, your nipples are like laced and it's
not kind of scratchy. But yeah, yeah, but you like.
Speaker 2: It because you enjoy wearing it, and so we put
it on. I do.
Speaker 3: But I have to say, like at the beginning, I
felt embarrassed. I felt like this is not right. I
should not be wearing this. Somebody else should be wearing this,
Like this doesn't feel like the person that I am,
Like I'm making too much of myself, I don't belong
in this lingerie, like I should be behind the camera
and jeans and a T shirt. So it was it
was hard, it was weird.
Speaker 2: And has that pivoted you feel like you're owning it
more now, definitely owning it more now though, I mean
I still my core, like feel like I belong behind
the camera honestly, and when people ask me, because you.
Speaker 3: Love being behind the camera, I do, Yeah, I do.
I think it's just like I'm a lot more passionate
about that because that's for me, like that creative thing
that I get to to mold, I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, versus being like the exhibitionists or getting the attention
or being seen.
Speaker 3: But it's weird though, because I love attention. Yeah, Like
I don't get me wrong, I'm not like a modest
person like I like attention, love me please. Yeah. I
don't know. Maybe it's because like for so many years
my role was on the other side, and it's like
strange to step into that. And I think maybe also too,
I hold the role and the place of like sex
workers and porn stars for me honestly, like on such
a pedestal because I respect them so much. For you,
know what they've sacrificed and what they do and the
things literally that they can do with their bodies.
Speaker 2: It's hard work.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And also like I've also always kept sort of
a boundary, like a personal professional boundary between me and
other performers, Like you know, I never date talent. I
you know, always ask them if I need to like
change clothes, like I don't. I respect and have really
strong boundaries.
Speaker 2: And that's one thing I've actually really noticed about you
and I really respect about you, is like you're so open,
like you are just this like open, playful person, but
you have very clear boundaries, which makes you very safe.
Thank you.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know, maybe I feel like I
am crossing that line by showing your body by doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not.
Speaker 3: Like, so I'm actually doing my first This is an
exclusive everybody, because actually if you watch this when it
comes out on YouTube, this would have already happened. But
I'm doing my first shoot with my very good friend
Cherie de Ville, and we're going to shoot together. We're
not going to do any don't get excited. I'm not
going to have sex with her.
Speaker 2: But we're going to die, you know.
Speaker 3: Of I mean, I never know, but yeah, we're just
going to shoot like sexy photos together, which I have
never done. Wow, And I people have asked me about that,
and I always felt like that was crossing the line.
Like that feels like now I'm stepping into territory where
I'm blurring the line between like you know, director, producer,
and talent. And that's something that is I think a
very sensitive topic in our industry because there's a lot
of directors that do blur that line, and I never
want to be one of those people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes people feel uncomfortable or there's a power dynamic,
that power but Sheri's idea. She came to you and
oh yeah, no, it was her idea.
Speaker 3: She like talked me. How long did it take?
Speaker 2: Just like one conversation she talked to you into her
Has she been working on you for a while.
Speaker 3: No, I think it was one conversation, but it was.
It's just funny because actually we had a meeting and
we were talking about what we were going to do
and she was like, Okay, what are you willing to do?
And this and that, and I almost feel like she
was like pushing my boundaries a little bit. She's like,
so you're cool with us doing like a JI together, right,
I'm like no, and she's like, well, we'll see on
the day.
Speaker 2: On stet.
Speaker 3: Oh my god is a total role reverse right right,
and nobody can out dirty talk Cherie Deville Like that's impossible.
So that feels very intimidating to me as well. Yeah,
so maybe I get to play a little bit of
like the subspace. You can just go into that line.
I think we're going to do a dynamic where she's
like the stronger one and I'm the more like innocent Like,
oh goodness, yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know. We'll see how it goes. This is
going to be great. Everyone's going to tune in for sure.
It'll be fun.
Speaker 3: I love her so much and you know, I trust
her obviously, but uh yeah, it's just something I've never
done before. So it's very exciting.
Speaker 2: It is. I'm also like totally nervous. Yeah, nervous, just
that you'll feel uncomfortable. What do you think you're nervous about?
Speaker 3: I think that and again like it's again, it's like
that that line. Just nervous about the line what we
feel like I've always like so adamantly put myself in
the space where I'm on this side of the camera
and you were on that side of the camera, and
like the two shall not meet, and that's happening now.
Speaker 2: You know, you have a story if I remember about
being a kid, like as a child, like you'd never
felt sexy.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, yeah, no, I was not popular in
school at all, and I was so I humble brag here.
I skipped first grade right right, And I was already
young for my grade because my birthday September. You know this,
we have the same birthday for those of you who
don't know. Yes, yes, so I was young already, right,
and so like I was really young. Now I'm like
almost like a year and a half younger than which
is people big, big difference, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I always felt, you know, out of place at school.
I always felt, you know, I was emotionally less mature
than other kids, and so that was that was kind
of hard. I also just have like an over were
all sort of hard time like connecting I think with
people in general anyways. But yeah, no, I you know,
I didn't know how to dress. I had like an
overbite and buck teeth. I did not know what to
do with my hair. My hair was my hair is
hard to deal with. I don't always have Ricardo, But yeah,
so I always looked like you know, I didn't. I
looked nerdy and like stupid, and boys did not like
me and I definitely did not feel sexy.
Speaker 2: And did you would you have crushes on kids when
you're like boys when you were Yeah, yeah, crush hard,
but then they never were interested.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, there was tons of unrequited crushes.
Like I think I've told this story of the Valentine's
Story with my dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great story that you should definitely tell
it for people.
Speaker 3: That's gonna make me cry.
Speaker 2: Oh, I have tissues over here.
Speaker 3: Ricardo said, it's waterproof messcare.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're about to find out.
Speaker 3: We'll see.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there was this boy named Francisco in school
that I had a big crush on, and it was
Valentine's Day and we all made our own like personal
Valentine's Day mailboxes, like at a cardboard that we would
take to the edge of our desks. It's so funny
because I think about the way that like teachers treated
kids back then and the way we do it now,
Like how we know so much more about mental health
and how to like not make kids feel ostracized and
less than and all that kind of stuff. But you know,
back at mob we didn't know that stuff. So anyways,
we made Valentine's and then it was like, okay, go
and drop the Valentine's off in the mailbox of whoever
you want to give the Valentines too. And I like
didn't get any Valentines. I got like one from the teacher,
and like one from like that kid in class that
just makes the Valentine's for everybody. And I remember him
walking with a Valentine's card towards my desk and by
my desk, and it was one of those moments in
the movies where it's like slow motion. He likes me,
like he's gonna put the Valentin's card in my box,
and he walked past it and put in somebody else's
box and that was like crushing for me.
Speaker 2: Baking came home and I.
Speaker 3: Cried and I told my dad and I started getting
secret Admira letters after that, and you know, I didn't
know who it was from, and it was they were
just really sweet, like I think you're really beautiful, sorry,
and I like watch you. I think you're really special.
And it was always like who the fuck is writing
me these letters? I mean, but you know, it was
like it meant so much to me. I was like,
there's someone out there the things I'm like special and beautiful.
I'm like I have to send you. Yeah, like there's
some boy out there, you know, And I was like
who is it? But like, oh my god, it was
like this big mystery. And then I found out I
was right.
Speaker 2: That Yeah, yeah, he really wanted you to feel special
and know that you were beautiful. Yeah he was a
special guy. Yeah, you have nothing but great things to
say about him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I miss him a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's funny, like when I think about my childhood, I
have so many memories with my dad. Now with my
mom necessarily, I mean I love my mom, but like
all of like my my like special childhood memory moments
are with my father.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where you felt special. I just have these like
beautiful memories. Yeah. I want to talk about dicks or something. Yeah,
let's go to dicks. That's a great pivot down dicks.
Why we say that? Whenever I get said dicks, Well,
I think about sometimes how people see themselves as sexual
beings are not, and it can be so directly related
to like, as we're starting to find crushes, like what
do we think our peers think of us? And we
actually could pivot into dicks from this conversation I'm thinking
not in my head, but I imagine like and for
so many people out there, because very few people were
like the popular kids that were getting attention, like most
people were not. Yeah, and then how do we feel
going forward, Like I don't get to have these things,
Like you're almost telling yourself like I don't get to
be that sexy, beautiful, wanted woman, desired women on camera
because I'm not pretty enough, you know, which, Yeah, it's
a shame that we internalize all of these things. And again,
I think that's what porn helps us do, is to
like step out and see other ways that people are behaving,
the ways people are doing things. I'm like, you can
do it too, you know.
Speaker 3: And the great thing about the porn industry is that,
I mean especially now, but like it's always been like
so inclusive. Yeah, and maybe not even necessarily within like
the mainstream industry, like within the group of people that
maybe like walk the red carpet at the Avian Awards
or whatnot. But especially when the Internet came along and
it opened up, you know, the ability for fans to
look for the thing that they actually want to actually want,
as opposed to like whatever they got in a magazine.
You saw that, Like, people love all different kinds of things,
bodies of all different shapes and sizes, and it didn't
always have to be like this stick thin, like blonde
girl with like big tids, right, you know. And so
I've always felt that, and I always feel like the
porn industry has been like one step ahead of like
mainstream in terms of like being inclusive, you know. Is
we're kind of going down that path of trying to
make everybody feel like they're all worthy human.
Speaker 2: Being, right, that there's a place for them, there's a
place for their pleasure that they're Yeah, absolutely, well, I
do think about though. We're going to talk about dicks
for a second, because I think this is important to
talk about. It's like the dicks that we see on porn.
And I can't tell you. I mean, I specialize in
male performance struggles, and so inevitably I end up in
a conversation with pretty much every man about like what
they see on porn and how they feel about themselves,
like that they're not they're not big enough, They're not
gonna be able to do it for their partner. So
if you were to give advice, because I think, truly
you may be one of the best people to be
giving advice to people about sex, what would you say
to someone if they came to you and said, like,
I'm worried I'm not big enough or i feel like i'm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's such a huge, you know, thing
by or maybe not so huge, sorry, it's a siny thing.
It's just like, you know, it's a thing by by
which a lot of men measure their like masculinity and
their worth right is their their penis size. And obviously,
like the dicks that you see in porn are like exaggerated,
you know, porn is a fantasy. It's sometimes almost a
caricature of people. Like you know, it's like the same
reason that like the guys who play in the NBA
are tall, you know what I mean, and like they
just like it makes them easier for them to shoot
the hoop right, shoot the ball into the hoop. Well,
and porn guys a big dicks because it's easier to
shoot it, Like they think that's.
Speaker 2: So important for people to understand.
Speaker 3: It's very hot. Yeah, I mean it's very so. I
mean if you're shooting like two bodies together, right and
you need so what porn stars have to do is
they you do something called opening up to camera, and
that's so that you can see the penetration because that's
what people want to see. So you know, we normally
have sex like this right facing like no or like
hip to hip corn stars have to like, oh, like
guys have to kind of have sex sideways, oh, interest,
so that like you can see the penetration.
Speaker 2: Wow, And you can't even really see that from I mean,
I'm going to go look next time I'm watching.
Speaker 3: Look, you'll if you start to look, you'll see it. Okay,
they open up the camera and they go kind of
sideways and they like pull the girl's butt to the
side and they kind of like fight sideways, right, so
the camera can see so we can see exactly. Now,
if you have a shorter penis, your dick is going
to keep popping out out of the whole while you're
trying to do that. So it literally needs to be
longer so it can go just to go back and forth,
you know, withdraw and insert itself again without popping out,
and that you can kind of bend your tick enough
so that people can see the penetration.
Speaker 2: It's not actually that it's necessarily more pleasurable or like
more preferred.
Speaker 3: It's just that it's easier to get. It's literally like
it is very hard to shoot a guy with a
smaller penis in porn and get the penetration, especially if
the girl like has a big ass I forget and
you're never getting that forget it. You're never ever going
to get that shot. Like it's not happening. So that's
that's a huge reason why. And then of course, like again,
like porn is a fantasy, we're selling an over inflated
you know, moment of sex to people, and you know,
just like I get enhancements to their bodies because this
is a product that they're selling. It's the same with
the men. So most men do not look like that.
Most men do not have dicks that big. I've had
sex with a lot of men, and like maybe three
of them, not even like two of them had that large,
you know, So and that didn't mean that like I
only had two good experiences. I mean, that's ridiculous. I
asked this question actually of women porn stars who come
on my show all the time, because obviously, like they
have sex with these large penis rights constantly, and you know,
almost all of them say that they prefer a more
average size because the amazing there it is. However, porn
star's average size is not necessarily the average, Like the
average male penis size is what five and a half inches?
Speaker 2: Is that, right, I don't actually even know.
Speaker 3: I think I think it is. I think it is,
and I think most porn stars think seven.
Speaker 2: It is average. So interesting, But I think people who
gravitate to porn like a lot of sex and probably
more categorized into that like size queen category where they
want to be filled up. They really enjoy that. We're
not every woman is going to like intimacy penetration to
have that really big filled up feeling. Some are, absolutely,
but there's a lot of people who are not, Like
they don't actually.
Speaker 3: Care and like having sex with a really large penis
on a consistent basis. You know, we talk about like
vacation dick and boys, right, dick like that painful?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, And there's like we pull out the Enjoy
eleven and we use it, but then we have like
sex after, which is like, you know, because for people
don't know what the enjoy leven it is is like
this gin you know, the enjoy life. Yes, yeah, it
was ginormous. Still though it's like so huge, right, but
it's like if you use that a little bit oftentimes
it's like, well, at least for me, I'm like okay,
like a couple of minutes and I'm good, like go
back to you know, regular.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think also too, so many men think
that sex is about penetration, and it's not just about penetration.
Speaker 2: Tell us, and I tell us more, I tell us everything.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean women in general, I find, you know,
for play is really important to us, right because there's
a lot of there's a lot of like mental excitement
that goes into having sex. I think, honestly, that's why
I enjoyed being in that BDSM relationship with that guy
for a period of time, because there was a lot
of like play, you know, like mental play, and like
I remember, you know, one of the things that like
I found so hot was he used to like tie
my hands up to this strap that came down from
the ceiling and he just leave me standing there naked,
tiede and he just sit there and soak a cigarette
and like look at me, you know what I mean,
and just like it. And it felt very like like
this thing on display and he's just time and you know,
the anticipation is.
Speaker 2: Building, objectifying you in a connected objectified yes, like he
was probably looking at your eyes and looking at your
body and he was checking in with you, right, all, yes,
it's consensual.
Speaker 3: Yes, right. He was actually the first person that I
ever met that presented a boundary list, a boundary checklist.
I had never seen one before. This is before we
started doing it. And in like the Vanila porn, it's
always existed. In like kinkporn, like kink dot com has
been doing this forever, so any like extreme fetish porn,
if they were above board, they had these checklists because
when you're bound and gagged and you are not happy,
you need to like be able to express that, right,
So like they have to do a lot of they
have to be really careful. But in you know, in
regular porn, we just never really thought about that until
like the Me Too movement, and then we were like oh,
maybe probably it might be a good idea. But yeah,
he was the first person that ever present. He remember
he gave me like a boundary checklist and you actually
filled it out, Like no, because I thought it was
so weird. You were like, why are you giving this
to me? I was so I was first of all
taken by surprise, but I also feel like I was
uncomfortable because he was asking for a level of communication
that I had never been asked before, and I think
it made me think about things that I had never
thought about before. And I think back then like I
don't know, I wasn't like ready to communicate on that level.
Speaker 2: Did you know what most of the stuff was because
you had already been in like the adult industry area.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there was probably some stuff in there
that I that I didn't know. I can't remember off
the top of my head, but there probably was, because
there's some pretty specific fetish to right right right unless
you work in that great industry.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I remember when I went to see a pro dom
and I got a list like that, and I was like,
I don't I had to. I was like researching half
of the terms. Yeah, I've been working in the you know,
a sex therapist, for I think at that point it
was like twelve years.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, but I don't even know what these
these things are. Yeah, then yeah, I was just so
I think like that whole mental you know, that like
those mental games that we used.
Speaker 2: To play, and that's you know, so that's what you're
also considering for play, which I think is really important
for people to know. It's not just outer course, not
just fingering and kissing and boob sucking, like it's it's
more than that.
Speaker 3: So could you feeling wanted, feeling like very keenly desired,
the anticipation of the event, Like if you see any
of these movies that are mostly focused on like a female,
it's pleasure like point of view. There's almost always this
build up from the man until the event. Like they
don't generally just like whip their dick out, throw some
spit on, just stick at it and everyone's happy. You know,
there's like a whole thing that that leads up to it.
And I think that that's what women really enjoy, and
I think that men lose sight of that, probably because
there's no sex education. We don't talk about this kind
of stuff, and people just watch you know, a quick
step brother stuck in the dryer clip on porn up
and they're like, that's what sex should be, and it's like, yeah, right,
it's not. Actually like porn is generally created let's let's
be real porn for the most part, not allborn is
generally created for the male gaze, right, And most guys
are like, who has time to masturbate for like forty
five minutes? I mean, there's gooning, and that's a whole
other thing, but generally you want to like kind of
get in and out, So there's not necessarily going to
be like such a strong, like a long build up,
like a storyline like that kind of stuff. Like there's
the things that guys like, they collect the data, they
know that they reproduce that. So don't get your sex
education from porn, right, which I think is so.
Speaker 2: Important to be talking about as a woman that works
in the industry or anybody who works in the industry,
because I think that is where a lot of people
are getting all of their information from, especially at a
very very young age, and then there's nowhere for anybody
to go because there is no actual real education around
like what is pleasure it's like zero education on that,
which is just such a shame I think. And I
think what also happens for a lot of men is
like when you actually start to talk to them about
their pleasure, they don't always even really know where it
is because they've been so conditioned to coming so quickly, like, oh,
I just pull up porn, I jack off to ejaculate.
That's why I'm here. I'm here to just ejaculate. They're
not actually there to enjoy the whole experience. And so
I think a lot of times too, when women come
in and say, hey, babe, like I want to slow
this down. I want you to seduce me, I want
you to objectify me, I want you to show me.
I was saying, men don't even know where to go
with that because they themselves have never explored like if
I was to slow it down and to let sex
be more of a part of my life, what would
I want, Like if I was to backway and say like, yeah, yeah,
the orgasm is there, that's great.
Speaker 3: Sure, that's a part of it, but it's just like
the orgasm.
Speaker 2: Is the end of the song. It's the journey, not
the destination, right, And for some people that orgasm is
so so so critically important to their erotic life. And
for other people, like they don't even care. Yeah, people
are like, I don't need to come, It's no big deal, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: And sex is such a it's so interesting to see too,
you know, with the way that all the different fetishes
that people have and all the different ways that people
explore sex, and it's that's one of the most fascinating
things about my job. Yes, well, that's my question to
you is what do you think turns people on? They're everything.
There's literally like nothing out there that like I have
not like seen or heard like somebody being into amazing.
I mean, okay, let's also clarify it should be legal
and consensual and all that kind of stuff, right, But yeah,
I mean there's there's one of my favorite things used
to be is I used to go to Clips for Sale,
which is like a very back in its day, it
was like the only clips store that people use. I
could never figure it out. It was always so complicated
for me. But if you were like heavy into fetish
and yeah, I don't even what is clips first Sale?
Speaker 2: A website?
Speaker 3: Okay, is a website? Okay, But like back in like
I don't know, like twenty years ago, it was like
that's where like you could find all your fetish got stuff,
that's where you went. Yeah, and it was huge. I
think it's still like pretty big, but back in the day,
it was like that was the place, the place. So
you just go and you look at the categories there
and it's there's like there's like hair washing, there's you know,
but balloon popping, my favorite, the pie in the face.
I mean, just like anything that you can possibly think
of like was there. And it's just so interesting, like
all these different things that.
Speaker 2: Turn people on. I know, it's amazing. It's a spectrum.
It is definitely a spectrum for sure. Yeah, so that
may be potentially more difficult question for you. You have
very very little criticism of your Let's just go with
your mom right now. Everyone has wonderful things to say
about her. She did it well. She lifted women up
in a way that I think a lot of women needed, Yeah,
which was rare in that time, and she was in
an industry that was predominantly male dominated. I'm curious, like,
do you have any criticisms like of her that.
Speaker 3: You How long do we have I don't know.
Speaker 2: You tell me.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, okay, So first of all, I will
say that she is the reason that I'm in the
place that I'm in today. Like let's be real, like
I wrote in to the industry on her coattails, like
I would not be where I am today if it
wasn't for Susan Randall.
Speaker 2: Like that's no joke.
Speaker 3: So you know, she really, you know, helped. She taught
me everything that I knew. Maybe not lighting and stuff
because she doesn't know how to operate that specif, but
she knew what she wanted. Posing was a big part
of it. I learned like all of my posing, my
cropping from her. How to treat models, you know, really
important that girls always felt safe and sexy and cared for.
Like it shocked me that there were photographers out there
that would like make girls cry on a regular basis,
And that was like, okay, how could you get I
don't know, because it's just like I mean, my mom
used to always say, and she was so right. She's like,
your only your pictures are only as good as your
model feels. And that's true. Like if you make a
girl feel like shit, like you're not gonna get the
end product. That you want. So if she shows up late,
if she's a pain in the ass, he's still nice to.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 3: Don't hear her again? Would you still going to be nice? Right?
You try and get the best version of yeah, Because
if I like take her into the corner and I
yell at her, you're like, what the fuck am I
going getting nothing out of the day? I may as
well to send her home. And I've actually found that
often girls who were I was told were divas difficult
by other people, were actually fine with me because I
treated them with respect, respecting them, and I gave them
the things that they needed, and I communicated with them
and I checked in with them, which is something that
they didn't get from other people.
Speaker 2: You're just such a badass, Holly's way, just a badass.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, those are like some really important things that
she taught me. And you know, kind of coming up
in the porn industry, I came up and you know
what I call like the Sue's bubble, right like we
had a very controlled set, only worked with you know,
her crew members, and never really deviated from that when
I started branching out of my own because once like
the Internet came along and videos started to really become
streaming started to become like a big thing. My mom
just did not want to shoot video because she was
a photographer. She didn't want to go there. I saw
where the future was, she didn't want to go there.
So I started fighting with her and I went off
on my own and I started like shooting for Adam
Neve was the first company that I shot for on
my own, and then Twisty's actually, and then I started
to kind of like see how other sets worked. But
I definitely was like very protected in the beginning.
Speaker 2: So all these stories that you know, when people probably
weren't going to fuck with you because they knew your
mom right right, and your mom is this bulldog yees
come after you, Yes, suck with me.
Speaker 3: I mean there are performers to this day that like
people are afraid of who treat me very well because
of like who my mom was. Like I don't I
know that, Like I don't take that for granted, yeah,
but I will say that, like one of the things
that I struggled with when I was kind of like
coming into my own and coming up in the industry
was she started to get like kind of competitive with me.
Oh interesting, She felt strange to me, right, yeah, because
I was like, I'm your daughter, Like why are you
my success is our success?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Like how why are you like becoming like jealous of me?
And like why are you like becoming competitive with me?
And it got like it got you know, difficult, and
I would like talk to my dad about it, and
I mean and it wasn't until I think, really like
in the last ten years or something, that I started
to see like where she was, because she was like
coming to the end of her career, right, and she
had always her identity was like being Sue's randall right,
and that was like her personality and everything about her
was built around that. And I think like with the
way that like technology was advancing and the way the
adult industry was changing, and she wasn't moving along with that,
and she was starting to feel like left behind. Like
that's a really hard thing, right, And I don't think
I understood or appreciated that at the time, because I
was young and I just wanted to be successful and
I was just like I wasn't like thinking about things
from her perspective, and I was just thinking about myself
and like how could I be successful and how could
I get out from under her shadow, which i'd always
been so so yeah, I think I was really inconsiderate
of what she was going through at the time.
Speaker 2: Where you guys like actually spark like would you yeah, oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then like I really branched off and started
just doing my own thing, and then she you know,
pretty much ended up retiring and now she's like so
proud of me, you know, like everything that I do,
like she's so proud of me, and that that isn't
there anymore. But I think I really didn't appreciate how
hard it is to like once you start to lose
that part of your life and like who are you
right if your whole identity has been wrapped around like
I am this character, I am this photographer, I do
these things, and then the industry moves on without you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're like it's and it's fun to see
your daughter like thriving in it at the same time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think I just wasn't kind or considerate
of her feelings. So that's that's definitely like on me,
And it's it's actually kind of sad now because it
used to be that I was Susan Randall's daughter, and
that's all anybody knew me as right, And I wasn't
like my own person, and people were always comparing me
to her. And now like people don't even know who
she is anymore. Like a lot of the younger girls
are like, who's Susan Randall? But they know who I am?
And that's like that actually kind of like makes me sad,
you know, because she really was like somebody who came
up in a world where it was really hard for women.
Speaker 2: You know, really hard, really really hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I had to say, you know, I look
my mom, and anybody who's worked with my mom will say, like,
my mom can be a bully, like she can she
can be not nice. She always wants to be the
one in power and like, you know, the center of
attention and like that kind of thing. She like that
just at work, or she liked that at home. She's
like that just in general. And I remember complaining about that,
I think, to like Andrew Richardson of Richardson Magazine, and
he said saying to me that, like I really like
never forgotten. He goes, yeah, but you don't understand the
world and which your mother came up in Like you
have no idea what that was, like, like the misogyny
in that world, the way that like women were not
allowed into this boy's club, and your mom had to
navigate that, and she had to become like this person
like almost like this, you know, this bully person, this
this strong woman who could just like bulldoze her way
through like the Hugh Hefners and the Larry Flints and
the Bob Guccioni's of the world, you know, And she
had to create like these walls and this persona and
you know, like that's just who she is. But like
look at what she accomplished with that. And I was like, I,
you know, accomplished and changed.
Speaker 2: I mean, she changed the industry because she was there
and able to like prop respect women in the way
that they deserve to be respected where it wasn't happening before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think I and I just when he
said that, I was, you know, I didn't think about that,
Like I didn't appreciate it, Like I didn't think about
how hard it was for her back then, and how
like brave she was right, you know, to like you know,
to tell Larry Flint to like go fuck himself. Like
everyone's scared of Larry Flint. She was the only person
like who was not. So it gave me like a
new found respect for her. You know, I think it's
always the way, right when you get older, you suddenly
start to backing. You're like, that makes sense your mom
in a different light, You're like, oh, the talent was
actually hard. All of this was hard, and you did
the best that you could with what you were given, right,
and you had things a lot harder than I did. So,
like it definitely gave me like a new found respect
for her.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, I know we're both moms, which we haven't
even touched on in the whole over hour that we've
been talking about, but I think about that often. People
say that when you have children you realize like how
hard it is. And we're both You have a five
year old, I have a four and a half year old,
and we are in the muck of it. Yeah, screaming
bloody murder. The other morning, I wanted to dance to
a song and my son was just screaming buddy murder
at me, and I was like, oh God, how do
any parents, not only my mother, but like all of
us make it through? You know, it suddenly opens the
world up to this space.
Speaker 3: Well, and also like they didn't have the knowledge and
the tools and the education that we have now, right.
You know, when I was pregnant, I watched like I
took the Big Little Feelings Workshop, you know what I mean,
Like I read no bad kids, Like I.
Speaker 2: All this information that I had to like help me
navigate through developmental leaps and the changes in what they're
going through.
Speaker 3: And you bad kids, You then have an app that
can literally tell you your kid is going to be
a shithead this week because they're entering into like this phase. Yeah,
I mean it's crazy, you know. So, like what we
have now to work with is just like so different
than what our parents had.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, they were just like archaically trying to make
it through and survive. And this society was changing at
the same too, because we were becoming so much more
insular into our homes, not having so much like community
around us. But they, you know, didn't have any of
the tools like we have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not to mention the fact that my parents
like moved across the world right here, right, so they
left their family behind and came over there to start
all over again.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so like they didn't have that support, right, Yeah, yeah,
so incredible. Well I'm curious, Holly, what brings you joy today?
I think you know what I'm going to say. Let's see.
Speaker 3: I mean my daughter, come on, yeah, she is rad
It was her. We just had celebrated her fifth birthday
Chuck E cheese yesterday. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know,
she's just like.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I just I just watch her sometimes
and I'm like, God, she's just like me. You made her.
I know that too.
Speaker 3: Like I think about, like, God, I made you and
you like this perfect little, beautiful child, Like how did
I do that?
Speaker 2: And I just, you know, I see so much of
myself and her. She's so much like me.
Speaker 3: And I see her, you know, dancing and like dressing
up and stuff, and I just like I see myself
and her like at that age. And it makes you,
you know, look back at makes you kind of re
experience like that your childhood again, and you know, gives
you hope for humanity, also fills you with a tremendous
amount of fear because like where the world is going.
Like I remember a friend of mine told me when
I was pregnant. He said, it's going to be the happiest,
the most wonderful experience and also the most terrible, terrifying
experience of all time. You're going to experience the most
intense moments of joy and the most paralyzing moments of fear.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, for the rest of
your life. By the way, it doesn't end when they
turn eighteen.
Speaker 2: Did you know you always wanted to be a mother?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no I did. I you know, like my
family and I are really close. I'm really close to
my siblings. That was never like a question in my mind.
And actually so I was married before, and I was
very unhappy in the marriage, and I stayed in the
marriage for a while because I thought. That makes me
laugh now, because I was like thirty two and I
was like, I'm too old to thought over right, no
one's gonna love me at thirty two. A lot of
women carry that though, I can't tell you. I mean,
come into my office and they're like they feel desperate. Yeah,
I'm thirty, I haven't found a partner. I really want
a child. What do I do?
Speaker 2: Thirty?
Speaker 3: Like Jesus, But you know, at the time, like feels
you feel so old, right, and so I stayed because
you know, I thought that I would never find anybody else,
and I really wanted kids, and I knew that he
would be even though like I wasn't and he wasn't
like a bad husband by the way, Like he wasn't
a bad guy at all. I just didn't love him, yeah,
and I couldn't.
Speaker 2: I tried to make myself love him, and I couldn't
do it.
Speaker 3: And so I just thought like, Okay, well he's gonna
be a good dad, so like we can just have
kids and it's okay, I don't have to love him.
I've never really loved anybody before anyhow, so like, what
is that it spoiled you? It was too perfect. People
like always say like you know, you'll know love when
you see it, and that had never happened to me.
So I was like, maybe it's just like not meant
for me, and we can just have this transactional relationship
where like he can be a good father and I
can work and I'll make all the money and like
that'll be fine. And then you know, obviously we split up.
And it was the moment that I finally came to
terms with like, actually, maybe I could be happy and okay,
spending the rest of my life not ever becoming a
mother and being childless, and I could live a happy
and fulfilling life like that. And when I had that
moment of clarity, that's when I was like, well, then
what the fuck am I doing here? And that's when
I was able to finally walk away, leave the relationship.
And then I met my husband, and then it was like,
you know, the first man like i'd ever like truly
fallen in love with. And we've been together for almost
ten years and I still feel like the same way,
which is crazy to me. I get bored of guys
in like a year, but that hasn't happened with him.
And then I started to feel like, okay, you know,
maybe I maybe I want a kid again.
Speaker 2: Maybe it could happen. But at that point I was
in the late thirties. Yeah, and you were like, okay, no,
I'm not going to have a kid. I'm okay with that.
But then it came back once you met the person.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the thing is is that and he's actually
a little bit younger than me. He's like two and
a half years younger than me, and he definitely wanted kids,
but He knew that I was older and that there
was a possibility that I wouldn't be able to have kids,
and so when I would ask him about whether or
not he wanted children, he would never actually really give
me a straight answer, and he would say like, well,
I love our life together as it is, babe, and like,
sure it would be great, but if we don't, like
we'll have a wonderful life together. I love you, and
it was He's like, I'm staying for you, and if
we happen to have a kid, great, right, And like,
you know, that's another moment when I realized which a
great man he was, because like, yes, he wanted kids,
but he didn't want to put pressure on me to
feel like I had to have a child to make
him love me, you know, like he he did not ever.
I knew that he did, but he never admitted to
it because he never wanted to will admit to it, Yes,
will now we have a kid? He was like yeah, no, yeah,
I couldn't have seen our life without it, like this
is our family. But he didn't he knew like how
devastated I would feel. And as a woman, like you
feel like you know, society makes you feel especially if
you want kids. If you want kids and you can't
have them, and it makes you feel like you know
a certain way about yourself if you can't have children.
And I think he didn't want to put that on me,
so he never, you know, kind of pushed that. So
then when I got pregnant at forty, that was like
a really insane magical moment. Yeah, yeah, it was all
meant to be. Yeah, if you.
Speaker 2: Could have been anything else other than what you are,
what would you have done? Like would you be stay
at home mom?
Speaker 3: Would you know? Okay, so God's out greenso okay, okay,
so no there, but like what would you what would
you have done? I mean the other thing I was
studying to be was a teacher. Okay, I thought, I,
you know, I'll be an English teacher. That was my
major college and I like teaching and I love literature,
and so yeah, I was like college professor. That's probably,
honestly what I would be doing. Could you see yourself
doing that? Or yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, for all the people who have those
naughty teacher fantasies, yes I.
Speaker 1: Do have it.
Speaker 3: I have a few sets like that because people do
really like that. Yeah, they do for sure. People really
like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the power. I mean, we all spend so much
time in school. I mean, at some point I think
we all have somewhere inside of us a teacher that
we had a crush on.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So my final question for you is what is your
wish for the adult industry and for all the people
who work in it.
Speaker 3: Honestly, my wish is that being in the adult industry
and choosing this life doesn't affect you in a negative
way for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: That's what I wish. The stigma.
Speaker 3: I wish the stigma would go away, because you know,
some people come into the adult industry thinking that's what
they want and it's not what they want. Yeah, it's
not the life for them, which is fine, and then
they try to move on, they try to do something
else with their life and they're blocked from it.
Speaker 2: Right, maybe like a lawyer or a person trying to
be a lawyer. They go to law school and they're like, Aah,
turns out I don't want to be a lawyer. Yeah, exactly,
you can easily.
Speaker 3: No one's ever going to be like you can have
this job because you went to law school, right, you know,
And I just you know, that just makes me sad.
And also like, you know, the stigma that I see
with you know, people want to start families. One of
the saddest things I won't say her name, but very
very famous porn star who has a kid, was telling
me about how she doesn't go to any of her
like school activities like recitals and stuff like that because
she doesn't want people to see her and associate her
with her child, because she doesn't want to put that
stigma onto her child and she wants her child to
have a normal life and not be associated with her.
And that broke my whole heart because like you can't
go and like watch your parent do a parent things,
do a parent thing, be in like do a ballet recital,
like anything like that.
Speaker 2: Like and I was just like, yeah, it's heartbreaking. That
kills me.
Speaker 3: And you know even for me now, like my daughter's
in a public school now and you know, they're constantly
like going for like parent volunteers and I'm like, have
you done it yet, No, because I'm afraid. I'm afraid
that if I do it. Like first of all, they
do background checks now, which I don't think is a
bad thing. Yeah, right, but they do a background check
on me, They're gonna know what I do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And I just feel like, when you playdates,
do you disclose? Like no, okay, so do you like
if you're out of play dates? I don't know if
they know, you don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll find out. I feel like from the might,
but no one's ever brought it up to me. Yeah,
so what do you guys talk about kids?
Speaker 2: Kids?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I did it? Silly? I should I go to those
play dates? You just talk about kids.
Speaker 3: We just talk about it. We don't talk about anything else.
Speaker 2: But no one's like, what do you do for work, colleague?
Speaker 3: I say, like marketing. Marketing is okay, okay, you just
try to make it like really boring. Yeah, but yeah,
I yeah, I'm afraid to like like there was a
role for like they wanted a photographer, a class photographer. Yeah,
and you know, at first my husband was like, oh,
you should do that. I'm like, I can't, like think
about it.
Speaker 2: It sucks.
Speaker 3: Right, I'm a great photographer. I'm great with kids. Like,
I'm not weird, I'm not creepy, like I'm a good mother,
Like I'm a regular person. But if I go and
I like take you know what I mean, and like
a mom finds out, I don't even want to invite
that conversation, you know, so I just stay away.
Speaker 2: It's really tough. I mean, you know, but we'll have
to come back here in like five years when our
kiddos are a little bit older. Yeah, and maybe at
that point you've had some like on camera experiences. I
don't know. We'll see where your where your world goes,
and we'll revisit all of these topics. Yeah, it'd be
really fun enough. So you can only be interviewed by
someone named Keiley going correctly, That's correct. There's not that
many of us out there, really a very small population.
So well, Holly, this has been amazing. I know everyone
love love love learning about you. Thank you for being
so raw and vulnerable. And I didn't say this before
to Holly, but this is the first time I've ever
hosted a podcast, so.
Speaker 3: Yay to me, I was like, oh shit, but.
Speaker 2: This was really wonderful and I know everyone's gonna love
learning about it, and personally for me, I just want
to say too, Like a lot of the questions I
asked were because I sit with so many people who
have these questions. I have these questions myself as well,
and about society and the porn industry. So thank you
for answering them. I think it's tremendously helpful. I love
everything that you do. Keep doing it. It's wonderful. So
thank you for being you. Thank you well. Can you
tell everybody where they can find me online? Yes? Yes,
so I think I introduced myself a little bit before,
but I am a sex and relationship coach. I specialize
in male performance struggles, which is how Holly and I met.
Actually when I was pregnant. I wasn't even out of
being pregnant twenty twenty one. I was on the podcast.
You can go back and listen to that. But the
best place to fight me is my website, which is
Keeleankin dot com k E E L E y R
A N k I N and that has everything you
need to find me. And then also I'm on Instagram
which is Keiley Rankin Intimacy Coach, and.
Speaker 3: You guys can find me on Instagram on Twitter at
Holly Randall. Go to hollylinks dot com for access to
all of my platforms, and join my Patreon if you
want to support this podcast, and in fact, we're going
to do some Patreon only questions. I think we are
in a separate segment which you would be able to
watch if you were a Patreon member, But if you're not,
then bummer for you. Go to patreon dot com slash
Holly Randall and filter it if you want to change that,
which you should. And uh yeah, thank you so much
for interviewing me, Thank you guys for listening, Thank you
guys
Speaker 2: For your support, and we'll see you on the next one.