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Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to

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this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon

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to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you

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want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream,

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my daily show prep with all of the links, become

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a patron, go to thepeakclendarshow dot com. Make sure you

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hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right

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to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so

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much for your support. I want to welcome to the show.

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Will Chamberlain. Will is the senior counsel at the Article

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three Project, also with the Internet Accountability Project. Will, how

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are you, sir?

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Speaker 2: Doing great? Pe good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Good, Thanks for making time for us. I appreciate it.

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First off, what is the Article three Project? Real quick?

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Speaker 2: We're a legal and political additty organization. We work the

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on behalf of the Trump administration or not not for them,

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but we worked to push you know, we were working

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to get Trump cabinet officials confirmed. We fight again. We

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fought against all the warfare against President Trump. We worked

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to get Judah nominees confirmed. And we also file things

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like judicial ethics complaints in various places when judges violate

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their responsibilities.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to have you on today to talk

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about Kilmer, Armatto, Abrago Garcia the quote Maryland father as

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he is referred to in the Atlantic piece about him,

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because he got deported back to El Salvador and this

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was the guy that was or wasn't I don't know

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in MS thirteen. So first let's kind of walk through,

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like who was this or who is this guy?

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, it's unclear whether he was m S thirteen.

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I think more likely than not, but there wasn't, you know,

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a full criminal trial on that question. I mean, the

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real simple thing that we know is he was an

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illegal alien who crossed into the United States in twenty twelve.

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He was finally detained by Ice in twenty nineteen, he

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was going to be removed, and then he made this

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claim for asylum. And this claim for asylum he claimed

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that somehow, like you know, he was pushed out of

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the country or forced to leave because the threats to

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his mother's papoosa business in El Salvador. And eight years

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later those threats were still so severe that he couldn't

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return and he needed to make a claim like this

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because otherwise he was going to be forced to leave

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the country because he's an illegal alien who never fixed

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his legal status. But he obviously wanted to stay because

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he had like a you know, a fiance and a

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kid on the way. But even so, I mean, it's just,

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you know, one of the funny thing is, you know,

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the story here is like this guy didn't get enough

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to process. It's like, if you actually understand what this

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guy's story is, it's clear that he got far too

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much to process that he should have. You know, he's

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been able to stay in the country illegally for well

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over a decade and he should go home, and now

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he is home.

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Speaker 1: So the yeah, the argument that his lawyer made was

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that he cannot go back to El Salvador because of

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an organization called the Eighteenth Street Gang, which I'm pretty

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say,

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I bet I know where to find these guys. But

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the Eighteenth Street Gang was targeting him and threatening him

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with death because of his family's business, this poopoosa business,

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which I was not aware of. How dangerous papoosa making.

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If that's what, I don't even know, what do you

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even know what a papoosa is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a Salvador and it's like a it's

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like a sandwich. Not even no, it's like a tortilla.

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Stuff tortilla with cheese.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, well now all right, now I'm on board.

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Speaker 2: No, so okay, all right.

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Speaker 1: So so the family business though this was eight years

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ago that right, This was that this gang was targeting

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his family. Is that a reason enough why he would

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be tortured or targeted by going home now?

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Speaker 2: No? And in particular it's because in the interim, I mean,

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Nayabukele has become the president of El Salvador and has

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crushed the gangs. I mean, the entire theory that this

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guy's a forward. It was kind of ridiculous at the time,

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but even so, the theory was he's going to get

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persecuted and killed by this gang. All the gang members

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are in jail now, so he can go home, right.

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El Salvador is now a safe country to return to.

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Speaker 1: So could the administration terminate the because he asked for asylum? Right,

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that's the deal he had. He went in there and

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he asked for asylum. I guess we did he get

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it from immigrations.

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Speaker 2: He didn't Okay, he didn't because the rule is, which

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is a very sensible rule, if you don't apply for

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asylum within one year of crossing the border, you are

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barred from claiming asylum. What he got was this thing

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called a withholding of removal, and all that means is

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you are still a removable illegal alien. You just can't

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be removed to a specific country. You have to be

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removed somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the administration now admits that they messed

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up by sending him back to the country that was

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identified as the one that they shouldn't send him back to.

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Speaker 2: Correct But I think people need to understand the term

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harmless error, right because in reality, the circumstances that were

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the cause of this inability to remove him are gone,

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meaning this gang is no longer a threat to the guy.

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If the administration had just gone through the normal channels,

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went to the court and said, hey, to withdraw this

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guy's withholding our removal because El Salvador is safe, they

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would have been able to remove him anyway. So I mean, like,

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there's no injustice here, is what I'm saying. I mean,

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there's a procedural due process flaw, but the outcome here.

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If the administration had followed due process would have been

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exactly the same. This guy would have gone home.

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Speaker 1: Let me go back to the MS thirteen connection and

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you rode in a Twitter thread. I still call them

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that the finding that he was a member of MS

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thirteen only came up because he asked for bond, So

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why would it only come up? And then what happened?

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But why would it only come up when he asks

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for bond? And then what happened with the disposition of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, so he got detained not because he was a

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member of MS thirteen, but because he was an illegal

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alien in the country illegally. So I mean that's sufficient

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to justify a removal, you don't. I mean we're sort

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of in this weird space of the Democrats keep asking well,

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what crime did they commit. It's like, well, they're in

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the country illegally. They don't have a right to be here.

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So that was the circumstance he was in. Now, this

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guy was going to be detained until pending his removal,

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and he wanted to fight that, and so he asked

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for a bond. The bonds are usually not given in

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these cases, but you can ask for it, and so

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then the question is, okay, well, if we're going to

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give you bond, are you a danger to the community.

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And then that's where the question of this guy's MS

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thirteen membership came up, and the judge found that there

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was evidence that he was a member of m S

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thirteen and therefore that he could not establish that he

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was not a threat to the community, and so bond

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was denied.

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Speaker 1: And then there was also the question of a flight risk, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, the fact the idea that you know, because

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this guy was likely to be removed and had failed

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to appear in regard to some of his traffic violations.

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The original immigration judge all the way back in twenty

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nineteen said, yeah, we think that's another independent reason why

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we're going to deny you bond.

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Speaker 1: So then that's when I guess a little bit later

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he shifts the arguments or his tactic in trying to

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stay right. That's when he then tries the asylum claim.

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Speaker 2: Exactly right, he applied for this asylum and withholding a

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lost an asylum managed, but he did get his withholding

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of removal. Managed to persuade the judge that his sob

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story about his mom's papoosa business was true, and so

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that meant that he couldn't be removed to El Salvador.

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But I mean, apparently there was just not no ability

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to get him removed somewhere else. And then moreover it

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the Biden administration didn't bother sort of challenging that withholding

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you know, once even once it was clear that El

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Salvador was now a safe country.

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Speaker 1: Also, the Papoosa business, it's not even in business anymore, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It wasn't even in business back in

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twenty nineteen when he was making this claim about fearing persecution.

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Speaker 1: Well, all right, but aside from that, So then there

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is there's an argument. I re read a piece over

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at the New Republic and they say that he did

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have the legal right to be here and he's not

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a convicted MS thirteen gang member. What do you say to.

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Speaker 2: That, Well, the first part is false. He did not

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have the legal right to be here. He could have

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been removed instantly to any other country in the world.

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So that's just out out falls. The second claim is

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that he's not a convicted gang member. Yes, he was

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never a prosecuted There was no need to prosecute the guy.

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He was a detained illegal alien. Right. We weren't thinking

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about trying to put him in an American prison for

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crimes he committed here. We were going to send him

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back to El Salvador because that's where he's a citizen

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of and he never had got a legal right to

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be in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Will Chamberlain, he's the senior counselor at the Article

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three project. You can follow him on Twitter, Will Chamberlain

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and Will I appreciate the time, sir, thanks so much.

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Speaker 2: All right, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I man, all right, if you're listening to this show,

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you know I try to keep up with all sorts

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of current events, and I know you do too, And

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you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources.

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Why Well, because it's how you detect media bias, which

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is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's

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an app and it's a website, and it combines news

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from around the world in one place so you can

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compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out

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at check dot ground dot news slash Pete. I put

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the link in the podcast description too. I started using

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ground News a few months ago, and more recently chose

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to work with them as an affiliate because it lets

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me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom.

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The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored

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by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check

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dot Ground dot News slash pete. Subscribe through that link

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and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use

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the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature.

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Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it

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also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape

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more transparent. David Strom, writing at hotair dot com about

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the Maryland father who may or may not have been

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an MS thirteen gang member, says the Trump administration has

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conceded that an administrative error resulted in a man being

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deported to El Salvador when he should not have been.

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Not that he should not have been deported, mind you,

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Just as we heard from Will Chamberlain. There not the

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basketball player. This guy's a lawyer. But as Will said,

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it's not that he shouldn't have been deported, he should

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have been. He was in the country illegally. He has

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been in the country illegally for more than a decade.

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He had plenty of opportunity to try to get himself

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right with the immigration rules and such. But he did not,

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and on the occasion when he was brought before an

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immigration judge, it did not go well for him. So

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it's not that he should not have been deported. The

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question is to which country. And the only thing that

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the man had won Abrego Garcia or Garcia. The only

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thing that Garcia had won was this limited holding that

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said you can't send him back to El Salvador. It

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was a withholding. He was granted a withholding of removal

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to El Salvador. That's it. And so the administration sending

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him back to his home country of El Salvador, that

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was the incorrect thing to have done. Now, I think

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at this point everybody knows my opinion of gov CO.

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I don't trust the government to do really much of

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anything well, okay, and if it does perform adequately, that

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is usually sufficient for me to say, Okay, I'm not

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going to die on that hill. I'm not gonna yeah,

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I'm not going to make a big deal about it

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because you performed bare minimum adequate, you know. But even

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I understand, or maybe because of that, I understand that

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GOVC is not going to get everything right. Nobody does,

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no organization does. You can't. It is an impossibility. That's

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why the constitution allows for amendments, right, because the founders

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recognize they're not going to get everything right. And if

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the document is to survive for the long term, then

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you have to have the ability to correct mistakes that

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may be made unwittingly or wittingly. So and so the

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government is going to make mistakes. They imprison people false

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you know, with false charges or incorrect charges. They got

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the wrong guy. We have likely executed people in America.

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We have probably, I mean, the chances are like virtually

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one hundred percent that governments around this country have executed

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innocent people. Okay, that most assuredly has happened. Which is also,

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by the way, why I am opposed to the death penalty,

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because that, like you, there's no coming back from that.

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You've deprived somebody of their life, You've murdered them, and

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they didn't do the thing that you convicted them on. Right,

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But convictions are made in error. Right, People make mistakes,

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Government agencies make mistakes. That is not a reason to

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say that all of this needs to be unwound, though,

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or that we can't deport anybody and that somehow or another,

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this guy needs to be brought back to America. That's

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what the left is arguing for, that he needs to

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be returned to America. But he's not a legal resident here.

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He wasn't here legally. Now, if you want to argue,

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like a logically consistent standard would be that, okay, we

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sent him to the wrong place. It's his home country,

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so maybe we pay for a flight to take him

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from his home country to some other country that'll take him.

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Like that would be a logically consistent argument to make.

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But that's not the argument they're making. They're saying, bring

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him back here. But he was here illegally. Such a

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mistake should not be downplayed, says David Strom. The system

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broke down and something that it's something that should not

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have happened. But the claim that he was some poor

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innocent father who was hurting nobody and was casually ripped

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off the streets and sent to a torture camp for

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no reason is complete and utter. Bs. The Atlantic wrote

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that in Monday's court filing or the original piece I

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should say, came from the Atlantic, And what Strom says

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is that the court filing that was yesterday or sorry,

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day before yesterday. Attorneys for the government admitted that the

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Salvadoran man Garcia had been deported accidentally. Quote. Although Ice

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was aware of his protection from removal to L Salvador,

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Garcia was removed to L. Salvador because of an administrative error.

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According to the government. In the court filing, he had

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received protected legal state from an immigration judge. He is

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asking the court to order the Trump administration to ask

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for his return and to withhold payment to the Salvadoran

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government for the use of all of the jail space.

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Like we're apparently paying Al Salvador six million dollars a

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year to jail all of these deportees, and Al Salvador

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asked they made the offer, like, yeah, we'll take them

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because El Salvador has been cracking down on their violent

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gangs and criminal cartels down there, So we're paying them

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for the jail space. And so what the lawyers for

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this guy are saying, you need to withhold payment for

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all of the deportees down there, withhold the payment to

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L Salvador for housing all of these prisoners until we

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get this one guy back, who, by the way, is

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an El Salvadoran national he was still here quote legally

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because he made the claim that if he was deported

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back to l Salvador, he might face torture. After all,

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gang members do actually torture other gang members, so he

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has a legitimate fear he would have done the same

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to his rival gang members. So his fear is probably

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pretty rational. Again, if he was actually MS thirteen, which

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was never proven in court, but the judge said, yeah,

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there's enough evidence to conclude that he may have been.

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Here's a great idea. How about making an escape to

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The man is an illegal migrant from El Salvador. In

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twenty nineteen, ice presented sufficient evidence that he was a

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member of the MS thirteen gang for an immigration judge

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to deny him bond and order him removed twenty nineteen,

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six years ago. Garcia was ordered to be removed six

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years ago, after he had been in the country for

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almost as long. He then filed an asylum claim and

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obtained a withholding of removal order under the Convention against Torture. Essentially,

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he argued that despite his being here illegally and likely

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being a gang member based on the previous finding that

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he could be tortured if he was sent back to

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El Salvador, such an order could still allow the government

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to deport him, but not to his home country, at

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least not without first contesting the order, and he has

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been using that order since twenty nineteen to avoid deportation.

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It does not change that the Trump administration, emphasizing government

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and competence, screwed up by deporting him to the country

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that he wasn't supposed to be deported back to based

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on that twenty nineteen order. This highlights the need for

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checks in the program, says David stromat hotair dot com.

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So again, he was eligible for deportation. The issue in

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question is what country he could be deported too. That's

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the question. The helly and says, uh, but pete, no,

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hang on second, I just lost it here it is

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but pete, see, their legal right to be here is

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them being alive. Don't you understand that that's that's the standard.

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Speaker 2: To do.

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Speaker 1: This is from Paul. His name's all capitalized, So I

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feel like he's yelling, do you not vet your guest speakers? Okay,

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I don't have guest speakers on the program. I have guests,

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and yes I do. I find out who they are.

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I've known and followed Will Chamberlain actually for a long

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time years and the Article three project. I'm aware of

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what they do. Sometimes I ask those questions about like

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what is the Article three project about? To let you

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know what the Article three project is about, and you

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can arrive at different conclusions Paul about what Will outlined

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I gave you, and you can go to my prep

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sheet and you can see the link to his analysis

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of the case. He put it all out there on Twitter.

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He's got the screen grabs of the court orders and

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the documents from the Immigration court to explain all of

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the stuff that he outlines in his analysis. So back

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to Paul's email, do you not vet your guest speakers?

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Will Chamberlain said multiple times the salvendoran immigrant is home. Now,

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I'm all for deportation, but he isn't home. He is

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in Seacot prison, which if you don't know what a

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papoosa is, I'm sure you don't know the type of

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prison that is, I am aware of the kind of

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prison that is. It's for terrorists, that's what it was

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in gang members, that's what they built it for. Like

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it can house forty thousand in mates. It's massive, and

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I think they're only at like fourteen thousand right now,

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but it could hold up to forty thousand. And you know,

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the anti incarceration folks around the globe are very upset

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about the conditions and the way people are imprisoned there

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and all of that. Will Chamberlain saying that he was

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sent home, meaning he was sent back to his home country. Now,

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if El Salvador would like to release the guy, because

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he's not an MS thirteen gang member, and they've got

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no records of him ever participating in any kind of

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gang activity, that kind of stuff, okay, But he was

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ordered to be deported and he was only supposed to

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not go back to El Salvador, which is why I said,

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a logically consistent response would be something like, okay, well

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send him to another country, and what that other country

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does with that person. We cannot control everybody, and they

393
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,920
do not have a right to be here. He entered

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the country illegally. He's not allowed to be here. He

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00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:07,000
was not supposed to be here. So, yeah, they messed up,

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00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:09,960
and they sent him to El Salvador. So you want

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to try to get him out of that place and

398
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send him someplace else. Okay, I'm open to trying to

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do that if you want to try to adhere to

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that immigration court's ruling on that narrow scope. But the

401
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idea that somehow or another he shouldn't have been deported

402
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at all, I don't find that argument to be persuasive

403
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,160
in the least. Paul's email continues, But ultimately that is

404
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,799
where Ice messed up, not in deporting him but sending

405
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him to the most strict prison in the world. No,

406
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,839
they messed up by sending him to that country, by

407
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sending him back to El Salvador. That's where the immigration

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00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:51,559
order said, you can't send him back to his home country.

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And so when Will Chamberlain was saying back home, he's

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talking about the home country. So I think you're hearing

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maybe something that you want to hear. But that's how

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00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:05,039
Will was saying, is that they sent him back home

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to his home country. Again, the finding that he was

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a member of MS thirteen came up in the court,

415
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in the immigration court because Garcia had asked for bond okay,

416
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because they found that he had crossed the border illegally

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in twenty twelve, and he was therefore removable. That is

418
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,920
a totally independent question of whether or not then whether

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or not he was in MS thirteen. Right, you have

420
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,279
two specific data points there. Number one, did he come

421
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here illegally? And number two is he MS thirteen or

422
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,880
was he Two separate things, And the first one really

423
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,599
is the only one that matters. He was removable, and

424
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,319
so they removed him, all right, So spring is here

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a time of renewal and celebrations. He got graduations, weddings averse,

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and the special days for mom and dad. Your family's

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Call our News Foundation reporting the Trump administration says that

444
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,480
it is a broken record. Sorry, it has broken a record. Sorry, yeah,

445
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,119
that's my fault. It's broken a record for all time

446
00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:16,839
lowest border encounters in a single month. That marks a

447
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,079
dramatic turnaround from the monthly border encounters experienced under the

448
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,839
Biden White House, Which is weird. If I thought we

449
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:31,240
couldn't do anything unless we got that bad border bill passed.

450
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:38,640
Border patrol agents counted roughly see hundred eighty crossings, so

451
00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:43,799
seventy one eighty crossings along the US Mexico border during

452
00:25:43,839 --> 00:25:47,480
the month of March, according to data that was released

453
00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:51,720
yesterday by Customs and Border Protection. This figure comes in

454
00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:58,720
sharp contrast to the monthly average of one hundred and

455
00:25:58,839 --> 00:26:05,920
fifty five thousand border crossings. Yeah, from that's over the

456
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,039
previous four years, the average daily border crossings was fivey

457
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,559
one hundred. Okay, so you had fifty one hundred per

458
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:21,279
day under Biden and you have seventy two hundred in

459
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:28,119
one month under Trump. Daily southern border apprehensions have now

460
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,039
dropped to around two hundred thirty each day. So every

461
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,319
day along the border they apprehend two hundred and thirty people.

462
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,480
That is the lowest in recorded US history. Do you

463
00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:47,319
remember was it Mitt Romney who made the comment about

464
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:54,720
self deportation and everybody lost their minds And I never

465
00:26:54,799 --> 00:27:01,039
understood why, because that is simply stating fact that people

466
00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:07,039
will respond to incentives. It is a completely rational, logical

467
00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:11,039
thing to do. And so if it becomes too difficult

468
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:16,000
to enter, people cease trying to enter. If it becomes

469
00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:21,599
too difficult to stay, people will not stay. Those are

470
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:25,279
the incentives. You make it an unattractive thing for people

471
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:29,480
to do, then they won't do it as much. The

472
00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:33,519
incredible turnaround follows Donald Trump's overhaul of the immigration enforcement

473
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:36,759
system since re entering the White House in January his

474
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:41,079
administration declared an emergency that allowed more resources, including the military,

475
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:47,000
to be diverted to the border. The administration also successfully

476
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:50,480
coerced the Mexican and Canadian governments to beef up their

477
00:27:50,519 --> 00:27:56,759
own border security, and it scrapped a popularly used asylum

478
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,599
app and prioritized border wall construction. But you don't even

479
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,039
hear much about that anymore, do you. The border wall.

480
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,799
I haven't seen any real reporting on that since Trump

481
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,960
got in. I'm not saying there hasn't been. I'm just

482
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,960
saying I haven't seen it. And I followed the news

483
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,319
pretty closely, and I haven't seen anything. There's not been

484
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,759
any kind of outrage at you know, the construction of

485
00:28:20,759 --> 00:28:23,599
the wall going on. In all of this. I did

486
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,680
see stories that they scrapped the app and replaced it

487
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:31,079
with the CBP one app I think is what it

488
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,920
was called, which made it super easy for hundreds of

489
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,160
thousands of people to come in and claim asylum under

490
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:43,480
the you know, the multiple choice questions that they were asked,

491
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,519
and then you know, the people coming in were coached

492
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,119
by their coyotes who would say, you know, say yes, yes, no, no,

493
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,359
or whatever on the four questions, and then you would

494
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,480
get it, you would get the asylum, and you would

495
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,599
get a court date for like eight years from now,

496
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:01,720
and you were golden. It was a system constructed to

497
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,680
flood the country. That's why they made it so easy.

498
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,799
The Trump White House has also heavily leaned into interior

499
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,759
enforcement detaining and deporting criminal illegal migrants n mass across

500
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,440
the country, resulting in many illegal migrants too discouraged to

501
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:26,079
even try their chances at illegal entry at the US

502
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:32,359
Mexico border. I've said this for the last twenty years.

503
00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:35,119
That's how long we have been arguing over It's actually longer.

504
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,119
That's how long I've been arguing in this debate my

505
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:45,279
entire adult life, basically when illegal immigration exploded about twenty

506
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:49,359
years ago. And I have always said that it is

507
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,240
a rational thing for people in other countries, if they

508
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:57,400
want a better life, it's a rational thing for them

509
00:29:57,519 --> 00:29:59,680
to pick up and even make that kind of long

510
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:06,720
tread trek into America across the southern border. That is

511
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:13,079
the rational choice to make when the American government doesn't

512
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:18,000
care to enforce its own immigration law. Right if you can, like,

513
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:21,079
if you can get across the border, you can probably

514
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,279
end up staying for a very very very long time,

515
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,759
have kids here, they become citizens. You can then tether

516
00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:30,319
yourself to those kids and then bring in other family

517
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:33,400
members through the chain migration process. So it's a rational

518
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:38,480
thing for these families to do. I understand that. But

519
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:42,440
at some point the juice is not worth the squeeze, right,

520
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,279
At some point the risk of making that treacherous journey

521
00:30:46,359 --> 00:30:49,559
and then getting caught and sent back home. When you

522
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,799
believe that that is a more than likely outcome, then

523
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:55,000
you're not going to make the trip in the first place, which,

524
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:58,200
by the way, can save those people's lives and spare

525
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,839
some of those people from being assaulted along the way.

526
00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:07,079
Sanctuary jurisdictions across the country and other areas inundated with

527
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,240
illegal migrants, once overrun by the national border crisis, have

528
00:31:11,319 --> 00:31:14,160
steadily begun closing many of their migrant shelters. With so

529
00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:16,759
few illegal migrants coming in, local leaders said the cost

530
00:31:16,799 --> 00:31:20,720
of running the shelters is no longer justified. The dramatic

531
00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:25,000
changes at the southern border also sharply contrast from a

532
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,880
prevailing narrative during the twenty twenty four presidential question with

533
00:31:28,319 --> 00:31:31,680
election rather in which many Democrat opponents of Trump claimed

534
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,720
that the Biden's bad border bill deal was needed to

535
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:39,160
address the illegal immigration crisis. The changes currently happening at

536
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,640
the border have largely resulted from administrative changes by Trump.

537
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:49,000
No new congressional action was needed. It never was. It

538
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,400
never was. It's just a matter of will to enforce

539
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,799
the law. All right, that'll do it for this episode.

540
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:58,880
Thank you so much for listening. I could not do

541
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,079
the show without your support and the support of the

542
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:04,160
businesses that advertise on the podcast, so if you'd like,

543
00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:06,400
please support them too and tell them you heard it here.

544
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:09,039
You can also become a patron at my Patreon page

545
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,759
or go to thepetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so

546
00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:16,240
much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.