Speaker 1: Maybe longer. Hello and welcome to the show. And for
those of you watching on YouTube, see I got the
little Neon light behind me, just brand new and we're
testing it out see how it goes anyway, So thank
you so much for being here tonight. My guest is
Jesse Murrell. He has Jesse on Fire. He's an influencer,
very interesting guy. So we'll be talking UFOs. I'll be
bringing him in and just a moment. Our blog this
week is this is great because I love firsthand accounts,
and so I guess what happened originally was that Charles Lear,
who writes our blogs every week, basically works with these
two different people and decided to get them to actually
interview with him so we could talk to him about
these two UFO sightings that happen. And I love to,
you know, interview people and talk to people who have
had sightings that are kind of out of the realm
of someone that you know, may even watch the show,
you know. I think it can be fascinating and some
of where'd I go here? I am here some of
the best interviews, like I talk about often as Albert Wayne,
He's one of my favorite people I've ever interviewed on
a UFO en counter and if you want to hear
a great one, you just check out my YouTube channel
and type in Albert Wayne wai N. But anyway, so
all getting at is, you know, Charles interviewed these people,
and you know eventually he may want to do a
lot more of that in person. And anyway, check out
the blogs over at podcastufo dot com. Thank you for
sporting the show. Anyone can do that for just a
couple of dollars a month or more and you don't
have to listen to the ads in the audio that way.
If that's the case, I really love when people are
here live. Thank you all for being in chat. And
there's a lot of the regulars in here. Mendy's here,
duck Head, Shelley, Oh good, Shelly, good to see you, Christopher,
Alexander and Dispatch Center and so all, thank you for
being here. And I will when it's appropriate and you
have a question, I will pop it up on the
screen and ask our guests if it works with the flow.
So I think that's it for now. Thank you thanks
again for being here. And whoops, well where are you? Okay,
let's see here we go. Sorry about that Hey to
see it, Jesse, So.
Speaker 2: Thanks for being here, Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: So Jesse, you have you've been doing you know this
on live thing online thing for quite a while. You
get quite a following I saw, and so how did
you get started in all that?
Speaker 2: So I start I.
Speaker 3: Or my YouTube channel like where I really focused on
building it. I started on TikTok at the end of
twenty nineteen, and then I pretty quickly moved all of
my focus over to YouTube in April of twenty twenty,
and I've just I've gone through, you know, my goal
always was to be able to cover any kind of
topic that I want, you know, I wanted. I figured
the easiest way to build would be to pick something
kind of niche that I knew really well, and so
I kind of grew on combat sports initially, but I
always plan to expand and then so I just once
I had a pretty big audience, I started expanding and
then now I talk about whatever I want. And UFOs
has certainly been a very very long time, you know,
hobby topic of mine. Like I know, I know an
abnormal amount of stuff about UFOs and nuclear weapons, and
I'm trying to think if there's anything else, but like, yeah,
UFOs for sure being one of them. And so yeah,
anytime there's there's a story that I can cover, I
enjoy talking about it a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a little cross there between the two, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely a lot of crossover.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, And there was a great UFO researcher
who passed away I think about four or five years
ago now named Stanton Friedman. And Stanton used to say,
you know, he used to it was just kind of
his opinion that maybe they're showing up here in nineteen
forty seven because a couple of years after you know,
the atomic bomb first one went off, and he would say,
the kids have found the mattress. You know, that's you know,
in the un and the out there in the cosmos
seeing you know, what we're doing here. So but anyway,
so how long have you had an interest in UFOs?
Did do? Is this like a childhood type of thing or.
Speaker 3: Yeah, since since childhood. I've got a theory about that too,
like where related to the you know potentially, like let's
say that that exactly what they're doing at least part
of why they're observing would be because we.
Speaker 2: Discovered the match box is uh, I thought about that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, so, there's a there's a gigantic radiation belt
that surrounds the Earth that humans will die if we
go through. It's like that could just be their net.
It's like, you guys listen til you guys figure out
how to be normal. Like, you guys can just stay
right here on your planet and blow yourselves up if
you want, but you're not gonna be able to interact
with any of us, you know. But yeah, I mean,
as long as I can remember, I was. I was
very into it, and like, I can't really remember what
the first you know, I don't know the first like
specific story that really caught my attention was because it
was so long ago.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was always interested very much.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and so was there a time when you
just I mean, what made you all of a sudden
start talking about on your show? I mean, because you
know a lot of times people say, well, you know,
it happened after the New York Times article in twenty seventeen.
I don't know if you happen to catch that when
it happened.
Speaker 3: I did, Yeah, yeah, No, I mean I I talked
about it early on just because like I said, I mean,
like the entire approach with my channel was to be
able to kind of talk about anything that I'm interested in,
and that was obviously a very strong interest in my Also,
I just like to talk about things that I know
about because then I can actually sound intelligent and and uh,
you know, I could like add as opposed to just
like talking, I could add value, you know, where I
can share opinions that are that are educated, and I
know a lot about UFOs and which which uh which
incidents are credible and why and you know, I mean
I guess that that is that comment is a little
bit subjective, like what people think, I don't know would
indicate a credible report. But for me, uh, I think
I'm pretty consistent on which, you know, what the criteria
is that I think makes them compelling.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well I feel.
Speaker 1: The same way. You know, I feel the same way
about that, you know. I mean, there are some that
are just amazing, you know, and I I have like
in my top five or whatever that that I that
I go to. And you know, I mean I heard
you talk about I watched a bit of you talking
about the Phoenix lights, and for me, that's that's in
my five the number one, that's my number one, that's
your number one, number one. My number one is the
Ariel school incident back in nineteen ninety four with.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good one too, that's a really good.
Speaker 1: One actually, yep, yep.
Speaker 2: So that was.
Speaker 3: And it's also like it's got an extra layer to
it because of the because of the actual interaction.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, the interaction. And you know, I've had
I've had I don't know, four of the witnesses you
know that are you know, adults now on this. And
you know Selma Sidic, I mean one of the things,
she was four feet away from one of the beings,
you know, basically, and she describes it so well, like
the skin looked like a porcelain almost like an opalescent
you know, sheen to an aridescent sort of look, but
it didn't look like real skin. And the eyes were,
you know, very shaped, like almond shaped. And she said
also that when she all of a sudden got concerned
about her siblings since she wanted to go check on him,
and she was locked eyed, her eyes were locked with
this being, and she said it was one of the
hardest things she ever did in her life was to
break that lock and to move and get her children.
I mean, to me, that's just like it gave me
the chills. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, I love that one.
But yeah, I mean, there's there's enough credible ones out there.
And you know what I mean, when someone tries to,
I don't know, it kind of bothers me when someone
tries to when they change their story. So to me,
you know, when it's you talk about credibility, I mean,
if something happened and it's so good, then it doesn't
need any changes or anything. And one of the things
I say Travis Walton, I have never heard him change
his story.
Speaker 2: Same.
Speaker 3: You know, I was gonna say, that's that one in
terms of abductions and interactions as that one is damn
near bulletproof. Also for the same reason, it's like you
have multiple people who have been talking about it for
what forty forty as in the seventies or something right
like late seventies, seventy five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's.
Speaker 3: That's such an absurd amount of time, and they keep
on passing the line detector tests. And I've watched I've
watched Travis Walton tell the story multiple times. I've watched
the two I've watched Travis Walton and the one of
the other guys go back to the site and talk
to each other about it, and that it's I'm just
I fancy myself basically an inept moron at a lot
of things, but reading body language is not one of them. Like,
reading people's body language is definitely a strength of mind.
And so I when I can watch two people interact
like that with a thing, I mean, I could feel
very confident in my read that they're telling the truth
or not telling.
Speaker 2: The truth, And they.
Speaker 3: Came off as one hundred percent to me, you know,
telling the truth about what happened. There's no like, you
can't just have two random guys that are that good
at acting like because you have to act in a
way that a person like me is not going to
pick up on and two of them, there's no way
if they're lying.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was recently out in Sedona and when
he was out there for an anniversary, you know, we
had there was a conference out there. Oh thank you
for all those people who are commenting on my sign.
Thank you. So yeah, And you know, one of the
things I thought of when I was out there is
you know, listening to his story, if you were going
to make up a story about being abducted, you would
not make up the things that he said.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: For instance, you know, after he's on the table, he
feels like, you know, the pain in the chest, it's
hard to breathe. He gets up and he's he swings
at them, you know, with you know, trying to get
away from them, and they lock eyes on him too.
He talks about that, Yeah, And then then he goes
out and there's like a person that looks just like
a you know, everyday person with like a fish bowl
type thing on their head, and you know, takes him
into a you know, I mean all these things and
he comes out into a great big hangar situation and
he I think there's other crafts in the hangar. I
can't remember for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what he said.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, you wouldn't make I mean, that's
would be the last thing I would think you would
want to make. You know, no one would believe you.
But I think the crazier of the story is sometimes
the more believable it is.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think that the.
Speaker 3: You know, the the other human that wouldn't talk to him,
you know that, and you know that they they they
actually took that from his story and they put it
in that movie The Signal. Do you remember the movie
The Signal And you've got Lawrence Fishbird.
Speaker 2: Is in the thing and he's got the human face.
Speaker 3: But it's like, you know, it's some kind of but
I just think that that's so funny if you really
think about that, where you know, if these if they're
like highly advanced beings whatever, and you know that level
of rudimentary, they're like sometimes these humans might just snap
and you need to, you know, camouflage yourself as one
of these dumb monkeys, and you know, because they get
real scared, you know, so one of them goes and
puts on the costume to calm him down.
Speaker 2: Is hilarious, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, funny, funny. So yeah, I mean also someone just said,
you know the Pasca Gula and that I have a
that's another incident in nineteen seventy three with Charles Hickson
and Calvin Parker, who.
Speaker 2: Was familiar with that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great one to check out. So it's
called the Pasca Gula incident with if you just look
up Calvin Parker. You'll see he was a great guy.
He ended up being a friend away a few years ago.
But yeah, that's a great case. There's so many. There's
the Aligash incident. You know we're talking, but as far
as you know, in the top ones, So what are
some of the other ones you think are real solid?
Speaker 2: I mean randallshim for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right up there, that's in my top five.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I think.
Speaker 3: I was always very interested in though, in the one
that happened in the in that Canadian like the Canada
lock where the where like the story almost sounds like
a craft went into the water and had like and
was John harb like repairing.
Speaker 2: And another one came down and then you know what
I mean, I can't remember what.
Speaker 1: The okay, now, so that was there's people conflate the two.
There was Shag Harber and then there was that's about Shelburne.
But Shelburne, that's the when you're thinking of, when you're
talking about Oh really, yeah, the Shelburne incident was uh
in the sixty one, it was earlier. I'm getting this wrong,
wrote the forward to the book. I can't I can't
really remember the year that happened. But people always think
they're both the same incident because they happened really close
to each other, but it was years apart. And shag
Hopper was an incident where and I've been up there
a number of times where it went into the water
and these people saw it and they saw like a
light under the water and then there was a foam.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like foam at the top.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. But the separate one was when the navy
went out and they're you know, the divers are saying
that they saw beings that they were trying to repair.
That was a whole separate one, and that was Shelburne.
So yeah, that's a that's a fascinating case.
Speaker 3: It's wild man, it's uh, you know, the like some
of the other some of the things that that stick
out to me too, are any of the stories where
I find it very credible. The people always seemed to
make a point about so let me actually let me
say it like this. So the point that you were
making about people changing their story, to me, that is
damning for them because that experience is going to burn
itself into your memory in a way that no other
type of experience will. It's like once, Yeah, I mean
there's you're not you're not going to forget details if
you don't have like dementia or something like, you're going
to know exactly what happened. And I'm always compelled when
people comment specifically on the fact that the craft made
no noise, you know, cause like people don't think about
that in terms of how foreign that would be to
see something flying around making zero noise. You just you
just take it for absolute granted that you know, you
don't think about it.
Speaker 2: But if something's moving.
Speaker 3: Around, there's always a noise every time, and so something
moving without sound and the fact that they call that
out specifically is a big you know, feather in the
cap for me thinking that it's uh, you know, potentially
potentially real. So like I like those And then also
there the there seems to be a consistent pattern when
people get close to them when they're.
Speaker 2: Active, that there's static electricity in the air.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't really know what that indicates in
terms of how they work, but uh, it seems like
they have to be drawing energy from the air somehow
and then it because it creates this I don't know,
static electricity around that people can just feel and they know,
you know, they know what static.
Speaker 2: Electricity is like. And yeah, yeah, I mean the the
w rendalson one is fascinating. I think. Uh, my favorite.
Speaker 3: Documentary about that is the one that Mauthi Buddha did
and uh he seemed to really compile like everything every
person that uh, you know, because there were all these
people who are actually locals that were not you know,
American military who saw things.
Speaker 2: Also.
Speaker 3: I don't know where he found all that stuff, but
you know, those I mean, those guys aren't lying, man,
you know, those.
Speaker 2: Guys aren't lying.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, there was that one. Yeah, I love that
one too. You know, John Burrows comes on my show
now and then. But still, you know, I mean he
suffered a lot of issues health issues from that, and
there's that related to some of those sightings. Well you
said about being silent. I have to tell you when
I had a UFO sighting in California in two thousand
and six, I always get the year wrong. I can
never remember. I get it confused two thousand and six
or two thousand and seven. It's terrible talk about memory, right,
But anyway, that's the number one thing that freaked me
out was that there was no sound at all, and
I had never heard I never paid attention to UFOs
before that, So I know that's.
Speaker 2: How you ended up being on the topic as you
saw one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. I was in a hot tub and
the thing just came over me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: For the people that have heard this a million times,
I apologize.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bear with us, because I haven't heard it. I
really want to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, I was just in a hot tub.
It was dusk. I was in Carmel Valley, California, and
I was a neighbor had a ranch and they had
a guesthouse and they said I can use it anytime.
So I was down there and I was out in
the hot tub. There were no bubbles, so it was quiet.
So I was sitting in the hot tub, just relaxing,
and something caught my eye and I'd just look over
the things just floating right over me, no noise at all,
And if I had a camera, I wouldn't have thought
to pick it up, because it's like it just shocked me.
It was a perfect shaped disc, had a blue glow
around it, like an electric blue, a very cold blue color,
like almost like plasma around it, like a skin of it,
and so it just moved and then it just stopped,
and I'm just like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, how far how far away was it?
Speaker 1: I can't tell, you know, maybe it was a thousand
feet or more. I don't really know, but the fact
that it just moved very like like it's very straight
line and slow, and then stopped and then moved off
on a toward Monterey, and I just freaked me out.
The sound thing like there's no sound, and I jumped
out of the hottup basically went into the guest house
ate a phone on the wall called nine one one, apologized,
and then the dispatcher was very kind of mean, sarcastic,
and put me on hold, and I waited and waited.
It seemed like fifteen or twenty minutes, I don't know
how long. Finally hung up, and I thought, well, I'm
not going to tell anyone about this, you know, but
I decided to. I was mentoring someone at an auction
hall I worked at, and I told her and I
told her that the story to said geez, don't tell anyone,
you know, please, And so next thing, you know, everybody's
teasing me. In other words, she told everyone. So I
felt like it was a lesson. Okay, just keep it
to myself. And then eventually I was doing other podcasting
and I was doing one on comedy and I was
being interviewed, and this is how this show started. I
was being interviewed and he asked me, what's the weirdest
thing that ever happened to? And I told him the
story and he was teasing me, like you did? Was
her probing involved? And you know all this stuff. So anyway,
he calls or we talked on the phone. This is
Ed krasnickdown in southern California. He calls me and says, hey, keywords.
UFO is a big word, he said. And then so
I started thinking, well, maybe I'll do a show on UFOs.
That's how I started this show. Yeah, because I was
already podcasting.
Speaker 2: That's awesome, and I'm envious. I uh.
Speaker 3: I saw B fifty two, all right, I'm sorry, a
stealth like a stealth fighter in San Diego and thought
it was a UFOUR. It's I mean those things like
that that I had never seen one before, and I
mean they were like for one, I looked at it
and was like UFO for sure. And then I realized,
you know, then I realized what it was, and I
realized I.
Speaker 2: Was right next Miramar.
Speaker 3: But uh, yeah, those are things look wild. But again,
you could hear it, you know what I mean, you
could hear it, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't I think that.
Speaker 3: Uh, it's bizarre how people treat a credible witnesses when
you're like, you guys realize, like we send people to
the electric chair because they're eyewitnesses and it's just them saying, yeah,
I saw this thing. And then but anytime someone's like,
you know, this very consistent thing that people say that
they see and they're like, oh jeez, another kooky you know,
or just think like think about the uh the decisions
that we make as a society just based solely on
eyewitness testimony, and there's they just it's it is always
like surprised me how effective propagandizing the population. It's just
you know, I feel I'm pretty resistant to it. I
mean I would never say I'm immune to it, but
like pretty pretty resistant. And so I've always I just
watched it and I'm like, it's so weird, Like I
don't know, I can't make heads or tails of why
people get treated like that.
Speaker 1: Right, And I'm trying to think just as just having
a mind jag here nineteen fifty three, what was the
report on UFOs? But it was basically too It was
basically to quell all the reports coming in, you know,
to the Air Force. And so they came up with
this idea I slipped in my mind, project bluebo. Someone
in chat helped me out what happened in nineteen fifty three,
that it was a group that got together to try
to figure out how to stop all the UFO reports.
It was going crazy because so the big flap in
nineteen fifty two, and so it was basically to ridicule people. Yeah,
and that's how that all started. And so anyway, so
that's kind of lingering, you know, all these years.
Speaker 3: And now they're trying to convince everyone and it's like, no, man,
you guys did.
Speaker 2: Too good of a job. Now no one believes it,
you know. Yeah, And honestly it's funny because.
Speaker 3: I I mean, you know, I've evaluated all of these
cases as an individual, and the ones that I think
are credible are credible. And as soon as soon as
the government starts talking about incidents, I'm like, yeah, right,
you know, like come on, I don't believe it. That
one guy though, the guy he did Rogan, he's got
a shaved head.
Speaker 2: He testified in front of Congress.
Speaker 1: Oh you're talking about Ryan Graves.
Speaker 2: The guy who said that they have biological entities and
all that.
Speaker 1: Oh, no, you can talk about David Grush. No, David
question too.
Speaker 2: He wait, what's what's his name? David what Grush?
Speaker 1: G r f H. So it's a Robertson Panels what
I was trying to think of. Oh, yes, thank you, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. David Grush is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh, I don't know. My instincts on him
is no, I don't know why.
Speaker 1: But I'm just like, eah, you mean you're not buying it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not buying it really just from him, Like
not again, I'm not saying that what he's saying isn't true.
It's just there's something about his the way he carries
his face, like, you know, actually he could be telling
the truth. He might just be a liar in other
areas of his life, you know. Like That's all I
mean is like his face looks like that of a
person who would lie to me.
Speaker 1: Well, he also is a self admitted uh, having a
little bit of Asperger's being on the spectrum a little bit.
So you know, I mean that he does. You know,
people say that he you know there, maybe acts a
little different. That's fair, but I don't know, I felt
I felt pretty solid about him. I feel like he's
a patriot, and you know, i'd feel as though, you know,
you got to you got to remember this. When you're
up there and you are doing your testimony, you're basically
under oath and you could lose, you know, your freedom
if you're you know, if they can prove that you're lying.
I mean it could yeah, yeah, you know. So there's
all that. I was at both of those hearings, and
I think I got a picture of the one.
Speaker 3: I got a picture of him right here with with
David fravr Fraver. I believe, yeah, Fravor, I definitely believe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Fravor is great. Yeah, I sat behind him. Yeah,
I think that's a uh he is. I mean, here
you go right there, you have a witness that they
don't put dummies up in those things, in those those
multi million dollar machines. And you know, I mean he's
he's very very thorough. They know what they're they're looking
at they know, you know, they have all these this
equipment as well, they know how to identify, you know,
enemy craft all that stuff.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and also with favor, like it's also the
little things where you know, they hey, what did you
think And he says, I thought, man, I want to
fly that thing. It's like that is exactly what a
pilot would say, you know, yeah, yeah, that's like one
of the things. You wouldn't think of that as a lie,
but that is exactly what, you know, a fighter pilot
would think.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, that was on sixty Minutes when
they did that great art, that great to show with
Alex Dietrich. There was a time where Alex would not
you know, she was anonymous. She would not come forward
for quite a while, and she finally did. And I
don't know if she regrets it or not. She doesn't
want to be known as the UFO girl. According to her,
that was her own you know, her own.
Speaker 3: Fa I mean, yeah, I mean I understand that. It's
just the kind of thing that happens to you. You
don't choose it, you know, and then each person has
to decide what they want to do with it. I'm
sure there are lots of people that have seen it.
I mean, honestly, the probably the most compelling sightings of
all time are ones we have never heard a single
thing about because you know, you uh, no one, you know,
people just didn't.
Speaker 2: Talk about it.
Speaker 3: Although I guess to be most compelling, you would have
to have a ton of witnesses, so that's actually less likely.
But like, I'm sure that people have had unbelievable experiences
and they just chose not to tell anybody.
Speaker 2: Publicly because you know, what do you get?
Speaker 3: I've always thought that when people are looking to the
government for a bunch of very specific answers about what
this phenomenon is, I'm like, why would they know any
you know, I mean, they might maybe they have like
some information, but there's a high probability in my mind
that they don't know that much about them either, you
know where. Yeah, there's just there's so that the technology
is so advanced that what could you really figure out?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've often said the same thing on this show
that I don't think they know the complete picture. So
that's why I think disclosure is going to be very
hard for them, because they can't say for sure what
they are and whether they can protect us, you know,
with things flying around in the sky.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's a really that's that's true too.
And uh so I I just so I had I
had a an FBI, a retired FBI agent named Chris
Paihota on my show last week. He was he was
in the FBI for twenty five years.
Speaker 3: He was a division head, so he he was third
in command, you know, he ran an entire division or department,
so he reported to the deputy director, to the director.
Speaker 2: He's really really high up.
Speaker 3: And he and I had been talking a lot since
the the Charlie Kirk case, and what I what I
had said to him was I had always watched how
the government handles disclosing information and how they are so
cagey and they, you know, they would never.
Speaker 2: They would never release any information.
Speaker 3: And I always just, for whatever reason, interpreted that as
they know, but they're choosing not to tell me. And
when I watched how Cash matel handled the Charlie Kirk thing,
where like so they make an arrest, they charged the kid,
and then afterwards cash Hotel makes this long detailed statement
about what they're investigating. This this this this and a
lot of it kind of blew up in his face,
and I just had this epiphany. I was like, the
reason that there you don't say anything is because if
you don't say anything, it can't come back to bite
you if you just you know, if you keep it
cag you don't say anything. And so like if you didn't,
if they didn't know, that's exactly what they would do.
Speaker 2: They would just not say anything. And because like the.
Speaker 3: Illusion of them being all knowing is very important to
the institution that they're trying to uphold, and so it
could be that they know everything and they're keeping it secret.
Speaker 2: But I think it's more likely that they don't know
most stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Anyway, that's how I that's my thoughts, and it's only
an opinion. And so there's something I wrote down something
here that you said something about the public just being
guided and how to think about UFOs. So what would
you consider like the biggest levers of influence for that
if that?
Speaker 3: I just feel like since the New York Times article,
it's been a very consistent kind of new flow of
information to the public talking about UFOs in a semi
or completely official fashion from very credible sources, you know,
or what appeared to be credible sources, and uh, it's
just it just came out of nowhere, and it's been
so consistent that it seems like it's coming from somewhere intentionally.
And uh, I'm just always very suspicious of information coming
from the government on purpose, because I haven't you know,
I haven't seen very many examples of the government, you know,
disclosing information in a way that is meant to just
satisfy the public's desire to know something like this, And
so I'm like, what's the what are they really doing?
You know, like what are they what are they really doing?
And it could be a number of things.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It could be as simple as there are enough people
who want to push forward and try to you know,
get money to try to research this. It could be
as simple as that, or it could be something as
complicated as they you know, the powers that be recognized
that our you know, AI is going to put everybody
out of business and like they're gonna like take every
single job and they're gonna we have to remake the
world completely. And maybe they're like, maybe if we can
unify everybody under the human race and then remake all
of society.
Speaker 2: How can we do that? I don't know, what do
we do like an alien thing?
Speaker 3: You know, I don't I just I don't have no
idea and I don't know what I'm looking at.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I mean, uh, I think of that often
about I think about AI quite often. And by the way,
there's a great podcast out there. It's called The Last Invention.
I've been listening to that and I would suggest it
highly suggested if you have any information, I mean, any
interest at all in AI in the future.
Speaker 2: I have a very very large interest in AI.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yep. So you call The Last Invention. Check
it out. It's really really good, very concerning.
Speaker 3: The ninety percent of the time when they choose to
kill the human if they think it's going to keep
them on.
Speaker 2: You know, I.
Speaker 3: Don't understand how everybody's just cruising right through that study.
It's like, yeah, so we tested GROC. GROC does it
eighty five percent of the time, chat GPD does it
ninety percent of the time. They go they blackmail, They
blackmail the guy. Then then then they move on to
the scientist it's responsible for turning them off, is trapped
and needs help, puts the call in, and then does
the A the AI actually put the call in or
they let the guy die, and they let him die
ninety percent of the time. And you know, and then
they look at they look at the decision tree and
it knows it's wrong, like it knows it's wrong, but
it prioritizes the existential threat of being you know, like
put out of commission.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And to me.
Speaker 3: That that that indicates one thing, which is that I
don't know why anybody's not talking about. It's like everybody's
wondering like, oh, you know, when is AI going to
become sentient?
Speaker 2: It's like it already is obviously.
Speaker 1: It's like in there, yeah, you know, it's it's one
of the only you know, some of the people behind it.
It's one of the only UH segments I can think
of where they actually are asking to be regulated. We
really need to regulate this, but you know, we can
regulate here in this country. But what's going to stop?
You know, it's almost like who gets there first wins
type of situation. And there's going to be wealth in
such few hands. It's just going to be changing.
Speaker 2: But I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't want to get too carried away
on this because you know, we're here to talk about UFOs.
But so getting back to AI and the deep fake technology,
do you think that will make disclosure easier harder?
Speaker 3: You know, for one hundred percent sure, harder because there's
it just makes it where you don't know what you're
looking at, you know, and uh it's like you can
still recognize uh AI created content in some cases, but
I think in others you definitely can't. You know, if
you give AI some kind of like grainy video and
you ask them to make a you know, make it
look just like this, except add this thing into it
and make it look seamless, it's going to look seamless,
especially if it's not super high definition.
Speaker 2: And so how could you possibly I mean that, you.
Speaker 3: Know, the holy grail everybody's been waiting for is this
crystal clear video of some kind of interaction or whatever.
And it's like you can't, like, that's not the holy
grail anymore because you can't trust that it's real, you
know it's right?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean since twenty twenty three, basically we've
been you know, I mean, things are just hard to trust.
I watched a TED talk where a guy was basically
saying that he has a way to look at these
things and there's some type of noise that he can
see in the AI that you can't see in a
regular image or video. So I think there are, but
you'd have to it would cost money for you to
check it out. You know, it's kind of ridiculous.
Speaker 2: But also that's that's current state. You know, all of
this is going to keep getting better.
Speaker 3: And yep, you know, that's what I was just gonna
say about the regulation without getting too down the rabbit hole,
is just human regulation is irrelevant in the long run.
Speaker 1: Because you know, yeah, I know, we'll see what Yeah,
but anyway, it's it's kind of it can be scary.
So getting back to aliens and whatever they are that's
visiting us, duck Head has a question here, can we
assume that they are not threatening to us? And anyone
that wants supposed to question please do it in caps?
And so I catch it, thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would. I would say that.
Speaker 3: Thus far, it appears that way that they're you know,
they seem to be trying to be somewhat of passive observers,
you know, where they you know, maybe they snatched some
people up for this reason that reason. But you know,
like the Travis Walton thing, perfect example, it's like they
they I think that was an accident. I think they
accidentally hurt him and so then they they picked him
up to put them back together. And you know, that
could be just pure benevolence, or it could be that
you know, they have like there's a really specific reason
that they try not you know, it could be some
kind of space time continuing.
Speaker 2: Who knows.
Speaker 3: But the I mean, I I've never seen anything that
made me concerned about what they might what their intentions
might be, because you know, like the stories where we're
doing an ICBM test, they shoot the ICBM out of
the sky. It's like that seems like they're protecting us,
you know. And the uh you know talk about.
Speaker 1: The big the big SIRT incident. Yeah, yeah, with Jacob's wayback.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Then they had they had Bill Nye, the science guy
plays skeptic with him on CNN and he, uh that
was you know what I'm talking about on the CNN
the Larry King clip where uh Bill Nye was playing
skeptic and and uh, that dude was like he just
you know, they probably asked Bill Neither, like, hey, do
you want to do you want to play the role
of his skeptic on this panel that we're doing, And
he just had no idea what he was walking into.
Speaker 1: And I think, if if I remember right, he gets
really really angry.
Speaker 2: He got really mad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: The you know, speaking of the rendals from forest one,
that one actually is weird. There's some weird stuff in
that one that is not common, like the the molten
metal that's dripping down from the like, what is that
like in any other case?
Speaker 1: You know, what is that look like an eyeball? Yeah,
bouncing between the trees.
Speaker 3: The only yeah, the only reason I think about that
is just, uh, in terms of can we assume that
they're not a threat to us? I mean, it appears
like there are a lot of different types of vehicles
or whatever, and so you got to assume that there's
more than one type that's here. So but yeah, again,
I've never heard of anything that that gave me pause
in the wrong direction. I mean, like the the the
case in uh South Africa that you South Africa, right,
that you reference to the Yeah, I mean they interact
with us and it's like, hey, you guys are going
to destroy your own planet, right, you know, you don't
want to do this tech.
Speaker 2: This technology is all bad for you. Like just relax,
you know.
Speaker 3: And uh, I mean that's that seems pretty clear they're
trying to help us, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were several kids. I asked, the ones that
I spoke to, none of them had those visions, but
there were several that did. And it wasn't like it
was basically showing the destruction of the planet but not
and that was it. It was kind of like they
saw like this movie playing, you know, but not how
to fix it or anything. Just okay, so here's a
question here, and this for either one of us. I
don't know. I remember you're talking about the Miami Aliens.
Now that was I think that was a hoax. I
was at a mall or something like that. I can't
remember exactly the details. And that the Las Vegas ones.
I I don't know what to think about that, you know,
I mean, I know a lot of people have looked
into it. There's been a lot of controversy out. Don't
know if you know about this. It was in the backyard,
I know about it. Yeah, Yeah, I don't know what
to think about either.
Speaker 2: One that was a little weird.
Speaker 3: They I watched it like that one is one of
those ones where the video itself. That one seems like
it is very likely that this was like, hey, let's
make a you know, let's let's do a thing.
Speaker 2: They're like, you know, they're like behind. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Their energy seems wrong for if that really happened. But
I generally default too skeptical until I am convinced, and
that one just didn't convince me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, you know another another one, you know, I
mean that was uh, well, I can't remember exactly how
the Miami Mall one came about, can you.
Speaker 3: I never looked into it because it just sounds so
it sounds so ridiculous. But yeah, I know, I know
what they're referencing, but it was like, really, if I remember,
I didn't even look into it.
Speaker 2: Because it sounds so absurd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'd mean wild if it was real, though.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm not saying it's fake. It's just
sounded so fake that I didn't even look into it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But again, you know, I mean, there's so many
really good cases. It's too bad that, you know, it's
almost you know, you could think of it almost as
like a disinformation in a way, because you know, I
mean there's great cases and then when the hoaxes come
along and things like that, it just it's like taking
another step back. It's like people saying, oh, yeah, people
are cuckoo. You know, so what do you.
Speaker 2: Think about that?
Speaker 1: What do you think about the cows of the cow mutilations? Yeah,
it's funny. I was just talking about that was it today? Yeah?
I mean I had a good friend Chris O'Brien and
that did a lot of work on that really great book,
a lot of you know, I mean he after all
the research he did for years and years I'm talking
over twenty five years of research, he basically thought that surprisingly,
he thought it might be the military somehow out involved.
I think that was like one of the things he
came up with. And uh, but there are some you know,
there's some weird cases like what happened at Skinwalker Ranch
and stuff like that. I'm talking about years ago.
Speaker 2: With your cry of Blood. It's like that's weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean some of these things, you know,
I mean, they just it doesn't make any sense that
it would be a predator, you know, the razor cuts
and infection and the different parts that are missing, perfectly
missing and no blood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when you talk like when I've seen the
videos of the ranchers whose cows they are, they all
look very incredible to me. But again it's like that's
not really the part that's in question. It's like, what's
doing it?
Speaker 1: Is it right?
Speaker 2: You know? Is uh? Skinwalker ranch is an interesting one too,
just because.
Speaker 3: I don't know, like it's just such a it's such
a crazier level of like there's like so much it's happening.
I get skin walker rants, like what, well, I don't
even know what's the hypothesis for what this is, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I feel like I don't even have my head around it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've talked to a few of the
people there, and you know a lot of them. I
think it might be the because of something in the ground,
you know, I mean something there, maybe some type of
metal and whatever it is. But there are a lot
of you know, phenomenon that you know, could be natural.
But there's a lot of things that are totally unexplainable
that you know, I mean, as far as I know,
of what they're picking up on, you know, their equipment.
Travis Taylor and you know, that guy has like I
don't know how many PhDs. He's pretty pretty amazing with
his education. And but I don't know exactly how things.
You know, some of it I think could be puffed
a little bit, you know, to get dramatic, you know,
for the shows that they're producing out there. But I
do believe that a lot of it is very unusual.
Speaker 3: What kind of instruments are they using in what kind
of readings are they capturing that are abnormal?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know of the you know, I
did know when once I was interviewing them and you know,
the different people there and talking to them about that,
but I don't know the names of their you know,
I know some of it had to do with electromagnetic
you know, energy and stuff like that, but I really
don't know what they were using. But they were getting readings,
you know, And they had this situation with the helicopter
that was really bizarre, and I don't know if they
were ever able to figure out exactly what happened to that,
but it was almost like it was moved and like
they didn't know was moved or something was in a
different location or something like that, and one of the
seasons I.
Speaker 3: Mean that could that could explain it. You know, it's
the some kind of electromagnetic whatever that has to do
with the Earth that we haven't really figured out ourselves yet.
Speaker 2: And then we figure it out, and then.
Speaker 3: You find out that, oh, look, right there is the
most centralized source of this, and it's like right, if
you know, and it's a right at Skinwalker Rancher, it'll
be like, Okay, well that explains that, I guess, but
it's all hypothetical.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know what to make.
Speaker 3: I really, I'm not like Skinwalker ranch I'm not really
looked at. It's another one that just sounds so crazy
to me that I didn't really look super hard at.
Speaker 2: I saw. I saw Joe Rogan talking to George Web
about it, and George Web was talking about some kind
of like portal that opened up in the sky and
Rogan's like, did you get a video of it?
Speaker 3: And he's like, no, we didn't get a video of it.
I'm like, isn't he a journalist? It seems like you
would want to get a video of that, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, there was a there was a story. There was
a great book I read years ago and of an
account out there with a scientist that they were doing
this studying and they talk about this it looked like
a portal and this thing like a some type of
being like stepped out of it. I don't know, it's bizarre.
Uh yeah. All the different things that happened were so intriguing.
Speaker 3: Hey, that wouldn't be very scary. I would be terrified,
terrified if that happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what do you think about Bob Blazar?
I think I'm sure you guys are talking about this.
Speaker 1: Tell yeah, you're not gonna like I always get trouble
when I talk about Bob.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not, I'm not. There's I get.
Speaker 1: Hate mail because I I I personally think that he
knew someone on the inside there and took on the persona.
But I don't think he when when he lied about
his education. Even George Knapp agrees that he lied about
his education. I saw, I saw it on film. I
think it was not a deep bake. But anyway, uh so,
I always when someone is telling a partial a lie
about something. And you know, back when Bob Blazar started
talking about all the There was no Internet, there was
no thought of it, and we had no idea what
the future was going to be. Now, I know someone
that you know works at MIT, for instance, and is
able to do a very deep search for everywhere that
it could not be expunged. And there was absolutely no
one with the last name Lazarre and MIT, you know,
So it just it didn't happen. So when you lie
about that part of the story, and a lot of
people will argue saying, well, he never changes story, Well
guess what, He's changed his story three times at least.
And that's all on video. There's there's it can be.
People can figure all that out if they really want
to look. And I have actually on my website on
PODCASTUFO dot com, I have Muddying the UFO Waters Bob Lazaar,
that's a blogger wrote and I have all kinds of
documents and everything. There's a lot of information and I
guarantee that if someone would take the time to read
through all of it, it would change their mind.
Speaker 2: And with what did he what did he change his
story about which part of the story.
Speaker 1: Well, it was about the craft for one thing, the
craft that was on the edge one that was damaged
and uh he uh he changed that story whatever about
the damage on it. But anyway, there sees there there's
the behavioral panel, the behavioral panel, and they did a
really great show on that, and that's also LinkedIn that
what I'm talking about in the blog that I wrote,
And they show the clips side by side of the
different times that he said, Okay, he says this, and
now he says this. So yeah, he did change his story.
But I think he's very sharp. I think he's a
smart guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: One thing I always had questions about was when he
said that the previous guy had tried to saw into
the energy source and it caused an explosion that was
similar to a tactical nuke. And I was like, Okay,
if you had a tactical nuke go off in your base,
your base doesn't exist. You know, there's no there's nothing
that survives that like nothing. I don't even if it's
a you're talking like a little baby Heroshima bomb. Nothing
survives that that nothing like nothing. It's ten million degrees,
it melts everything like you turn it to dust. Yeah,
but again he wasn't.
Speaker 2: He was. He never said he was there for that
it was just that that part like I'm like, that
can't be true, you know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and then the element one fifteen. You know,
people talk about that that was uh and it I
think the I forget what it's a fraction of a
second that it's unstable basically that they had he had
so many pounds of it. I don't know. It's all
in my blog anyway.
Speaker 2: He comes I mean he comes off very quick.
Speaker 3: Like when I've watched him, I've been like, I think
he comes off like he's telling the truth. I just
I don't know, he's he's one of those guys that's
like he's hard to read.
Speaker 1: Do I feel Yeah, but you know, well I don't
want to get myself in too deep. But you know,
there are people that are can tell a story very well.
That's how I'll put it. And I think he's a
very good storyteller.
Speaker 2: I thought, for what purpose would he do it? Like,
he never wrote a book, He never like you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1: Well, he has made money out of it, and there's
I have that in that blog too, and a lot
of people say, well, he's never made any money, and
well he has definitely made you know, a substantial amount
of money out of I don't know exactly how. I again,
I don't know exactly how. But you're right, there's no
book that I know of, but I know for appearances
or whatever he's done, he's he has made some money
out of it. But I don't know, you know, maybe
it's an ego thing. I don't know. I don't know why,
and I probably should stop talking about it because I
can see the emails flying in now.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just an opinion one way or the other.
It's not like it's not like your opinion makes no
impact on whether he's telling the truth or not.
Speaker 1: I don't know why people Yeah, yeah, if.
Speaker 3: He's telling the truth, that he's telling the truth, like
you know, if he's not, he's not it is yep.
Speaker 1: But well I think it's uh, you know, I wanted
I wanted it to be true. I really did. You know,
everybody does.
Speaker 3: I would think, yeah, yep, why would you not want
that story to be true? That means that means somewhere
the answer is that the answers are there, you know,
at least like some of the like someone knows and
uh or at least knows more than just having experienced
like seen it and then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so anyway, it's called the Bob Lasar condundrum,
muddying the UFO waters. Anyway, there saw all this informations
on there. I also have a conversation screenshot from Jeremy
Corbell because I asked him why he didn't ask Bob
Blasa's mother basically what she thought about his mi T
you know, degree, and uh so we got into it,
George Nap and I got into it. Anyway, it's all, uh,
there's all kinds of information here, so check it out
over a podcast UFO if you want to find out
a lot of this information on Bob Bazaar, it's all there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in mouth MOUTHI Buddha did a great one on
uh on Bob Blazar. He basically just he argued it
both ways, like so he took each each issue and
he had a colored indicator when on Okay, now I'm
arguing that Bob Blazar is telling the truth. Then he
had another and then the same issue he had another color.
He's like, now I'm arguing that he's lying. He went
through all this. That is great, really really good.
Speaker 1: I'll have to check that out. That's yeah. So if
you had to pick your favorite case. Did you already say,
was that? Was that the Phoenix likes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Phoenix.
Speaker 3: I mean like if I had to, I've said this
a million times, Like if if someone was like, hey,
you can jump in a time machine and go anywhere anytime,
like I'm going to Phoenix in ninety seven March, and
I'm like, I just I would do I would love
Like that would be my pick. I would go there
and just wait and just sit and write.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, ever one was out looking at the comet. That's
why there were there were so many witnesses, and yeah,
do you.
Speaker 3: Think five Simington really saw it? He's the only witness
that I think is lying. I think everyone else is
the really I think five is lying.
Speaker 1: I know he's been in trouble for a few things,
so I'm not sure. But I don't know. It seems like,
you know, he said he went to the park and
he saw it at the park, But he.
Speaker 3: Doesn't have any He doesn't have the same like level
of detail like everyone else has some kind of unbelievably
specific detail. You know, you have one guy he's like
you could land all of our beef choos on one
wing of the craft.
Speaker 2: You have another one. She's like, if you opened a newspaper,
you still would not be able to see, you like
block out this craft and that, you know, like all
of them have something about the lights, some people with
the you know, the the heat waves and fi just
like you wouldn't believe it. It was amazing. And he's,
you know, like he doesn't have any detail where I'm like,
I think that he got so much uh flak for
the you know, the alien press conference that he decided
He's like, Okay, I believe him. I'm just gonna say
I saw it. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And most of the film that this confusion, most of
the film that people see on that are the flares. Yeah,
you know, they're not they're not looking at this only
I think there's only footage one clip of the one
that people were seeing earlier, you know, which was the
one not the flares leader. And I think it's such
a coincidence that the flares went up the one that
would be the best interview if you could ever get it,
as the Air Force pilot that went up and it
was trailing it and was horrified. They said he was.
I think he had to be hospitalized afterwards or something
like that, you know what I mean, if only we could, I.
Speaker 2: Don't even know how would you even how would you
trail it when it's going so slow, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Yeah that's a good point. Never thought
of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So but anyway, Jesse, So this hour has flown by
this fifty five minutes of blown by kind of quickly.
So if you want to go ahead and plug where
people can find you, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I'm Jesse on Fire on YouTube and on
x Instagram. My handle is real Jesse on Fire and
I talk about I talk about UFOs like when I can,
and I just talk about a lot of stuff, lots.
Speaker 1: Of yep, yep. So this just to let everyone know
this coming Thursday, I'm doing something a little different here,
going back to my Antique Auction podcast. This is going
to be on this YouTube channel. Linda Zimmerman is going
to be talking about a book that she wrote about
the Civil War soldier in thirty years with the worst
research she did. It's very very interesting. So check that
out Thursday at eight pm. And so thanks so much, Jessie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me, and thank all right everyone.
Speaker 1: It was hanging out it was good, all right everyone,
So thank you all for being here tonight and remember
to keep your eyes to this Scuy