WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Monster House Presents.

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<v Speaker 2>It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. A giant,

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<v Speaker 2>hairy creature Part eight parts in Luckness, a twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>mile long bottomless lake in the Highlands of Scotland. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a creature known as the Luckness Monster.

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<v Speaker 1>Monster Talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Blake Smith and.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Karen Hey. They're Monster Talkers. Last Wednesday we recorded

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<v Speaker 2>a roundup episode of Monster News and had some plans

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<v Speaker 2>for talking about what's coming up soon and what.

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<v Speaker 1>We've been working on.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I got word that my friend, colleague and mentor,

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Nicol, had passed away at the age of eighty

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<v Speaker 2>and had decided to record this remembrance.

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<v Speaker 1>In lieu of this week's plan content.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll release our original recording in the feed next week,

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<v Speaker 2>but for now, I just wanted to share some thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>about Joe's life. Joe had been sick for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>He was suffering with the sorts of ailments that a

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<v Speaker 2>crew from eighty years of adventurous living and curiosity, and

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<v Speaker 2>he knew something in this collection of symptoms was probably

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<v Speaker 2>going to be the thing that took him out. But

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<v Speaker 2>he was actively working on two follow up volumes to

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<v Speaker 2>the Science of Monsters. I don't know if those projects

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<v Speaker 2>will be forthcoming or not. I still need to talk

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<v Speaker 2>with his typist to find out where he was on

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<v Speaker 2>those projects. But if it's possible for me to help

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<v Speaker 2>him become published, you'll hear about it here. If you've

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<v Speaker 2>listened to Monstra Talk for a while, you know what

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<v Speaker 2>a friend Joe was to me and to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>He really loved the work that Karen and I do here,

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<v Speaker 2>and he took a bunkiller approach to trying to guide

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<v Speaker 2>us to what he thought was our best future. He'd

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<v Speaker 2>say things like, don't just podcast, make sure you also

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<v Speaker 2>write up your investigations and get them in print, because

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<v Speaker 2>people are lazy and they won't cite your show, but

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<v Speaker 2>a magazine article will get cited by other researchers.

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<v Speaker 1>And that can help build your reputation. He was full

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<v Speaker 1>of advice like that, and he had a life also

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<v Speaker 1>full of adventure.

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<v Speaker 2>I met Joe as an investigator of alleged cases of

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<v Speaker 2>the paranormal or the supernatural, but over the years of

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<v Speaker 2>our acquaintance, I learned a little bit more about the

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<v Speaker 2>many other aspects of his life, and it might surprise

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<v Speaker 2>you if you know how assiduously Joe avoided the Internet

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<v Speaker 2>and computers and mobile phones to find out that he

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<v Speaker 2>has a website. But he does, and if you go

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<v Speaker 2>to a link on there called personas, you'll find more

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<v Speaker 2>than a thousand jobs and certifications, advocations, hobbies, or other

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<v Speaker 2>specializations that he explored over his life. His life is

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<v Speaker 2>what you get when a person with unlimited curiosity manages

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<v Speaker 2>to have the financial means to explore many of their

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<v Speaker 2>intellectual whims or to tackle side quests that might intimidate

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<v Speaker 2>a more fearful personality. I think the first case Joe

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<v Speaker 2>and I collaborated on was the Watertown ghosts, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>glad that that was the one I reached out to

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<v Speaker 2>him on because I had already done my homework. I'd

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<v Speaker 2>run some seriously obscure leads to ground, and I pulled

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<v Speaker 2>together a robust timeline of the known events. I spoke

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<v Speaker 2>with the widow of one of the main investigators. I

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<v Speaker 2>tracked down his remaining friends, I sent a research agent

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<v Speaker 2>into the National Archives. I did deep photographic analysis. In

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<v Speaker 2>other words, the first time I reached.

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<v Speaker 1>Out to Joe about a case that I was working

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<v Speaker 1>on was through.

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<v Speaker 2>A very thorough effort, and he took me very seriously

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<v Speaker 2>as an investigator. But over the course of acquaintance in

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<v Speaker 2>a friendship, I don't it was a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 2>But over the course of that I saw him work

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<v Speaker 2>with other investigators who were not as far along in

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<v Speaker 2>their projects or their case, or maybe they weren't his

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<v Speaker 2>experience in their approach, and he treated them the same

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<v Speaker 2>like a fellow investigator talking to a senior colleague or

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<v Speaker 2>talking to a senior detective. He loved teaching and being

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<v Speaker 2>a mentor, and he could be extraordinarily generous with his

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<v Speaker 2>time and with his expertise.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Biggest challenges to working with Joe was his almost comical

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<v Speaker 2>rejection of modern information technology. But Joe wasn't a luddite.

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<v Speaker 2>He would not hesitate to use a computer in a

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<v Speaker 2>research setting, but where many people see these devices as

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<v Speaker 2>communication tools or research age, he saw these things as

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<v Speaker 2>insidious distractions that had misled many users into a false

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<v Speaker 2>sense of accomplishment. If he did a research project and

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<v Speaker 2>then posted a five or ten message thread on social media,

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<v Speaker 2>Joe saw that as a waste of potential. He believed

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<v Speaker 2>that printed journals and magazines would endure and be treated

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<v Speaker 2>as serious scholarship, but that the Internet as a whole

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<v Speaker 2>was just a honey trap that could make you feel

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<v Speaker 2>like you'd done something meaningful, but which would then evaporate

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<v Speaker 2>into the universe without leaving so much as a breadcrumb

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<v Speaker 2>that you'd pass by that you'd see a mystery, or

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps you'd even solved it. Joe Nicol led an extraordinary life.

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<v Speaker 2>If you knew Joe through his paranormal or cryptozoological, or

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<v Speaker 2>euphological or other mystery investigation categories, you might think of

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<v Speaker 2>him as just that a clever guy who wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out mysteries. But in talking with Joe I learned

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<v Speaker 2>so many more stories about what he got up to

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<v Speaker 2>during his eighty years. I want to share a few

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<v Speaker 2>of those things that maybe I haven't talked about here before.

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<v Speaker 2>So Joe was very politically active, and he was a

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<v Speaker 2>man of deep principles, and he hated the Vietnam War

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<v Speaker 2>when it was going on, and he protested it, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was there in nineteen sixty seven and when Abbi

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<v Speaker 2>Hoffman tried to levitate the Pentagon and cast out demons

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<v Speaker 2>of violence and oppression. And Joe was a poet and

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<v Speaker 2>he had connections with the Beat poets, and he told

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<v Speaker 2>me several times how honored he was to have been

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<v Speaker 2>invited to perform some of his work at a reading

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<v Speaker 2>that included some of the giants of that movement. And

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<v Speaker 2>he hated the suppression of black voters in the Deep South.

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<v Speaker 2>So he marched with Doctor King and he participated in

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<v Speaker 2>dangerous efforts to try to get black voters registered, and

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<v Speaker 2>he faced real dangers and real threats to his life

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<v Speaker 2>while working on that. Eventually facing a draft board, like

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<v Speaker 2>thousands of Americans his age, he fled into Canada, and

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<v Speaker 2>this opened up another chapter in his life, where he

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<v Speaker 2>lived as a political refugee and had to find work

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<v Speaker 2>in various parts of that country. He wrote ad copy

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<v Speaker 2>for the Canadian Sears Catalog, you know, which for younger listeners,

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<v Speaker 2>was a little bit like Amazon dot Com, only instead

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<v Speaker 2>of web pages. It had a huge paper book called

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<v Speaker 2>the Seers Catalog and a winter holiday edition which was

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<v Speaker 2>called the Sea Wish Book. Now, in my life, I

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<v Speaker 2>like to read a lot of weird trivia and strange

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<v Speaker 2>esoteric stories about different locations, and so I just have

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of different bits of information about different parts

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<v Speaker 2>of the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Rattling around in my head.

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<v Speaker 2>And one time I had read a article about life

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<v Speaker 2>in the Yukon and about this eccentric man named Captain

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<v Speaker 2>Dick Stevenson. I think that may have come from a

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<v Speaker 2>rabbit hole when I was reading about the making of

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<v Speaker 2>John Carpenter's movie The Thing. But regardless, the story goes

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<v Speaker 2>that in the Yukon in the nineteen twenty the pair

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<v Speaker 2>of trappers in a remote cabin had to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>the case of frostbite and they chopped off the toe

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<v Speaker 2>of one of the gentlemen whose foot had gotten wet,

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<v Speaker 2>and they put the toe into.

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<v Speaker 1>A bottle of alcohol.

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<v Speaker 2>And decades later, Captain Dick Stevenson apparently found the toe

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<v Speaker 2>preserved in a jar of alcohol in this remote cabin,

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<v Speaker 2>and he brought it back to town and turned it

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<v Speaker 2>into a drinking challenge. Thus began the legendary Yukon sour

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<v Speaker 2>Toe cocktail challenge. There's even a rhyme that goes with it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can drink it fast, you can drink it slow,

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<v Speaker 2>but your lips must touch that gnarly tow now. So

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<v Speaker 2>they're literally drinking a drink of alcohol that has a

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<v Speaker 2>toe in it, so obscure and amusing, and it's one

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<v Speaker 2>of the few stories I know about the Yukon. And

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<v Speaker 2>one day Joe was telling me about being in Canada

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<v Speaker 2>and he told me this story about he and another

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<v Speaker 2>colorful local who caught a grizzly.

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<v Speaker 1>Bear that had been sort of wandering around town.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's a really interesting story in its own right,

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<v Speaker 2>not what I'm gonna try to tell right now. But

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<v Speaker 2>while he was talking about the Yukon, I said, Joe,

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<v Speaker 2>have you ever heard of this Yukon ritual of drinking

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<v Speaker 2>the toe? And for one of the first time, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>one of the only times, Joe was completely shocked that

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<v Speaker 2>I had sprung something on him that I knew something

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<v Speaker 2>that was really obscure that he also knew.

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<v Speaker 1>And he said, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>About the Sauerto cocktail And I was like, yeah, have

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<v Speaker 2>you heard of it? And he said, heard about it?

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<v Speaker 2>I created the certificates that Captain Dick would give out

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<v Speaker 2>to people who passed through the ritual. And then he

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<v Speaker 2>proceeded to tell me how that he had moved to

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<v Speaker 2>the Yukon during his Canadian exile and he became friends

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<v Speaker 2>with Captain Dick and as a kid, Joe had made

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<v Speaker 2>his living by doing hand painted signs around his small

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<v Speaker 2>Kentucky town.

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<v Speaker 1>So he painted signs for all kinds.

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<v Speaker 2>Of businesses and did all kinds of advertising work.

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<v Speaker 1>In that space.

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<v Speaker 2>And now in Canada he was up there applying his trade,

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<v Speaker 2>doing the same kind of work, calligraphy, article writing, signs

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<v Speaker 2>for windows, that sort of thing. And then this opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>to make certificates for the Sauerto Cocktail came up, and

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<v Speaker 2>so Joe hand lettered them. It's an interesting, if dubious

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<v Speaker 2>feet But I'm telling you this because Joe Nichol was

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<v Speaker 2>not a simple person. He was a bigger than life

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<v Speaker 2>character who, if you were thinking of this in role

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<v Speaker 2>playing games terms, was definitely a multi class character, and

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<v Speaker 2>you kind of have to wonder how many development points

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<v Speaker 2>he had. But I mean, if you look at it

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<v Speaker 2>in another way, he used his experiences to get experienced points.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, Joe didn't shy away from new adventures.

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<v Speaker 1>That's who he was.

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<v Speaker 2>If he had a chance to try something new, he

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<v Speaker 2>would do it. Joe was also extraordinarily generous. He supported

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<v Speaker 2>causes that he believed in with cash and with time,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know I've probably told some version of the

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<v Speaker 2>story before. But I wanted to start a publishing company,

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<v Speaker 2>which I did, Monster House LLC. But I'm slow and

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<v Speaker 2>methodical about this sort of thing. So I set up

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<v Speaker 2>the company name, and then I started taking classes on

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<v Speaker 2>how to digitally published books and audiobook. I read articles,

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<v Speaker 2>I joined forums, I read all this material, but I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't ready to actually start yet. I didn't have my

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<v Speaker 2>own manuscript or anyone else's, and I wasn't ready to

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<v Speaker 2>call for submissions or anything. But I and I hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>even told anybody what I was up to, because I

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<v Speaker 2>don't like to tell my plans when they're that nebulous,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's again and sometimes it takes me years to

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<v Speaker 2>get any of my projects done. But then one day,

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<v Speaker 2>not too long after I'd gotten all this stuff set up,

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<v Speaker 2>I got a phone call from Joe and he asked me,

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<v Speaker 2>out of the blue, if i'd be interested in publishing

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<v Speaker 2>his latest book. And I said, well, Joe, who told

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<v Speaker 2>you I was starting a publishing company, And he said nobody.

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<v Speaker 2>I just thought this book's about monsters, it's write up

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<v Speaker 2>your listener's alley. And so if I gave you the

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<v Speaker 2>book and let you publish it. It could help support

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<v Speaker 2>the show, and that's what he did, and that's what

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<v Speaker 2>I did. And that book became The Science of Monsters,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the first publication to come out through Monster House,

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<v Speaker 2>which was released late last year. And sadly, it turns

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<v Speaker 2>out that that volume will be the last book that

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<v Speaker 2>Joe would publish during his life. He was working on

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<v Speaker 2>two more volumes and I don't know if those are

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<v Speaker 2>going to be completed or not. We'll have to wait

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<v Speaker 2>and see. I have not had a chance to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to his typist. Joe wrote Longhand and had someone type

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<v Speaker 2>up his work, and she and I haven't been able

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<v Speaker 2>to talk yet about where he was at. And honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>it's right this minute. I'm just sad that he's gone.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not that worried about the projects, but I just yeah, anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll see. I'm writing this to say goodbye to a friend,

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<v Speaker 2>a mentor, a guide, a supporter, a caring person who

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<v Speaker 2>didn't suffer fools, but somehow put.

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<v Speaker 1>Up with me.

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<v Speaker 2>I think now, especially the world needs Joe's voice.

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<v Speaker 1>I need his voice. And we talked on Monday.

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<v Speaker 2>He was not doing well at all and I was

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<v Speaker 2>deeply worried about him, and the next day he died.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm so sorry that I couldn't have been there

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<v Speaker 2>for him, and I'm sorry that I won't be able

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<v Speaker 2>to go to whatever memorial service he has, and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't even know what those arrangements are going to be.

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<v Speaker 2>But like a lot of people his age, he outlived

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<v Speaker 2>most of his own friends and heroes.

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<v Speaker 1>When some people passed.

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<v Speaker 2>They leave a hole in the world shape like their

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<v Speaker 2>unique place in the world. And when Joe died, he

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<v Speaker 2>left a thousand holes because he had a thousand personas.

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<v Speaker 2>He was not a religious person, and you might call

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<v Speaker 2>him an atheist, but he preferred to say that he

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<v Speaker 2>was a secular humanist. What's that people would ask him.

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<v Speaker 2>He was like, Oh, that's just an atheist with a heart.

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<v Speaker 2>He loved saying that, And Joe had a big heart.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's going to take me a while to get

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<v Speaker 2>over his loss. Even knowing that he was nearing the end,

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<v Speaker 2>he just never stopped trying to solve mysteries or to

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<v Speaker 2>make a difference in this world. He didn't believe in ghosts,

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't believe in fairies or aliens, or monsters or

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<v Speaker 2>dark conspiracies or ultra dimension. But he believed in you,

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<v Speaker 2>he believed in me, he believed in his fellow travelers

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<v Speaker 2>on Spaceship Earth. Joe believed that good people who fight

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<v Speaker 2>for a good cause can win out over evil, even

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<v Speaker 2>if sometimes it requires patience, or sometimes it even requires

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<v Speaker 2>the occasional retreat. Joe Nickel believed in humanity. Well, I

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<v Speaker 2>can't turn this into a biography. That's too big of

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<v Speaker 2>a task. Joe's life is too big and expansive for

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<v Speaker 2>me to go over in the length of a normal

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<v Speaker 2>Monstra Talk episode or one hundred and maybe I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>even the right person for that job.

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<v Speaker 1>But check out the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Notes because I'll put some links to Joe's many escapades,

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<v Speaker 2>and also a link to support the Buffalo Museum of Science.

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<v Speaker 2>You see, Joe recently passes his big collection of research

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<v Speaker 2>and mementos from decades of investigation to the Museum for

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<v Speaker 2>curation and caretaking. So Joe Nichols's collection of work will

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<v Speaker 2>not be lost. Obviously, he's got his published books, but

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<v Speaker 2>also so much memorabilia, personal writings, and correspondence. All these

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<v Speaker 2>materials are now safely in the hands of the Buffalo

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<v Speaker 2>Museum of science in the hands of curators and archivists,

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<v Speaker 2>and if you want to remember Joe, a donation to

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<v Speaker 2>that institute would surely be one way to keep his

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<v Speaker 2>work preserved. And you can buy his many books online.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm sure Joe.

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<v Speaker 2>Wouldn't mind me reminding you that the science of monsters

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<v Speaker 2>in particular also helps Monster Talk. But it's ghoulish, in

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<v Speaker 2>my opinion, to try and cash in when someone passes.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think Joe really wanted Monster Talk to succeed.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why he gave us that opportunity, and I'm extraordinarily

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<v Speaker 2>proud that he trusted me with that project. I appreciate

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<v Speaker 2>the many wishes of condolences that people have sent to

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<v Speaker 2>me through social media. And I unfortunately don't know Joe's

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<v Speaker 2>extended family. I do know, which I find this is

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<v Speaker 2>kind of funny that when I asked him about who

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<v Speaker 2>was looking after him, he said, well, I do have

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<v Speaker 2>one relative who keeps a close eye on me, And

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<v Speaker 2>he said.

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<v Speaker 1>That's my aunt.

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<v Speaker 2>She's one hundred and four, but she checks on me

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<v Speaker 2>every week. And I don't know who's going to pass

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<v Speaker 2>the bad news on to her, but I hope they

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<v Speaker 2>do it gently and Joe wouldn't want us grieving his

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<v Speaker 2>passing so much as he would want us to follow

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<v Speaker 2>his example and to try to use logic and reason

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<v Speaker 2>and evidence based thinking to constructively engage with those who

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<v Speaker 2>have questions about this world. He blazed a path and

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<v Speaker 2>left a trail worth following, and I only regret that

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day he won't be there

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<v Speaker 2>anymore to share his stories. I'll already miss him a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll continue to hold on to the wooden Nichols he

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<v Speaker 2>used to give out. They are a final testament to

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<v Speaker 2>how strongly.

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<v Speaker 1>He believed he could make this world change more obstrutal

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<v Speaker 1>this has been a Monster House presentation