WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:22.760 Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host. Cliff Dunning shared 2 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:28.559 all the quaintins be. 3 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:33.039 Forgot and thever bro to my. 4 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:50.439 Should the quatins be for good? Max for. 5 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:56.399 Side, my dear. 6 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:09.439 For so another year comes to the end. 7 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:17.280 We're wishing twenty twenty four a goodbye. Welcoming in twenty 8 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:22.040 twenty five. Twenty twenty four was good. It was a 9 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:27.079 good year for many of us. Like every year, it 10 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.319 has its high points in its low points. But I'd 11 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:33.159 say for Destiny and for Earth Ancients as a whole, 12 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:37.959 and for me, Cliff Downing, your host of Destiny and 13 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.680 of Earth Ancients, it. 14 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:40.319 Was a good year. 15 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:46.439 And a lot of great events happened, a lot of discoveries, 16 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:50.159 a lot of news. Politically in the United States, some 17 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:52.840 people may have thought it was a train wreck. Others 18 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:59.159 are rejoicing for the return of Donald Trump. I don't know. 19 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:02.159 I am at the point now where I'm like, let's 20 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.159 wait and see rather than giving an opinion. It's like, 21 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:08.840 wait and see, wait and see what happens. But this 22 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:14.319 is not a political podcast, and I've never promoted any politician. 23 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:16.800 As a rule, we just don't do that. 24 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:21.360 So but hey, happy New Year. And I hope you're 25 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:25.520 doing well on this holiday week. I want to mention 26 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:30.240 that today's program is kind of highlights of twenty twenty four. 27 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.439 We're going to pick some of the better programs to discuss, 28 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:39.479 but before I do that, we have some announcements for Destiny. 29 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:43.240 Destiny's been the little sister of Earth Ancients since its 30 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:48.840 inception in twenty twenty one, and the idea behind Destiny 31 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:54.319 was that the Ancients, our ancestors, had a lot of 32 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:59.280 wellness developed as they evolved. And when I say wellness, 33 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:06.680 I'm talking about meditative practices, consciousness raising practices, body exercises 34 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:12.879 that triggered hormonal releases, were benefits like yoga, like taichi, 35 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:20.039 like stretching, and Destiny came out of Earth Ancients. Need 36 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:25.120 to discuss those without making them Earth Ancients topics. So 37 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:29.520 although we cross over and get into a lot of consciousness, 38 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:36.120 a lot of wellness topics, and everything in between, it 39 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:40.800 really is a standalone web podcast, it's a standalone podcast 40 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:45.599 on a lot of levels. And because of that, in 41 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.199 twenty twenty five early I'm hoping in the verse month 42 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.919 or two, we're releasing a website for Destiny. It's all 43 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:59.800 things Destiny. It'll be the podcast itself and a way 44 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:03.280 to listen to the older programs. It'll be a resource 45 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:11.080 of content, products, services, references, consultations that you can go to. 46 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:15.800 And they'll also be a whole section on the books 47 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:19.879 as well as comments, articles and so forth and so on. 48 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:23.879 So it's going to be a full service website that 49 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:27.399 you would never see on the Earth ancients. So rather 50 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:33.040 than letting Destiny kind of follow the back drop, a 51 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:36.920 lot of you have been asking for more material, more resources, 52 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:44.040 more content outside of just the podcast, and so our job, 53 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.879 my team and myself, our job is to present the 54 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:53.560 content in the form of an audio, and we will 55 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:57.199 also have a YouTube channel where you can actually see 56 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:03.720 and hear the that we have each week and get 57 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:08.920 that sense of who they are as well as the audio. Now, 58 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:13.639 the website again, we're going to be launching it probably 59 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:18.879 at the end of January, if not sooner, and giving 60 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:23.120 you a chance to comment on it. And that means 61 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.680 that it's a whole social media aspect as well, which 62 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.879 means it's gonna there's gonna be a Facebook page, there's 63 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:34.160 going to be a probably an X page you formerly Twitter, 64 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.839 and an Instagram page, because there's a lot of information 65 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:44.399 that can be presented in the form of products, in 66 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:48.600 the form of services, and a lot of you don't 67 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.480 have access to this in your in your city or 68 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:56.959 your state. Uh, there's certain certain parts of the country 69 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.959 are more active in the wellness and the personal growth 70 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:05.279 the conscious area than others, and so there should be 71 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:09.519 access to everything that we have on this podcast Destiny. 72 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:13.560 So if you if you don't find it on the website, 73 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:17.639 you'll find it on Instagram, or you'll find it on Facebook, 74 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:21.040 or you'll find it on X and so forth and 75 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:23.360 so on. So we want to make as much available 76 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:29.759 as possible and give you access to whoever's on the program, 77 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.600 and that's you know, it's a big list of individuals. 78 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:36.519 We have a once a week show every Wednesday, and 79 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:38.720 it makes sense to have a website, and so I'm 80 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:42.360 really excited about it. Mark Foster, who's in London, is 81 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:46.720 working on it. We have the we have the basic lookdown, 82 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:51.319 very very easy to navigate and of course resources and 83 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:56.040 that takes a little more time, but the basic platform 84 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:59.160 website will be up i'd say within thirty days and 85 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.759 I'll make the announce when it does go up. So 86 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:06.639 there you go. Twenty twenty five, we are recognizing Destiny 87 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:12.720 as a important part of the First Ancients network. I 88 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.480 always say Destiny is are our little sister, but it's 89 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:19.079 really standalone. I mean, we have the best of the 90 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:24.759 best on many of those programs, including all the topics 91 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:28.839 we touch with. We touch on. So today's program is 92 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:35.759 a taste of wellness, consciousness, paranormal, and we even threw 93 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:39.519 a little bit of artificial intelligence in there, so just 94 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:41.720 kind of sweeten it up. But I want to also 95 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:47.959 mention that twenty twenty four is or was an important 96 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:53.560 contributor to our ability to move beyond the mundane. And 97 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:58.879 the mundane is what we're doing in the physical body, 98 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.879 and the techniques are offered on Destiny should be a 99 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:08.399 consideration of yours. If you are sedentary and you don't 100 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:11.720 get up and move enough, think about yoga, think about 101 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:15.959 taking a basic course. I don't go to a class 102 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:21.240 anywhere after COVID because basically COVID shut all the group 103 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:26.600 participation down because you couldn't really mingle. I continued on 104 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.000 with my yoga practice, and I practice yoga maybe three 105 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:33.120 or four times a week in the morning. If you 106 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:37.559 don't have a stretching program. It is critical to staying well, 107 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:41.840 to stay in mobile. I mean, as you get older, 108 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.759 it's tougher to stretch, it's tougher to bend over. And 109 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:52.279 when you sit half the day, you gain weight and 110 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.679 you're less active and the body is like what are 111 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:57.000 you doing? You got to get up and move. So 112 00:08:57.240 --> 00:09:01.519 I really urge you to think think about yoga. And 113 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:03.759 it doesn't matter how old you are. If you're in 114 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.600 your eighties and nineties and you're not that mobile, you 115 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:09.320 can stretch in your chair. There's stretching exercises where you've 116 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:11.440 been forward, you've been to the left, you've been to 117 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:15.879 the right, you've been back. That can be enough for real, 118 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:21.120 real wellness. And of course if you can stand, if 119 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:27.559 you can walk, going beyond sitting and being immobile is critical. 120 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:30.440 It's really important now. If yoga is not your thing, 121 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:34.960 tai Chi is another excellent exercise. And of course we 122 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:39.799 had recently somebody on the show talking about walking and 123 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:46.799 walking is huge. It is huge. So make twenty twenty five. 124 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:50.759 You know, if you're into the resolutions for the new year, 125 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:56.519 make movement one of those, because it's really going to 126 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:01.240 help you in the long run, stay young, stay active mentally, 127 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:06.919 physically and spiritually, and help you move forward into the 128 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:10.159 new year. So with that being said, our program today 129 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.480 is with a number of different authors. I think it 130 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:18.399 was one, two, three, four, five, six different programs that 131 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:23.360 we took highlights from and they are what I thought 132 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:28.279 a good crossover of highlights. So today's program is Program 133 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.720 Highlights for twenty twenty four and the guests are a 134 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:34.480 variety of people that we've had, mostly authors, but there's 135 00:10:34.480 --> 00:11:15.000 some specialists as well, and Happy New Year. So in 136 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.440 presenting Program Highlights from twenty twenty four, we're looking at 137 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:24.519 impactful interviews that really highlight the human condition. And what 138 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.080 does that mean. Human condition is we're physical beings. That's 139 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:30.440 the number one thing we recognize that most of us 140 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.480 are getting up. We want to make sure we're well. 141 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:36.759 We don't want to be sick, and we are working, 142 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:42.639 we're interacting, we're having relationships, we're having personal and professional 143 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:50.159 success and problems, and so we want to highlight the 144 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:55.720 programs the interviews that bring this all together. So we're 145 00:11:55.720 --> 00:12:02.159 talking physical, we're talking mental, spiritual, and beyond. And so 146 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:11.360 this series of interviews were highlights that bring together everything 147 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:16.600 that we present on destiny from different avenues, be it consciousness. 148 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:22.159 We even have highlights from fasting, which is a big 149 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:28.960 one for me, how to raise your frequency, spiritual experience, breathing, 150 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.799 and so forth. So these are all this is kind 151 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:37.279 of a s mortgageborg of some of the better presentations 152 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:45.320 for the year twenty twenty four. We've had some fantastic 153 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:50.559 guests who are speaking on spirituality religion, how the two intertwine, 154 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:54.639 how a spiritual life may be different than a religious 155 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:59.480 spiritual life, and what's the difference of the two. In 156 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:04.559 this interview, we hear from Jonathan eller B and the 157 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:08.000 information he provides in his book The Seven Gateways to 158 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:14.360 Spiritual Experience. And I was very impressed in this description 159 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:19.000 of what it means to be spiritual, how it integrates 160 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:23.600 with current Western philosophy, as well as what I'm interested in, 161 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:28.159 which is Eastern philosophy, Eastern religion if you want to 162 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.320 call it, religion, and the spiritual practice that separates organized 163 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:42.720 religion and Eastern religion. I think it's a great revelation 164 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:45.200 for you to say this started at this young age, 165 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:53.039 because you have accumulated up until now a lifetime of 166 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:59.000 discovery where you're explaining, and you're exploring, and you're able 167 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.240 to vocalize as a teacher and also as a minister 168 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:08.679 this sacred life. And I'm curious talk a little bit 169 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:13.399 about the different avenues of spirituality. And when I use 170 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.080 the word avenues, we're more than a physical being. You've 171 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.799 described that and we understand that. But is there a 172 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:28.080 guidance through the unseeing side? Is there what they call 173 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:34.600 spiritual helpers angels? Now we talk a lot on this 174 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:38.240 program about the Akashak records, is that something we tap into. 175 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.440 Talk a little a little bit about where this experience 176 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.440 comes from, because it's not just you're tripping over and 177 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:53.279 all of a sudden the sky opens in booming voices. Hello, 178 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:58.440 this is Lord Jesus Christ or whoever. You know. Some 179 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:05.919 people do have that too. But about the array, Yeah. 180 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:07.679 Of avenues. 181 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:14.799 So it's a great question and it reveals an important 182 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:21.000 topic where people immediately begin to get confused about spirituality 183 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.960 and the journey. And I think your question implies two 184 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:27.320 different things. I'm going to try to briefly talk about 185 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:32.000 them both. So the first is what are the vehicles? Like? 186 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:35.480 How do we have these experiences? So I say something 187 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.120 about that briefly, and then the other question is what 188 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:42.080 is the territory, which is what are we experiencing? Like 189 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.399 where does it come from? And the reason why I 190 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:49.840 identify both these things is because unless you're naturally prone 191 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.399 to spiritual experience on the guidance that you're talking about, 192 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:57.000 you're gonna need to get in a vehicle to go. So, 193 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.919 so to use the metaphor, it's like some people can 194 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:05.480 just walk and they travel the territory, they're just there, Yeah, 195 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:07.840 But most of us have to get on a horse 196 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:09.960 or get in a car or a boat or a 197 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.759 plane and then explore the landscape. And I encourage people 198 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:19.519 to think about it like that because in terms of vehicles, 199 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:29.240 I recommend that people consider teachers, practices, philosophies, and experiences. 200 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:35.240 These four things ultimately comprise your spiritual path. If you 201 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.639 want to make a path. Okay, so that's you have 202 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:42.879 some teacher, like an individual or small group of individuals 203 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:48.000 that you learn from practices that would be things like yoga, meditation, 204 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:53.559 a Bible study, sweat lodge, right philosophy, the body of 205 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.559 knowledge that comes out of those teachers and practices, and 206 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.639 then your lived experience can't all just be handed to you. Now, 207 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:04.039 if you don't have a religious tradition or a spiritual tradition, 208 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.200 and they usually have all these tied up in a 209 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.200 bow for you, then I say, for anyone listening to 210 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:11.839 your shelf, you don't know where to begin, or you 211 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.160 just kind of do this part of me, You just 212 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:17.480 do this shit on your own. You really need to 213 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.480 pick at least one of these three teacher practice philosophy 214 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.839 and commit to it for a period of time, or 215 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.440 you're never gonna get up the mountain. Right if you 216 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.440 don't pick a teacher and stick with them, pick a 217 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:32.599 practice and stick with it, pick a philosophy and stick 218 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.839 with it. It would kind of be like you go to 219 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:38.720 a parking lot of a beautiful hike that leads up 220 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:42.640 the summit of a low mountain, and there's several trails 221 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.079 to get to the top, and you walk up one, 222 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:47.640 and then twenty minutes later you're like, I like this trail, 223 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.559 I'm going back to the parking lot. I'm gonna check 224 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:51.279 the map and pick a different one, and then you 225 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:53.039 go ten minutes up the next one you're like, that's 226 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:55.079 too steep, and then you go back down and the 227 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.599 day's over. And you've gone nowhere. You spend a lot 228 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.400 of time in the parking lot. So that's most people 229 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:05.920 on the spiritual journey today. But there is something up. 230 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:08.559 So we've just talked about the vehicles, but then there's 231 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:12.400 the territory. And to the other side of your question, 232 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:17.000 I absolutely believe, for lack of a better word, there's 233 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:21.359 something out there that is not us. It is not psychological, 234 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:25.599 it is not a projection, it is not neurological. Although 235 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.279 when we interact with this other dimension or these other 236 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:37.480 dimensions of our reality, it registers neurologically. It impacts us psychologically, 237 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:41.359 and we see in the modern medical and scientific community 238 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.119 a lot of struggle trying to understand which is the 239 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.359 tale and which is the dog. And interesting if you 240 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:53.359 look at the work, for example, of Andrew Neuberg, acclaimed neuroscientist. 241 00:18:54.839 --> 00:19:02.440 Even he you know, rigorous education, high Ivy League associations, 242 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:07.720 even he is quick to say, no, we cannot prove 243 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:11.559 that this is all generated in the brain. When we 244 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:16.839 measure the brain. When someone is seeing a spirit, it 245 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:22.480 actually registers the same way as when someone sees their 246 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:27.119 friend arrive or a dog walk by. It doesn't look 247 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.680 like we're creating this the imagination center is not engaged. 248 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:35.680 Frontal lobes shutdown. It is like literally the same as 249 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:40.240 meeting a person. So, yes, there is another dimension out there, 250 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:42.559 and we can be guided by it. We should be 251 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.440 guided by it. It must inform our spiritual journey or 252 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:49.480 otherwise we are doing nothing other than living in relationship 253 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:51.160 to humans and human teachings. 254 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:52.440 And I think that. 255 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:55.759 Is a very are to me, but a very narrow 256 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:01.119 spiritual life, a very shallow kind of experience of what's possible. 257 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.799 Talk briefly about the spiritual life as it compares to 258 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.640 a religious life. Somebody who is adherent to the Bible, 259 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:18.000 who follows the guidance of their minister, their rabbi, their priest, 260 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:25.759 and somebody else who may not consider a religious life 261 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.319 a spiritual life. What's the difference. 262 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:34.240 So a popular answer to this question today, and I'll 263 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:37.440 try to be brief, but a popular answer is cynical, 264 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:42.400 and it is to say, you know, religious people are 265 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.000 trying to teach you how to live, and spiritual people 266 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.400 are people who are living. You know, stuff like that 267 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:51.799 idea that if you're religious, you're somehow missing the boat. 268 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.400 Religious people talk about hell and spiritual people have been 269 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:57.400 through it, you know, this kind of thing. I think 270 00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:59.680 that's a bunch of garbage. I think there's all kinds 271 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.279 of people that are quote spiritual, that are full of 272 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.400 it and are self deceiving and egocentric and making shit 273 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.000 up as they go. And I think there's all kinds 274 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.759 of religious people that are profoundly connected and incredibly wise 275 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:16.200 and loving and the opposite, right, all kinds of horrific. 276 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:18.920 I mean, I don't even know if I can talk 277 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.599 about this on your show. I don't want to be 278 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:24.400 too controversial. I mean, Donald Trump is coming out with 279 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.480 a Bible that he's endorsing because it's got, you know, 280 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.599 documents in it that support his agenda. I mean, give 281 00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:33.880 me a break. Like, there's all kinds of people that 282 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.720 manipulate and waste the power of religion. Of course, people 283 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.839 have abused religion forever, and the same is true of spirituality. 284 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.680 And yes, spirituality is also powerful. It's essential to healing. 285 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.839 It's a part of who we are. So my answer 286 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:53.680 to your question is that it has to do with 287 00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:59.400 the placement of spiritual experience. I think in the religious life, 288 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.279 what we see is that the teachers, the practices, and 289 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:09.640 the philosophies. As I talked about earlier, they come first, 290 00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:12.960 and if you have an experience, well good for you. 291 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.960 We hope you feel something in church. We hope you 292 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.559 feel something in synagogue. We hope you feel something at 293 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:22.839 the mosque. Now, don't try to run the place. Don't 294 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.200 go telling everyone about it. You're not in charge, right. 295 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:29.640 We got the teachers, we got the teaching, we got 296 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:35.480 the practices, and hopefully you'll feel something in there. In spirituality, 297 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:40.079 I believe it's flipped, so we are driven by experience, 298 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:45.000 we're driven by the personal call. Typically people who say 299 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.279 they live a spiritual life are referring to something that 300 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:53.720 is intimate, that is personal, that is active and meaningful, 301 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:57.279 and it may have expression in a religious community and 302 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:02.200 it may not. But whether a person is religious or 303 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:07.440 not spiritual as their focus or not, I think what 304 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:13.279 drives the difference is the personal journey, the idea that 305 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:17.440 the religion just serves the journey, versus the religious life 306 00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:20.599 where the religion is the journey. And that's of course 307 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.839 where it gets all messed up. 308 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.119 Yeah, and it's funny too. When I was younger, I 309 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:27.960 started meditating when I was eighteen. 310 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:29.480 That's awesome. 311 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.640 It was trained Maharishi mesh Yogi, the transcendental meditation phenomenon. 312 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:34.279 Wow. 313 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:41.519 Yeah. But my father was very devout and when I 314 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.599 explained it to him, he was very angry with me. 315 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:50.200 And he was a teacher, and what he had understood 316 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:55.799 is that when you meditate, you enhanced the body, mind 317 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.759 and spirit. But also since that time, they've come out 318 00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.279 with scientific studies that the two brains left and right 319 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:10.880 unify themselves. It's extremely helpful healing, and there's other benefits 320 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.640 that are coming up to But for me and for 321 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:21.119 many others, it's the experience of opening to the possibilities. 322 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:26.000 And for some reason, this is a challenge even today 323 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:31.759 for Orthodoxy and religious Orthodoxy because in some ways I 324 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:37.480 think that they feel that you are being empowered to 325 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:42.119 a degree where you're a god like and that's blasphemy. 326 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:46.000 So as a minister, although it's in your inner faith, 327 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:52.920 and I don't know that entailed, but talk a little 328 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:58.480 bit about using these Eastern philosophies that are ancient, tens 329 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:04.599 of thousands of years old, and how they open us 330 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:09.559 and should be used today to experience what you call 331 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.400 the sacred. 332 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.119 Yes, all right, I'm making that's a lot, Jonathan, I 333 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:15.480 got it. 334 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:15.960 I got it. 335 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:16.920 I got so good. 336 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:19.079 I'm looking at your face like, okay, dude, what are 337 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.359 you talking about now? 338 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:23.680 No, I love this. And once again I'm going to 339 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.400 start by answering a question that's implied in your question, 340 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:28.759 So if you don't mind, start there, and then i'll 341 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.599 get into the Eastern piece. The first thing that you 342 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:37.839 addressed is that there's this and I would call it weird, right, 343 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:42.559 there's this weird tendency in religious communities to be fearful 344 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:47.839 of spiritual experience. They like it if it's contained, they 345 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.759 like it if it serves their mission, but they're terrified 346 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.880 if it challenges them. And I think there's a few 347 00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.359 basic things going on that I love to name for 348 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:01.400 people so they can understand what they see. The first 349 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:05.920 is a phenom a sociological phenomena through you know, anthropology 350 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.079 and sociology we've studied and we know happens all over 351 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:12.119 the world and has happened throughout time, which is when 352 00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:16.519 a new movement emerges, such as a spiritual movement. Let's 353 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:22.200 just use Christianity as an example. It is profoundly common, 354 00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:27.599 like almost universal, not universal, but it's pretty common for 355 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:34.839 the human animal to vilify or demonize whatever movement we 356 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:39.119 are moving away from. So it's not enough to say 357 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:42.960 we found the gospel. There's an incredible teacher on the 358 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:47.000 planet named Jesus, or or the spirit of Jesus came back, 359 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:50.279 and we're living a new way. I mean, that's miraculous 360 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:52.799 to me. I think that's wonderful. I have no problem 361 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.039 with that. But see what humans do with it is then, 362 00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.920 and we do this with cars and music and politics. Then, 363 00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.079 instead of being okay with just saying this is what 364 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.799 I believe, now, we make what I used to believe, 365 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:10.279 or what's around me, or what my neighbors do, we 366 00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:16.079 make that bad or dangerous. Don't talk to them, don't 367 00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:21.759 be near them, They're gonna damn you forever. Right. That 368 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.400 sets the stage for all kinds of human atrocities. I'll 369 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:29.079 just leave it at that. The next dimension of why 370 00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:32.000 I think we see this phenomena of why the religious 371 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.680 are fearful of change or outside influence or spiritual experience, 372 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:43.640 is another human frailty, which is control an egoism, which 373 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:48.000 is everywhere again. Car dealers are like that, chefs are 374 00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.039 like that, parents are like that, And that is simply 375 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:53.640 to say we want to keep people in our seats 376 00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.039 and we don't want them going to other seats. We 377 00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:58.160 want people to be a part of our crew, not 378 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:00.480 another crew. But here's the last thing, and I think 379 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.119 you touched on it. It sets the stage for talking 380 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:08.519 about Eastern tradition. I think that in recent generations we've 381 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:16.880 seen a political co opting of this consciousness, which is 382 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:21.480 to say that we want the minds of people. And 383 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:24.480 I don't know that it's explicit. I don't believe that 384 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.039 this is a conspiracy. Personally, I think it's happened unconsciously. 385 00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:34.119 But we like people complacent, we like people predictable. We 386 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:38.079 like to focus on normalization and standards. We don't want 387 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:42.400 to be running people through schools where you know, and 388 00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:46.319 it's starting to happen anyway. We don't want to run 389 00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:50.160 schools where diversity is celebrated and where kids are tripping 390 00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:54.119 out and where people understand that reality is negotiable. What 391 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:55.880 kind of a society would that be? 392 00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:56.240 Right? 393 00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:00.559 It appears that it might be impossible to run a 394 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:05.000 country or an economy if there isn't a predictable paradigm 395 00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:10.200 or a predictive perceptive reality. In other words, idea of 396 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:14.119 reality that we all agree on. But see, the problem 397 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:18.359 is we don't all agree on reality, and moving to 398 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:22.759 your next point or to your main question. We are 399 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:25.839 influenced by cultures from all over the world and they 400 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:29.119 show us again and again that reality is different for 401 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:34.000