Speaker 1: Welcome to this edition of The High Strangers Factor, copyrighted
on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. I am Steve Ward
along with Susie bass Steele Andie Mercer is unable to
be with us tonight. The High Strangers Factor was created
by Steve Ward and Addie Mercer a little over half
a decade ago, and we have always pursued the mysteries
of the unknown with interesting guests. Well, Susy, I guess
it's just you and me tonight. So I'd like to
tell people that we are like beacons on a fog
shrouded night. I think I stole that from.
Speaker 2: Larry King, but that's very cinematic. I like the imagery
of that.
Speaker 1: So please remind people who you are and how they
can find out about you and your work.
Speaker 2: So I am sometimes called the Pucklogy Whisperer. You can
find me on YouTube under that, and I deal mostly
with puckologies, the little people in the Bridgewater Triangle. It
does take right now a blood sacrifice to summon me.
But if you I do still take Puckwogy sightings. You
can go to Puckwoges dot blogspot dot com and use
the contact form there. If you have one for me?
Speaker 1: Have you gotten anything recently? Any reports?
Speaker 2: Now in the last few months. I got a pretty
decent one that I'm actually hoping to run past our
guest tonight and get his take on it, because there
was some interesting things that went along with that one.
Speaker 1: Oh, very good. Well, let's introduce our guest. Doctor Simeon
Hine is the author of Black Swan Ghosts. A sociologist
encounters witnesses to unidentified aerial craft, their occupants, and other
elements of the multiverse. This book, now in its second edition,
is filled with eighteen original witness cases from those brave
enough to come forward and tell us what they've seen,
including former NASA, former government intelligence and aerospace workers, retired
Air Force pilots, and many others. He also wrote Opening Minds,
A Journey of Extraordinary Encounters, Crop circles, and Planetary Intelligence,
over twenty years ago. His most recent book is Dark Matter, Monsters, Cryptids, Ball, Lightning,
and the Science of Secret life Forms. This book examines
the science and witness accounts behind mysterious cryptid encounters and
voting Bigfoot. Why are these creatures often associated with orbs,
sudden temperature changes, and electronic interference Sime and welcome to
the show. Welcome to the High Strangers Factor.
Speaker 3: Thanks Steven Susie, thanks for having me here today.
Speaker 1: Well, heck, you know, I don't even know where to begin.
I was it's been a little while since I've read
Dark Matter Monsters. It needs another reading or two because
it's for me. It's it's pretty, it's very revolutionary. I mean,
your your ideas, you're just can you got kind of
summarize a little bit for people that are not familiar
with that book. What you know how you compare the
phenomena of cold fusion and and paranormal phenomena.
Speaker 3: Oh well thanks, uh yeah, that it was a very
challenging book to write. I got the idea from doing
a long term investigation into what's called cold fusion. It
has other names, low energy, nuclear reaction, current energy transformations.
I got involved with the big foot side of it
from my remote viewing students in Colorado. I've been teaching
remote viewing in Colorado since nineteen ninety seven. I first
learned it in ninety six and the Colorado Natives would
tell me their Bigfoot encounters. And this is over a
couple decades, and you know, I'm as thick as anyone else,
so it didn't really sink in.
Speaker 2: Silence your phones please, Yes, how unprofessional, Steve.
Speaker 1: No kidding. And what stunby is There's a name on
here I've never seen before.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of small. That's typical. Maybe it's indrid
cold or something like this.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, somebody just just wished me a happy
indrid cold day today.
Speaker 3: Oh, there you go, there you go. So so I
you know, I heard about Bigfoot not I had seen
the Patterson Gimblin film in the seventies as part of
a preview to a movie that I went to as
a teenager. So I was aware of the Bigfoot idea,
but growing up in New York in the East Coast,
it wasn't something that I ever heard anyone ever talk about.
Not once. Can I remember anyone ever talking about anything
even related to these topics. So when I went out
west for graduate school, and I mean Grover Krantz was
just upstairs for me at WSU where I went got
my PhD, Pullman Washington, who was one of the main
academics to first start studying bigfoot. I didn't know him,
but I mean it was sort of around. The topic
was around, but I guess for me it was encountering
people who had had encounters and then you know, like
a lot of curious people. I just went to some
conferences and I talked to people at those conferences, and
I was really astounded Steve to hear of these electromagnetic
effects being around Bigfoot, which for me were very reminiscent
of what I had seen studying crop circles in the UK.
The remote viewing subject led me to crop circles just
because that's the type of target people would occasionally want
to do. People like to use RB to investigate the unknown.
So I went on some crop circle tours and then
kept getting involved in the topic, leading tours myself there
for a number of years until very recently. And so
I had seen these were electromagnetic effects, and I sought
around Bigfoot witnesses, and the lecturers at these conferences talked
about the same thing and more. They talked about transparencies,
sparkly lights, or they talked about strange, even strange kind
of pique effects objects moving around in the presence of
these creatures inside their vehicles, and this really hooked me
into the whole Bigfoot encryptied topic was just my experience
in the crop circle scene. Batteries and cameras fail. So
I knew that vortex type circular patterns, even in wheat,
could have these nonordinary electromagnetic effects, but to hear it
happening around what were allegedly biological entities really through my
mind for a loop. And I've been really you know,
it's just kind of a curious person studying it ever since.
And that's was sort of the genesis of dark matter monsters.
Was what do we see around bigfoot cryptid encounters that
we see around other paranormal encounters, around UFL encounters. You
mentioned my book Black Swan Goes. Is there some sort
of underlying reality that informs all of these topics that
we've never really talked about? And I thought, I can
see some connections here, and that became the basis of
dark matter monsters.
Speaker 1: I know that initially, UH, cold fusion was very controversial,
and the people that were discovering it were laughed at
and said that they were faking it and making it up.
Uh is it pretty much accepted?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: Where does the where does this line now cold fusion
in the realm of science? And and the acceptance.
Speaker 3: No, it's a good question, Steve, and yeah. They Fleischmann
and Ponds, the two researchers at the University of Utah,
were really pilloried by the academic community. Their university wanted
them to hold a press conference so they could the
university could get the patent rights to the process. Fleischmann
and Ponds didn't want to do this. As you know,
in academia, the normal route is to go through a
peer reviewed published paper, and the university pushed them to
hold a press conference, which other people found kind of,
you know, a little on the garish side. Normally, you
don't hold press conferences in science unless you're at the
very end of the research and you can finally announce something.
So they received a lot of hostility from the research community,
which I don't think was very well deserved. They didn't
call it cold fusion. Other people called it cold fusion.
It's not really cold fusion. We don't have neutrons fusing
at room temperature. And this is the problem intellectually a
lot of physicists and electrochemists had with the process. Nonetheless,
it is a real process. There is something going on there.
It's been reproduced thousands of times by different labs around
the world. It has a newer name called low energy
nuclear reaction, and there's another name coherent energy transformation, since
it seems to have something to do with coherent matter,
something akin analogis to a laser like that, but with
atoms of material. And I think, based on our own
Department of Energies interest in the subject, particularly a company
called Proton twenty one Labs from Kiev, Ukraine, which I'm
told that they actually absorbed into the DOE program, that
this is an established process that does really work. We've
had many other researchers, Ken Schulers, who worked with hal
put Off in the remote Viewing program, also in ASAP,
the government a UFO program that went till about twenty
eleven I believe twenty twelve, later replaced by a TIP.
There have been a number of researchers Takiyaki Matsumoto who've
learned about recently, who did a lot of really detailed
experimental analysis of the process. It is a real process.
It creates transmutation, new elements and steve. It creates a
lot of effects that in my mind are seen around
Bigfoot crypted encounters, which is why I think there is
a connection there and other states of matter, hence the
connection to dark matter. But I have to add one
element here, which is important. The government often encourages us
to laugh at topics that the government doesn't want to
be known more widely by the public because it's part
of classified special access programs. So there's a second component
here we need to look at. Is if it is
something that doesn't really have much science behind it, why
has DOE invested a lot of resources into what we
call cold fusion. Google attempted to replicate it recently for
I think for a costum by fourteen million dollars, but
they didn't quite do it the way other people have
replicated it. They didn't get the same results. So it's
still a controversial subject. But I think if you take
the time to look at the research and the research
tradition in this area, going back to Fleischmann Pondsen even earlier,
and looking at Russian Soviet research, you're getting pretty much
the same type of effect every time. At one of
the conferences, I heard from a researcher from Italy, Vittorio Violante,
from EENEA, the top Energy research government lab in Italy,
and he told us point blank they had reproduced cold
fusion numerous times. They hadn't quite got it to the
point where it was a sustainable reaction that could be
put into technology that would generate unlimited energy. But they
had seen the excess heat. They were convinced it's real.
It's just a very challenging reaction to get going. It's
more akin like a musical symphony, where all the notes
have to be in tune, and if something's out of tune,
the reaction will stop. That's my way of thinking of it.
And so, just like any early technology or scientific discovery,
it's going to get a lot or ridicule because people
who are already established, like in hot fusion, the hot fusion,
tokmac reactors, cern big government funded projects to the tune
of billions of dollars. They don't want any competitor coming
along that can do this on a tabletop for a
few hundred bucks. Right. So, in my mind, just as
a sociologist, there are multiple reasons why other scientists ridicule it,
and it has nothing to do with the veracity of
the process. It has to do with people protecting their turf.
You had this happened to Michael Faraday and James Kirk
Maxwell too, by the way, with the invention of electromagnetism.
Their opponents at the time, and we were just talking
about this a few minutes to go suzzy about being
interviews and who's interviewing you? And so their opponents at
the time were the Newtonians back in the eighteen hundreds
who didn't want to accept the idea of fields. They
were into direct interactions the way Newton thought of it, reaction,
force and reaction like a complementary process. The Newtonian laws
of physics that describe how particles interact and physical things
interact without fields, just through some sort of gravitational interaction.
But the electromagnetic view of the world helped create radio,
It created television, electronics, the internet, iPhones, other types of phones.
I mean, it's everywhere in our lives now. But the
people that could have accepted it at the time were
hostile to it. So we shouldn't take the hostility of
other researchers to cult fusion is any indication of whether
the results are real or not. Similarly, with these types
of topics that we like to talk about here, bigfoot cryptids,
UFO is paranormal. People have their own turf established and guys,
I've seen this happen in our own subject area. People
kind of claked take a claim on a certain explanation,
and they will be very hostile to other researchers that
you would say, Hey, you guys are in the same field.
How come you know nobody wants to share their turf.
And it's no different between science and people that study
weird science, Like I like to study fringe science because
the fringe science today of today becomes the science factor tomorrow. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know Matsumoto has been pretty controversial and he's been
met with some opposition, but I found it interesting in
Dark Matter Monsters, you talk about the micro black holes
in the microball.
Speaker 3: Lightning right right.
Speaker 2: In the Bridgewater triangle you see. I don't know if
you would you would want to call it ball lightning.
But we have orbs a lot, and people always like
to call them swamp gas. I have seen swamp gas,
and I have seen one of these orbs. We call
them Taypewonka's here. One is a ball of energy and
it's distinctly different. And that part of the book reminded
me very much of my experience and other experiences that
I've heard about. But another thing that happens there, and
I think it was Ken Shoulders that talked about this,
there is this large like shadow figure, darker than than blackness.
He's described as it's always seen with those those balls
of lights. So can you can you speak a little
bit more about the microball lightning and those types of theories.
Speaker 3: No, excellent question, Sudie. I mean you're really capturing the
heart of what the argument is here, which is that
these phenomena of orbs ball lightning, microball lightning, hes dollin lights,
lights that are seen over paranormal hotspots, bradshar Ranch, Marley Ranch,
Skinwalker Ranch. People have looked into this. Highly qualified physicists
have looked into this. And I'm mentioning the work of
like David Freiberger of Stanford Linear Accelerator Center DOE funded,
and he calls them mobile luminous objects, and he says
they are all part of the same family of objects.
There may be variations, and it doesn't exclude the idea
that there's some intentionality or consciousness that seems to be
associated with some of these objects. The way they move around.
They really seem intelligent, but the physical explanation of how
they exist seems to come down to some sort of
variation of Maxwell's equations that our modern science hasn't looked
at very much, because we're used to basically electric electric
currents with some magnetic charge, and these are more magnetic
entities with some electric components, so they're like magneto electric.
That's just one explanation. Freiberger called the basis of all
these objects vortons, like a vortex mixed with a magnetic element.
But you're absolutely right. Takiyaki Matsumoto believed that's what he saw,
and he was an experimental physicist, so he had these
photo emulsions. He did tons of underwater spark discharges and
recorded these little glowing things moving along the wires, which
he believed was the basis of what at the time
was called ColdFusion. Ken Shoulders, like you're mentioning, also did research.
He did it more with pulse discharged devices. He was
a micro electronics specialist. He believed he was also looking
at micro ball lightning, and you're right, he did shoulders.
And I just did a video of this for my
YouTube channel that I uploaded yesterday or Friday, and he
argued that this created a dark world, that there are
dark versions of these orbs and ball lightning that you
won't see but could be in the space you're in.
And Shoulders went as far as to suggest that their
life forms based on this dark ball lightning, hence one
of the connections to dark matter. It's not the only
way to get to dark matter. There's also these atomic
processes with relevantutrinos and so forth a type of dark matter.
But Ken Shoulders extrapolated on what he saw. And this
is someone that worked for ARPA. He worked for SRI.
He worked on allegedly some classified programs to create micro
electronics for government systems that are now in all of
our phones the way electronics micro electronics is put together
on a circuit board. He was the one who imagined
that this led to other types of life forms that
are in the same space around us, but slightly decoupled
from us. So if you do see them, if they
do make their way into our reality, SUSI, they're going
to look a bit weird. They could look dark, transparent
because they changed the speed of light through permittivity. Permittivity
is going lower with these objects micro ball lightning to
ball lightning. Lower permittivity leads to a blue shifting, so
they might look bluish and they might look blurry. So
there's a range of characteristics that when I looked at
it again, Steve, going back to your question, I said,
this sounds like paranormal phenomena at least it's things that
I've experienced taking pictures and crops circles, having them come
out blurry, blurry, blurry, like what is this crop circle
doing to my freaking camera and other people's cameras. And
then you often hear this as an accusation against researchers
who take pictures of Bigfoot or have seen Bigfoot and
give us very detailed descriptions. There pictures come out blurry looking,
or they say the creature looked blurry or was transparent
in banded sections. And then how many ghost photos have
we seen that look blurry? And then Steve, I'm reading
the researcher of some of these Russian cold fusion researchers
I'm thinking of I am Shock paranov as one of
them who created these kind of ball lightnings using a
Mobius strip. It was a very ingenious way of slamming
electrons together with a mobia strip, like you know, the
the esher thing where it flips over and it's like
this infinite loop you can build electronically. And he said
they found a blue mist being emitted from their cold
fusion reactors and their photos came out blurry, and he
photographed these dark, blotchy spots which looked to me like
the types of things that people have seen. You're familiar
with these witnesses who have seen these dark orbs, and
they talked about it at Skinwalker Ranch James Lukaski Skinwalker's
at the Pentagon. I even asked Jay Stratton about this
once he was at a conference and I just said, Jay,
are you talking about black ball lightning? Remember these orbs
that frightened them or whatever that dark thing was on
the path that you know, they did want to sleep
with the lights on after seeing this thing. It invoked
a fear response right as they got closer back, as
they backed off, the fear feeling went away. Sounds electromagnetic,
doesn't it, uh? And he said, well, it could be,
or maybe that's just the way your brain's interpreting it.
We don't really know what it is. But these are
kind of connections, guys that I think you can make
between these subjects. Now, I'm not saying I'm inherently right.
I could be wrong. There could be another explanation for
all of this, but it just seems based on my
experience in the time I've been on Earth, of all
the subjects I've been exposed to, including as a kid
building electronic kits from Radio Shack and heath get when
I was like, you know, ten ten years old, just
for fun, there's too many connections here to ignore the
sudden temperature changes that people get around all types of
paranormal phenomena, including UFOs, the electronics failure, the time loss,
the sense of mental confusion. I'm suggesting that these are
connected because they're coming from some underlying related phenomena. If
it's something else, I'm happy for someone else to suggest
an alternative. But to me, it seems like a ball lightning,
dark matter type phenomena, just based on all of this
other research where the cold fusion researchers say the room
got suddenly cold, as I mentioned, Shaq Paranhoff was another
saying the pictures came out blurry. Just it sounds to
me like something very similar. So to go back to
your questions, as he's kind of long winded answer those
types of orbs, you could make the argument, I mean,
there could be some other explanations, but you could make
the argument that they're all variations. They're part of the
same family of mobile luminous objects, which are based on
another type of Maxwellian symmetry, a fractal basis. We can
go into what that is that's closed in that goes
concentrates rather than the normal types of electromagnetism from radio
and radio emissions that were used to that spreads out
this sort of concentrates and it built and it goes
down to the quantum level. That generates a lot of
energy from that type of compression.
Speaker 2: Any idea why that would happen more frequently in one area?
I know earthquakes can sometimes cause ball lightning. That wasn't
the case when I saw that orb. Actually that was
the first thing I checked, was for seismic activity. But
is there something that could make that happen in nature
spontaneously or happen more often in certain areas?
Speaker 3: Now that's another great question. It's something I puzzled over
for years. Why these certain areas. If the ideas I'm
telling you were true, why isn't it spread out evenly
over the planet. You don't generally see balls a light
coming up your street, though people do sometimes, But I
mean these seem to be concentrated in certain areas. I
think it has to do with the particular types of
crystals and chemical elements in the soil that generate static charges.
Those static charge is under certain conditions, can create as
you mentioned a few moments ago, Susie, the ken shoulders
like charge separation the basis of all of his work.
Charge separation leading to these exotic vacuum objects. You call
them the electron for texas the different names for this.
But we're talking about static electricity. Okay, let's break it down,
keep it simple at the high school level. We're talking
about types of static, long lived types of static. You
see this when you walk across a rug, or you
touch your pet, or even see it on the sheets
at night, certain types of sheet materials on your bed
in the dark, you'll see those little sparkles. That's what
we're talking about. When it sustains itself on a longer
term basis, it can form its own containment field. And
become a long lived plasmoid. So to answer your question,
based on my research, places like skin Walker Ranch in
the San Luis Valley, where I spent some time recently
at the Nippy twenty five conference, which is open to
the public next year. By the way, if you do
your research into the soils of those areas, you have
a lot of guilsonite its Skinwalker. You have a lot
of silica in San Luis Valley. If my theory is right,
you should have some type of mineral in those soils
that's conducive to building up static and charge separation. Silica
builds up one type of charge separation. I believe it's
the positive type gilsonite. The negative type gilsonite being one
of the major elements in asphalt. It's a very I
have some of it around her. It's a very lightweight,
dark material that is used in asphalt. But it also
creates a lot of static and charge separation. In Simeon's
view of this, and I'm happy for it to be
proven wrong, this is caused by a normally high concentration
of some mineral in the area that leads to these
charge clusters. Exotic vacuum objects and I'm not reducing this.
Don't think I'm a reductionist. He're just trying to explain
this way. I'm saying this leads to other types of
life forms being there. That's what we're talking about, is
some type of life forms like that type of charge
and they live around it. Maybe it's like a food
for them or their energy source. They cluster around this
type of static. I've seen the ball lightning too, Susie,
in the crop circles, because we detected a lot of
static around those crop circles with our trek twenty one
meter from a company in Medina, New York that sells
these mobile static charge detectors, and we detected really vast
changes in static in some of these crop circles. And
you also see these orbs around the crop circles. So
kind of putting it all together, in my view, this
is a result of charge clusters building up in certain
parts of the planet and life forms and other types
of things. We don't even have the vocabulary to describe
what these are. They look some of them look flesh
and blood. I'm willing to go there, yeah, with bigfoot
in others, but there are other aspects of bigfoot that
don't fit, just a purely physical model without the quantum mechanics.
So that's what I think, Susie, I mean, what do
you think do you do you think there's another reason?
Could be the history of the area, you know, civil
war battlefields, lots of mayhem and destruction and violence leaving
souls behind. I don't know. There could be other reasons too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always felt it had it was some kind
of energy based, whether it's energy from humans, Like they
say lay lines are popular in England, but a lot
of them are the paths in between two churches, So
you'd have people walking these these lines for centuries, right,
So like the imprint of the energy from those people's
may have created the lay lines. I don't like the
battlefield or the Native American curse theories at all because
the entire country would be haunted and have all this activity.
Speaker 3: True, the entire country had a lot of.
Speaker 2: Violence, Yeah, absolutely, like.
Speaker 3: Exterminated just to get at the Native Americans food support.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I mean from what you're saying,
it does kind of make sense. Like humans co habitat
like near freshwater sources, rivers and things like that, So
maybe these things are just living near whatever their energy sources.
Speaker 3: Sus. Another great point. I was reading freaking Science magazine.
I love Science magazine, been reading it for three decades
ver since grad school. There was an article about how
streams and waterways create natural charge separation just from the
colliding water molecules against rocks and moving along the riverbeds
and the water molecules create charge separation. So maybe that's
why we're attracted to streams and water flows. There's a
kind of a charge there. Maybe, Hey, guys, maybe we're
getting energy from that too without even knowing it. It's
like subconsciously we like to be around energized areas with
a lot of charge clusters.
Speaker 2: And I have like an ongoing joke at work that
if we need to come up with a solution of something,
I say, okay, I'll think of it when I'm doing
dishes tonight or when I'm in the shower tomorrow. It's
always when I'm touching water, I get good ideas.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, because I get
ideas in the shower too, and doing dishes, just like
you're doing running water. I never thought of that. Hey,
we're making some.
Speaker 2: Pres here figuring stuff out.
Speaker 3: We were really figuring something out. I think what you're
talking about has something to do with it. I think
there's a physical component, a chemical component. But that doesn't
mean what we're talking about is really easy to understand.
We're not going to explain it all away and just
be on MPR with some sort of glib reporting. Oh
we explained ghosts. It's just some sort of static charge,
you know. No, let's take the shoulders point of view.
He called them dark organizations with ghostly properties coming out
of black ball lightning. Okay, black evos, the micro ball lightning.
Even Takiyaki Matsumoto, who you mentioned, just most meticulous researcher.
I mean, he took notes on everything. Bob Greener went
over there part of the MFMP Martin Flischer a memorial
project to Masimota passed away last year and to collect
all of his papers and bring everything back in all
his videotapes, and it was every letter he ever got
for many researcher. He had made notes. Just in crouble,
he called it. He said he could see micro black
holes in the filming ulsion, these dark spots. I don't
know if that's literally what they are, but they're really
weird looking, completely black spots in the middle of his
little cold fusion experiments again that he did with wires underwater.
So so it's a it's a very good question whether
this leads to another realm of life. That's what I
think is going on. I mean, I don't think any
hard scientists would want to go in that direction because
it the giggle factor and everything else that you alluded
to Steve at the beginning. I mean, this is sort
of what keeps people from having the courage to go
off in new directions unfortunately. I mean the education I
had guys going to, as I mentioned to Susie, was
Lean and then Hampshire College and Amherst. These were very
independent thinking institutions that taught me at least to evaluate
arguments and look at other possibilities and consider the evidence,
and that the conclusion you may come up to is
not a popularity contest. You just follow the data. You
follow the logic. Doesn't mean it's instantaneously apparent, but over
years of looking at subjects and you keep seeing the
same pat you just follow it. Now, maybe people are
going to think it's weird, but I mean tough because
everything that's ever been invented is seemed pretty weird, you know,
Nikola Tesla Marconi. Think of all these inventors in the past.
There was an inventor who invented radio, who detected radio
waves in his lab, Thomas Hughes before Hertz, Heinrich Hurtz,
who's edited with inventing the idea radio. An American came
up with it, and people laughed at him, said, you
can't have invisible energy waves. It's an They called it imponderable.
Even temperature was laughed at ponderable. That's what's so beautiful
about the history of science. Everyone's always laughed at anything
that's now just basic part of our lives. So if
they're laughing now, that means it's real. In my view,
I mean, it's a good chance you're on the right track.
That's what you're looking for, is the ridicule, the hostility,
the negativity, the sheer arrogance that tells you what you're
on the right path. You're really hitting a nerve because
that's a mammalian defense against a new worldview. So I
look for that as a reaction to my research, as
a sign of being on the right track. It may
not make you the most popular person in the universe.
But you have the satisfaction of waking up every day
knowing you're really getting into the thick of what's going on,
and that is its own reward, just to feel like
you're really dealing with reality, even if almost everyone else
you know in your life and people you know that
you know don't get it, don't want to go that direction.
Every scientists who's done anything new Einstein. People laughed at Einstein.
When I was in the stats at Wesleyan one time, Susy,
I came across a book one hundred scientists prove Einstein wrong.
One hundred scientists against Einstein. We don't remember a single
one of those scientists anymore. It was one paper after another.
I wish we didn't have cell phones back then. I
wish I could have taken a picture of that. Those
guys are galas sort of like, oh, we know better
than that foolish guy with his you know, relativity theory,
and that's what it's like. It's really tough. So I, guys,
I don't know. I kind of relish it, but that's
just me. Go ahead laugh.
Speaker 1: One of the one of the first paranormal books you
read was the Mockman Prophecies by John Keele, And of course,
uh uh Kiel recognized early on the high strangeness about
all this, and he was trying to come to grips
with uh. He kind of hypothesized a super spectrum and
and that you know, do you see uh? And and
another thing about his uh you know, he he was
kind of uh, kind of vague about what was really
going on, suggested, I guess some kind of intelligence or
whatever that would somehow interface with us. But he also
seemed to suggest that we uh co created some of this,
that uh, some of these manifestations throughout time would change
shape and so forth depending on the sort of the
mass conciousness. Do you see any parallels with dark matter
monsters and some of Keel's ideas.
Speaker 3: No, that's a that's a really great question, Steve. You know,
Keel was one of the first books ever read on
this subject, and that was as a teenager. Just I
don't know how I came across it, but there it was.
I mean those books were chilling. Yeah, they still give
me the chilse just thinking about it. And I think
it must have sunk in deep into my mind and
emerged later as dark Matter monsters after Because you know,
it's not something I thought about, Steve, It's not something
I every day, John Keele. It kind of receded, as
you know, we're all concerned with our professional lives going
through academia. I never heard anyone mention any of this anywhere,
no one. It was just not something that people talked
about in the circles that I grew up in back
on the East Coast, in those types of schools and
those types of high schools and everything. It was very
kind of preppy, if you know what I mean, And
the people did not go in this direction. They were
really concerned about their future careers, even in college. But
I think Keel was on the right track because he's
suggesting to us that this is some sort of part
of life on Earth that we don't understand very well.
It doesn't have to be extraterrestrial, right something in Jacques
vallet point he's stressed many times the UFO researcher, computer inventor,
the apparently the guy that invented one of the people
invented the Internet, Jacques Palai. But yeah, it's part of
our reality, and I think, you know, you see references
to this throughout history, even going back to the Bible,
in my case, the Old Testament. I've heard rabbis I've
been in contact with talk about this supernatural world, about
the Creator creating this at the same time as the
physical world. For some reason, you and I are more
in this physical one, or at least that's what we're
aware of. But I think Keil was on the right track,
and I do have a short Keel story for you.
We were once having this type of conversation in a
pool at a remote viewing conference in Clearwater, Florida. Held
was sponsored by Lin Buchanan and a bunch of us
who had been trained with him. So we showed up
in Clearwork and we're hanging out in the pool. I'm
hanging out with some other r veers and one of
the women I'm talking to We're start talking about exactly
that John Keel, the phone ringing, disconnecting, the phones ringing
that were disconnected the movie. So okay, we all go
to bed. I go back to my motel room. At
about three am. The phone starts ringing and there's no
one there, and it's just a very strange sound on
the other side of the phone, and I hung up
and it rings again, and I'm thinking, what are the odds?
I mean, here we are talking about that whole genre,
and my phone's ringing and there's no one I can hear.
There's no one there. It's just static. It's not like
breathing or anything. It's just it's just like a dead
It's like a signal, but there's no person on the
other end of the line. So I pulled the phone
out of the wall. I pulled the phone out of
the wall. Guys just going back. I mean, I'm thinking,
I'm thinking, John Keel right there, how real is this?
And I went to check with the you know, the
front desk the next day and they said, no, those
calls have to be routed through us. It's not an
automatic system. We have to rout the calls. We don't
need record last night of any calls coming to your room. So,
I mean, other researchers have talked about this. Mark Macy,
you know, he did this instrumental transparent communication. It's kind
of another version of this with spirits deceased people. When
he asked the phone company about this, they said, it's
not coming through our phone, LI and it's originating in
your phone. These made recordings of these calls with deceased people,
people that he knew, other people knew who passed on,
and they're calling back allegedly and they said, no, it's
originating in the phone, which is very keel like. So yeah,
I think there. I haven't looked at John Kill's work recently.
I probably should reread it, and I know he has
other books that I didn't read, but it's along the
same lines. What I'm doing is suggesting an aspect of physics,
condensed matter physics that helps us move a little farther
down the road, physics that we already accept that seems
to me in a not very difficult way to fit.
Another researcher that's looked into this a little bit, Gerald
Pollock from University of Washington, Seattle, with a fourth state
of water. That water has another phase that we're not
familiar with, a sort of liquid crystal phase between solid
and liquid, and it has some strange properties and explains
why hot water freezes faster than cool water, and why
you get wisps of vapor trails over your coffee when
a gas normally just disperses, or even why do clouds
stay up in the sky. Given how heavy water is.
Have you ever carried water? How's it staying up there?
So he explains this in the fourth state of water,
and he created one idea. I just want to mention
this vortex cooling. I mean, when he talked about vortex cooling, like, okay,
I'm paying attention now, certain structures absorb heat. That's how
where they get their energy from their self organizing. It
just sounds very similar to a lot of phenomena that
we study about why these lifeforms cool their environment. Is
they're literally deriving energy from their environment. And I think
that's what Pollack is talking about. So Steve, to answer
your question, you know, I think Kiel was on the
right track. I think there's a physical chemical aspect to
it that hasn't been explored very much, just because people
generally don't want to go in that direction and risk
their career, you know, risk their tenure and popularity with
their colleagues going into the spooky wookie stuff. But I
think that's where you know, the prizes are here, is
to why do people experience this? What are they experiencing
Instead of saying, oh, they're hallucinating, it's so yeah, Susy
swamp gas, right, that stuff is not swamp gas. It's cool,
it's cool to the touch. That's not anything burning. It's
not like methane. We have to go beyond that. We've
had half a century at least of these ridiculous explanations
for these phenomenona. Again, Steve, going back to original question earlier.
The government's done its job for some weird reason, to
try to promote all of the hoax theories around this
and the conventional explanations. I mean, they funded a lot
of people like Donald Menzel. Yeah, psychops and all these
debunkers and debunking organizations. You kept, you know, scoffers. It's
just scoffing. And I don't think that's It's not a
good use of our money anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, Uh, Susie, you had a particular question for a summon.
I didn't want you to lose that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Steve and I were talking earlier and I
was telling him there has been this new factor I've
been noticing in a pocology sightings and I haven't heard
it before. It is only then people I've directly spoken
to and had the chance to ask questions too. There
was a while back where I was fascinated by the
smells involved in sightings. So I started asking people did
you smell anything when this happened. The answer I keep
getting is they smelled ozone?
Speaker 3: Right right?
Speaker 2: Have you noticed that as well?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that totally fits with the ideas we're talking
about here. One of the byproducts of cold fusion letter
is sulfur an ozone.
Speaker 2: So sulfur is another one not with Pucklin, yes, but
paranormal a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, there's that whole book, The Brimstone deceit by.
Speaker 1: Is it Cutching Cutching, Joshua Cutching.
Speaker 3: Yeah. He goes through case after case where people had
the smells that to me is a transmutational process. This
is like again, purely physical evidence of transmutation going on,
and ozone sulfur are the result of oxygen sixteen going
to sulfur thirty two. It even fits what we know
how chemical reactions work. Oxygen turns to sulfur in certain conditions,
and where you have transmutation going on, you know, when
these entities are here, these life forms, whatever you want
to call them, you get those smells left behind, sulfur
like smells ozone like smells which againstests novel electromagnetic processes
going on, and oxygen oxygen fusing two other elements that
no scientists would argue can't happen. So yeah, that those
types of smells that you get around these phenomena, even
bigfoot ball lightning. You read the literature, people get those
sulfur type smells, ozone smells. It's the same thing around
certain types of ghost encounters, certain types of cryptids of
course UFOs. To me, that suggests again without being reductionist, here,
just a wide range of phenomena associated with transmutation, nucleonic synthesis, alchemy,
a room temperature alchemy. When we were talking about Newton before,
that was his you know, his real pet idea. That's
what he loved as much as anything else, was the
idea of alchemy. And it looks to me, based on
the research of these companies again Proton twenty one Labs
and other researchers, you can even do it through sonic
ultrasonic sound waves. You get this transmutation of elements. You
end up producing different elements in the periodic table, and
one of them miss.
Speaker 2: Silver, and that's why they can kind of pop in
and out because it's transmutation, there's some kind of reaction happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the transmutation is a sort of a
side reaction from this. What we're talking about here is
coherent matter. It's a step past plasma. It's what some
of us think ball lightning and microball lightning are is.
It's where the atomic particles are coherently related to the
other particles in frequency and temperature. You could think of
it like a laser or flocks of birds, murmerations of birds,
all kind of a wave and the way you look
like a wave moving across the sky. That's an analogy
for coherent matter. Lockeed Martin has a patent in using
coherent matter to generate non local effects. They use the
analogy of a laser, but a million times more powerful.
So one of the effects of this coherency is for
elements to come apart and then recombine in other ways
oxygen reassembling into So it's something we were taught guys
in school. Is impossible. You know that it was just
this sort of medieval idea of alchemy that's a type
of mysticism. But I think if you look at the
research from this research tradition. You get a lot of elements,
a lot of researchers showing different chemical elements appearing in
their experiments. Marc Leclair's another one. These are really serious researchers.
In some cases they've worked with the government. They've shown
us that you get all these different elements in the
periodic table, all the way lighter elements, and they get heavier.
I mean, this could be one of the reasons why
it's classified. I mean, you start getting into radioactive elements too.
So yeah, you can produce all these elements and the
one we would smell would be the sulfur smell. So
it seems to me susy. My understanding of it is
that these coherent energy transformations. One of the effects that
this has been going on is transmutation of elements. And
another one is that you can look for, at least
at a microscopic level, are called strange tracks. Go figure
strange tracks. There are little hopping marks in a photo
emulsion of a ball lightning microbolt spinning around, moving through
the emulsion as it kind of gyrates around, it leaves
these little tracks. It's called strange track. Those are two
of the symptoms of this sort of process. So this
would be one sort of experiment we could do in
these paranormal hotspots. If we had photo emulsions there, would
we find these strange tracks on if we looked under
an electron microscope later, would we get more of that
versus a controlled control sample with less paranormal activity. Just
an interesting experiment to do to see if this is
right or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'm not going to get into my feelings
about Ed Lorraine Warren, but that just took me back
when I was in middle school. I read The Demonologist,
which is the book that Ed Warren wrote, and he
talks about seeing this dark black ball like misty ball
forming in the corner and then smelling sulfur. Yeah, maybe
that was what you get.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you get this around orbs and micro ball lightning
and even ball lightning that comes out of thunderstorms. You
know that ozone smell you get out of thunderstorms. You
get that out of ball lightning too, even after the
thunderstorm is left. You know, se people see I say,
they see this ball lightning hopping towards them. I mean
they seem to hop down the road coming towards them
or wherever they're I've spoken to people that have seen
this hiking in the Tetons, and it just gemes. It
sort of trundles down the path towards you, like it's
a physical thing, and it leaves behind that smell, that
ozone type smell, which suggests a highly energetic process, not
necessarily a high temperature. So we're not talking about swamp.
You're not gonna beat anything physically burning. We're talking about
something emitting microwaves, radio waves, electromagnetic energy made. Those things
can produce heat, but the object itself is cool. But
that transmutation definitely leaves some symptoms behind. If people were
interested in studying this, you know, we could do experiments
where we would see is this happening? Or am I wrong?
Do you not get this in these things? Is there
another cause? The only one way to find out is
to do some experiments. But you do get this in
the cold fusion, lener realm a lot so and cryptids too,
you know, pick your cryptid, dog man, bigfoot, puguages. People
sometimes say they get those sulfur smells left behind. That's
where you get the brimstone, you know, devils and brimstones
and all this. I think that historical literature tells us something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they do seem to be some kind of
life form. I mean people talk about having telepathic communication
with Bigfoot.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's another effect mind speak. Yeah, I've spoken
to people who have had this happen.
Speaker 1: Actually, Ron Moorehead's daughter was Ronda, I believe was. She
was at a Bigfoot conference several years ago and she
got up spontaneously and talked about the bizarre experiences that
she was having when she was out with her father
and the Sierra Nevadas. And one time she was in
the tent and she started getting these telepathic communications and
they were asking her, who are you? Who's that man
you're with? And so she was actually having a conversation
with him, and she's very credible.
Speaker 3: So you're saying, Ronda Morehead, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know what her last name is daughter, Yeah, yeah,
her daughter, but I don't know if she has a
married namer.
Speaker 3: So that brings up a lot of other interesting effects here,
like mine speak. We haven't gotten into that, but that's
a big component this. Even people that didn't believe in
Bigfoot have experienced the mind speak. You listen to these
different podcasts Sasquatch chronicles others. People say it can sound
like even like a robotic computerized voice talking in their head.
At least that's how your brain interprets the sight the signal.
And yeah, people experience this sort of mind speak. They
get it before the contact. It's a very interesting component.
Another aspect of this is strange sounds in and around
these areas, but their coherent sounds fits with coherent matter.
You're gonna get coherent sound. They're directional sounds. In other words,
one person could hear it and the other won't, and
they'll wonder within their head like you're saying or not.
But there's another explanation is it was directed like a
laser beam of light, but with sound at a certain
direction and people on the other direction don't hear it.
Speaker 1: Asked the questions about crop circles, Yeah, I read your
book when I heard joy I must have been on
art Bell many years ago promoting opening minds, and I
think that was the first time, I mean I didn't
know much about crop circles. I think it was the
first time I read an account where people would actually,
you know, go out and meditate and create these things overnight.
Now you talked about some of the strange phenomena that
shows up. Is it true that some of the high
strangeness occurs with crop circles that seem that that are
made by humans and others that seem to be made
through some kind of a paranormal agency. Did they both
have a high strangeness attached to them?
Speaker 3: Yes, they do. In my view. That was part of
the reason of writing Opening Minds was that was our
surprise finding is when we started making them. You know,
when we started paying farmers and using their fields, we
would get some of those same effects in our electronics,
and sometimes people would come in there later and get
similar types of effects. We later just put up signs
saying this is man made, the farmer has been paid,
and people didn't believe us. They would say, there's no
way you could have made this, and why are we
getting these word effects? That was the big mystery to
me for so many years, is why a man made
information would do that. But if you look at the again,
vortex cooling, a lot of these crop circles are based
around vortex patterns. They're going to act like waveguides and
change the frequencies of the energy that's just in the
background creates concentrations of static, just like any vortex based
shape would in a field. And it doesn't mean that
ones weren't made by UFOs or other means. I've spoken
to witnesses. I've seen discs flattened feel at least in areas.
It's in one of the witnesses in Black Swan Ghosts.
You can see her interview on the Blackswan ghost dot
com website. I put up the interviews. This is Louise Vovis.
Other people have seen weird interactions between flying discs, UFOs
and fields, so those exist too. But the people that
had attempted to imitate that seem to have created, you know,
other types of effects, maybe the same effects by virtue
of the shape. Now, the traditional crop circle researchers did
not want to hear this. They didn't want man made
circles intermixing with their alien made circles. Again talking about
rigid mindsets here, and I used to be in that
camp too. I would have thought, oh, humans can't do that.
That's what I used to say, based on what we
had heard. But what we had heard wasn't totally accurate.
Humans could do this. We went out with them at
night and watched them work, and they could do this.
It's something you get better at with practice. You can
do it in a few hours of darkness, with walkie
talkies and some lasers you can get straight lines and coordinated.
But these researchers too, I mean, these circle makers were
also researchers. They thought something very spooky was going on
once they made these circles, so they called it. Some
of them called it natural magic. They didn't consider it hoaxing.
They thought it was a type of natural magic out
in nature. And that's the view that I you know,
eventually accepted too, that the human made ones have some
really strange components. As you heard with Art Bell when
those interviews, and he was a good interviewer, Steve, you
heard some of those interviews, I mean that we create
vortex patterns and put smoke over them and things. So
he actually he could kind of see this a little bit.
But yeah, that's my point of view on it, Steve,
is that both types have interesting effects. They certainly affect
our cameras, batteries, electronics, and again I'm making the argument
that these are all fundamentally some of the same effects
no matter what type of phenomena you're looking into some
of the same effects. I'm not saying it's all one
hundred percent the same thing. Again, it's not reductionism. I'm
just saying there's some parallels based on the electro dynamics
of vortex based structures. Interacting with electromagnetic spectrum creates charge
clusters and some of the permittivity shifting effects of charge
clusters that affects your electronics, whether it's made by people
or it's some other entities showing up. I mean Bigfoot.
I think of all that hair they have, that very
fine hair be very good for creating static charge. People
have seen them glowing. They glow blue. People have seen
not just their eyes, I mean their body looks glowing.
Blood sounds to me like charge clusters.
Speaker 1: Now you viewed some crop circles the source or we
have what what have you found?
Speaker 3: Well, some of them did have a mysterious origin, I mean,
and we can back that up with that book by
uh the Secret History of Crop Circles, right, uh, which
goes into who is the who is the author of
the Secret History of Crop Circles?
Speaker 1: It's not Scilla, is that Freddy Silla?
Speaker 3: No? No, Freddy uh No, not it's not Freddy uh,
it's well whatever. It's the secret history of crop circles.
It's been reprinted. It goes into the history of crop
circles going back hundreds of years, and they've been around,
you know, for a long time, and they are associated
with ball lightning, vortex plasmas, plasmoids. People have seen witnessed this,
But it doesn't mean that the bigger, more precise looking
ones didn't have a human hand in it. I mean
there was a time when that kind of bothered me too,
like other researchers, like because you had really staked your,
you know, your reputation on the idea that this wasn't
human reproducible. But that was not correct. Humans are more
innovative than you think. They create art in ways that
is not always obvious. And there was a time in
history where people didn't share information like they do nowadays.
We live in a culture nowadays where people share information.
You're reviewed, published papers and research, and it's all available online.
You can research to your heart's condemn It hasn't always
been like that. There was a time when people kept
this stuff kind of concealed, and the crop circle tradition
had more of that going on like a secret field art.
So it's understandable that people couldn't believe that humans could
make it. But there was a time when people use
something called the camera obscura to create very new types
of paintings that have perspective in them and so forth
that no one quite understood how they did it for
a while. So it's in the nature of art to
have a level of secrecy to it. I think we
saw that in the in the crop circles also, but
that secret history of crop circles is a good start
to show you how there are diverse causes of crop circles.
There are different causes, not just one thing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I guess they used to call them double twists,
the things. They have different names for them, very circles, Yeah,
very circles, of course, and that's even.
Speaker 3: Used in the scientific literature. Seve there was an article
about fairy circles in the deserts of Namibia. Well, it
could cause these circles to show up, and there was
forgot what the explanation was, certain types of micro organisms
growing there or something that that sort of conventional explanation.
But yeah, double circles, fairy circle, they have had different
names over over the years, Susie.
Speaker 2: I'm taking it all in. I'm still I think I'm
on board with you know, Tuckwadgies are the East Coast
version of what's forming over in the Pacific northwest over there.
We don't we have had it. We did have a
big foot sighting this year in Connecticut, though.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you did, you did. There were some in Westchester.
I've been back there to New York. I've heard about
some happening in Westchester too, tree structures. People had some
video allegedly of something standing there next to the tree structure.
So maybe a changing. But that's interesting, Susie that the
Pugwadgies aren't East Coast thing, because there is a Native
American term for them called the bug wass. Yes, Northwest
coast literature. But the case is, I've read about them.
Were like, you're saying, we're on the East coast.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I actually I did talk to somebody in Washington State
that had a little person sighting, but they seemed different,
Like what I hear here is they're less physical here
than I hear of from people in other areas. But yeah,
every every tribe and every country has some kind of
little people.
Speaker 3: The Oregon has its own brand.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: People have described them in their airbnbs, you know, and
as you know, they are not They are not always
nice and playful. They have a wicked sense of humor.
They can be really unpredictable from my reading.
Speaker 2: From so from my perspective, it is reactive abuse. So
if you are going into their woods and messing things up,
you're you're dealing with the consequences of your action. I
don't think they are inherently evil or out to get people,
but they just defund themselves.
Speaker 3: Right right, right right. They're very capable.
Speaker 2: Yes, and just because you're little doesn't.
Speaker 3: Mean the Native Americans I spoke who said they are
they are the fearsome ones. Forget the big foot them.
Speaker 2: It's the same with humans.
Speaker 3: Really. Yeah, it's uh. Maybe someday we'll have alexography of
all these different types of beings out there in the
regions they inhabit, and we'll understand why some of them
are more East coast or West coast, or based in
Oregon or wherever. Yeah, each region has its own its
own types of creatures, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely Yeah, that's that's really uh, it's really interesting. But
it's uh, you know, you try to wrap your head
around us. I mean you that it's it's it's uh,
it's accompanied by this really bizarre phenomenon which we may
have begin to have an explanation for, but then to
think of them as, uh, you know, they are apparently
some kind of a life form, and uh, that's it's
just really hard to uh to get to get a
grasp on that, to try and figure out how they
how it all interfaces with reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think a lot of it, Steve comes down
to our own ego as humans, just thinking where the
be all and end all of creation, where the high point.
I just think our ego doesn't want to think of
other types of beings caught with comparable abilities that have
a different morphology and structure to them. It's a type
of I don't know where this kind of bigotry comes from.
Is it biological or or what or just how we've
been raised. Those are all possibilities, but we're prejudiced towards humans,
thinking that we have some sort of privileged place in
the universe, and it predisposes us not to want to
talk about other types of life. That's my view of it,
because why would you get the same types of encounter experiences.
People experience all types of these entities in these regions
for decades and hundreds of years, and going back thousands
of years in Native American literature and stories about these
beings and entities. No, I don't think it's just something
that's I don't think it's just imagination or a misidentification
of ordinary animals. I think there's I think if they
really exist, and we just haven't grown up enough to
just accept that there's just different type of life out there.
Look at even regular biological animals, there's often great resistance
to believe in giant squid. At one time, the mountain gorilla.
It was discovered by the Romans, then forgotten about again,
and when modern researchers discovered the mountain gorilla, people didn't
believe it. So there is just this tendency not to
want to look into new species. And again you have
to look at the institutional biases for researchers not to
want to have attention go to newer sorts of phenomena.
When they've staked their life in one type of form,
they probably don't see any benefit to themselve else of
looking into these creatures. But the consistency of the reports,
it's so incredible from one person to another. And people
don't talk about this a lot, so they don't even
have any basis for knowing what they've seen. But when
you read their accounts, there's a lot of consistency. And
it's not just because in my view, because the brain
is the same brain, so they're seeing the same things.
I think they're really you know, just like we go
out and see the same types of trees and birds
and have similar descriptions, that's what they're seeing with these
types of life, these types of life that are just
more transient, and it takes a lot of maturity as
a person to accept that things could exist that you
can't control, that you weren't taught about, that you don't
completely understand. To me, it's just human arrogance that always
wants to believe it's right, and you know nothing to
see her folks move along that that's what your brain
wants to do, and it's supported by the types of
school systems we have. People really are not encouraged to
be curious. But if you really take the time to
listen to these witnesses on your favorite podcast, read books
that they've written. Even Ron Moore House Siera sounds. Look
how flipped out Ron is. I've talked to him a
couple of times, and he's been on my YouTube channel.
I've met with him at conferences. I mean, what he's
talking about, he didn't even believe it. But he's got
the tape tapes, the recorders. It's recording these chattering sounds.
You can't see them, and they're right there and you
don't see Nobody saw them. They're right outside your hunting instructure.
But you peek your head out, there's nothing there, but
everyone's hearing it, recorders hearing it. So yeah, it may
not be easy to understand, but nobody said that the
universe came with this money back guarantee. That's supposed to
be easy to understand. Who said it was easy to
said it's easy to understand. That's some sort of fiction
we grew up around. It's not easy to understand. But
if you're you know, you don't have to. But if
you want to take the time to look into it,
you're going to come across stuff that's you don't know
what it is. Nobody knows what it is. There isn't
anyone who knows what it is. I'm sorry, it's just
where you end up. And we just have each other
to have conversations like this, people who experienced these things,
and that's how we'll finally piece it together and science
once again will have shown us that it's incapable of
adapting to new data. Which is what Thomas Kon sort
of suggested in his you know, his book about revolutions
in science and new paradigms. It is nobody wants to
go to a newer version of reality. Everyone wants to
stick with what's comfortable. That's where we're at with it.
So those of us that are interested have to keep
forging ahead and do our best and let the chips
fall where they will.
Speaker 1: And before we wrap it up, could you say a
little bit about black Swan ghosts. Tell us what a
black Swan event is.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, I wrote this book because just being
in the subject matters. Initially just remote viewing and then
going to UFO conferences, I had encountered so many people
who said, I've never told anyone this, but and these
are people that had worked in the government intelligence agencies, biologists, NASA,
and they had seen things and it led me to
believe that this was something that wasn't very rare after all,
but it was rare to our awareness. Black Swan events
are events that are statistically improbable but have a very
large impact once they do happen, and it's something that's
not easy to talk about because maybe there's no reference
for it. In Boulder, Colorado, where I've lived for a
long time, we had this flood in twenty thirteen that
was like one of these five hundred year floods or
one thousand year floods. Someone was certain had ever no
one alive had ever seen anything like this. Maybe it
was a Native American lore, but there wasn't any living
person who had ever seen this before. It's hard to
imagine it raining continuously for a week, the types of
flooding that can happen in an area that's not used
to that. So it just I mean, it just reached havoc,
just like hurricanes can do. But this was unpredictable. This
is the sort of same type of thing with UFOs,
And I would say these types of topics we're talking
about in this interview, there are topics that if they
went to the forefront and we had them discussed more openly,
would lead to a kind of ontological shock of our
whole culture. That's why I call it a black Swan event.
It doesn't seem believable to the average person now, but
if enough evidence came forward and the credible people testified
in front of Congress, people with really impeccable credentials, and
I know some of these people haven't come on public yet,
and I know what they could be telling us, you
would have a different view of reality when they were
done testifying. And we've had these witnesses come forward in
these hearings recently. So basically, stee If I encountered a
lot of witnesses, missile security guards, people who had never
told their story, and I just found them and we
sat down with a tape recorder and I put a
lot of these videos on the Blackswan ghost dot com site.
You can go to the videos I put up the
original videos. You can listen to these people. They are
people that have great stories to tell, but because of
this fear of ridicule and the giggle factor, we don't
hear this. I bet there are a lot more people
out there like this, So I think it's exciting as
this information becomes more public. I think people gradually feel
that it's okay to talk about it, and maybe we'll
hear from witnesses who've seen these sorts of things are handled,
wreckage and so forth, maybe even really first class Bigfoot
witnesses that we haven't heard from yet, right, that really
would put the subjects on the matter. Wouldn't that be exciting?
I think put in uphas the whole subject matter of
cryptid life forms.
Speaker 1: You know, non or I think it has changed a
little bit, I mean with the the amount of TV
shows and so forth. I was. I actually I work
at the Mothman Museum and they actually pay me to
do that, to talk to people answer questions. Don't tell
my employer, Jeff Wonnsley, that I would do it, I
would pay him. But I was. I was sitting on
the bench out front one time and I was talking
to a lady that grew up there, and she said,
you know, back in the old days, boy, if you
had an experience, you just kept your mouth shut. And
you know from reading the John Keel that the Scarberrys
and the Balance, the other other witnesses that came forward
at the time, the ridicule that they suffered. Yeah, I think.
I mean, there's still a lot of that, but it
does seem like people can come forward a little easier
these days and tell their story.
Speaker 3: I think so. I think it's because of shows like
this one and others like this. We're having a dialogue
online and you can watch it now, load it up
into your favorite podcast app YouTube. There are ways to
get this information, and you can consume the information in
the privacy of your car or your home, and you
don't worry about that as much as when everything kind
of came over a couple central channels. So my prediction
is it's going to evolve rapidly. Steve, this is how
it starts. It starts with a trickle, but it comes
a flood. Once you take your finger out of the
dyke that's holding up the whole thing and the leak starts.
The dam can come down pretty quickly. We've seen this
politically in different countries over the decades. Things can change
faster than you would expect, and it would be like
your sand castle's collapsing in the water rushing in when
you were a kid on the beach, in the whole
area that you had been That's what I see happening
here because there's because linking it back to the scientific
progress we could be making just this sense of integrity
of having a realistic understanding of the multiverse or universe
that we live in right just that I think natural
human desire to have a kind of accurate sense of
what's around us. I think that trumps all this conditioning
we've had to avoid the spooky wookie woe stuff, you know.
I mean in physics, what did they call it, shut
up and calculate. That's what the quantum physicists told us.
It was called shut up and they experienced too. Don't
talk about foundations and implications, just do your measurements. I
think that's yeah. I think it's changing, and I think
we can look forward to seeing more discussion about this.
I've seen it even in the cold fusion articles that
have come out in mainstream scientific journals recently about cold
fusion in geological processes deep in the earth creating volcanoes.
As you were saying before, Susie earthquakes, that could be
a Lener based process. And where's all that magma coming
for what's heating it? It could be a Lenner process
that's created People have argued this. So I think gradually
you do see this change, and I think that's the
time we're living in. Makes it very exciting to be
around right now.
Speaker 1: Well, please tell us about where to find your books,
your YouTube channel, and how people can get a hold
of you.
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, Well, dark Matter Monsters has its own website,
Darkmattermonsters dot com, lacks vun dot com, Opening Minds dot info,
Planetary Intelligence dot com. You can go to my log
site new crystalmind dot com. I post everything there, and
I have a new Patreon site where I kind of
very post things for members right before I put them
up on YouTube for people that want to see the
latest stuff I'm working on. I want to have a
little more communication and my YouTube channel. People are welcome
to check out my YouTube channel. And if you look
at my sites, you'll see I have like free mini
RV classes. You know, you don't even need to take
some training. I put up seven videos how to do it.
Just put your email in. You can go through, you know,
about two hours of training or so that I just
put up with a real target at the end, so.
Speaker 1: That'd be great. I have dabbled with remote viewing a
little bit, had some minor success, but I'm a kind
of that wants to know things. You know. Of course,
the stuff that I would be seeking out that probably
I wouldn't be able to get feedback. I'd be looking
at places on Mars or whatever that and who knows,
you know, if it's real.
Speaker 3: Or not right right, We have a group that meets
once a month, or anyone wants to join. Our group
meets on second Sunday every month, and if you just
go to my website you'll find the RV Zoom group.
We have had a big foot Zoom group too that
people are welcome to join, but that's on a bit
of a hiatus just because I was kind of busy
for the past year. But we did that for over
two years. Had the most amazing witnesses join our group
and tell us different sightings. You guys know the types
of things that are out there, different sightings of different things.
And they would say, I've never talked about this before,
but I know about your group. I want to share
and I don't even have the vocabulary to describe what
they saw. But it was living, that's all. We'll say.
It was living and could speak to them. So there's
a lot more out there and you know the final
word here, Steve. People should follow their curiosity and what
they see with their own eyes, and don't necessarily believe
what you've been told, follow your experiences, do your research,
and that'll help us all move forward with this.
Speaker 1: Well, it's really been great to have you here and
I hope you'll come back sometime.
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd be happy to you. Thanks a lot, Steven Sizzy.
Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun and now I'm going
to do my classic close out here. It's not very classic,
but it is a close out. The High Strangest Factor
was created by Staveboard and Andy Mercer and it's copyrighted
on the Paranormal UK Radio network. I want to thank
Irene Alan Block, Mark Johnson and Andy Mercer are fearless
leaders at the network. Andy is also producer for the
show and composed the closing theme. Brian Zeller proposed the
opening theme. You can also hear me weekly on Mac
Maloney's Military X Files on this same network. Andy Mercer
Susie Basti Leni will be backed with another installment of
The High Strangest Factor and I am Steve Ward, a
displaced Michigander deep in the Ohio Valley, living on the
same road that Mothman chased cars in the middle sixties
in Point Pleasant. We'll see you all again in a fortnight.
Speaker 3: Take care