Speaker 1: Hey, folks, good evening and welcome to you wherever you're
Speaker 1: listening from. My name is carlu Aja. Thanks for being
Speaker 1: on the space we'll call the Money space, and we're
Speaker 1: talking money, the economy and of course personal finance. Won't
Speaker 1: make it personal to you. We get those topics and
Speaker 1: of course we just courses that way, when you leave,
Speaker 1: you're a better investor. Now, this has been a crazy week,
Speaker 1: you know, like if you're just following the event of
Speaker 1: the world, it's difficult to keep up. We've got the
Speaker 1: stuff coming from the US, from the President Trump, lots
Speaker 1: of stuff happening over there. Also in Nigeria, we have
Speaker 1: a lot, a lot, a lot of love changes, right,
Speaker 1: you know. The main thing that happened over the week,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm doing this topic, is that the
Speaker 1: budget of Nigeria is out right and if you recall
Speaker 1: I don't you do the numbers per sepop the Nigerian government.
Speaker 1: The President some to the budget, I think it was
Speaker 1: two months ago and now in essence he has asked
Speaker 1: the National Assembly to increase the budget. Going to give
Speaker 1: you the guys actual numbers when we get into it.
Speaker 1: But the point is this, usually if you're a household
Speaker 1: or if you're a family and you already have a
Speaker 1: deficit budget, which means that for instance, you're going to
Speaker 1: spend much much more than you are going to make.
Speaker 1: That's a deficit budget. So that means in Nigeria's case,
Speaker 1: we were going to spend more than we were going
Speaker 1: to make, huge budget deficit, and we're going to finance
Speaker 1: that budget deficit from borrowing. We're going to borrow locally,
Speaker 1: we're going to borrow internationally. You see the trends with
Speaker 1: the eurobond, with a dollar bond that we borrow locally
Speaker 1: in Nigeria, and of course with the normal treasury bills
Speaker 1: and bonds. So the present some of the bullets and
Speaker 1: said listen, we're going to borrow and we're going to
Speaker 1: spend in the economy. Then he comes back to the
Speaker 1: National Assembly and says, hold the National Assembly, we have
Speaker 1: found more revenues in the Nigeran government. We're going to
Speaker 1: get more revenues from the nigeral customs and from the
Speaker 1: Federal Inland Revenue Service. So if you're an investor and
Speaker 1: you plan to borrow one hundred and ira to spend
Speaker 1: and then you finally you found fifteen ira somewhere in
Speaker 1: your pocket. You didn't know you had the fifty nine,
Speaker 1: but the fifty nine came. The normal thing to do
Speaker 1: is to say, wow, now I have fifteen era that
Speaker 1: I didn't plan for, right, so I'm going to more
Speaker 1: Let's take that fifteen era and not borrow. So instead
Speaker 1: of borrowing one hundred an era, I'm only going to
Speaker 1: borrow a fifteen era. But that's what the Nigeran government
Speaker 1: is do. Naiju is basically saying, no, we found this
Speaker 1: new money and we're simply going to increase the size
Speaker 1: of our spending. We're not going to cut down the spending.
Speaker 1: We're simply go to increase the size of Nigeria's spending.
Speaker 1: And that's the problem that we have in Nigeria. I've
Speaker 1: always insisted Nigeria does not have a revenue problem. You
Speaker 1: know when I say that, people, so we have two problems. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: niger doesn't have a revenue problem. Not that we don't
Speaker 1: need more money. There is no organization or nation on
Speaker 1: Earth that doesn't need more money. The difference is that
Speaker 1: when you get more money in Nigeria, it's just going
Speaker 1: to be spent the same way the current existing revenue
Speaker 1: flows have been spent is going to be wasted. I
Speaker 1: can give you five items that we show up in
Speaker 1: any budget. Number one, Assrock is going to get innovated.
Speaker 1: Number two, we're gonna buy tires, computation equipment and drugs
Speaker 1: for Assurock clinic. Number three, all diminishes Niger are gonna
Speaker 1: buy newspapers, periodicals, software and vehicles. This is every single
Speaker 1: year in the budget. We've got twelve months to do
Speaker 1: a budget. All they simply do is take last year's budget,
Speaker 1: adjust for inflation, sent it to the budget office. Maybe
Speaker 1: they had a few new initiatives. This last budget, guys
Speaker 1: did not have the largest infrastructure project that this president
Speaker 1: has passed. So think about it. The president has how
Speaker 1: many years one year to plan out the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five budgets. It goes from the President to his ministers
Speaker 1: to National Assembly, and they missed out the largest infrastructure project,
Speaker 1: the Legals to Calabar project wasn't the budget it was.
Speaker 1: It wasn't there. They say it's a typo. It was
Speaker 1: legal support tacle. But that's the point. The most consequential
Speaker 1: infrastructure project that you have in your administration was somehow
Speaker 1: type horized I wasn't in the budget. Love waste everywhere
Speaker 1: the National Assembly, guy, look look at the Vice President
Speaker 1: and guys, you know it's going to be. I'm going
Speaker 1: to give my speech and then I want you guys
Speaker 1: to help in because one solutions, right, America has to
Speaker 1: endulge one solutions. But let me give you my second example.
Speaker 1: The Vice President of Nigeria. The Vice President's mansioned in
Speaker 1: Nigeria was completed by the Federal Captature jogging as what
Speaker 1: are they agency or whatever authority for about twenty one billion.
Speaker 1: So it was completed. We spent twenty one billion. Outcry
Speaker 1: all over the place that listen, while we're spending so
Speaker 1: much money when we don't have enough money to take
Speaker 1: care of our folks back here. But I was shocked
Speaker 1: to find out that that building as we speak, is unoccupied.
Speaker 1: The VP has still not moved into the building. So
Speaker 1: you ask yourself, well, why did we spend twenty one
Speaker 1: billion if it's completing and it's not in the building.
Speaker 1: Waste twenty one billions waste. We don't need it today, right,
Speaker 1: it's not important even though we wanted, we don't need
Speaker 1: it today. Say with the presidential jet, save with many others.
Speaker 1: And it's not just the federal government. If you go
Speaker 1: down to the states, you see the exact same waste.
Speaker 1: A Boy State comes to mind, the poorest state in
Speaker 1: the southeast of Nigeria, one of the poorest states, not
Speaker 1: just in the South of Nigeria, in all of Nigeria,
Speaker 1: one of the poorest. They spent close to fifty billion naira,
Speaker 1: that is would be fifty billion naira to build an airport.
Speaker 1: Legos has Lego states. Legos, the states of Legos doesn't
Speaker 1: have their own airport, have federal airport. A Boy State
Speaker 1: fifty billion and this is minus the Reno vision to
Speaker 1: the time right that I're going to have to do
Speaker 1: to build an airport. Now they're spending five hundred million
Speaker 1: naira to fund folks that are going to go on
Speaker 1: a haj pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia. And I mean a
Speaker 1: Boy is in the southeast of Nigeria. Yes, they would
Speaker 1: have Muslims there in every state, but how many are
Speaker 1: they and even if they have fifty percent as Muslims,
Speaker 1: is that what a boy really needs? Now? Five hundred
Speaker 1: This is a state where the nut wants to go
Speaker 1: and strike over non prement of salaries and all that.
Speaker 1: So to spend that humorous amount of funds on hatch
Speaker 1: just tone death is the same idea. It's the same
Speaker 1: way to see federal, state and local government that you behave.
Speaker 1: Like we're Saudi Arabia where we have this huge trust fund,
Speaker 1: but it's a very very poor country. And I'll give
Speaker 1: you the example. If you take the total crude oil receipts,
Speaker 1: all of the crude oil nager would sell everything. I
Speaker 1: assume there's no oil theft, then all the crude oil
Speaker 1: Nigier would sell that fund. That income goes to pay
Speaker 1: only only the pensions, the salaries, allowances and service wide
Speaker 1: votes of only civil servants. That's the entire crude oil
Speaker 1: that we sell. Crude oil plus gas goes to pay salaries, pensions, allowances,
Speaker 1: service wide votes of only civil seventy Nigeria. How many
Speaker 1: si someone do we have in Nigeria? So all the
Speaker 1: roads you see, every other thing you see is borrowed.
Speaker 1: For Nijerato to build a road, we have to borrow money.
Speaker 1: But we have crude oil, we have gas. So what's
Speaker 1: the problem the spending thirty six states, the constituencies you
Speaker 1: have to have they six states spending we have we
Speaker 1: reduce ministries, we administries spending. We have the report before
Speaker 1: trum the Douche. We have the report and it's still unimplemented.
Speaker 1: The presidency is going to implement arousaling report. If you
Speaker 1: don't know that's reports, is going to merge ministries and
Speaker 1: use us overhead. South of the government is still not done.
Speaker 1: We not have the Ministry of livestock. We have a
Speaker 1: ministrure of agriculture, a ministry of livestock. Maybe we don't
Speaker 1: have fisheries yet. Maybe if a government comes from the
Speaker 1: president comes from the south South will have a ministry
Speaker 1: of fisheries. Then if we have one from the southwest
Speaker 1: will have ministry of cocoa, then the Southeast guys who
Speaker 1: come with the Ministry of palm oil. Doesn't make any sense,
Speaker 1: you know, it's all a cost. When you have a ministry,
Speaker 1: you have Ministry of tourism that adds nothing to the
Speaker 1: government's coffers. Now doing commission, there's tourism commission. You have soliminials.
Speaker 1: Ministry adds less than a bank in legals to the
Speaker 1: courfers will not those Solimal's commission. It's all an increase.
Speaker 1: Then the final one that takes the cake. This is
Speaker 1: the one that is just a joke and an insult
Speaker 1: to all Nigeria's is when the National Assembly says the
Speaker 1: one that creates is it tatty one new state? Tatty
Speaker 1: one new states. Let me explain this way right, all
Speaker 1: those IGR numbers you see, you say, they say you
Speaker 1: if you states can survive without IGR, it's not true.
Speaker 1: There is no state in Nigeria that can survive without
Speaker 1: without in IGR, without oil money. I said again, there's
Speaker 1: no state in Nigeria that can survive without oil money.
Speaker 1: The IGR you see is payroll tax. So if you
Speaker 1: were in the state and the state has its headquarters
Speaker 1: in your state, then the state the company pays its
Speaker 1: workers salaries. You tax the payroll. You call that IGR.
Speaker 1: So you post billions and you say, oh, my state
Speaker 1: can survive on IGR without crude oil. But that what
Speaker 1: you ignoi is that the company painted salaries. It's only
Speaker 1: surviving because there's crude oil in Nigeria. Look at it
Speaker 1: this way, even with the crude oil we have in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: you have record those guys that have left the country.
Speaker 1: Even with the crude oil how many international firms that
Speaker 1: sell internationally branded products are still in Nigeria. Look at
Speaker 1: how they are struggling. Cadbury Nestley are still here struggling.
Speaker 1: Unilever are still here struggling. Many have gone. I don't
Speaker 1: want to call names of forts have gone. Why Because
Speaker 1: there is no consumption. The purchasing partners is very very
Speaker 1: very very low. So no state in Nigeria today can
Speaker 1: survive without the revenues we get from crude oil and
Speaker 1: annoying part of it, crude oil is less than ten
Speaker 1: percent of Nigeria's GDP. The largest conduter of wealth to
Speaker 1: Nigeria is not crude oil, but the largest contributor of
Speaker 1: FX to Nigeria is crude oil. For sixty or so years,
Speaker 1: since nineteen six, Niger has not diversified high revenue source.
Speaker 1: We have kept crude oil generating ninety percent of effex.
Speaker 1: So if anything happens to crude oil, if coulde oil
Speaker 1: goes to fifty naira fifty dollars a barrel, all states
Speaker 1: in Nigeria will go broke. IGR No IGR payroll tax
Speaker 1: is not diversification. You are simply tax and payrolls. When
Speaker 1: we're talking about diversification. We're talking about what Cross River
Speaker 1: tried to do with Tinapa. If Tinapa had worked, you
Speaker 1: would have seen the state in Nigeria. Dia Pacifi is
Speaker 1: economic based completely to go from fark to tourism, trade
Speaker 1: and commerce. That's the specification. That's IGR. It's not payroll tax.
Speaker 1: So the issue is not if you have an IGR,
Speaker 1: is what's making of that IGR. So that's the point, guys,
Speaker 1: I only make I said, let's if you want to rant,
Speaker 1: you can rant. If you only give a suggestion, you can.
Speaker 1: But the trajectory of Nigeria is that we have built
Speaker 1: an economy today that is supposedly the largest in West Africa.
Speaker 1: We used to be like about this in Africa. But
Speaker 1: we have one weakness crude oil. Should anything happen to
Speaker 1: crude oil, then Nigerian economy will stop functioning irrespective of IGR,
Speaker 1: irrespective of diaspora. And that is just a huge risk
Speaker 1: and the problem is asibated because we have wasteful spending. Olimini,
Speaker 1: I'm done, man, I've to taking about fifteen minutes just
Speaker 1: talk true about Nigeria's situation. Funding store eliminate. If you
Speaker 1: are invested in Nigeria is there not a risk to
Speaker 1: you that you are buying bonds. You are buying equities
Speaker 1: in an economy where if crude oil price is your
Speaker 1: schools twenty dollars down, you're wiped out. What's your take, Olimedy,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I set you up to that question,
Speaker 1: but yeah, what.
Speaker 2: You didn't help me up.
Speaker 3: I listened to your disposition and you know I can't
Speaker 3: igree this.
Speaker 2: You know your concerns are totally.
Speaker 3: Valid, and you know one of the reasons why I
Speaker 3: really talk about the Polica economy is that we are
Speaker 3: missed a divided society where people sentiments are high and
Speaker 3: can't you beginning just end your business pace? So one
Speaker 3: can't argue with many of the pointers are putting there. However,
Speaker 3: you know, the unique situcial in Nigeria is that our
Speaker 3: investments up market is heavily suppressed. So for example, the
Speaker 3: companies you mentioned, if we look at stock apprecition in
Speaker 3: the last six weeks, they will do to will card briefs.
Speaker 3: And the reason is simple, because we're seeing dynamics in
Speaker 3: our market. First of all, the country hundred million has
Speaker 3: a capital market valuation of our pout putting billion dollars
Speaker 3: that's really at some point prevent them to what we
Speaker 3: have in dodge coin. You know, a Dodge corners lots
Speaker 3: of values, so it things that's so cheap calu. And
Speaker 3: that was why the fact that I was even any effects,
Speaker 3: I specified a lot of mindings to there and the.
Speaker 2: Reasons were not perfect.
Speaker 3: First, I looked at it from the short term perspective
Speaker 3: that so many opportunities were pounds in Nigeria.
Speaker 2: I look at the bit of dinner in.
Speaker 3: The short term has helped and trevy bills the years
Speaker 3: coming from treasure bills, you know it's coming down.
Speaker 2: So debate is that if now you're a stock market at.
Speaker 3: This level, despite the police rue as kind of triggered
Speaker 3: local persipation, if we can't get in fpis because the
Speaker 3: problem we have right now is that every stock's like nasty,
Speaker 3: and nasty is the stock that when FPS are in,
Speaker 3: the stock easily.
Speaker 2: Places to one thousand and three to one thousand and five.
Speaker 3: But you know, local perspetionion shows that with the investors
Speaker 3: preferred this penny or stocks that they can easily so
Speaker 3: like banking stock. Yeah, I totally agree with you. If
Speaker 3: it scutside is totally for me.
Speaker 1: I what did.
Speaker 3: I find very funny to be with you. And I
Speaker 3: try not to be political because you know I'm not
Speaker 3: a member of the Doing Party and your supported Doing Party.
Speaker 3: But you see, Calu, the mistic we had whether we.
Speaker 2: Want to give a president with the credit for dango
Speaker 2: tevi fire.
Speaker 3: We could see that this present physical party, there have
Speaker 3: been a downtown.
Speaker 2: In fiscal discipline.
Speaker 3: And you know, I've been yet different arguments that we.
Speaker 2: Are coming from an aware corruption.
Speaker 3: Yeah there corruption, nobody's just putting that about the inefficiency
Speaker 3: of our institutions has really shown and.
Speaker 2: The fact that we are not united.
Speaker 3: You know, this is the first time in the world
Speaker 3: where you see sexualizing really going high. I remember one
Speaker 3: of the things that made me so happy about night
Speaker 3: night the election wherever that came to power.
Speaker 2: You saw that he won for you could even in
Speaker 2: so you said the unity and till today, if you
Speaker 2: asked me, some of the ministers I can actually pay.
Speaker 2: For example, it's one of my favorite ministers.
Speaker 3: And because what she did in the derivational ministry at
Speaker 3: that time, his transpit to waters the skirm was doing
Speaker 3: right now, so you see there's unity in that space
Speaker 3: because right now, you know people.
Speaker 2: Judge your comments by your name.
Speaker 3: People judge your comments by your people judge your commenting.
Speaker 2: So we really need a system.
Speaker 3: Where efficiency in nationalism we really take good. But as said,
Speaker 3: all those things, I'm better on Ndia businessmen, and you know,
Speaker 3: I think so far has worked. All the things you
Speaker 3: said there are long term risk.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. You may have mentioned that
Speaker 1: Nigerants are buying the Pennys stalks and the fbis are
Speaker 1: buying maybe the next the big one stocks. Are we
Speaker 1: buying pedy stalks because that's what we can afford? Is
Speaker 1: it that the Nigeren investor is so consumption poor that
Speaker 1: we look at penny stalks the insurance guys as the
Speaker 1: way to invest because we just can afford them, not
Speaker 1: because they are the best in terms of return. Is
Speaker 1: that what's going on just.
Speaker 3: Totally right, And that's part of the picture. So look,
Speaker 3: you have to understand beaver, the beaver culture of natial
Speaker 3: So these.
Speaker 2: Talks usually they are not very higd to be.
Speaker 3: Honest, Like someone was talking about the gagle all my
Speaker 3: timeline and the fact that he couldn't sell out. So
Speaker 3: some sometimes the beaver patterns of some of these talks
Speaker 3: also is the problem, and people don't know how to
Speaker 3: real we did some of these talks talks. Then other
Speaker 3: thing is that, like you said, this the book comes
Speaker 3: very weiglu And there was a time there was a
Speaker 3: time when then mentioned brookers like public Carnlestone, because I
Speaker 3: use all this brookers and.
Speaker 2: I use that this five. And the reason why I
Speaker 2: use this five is that I tried.
Speaker 3: To understand the other book that tried to see price efficiency.
Speaker 2: I tried to see the charactersis of that market. So
Speaker 2: there was a time car we want to open our
Speaker 2: account with these guys. You must have been any more
Speaker 2: of one there.
Speaker 3: Now that barrier has gone gone off because a lot
Speaker 3: of people can't really invest with didn't we want and
Speaker 3: one more particle? You can't do the two or nothing
Speaker 3: in your profer in today's market.
Speaker 2: So the truth of the matter is how many people
Speaker 2: have fifty one the investment account? How many people have whatever?
Speaker 3: If you look at if you look at people making
Speaker 3: the world in the stock market, can last year we
Speaker 3: had to intu tree on the year.
Speaker 2: Before we had a level trion, less than two dozen
Speaker 2: people took half of that world. You know, less than
Speaker 2: a dozen people took half of that world. If you
Speaker 2: take too tanqulity to add the passion phones had their
Speaker 2: few fpis, the remaining is just us capping.
Speaker 3: So we're very poor Comfrey in a real loud system,
Speaker 3: and we forget to realize that world is grown by equity.
Speaker 2: And if we don't really get that's really right, so
Speaker 2: to say, can't believe it. So yes, you're totally right.
Speaker 2: Disposable commit putally high and so.
Speaker 3: We total low based on high food information and also
Speaker 3: that are missed in our culture, economy culture way player
Speaker 3: likesrepreneurs or someone like is more popular than you know, Cargo.
Speaker 2: You're coming from an advanced markets you a lot.
Speaker 3: Almost all Americans know the most you know, almost all
Speaker 3: Americans know p gay almost.
Speaker 2: But it's not the same in Nigier. You know, I
Speaker 2: try to do this with so young people in Niger
Speaker 2: and asked, you know, it was like, what's that? What's that?
Speaker 2: They don't know? What they give you?
Speaker 3: They can live with these bodies, and so we have
Speaker 3: the cultural problem, Cargo.
Speaker 2: So it's a lot thing.
Speaker 3: And I told someone yesterdacause I said, for at this car,
Speaker 3: you've been consisted.
Speaker 2: For years on space financial matters. How many people come
Speaker 2: to this space. How many people come because people say
Speaker 2: there's noway? But you we we do a lot on
Speaker 2: our ways. How many book? But trust me, when you.
Speaker 3: Have social distractions, comments, the insults, politic jungles, dragons.
Speaker 2: You see thousands of people. So we need to also
Speaker 2: wake up culturally. We have that problem.
Speaker 1: I see I don't great call. Let me hold to
Speaker 1: bring someone else in. But let me just leave you
Speaker 1: guys in numbers? Why does the important for us? Right?
Speaker 1: So the budget that presenting presented to the National Assembly
Speaker 1: was was let me get the exact number was forty
Speaker 1: nine trillion, right, forty nine trillion. Now, he then says
Speaker 1: that he had found savings of four point four trillion.
Speaker 1: Four point four trillion, So what he was he's saying
Speaker 1: is that from the increasing revenues, he had already caught
Speaker 1: ten percent of the budget deficit if he had not
Speaker 1: increased it. So his initial budget was about forty nine trillion.
Speaker 1: Then he found four point four trillion from the fire
Speaker 1: arress from customs and one point eightchian from somewhere, so
Speaker 1: four point four trillion. So if he had simply put
Speaker 1: the four point four trillion back into the budget, his
Speaker 1: budget deficit, which was planned at about three point eight
Speaker 1: nine of GDP would have gone down. He was going
Speaker 1: to borrow thirteen trillion so this year he was going
Speaker 1: to borrow tetting trillion, but he found four point four trillion.
Speaker 1: So if you had taken his four point four trillion,
Speaker 1: he would not have borrowed tetting. He would have borrowed
Speaker 1: far less than that. But what did he do. He
Speaker 1: simply added the four point four into the economy into
Speaker 1: the budget, then simply increased the budget to fifty four trillion.
Speaker 1: This is the point we're making. So the four point
Speaker 1: four trillion savings that actually have been saving to Nigeria,
Speaker 1: which means less taxes on you listening, had just gone
Speaker 1: back into the wind, and now we're going to pay
Speaker 1: more deficits, which means more taxes for you. Let me
Speaker 1: bring it asa Osasu. How are you doing so or
Speaker 1: by you wanna hello?
Speaker 2: Cally?
Speaker 1: I'm doing very well, sir, very well. Yeah, what's your
Speaker 1: take on what's going on? I mean, are you? I
Speaker 1: don't want to make just Fello goment, but Nigeria really
Speaker 1: has got the spending problem. It's not revenues because we've
Speaker 1: gotten the revenues four point four trillion extra revenues. But
Speaker 1: what did we do with double the spending? So what's
Speaker 1: your except.
Speaker 2: It's not rocket science. I know.
Speaker 3: I keep on saying this all the time, But in
Speaker 3: order to resolve our economic issues, we can't do it
Speaker 3: without solving the political issues. Because why do we have
Speaker 3: a spending problem. We have a spending problem because.
Speaker 2: Those who are responsible for our budgets inflate our budgets.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure in the last few weeks you
Speaker 3: would have read I mean, anyone who reads the budget,
Speaker 3: who follows what budget does and what yeah he does, would.
Speaker 2: Just your mouth will just fall to the.
Speaker 3: Floor with what is contained in the budgets or some
Speaker 3: organizations things that are totally unrelated to what they are doing,
Speaker 3: you know, amounts if that are just incredulous.
Speaker 2: All these things that are put there.
Speaker 3: And as you pointed out, these things are being done
Speaker 3: year after year after year.
Speaker 2: I mean, you live in the US.
Speaker 3: The vice president of the country lives at the observatory.
Speaker 3: They maintained the building year after year after year.
Speaker 2: So anyone who is think who.
Speaker 3: Goes into the building, just as Jdvans went in there
Speaker 3: after Kamala Harris had to leave is never going to
Speaker 3: meet the building in a state of disrepair because.
Speaker 2: It's maintained all the time. And the same thing applies
Speaker 2: to the VP's residence in Nigeria. They maintain it year
Speaker 2: after year after year. Is not neglected. It's never left
Speaker 2: two rods. So when they.
Speaker 3: Now tell us that they spent twenty one billion on
Speaker 3: having to renovative what exactly were they doing when somebody
Speaker 3: has been living there for the last eight years and
Speaker 3: they have to maintain it to make sure.
Speaker 2: That of good standards.
Speaker 3: So we have to deal with the issue of our
Speaker 3: National Assembly. We cannot solve the problem of spending regarding
Speaker 3: our national budgets if we don't deal with the National Assembly.
Speaker 2: We cannot deal with the.
Speaker 3: Problem of spending if our central bank is not responsible
Speaker 3: in the way it manages the monetary policy.
Speaker 2: Our central bank governor technically.
Speaker 3: Is supposed to be independent, is supposed to be able
Speaker 3: to take decisions that are totally independent of the political class.
Speaker 2: But we know in Nigeria that's not the case a central.
Speaker 3: Bank governor that pieces of the president will be fired.
Speaker 3: So where is the financial independence for the central bank
Speaker 3: to act properly? There is no So we need to
Speaker 3: deal with these problems because you you went on a
Speaker 3: fifteen minute ramp justify ramps about the problems we're having.
Speaker 3: If we don't have an inflow of investment but we're
Speaker 3: having an outflow.
Speaker 2: That's a message. It is telling.
Speaker 3: Us that the rest of the world does not have
Speaker 3: confidence in the management of the economy, It does not
Speaker 3: have confidence in the stability of the local currency to
Speaker 3: secure its investment.
Speaker 2: So in order not.
Speaker 3: To putting good money after bad they pull out.
Speaker 2: We need to change these things.
Speaker 1: Can you be more? Can you be more? When you
Speaker 1: say focus on National Assembly? What do you have in mind?
Speaker 1: What can we do for a guy listening? Is there
Speaker 1: anything someone listening can do on his own today? Is
Speaker 1: it just to call it out public? But it publicizes
Speaker 1: things Like you said, what can a guy listening do
Speaker 1: if F'm in America and now there's a lot of
Speaker 1: Is there a senate community that I can go and
Speaker 1: report to?
Speaker 4: But you see, it is the National Assembly themselves at
Speaker 4: complicit in this. I was just reading a couple of
Speaker 4: days ago that some of the Nigerian universities were complaining
Speaker 4: that the National Assembly members were asking them for a
Speaker 4: cut of their budget in order for them to approve
Speaker 4: their budget and that if they don't give them the money,
Speaker 4: they're not going to approve it.
Speaker 2: And it is the same people you're now going to.
Speaker 3: Report the issues that we're talking about when they are
Speaker 3: the ones who are accomplish it in the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I think it is important that as Nigerians, we all
Speaker 3: really talk about this in the in every public space
Speaker 3: we have.
Speaker 2: It's important that you know, those who are.
Speaker 3: In office realize that the Nigerian people know what they
Speaker 3: are doing and that they are fed up of it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I wish I could tell you Calu that
Speaker 3: there is a solution in practical so I mean if
Speaker 3: we had you know, I don't want to talk too
Speaker 3: much about Tullubu today because we'll be going into another match.
Speaker 2: But we have to be honest.
Speaker 3: That if we want physical discipline, the leader of the
Speaker 3: country must be physically disciplined. He himself must show her
Speaker 3: that there there is the need to cut down on costs,
Speaker 3: and not only that, that every penny that is being
Speaker 3: spent has to be justified and that if you are
Speaker 3: borrowing more money taking more laws that these loans there
Speaker 3: must be a correlation between the loans and a level
Speaker 3: of economic activity that will make it worthwhile for Nigeria
Speaker 3: to take those looks and pay back those loads and
Speaker 3: bring other productivity into the economy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not you're right. You're you're right. When
Speaker 1: you when you you you save four point four trillion,
Speaker 1: you want to borrow thirteen trillion? You know, a child
Speaker 1: will tell you wow. So that means if I have
Speaker 1: four point four trillion and I want to borrow that
Speaker 1: in trillion, I simply take the four point four and
Speaker 1: pay all the thirteen trillion, reducing my borrowing. But no,
Speaker 1: they put they simply increase their spending. So when I
Speaker 1: tweet Nigeria has a spending problem, this is what I mean.
Speaker 1: This is what I mean. God has given the four
Speaker 1: point four trillion, but instead of cutting.
Speaker 3: Something earlier, look, Dango Dangote has set up a refinery
Speaker 3: which in one field soup should solve Nigeria's problems concerning petrol.
Speaker 2: True, Okay, Now, a serious.
Speaker 3: Government knew for the and I'm not gonna I think government.
Speaker 3: I'm not just talking about the present government. I'm talking
Speaker 3: of the government as a continuum. It knew for the
Speaker 3: last five or six years that this refinery was.
Speaker 2: Going to come on street.
Speaker 3: They knew any sensible government would have said, okay, this
Speaker 3: refinery would need six hundred and fifty thousand barrels of
Speaker 3: oil the day in order to meet its optimum production targets.
Speaker 3: How much of that can we afford to give them?
Speaker 2: Do we give them all of it? Or do how
Speaker 2: much of.
Speaker 3: The refinery would have been in a position to plan properly.
Speaker 3: But you can see what is going on at the
Speaker 3: moment for them to even get it from the refined
Speaker 3: from the oil companies, they were demanded for a six
Speaker 3: dollars premium on our own crew to give it to
Speaker 3: him before they announce started talking of okay, we are
Speaker 3: going to denominate details in Neira and all of that,
Speaker 3: and stillly not getting it. The same government decided years ago, okay,
Speaker 3: we will take a twenty percent stick in the refinery.
Speaker 3: You take a twenty percent stake in the refinery. That
Speaker 3: will be at world class refinery that can export refined
Speaker 3: products all over the world.
Speaker 2: Would the Nigerian pleasury.
Speaker 3: Not be receiving annual dividends from the refinery after putting
Speaker 3: in twenty but instead of them paying for the twenty
Speaker 3: percent they didn't. They still left it at seven point five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you explain It's it's a mess. I
Speaker 1: mean the bigger point you raised it. I just want
Speaker 1: to move on to to vio Evah. Listen, the Nigeran
Speaker 1: goverment knew, like you said five years ago that Dangot
Speaker 1: the final will come on stream, but yet they kept
Speaker 1: on taking the crude oil from n NPC to borrow.
Speaker 1: So most of the crew that are located to NNPC
Speaker 1: has been tied up in dollar borrowing. So that's why
Speaker 1: that Dangota cannot get crude oil to solve the naira,
Speaker 1: to solve a bit of inflation, to solve a bit
Speaker 1: of the should we say the deficit Nigeria has today.
Speaker 1: You simply tell Dangotte to pay for Nigeria and crude
Speaker 1: in dollars not naira dollars. You give Dangote the crude
Speaker 1: in dollars only they give them recruiting dollars. Dangote will
Speaker 1: refine that crude and sell to Niger's in naira. How
Speaker 1: would he pay back his crude oil? He can really
Speaker 1: finding to buy product and export and get his naira
Speaker 1: to pay back an NPC he should be playing on
Speaker 1: NIRA for anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just bringing a few nuggets before the next speaker.
Speaker 3: So first of all, we since start bleating the NARRE
Speaker 3: because we are more reliant on FPIS.
Speaker 2: You know, we usually stipid.
Speaker 3: We could, but it is that little data should like
Speaker 3: most invert those that are coming to are investing because
Speaker 3: of our treasury bills. That is not sustainable, but that
Speaker 3: that's on the shot term. And also if you look
Speaker 3: at the fact that the oil price data shows that
Speaker 3: all inputs in Nigeria has dropped but is a fifth
Speaker 3: in the last three months, that's positive for FX conty.
Speaker 2: Because if you look at data, most of.
Speaker 3: Our effects applications from the import side is on patrol.
Speaker 3: So relatively danqulty is not positive short, mid, long term.
Speaker 3: But one of the things this government has done that
Speaker 3: how we look at it from in market perspective side,
Speaker 3: is that the reason why they had no choice then
Speaker 3: was that they could not take those reforms that me
Speaker 3: and you were shouting on them. The effex was subsidized.
Speaker 3: The glow declaring for that. People have forgotten that we
Speaker 3: were subsidizing efforts when.
Speaker 2: We're not't producing anything.
Speaker 3: There was a time cibin was not getting any effects,
Speaker 3: so we most prayer for that first. You know, when
Speaker 3: you want to you see the issue about economies that
Speaker 3: this continunity doesn't work in a solution.
Speaker 2: If you waste money, you will have the bad retirement.
Speaker 2: That's our life is.
Speaker 3: That's why people that enjoyed their retirement each the mad
Speaker 3: sacrifices sae. They put their fronts in different things investment.
Speaker 3: But we didn't do that. So that's the price we're
Speaker 3: pelling now.
Speaker 5: Okay, sefore you go, let me go ahead. The fair
Speaker 5: government put The problem I have with this budget. The
Speaker 5: problem have with this project is that, yeah, last year,
Speaker 5: if you look at the nine.
Speaker 3: Months they released from the ones released and you look
Speaker 3: at the Manaumal office, you see that they're setting it
Speaker 3: with implementation. The feder anisty have done better than to know.
Speaker 3: But however, we've seen that budget party. We've seen that
Speaker 3: fiscal monitoring from the National Assembly has been arable. You know,
Speaker 3: budget idea, you just so many data reports that shows
Speaker 3: that you're saying your projet in school budget on the
Speaker 3: pillow for work.
Speaker 2: You see the space center saying you won't do olive.
Speaker 1: The olive you're not saying it. Well, this school will
Speaker 1: set they want five billion nothing, samely will give them
Speaker 1: one hundred billion. That's what's happening in Nigeria. Misture of fisheries.
Speaker 1: I think it's fisheries that they always go to fisheres
Speaker 1: we say we want two billion, they will give them
Speaker 1: two hundred and forty billion. That's what's going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's where they get the cut from.
Speaker 1: Exactly, That's what they get exactly. That's what's going on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what's happening. Let me get Vivian has dropped off.
Speaker 1: I was gonna call and let's get some year limited
Speaker 1: and you get this hangle some year you've got the floor.
Speaker 1: I don't know where he is at. Let me get tired.
Speaker 6: A big fan of your tweets on economia and like
Speaker 6: thank your expenses now. So, like, I think this is
Speaker 6: a This is probably never gonna happen for Nigeria because
Speaker 6: you can see how difficult it was for DO to
Speaker 6: even kickoff, and how heavy the democratic kicking against it,
Speaker 6: because the is going to expose a lot of information
Speaker 6: which you know they've just had going over the year.
Speaker 6: So I think the one person that they don't try
Speaker 6: to maintain a semblance of transparency was impoty right when
Speaker 6: it started, same good treasury account, but we all know
Speaker 6: how that's ended up. Like it started up like this
Speaker 6: was a good measure he was trying to implement, but
Speaker 6: at the end of the day, he just seemed like
Speaker 6: every other previous day that we've had, still the same corruption,
Speaker 6: still the same going in circles and back to square ones.
Speaker 6: If transparency isn't sort of that from the local areas,
Speaker 6: like coming back from local government, state and then to
Speaker 6: the presidency and like the whole contrast whole, and then then.
Speaker 2: You see how we are so not there, we are
Speaker 2: so not there.
Speaker 6: It's easy for them to track this payment because there's
Speaker 6: always a pay per trail in the expenditure from the
Speaker 6: treasury asking for this amount. They can always that it
Speaker 6: can't come even after four administrations, and they can still
Speaker 6: track the paypa tray of the money. It's just the
Speaker 6: rationale for spending it. So it's like things that we
Speaker 6: should think him to be honest, I don't think we
Speaker 6: I don't think the sixes don't even want it because
Speaker 6: they don't even ask for It's.
Speaker 2: Like they don't you don't really care.
Speaker 1: It might shock people. But I've been really following this
Speaker 1: whole doge stingy in America. The Nigerian public finances, the
Speaker 1: way we account for public finances in Nigeria, honestly, it
Speaker 1: looks like it's better than what the Americans are doing.
Speaker 1: Let me give you an example. Once the Americans approve
Speaker 1: an appropriation, then it must be paid, even if the
Speaker 1: person is dead or the program has stopped. So once
Speaker 1: it's appropriated, they say twelve billion is going to appropriated
Speaker 1: for Abia's state and the state of Abia is no
Speaker 1: longer in existence or the stead of Abia is, it
Speaker 1: must be paid number one, number two. They have no vouture.
Speaker 1: There's no number on a vouture. So what I mean
Speaker 1: is this, if you appropriate money for Department of Energy
Speaker 1: for a project, that money money is giving out, but
Speaker 1: there's no tracking number. You know how TSA. If you
Speaker 1: go and get the conduct with the government, they'll tell
Speaker 1: you it is this styill put the budget number I
Speaker 1: E one five five. They link that appropriation back to
Speaker 1: the line item. You know why you pick Nigerian budgets.
Speaker 1: You see line items money for head office computer. That
Speaker 1: line item is what shows up on your contract that's
Speaker 1: how budgets. It is able to say, okay, we are
Speaker 1: tracking this line item and we could not find it,
Speaker 1: don't have it. In America, they don't what so once
Speaker 1: it's appropriated. That's the fight you are seeing is between
Speaker 1: there's something in America called impoundment. Impoundment before Nixon, when
Speaker 1: Congress appropriates, just like in Nigeria, Congress would appropriate, then
Speaker 1: the president will spend. So Congress will pass the budget
Speaker 1: just like sat in Nigeria. Then the president which is
Speaker 1: the executive, will spend. So like in Nigeria, Congress naturally
Speaker 1: the term they say we're going to build legos to
Speaker 1: Calabar Road, they appropriate money, but it is left to
Speaker 1: the president to then go and spend that money on
Speaker 1: the road. Not in America. In America they have what
Speaker 1: to call impoundment, where once Congress appropriates that money, even
Speaker 1: the president cannot stop it. All the president can do
Speaker 1: to say he will not do it, but the money
Speaker 1: will go out. So the money will go out to
Speaker 1: us beggar or where the president likes this or not,
Speaker 1: then beggar will just wait for the plans to come.
Speaker 1: That's the fight you are seeing, really that these guys
Speaker 1: are going against. So what's coming back to your to
Speaker 1: the issue about the way the whole budget it really is.
Speaker 1: It's just it doesn't make any sense to me that
Speaker 1: Nigeria has better controls, but the politics and the people
Speaker 1: seem to be where we have a problem with. Where
Speaker 1: the Americans seem to have very very lacked controls, but
Speaker 1: they are the the people on the process seem to
Speaker 1: come in there. But in our own case, we have
Speaker 1: TSA or culture. Well I did I f f ID,
Speaker 1: so every every employee in Nigeria today has a number
Speaker 1: attached to your organization. That's what US was fighting against.
Speaker 1: So they can say if you are Calu, you work
Speaker 1: a mistery of Finance, then they know you cannot work
Speaker 1: for any other government agency. That's the whole ippis they
Speaker 1: don't have in America. So that's why it's all the US.
Speaker 1: They don't have it. So it's amazing how we have
Speaker 1: these things on paper but we don't use it and
Speaker 1: Americans don't even have it. Were we seem to be
Speaker 1: more advanced in terms of our controls, but we just
Speaker 1: don't do it. That's why we I don't know so
Speaker 1: legally legally, what the National Assembly has done to increase
Speaker 1: the budgets of saying, mistery of Faciales from one billion
Speaker 1: to one hundred billion is legal, but it's wrong in
Speaker 1: a way, but it's legal. That's the problem. I haven't
Speaker 1: Nigia that is illegal, but it's all wrong. Twenty one
Speaker 1: billion for the VP's home is not illegal. It has
Speaker 1: passed most but it's wrong. Samia, let me get Anthony
Speaker 1: in here.
Speaker 7: Yeah, callu, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak.
Speaker 2: I'd like to look at.
Speaker 7: This from a different perspective, Samyah, I see you, my brother,
Speaker 7: I see you. I want to use a top down approach.
Speaker 7: I think the problem Nigeria.
Speaker 2: Has is the system of government.
Speaker 7: Now, I'm glad that we've been trying to juxtapose Nigeria's
Speaker 7: system versus the American system. We all know how the
Speaker 7: presidential system of government is very very expensive. The federal,
Speaker 7: the state and the local government. Nigeria needs to go
Speaker 7: back to the parliamentary system of government completely. We need
Speaker 7: to put we need to put power back in the
Speaker 7: hands of the people where people become accountable and are
Speaker 7: easily more easily removed from office when they do not
Speaker 7: perform their duties.
Speaker 2: And they are not accountable. This is going to take
Speaker 2: a very It's going to take a.
Speaker 7: Huge effort, obviously, because there's so much corruption.
Speaker 2: As we all know that the.
Speaker 7: Leadership and accountability and lack of rule of law are
Speaker 7: the problems of Nigeria. So until we go and change
Speaker 7: that system of government, I don't see how we're going
Speaker 7: to be able to implement change in Nigeria as regards accountability.
Speaker 8: Because I'll give you an example.
Speaker 7: We all see the massive pushback against Doge and against
Speaker 7: Elon Musk to be specific. In the United States of America,
Speaker 7: nobody likes change.
Speaker 2: Even in any organization. Change management is one of.
Speaker 7: The most difficult things amongst executives.
Speaker 2: Nobody likes change. So for us to be thinking that things.
Speaker 7: Are going to change in Nigeria and everything, it's going
Speaker 7: to take a gun to one efforts.
Speaker 2: So I don't see anything changing very very soon.
Speaker 7: Especially because it's so hard to hold these leaders accountable.
Speaker 2: So that's my submission.
Speaker 1: Thank you very I mean, you make that point so
Speaker 1: so simply, and you make it very very quickly. But
Speaker 1: it's a major point. This presidential system we run is
Speaker 1: too expensive. When I can't afford apprentical system before we
Speaker 1: used to have the parliamentary system. You forget to make
Speaker 1: this point that in a parliamentary system, the minister has
Speaker 1: to be elected. So if we had to the six States,
Speaker 1: then you have to be elected and then when you're elected,
Speaker 1: become a minister. So there's no there's no executive in quote,
Speaker 1: there's the elected folks become the ministers. So obviously you
Speaker 1: cut off one complete layer of government away. And then
Speaker 1: of course if you're a minister of state and you're
Speaker 1: representing on Hafia and then you go there, you do
Speaker 1: you make, you start to do nonsense, then I will
Speaker 1: call you back. So there's this accountability not to the party,
Speaker 1: not even to your try, but to your own individual constituency.
Speaker 1: You know where you come from. So you know that, listener,
Speaker 1: I have to perform. I can't go there. You know
Speaker 1: this presential system is too expensive. You have the president,
Speaker 1: national Assembly, then state governors, state Assembly, then local government
Speaker 1: also has local assembly on on which money Now, these
Speaker 1: same oiline guys are already saying we are borrowing. Nigeria
Speaker 1: is the only nation on earth that the citizens subsidized
Speaker 1: their oil company. We subsidize NNPC without tax money and
Speaker 1: episode subsidized us. That subsidy is a very very impressive
Speaker 1: crafted world to make you believe that fuel would have
Speaker 1: been expensive for NNPC reduced the cost. No fuel is
Speaker 1: expensive because NNPCE is the one refining the oil. If
Speaker 1: there was no NNPC today, your oil would be cheaper
Speaker 1: because that company that would have repaid an NPC would
Speaker 1: have built a finary twenty years ago. I would have
Speaker 1: maintained to refinanced still today. Can you imagine Nigerian bank
Speaker 1: today if Nigerian banks ran refineries, yes, they will charge
Speaker 1: you coot, but can you imagine a GM bank not
Speaker 1: investing in their refinery quote unquote It's not possible. Let
Speaker 1: me not talking abou because ATMs are there. But you
Speaker 1: get the point I'm making that NNPC is to go anything.
Speaker 1: There's nothing with n in Nigeria is working, NFA and NPC.
Speaker 1: Anything that has that N in front of it, that
Speaker 1: means that the government owns it doesn't work. Nigeral infinitial
Speaker 1: gas has escaped because it's own. No, it's not all
Speaker 1: niger it's own forty nine Nigeria. It's not majority. Was
Speaker 1: Nigeria's tech majority control. I'm not another abuse google it.
Speaker 1: There's not Nigerian Airways Shipping Line NFA anything. You put
Speaker 1: that air in front, not because any is, but it's
Speaker 1: the government control. They're coming there, they start to spend.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, but good points.
Speaker 2: Us. When you cannot run an.
Speaker 3: Economic concern like a political organization, you cannot interfere on
Speaker 3: issues of accountability and good management.
Speaker 1: In countries where the.
Speaker 3: Politicians understand that the economic management is key, they intervene
Speaker 3: only when it is necessary. They don't intervene because they
Speaker 3: want their cronies to get certain favors from the system.
Speaker 2: In this country, we have a situation where.
Speaker 1: That is the case.
Speaker 3: So when we change that, then we'll begin to see
Speaker 3: different results even from our public institutions, because public institutions
Speaker 3: that provide an economic service can work. It's just that
Speaker 3: if you have them, you must run them on the
Speaker 3: right principles.
Speaker 2: You can run them as a as a means of
Speaker 2: patronage to your political friends. That's just all I wanted
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear and again, I don't think Nigeria.
Speaker 1: I don't think. Let me streat myself, so I don't
Speaker 1: see Nigeria's I don't think I care who runs an
Speaker 1: NPC as long as there's cheap fuel. Dan Gotta today
Speaker 1: we say it's a monopolist. We say before dan Gotta
Speaker 1: built his refinery, NPC had issued forty four licenses for refineries.
Speaker 1: Before dangottested to build, his people had the final license,
Speaker 1: no one built. It's the same with cements. Oh, Dangote
Speaker 1: has monopilied cement. Before I was in this country, when
Speaker 1: a passenger to turn to and build cement factories, nobody
Speaker 1: built than Gotta built. So Nigeria just want the country
Speaker 1: to work for everybody. If you don't want to, if
Speaker 1: you if you are close to the government and you
Speaker 1: steal money, invest in Nigeria, you know it's it's mind
Speaker 1: blowing you. You know you go to Indonesia. Is the
Speaker 1: exact same to Indonesia as in Nigeria. They had a
Speaker 1: military president that was a sorry to Indonesians. The Soharo
Speaker 1: family returned billions, but the same Soharato family invested in
Speaker 1: an Indonesian car built infrastructure all across Indonesia that today
Speaker 1: the country has moved is riding on the same. We
Speaker 1: have a huge population, the same with Indonesia. We have
Speaker 1: a diverse religious and political system. Just like Indonesia. We
Speaker 1: have crude oil, just like Indonesia. We have palm oil,
Speaker 1: just like Indonesia. There's really little different in Nigia and Indonesia,
Speaker 1: but this look at their economy and the economy today.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, mint m I ant that
Speaker 1: Mexico Indonesia. That was Nigeria. And there was the tea
Speaker 1: who was what was tea? What was tea? M I
Speaker 1: ant what was ta? I forget what tea was? Who
Speaker 1: knows what he was? Mexico Indonesia night Turkey was Turkey.
Speaker 1: Now we've dropped off, We've dropped off. Those countries have
Speaker 1: moved on and we've dropped off. So good point elarger,
Speaker 1: Let's get the larger sultan.
Speaker 9: Good living in Carlo, goodivning, lumiadiving.
Speaker 2: I'm enjoying the conversation so far. I just want to
Speaker 2: speak about the cultural.
Speaker 10: The cultural thing about Nigerians that they see political offices.
Speaker 2: As a as a point to go and steal public fronts.
Speaker 10: In places in very very small societies, not very very
Speaker 10: small units of government like maybe and.
Speaker 2: The hospital institutions.
Speaker 10: You see, everybody's striving on how to steal and lisk
Speaker 10: the resources. So because Nigerians themselves, they even the ones
Speaker 10: in power they are choosing or selected from in the
Speaker 10: midst of Nigerians generally, So an average Nigerian have this
Speaker 10: thing that whenever I have as to fund that belongs
Speaker 10: to the government, lets miss tale everything and is accepted
Speaker 10: by the Nigerians society. So when when these things look
Speaker 10: like the norm of about eighty five percent of Nigerians,
Speaker 10: where you have access to government fund, you wasted. Then
Speaker 10: how how do we begin to cult the spending problem?
Speaker 10: I've always advocated, I've always I've always advocated for more
Speaker 10: consequences for these actions.
Speaker 2: If we have it kind of systems.
Speaker 10: That that punish wistfulness in government, then we can start
Speaker 10: talking about how to curtail the spending problem of most
Speaker 10: Nigerians aware I live in communities here. If you have
Speaker 10: if your budget, if you have exceeded what you need,
Speaker 10: what you your your budget, I.
Speaker 2: Mean money are located for you for the year, If you.
Speaker 10: Have completed all your projects, you are always looking for
Speaker 10: how do I return this money because you cannot take it,
Speaker 10: it does not belong to you. But back home, they
Speaker 10: would not even do the project, They would steal the
Speaker 10: money and delay the project. So every Nigerian, even as
Speaker 10: far perk as when we're in student you know government
Speaker 10: back in those days when you umediately become a student, you.
Speaker 2: Know government leader of a university.
Speaker 10: Your peers are expecting you to do large amounts of
Speaker 10: celebrations for them, despite the fact that it's its student money.
Speaker 10: So an average Nigeria believes that government's money is to
Speaker 10: be wasted is to buy build houses. Your relatives start
Speaker 10: calling you to do lots of things for them.
Speaker 2: So the cultural thing of.
Speaker 10: Wastefulness it identifies with a lot of Nigerians. That is
Speaker 10: why you see them make money alreadily and become broke
Speaker 10: in a certain number of days. So if there were
Speaker 10: consequences to we think government fronts, if they were, if
Speaker 10: these people do not keep getting.
Speaker 2: Away with what the loot or how they are.
Speaker 10: Wasteful wasting resources, maybe we can have a better chance
Speaker 10: of curtailing the the spending problem, where you know you
Speaker 10: account for every every double that you spend. There's there's
Speaker 10: the clending still government houses. When the government comes into day,
Speaker 10: he will renovate the building. When another governor comes in today,
Speaker 10: he will do something something similar A similar project. That
Speaker 10: is why they approved projects and a lot of time,
Speaker 10: so they don't see it as grimed. They see that
Speaker 10: when you get away from government, you can negotiate and say, oh,
Speaker 10: this is the amount as I have stolen, or I
Speaker 10: can pay back twenty five percent and I'll keep the rest.
Speaker 10: So and then as long as they keep getting away
Speaker 10: with that, every and average engenera will see it as
Speaker 10: and avenue to go as well as still a whisk
Speaker 10: of me resources.
Speaker 1: Thank you, I think maybe good points again the cultural
Speaker 1: outside that you brought up. You know, once someone enters
Speaker 1: the government, he goes to his church, he does thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: Nobody ask any question. He goes from his biq to
Speaker 1: a ten bedroom massed and his ladier say, oh, a
Speaker 1: charge a price to go there and bless the house.
Speaker 1: His kids all move abroad. We say wow, his kids
Speaker 1: will go on Instagram. Wow, I want to be like
Speaker 1: these guys are enjoying. Nobody ask any questions. In Nigeria,
Speaker 1: a gates man, Your gatesman can become a governor in
Speaker 1: two years. Your gates man and people will say, wow,
Speaker 1: he was you know, he was a he was in
Speaker 1: the trenches.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 1: Nobody ask any question. So you make a good, great point.
Speaker 1: Really make it a good point that you know, we
Speaker 1: have to ask questions, we have to hold people to account.
Speaker 1: You know, where's this money coming from? It's my money,
Speaker 1: you know, someone's kids. You know, I was in the UK,
Speaker 1: ones I went. I was in UK university to visit
Speaker 1: someone and a governor. I won't cause the government. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be so the governor came to the
Speaker 1: university that night and this guy was sharing one hundred
Speaker 1: pound notes to everyone in this in the in the dormitory,
Speaker 1: one hundred pound note was giving them, you know, to
Speaker 1: everyone there. Yeah, in the UK, I can give you
Speaker 1: the town, but I don't know not governor. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone was wow. It was giving. They had not seen
Speaker 1: that morning their life before he was doing it. And
Speaker 1: that many examples go on social media. You say kids
Speaker 1: going to buy friendy Gucci with your own money, and
Speaker 1: everybody's like, wow, these kids are enjoying. It's your money.
Speaker 1: You can't oppress me with my money. But that's when
Speaker 1: I jump potitions are doing. They're a pressing you with
Speaker 1: your own money, and then you praise them. I won't
Speaker 1: have it when I want to have a private jet
Speaker 1: like this guy. You know, it's it's crazy. Uh, mister Vessie,
Speaker 1: how are you doing?
Speaker 2: Sir?
Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, Thank you, mister Vessie. You've got the floor. Anthony,
Speaker 1: Please go ahead, Anthony. I hope you guys can hear me. Anthony,
Speaker 1: you can, uh Ve says you've got the floor. Please
Speaker 1: go ahead. What if you can hear me? Olive? They
Speaker 1: let me bring it back to them, to the market,
Speaker 1: back to just just back to this Bodet deficit. So
Speaker 1: if we're going to borrow thirteen trillion, what does that
Speaker 1: do to interest rate in Nigiera. It's gonna go up,
Speaker 1: it's gonna come down because the market adn't knows that
Speaker 1: we're going to have to come and borrow and we're
Speaker 1: going to borrow more. As you said, the dollar has
Speaker 1: sort of stabilized. Does that push rates up a bit?
Speaker 1: Does it bring raised down the bit? What should I do?
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of time to be honest with you.
Speaker 2: Notice that the CPN.
Speaker 3: Surprisingly postpone the MPC meeting as all the excuse us
Speaker 3: that that is.
Speaker 2: Not ready MBS.
Speaker 3: You know that's disappointing because you know the impact of
Speaker 3: NPC meeting on the capital market and a lot of policy.
Speaker 2: Please take that, use that decision to plan.
Speaker 3: In fact, the headline interestrate really play the crush all
Speaker 3: our monetary instruments, so cal it's very difficult too.
Speaker 2: But I'll say this, I think I think the CPN,
Speaker 2: in my OUNTN opinion this year their.
Speaker 3: Reforms, I've been trying to buy time again for the
Speaker 3: physical side to get things right. The Carlo I don't
Speaker 3: think we are not looking at this that fpis are
Speaker 3: common at the premium. We have to pay them at
Speaker 3: least twenty one percent, you know, because they're bringing their
Speaker 3: money to invest in that the later set, because we
Speaker 3: also have to create an incentive to discourage population. However,
Speaker 3: I think that what would be the saving grace tis
Speaker 3: if down put it at least definitely, that would put
Speaker 3: it what we saw in Saudia Arco in Saudia Arabia,
Speaker 3: that that would put a positive inflow of capital into
Speaker 3: a capital market. In addition, I also see the fact
Speaker 3: that Tudor production is ramping up, you know Zaplat's exomobile deal,
Speaker 3: and the number of a discounts is increasing. Investments in
Speaker 3: that sector is going up. Energy stocks are doing very well.
Speaker 3: The energy policy degree sorry, degrees of approval are not
Speaker 3: like always are saying before.
Speaker 2: So the reforms in the energy sector gives us up.
Speaker 3: But from the poltical angle, you know what cases me
Speaker 3: from the protical side is that many of these things
Speaker 3: are liabilities. And I was so shocked, you know, you
Speaker 3: know when some people I don't know better because of
Speaker 3: inflation has affected the rebel for you to be calling
Speaker 3: for tirty one new stage, you know.
Speaker 2: It fits more magulation.
Speaker 3: In fact, everybody was like stone because you know you
Speaker 3: said it that allsted on in reality can't really stand
Speaker 3: on their own.
Speaker 2: And why I still give.
Speaker 3: Legos some proms, it's because that if you look at it,
Speaker 3: historically many states working legals feeble. Look at them quarterifying
Speaker 3: for example, what's not legals parity. I look at some
Speaker 3: projects it came to legals or because those states they lost.
Speaker 3: So we need a system where efficiency is rewarded. And
Speaker 3: I feel that if our markets are upgraded, cal if
Speaker 3: our markets are greated because we are still downbredd. If
Speaker 3: the stock market is upraided, and that means for investors
Speaker 3: who come in GP more Gan report definitely planning to
Speaker 3: open an asset management officing Legos that would be positive
Speaker 3: to my betty start while taking the risk on Nigeria.
Speaker 3: I see that on those case Genara maybe two thousand
Speaker 3: and two. The best case scenario Gnara at once three.
Speaker 3: But with the stock parking rallying, with the young banks
Speaker 3: meeting profits, any incision is coming strongly.
Speaker 2: You see what the manufacturing sector is doing.
Speaker 3: Definitely, my bet is start, we're going to have the
Speaker 3: positive five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so, let me just ask you again
Speaker 1: on that question. We saw Trump saying that he wants
Speaker 1: to go to Saudi Arabia and it's going to ask
Speaker 1: them to reduce the price of crude. There's also a
Speaker 1: piece deal between Ukraine and Russia in the works. The
Speaker 1: peace is saying that Russia will sort of hold what
Speaker 1: they have, Ukraine will not join me too. But what
Speaker 1: that means is that Russian oil will not be saved
Speaker 1: from Ukraine attacks and Russia will start to pump out
Speaker 1: more oil. So it's that Iran. It's where Trump wants
Speaker 1: to apply the pressure. The point I'm getting to it
Speaker 1: is if Russian oil starts to flow, American oil is
Speaker 1: already flowing. Saudi oil is already flowing because tromp pants
Speaker 1: ton or price of oil as a counterweait to Russia.
Speaker 1: That puts the Nigerian budget in very, very deep. The
Speaker 1: risk is there that if you don't sell oil at
Speaker 1: if oil goes to sixty when in big trouble sixty.
Speaker 3: But why why would the Saudis agree to what the
Speaker 3: Americans are asking for?
Speaker 1: Because because because they have the Petro do life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have, and they have they have a world. And again,
Speaker 1: don't don't forget that it's Iran Don't forget it's before
Speaker 1: before October seventh. It was the Arab world versus the Iranians.
Speaker 5: Before Otoba, the Wahamas did so there's still that thing there.
Speaker 3: But don't don't don't make the mistake that there is
Speaker 3: an assumption that there.
Speaker 12: Is no meeting of the minds between the Iranians and
Speaker 12: the Saudis and other oil producers with regards to what
Speaker 12: is also in their common interests.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yes, they have political differences, no doubt, but when
Speaker 3: it comes to the issue of oil production and ensuring
Speaker 3: that the price of oil, it gives them maximum repion
Speaker 3: is because Thudi Arabia also have their own internal issues as.
Speaker 2: Well, and they have a lot of developmental.
Speaker 3: Projects that they need money. Yeah, well I know, I
Speaker 3: know what I was saying, and I get your own angosa.
Speaker 3: But the real it is that America and Saudia Arabia.
Speaker 3: It's also been Saudia's interests if it is not too
Speaker 3: expensive or explain why, because what I was really saying
Speaker 3: is smart because if you understand the fact that uns
Speaker 3: this is the leading of oil and also the fact
Speaker 3: that when all is expensive, your production becomes attractive, and
Speaker 3: the production is big in America and that was.
Speaker 2: Wife remember some years back.
Speaker 3: Arabia try to keep all at lower end levels because.
Speaker 2: They want to make your production car however.
Speaker 3: Or Nigeria, I think would be win came because if
Speaker 3: you don't explain why, marginally it looks like it looks
Speaker 3: like in negative scenario because you know, naturally Coulder is
Speaker 3: our major export, but in reality not really a big
Speaker 3: player and couldn't expose again and the fact that we
Speaker 3: also have down Quaturifiray bringing out exports and will find
Speaker 3: we expect discent margins and also the.
Speaker 2: Composition of life could still makes it more attractive.
Speaker 3: You look at the WAT for example, he's selling ten
Speaker 3: dollars less than press could Nigeria's could is three to
Speaker 3: five dollars higher than press could, so it will really
Speaker 3: take a lot and I don't see it happening this year.
Speaker 3: We runners will sit with the present on the table
Speaker 3: because my strategy is that sorry, my strategy presents from
Speaker 3: strategy is that.
Speaker 2: He wants to bring a lot of people to the table.
Speaker 2: He's already working on that. It's working.
Speaker 3: But in vanity is that this don't happen in this
Speaker 3: all all all is it going to be sensitive commodity
Speaker 3: and it's mostly seasons and a lot of funamental so
Speaker 3: it's stronger to for example, wo cap all prices, but
Speaker 3: at the same time it might boost nagers. Socrates a
Speaker 3: very debated put thing.
Speaker 2: But what a lot of people are putting on is
Speaker 2: that the.
Speaker 13: Fact that Couldy is already pigiar about twelve noon parers
Speaker 13: of good American could it means that he can't cheaper margins.
Speaker 13: He can export descent margins and we have fatlizer exports
Speaker 13: already on ground.
Speaker 2: The fact that the blood is already kicking.
Speaker 3: Out this his fields around exammobile you're seeing them, is
Speaker 3: also ramping up.
Speaker 2: On that on that angle you see, uh, the clouds
Speaker 2: power Gurugu.
Speaker 3: Taking advantage of the fact that Africa, the govermmber is
Speaker 3: giving the fire government billions of dollars to turn eleetricity.
Speaker 3: So calu this year we expect efforts to improve all
Speaker 3: this doma.
Speaker 2: But the risk for Nigeria, the risk of niger.
Speaker 3: Is implementation and how these things are torn. That's where
Speaker 3: city problem because in Firing, for example Danko this day
Speaker 3: this year, for example, a competitude to their calu at
Speaker 3: the two billion dollars were coming from from the outside world.
Speaker 3: In lot of investors from Determinal to High Street, to
Speaker 3: Ministreet to Mayfair. All they want is they want to
Speaker 3: get a mark on down Koti. So I think clean
Speaker 3: y YouTube.
Speaker 1: But remember Dann does do private placement to those big boys.
Speaker 1: The money comes to him directly and not to Nigeria.
Speaker 1: But just putting aside, right, I read the Treasure Secretary
Speaker 1: Mister Scott Bassett said they have three main goals. So
Speaker 1: one of those goals is three million new barrels of
Speaker 1: crude pumped out three million. Nigeria is still struggling with
Speaker 1: one point six one point eight, so the US wants
Speaker 1: to add the total production that Nigeria is making this
Speaker 1: is US not in OPEC. I know, ail markets are
Speaker 1: like substitution. If Russia takes over India, because now the
Speaker 1: Russians are taking over the Indian market because of dis
Speaker 1: counter crude, then Nigeria has got to go to a
Speaker 1: new market to then look forward to sell its own crude.
Speaker 1: So it's like we keep on displacing ourselves. Russia has
Speaker 1: left Europe, it's going to India, then Nigeria will now
Speaker 1: go to Europe to cover the US the Russia the
Speaker 1: Russias leave. Then America now goes to the same Europe
Speaker 1: to supply them crude oil. So we're now competing with low.
Speaker 1: Imagine Europe put out like fossil fuel is.
Speaker 2: Taking a West Africa market is going in roads to
Speaker 2: me doing and there are reports that is already having
Speaker 2: a couple of agreements with So yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2: That's why the future of.
Speaker 3: Nigeria emagine industries actually the downstream because like you said,
Speaker 3: imagine it's expensive.
Speaker 2: You know the operating.
Speaker 3: Operation that costs for Niger which is between night to
Speaker 3: forty eight, the paye the most expensive.
Speaker 2: And it's not that we are on the rocky. I
Speaker 2: don't know why that is because of security. Are different things.
Speaker 3: But if you look at Sadia for example, it costs
Speaker 3: less than ten dollars, so suddenly can afford oil prices
Speaker 3: can pass up, which yeah, I agree with you, but
Speaker 3: I think our future is betting on the refined, where
Speaker 3: we get high imagines like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I just hope that the only thing
Speaker 1: that gives me confidence in Nigeria today is done got refinery.
Speaker 1: That's a game changer in Nigeria, game changer, and we're
Speaker 1: delaying the game chaine because we're not giving the man
Speaker 1: crude oil. If Dangote got crude oil today one hundred
Speaker 1: percent from n NPC that he needs one hundred percent today,
Speaker 1: Nayra is going to lose about being sound naira. So
Speaker 1: you see Nira about be twelve hundred. This is just
Speaker 1: him getting the crude oil because that would transition. It's
Speaker 1: going to be more FX endings because he's going to
Speaker 1: export by products. Then his crude oil his PMS price.
Speaker 1: He can keep driving his PMIS price downwards because he's
Speaker 1: finding locally. Crude oil is international, but he's finding locally.
Speaker 1: You can't compete with him. I'm not sure what the
Speaker 1: sort of NPC guys are doing all around the place
Speaker 1: saying that you can't compete the guy that has six
Speaker 1: hundred and thousand barrel scale in nineteen, he's in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: You can compete with him.
Speaker 14: So they know that they have the other in case
Speaker 14: that true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, interrupt you guys.
Speaker 3: I want to just ask two questions because these are
Speaker 3: things that I've made, I've always wondered about, especially when
Speaker 3: you were talking.
Speaker 2: About the interest rate.
Speaker 3: We know that the current interest rates we have in
Speaker 3: Nigeria are unsustainable for industry.
Speaker 2: They cannot borrow.
Speaker 3: Anybody who borrows can only do it for a short time.
Speaker 3: You can on make any long term business plans based
Speaker 3: on borrowing money from the Nigerian Banking Center. What would
Speaker 3: it take to bring our interest rates to below ten percent?
Speaker 3: In Canada, in the US, in the UK the interest
Speaker 3: rate is between four and five percent maximum Almost ours
Speaker 3: is now it's sixty fives as much?
Speaker 2: What do we do?
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people don't understand that if
Speaker 3: you look at inflationary that the love of reasons, why
Speaker 3: are interestes are high?
Speaker 2: And you know, from a MOUNTI.
Speaker 3: Perspective to the nest with two that's the best way
Speaker 3: to bring.
Speaker 2: In influenced like and you don't really apposes your country.
Speaker 3: Now look just look at the socialia for example, many
Speaker 3: people who are on mini coins, maybe, who are on
Speaker 3: skids making, maybe who are ranting.
Speaker 2: Maybe, so we're not really put it.
Speaker 3: If you look at export imports, it's not even chinnas
Speaker 3: two weeks export import in it.
Speaker 2: If you look at it, look at what China and declaras.
Speaker 3: Sup and declare declared supplus because what's Typrica declared surplus?
Speaker 15: You know were the valety is that we are not
Speaker 15: ampoosing the country and that.
Speaker 2: You are part to change it.
Speaker 16: Now you have banks, for example, they are they are
Speaker 16: integral to.
Speaker 2: Our economy and they also have to able.
Speaker 3: To figure to.
Speaker 2: Your community. Is so uh.
Speaker 3: The the reason is that if our banks, for example,
Speaker 3: they have to be created. The reason why our banks
Speaker 3: are instellar profits is not because the really sector is working,
Speaker 3: is because they are not everywhere else on cutch treasury
Speaker 3: management where they have to do investments like good Man
Speaker 3: saxpone and study a bank like ancest for examples, are
Speaker 3: devastating opening in different African countries because they want to
Speaker 3: have less pressure. And then you're so, why are you're
Speaker 3: talking about that? It's not the job of banks to
Speaker 3: fix the ready sector because a lot of people will say,
Speaker 3: we're bank making so much money and this other The
Speaker 3: reis is.
Speaker 2: That banks have to be creative and we have the
Speaker 2: best brace in our industry managing that system. For defer government.
Speaker 3: To really make our system productive, you first have to
Speaker 3: fix the culture.
Speaker 2: People don't want to want businesses.
Speaker 3: People don't want go from See look at the space
Speaker 3: wayer talking in for example, how many.
Speaker 2: People are interesting for us?
Speaker 3: Because I always say that see your passion with break barriers.
Speaker 3: Business people who Anda I know really appreciate it. You
Speaker 3: you post kick makers in front of business people. You
Speaker 3: want people to do business, then the persons. Belo has
Speaker 3: seven distant buildings in Nigeria's talk market is not any billionnaire.
Speaker 3: And all these businesses are profitable. Four of these four
Speaker 3: of the stocks. Because I'm every exposed to the stocks
Speaker 3: at all the time, I do you know how much
Speaker 3: it's making for investors. But still najas are so poor
Speaker 3: that you can't take advantage of that. If you're invested
Speaker 3: in three four years ago, you have been a big
Speaker 3: boy right.
Speaker 2: Now because see work Transcorp.
Speaker 3: For example, we did one thousand in two years. You know,
Speaker 3: But I maybe I just can't take a radice of
Speaker 3: these things. So it's not that we don't have bright people,
Speaker 3: but these bright people are not head. I'm going to
Speaker 3: try to push these bright people, you know, because we
Speaker 3: have a system where entertainment and all this distraction take
Speaker 3: the other of the day. It becomes a problem. So
Speaker 3: we have a fiscal problem, we have a social problem.
Speaker 3: We have a mental problem, because if we cannot really
Speaker 3: taste the social and mental and make business people attractive,
Speaker 3: there are people who don't invest.
Speaker 2: Because it's not that people we don't have intelligent people.
Speaker 2: It's not that we don't have processes that are not working.
Speaker 3: Even with just tough climate, we have people minting money.
Speaker 3: That's why I keep shouting that see pull these rich guys.
Speaker 3: Yes it's not perfect, but this which guy have found
Speaker 3: a way to break even in this market. You can
Speaker 3: be part of this. So I think the solution is
Speaker 3: personalized for me. I think the solution is within.
Speaker 2: You have.
Speaker 3: We have to change the culture. We have to push
Speaker 3: in successful people forward.
Speaker 2: We have to we were plagizing governments. We also need
Speaker 2: to fix ourselves because every selves as a little bit
Speaker 2: you lear on it.
Speaker 3: You cannot be criticizing governments and the line on the
Speaker 3: bed not doing anything, not learning, because look at the blockchain,
Speaker 3: look at I see manners are self thoughts man that.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say, I don't want to point
Speaker 2: out something.
Speaker 3: I don't know how far your memory goes back with
Speaker 3: regards to now our Nigeria has been.
Speaker 2: If you go.
Speaker 3: Back to the late nineteen sixties and the nineteen seventies
Speaker 3: up to the mid nineteen eighties, there was an industrial
Speaker 3: sector in Nigeria that was growing.
Speaker 2: It was producing things.
Speaker 3: Were being made, different things being made. These industries were
Speaker 3: employing people. And if we had continued to develop that
Speaker 3: industrial sector, then it would have brought about an increase
Speaker 3: in despise of the economy. It would have helped to
Speaker 3: increase the purchasing power of people who are earning from
Speaker 3: the manufacturing sector.
Speaker 2: But when.
Speaker 3: NIRA collapsed in the mid eighties, all these industries crashed,
Speaker 3: most of them for use.
Speaker 1: Listen, let me give you the academic answer for those
Speaker 1: listening right. So, interest rate is the cost of money.
Speaker 1: You know, when you go to buy meatpie, you pay
Speaker 1: money that's the cost of the meat pie. When you
Speaker 1: go to a bank, you buy money, you pay interest
Speaker 1: as the cost of that money. Now inflation, right, if
Speaker 1: you look at the very very busy developed inflation, it's
Speaker 1: too much money in the economy chas into a few
Speaker 1: because that's a very very busy definition that we all know.
Speaker 1: So what's going on is that in Nigeria today there's
Speaker 1: just a lot of naira we printed to the three trillion.
Speaker 1: Then we have all these budgets. We have a lot
Speaker 1: of money in circulation, but there's no production, there's no productivity.
Speaker 1: Most of the semes have closed down because there's no
Speaker 1: power to power the industries. Right, So what you then
Speaker 1: see is that one million today was not what one
Speaker 1: minion was ten years ago. Today one million. So now
Speaker 1: all that one million is around. What does the cibien do?
Speaker 1: Decibians all central banks in the world were created to
Speaker 1: fight inflation, all of them. The rest of do is Jarra,
Speaker 1: from America to UK to Nigeria. They are all created
Speaker 1: to fighting inflation. How do you fight infliction? Remember it
Speaker 1: was of infliction. Too much money in the economy, so
Speaker 1: you remove the economy, the money in the economy how
Speaker 1: do you move the money in the economy. You go
Speaker 1: to the banks, or you tell the banks that I'm
Speaker 1: going to lend you. I'll lend you money at twenty
Speaker 1: three percent. That's the MPR gott In MPR montropolity ate,
Speaker 1: twenty three percent. Once you put your rate at twenty percent,
Speaker 1: no bank will go below you because it doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. Why would they lend you cheaper than where
Speaker 1: they're going to borrow from. So interest rates now sort
Speaker 1: of move up. So when interest rates move up, all
Speaker 1: of you now rush to piggy best who rush to
Speaker 1: all your banks, and you put money in Piggyvest and
Speaker 1: the rest because you want to end a higher interest rate.
Speaker 1: So Sybyan mops up money from the economy into all
Speaker 1: these outlets because it raises interest rates. But by resnues
Speaker 1: interest rates, SMEs cannot borrow. You see the problem. So
Speaker 1: to fight inflation, you have to raise interest rate. But
Speaker 1: when you raise interest rates, semes cannot borrow. So in
Speaker 1: economics there's no right or wrong answer. It gives you choices.
Speaker 1: Niger has got two choices. Nija can say, we want
Speaker 1: to fight inflation, so we're going to raise rates. Kill inflation,
Speaker 1: then pursue groots. The problem in Nigeria is that what
Speaker 1: causes inflation is not this morning's circulation. What's causing inflation
Speaker 1: is the high cost of food. That because food is
Speaker 1: no longer available in Niger because of the insurgency in
Speaker 1: the Middle Belt, the North and all that, all the
Speaker 1: insecurities that's happening, So food has gone off in price.
Speaker 1: So because food has gone up in price, that's what's
Speaker 1: causing the inflation. Food goes up, so everybody's prices goes up.
Speaker 1: So when the cb and raises MPR, it doesn't solve
Speaker 1: the problem because they can't produce food in CBN. They
Speaker 1: can only raise interest rates. So what's the seconding. Nijack
Speaker 1: and Naja can say we're going to ignore inflation and
Speaker 1: pursue groot with mess. Nija just tells Sabian print twenty trillion.
Speaker 1: I don't care. Print the money. Take the money and
Speaker 1: give it to SMEs to buy diesel or to subsidize
Speaker 1: their industries and let them produce. Someone is gonna say, wow, Carl,
Speaker 1: you are printing twenty trillion. That will cost inflation. Not
Speaker 1: so America has been printing money since q E one
Speaker 1: q E two, q E three, there was no inflation.
Speaker 1: You get the inflation when there's no production to soak
Speaker 1: up that excess cash. So if you go to Niger
Speaker 1: and you say you want to buy what to Niger's
Speaker 1: buy every day? Indo Me. What's the price of one
Speaker 1: Indo Me pack? And I don't know how much, I'm
Speaker 1: sure maybe fifteen d era one Indo w pak if
Speaker 1: you make if you let's say Indo Me was an
Speaker 1: SEMy and you gave Indo Me twenty billion and you said,
Speaker 1: Indo Me want you to drop the price of indome
Speaker 1: from one hundred and era to ten error in the me,
Speaker 1: It's okay, we're gonna take this money. We're gonna build
Speaker 1: solar to reduce our energy cost because they've invested that
Speaker 1: twenty trillion or whatever to reduce energy costs. The price
Speaker 1: by Indo Me falls. So you see, there's more mone
Speaker 1: in the economy, but prices actually go down because there's
Speaker 1: more productivity. That increasing productivity then drives the consumption that
Speaker 1: is absent today. That's what's going.
Speaker 2: On because America in the reserve, America, it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't, it might, it does, it doesn't matter, it matters
Speaker 1: anywhere it's under or under good luck and conjury. Well,
Speaker 1: we also printed money, but the inflation was flat line
Speaker 1: at about nine or it was flat line. It's the
Speaker 1: issue is the productivity. If you don't have power supply,
Speaker 1: If you don't have power supplies, you are going to
Speaker 1: be in trouble.
Speaker 3: Just trying to give the monetary perspective of monetaries then
Speaker 3: to tell like, if you look at your most plying
Speaker 3: that guments, is.
Speaker 2: That essially spending inflation?
Speaker 3: You know you have to look at the argument. But
Speaker 3: I understand your thing. But if you look at the
Speaker 3: context of me, now it's not used outside.
Speaker 1: I hear you looking there. I hear you. But America
Speaker 1: America printed money and built Hoover Dam, Nigeria printed money,
Speaker 1: or Nijera borrowed money and also built Kanji Dam. Nobody
Speaker 1: would argue that Kanji Dam is inflationary. Nobody because Kanji
Speaker 1: Dam prices power that then powers semis. So whatever you
Speaker 1: spend in kanji the productivity gain will soak up the inflation.
Speaker 1: I wrote, if you can google an altogether about inflution
Speaker 1: in my village, when you go to any flag in
Speaker 1: the southeast from the from December tenth to December fifth
Speaker 1: to generary fifth, prices go up one hundred percent in
Speaker 1: the village. That's not inflation, that's not that is more
Speaker 1: demand pushing up prices because once those guys leave the
Speaker 1: foind the guys guys leave the village, the prices can
Speaker 1: come back down again. So it's not the price high
Speaker 1: that is the problem is that prices are going up
Speaker 1: and income is not keeping peace in in the village.
Speaker 1: Prices go up, but there's dollars everywhere. So what I
Speaker 1: what I did call or not or the palm wine
Speaker 1: is one thousand. There's an American that has come back
Speaker 1: from that. It's going to spend the thousand. So there's
Speaker 1: no inflection per se in the village. The same in America,
Speaker 1: when infleshon goes up, wages go up. But in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: your we just have been thirty thousand naira for nearly
Speaker 1: a decade and prices have gone up. So the only
Speaker 1: way you can greet that wage to go up is productivity.
Speaker 1: You've got to produce things at a cheaper price in
Speaker 1: Nigeria to create local wealth. What that happens, Infleshian will
Speaker 1: not be a bother. It doesn't matter if prices of
Speaker 1: rice goes up by five percent next year, because your
Speaker 1: income will go up by ten percent, So it's immaterial.
Speaker 1: That's the point. Geesha can be tankobo or one hundred narra.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if your income goes up from tenkobo
Speaker 1: to two hundred narra. The wahala is that in Nigeria
Speaker 1: gesha has gone from tenkobo to hundred and era and
Speaker 1: your wage has gone from tenkobo to fifty cobo. That's
Speaker 1: the problem.
Speaker 2: So but can we can we agree that.
Speaker 3: Using using interest rates to deal with the issue of
Speaker 3: inflation can only work.
Speaker 2: When there is physical discipline from the government.
Speaker 3: You're using they're using interest rates you to deal with
Speaker 3: the with the with the bands.
Speaker 2: But this is the government that is pumping out billions
Speaker 2: of billions of explained.
Speaker 3: Simple reason why is why is the interest rate looking attractive?
Speaker 2: You know, if we have lure with this situation we're
Speaker 2: coming from. If we have.
Speaker 3: Interest rate, trust me and I would have gotten to
Speaker 3: or like you said, I've gotten to the reason why
Speaker 3: I would have this kind of stability is that fbis
Speaker 3: are coming to that you have and investing in our
Speaker 3: treasy views. So it's given the cpn ethicts to intervet, control, stabilize,
Speaker 3: catalyze the market.
Speaker 2: But you know it's also giving.
Speaker 3: Us time if any were already dissent, like the operation
Speaker 3: that you use color, it should have assisted.
Speaker 2: But right now that's.
Speaker 3: The best ammunition the CBN has.
Speaker 2: So if you say you want to wants to reduce,
Speaker 2: do you.
Speaker 3: Know the amount of speculation is also so I don't
Speaker 3: agree its speculation.
Speaker 1: Only that you can only do two things. You can
Speaker 1: only do two things. You can number one increasing interest
Speaker 1: rates and then kill growth because interest rates kill growth.
Speaker 1: That's the academic or you can reduce interest rates, allow
Speaker 1: inflation and allow growth. You can't do both of them.
Speaker 1: So now in Nigeria, for me, for me, I would
Speaker 1: say this, now the inflation increase, the reason of the
Speaker 1: m PR is not really killing inflation. We have been
Speaker 1: raising interest rates for the last two years, kept on
Speaker 1: going up, so we might let's try something. But we
Speaker 1: know that we know that, right, we know that, So
Speaker 1: let's do something else.
Speaker 2: Let's do the arguments telling it. You be honest, if
Speaker 2: you ask, many.
Speaker 3: Monitual financialists will tell you that the eye interest rates
Speaker 3: is no leads to solve intuition because we all know
Speaker 3: that it's not solving intuition, but it does it lots
Speaker 3: now capitial markets.
Speaker 2: It brings stability in our market.
Speaker 1: But only it's the same. It's the same thing where this,
Speaker 1: this attracting f PI is the same where you fight inflation.
Speaker 1: When you sell a currency, you are making the other
Speaker 1: currency go higher. When cb AND sells dollars, Nayra goes higher.
Speaker 1: So when CBR makes interest rates for Nigeria higher, they
Speaker 1: are making people to buy nyra and sell dollar, so
Speaker 1: the same thing they're doing. The point I'm getting to
Speaker 1: is this, if inflation cannot be brought down, cannot be
Speaker 1: brought down by by by monetary means in Nigeria alone,
Speaker 1: because civilian does not control how much rice grows in kerby,
Speaker 1: then perhaps should pause inflation targeting and go after targeted investment.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to say this exactly what mister Methley was doing.
Speaker 1: Take a lot of money, go to targeted companies and
Speaker 1: say we're going to give you this money at five percent.
Speaker 1: It's a subsidy on interest rate. Produce produce at five percent.
Speaker 2: You're going.
Speaker 1: It happens in any in any economy, is exactly what
Speaker 1: happens that Americans do it, the British do it, The
Speaker 1: European Central Bank does it. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Yes,
Speaker 1: the US FED will give you what is fd I
Speaker 1: S this those are all last year. Let me let
Speaker 1: me explain. You asked me a question, because folks are listening.
Speaker 1: Regional banks in America were under thread last year to
Speaker 1: collapse regional banks when we had the collapse of the
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley Bank. What did the FED do it? First
Speaker 1: of all, said FDI whether you are fd I S
Speaker 1: or not, f d C blankets guarantee, blankets guarantee in America,
Speaker 1: blankets guarantee fd I C and the FED. So the
Speaker 1: point of making development of finance, we are we are
Speaker 1: developing in the nation. We are not growing at two
Speaker 1: to three percent like how the West cruise we have.
Speaker 1: We have to look at ourselves like the weird Europe
Speaker 1: was after Second World War when the Americans did marshal
Speaker 1: up plan. You've got to go deficit financing, borrow in
Speaker 1: lots and invest in capital project. The problem that just
Speaker 1: that we're borrowing to pay salary. If we borrowed today
Speaker 1: to build rails, roads and rails, nobody will complain. But
Speaker 1: you can't borrow and build salaries.
Speaker 5: That when you're talking about the money.
Speaker 2: Is there efficts that we have in Nigeria.
Speaker 3: According to JP Morgan a lot as we have worked
Speaker 3: about six pillion gross, we don't really have money.
Speaker 1: Olimited Nigeria issue. Nigeria issued a five hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: bond and it was over subscribed in Nigeria, not abroad.
Speaker 1: In Nigeria here the Symbian told Nigeria's if you have dollar,
Speaker 1: bring it out five hundred it was over subscribed. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you if Cypian off issues a one billion
Speaker 1: dollar dollar one billion dollar bond today in Nigeria paying
Speaker 1: six percent in to be over subscribed, America is paying
Speaker 1: three percent. We are going to get in dollar six
Speaker 1: percent guaranteed from Cybian it to be over subscribed. Symbian
Speaker 1: can do it. The problem is that were with the
Speaker 1: semen that was is that money for today is not
Speaker 1: money to give to BDCs because that's how we love this.
Speaker 1: This stability talk about lived is because the CBN is
Speaker 1: selling dollar, I'm buying Nira. That's why I write stable before.
Speaker 1: If CBN stops b d C Onlimita today, Olim there spaces.
Speaker 1: B if CDN stops BDC sales today, now I will
Speaker 1: crash quote me.
Speaker 2: Lemlproof Why I disagree you.
Speaker 3: So look at the top of the year, look at
Speaker 3: the experiance start of the year, and look at when
Speaker 3: busses came into play.
Speaker 2: The year is about six weeks old, right, the years
Speaker 2: about six weeks. If you look at the f FROMMTQ,
Speaker 2: this is a letter has arranged between one, five and
Speaker 2: one for fifty to one. Yeah, I want to putting that.
Speaker 1: Rule.
Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to tell.
Speaker 3: You is that ability and demand FX demand in Nigeria has.
Speaker 2: Moderated a cross board. Let's and the kind of.
Speaker 3: Bull a city be so in the past two two years,
Speaker 3: we're not expected correct. Market is not clear to market,
Speaker 3: you cannot get that kind of that except so you
Speaker 3: have to put all those.
Speaker 1: Don't crowded space if you guys want to speak, But
Speaker 1: let me say something live. Their stability is supply. When
Speaker 1: Nigerians don't see supply of EFX, you know what they do,
Speaker 1: They buy two three months supply today. So if I'm
Speaker 1: an important, no, no, let me let me learn. Let
Speaker 1: me learn. If I'm an important and I import tiles
Speaker 1: and I need ten thousand dollars to import tiles. If
Speaker 1: there's effects stability, I only bid for one month, so
Speaker 1: the demand will just be for one month. But if
Speaker 1: I see that there's no demand, there's no supply of dollars,
Speaker 1: what would I bid for our bid for six months.
Speaker 1: So the demand for dollars Niger is artificial because people
Speaker 1: are bidding for bed I'm not sure of getting supply tomorrow.
Speaker 1: What Cybian has done which is perfect, which is perfect
Speaker 1: and should be commended. Siban is telling these guys that listen,
Speaker 1: I have dollars for you, don't overbid. If you want
Speaker 1: dollars in March, wait till March and bid. So because
Speaker 1: there's stability and people are saying, okay, I will not
Speaker 1: tie down my naira and buy dollar. I will wait
Speaker 1: till March and buy my dog. That's what you're saying
Speaker 1: Naire today. This stability is because CYBN is saying if
Speaker 1: you want dollar, will give you dollar. So it has
Speaker 1: become stable. I'm not saying it's wrong strategy. I'm saying
Speaker 1: this is the right strategy. But if CBN today does
Speaker 1: not replace this FPP, I can only do FPI Foreign
Speaker 1: popular investments. It is the federal government that should do
Speaker 1: foreign direct investments and remittances. So it is Cybian is doing.
Speaker 1: We've done. Oh no, FPI has come in. It's one
Speaker 1: year maximum, two year maximum. The government should then take
Speaker 1: over and do FDI. What means that you and I
Speaker 1: olimitated that are broad or can have abroad, will infloat
Speaker 1: the last baton to invest. If you don't do that, ultimately,
Speaker 1: sim it's going to just be borrowing money at expensive
Speaker 1: rates to pay back due to people. FPI is unsustainable.
Speaker 1: That's the point. Yeah, I'm just at what you have.
Speaker 2: So this is what recipient is doing on defer government,
Speaker 2: So we just update on their own strategy.
Speaker 3: You understand that there's a window where you have to
Speaker 3: put your FX in the bank, so it's going to
Speaker 3: be put in after that wind to it's going to
Speaker 3: be kind of legal for you to have FX outside
Speaker 3: the banking system.
Speaker 2: That will also give the NaNs one by time. However,
Speaker 2: if you.
Speaker 3: Also look at the fact that the FX code, the
Speaker 3: efficiency of our financ market where you have.
Speaker 2: You determine now to run Now you.
Speaker 11: Have f transaction as somehow really brought.
Speaker 3: In stability since November to January.
Speaker 2: That that's also helped yes.
Speaker 3: PDC pleasing usual liquidity for waiting for business pity.
Speaker 2: I'm not disupposing that.
Speaker 3: I'm only saying that there are a lot of factors
Speaker 3: that the government is really working on. But my thing
Speaker 3: is that if they really implement all the things they
Speaker 3: plan to do, I don't see how the night would
Speaker 3: be this parabolic like we saw was blue because our demands,
Speaker 3: they already know our demand size, They already know the
Speaker 3: fact that.
Speaker 1: You and I talking for instance of Nigeria, you and
Speaker 1: I talking don't know the the claims on that effects reserve.
Speaker 1: We have forty something billion turn something billion. We don't
Speaker 1: know the claims on that effects reserve. So you and
Speaker 1: I talking here cannot even say, oh, we we have
Speaker 1: money for six months or eight months. Supply there's money
Speaker 1: in the foreigners, but it's borrowed money. The point again,
Speaker 1: I come back to this again, to this. As long
Speaker 1: as Nigeria's know they supply from CIB and they not,
Speaker 1: I keep on falling. Sorry, the door keep on falling
Speaker 1: because Steveen is saying to Nigeria and I will give
Speaker 1: you dollars, don't rush, don't don't try to build an
Speaker 1: advance when in school session. When in school fish time,
Speaker 1: When school fish time comes, that's when we can test
Speaker 1: the sybyan stability policy. Because Cybia has got to have
Speaker 1: a lot of dollars on hand, so that when you
Speaker 1: go to your bank or you go to your quota
Speaker 1: and quote dollar gund you say I want to buy dollar.
Speaker 1: If they can give you dollar, dollar will keep on falling.
Speaker 1: That's the point I'm making. The dollar is not printed
Speaker 1: in Nigeria. It is end into Nigeria. It is brought
Speaker 1: by a plane in people's pockets in Fbi. It has
Speaker 1: to come to this country. So when it is in
Speaker 1: this country and it is there, people can see it.
Speaker 1: People can say, oh, I want to buy rice. In July,
Speaker 1: Cyba says we got you, We got you. The dollar
Speaker 1: ready to keep on crashing. The dollar is high today.
Speaker 1: The dollar should not be fifteen hundred today. It's artificially high.
Speaker 1: That's the point I'm making. I'm agreeing with you by
Speaker 1: the side sideway, fifteen onred is too high for dollar.
Speaker 1: But if you can, if you cannot buy bread, you
Speaker 1: will pay one five for bread. But if bred I think,
Speaker 1: get prays everywhere you pay mirror. It's the same thing
Speaker 1: it's the scarcity that is causing this artificial price to
Speaker 1: be baked in into the real demand. There's a real
Speaker 1: demand for dollars, and then there's the expectation that I
Speaker 1: will not get dollars. So in in manufacturing, you do
Speaker 1: replacement pricing. Let me do replacement parting today and bid
Speaker 1: for my dollars tomorrow today. So you know, but let's
Speaker 1: get what I going for. Let's not let's let's get
Speaker 1: a chin chin doll chin dollah. Hey, thanks for having
Speaker 1: in the be here for a while. Go ahead, you're
Speaker 1: working better than Jimmy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, go for it, Thank you for thank you for
Speaker 2: this good conversation. So well.
Speaker 10: Listening to you guys, I'm you're a very young guy
Speaker 10: currently studying the UK.
Speaker 2: So when I listen to your conversation.
Speaker 10: I am very It seems there's a problem which we
Speaker 10: are killing the realestalk to find finance, the to do
Speaker 10: to get following direct investments outside from outside the country
Speaker 10: with this high interest rates, and also the government's spending,
Speaker 10: government spending. Every inflation is simply unproductive government spending, simply
Speaker 10: unproductive government spending.
Speaker 2: And one thing I always have an issue.
Speaker 10: Is that it always seems that the government is isolated
Speaker 10: from the people in Nigeria. Like people in Nigeria, like
Speaker 10: the government exists because of the natural resources we have.
Speaker 2: The government can flute in another realm.
Speaker 10: That is, if the people are not productive, they can
Speaker 10: still survive. And that is not how it is like normally,
Speaker 10: like in Singapore, they didn't have any natural resources. They
Speaker 10: have to depend on the productivity of the people for
Speaker 10: them to survive, for the government to exist. And the
Speaker 10: thing is that I always say products the government exists
Speaker 10: independently of the people. It is like I would say,
Speaker 10: I give an example of the government like in mafia.
Speaker 11: The mafia exists without the people existing. The people they
Speaker 11: collect prints from existing.
Speaker 10: So if you can find a way to direct to
Speaker 10: connect the survivor of the government with the productivity of
Speaker 10: the people, that is the only way the government is
Speaker 10: going to really work forward. And also there's there's something
Speaker 10: about there's something something about spending. I've lost my chain
Speaker 10: of thoughts.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I mean your first point is fantastic, you know
Speaker 1: what you talk about. Yes, so we're not passion the government.
Speaker 1: What the syband is doing is actually what they're supposed
Speaker 1: to do. The Sibian's job is not to follow the
Speaker 1: federal government right, so thecibliences excess liquidity, they have to
Speaker 1: raise interest rates. Inflation is the devil. There's not worse
Speaker 1: in this life than inflation. You can't avoid it. So
Speaker 1: whenever you see countries when they see inflation coming, they
Speaker 1: want to kill it very very early. This is why
Speaker 1: I'm saying which we should try to do something else
Speaker 1: is because in this instance in Nigeria, we're not able
Speaker 1: to kill inflation by just monetary means. It has all
Speaker 1: that means. In America they can kill infliction with monetary
Speaker 1: means because the economy is a bit more linked. In Nigeria.
Speaker 1: The price of rice in kebe has a direct effect
Speaker 1: to how much you pay for interest rate on your
Speaker 1: Piggy Best accounting legos. The price of rice in keby,
Speaker 1: it's what all these legos your piece should be interested
Speaker 1: in because if the price of rice goes up, what
Speaker 1: piggy Best pays you will go up and down. But
Speaker 1: we don't lead to that connection because it's too abstract
Speaker 1: in Nigeria. So that's the point. We have to be
Speaker 1: a bit more innovative in how we want to fight inflation.
Speaker 1: We can simply raise rates across the economy to really,
Speaker 1: I wasn't any percent just to fight inflation. We've killed
Speaker 1: SMEs long enough. So perhaps you start now targeted credit,
Speaker 1: targeted credit towards semis. We have to go back to
Speaker 1: doing that development wire development economy, you know, so we
Speaker 1: have to go back to saying what you have to identify,
Speaker 1: you know, identify with with sectors are critical and then
Speaker 1: support them. That's where I'm going to.
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, Carlu I want and I wanted to say.
Speaker 11: I've gotten back mine. The thing is I have this,
Speaker 11: I see this.
Speaker 10: Why is it that because I'm always off the form
Speaker 10: of the mindset that in Angeia we should not have.
Speaker 10: We should have it with that if there's a manufacturer
Speaker 10: for something in Anngeria, you have to product protect your
Speaker 10: young industries. If there's a manufacturer for something, any any important,
Speaker 10: anything important, won't be tarifed, just like China does.
Speaker 2: It, Gurope does it.
Speaker 10: You look at industries must be producted protected. But it's
Speaker 10: just like because the there is no way we can
Speaker 10: be we can and competit with China on the level
Speaker 10: of efficiency of our production.
Speaker 2: Of course China produces so efficiently.
Speaker 1: I hear you Bobby, very have to protect low. I
Speaker 1: hear you, I hear you, but very careful with that.
Speaker 1: You know, if you google the I can't pronounce the
Speaker 1: word exactly. It's called calico c a L I see
Speaker 1: a calico act When in the past, Britain controlled the
Speaker 1: textile trade in the whole world. Britain controlled. Britain produced
Speaker 1: all the clues that people were in the entire world.
Speaker 1: They have the you know, the weave, you know the
Speaker 1: spinning weave was it was in Britain all that. So
Speaker 1: then after a while India started to now do textiles
Speaker 1: and because Indian label was very, very cheap, they were
Speaker 1: taking market to share away from from Britain. I know about.
Speaker 1: This was when India was in the cooling of UK.
Speaker 1: So what did the English people do. They put a
Speaker 1: tax on the textiles that came from India to the UK,
Speaker 1: made it so expensive that Indians could not export things.
Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about protection. But look at what
Speaker 1: the India the UK guys did it to not just
Speaker 1: to protect the guys, but to allow mechanization to come
Speaker 1: in and to fight the Indians. Right and even with
Speaker 1: the mechanization, they found out that they could not still
Speaker 1: compete with the Indian manufacing output. So according to what
Speaker 1: we call to Shapiro's love competitive returns, they removed the
Speaker 1: tariffs and said, let us enjoy the cheap textiles from India,
Speaker 1: but will get them through something else. So while making
Speaker 1: these points that protection is good, there's nothing like fretid
Speaker 1: in the world. There's no nation on Earth that does
Speaker 1: not impose a tariff. But be careful that you don't
Speaker 1: use tariffs to subsidize inefficient local industries. If we have
Speaker 1: a tariff today, Nitel will still be the one giving
Speaker 1: you GSM not in South African company to be Natail
Speaker 1: and they will say, oh, it's Nigerian. So we've got
Speaker 1: to say where do we excel at? Where? Where where
Speaker 1: do we have we're excelling maybe some industries. Then we
Speaker 1: focus on that and if they look the important guys
Speaker 1: are going to be cheaper than the local guys all
Speaker 1: had them coming. But you know, you protect what is
Speaker 1: still growing that has a chance to compete. You know,
Speaker 1: when I was growing up, I'm not verified the story,
Speaker 1: but you know when I was growing up in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: the popular music in Nigeria back then was marcosa Macosa
Speaker 1: was very popular Nigeria and a Willow a Willa was
Speaker 1: a superstar. We didn't have any afro beato, just fella.
Speaker 1: There was no borner Boy, there was no tell Us,
Speaker 1: Marcosa and English music. When I was university, we played
Speaker 1: American music and Macosa. I heard that Macosa was very
Speaker 1: popular because it has anxire. But Booth as a second
Speaker 1: just banned English music and allowed only Macosa. So Macosa
Speaker 1: had time in insire to develop and become this ingrained
Speaker 1: music sauce. So the same thing you have to do
Speaker 1: a tariff to protect growth. It's not forever. You have
Speaker 1: to say tariff. You allow the Nigerian companies to grow.
Speaker 1: But it can't be forever. You can't say forever and
Speaker 1: ever and ever no competition because then they will become
Speaker 1: lazy and they won't reduce their prices because they have
Speaker 1: a protection. But great points. I agree with your point here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let me get let me get a big bird. Thanks.
Speaker 1: I think your very well comes to thank you, big bird.
Speaker 1: You've got the floor, the floor, okay, believe yes, but
Speaker 1: you have an echo, Yes you have.
Speaker 17: An Okay, sorry, I said, okay. I would love to
Speaker 17: appreciate what we have discussed. He's been amazing and I've
Speaker 17: been learning a lots.
Speaker 2: So I want to come in on this angle. Nigeria.
Speaker 2: Of course, you just have a spending problem.
Speaker 17: I remember really is when we solved the news about
Speaker 17: having itd one extra state in the Nigeria and I
Speaker 17: was speaking to the colleague of mine and I said,
Speaker 17: what do.
Speaker 2: You think about the impact of the one more states
Speaker 2: in Nia? And they said, ah, he's going to be good,
Speaker 2: more employment, more people in government.
Speaker 18: And I said, don't you think he's going to build
Speaker 18: more spending.
Speaker 2: He said no, it's going to build a good development.
Speaker 17: And I said, Okay, look at the statistic states we
Speaker 17: have now and ask yourself how many of these statistic
Speaker 17: states are productive and are valuable economically.
Speaker 2: Seeing the problem that you have is that a.
Speaker 17: Lot of these states are not coming out economically.
Speaker 2: They're not through jasy.
Speaker 17: I mean, if we want to look at these six
Speaker 17: geo political zones and they were coming into the less
Speaker 17: the Southwest and all of that.
Speaker 10: We say that.
Speaker 17: Legos is one of the states, Legos who bun. It's
Speaker 17: one of the states that are producing and are making money.
Speaker 2: And are valuable economically. We look at the southeast, and
Speaker 2: then you know, all these political zooms.
Speaker 17: We can actually point out the states that are valuable economically.
Speaker 2: What are going to the arrest where all this is
Speaker 2: in states.
Speaker 18: Are not making enough money for the nation. Why do
Speaker 18: you want to create more that it wants it? And
Speaker 18: then this more that it wants it?
Speaker 2: Like I heard you.
Speaker 17: Saying earlier, cal there will be more governors, there will
Speaker 17: be more National Assembly members, there will be you.
Speaker 2: Know, more local governments, more.
Speaker 18: Money to spend, more money to feed these governments and offices.
Speaker 2: What then happens to the people. And then the government,
Speaker 2: as we all see, are not even supporting in fact,
Speaker 2: from the.
Speaker 18: Way it is, they're not in literally supporting manufacturing companies
Speaker 18: in this they're not really helping matters.
Speaker 2: They're not even helping to see that.
Speaker 18: Okay, these little agreement is starting out this business.
Speaker 2: You're not trying to.
Speaker 18: See that this manufacturing business guy grows to a point.
Speaker 2: That is becoming economical valuable to the nations. So the
Speaker 2: more this happens, the more we have, like you said, inflations.
Speaker 18: If we look at China, China can actually have an inflation,
Speaker 18: but you will see because they are producing on a turky.
Speaker 18: They are producing and they are the more of the explotation.
Speaker 18: That is one of the things people to be said
Speaker 18: when he was commencing, we are more of consumers than producers.
Speaker 2: We're not producing. So when we're not producing, we are losing. Today.
Speaker 2: Look at all the USA, no matter what they do,
Speaker 2: the maganizations they need, they are strong enough knowing.
Speaker 18: That they have people who are providing.
Speaker 2: For their Indian nation. So this is the problem we
Speaker 2: are having.
Speaker 18: And then our governments, we don't have an accountability system
Speaker 18: where we can hold this good and tell them, look
Speaker 18: at what you're doing.
Speaker 2: You're strending far too much. We don't know. We don't
Speaker 2: have that system where.
Speaker 18: We can call them to order, where we can displace
Speaker 18: them until this.
Speaker 2: Thing are doing. It's just supposed to be done.
Speaker 17: I'm in Calaba current plan now and I was hurt
Speaker 17: than in Caliber.
Speaker 18: You know, there were companies, there were businesses that was
Speaker 18: going on and everything was going swietly. And then people
Speaker 18: then were not really much on you know, trading, they
Speaker 18: were on. Once we Vinish school, you enter one company,
Speaker 18: I'm going to start working. Now here's the issue. The
Speaker 18: government has placed a whole lot of tax that have
Speaker 18: pushed these company out of caliber. Now everybody is trying
Speaker 18: to enter into trading and it's becoming difficult. The producing
Speaker 18: sectors have gone so down in Nigeria, so we will
Speaker 18: have more inflations in the country.
Speaker 2: And because we don't have any.
Speaker 17: Company that it's producing effectively for us, we can't fight it.
Speaker 2: So the inflation will surely touch everybody. If we surely
Speaker 2: touch everybody. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Interesting take ye do your echo? All right? Thanks guys,
Speaker 1: appreciate the conversation. Let me get the name right, I
Speaker 1: both s talent talent. How are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm very well, I'm very well. Thanks for bringing me up.
Speaker 2: I do right. I do follow your your communications.
Speaker 1: On x I.
Speaker 19: I genuinely respect your takes on different economic aspects of
Speaker 19: what's going in the country. I do have like some
Speaker 19: interesting takes as well.
Speaker 2: I just tend to be corrected. But again this is
Speaker 2: placed on my personal observation.
Speaker 19: Again, just try being interpreted from some you know, moun
Speaker 19: economic lenses as well. So one of the things I'm
Speaker 19: noticed with a Nigerian market, like you know, no market
Speaker 19: is perfect. But again the coal is to try to
Speaker 19: show your market to be as you know, close to
Speaker 19: perfect as possible. But like, one of the things that
Speaker 19: happens is very well in nagerial market is high level collision.
Speaker 19: I feel like counsion has the way of keeping price
Speaker 19: is high, not because of the not because of the
Speaker 19: information itself, but do we like I'll use I'll use
Speaker 19: a random commodity for example, I'll use rice because it's
Speaker 19: actually the consumed commodity.
Speaker 2: And Nigeria, I remember the time we banned for your
Speaker 2: foreign products.
Speaker 19: You would expect, oh, now that the foreign product is banned,
Speaker 19: there are the competition, competition within the local products, like
Speaker 19: farmers going there. Again, Let's let's not focus on insecurity
Speaker 19: for now, because at this time there.
Speaker 2: Was no security was not the way it is right now.
Speaker 2: So they would expect, like the price of rice to
Speaker 2: go down in this moment.
Speaker 19: But what you see happen is, oh, there is no
Speaker 19: there is no longer it's no competition coming in. You
Speaker 19: see local local producers colleade and ramp up the price.
Speaker 19: I feel like that collision has a way of keeping
Speaker 19: price is high. And one of the trends have noticed
Speaker 19: overtime and nigineier is price often doesn't go down again.
Speaker 19: Sometimes it's it's based on the instability in the market
Speaker 19: because of like cost of production could go up in
Speaker 19: the future. But as well, when negletting, one expects to
Speaker 19: look at which is the degree of collision among the
Speaker 19: prisoners in the Nigeria. And and I feel like a
Speaker 19: little level competition as well keeps price often high. Another
Speaker 19: interesting thing wanted to bring up is sometimes I could
Speaker 19: almost argue that infliction is not like the current cost
Speaker 19: of inflation is not even because of like the like
Speaker 19: the high in flow of money in the in the economy.
Speaker 2: So this is what this is why I says it.
Speaker 19: So I do know the sibling has been producing like
Speaker 19: a lot of money, and I'm pumping into the economy.
Speaker 19: But then again, when you look at the money we
Speaker 19: spend paying our politicians, it takes almost half of our
Speaker 19: international object Then when you look at the logic, it
Speaker 19: looks like we may have so much money in the economy,
Speaker 19: but the most most of the money belongs like most
Speaker 19: of the money it's been a house in the account
Speaker 19: of like less than ten percent of the alternation of
Speaker 19: the economy, which I would almost call like outliers. So
Speaker 19: but when you take away with outliers I check the distribution,
Speaker 19: you realize that you know, the question would be, we
Speaker 19: really still have much too much money in the economy.
Speaker 19: This is like some interesting thoughts of upon and it
Speaker 19: makes me like I've come to that point where I'm
Speaker 19: I'm genuinely arguing within myself, like do we really have
Speaker 19: to much so much in the economy, Because even though
Speaker 19: it may look like we have too much with too
Speaker 19: much like world stud be paid or it's just three
Speaker 19: percent of the economy, I hear what you're saying the economy.
Speaker 19: I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1: So you know, there's sup called Paretos principle that means
Speaker 1: that there's always eighty twenty. So in any economy you
Speaker 1: go to on Earth, not just like you are. Any economy,
Speaker 1: the very minority are going to hold the economic world
Speaker 1: of the majority in any economy you go to so
Speaker 1: and it's measured in economics, it's something called the Genie
Speaker 1: coefficient gi n I Geni coefficient. You can see how
Speaker 1: much the income is spread out in the economy in
Speaker 1: Nigeria's case is large. You go to lecky, you see
Speaker 1: a mansion with a pool next to a shack. So
Speaker 1: we know that issue yes, so that point is there.
Speaker 1: It's not a Nigerian thing. It's really global. Most times
Speaker 1: it's higher in low income societies. To your point about
Speaker 1: price not coming down with inflation, prices come down. If
Speaker 1: you pick up an pick up a phone, pick up
Speaker 1: an iPhone, iPhone four, iPhone five, the price is down,
Speaker 1: especially when you compare to dollar. Why it's not gone
Speaker 1: down in the jat because you are converting it back
Speaker 1: to nira. You get the point of making if you're
Speaker 1: simply letter that the dollar price, the price have all
Speaker 1: gone down. But when we exchange it now from that
Speaker 1: depreciated dollar cost back to nira, we then tack on
Speaker 1: the naira in relation as it were, So it now
Speaker 1: looks like it's expensive. But most things have gone down
Speaker 1: that are made abroad, they always go down in price,
Speaker 1: but because we converted back to naira, then that price stays.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make that point. If that helps
Speaker 1: about I.
Speaker 19: Would prefer to use community for example, think this produce
Speaker 19: the Ngeria. Like let's say right, so this is one
Speaker 19: of the stile.
Speaker 1: We don't present enough. That's the problem with right. So
Speaker 1: if you look at any right, look in my in
Speaker 1: my village, Gary is almost free. But once you leave
Speaker 1: my village, Gary starts to add prices. From my village
Speaker 1: to a bar to legalus, the price starts to go higher.
Speaker 1: Why logistics. It's not the price of Gary that is
Speaker 1: going high. It's the price of storage, the price of fuel,
Speaker 1: the price of financing all that, that's whats the prize
Speaker 1: go high. Walmart in America, the price of a banana
Speaker 1: in Walmart, North Carolina, it's the same price as a
Speaker 1: Walmart bananner in Washington. Why because I have efficient the
Speaker 1: distribut logistic so they can move a crow or crow
Speaker 1: in Nigeria, the price is going up and out up
Speaker 1: on that board. All crow in America important from Nigi
Speaker 1: price is stable because they can buy it in Bold,
Speaker 1: keep it distributed and doesn't add imaginal price because they
Speaker 1: have efficient run networks. So pick. If you go to KB,
Speaker 1: rice is free. If you go to the North, meat
Speaker 1: is free. If you got to border, fish is free.
Speaker 1: But once you try to export that commodity. Beans from
Speaker 1: KB is free, but bring that beans from kby we
Speaker 1: go to Irish potato is free, but bring that Irish
Speaker 1: potato from just to legos Ah. You have to add transportation,
Speaker 1: security particulars all that, so it's nothing the community self
Speaker 1: of the problem is just the inefficiency in the local
Speaker 1: economy Nagia. That's what you're seeing as the price going up.
Speaker 1: Does that makes sense?
Speaker 2: That's fair, that's fair. So like in the end, that's
Speaker 2: to move on, to move forward.
Speaker 19: We find ourselves to tie back to the government to
Speaker 19: make not not really good.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree with you that the government has got
Speaker 1: to get out of the way. Make the policy, then
Speaker 1: get out of the way. Nigerian's are naturally entrepreneurial. In
Speaker 1: many societies, the people are not entrepreneurial. In Nigeria, people
Speaker 1: are entrepreneurial or like Singaporeans or like the Chinese. So
Speaker 1: made the laws, get out of the way, then police
Speaker 1: what's going on and then the people will take over. Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Mollywood was not created by any government. Nollywood, even the
Speaker 1: IT boys, the fin type boys were not created by
Speaker 1: any government. None. They've created. Fintech created Mollywood, automotive what
Speaker 1: it case by the government. So any thing that is growing,
Speaker 1: really knowing in tangent with population, the government, it's not involved.
Speaker 1: They come after I want to tax it, but you
Speaker 1: know it's so Nigeria's just need a government that says, listen,
Speaker 1: we're going to support you, not tax you, and then
Speaker 1: you'll just see explosive growth. That's just what we need. Okay,
Speaker 1: thanks man, let me.
Speaker 2: Say that's thank you.
Speaker 1: You're welcome, Marcone, Ali Lu food hiding sir.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and beliven everyone. So I think I've listened to mostly.
Speaker 8: I think limiteds are ptally given the most balanced.
Speaker 2: Submissions on this.
Speaker 8: So first we need to talk contextualize the kind of.
Speaker 2: Inflation that we are experiencing in Nigeria.
Speaker 8: It's a cost to push inflation and because of that,
Speaker 8: we need to also understand what is actually increasing cost
Speaker 8: of production our inflation baskets. Fifty percent of our inflation
Speaker 8: baskets is food and beverages, So what is driving the
Speaker 8: inflation of of food prices?
Speaker 2: In security? The government is already tackling that.
Speaker 8: We have I energy costs, you know, I I for
Speaker 8: a course, transport because of the subsidiary removal. Like like
Speaker 8: Carlo also said, I have lot just six problems, you know,
Speaker 8: in terms of supplying. So now for me, we need
Speaker 8: to look at the direction of the government and not
Speaker 8: to look at them depends that we're going through because
Speaker 8: of the reforms. It is not a switch that you
Speaker 8: put off and on and when you switch it on,
Speaker 8: all our.
Speaker 2: Problems going away.
Speaker 8: No, and these are problems that have been there for
Speaker 8: close to sixty years. So for me, the acturn of
Speaker 8: the government is well known now. And what investors need
Speaker 8: be local or finding is predictable predictability. So if investors
Speaker 8: are able to predict outcomes, then there will be more
Speaker 8: confident in investing. And I think that is the position
Speaker 8: of this government. And someone talked about ways, our means
Speaker 8: now twenty three how to fund infrastructure, our projects and all.
Speaker 8: Now this might sound good to the years, however this
Speaker 8: is a most extremely impossible. When you talk of infrastructure,
Speaker 8: you're you're talking about infrastructure, your still is being important,
Speaker 8: your cements, the prices are I already, So where you
Speaker 8: print more money for infrastructure, you are indirectly also increasing inflation.
Speaker 8: So for me, when we was a talk of productivity
Speaker 8: and productivity and productivity, we also need to understand that
Speaker 8: the government can only create an enable environment for production
Speaker 8: in terms of their policy directions. And however, ultimately it
Speaker 8: is the entrepreneurs. I disagree that we have a lot
Speaker 8: of entrepreneur and engurers. I disagree to tally. We have
Speaker 8: a lot of self employed people who just want to
Speaker 8: do things at the micro level are moved. However, when
Speaker 8: you're talking of entrepreneurs, you need significant players that will
Speaker 8: take the signific comes risk, and that's risk.
Speaker 2: You know, lenders have a very very low distap for tite.
Speaker 8: So when we talk of you know, when a productive
Speaker 8: when a productive one not productive, it's an indictment on
Speaker 8: us and not an indictment on the government personage. Now, also,
Speaker 8: were also need to realize that the government, and that
Speaker 8: is why I do not believe that the creation that
Speaker 8: one news states does not have its own Plus.
Speaker 2: You know, in any country, the government is the largest
Speaker 2: spender and also just the employer of labor.
Speaker 8: So I do not believe that the government does gonna
Speaker 8: have a duty.
Speaker 1: To increase.
Speaker 2: It's a number of employees. I do not believe that
Speaker 2: the government do not increase in size.
Speaker 8: However, yeah, however, yes, however, I also do.
Speaker 2: Not believe that we have a spending problem. I think
Speaker 2: we have more. We have more. We have a new
Speaker 2: problem than a spending problem. And I can give you
Speaker 2: a very.
Speaker 8: Small analogy Informusta have your man that is and in
Speaker 8: eighteen thousand and are and he has four kids.
Speaker 2: It's a revenue problem.
Speaker 8: There's nothing there is he can't there's he can't have
Speaker 8: any savings from that. There's there's no spending he wants
Speaker 8: to cost that will not affect.
Speaker 2: It's not out of living.
Speaker 8: So for me then here has a revenue problem. The
Speaker 8: revenue problem is being tackled by this administration that the family,
Speaker 8: believing the fact is increasing to the states on a
Speaker 8: monthly basis, who are able to reduce our depths to
Speaker 8: revenue ratio from about nineteen percent to about sixty four percent.
Speaker 2: Now, so for me that I try the.
Speaker 8: Government is taken is quite interesting. The exonomic out look
Speaker 8: for John twenty five is extremely positive. Will must also
Speaker 8: remain optimistic. However, I believe that it is school a bit.
Speaker 8: I believe that it could be done faster.
Speaker 2: But I believe that.
Speaker 8: John johny five is also going to be very great
Speaker 8: here for people who are going to look at the
Speaker 8: opportunities than having a feeling of and on an off
Speaker 8: switch where oh, if you don't put it on all
Speaker 8: of our problems with are you deminded this one?
Speaker 2: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot, a lot there to unpack, a
Speaker 1: lot there to unpack. If a family of four ends,
Speaker 1: let's even say fifty thousand, it's a revenue problem. I agree.
Speaker 1: What happens when you give that family of four extra
Speaker 1: fifty thousand, that's when we now know if it's a
Speaker 1: spending problem or a revenue problem. So this family ends
Speaker 1: fifty thousand, they are five of them, revenue problem. The
Speaker 1: family now gets a new fifty thousand revenue. The family
Speaker 1: take that money and invest in SyRI a farm or
Speaker 1: a store, or even go to learning skill. That's perfect.
Speaker 1: But if that family was niger I know what happened
Speaker 1: with that fifty million to th thousand. The man will
Speaker 1: marry three more wives and then have to take more children.
Speaker 1: So it's a spending problem. Spending is a choice that
Speaker 1: you make. Revenue is difficult for you to be a choice.
Speaker 1: Revenue is something that you have to earn. But spending
Speaker 1: is a choice. It is a Nigerian government that decided
Speaker 1: to spend on thirty six states. It's in the constitution.
Speaker 1: No one asked them to do it. They put it there.
Speaker 1: No money hasn't for to do security votes or to
Speaker 1: spend more money on importing and subsidizing pms than food
Speaker 1: a family must eat before they drive cars. The Nigeran
Speaker 1: government has never subsidized food in the history of Nigeria.
Speaker 1: They only subsidize PMS. This particular government past a law
Speaker 1: or a strategies to say they're going to import food
Speaker 1: at zero percent duty in July June last year. It's
Speaker 1: not being done as we speak, and that's why food
Speaker 1: is so expensive and has been added to the inflation.
Speaker 1: This is your own policy on them to decide they're
Speaker 1: going to do it. They haven't done it. Coming back
Speaker 1: to the issue of governments, adding, I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: you are truly not to say that the government needs
Speaker 1: to create more states, why not just create soundrance from
Speaker 1: the four states so every government comes the state. The
Speaker 1: reason why we can do because we can't afford it.
Speaker 1: When I start off, I said no states. Niger has
Speaker 1: igr What we call ig R in Niger is payroll tax.
Speaker 1: It's not more that the government is creating. It is
Speaker 1: a tax they are imposing on the payroll of the
Speaker 1: private sector. So the privacystor starts paying payroll IGR rule crash.
Speaker 1: So no state has diversified its economy based pull up
Speaker 1: igr it's eighty percent payroll tax pay ye Calabat tried
Speaker 1: to do diversification. It failed. So and this is all
Speaker 1: the six states was buja. No exception can survive if
Speaker 1: coulde What do you.
Speaker 2: Mean by that?
Speaker 8: Are you asking government to start owning businesses?
Speaker 1: No, I'm asking the government to create an enabling environment
Speaker 1: where the private sector can generate the tax revenues for
Speaker 1: the business apart from payroll taxes. In Nigeria, the ID
Speaker 1: is perro what okay, So let me listen. You only listen.
Speaker 1: I can listen to taxes for you.
Speaker 8: Don't hold on?
Speaker 2: That's what that's what. Let's use Lego as an example.
Speaker 8: Lego says, present listens that what do I actually even collecting?
Speaker 2: Is about this legal twenty percent of you know in terms.
Speaker 8: Of pay is that on twenty percent of your potentials?
Speaker 8: So if Lego said, is just collecting twenty percent of
Speaker 8: what can potentially collect?
Speaker 1: I you agree with me? You agree with me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, hold on, I'm good to lade with this point.
Speaker 8: So potentially you can collect twenty percent and you can't
Speaker 8: define that as woman is we would say that potentially.
Speaker 2: Perhaps we have a lot of task players that we've.
Speaker 8: Not been able to capture that are existing, that are
Speaker 8: aenning money. Perhaps you can also say, oh, potentially if
Speaker 8: you create more businesses, if are able to create more businesses,
Speaker 8: then potentially we can end this more so, it depends
Speaker 8: on what perspective you're looking at it from.
Speaker 2: So for me, like I you know, like you said, which.
Speaker 8: I don't agree with you, it is always going to
Speaker 8: form a major talk. Sermi is on a five person
Speaker 8: of any states idea in Nigia. So what you want
Speaker 8: to do, like your studies about crazy and every environment
Speaker 8: and you know, the creation of an enabling environment also
Speaker 8: be defined. So in terms of roads, are you building
Speaker 8: more roads, are you building plants?
Speaker 2: Let's just energin market like, let's.
Speaker 1: Just see it.
Speaker 8: So so we just say creating an enabling environment. And
Speaker 8: I think this is the problem that men of our
Speaker 8: governors have. We just use our blanketed m a say
Speaker 8: create an environment. They did not understand what remain by creating.
Speaker 2: An enable environment.
Speaker 8: Look, I cannot state, for instance, spending two point five
Speaker 8: billionaire our wedding for him, that is the definitely one
Speaker 8: of crazy and enable environment for its own people.
Speaker 2: So for me, I think as fast like you professionals
Speaker 2: like us. Mark starts.
Speaker 3: You know, Mark, we must.
Speaker 8: Stop using that statement and start, you know, speaking to
Speaker 8: the real things that actually create that enabling environment. One
Speaker 8: thing that I always talk about in.
Speaker 1: Legal Let me hang on, I think, I like, let
Speaker 1: me just make my point so you can continue. Right,
Speaker 1: So you've already agreed with me that legocy is already
Speaker 1: it's only doing twenty percent. There's the point I'm making
Speaker 1: that it's only twenty percent. You've already agreed with me
Speaker 1: on that. The point look at the eighty is state
Speaker 1: government exists with taxes. I'm not saying pay is bad.
Speaker 1: I'm saying the proportion of pay that makes up igr
Speaker 1: is is the monopoly. Pay has a monopoly on igr.
Speaker 1: V eighty is where the state should actually create wealth
Speaker 1: because V eighty forces you to create value in the state,
Speaker 1: then you tax that value. This is the point I'm
Speaker 1: going to. Legosy has got the deep sea port, so
Speaker 1: Legosy is going to end more V eighty from containers,
Speaker 1: from trucks, from hotels, from banks that come to Lego
Speaker 1: States to take advantage of that deep sea port in Lucky.
Speaker 1: This is the point I'm making. Creating the environment. With
Speaker 1: what Legos is doing with the rails, with the deep
Speaker 1: sea ports, with the storage food center in Lego State.
Speaker 1: This has to be replicated across all states. And it
Speaker 1: starts with the tax laws being changed to say that
Speaker 1: you cannot share V eighty on population and land masks,
Speaker 1: but on derivation. That's where I'm going to when I
Speaker 1: say enabling environment. No state today, including Legos, can survive
Speaker 1: if crude oil goes to fifteen dollars a barrel because
Speaker 1: the proportional legosy is making money from its payye on
Speaker 1: companies that are surviving on the same crude oil. We
Speaker 1: are not attacking. We're giving the best practice how it
Speaker 1: should go about the nation. We can't have an economy
Speaker 1: that is supposed to be the largest economy in West
Speaker 1: Africa and was once the largest economy in Africa depending
Speaker 1: one hundred percent Olympic clarifying ninety percent on crude oil.
Speaker 1: That's not an economy. You can't have an economy that way.
Speaker 1: So it's not there to go back and forth. I
Speaker 1: don't want to praise or that. I'm just saying every
Speaker 1: government has got to look. The laws have to change
Speaker 1: top level, that the bottom level creates, productivity, enhancing features,
Speaker 1: build roads, build storage, build power table was bringing error
Speaker 1: to Legos when it was the governor. What about today?
Speaker 1: Why is in Eron back in Legos.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I told you with all the things you said,
Speaker 3: but I used to say something that if there is
Speaker 3: no culture few then distance will still be an issue.
Speaker 2: Look at the Americans and look at Europeans. A largage
Speaker 2: American is entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: Look at.
Speaker 2: Almost everything you find in America. You can definitely.
Speaker 1: Yes, just the moment, I just agree him, he said,
Speaker 1: I just am not entrepreneurs. The most entrepreneural people Nigerians
Speaker 1: come come come to America. Everything they the Africans look
Speaker 1: at Nigerians. If Nigerians go into this sector, they follow us, Kenyans, Rwandance,
Speaker 1: Gambians wherever we okay, we don't want to go to
Speaker 1: important export or have they follow? So the most enter
Speaker 1: person compart earth is a Nigerian and.
Speaker 2: I don't agree. Fact where I go for this text
Speaker 2: on me to a blockchain. All you see Nigerians that
Speaker 2: are creating it.
Speaker 3: A lot of put that, but personally I feel that
Speaker 3: we are not economy in terms.
Speaker 2: Of quality quantity to population from the world entrepreneurship. It's
Speaker 2: another controversial team because you know why I'm saying this.
Speaker 2: If you look at the because Americans, for example, you find.
Speaker 3: Out that culture places YouTube Americans do see if you
Speaker 3: feel you see people losing money Bitcoin Americans, they don't
Speaker 3: feel that shame they talk about it.
Speaker 2: Your payers they feel that shame.
Speaker 3: Repair then fifty thouandlars you better on you look at
Speaker 3: you're all right, you know many of them don't pusure
Speaker 3: in this investment.
Speaker 2: So that's by the fact that you have those amenities,
Speaker 2: they don't take risks.
Speaker 20: So I think in Nigeria, I think it's a here
Speaker 20: like if you look at the middle class, look at
Speaker 20: some of the middle class, you look at boy, you
Speaker 20: look at your gener and you look at cultural generity.
Speaker 16: Then taking this ccility world people for example diaristic, you
Speaker 16: cannot do that. That's why you see even in terms
Speaker 16: of in the crypto market, we see liver their patterns
Speaker 16: bit coins.
Speaker 3: It's wrong a southeast. If you look at the Southwest,
Speaker 3: it's mixed. If you look at the lookt not it's
Speaker 3: more trus agriculture. It's also in the form of so
Speaker 3: obviously the conserv enterpreneur and strategy, but general you.
Speaker 2: Can we have the culture problem. Me I feel that
Speaker 2: it's metro problem. We see more.
Speaker 15: It's even more than building infrastructure because we just end
Speaker 15: up like we don't end up like, we don't end
Speaker 15: up like beautiful and this did ours. This is that
Speaker 15: people are not really producing more. It's just beautiful, just
Speaker 15: travel tourism.
Speaker 3: If we really want to change our entrepreneur we need
Speaker 3: to put the rabews deliver these those guys in front.
Speaker 3: I was arguing with somebody that says if presidents people said,
Speaker 3: okay that coult issues reform our civil service, trust, I
Speaker 3: can beat with you that Minister of Livestock is going,
Speaker 3: Minister of Money is going, and want all of the
Speaker 3: civil service. But do not allow these guys to do it.
Speaker 3: Because these guys can manage money. These guys understand the environment.
Speaker 3: These guys understand how to do with prim nows. This
Speaker 3: guys understand how to do with the legal poster. This
Speaker 3: guys understand how to But we don't allow these guys
Speaker 3: to take part of the economy. And it's very painful
Speaker 3: because we cannot use those books to solve nager problems.
Speaker 3: We need practical people that have shown resources to handle
Speaker 3: these problems. And that's why I like the Americans. The
Speaker 3: Americans where I like it for them, whether I like
Speaker 3: it or not. Successful people get rewarded. Successful people become
Speaker 3: ready for success. People impute matter lots. You can feel
Speaker 3: what it wants to do. You can see what different
Speaker 3: billners are doing. We don't have it in Nigeria Academy.
Speaker 3: So AC feel like we have to address the culture age.
Speaker 3: And again just for a record for move on, to
Speaker 3: move on to to Michael, to move on. Under no
Speaker 3: circumstance should any state be created in this country. Again,
Speaker 3: if you notice, it is only the military that created states,
Speaker 3: and they.
Speaker 1: Did a horrible job of it. Not just the states,
Speaker 1: the capitals. The capital of Pasava was put there because
Speaker 1: someone's wife was from there. Many states were created because
Speaker 1: the mint was going to retire to that place and
Speaker 1: they wanted to give him a state. Many local agment
Speaker 1: in Nigeria a creatic because one Ami guy wanted to
Speaker 1: have a local goverments area in his villagious no rhyme,
Speaker 1: no reason to come and say you want more states creation.
Speaker 1: We reach money now we reach legos start. The complained
Speaker 1: that the money they get from v eighty is being shared.
Speaker 1: You want to create tetty one new states. It's the
Speaker 1: same legos out They will take the money from a
Speaker 1: distribute to other states. Are aware of that? No new
Speaker 1: st see because you're talking about merging states not How
Speaker 1: can you, Oh my god, how can you say that
Speaker 1: thanking of for having more states, knowing our economic situation
Speaker 1: and the fact that I finik are not economically self sustaining.
Speaker 2: If it's madness, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I couldn't all stage running budgets, all staged running definicits,
Speaker 1: all stags today, run all.
Speaker 2: Of them good ones towards this galue. I couldn't be joking.
Speaker 1: It's a joke. It's a joke.
Speaker 3: Like several states, the agreements, people see it wants some prises.
Speaker 3: That's why I said that we have the cultural problem.
Speaker 3: People tell you that it brings more representation to the
Speaker 3: federal system that the manority is. Why do we see
Speaker 3: distance from the point of tribalism or from it this
Speaker 3: sentiment like what all expers and policemkers I said, Naturally,
Speaker 3: I can't even afford the present state of government I'm living.
Speaker 3: So this thing that we can meet to fifteen states,
Speaker 3: because in reality if you look at the night of
Speaker 3: the state, they don't do anything productivity.
Speaker 2: Let's be honest. From f gis to captime.
Speaker 1: States natural is in like five a month. I want
Speaker 1: when they borrowed money, many states do not do not
Speaker 1: make the money that then it bank branch mix. Then
Speaker 1: it bank branch makes more revenues than many states in Niger.
Speaker 2: Will come at that.
Speaker 3: And then the fact academic Prais Academy, Prais Lewis listed them.
Speaker 3: If you put them with some states, I'm telling you
Speaker 3: it won't in Southwestern so fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe maybe it was true, maybe maybe it
Speaker 1: was truly not maybe it was true true.
Speaker 3: Maybe you see the how do you see me? I
Speaker 3: see I see this time and I understand why people
Speaker 3: are saying that in one more for presentation, But I
Speaker 3: think we have to look at the fact that it
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be true states representation, The states itself
Speaker 3: are liabilities. The states itself is absolutely system. States yourself
Speaker 3: dividedly thaws. I remember being those states because you can't
Speaker 3: look if we look back at well young and things
Speaker 3: like that, when you had a few states, then those
Speaker 3: states was very it's more infected than yes, it's not
Speaker 3: just solved the issue.
Speaker 1: South Southeast South has developed better with IMO and a
Speaker 1: number end of story today, we just I don't know
Speaker 1: if you want to go there. So no more states
Speaker 1: were done. As a matter of I we go to
Speaker 1: If you want more replentation, push for parliamentary system, then
Speaker 1: create more councils. You know you can have one ten
Speaker 1: thousand constituencies, install every first have ten thousand constituencies and
Speaker 1: will have a parliamentary system. That makes sense to me
Speaker 1: that say created states, has first lady, office of first lady,
Speaker 1: come boy for a first lady, all these things, United
Speaker 1: States Security allowance. Do you think money will come to you?
Speaker 1: Put pushing for states? Think that they are brought become governor.
Speaker 1: It will become pre the government. That's why I push
Speaker 1: it of states, nothing else, nothing else. If you can't
Speaker 1: make it today with the sever stage, did you make
Speaker 1: it with sticks on the states? With Michael, Let's let's
Speaker 1: walk in your mind Michael, Yeah, yeah, thank.
Speaker 2: You and you so much for the educations over our life.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to mix reports.
Speaker 21: So firstly, I remember I think it's space indeed about
Speaker 21: three years, but I remember you give an analogy on
Speaker 21: We're you know, the.
Speaker 2: Government can create a system. We're instead of these private companies.
Speaker 21: The stars ready, they use the tax to create infrastructure
Speaker 21: for that state to ensure, you know, things go soon.
Speaker 2: Because that's the two for example, that pass system they
Speaker 2: get the government.
Speaker 21: The government gives them like I don't know if you
Speaker 21: say tax credit does the words used were? They use
Speaker 21: that more the you know, the view the roots for
Speaker 21: the states. They be the good will with the states.
Speaker 21: While over time the money that they ought to be
Speaker 21: paying for taxes the government, they use that to the government,
Speaker 21: you know, takes the revenue being generated from the railway
Speaker 21: gooles for that taxes.
Speaker 2: So that's just so I think that system can work.
Speaker 2: And saying Nigeria Nigerians are not are not are not entrepreneurs,
Speaker 2: I think it's one.
Speaker 8: Of the worst statements ever because for example, me, I'm
Speaker 8: a young man.
Speaker 2: I'm Buil twenty five years and there.
Speaker 21: Are some things that I'm even doing right now, even
Speaker 21: with the poor stage poor net one of the worst
Speaker 21: networks in the world with no electricity, not nothing worst.
Speaker 21: He's striving to make things better. There reason most Nigerias
Speaker 21: even going into flow these days, it's because they see
Speaker 21: that it's easy.
Speaker 2: Way because many of them have tried businesses, but the
Speaker 2: economic situation is not empowering.
Speaker 21: Them, is not making their business work. There's the average
Speaker 21: Ebo boy today, for example, wants to do business. The
Speaker 21: average Ninia letter but wants to do business.
Speaker 2: The problem is there is no support from anywhere. There's
Speaker 2: no support from the government to you know, to formd
Speaker 2: that their dream. Not I'm not talking about monetary now.
Speaker 21: I'm talking about providing the basic infrastructions. If we have
Speaker 21: twenty four hours electricity today, we have settin things.
Speaker 2: Just if even we just have tirty percent.
Speaker 11: Of the youth, they turn better and become productive, the
Speaker 11: economy is going to boom.
Speaker 21: I'm talking about like your like to taste, which risk
Speaker 21: and all that, you don't need to take very high
Speaker 21: risk to have reproductive economy. For example, people are basical
Speaker 21: people going into farm. They can sleep, you know, distribute
Speaker 21: their goods to several places in the world. They don't
Speaker 21: need to take big risk of I think it's even visas,
Speaker 21: venture capitals and all that area have so much money
Speaker 21: that we're talking about risks for not the average and
Speaker 21: generally wants to start the firm. The omasion you don't
Speaker 21: want to start. The firm is not seeing that as.
Speaker 2: A risky business. If he has a good way of
Speaker 2: transporting his roots across the country, I don't see any
Speaker 2: risk there. So that's that's the point I want to make.
Speaker 2: On one hand. Then secondly, I want to ask a question.
Speaker 21: I think I've been doing research on the gold standard,
Speaker 21: and I understand that the good standard inflation was less predictable,
Speaker 21: right because of the real situation. Well, for example, if
Speaker 21: good is discovered and use content in a particular place,
Speaker 21: it can.
Speaker 2: You know, affect inflation and all that board, I don't know.
Speaker 8: I during then I think inflation was more controllable rather
Speaker 8: than this our current feart system, were the government prints
Speaker 8: money continually.
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the arguments bitcoin proponents make.
Speaker 21: But I know that craising of money also feels what's
Speaker 21: the word, our productivity.
Speaker 2: We sow the US are that boomed in the US.
Speaker 21: So I'm thinking, which is a more balanced system. We
Speaker 21: have a good standard, very inflation you know, down and
Speaker 21: not very high.
Speaker 8: All these are our current fyard system.
Speaker 21: Where the government continued continues printing money and we experience concy,
Speaker 21: devaluation at a very high level.
Speaker 2: I think a great picture were somebody.
Speaker 21: Gave an analogy said, I think it just a lima
Speaker 21: analogy said, I think you are getting stronger in nineteen
Speaker 21: ninety five.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety five, it will take two men to
Speaker 2: carry fifteen the fifteen dollar of goods. It's take two
Speaker 2: men stillboards in twenty twenty four, given a five year
Speaker 2: old can't carry one hundred dollars of goods. So that's
Speaker 2: what I want to end.
Speaker 1: Thank you. So let me answer the same question. So
Speaker 1: if you had a small business, do you want to
Speaker 1: run that small business with only your revenues from sales
Speaker 1: or do you want a credit carden carriage.
Speaker 2: Definitely the loans boost the economy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, well yeah, yeah, so that's the answer.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: That's why governments prints money and ditch the gold standard.
Speaker 1: When you have a gold standard, you can't print money.
Speaker 1: You are only you can only print to the amount
Speaker 1: of gold you have. So it's good because there's no inflation,
Speaker 1: but it's bad because you can't grow if you have
Speaker 1: if you have a business need Lessay Nigeria, I was
Speaker 1: doing the gold standard. We will not have Kanji Dam
Speaker 1: because we can't borrow to build Caanji Dam. We have
Speaker 1: to save money enough gold then build Kanji Dam with
Speaker 1: the gold of reserves, so it's growth. Growth is slower,
Speaker 1: but you will have inflation. So it's in economies again,
Speaker 1: there's no right or wrong answer. There's just choices. You
Speaker 1: can decide to build Kanji Dam after saving four fifteen years,
Speaker 1: or you can build kanjy Dam today and then with
Speaker 1: debt and then paid back. So the gold standard means
Speaker 1: there's no credit card. But if you can borrow mess,
Speaker 1: you can print. That's deficit financing. The problem is that
Speaker 1: with the we're seeing the corruption of deficit financing, whereby
Speaker 1: we are printing money to pay salaries. There's no production
Speaker 1: there right, so that's why it looks like it's bad.
Speaker 1: An economy needs to have deficit financing. The Niger economy,
Speaker 1: if it was possible, borrow one trillion dollars, If it
Speaker 1: was possible borrow one trillion and invest it in productivity,
Speaker 1: invested in roads, rails, power supply, schools and hospitals, if
Speaker 1: it was possible, and that the money be will be
Speaker 1: spent without losing it. Once you spend that money, the
Speaker 1: one trillion will be repaid via productivity gains in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: I give you a classic example. If you have a barber.
Speaker 1: The barber cuts maybe ten people's ten heir whatever a day,
Speaker 1: so it makes maybe ten thousand Ira. But from that
Speaker 1: ten ton narraw, he has to pay five thousand Ira
Speaker 1: just to buy generator, feel for generator. Then he has
Speaker 1: to pay on that two thousand just to go back
Speaker 1: and forth on work. So already he has already spend
Speaker 1: seven thousand. He hasn't eaten, hasn't paid his salary. Seven
Speaker 1: thousand has gone from what the government would have provided
Speaker 1: him first forward. If you had spent that one trillion
Speaker 1: dollars in providing power supply, he would just pay his
Speaker 1: power bill. His parabi would be like five hundred dollars
Speaker 1: because he's the lower cost when he's on public power.
Speaker 1: Same thing with transportation. He will go on the subway
Speaker 1: and get to his place of work. So he's spending
Speaker 1: one thousand instead of seven thousand. What do you think
Speaker 1: he does with remaining six thousand. He's going to spend
Speaker 1: it and the economy grows on consumption, So he spends,
Speaker 1: he invests it is that spend and invest and the
Speaker 1: government is taxing to get back it is one trillion.
Speaker 1: So you see how the economy is called the circular economy.
Speaker 1: The problem with Nigeria is that if you give Nigeria,
Speaker 1: want not even borrow. If you dash nigeer if God
Speaker 1: comes down and says, hey, mister Tinobu, I've seen your
Speaker 1: good work. I support you. Here is one angel, Gabriel,
Speaker 1: give him one trillion. Do all what happened Tomorrow. National
Speaker 1: attemper will pass the build that all centers must drive
Speaker 1: Rose Royce and have a private jet in the local
Speaker 1: government area to do oversights. So we're gonna spend one
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars to build airport in all local government
Speaker 1: areas for national members. They will now spend two billion
Speaker 1: to build a brand new national Sabday complex in all
Speaker 1: the seven stage. You see what I'm going to do this.
Speaker 1: By the time you get to day five, we've spent
Speaker 1: nine hundred billion on nothing than private jets, rose rice
Speaker 1: and advertisements to tank where God for giving us one
Speaker 1: be trillion, So the money is lost. That's why we
Speaker 1: we we don't like to borrowing, but every economy grows
Speaker 1: by borrowing. No economy can grow. No business today can
Speaker 1: say it can grow without borrowing. So that's my answer
Speaker 1: to you. I'm not going to tell you go and
Speaker 1: bord not to prow, but I'm saying you have to
Speaker 1: choose which one you want if you want to have.
Speaker 3: Another problem without is that even when we're invested in
Speaker 3: fast structure is usually your own political lines. Yeah, argument,
Speaker 3: and you really want to invest in connect economic lines
Speaker 3: for example, we know the economic continent.
Speaker 2: They're not you know, you know, like actual.
Speaker 3: Functionality postings are not really in pree and you know
Speaker 3: these things also have an advantage. When you build an
Speaker 3: economic lines, you connect the country by the country, you
Speaker 3: strengthen the country security. So these are things we also
Speaker 3: need to look at because let me argue invest infrastructures.
Speaker 3: Don't argue that well the past administration.
Speaker 2: You spect too much more. But let's be honest, what's
Speaker 2: the value on this infrastructure? What is it breaking your
Speaker 2: building infrastructure that has go to the desert where you
Speaker 2: have to look at all these things. And that's why
Speaker 2: pretty much.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited about Dows refinery because if you look
Speaker 3: at the next in long term and the fact that
Speaker 3: it's also triggered Rabue to build a smaller one in
Speaker 3: a quiet but it's really good to integrate the country
Speaker 3: in the long term. I hope it does if it's
Speaker 3: properly implemented, because I'm hearing so many IPI people projects
Speaker 3: in different zones that will connect to So these are
Speaker 3: things that I really want.
Speaker 2: To look at.
Speaker 3: So many people about the peace, then talk about Usia
Speaker 3: on the economy.
Speaker 1: The most beautiful The most beautiful airport in Nigers in
Speaker 1: Jigawa State. If if you google it now, guys, the
Speaker 1: most beautiful airport you see Niger is in Jigawa. Been there,
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Just google it our online and I mean,
Speaker 1: I love people. But before this airport, Jigawa had a governor.
Speaker 1: I think it was the first guy samin Or. So
Speaker 1: his ownaha was his own IgM capital exponditure was he
Speaker 1: he gave Jigawa the first high speed internet in Nigeria.
Speaker 1: So before they goes got to high spined internet. The
Speaker 1: governor of Jigawa, he wasn't living in Jigawa. He was
Speaker 1: living in the Netherlands. Again Google, the governor of Jigawa
Speaker 1: was living in the Netherlands. So but his own capital
Speaker 1: investment was he gave Jagawa high speed internet that he
Speaker 1: will come from Netherlands two days to have to when
Speaker 1: they're sharing fac he'll share FAG. He will go back
Speaker 1: to Netherlands and Dubai. So according to the law of infrastructure,
Speaker 1: he built infrastructure. So what LOOM is in its own
Speaker 1: point infrastructure is not just building it, but with a plan.
Speaker 1: Last week or two weeks ago, I saw Lego State.
Speaker 1: We're spending sixty five million to connect the ports in
Speaker 1: Lego States, so they're going to be four pot there's
Speaker 1: tin can, there's a paper, there's the deep there's deep
Speaker 1: sea and all they don't connect all for I get it.
Speaker 1: That's fine.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't hit no Lego States. But if you leave
Speaker 1: Lego States, if you know Lego States properly, there's only
Speaker 1: one road living that Legos that's a jota. If you
Speaker 1: go to Daughta, you go western, you're heading towards Tourgate.
Speaker 1: That road Legos to a bell Guta, Legos to Baton
Speaker 1: has been built since nineteen ninety nine, is not being completed.
Speaker 1: They will tell you it's like now, boy, it's not
Speaker 1: completed since nineteen ninety nine, so we're still building le
Speaker 1: Goes to eat bad on nineteen ninety nine. That's the
Speaker 1: only road though. That's there's a ten lane express road.
Speaker 1: When it gets to toll Gate, it becomes falling. Was
Speaker 1: this sixth lane now we've not completed it. Where will
Speaker 1: they when you connect all these pots? Where will they
Speaker 1: pass through by road? Oh They're gonna go by rail?
Speaker 1: Oh wow, so I'm gonna go by rail. Okay. So
Speaker 1: Nigeria and now has a standard rail from Legos to
Speaker 1: eat bad On. Then it stops. Then we have a
Speaker 1: narrow gauge from Legos to Cano, but most of them
Speaker 1: are not working. If you look at the map of Nigeria,
Speaker 1: we have a railway line from Worry to attack By.
Speaker 1: It doesn't connect any big city. It's just in the
Speaker 1: center of Nigeria. Just standard gage line from Worry to
Speaker 1: attack By. Nothing else. Then if you look at the
Speaker 1: map from Nigeria, we have a line that goes from
Speaker 1: Abuja to Cana. Then it stops. You see what I'm
Speaker 1: going to do this no connection, no integration. What we
Speaker 1: can still be do is to connect the worry line,
Speaker 1: the worry line to the port. Right what is the port?
Speaker 1: So connect our worry line to the port. Then connect
Speaker 1: the worry line to Abuja Port. So from Kaduna it
Speaker 1: then becomes possible to send a containers straight to wor Report,
Speaker 1: but we haven't done it. We're chasing Maradi, cannot to
Speaker 1: Maradi real that will not be connected to nowhere. Again,
Speaker 1: they are narrow gauge, the standard gauge. The southeast of
Speaker 1: Niger that supports mid degree has narrow gauge. The southwest
Speaker 1: has standard gauge. Attack By is standard gauge. So in
Speaker 1: Nigeria we're gonna have two trains. A big one will
Speaker 1: be narrow gauge, one be standard gauge. You see the
Speaker 1: point I'm making. It's not organized. If you want to
Speaker 1: build infrastructure, you have to and let's be honest, you
Speaker 1: have to forget tribe and say you want to build
Speaker 1: some of that works. The gentlemen asked the question here
Speaker 1: why foods are expensive in Nigeria commodities because we don't
Speaker 1: have infrastructure. Kerby and Lego as signed a deal to
Speaker 1: do lake rice. Where is it today? Where's it today?
Speaker 1: If there was a train that went from Keby to Legos,
Speaker 1: Legos has got the largest most modern rice mill, perhaps
Speaker 1: in all of Africa. Legos or motor Rice meal. Keby
Speaker 1: has a huge amount of rice paddy. All that would
Speaker 1: happen Keby will load rice paddy in Keby, Legos to
Speaker 1: politic rize Lego chance to eat the cost of food
Speaker 1: to condown. But Legos has a rice rice meal with
Speaker 1: no rice farms. Keby has paddy, no no rails. Look
Speaker 1: at the look at the still complexes all across Nigeria.
Speaker 1: Every zone in Nigeria has a still complex apart from
Speaker 1: the Southeast zone. The Southeast zone is near on Natcha
Speaker 1: that has the research Institute Maeorlogical Research intitude and it's
Speaker 1: right next to the water. When we were building a
Speaker 1: jacuta just the diversion, guys, there was no delta state
Speaker 1: building a jacuta. A jacuta was to be built on
Speaker 1: the River Niger, anywhere on the River Niger. Why because
Speaker 1: you were to import the coke the coal and you
Speaker 1: can't import it on roads. It to damage out roads.
Speaker 1: There was no delta state.
Speaker 5: So they build the plowers to build that wall, report
Speaker 5: to bring in the limestone and coal moving up river
Speaker 5: to the to the steel plant that we built near
Speaker 5: on a chair.
Speaker 1: The iron ore would then come from a tack bay
Speaker 1: straight to then you bring the goods in and out
Speaker 1: thrue water not through bridge, not true road. Then what
Speaker 1: he needs to import sand? That's what's cold, cooke and
Speaker 1: col and limestone are.
Speaker 2: But what do we do?
Speaker 1: We do the Ajacuta will put the local jack. Then
Speaker 1: we put a steal plant in Cartina because we must
Speaker 1: do feder character. We put the steal plants in the shovel.
Speaker 1: Put a steal plant in Jos. What's the connection? Is there?
Speaker 1: A real life from a showbol to Jos is the
Speaker 1: reil life from Catina to to see what? See what
Speaker 1: I'm going to with these guys. Combat airports the largest,
Speaker 1: so all many not live airports. Free trade zones. Many
Speaker 1: states in Nigeria have three free trade zones. Some have
Speaker 1: two free trade zones. The entire southeast of Nigeria has
Speaker 1: one free trade zone. One that's one.
Speaker 2: Who know those one? One?
Speaker 1: Many states have three two states, but a region has one.
Speaker 1: This region has got the largest market in some time.
Speaker 1: Africa Nature the largest automotive class in Africa. Navy the
Speaker 1: largest semi cluster in sometimes Africa ABBA, but it has
Speaker 1: no free trade zone in that whole region. On the
Speaker 1: last day that good Luck left office, it created the
Speaker 1: in free trade zone to add to the Guangzoo futures
Speaker 1: in the Inmo States. But what is the point. Why
Speaker 1: couldn't you say, Wow, these guys are doing semi exports,
Speaker 1: let's give their free trade zone, link it with all
Speaker 1: the other freeon in Nigeria and we have an export
Speaker 1: economy or local economy, but we won't do it. Who
Speaker 1: will use big English and cover this thing? That is
Speaker 1: what is claimed Nigeria. I've said it before, I'm ending now.
Speaker 1: The worst policy that Nigeria ever enacted was the Federal
Speaker 1: Character policy. And you think I'm saying because I'm Ego
Speaker 1: and I'm being trible. No, When Pa Latinobu was the
Speaker 1: governor of Legos, he brought enern to Legos and he
Speaker 1: wanted to get Eryone's budges to supply power to Legostate.
Speaker 1: He couldn't do it. Do you know why because according
Speaker 1: to fair character, this is not written anywhere or that
Speaker 1: power must first of all go to national greed before
Speaker 1: it gets to legosity. It doesn't make any sense to
Speaker 1: anybody that a governor will bring a badge for power,
Speaker 1: then the power will now go to national agreed, the
Speaker 1: national good, the power to legosty. Oh why so of
Speaker 1: course the budges went away till today we have and
Speaker 1: we don't anything no federal character. This excessive spending spend.
Speaker 1: My calling to tribe that we most build still plants
Speaker 1: in all geographical areas, not where they still still industry
Speaker 1: or still resources are located. Is why Nigeria is poor today.
Speaker 1: Go and write it down. It's not you don't have to.
Speaker 1: Federal character is what brought fuck. Without federal character, you
Speaker 1: do not have fuck without fuck, you not have quota.
Speaker 1: It's the same nonsense that we must do. Whole economy
Speaker 1: was grow at the same piece. So when empty and
Speaker 1: came empty and has to set up in legos and
Speaker 1: all the things. So LPN did not have to do that.
Speaker 1: Empty and started off with with Legos. Then they went
Speaker 1: to Abuja, then they went all across Nigeria. Imagine if
Speaker 1: we told empty to follow to follow federal character, so
Speaker 1: Anon will start up being kavy in Abia before they
Speaker 1: do anything. It doesn't make any sense. So we've got
Speaker 1: to really face the issue. Spending is tied to that
Speaker 1: character and you've got to get rid of further character.
Speaker 1: It's just not possible to delve that that or that note.
Speaker 1: With that, let me move over to I've got Nigeria
Speaker 1: any sorry, nig analysis. You've got the flow who take
Speaker 1: says we'll teket you to do Techniger, go ahead, what's your.
Speaker 2: Good? Calu Goodive me sir so or love me do
Speaker 2: mikell and do. Everyone here that has.
Speaker 11: Been contributing, I've enjoyed the conversation, and ah.
Speaker 2: It's been it's been exhilarating.
Speaker 9: I want to come in from the point of trying
Speaker 9: to harness and synthesize all what you guys have been saying.
Speaker 9: And Calu, your your last point, A couple of points
Speaker 9: you made that is the heart of all this problem.
Speaker 9: For me, I'm an economist, so I leave spending. Spending
Speaker 9: is not bad. But our issue in Nigia is government
Speaker 9: spending has been for a long time, for decades, has
Speaker 9: been inefficient and unproductive, largely inefficient and unproductive our government spending.
Speaker 9: Our governments spend some things that don't drive productivity in Nigia.
Speaker 9: And so how do we solve this kind of problem.
Speaker 9: We need to get our politics right. Although me, they
Speaker 9: were saying we have a cultural problem. You Nigerians don't
Speaker 9: have that interest in investment, in financial activity. I'll tell
Speaker 9: you I don't know if if that is very true,
Speaker 9: but you would know that Nigea have a passion for
Speaker 9: investing when you see the rate at which the number
Speaker 9: of persons who did on treasure bills and man issue
Speaker 9: bonds for a said what the government has available to distribute.
Speaker 2: So nagers want to invest, but they are scared.
Speaker 9: If you tell if they are scared, they have trust issues,
Speaker 9: and that is because we are any climate where that doesn't.
Speaker 2: How do I put it now? We are any climate.
Speaker 9: We're bad actors are allowed to thrive. We're bad at
Speaker 9: tours can serve the law.
Speaker 2: We are any climate. We're the rule of law.
Speaker 9: Takes the bad seats in our in our collective life.
Speaker 2: For us to get it right, we have to get
Speaker 2: our policies right. That is my point.
Speaker 5: It is when we get our politicies right that will
Speaker 5: have development across development that comes.
Speaker 2: Across all of Nangier.
Speaker 9: For example, you guys have been making points and you
Speaker 9: are largely referring to Legos as if Legals is the
Speaker 9: only state in Nngier.
Speaker 2: But our economy, like.
Speaker 9: Legos, is the heart and soul of economic activities.
Speaker 5: In Nangier right now, if not for the banditry and
Speaker 5: the the the terrorism that has over around, then they
Speaker 5: know who have been very, very prosperous because the note
Speaker 5: was like the notes and the middle pad was like
Speaker 5: the full basket of the nation.
Speaker 2: But right now its that it seems like there is.
Speaker 9: An underground work to ensure that we don't even get
Speaker 9: food in this country. And it's all of these problems,
Speaker 9: all of these problems boils down to our policies. Who
Speaker 9: are our leaders, Who are our leaders? Who are the
Speaker 9: presidents representing us? If we get our policies right, then
Speaker 9: we have leaders.
Speaker 2: Who spend right. If you are supposed to spend on roots,
Speaker 2: if you're supposed to spend on dams.
Speaker 9: If you're supposed to spend on tricity, if you're supposed
Speaker 9: to spend.
Speaker 2: On our.
Speaker 5: Lookal the finally our state owned, the final a reisold
Speaker 5: that they are producing. If you're supposed to spend in
Speaker 5: our ja quta stealing and get it working within.
Speaker 2: Two three years if you if you have the.
Speaker 9: Right leadership, if you have the right politicians in Anjuria, they.
Speaker 1: Will do it.
Speaker 21: So again again again.
Speaker 9: You'll find that during elections when it comes to elections.
Speaker 2: When it comes to voting, we take it like a joke.
Speaker 9: It is due election on election day, that is when
Speaker 9: some people want to organize football matches in the streets.
Speaker 9: And then when bad at us managed to grab our
Speaker 9: we spend the four years kind of our eyes out.
Speaker 2: Look at our.
Speaker 9: Voter Tonal during election, just twenty seven percent American connected election.
Speaker 2: Recently they had a turnout of six I think sixty
Speaker 2: seven or sixty six percent.
Speaker 5: Our politics in Nigeria is very wrong and it is
Speaker 5: at the foundation of all our problems.
Speaker 2: So please, I what I just want to to end.
Speaker 5: I want to play with you or whatever platform you have, whatever.
Speaker 2: Means you have to communicate to nine gans.
Speaker 9: Please always send the message.
Speaker 2: Across to them that they should go and vote. Fourteen
Speaker 2: should be it is.
Speaker 5: If you tell them this a civic Priston's ability, it
Speaker 5: will look like another joke.
Speaker 2: Tell them it is manday, so they should go and vote.
Speaker 2: Maybe if we go and vote, will.
Speaker 5: Managed to get our leader, our politics right, managed to
Speaker 5: get the right leaders in place.
Speaker 2: Who effects the change, the positive change that we need.
Speaker 2: On that note, I will yield demand for someone. Thank you, guys,
Speaker 2: Thank you Nigia.
Speaker 3: Okay, Nagia, and now this is thank you so much
Speaker 3: before I go to I think the context.
Speaker 22: Is that.
Speaker 3: Despite our political problems econmomy problems.
Speaker 23: There's still light because you know, you know, things I
Speaker 23: like about financial markets is that you have to have optimism.
Speaker 23: For you to be successful, you have to you have
Speaker 23: to be positive. And when I say you have to
Speaker 23: be positive, you have to look at the positive side
Speaker 23: of things.
Speaker 2: It's a topic economy, food inflation.
Speaker 3: You know, it's so high the areage that you spends
Speaker 3: about sixty percent always in.
Speaker 2: Common food, a loan.
Speaker 3: So when it's very sadful when we sieve many people
Speaker 3: not taking advantage of opportunities in Naderia market, you know,
Speaker 3: And that's why we created this piece for and Color
Speaker 3: has been doing so much on trying to preach a
Speaker 3: financial placy because, whether I like it to notes, the
Speaker 3: most important thing is how to be ready advanced. You know,
Speaker 3: while we can be trained, tantrumshgling, debating, it's how it
Speaker 3: makes an impact and that matter as most and I often.
Speaker 2: Say that, see you guys.
Speaker 3: Yes, while we're discussing our problems, a lot of people
Speaker 3: are doing things and quiet are making the beds because
Speaker 3: you see, if you look at the last two three years,
Speaker 3: people that are still bet on Nigeria despite the tough
Speaker 3: and colony are big winners. If you look at the
Speaker 3: Nigel and richest men, they are richer. They ad narrow
Speaker 3: evaluation and I've always argued with people. I says, see,
Speaker 3: let's do the mask. Why is the really Richard? Why
Speaker 3: is Dantis still reature?
Speaker 2: Why is well.
Speaker 3: Even in value time, the value times if you look
Speaker 3: at the air, the the the rice for goods, the
Speaker 3: privacy for goods is still high because they found a
Speaker 3: way of passing course through consumer I think we really
Speaker 3: need to channel our discussion and how to improve ourselves
Speaker 3: because we don't need to confront ourselves. And that's why
Speaker 3: I try to stay away from tribout discussions.
Speaker 2: I try to stay from postcardations.
Speaker 3: But naturally for to work, we really need to have
Speaker 3: asset to ourselves that we have differences, but would we
Speaker 3: believe in want Nigeria and as long as the years won't,
Speaker 3: we have to.
Speaker 2: Make it work.
Speaker 3: And that's why I say, guys, bat on people that
Speaker 3: are making things upon try and take us value system,
Speaker 3: empower yourself, go to school, take courses online, those pendal times,
Speaker 3: kids making and things like that.
Speaker 2: That for me is the best way to really.
Speaker 3: Become the advanced because see we can sit still the
Speaker 3: twelve million diets and we all know that if we
Speaker 3: don't have value the.
Speaker 2: System, we don't listen to us. We can this system.
Speaker 3: We can only listen to us if we ourselves also
Speaker 3: producing value, so that I will go to LA school.
Speaker 2: It's all thank you. Agree with thank you, Carrol fort
Speaker 2: of consonations. So I would I will agree with some
Speaker 2: of the things Carlor have said.
Speaker 24: But before I dive into that, going with your last comments,
Speaker 24: yes it's not good to bring the qualities or.
Speaker 22: You know, ethnic issues in finance. But we have to
Speaker 22: also at some points called space is spaid.
Speaker 2: Because if we are not able to speak out on
Speaker 2: some of some of the only issues, that we may
Speaker 2: not be able to get this right now. I want
Speaker 2: to speak on what Klo said on the a of
Speaker 2: it is a good one of.
Speaker 22: Free trade zone, our ports the country see the need
Speaker 22: the country Nigeria.
Speaker 2: So it said, Yah, it's.
Speaker 25: Need to be set in the food with the way
Speaker 25: the unit is to do some of the national assets
Speaker 25: on your first structure.
Speaker 1: In the country.
Speaker 2: Right in Legos, we have the Upper Pact Complex Ports
Speaker 2: complex which is the main port. We have tea talent,
Speaker 2: We have my two ports. We have now three trade
Speaker 2: zone lectly free trade zone in one six right now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have only reports and protaponts.
Speaker 1: We have wor reports.
Speaker 2: We have a bad port, we have furnature. You known ports.
Speaker 2: It is small ports. You know. Now you you ask
Speaker 2: yourself something.
Speaker 1: You can come here and.
Speaker 8: Say that, oh, neport has been working for a while,
Speaker 8: he has.
Speaker 2: Been there all alone. Why are people not using the
Speaker 2: ports now? I don't know about reason before.
Speaker 25: If you're in the US or you're around the world,
Speaker 25: are you engaged if you think of probably you know
Speaker 25: to run your content or if you're doing a car
Speaker 25: or rural open ship shipment and your sheep in complete?
Speaker 26: You know when if you're used from shipping compact patter before.
Speaker 2: Once you go to right here to.
Speaker 26: Nigeria, the only ports you will see in the drop
Speaker 26: down list is thin and a Papa pot.
Speaker 2: You can't you can't go to any You can't do anything.
Speaker 2: I don't know about recently, but when I used to
Speaker 2: do shipping into Nigeria.
Speaker 26: You can't go to any shipping company or working with
Speaker 26: any ship in compact patter and you you you select
Speaker 26: Nigeria as its lake on and you will see or
Speaker 26: let you see Calaba.
Speaker 2: You will see or you want to see them. It
Speaker 2: is only least true that you can see. So where?
Speaker 2: Why why is that the case?
Speaker 24: Why can't I stay in the US maybe Gavaston in
Speaker 24: Texas and select my basiness to bet or Calaba if
Speaker 24: they are actually walking because others.
Speaker 2: Have been mad or it is you people that I'm
Speaker 2: not using the port. It's like you know that I'm
Speaker 2: not using the people that are in the southeast. Why
Speaker 2: can't they go I'm.
Speaker 24: Through the appoint in Calaba or in in the waing
Speaker 24: is because is anybody stopping them?
Speaker 2: I recall when Carlo was treating a bottle of distance
Speaker 2: those who are some of the comments that are covenant
Speaker 2: in this comments. Is everybody stopping you from using reports
Speaker 2: or on their ports or kind of reports?
Speaker 24: But sit in China or Corea, I want to shift
Speaker 24: in those ports and see whether these those sports are
Speaker 24: you doing?
Speaker 2: Billing poo for you to even select what memory happens
Speaker 2: is all what all the ships come to? Upper particle?
Speaker 2: People now who move using small as sheep or whatever
Speaker 2: moving to or I don't think I don't think you
Speaker 2: can see they.
Speaker 11: I don't know how it.
Speaker 2: Has changed recently in the last one, I'm.
Speaker 26: Happier or what I'm telling you before now those block
Speaker 26: ports are not available for destination and some of these
Speaker 26: things are for you know, is because that's why I
Speaker 26: said that we are a second the truths as a country.
Speaker 26: What stuffs our presidents, our leaders to say? They say,
Speaker 26: though that has been given to on to upper pack tinker,
Speaker 26: why don't you why don't you make all that costs
Speaker 26: for wark.
Speaker 2: So that anywhere in the work people can select it
Speaker 2: really from forts. And that's it and the deal.
Speaker 24: Even if even if we know that almost all the
Speaker 24: sheeps that are coming from the US, all of them
Speaker 24: go through all the Aguran countries, they go to.
Speaker 26: Better republic as the Otul when when they're finishing to
Speaker 26: do they will talking thinking when they fish from that
Speaker 26: the way they will be moving.
Speaker 2: Why don't they?
Speaker 24: Why don't they move all your way even to they
Speaker 24: all your way to Colaback?
Speaker 2: Why would he?
Speaker 24: Why would everything is proper, thinker proper. It's not that
Speaker 24: you will not leaders were as to be able to
Speaker 24: take taste if you want to.
Speaker 2: Go to Klaba or you want to go to Worry
Speaker 2: or you want to go to one. We're not talking
Speaker 2: to myself the truth. Yeah, I feel that there is.
Speaker 26: It's a Debreaks attempts to make such in places in
Speaker 26: the country.
Speaker 2: Actually he just to keep it goes off some advantage
Speaker 2: over the orders. It is. It's that that's song we've
Speaker 2: seen you haven't seen it. I think in that first
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 24: Okay, that's that's two percent, since two percent of the
Speaker 24: old disciplement on then as a comunity until I end up.
Speaker 2: In the South East and south south. So Robot, every businessman.
Speaker 3: That I use this as a port, they are y, yeah,
Speaker 3: Goodena doesn't.
Speaker 2: End up in legal it's also always move or you
Speaker 2: move somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think the points. But let's tie
Speaker 1: this back into the the spending we're talking about. I
Speaker 1: think Caliber Port, Worry Port, Calabaras wants dredging. I think
Speaker 1: that's an issue with with with Caluba port treading because
Speaker 1: it's in a stilled area. He needs consistent treading, which
Speaker 1: we can afford. The one in Worry they've dredged it.
Speaker 1: But the guy I read this paper. The notice I
Speaker 1: read said they still don't have these big ships. Why
Speaker 1: you don't you see those ships coming to those other ports?
Speaker 1: Is very simple. Ships moved by volume, right, it doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense to go to on air if there's
Speaker 1: no volume. So the volume goes to the Tinkhan and
Speaker 1: Purport and the largest ports for transhipment in West Africa.
Speaker 1: You're drop it off in Legos. Better republic come and carried.
Speaker 1: So Nijer would it would favor us more to build
Speaker 1: this massive port. Cameroon is building one from China, Togo
Speaker 1: is building one from China. Massive ports narrows and they
Speaker 1: are targeting Nigeria. That's what they're doing. So Nigeria would
Speaker 1: might might seek to say, well, we're going to focus
Speaker 1: only in Legos, but West Africa is building ports just
Speaker 1: on our borders to target the folks that were ignoring.
Speaker 1: Let me put it as simple as I can. If
Speaker 1: Nigeria does not capture the trade that is going to
Speaker 1: go to the south, south, southeast, even to the northeast
Speaker 1: of the country, they will come through Cameroon. The port
Speaker 1: in Kroun is there for Nigerians. They will put it
Speaker 1: in Cameroon. And drive it into Nigeria, and Nigeria will
Speaker 1: lose the revenue. Same for the for the ones that
Speaker 1: are happening in Nitia and all that. So Nizia's built
Speaker 1: a refinery by past Nigeria. So let's not cut off
Speaker 1: our nose to spider our face and lose out in
Speaker 1: the end. You know, Nigeria is only powerful when we
Speaker 1: are together. That's the that's the truth. If we start
Speaker 1: to segment, I'm looking this at the very beginning. If
Speaker 1: we start to segment everything to say that we're going
Speaker 1: to put a road in this area, will put it,
Speaker 1: that is not nothing's gonna happen. Will do so many roads,
Speaker 1: nothing will get done. We're doing Legos to Calabar, We're
Speaker 1: doing bears It, We're doing Socoto to Legos high personic
Speaker 1: express road. It's not gonna get done because you're over
Speaker 1: stretching yourself. You have no money for that. There's no
Speaker 1: money for that. We have an existing East West road
Speaker 1: that has not been completed. Focus on completing these road
Speaker 1: so the food costs come down. That's the spending again
Speaker 1: we're talking about. You might even spend the money legally,
Speaker 1: but you are missuspending by spending or what's not going
Speaker 1: to be productive. That's on that point of we've got
Speaker 1: the floor. Oky, thank you so much for that. Please
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 2: Okay, Cayl, thank you very much. Well, what I want
Speaker 2: to say is this. You know, when we talk about
Speaker 2: the state government.
Speaker 27: And one of your previous spaces I could remember who
Speaker 27: we do was hammering why is the government of fair
Speaker 27: RIVERSTD not doing anything about day on their part calabaa.
Speaker 9: That they're doing and the other We see the problem
Speaker 9: in Nigeria most times.
Speaker 11: I look at it that the people we've had as leaders,
Speaker 11: we are electing fools, people who can.
Speaker 2: Not think straight. Let's language language, Okay, no problem, because
Speaker 2: this is the problem. We keep on praising Lego state governments.
Speaker 5: For what is going on in Legos. That's not how
Speaker 5: it works. Imagine if they cross Reversted government decides to invest.
Speaker 2: In calaber Port.
Speaker 28: What Caliber Port would do is to serve this south,
Speaker 28: south and the southeast. The government will be targeting the
Speaker 28: nature because of the amount of goods that are coming
Speaker 28: into our nature.
Speaker 2: They want to take it over from legals. But do
Speaker 2: you know what the problem?
Speaker 11: What the problem will be the East West Road, which
Speaker 11: is the federal government route is in a terrible state.
Speaker 2: Big trucks cannot lie that route. So you say that
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, if.
Speaker 11: The Cross River state governments invents huge amounts of money
Speaker 11: in that port, they will not be able to recoup
Speaker 11: it because the Ownator and other parts of southeast which
Speaker 11: is the target, is not accessible.
Speaker 2: So most times we blame steed governments.
Speaker 11: Do you know that in keep States they produce large
Speaker 11: amounts of tomatos and rice? But now we keep on
Speaker 11: talking about the Keepy State government why they're not making
Speaker 11: enough money. They are collecting money from legos and are
Speaker 11: sending it to the goose tomatos and rice that have
Speaker 11: been produced in Keepy State and mot get to legos,
Speaker 11: they cannot get to our nature, They cannot get to
Speaker 11: our back, They cannot get to a budget where the
Speaker 11: consumption is needed. So how do they even get back
Speaker 11: the money? Farmers, those people who are supposed to be
Speaker 11: farmers there a lot of them will get frustrated and
Speaker 11: they will leave and come to legos and prefer to
Speaker 11: start doing any menial job to raise money, because even
Speaker 11: farming in Keepy State is not look creative. After farming,
Speaker 11: where are you going to take it to So most
Speaker 11: times there is nothing more watch that these state governments
Speaker 11: could do except we start telling ourselves the truth and
Speaker 11: the figure government comes in.
Speaker 2: And the worst about it is.
Speaker 11: The way we spend We're talking about East Westwood, We're
Speaker 11: talking about legosy about the expressway. See what is happening
Speaker 11: in Legos. Let's give it time except we diversify and
Speaker 11: we make other paths of Nigeria a productive by connecting
Speaker 11: them with rails and good roots. And if we continue
Speaker 11: like this, Legos will get overwhelmed. That at the moment
Speaker 11: all those trucks taking containers to our nature from Legos,
Speaker 11: they are having big challenge in billying the papers.
Speaker 2: Express rood the pipers in Belli is in a terrible shape.
Speaker 11: Trucks are falling down, containers are falling down on daily basis.
Speaker 11: So what happens some people are.
Speaker 2: Closing shop in more Nature going to Legos.
Speaker 11: Now posess that leg Gos get over crowded and they
Speaker 11: can't even make profit.
Speaker 2: What would they do is it that they leave the
Speaker 2: country or they go out of business.
Speaker 11: So until we begin to do the right thing connect infrastructure,
Speaker 11: all these problems, some costs cannot be effective airpoint.
Speaker 2: States can produce.
Speaker 28: Gary, but they produce Gary and Gary get sports in
Speaker 28: their states.
Speaker 11: They can't even transport it out before it gets to
Speaker 11: an um, before it gets to evening.
Speaker 2: Look that it's very close to the rest of them
Speaker 2: as sports.
Speaker 11: So except we begin to fix the reil lines, connect
Speaker 11: them to the right places, fix the road.
Speaker 2: We're doing those to roads. When East Westwood is not working.
Speaker 1: We got to move on. Yeah, I think if you
Speaker 1: made the point, it's very very clear. Guys, nearly three
Speaker 1: hours spent. Let us call it. Call today, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna get cool. I've got cool, We've got vers neck,
Speaker 1: and then we'll get Magid and then we just call today.
Speaker 1: Just three guys that I hear, I do apologize three
Speaker 1: hours and it's a partially your top because it's our money,
Speaker 1: is our tax money, and we want to have this
Speaker 1: one trillion economy. President has has has promised the way
Speaker 1: you get to a trillion is to spend. Right, that's
Speaker 1: one way you get to a trillion. Let me get
Speaker 1: to Majid. I've got much my hagit it brought him
Speaker 1: is that you, sir Magid? Please go ahead, Magid? All right,
Speaker 1: let's get first vase. No, I can't. I can't represent name. Mister.
Speaker 1: You gotta put how to say you gotta put like
Speaker 1: the explainer, how to say it? Dont thinking? Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: please go ahead. I don't Are you still there? I
Speaker 1: think it dropped off. It looks like it's you vast
Speaker 1: Look I didn't. I just told you. Philips, hm, cooler, Phillips.
Speaker 1: You've got the floor. I didn't touch anyone. First look
Speaker 1: is gone. We try again. Cooliftis has also gone. What's happening? Guys?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Go ahead? Yes, what's right? You take your audio upper pitch.
Speaker 1: You're gonna take us home. You're gonna be last weaker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your audience kind of low. Your audio is low. Yeah,
Speaker 1: try again. If not, you can run it up.
Speaker 2: Live.
Speaker 1: So yeah, audi is very low, Bro, I can't hear.
Speaker 1: You're very very low. Your audience very low. I think
Speaker 1: it's a t Yeah. I think it's been a day, right,
Speaker 1: three hours, three hours here basically talking about things that
Speaker 1: are passionate for us. We thought we even went through
Speaker 1: investments and all that, but the the the summary is
Speaker 1: still the same. We are not spending and investing in
Speaker 1: the most productive way we could do it. Better. You know,
Speaker 1: We know the government has a lot it has to take.
Speaker 1: It's easy for us to sit here.