Speaker 1: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 1: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 1: written about them Gaesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every
Speaker 1: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 1: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 1: journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 2: Good evening Connected by Fate, unfolds against the haunting backdrop
Speaker 2: of the Ozark National Forest, where the unresolved murder of
Speaker 2: Melissa Witt has cast a long shadow over the dense
Speaker 2: woodlands for almost three decades. The mystery woven into the
Speaker 2: fabric of the remote mountaintop has become part of the
Speaker 2: lore of the land, with the true identity of the
Speaker 2: murderer eluding capture concealed by the forest's imposing presence, enter
Speaker 2: Lodonna Humphrey. Driven by a profound sense of justice and
Speaker 2: a personal commitment to uncovering the truth. Despite never having
Speaker 2: met Melissa Witt, La Donna's connection to the case transcends
Speaker 2: the ordinary, fueling her with a relentless determination that has
Speaker 2: defined her life for almost a decade. Loadonna's investigation is
Speaker 2: a riveting narrative of courage, resilience, and an unwavering pursuit
Speaker 2: of truth in the face of overwhelming odds. Each breakthrough
Speaker 2: and set back, each clue onearthed and lead followed, draws
Speaker 2: her deeper into a web of intrigue that extends far
Speaker 2: beyond the crime. Connected by Fate is more than a
Speaker 2: true crime story. It's a testament to the power of
Speaker 2: human spirit and determination, fueled by the knowledge that solving
Speaker 2: Melissa's murder is not just about bringing a killer to justice.
Speaker 2: It's about restoring dignity to a life cut tragically short,
Speaker 2: and offering closure to a community haunted by the specter
Speaker 2: of an unsolved crime. The book that we're featuring this
Speaker 2: evening is Connected by Fate Who Killed Melissa Wit Book two,
Speaker 2: with my special guest, investigative journalist, documentary filmmaker, and author,
Speaker 2: the Donna Humphrey. Good evening and welcome back to the program.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for this interview, the Donna Humphrey.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure
Speaker 3: to be a guest on your show.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, and congrats on this Connected
Speaker 2: by Fate.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm really proud of this particular book and
Speaker 3: I'm really proud of the work that's been done to
Speaker 3: get us to this place. So I'm excited to talk
Speaker 3: to you about it today.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, as you do in the forward, by Seeking Justice
Speaker 2: co host Lexi Cacus, we emailed you first in April
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and she had started at Uncovered, a
Speaker 2: crowdsource cold case database with a true crime community, and
Speaker 2: you met up with her at Crime Con in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: Tell us what Lexi Cacus has to say in the
Speaker 2: ford about this book and your work.
Speaker 3: Lexi, as you mentioned, she and I we originally met
Speaker 3: through an email and just really could see the passion
Speaker 3: that she had for cold cases. But she was particularly
Speaker 3: intrigued about the Melissa Wit case, and so you know,
Speaker 3: she did reach out to me. We met up at
Speaker 3: Crime Con and then we continued to build a relationship,
Speaker 3: and really through the forward she really touches on my
Speaker 3: work on the Wit case, how it's inspired her work
Speaker 3: on cold cases, but then the work that you know
Speaker 3: then she's also contributed to the Wit case, and so
Speaker 3: I was really proud of her. I've really watched her
Speaker 3: kind of grow up in her own investigative right since
Speaker 3: we first met, and I was really honored that she
Speaker 3: was willing to write the forward and to kind of
Speaker 3: touch on all of the hard work and the things
Speaker 3: that she has seen take place over the years that
Speaker 3: I've tackled the Wit case. So that's really kind of
Speaker 3: the gist of the of the forward, and I'm just
Speaker 3: I'm honored by it just thinking about it now.
Speaker 2: Right away, you take us to Bowling World parking lot
Speaker 2: with retired detectives J. C Ryder and Chris Boyd. Tell
Speaker 2: us what this significance of this location is and what
Speaker 2: are you doing there and what you trying to ascertain?
Speaker 2: What are you trying to learn?
Speaker 3: So the Bowling World parking lot is the last known
Speaker 3: place that Melissa ever was seen alive. That's where the
Speaker 3: blitz attack took place when she was attacked and kidnapped,
Speaker 3: And we revisited that scene on that afternoon as we're
Speaker 3: taking a deeper dive looking back at the case. What
Speaker 3: clues could we have missed? Really, they wanted to teach
Speaker 3: me a little bit about the crime scene as well
Speaker 3: and get a real feel for really how close she
Speaker 3: was to the building, how close she was to safety,
Speaker 3: how brazen this attacker was. So that was really like
Speaker 3: the point of it, that particular day was just like
Speaker 3: a lesson in this is what happened and how it happened,
Speaker 3: to help kind of further my own personal investigation into
Speaker 3: the case and to kind of reignite what they were
Speaker 3: trying to do with the case as well.
Speaker 2: You talk about you could take us back to December one,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four. You take note of your notebook and
Speaker 2: you have a crude outline of events from that December first,
Speaker 2: and one of those is from six thirty to six
Speaker 2: forty pm, a witness here's a woman shouting in the
Speaker 2: parking lot. Take us to what that witness hears.
Speaker 3: It's believed that that was Melissa Witt, and that the
Speaker 3: witness hears her yelling helped me. And you know, that's
Speaker 3: pretty pivotal for the case because we know there was
Speaker 3: an altercation in the parking lot, you know, and it
Speaker 3: also gives us the ability to kind of set a timeline.
Speaker 3: So that's incredibly important to the case, and it's one
Speaker 3: of the reasons why I wanted to include it in
Speaker 3: the book, so people can really understand how a timeline
Speaker 3: is constructed in a case like this and how few
Speaker 3: people actually witnessed the actual abduction. I mean, it's a
Speaker 3: crowded parking lot, but everybody was inside, and so I
Speaker 3: just I wanted people to maybe be as haunted by
Speaker 3: that fact as I am that even though you know,
Speaker 3: somebody actually heard this take place in the parking lot,
Speaker 3: there was little anything anybody could do to help her
Speaker 3: at that point. And so there was a lot of
Speaker 3: reasons why I included it, And there's just so many
Speaker 3: more reasons why it's really important to the case, and
Speaker 3: so it's a good starting point, especially for those people
Speaker 3: who are just now learning about the Wick case and
Speaker 3: what happened to her and how it transpired.
Speaker 2: You include one more important point that Melissa's car keys
Speaker 2: were found in the parking lot around seven forty five
Speaker 2: and turned into the front desk. But no one, you say,
Speaker 2: notice the blood on Melissa's keys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a real unfortunate part of the investigation. You know,
Speaker 3: these keys were probably in that parking lot for about
Speaker 3: an hour before they were picked up by a good
Speaker 3: Samaritan that you know, he was coming with his family
Speaker 3: and they picked up the keys. You know, they were
Speaker 3: there for quite some time, and when they were turned in,
Speaker 3: nobody saw these you know, these blood flakes that were
Speaker 3: drying on the keys, and had they known or had
Speaker 3: they seen it, it might have sped things up quite
Speaker 3: a bit. But at that point, nobody knew Melissa was missing.
Speaker 3: And again, I think this is just a lesson in
Speaker 3: how these kind of crimes can take place, and how
Speaker 3: bits of this information really individually doesn't mean anything, or
Speaker 3: people don't pay close enough attention to things. We've got
Speaker 3: to be more aware of our surroundings. I'd like to
Speaker 3: believe had some of these clues been picked up earlier,
Speaker 3: that maybe there would have been a different outcome in
Speaker 3: this case. But you know, nobody knows that for sure.
Speaker 3: But I think it's a good example of just not
Speaker 3: paying close enough attention to what seems like something that's ordinary.
Speaker 3: I hope people will kind of take note of that,
Speaker 3: and if you find keys in a parking lot, pay
Speaker 3: close attention.
Speaker 2: Again, speaking of paying close attention, it was a different
Speaker 2: time and when they asked Melissa's mother, mary Anne, about
Speaker 2: her day, they asked. One of the first questions they
Speaker 2: asked when she filed the missing person's report was that
Speaker 2: if they had an argument, so tell us about Melissa's day.
Speaker 2: She spent the morning with her mom, mary Anne, but
Speaker 2: tell us about the day, the argument, and then reaching
Speaker 2: out to police finally, So it.
Speaker 3: Was just an ordinary day, you know. They got up
Speaker 3: that morning, Melissa asked her mom for some money. That's
Speaker 3: pretty typical with teenagers and their parents, and Melissa's mom
Speaker 3: said no, you know, no, she was aware that Melissa
Speaker 3: was going to get paid that next day, which was Friday,
Speaker 3: and she was really trying to teach Melissa money management,
Speaker 3: and so she left to go on to work, and
Speaker 3: mary Anne felt bad, as sometimes moms do when you
Speaker 3: have to teach your kid a lesson, and left her
Speaker 3: a note that said, Hey, I'm going to be a
Speaker 3: Bowling World after work. It's my league night. Come see
Speaker 3: me and I'll buy you a burger. So they both
Speaker 3: went about their day, and then obviously it ended up
Speaker 3: in tragedy. You know, Melissa never made it inside to
Speaker 3: Bowling World when she did go visit her mom after
Speaker 3: she found the note, and you know, right away, Marianne
Speaker 3: Whitt knew that there was something tragically wrong because her
Speaker 3: daughter had never just not come home, and she began
Speaker 3: to drive the streets that evening looking for her daughter.
Speaker 3: She never went to Bowling World to look for her car,
Speaker 3: because Melissa never showed up that night in her mind,
Speaker 3: so she didn't think Melissa was ever there. You know,
Speaker 3: this was not an event that had ever really happened
Speaker 3: before in the River Valley. And you know, we don't
Speaker 3: have access to like true crime stories like we do now.
Speaker 3: Think about it. You know, her mom wouldn't have thought, oh, well,
Speaker 3: I need to go see if you know, something happened
Speaker 3: to her. And she never made it inside the you know,
Speaker 3: the Bowling World, and so she when ahead and went
Speaker 3: back home, started calling friends and Melissa's nobody knew where
Speaker 3: Melissa was. You know, she waited until the next morning,
Speaker 3: and she called a patrolman, and when the patrolman came out.
Speaker 3: You know, Melissa was nineteen, and there's no law about
Speaker 3: going missing when you're over eighteen, you know, you're an adult.
Speaker 3: And this was before the National Center for Missing Unexploited
Speaker 3: Children had extended their services to kids that were aged
Speaker 3: twenty one. Nobody knew there was a crime. This patrolman
Speaker 3: actually just thought that she was angry and didn't come home,
Speaker 3: and that she would come home when she cooled down.
Speaker 3: And she did this. You know, let me rephrase that
Speaker 3: a little bit, not she did this, He did this,
Speaker 3: and kind of chalked it up to, well, she was
Speaker 3: a runaway because he sees this hundreds of times. Departments
Speaker 3: see this hundreds of times a week, right the people
Speaker 3: are reported missing or they run away and then they
Speaker 3: just end up coming right back home. And that's really
Speaker 3: what he thought was happening. And so that report didn't
Speaker 3: go to the major crimes unit. It really just sat
Speaker 3: on a desk and that, you know, for a couple
Speaker 3: of days, and that was pretty unfortunate. I think it
Speaker 3: hurt the case.
Speaker 2: Now, despite what the police believe, Mary Anne and family
Speaker 2: and friends believe there's no way that she would have
Speaker 2: ran away, and they think something's up. And so by
Speaker 2: this happens Thursday. By Saturday, they were already organized and
Speaker 2: have six thousand flyers. They're trying to get everybody. They're
Speaker 2: blanketing the River Valley with over six thousand pleas for
Speaker 2: help finding Melissa's help finding the missing team, and the
Speaker 2: news stations pick up on the story on the search
Speaker 2: as well, along with the Fort Smith Police Major Crimes Unit,
Speaker 2: which you say is led by j c Ryder. So
Speaker 2: tell us more about this search and the police undertaking.
Speaker 3: So the you know, Melissa's family and friends knew something
Speaker 3: was wrong. As I mentioned, Melissa had never done anything
Speaker 3: like this before. She was a really good kid, never
Speaker 3: had any issues with her, and so they knew, and
Speaker 3: I say to her family and friends, they all knew
Speaker 3: something was wrong. So as you mentioned, they banded together.
Speaker 3: They get flyers and they're going to get out there
Speaker 3: and they're going to find Melissa. They needed people to
Speaker 3: know that she hadn't come home and that something was wrong.
Speaker 3: So the media did pick it up immediately, because again
Speaker 3: you've got this nineteen year old college student that just
Speaker 3: vanishes into thin air. This was new. These kind of
Speaker 3: things don't happen in small town Fort Smith at the time.
Speaker 3: And when the Major Crimes unit caught wind of this
Speaker 3: on television, they went back in to the department, said,
Speaker 3: let me see this file of this girl. You know
Speaker 3: what's going on here, you know. They they demanded to
Speaker 3: look at it, and once they had it, of course,
Speaker 3: they jump in. They realized that this is something they
Speaker 3: need to look at, and so they get boots on
Speaker 3: the ground and they do the first thing that an
Speaker 3: investigator should, and they went to Bowling World and that's
Speaker 3: where they found her car. And when they find her
Speaker 3: car there, they know, now this is a crime scene
Speaker 3: because they find crushed hair clip, they find spots of blood.
Speaker 3: It's just very clear that something tragic has happened in
Speaker 3: that parking lot. And that's really kind of what kicks
Speaker 3: this entire investigation off. So thank goodness the friends and
Speaker 3: the family had the forethought to get out there and
Speaker 3: pass those flyers out because that made all the difference.
Speaker 3: But this was Sunday, you know, she went missing on
Speaker 3: a Thursday night. This was Sunday before they were able
Speaker 3: to get involved.
Speaker 2: Yes, you also talk about I mentioned that the car
Speaker 2: keys were turned in, but nobody realizes the significance of
Speaker 2: this and also the significance of the key chain leading
Speaker 2: to an incredible clue of the identity of the missing keys.
Speaker 3: It was it was later before somebody called in. You know,
Speaker 3: they see all the news coverage and they realized that, hey,
Speaker 3: these car keys they say Missy on them, and you know,
Speaker 3: they're seeing this missing girl that's you know, all over
Speaker 3: the news, and that's when you know, they call police
Speaker 3: and say we have these keys. The police go and
Speaker 3: get the keys and then they realize that there's dried
Speaker 3: blood on the keys, and it just continues to escalate
Speaker 3: the situation. You know, now it's a it's not just
Speaker 3: a girl that's run away or didn't come home. Now
Speaker 3: it looks like a crime has been committed. You know,
Speaker 3: that's when you know J. C Ryder and his team
Speaker 3: really put everything into full speed ahead. They knew the
Speaker 3: clock was ticking and they had already lost time because
Speaker 3: this is Sunday and Monday before you know, these things
Speaker 3: are being uncovered, and so you know, they're having to
Speaker 3: make up for lost time to be able to find
Speaker 3: this girl what happened to Melissa Witt.
Speaker 2: So they conduct a search, but what initial clues, if any,
Speaker 2: do they have as to who this perpetrator might be.
Speaker 3: In the beginning, they don't. They start interviewing local known
Speaker 3: sex offenders. You know, they're interviewing people that were in
Speaker 3: bowling world. You know, A red herring crops up pretty early.
Speaker 3: Somebody reported seeing a Caucasian woman arguing with an African
Speaker 3: American male, and so of course that gets blown up
Speaker 3: all over the media, and that's how they start looking
Speaker 3: for They get a sketch. It turns out that that
Speaker 3: guy and that woman that argued were a couple. It
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with the wit case, but it
Speaker 3: cost the WIT case more time, and there were quite
Speaker 3: a few red herrings that popped up immediately in the case.
Speaker 3: But they did everything they could defind her. And then
Speaker 3: forty five days into this, you know, everything came to
Speaker 3: a screeching halt, and that's when the trappers found a
Speaker 3: body in the Ozark National Forest.
Speaker 2: What can be determined once the medical examiner or the
Speaker 2: coroner examined the body doing the autopsy, a.
Speaker 3: Lot of important things were found. What I can talk
Speaker 3: about is that they know that her body was out
Speaker 3: in the elements pretty much the entire time. They were
Speaker 3: able to tell that she had not been held. There
Speaker 3: were no ligature marks. They know that she was strangled,
Speaker 3: manually strangled at broke her hyoid bone. They know she
Speaker 3: was strangled face down because as she was strangled, she
Speaker 3: and held dirt and other debrison leaves that were way
Speaker 3: down in her airway, and that that was material that
Speaker 3: was native to the Ozark National Forest. So they're, you know,
Speaker 3: confident that the murder actually took place there. They were
Speaker 3: not able to determine definitively that she had been sexually assaulted.
Speaker 3: They did believe it could have been sexually motivated though, though,
Speaker 3: because they believe it could have been sexually motivated, because
Speaker 3: she was found nude, her killer stole her clothing, her shoes,
Speaker 3: and her jewelry and her beloved Mickey Mouse watch that
Speaker 3: she always wore. So, you know, there was a lot
Speaker 3: of interesting things to really kind of compare at the
Speaker 3: crime scene because there's two crime scenes. Right There's where
Speaker 3: she was abducted and then where she was actually murdered.
Speaker 3: And where she was abducted was very disorganized. It's a
Speaker 3: busy parking lot, it's a blitz attack. He leaves, you know,
Speaker 3: there's keys left behind and earring, blood pools, all of that.
Speaker 3: But then you get to the other crime scene, the
Speaker 3: secondary scene, where she's actually murdered and they find her
Speaker 3: body and you know, she's stripped clean of anything. You know,
Speaker 3: the killer has had time to be more organized and
Speaker 3: decide what he's got to do, you know, to hide
Speaker 3: his crime. And I think that's an interesting aspect of
Speaker 3: the case. And you know, it's important to note that
Speaker 3: where Bowling World is and where her body was found
Speaker 3: was an hour drive, so he had lots of time
Speaker 3: to think about what was going to happen next, what
Speaker 3: he needed to do, and to kind of calm down
Speaker 3: and to plan out, you know, the next series of events.
Speaker 3: It's tragic and it's horrible, but I think it's also
Speaker 3: something really important to point out.
Speaker 2: What did j c Ryder and Chris Boyd, or at
Speaker 2: least police at that time, what did they believe in
Speaker 2: terms of his relationship to Melissa Wit This perpetrator and
Speaker 2: also relationship to the area.
Speaker 3: Always been believed by local law enforcement and even the
Speaker 3: FBI that Melissa knew her killer, that this was somebody
Speaker 3: that she knew in some context in her life, especially
Speaker 3: how things went down in the Bowling World parking lot.
Speaker 3: So they believe it was someone that she had had
Speaker 3: a relationship with before or knew in some capacity. And
Speaker 3: they also believe and as per the FBI profile, that
Speaker 3: her killer was someone that was local to the area
Speaker 3: or at least traveled to the Ozark National Forest to hunt, fish, hike, swim, whatever,
Speaker 3: Because the place where her body was found is really
Speaker 3: really pretty remote compared to some of the other areas
Speaker 3: where people would go to do those things. You would
Speaker 3: have had to have been there before, and to go
Speaker 3: there under the cover of night, you know, on that
Speaker 3: Thursday night, he would have had to have known where
Speaker 3: he was going and how to get back out again.
Speaker 3: It's not an easy location and very accessible. So you
Speaker 3: know that in itself spoke volumes about the killer. You know,
Speaker 3: police take it a step further, and I agree with
Speaker 3: them her you know, her Melissa's killer's name is in
Speaker 3: that diary she left behind. It was someone that she knew,
Speaker 3: and she knew fairly well.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, I was just going to
Speaker 2: ask about this diary. What when do police find this
Speaker 2: diary and what is contained in there that leads them
Speaker 2: to believe that their suspect is named in this diary.
Speaker 3: You know, they look at the diary really early on,
Speaker 3: because you start you have to start looking at everybody
Speaker 3: that's close to the victim once her body is found,
Speaker 3: you know, and they had seen the diary even before
Speaker 3: her body was found, like where could she have gone?
Speaker 3: Who would she have gone off off with? But then
Speaker 3: you know, when she's found murdered, of course, then this
Speaker 3: becomes critical and so you know they're reading through it
Speaker 3: and it's the musings of a nineteen year old girl.
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember being nineteen. You write about cute boys,
Speaker 3: and you know what your troubles are of the day,
Speaker 3: and you know things that you're doing and your hopes
Speaker 3: and your dreams. But there are there's a name or
Speaker 3: two that come up repeatedly in the diary and without
Speaker 3: giving a lot away. You know, it became something that
Speaker 3: after her body was found and there was a series
Speaker 3: of events surrounding one of these people in the diary,
Speaker 3: it became clear that he needed to be looked at closer.
Speaker 3: And you know, by the time I came on the
Speaker 3: scene in twenty fifteen, you know that was not something
Speaker 3: that they had shared with me in the beginning. They
Speaker 3: may never have shared with me. Hey, that this guy
Speaker 3: is being looked at closely. That came about because he
Speaker 3: contacted me himself. And we can talk about that more later.
Speaker 3: But when you go back now and you read the
Speaker 3: diary knowing everything I know now, I mean, his name
Speaker 3: just pops. It's like how can you miss it? Like
Speaker 3: he should have been suspect number one the entire time.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about your relationship with the retired JC Ryder
Speaker 2: and Chris Boyd tell us how this happens, and tell
Speaker 2: us more about this growing relationship and your team.
Speaker 3: You know, when I first got involved, you know, it
Speaker 3: was very arms length type of relationship. You know, they
Speaker 3: wanted to see the documentary happen. You know, I met
Speaker 3: them under the guise of I was doing this documentary.
Speaker 3: You know, they were sharing information with me. But you know,
Speaker 3: I wasn't part of the team, and I wasn't going
Speaker 3: to be somebody that they were going to work closely with.
Speaker 3: I'm an investigative reporter, you know, just tell the story.
Speaker 3: You know, that's really kind of where we were. But
Speaker 3: you know, Jac and I ended up giving an interview
Speaker 3: together early on with the newspaper. We had asked the
Speaker 3: newspaper not to include a lot of idea identifying information
Speaker 3: about me, if any I wanted to be basically this
Speaker 3: person who was doing a documentary but not really be named,
Speaker 3: just for my own protection. And after the article ran,
Speaker 3: Jac called me and he said, did you see the article.
Speaker 3: You know they included your name and your photo, and
Speaker 3: that's important part of the story because not long after
Speaker 3: that article ran, this man called me in the middle
Speaker 3: of the night and he was crying and he asked
Speaker 3: if I was the girl from the newspaper article, and
Speaker 3: he wanted to talk to me about Melissa Whitt and
Speaker 3: he wanted to know if I would take him to
Speaker 3: Melissa's grave. And it was just a really bizarre conversation
Speaker 3: and it gave me a lot of red flags. I mean,
Speaker 3: I was just really taken aback by this and immediately
Speaker 3: contact Jace Ryder. And when I gave him the name
Speaker 3: of the person that called me, it took his breath away,
Speaker 3: like you could hear a pin drop on the other
Speaker 3: end of the call, and he said, you need to
Speaker 3: come in and talk to us. Is important, And so
Speaker 3: I did. I went into the department and talked to them,
Speaker 3: and they let me know that this could be our guy.
Speaker 3: We think this is the guy. He won't talk to us,
Speaker 3: but he's reached out to you, and we could really
Speaker 3: use this to our advantage. And so there had to
Speaker 3: be a trust relationship built pretty quickly. That's really how
Speaker 3: it came about. They learned that they could trust me,
Speaker 3: and I've learned I could trust them, and I've not compromised,
Speaker 3: you know, sensitive information in the case. And through that partnership,
Speaker 3: we've all become very good friends. They're some of my
Speaker 3: closest friends. But that's really kind of how it was
Speaker 3: all forged because of that one phone call by a
Speaker 3: guy that they would have never named or told me
Speaker 3: otherwise because they needed to keep that information to themselves.
Speaker 3: But I then went on a seven year journey pretending
Speaker 3: to be this guy's friend, collecting information along the way.
Speaker 2: That's an incredible journey. You put his quotes in this book.
Speaker 2: The things that you talk about in this book tell
Speaker 2: us about some of the things that he imparts to you,
Speaker 2: the kinds of questions you ask him, the kinds of
Speaker 2: confrontations that you eventually have with him.
Speaker 3: You know, my entire relationship with him was frightening because
Speaker 3: there are things I know about him that I can't disclose, right,
Speaker 3: I know what he's capable of outside of the wit murder,
Speaker 3: there's other things, And so it was always real cat
Speaker 3: and mouse with me because I knew why he was
Speaker 3: contacting me. It was it's that age old, let's stay
Speaker 3: as close to the investigation as we can. I want
Speaker 3: to see what she can tell me about the investigation,
Speaker 3: which was pretty obvious to me. But he, you know,
Speaker 3: he started, you know, sharing how upset that he was
Speaker 3: that she had died. He started, you know, telling me
Speaker 3: that he was going to marry her, things that I
Speaker 3: knew were not true. I mean, because they didn't know
Speaker 3: each other, but they were not on the level where
Speaker 3: they were going to get married. Okay, So that's a
Speaker 3: red flag, like we're over inflating, you know how much
Speaker 3: she cared about him. I also knew from the diary
Speaker 3: that she was pretty much done with this guy towards
Speaker 3: the end of her life, which was another red flag.
Speaker 3: You know, she didn't want him innut. But he also
Speaker 3: told me that he was just horrified that she'd been
Speaker 3: raped and murdered. And I know from the autopsy report
Speaker 3: and the medical examiner report and from law enforcement, it's
Speaker 3: impossible to know for sure that she was raped. That
Speaker 3: only the killer would know that, and most people don't
Speaker 3: assume that. And I've just not seen that in my
Speaker 3: line of work. I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's
Speaker 3: a big leap to make, and it bothered me. It
Speaker 3: just it's sort of nagged at me because, you know,
Speaker 3: I also know that he had expressed frustration to other
Speaker 3: people that she was a virgin and all the things
Speaker 3: that go with that, and so it was just a
Speaker 3: really big statement for him to make, and it really
Speaker 3: kind of incensed me. And later as our relationship became
Speaker 3: more volatile, because one I just could got to the
Speaker 3: place where I could almost not tolerate him in some
Speaker 3: of his stories anymore, about how much he loved Melissa,
Speaker 3: about how upset he was, and it made no sense
Speaker 3: that he wanted to build a relationship with me, And
Speaker 3: so I really got up in his business, so to speak,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to know, have you been violent with
Speaker 3: other girlfriends? I mean, I was asking him really hard
Speaker 3: questions that I already knew the answer to, and I
Speaker 3: think he already knew I knew the answer to this,
Speaker 3: and he would become angry with me, and really this
Speaker 3: sort of culminated into me I asking him. I eventually
Speaker 3: asked him if he killed Melissa. As you can imagine,
Speaker 3: you know, that pretty much ended our faux relationship, whatever
Speaker 3: you want to call it, because he was so angry
Speaker 3: and I didn't hear from him for a very long
Speaker 3: time until just before this book came out. And on
Speaker 3: Easter Sunday he texted me and said Happy Easter, Leadana, Wow,
Speaker 3: And it was unnerving to me because he knew the
Speaker 3: book was coming out. And you know, I've heard from
Speaker 3: him since the book has come out, so it's a
Speaker 3: continual game with him. He's a dangerous individual, but that's
Speaker 3: really kind of been the crux of our relationship. I
Speaker 3: think he wants to know how close we are, and
Speaker 3: I think I made it pretty apparent in my book
Speaker 3: just how much we do know.
Speaker 2: You talk about the calls, the phone calls, but also
Speaker 2: along this seven year journey, there are have been times
Speaker 2: where there is some major intimidation, and you note one
Speaker 2: where your husband gets a call. Danny gets a call,
Speaker 2: and he races back home and then finds Polica at
Speaker 2: your house. Tell us what happens with this intimidating phone call?
Speaker 3: That was incredibly frightening because he's contacted, and you know,
Speaker 3: he's told in this message, I'm sorry what I did?
Speaker 3: You know to your family, and then he can't get
Speaker 3: a hold of me, and so you know, he's at
Speaker 3: a basketball game with my son, and he did he
Speaker 3: has to get my son and and race back, as
Speaker 3: you mentioned, but what he doesn't know. Meanwhile, I'm here
Speaker 3: with my girls and we've got somebody that's outside revving
Speaker 3: the engine of a truck and they keep leaving and
Speaker 3: coming back and doing that, and then they finally get
Speaker 3: out of their vehicle and they're wearing masks. And this
Speaker 3: this was frightening for us because we you know, we're
Speaker 3: kind of isolated where we live. It didn't seem like
Speaker 3: a prank, like a Halloween prank, you know. It seemed
Speaker 3: like it was much more sinister. And that culminated into
Speaker 3: them coming and banging on my side door, my deck
Speaker 3: door so hard that the house shook and I thought
Speaker 3: they were going to come in through that door. So
Speaker 3: I sent my children. I have a three story home.
Speaker 3: I sent my children to the top level. I told
Speaker 3: them take the you know, take your phone. One of
Speaker 3: them has a cell phone. You aren't to come down
Speaker 3: for any reason, no matter what you hear. And you know,
Speaker 3: I've called the police, and I take out the shotgun
Speaker 3: and I'm ready to defend my home. And they end
Speaker 3: up leaving. They bang bang, bang bang, and then they
Speaker 3: end up leaving. Police end up coming. And it was
Speaker 3: incredibly frightening to me. It's still frightening to even think
Speaker 3: about it. It scared my children. It felt like a
Speaker 3: message of some sort, you know, I don't. I can't
Speaker 3: explain why it happened or who did it. Police took
Speaker 3: it very very seriously, especially because of my work in
Speaker 3: the case. Yes, and so you know, they watched my house.
Speaker 3: They actually, you know, stayed quite a while. They went
Speaker 3: around the house looking for footprints. They did everything that
Speaker 3: they could, and you know, they still check in on
Speaker 3: me because that's that's not a good thing to have happened.
Speaker 3: And it was just it was bizarre to me. And
Speaker 3: you know, there's been a lot of build up to
Speaker 3: the book that's coming out, and I just continue to
Speaker 3: believe that it was related. I've not had anything like
Speaker 3: that happened since, thank goodness. But I think it just
Speaker 3: kind of goes to show the danger that's involved in
Speaker 3: this level of work that I've embarked on. It's not
Speaker 3: been you know, I think people mistake it is Oh
Speaker 3: it's it's fun. It's it's really not. I mean, this
Speaker 3: is this is life and death. A nineteen year old
Speaker 3: girl died and her murderer has a lot to lose
Speaker 3: if he's caught. So yeah, I felt like it was
Speaker 3: important to write about one to kind of take back
Speaker 3: my h you know, take back the narrative from whoever
Speaker 3: did it and let them know that you know, I'm
Speaker 3: going to keep on keeping on and I'm going to
Speaker 3: expose you for what you did to me.
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Speaker 2: five percent off. Now you talk about this seven year
Speaker 2: phone relationship, but meanwhile you're not just making and accepting
Speaker 2: phone calls. You are doing something to try to gain
Speaker 2: their evidence for who you believe is as you name that.
Speaker 2: You call them the unnamed, unnamed suspect. Now, with that,
Speaker 2: you have a strategy, You have a team, You have
Speaker 2: these dedicated retired detectives with you helping you, and you're
Speaker 2: privy to information now more than ever. So what is
Speaker 2: the strategy that you employ using social media, billboards, the press,
Speaker 2: What are all the things that you do to employ
Speaker 2: to try to reach people and to gather information.
Speaker 3: Well, first, first off, we launched a Facebook page called
Speaker 3: who Killed Missy Witt? And I could have never dreamed
Speaker 3: like the type of following that would happen with that case.
Speaker 3: You know, right now we have over twenty five thousand
Speaker 3: people that actually follow the page, but we have millions
Speaker 3: of shares over the you know, course of like eight
Speaker 3: years of our information, which is really important because you
Speaker 3: got to get that story out. But we knew that
Speaker 3: also wasn't enough. You know, we were filming the documentary
Speaker 3: COVID happened. It slowed everybody down. I don't like to
Speaker 3: feel stagnant, but so I ended up writing a book,
Speaker 3: obviously a series of books. And then we employed an
Speaker 3: eight hundred number that people can call and no you know,
Speaker 3: it's a no Cops tip line. It's anonymous. If you've
Speaker 3: got information, you can leave it. We share it with
Speaker 3: the authorities, of course, and if you want to have
Speaker 3: a callback you know, of course we can call you back.
Speaker 3: That's been a huge tool. We've gotten a lot of
Speaker 3: information there. We put up over a dozen billboards in
Speaker 3: the River Valley area in Arkansas simply saying who killed
Speaker 3: Melissa Wit That was hugely successful. It really rattled a
Speaker 3: lot of people to know that one, hey, her case
Speaker 3: still isn't solved, but it also rattled people that had information,
Speaker 3: and so that was good. You know, we got some
Speaker 3: phone calls from that. You know, we've offered rewards. Our
Speaker 3: latest reward was centered around the twenty ninth and versary.
Speaker 3: We offered twenty nine thousand dollars people to come forward
Speaker 3: with information, and that really brought a lot of people
Speaker 3: out of the woodwork. But the other strategy that we've
Speaker 3: really employed that's been really successful outside of those things,
Speaker 3: is that we have really gotten to know our unnamed suspect,
Speaker 3: probably better than he knows himself. We've gone back all
Speaker 3: the way to grade school to get to know people
Speaker 3: that knew him, and I have spent years of my
Speaker 3: life collecting information for law enforcement about him so we
Speaker 3: can construct a timeline of who this person is and
Speaker 3: decisions that he's made, and all of those things that
Speaker 3: really have helped the investigation along into this guy. And
Speaker 3: so I feel like that our team has done some
Speaker 3: phenomenal work that really could be replicated in other cold cases.
Speaker 3: It's really made all the difference in Melissa's case. It's
Speaker 3: really easy to do. I mean, you know, putting together
Speaker 3: social media that's easy. Anybody. They could do that in
Speaker 3: a cold case, and I don't want people to dismiss it.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of power there. We've received thousands and
Speaker 3: thousands of pieces of information from that Facebook page since
Speaker 3: its inception in twenty fifteen. So you know, I've also
Speaker 3: employed really getting involved in podcasts. You know, one of
Speaker 3: the first podcasts that really told the story and interviewed
Speaker 3: me was True Crime Garage, and you know, they they
Speaker 3: helped kind of propel stuff for us for social media.
Speaker 3: And then since then, other people like yourself who have
Speaker 3: a huge following have taken an interest and you talk
Speaker 3: about the books and so those things have been critical.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't thank you enough. It's you know,
Speaker 3: the last time when we were on your show, we
Speaker 3: had people call in, and so there's a lot of
Speaker 3: power in getting out there and networking with people like
Speaker 3: yourself that care about these cases and can get the
Speaker 3: information out on a big level.
Speaker 2: Now you say you your efforts elicited information, crucial information,
Speaker 2: and you write about this Nixon O'Neill supposedly the roommate
Speaker 2: of your unnamed suspect.
Speaker 3: Yes Nixon O'Neill. I was real leery of Nixon in
Speaker 3: the beginning. You know, I try not to meet with
Speaker 3: people in person, if at all possible, because, as you
Speaker 3: can imagine, people have all kinds of motives to want
Speaker 3: to meet. But he was really convincing, and so I
Speaker 3: did meet him in a hotel bar. And I just
Speaker 3: want to give a disclaimer. I would not suggest that
Speaker 3: other advocates make some of the decisions that I've made.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that they were the smartest. But I
Speaker 3: did meet with him, and he was just it was
Speaker 3: very intimidating, and it was very frightening, and I tried
Speaker 3: to make that come across in that particular chapter because
Speaker 3: I felt like a sitting duck and I just wasn't
Speaker 3: sure what was going to happen. But when he gave
Speaker 3: me information, he gave me the name of our unnamed suspect, right,
Speaker 3: and it was just lightning hit me. I don't know
Speaker 3: how to explain it. It was frightening and exhilarating all
Speaker 3: at the same time. And spent a lot of time
Speaker 3: really fleshing out his story, and it turns out it
Speaker 3: was true. He really did live with this guy, and
Speaker 3: what was intriguing is that he had seen a female
Speaker 3: Mickey Mouse watch in their apartment, right, And so of
Speaker 3: course I immediately, you know, work through all the details
Speaker 3: with him and get him to go and interview with police.
Speaker 3: Of course that's important, It's more important than him telling me.
Speaker 3: And so after he gave the interview, then I spent
Speaker 3: a lot of time picking Nixon O'Neill's mind, you know,
Speaker 3: just questioning him on this unnamed suspect's past. And that
Speaker 3: connected me with a lot of other people who were
Speaker 3: able to talk to me about other crimes that this
Speaker 3: guy had committed. And it just really kind of started
Speaker 3: constructing this like storyline that we had no idea, and
Speaker 3: some of it I can't talk about, but some of
Speaker 3: it I can say is that he's a very abusive
Speaker 3: man who likes to hurt women. And I've continued a
Speaker 3: relationship with Nixon. You know, Nixon agreed to me writing
Speaker 3: about him in my book, which is a big deal
Speaker 3: because obviously the suspect is going to know who Nixon is.
Speaker 3: You know, I can say, I can call him Nixon
Speaker 3: O'Neill all day long. That's not his real name, but
Speaker 3: the suspect is going to know because he knows, you know,
Speaker 3: he knows I'm writing about him. And I was really
Speaker 3: impressed by Nixon because that's a very scary thing to do,
Speaker 3: and he's gone on to give some national interviews lately.
Speaker 3: And I think this is going to turn the case
Speaker 3: upside down.
Speaker 2: I really do.
Speaker 3: And I knew the book could and the things that
Speaker 3: were coming from it, and I think it's important that
Speaker 3: the world understands that Nixon is real and he's a
Speaker 3: hero in this story because you know, he's he's come
Speaker 3: forward and said, I've seen this watch I've got this story.
Speaker 3: You know, I need somebody to hear me. I think
Speaker 3: this guy is responsible, and you know, I attribute him
Speaker 3: coming forward to all of this other work that we
Speaker 3: put into play, through social media and those things that
Speaker 3: we did that gave him the courage to say, I
Speaker 3: can I need to say something. This is what I
Speaker 3: saw and that's all we had ever hoped that it happened,
Speaker 3: and he really opened the floodgates for us.
Speaker 2: You also, this information elicited responses from other people. Women
Speaker 2: actually that were right away said they were really afraid
Speaker 2: coming forward and want to be anonymous, but they had
Speaker 2: some crucial information that definitely seemed to corroborate what the
Speaker 2: roommate was saying about relationships with women.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean, I spent years building relationships with these women.
Speaker 3: That's I need to I'm not sure if I did
Speaker 3: a good job imparting that in the book, but years
Speaker 3: to gain their trust, and some of them talked to
Speaker 3: me immediately, and some of them it took a little
Speaker 3: bit longer. But I mean they've been beaten held at gunpoint.
Speaker 3: Almost every one of them. He tried to strangle. Some
Speaker 3: of the stories are more horrific than others. It's the
Speaker 3: most frightening thing ever. And I've met with almost all
Speaker 3: of the women in person at least and talk to
Speaker 3: their family, and I can see the fear. We've had
Speaker 3: women that have talked to us that have ended up
Speaker 3: fleeing the state of Arkansas because they're so afraid of
Speaker 3: this guy. And this guy is seriously dangerous. And you know,
Speaker 3: that's been something that's been part of this effort. That
Speaker 3: is something that I'm particularly proud of. And I say
Speaker 3: that because these women lived right, They're lucky and their
Speaker 3: voices need to be heard because what happened to them
Speaker 3: was terrible and they need justice in their own way.
Speaker 3: And each of these women want justice from Melissa Witt
Speaker 3: because they know that could have been them, And it's
Speaker 3: just really important for me to advocate for them and
Speaker 3: to really just say how proud I am that they
Speaker 3: came forward, because what they did was incredibly, incredibly brave,
Speaker 3: and you know, there as much a hero in the
Speaker 3: story as anybody else's. But they have all bravely spoken
Speaker 3: to law enforcement, which I felt like really needed to happen.
Speaker 1: That was good.
Speaker 3: I mean, police needed to be able to have on
Speaker 3: record this idea of who this unnamed suspect really was
Speaker 3: and what he was capable of, and the best way
Speaker 3: to do that was to talk to these women, and
Speaker 3: they did. And I'm glad.
Speaker 2: We won't talk so much about because it would it
Speaker 2: would take quite a while to explain, but the monkey
Speaker 2: wrench efforts of Sandy Jones and the willingness by some
Speaker 2: law enforcement to go along with some of her ideas
Speaker 2: about the perpetrator. But you point out that she had
Speaker 2: that the four different people that she pointed the finger at.
Speaker 2: We won't talk about that. I think what's more interesting
Speaker 2: again is to get back to this roommate, Nixon O'Neil.
Speaker 2: But also, like you say, he certainly this person, the
Speaker 2: perpetrator that you believe is the killer, knows of this betrayal.
Speaker 2: I could, he must see it as But also Nixon
Speaker 2: is still in correspondence with this person and then conveying
Speaker 2: that information to you and your team.
Speaker 3: Absolutely right before this interview, I was getting messages from Nixon.
Speaker 3: This unnamed suspect is trying to lure him into a
Speaker 3: meeting like they're good friends. I mean, we have no
Speaker 3: doubt that the suspect has read the book. There's been,
Speaker 3: like I said, national media that Nixon O'Neill has given lately.
Speaker 3: I mean, he had two huge articles out there, and
Speaker 3: so we're questioning his motives. I mean, he's still it's
Speaker 3: that narcissistic, psycho pathic personality, whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 3: sociopath who even though he knows that we're on to him,
Speaker 3: he just can't walk away. He still has to be
Speaker 3: a part. He still has to see what's going on.
Speaker 3: He still wants to play the game. And now the
Speaker 3: stakes are really high because he knows that we know,
Speaker 3: and we know that he knows. We know, you know,
Speaker 3: as complicated as that gets. So I'm interested to see
Speaker 3: what happens. I mean, I know that law enforcement are
Speaker 3: really really close to, you know, the next chain of
Speaker 3: events that are going to happen in this case. But
Speaker 3: between now and then, it's pretty frightening because he continues
Speaker 3: to want to befriend Nixon. For whatever reason, it concerns
Speaker 3: me a great deal.
Speaker 2: Frankly, let's Jesus as an opportunity to stop you hear
Speaker 2: these messages. Now you talk about Nixon O'Neil, but you
Speaker 2: also talk about some of the detectives that you've contacted,
Speaker 2: like Dale Best, who was there right at the crime
Speaker 2: scene and said it was one of the worst days
Speaker 2: of his career. And when you said to him that
Speaker 2: he had contacted you, what was his response.
Speaker 3: It's almost like everybody else's. I mean, it's like shock
Speaker 3: and awe, honestly, I mean, people are are surprised, and
Speaker 3: then they're worried for my safety. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: you know, they're trying to catch a killer, and so
Speaker 3: there's this intrigue. You know, how brave is the donna
Speaker 3: going to be? You know, it's a little bit of
Speaker 3: all of that, and so Dale was always very supportive.
Speaker 3: You know, God rest his soul that he's passed away.
Speaker 3: But I think that there was concern that he had
Speaker 3: for my safety and also that desire to see me
Speaker 3: push this to the finish line. So you know, I'm
Speaker 3: forever grateful for the support that he gave me and
Speaker 3: the knowledge that he imparted on me. You know, kind
Speaker 3: of the same with j c Ryder and Chris Boyd.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, del Best was one of the
Speaker 3: good guys who wanted to see closure in this case.
Speaker 3: I'm thankful I had that opportunity to know him, and
Speaker 3: I hope, I hope that you know, we do get
Speaker 3: to see closure very soon, because he'll be one of
Speaker 3: the reasons why this case came to you know, fruition.
Speaker 3: But you know, back to your question, I mean, he's
Speaker 3: just he was just really concerned, and I think in
Speaker 3: all that the suspects would be that foolish. I mean,
Speaker 3: think about it, why would you contact an investigative reporter.
Speaker 2: Sure, you write about Melissa's mother and their daily torment
Speaker 2: for sixteen years after this, After Melissa's death, Mary Anne
Speaker 2: Wit and the stories in the newspapers Slain woman's mother
Speaker 2: keeps hope Alive July two thousand and two. Melissa fought
Speaker 2: very hard, but there was a you say that your
Speaker 2: team and yourself are fulfilling a vow made to Melissa's mother.
Speaker 2: What is that vow made?
Speaker 3: I have promised Melissa and her mother that I'm going
Speaker 3: to see this through for justice. Melissa's mother wanted justice.
Speaker 3: She said that multiple times to detective Writer. She wanted
Speaker 3: to see her killers, her daughter's killer brought to justice.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't It was not going to bring Melissa back.
Speaker 3: It will not bring Melissa back, but it would stop
Speaker 3: him from hurting anybody else. And I have just made
Speaker 3: that vow as a mom, as a reporter, as a
Speaker 3: human being, I can't look away from it. And you know,
Speaker 3: what started out as me just being able to tell
Speaker 3: the story became this passion for me that I never
Speaker 3: thought would happen. I mean, you know, I make a
Speaker 3: joke that you know I've been doing this for almost
Speaker 3: a decade. Sometimes marriages don't last that long. Sure, you
Speaker 3: know it's it's because of that promise that I made.
Speaker 3: I feel like, as a mom of five girls, myself,
Speaker 3: I would want somebody to do this for my girls,
Speaker 3: and you know her mom is gone and so I'm
Speaker 3: I'm going to keep fighting until we see justice, and
Speaker 3: I believe we will. I do. I believe that we're
Speaker 3: closer than we've ever been and it's something that I'm
Speaker 3: really hopeful for and we'll be really proud of when
Speaker 3: we can see kuff slapped on the guy that did this.
Speaker 2: You write about the value of reaching as many people
Speaker 2: as you can and in as many ways as you can,
Speaker 2: and that is evidenced by crime con UK in Great
Speaker 2: Britain twenty twenty two, but also you call it the
Speaker 2: crime con Catalyst. Tell us about the success of crime con.
Speaker 3: Both my experience, you know, my experience with crime con
Speaker 3: UK and crime con US has made a huge impact
Speaker 3: in this case. I mean, you know, crime con UK
Speaker 3: is a little bit smaller than crime cons Crime con
Speaker 3: US has, you know, thousands of people that attend, but
Speaker 3: between the two of them, you know, you've got thousands
Speaker 3: of people who are interested in cold cases for whatever reason,
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, entertainment. I'm not saying that I
Speaker 3: agree with that, but it's a reality in that genre entertainment,
Speaker 3: they care about cold cases, their advocates, whatever the reason
Speaker 3: being able to take that message and give it to
Speaker 3: those people who are going to be the people who
Speaker 3: spread it out there like wildfire, makes a huge impact
Speaker 3: in a case. And when I was invited to speak
Speaker 3: at Crime con US in Florida, I was incredibly honored
Speaker 3: and nervous, but pretty convinced that I was only going
Speaker 3: to have a handful of people that cared about the case.
Speaker 3: I'm not a known name, don't work for dateline, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not a big headliner. I'm just a girl from Arkansas.
Speaker 3: And I remember being backstage and they were getting ready
Speaker 3: to send me out, and I peeked behind the curtain
Speaker 3: and I looked at the stage manager and I said,
Speaker 3: you've got me in the wrong place. He said, you're
Speaker 3: the Donna Humphrey, right, And I said yes, And so
Speaker 3: he sent me on my way, and I remember walking
Speaker 3: out to start my talk and there were hundreds of people,
Speaker 3: maybe six hundred people there.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And I can't even talk about it without getting emotional
Speaker 3: because I knew what that was going to mean for
Speaker 3: Melissa's case, and that these people were going to take
Speaker 3: this story back into their communities and share it on
Speaker 3: social media, and that's what they did, and it turned
Speaker 3: into the most amazing thing for the Wit case. I mean,
Speaker 3: it culminated in more interviews, which is always important, not
Speaker 3: just for me, but for law enforcement, you know, retired detectives,
Speaker 3: and it culminated into thousands and thousands and thousands of
Speaker 3: shares on social media of our hashtag Justice for Melissa Wit.
Speaker 3: You know, we had almost within the first month of
Speaker 3: me speaking at crime Con, I had sixty thousand more
Speaker 3: unique visitors to my website than we'd ever had in
Speaker 3: the whole history of, you know, working on the Wit case.
Speaker 3: And so that, to me, that's a catalyst that lit
Speaker 3: a fire that I think forever changed the Wit case.
Speaker 3: And I'm very, very grateful to Crime Con for that,
Speaker 3: because again, I'm just a girl from Arkansas with a
Speaker 3: passion for this cold case, you know, and they cared
Speaker 3: about it and they allowed me to talk about it,
Speaker 3: and I think that's going to help get us closer
Speaker 3: to justice because we actually had some tips come out
Speaker 3: of that. So it's just it's just amazing. You just
Speaker 3: never know what those kind of opportunities are going to bring.
Speaker 2: You read about your film Uneven Ground, which premiered in
Speaker 2: May twenty twenty three at the True Crime Festival in Rogers, Arkansas.
Speaker 2: You say that you've entered into seventy five film festivals
Speaker 2: and won awards at twenty five and again, reaching more people,
Speaker 2: raising more awareness, speaking to people, resonating with people.
Speaker 3: It's been an amazing experience. I mean, as a first
Speaker 3: time filmmaker for an independent doc, you don't expect to.
Speaker 3: I mean, the win rate in a festival is less
Speaker 3: than ten percent, and so to experience what our team
Speaker 3: has experienced is one and where we're just blown away,
Speaker 3: honored that people cared about the film and it did
Speaker 3: so well and people appreciated it. You know, as an
Speaker 3: independent filmmaker, thank you. You know it's tough to do that.
Speaker 3: But more than that, it's like we were stunned when
Speaker 3: we had a distributor pick it up that just never happens,
Speaker 3: not typically for an independent doc. And then Amazon Prime
Speaker 3: picked it up, and then to Be picked it up,
Speaker 3: and then other platforms picked it up. And the film
Speaker 3: has been seen millions of times now and we neverticipated that.
Speaker 3: I thought maybe one hundred people on YouTube would watch it,
Speaker 3: and so to be able to have that kind of
Speaker 3: platform to tell Melissa's story has been beyond amazing. I'm
Speaker 3: so grateful. I'm very grateful because this nineteen year old
Speaker 3: girl deserves to have her story told, and she deserves
Speaker 3: to be remembered, and I feel like we accomplished that,
Speaker 3: and so I hope that it helps contribute to closing
Speaker 3: the case. It's definitely helped make the phones ring. I
Speaker 3: mean for sure when it came out initially, the phones
Speaker 3: were ringing off the hook.
Speaker 2: You described this bit of a book where you say
Speaker 2: that it's a delicate dance between presence and absence, between
Speaker 2: the tangible and the ethereal. And what we're talking about
Speaker 2: is when you went with your team and you went
Speaker 2: to the Melissa WIT's gravesite and you found a drawing
Speaker 2: and what was that drawing up? Exactly?
Speaker 3: It was a butterfly. And I never dreamed how much
Speaker 3: meaning this would end up having in my life. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm big into signs. You know, it's motivating for me,
Speaker 3: and so that really kind of culminated into if it's
Speaker 3: okay if I jump ahead a little bit, but just
Speaker 3: from seeing that too, you know, had spent some time
Speaker 3: filming in those Ark National Forest and a butterfly landed
Speaker 3: on me. It had been circling and landing and it
Speaker 3: was my whole team was in awe. It just felt
Speaker 3: like Melissa was there and saying thank you, you know,
Speaker 3: and it felt it felt good to feel, you know,
Speaker 3: feel that maybe we were on the right track, because
Speaker 3: this kind of work is really dark and hard and sad,
Speaker 3: and to have anything positive happening, I really have to
Speaker 3: hold onto that with both hands because I don't want
Speaker 3: to say it's been a negative experience, but it's been
Speaker 3: a dangerous experience. It's been you know, my life is
Speaker 3: forever altered and I made that choice, but I can't.
Speaker 3: I don't get to live my life the same way
Speaker 3: that I used to. And no regrets, you know, none.
Speaker 3: But it's those type of instances that happen that I
Speaker 3: have to see the beauty and that find some hope
Speaker 3: in the work that we're doing and believe that Melissa
Speaker 3: feels that way too. It really, I know that sounds naive, sounds,
Speaker 3: you know, saying it out loud. I'm being a little
Speaker 3: bit vulnerable here, but it's something that we choose to
Speaker 3: believe because it brings us happiness and hope in something
Speaker 3: else in something that is really just filled with sadness
Speaker 3: and it's something that we need.
Speaker 2: In this book. You close it with a message from j. C.
Speaker 2: Ryder and also yourself. Tell us what these messages contain
Speaker 2: and to who.
Speaker 3: The messages are for Melissa's killer directly to a name suspect.
Speaker 3: And you know what, when when J C. And Chris
Speaker 3: asked if they could be included in some sort of
Speaker 3: you know, closing statement to her killer in this book,
Speaker 3: I was all about it. But their message is so powerful.
Speaker 3: They want the killer to know. You know, lots of
Speaker 3: time has passed, you know, thirty years, Yeah, but neither
Speaker 3: the time that has passed nor their old age because
Speaker 3: they're you know, one is in their seventies, others in
Speaker 3: his late sixties. You know, it's not changing anything. And
Speaker 3: we're still here, they said, and we're still coming for you.
Speaker 3: And I loved that because and I echoed those sentiments
Speaker 3: I want most importantly, you know, I wanted to leave
Speaker 3: the killer with this message, and I want your listeners
Speaker 3: to feel the importance of that too, is that, you know,
Speaker 3: he never counted on a mom of seven getting involved.
Speaker 3: He never counted the power of somebody who's going to say,
Speaker 3: not one more girl, are you gonna hurt? He never
Speaker 3: thought that anybody would find him, and my message to
Speaker 3: him was, but I have indeed found you, and you
Speaker 3: know that I have. And I hope that he's unable
Speaker 3: to sleep at night because of that. There's just some
Speaker 3: power in that in reminding him that Melissa is not forgotten.
Speaker 3: She's not. And I'm given, as I'm given this interview
Speaker 3: with you, I'm looking on my wall. I had somebody
Speaker 3: paint me a portrait of Melissa, and it's hanging in
Speaker 3: here in my office, and I'm reminded of that of
Speaker 3: those words like she's worth it, And I want him
Speaker 3: to understand that she's worth it to me, and that
Speaker 3: he just wasn't counting on this, and I think that
Speaker 3: that's I think that's really important for him to understand
Speaker 3: that he underestimated the power of people continuing to care,
Speaker 3: that this case.
Speaker 2: Wasn't solved, and also that you have stressed over and
Speaker 2: over again, all of you that you will not give
Speaker 2: up in this pursuit of justice at all. No.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm ten years in it, well, not quiet,
Speaker 3: but almost there. I would think that if I was
Speaker 3: going to give up I would have done it already,
Speaker 3: and I'm not going to I'm going to be standing
Speaker 3: there in that courtroom, sitting there in that courtroom every
Speaker 3: single day when they bring him in and they put
Speaker 3: him on trial for what he did front row. It's
Speaker 3: a promise. I'm going to make sure we get to
Speaker 3: that point. It's important to me, it's important to everybody
Speaker 3: that loved her. You know, she still has family out
Speaker 3: there that care very much about this case. She still
Speaker 3: has friends that think about her all the time. I'm
Speaker 3: just the one that carrying the torch, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to keep carrying that torch until we can say that
Speaker 3: Melissa Witt has justice.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I applaud you for your extraordinary work and this
Speaker 2: book connected by fate. I want to thank you very
Speaker 2: much for this interview. For those people that might want
Speaker 2: to find out more information or find out more about
Speaker 2: this book, tell us about your website and social media.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, so, there's two ways to find me. I have
Speaker 3: two websites. One is Whokilledmissywit dot com. We urge people
Speaker 3: to go there. There's a lot of information. You can
Speaker 3: buy the books, you can click on links to go
Speaker 3: watch the film, and you can learn more about Melissa
Speaker 3: and find photos of her. If you want to know
Speaker 3: more about me and you're interested in the work I've
Speaker 3: done and any other work I'm going to do, you
Speaker 3: can go to La Donna Humphrey dot com. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of stuff on there about Melissa Witt too, of course,
Speaker 3: since that's a case that's so important to me. And
Speaker 3: then we really really just invite people at me than
Speaker 3: so much to us if you will follow who killed
Speaker 3: Missy Wit on Facebook? We get about, you know, ten
Speaker 3: between ten and one hundred new follows a day, and
Speaker 3: we just want to continue that trend. It's really important
Speaker 3: and we just encourage people to share the information. If
Speaker 3: we put it on Facebook, it's important, right. We don't
Speaker 3: do it for no reason. We just ask people to
Speaker 3: share it. It's really you know, how people can jump
Speaker 3: in and do their part in a cold case.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you so much, Ladna Humphrey connected by fate
Speaker 2: who killed Melissa Witt. It's been an absolute pleasure of
Speaker 2: speaking with you, and you have a great evening and
Speaker 2: good night.
Speaker 3: Thank you.