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<v Speaker 1>Bill Cunningham, the great American. Of course, Jason Barrett of

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<v Speaker 1>Barrett Media is the official trade magazine of talk radio

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<v Speaker 1>and also sports talking so much more. And I said

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<v Speaker 1>to Jason off there, I think it's important to have

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<v Speaker 1>a local radio talk show host doing the best they

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<v Speaker 1>can under many times difficult circumstances, but to have a

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<v Speaker 1>national perspective it is also critically important because what it

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<v Speaker 1>does is give you the ideas of what is working

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<v Speaker 1>or not working in other parts of this great country

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<v Speaker 1>of ours, so we can implement them or not implement

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<v Speaker 1>them locally. And also Jason Barrett has written a great

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<v Speaker 1>column the Three Real Concerns for the radio industry, specifically

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<v Speaker 1>talk radio, and Jason Barrett. Welcome, I think for the

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<v Speaker 1>first time to the Bill Cunningham Show. And Jason, how

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<v Speaker 1>are you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a pleasure to be here. Bill, thanks for the invite.

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<v Speaker 1>And before we talk about the award which you've given

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<v Speaker 1>me in this great radio station of ours, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to get into the broader issue about talk radio in general.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me give you a little bit of history. In

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty three, when I began here, we were told

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<v Speaker 1>for the first four years, don't talk about politics, don't

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<v Speaker 1>talk about sex, don't talk about too many things that

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<v Speaker 1>would cause an equal time request in Washington. In other words,

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<v Speaker 1>stay away from controversy, don't talk about politics, don't talk

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<v Speaker 1>about religion, don't talk about sex. So what I did

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<v Speaker 1>the first three or four years as an attorney was

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<v Speaker 1>to ask the lawyer. I did, talk about urology and

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<v Speaker 1>the prostate. Your prostate, what you can do with it.

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<v Speaker 1>I did car repair, I did Turner interior design, how

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<v Speaker 1>to make your house better. Then in nineteen eighty seven,

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<v Speaker 1>because Ronald Reagan, everything changed, which was okay, Now we

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<v Speaker 1>can talk about politics a free flow. It's called the

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<v Speaker 1>First Amendment, which wasn't practiced a long time. Then we

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<v Speaker 1>went through the second ideation, which was the commandos of

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<v Speaker 1>talk radio. And I can recall I was on a

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<v Speaker 1>night at the time that Arata Rivera had a talk

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<v Speaker 1>show in Chicago, and he organized six or seven of

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<v Speaker 1>the so called best talk radio host and I was

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<v Speaker 1>one of them in the nineteen nineties, and we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about the commandos of the airwaves, to break through, to

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<v Speaker 1>be almost like Penthouse or Playboy, to stretch the margins

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<v Speaker 1>of what can be done and can't be done. Then

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<v Speaker 1>that continued until nine to eleven, and after twenty oh one,

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<v Speaker 1>guess what happened. Now we got to get serious. We're

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<v Speaker 1>under attack. We went through the third ideation and now

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<v Speaker 1>we're in the fourth with digital and with podcasts and

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera. So when you wrote the column, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the three real concerns for the talk radio industry lay

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<v Speaker 1>out to the American people, if for the millions and

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<v Speaker 1>millions of listeners I have, but also for those of

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<v Speaker 1>us in the business, what do you see from AFAR

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<v Speaker 1>as some of the big problems in talk radio if any.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Bill, I think it starts with what you just

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<v Speaker 2>touched on. Is first things First, you have to understand

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<v Speaker 2>everything goes in cycles. There's going to be change. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you just touched on the three that you've experienced that

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<v Speaker 2>brought us to the current stage, and so change is inevitable.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously when you look at the present state of the end,

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<v Speaker 2>we're in that time and age where it's becoming a

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<v Speaker 2>digital revolution. It already is here, but it's only going

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<v Speaker 2>to grow in further and importance in the future, especially

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<v Speaker 2>as the dashboard inside of the vehicle changes, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the way you watch television changes, and so to me,

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<v Speaker 2>the three key things that I see going on that

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<v Speaker 2>I think are problematic for our business are Number one,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't market our product and our people at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, think about how many media outlets today thrive

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<v Speaker 2>off of advertising, and we tell clients it's important to

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<v Speaker 2>buy an ad to grow your business. But by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>don't ask us to do that. Yes, we're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to do that. So to me, marketing your product is

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<v Speaker 2>vital for our industry. That's the only way, especially in

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<v Speaker 2>this cluttered environment with you have millions of podcasts, Now,

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<v Speaker 2>how do you know what to even find? It goes

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<v Speaker 2>back to the old principle you need to market, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So that's number one. The second part, and this is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a challenge on anyone who runs a brand

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<v Speaker 2>is finding new voices and emerging talent the same way

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<v Speaker 2>you've got that opportunity in nineteen eighty three to start

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<v Speaker 2>out YEP and blaze a trail and become who you've become.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, we have stations that are twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>hours a day, seven days a week. We've got websites, podcasts,

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<v Speaker 2>YouTube channels, and there are so many outlets that don't

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<v Speaker 2>even put new voices yeah on these And it goes

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<v Speaker 2>back to like the people who run the stations, I

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<v Speaker 2>feel for the programmer because they're challenged. They're told, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't have resources for that. And I look at

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<v Speaker 2>that and I say, well, if you don't have resources

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<v Speaker 2>to invest in your future, what do you expect your

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<v Speaker 2>future to look like? Because eventually you're going to decide

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<v Speaker 2>one day, you know what, I've had a good run.

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<v Speaker 2>It's time for someone else to take the baton. But

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<v Speaker 2>who are you giving the baton too? If there's nobody

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<v Speaker 2>coming correct?

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<v Speaker 1>Correct?

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<v Speaker 2>So those those two things, marketing and finding new talent

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<v Speaker 2>are critical. But then I think the third part, and

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<v Speaker 2>this is something that the radio bosses hate to hear

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<v Speaker 2>because not every one of them are good at this,

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<v Speaker 2>is can you even identify what a hit is and

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<v Speaker 2>what great talent is? Like Bill, I listen to a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of radio because I consult brands, I write stories.

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<v Speaker 2>I've got a team of mine that work on coverage

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<v Speaker 2>every day and look for the shows like yours that

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<v Speaker 2>get recognized as the best in the business at what

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<v Speaker 2>they do. There are a lot of shows that are

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<v Speaker 2>not in that category, and they occupy airtime, and they're solid.

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<v Speaker 2>They're fine. You know, if you want to just listen

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<v Speaker 2>to something that's comfort food, that's fine. But the days

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<v Speaker 2>of the impactful the Rush Limb Boss to Howard Sterns,

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<v Speaker 2>the Mic and the Mad Dogs, if you're in the

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<v Speaker 2>sports world, those are appointment level shows. And today I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's just become there's too much of this in

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<v Speaker 2>the industry where people are looking at, oh, we just

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<v Speaker 2>got to keep the brand intect. We just have to

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<v Speaker 2>fill the time slot and reduce the expense rather than

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<v Speaker 2>find the next blazing you know, radio host who's going

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<v Speaker 2>to create create impact for years to come. And so

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of those future stars are building themselves into

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<v Speaker 2>digital world. Now you look across whether it's The Daily Wire,

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<v Speaker 2>Charlie Kirk, Officer Tatum, there are a lot of new

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<v Speaker 2>voices that are just building their brands digitally. And so

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<v Speaker 2>I look at that and I go, well, if you

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<v Speaker 2>want this industry to thrive in ten to twenty years,

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<v Speaker 2>you better be sinking money into the future voices that

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<v Speaker 2>are going to carry it forward.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Jason, what you brought up to. Third thing,

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<v Speaker 1>the boss's ID. Many of the bosses are shall we

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<v Speaker 1>say sales talent that have risen at the top and

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<v Speaker 1>they're in charge of sales. And when I started in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty three, I'm sure I was terrible the first

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<v Speaker 1>couple of years, but I was given time to develop.

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<v Speaker 1>I spent many years as a practicing attorney representing criminals.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how I got to talk radio, representing three individuals

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<v Speaker 1>charged with murdering police officers, and they asked me, how

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<v Speaker 1>can a nice young guy like you represent just despicable

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<v Speaker 1>human beings. I was given time to develop, and a

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<v Speaker 1>year or two later I became pretty good. And when

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<v Speaker 1>you have talent identification being done by salesmen, that's not

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<v Speaker 1>a good thing. Secondly, you talk about the new voices,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no money being developed in the market product. I

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<v Speaker 1>think we sell advertising, goods and services, etc. And we're

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<v Speaker 1>quite successful in it, but we should promote ourselves in

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<v Speaker 1>the same market in which we want our swimming pools

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<v Speaker 1>and our cars and our insurance, financial consulting, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>We want we want that to be part of it too,

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<v Speaker 1>So we don't market. We don't have new voices when

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<v Speaker 1>individuals like myself and Mike McConnell and so many people here,

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<v Speaker 1>Rocky boym and Eddie Fingers move on. Guess what, there's

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<v Speaker 1>no one coming up. There's no minor league. We used

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<v Speaker 1>to have minor leagues. You might have three hundred talk

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<v Speaker 1>radio stations in the Midwest. Now we probably have five,

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<v Speaker 1>five or six. So the minor leagues develop new talent

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't exist, and we have to advertise our own

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<v Speaker 1>product in our own market because it works. Secondly, we

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<v Speaker 1>need new voices. And thirdly, we need individuals, maybe like

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<v Speaker 1>a Tony Bender, who can identify new talent that can

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<v Speaker 1>be developed. And if we don't do those three things,

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<v Speaker 1>we're in trouble. And I don't think we can be.

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<v Speaker 1>As long as the talent is there, the marketing is there,

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<v Speaker 1>and we can identify new ways of getting the spoken

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<v Speaker 1>word out. Whether it's a podcast or whatever, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>spoken word. And as long as human beings have existed,

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<v Speaker 1>going back fifty thousand years, there's always been a spoken word.

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<v Speaker 1>Whether it's whether it's in a cave or it's in

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<v Speaker 1>a tunnel, it's in a hole, it's in a tree,

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<v Speaker 1>We've always spoke to each other about what's coming. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's the rule of talk. Ready to be coaching to

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<v Speaker 1>be interesting, to be provocative, and if we don't do that,

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<v Speaker 1>this industry is in trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the other I always chalk it up to this bill.

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<v Speaker 2>I've always run by the adage of people like to

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<v Speaker 2>hear people talk with and about other people need interesting

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<v Speaker 2>people who can do that, right, who can form a

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<v Speaker 2>connection with a listener, who could interview interesting people, who

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<v Speaker 2>have you know, unique perspectives on the world in front

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<v Speaker 2>of us. And so, you know, in the years past,

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<v Speaker 2>we would look out to, as you noted, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the smaller markets. Go find this guy in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the country, in a small city, bring him into

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<v Speaker 2>a larger market. He'll be thrilled to finally get a

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<v Speaker 2>bigger stage to perform on. Today, people just build their

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<v Speaker 2>own identities with podcasts and YouTube and they can make

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<v Speaker 2>enough money doing that that they don't need to go

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<v Speaker 2>to Middle America and relocate. And so in the past

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<v Speaker 2>it'd be like, well, wouldn't you be privileged to work

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<v Speaker 2>at our radio station and look at this great opportunity.

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<v Speaker 2>And today they go, wait, you want to pay me

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<v Speaker 2>what I already make independently. I don't leave my house,

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<v Speaker 2>I create my own content. I don't have a boss.

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<v Speaker 2>So unless you're going to change my life from a

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<v Speaker 2>financial standpoint, that makes so much sense to get rid

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<v Speaker 2>of this. Why do that? And so if you do

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<v Speaker 2>have people who are young who are coming into your

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<v Speaker 2>place of business, you should want to get them around

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<v Speaker 2>as much as possible and show them what they can

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<v Speaker 2>create here, because look, you got in the business just

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<v Speaker 2>as I did, and you probably the minute you started

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<v Speaker 2>doing was like, Wow, this is really cool. I love

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<v Speaker 2>what I do. And that's our superpower as an industry

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<v Speaker 2>is when you bring people into the fold with a

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<v Speaker 2>brand like an LW, they go, wow, look at the

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<v Speaker 2>bigness of this radio station. I could be part of this.

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<v Speaker 2>But you can't do that if you don't bring them

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<v Speaker 2>into the fold and give them a shot. And the

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<v Speaker 2>first part you touched on, you know, listen, it's okay

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<v Speaker 2>if some people in management come from a sales side.

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<v Speaker 2>I do think you need to understand how to make

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<v Speaker 2>money as well as grow an audience. But what I've

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<v Speaker 2>found happening a lot, especially the last decade since I

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<v Speaker 2>started consulting and building my brand, is that there's become

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<v Speaker 2>too much reliance on the sales side and not enough

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<v Speaker 2>on programming. And I've made this comment a number of

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<v Speaker 2>times to clients, is if the radio industry controlled film,

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<v Speaker 2>we would tell Steven Spielberg how to write movies. And

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<v Speaker 2>you can't do that. You've got to let Steven Spielberg

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<v Speaker 2>pick the actors, pick the setting that he shoots in,

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<v Speaker 2>because that guy knows how to create a hit movie

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<v Speaker 2>that makes money. And so we just need more Steven

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<v Speaker 2>Spielberg's in the industry and salespeople who are smart enough

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<v Speaker 2>to say, listen, if he's really good at identifying talent

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<v Speaker 2>and creating hit content, he's going to help me make

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of money, right, you know, And so to

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<v Speaker 2>me it just goes You know, these are not revolutionary ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just that I think sometimes we take our eye

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<v Speaker 2>off the ball and get so focused on this week,

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<v Speaker 2>this day, this month, that we're not thinking about two years,

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<v Speaker 2>three years. In the same way, you were given time

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<v Speaker 2>to develop great talent, take kind to develop. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it takes you two years to connect with an audience

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<v Speaker 2>and really start to become a you know, a trusted

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<v Speaker 2>friend on the air. And so if anything, I just

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<v Speaker 2>think we've got to get back to our roots and

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<v Speaker 2>really understand that, like Unlike the year's past where you

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<v Speaker 2>were compared to other radio the future is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be do you do audio better than television? Do you

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<v Speaker 2>do audio better than print? Bill? Go look at the

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<v Speaker 2>New York Times on YouTube. They do better video and

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<v Speaker 2>have more of a following than TV stations, Yet people

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<v Speaker 2>would call them the newspaper. So you know, when you

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<v Speaker 2>get into the world of competing with Spotify, Apple, Amazon

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<v Speaker 2>and every other news operation from television to print, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing audio as well as you, well, then what

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<v Speaker 2>makes you unique and important in a decade. You've got

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<v Speaker 2>to continue to invest in your product and your people.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, someone starting here in the beginning, I would

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<v Speaker 1>say to number one, be an interesting person, Be well read,

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<v Speaker 1>know how the world operates, Be a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>an a historian, a little bit of political scientists, be

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of a geologist. Be a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of an urban planner. In other words, have some experiences

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<v Speaker 1>in life. Number two. You have to have to build

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<v Speaker 1>your brand. And by that I mean we had a

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<v Speaker 1>living legendre named Jim Scott who would have business cards

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<v Speaker 1>printed up. When you got off the air at nine

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<v Speaker 1>or ten o'clock in the morning, he would walk around

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<v Speaker 1>restaurants at lunch time, hent out his cards, meet people

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<v Speaker 1>like he was running for office, and he would say, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>listen to me tomorrow morning. What's your name again, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>mention it. And what I did in the beginning was

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<v Speaker 1>take every speaking arrangement that I could get. Every engagement

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<v Speaker 1>that got a hold of me, if they wanted a

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<v Speaker 1>pep rally, someone to cheer them up for a football

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<v Speaker 1>or basketball game, or speak to some other group. I

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<v Speaker 1>was always available to go speak to build my brand.

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<v Speaker 1>And then when events took place in Cincinnati, whether it's

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<v Speaker 1>the reds of the Bengals, or a flood, or a

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<v Speaker 1>political upheaval or some other disaster, those individuals knew kind

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<v Speaker 1>of they kind of know Bill Cunningham, the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>my nickname is Willy. Get a hold of Willie, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I would call them. In the beginning, I would

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<v Speaker 1>have high school coaches on the air with me in

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<v Speaker 1>order to talk about their big game the next night

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<v Speaker 1>Friday night, and then they would invite me to the

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<v Speaker 1>pep rally and I would share them up and get

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<v Speaker 1>them to win the game or lose the game. Now

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<v Speaker 1>what I do is invite in the state champions So

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<v Speaker 1>if you want a state championship boys or girls basketball, football, hockey,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it might be, soccer, I'll bring in the coach

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<v Speaker 1>along with three or four star players. Now what would

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<v Speaker 1>happen is the entire school would be listening. They wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to know why Muller High School won the state basketball

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<v Speaker 1>toler or why Beach whatod High School in northern Kentucky

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<v Speaker 1>did well? And I had the coach on and then

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<v Speaker 1>I build the brand, and then I try to be interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I try to be well read. I try to be

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<v Speaker 1>a good interviewer. I try to connect with the community

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<v Speaker 1>and touch everyone within one hundred miles of Cincinnati. And

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<v Speaker 1>after forty one years, I've been somewhat successful at doing

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<v Speaker 1>that because I worked at it. You just can't show

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<v Speaker 1>up in the morning and say, Okay, what have we

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<v Speaker 1>got today? The night before, I'm thinking about today. What

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<v Speaker 1>am I going to do that this afternoon? On Monday?

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<v Speaker 1>Who do I go? What's the angle? Go online? Find

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<v Speaker 1>out what's going on. I read the Inquirer. Print media

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<v Speaker 1>is largely collapsed. It doesn't exist much anymore. There's something there.

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<v Speaker 1>Local television does a okay job reporting the news. I

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<v Speaker 1>go there, I look at other sources, and I connect

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<v Speaker 1>with people to inform my audience and to entertain them,

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<v Speaker 1>and never forget the entertainment aspect. Many times I'd listen

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<v Speaker 1>to Rush Limbaugh and laugh, and you've got to be informative,

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<v Speaker 1>and you've got to be entertaining. You've got to be

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<v Speaker 1>connected to the community. They have to know who you are.

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<v Speaker 1>When something happens, they want to turn and see what

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<v Speaker 1>Willy has to say about it. Jason Barrett of Barrett Media,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, listen, Bill, what you just touched on is the

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<v Speaker 2>importance of the marketing aspect of what we've touched on

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<v Speaker 2>in addition to the content. Right to me, it always

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<v Speaker 2>comes back to you've got to have great content when

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<v Speaker 2>you step into that studio in front of the microphone

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<v Speaker 2>on right. Yes, but you also have to build relationships

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<v Speaker 2>with your guests, with your advertisers, with your audience. And

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<v Speaker 2>so you're in the Bill Cunningham business. WLW survives and

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<v Speaker 2>thrives based on the fact that you are a really

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<v Speaker 2>good content creator who knows how to connect with people.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the more people that come to your party

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<v Speaker 2>every day, the better it is for wlw's business, the

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<v Speaker 2>better it is for the Bill Cunningham business. And so

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<v Speaker 2>what you're touching on is something that every host in

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<v Speaker 2>America should be doing. They should be marketing themselves. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't you know, today we have the advantage that we

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<v Speaker 2>didn't when we were coming up in the industry, where

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't have social platforms, we didn't have video the

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<v Speaker 2>way we did today. I mean, I was thrilled that

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have to cut real to real tape when

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<v Speaker 2>I started, right, So things have definitely changed. There's more

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity than ever to market. You know, it still goes

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<v Speaker 2>back to shaking hands, building friends. You know, the same

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<v Speaker 2>way you talked about connecting with the high school coaches

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<v Speaker 2>is the same thing you have to do when you're

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<v Speaker 2>working with an advertiser to make sure that they support

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<v Speaker 2>the station and your show going forward. And so all

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<v Speaker 2>of these things are easily doable if people prioritize their

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<v Speaker 2>business and care about it. And it can't just be

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<v Speaker 2>the talent though, Bill, because you're going to do your

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<v Speaker 2>part to try to make sure your show performs, But

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<v Speaker 2>the radio station has to do their show their part.

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<v Speaker 2>Two and I'm not just saying WLW. Every radio station

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<v Speaker 2>has to do their part to let their local market know, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we have a great product, Hey we have great talent,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is a place you should spend your time,

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<v Speaker 2>because if you do that, eventually people spend time and

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<v Speaker 2>that becomes important and appealing to a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>who want to spend money.

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<v Speaker 1>With great conversation. And once again, I want to thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>but I guess I was selected as the best talk

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<v Speaker 1>show host in America middays, and I'm very thankful of

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<v Speaker 1>that you picked this radio station, or shall we say

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<v Speaker 1>those in the industry pick this radio station as the

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<v Speaker 1>best talk radio station in America. And Jason Barrett, Barrett Media,

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<v Speaker 1>the official trade magazine of talk radio, thanks for coming

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<v Speaker 1>on the Bill Cunningham Show. And we speak the same language.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm glad that you and I are both out

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<v Speaker 1>there and people like Tony Bender and programming they can

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<v Speaker 1>to identify talent and help us out. And maybe we'll

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<v Speaker 1>do it again and about a year to see where

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<v Speaker 1>talk radio is at that point. But Jason, thank you

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<v Speaker 1>for what you've done for the industry, and thank you

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<v Speaker 1>for that designation of yours truly in this station. And Jason,

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<v Speaker 1>may you continue to have a great day and God

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<v Speaker 1>bless you.

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<v Speaker 2>My pleasure. Bill, continued success to you and the crew.

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<v Speaker 1>God bless America. Let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham News

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<v Speaker 1>Radio seven hundred WLW