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Start having the 21 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.159 most fun ever. At casino dot com. 22 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:05.599 Bill Rogue, where I lost the terms conditions, Eating plus Lost. 23 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:18.719 You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking 24 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.840 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 25 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:29.200 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 26 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:32.920 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 27 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.519 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 28 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.400 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 29 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:51.280 Good Eating. 30 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.599 This is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, 31 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.359 The most shocking Killers in true crime History and the 32 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.840 authors that have written about them. In the mid to 33 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.079 nineteen eight mid to late nineteen eighties, a quiet neighborhood 34 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:08.919 near Tacoma, Washington, was terrorized by the violence of three men, 35 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:13.319 Paul Saint Pierre, an alcoholic psychopath, his younger brother Chris, 36 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:16.400 who had committed unspeakable acts to be one of the boys, 37 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:21.159 and Paul's childhood friend Druggie Andrew Webb. The three beat 38 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:23.719 up one man before cutting his throat on a deserted beach. 39 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.240 They decapitated another victim, whom Paul Saint Pierre had killed, 40 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:30.319 and buried his head in a bucket of concrete. Soon, 41 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:33.199 the twisted triad turned on each other. Saint Pierre shot 42 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:36.120 Andrew Webb and the stomach during an argument. Chris Saint 43 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:39.159 Pierre called the cops. He and Webb, who survived his attack, 44 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:41.960 were sentenced to life in prison. Paul Saint Pierre choked 45 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.599 to death alone in his jail cell. The book we're 46 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:49.439 featuring this evening is Headshot by my friend and journalist 47 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:54.439 and author and talk show radio host and TV radio 48 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:58.800 personality Burl Bear. Welcome back to the program, and thank 49 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.639 you for greeting to this interview about Headshot. 50 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:05.120 Burrow Bear. Well, hi there, Dan's great to be back 51 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:09.280 on your program. Everything you stuff calling me a raconteur 52 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:10.879 or wanted criminal. 53 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:13.280 Well whatever you like. 54 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.599 You know you wanted criminal. 55 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:22.080 Yet, well it's probably uh probably won't be befitting you, 56 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.400 you know, being it is either story. 57 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:29.120 I must admit the book Headshots were the stranger combination 58 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:33.840 of crimes and combination of individuals. And not only were 59 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:37.039 the people uh strange and we'll get to them and 60 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:42.159 the crimes horrific, but the court cases that uh that 61 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:46.800 transpired after these murders were the phrase bob Ville news 62 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:50.280 is the trial was a pig circus. I mean, there's 63 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:56.759 completely as insane as the crimes prosecutorial conduct is unbelievable. 64 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:00.360 Yeah, that's it's great too. This this story, you have 65 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.719 a n act for unearthing stories that have much more 66 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:06.000 complexity than when you even look at it. And when 67 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.759 you look at this it this looks like some three senseless, 68 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:14.479 crazed individuals doing some bizarre, very very strange stuff. So 69 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:17.720 you do really capture that as well. But like a 70 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.199 lot of books that you've done, you really it is 71 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:26.120 an examination of the judicial system too, in this particular case, 72 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.160 and it is a great example of what could happen, 73 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:30.240 and this is a great example of what does happen. 74 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:34.040 So it is I've had people tell me that this 75 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:39.839 book the courtroom shenanigans, scared them more than the murder. 76 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:43.879 Yeah, well, I think that's I can relate. You know, 77 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:49.000 where you're you know, the equally fascinating and bizarre story 78 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.439 continues when you get to the court case. There's no 79 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.480 normality going on when when you get the trial or 80 00:04:54.519 --> 00:04:58.839 anything any easy answers or you know, there's surprises and 81 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:04.360 and like you say, a fascinating examination basically by virtue 82 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:05.360 of this crazy story. 83 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:07.600 So of course we don't know what the story is, 84 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:09.240 so I guess maybe we should start to and tell 85 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:11.839 them at least part of it. You're it's you're conducting this. 86 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:13.240 So where do you want to get. 87 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:15.920 Well, let's start off with when this was. This is 88 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:18.399 in the mid eighties, nineteen eighty four, but there's a 89 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:20.199 you know before that. We're going to go back a 90 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:23.040 little bit into the early eighties, you know, the really 91 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:27.040 classic period of killers, I think, but let's go back 92 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:32.000 to that time in a quiet neighborhood in or near Tacoma, Washington. 93 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.759 So let's tell us where this is and tomba wash. 94 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:38.959 That and what you're dealing with is and I do 95 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:41.680 in the book is pretty much also the story of 96 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:46.839 two fascinating families, the Saint Pierre family and the web family. 97 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:53.639 Saint Pierre's mister Missus Saint Pierre both wonderful people, school teachers, 98 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.000 and they had these two boys, Christopher Saint Pierre, Paul 99 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.560 Saint Pierre, and I believe we had a daughter as well. 100 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.879 And the one son, Paul was how do we put 101 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.360 this politely, an alcoholic sociopath and a desire to kill 102 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:11.519 all the time. He was in the United States Marines, 103 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:14.279 and they booted him out. I guess they're afraid to 104 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:19.040 kill somebody. And when he came back from the service, 105 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:25.800 his brother Christopher had a good job at an auto 106 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.720 repair place right next to the house he was living in, 107 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:30.839 and he had a good life going for him. And 108 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:34.319 his brother was very domineering. Shows up and says I'm 109 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:36.839 moving in he would he like it or not, And 110 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.680 being the dominant personality, he pretty much set the tone 111 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:42.199 for what was going to be going on. What was 112 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.480 going on was not to anyone's liking. I can tell 113 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.000 you that he had an experience where he was in 114 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.399 a supermarket and he saw someone doing something wrong, was 115 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.319 really wrong. Paul was armed. He took out a gun 116 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:58.680 and shot the fellow and that was okay in those circumstances. 117 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:03.360 It was considered an actor of bravery, and he loved it. 118 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.000 He got to shoot somebody and didn't get in trouble 119 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.759 for it. And so after that he wanted to shoot 120 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:09.480 people all the time. 121 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:13.160 What exactly, It's not like you to hold back some 122 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:15.720 information details. What exactly was this guy doing in the 123 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:16.279 grocery store. 124 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:19.600 It was so bad, you know, back in the eighties 125 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.600 of my memories, a little lapse whether he was trying 126 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.519 to rob the place, or something like that and came 127 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.319 to rescue and so it was considered justifiable and actually 128 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:34.439 rather heroic. And so he liked that that she was 129 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:36.279 able to whip out a gun and shoot somebody. And 130 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:41.199 it was just that opportunity doesn't present itself very often, no, 131 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.600 so he kept looking shoot people, you know the old 132 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:48.519 He tried and he liked it. He wanted to do 133 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:52.279 it again. Life does not present opportunities for shooting people, 134 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:56.639 so he created his own. However, before he got to 135 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:04.120 shoot more people. We have Andrew Webb his best friend. Now, Chris, 136 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:06.439 I mean, excuse me, Paul Saint Pierre is gone now. 137 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:11.800 He died shortly after being arrested under the strangers the circumstances. 138 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.079 Died from shoving pieces filled toilet paper down his own throat. 139 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:19.519 I don't think so, but that's supposedly what happened while 140 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:25.439 under suicide watch after having a fight with the guards. Interesting, 141 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:31.360 he had it out. Now, Andrew Webb, his family is 142 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:36.720 truly fascinating. It comes from a family of nine kids. 143 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:41.480 His mother, this poor woman with a very diar friend 144 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:43.480 of mine's grandmother. That's how I found out about the case. 145 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:48.240 She was poison her grandson put rat poison in his 146 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:51.120 coffee and he become terribly ill. And then she'd take 147 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.000 care of him. That's, you know, munchause in syndrome by proxy. 148 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:58.120 And she used to also beat him up. She'd kick 149 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:00.399 him and beat him. And my friend was a a 150 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.399 football player. They'd show up at school with black eyes 151 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:05.879 and bruises and he said, wow, what happened to you? 152 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:07.840 Man said, oh, I got into a fight. No, he 153 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.200 didn't get into his fight. His tinmely little grandmother would 154 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:11.879 beat the crap out of him, and he led her 155 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:15.080 because he didn't want to hurt her. Well she was 156 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.519 quite a disturbed woman who had been horribly abused as 157 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:23.039 a child, raped by her father repeatedly. The mother took 158 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:26.000 off and left her and her younger sister alone with 159 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:29.840 the alcoholic, abusive father. When the father started looking at 160 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:35.200 the younger sister the same way, the future of missus 161 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.159 Webb said, listen, if you keep your hands off of her, 162 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.639 I won't complain anymore about what you do to me. 163 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.320 Well E, when she was eighteen, she married, got married, 164 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.120 got to take out of there. All she wanted to 165 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.840 do was have a nice, normal family, a good Christian family. 166 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:51.039 She had nine kids, and each one of those kids, 167 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:57.600 either with a few exceptions, either was a child molester, 168 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.600 a murderer, or married a child molester hor murderer. 169 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:04.879 Wow like the legacy. 170 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:09.840 Yeah, well multi generational incest. Originally, I had said the 171 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:11.679 book that he couldn't tell who was doing who in 172 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.759 the family without a chart and a graph of tat 173 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:18.840 out because you know, imply things about some of the 174 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:21.559 other people, you know, the other kids that port remained 175 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:24.720 to the story, you know, the primary story. But it 176 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.159 was quite a quite a disturbed family despite all the 177 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:33.360 best intentions. And Andrew was was brain damaged because he 178 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.559 had his head run over by the family car. That 179 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:41.919 sounds because the kid was crawling behind the car and 180 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.000 someone backed up over his head and moved so they 181 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:48.639 drove the car forward. Uh. So he had his own 182 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:51.320 set of problems. Andrew got in a lot of trouble, 183 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:53.360 a lot of They had a lot of paranoil, a 184 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:54.559 lot of acts of violence. 185 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:55.679 Uh. 186 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.440 You know, someone sold his marijuana plants. He took a 187 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.080 gun and went and got him back. And he was 188 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:03.480 in trouble. And the cops said, listen, if you can 189 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.360 stay out of trouble for ninety days, you don't have 190 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.519 to go to prison, so don't get in any trouble. 191 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:15.360 Well got in trouble. He was at a party with 192 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.320 Paul and Christopher and all these guys, and they decided 193 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:21.639 that this innocent kid, Damon Wells, had been plotting to 194 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:25.240 steal from them, which he hadn't, but Andrew was paranoid. 195 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:30.240 So they took Damon out to a part Discovery part, 196 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.440 took away his shoes and we're going to make him 197 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:36.200 walk home. And he said, I'm going to tell on you. 198 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:39.159 I'm going to tell the cops what you did. Well, 199 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:41.679 not wanting to get in trouble, Andrew whipped out a 200 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:43.279 knife and slashed Damon's throat. 201 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:46.279 Yeah and three months ago. 202 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:48.960 Yeah, I know how to keep from getting in trouble. 203 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:49.559 I'll kill him. 204 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:50.639 Yeah. 205 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.399 So this poor innison kid and his throat slit, and 206 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:56.240 the three guys stand there and watch him die, and 207 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:01.039 then they bury the body up and up in the mountains. 208 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:05.919 Not long afterwards, another murder takes place when Paul Saint 209 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.320 Pierre they go to a rock concert. They see this 210 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:10.759 nice kid, Johnny Cord, and buye him over the house 211 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:14.279 with some pizza. Well, Andrew and Chris go out to 212 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:17.759 get I think some pizza and beer. John's there alone 213 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:21.720 with Paul. When they get back, the guys are John's 214 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:24.559 on the floor with a bullet through his head, and 215 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.440 Paul's going, well, I thought I felt threatened, so I 216 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:33.960 shot him. They took him. 217 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:36.279 What was the what was the threat from the what 218 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:38.080 was the why did they invite him to the house 219 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:38.799 in the first place? 220 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:39.799 Just just for fun? 221 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:40.159 You know? 222 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:41.919 They were having a good time at the concert and 223 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:44.120 there was this nice guy. Maybe they kne him from 224 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:49.399 school or something and invited him over. Okay, and they 225 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:51.799 wanted quite dead. Now, this is the fellow that they 226 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.559 they took up and they buried, not not too far 227 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.559 from the other fellow they buried. And then later Paul 228 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:03.080 thinks to himself, for if they ever dig up this 229 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:05.440 body and they get a bolt out of their head, 230 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:08.039 they'll be able to match that boat by gun. 231 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:10.080 Right, So what do they do? 232 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:12.600 Well, instead of throwing away the gun, they go back up, 233 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.559 dig up the body, chop the head off, put the 234 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.080 head in the bucket of concrete, and throw the bucket 235 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.919 the Pewau River. Eventually the bucket is found with their head. 236 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:25.080 They put their head back on the body and discovered 237 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.879 the poor fellow didn't die from getting shot. The bolt 238 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:32.320 had gone through his cheek and simply broken his John 239 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.120 knocked him out. They could have taken him to the hospital, 240 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.919 but he came to before they buried him. So Paul 241 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.759 stabbed him seventeen or eighteen times. And then, I mean, 242 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.360 the whole thing is insane, absolutely insane. Yeah, neither one 243 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:49.799 of these homicides make any sense whatsoever. Now to continue 244 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:53.360 with this insanity and ridiculousness, because this sounds like you 245 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.840 couldn't find a motive in this. Really there wasn't almost No, 246 00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:58.240 it's just motive list. 247 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.440 And the other thing too, we didn't talk about too much. 248 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.679 He's talk about Andrew in the pot. But Andrew's got 249 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:05.799 a little bit more of a drug problem than marijuana, right. 250 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.360 Well, yeah, he drinks continually. He also takes large amounts 251 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.360 of psychedelics. He's married, by the way, Yeah, actually were 252 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.000 who married him, and a couple of kids, and the 253 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.480 wife is fighting. Andrew curled up under the sink or 254 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:25.639 in the laundry basket. Uh, he had some real, real problems. Yeah, 255 00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:27.559 and he also spoke unfaithful. 256 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:29.759 He was unfaithful. 257 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.480 That's why she finally kicked him out. 258 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:37.480 Okay, Now how does it Now? This is in a 259 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:39.559 short period of time, like you say, and there they 260 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:41.919 bury these couple of bodies and there's real no motive. 261 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.159 They're not on a like a crime spree by intention 262 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:46.360 or anything. Now, how does it get to the point 263 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:48.879 and why are they why are these two guys fighting, 264 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.399 and and how does Andrew get you know, how did 265 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.279 they get shot? So to us about about the pounder 266 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:57.879 gets shot? And what and how long is it after 267 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:00.679 these murders and what do they do after these murders 268 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:06.360 and the police what what do the police idea on this? 269 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.759 Police have no idea these murders have even taken place, right, 270 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:12.799 they've there have been a couple of missing person reports, 271 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.399 but there's no The police don't know that anyone's been 272 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:20.200 murdered because they've taken these bodies and they buried him. 273 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.399 Everyone's kept their mouths shut. Paul's looking for more excuses 274 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:27.840 to shoot more people. He confides to some of his buddies. 275 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.799 You know. He goes and spends one night with a 276 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:34.320 one friend of his and we start talking about how 277 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.480 much he likes shooting people. The other guy spends all 278 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:39.799 night long and sleeping with one eye open. Paul's going 279 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:44.519 to shoot him. What happened was between he and Andrew's typical. 280 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.240 They got into a fight over money, you know, fifteen dollars, 281 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.399 ten dollars, something like that. And Andrews says to Paul, 282 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.200 what are you going to do? Paul? Shoot me? Well, 283 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.759 that was kind of the wrong thing to say, because 284 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:01.080 what the heck of an idea? Paul without a gun 285 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.720 and proceeds to shoot Andrew, doesn't kill him, but puts 286 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:05.840 a bull through him. Where's he fot? 287 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:09.159 Where's he shooting him? Shoots him in the stomach, and 288 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.840 how dangerous is it where he shot him? Well, then 289 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:14.840 if he could have died except for the fact one 290 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:16.639 of the fellows is there or one of the other 291 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:21.120 buddies runs down the street into a local tavern intos, 292 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:25.559 someone called the called the cops. Someone has been shot, 293 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.279 and you get an ambulance there and you get the police. 294 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:33.799 And that's when Christopher Saint Pierre decides it's time to 295 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:38.320 expose everything that's going on, and he tells the cops everything. 296 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.360 He shows him where the bodies are buried. Now we've 297 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:43.000 got a big deal going on here. Now we've got 298 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:49.440 two homicides. We've got three guys, Chris, Paul, Andrew, and 299 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:53.960 the prosecutor. One of the lamest statements ever made, and 300 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.879 it gets worse. Says, the first one through the door 301 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.559 gets the deal. He actually says, well, first one through 302 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:03.559 the door was Andrew. 303 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:09.960 Yep. Well, of course, yeah. And he does something that, 304 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.680 in a strange way, I have to admire him for 305 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.119 he makes a deal with the prosecutor that if they 306 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.200 will take the death penalty off the table, if they'll 307 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:24.200 take life in prison without parole off the table, he 308 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:30.240 will testify against Paul and Chris that they were involved 309 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:34.920 in the murder of Dame new Wells. He gets up 310 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.960 on the witness stand. They've already signed the deal, signed 311 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:39.440 off on the deal, and he gets up and he 312 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:43.000 tells the truth. He says, I'm so, I'm one hundred 313 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:46.119 percent of responsible. I'm the only one who killed him. 314 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:47.839 I did it because I didn't want to get in trouble. 315 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.640 They had. They did not know what was going to happen. 316 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.599 They weren't expecting it. I'm the one who did it. 317 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:56.319 He said, well, why did you say you testify? I 318 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.359 guess I said, that's what you get the deal, and. 319 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.920 They upheld the deal. Well it was the way you 320 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:03.119 know that. 321 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.240 They usually they don't do the deal until after you testify. Well, 322 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:13.039 they'd done the deal before he testified. Uh. In fact, 323 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.599 Andrews had a prison now you know. So it's Chris 324 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:16.400 Saint Pierre. 325 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:20.279 Both give you give the update on them in their 326 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.799 in their high school reunion that they they went to 327 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:23.759 the reunion. 328 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.400 The strange it was that uh, first of the first 329 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:32.440 Christopher Saint Pierre was was found. It was found guilty 330 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:36.920 in both these murders, and on appeal he was he wasn't. 331 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.319 He was only found guilty of hating and betting like 332 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.839 and burying the body on the second one. On the 333 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.480 first one because he didn't stop but he stood there. 334 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:50.880 I mean, uh, you know, Andrews slashes his kids throat 335 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.559 and Chris didn't call the cops. He didn't run away 336 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:59.119 and get an ambulance. He stood there and watched uh die. 337 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.640 Yeah, it was overturned because he had argued that he 338 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.160 didn't have a chance to confront his witnesses against him. 339 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:10.759 And so but that of course, when you when you 340 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:12.880 have an appeal and you're looking at the rest of 341 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.759 your life or a death penalty. You know they scrutinize 342 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:19.519 those cases a little bit more obviously. 343 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.079 I mean, as one of the attorneys said, I know 344 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:24.559 the book in front of me. He said, this is Hey, guys, it. 345 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:26.039 Is a Ryan. I'm not sure if you know this 346 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:28.279 about me, but I'm a bit of a fun fanatic 347 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:29.799 when I can. 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See website for details. 369 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.559 In the United States of America, we do have a 370 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:28.240 thing called the Bill of Rights, and the trial is 371 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:31.880 supposed to take place in the courtroom down the press, 372 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:34.319 and you are supposed to people to confront your accuser. 373 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.440 Now, would I want to go back just a little 374 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.200 bit for our audience where I need I would like 375 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.279 you to explain how because this is really the crucial 376 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.839 thing in this story is how on earth or why 377 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.720 on earth did this guy who doesn't fit this profile 378 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:56.759 at all, Chris Saint Pierre, Why does he suddenly decide well, 379 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.200 I think this is the time to admit to a 380 00:20:59.200 --> 00:20:59.960 bunch of things here. 381 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.680 Because Chris was a nice guy. He wasn't nuts like 382 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.799 his brother. He had no interest in killing people all 383 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.799 the time. He wasn't I mean, he had a job, 384 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:16.319 He had a career, you know, a job path ahead 385 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:17.720 of him. He wasn't you know, I mean he was 386 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:23.079 He had a very good reputation all the way around 387 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.079 the influence. I mean had an older brother, however, who 388 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:31.759 was a very dominant personality, and he could be in 389 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:36.000 the shadow of his brother. The other book, I wrote, 390 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:39.480 mom said kill where the little girl would do whatever 391 00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:42.200 mom said. And you know she was a you know, 392 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.720 straight a student, sports star. Everyone loved her. But if 393 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.240 mom said do something, you did it. And if mom 394 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:52.559 said kill somebody, you do it. You don't argue. And 395 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.599 in this case, it was the brother who was the 396 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:58.359 dominant personality, and he moved into the house and he 397 00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:01.519 really took over and things were just out of hand. 398 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.559 I think Chris would have gone to the cops sooner 399 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.599 if he could have got up the wherewith all of 400 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:10.839 the gumption to do it. And people who knew him, 401 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:14.920