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<v Speaker 1>True crime stories often talk about and show brutal cases

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<v Speaker 1>involving individuals who set out to take their victims down

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<v Speaker 1>before moving on to the next, and so on and repeating.

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<v Speaker 1>These horrific stories show murderers and monsters alike, many with

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<v Speaker 1>the same motive to hurt, to abuse, to mane, and

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<v Speaker 1>to kill. But we often forget that there are crimes

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<v Speaker 1>that get committed out there out of brash decisions, out

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<v Speaker 1>of panic, and out of fear. Today's case blurs those lines,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's up to you to decide just where on

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<v Speaker 1>the spectrum this story lays.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to

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<v Speaker 2>Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. The following podcast

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<v Speaker 2>in your audience, listener discution.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not getting in opening this time. No, it happened

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<v Speaker 1>on Patreon.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, it happened in the pre show.

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<v Speaker 1>It did, so I do have a drink. But you're

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<v Speaker 1>not getting a next time on Wicked and Great.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, lots of times, yeah all have one, or you'll

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<v Speaker 2>have one, But yeah, we got nothing today, we got nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>Which okay, Nicole just brought up a.

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<v Speaker 2>Jedious well, I don't know, Okay, there could be some

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<v Speaker 2>accounts that are listening to this that are just like, no.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's a possibility. It's a legitimate possibility.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I just blew Ben's mind because.

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<v Speaker 1>Before we reveal what it is, those accountants would have

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<v Speaker 1>listened to the show and would know that it is

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<v Speaker 1>a legitimate part of the episodes. Uh huh and our

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<v Speaker 1>brand and Wicked and grim. Yeah, so go ahead lay

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<v Speaker 1>this wisdom on us.

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<v Speaker 2>What did you say, Well, because we had discovered when

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<v Speaker 2>we were doing our taxes that we can write off

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<v Speaker 2>our purchased merch for ourselves because like we're basically like

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<v Speaker 2>a walking billboard.

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<v Speaker 1>We're wearing our merch like our uniform sort of thing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which blew my mind and I was so excited.

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<v Speaker 2>So then as Ben was literally doing his intro, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't even know what the fuck he said, because I

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<v Speaker 2>was just going off in my head here. Thanks, but

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<v Speaker 2>could we not write off alcohol? You know, like, could

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<v Speaker 2>we some brewskis a year?

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<v Speaker 1>Because well, think of it this way. If we open

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<v Speaker 1>up each if we each open up an alcoholic beverage

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<v Speaker 1>each episode, Yeah, one episode a week, there's two of us,

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<v Speaker 1>we could theoretically write off one hundred and four alcoholic

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<v Speaker 1>beverages per year, not not mentioning how week.

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<v Speaker 2>Or like our Patreon episodes, so exactly, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we might be onto something here.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we write off booze?

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<v Speaker 2>Because you actually can though, because when you're doing your restaurants, right,

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<v Speaker 2>say you go out with like a client and you

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<v Speaker 2>have a glass of wine or something, Oh yeah, you

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<v Speaker 2>then go write that off. So I feel like writing

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<v Speaker 2>off alcohol is allowed.

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<v Speaker 1>But how much?

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<v Speaker 2>And I actually do write off alcohol too in another

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<v Speaker 2>sense because lots of times I'll give out like a bottle

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<v Speaker 2>of wine when I'm delivering a wedding, so like as

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<v Speaker 2>a client gift. So we need to talk to our

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<v Speaker 2>account I think we just solved it yet we can.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, So that's been our first week is talking

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<v Speaker 1>about business stuff, taxes, really trying to get the root

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<v Speaker 1>of all these things because I'm officially doing this now

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<v Speaker 1>full time. It's it's here, it's you're real, You're a weekend.

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<v Speaker 1>It's crazy and we haven't killed each other yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're going strong. We've done iemasks, spends trying to

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<v Speaker 2>get me to drink coffee. You know, it's just it's

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<v Speaker 2>going well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you'll be seeing all this stuff on Patreon if

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<v Speaker 1>you guys want to sign up. If not, though, that's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys are here and we appreciate that. But we

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<v Speaker 1>do have people who have signed up for Patreon that

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<v Speaker 1>we have to thank we do. And how many people

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<v Speaker 1>did you say signed up this week?

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<v Speaker 2>Think were twelve? Were? They're just like pumping over there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Twelve people signed up this week, which is incredible, So

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much. I'm probably gonna butcher some names

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<v Speaker 1>we actually do there too. We did, so we have

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<v Speaker 1>Christine Kennedy, Amanda Shory, Amber Lee, Marie Lafontaine, Timothy Stewart,

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<v Speaker 1>Laura Aldridge got to go over the next list here

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<v Speaker 1>Isabella Wall, Cecilia Ink, the cat Ty Colombo, Kyla Sparkman

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<v Speaker 1>and Jessica Watts. And Jessica Watts actually just won the

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<v Speaker 1>getaway too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just signed up. That's awesome, so.

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<v Speaker 1>Boom that easy. Just sign up for Patreon. You win something,

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<v Speaker 1>but you've done, You've win.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay when first, so well, thank you to all of

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<v Speaker 2>them that, like, yeah, it just blows our mind that

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<v Speaker 2>we're getting that much the word over there, so thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's funny as you're reading the names. I can

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<v Speaker 2>see in your eyes, like as you're about to approach

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<v Speaker 2>a hard name, there's a little bit of fear, just

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<v Speaker 2>like coming out and I'm like, Okay, that last name

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<v Speaker 2>is gonna be hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, some of them are difficult. It's it's true. And

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<v Speaker 1>even if you try, and even if you pronounce it correctly,

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<v Speaker 1>like there's different enunciations something, there's different inflections and different

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<v Speaker 1>languages and heritage, and you don't know if you're actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Getting it right, and some words can literally be pronounced

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<v Speaker 2>like a few ways. Really yeah, that's yeah, it's basically

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<v Speaker 2>what you said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so but you did good.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you and thank you to all those people who

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<v Speaker 2>have signed up.

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<v Speaker 1>And our patrons are are awesome. They're getting some cool

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<v Speaker 1>content behind the scenes. If you want to sign up

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<v Speaker 1>join them, link is down below in the description of

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast. If not, you hear that's cool too, So

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<v Speaker 1>thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>We appreciate you either way.

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<v Speaker 1>But we also got to talk about fearful. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know Jacko, who is a part of our

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<v Speaker 1>podcast and is who are EMC for Halloween week, yep,

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<v Speaker 1>he is coming out with his own podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't have we dropped that on here yet.

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<v Speaker 1>We dropped another thing was coming.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, this is it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Fearful. Jacko is hosting his own podcast called Fearful,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's all about paranormal mysteries and just creepy shit.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>It's dropping on June first three, so coming up soon.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys can go check out Fearful people over on

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<v Speaker 1>Patreon again. Kind of get a little bit of heads

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<v Speaker 1>up on this, and they kind of got a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of nose no on what's happening there.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, very exciting though.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, lots is happening for the world of Wicked and

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<v Speaker 1>Grim absolutely Anyways, shall we press forward?

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<v Speaker 2>I think so? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, it's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be a total surprise since I was thinking about alcohol

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<v Speaker 2>during your intro.

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<v Speaker 1>So didn't listen to it.

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<v Speaker 2>At all, hardly. I was very distracted.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, the intro didn't say a whole lot about

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<v Speaker 1>this episode. What it did say is that it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of blurs the line between those people who are very

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<v Speaker 1>much so murderers who go out to murder, okay, and

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<v Speaker 1>those who commit murders and crime via accident. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not saying accident per se but to self defense or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Something goes south. Right, Oh, so this is gonna be yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's going to blur the line in between, and

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<v Speaker 1>I want you guys to decide where exactly this lies.

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<v Speaker 1>If it was more accidental, if it was more on purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, Okay, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Now I will say right now it's definitely on purpose.

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<v Speaker 1>But I want to know how much on purpose? That's

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<v Speaker 1>the question.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So this story takes us off or starts us off

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<v Speaker 1>with an individual by the name of Tina Rose Hermann. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Tina was thirty two years old and living in Howard, Ohio.

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<v Speaker 1>She was described by her friends and family as a

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<v Speaker 1>loving mother. She that's a single mother, raised her two kids,

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah Maynard, who was thirteen and Cody Maynard, who was ten. Larry,

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<v Speaker 1>who was a kid's father, was unfortunately no longer in

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<v Speaker 1>the relationship with Tina, and you know, things just didn't

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<v Speaker 1>quite work out. So Tina lived with her two kids

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<v Speaker 1>alone at four eighty one King Beach Drive. Now, being

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<v Speaker 1>that Tina was supporting herself and her kids now without Larry,

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<v Speaker 1>she was a very diligent and dedicated employee where she worked,

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<v Speaker 1>which is why it was odd when she didn't show

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<v Speaker 1>up for her scheduled shift one day without calling in.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh oh.

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<v Speaker 1>So usually her day started at work near the evening

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<v Speaker 1>after her kids came home from school. Okay, she greet

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<v Speaker 1>him they come home from school, maybe even make him

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<v Speaker 1>a little dinner or something, and then she head off

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<v Speaker 1>to go punch the clock. Ok So, when she didn't

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<v Speaker 1>show up, her manager thought it was well, definitely.

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<v Speaker 2>Odd at a character.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she didn't even hear from her, it's not right.

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<v Speaker 1>So she tried to call Tina, but she didn't answer

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<v Speaker 1>her phone. So, being as concerned as she was, this

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<v Speaker 1>really was out of character, as you said, she decided

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<v Speaker 1>she was going to call nine one one. So on

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<v Speaker 1>November tenth, twenty ten, she called and asked for a

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<v Speaker 1>welfare check on Tina at her home. So it's not

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<v Speaker 1>like it's a super emergency, but she's definitely concerned. This

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<v Speaker 1>is aut a character. Can we get a welfare check?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? But I also have to admit, like, well done

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<v Speaker 2>on the boss there, definitely like realizing right away that

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<v Speaker 2>there could be an issue and actually going about doing

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<v Speaker 2>something about it. Like I actually loved that. That's good.

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<v Speaker 2>That's good.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that plays a very big part in this actually, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>how quickly she was to respond. So the police stopped

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<v Speaker 1>by her home and made their way up to her door.

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<v Speaker 1>They knocked, but got no response.

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<v Speaker 2>No answer. Now the house kiddos should be there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, exactly, the house was quiet. There was no sound

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<v Speaker 1>of Tina or her kids. Didn't seem like anyone was home,

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<v Speaker 1>so the police couldn't really do much. They assumed no

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<v Speaker 1>one was home, maybe she went out of state or something.

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<v Speaker 1>So they walked back down the driveway, got in their car,

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<v Speaker 1>and drove away without any information, which I mean rightfully,

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not like they can storm a house. They

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<v Speaker 1>don't have a warrant or anything. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, but yeah, you're like, hopefully everything's okay in there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and again they don't have suspicion, right, And I

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<v Speaker 1>think to do that just enter a home without a warrant,

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<v Speaker 1>they need suspicion of I'm not sure the exact term,

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<v Speaker 1>but they need suspicion without a reasonable doubt or something like.

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<v Speaker 2>That, like if a window was broken or the door

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<v Speaker 2>was kind of open, then they probably could, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, exactly, no search. But yeah, but it was a

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<v Speaker 1>sealed up house, just like any other down the street,

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<v Speaker 1>and nothing looked off exactly, so you can't just barge in.

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<v Speaker 1>So the next day would come around and a missing

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<v Speaker 1>person report would be filed, but not on Tina. Oddly enough,

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<v Speaker 1>it was forty one year old Sprang, who just so

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<v Speaker 1>happened to be Tina's neighbor and close friend. Now, the

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<v Speaker 1>last time anyone had heard from Stephanie, she was over

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<v Speaker 1>at Tina's house. Tina had been looking to move, ideally

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit closer to work, so Stephanie was there

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<v Speaker 1>helping her friend begin to process and organize and get

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<v Speaker 1>all the packagings together for starting to get things in boxes.

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<v Speaker 1>So she was there now. It was also noted that

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<v Speaker 1>this day, Tina's two kids, Sarah and Cody, never showed

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<v Speaker 1>up for school.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, what's going on here?

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<v Speaker 1>The police were just beginning to get some information together.

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<v Speaker 1>They were drawing these two connections between Tina to Stephanie

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<v Speaker 1>and the missing school right when they received a phone call.

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<v Speaker 1>It was Tina's manager from work again. Okay, well, apparently

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<v Speaker 1>she wasn't satisfied with the well welfare check the police

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<v Speaker 1>did on Tina yesterday. Though she was aware they couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>enter the home without the warr int or anything. She

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<v Speaker 1>decided she didn't need a warrant to go into the home.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true. Yeah, yeah, she's just like make check in

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<v Speaker 2>as kind of a friend, making sure she's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly now, it is unclear how she exactly got into

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<v Speaker 1>the home. I have some guesses on a later part here,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's kind of irrelevant. Regardless, she let herself into

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<v Speaker 1>the home and when she did, she got inside and

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<v Speaker 1>was greeted with a gruesome scene. Oh no, and quickly

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<v Speaker 1>dialed nine one one.

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<v Speaker 2>Seriously, so it's Stephanie's the neighbor, right, correct? Did she

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<v Speaker 2>do some shit? Or maybe Stephanie's in there too, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm listening.

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<v Speaker 1>Well. On the nine one one call, she informed the

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<v Speaker 1>police who she was and that she's there regarding Tina,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was the one who called the day before,

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<v Speaker 1>and she told them she went to her house to

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<v Speaker 1>check and inside she found quote blood everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh jeez.

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<v Speaker 1>The police rushed to the scene, found a blood bath,

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<v Speaker 1>but no people, no one alive, and no one dead.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy okay. I was also expecting there to be like

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<v Speaker 2>three or four bodies in there.

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<v Speaker 1>No no one huh. So by the door, there was

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<v Speaker 1>a pool of blood and there was drag marks found

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<v Speaker 1>heading towards the bedroom.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 1>And then inside the bathroom it looked like a scene

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<v Speaker 1>right out of a horror movie, as the tub had

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<v Speaker 1>blood spatters and smears all up the walls and along

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<v Speaker 1>the tub, and spray marks and flecks across the floor.

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<v Speaker 1>Even on the toilet right beside the bathtub had flex

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<v Speaker 1>of blood all around the bowl.

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<v Speaker 2>That makes my stomach just sink.

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<v Speaker 1>It was immediately clear to investigators what took place in

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<v Speaker 1>the bathtub dismemberment.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I don't know why I didn't go there,

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<v Speaker 2>but I had not gone there.

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<v Speaker 1>You did. Anytime there's a murder case and there's a

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<v Speaker 1>bloody bathtub, happens in the bloody bathtub.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm very aware now. Well, I was just, for

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<v Speaker 2>some reason, was in a happier mind frame than that.

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<v Speaker 1>You're a co host of a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and a barely body dismemberment is blowing my mind.

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<v Speaker 1>To day sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah. People will sometimes ask how do you cope

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<v Speaker 2>with having to do these stories? And I'm apparently just

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<v Speaker 2>an oblivion over here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you block it out, that's how.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, Unfortunately, this was a very real scene, not

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<v Speaker 1>sunshine and lollipops, and the bathtub was clearly used for dismounting.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Okay, So by the scene left the house, they

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<v Speaker 1>were not sure if anyone was going to be left

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<v Speaker 1>alive as a result, but they were able to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out a few things as far as how it could

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00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.480
<v Speaker 1>have played out. First, there was bags of groceries that

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00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:52.879
<v Speaker 1>were found in the kitchen, but they weren't put away,

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00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:55.639
<v Speaker 1>still just sitting there in the kitchen.

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00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.559
<v Speaker 2>Like someone had just gone shopping, like someone.

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<v Speaker 1>Had just come home from shopping. The receipt showed that

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00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:05.919
<v Speaker 1>the purchase was made approximately around noon, so this meant

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<v Speaker 1>Tina most likely would have come home shortly after doing

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<v Speaker 1>some shopping and brought the groceries in and before she

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<v Speaker 1>had a chance to put them away, was interrupted when

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<v Speaker 1>she had entered her home.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Then the bloodstains by the door also suggested someone was assaulted,

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<v Speaker 1>either as they entered the home or as they were

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<v Speaker 1>trying to leave.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>They also found the garage door. It wasn't quite working,

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00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.240
<v Speaker 1>it was left open partially, and even in the closed

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00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:39.639
<v Speaker 1>position it was open enough for a person to crawl

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00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:41.919
<v Speaker 1>under and enter the home if they wanted to, which

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00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:44.840
<v Speaker 1>is partially why part of the reason why, I'm thinking

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<v Speaker 1>that that could have been how the boss entered the

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00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:49.480
<v Speaker 1>home if necessary. Okay, but she might have had a

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00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:51.080
<v Speaker 1>key to it's kind of a relevant.

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<v Speaker 2>Information, or the back door was unlocked or something.

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00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:58.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this is how they presume the perpetrator would

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<v Speaker 1>have entered.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, in the garage there was also more blood and

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<v Speaker 1>Tina's truck was also missing, which meant whoever was responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for this must have taken the truck away from the.

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<v Speaker 2>Scene with the bodies.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm imagining most likely with the bodies.

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00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:14.759
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Now there was one final thing they found at the

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00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.799
<v Speaker 1>crime scene. It was a bag from Walmart. Now, a

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<v Speaker 1>bag in itself might not seem very conspicuous, but this

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00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:33.279
<v Speaker 1>one had things in it. Tarps. Oh okay, multiple tarps.

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<v Speaker 1>Investigators then turned to Walmart for a history of their purchases.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't have a receipt, but since they didn't have one,

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00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.799
<v Speaker 1>they thought, let's look it up in their registry and

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<v Speaker 1>go do that and they can see what's been purchased.

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<v Speaker 1>So they managed to find out which Walmart. It was

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<v Speaker 1>purchased at what items were purchased, and amongst just the tarps,

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<v Speaker 1>there were several other like Latex gloves for example, being

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00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:02.240
<v Speaker 1>on that list. And they also managed to find CCTV

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00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:03.600
<v Speaker 1>security camera footage.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, that's what I was wondering.

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00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:09.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they found footage of a Caucasian mail approximately

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00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:12.680
<v Speaker 1>in his thirties. He was very casual when he's walking

333
00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:16.039
<v Speaker 1>through the till, purchasing the items and just walking out

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00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:17.319
<v Speaker 1>of the store on his merried.

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00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.279
<v Speaker 2>Way, good god, with just like tarbs to go murder people.

336
00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:24.200
<v Speaker 1>That's he pretty much had a DIY murder scene kit. Yeah,

337
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:25.240
<v Speaker 1>that he just purchased for.

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00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.079
<v Speaker 2>More more and he's just yeah, just another day, just.

339
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.359
<v Speaker 1>Lotty dotty dot not a big deal whatsoever.

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00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:31.039
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

341
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:34.920
<v Speaker 1>And he left a bag behind at what in Walmart?

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00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:35.759
<v Speaker 2>No?

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00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.240
<v Speaker 1>No, sorry, oh at the crime scene of the crime. Okay,

344
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:39.640
<v Speaker 1>how do you like really?

345
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:44.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah? Actually, so he really wasn't too concerned about Well,

346
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.119
<v Speaker 2>clearly he wasn't. I was gonna say cleaning up, but

347
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:51.119
<v Speaker 2>clearly he fucking wasn't at all. There's like a shit

348
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:51.880
<v Speaker 2>show in there.

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00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, I just I don't know. I can see both

350
00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.480
<v Speaker 1>sides of this. Especially considering you just did something so

351
00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:01.839
<v Speaker 1>horrific your mind might be cloud and convoluted situations, it

352
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:03.759
<v Speaker 1>might be hard to keep track of everything. You leave

353
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.359
<v Speaker 1>something behind easy enough. Also in that sense, you're going

354
00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:08.720
<v Speaker 1>to commit something like this and you can't look after

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00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:11.440
<v Speaker 1>a bag yeah of stuff.

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00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm going to get away with it. Obviously it

357
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:17.240
<v Speaker 2>was planned right to some degree.

358
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.319
<v Speaker 1>So well, again, that's kind of where I want you

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00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:22.200
<v Speaker 1>guys to figure out on your own. See where you

360
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.279
<v Speaker 1>think it lays. If it was planned, if it was premeditated,

361
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:26.799
<v Speaker 1>if it wasn't. Where on that.

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00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Spectator, I mean, if someone's buying shit from Walmart like that,

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00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.599
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, okay, no, I'll just listen and then

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00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:33.319
<v Speaker 2>I'll decide.

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00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Well, it didn't take long for police to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to take that footage of a rather rather normal

367
00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:43.200
<v Speaker 1>looking dude and actually find a name and identify him.

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00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, his name was Matthew Hoffman and not the

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<v Speaker 1>infamous BMX legend Matt Hoffman that has like video games

370
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.279
<v Speaker 1>out there and stuff. Not that dude.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, because I was like, where I'm a recognizing

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<v Speaker 2>that name. That's not the same last name that she had, right?

373
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<v Speaker 1>No? No, uh, Tina Herman. Okay, yeah, so Hoffman Herman

374
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:07.799
<v Speaker 1>different close but different. So it was yeah, like I said,

375
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<v Speaker 1>Matthew Hoffman. Now, not a lot is known about his

376
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.720
<v Speaker 1>early bringing up, his childhood per se, but we are

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<v Speaker 1>going to touch on him and who he is a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit here. So we do know that by two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and one, at the age of nineteen, Matthew had

380
00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:24.880
<v Speaker 1>taken to crime to try and support himself. He was

381
00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.440
<v Speaker 1>living in Steamboat Springs, Colorado at the time, and he

382
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.640
<v Speaker 1>had just broken into a condo complex in hopes of

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00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:33.279
<v Speaker 1>finding some stuff to steal.

384
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he got what he.

385
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<v Speaker 1>Could, stealing anything that was worth something and was easy

386
00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:41.759
<v Speaker 1>to carry out Before he got out of there, he

387
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:46.640
<v Speaker 1>was quick, quiet and left no witnesses, but Matthew was

388
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.079
<v Speaker 1>still not quite happy with how it all played out.

389
00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.079
<v Speaker 1>He later said that he couldn't get the thought of

390
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.839
<v Speaker 1>any fingerprints that he could possibly have left behind at

391
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the scene out of his mind, and that he came

392
00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.160
<v Speaker 1>up with his own way to make sure that no

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00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:00.599
<v Speaker 1>one would f in them.

394
00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what on earth did he do?

395
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.640
<v Speaker 1>What do you think? What do you think he would

396
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.640
<v Speaker 1>do to ensure that he erases all his fingerprints? That

397
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.880
<v Speaker 1>could possibly be in an entire building.

398
00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, burned it down.

399
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.599
<v Speaker 1>He returned to the scene of the crime.

400
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:19.559
<v Speaker 2>That took me way too long to figure out.

401
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:21.200
<v Speaker 1>And set the complex on fire.

402
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Do you know where my mind went first? Which is

403
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:27.279
<v Speaker 2>so fucked what? As like he removed his fingerprints, That's

404
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:29.279
<v Speaker 2>where it went first, And I was like, no, that's

405
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:30.759
<v Speaker 2>not logical. What else could it be?

406
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:33.559
<v Speaker 1>Actually that that is logical as long as there's not

407
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.519
<v Speaker 1>fingerprints already on file. If he removes his, they can't

408
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:37.000
<v Speaker 1>match him.

409
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:41.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's pretty like that's affecting your way of living.

410
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:46.720
<v Speaker 1>Not necessarily you just have like burn scars or something

411
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:48.640
<v Speaker 1>like burn the shit and the tips of your fingers.

412
00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess it could work.

413
00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's actually not about it. That'd be much.

414
00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Easier than burning the place to the ground. Yes, it's

415
00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.640
<v Speaker 2>only affecting you, yeah, versus everyone in that apartment exactly.

416
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.799
<v Speaker 1>And I mean he did target just the condo he

417
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:12.480
<v Speaker 1>broke into specifically, but however, all sixteen residents met units

418
00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:14.799
<v Speaker 1>I guess within this complex were affected.

419
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:15.519
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

420
00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.480
<v Speaker 1>The whole thing ended up burning down, and he caused

421
00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.720
<v Speaker 1>over two million dollars worth of damages.

422
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

423
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So he actually wasn't caught, but he did eventually

424
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.640
<v Speaker 1>turn himself over to the police and confess his crimes.

425
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and he was.

426
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.519
<v Speaker 1>Sentenced to eight years in prison, but only served six

427
00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.200
<v Speaker 1>before he was released and moved to Howard, Ohio.

428
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:41.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, that seems I'm like, I mean, a lot

429
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.799
<v Speaker 2>of shit was went down there, which sucks, But like

430
00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:46.279
<v Speaker 2>the fact that he was remorseful and turned himself in

431
00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:49.519
<v Speaker 2>and then served like a decent amount of time.

432
00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I mean there is that there's some consolation

433
00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:56.000
<v Speaker 1>prizes there. Yeah. But now in twenty ten, Matthew had

434
00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.279
<v Speaker 1>just turned thirty and mainly kept to himself. A little

435
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.480
<v Speaker 1>bit more on him now. In twenty ten, he first

436
00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:06.240
<v Speaker 1>found work as a tree trimmer, but he was rather odd,

437
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:08.759
<v Speaker 1>and by the October of twenty ten he had lost

438
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:12.400
<v Speaker 1>his job and was collecting unemployment benefits. A lot of

439
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.799
<v Speaker 1>people really found him odd. In fact, neighbors often saw

440
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.119
<v Speaker 1>him out in his garden, lying in his hammock under

441
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.039
<v Speaker 1>the two trees he had in its property. But they

442
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:25.200
<v Speaker 1>also reported that Matthew resorted to shooting and eating squirrels

443
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:28.599
<v Speaker 1>in his yard. I mean, this could be because he

444
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:30.640
<v Speaker 1>just didn't want to go to the supermarket, or he

445
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:33.240
<v Speaker 1>couldn't afford anything at the store, or who knows what,

446
00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:36.319
<v Speaker 1>but either way, he was eating squirrels.

447
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Hum At first, it was like, what the fuck's aught

448
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.759
<v Speaker 2>about laying your hammock under your trees? That sounds amazing.

449
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:44.720
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not just laying in your hammock. It's an

450
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.160
<v Speaker 1>accumulation of other things, like laying in the hammock and

451
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:50.920
<v Speaker 1>looking up and shooting a squirrel and then eating inside

452
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:51.599
<v Speaker 1>and cooking it.

453
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:54.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's something. How did they know for sure that

454
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:59.000
<v Speaker 2>he was cooking it and eating eating it? They disassumed.

455
00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.200
<v Speaker 1>I guess when some one's shooting squirrels and taking him inside.

456
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Maybe he didn't like squirrels and he just wanted them dead.

457
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.599
<v Speaker 1>Maybe, but who knows.

458
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.680
<v Speaker 2>Most likely not just playing Devil's ad Forhgate, fair enough,

459
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.519
<v Speaker 2>I do that on a regular basis, so it's refreshing

460
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:16.480
<v Speaker 2>for you to play that part.

461
00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:19.720
<v Speaker 1>So something else did happen in October of that year

462
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.240
<v Speaker 1>that may have tipped the scales from Matthew, if you

463
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:23.960
<v Speaker 1>want to put it that way, And it was at

464
00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:26.680
<v Speaker 1>his girlfriend had left him. Now we're not exactly sure why,

465
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.039
<v Speaker 1>but there is a police report out there reportedly that

466
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.119
<v Speaker 1>she claimed Matthew was becoming violent and choked her during

467
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:34.079
<v Speaker 1>a domestic incident.

468
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

469
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.839
<v Speaker 1>So this left Matthew jobless, collecting benefits and needing squirrels

470
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:41.400
<v Speaker 1>all in isolation.

471
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:44.599
<v Speaker 2>Huh. I mean that sounds pretty rough. I'm not gonna lie.

472
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So now this brings us to November fifteenth, twenty ten,

473
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.119
<v Speaker 1>five days after Tina had first failed to show up

474
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.319
<v Speaker 1>for her scheduled workshift. The police remember that they had

475
00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.839
<v Speaker 1>actually met Matthew recently on the eleventh fact, when they

476
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:04.400
<v Speaker 1>were investigating Tina's home. He had actually pulled up in

477
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:06.079
<v Speaker 1>his vehicle outside the home.

478
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Really yep, okay.

479
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.720
<v Speaker 1>So as he drove up, deputies noticed him immediately and

480
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.720
<v Speaker 1>they asked why he was visiting and what looked like

481
00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:21.559
<v Speaker 1>a murder scene basically, and Matthew was rather quick in

482
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:24.039
<v Speaker 1>his feet. He told the officers right then and there

483
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:25.759
<v Speaker 1>that he was there to pick up his girlfriend from

484
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:29.680
<v Speaker 1>work just down the street. Matthew wasn't a suspect, but

485
00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:31.799
<v Speaker 1>the officers did question him and press him.

486
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:33.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, they.

487
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Asked whose girlfriend was and where she worked, and Matthew

488
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:39.799
<v Speaker 1>was quick again. He told the officers that she worked

489
00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:42.400
<v Speaker 1>at a nearby inn, and that he said that he

490
00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:45.400
<v Speaker 1>wasn't sure about her last name because they only recently

491
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.559
<v Speaker 1>just started dating, pretty new to each other still, but

492
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:51.480
<v Speaker 1>he could tell them her first name though, and her

493
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:52.519
<v Speaker 1>first name was Sarah.

494
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:56.559
<v Speaker 2>So that's so he's referring to the neighbor. Was that

495
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:57.240
<v Speaker 2>the neighbor's name.

496
00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.559
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, her neighbor was Stephanie.

497
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:02.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, sorry, I'm getting like h's and s's.

498
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:08.480
<v Speaker 1>And Sarah was. However, the daughter's name. Oh yeah, I

499
00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.039
<v Speaker 1>wasn't gonna say anything, but you kind of started linking it.

500
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:13.720
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you that it was the daughter again.

501
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:19.519
<v Speaker 1>Thirteen Okay, okay, yeah.

502
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:21.880
<v Speaker 2>This is just getting a little bit more interesting here.

503
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:28.720
<v Speaker 1>So, believing his story, the officers let him go, which

504
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean at that time, they have no suspicion of him.

505
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.519
<v Speaker 1>He's just some dude driving up by a crime scene.

506
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean obviously, like any nosy neighbor would probably be

507
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.240
<v Speaker 1>doing the same thing. You watch any movie Hollywood, they

508
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.480
<v Speaker 1>have like the whole neighborhood standing on the street staring

509
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and gawking, right.

510
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:44.799
<v Speaker 2>And if anything, it's almost kind of like, oh, this

511
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:50.119
<v Speaker 2>guy doesn't realize what happened here. But then someone like me,

512
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, that guy's freaking guilty. He's showing up to

513
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:55.039
<v Speaker 2>the crime the day after it happened.

514
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.759
<v Speaker 1>But you have hindsight. That's that's a big part of exactly right.

515
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:00.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so they did.

516
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.319
<v Speaker 1>Know something serious was going on. When they drew these

517
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:05.680
<v Speaker 1>lines between it, they realized he was at the scene.

518
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:05.960
<v Speaker 2>There.

519
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 1>He's now the one scene on CCTV footage purchasing the

520
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.960
<v Speaker 1>items found in the home. They also linked the vehicle

521
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:16.519
<v Speaker 1>they saw when he pulled up this crime scene to

522
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.039
<v Speaker 1>the one parked outside of Walmart when the purchase were made.

523
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:23.920
<v Speaker 1>So it is confirmed. Okay, so they got a warrant

524
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:27.160
<v Speaker 1>to search his home. When they got there, they were

525
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.839
<v Speaker 1>ready and they were prepared to find anything. When they

526
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:34.680
<v Speaker 1>entered the home, they burst in and they found something

527
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:35.640
<v Speaker 1>they weren't expecting.

528
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what on earth would they not be expecting? I

529
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:40.680
<v Speaker 2>feel like they'd almost be expecting anything.

530
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, let me tell you, would you expect this?

531
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.079
<v Speaker 2>Everyone is alive.

532
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:49.200
<v Speaker 1>When they burst open the door, they found leaves.

533
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:52.119
<v Speaker 2>What do you mean? Just like a shit ton of

534
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:52.960
<v Speaker 2>leaves everywhere.

535
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:57.440
<v Speaker 1>There were bags of leaves, loose leaves spread all over

536
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.680
<v Speaker 1>the floor like two feet deep, through throughout the house.

537
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, I definitely would not have been expecting that. Yeah,

538
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:04.680
<v Speaker 2>there's no way.

539
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:07.960
<v Speaker 1>It was leaves just everywhere, a shit ton of leaves.

540
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.920
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of nice though, No, I mean it was

541
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.359
<v Speaker 1>the end of autumn, so I mean leaves were in abundance,

542
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:16.039
<v Speaker 1>which completely makes sense. But why they're scattered in the home.

543
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Like raking them up and bringing them in their house

544
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:18.640
<v Speaker 2>for some decor.

545
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:23.920
<v Speaker 1>It's beyond decor, but he was. He was raking them

546
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:25.000
<v Speaker 1>up and bringing them into his home.

547
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Really Okay.

548
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:32.079
<v Speaker 1>So needless to say, though, it was a tactical nightmare

549
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:36.240
<v Speaker 1>for police trying to this. Oh gosh, they didn't know

550
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:39.200
<v Speaker 1>what was in those piles of leaves. Oh man, there

551
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.920
<v Speaker 1>could have been drug paraphernalia, say needles, for example. They

552
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.519
<v Speaker 1>were afraid that Matthew would actually set traps within the

553
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:47.799
<v Speaker 1>leaves or potentially the bodies.

554
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Of the victims.

555
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:49.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, laying in these.

556
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Where I had gone. Okay, that's terrifying.

557
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So they were ready for anything, but they were

558
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:57.480
<v Speaker 1>not ready for that.

559
00:27:57.799 --> 00:28:01.240
<v Speaker 2>No, No, you would not be. Wow. Okay.

560
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:04.839
<v Speaker 1>So when they entered the home, Matthew was sleeping on

561
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.720
<v Speaker 1>his couch in the living room, so they burst in

562
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.839
<v Speaker 1>they raid and they take him, and he doesn't really

563
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.720
<v Speaker 1>say anything. He just watches the police slowly make their

564
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:17.599
<v Speaker 1>way through his home and try and process what the

565
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:21.599
<v Speaker 1>fuck is going on in this house. Not even when

566
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.480
<v Speaker 1>they finally noticed a cabinet pushed up against a door

567
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 1>leading to the basement, did he say a word.

568
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, they.

569
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.039
<v Speaker 1>Noticed this cabinet, they moved it aside and it was

570
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:36.400
<v Speaker 1>blocking the access, and they opened the door and they

571
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.960
<v Speaker 1>slowly made their way into the basement.

572
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:41.559
<v Speaker 2>I like, still some serious hope that these this family's alive.

573
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:46.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, they did find thirteen year old Sarah Maynard downstairs

574
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.559
<v Speaker 1>in the basement, tied up to a bed made of leaves,

575
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:53.799
<v Speaker 1>with her hands completely bound in a plastic bag around

576
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.519
<v Speaker 1>her waist, almost like it was a diaper. Whoa Sarah

577
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:02.000
<v Speaker 1>when she saw the police went into absolute shock. She

578
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:04.960
<v Speaker 1>began panicking and rambling and telling the police that she

579
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:07.079
<v Speaker 1>was late for school and she had to get to school.

580
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.759
<v Speaker 2>Huh, well, she's just terrified of her fucking mind.

581
00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:17.079
<v Speaker 1>She also told police that Matthew had killed her dog

582
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:20.119
<v Speaker 1>and she was very worried about her dog, which is

583
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.440
<v Speaker 1>a portion I have so far left out.

584
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.680
<v Speaker 2>But he did oh Okay, I hate him. I mean

585
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:27.279
<v Speaker 2>he already did.

586
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.160
<v Speaker 1>He later admitted to killing the dog because it wouldn't

587
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:31.880
<v Speaker 1>stop barking.

588
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.839
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, because you're an asshole. Yeah, that's why I

589
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:36.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't stop barking.

590
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.359
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay. Oh so Sarah, though, did have suspicions of that,

591
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:44.680
<v Speaker 1>she didn't have any idea of what happened to her mother, brother,

592
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:49.319
<v Speaker 1>or Stephanie. According to Sarah, Matthew had explained that he

593
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.279
<v Speaker 1>was waiting for ransom money to come in from her parents,

594
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:54.920
<v Speaker 1>and that he was going to return her home. He'd

595
00:29:54.920 --> 00:29:57.440
<v Speaker 1>even promise that she'd be home by Christmas.

596
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Huh okay, so like she like he was basically like

597
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:03.799
<v Speaker 2>abusing her down there.

598
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:06.759
<v Speaker 1>We'll get into that a little bit, but.

599
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, yes wow.

600
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Matthew, however, wasn't quite as forthcoming to the police when

601
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:16.680
<v Speaker 1>they questioned Sarah. She told him everything, of course, right,

602
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:20.039
<v Speaker 1>but Matthew was lips tight.

603
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.799
<v Speaker 2>This guy is so interesting, how I just like im

604
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:25.720
<v Speaker 2>picturing this person that just is not affected by anything,

605
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:28.799
<v Speaker 2>and just like going through this the motions and the

606
00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:34.759
<v Speaker 2>steps and just like like a straight line. And maybe

607
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:36.359
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's very odd.

608
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.079
<v Speaker 1>Things might change in that opinion. Here this is a

609
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:40.680
<v Speaker 1>there's a little bit of different insight to this case,

610
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.440
<v Speaker 1>which is why again I want you to kind of

611
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:44.920
<v Speaker 1>draw your opinion on where and the spectrum it lies. Okay,

612
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:48.119
<v Speaker 1>So he didn't say a word during any of the interviews.

613
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:51.839
<v Speaker 1>Only once he pounded his chest with his fists and

614
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.599
<v Speaker 1>signaled as something breaking with his hands. He didn't even

615
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:57.599
<v Speaker 1>answer when the police asked him if that meant that

616
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:01.720
<v Speaker 1>his heart was broken. Just silence. But everything did change.

617
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:05.160
<v Speaker 1>A few days later, his tune changed and he began

618
00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:09.519
<v Speaker 1>to talk. Matthew went into another interview and asked if

619
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:12.319
<v Speaker 1>the camera was on, and the officers told him that

620
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:17.920
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't. Yeah, sure right, No, of course we're not

621
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:22.480
<v Speaker 1>recording here in this interrogation room. So he did believe

622
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:24.440
<v Speaker 1>them and he started talking.

623
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:26.759
<v Speaker 2>That's lying, though, I feel like you have to I

624
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:28.799
<v Speaker 2>mean maybe there was a few years ago, but like

625
00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:32.519
<v Speaker 2>you have to state if something is recording like that.

626
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.519
<v Speaker 1>Do you not no, because I mean you're still talking

627
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.200
<v Speaker 1>to police, which is like witness. I don't think so.

628
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:39.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I'd have to look into it.

629
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:43.039
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you would have to be like full disclosure,

630
00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:43.799
<v Speaker 2>but I don't know.

631
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.799
<v Speaker 1>I don't know it's not like this is a you're

632
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:50.119
<v Speaker 1>calling into a phone line or something. This call may

633
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:52.400
<v Speaker 1>be recorded for a company policies.

634
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Sure tell us, and it's recorded like this is obviously

635
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:56.000
<v Speaker 2>recorded by YEA.

636
00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:00.240
<v Speaker 1>So he started talking, and he said that he had

637
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:03.319
<v Speaker 1>the same nightmare for a second time and he needed

638
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:05.880
<v Speaker 1>to talk about it. He said that in his dream,

639
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.920
<v Speaker 1>he'd been in a food processing plant and when he'd

640
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:11.599
<v Speaker 1>opened the bag in front of him, it was filled

641
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:15.480
<v Speaker 1>with human body parts. He took that to mean that

642
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:17.960
<v Speaker 1>he had to come clean, so he decided to tell

643
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:24.039
<v Speaker 1>the police what he'd done. He did, however, have one condition.

644
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:27.720
<v Speaker 1>He would tell the police where to find the bodies

645
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.599
<v Speaker 1>if they agreed to allow him to escape.

646
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, but this, I'm okay, this isn't good.

647
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, this wasn't going to be a real escape though.

648
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, his plan was only a cover up of

649
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:44.680
<v Speaker 1>a falsified escape. Here. He was going to pretend to

650
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:48.799
<v Speaker 1>run away so that the police could shoot and kill him.

651
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:50.519
<v Speaker 2>That's what he wanted, That's what he want.

652
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:52.279
<v Speaker 1>He's like, just just let me run away and then

653
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.720
<v Speaker 1>you can be like, oh no, he's getting away, shoot

654
00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:56.079
<v Speaker 1>him and then you can kill me.

655
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:59.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, so that's almost kind of like a suicide planet.

656
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:04.519
<v Speaker 1>It is only after that his lawyer would release the

657
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.200
<v Speaker 1>information on where the bodies would be found. That's what

658
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:07.680
<v Speaker 1>he wanted.

659
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:09.039
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

660
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:11.480
<v Speaker 1>The police, of course didn't agree. They're not going to

661
00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:16.640
<v Speaker 1>just kill him at his wish, right, Yeah, and Matthew

662
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 1>stopped talking again.

663
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Frag but the lawyer knows where the bodies are.

664
00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if the lawyer does yet or what.

665
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:24.240
<v Speaker 2>He was going to tell him.

666
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but it would be only two days later that

667
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:32.240
<v Speaker 1>he changed his mind all over again. Matthew told investigators

668
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:35.079
<v Speaker 1>where to find the bodies under the condition that the

669
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:39.480
<v Speaker 1>prosecution wouldn't press for the death penalty.

670
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay. I just have like this terrible thought though, that

671
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:47.480
<v Speaker 2>like he was using food grinder of sorts without people knowing.

672
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:51.960
<v Speaker 2>And now what's been going on for those past four

673
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:52.880
<v Speaker 2>days or whatever.

674
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:54.400
<v Speaker 1>There's no cannibalism.

675
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:57.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, No, you're good, Okay, Okay, Well I guess I

676
00:33:57.559 --> 00:33:59.839
<v Speaker 2>mean I'm not doing the case. I'm the only one that.

677
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:03.319
<v Speaker 1>Exactly that'd be you. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I do find

678
00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:08.280
<v Speaker 1>this super interesting though, because Matthew a started with I

679
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:13.599
<v Speaker 1>will tell you where the bodies are if you kill me. Basically, Oh,

680
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:15.719
<v Speaker 1>and now he's like, I'll tell you where the bodies

681
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:17.480
<v Speaker 1>are if you don't kill me.

682
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.960
<v Speaker 2>That's very interesting. He's a lot going on in his head.

683
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:23.199
<v Speaker 1>He has a lot going on in his head.

684
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

685
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:29.000
<v Speaker 1>So he would then write a four page confession detailing

686
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:31.880
<v Speaker 1>his crimes, but he left out one very important part.

687
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:36.239
<v Speaker 1>According to Matthew, he'd only ever been nice to Sarah.

688
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.559
<v Speaker 1>He apparently had gave her a copy of Treasure Island.

689
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:42.960
<v Speaker 1>They'd watch movies together, he'd cook burgers for her, and

690
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:48.519
<v Speaker 1>he'd even fall asleep with her in his arms. His

691
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:53.400
<v Speaker 1>exact words are quote, I would not have hurt her.

692
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:56.320
<v Speaker 1>I could not hurt her. I planned on giving her

693
00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:58.639
<v Speaker 1>more and more freedom until she ran away.

694
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:00.480
<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

695
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.559
<v Speaker 1>Sarah, however, told a very different story. According to her,

696
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.119
<v Speaker 1>in the four days that Matthew had had tied her

697
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.480
<v Speaker 1>up in the basement, he'd repeatedly sexually assaulted her.

698
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:13.199
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

699
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:16.559
<v Speaker 1>This claim was backed up by the physical evidence and

700
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:19.679
<v Speaker 1>evaluation on Sarah the abuse on her body.

701
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

702
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:23.840
<v Speaker 1>So a charge of rape was added to nine other

703
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:25.920
<v Speaker 1>accounts that Matthew was facing.

704
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:30.280
<v Speaker 2>What the actual hell, Oh my gosh, I'm like, is

705
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:33.599
<v Speaker 2>he just like delusional? And like, what's happening in his world?

706
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Or is he just stretching the truth to make himself

707
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.960
<v Speaker 2>seem better and not like a complete ass or more

708
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:41.920
<v Speaker 2>than an ass and disgusting monster.

709
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:46.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, luckily, Matthew, like I said, did write a four

710
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:46.880
<v Speaker 1>page confession.

711
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:48.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yes he did, so we do.

712
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Have accounts for his side of the story, and by

713
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.559
<v Speaker 1>all accounts, it sounds like this is the truth. I'm

714
00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:58.199
<v Speaker 1>not trying to sit here and say, oh, it's just

715
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.119
<v Speaker 1>his side of the story. No, I think this is

716
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:02.880
<v Speaker 1>is most likely how it played out by the sounds

717
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 1>of it.

718
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

719
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.039
<v Speaker 1>So, after Matthew was left jobless and single, he went

720
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:09.199
<v Speaker 1>back to his old ways.

721
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Theft right.

722
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:15.000
<v Speaker 1>According to Matthew, he picked a house at random. That

723
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.920
<v Speaker 1>one is up for debate. He found one in the

724
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:21.320
<v Speaker 1>neighborhood that didn't have any other houses too close. In fact,

725
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:23.199
<v Speaker 1>this one was kind of on a block on its own,

726
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:27.800
<v Speaker 1>with kind of forested area around it, so he waited.

727
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:31.159
<v Speaker 1>He camped in the surrounding bushes near the home, sleeping

728
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:32.960
<v Speaker 1>only in his sleeping bag to try and fight off

729
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.320
<v Speaker 1>the cold, and finally, after a time period that isn't

730
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:39.800
<v Speaker 1>quite clear, assumed a few days I've heard three days,

731
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 1>but again not confirmed, but it was a few days

732
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:50.480
<v Speaker 1>before he made his move. Matthew approached the home now

733
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 1>that it seemed to be empty. He tried the front door,

734
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:54.519
<v Speaker 1>but it was locked, and from there he went around

735
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.119
<v Speaker 1>to the back and found the partially open garage door,

736
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.920
<v Speaker 1>and he slid inside. All he had to do now

737
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:04.800
<v Speaker 1>was look for anything worth stealing, grab it, and be

738
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.599
<v Speaker 1>on his way. He was looking for the same things

739
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:09.760
<v Speaker 1>as he did back in two thousand and one. He

740
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:12.599
<v Speaker 1>wanted something that was light, easy to carry, like money

741
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.559
<v Speaker 1>or jewelry, but he had a hard time finding anything

742
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.920
<v Speaker 1>worthwhile in this house. He searched the home for about

743
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.679
<v Speaker 1>an hour when suddenly he heard the sound of a

744
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:24.440
<v Speaker 1>car pulling up into the driveway.

745
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, So.

746
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.760
<v Speaker 1>He had a choice to make. He could either sneak

747
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:36.400
<v Speaker 1>out or he could hide. He knew that if he

748
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.679
<v Speaker 1>tried to sneak out, he probably was going to get caught,

749
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:43.920
<v Speaker 1>so he chose to hide. He ran into a bedroom,

750
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:47.760
<v Speaker 1>closed the door and waited. Ideally, whoever it was would

751
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:50.119
<v Speaker 1>come back and pick something up before heading out again.

752
00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:56.119
<v Speaker 1>So he sat silently waiting, But then the bedroom door

753
00:37:56.199 --> 00:38:02.199
<v Speaker 1>started to open. In walked Tina and the whole situated

754
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:08.039
<v Speaker 1>situation escalated incredibly quickly. Matthew came prepared to defend himself

755
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:12.719
<v Speaker 1>or to attack whichever situation he found himself in. He

756
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:16.039
<v Speaker 1>had a hunting knife and a sap, which a sap

757
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:19.119
<v Speaker 1>is a small little leather pouch filled with like metal bearings,

758
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.000
<v Speaker 1>so think like a leather coin pouch. Basically, it was

759
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:28.239
<v Speaker 1>like hit and okay, bludgeoning. Yeah, So he ordered Tina

760
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.559
<v Speaker 1>to lie in the bed, bearing both the weapons and

761
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.840
<v Speaker 1>fearing for her life. Tina listened. So as Tina laid

762
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:37.519
<v Speaker 1>face down the bed, Matthew hit her across the back

763
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:40.199
<v Speaker 1>of the head with the sap. His intent was to

764
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:42.800
<v Speaker 1>knock her out, but all he ended up doing was

765
00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:47.079
<v Speaker 1>injuring her. Realizing that she was still conscious, Matthew hit

766
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.719
<v Speaker 1>Tina across the head again, but then he heard the

767
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:54.519
<v Speaker 1>bedroom door swing open behind him. Oh no, He turned

768
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:57.440
<v Speaker 1>around a look, and this time he saw forty one

769
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:01.599
<v Speaker 1>year old Stephanie Sprang, Tina's neighbor and best friend. Okay,

770
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.800
<v Speaker 1>the pair of them locked eyes as Matthew stood over Tina,

771
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.400
<v Speaker 1>who was still conscious and laying in the bed. Stephanie

772
00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:11.920
<v Speaker 1>panicked and ran, but Matthew didn't want either of the

773
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>women to escape or call for help, so with his

774
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:17.480
<v Speaker 1>knife in the other hand, he quickly stabbed Tina in

775
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.760
<v Speaker 1>the back twice. Oh geez, before he took off after

776
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Stephanie through the house.

777
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Ohly shit.

778
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.280
<v Speaker 1>He managed to catch up to her before she got

779
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:29.039
<v Speaker 1>to the front door, and he stabbed her twice in

780
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:32.440
<v Speaker 1>the chest. He then ran back to the first bedroom,

781
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:37.360
<v Speaker 1>stabbed Tina another couple of times, and realized they were

782
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:37.920
<v Speaker 1>both dead.

783
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:38.239
<v Speaker 2>Well.

784
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I'm not too sure where it is. I

785
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 1>avoided researching this part because I love dogs, but somewhere

786
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and around here he would have went after the dog

787
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:52.639
<v Speaker 1>with a knife as well.

788
00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:56.320
<v Speaker 2>The dog was barking at this guy. Yes, Okay, first

789
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of all, so I'm assuming he was like camped out,

790
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of like figure out their schedules, right, So he

791
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:04.480
<v Speaker 2>was probably really thinking like no one was going to

792
00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:05.360
<v Speaker 2>be home at that time.

793
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:07.440
<v Speaker 1>That's what he was aiming for. Definitely that.

794
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this whole thing is freaking terrifying. But it is

795
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:13.000
<v Speaker 2>so unbelievably terrifying to think that someone is just like

796
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:17.199
<v Speaker 2>camping out behind your house, like just watching you.

797
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

798
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:21.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I don't know, like that just makes me feel

799
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:23.559
<v Speaker 2>like shit.

800
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:24.199
<v Speaker 1>Gross.

801
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, like, go check your backyards, but also don't

802
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:28.920
<v Speaker 2>because it's scary.

803
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Go do it, but don't lock your doors.

804
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Wow.

805
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, according to Matthew, killing anyone was never part

806
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:42.639
<v Speaker 1>of the plan, and the fact that he now just

807
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.719
<v Speaker 1>killed two women put him into a daze. He said,

808
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:48.039
<v Speaker 1>he kept walking around the house trying to figure out

809
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:51.320
<v Speaker 1>what to do, and then he came out with an idea.

810
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:55.679
<v Speaker 1>He took their bodies to the bathroom placed them in

811
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:56.119
<v Speaker 1>the tub.

812
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

813
00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.960
<v Speaker 1>He collected bins from around the house and started dismembering

814
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:02.400
<v Speaker 1>the bodies into pieces.

815
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I I am sorry, but that's really fucked up.

816
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:11.000
<v Speaker 1>He put their body parts into a bag and started

817
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.440
<v Speaker 1>loading them into Tina's truck, which was now in the garage.

818
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.639
<v Speaker 1>But during one of these trips, he heard the front

819
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:22.480
<v Speaker 1>door to the house open up the sun. He was

820
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.079
<v Speaker 1>not faced with two women this time, but Tina's two.

821
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Children, both kids.

822
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:30.320
<v Speaker 1>They had both just come home from school and walked

823
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:31.320
<v Speaker 1>in the front door.

824
00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:34.320
<v Speaker 2>And saw Matthew and blood.

825
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:40.039
<v Speaker 1>Blood. Sarah bolted and managed to make it to her room,

826
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:44.599
<v Speaker 1>but Cody wasn't so lucky. Matthew swung his knife and

827
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:48.440
<v Speaker 1>stabbed Cody in the chest, killing him almost right away,

828
00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:51.199
<v Speaker 1>but Matthew didn't stick around to check and see how

829
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.239
<v Speaker 1>long he was alive for he was worried that Sarah

830
00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:56.159
<v Speaker 1>went to a room and was calling the police with

831
00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:59.280
<v Speaker 1>a phone in there, so he came in, bursting and

832
00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:02.599
<v Speaker 1>found her there. She wasn't calling for help, and Matthew

833
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:06.800
<v Speaker 1>later said that he saw her he couldn't kill her. Instead,

834
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:09.360
<v Speaker 1>he ripped the cord from an electrical fan and tried

835
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:13.079
<v Speaker 1>to tie tie Sarah up. He then would drag her

836
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.320
<v Speaker 1>to the kitchen while he got back to work taking

837
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.320
<v Speaker 1>out the rest of the bins, dismembering his victims, including

838
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:22.159
<v Speaker 1>eleven year old Cody.

839
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh brutal. Why could he not kill Sarah though? Do

840
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:31.239
<v Speaker 2>we talk about that later or just like he just.

841
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:32.760
<v Speaker 1>All he said is that he couldn't.

842
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:34.239
<v Speaker 2>He couldn't. Huh.

843
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Matthew then came back and bundled Sarah up into the truck,

844
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:41.480
<v Speaker 1>and Sarah had no idea that she was now within

845
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:45.480
<v Speaker 1>a vehicle that contained her completely dismembered family and neighbor

846
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:51.599
<v Speaker 1>shoved inside of bins. All she did know was a

847
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:53.679
<v Speaker 1>man was taking her somewhere and there was nothing she

848
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:54.440
<v Speaker 1>could do about it.

849
00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:57.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is a lot, it is this is a lot.

850
00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:01.239
<v Speaker 2>This is very very disturb and I already have my

851
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:02.199
<v Speaker 2>answer in my head.

852
00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:07.000
<v Speaker 1>So Matthew ended up taking her to his home, led

853
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.639
<v Speaker 1>her to the basement, tied her up to the bed

854
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:12.320
<v Speaker 1>before getting back to his work. He knew he had

855
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:14.559
<v Speaker 1>to get rid of the bodies. He thought about driving

856
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:16.880
<v Speaker 1>his truck to the lake and swimming it and swimming

857
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:19.159
<v Speaker 1>ashore from there. So driving it right into the water,

858
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:21.960
<v Speaker 1>letting it set swing your shore. Yeah, but it was

859
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.760
<v Speaker 1>November and he was afraid that he wouldn't be able

860
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:27.360
<v Speaker 1>to swim because of the cold. So he thought a

861
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:29.760
<v Speaker 1>bit more and he figured out a place that he

862
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:33.000
<v Speaker 1>thought would be perfect. He knew a sixty foot tree

863
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:37.880
<v Speaker 1>in Cocosing Wildlife Area, and he knew this tree just

864
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:41.280
<v Speaker 1>so happened to be hollow. So he hauled bags body

865
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:44.639
<v Speaker 1>parts over several different trips and used his climbing equipment

866
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:47.000
<v Speaker 1>from previous jobs that he had as a tree turmer

867
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:49.679
<v Speaker 1>to haul him up the tree and dump them inside

868
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:53.280
<v Speaker 1>the tree. He did this using multiple different vehicles to

869
00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:57.000
<v Speaker 1>attempt to cover his tracks. He used his own truck, Tina's,

870
00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:00.880
<v Speaker 1>he used Stephanie's jeep. He even took his bike once

871
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:02.719
<v Speaker 1>and walked back and forth twice.

872
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Holy frig Okay, so he's like really thinking this part

873
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:10.519
<v Speaker 2>through now, I guess he is.

874
00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:14.320
<v Speaker 1>So with the bodies hidden, Matthew again reverted back to

875
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:18.880
<v Speaker 1>his old ways. The next evening, he went back to

876
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:22.719
<v Speaker 1>Tina's house ready to burn it to the ground. Oh okay,

877
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:25.719
<v Speaker 1>but that's when he discovered the police had already found

878
00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:26.199
<v Speaker 1>the scene.

879
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.639
<v Speaker 2>As he was pulling, he wasn't going to be able

880
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.400
<v Speaker 2>to yep.

881
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:31.960
<v Speaker 1>So when he had talked to police, he was there

882
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:32.960
<v Speaker 1>to burn the house down.

883
00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:37.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So he realized that he left shit there that

884
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:41.559
<v Speaker 2>needed to be destroyed. Yeah, the bag or why did

885
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:42.480
<v Speaker 2>he have that bag?

886
00:44:43.719 --> 00:44:47.079
<v Speaker 1>He would have in the process of dismembering the bodies

887
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:50.400
<v Speaker 1>gone to Walmart to get some supplies.

888
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:54.559
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. So he literally went to Walmart after yes,

889
00:44:54.760 --> 00:45:00.440
<v Speaker 2>and was just like calm as a cucumber. Yes, that's disturbing, Yes,

890
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:01.559
<v Speaker 2>really disturbing.

891
00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:08.519
<v Speaker 1>Yes. So January of twenty eleven, Matthew would have his trial.

892
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:14.000
<v Speaker 1>He pled guilty to all ten charges, three accounts of kidnapping, kidnapping,

893
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.599
<v Speaker 1>for abducting the three victims, three accounts of abuse of

894
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:20.400
<v Speaker 1>a corpse, for dismembering the bodies of victims and scattering

895
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:25.280
<v Speaker 1>the remains, and one account of sexual assault regarding Sarah.

896
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:29.639
<v Speaker 1>He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility

897
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:30.239
<v Speaker 1>of parole.

898
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Right, and that's.

899
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:36.159
<v Speaker 1>When the press had dubbed the leaf killer the leaf killer.

900
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.920
<v Speaker 1>He was the leaf killer and he will remain in

901
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:45.199
<v Speaker 1>prison till he dies. Okay, So one final little note here.

902
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Sarah did move in with her father, Larry, who said

903
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:51.159
<v Speaker 1>that she went back to school and worked very closely

904
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:52.800
<v Speaker 1>with therapists to deal with this tragedy.

905
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, that is some trauma.

906
00:45:56.599 --> 00:46:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Larry also said that regarding Sarah, quote, she is strong

907
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.320
<v Speaker 1>and has gotten through this with her faith in God

908
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:05.320
<v Speaker 1>and the love of her family.

909
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:10.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Okay, that's good. That, oh that she's

910
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:13.079
<v Speaker 2>like doing well. But gosh, just what she's having to

911
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:13.599
<v Speaker 2>deal with.

912
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:18.400
<v Speaker 1>I imagine that she might be doing well, but I don't

913
00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:21.159
<v Speaker 1>think I think this is going to affect her for.

914
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh, of course, for her entire life.

915
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:28.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, But the conversation I do want to have

916
00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:32.760
<v Speaker 1>is do you think he's just a cold blooded murderer?

917
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you think it's something that just got out of

918
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:38.840
<v Speaker 1>hand an accident and he just covered his tracks. What

919
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:41.000
<v Speaker 1>what do you think? You said? You have your answer?

920
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, well I do. Okay, So I think

921
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:49.639
<v Speaker 2>that he's a terrible person. I think that he's a

922
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:53.760
<v Speaker 2>criminal for sure, Like he definitely is a criminal. But

923
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:59.920
<v Speaker 2>I do I don't know, because it seems so weird

924
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:02.440
<v Speaker 2>to me, Okay, Like I'm still processing. It seems very

925
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:05.159
<v Speaker 2>weird to me that he saved or he didn't do

926
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:06.840
<v Speaker 2>this to Sarah, but then he did it to the

927
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.599
<v Speaker 2>other three. So could he not have easily just have

928
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:15.119
<v Speaker 2>not killed all of them? You know? So that's why

929
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:17.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of like, well, did he intend to murder someone?

930
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Like he came prepared with some series weapons and stuff.

931
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:23.280
<v Speaker 1>He had a hunting knife in his hand. Yeah, right,

932
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:27.400
<v Speaker 1>And when he did have Tina, she was on the

933
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:30.639
<v Speaker 1>bed and he just began assaulting her with that SAP

934
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.239
<v Speaker 1>the weapon. Right, if he's going to ensure this doesn't

935
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:37.920
<v Speaker 1>happen or you know, doesn't no one squeals or something,

936
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:42.360
<v Speaker 1>He's not gonna be assaulting her. He's gonna tire up

937
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:43.800
<v Speaker 1>make sure she can't see shit.

938
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, because even as you were kind of presenting the story.

939
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:51.079
<v Speaker 2>I was like, there's opportunities for him to like get away, Yes,

940
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:53.400
<v Speaker 2>in that in that scenario there.

941
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:57.079
<v Speaker 1>In an hour in someone's home. That's a long time.

942
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:01.320
<v Speaker 2>And you did say that he potentially was abusive to

943
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:02.960
<v Speaker 2>his girlfriend.

944
00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Potentially, yes, So.

945
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, you know, maybe he was going to

946
00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:11.559
<v Speaker 2>be escalating to be doing murders and this is this

947
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:14.039
<v Speaker 2>is the time the one maybe.

948
00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:18.440
<v Speaker 1>I I mean, clearly there's definitely some of my undiagnosed

949
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:23.199
<v Speaker 1>mental disorders or something going on there, because he's is

950
00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:27.800
<v Speaker 1>not quite there now. There there was reports after searching

951
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:29.719
<v Speaker 1>his home with the search warrent and everything, police did

952
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:34.960
<v Speaker 1>find his freezer which apparently contained squirrels and popsicles. Wow,

953
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:38.719
<v Speaker 1>so that was his diet apparently. And there is also

954
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:43.039
<v Speaker 1>a lot of allegations around this case regarding him being

955
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:49.480
<v Speaker 1>very what's the best way to say, sexualizing trees.

956
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that.

957
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:55.960
<v Speaker 1>The leaves, for example, in his home, the tree that

958
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:59.000
<v Speaker 1>he hid the remains in apparently was a tree that

959
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:04.119
<v Speaker 1>he was very fond of. I mean, he climbed it often,

960
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:07.400
<v Speaker 1>most likely, especially if he knew all the way up

961
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.599
<v Speaker 1>and it was hollow in there in the specific tree.

962
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:13.639
<v Speaker 1>So there is allegations of sexualizing trees.

963
00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:15.239
<v Speaker 2>Interesting, I never heard of that.

964
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean to each the row, and I'm not going

965
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:21.880
<v Speaker 1>to knock someone for something like that, right, but yeah,

966
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:23.679
<v Speaker 1>I will knock you if you go ahead and like

967
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:24.559
<v Speaker 1>start murdering people.

968
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Not illegal to sexualize trees, yeah, I mean lots of

969
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:33.480
<v Speaker 2>people like wood. Right, Holy shit, you went there. Oh

970
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.000
<v Speaker 2>my gosh. But yeah, to say he's like a cold

971
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:39.000
<v Speaker 2>blooded murder my gosh.

972
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:43.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean he is definitely a cold blooded murderer for sure, yes,

973
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:51.639
<v Speaker 1>But is he intentionally a cold blooded murderer? Is the question?

974
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Man? Okay, okay, I'm going to say.

975
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.079
<v Speaker 1>No, no, he's not.

976
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what I'm going with I think for all,

977
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:06.719
<v Speaker 2>But that just destroys me to say that.

978
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:08.840
<v Speaker 1>So then here's my question that I want to beg

979
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.360
<v Speaker 1>you with this one. What was he going to do

980
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:13.280
<v Speaker 1>with Sarah?

981
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I know that's like there's just so, but like you said,

982
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:21.119
<v Speaker 2>so he has some mental health stuff that he's dealing with.

983
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Maybe he just like saw her and was just like

984
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:28.039
<v Speaker 2>had some sort of like connection, was like, oh my gosh,

985
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:31.039
<v Speaker 2>like this this this girl's like an angel or whatever,

986
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:32.119
<v Speaker 2>like I need to save her.

987
00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:37.280
<v Speaker 1>He sexually abused her. Oh fuck, he was charged with

988
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:38.199
<v Speaker 1>with sexual abuse.

989
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, I don't know. Okay, no this, Oh okay,

990
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:43.760
<v Speaker 2>you are asking.

991
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:46.079
<v Speaker 1>Me, I'm asking you impossible questions.

992
00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:49.559
<v Speaker 2>Possible questions. This guy is literally like the biggest douce

993
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:53.039
<v Speaker 2>crew ever. Like he's discussing he's a nasty motherfucker.

994
00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Because I do think he's not intentionally a cold blooded killer,

995
00:50:57.159 --> 00:50:59.239
<v Speaker 1>but I think he got way in over his head

996
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:03.440
<v Speaker 1>and he's just going to roll with those punches, which

997
00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:06.239
<v Speaker 1>turns him into one after the fact.

998
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, the whole Sarah thing, Well, this would be easier

999
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:12.360
<v Speaker 2>to answer kind of if he had murdered her as well.

1000
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.679
<v Speaker 2>But the fact that he kept her is just continuing

1001
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:16.199
<v Speaker 2>the abuse.

1002
00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Is it is horrible because put it this way, if

1003
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.000
<v Speaker 1>he keeps her in his basement, there's one of two

1004
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:23.920
<v Speaker 1>things that's going to happen here. Either he continues to

1005
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:26.679
<v Speaker 1>keep her and continues to abuse her, or he's going

1006
00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:29.599
<v Speaker 1>to continue to abuse her and eventually she will die

1007
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:32.079
<v Speaker 1>as a result. Yeah, those are the two options.

1008
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:34.199
<v Speaker 2>But then didn't he say that she was going to

1009
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:36.599
<v Speaker 2>let her go at some point? Well that's what he said,

1010
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:37.280
<v Speaker 2>he claimed.

1011
00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Now, I'm not not not to throw the idea

1012
00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:44.440
<v Speaker 1>out the window that she could escape, that's definitely a possibility.

1013
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:47.159
<v Speaker 1>But before that happens, those are the only two things

1014
00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:49.320
<v Speaker 1>that are going to occur. Is either she's going to

1015
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:53.280
<v Speaker 1>continue being abused or continue being abused until he kills

1016
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:56.880
<v Speaker 1>her or she dies as a result. Yeah, so he

1017
00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:00.599
<v Speaker 1>is letting this happen, letting this continuing continue to happen,

1018
00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:05.239
<v Speaker 1>knowingly that there makes him a cold blooded criminal murderer

1019
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:05.920
<v Speaker 1>in my opinion.

1020
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like he I don't think if he didn't get caught,

1021
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't think Sarah would have gotten out of that

1022
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:17.239
<v Speaker 2>situation alive. Right, So then, how remorseful was he for

1023
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:19.519
<v Speaker 2>murdering the other three and when he was literally going

1024
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.719
<v Speaker 2>to be doing that to Sarah. Yeah, like he did

1025
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:23.440
<v Speaker 2>turn into a cold blooded murderer.

1026
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think with the other three, Yeah, you can

1027
00:52:26.039 --> 00:52:28.440
<v Speaker 1>make the argument of he panicked, he snapped, and he

1028
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.280
<v Speaker 1>didn't know what to do, and he dismembered and hit them,

1029
00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:32.760
<v Speaker 1>and sure, okay, not that it's okay to do that,

1030
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.280
<v Speaker 1>it's still fucking horrific.

1031
00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:35.440
<v Speaker 2>He went next level.

1032
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:40.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, However, the whole idea of snapping or not knowing

1033
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.920
<v Speaker 1>or going into a haze as he put it. Sure,

1034
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.079
<v Speaker 1>you can make that argument for three. You can no

1035
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:48.199
<v Speaker 1>longer make that argument for Sarah because now you have

1036
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:53.639
<v Speaker 1>four days of sitting on this yeah and continuing Yeah,

1037
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:57.519
<v Speaker 1>that's that's the part that makes it worse.

1038
00:52:57.559 --> 00:52:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I'm glad that he is in jail

1039
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:01.760
<v Speaker 2>and that he's going to be in there for the

1040
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:07.880
<v Speaker 2>rest of his life, because I mean he's already I've

1041
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:10.599
<v Speaker 2>been in and out of jail previously to this, right,

1042
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:15.199
<v Speaker 2>and now his crime has just like escalated to the nines.

1043
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:18.039
<v Speaker 2>So that is kind of where he needs to be.

1044
00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:21.119
<v Speaker 1>So what happens if he got away with us, if

1045
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:23.320
<v Speaker 1>he did have Sarah still, do you think he would

1046
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:25.800
<v Speaker 1>have done it again to someone else? Yep, I think

1047
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:27.599
<v Speaker 1>he would have. Yeah, if he got to burn the

1048
00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:29.960
<v Speaker 1>house down, then they never did find the Walmart bag

1049
00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:32.599
<v Speaker 1>and never got to put anything together, I think he

1050
00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:33.159
<v Speaker 1>would have done it.

1051
00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:36.039
<v Speaker 2>Again, Oh yeah, because I think that this was just

1052
00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:38.880
<v Speaker 2>like almost I don't want to say natural, but like

1053
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:41.679
<v Speaker 2>a progression of his like his criminal.

1054
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Activity, because that's what he did. He broke into a

1055
00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:49.239
<v Speaker 1>place looking for things, left, burned it down. He tried

1056
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:51.639
<v Speaker 1>to do the exact same thing here, only this time

1057
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.159
<v Speaker 1>the people came home, and he would have killed them,

1058
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:58.159
<v Speaker 1>taken one of them and gotten away with it, and

1059
00:53:58.199 --> 00:53:59.639
<v Speaker 1>he would have liked it, and he would have done

1060
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:00.000
<v Speaker 1>it again.

1061
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, it would have just become like almost a

1062
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:07.880
<v Speaker 2>new fetish or obsession for him.

1063
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:13.719
<v Speaker 1>Yep, which is where I think it's just escalating. It's escalating.

1064
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:19.079
<v Speaker 1>He's letting it escalate. He's enjoying the escalation. He's he's

1065
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:22.119
<v Speaker 1>a cold blooded killer in my opinion. Yeah, we just

1066
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:23.800
<v Speaker 1>so happened to be just at the start of it

1067
00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:24.519
<v Speaker 1>that he was caught.

1068
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:30.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Brutal. Wow, that is That is a brutal case

1069
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:32.599
<v Speaker 2>and one that I have never heard.

1070
00:54:33.079 --> 00:54:36.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I've been researching that one for a few

1071
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:37.079
<v Speaker 1>weeks now.

1072
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:41.239
<v Speaker 2>It kind of seems like it was a dozy it research.

1073
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:43.239
<v Speaker 1>And it was very difficult to try and tell the

1074
00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:50.639
<v Speaker 1>story not as Matthew's story, which a lot of articles

1075
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:53.000
<v Speaker 1>do talk about that out there, and I mean there's

1076
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:55.760
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of information on Matthew, so it's kind

1077
00:54:55.760 --> 00:55:00.280
<v Speaker 1>of hard not for it to be his story. But yeah,

1078
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:05.079
<v Speaker 1>I just want to highlight his victims more so Cody, Sarah, Tina,

1079
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:08.599
<v Speaker 1>and Stephanie. Yeah. Fuck Matthew.

1080
00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally fuck him for sure.

1081
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you guys for being here, thank you for

1082
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:18.679
<v Speaker 1>sticking through this whole episode. And yeah, hopefully there's not

1083
00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:21.360
<v Speaker 1>someone camped out your backyard for the next three days.

1084
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:25.719
<v Speaker 1>Why that's creepy, just bugging you, but we do appreciate you.

1085
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:27.719
<v Speaker 1>If you want to check out our social media links,

1086
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:30.079
<v Speaker 1>they're all in the description of this podcast below. We

1087
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:33.280
<v Speaker 1>have Facebook, Instagram, you name it, Patreon, YouTube. You can

1088
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:35.199
<v Speaker 1>go ahead and give us a rating that means a

1089
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:40.119
<v Speaker 1>lot you really appreciate. Yeah, So until next time

1090
00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:43.519
<v Speaker 2>Though, stay wicked.