Speaker 1: Well, Hello, my name is Ben and I'm Nicole, and
Speaker 1: you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Warning. The following podcast contains content and material intended for
Speaker 2: a mature audience listener discretion. And we're back on the podcast. Hello,
Speaker 2: what's going I hope everyone's been doing good. I have
Speaker 2: a sore back from all the research I've been putting
Speaker 2: into this episode.
Speaker 1: Oh my word, you always have a sore back.
Speaker 2: I know it's it comes with age.
Speaker 1: It's like every second podcast you're talking about your sore back.
Speaker 2: Now I need to like make sure I don't talk.
Speaker 2: I want my sore back, and I'm like self conscious
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Thanks, Just drink some more wine more.
Speaker 2: I have got wine and water in front of me. Today.
Speaker 1: We're not fully or we are adulting. We aren't adulting.
Speaker 1: I don't know you need to be an adult to
Speaker 1: drink wine. But last week we weren't drinking alcohol. We
Speaker 1: said we were being adults. So I don't know what
Speaker 1: that means.
Speaker 2: What are you getting at?
Speaker 1: We're drinking this time, that is what I'm getting at.
Speaker 1: We're drinking red wine. It's delicious, it is good.
Speaker 2: Well you just got that? How many bottles did you
Speaker 2: order from sand Case? Get a case from that?
Speaker 1: We're actually drinking Hester Creek right now.
Speaker 2: I thought I just assumed this was going to be
Speaker 2: sand Hill, but I guess not.
Speaker 1: I was saving that for some reason. For what reason,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, but I just needed wine.
Speaker 2: It's a wine.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I needed at a high end wine.
Speaker 1: Just wine.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're drinking wine, you can drink from
Speaker 2: a box, you can drink for a bottle or wine's wine.
Speaker 1: Really, we don't judge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't judge. It gets the job done, and
Speaker 2: that's what's important.
Speaker 1: I do judge a little bit. Actually, I can tell
Speaker 1: a bad wine.
Speaker 2: Okay, what what makes a good wine? In your opinion?
Speaker 2: What are you looking for? I don't think we've ever
Speaker 2: talked about that, have we.
Speaker 1: Well? I had some the other day and it just
Speaker 1: like seemed bland, like it didn't have like you didn't
Speaker 1: take a sip and it wasn't like who like that's
Speaker 1: nice flavor, Like that's.
Speaker 2: Good, there's to it.
Speaker 1: It's not bold. It's just like it was just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you have a sound strip and it
Speaker 1: was just even there was no peaks take.
Speaker 2: There, there's no exponential notes and character. There we go.
Speaker 2: Why did you just say that then?
Speaker 1: Because I never just say things like they should be said.
Speaker 2: You know that you dance around things all the time.
Speaker 2: That's a life of living with you half the time.
Speaker 2: It's trying. It's like deciphering what you're actually trying to
Speaker 2: say because you just say it straight flat out. But
Speaker 2: not even just saying it straight flat out. You say
Speaker 2: it straight flat out and miss half the information.
Speaker 1: But I feel like you're the only one that doesn't
Speaker 1: understand me, So just get it together.
Speaker 2: I try. You can be okay, you can have a
Speaker 2: glass of water and you can be complaining that the
Speaker 2: temperature of your water is like too warm because your
Speaker 2: ice cubes are you didn't put ice cubes in it
Speaker 2: or something, And we'll be watching a movie and you'll
Speaker 2: just be like, this is warm. I'm like, oh, do
Speaker 2: you want me to like turn the temperature down? Know
Speaker 2: the water?
Speaker 1: So you're making it sound like a terrible person. I
Speaker 1: would never complain about the temperature, Walter.
Speaker 2: No, you wouldn't. But that's just like an example of
Speaker 2: how you just like miss half the information.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Well I just needed to point it out
Speaker 1: there that I'm not like that just made me sound
Speaker 1: like a basic bait. Well, I would try am to
Speaker 1: an extent, but not to that extent. I just needed
Speaker 1: to put that out there.
Speaker 2: You kind of basic?
Speaker 1: So are you?
Speaker 2: People are far more basic than me?
Speaker 1: Actually, my life goal is to become less basic. But
Speaker 1: I don't really think I'm succeeding at that at all.
Speaker 1: So I got to work on that.
Speaker 2: You got to work on the basics first.
Speaker 1: It's living in a tiny home basic, I mean not.
Speaker 2: Really, So that's the idea of it is definitely basic.
Speaker 1: But that we're actually doing it.
Speaker 2: That ain't basic, I don't think.
Speaker 1: So there you go. Yeah, come this fall, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be no basic bee no more. It's gone.
Speaker 2: Well, you'll still have the basic bee attitude. Miss Lulupants
Speaker 2: and her glass of wine.
Speaker 1: Okas are comfortable.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they are. Ripley's diving into her toy.
Speaker 1: No, it may be. Okay, let's just see.
Speaker 2: We'll find out. Come here, rip, come lay down over here.
Speaker 2: Come on.
Speaker 1: She's young, so she just has a lot of it staring.
Speaker 2: At me like, how dare you summon me peasant? Okay, anyways,
Speaker 2: let's just get into the episode, Okay, ripley aside we I,
Speaker 2: oh man, I didn't realize how big of a case
Speaker 2: this was when I dove into it.
Speaker 1: You've been talking about it all week. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: It's it's something. Let's have it that way.
Speaker 1: And you haven't really dived into any detailing. You just
Speaker 1: go on, it's so big, this is so big, but
Speaker 1: you'd give me. No.
Speaker 2: I told you some stuff, like we even dropped on
Speaker 2: we dropped on Instagram, and we dropped last week. What
Speaker 2: the case is, like who it is? But I haven't
Speaker 2: given you or anyone else like details. But people have
Speaker 2: looked it up. They know. Yeah, but this case is massive.
Speaker 2: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: Is it? Where's it? Is it Canadian?
Speaker 2: No, it's in the States.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, okay, So let's.
Speaker 2: Just go headfirst into this. Let's just start right out.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: We go die then I kind of like breathe deep people. Okay.
Speaker 2: So it starts on September twenty fifth. In nineteen sixty nine,
Speaker 2: there was an eight year old girl named Tally Shapiro
Speaker 2: who is walking to school along the infamous Sunset Boulevard
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles and Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I want to go there.
Speaker 2: Of course you do. Everyone wants.
Speaker 1: We were supposed to go there. We were COVID.
Speaker 2: Maybe one day, but yeah, COVID's stopping that. Anyway. She's
Speaker 2: walking to school. She's going along Sunset Boulevard, and a
Speaker 2: car pulls up beside her on the on the side
Speaker 2: of the street, and the driver asked if she wanted
Speaker 2: to ride.
Speaker 1: Oh, I hope she said no.
Speaker 2: Tally actually told him like, you know, I don't talk
Speaker 2: to strangers, right, good, you know, stranger danger. She's on that,
Speaker 2: which is really good. And luckily a man had seen
Speaker 2: the vehicle pull up next to the little girl and
Speaker 2: he kind of thought it was it was strange, so
Speaker 2: he kind of like made a note of this, right, Okay,
Speaker 2: So the car was described as beige colored, a beige
Speaker 2: colored car and had no license plates.
Speaker 1: Okay, that is odd.
Speaker 2: Definitely, But I mean we aren't talking the seventies too,
Speaker 2: so I don't know how odd that is for the seventies,
Speaker 2: but it's definitely odd. Yeah. The man in the car
Speaker 2: continued to talk with Tally and apparently told her that
Speaker 2: he knew her parents.
Speaker 1: And that it's okay, okay, that's going too far unless
Speaker 1: he did know them.
Speaker 2: Sorry, we don't know. We'll find out though. Okay, Tally
Speaker 2: only being an eight year old girl and this being
Speaker 2: the seventies and there was no real like stranger danger
Speaker 2: awareness sort of thing, didn't exactly have a lot of
Speaker 2: fear of people, and so reluctantly she got into his vehicle.
Speaker 2: The witness saw Tally get in the vehicle, and he
Speaker 2: followed them and drove the entire way behind this vehicle
Speaker 2: and followed the vehicle to a nearby apartment and there
Speaker 2: the strange man and Tally entered the apartment.
Speaker 1: Does she supposed to be going to school?
Speaker 2: Yes, But this this good samaritan doesn't know that pera
Speaker 2: at this time. He just knows that this little girl
Speaker 2: was approached, got into this man's vehicle. He followed them,
Speaker 2: and they're now at this apartment building and they enter
Speaker 2: the building. So this all seems strange to this bystander,
Speaker 2: so he calls the cops. So the police arrive and
Speaker 2: Officer Chris Camacho knocked on the door, but there was
Speaker 2: no answer. He knocked again and began to threaten to
Speaker 2: break the door down because there's this, you know, strange
Speaker 2: encounter this little girl, like, we know you're in there,
Speaker 2: you need to answer.
Speaker 1: He would have just answered if there was nothing wrong,
Speaker 1: you think.
Speaker 2: You would think so. So anyways, he threatened to break
Speaker 2: the door down, and then after that, the man appeared
Speaker 2: in the window shirtless. Oh an Officer Camacho. He was
Speaker 2: interviewed in a documentary called The Killing Game. Great documentary,
Speaker 2: go watch it if you can. He said, I will
Speaker 2: always remember that face at the window. It was a
Speaker 2: very evil face. So the man the window responded with
Speaker 2: I was in the shower and I have to get dressed,
Speaker 2: to which Officer Camacho told him he has ten seconds
Speaker 2: to open the door and began counting.
Speaker 1: Okay, So like I already have a really aft up feeling.
Speaker 2: Oh you should you very much?
Speaker 1: Like I'm not gonna like this shit?
Speaker 2: Am I no warning to anyone out there? This is
Speaker 2: this is a dark case.
Speaker 1: Okay, because already I'm like, holy shit, what's happening here? Okay?
Speaker 2: So the man was man disappeared from the window and
Speaker 2: Chris Camacho's counting up to ten before he breaks the
Speaker 2: door down. But he's not hearing any any attempt to
Speaker 2: open the door or anything. So he busted the door down.
Speaker 2: What officer Camacho saw when he opened the door was horrific.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, okay.
Speaker 2: There was a large puddle of blood. What a pair
Speaker 2: of little girl's white shoes. What? And the little girl's
Speaker 2: body lay lifeless in the kitchen with a ten pounds
Speaker 2: steel bar across her throat.
Speaker 1: What the shit? And it hadn't even been that long,
Speaker 1: had it like he brought her in there and got
Speaker 1: to business.
Speaker 2: Yep, it hadn't been that long.
Speaker 1: What the shit?
Speaker 2: Because when they arrived at the apartment building and they
Speaker 2: went in the building, the good smartan called the police,
Speaker 2: and the police arrived. I couldn't find like how quickly
Speaker 2: this was, but it was shortly after they arrived, so
Speaker 2: within I don't know, maybe ten fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna oh my gosh, Okay, I wasn't. I was like,
Speaker 1: way to go, good Samaritan. I wasn't expecting.
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely. If it wasn't for this guy, a lot
Speaker 2: more could have happened. So it was clear that this
Speaker 2: little girl had been beaten and strangled with this steel
Speaker 2: bar as well as raped. The man was nowhere in sight,
Speaker 2: so Officer Camacho began to search, but much to his prize,
Speaker 2: Moments later, the lifeless little girl Tally began to cough
Speaker 2: and gasp.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, and.
Speaker 2: She survived due to the life saving actions of Officer
Speaker 2: Chris Camacho.
Speaker 1: Holy well, I like, pick up my jaw from the
Speaker 1: ground here. You got right into this.
Speaker 2: This is massive, just saying okay, so, oh my god,
Speaker 2: good on that. Good Smaritan. I couldn't find a name.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming it's going to be a person who's remaining anonymous.
Speaker 2: And Officer Chris Camacho for their fast actions because if
Speaker 2: it wasn't for them, Tally Shapiro would not be alive.
Speaker 1: Well, and because how many people would even I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think you just like go on your day to
Speaker 1: day you don't even notice, like like I don't know,
Speaker 1: you're busy, you wouldn't even maybe notice that this looked
Speaker 1: like a sketchy incident happening, right, So he was observant
Speaker 1: and like that's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I say so a lot. When I go
Speaker 2: to start the sentences, I got to try and stop that.
Speaker 1: That's okay.
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty sure a dog farted, is what I Okay?
Speaker 1: Is that why you had that facial expression? Because I
Speaker 1: know a dog farted, But I just was like, do
Speaker 1: we need to bring that up again. I was just
Speaker 1: like going with it.
Speaker 2: It's normal in our house. It happens all the time.
Speaker 1: So yeah.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, though, with the officer's attention now on Tally, the
Speaker 2: man who he saw shirtless in the apartment away, he
Speaker 2: was unfortunately able to escape through the back door of
Speaker 2: the apartment.
Speaker 1: Ah that's disgusting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So but like I said, thankfully though, Tally is
Speaker 2: now she's she's safe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this shit that happened to her.
Speaker 2: She went through some shit.
Speaker 1: Hopefully she's like okay later in life.
Speaker 2: Well we'll get there, okay later. After searching the apartment,
Speaker 2: they managed to find a couple of things, lots of
Speaker 2: camera equipment and lots of photos of young girls, like
Speaker 2: hundreds of photos of young girls. And luckily they also
Speaker 2: found identification. Good the man was a student from UCLA
Speaker 2: and then his name was Rodney Alcala. Rodney. We're gonna
Speaker 2: get a little background on this, this douchebag here.
Speaker 1: This literal piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and we'll learn throughout this episode just how
Speaker 2: much of a piece of shot guy is.
Speaker 1: Probably the ice This.
Speaker 2: Is just the tip of the iceberg. This is just
Speaker 2: the thing that starts off all this giant chain of events.
Speaker 2: So this is wow. I don't want to say this
Speaker 2: is what initiates him getting caught, but this is definitely
Speaker 2: the first domino that really affects a lot of it. Anyways, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So Rodney was born August twenty third, nineteen forty three
Speaker 2: as Rodrigo Rodrigo Jack is Alcala Baroque. I think in
Speaker 2: San Antonio, Texas. His name is not important. Who fucking cares,
Speaker 2: I don't care about this guy, but let's get that background. Anyway.
Speaker 2: In nineteen fifty four, the family moved to Mexico, when
Speaker 2: three years later the father actually abandoned the family, and
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty four Rodney and his sorry Rodney was
Speaker 2: about eleven and his mother and two sisters moved to
Speaker 2: the suburbs of Laka. In nineteen sixty one, at the
Speaker 2: age of seventeen, al Kala joined the United States Army
Speaker 2: and served as a clerk. And a clerk is basically
Speaker 2: like a soldier who works like an office job, like
Speaker 2: administrative work, you know, dispatching, typing, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: But I guess they got to like stay in uniform
Speaker 2: and stuff all the time too. I don't know if
Speaker 2: they have a potential of being dispatched in like, oh army. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm assuming they do because they got to stay in
Speaker 2: shape and such. Two.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so they have that potential, but it's mostly
Speaker 2: administrative stuff. However, after a nervous breakdown, he went a
Speaker 2: wall from the army and hitchhiked back to his mother's place.
Speaker 2: He was actually later diagnosed with anti social disorder by
Speaker 2: the military psychiatrist and was discharged on medical grounds. Well.
Speaker 1: I haven't even heard of.
Speaker 2: That me either. Is that a thing apparently, huh antisocial
Speaker 2: personality disorder? I guess huh.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I've never heard of that. That's interesting.
Speaker 2: We've heard of it now, Yeah, and you've heard of
Speaker 2: it on this podcast.
Speaker 1: I feel like I know some people that might have that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, I most people I know probably have that.
Speaker 1: Escually. Now I feel like I almost have that. I
Speaker 1: don't even know how to act in public or social situation.
Speaker 2: Especially with twenty twenty COVID.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with COVID, it's like we don't have those interactions.
Speaker 2: Definitely. Wow, this makes him seem like a sleazy nutcase.
Speaker 2: That whole like being discharged the military sort of thing,
Speaker 2: and trust me, he is like one hundred and ten percent.
Speaker 2: But that's not the perception others actually had of him.
Speaker 2: He was very much like the Ted Bundy that we
Speaker 2: all know, like the very charming young man who had
Speaker 2: those arounded convinced that he was like he couldn't hurt
Speaker 2: a fly and he was like very very nice and
Speaker 2: care or is madic that sort of thing. So that's
Speaker 2: the perception that he had, and that's the kind of
Speaker 2: charm he was able to put on people around him,
Speaker 2: So no one even knew that he had this this
Speaker 2: sort of monstrous, monstrous, I don't know ability in him.
Speaker 1: I guess yeah.
Speaker 2: Like they talked to his uh, his professors and stuff,
Speaker 2: and it was like, how could this. There's no way
Speaker 2: you got the wrong.
Speaker 1: They were shocked. Hey, yeah, holy, that's so interesting that
Speaker 1: someone could put on that sort of facade.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah jinx. In nineteen sixty nine, however, he was
Speaker 2: put on the FBI's most wanted list, and three years
Speaker 2: later he was identified by two young girls who saw
Speaker 2: him on the wanted poster in a post office. They
Speaker 2: recognize him as their camp counselor mister Berger at an
Speaker 2: all girls summer camp in New Hampshire. No full name
Speaker 2: was John Berger, that was Alis. He was out there, yes,
Speaker 2: most certainly what he was doing, yep. Quickly the police
Speaker 2: came in and arrested John Berger or Rodney Ilkala, and
Speaker 2: he was in custody. They found out that since the
Speaker 2: attack on Tali Shapiro, he had moved to New York,
Speaker 2: got into NYU as a film student and has been
Speaker 2: living his life as John Berger.
Speaker 1: And being a counselor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all girls, little summer camp.
Speaker 1: That's freaking nasty.
Speaker 2: So this is just kind of painting the picture of
Speaker 2: the kind of dude we're dealing with here.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is already going on for a couple
Speaker 2: of years, like he was. They didn't know where he
Speaker 2: was for those three years. He just went missing, and
Speaker 2: now he was living as John Berger and he's living
Speaker 2: like wide in the open too, huh, Like wide in
Speaker 2: the open.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 2: The trial for Rodney. The trial for Rodney began, but
Speaker 2: unfortunately Tyleie Shapiro's family moved to Mexico because they wanted
Speaker 2: to escape the trauma, and they refused to appear in court.
Speaker 2: And wouldn't allow Holly to testify against Rodney. Oh dang, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can understand that, but that sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they didn't really have a lot against them
Speaker 2: in that case, unfortunately, so it forced their hand and
Speaker 2: the prosecutor allowed Rodney to plead guilty to a much
Speaker 2: lesser charge of child molestation and he received one year
Speaker 2: to life sentence in prison.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: One year to a life sentence. Now that was an
Speaker 2: interesting little thing because there are two forms of sentencing
Speaker 2: in the United States, determinate and indeterminate, And I guess
Speaker 2: determinate is a specific number of years take like twenty
Speaker 2: five years, means you know exactly what your sentence is,
Speaker 2: and indetermined indeterminate sentencing means that you meet certain qualifications,
Speaker 2: like by parole board and not a judge. But your
Speaker 2: parole might be based on the lowest number of your sentence.
Speaker 2: Calculations They might include like first time offenders, good behavior
Speaker 2: or sorry first time offender or your good behavior. That
Speaker 2: sort of stuff could calculate how long you actually spend
Speaker 2: in prison. But the shortest amount of time you can
Speaker 2: spend is that lowest number, like one year to life.
Speaker 2: So his lowest number he could spend was one year,
Speaker 2: so he was just.
Speaker 1: Like a saint in prison then basically, right, is so
Speaker 1: what that means? Well?
Speaker 2: No, because like in court they're like, Okay, this dude
Speaker 2: is going to go to jail four one to twenty
Speaker 2: five years. Ok yeah, Now, depending on how he is
Speaker 2: in jail and stuff, he could only serve one year,
Speaker 2: could be five determining or depending on those factors, yeah,
Speaker 2: or it could be the full sentence Okay, okay. And
Speaker 2: Rodney's case, he was released on parole only thirty after
Speaker 2: thirty four months in prison. It's only like a couple
Speaker 2: of years.
Speaker 1: Sweet, that's really awesome.
Speaker 2: And in nineteen seventy four under that term indeterminate Sensing
Speaker 2: sentencing program, that's kind of what allowed I allow this
Speaker 2: to happen.
Speaker 1: That just like doesn't actually make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: It does the situation.
Speaker 2: I know, it was like really popular at that time,
Speaker 2: but I don't know if it's like still a thing
Speaker 2: that's usually.
Speaker 1: Among criminals that have to serve way less freaking time.
Speaker 2: No, it was popular amongst like that era.
Speaker 1: I know, I know what you mean, but that's.
Speaker 2: It's definitely popular amongst the.
Speaker 1: Criminals that's just that's brutal.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, of course we are talking like an extremely,
Speaker 2: extremely manipulative person, like very charming, like I said, very
Speaker 2: ten Bundy esque. So why wouldn't he be able to
Speaker 2: put on that facade and show he was rehabilitated and
Speaker 2: make his parole board or psychiatrist think that, oh he's
Speaker 2: he's good to go back out. So of course he's
Speaker 2: going to play that system and he's going to take
Speaker 2: advantage of the lesser sentencing.
Speaker 1: Protocols like a psychopath.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So once he was released on parole, less than two
Speaker 2: months later, Rodney was arrested for violating that parole and
Speaker 2: smoking with a thirteen year old girl. Okay, yeah, the girl.
Speaker 2: I couldn't find any like specifics on this. I found
Speaker 2: like claims on this. So the girl claimed she had
Speaker 2: been kidnapped, and even still, he was once again parolled
Speaker 2: after serving only two years of an indeterminate sentence.
Speaker 1: Well, he was probably not to be near little girls.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, exactly, and that's why he did go to
Speaker 2: jail for another two years. But the girl claimed she
Speaker 2: was kidnapped that I'm not sure, like if she was
Speaker 2: or wasn't, but that was a claim apparently. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: knowing this fucking douchebag and his behavior, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: she probably was kidnapped anyway.
Speaker 1: Probably sounds it sounds like she would have been.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So even though he is out, he is a
Speaker 2: registered sex offender. Just keep that in mind. And due
Speaker 2: to the incident with of course, you know Tally Shapiro, right,
Speaker 2: but still he managed to get right back to his
Speaker 2: normal life due to his his ted Bundy charm, the smile,
Speaker 2: his charisma, and he was making friends, he was dating,
Speaker 2: working as a wedding photographer and even work with the
Speaker 2: La Times.
Speaker 1: But I also feel like to just meeting people, you
Speaker 1: never like checking to see if they're sex offenders, right,
Speaker 1: And I feel like you could get away with that,
Speaker 1: Oh definitely.
Speaker 2: I know, like today's society, like you're meeting someone on
Speaker 2: Tinder or something, you're googling, you're doing like cross referencing,
Speaker 2: photo checks, whatever. But in nineteen seventies, like you don't
Speaker 2: even have the Internet to do that, Like people aren't
Speaker 2: going down to the local police station and being like, hey,
Speaker 2: I just met this guy at a party, can you
Speaker 2: tell me if he has a history, Like that's.
Speaker 1: Not yeah, the normal case. I mean even nowadays, I
Speaker 1: don't think people do that probably as much as they should.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, even still though, like he's working for the
Speaker 2: La Times, you'd think a company like that might do
Speaker 2: background checks or even still even further. On September thirteenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, Rodney was a contestant on the game
Speaker 2: show called The Dating Game, which is where he gets
Speaker 2: his nickname The Dating Game.
Speaker 1: Killer, right right, Okay, that was one tidbit you had
Speaker 1: shared with me.
Speaker 2: So this, like the the Game Show didn't even do.
Speaker 1: Their Yeah you change that they would do background checks.
Speaker 2: Yep, they didn't.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's just not a thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So watching the show, and again, remember this is
Speaker 2: the seventies, so people's character and stuff. Like I watched it,
Speaker 2: it seems a little weird, but just thinking back, it's
Speaker 2: the seventies, right, Well, I want to watch it. You
Speaker 2: can see his charisma and it pays off because he
Speaker 2: actually gets picked on the show.
Speaker 1: Okay, well I don't really know much about the show.
Speaker 2: Okay, well you remember how it's like that dating show
Speaker 2: where it's like you have a bachelor or a bachelorette
Speaker 2: and then behind like partition number one. You have like
Speaker 2: bachelor number one, Bachelor number two, okay, and like the
Speaker 2: girl will be like Bachelor number one, you're taking me
Speaker 2: on an ideal date.
Speaker 1: Where are we going? Okay? So she doesn't see their
Speaker 1: face or anything.
Speaker 2: Correct, they're just like behind this like curtain sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So they're using their charm and the soundnother voice and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Rodney full on, he's making jokes and he's
Speaker 2: like the way he's laughing and smiling like it's coming
Speaker 2: across in his voice and it's it worked like he
Speaker 2: he won.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, well, yeah, doesn't surprise me really.
Speaker 2: Although after the game show, after he was he was picked,
Speaker 2: it's kind of funny he didn't actually get to go
Speaker 2: on the date with a girl because the girl when's
Speaker 2: actually meeting him and stuff, she found him creepy. I
Speaker 2: wonder why, yeah introduced Sorry I missed one little parting
Speaker 2: and to throw us in. When he was introduced on
Speaker 2: the show, he was contestant number one, and he was
Speaker 2: described as a sick a successful photographer and you might
Speaker 2: find him skydiving or motorcycling.
Speaker 3: So I mean that sounds like an exciting individual alright,
Speaker 3: not like raping little girls. Definitely didn't say I like
Speaker 3: to take photos rape and molest little girls.
Speaker 2: It did not say that on the show. Should have.
Speaker 2: It should have if they did their background checks, it
Speaker 2: would have, but it didn't. Yes, so the girl didn't
Speaker 2: end up going on the date with him because he's
Speaker 2: totally like a creep and she got some bad vibes
Speaker 2: from him, and she actually asked the game show like,
Speaker 2: do I have any obligations? Did I sign anything that
Speaker 2: says I have to go on this date? And they're
Speaker 2: like no, like, we can't force you to do that shit.
Speaker 2: So she didn't do that. She didn't go on the
Speaker 2: date with him, which there are some theories from psychiatrists
Speaker 2: and stuff like that which may have triggered something in
Speaker 2: him that resulted in more cases. Oh really, yes, so
Speaker 2: that could have been.
Speaker 1: Well, it was good for her for going on her
Speaker 1: gut people don't listen there. Good enough.
Speaker 2: Well, most likely if she did go on the date
Speaker 2: with this dude, she probably would have ended up murdered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then now this caused more shit like that sucks.
Speaker 2: Well, I will say this though, Like we find out
Speaker 2: a little bit later on, this was when he was
Speaker 2: on this dating show. This was in the middle of
Speaker 2: his killing spree, so like right, smack dab in it.
Speaker 1: So her like creepy killer vibe radar.
Speaker 2: Was just yeah, she was pinging that on her radar.
Speaker 2: She's like, this dude is gonna kill me.
Speaker 1: So I have a good radar for that.
Speaker 2: Hopefully you never have to use it.
Speaker 1: That's true, That's very true.
Speaker 2: So in the spring of nineteen seventy nine, a twelve
Speaker 2: year old girl from Huntington Beach, California, Robin Samso, was
Speaker 2: at the beach with her her best friend, Bridget Wilvert.
Speaker 2: I think is how you say her name. They were
Speaker 2: at the beach and they were approached by a man
Speaker 2: who was who asked if they he could take Robin's photo.
Speaker 2: She happily said yes. You know, he charmed her, you know,
Speaker 2: said maybe you know I'm doing a photo contest that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, and you know, happily said yes, and
Speaker 2: he took her photo, and Bridget kind of got some
Speaker 2: off vibes from this guy, she was saying, and he
Speaker 2: was chased off kind of by a neighbor of Robin's
Speaker 2: who was kind of like, oh, who's this and he
Speaker 2: kind of like quickly scuttled away sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, it's one thing if you're taking photos of
Speaker 1: like a grown person on the beach, but not a child.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're a girl on the beach.
Speaker 1: So that's yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah. After Robin left the beach, she had to go
Speaker 2: to her ballet practice, and on she disappeared on the
Speaker 2: way there. She never made it to ballet practice.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't see that coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was on June twentieth, nineteen seventy nine, and
Speaker 2: her ballet teacher called her parents let her know that
Speaker 2: she never showed up to class. And her parents immediately
Speaker 2: phoned nine one one.
Speaker 1: Okay and sorry, I just need to clarify something. So
Speaker 1: Robin was the one that he was taking photos of, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: not the friend.
Speaker 2: Oh the friend was Bridget Okay, So they phoned nine
Speaker 2: one one immediately. There's they're searching for her. Her brothers
Speaker 2: were riding their bikes and I quote from them, hours
Speaker 2: and hours they were riding along the path where she
Speaker 2: was supposed to be, searching for her. Oh no, and
Speaker 2: those hours and hours turned into days.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, okay, that's really sad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my heart. Twelve days later, in the foothills
Speaker 2: of Los Angeles, more than forty miles away from where
Speaker 2: she was at the beach, Robin's body was found. Oh no,
Speaker 2: she was so unrecognizable from the elements and scavengers. It
Speaker 2: took police three days to identify her remains and she
Speaker 2: was mostly just bones.
Speaker 1: Wow. Oh yeah, shit cool.
Speaker 2: How are you enjoying this case so far?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm actually really fucking glad. I have a glass
Speaker 1: of wine right now because this is stressful. Shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 1: That's so sad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, so so far we've we've talked about
Speaker 2: an eight year old girl and a twelve year old.
Speaker 1: Girl, and that's probably not even it.
Speaker 2: Oh that's not it.
Speaker 1: Well no, I mean there was even probably more in
Speaker 1: there that like, oh yeah, slip through the cracks.
Speaker 2: Well, look at those hundreds of photos they found in
Speaker 2: his apartments.
Speaker 1: Well, and the freaking that fact that he was a.
Speaker 2: Camp counselor yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's just like enough to make you on a vomit.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, because of that incident at the beach though,
Speaker 2: with the man that was taking Robin's picture, her friend Bridget,
Speaker 2: who was there with her, was able to give a
Speaker 2: description of the man to the police, and they released
Speaker 2: a sketch, which we've already put up on our Instagram.
Speaker 2: You guys can go check that out. The sketch led
Speaker 2: a parole officer to call police and I identify Rodney.
Speaker 2: I'll call it.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so this is good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Rodney was identified. He's like, you need to
Speaker 2: look into this guy. He matches the description, looks a
Speaker 2: lot like the man you're looking for.
Speaker 1: I just broke our pillow.
Speaker 2: How did you break a pillow?
Speaker 1: My finger just went right through it. That's interesting. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 2: Your sex tape.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'll focus. I was just like, how do
Speaker 1: you break a pillow?
Speaker 2: I don't know, broken pillow? That doesn't like ripped.
Speaker 1: It to me? The inside is ripped. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Keep going, Sorry, how do you know the inside of
Speaker 2: the pillow?
Speaker 1: Outside is fine? I just felt it in the inside.
Speaker 2: What did you do to that?
Speaker 1: I don't figure it out after Okay, this is really
Speaker 1: I think it's it's my stress ball. Maybe. I was
Speaker 1: just like for maybe. So.
Speaker 2: Rodney was currently living with his parents and he was
Speaker 2: out on bail at the time for the brutal rape
Speaker 2: and abduction of a fifteen year old Monique Hoit. She
Speaker 2: was posing for photos for him when he knocked her
Speaker 2: unconscious and she was found left for dead with a
Speaker 2: shirt shoved in her mouth.
Speaker 1: Okay, but she didn't die.
Speaker 2: She didn't die.
Speaker 1: So with all these people, these little girls saying they'd
Speaker 1: pose for photos.
Speaker 2: Well, like he's very charming, right, and he's this photographer,
Speaker 2: and he kept saying things like, you know, I'm working
Speaker 2: on like magazine or contest to photo contests, these sort
Speaker 2: of things. And he's convincing these girls that they'll be
Speaker 2: seen in magazines or whatever, and he's gonna take their photo.
Speaker 1: And that age, you're very like I want to be seen, Oh.
Speaker 2: Definitely, right, So they're thinking I can get in a magazine,
Speaker 2: I could be famous.
Speaker 3: M hm.
Speaker 2: So yeah, she was unfortunately left for dead by Rodney Alcala.
Speaker 2: And again though he was out on bail, Like this
Speaker 2: is now how many cases we've already gone through and
Speaker 2: he's just still walking around?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, how come he's not just in prison for life?
Speaker 2: He already should be exactly Unfortunately, like if Tally Shapiro
Speaker 2: was at her trial, he very well could have been.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: Eek yeah. At his residence, they found a receipt for
Speaker 2: a storage locker, and after investigating said locker, oh, they
Speaker 2: found Robin's earrings amongst a small bag of other earrings
Speaker 2: and hundreds of photos of young girls who were in
Speaker 2: their swimsuits or nude and Rodney was even present in
Speaker 2: some of these photos, very sexual explicit photos.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, scrawls.
Speaker 2: Yes, like this dude just keeps getting worse and worse,
Speaker 2: Like he's so skeevy.
Speaker 1: Oh storage in hey, right, I see, Like storage units
Speaker 1: are sketch.
Speaker 2: And the one of the reasons they actually really jumped
Speaker 2: on the storage unit was they had Rodney Alcala in
Speaker 2: custody and he was actually on the phone with his
Speaker 2: sister while he was in jail, and he told his
Speaker 2: sister that she needs to clear out this locker for him.
Speaker 2: Rodney didn't know that the police were listening to this call,
Speaker 2: and the police were like, we have a receipt for
Speaker 2: a storage locker and his possessions that we found at
Speaker 2: his home. We need to beat the sister there. They
Speaker 2: beat the sister to the storage locker before she could
Speaker 2: get there, and they found this shit.
Speaker 1: I'm so surprised that because he was like living with
Speaker 1: his parents, and like, does this the family not know
Speaker 1: that he's nuts? I mean, yeah, you're always biased through
Speaker 1: own family, I guess.
Speaker 2: And again, his charm, his charisma, the facadey he put on.
Speaker 1: His charm's pissing me off right now.
Speaker 2: But it just shows how manipulative he is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Like it's true psychopath.
Speaker 2: He's he's fucking horrible. He's a fucking demon. But what
Speaker 2: sort of person can be that inside and fool those
Speaker 2: around him on the outside. It's fucking scary.
Speaker 1: It would be interesting to know if his sister would
Speaker 1: have like cared about those photos or if she would
Speaker 1: have just discarded them like he wanted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of interested in that too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyways, he was arrested for the murder of Robin
Speaker 2: Samso on July twenty fourth of nineteen seventy nine, and
Speaker 2: in February of nineteen eighty his trial began. Okay, and
Speaker 2: you know what, I we're cutting it a little bit
Speaker 2: short here, but we got a lot of stuff to
Speaker 2: go through. So I think this is where I'm going
Speaker 2: to cut it off and say that we'll leave the
Speaker 2: rest for next episode.
Speaker 1: This is This is the first of two.
Speaker 2: The first of two. We're gonna get into rodneyl call
Speaker 2: his trials in the next one, and a lot of
Speaker 2: shit happens. Still, we got a lot more to go through.
Speaker 1: It's already been a wild ride, it has let's just
Speaker 1: continue it.
Speaker 2: We're not going to make you guys wait an entire week, though,
Speaker 2: we'll drop this. What should make him wait? One day?
Speaker 2: Two days? What do you think?
Speaker 1: Are you gonna make me? Maybe the bad one?
Speaker 2: I was thinking too to Oh shit, you really want
Speaker 2: to build that suspense, don't you.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, you guys are gonna wait two days, So this
Speaker 2: is dropping on Tuesday, and on Thursday, the second part
Speaker 2: will come out, and you guys will get to hear
Speaker 2: all about what this fucking trash bag of a human
Speaker 2: went through in his trials and what he put everyone
Speaker 2: else through too.
Speaker 1: I hope that uh it satisfied, satisfies us a little,
Speaker 1: but we shall see.
Speaker 2: We'll get there. Mm hmm, okay, well until until that episode.
Speaker 1: Until then, stay wicked, friends,