WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.640 Well, Hello, my name is Ben and I'm Nicole, and 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:07.480 you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. 3 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:15.960 Warning. The following podcast contains content and material intended for 4 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:40.479 a mature audience listener discretion. And we're back on the podcast. Hello, 5 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:44.119 what's going I hope everyone's been doing good. I have 6 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:46.000 a sore back from all the research I've been putting 7 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:46.759 into this episode. 8 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:50.679 Oh my word, you always have a sore back. 9 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:52.759 I know it's it comes with age. 10 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:56.079 It's like every second podcast you're talking about your sore back. 11 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.840 Now I need to like make sure I don't talk. 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.159 I want my sore back, and I'm like self conscious 13 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:02.359 of it. 14 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:04.799 Thanks, Just drink some more wine more. 15 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:07.359 I have got wine and water in front of me. Today. 16 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:11.519 We're not fully or we are adulting. We aren't adulting. 17 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:12.879 I don't know you need to be an adult to 18 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:15.799 drink wine. But last week we weren't drinking alcohol. We 19 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:18.599 said we were being adults. So I don't know what 20 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:19.319 that means. 21 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:20.480 What are you getting at? 22 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:23.920 We're drinking this time, that is what I'm getting at. 23 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:26.920 We're drinking red wine. It's delicious, it is good. 24 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:28.760 Well you just got that? How many bottles did you 25 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:31.120 order from sand Case? Get a case from that? 26 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.359 We're actually drinking Hester Creek right now. 27 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:35.319 I thought I just assumed this was going to be 28 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:36.280 sand Hill, but I guess not. 29 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:39.439 I was saving that for some reason. For what reason, 30 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:42.719 I don't know, I don't know, but I just needed wine. 31 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:44.159 It's a wine. 32 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:46.319 I didn't feel like I needed at a high end wine. 33 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:47.760 Just wine. 34 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:49.920 I mean, if you're drinking wine, you can drink from 35 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:52.920 a box, you can drink for a bottle or wine's wine. 36 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:54.120 Really, we don't judge. 37 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:56.120 Yeah, we don't judge. It gets the job done, and 38 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:56.879 that's what's important. 39 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:59.400 I do judge a little bit. Actually, I can tell 40 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:00.000 a bad wine. 41 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:03.280 Okay, what what makes a good wine? In your opinion? 42 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:05.760 What are you looking for? I don't think we've ever 43 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:06.719 talked about that, have we. 44 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:08.479 Well? I had some the other day and it just 45 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:12.840 like seemed bland, like it didn't have like you didn't 46 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:14.879 take a sip and it wasn't like who like that's 47 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:16.919 nice flavor, Like that's. 48 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:18.479 Good, there's to it. 49 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.879 It's not bold. It's just like it was just like, 50 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:25.120 I don't know, you have a sound strip and it 51 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.199 was just even there was no peaks take. 52 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:35.159 There, there's no exponential notes and character. There we go. 53 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:36.240 Why did you just say that then? 54 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.719 Because I never just say things like they should be said. 55 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:42.759 You know that you dance around things all the time. 56 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.680 That's a life of living with you half the time. 57 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.120 It's trying. It's like deciphering what you're actually trying to 58 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.719 say because you just say it straight flat out. But 59 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:52.319 not even just saying it straight flat out. You say 60 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:54.840 it straight flat out and miss half the information. 61 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.120 But I feel like you're the only one that doesn't 62 00:02:57.159 --> 00:02:59.439 understand me, So just get it together. 63 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.800 I try. You can be okay, you can have a 64 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.560 glass of water and you can be complaining that the 65 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.199 temperature of your water is like too warm because your 66 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:11.759 ice cubes are you didn't put ice cubes in it 67 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.120 or something, And we'll be watching a movie and you'll 68 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:16.919 just be like, this is warm. I'm like, oh, do 69 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:19.439 you want me to like turn the temperature down? Know 70 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:20.039 the water? 71 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:22.520 So you're making it sound like a terrible person. I 72 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.039 would never complain about the temperature, Walter. 73 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:27.520 No, you wouldn't. But that's just like an example of 74 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:29.599 how you just like miss half the information. 75 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:32.599 Okay, okay, Well I just needed to point it out 76 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:35.240 there that I'm not like that just made me sound 77 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.680 like a basic bait. Well, I would try am to 78 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.280 an extent, but not to that extent. I just needed 79 00:03:41.319 --> 00:03:42.080 to put that out there. 80 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:43.039 You kind of basic? 81 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:44.039 So are you? 82 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:46.719 People are far more basic than me? 83 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:50.639 Actually, my life goal is to become less basic. But 84 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:52.599 I don't really think I'm succeeding at that at all. 85 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:53.719 So I got to work on that. 86 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.319 You got to work on the basics first. 87 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.520 It's living in a tiny home basic, I mean not. 88 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.439 Really, So that's the idea of it is definitely basic. 89 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:05.159 But that we're actually doing it. 90 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:06.439 That ain't basic, I don't think. 91 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:09.280 So there you go. Yeah, come this fall, I'm not 92 00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:12.080 going to be no basic bee no more. It's gone. 93 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:15.719 Well, you'll still have the basic bee attitude. Miss Lulupants 94 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:16.759 and her glass of wine. 95 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.319 Okas are comfortable. 96 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:21.959 I'm sure they are. Ripley's diving into her toy. 97 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:26.120 No, it may be. Okay, let's just see. 98 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.199 We'll find out. Come here, rip, come lay down over here. 99 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:28.759 Come on. 100 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:33.360 She's young, so she just has a lot of it staring. 101 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:38.000 At me like, how dare you summon me peasant? Okay, anyways, 102 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:42.920 let's just get into the episode, Okay, ripley aside we I, 103 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:45.040 oh man, I didn't realize how big of a case 104 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:46.079 this was when I dove into it. 105 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:48.360 You've been talking about it all week. I'm excited. 106 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:51.439 It's it's something. Let's have it that way. 107 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:54.439 And you haven't really dived into any detailing. You just 108 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:57.360 go on, it's so big, this is so big, but 109 00:04:57.399 --> 00:04:58.319 you'd give me. No. 110 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:01.040 I told you some stuff, like we even dropped on 111 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:03.759 we dropped on Instagram, and we dropped last week. What 112 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:07.560 the case is, like who it is? But I haven't 113 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.439 given you or anyone else like details. But people have 114 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:14.519 looked it up. They know. Yeah, but this case is massive. 115 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:15.560 Oh my god? 116 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:17.680 Is it? Where's it? Is it Canadian? 117 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:18.560 No, it's in the States. 118 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:21.319 Oh okay, okay, okay, So let's. 119 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.959 Just go headfirst into this. Let's just start right out. 120 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:26.040 Here. 121 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:28.879 We go die then I kind of like breathe deep people. Okay. 122 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:32.839 So it starts on September twenty fifth. In nineteen sixty nine, 123 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:35.800 there was an eight year old girl named Tally Shapiro 124 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:39.439 who is walking to school along the infamous Sunset Boulevard 125 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:41.000 in Los Angeles and Hollywood. 126 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:42.480 Oh my goodness, I want to go there. 127 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:43.920 Of course you do. Everyone wants. 128 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.839 We were supposed to go there. We were COVID. 129 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:50.000 Maybe one day, but yeah, COVID's stopping that. Anyway. She's 130 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:52.959 walking to school. She's going along Sunset Boulevard, and a 131 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.959 car pulls up beside her on the on the side 132 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.240 of the street, and the driver asked if she wanted 133 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:57.720 to ride. 134 00:05:58.079 --> 00:05:59.199 Oh, I hope she said no. 135 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.199 Tally actually told him like, you know, I don't talk 136 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.199 to strangers, right, good, you know, stranger danger. She's on that, 137 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:09.079 which is really good. And luckily a man had seen 138 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:12.079 the vehicle pull up next to the little girl and 139 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:14.000 he kind of thought it was it was strange, so 140 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:16.120 he kind of like made a note of this, right, Okay, 141 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:19.319 So the car was described as beige colored, a beige 142 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:21.560 colored car and had no license plates. 143 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:23.279 Okay, that is odd. 144 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:25.600 Definitely, But I mean we aren't talking the seventies too, 145 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:27.839 so I don't know how odd that is for the seventies, 146 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.560 but it's definitely odd. Yeah. The man in the car 147 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:33.800 continued to talk with Tally and apparently told her that 148 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:34.920 he knew her parents. 149 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.160 And that it's okay, okay, that's going too far unless 150 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:39.839 he did know them. 151 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:42.959 Sorry, we don't know. We'll find out though. Okay, Tally 152 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:45.600 only being an eight year old girl and this being 153 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:48.079 the seventies and there was no real like stranger danger 154 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.319 awareness sort of thing, didn't exactly have a lot of 155 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:54.439 fear of people, and so reluctantly she got into his vehicle. 156 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:57.720 The witness saw Tally get in the vehicle, and he 157 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.199 followed them and drove the entire way behind this vehicle 158 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.399 and followed the vehicle to a nearby apartment and there 159 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:09.120 the strange man and Tally entered the apartment. 160 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:11.040 Does she supposed to be going to school? 161 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:15.639 Yes, But this this good samaritan doesn't know that pera 162 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:17.399 at this time. He just knows that this little girl 163 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:20.680 was approached, got into this man's vehicle. He followed them, 164 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:23.399 and they're now at this apartment building and they enter 165 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.240 the building. So this all seems strange to this bystander, 166 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:31.600 so he calls the cops. So the police arrive and 167 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:34.720 Officer Chris Camacho knocked on the door, but there was 168 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.639 no answer. He knocked again and began to threaten to 169 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:41.079 break the door down because there's this, you know, strange 170 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:43.199 encounter this little girl, like, we know you're in there, 171 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:44.639 you need to answer. 172 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:47.439 He would have just answered if there was nothing wrong, 173 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:48.199 you think. 174 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.319 You would think so. So anyways, he threatened to break 175 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.800 the door down, and then after that, the man appeared 176 00:07:53.839 --> 00:08:01.000 in the window shirtless. Oh an Officer Camacho. He was 177 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.399 interviewed in a documentary called The Killing Game. Great documentary, 178 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:06.560 go watch it if you can. He said, I will 179 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:10.439 always remember that face at the window. It was a 180 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:14.600 very evil face. So the man the window responded with 181 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:17.000 I was in the shower and I have to get dressed, 182 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:20.439 to which Officer Camacho told him he has ten seconds 183 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.519 to open the door and began counting. 184 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:27.000 Okay, So like I already have a really aft up feeling. 185 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:29.319 Oh you should you very much? 186 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:30.839 Like I'm not gonna like this shit? 187 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.080 Am I no warning to anyone out there? This is 188 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:37.200 this is a dark case. 189 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.799 Okay, because already I'm like, holy shit, what's happening here? Okay? 190 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:45.600 So the man was man disappeared from the window and 191 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.279 Chris Camacho's counting up to ten before he breaks the 192 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.200 door down. But he's not hearing any any attempt to 193 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.200 open the door or anything. So he busted the door down. 194 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:59.720 What officer Camacho saw when he opened the door was horrific. 195 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:01.240 Oh no, no, okay. 196 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.120 There was a large puddle of blood. What a pair 197 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.440 of little girl's white shoes. What? And the little girl's 198 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.600 body lay lifeless in the kitchen with a ten pounds 199 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:12.200 steel bar across her throat. 200 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.360 What the shit? And it hadn't even been that long, 201 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:17.440 had it like he brought her in there and got 202 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:18.080 to business. 203 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:19.519 Yep, it hadn't been that long. 204 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:20.919 What the shit? 205 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:23.480 Because when they arrived at the apartment building and they 206 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:25.759 went in the building, the good smartan called the police, 207 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:29.440 and the police arrived. I couldn't find like how quickly 208 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:33.000 this was, but it was shortly after they arrived, so 209 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:35.159 within I don't know, maybe ten fifteen minutes. 210 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.919 I'm gonna oh my gosh, Okay, I wasn't. I was like, 211 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.519 way to go, good Samaritan. I wasn't expecting. 212 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:43.360 Yes, definitely. If it wasn't for this guy, a lot 213 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:47.320 more could have happened. So it was clear that this 214 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:50.639 little girl had been beaten and strangled with this steel 215 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:56.440 bar as well as raped. The man was nowhere in sight, 216 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:00.440 so Officer Camacho began to search, but much to his prize, 217 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.519 Moments later, the lifeless little girl Tally began to cough 218 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:04.120 and gasp. 219 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:07.639 Oh okay, and. 220 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:10.440 She survived due to the life saving actions of Officer 221 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:11.440 Chris Camacho. 222 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:14.720 Holy well, I like, pick up my jaw from the 223 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:16.559 ground here. You got right into this. 224 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.360 This is massive, just saying okay, so, oh my god, 225 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.519 good on that. Good Smaritan. I couldn't find a name. 226 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.279 I'm assuming it's going to be a person who's remaining anonymous. 227 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:32.399 And Officer Chris Camacho for their fast actions because if 228 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:36.480 it wasn't for them, Tally Shapiro would not be alive. 229 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.639 Well, and because how many people would even I don't know. 230 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:41.159 I think you just like go on your day to 231 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:44.679 day you don't even notice, like like I don't know, 232 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:46.919 you're busy, you wouldn't even maybe notice that this looked 233 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:50.360 like a sketchy incident happening, right, So he was observant 234 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:51.399 and like that's awesome. 235 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:55.919 Yes, So I say so a lot. When I go 236 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.039 to start the sentences, I got to try and stop that. 237 00:10:58.039 --> 00:10:58.679 That's okay. 238 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:02.960 So I'm pretty sure a dog farted, is what I Okay? 239 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.279 Is that why you had that facial expression? Because I 240 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:06.840 know a dog farted, But I just was like, do 241 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.039 we need to bring that up again. I was just 242 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:10.240 like going with it. 243 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.720 It's normal in our house. It happens all the time. 244 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:14.600 So yeah. 245 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:19.559 Unfortunately, though, with the officer's attention now on Tally, the 246 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:23.879 man who he saw shirtless in the apartment away, he 247 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.840 was unfortunately able to escape through the back door of 248 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:27.480 the apartment. 249 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:31.320 Ah that's disgusting. 250 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:34.720 Yeah. So but like I said, thankfully though, Tally is 251 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:36.639 now she's she's safe. 252 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:38.759 Yeah, this shit that happened to her. 253 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:40.360 She went through some shit. 254 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.919 Hopefully she's like okay later in life. 255 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:48.799 Well we'll get there, okay later. After searching the apartment, 256 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:51.480 they managed to find a couple of things, lots of 257 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:55.360 camera equipment and lots of photos of young girls, like 258 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.679 hundreds of photos of young girls. And luckily they also 259 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.840 found identification. Good the man was a student from UCLA 260 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:10.720 and then his name was Rodney Alcala. Rodney. We're gonna 261 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:13.399 get a little background on this, this douchebag here. 262 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:15.080 This literal piece of shit. 263 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.960 Yeah yeah, and we'll learn throughout this episode just how 264 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.120 much of a piece of shot guy is. 265 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.639 Probably the ice This. 266 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:25.039 Is just the tip of the iceberg. This is just 267 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:29.120 the thing that starts off all this giant chain of events. 268 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:32.799 So this is wow. I don't want to say this 269 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:38.159 is what initiates him getting caught, but this is definitely 270 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:42.919 the first domino that really affects a lot of it. Anyways, Yeah, 271 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.360 So Rodney was born August twenty third, nineteen forty three 272 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:53.000 as Rodrigo Rodrigo Jack is Alcala Baroque. I think in 273 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:56.120 San Antonio, Texas. His name is not important. Who fucking cares, 274 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.320 I don't care about this guy, but let's get that background. Anyway. 275 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:04.000 In nineteen fifty four, the family moved to Mexico, when 276 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:07.039 three years later the father actually abandoned the family, and 277 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.879 in nineteen fifty four Rodney and his sorry Rodney was 278 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:14.440 about eleven and his mother and two sisters moved to 279 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:18.440 the suburbs of Laka. In nineteen sixty one, at the 280 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.039 age of seventeen, al Kala joined the United States Army 281 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:24.440 and served as a clerk. And a clerk is basically 282 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.639 like a soldier who works like an office job, like 283 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:30.480 administrative work, you know, dispatching, typing, all that sort of stuff. 284 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:32.759 But I guess they got to like stay in uniform 285 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:34.360 and stuff all the time too. I don't know if 286 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:38.639 they have a potential of being dispatched in like, oh army. Yeah, 287 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:40.759 I'm assuming they do because they got to stay in 288 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:41.600 shape and such. Two. 289 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:43.159 Oh okay, that makes sense. 290 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.639 So yeah, so they have that potential, but it's mostly 291 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:51.000 administrative stuff. However, after a nervous breakdown, he went a 292 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.360 wall from the army and hitchhiked back to his mother's place. 293 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.600 He was actually later diagnosed with anti social disorder by 294 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:02.639 the military psychiatrist and was discharged on medical grounds. Well. 295 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:03.679 I haven't even heard of. 296 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:08.000 That me either. Is that a thing apparently, huh antisocial 297 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:11.440 personality disorder? I guess huh. 298 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:13.240 Oh, yeah, I've never heard of that. That's interesting. 299 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:14.879 We've heard of it now, Yeah, and you've heard of 300 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:15.919 it on this podcast. 301 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:18.159 I feel like I know some people that might have that. 302 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:23.360 Yeah. Actually, I most people I know probably have that. 303 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:25.480 Escually. Now I feel like I almost have that. I 304 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.919 don't even know how to act in public or social situation. 305 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:30.240 Especially with twenty twenty COVID. 306 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.039 Yeah, with COVID, it's like we don't have those interactions. 307 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:38.039 Definitely. Wow, this makes him seem like a sleazy nutcase. 308 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.919 That whole like being discharged the military sort of thing, 309 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:43.919 and trust me, he is like one hundred and ten percent. 310 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.080 But that's not the perception others actually had of him. 311 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.240 He was very much like the Ted Bundy that we 312 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:54.759 all know, like the very charming young man who had 313 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:57.360 those arounded convinced that he was like he couldn't hurt 314 00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.759 a fly and he was like very very nice and 315 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:02.120 care or is madic that sort of thing. So that's 316 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.000 the perception that he had, and that's the kind of 317 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.320 charm he was able to put on people around him, 318 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.759 So no one even knew that he had this this 319 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:15.519 sort of monstrous, monstrous, I don't know ability in him. 320 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.039 I guess yeah. 321 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:19.200 Like they talked to his uh, his professors and stuff, 322 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:20.919 and it was like, how could this. There's no way 323 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:21.600 you got the wrong. 324 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:25.600 They were shocked. Hey, yeah, holy, that's so interesting that 325 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.120 someone could put on that sort of facade. 326 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.399 Yeah yeah jinx. In nineteen sixty nine, however, he was 327 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:38.080 put on the FBI's most wanted list, and three years 328 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:40.639 later he was identified by two young girls who saw 329 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.440 him on the wanted poster in a post office. They 330 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:47.679 recognize him as their camp counselor mister Berger at an 331 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:51.519 all girls summer camp in New Hampshire. No full name 332 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.120 was John Berger, that was Alis. He was out there, yes, 333 00:15:55.960 --> 00:16:02.000 most certainly what he was doing, yep. Quickly the police 334 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:06.720 came in and arrested John Berger or Rodney Ilkala, and 335 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.120 he was in custody. They found out that since the 336 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.559 attack on Tali Shapiro, he had moved to New York, 337 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.559 got into NYU as a film student and has been 338 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:16.679 living his life as John Berger. 339 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:18.759 And being a counselor. 340 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.240 Yeah, all girls, little summer camp. 341 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:23.440 That's freaking nasty. 342 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:25.759 So this is just kind of painting the picture of 343 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:29.000 the kind of dude we're dealing with here. 344 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:30.360 It is. 345 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.240 Yeah, and this is already going on for a couple 346 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:33.960 of years, like he was. They didn't know where he 347 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.559 was for those three years. He just went missing, and 348 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.080 now he was living as John Berger and he's living 349 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.799 like wide in the open too, huh, Like wide in 350 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:43.240 the open. 351 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:44.240 Interesting. 352 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:51.679 The trial for Rodney. The trial for Rodney began, but 353 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:56.200 unfortunately Tyleie Shapiro's family moved to Mexico because they wanted 354 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:59.080 to escape the trauma, and they refused to appear in court. 355 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:04.759 And wouldn't allow Holly to testify against Rodney. Oh dang, unfortunately. 356 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:06.559 I mean, I can understand that, but that sucks. 357 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.200 Yeah. So they didn't really have a lot against them 358 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.799 in that case, unfortunately, so it forced their hand and 359 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.799 the prosecutor allowed Rodney to plead guilty to a much 360 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:23.240 lesser charge of child molestation and he received one year 361 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:24.839 to life sentence in prison. 362 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:26.039 That's it. 363 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.079 One year to a life sentence. Now that was an 364 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:32.039 interesting little thing because there are two forms of sentencing 365 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:36.000 in the United States, determinate and indeterminate, And I guess 366 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.720 determinate is a specific number of years take like twenty 367 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:40.960 five years, means you know exactly what your sentence is, 368 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:46.319 and indetermined indeterminate sentencing means that you meet certain qualifications, 369 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.039 like by parole board and not a judge. But your 370 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:51.839 parole might be based on the lowest number of your sentence. 371 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:56.000 Calculations They might include like first time offenders, good behavior 372 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:58.759 or sorry first time offender or your good behavior. That 373 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:02.079 sort of stuff could calculate how long you actually spend 374 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:05.680 in prison. But the shortest amount of time you can 375 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.240 spend is that lowest number, like one year to life. 376 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.799 So his lowest number he could spend was one year, 377 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:12.799 so he was just. 378 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:16.200 Like a saint in prison then basically, right, is so 379 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:18.400 what that means? Well? 380 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:20.559 No, because like in court they're like, Okay, this dude 381 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:26.319 is going to go to jail four one to twenty 382 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.599 five years. Ok yeah, Now, depending on how he is 383 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:33.319 in jail and stuff, he could only serve one year, 384 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.200 could be five determining or depending on those factors, yeah, 385 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.599 or it could be the full sentence Okay, okay. And 386 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:46.160 Rodney's case, he was released on parole only thirty after 387 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.319 thirty four months in prison. It's only like a couple 388 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:50.000 of years. 389 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.519 Sweet, that's really awesome. 390 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.240 And in nineteen seventy four under that term indeterminate Sensing 391 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.480 sentencing program, that's kind of what allowed I allow this 392 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:01.000 to happen. 393 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:03.160 That just like doesn't actually make a lot of sense. 394 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:04.519 It does the situation. 395 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.599 I know, it was like really popular at that time, 396 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.839 but I don't know if it's like still a thing 397 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:09.720 that's usually. 398 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:12.720 Among criminals that have to serve way less freaking time. 399 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:15.799 No, it was popular amongst like that era. 400 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:18.160 I know, I know what you mean, but that's. 401 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.000