Speaker 1: By Billy Cunning him the Great America. And as I
Speaker 1: look to my left, the body of a hero. Larry
Speaker 1: Henderson has arrived at Spring Grove Cemetery for proceedings there,
Speaker 1: and we'll be in tombs sometime later this afternoon. But
Speaker 1: as we continue, of course, as we're all well aware,
Speaker 1: yesterday the shocking news came out that we have an
Speaker 1: American pope for the first time ever. It was thought
Speaker 1: impossible for lots of reasons, but Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost
Speaker 1: was elevated from his status as a cardinal. He was
Speaker 1: only became a cardinal a couple of years years ago,
Speaker 1: and so many are a commenting whether or not he
Speaker 1: will be shall we say in the vein of Francis
Speaker 1: the First, or will he be in the vein of
Speaker 1: his two predecessors? Will he be a liberal or will
Speaker 1: he be a conservative? I would note that there is
Speaker 1: some information available that he was a registered Republican at
Speaker 1: one point, and he also was a White Sox fan,
Speaker 1: despite the protestations of the contrary. And there are some
Speaker 1: conservative commentators like or Loomer, she's branding our new pope
Speaker 1: already as woke and a Marxist which is a blasphemy
Speaker 1: in my viewpoint. But the man who set the record
Speaker 1: straight is Michael McDonald the Catholic League of New York
Speaker 1: City and Michael McDonald, welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show.
Speaker 1: And first of all, Mike, let's talk about what happened
Speaker 1: yesterday about twelve fifteen, twelve twenty in the afternoon Eastern time.
Speaker 1: Described the level of shock that you felt when the
Speaker 1: Cardinals picked an American pope.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bill, it's great to be with you. This is
Speaker 2: a tremendous moment in American history. I mean, you look
Speaker 2: around Cardinal prevosts Now, Pope Leo the fourteenth wasn't really
Speaker 2: on anyone's like top five lists. Yeah, you'd see him
Speaker 2: as on a couple of these lists. Is oh, there's
Speaker 2: actually another American cardinal. He's actually down in Peru, runs
Speaker 2: Giasy down there, and he's over in Rome now, but
Speaker 2: we all forget about him. So, you know, this guy
Speaker 2: kind of came out, not necessarily out of nowhere, but
Speaker 2: definitely not in any one's top five lists. And I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess we do live in the age of Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: I guess the Vatican worried about getting the tariff, so
Speaker 2: they bought American I don't know, but this is this
Speaker 2: is a you know, a tremendous earthquake and and a
Speaker 2: good thing, and a good thing like this is very exciting. Uh.
Speaker 2: The American Church is very strong, very vibrant. H you know,
Speaker 2: you go to particularly these churches that offer the Latin
Speaker 2: Mass that are much more closer to the tradition of
Speaker 2: what the church is always taught and always believed in,
Speaker 2: and they're very vibrant that there's young families with kids.
Speaker 2: I mean the church my wife and I go to
Speaker 2: with our our kid is like that. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of young kids there. You know, you're not seeing so
Speaker 2: many of the gray haired types you're see in some
Speaker 2: of these more like boomer churches that just sort of
Speaker 2: do let's feel good. So this is a good moment
Speaker 2: for that. Well, we'll have to see how he governs.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of question marks on that,
Speaker 2: but this is his first day on the chop that
Speaker 2: there are signs that people that are hoping for more
Speaker 2: of a return tradition could be excited about. And then
Speaker 2: there's other things that might cause a little bit of heartburn.
Speaker 2: But we'll just have to see. Let's get him the
Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt. He hasn't I mean, just been
Speaker 2: on the job for twenty four hours, So let's see
Speaker 2: what he can do.
Speaker 1: Michael McDonald, I'd look at some point. I guess he
Speaker 1: can't do it in the first year or two. But
Speaker 1: at some point Leo the fourteenth is going to tour America.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine when he comes here and you
Speaker 1: have a pope speak of the English so well, who
Speaker 1: was a white Sox fan in Chicago growing up, according
Speaker 1: to his brother. Of course, now the Cubs are claiming him.
Speaker 1: The Cubs have a sign up out of Wrigley Field.
Speaker 1: He's a Cubs fan, but his brother says, we grew
Speaker 1: up on the South Side as white Sox fans who
Speaker 1: spent like twenty years as a missionary in Peru. I
Speaker 1: completely lost touch with him. And then he's plucked down
Speaker 1: and may use the term obscurity by a pontiff to
Speaker 1: come eventually worked his way up from the bottom of
Speaker 1: Rome to picking the archbishops all around the world. And
Speaker 1: I would think from that circumstance, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the title was, but he was the guy advising the
Speaker 1: Pope Francis who to make an archbishop, including the new
Speaker 1: one we have here in Cincinnati from Chicago. And I
Speaker 1: would think he was uniquely qualified, but for the fact
Speaker 1: he was born in America and he was called the
Speaker 1: least American of the cardinal the cardinals, of all the
Speaker 1: cardinals here? Was that an insult or accomplishment?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Accomplishment accomplishment?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it depends on who you talk to
Speaker 2: in terms of the least American of the American titles.
Speaker 2: I think that's not necessarily a wrong take, but I
Speaker 2: do think that you know that there is something to
Speaker 2: be said, uh, particularly what we really needed, Uh, Pope Francis,
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to do like the cadavers in it
Speaker 2: back in the seven hundreds and when we're taking up
Speaker 2: the old pope to lambassed him. But some of his
Speaker 2: moral teachings were a little lacking in clarity, to be
Speaker 2: to be nice about it, he he kind of wondered
Speaker 2: sometimes about the people around him, if they if their
Speaker 2: hearts were in the right place. And yeah, uh, hopefully
Speaker 2: the fourteenth has a great story to tell. Uh. You know,
Speaker 2: he felt really called to do missionary work. He joined
Speaker 2: the Augustinians, which traces their lineage back to Saint Augustine
Speaker 2: back in antiquity. Uh. So this is an established order.
Speaker 2: The most are a lot smaller than they used to be.
Speaker 2: I mean probably the last big member that they had
Speaker 2: the people would be familiar with Martin Luther and we
Speaker 2: know how that turned out. But in terms of pop
Speaker 2: Leo the fourteenth himself as Cardinal Privos, he went down
Speaker 2: to Lima Dance Brew. He did a lot of missionary
Speaker 2: work in there, in remote villages up in the Andes. Uh.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's there's something nice to see, especially
Speaker 2: as a Catholic is someone that's deeply in love with
Speaker 2: their faith. I mean, yesterday he just stopped and said
Speaker 2: to Hail Mary, which is a good sign for traditionalists,
Speaker 2: a strong Marriyan devotions, something that you want to keep
Speaker 2: an eye out for. Uh. And So just in terms
Speaker 2: of love for the Church, love for Christ, he seems
Speaker 2: to be starting off on the right foot on that
Speaker 2: and sending a very strong message that that's going to
Speaker 2: be the center of his pontificate. And if you look
Speaker 2: at his first homily today, very strong on that issue
Speaker 2: as well, in which he's talking about the world needs
Speaker 2: to uh, the world needs the church really to bear
Speaker 2: witness to Christ. Christ is the son of God who
Speaker 2: came to earth to die and save us from sin.
Speaker 2: Not just this nice guy that said nice things and
Speaker 2: gave out little platitudes and had some fun sayings, but
Speaker 2: actually the pathway to salvation. And so I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot to be optimistic about.
Speaker 1: Well, each side wants to claim him your story that
Speaker 1: Bill Donnahues on the Catholic League website says that Orthodox
Speaker 1: Catholics will be happy to learn that Leo the fourteenth
Speaker 1: is strongly pro life. He opposes abortion, thank god, euthanasia
Speaker 1: assists at suicide. He also goes on to say he
Speaker 1: believes in property rights, which Marxists do not believe in.
Speaker 1: He's also made the case for private property, which is
Speaker 1: hardly an expression of socialism. He's also spoke about immigration
Speaker 1: in ways that gives a lot of comfort to shall
Speaker 1: I say, liberals, how do you explain him going after JD.
Speaker 1: Vance in a sense a couple months ago in what
Speaker 1: which the Cardinals said on X that quote JD Vance
Speaker 1: is wrong. Jesus does not ask us to rank our
Speaker 1: love for others quote unquote. Now, liberals thought, Okay, that's good,
Speaker 1: he's going after JD.
Speaker 2: Vance.
Speaker 1: Conservatives think, well, that's good, he's pro life, that healthy
Speaker 1: babies inside the bodies of healthy mothers should be allowed
Speaker 1: to live and not be killed in the womb. But
Speaker 1: as far as the issue of him kind of going
Speaker 1: after JD. Vance, your reaction to.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, that's that is especially as you know, we're
Speaker 2: just talking about him being in the Justinian That concept
Speaker 2: actually comes from sant Agustin that there is ranked love,
Speaker 2: so there is uh. Yeah, there's definitely some some concerns
Speaker 2: that politically he may not be on the same footing
Speaker 2: as JD. Vance. Okay, I understand that. I mean it's great.
Speaker 2: You know, we just had a Catholic president in this country,
Speaker 2: allegedly Catholic president that uh, there was a fortune he
Speaker 2: could justify. Okay, he pulled the rosary out of his
Speaker 2: pockets every once in a while, but couldn't I couldn't
Speaker 2: do anything, uh in scept with the actual teachings of
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church. So you know, it's nice to have actually,
Speaker 2: uh a person like JD. Vance uh as a Catholic
Speaker 2: to actually get up there and so actually the Catholic
Speaker 2: Church has these notions. They're ancient, but you know, we
Speaker 2: should practice him. And that's that's very refreshing to have
Speaker 2: somebody in public life that actually takes their faith seriously,
Speaker 2: uh and can speak to it with a high degree
Speaker 2: of authority. He just looked at the JD. Vance and
Speaker 2: he sounds like he knows what he's talking about because
Speaker 2: he does. Uh. That's that's that's a huge thing to have,
Speaker 2: particularly for lay people like, oh, look, here's somebody that
Speaker 2: isn't a priest that out there putting his faith into action,
Speaker 2: living it at daily and making that the backbone of
Speaker 2: his public policy. That's a great thing to see. And
Speaker 2: I would hope I would hope that you know, now
Speaker 2: that maybe the political climate has changed in Rome, we
Speaker 2: can look at these things a little bit more clearly,
Speaker 2: and so actually that would be a benefit to the
Speaker 2: church and people that are not ordained that are able
Speaker 2: to live out their faith and expressive faith, and maybe
Speaker 2: that brings more people to the faith, or at least
Speaker 2: inspire the people that are already in the faith to
Speaker 2: actively live out their faith.
Speaker 1: I would note that JD. Vance, who was non religious,
Speaker 1: converted to Catholicism at my charge Saint Gertrud's and Madera.
Speaker 1: He's practicing a Roman Catholic. Now, I would point out
Speaker 1: your article says quote is Popely of the fourteenth a Republican,
Speaker 1: a Democrat, or an independent. Well, he's a Republican, a
Speaker 1: registered Republican in Illinois, which is hard to be a
Speaker 1: Republican in Illinois. In Chicago. He pulled the Republican lever
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, twenty fourteen, twenty sixteen, apparently did not
Speaker 1: vote in the twenty sixteen but chose to vote by
Speaker 1: absentee in twenty twenty four It appears he's more of
Speaker 1: a Bush Republican than a Trump Republican. But he's certainly
Speaker 1: not woke or a Marxist activist, and so each side
Speaker 1: is pulling him. And I would imagine living in Italy,
Speaker 1: which is socialist, in Europe, extremely socialist. The poll is
Speaker 1: the gravitational poll is going to be to the left
Speaker 1: as opposed to the right. But the Christ is neither
Speaker 1: Democrat nor Republican, liberal nor conservative, left nor right, not
Speaker 1: blue nor red. He cares for all people all the time,
Speaker 1: and salvation is at the heart of what the Christ
Speaker 1: has preached, and so would. I would anticipate that. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine what happens in a year or two when
Speaker 1: he has stadium tours inside this country. What's going to happen.
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be the bigger than when
Speaker 2: Pope John Paul the Second THI over here now Saint
Speaker 2: Pope John Paul the second big I think it's I
Speaker 2: think it's gonna be bigger than that. Just you know,
Speaker 2: the Pochon Paul the Second, hugely charismatic figure. But it
Speaker 2: is something to be said about having a native son
Speaker 2: in the role of the papacy that that's just hugely inspirational.
Speaker 2: I think again, depending on, as we were talking about before,
Speaker 2: how closely he works in the tradition, and there are
Speaker 2: some things that do speak to him being a little
Speaker 2: bit more traditional. There's something speaking tom be a little
Speaker 2: bit more on the reformist side of the equation. But
Speaker 2: depending on how he plays that into Israela, let's see
Speaker 2: how that plays out. I think if you see somebody
Speaker 2: that is willing to let traditional Catholics express their love
Speaker 2: for Jesus the way that they have for centuries from millennia,
Speaker 2: I think then you see a massive outpouring of love
Speaker 2: and appreciation for the Pope, and you'll see a big outpouring.
Speaker 2: But again, you know I've been wrong before. I could
Speaker 2: be wrong again. Yes, and other stuff, but that's what
Speaker 2: I would like to see anyway. Maybe it's a wish
Speaker 2: guest thing.
Speaker 1: You know, Justice David Suitor died yesterday. It looks like
Speaker 1: many go in as conservatives to the Supreme Court to
Speaker 1: come out as liberals. I can't recall a circumstance where
Speaker 1: a liberal when in the US Supreme Court came out
Speaker 1: a conservative. Things only go one direction, and it would
Speaker 1: be amazing. But one great sentence or two you having
Speaker 1: your Catholic League column today, quote if some progressives who
Speaker 1: wanted Francis or a second are not expressing this main public,
Speaker 1: don't be fooled, is because they want to have entraded
Speaker 1: to the new pope. The left exists for one thing,
Speaker 1: power and they are masters are deceiving people that looks
Speaker 1: like practicing Roman Catholics today. Well, having Pope Leo the
Speaker 1: fourteenth someone they can rally around. And so those are
Speaker 1: your last comments, and I'm thinking, well, we'll see what
Speaker 1: happens in the future. But if this Pope stays firm,
Speaker 1: on life issues. If we can all agree that there's
Speaker 1: difficulties and pregnancies all the time, but can we at
Speaker 1: least agree that a healthy baby inside the body of
Speaker 1: a healthy mother should be born and the rest of
Speaker 1: it can be dealt with through special legislation or adoption,
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. And if he switches and allow
Speaker 1: women to become priest or or priest to marry, which
Speaker 1: wouldn't be as radical, then we're going to have issues.
Speaker 1: You don't see him breaking with tradition, do you, and
Speaker 1: having women become priest or somehow supporting abortion on demand.
Speaker 1: You don't see that happening. If that would happen, the
Speaker 1: Catholic Church would crumble.
Speaker 2: Yes. No, And you're right on that. And on terms
Speaker 2: of the Ordained Women ministry nonsense. He's actually been very
Speaker 2: vocal on that. In that you the Senate on citidelity
Speaker 2: last year, he did condemn that very vigorously. So that's
Speaker 2: a good sign on that front. And in terms of
Speaker 2: his American politics, you know, as far as you can
Speaker 2: map any sort of prelate of the Catholic Church into America,
Speaker 2: in politics, he has been very much on the pro
Speaker 2: life side of just about every single vote primary all
Speaker 2: these things, and he's spoken very forcefully in defensive life
Speaker 2: and just real quick bill fun little fact. Yes, on
Speaker 2: the US Supreme Court, you don't tend to see a
Speaker 2: lot of people moving from left to right. But interestingly enough,
Speaker 2: Pope Leo the thirteenth back in the eighteen hundreds was
Speaker 2: elected because the cardinals thought that Popious the ninth was
Speaker 2: too conservative. Let's get somebody in there that's a little
Speaker 2: bit more liberal minded. And he actually went even further
Speaker 2: to the right on a lot of issues than pop
Speaker 2: Pious and nine. So this does happen in the particularly
Speaker 2: in the church. Actually, Popious the ninth another one, was
Speaker 2: viewed as a liberal and then became much more conservative
Speaker 2: when he became pope. And Benedict the sixteenth another one.
Speaker 2: Some of his writings were not like super hardcore tread Catholic,
Speaker 2: but then when he became pope, he's like, you don't
Speaker 2: want to I'm bringing back the Latin mass. So just
Speaker 2: because we have a body of work, that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: mean that's how he's going to govern.
Speaker 1: Well, this is special time to be an American. We
Speaker 1: have the Olympics are here, the World Cup is here.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is here and the pope is here. I mean,
Speaker 1: if somebody had made that bet a few years ago,
Speaker 1: i'd bet against it. I don't see an American pope.
Speaker 1: He's the least American of all the cardinals in America,
Speaker 1: which I think is a criticism, not a compliment. But
Speaker 1: we'll see. But once again, Catholic League dodd org. Catholic
Speaker 1: League dot org, great columns up and we'll see what
Speaker 1: the next twenty years bring. And Michael, for the first
Speaker 1: time in my life, we have a pope that's younger
Speaker 1: than me. So that's that's remarkable. My sister died Rett.
Speaker 1: And because popes are old, and I'm thinking, well, hell,
Speaker 1: maybe i'm old. I'm not sure. You know, I'm seventy seven,
Speaker 1: but hell I feel like thirty seven most of the time.
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, I got a pope younger than me, so
Speaker 1: I know I'm getting old. But Michael McDonald Catholic League
Speaker 1: dot org is the website, great stuff. And once again,
Speaker 1: God bless Leo the fourteenth. He's got Pete Rose's number fourteen.
Speaker 1: There's that number again, fourteen, and that's another good sign.
Speaker 1: But we'll see what happens the next twenty years and
Speaker 1: Michael McDonald, Catholic League, thanks again for coming on the
Speaker 1: Bill Cunningham Show this Friday afternoon.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Thanks Bill, and you're a great American.
Speaker 1: God bless you. Let's continue with more. Look at my left.
Speaker 1: The proceedings with the fallen Deputy Henderson is preceding Spring
Speaker 1: Grove Cemetery, an extremely somber occasion. Let's continue with more.
Speaker 1: One twenty seven Home of your Reds, hopefully a win.
Speaker 1: A game tonight in Houston. Last night was awful. On
Speaker 1: news radio seven hundred WLW