WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:05.839 Hey, everyone. 2 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:08.679 We are recording at Halburn's Access Summit at the New 3 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:12.119 York Stock Exchange, and joining me is Rob Benke, who 4 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:15.359 is the co founder and executive chairman at Helburn. Rob. 5 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:17.640 Great to have you, Tony. Thanks for having me. 6 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.079 Yeah, it's great to be here at the Stock Exchange, 7 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:23.039 and you know, I'm really looking forward to the panels 8 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:25.519 and all the great discussions. I would love to kick 9 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:28.679 it off with your background. How did you end up 10 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:29.679 co founding Halburn? 11 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:31.440 Sure? 12 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:35.000 So, I mean, I definitely I think at this point 13 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:37.799 qualify as a serial entrepreneur. I've built a couple of 14 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:41.479 smaller companies before in completely different world. 15 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:44.000 So right out of college I actually. 16 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:48.799 Started an organic food company, a salsa company actually, And 17 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:51.960 surely as we were sort of winding that down. This 18 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:55.280 was back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, so at the 19 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:59.079 height of my CpG experience, we're in about ten thousand 20 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:03.640 grocery stores around world, and then you know, it's just 21 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:05.680 kind of it's a really tough industry to be in. 22 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:09.359 But around that time in twenty thirteen, as we were 23 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:11.760 winding that company down, a friend of mine told me 24 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:13.760 about this thing called bitcoin, and I said, oh, that's 25 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:15.879 funny that scam. You know, what are you talking about? 26 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.719 Like that PONDSI or whatever. And I went down the 27 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:22.879 rabbit hole. And so my exceptionally tiny claim to fame 28 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:27.959 in that moment was, you know, I'm I'm I'm always 29 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:30.239 about learning. I'm constantly learning. The way that I actually 30 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:32.719 learned the best is typically through audio. So I'm a 31 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:36.120 musician as a as a fun hobby. I've always been, 32 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:38.640 you know, playing drums and electronic music and such and 33 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:41.959 playing that. And so when I fell in love with bitcoin, 34 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.719 there was no audiobook. So I actually created the Bitcoin 35 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:49.000 White Paper audiobook that's on YouTube. And so that was 36 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.159 in like late twenty thirteen that I launched that thing. 37 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:54.280 So I've been really into this space for a while now, 38 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:59.560 and you know, had another company, had other jobs throughout 39 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:05.120 the way, and then in twenty seventeen, you know, got 40 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:07.359 you know, was part of sort of the Ico madness 41 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.560 that was going on in that moment, and uh so 42 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:14.560 I started a growth hacking and sort of growth marketing 43 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:16.879 agency at the time, and then so that that company 44 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:20.400 was called Token Agency. That was a wild moment where 45 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:22.240 a couple of things happened there. So, first of all, 46 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:23.400 that was my first real. 47 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:24.080 Taste of success. 48 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.879 I was able to bootstrap marketing agency to eight figures 49 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.439 in revenue on one hundred percent of it and just sort. 50 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:31.159 Of grew it that way. 51 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:37.120 And throughout that time one of the big projects we 52 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:40.479 were working with was so think about this. Twenty seventeen, 53 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.159 I was working with the former Commissioner of the CFTC 54 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:48.080 on an asset back stable coin wow wild stuff. Shockingly, 55 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:51.000 it didn't end up launching because of all the obvious 56 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:54.080 reasons right, way too early and timing is everything right, 57 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.000 But what happened was throughout twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, 58 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:03.120 I noticed that very big trend, which was, as much 59 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:08.159 as we love this technology for what it's able to enable, 60 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:13.240 all the all the concepts that that tokenizing things can 61 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:18.479 can bring about, every single one of my clients kept 62 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:21.400 getting hacked. And it wasn't just one thing, it was 63 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.120 just it was a myriad of different things. So of 64 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:26.159 course there was a you know, oh we launched this 65 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:29.199 big project end boom, No we don't, because you know, 66 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:32.919 the smart contract gets hacked or you know, just just 67 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:36.439 pure social engineering, right, Like you know, one of my 68 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:39.639 clients they just got, you know, an invoice from a 69 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:43.280 vendor to change their bank details. They send one hundred 70 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:46.520 thousand dollars to you know who knows where, And so 71 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:48.599 it just happened left and right, and I realized that 72 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:56.639 if if code equals money, well hold on. The only 73 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:00.199 thing that matters in order to actually make this thing 74 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:04.360 take off is cybersecurity and making sure that folks can 75 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:05.759 sort of stay safe out there. 76 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:08.479 And so it's just left, right and center. 77 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:11.080 So what happened was, uh, put a call out to 78 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:14.039 my network, met a friend of a friend. That friend 79 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:17.240 of a friend is my now co founder, Steve Wallbrough. 80 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.959 Turns out he is a world renowned ethical hacker. He's 81 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.120 known as a Sans Fellow. So in this sort of 82 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.439 group of you know, the Sands, one of the largest 83 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:33.079 you know, uh, technical educators in the world for cybersecurity. 84 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:35.040 He's one of the guys that has what's called the 85 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.480 one coin, So it just means that he's gotten every 86 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.079 single training session and sort of the height of every single. 87 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:42.759 Training session there. 88 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:47.160 And when I met him, his penetration his team had 89 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.480 just won one of the largest penetration testing hackathons in 90 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:51.720 the world called NetWars. 91 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:53.240 So he's a first place run. 92 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:55.959 So I meet this guy and he just has all 93 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.680 these accolades, and I'm like, okay, Like, first of all, 94 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:00.800 I don't think that this guy's real, you know, I'm like, 95 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:02.800 all right, this can't be this can't be real. So 96 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:07.079 end up meeting Steve turns out, you know, certainly real, 97 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:09.720 and we we realized. So I brought him in on 98 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:13.879 a couple engagements with my clients and so as a 99 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.279 marketing agency, the idea was, let's spin off a different 100 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.639 branch and let's you know, let's do a cyber branch 101 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:25.160 and we'll call it Token Hackers. Wow, best worst name ever, Like, 102 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:28.680 truly truly incredible. So throughout the year of twenty eighteen 103 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:32.199 and nineteen, I realized a couple of things. First of all, 104 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:35.279 you know, if you want to go, if you want 105 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:36.839 to go fast, go go alone. If you want to 106 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.399 go far, go you know together. So Steve and I 107 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.560 vibed really well. We're sort of a Yinging Yang scenario 108 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.600 where he's good at other things that I'm not. 109 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:48.920 So we teamed up. 110 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:52.079 We actually built two companies at the same time, and 111 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:55.319 then COVID hit So like the moment that lockdown happens. 112 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:58.079 We're working on two different things. So the first was 113 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:03.199 what we then rebranded to Halborn, and funny enough, the 114 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.920 second one was a fashion aggregation site, which I still think. 115 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:07.399 Is a great idea. 116 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:09.560 You know, you got to get the real realm, Poshmark 117 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.639 and eBay and aggregate that all together so you can 118 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:16.319 get some you know, pre owned fashion. Anyway, but the 119 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.399 moment that Covid hit Halborne signed, it's very first customer. 120 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.399 And it's fitting that we're talking about this today because 121 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:26.920 that first customer was Nicey was the New York Stock Exchange. 122 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:27.319 So at the. 123 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:32.959 Time, at the time backed bakkt was a division of 124 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:35.240 the New York Stock Exchange. You know, they were like 125 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:38.160 the big name, right, So we had an opportunity. I said, 126 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:40.079 put us in coach, like you know. It took us 127 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:43.279 months and months and months of red tape as a 128 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:47.000 two person shop to like get all the paperwork ready. 129 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.720 And yeah, so we did our first pen test, you know, 130 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:54.079 back then, and then I had a conversation with Steve. 131 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:55.639 I said, look, I'm going to go and I'm going 132 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.160 to sell so many deals this back in twenty twenty. 133 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:00.000 I'm going to sell so many deals, you're going to 134 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:01.639 quit all your jobs and we're gonna have to make 135 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:02.680 Calburn a full time thing. 136 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:06.160 And that happened all in the year twenty twenty and 137 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:09.160 so it's been kind of crazy. 138 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:12.959 So, like you know, twenty twenty, by by the end 139 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:18.319 of twenty twenty one, we were completely bootstrapped, never raised 140 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:20.639 a single dollar for the company, and had seventy full 141 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:21.360 time employees. 142 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:23.879 Wow. So it just goes to show. 143 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:25.800 You kind of like, you know, I think timing is 144 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.160 everything as well too, Right, So we didn't know, DeFi 145 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.360 summer was happening in that time, but it was happening 146 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:31.199 during that time, right. 147 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:34.920 That's that's an incredible journey. And to have your first 148 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:37.240 client being backed, I mean, that's amazing. 149 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:37.720 Yeah. 150 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:39.959 I kind of realized, you know, in when I was 151 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.680 when I had the marketing agency, I put feelers out. 152 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.199 I talked to all of our would be Halborne competitors 153 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:47.480 in that time, because I you know, they weren't competitive 154 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:50.399 with me at the time. And I realized immediately that 155 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:52.160 no one knows what the hell they're doing, and if 156 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.399 they do know what they're doing, they're very focused on 157 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:57.720 like one specific part, but don't look at the forest 158 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:00.519 through the trees, right, and that was the market. I 159 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:04.560 was like, okay, well, what if we focus on holistic 160 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.120 security practice all of the things that can go wrong 161 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.040 on chain, but all the things that can go wrong 162 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.879 off chain. We saw so many hacks happening over the 163 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:15.560 last couple of years that have nothing. 164 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:16.519 To do with smart contracts. 165 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.360 In fact, in a recent Holborn report that we put out, 166 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.800 over forty percent of the top hacks that have happened 167 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:24.959 in the space have nothing to do with smart contracts. 168 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:27.079 So if you're just doing smart contract. 169 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.519 On its all day, that doesn't get that doesn't get 170 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.879 you secure, that doesn't stay safe. And so that's what 171 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:36.039 we've been building towards ever since. You know, and what 172 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:41.159 I would say is through that founding journey, when when 173 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.480 the nicey is your first customer, I think we had 174 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:49.919 a really big opportunity to say, Okay, I think that 175 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:55.919 blockchain technology in tokenization is going to come. I think 176 00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:01.480 that we're going to completely transform financial services and we 177 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:03.840 need to be sort of ahead of that and take 178 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.320 those steps. And so you know, it's it's very public now, 179 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:09.759 so you know, I can talk about it, but you know, 180 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.200 even back as far back as twenty twenty one. We 181 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:13.759 were working with like B and Y Mellon and a 182 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:17.120 couple of other larger financial institutions on you know, a 183 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:18.720 number of different initiatives that they. 184 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:19.320 Were trying to do. 185 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:25.000 And so what I did was kind of an unconventional thing, 186 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:27.240 which is, you know, I'm I'm I'm the Web three 187 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:30.240 native in the group. I actually went out and we 188 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:34.039 hired a CEO. So I went out and we hired 189 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:36.240 Jacques Boujeong, who you know, I think you'll talk with 190 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.360 soon enough, and he's our CEO over at Halborn. I 191 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:43.519 transitioned into executive chairman, and I've been you know, I 192 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:47.840 haven't stopped, like I'm I'm still knee deep and everything 193 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:50.240 that we're working on over at Halborne, and it's just 194 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:52.759 been really exciting to can you continue to sort of 195 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:55.159 ride the momentum and ride the growth that we've seen. 196 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:57.960 Tell us a bit about the services that you provide 197 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.679 and how institutions are leveraging. You mentioned smart contracts, but 198 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.720 there are other avenues like social engineering and things like that. 199 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:07.919 Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you know, look, I think for 200 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.799 better or for worse, we get lumped into the smart 201 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.519 contract auditor sort of you. 202 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:15.000 Know, barriers there, right. 203 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.639 The reality is that since day one we've been focused 204 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.279 on what is called assurance works, is security assurance work, 205 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.200 which is really this world of pen testing, manual code reviewing, 206 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.559 and if it's on chain, yeah it's a smart contract, 207 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:30.320 or it's an L one, or it's an L two. 208 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:34.639 And I think, you know, by us being a purely 209 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:39.240 sort of ethical hacking operation, that's been able to bring 210 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:42.639 additional sort of expansion opportunities, and we want to do 211 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:45.480 that in the right sort of way. And what we 212 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.159 realized is a lot of the financial institutions we were 213 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.840 working with, you know, great Halborn, Yeah, yeah, you can 214 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.080 pen test what we're about to launch and so forth, 215 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.679 so on, but we're years out from that, like we're not. 216 00:10:58.759 --> 00:10:59.519 Ready for it yet. 217 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.279 So about two years ago we spun up an advisory 218 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.639 practice and we said, okay, well we are the experts 219 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:08.080 in the space, like we've built custody solutions, we know 220 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:10.960 what to look out for, we know more about stable 221 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.679 coins than most. So we spun up an advisory practice 222 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.559 so when you start building, like, we're here to help. 223 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.159 When you start to think about a buy verse build. 224 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:24.080 Analysis, should I should. 225 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:26.799 I go and get my infrastructure done by fire blocks? 226 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:29.879 Or should I build my own home cooked thing? These 227 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:32.360 are the things that we help customers with. So our 228 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:36.440 advisory practice, we grew four hundred percent last year just 229 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.679 in that division, you know, and look it's a big number, 230 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:41.240 but it was also it was a small It was 231 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.519 small the year before, and now it's much more sizable, 232 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:47.679 more material now. And so that's really the division of 233 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:51.960 we do advisory and we do assurance. And so what 234 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.519 that goes to show you is as early as you 235 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:59.840 start to think about building in custody or stable coins 236 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:05.080 or tokenization into your financial services, you know, company like 237 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:08.000 we're here to help along that way. And I would 238 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.159 say that the alpha that you can go ahead and 239 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.600 drop on this podcast that we haven't really talked about 240 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.600 is that throughout the course of the last year or so, 241 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:20.039 we you know, since the beginning, we've had a lab's division, 242 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:24.919 a technology division, And I think that what's exciting is 243 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.759 that throughout the sort of chewing glass and the sort 244 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.600 of like running into roadblocks and Okay, this isn't working, 245 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:35.440 this isn't working, the last six months, something clicked and 246 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:37.759 it clicked in a really big way, and so we 247 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.360 will have a automated code review product out to market 248 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.679 by the end of this year, and we're pretty quiet 249 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.879 about it. I don't mind telling you about it or 250 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:49.600 telling the world a little bit here about it, but 251 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:52.120 you know, you won't see the marketing team talking about 252 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.600 it too much. And that's because our internal team is 253 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.320 starting to utilize it. There's never any. 254 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:02.159 World where AI takes over one. 255 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:07.320 Hundred percent of anything, but the human hybrid of you know, 256 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:10.919 here's this piece of technology, here's the human component is 257 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:15.240 what will always be our secret sauce. And yeah, I mean, 258 00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:17.960 so we're really excited about launching and building throughout that, 259 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.039 and we've been picking up a lot of pilot customers 260 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:22.720 along the way there. 261 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:26.240 And I'm assuming demand has risen incredibly with so many 262 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:28.879 institutions getting involved with crypto. I mean, you go down 263 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:32.000 the Wall Street List right, Black Rock and many others. 264 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.240 So are you seeing a lot of demand on that front? 265 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:39.840 I mean, in twenty twenty three, I would say that 266 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:43.919 it was a tough moment for probably the industry too. 267 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:45.519 But it was a tough moment for me to go 268 00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:48.320 to my board and basically be like, hey, look, we're 269 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.559 only going to focus on financial institutions, we're going to 270 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.559 be the Web three company, web three security company that 271 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:57.799 doesn't focus on Web three security. 272 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:01.679 And it's like, what do you mean. So it's like, well, 273 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:02.720 we're only. 274 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:06.000 Going to help financial services companies enable to the next 275 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:10.120 digital transformation. So it's like, you know, like IBM, for example, 276 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.519 considers digital transformation to be sort of like the you know, 277 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:15.919 cloud is what people mostly think of, but then it's 278 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:21.080 also AI and blockchain. So as financial institutions start to 279 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:24.480 realize the power of tokenization, which it seems like they 280 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.919 are now, you know, this is a thesis that we 281 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:32.159 think is the long tail right call. And you know, 282 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:36.720 this is where you know, I would say three years ago, 283 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:40.399 our enterprise business was two percent of all of Halborn. 284 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:41.960 Today it's thirty percent. 285 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.879 Wow, and we expect it to be you know, a 286 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:49.159 majority of the business this year. And we're and and 287 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:51.720 so you know, we're really excited. We're six years into 288 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:55.720 building out this company. In many ways, I think we're 289 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:58.600 just getting started. So yeah, you know, it's it's a 290 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:02.080 really exciting time. And yeah, to specifically answer your question, 291 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.200 I mean, the institutions are coming, They're all here, and 292 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.679 that's why that's why we threw That's why we put 293 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:12.159 together Access frankly, right, you know, like is this you 294 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:15.679 know it started off as positioning and then turned into reality. 295 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:17.399 You know, it's it's about. 296 00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:20.000 Positioning us and continuing. 297 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.080 To be sort of a you know, a thought leader 298 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:25.720 in how financial services gets through this digital transformation. 299 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.200 And the digital transformation is going to take. 300 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:30.399 A decade two decades to still keep happening, so we 301 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:31.799 want to be the ones to enable that. 302 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:35.799 So, speaking of adoption, we have the Crypto Market Structure 303 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.159 bill that's currently in the Senate is expected to potentially 304 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.399 pass this year, maybe later this quarter or early Q two. 305 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:45.440 What do you think the impact will be of that 306 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:46.039 bill passing? 307 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:49.960 Will accelerate the adoption, Yes, it will accelerate the adoption. 308 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:53.080 I think that there's a bunch of you know, there's just. 309 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.480 Trillions of dollars of capital and the sidelines kind of 310 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:59.399 waiting for regulatory clarity. You know, of course it's you 311 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:03.000 know in it a clarity act is good branding, you know, 312 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:06.559 you know, it's definitely good branding. I think that the 313 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.919 devil will be in the details. And you know where 314 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:14.080 we're at today filming this this interview, there's a lot 315 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.080 of uncertainty as to when and how and what it 316 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:19.360 looks like. So again, the devil is going to be 317 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.799 in the details, right, So we'll say, and and look, 318 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.360 whether it takes another year or two to actually happen. 319 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.279 I don't think that part necessarily matters for what we're 320 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:36.279 building towards at Halborne. But will continued regulatory clarity help 321 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:40.440 further the industry, Yes, in a in an incredible way. 322 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:45.399 I think the Genius Act was so necessary. Uh, it 323 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.399 was really exciting to actually get that bill passed through Congress, 324 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:53.840 and it's it became a bill, right right, And so 325 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.879 that's why you see so much stable coin technology taking 326 00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.039 off right now. So you can only imagine with clarity 327 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.440 it kind of cover everything else. Of course, it covers 328 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:05.160 you know, stable coin yield, and that's that's the that's big, 329 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.960 that's the big spicy topic, right. So I can't weigh 330 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.400 in as to where where you know, where that pendulum 331 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.119 is gonna swing. I have my suspicions that the banks 332 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:17.200 are probably gonna win out, but I don't think. 333 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.880 That that's a very spicy take. But we'll say, you know. 334 00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:24.000 Yeah, yeah, it's an exciting time and you know, I've 335 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:26.759 been here since twenty sixteen, and I remember twenty twenty 336 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:29.039 two into twenty twenty three being a rough time. We 337 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.640 were talking before the recording, I thought of potentially leaving 338 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.599 the industry. But things have turned, you know, done. 339 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.319 A one eighty not that you're sticking around. 340 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:38.839 Yeah, it's so exciting, and I feel folks are heads 341 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.400 down building, they're not worried anymore, and it's just a 342 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.880 good time. There's great momentum. 343 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:46.079 Yeah, there's a there's an incredible amount of momentum. I 344 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:49.039 mean that moment in twenty two and twenty three was 345 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:50.960 was was pretty incredible in a lot of ways. 346 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:54.240 I mean, look, I don't mind. 347 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.519 I don't mind even I talk about it privately, I 348 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:58.759 don't mind talking about it publicly. You know, Tara Luna 349 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:01.960 was twenty percent of Holborn business in twenty two. You know, 350 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:04.240 there was a lot of people in the web three 351 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:05.839 space that were very bullish. 352 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:06.440 On that concept. 353 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:09.640 Turns out they never had a security issue. It turns 354 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:13.799 out their economics were wacky. Yeah, you know, so you know, 355 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.720 so that was definitely you know, more of a like 356 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:22.200 a crazy moment, but you know, we but but it 357 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.960 also shows you sort of the world of security, how 358 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:26.960 necessary it is. 359 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:29.359 It just shows you sort of the. 360 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:36.720 Resiliency that this industry will continue to remain. Now momentum 361 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:41.480 is interesting as well. So I've been having some conversations 362 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.799 with some folks in the industry about whether or not 363 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:51.640 the last ten years of all of this decentralized building, 364 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.599 all the VC dollars, the billions of billions of dollars 365 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:59.440 that have been poured into VC and startups, whether or 366 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.200 not you know, the big banks are basically just taking 367 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:05.279 it and running with it. You know, the real value 368 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:08.039 a crew, you know, a cruel is probably going to 369 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:10.480 be coming from the Black Rocks and the JP Morgans 370 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:13.119 of the world, because they're going to take these open source, 371 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.079 you know, code bases and use them. 372 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.400 For for what they're what they're what they are for. 373 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.720 And I don't have an opinion as to whether or 374 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.400 not that's good or bad. I just think it's an 375 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:28.400 observation of where things are and also sort of how 376 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:33.880 things have always been. So, you know, we're we're excited 377 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:39.119 by the momentum of how banks are accepting of this technology. Obviously, 378 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.839 there's also quantum and AI sort of involved throughout throughout 379 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.599 all those threads. But finally we get to a point 380 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:51.799 where twenty four to seven trading is about to be enabled. Yes, 381 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.519 you know, NASTAC announce that'll be twenty four to five 382 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:59.759 right away, right, instant settlement, you know, T zero you know, 383 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.880 and programmable money, smart contracts like these are the things 384 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.400 that we've been talking about for the last decade. Yes, 385 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.119 like oh you know, this is this is you know, 386 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.799 why why can't I send a USDC over to someone 387 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.599 in Argentina like that, you know, instantly? Like why hasn't 388 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:22.599 that taken off? Where we're at today in twenty twenty 389 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:27.160 six is we're here at Access Summit Western Union and 390 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:28.119 Swifter in the audience. 391 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:30.799 Yeah, crazy, incredible, incredible. 392 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:34.079 Yeah, you know, going into this year and we're already 393 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:37.440 you know, middle of January here, what would you say 394 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.440 are to top three threats from a security standpoint for 395 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:44.000 institutions participating in crypto? And I know that can fluctuate 396 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:46.960 an EBB and flow, but oh boy, yeah. 397 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.440 That's a big one. Top three threats. 398 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:53.400 So what I've learned being in the security industry now 399 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:58.400 is the biggest threat of every organization are humans? 400 00:20:59.279 --> 00:20:59.640 People? 401 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.920