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Speaker 1: Arrow dot net. It's more than just a podcast. It

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is a podcast network, over twenty different podcasts to choose from.

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I don't know about you, but when I get in

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the car or get in the office and I want

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to listen to a podcast, it has to be about

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something I want to listen to, and that person doesn't

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choose it. Ooh, well, that's what ero dot net is

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all about, such as be on the calling, foody Paradise,

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the voice, vocal, d frag, the choice. There's so much

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to choose from aro dot net. A R R O

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E dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Hi Trevor, how are

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you doing today? And please as we start begin the

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process of sharing your inside of this retribution, because in

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order to put this book together, you had to have

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lived it. Because it feels like that you've invited me

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over for a conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sir at what was an interesting process? You know,

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most of the literary stuff. I have a co writer,

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Jim D. Felice, real professional, So what's out him? You know,

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I don't know if it would be be elegible.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that when when it comes to

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having that person at your side, when it comes to creativity, that.

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I mean, that's that's trust, that's hope, that's actually you know,

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relinquishing control. I have problems with that. How were you

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able to deal with that? Because it's like you want

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to do what, Okay, give me a chance to you know,

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to iron this out with my writing. Let me figure

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this out. How did you deal with it?

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Speaker 2: That's you know, I feel the same exact way as

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you do. I like to have, you know, that control

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of I think, you know, part of it was just

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that Jim was just like such an open, honest, like

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relaxed guy that it was kind of just easier to say,

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you know, when he would say okay, and I want

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to write it like this, and I go, you know, no,

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like I don't like how that sounds. He's kind of like, well, look,

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this is a book. You're not going to just be

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telling everyone like you would talk to like your best

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friends at home, you know, and like this is for

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an audience which is going to read this as a book.

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And so it was easier to kind of compromise with

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Jim on those sorts of things. And you know, luckily

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I had him on my side to kind of, you know,

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argue back and forth with the publisher about certain stuff.

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Speaker 1: US Marines fight for justice. This inspires me so deep

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inside my soul because it means that you did not

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give your voice away. You still have your voice, You

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still have your your your determination, your perseverance, and that

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you knew that you needed to make a difference. And

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it grew from that inside self. What was it like

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to shake hands with that intercore that's going, Uh, Trevor,

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We're not done yet. We've got it. We've got We've

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got to create a wave here. Uh.

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Speaker 2: You know, as far as as the Ukraine part of

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it goes, I felt like I had to go there,

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first of all, just so I could be myself again,

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and then second of all to help the Ukrainian people.

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As far as writing the book goes, that wasn't my idea.

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My parents really wanted me to do that, and I

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told them, you know, just hostage diplomacy isn't something that

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a lot of Americans care about, and I didn't think

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that they would be very interested. And my parents said, well,

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maybe not, but they're going to be interested because of

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the revenge aspect in the Ukraine part of it. Afterwards,

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you you know, going back to fight the Russians and

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they'll read it because of that. But in the process,

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you know, they'll learn about hostage diplomacy, what wrongful detainees

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and hostages go through in their families. And so they

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kind of they kind of guilt tripped me into it

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and said, basically, you know, I have a chain as

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to help people and if I don't, if I don't

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do this, then you know, I'll be kind of abandoning mom.

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So that worked and I felt that I had too.

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Speaker 1: How did you deal with that moment of going into

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Ukraine and the reason why? And this really hits my

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soul in the way that because of what I studied

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as a martial artist, where my SOBNYM sat down with

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me and he would he would try to get into

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my thought process as an activator. And then and then

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it took the Grand Master to come in from South

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Korea to come in and talk to me. How because

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they would sit there that would say, I understand where

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you are, but what is the repercussion of what you

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want to accomplish? How did you deal with that personally?

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Knowing when you stepped inside Ukraine, what was your journey

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and what was the purpose in the plan.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really have such a defined plan. I knew,

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I knew that I was going to go to Ukraine

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as soon as I found out that Russia had invaded

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did Ukraine. I knew what the Ukrainians must be going through,

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and I knew, you know, that I had the training

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and the experience to help them from the Marine Corps contracting.

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So I ended up going out to Ukraine and meeting

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my former team leader from Afghanistan, and he had already

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been part of a unit I went out there. Eventually

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went to a different unit where I met the guys

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on Rogue Team who would become my teammates, and you know,

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we started conducting combat operations I think a day or

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two days after I got to that unit, and continued

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to do that for months until you know, finally I

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was wounded at the end of our final operation.

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Speaker 1: What I love about this, Trevor, is that for the

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past two to three years, I have sat with more

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people in the military and those on the outside that

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have served as humanitarians, and I said, how many of

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our men and women are over there tight lipped? Everybody's

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been tight lipped. You I don't think you understand how

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much of a blessing it is that you are here

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with me right now because I've dedicated so much of

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my time to get the word out of Ukraine of

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people from America that are going over there to help

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them out. I mean, Ben Doucing, I've been with, I've

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been with with Joe across the street, Linsley, who's done

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things I mean. And now I've got you, and it's

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like we can pull from you, and we learned from

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you and that that really this is a humanitarian thing.

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And your book opens up our hearts to say, my god,

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we can make a difference, because they did.

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Speaker 2: I hope. So you know, that's the message that I

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wanted to to send us. You know, if you're you're

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an American, there's always something you can do. So my

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parents' campaign to get me out of there, everything that

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they did, you know, all other Americans can also do

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that if they're family members are unfully detained or held hostage.

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You know, with Ukraine, obviously, I don't think I don't

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think that everyone should just be going and taking up

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a rifle and going and fighting in Ukraine. But you know,

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each each person can help in their own their own way,

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and it really really can make a difference. And part

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of writing that book was, you know, in addition to

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showing people what my family did, I also wanted to

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show them what the foreign fighters and the Americans who

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are fighting in Ukraine, you know, go through over there,

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and just their their courage and their bravery because every day,

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even though they are in my friends, you know, I

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would look at the guys and just just see heroes.

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Speaker 1: Well, listeners need to understand that you went through a

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process before you even went into Ukraine. I mean, you

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have the arrest day in Russia. How did you mentally

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handle that? Because I know how we're trained as martial artists,

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how to go into a moment of silence or meditation

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or to calm down the senses. How did you keep

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your wild imagination and maybe fear under control.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's exactly kind of how you described martial arts.

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I'm a martial artist. Also where I was I did

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wrestling in judo for about nine years, ten years, mixed

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martial arts for a year, and then the rink where

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I was a rink where martial arts instructor and it's

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very similar. So you go kind of into this internal

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space and then you have to find something to focus

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on to drive you, you know, throughout the rest of

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that fight, that engagement, whatever it does. And you know

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the way I did that is I focused on resistance

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so that you know, I made that My whole soul

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was I'm going to create as many problems in here

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and make this as difficult as possible for the Russians

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as I can. And I just focused on that and

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made that eventually, you know, part of my my sole

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existence for being basically Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is that I find inspiring about that

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is that you can still use that tool today in

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everything that you're doing today. You pull from that treasure

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chest of experience and you're able to piece things together.

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Whereas most people might say, ah, I'll get around to

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that next week, but when it comes to you, Trevor,

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it's saying we're going to get to it now, we're

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going to deal with it now, we're going to grow forward,

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and we're not going to sit here and basically become

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stool pigeons.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I think anyone, you know, I want to

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be clear about that too. I think anyone can take,

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you know, these kind of techniques that I used in

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Russia and Ukraine and apply those two completely different situations

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just in their regular life. I hope that no one

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listening to this as ever going to be in a

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Russian gulag or in frontline combat in Ukraine. But you

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can take that mindset and apply that to almost anything.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Trevor Reid coming

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up next the name of his book Retribution, A US

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Marines Fight for Justice. We are back with Trevor Reid.

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One wrong step though that did you have to remind

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you of that? Because dude, I talk to myself. I'll

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sit there and call myself out in a heartbeat. And

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so when you put yourself in a position of making

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that decision to take a step, I mean, the wrong

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step would be a fifty to fifty choice, would it not?

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Speaker 2: Be? Sure? Yeah? And you know I did have those

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thoughts occasionally in combat where I would be like, wow,

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you know I can sure I wanted to be here.

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But it just comes down to, you know, in those

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moments of stress that caused you to doubt yourself, you

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have to think back to everything else that's happened before

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that in your past and then just focused on finding

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that feeling and bringing it back.

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Speaker 1: What did you learn from that? Because I mean, all

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of a sudden, it's almost like the universe said, Trevor,

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You've done such a fine job, but I need you

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to become even a stronger student and leader because I'm

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gonna need you up here. You don't see it yet,

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but you're going to when you get there.

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Speaker 2: What I learned from it, I guess I would say, is,

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you know, one of the things, right, even being in

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solitary confinement for months and months and months at a time,

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one thing that experience taught me is even though you

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may be alone, you're not really alone. And another thing

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something about you know, the Russian part of the experience

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taught me was sometimes you can use your weaknesses to

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your advantage and use you know, your enemy strengths against them.

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I like to think of it, you know, in a

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martial arts context of you know, with judo, right, you

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have a guy that's a lot bigger than you, a

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lot stronger bull rushing you, right, and you can just

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throw him with a toemonagu and then just kind of

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use his momentum to throw him with his own weight.

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And so you know, when it comes to life and

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my experience in Russia, I found that that was largely

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the same. So Russia had this brutal system out there,

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crossing you US, but I was also able to use

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that brutality and show the world like, hey, you know,

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this is what Russia is like and sort of turn

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that against them. So just little things like that that

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you think your weaknesses, you can always take those and

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turn those into strengths.

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Speaker 1: Interesting that you bring it up, because so many times

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many of us have been convinced through propaganda as to

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this is what the picture looks like overseas, and all

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of a sudden, here comes your book retribution, and I'm going, oh,

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this is an authentic photograph of what we should expect

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to see, because I mean, you're you're giving us the

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real deal and and the stuff that we assumed, Oh

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it's real. It's real because you're talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, there's there's a lot of misunderstandings about

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the war, there, things that are going on. Russia is

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very very good at propaganda. That's maybe, you know, one

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of the few things that Russia really excels at. And

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unfortunately a lot of that has made its way to

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the US, and you know, in our social media sphere

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and a lot of people don't know you know, so

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they'll see their friends reposting whatever it is and think, oh,

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you know, like this must be true. But you know,

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you have to understand that Russia has a whole part

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of their government, a large part of their government, which

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is dedicated specifically to trying to elicit that response. They

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want that propaganda to reach our social media, reach your friends,

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you to see it, you to believe it, and then

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you think, oh, well, you know, I don't why do

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I care about Ukraine? Why do I care about this guy?

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So it's important to just always consider the source of

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where those things are coming from. Sometimes they're a lot

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more nefarious than you think.

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Speaker 1: Your path, your journey, your decision was in a moment

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where I'm sure you felt inside your heart I wish

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this would hurry up and get over with. We all

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complained about how fast time is flying. Was it flying

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for you or were you sitting there trying to figure

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out how to put fuel into time so you could

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get through it as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit of both. So some of the

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time there seemed like it did fly by pretty quick.

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But you know, I'll just say, when you're in those moments,

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when you're living out when you're wrongfully detained in a

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foreign country. Every day that you're in there is like

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a year long. I mean, sis, I've never had, you know,

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anything comparable to that in my life, but it's every

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day as an entire eternity. And after talking to my family,

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I've realized that, you know, it was probably two eternities

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for that.

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Speaker 1: Being right there at the Russian gulag. We're talking about,

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you know, a system of forced labor camps, correctional colonies,

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a transit prison. Now, is it one of those situations

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where you've got to put focus on your breathing because

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as that martial artist, it's how they're breathing that determines

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if you're going to win the jiu jitsu match, because

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if when they're when they're breathing folds, that's your open

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door to get out. Is that what you felt in

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your moment where you said this is it go now,

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make it move now?

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Speaker 2: It was more of a slayer process really than that.

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But I mean, the overall it is kind of it

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is kind of like you know, you're fighting or you're

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wrestling or grappling. It is this long, you know process.

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But there are certain parts where you know you need

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to kind of take that energy and then use that

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to your advantage in those moments, and then there's other

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moments where it's like, Okay, now I need to you know,

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slow it down, control my breathing, get my composure, and

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then just survive, you know, to just ride out that

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last minute or whatever it does. So I think it depends.

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It's a lot. It's a lot like a match. You know,

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there's periods where where you need, you know, to to

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give everything you have, you need to go in there

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and shoot, you know, a million takedowns and try to

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attack the guy. And then there's there's periods where it's like,

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all right, I'm going to try to install this out

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for the last minute.

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Speaker 1: I love the way that you use a quote from

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Patrick Henry to start the book because that really sets

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the tone and every person that reads this is going

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to go, yeah, now I get the journey that we're

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going to be taking a walk on. I mean, it

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was so fitting. When did you decide to use this

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quote from Patrick.

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Speaker 2: That was almost there at the very end. So my

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care writer, yeah, my care writer Jim wanted to put

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some kind of quote about retribution in there. And I

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was like, no, man, you know, because this doesn't that

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doesn't really capture what this was. I mean, retribution was

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a big aspect of it, but it was a lot

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more than that. And he said, you know, you're right.

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I get that the book is called Retribution, so I

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get it. But you know, so then whenever he came

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to me with that quote, I was like, Okay, this,

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you know, this is what it is. It's about, you know,

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giving everything you have, live or die to be to

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be a free man. And that I think is really

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the fundamental point of this of this book, is that

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you know that value of freedom that you will do

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literally anything to have that, and that not just the

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physical freedom part of it, but just to be you know,

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mentally free, to be free and have your own agency

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and be able to be yourself.

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Speaker 1: If you were to slip your feet into your father's

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slippers and all of a sudden you became your father

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and your son came up to you and said you

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were going to kill Russians, what would your reaction and

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answer be your son wearing your your father's slippers.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's real difficult for me to answer because,

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first of all, I don't have any kids. But second

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of all, I know what you know, my mindset was yeah,

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And so you know, if I had been my father

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in that situation and known how I felt inside, I

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would have understood. And I think that my dad, you know,

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did understand later. He just he didn't want to understand that.

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You know, he wanted he wanted me to be home

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and be safe. He didn't want me to risk my

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life going there and possibly you know, be killed in action.

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After all that he did, and my mom did, my

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sister did, my girlfriend did to get me out, and

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you know, for me to say that to him, you know,

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I feel guilty about that to this day, that I

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did that to my parents. But at the same time,

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I knew that if I didn't go, I was never

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going to be able to be myself again. And you know,

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I may have been there and been alive, but my parents,

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you know what, I've loved the shell of man instead

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of you know, their solemn man.

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Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for serving this nation as

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well as this world, because what you've done is you've

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bridged a lot of things together that a lot of

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us can't fathom. But your book opens up our heart

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to really, really take a look at the realms of

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reality that we dine with every single day. Where can

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people go to find out more about you, Trevor, because

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your story needs to be heard and we can grow

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from your darkest times.

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Speaker 2: To find out more about me, I'm not really sure,

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but you could find everything you want about me in

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the book. I think that's for sale pretty much everywhere.

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And you know, I sincerely hope that when you read

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that book, you you get a look and you think

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about some of the heroes that are in there, like

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my you know, my parents, Lena, the guys on Rogue team,

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and then all of the people of the State Department

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who do this for a living to get get Americans home.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Please come back to this show anytime in the future.

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The door is always going to be open for you.

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Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, thank you so much for having me, sir.

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Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? Okay, sir, Okay, you two