WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.279 Oh hi, just a quick note up top. So this 2 00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:05.360 episode is all about cheese, and of course we touch 3 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:08.640 on the history and the making and the science of it. 4 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.640 We don't go into a lot about the dairy industry itself, 5 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.280 because that would be a series of episodes. We do 6 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:20.079 talk about veganism, We do talk about plant based options. 7 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:24.120 Especially in part two, we talk about some animal ethics 8 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:27.399 and some more sustainable cheeses. So we do talk about that. 9 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:30.359 But in general, if you are very, very opposed to 10 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:34.039 anything that is animal product related, this one might not 11 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.920 be your favorite episode, or you might learn some things 12 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:39.479 that you can put in your toolkit if you were 13 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.280 talking to people about a plant based diet. But I 14 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:44.960 just wanted to give that heads up. I know dairies 15 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.359 not for everyone, and I see you, I hear you. 16 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.640 But for those that do like cheese, here we go. 17 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:54.880 Oh hey, it's the monster who returns emails at four 18 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:59.119 pm on a Friday. Sorry everyone, Ali Ward, this is cheese. 19 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:01.679 This is a top that you have told me you've 20 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:05.799 been craving for years. It's a hot, stinky delivery that 21 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:06.760 will melt in your ears. 22 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:07.239 Let's hit it. 23 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:10.120 So I use the internet to do the equivalent of 24 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:13.120 hiding behind a plant hoping to catch the eye of 25 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:16.640 this ologist, who is at the top of Culture's hot 26 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:19.920 list of nine cheese Stars to Watch and has been 27 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:24.079 featured in Fogue and Seber magazines. They're also the founder 28 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:28.159 of cheese advocacy group Own Your Funk. They've won awards 29 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:33.680 at the International Cheesemonger Invitational single handedly quartering a fifty 30 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.840 pound round of parmesan with a knife and her two hands, 31 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.640 which is usually a four person job. And I slid 32 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:42.879 into their DMS and when I got a return message, 33 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:46.640 the heavens parted so excited. So let's talk cheese. But first, 34 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:48.799 thank you to patrons. We have Patreon dot com slash 35 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.280 ologies who for one dollar a month can submit questions 36 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:55.040 ahead of time for theologists and wow, record number of questions. 37 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.079 We had sixty four pages of questions for this ologists. 38 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:01.400 So this will shock absolutely no one. But this will 39 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:03.680 be a two parter because it was too large a 40 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:06.400 cheese wheel for once serving, we had to halve it up. 41 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:09.120 So thank you also to everyone for wearing your ologies 42 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:11.319 merch out in the wild to find each other. You 43 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:14.520 can get a debt Ologiesmarch dot com and for no dollars. 44 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.039 Thank you for leaving us reviews, all of which I 45 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.560 read and then is proof I highlight a fresh one, 46 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.960 such as this one from Great Workout APO, who called 47 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:27.199 Ologies the best podcast for the former curious child. Also, 48 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.520 if you're not even a former child, but a current 49 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:32.599 one and you need some g rated shorter classrooms, say 50 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:37.319 versions of Ologies, we have them. They're called smologies smologies, 51 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:39.719 and they're available wherever you et your podcasts. They're in 52 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:41.960 their own feed that's linked to the show notes. Also, 53 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:43.639 thank you to Sponsored to the show for making it 54 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.360 possible to donate to not one, but two causes of 55 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:51.240 the ologists choosing this time. Okay, onto Fromology. It comes 56 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.039 from the French fromage for cheese. And in this two 57 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.599 part episode you will hear about soft cheeses, hard ones, 58 00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:01.199 vegetarian ones, vegan ones, what exactly goes into cheese? How 59 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:03.719 to set up a cheeseboard that will impress the most 60 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.159 French of dinner guests if it's actually aged in caves. 61 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:12.319 The ethics of dairy cheese history, different warm blooded animals 62 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.960 whose milk is used for cheese, Some might not appetize you. 63 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:21.159 American cheese side eye. The stinkiest cheeses, the orange versus 64 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:25.840 the creamy white, shootyodorizers, crunchy cheese crystals, and how to 65 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:28.960 chat up amonger And come back next week to learn 66 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:32.919 how to properly store cheese, The grilled sandwich Debate, how 67 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:36.319 to make cheese at home, cheese pricing, squeaky curds, The 68 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:41.719 Moon's composition, How cheese changes your brain chemistry, the Ultimate 69 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:46.360 Charcuteri board, plus holes, crystals and maggots. Oh my with 70 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:51.319 this stunning two parter featuring professional food educator, certified cheese 71 00:03:51.360 --> 00:04:17.680 professional and phromologist Kira James, Kiera James she Her and okay, pharmologist, 72 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:22.639 cheesemonger cheese expert. To me, they're all the same, but 73 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:26.399 is there a distinction in the cheese world. 74 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:28.720 There isn't so much a distinction in the cheese world. 75 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:31.000 But it's such a small, nice little family that we 76 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.759 all kind of work together and have interchanging roles. There 77 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.079 are different levels in the industry of sort of your 78 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:41.160 expertise over time. After doing anything for a period of time, 79 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:42.680 you get better and better at it, and so there 80 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:46.920 are various scholarly certifications you can take. You can become 81 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.720 a certified cheese Professional, which is what I did. 82 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:53.600 And now you have a master's in gastronomy. Did you 83 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:58.000 have cheese elements within that or did you go into 84 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:02.319 it as cheese or oriented or were you like in 85 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:08.079 the world of gastronomy, studies like the cheese unit really resonated. 86 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.959 There is a cheese category in the degree now, but 87 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:15.160 at the time I didn't enter into the master's program 88 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:18.600 with the goal of learning about cheese. There are mentions 89 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:21.120 of it throughout, you know, the history class, so I'm 90 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:23.879 sure there was some cheese sprinkled in throughout the degree, 91 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:26.920 but it was more over our food degree with a 92 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.519 lot of social sciences, anthropology things like that. 93 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:33.319 Oh I didn't realize that there was so much history 94 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:36.240 and anthropology in that kind of degree. I thought it 95 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:39.040 would all just be like this boils at this temperature. 96 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.319 But what do they cover in a master's of christronomy. 97 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:47.079 So the core classes are history, food, and the senses. 98 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:50.360 You learn about how to use your senses and how 99 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:53.759 other people have used their senses to educate and to 100 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.040 learn about food and to grow the world of food 101 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.920 through the senses. There's lots of focuses like food market, 102 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:04.199 the Anthropology of food is another one, so a lot 103 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:08.399 of social sciences. Food and gender was another class that 104 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:12.560 was really spoke to me a great deal. Food and 105 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.319 wine is another sort of aspect of the degree. I 106 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:18.600 took classes in the marketing in the business school. I 107 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:23.360 took classes in the hospitality and tourism department. So you 108 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.639 really can make it your own degree. But it's all 109 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:27.680 center drama. Social sciences of food. 110 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:31.279 I feel like you could do a whole degree on 111 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:35.399 just when someone comes around and just like say, when 112 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:40.279 on the parmesan, I feel like there's so much psychologically 113 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:41.600 that happens in that moment. 114 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:46.000 For sure, you're very empowered. It's a very empowering moment 115 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:47.600 to say one. 116 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.759 I'm always like, if I keep going, are they going 117 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:51.319 to judge me? 118 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:51.720 Yes? 119 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.720 And if I say that's plenty too early? Am I 120 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.959 gonna think? On the whole drive home I could have 121 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.399 gotten more cheese at it. I don't know. 122 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.839 You got to wait it out extra. 123 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:07.040 So can you tell me a little bit about when 124 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:11.439 your life became a cheese oriented? What was it that 125 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:16.199 kind of was your entree? No pun intended on God. 126 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:20.680 Yeah, So I needed a job to finish paying for 127 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:24.639 my master's degree I had, you know, saved some money, 128 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:27.759 but I needed a job. So I applied for job 129 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.040 on Craigslist at the time, and it was for a 130 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.399 cheesemonger position at one of the oldest cheese shops in America. 131 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:36.680 I didn't know at the time how prestigious it was, 132 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:39.680 but I really very quickly learned of its prestige as 133 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:43.279 I started working there. And then I had a Naha 134 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.800 moment when I tried certain cheeses. So, you know, learning 135 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.759 about cheese, you have to taste it, you learn about 136 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:51.720 the stories and where it comes from, and all these 137 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:54.160 really fun facts about cheese and all these things that 138 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:57.319 I had never even knew were things that you can 139 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:00.759 do with food, let alone a perishable food like cheese, 140 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.439 so all the different ways you can create it. And 141 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:06.519 so there was a cheese from Iowa that is a 142 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:08.240 cheddar that when I had. 143 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:11.360 It, it was like my Aha moment. It's called Prairie Breeze. 144 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:15.480 It's very widely available now, but at the time it 145 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:17.560 was a little bit smaller producer. 146 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:19.519 Just it's a delicious cheese. 147 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:23.199 It's made by Mennonite people in Iowa, and they don't 148 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:24.000 use a lot of. 149 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.360 Electricity to create the cheese. So it's a lot. 150 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:31.720 Of old traditions and old school approach to cheese making, 151 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.679 and they make these amazing cheddars, and so as I 152 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.519 learned more about cheese, I just really became in love 153 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:40.399 with the stories and the flavor, and sort of the 154 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:41.840 rest is history from there. 155 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:45.679 So I look this up and apparently there are twist on. 156 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:50.200 An aged cheddar has a pasty, fodgy texture with crunchy 157 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.159 crystals and a tangy but nutty umami flavor. And they 158 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.240 call this cheese affordable enough for back of the house, 159 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.720 yet sophisticated enough for front of the house. But also 160 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:04.440 this particular creamery boasts that they source milk from small, 161 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:08.919 high quality and hygienic local dairy farms within thirty miles 162 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:12.440 of their cheese making creamery. And now I'm making up 163 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:16.799 a whole backstory narrative about this pastoral dairy community and 164 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:18.879 maybe how they all know each other and like hot 165 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:21.840 tub together or give each other dating advice. I don't know. 166 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:25.519 Is that kind of part of the allure of it, 167 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:27.679 is learning all these different backstories. 168 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:29.759 I think that's part of it. 169 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.159 So from the outside, you think you know cheese is 170 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:35.600 mass produced by a few really big companies and that's it. 171 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:38.960 And yes they are producing the most cheese out here 172 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.919 and serving the most people. But were diversity and all 173 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.879 the fun sort of nuances of the industry come into 174 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:48.399 play are with those small producers. And small doesn't have 175 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:51.039 to be, you know, a mom and pop operation. It 176 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:54.240 can be a family run or a little bit bigger. 177 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:56.639 But the idea is it being something that you can 178 00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:59.759 point to and say, this is where this cheese comes from. 179 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:01.679 This what the animals are eating, This is what the 180 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:04.360 farmers are doing to take care of them, this is 181 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:07.200 what they're doing to make the cheese. So the smaller 182 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:09.519 producers are really where you can learn about who's making 183 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.440 the biggest impact in their small, little environments. 184 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:15.120 Just a side note up top here, I know so 185 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:19.279 many listeners are plant based for environmental and ethical and 186 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:22.480 animal cruelty reasons. I definitely encourage you to look deeper 187 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:24.799 into that, and I'm more than happy to do a 188 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.000 future episode on veganism. Actually we're cooking one up as 189 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.399 we speak on that, so stay tuned. But if you're 190 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.480 one of the many thousand listeners who really wanted to 191 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.759 hear about the science and the history of cheese from 192 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:38.480 an expert. Because you love cheese, this is a good 193 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.080 incentive to consider the types of cheese that you consume 194 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:44.320 and the practices of smaller creamries and just the origin 195 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:47.120 of your food in general, and that good cheese may 196 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:49.879 be pricier and we'll talk more about why in Part two, 197 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:53.480 as well as cover some vegan cheese options. But strike 198 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:56.399 up a convo with your creamery people at the neighborhood 199 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.679 farmers market. Chat up a local manger. That's one thing 200 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.039 I love about cheesemongers, especially the ones who are really passionate. 201 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.320 I live near a place called Milk Farm, which is 202 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.879 a great cheese shop and my favorite cheesemonger. They're rue. 203 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:15.240 Whenever I go in to get cheeses. They always tell 204 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:18.559 me the backstory of different ones and why I might 205 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:20.519 like something, And I always feel like I leave there 206 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:23.799 with like a history lesson, which is so cool. Like 207 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.639 when I eat the cheese, I remember, well they told 208 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:28.679 me about it. I feel like a lot of that 209 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:32.679 passion really comes through when people are cheese people, you know. 210 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:37.000 Yes, passion is definitely a big consistency throughout any cheesemonger 211 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:40.039 cheese professional having passion for the industry is really important, 212 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.519 and being a storyteller is another part of the job. 213 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:46.120 So we're so excited about the stories that it's hard 214 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.840 not to share them with everybody that comes into. 215 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:50.720 Our world learning about cheese. 216 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.120 It's hard to stop once you start talking about those things. 217 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.919 And I love that Rude keeps it going for you. 218 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:59.279 Every visit you get another experience that they can explain 219 00:11:59.320 --> 00:11:59.600 to you. 220 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.080 Yeah, what do you feel like? Is the most common 221 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:04.279 question people ask you about cheese. 222 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.360 The most common question I'd say is can you eat 223 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.960 the rind? Oh, that's a very big question. People get 224 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.559 very hesitant about the rind and if they can eat it. 225 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:19.519 People ask about pasteurization and raw milk pretty consistently, but overall, 226 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:21.480 they just want to know where products are coming from. 227 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:23.960 So the type of cheese that it is, who made it, 228 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.559 how old is the cheese? And then another very common 229 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:28.879 question is how to pair it? 230 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:30.600 What do you eat with this cheese? 231 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:36.039 Because everyone likes to know what a cheese professionals preferences 232 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.440 are for paring cheese. So what beverage would you pay 233 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:40.919 with this? So what accouture amount would you pay with this? 234 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.360 It's not just meat that has charcotery anxiety. If like, 235 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.879 do I have enough? Do I have a good balance 236 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.159 on this charcuterie board? You know you want like a 237 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:53.720 soft one and a hard one, maybe a smokey one, 238 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.519 which is why a cheese munger is the best. If 239 00:12:56.519 --> 00:13:00.159 you're like, I got people coming over, they're French, help 240 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:03.279 me out what do I put on this thing? But okay, 241 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.919 let's start at the basics. What is cheese? Cheese comes 242 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:15.039 from milk, but I don't know curds, way, what is it? 243 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:19.159 Yeah, so cheese is a fermented food. So you start 244 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:22.159 with milk and you add only three ingredients to the 245 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:23.600 milk to create cheese. 246 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:24.639 Each of those. 247 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.279 Ingredients has a very specific role that they play. Cultures, rented, 248 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.240 and salt. They're added at different points in the process 249 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.120 to the milk, and then through the power of science, 250 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.879 the milk is turned into solids and liquid. Curds are 251 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.720 the solids, the proteins and the fats, and whey is 252 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.080 the liquid, the sugar and the water, and so you 253 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.679 separate the two and then you drain out the liquid. 254 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:51.360 The way is never wasted. On a quality farm, there's 255 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:53.840 lots of nutrients in the liquid, so that's going to 256 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:56.200 be used for some purpose, and then the curds are 257 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.720 used for cheese making, and from there the options are 258 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.720 pretty much endless. At the beginning of the process. You 259 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:04.360 know what type of cheese you want to make. At 260 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:07.279 the end and so you're going to take the steps 261 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:08.600 to make that type of cheese. 262 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.960 So to recap milk, cultures, rennet, salt, so. 263 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.240 Cheese is just those four ingredients. You separate the curds 264 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:18.159 from the way, and then you take those curds and 265 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:20.360 you create your final cheese. You might serve it fresh. 266 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.399 It might be your fresh cheese like mozzarella or ricata, 267 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:25.840 or it might be something that has to be put 268 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.639 into a form, put on a shelf for a year, 269 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.559 and then consume, like parmesanicmagiano. 270 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:37.000 I always wondered with like curds and curdle. If you 271 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.759 add an acid to your latte, like let's say you 272 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.360 try to make a lemon latte with the whole milk, 273 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:47.000 it's gonna get chunky? Is that kind of what's happening 274 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.799 with cheese, but on like a larger curd level. 275 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:55.039 Sort of, Yeah, there's some interactions between the acid and 276 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:58.559 the lemon and the dairy products, so you can create 277 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.320 cheese using acids like lemon juice or vinegar at home. 278 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:06.240 They're going to act as a natural what we call coagulant, 279 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:09.639 so they're going to naturally separate the curds from the way. 280 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.759 So when you add the lemon to the dairy and 281 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.679 you see that happening, you're kind of corragulating your milk. 282 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.720 So you're kind of creating those first few steps of 283 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:22.200 the cheese making process without really trying to. It won't 284 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.240 taste much like cheese, but the textures will begin to 285 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:28.360 change just because of that acid and how it interacts 286 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.399 with the proteins and the fats in the milk. 287 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.080 But in the case of most cheeses, it's the enzymes 288 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:38.519 in rennet, specifically one called chymesin, which cleaves a certain 289 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:41.399 bond of caseine proteins in the milk. And we'll talk 290 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:43.840 more about rennet in a minute, but if you want 291 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:50.480 to get specific, chymesin breaks cappa casine into hydrophobic paracappa caaseine, 292 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:53.720 meaning broadly that the liquids and the solids in milk 293 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:58.759 separate because of that ensmatic action. Hence, curds and whey, which, 294 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:02.840 if you remember from Miss Muffet her separated milkshake brings 295 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:05.240 all the spiders to the art. I always wondered what 296 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.879 happens to the way when you say that they don't 297 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.879 waste it. Does it get fed back to goats or 298 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.639 does it become protein powder? Like? What happens with. 299 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:16.639 That great question? Yeah, all the aboves. 300 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.480 So for a smaller farm, they may feed the way 301 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:21.559 to other animals on the farm. 302 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.919 They may make other cheeses from the way. 303 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:27.519 So you can make ricotta from whey. There's still some 304 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:31.919 proteins and fats in that liquid that you can coagulate 305 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.679 and you know, extract from the way to create ricotta. 306 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.399 For larger producers, that's definitely where the way is going 307 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.960 is to weigh powder. So when people are protein powders 308 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:48.360 for athletes or gym rats or people who want to 309 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:53.000 get muscle mass, they might consume weigh protein in that form, 310 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.000 but it's definitely something that is not wasted. They can 311 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.039 use it on the grounds, like to help grow grass 312 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.879 as a natural so there's lots of ways to use. 313 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.920 There's so much nutrients in there that something's going to 314 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:05.440 be done with it. 315 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:05.920 For sure. 316 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:12.519 Take me back in history. How long has planet Earth 317 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:17.240 had cheese? Is there a consensus among the tight knit 318 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:18.400 cheese community on this. 319 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:21.799 The first traces of cheese go back to eight thousand BC, 320 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.720 so about ten thousand years ago, and it really starts 321 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:31.400 with the Neolithic people, when humans went from hunter and 322 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:38.799 gatherers to agricultural communities where they actually planted foods, domesticated animals, 323 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.519 and they were milking dairy animals, mostly sheep and goat. 324 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.599 At the time, there weren't cows, and they would leave 325 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.559 the milk out over a period of time in the 326 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.799 sun because they were in the Fertile Crescent, So in 327 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:55.359 that part of the world, it's very hot and warm, 328 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:58.640 and so just by sitting the milk out in the 329 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.839 field in the sun, it would naturally ferment the milk 330 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:05.480 and create cheese. So there's traces of sort of that 331 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.279 fresh cheese dating back to eight thousand DC. 332 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:13.759 That's bonkers. I would have thought it was, like, I 333 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:18.039 don't know, seventeen hundreds. Maybe the notion that the pastries 334 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.400 really didn't pop off until like the seventeen Like, I 335 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.559 would think that cheese is a relatively new invention. Super 336 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.839 wrong here, super wrong as pastries have been around since 337 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.720 at least ancient Egyptian times, and I should have known 338 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:34.880 that because we have a stellar episode called Gastro Egyptology 339 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:40.039 about resurrecting millennia old yeast from this ancient pottery to 340 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:44.279 bake bread. But while people have been making pastries for 341 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.720 thousands of years, I was semi correct that baked desserts 342 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.720 did indeed pop off in the seventeen hundreds when this 343 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:55.880 French guy named Antwine Kerramet absolutely began nailing pastry innovations. 344 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:01.079 Why then, because colonization and the enslaved of humans on 345 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.559 sugar cane plantations in places like the Caribbean and what 346 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:09.200 would become the United States, which just exploded sugar consumption 347 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:12.640 and demand in Europe. Now for more on the horrors 348 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:17.119 of plantations and how that history continues to affect ecology now, 349 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.319 and for more on the brilliant folks who coined the 350 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:24.440 field of critical ecology, I'll link that episode with doctor 351 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.279 Suzanne Pierre in the show notes, if you have ever 352 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.519 eaten sugar, you should hear it now to further kill 353 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:34.599 your boner. The majority of cane sugar refinement still relies 354 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:39.359 on cattle bone jar making it questionably vegan at best. 355 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.440 But if that's a concern, you can look for raw sugar, 356 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:46.359 vegan sugar, or labels saying it's organic. That means it's 357 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.880 made without couchar. Now, as for cattle, I was like, 358 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:54.839 when when were cows invented? Human beings began domesticating cows 359 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:58.480 about ten thousand years ago from this now extinct species 360 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:02.119 of bovine of cow parts. I'm so glad you mentioned 361 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.000 rennett because that is a mystery ingredient that I don't 362 00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:12.720 quite understand. So cheese is milk, salt, rennet and. 363 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.039 Cultures or bacteria. 364 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.279 Yeah, So what's the rennet component? 365 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:19.680 So that's the real coagulant. 366 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.039 So that's the most powerful thing that you really need 367 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:28.319 to get things moving. Renn It is a natural microorganism, 368 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:31.839 mostly enzymes. There are different types of rennet, but the 369 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.519 most traditional rennet is called animal rennet, and that has 370 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.440 to be found in certain animals in their linings of 371 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.279 their stomachs. When these mammals are born and they're consuming 372 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:44.640 only milk, they need to be able to digest that. 373 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.319 So the rennet enzymes in their stomach actually break down 374 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.519 the milk when they're consuming it, and so we use 375 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.119 those same enzymes to break down milk for cheesemaking in 376 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.119 the natural form, so it can be animal rennit. You 377 00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:01.319 also can do vegetarian rennet, So for any vegetarians out 378 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.200 there who do onlyed any animal byproducts at all. There 379 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.559 are rennets that are not made from animals. Those are 380 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:10.960 from thistle like artichoke, fig sap are a few of 381 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.880 the more common ones. And then there's microbial rent where 382 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:18.119 you can actually create it in labs now today using 383 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.599 natural enzymes that are coming from the plants and coming 384 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.759 from molds and yeasts. But the quagulant, the thing that 385 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:27.920 separates the curves from the way is what rennet is. 386 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.680 How is rennet harvested from animals? It seems like it 387 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:35.319 would be cheaper to get it for micro organisms or 388 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:37.000 artichoke or thistle. 389 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:37.799 What do I know? 390 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:42.640 But is it easier to obtain from animals? I have 391 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:46.559 no idea. I am absolutely in the dark about this, 392 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:47.799 so I don't know anything. 393 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.119 So well, today, you know, in the modern times, you 394 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.839 can buy rent it online and capsules. That's what I 395 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.119 have in my freezer. They stay fresh longer in the freezer. 396 00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.839 But you can buy rent it online, but you also 397 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.400 can purchase stomach linings like dried stomach lining to add 398 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.240 to your cheese making process. So you know, thinking about 399 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.279 the make process, you have to kind of focus on 400 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.839 the positive in the make process. But they do come 401 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:14.920