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<v Speaker 1>Hi, This is Gary EMUs from Sale Morgan and I

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<v Speaker 1>play at Creekside Golf Course. This is Golf Smarter number

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<v Speaker 1>ninety seven eight.

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<v Speaker 2>Could you go out and play golf and make a

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<v Speaker 2>commitment to being a great playing partner? And it sounds whimsical,

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<v Speaker 2>tree hugging it up and all the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the win win with that is that you

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<v Speaker 2>go out and if you're intending to be a great

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<v Speaker 2>playing partner, you're probably going to be a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>less selfish and self absorbed, a bit more self less.

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<v Speaker 2>And if we're self less, perhaps we're not so much

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<v Speaker 2>in our own head trying to figure everything out to

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<v Speaker 2>the nth degree. As we're going around, we're a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit more engaged with other people. My experience is when

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<v Speaker 2>people have experimented with that as a commitment, they generally

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<v Speaker 2>play better. And the worst thing that happens with that,

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<v Speaker 2>fred you actually enjoy the round more because you do

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<v Speaker 2>genuinely engage with other people.

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<v Speaker 1>Make a commitment to being a great playing partner. The

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<v Speaker 1>benefits will amaze you. With Carl Morris, this is Golf Smarter,

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<v Speaker 1>sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to

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<v Speaker 1>help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf

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<v Speaker 1>Smarter podcast. Carl.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, Fred, it's wonderful to see you and great to

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<v Speaker 2>be back. Always enjoy our conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>Always enjoy the conversations. Always learn so much from you.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was looking back, this is at least the

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<v Speaker 1>fifth time that you've been on. The first time was

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<v Speaker 1>back and we've been doing this since twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, wow, it was as many times as I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>repeater Fender.

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<v Speaker 1>Then y as you are. But also I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if it started after we started doing this, But you

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<v Speaker 1>started your own podcast that's doing quite well, and you've

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<v Speaker 1>been You've got a lot of episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I think I'm way behind you, Fred, But

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<v Speaker 2>I've done about six and a half years now, which

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<v Speaker 2>is which is not a bad effort. I think, as

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<v Speaker 2>we were saying before we started, there's an awful lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people who start podcast, but to keep to that

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<v Speaker 2>commitment weekly is a fair ol task to stick to,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't it. But I don't know about you. I've got

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<v Speaker 2>to the point now where I would feel incredibly guilty

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<v Speaker 2>if I didn't do the things that I needed to

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<v Speaker 2>do to put it out week but week by week

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<v Speaker 2>and above anything else, right, I just genuinely enjoy doing

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<v Speaker 2>what we're doing here because I mean I'm a coach

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<v Speaker 2>first and foremost, but I mean that's quite a lonely

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<v Speaker 2>place to be at times. You know, you just go

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<v Speaker 2>about your own business and you see your own clients,

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<v Speaker 2>but to share ideas with other people, I just find

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<v Speaker 2>that it's a wonderful hobby.

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<v Speaker 1>Really well, I'm very flattered by looking down the list

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<v Speaker 1>of people that you've featured on your podcast called The

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<v Speaker 1>Mind Caddy, which I think is an incredible name, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of folks that we've shared.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Jim Waldron is probably the one who's been

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<v Speaker 2>on most of many of your shows, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>a guy called Justin Tango. I don't know who's been

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<v Speaker 2>who's been on your podcast, but if you haven't had

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<v Speaker 2>him on, he's a wonderful coach in Asia. And he

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<v Speaker 2>actually introduced me to to Jim and we've really we

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<v Speaker 2>really hit it off. We've become kindred spirits. Really. I

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<v Speaker 2>can sit and talk with Jim with Jim and then

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<v Speaker 2>two always disappears very very quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>Very quickly, and Justin was on here, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>I was the one that introduced them.

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<v Speaker 2>The Jim Waldron was it really really?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so right, But that doesn't matter. But Jane's story,

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<v Speaker 1>John Sherman, Raymond Pryor, Scott Fassett, Fred Shoemaker, Gary Nick.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, what you bring him wherever you go, I

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<v Speaker 1>would love to hear. You know, when I first started

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<v Speaker 1>approaching Fred Shoemaker to be on the podcast, he'd never

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<v Speaker 1>heard of podcasting and he didn't know what we were doing.

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<v Speaker 1>And he did a couple with me, but then he

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<v Speaker 1>was like, man, I'm not so I was so excited

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<v Speaker 1>to see that he was on your show. Share with

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<v Speaker 1>me if you will. Some of the teachings that Fred

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<v Speaker 1>is doing now, were, you know, versus fifteen eighteen years

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<v Speaker 1>ago when I had him. I'm sure it's advanced because

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<v Speaker 1>he's so thoughtful.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Fred, eventually we'll go down and we'll look back.

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<v Speaker 2>As Fred had been one of, if not the most

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<v Speaker 2>influential coach in golf in the past twenty twenty five years.

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<v Speaker 2>I really don't think he's been given the mainstream credit

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<v Speaker 2>that he fully deserves, maybe because he's never been particularly

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<v Speaker 2>interested in being on tour and working with tour players

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<v Speaker 2>and things like that. He plays very much to the

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<v Speaker 2>beat of his own drum. But you know, funnily enough,

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<v Speaker 2>he was on last week's podcast on my podcast a

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<v Speaker 2>week before last, and I look forward to him with

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<v Speaker 2>a like like us. We sort of have an annual conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a bit like it's a bit like Thanksgiving or

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas or whatever. It comes around once a year, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's gracious enough to come on. His wife, Joe, is

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<v Speaker 2>a lovely person. She facilitates that. But every time I

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<v Speaker 2>listen to Fred, every time I do a podcast with him,

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<v Speaker 2>I generally play it back three or four more times,

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<v Speaker 2>which I don't really do with too many other guests,

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<v Speaker 2>because there's so many wonderful insights there, and he is

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<v Speaker 2>such a deep thinker. I think for me, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the big things that has influenced my thinking is Spread's

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<v Speaker 2>idea that when you go out on the golf course

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<v Speaker 2>is how does the golf course occur to you? Does

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<v Speaker 2>the golf course occur to you as a place of

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity or is it a place of threat? And I

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<v Speaker 2>think for most people we've fallen into the trap of

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<v Speaker 2>the golf course unfortunately becoming a place of threat. And

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<v Speaker 2>if the golf courses occurring to you as a threat,

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<v Speaker 2>there's going to be a physiological response to that. So

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we can be trying to do all kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of things in our swing and work on all kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of stuff, but we're if we're physiologically threatened by the

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<v Speaker 2>environment called golf, we're probably not going to perform at

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<v Speaker 2>our best. And no amount of breathing techniques and things

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<v Speaker 2>like that, whilst they all have the value and the place,

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<v Speaker 2>it really is understanding how you are perceiving that environment,

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<v Speaker 2>how you're perceiving the game of golf, which I think

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<v Speaker 2>then lends itself to that key question that we probably

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<v Speaker 2>don't ask enough as golfers. Why do we play? Why

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<v Speaker 2>is it that we do this thing called golf? And

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<v Speaker 2>I think when I ask players that question you very

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<v Speaker 2>often they'll answer it. And I realized that the answer

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<v Speaker 2>is not their genuine answer, It's an answer that's been

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<v Speaker 2>given to them by other people. And when you press

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<v Speaker 2>them two or three levels down and you really get

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<v Speaker 2>to the root of white people play golf. I think

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<v Speaker 2>if you can tap into that, you can then create

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<v Speaker 2>something that you can go out and make a commitment

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<v Speaker 2>to you when you actually play golf, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's one of the roots to change the perception of

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<v Speaker 2>golf from being a threat to an opportunity.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, first of all, regarding his wife, Joe, the irony

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<v Speaker 1>of this is just too overwhelming for me. That my

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<v Speaker 1>wife's name is Joanne. I call her Joe, so it's

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<v Speaker 1>Fred and Joe, which is the same that he has.

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<v Speaker 1>And strangely enough, I don't know if you know, mister Rogers,

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<v Speaker 1>mister he was a TV he did kids shows for

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<v Speaker 1>decades in the United States, and his wife was Joanne

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Okay, that's enough of that. But just recently,

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<v Speaker 1>and boy must have come from the deepest part of

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<v Speaker 1>my mind with Fred Schumaker, but just recently I realized

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<v Speaker 1>that and came up with the idea of that the

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<v Speaker 1>tea box is a meeting place of uncertainty and the

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<v Speaker 1>green is a meeting place of hope, and that everything

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<v Speaker 1>in between is like, Okay, I'll see you there.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, at least i'll see you on the green

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<v Speaker 1>or I'll see you at the tea box, but everything

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle is like you're on your own. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a meeting place of uncertainty is because when you step

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<v Speaker 1>up to the t it's like, where am I supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to go? What am I supposed to do? Which club

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<v Speaker 1>am I supposed to hit? I'm not sure I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>hitting this club. Well today I'm feeling oh, I'm feeling confident,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's that bunker in the middle. So definitely there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of uncertainty when you step up to the tee.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you're stepping up on the green, the putting green,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like, I hope I can do this. I think

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<v Speaker 1>I can do this. I want to do this, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'll know if not, I'll get close. Right, It's a

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<v Speaker 1>meeting place of hope.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think the points on that really is to

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<v Speaker 2>me so relevant that when we can eventually and I

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<v Speaker 2>say eventually, make peace with the chaos and uncertainty, that

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<v Speaker 2>golf will always bring a great paradox kicks in that

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<v Speaker 2>when we're okay with the uncertainty, it tends to settle down.

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<v Speaker 2>I think most of us we start playing golf in

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<v Speaker 2>the early days, and you know, we we go out

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<v Speaker 2>there and we play and we're not creating too many

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<v Speaker 2>expectations certainly, if we play as a kid, we're just

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<v Speaker 2>we want to whack a golf ball and play. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think for most people that comes a point whereby

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<v Speaker 2>there's a sense of identity on the line when you

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<v Speaker 2>go and play golf, and a sense of your self worth,

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<v Speaker 2>and all those things tend to kick in, and then

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<v Speaker 2>what we tend to try and do is protect ourselves

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<v Speaker 2>from the feelings that bad shots give us. And the

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<v Speaker 2>search to protect ourselves from those feelings then tends to

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<v Speaker 2>fall into a couple of categories, the main one being technique.

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<v Speaker 2>That if I can just get the right technique, if

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<v Speaker 2>I can just be given the silver bullet, if somebody

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<v Speaker 2>can bestow me with the wisdom of putting my club

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<v Speaker 2>in a certain place, or swinging in a certain way,

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<v Speaker 2>or moving my body in a certain way, surely that

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<v Speaker 2>will protect me from poor golf. Well, I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 2>if any of your listeners can ring in and say

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<v Speaker 2>they've reached that promised land, But my experience is that

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<v Speaker 2>it's a fruitless search. Not saying you shouldn't work on

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<v Speaker 2>developing your skills, obviously that's a big part of it,

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<v Speaker 2>but nothing will ever protect us from hitting poor shots.

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<v Speaker 2>But actually, if we can get to the stage where

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<v Speaker 2>we can develop an acceptance for all outcomes, to me,

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<v Speaker 2>that is the genuine foundation of confidence. You know, Raymond

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<v Speaker 2>Pryor has been on both I shows, who's a great psychologist.

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<v Speaker 2>He talks about stable confidence, and you know, essentially stable

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<v Speaker 2>confidence only emerges from a willingness to accept the variety

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<v Speaker 2>of outcome.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned about the acceptance of results, which is so hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we're talking. We're here to talk to amateur golfers,

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<v Speaker 1>to recreational golfers who definitely want to get better, they

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<v Speaker 1>definitely want to learn more, but there's this acceptance of Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so I'm not going to be playing on the tour. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I may not win my club championship, but I still

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<v Speaker 1>want to enjoy the game. And what we have a

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<v Speaker 1>difficult time accepting as recreational golfers is that we make

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<v Speaker 1>bad shots and you get upset with ourselves. But then

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<v Speaker 1>if you watch the game at the highest level, you

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<v Speaker 1>see that they make mistakes as well, but they get

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<v Speaker 1>out of it. They don't carry it with them. It's

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<v Speaker 1>the acceptance of the results and then working from there

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<v Speaker 1>and their skill set as such. And let's not forget

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<v Speaker 1>that they do this seven days a week, ten hours

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<v Speaker 1>a day, okay, six days a week. Give them one

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<v Speaker 1>day off, but because they're traveling. But all golfers make

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<v Speaker 1>bad shots, no matter how good your your skills are.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think when you begin to understand that, Freddie,

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<v Speaker 2>the acceptance isn't in any way resignation. We're not We're

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<v Speaker 2>not saying, for one minute, be happy, you know, We're

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<v Speaker 2>not saying for one minute stand there knocking out of

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<v Speaker 2>bounds and grin and say, well, it's a lovely day

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm glad to be alive, And that would be

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<v Speaker 2>insulting people's intelligence. It's a it's a willingness to embrace

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that the game is inherently incredibly difficult. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>when we're talking about impact, you know, if you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to knock it thirty forty yards off line, off the tea,

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about a club face that's probably three degrees

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<v Speaker 2>closed at ninety five one hundred miles an hour. That

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<v Speaker 2>is infinitesimal degrees of difference between down the middle and

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<v Speaker 2>in the water or in the trees. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>then it comes into an area I've looked at an

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<v Speaker 2>awful lot these last few years is to really understand

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<v Speaker 2>that if you're going to get the best out of

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<v Speaker 2>your golfing experience, it's about focusing on devel up in

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<v Speaker 2>certain skills and then being able to access those skills

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<v Speaker 2>out on the golf course. Now, what does that mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Well to me, there's a big difference between focusing on

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<v Speaker 2>a skill and focusing on a form or a function

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<v Speaker 2>in the sense that most people get drawn into how

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<v Speaker 2>does the backswing look? Or is it too flat? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it too upright? Am I doing this with my hips right?

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<v Speaker 2>So we get drawn into the esthetics of the swing.

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<v Speaker 2>Now we can argue then endlessly about what is correct,

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<v Speaker 2>what is right, whose model's best, whose theory is best?

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<v Speaker 2>But ultimately, what is the only thing that we know

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<v Speaker 2>for certain that supplies information to the golf ball as

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<v Speaker 2>to what to do well? It's the golf club at

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<v Speaker 2>impact is the only thing that supplies the information to

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<v Speaker 2>the ball. The ball doesn't know whether you're in a

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<v Speaker 2>good mood or bad mood, whether you've been nice to

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<v Speaker 2>your wife, or you've been a good person, or you

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<v Speaker 2>anxious or calm or whatever. The only thing that the

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<v Speaker 2>golf board responds to is the physics and geometry of impact.

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<v Speaker 2>So surely we should be spending more time developing the

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<v Speaker 2>skill of influencing impact now, you know, shout out to

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<v Speaker 2>a friend and colleague, Adam Young John Sherman, who's been

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<v Speaker 2>on my show, who shares sort of similar ideas on

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<v Speaker 2>this that you know, if you are focusing your attention

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<v Speaker 2>on developing the skills and impact, I believe, then you're

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<v Speaker 2>at what I call the scene of the crime. You're

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<v Speaker 2>actually investigating what's gone on. You're not in the I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. In the States, we have the board game

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<v Speaker 2>called Cludo where there's a murder in a house and

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<v Speaker 2>it's in different rooms, and you know, the murders in

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<v Speaker 2>the library with a dagger by whoever it is. You

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<v Speaker 2>need to be in the right room to study the crime,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think the right room to study the crime

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<v Speaker 2>for golf is impact. And you know the guys and

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<v Speaker 2>lady listening this winter time. Even if you if you

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<v Speaker 2>did something that sounds so simple, but you set off

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<v Speaker 2>on the quest to develop the skill of a centered strike.

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<v Speaker 2>As obvious as it sounds, just hitting more golf shops,

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<v Speaker 2>hitting more balls out the middle of the club would

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<v Speaker 2>transform your experience because flashing on out the middle of

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<v Speaker 2>the club just feels inherently good. And yet I would

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<v Speaker 2>I would guess an awful lot of people tuning in

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<v Speaker 2>are putting their attention almost anywhere other than impact, and

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<v Speaker 2>their attention is on almost everything other than what the

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<v Speaker 2>golf club is doing to influence impact, because there's so

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<v Speaker 2>much out there about how the body should move and

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<v Speaker 2>how the risks should move. I'm not saying that's not

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<v Speaker 2>a factor, but if you're not, if you're not clear

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<v Speaker 2>on your impact conditions, you're not developing skill. You're focusing

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<v Speaker 2>on form, right.

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<v Speaker 1>But isn't the form get you to that moment of impact?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's one route you can work on the form.

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<v Speaker 2>My experience has been years ago when I sort of

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<v Speaker 2>coached the swing full time, I would get a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of players who look better in the swing but didn't

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<v Speaker 2>improve because they didn't improve their impact conditions. However, when

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<v Speaker 2>you start using one of the most powerful mental forces

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<v Speaker 2>of all, which is intention, If I have an intention,

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<v Speaker 2>so for instance, we're talking about center strike, if I

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<v Speaker 2>know that I'm hitting the ball off the toe regularly,

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<v Speaker 2>that's my pattern, and I do some practice where I

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<v Speaker 2>intentionally hit the ball off the heel as a result

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<v Speaker 2>of that intention. The genius of my body, which has

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<v Speaker 2>got up in my body, everybody's body, the genius of

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<v Speaker 2>the body, which has got a few billion years of

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<v Speaker 2>evolution behind it. It's amazing how the body organizes movement

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<v Speaker 2>around an intention. So does the form improve as a

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<v Speaker 2>result of intention, sometimes not always. But what does improve

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<v Speaker 2>as a result of intention is your impact conditions. And

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<v Speaker 2>if your impact conditions improve, it's as simple as this.

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<v Speaker 2>If your impact conditions improve, you will be a better golfer.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's it's it's as simple as that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, intention is huge. I've always like to keep that

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<v Speaker 1>forefront of my mind. Is what's my intent on the

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<v Speaker 1>next shot? Which I always believe is the hardest shot

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<v Speaker 1>in golf, is the next one?

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<v Speaker 2>I think linking two forces Fred Gary Nicol and myself

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<v Speaker 2>who wrote the Lost Art Books. We probably mentioned it

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<v Speaker 2>last time, but I think it burns repeating. The big

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<v Speaker 2>three of the mental game for us is intention, attention,

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<v Speaker 2>and attitude. So what is it what is it that

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<v Speaker 2>you in tend to do? And again, back to where

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<v Speaker 2>we've been so far in this conversation, my intention is

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<v Speaker 2>to hit it more towards the heel. Okay, well, word,

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<v Speaker 2>do I need to place my attention? Well, I could

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<v Speaker 2>place my attention on my right elbow, or my left paper,

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<v Speaker 2>or my right knee or whatever. That's probably not been

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<v Speaker 2>no influence impact that much. But if I place my

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<v Speaker 2>attention on the club, now I can with my attention

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<v Speaker 2>that I can influence my intention. And then what attitude

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<v Speaker 2>do I bring to that? Do I bring an attitude

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<v Speaker 2>of perfectionism or do I bring an attitude of curiosity.

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<v Speaker 1>Or fear or fear?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, curiosity is a great antidote to fear if

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<v Speaker 2>I can be curious about what actually happens as opposed

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<v Speaker 2>to being scared of what's going on. Because see, the

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<v Speaker 2>problem is spread is when you're on the golf course

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<v Speaker 2>and the ball isn't doing what you like, which is

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<v Speaker 2>most of the time for most of us, is that

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<v Speaker 2>the questquestion that we asked straight away is what did

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<v Speaker 2>I do wrong? And if the question what did I

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00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:09.960
<v Speaker 2>do wrong? Triggers endless search is in terms of technique,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm literally always going to be all over the place

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<v Speaker 2>based on lots of opinions. But if I hit a

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<v Speaker 2>shot offline and I asked the question, what did I

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00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.000
<v Speaker 2>do wrong? Was the club face open or closed? Did

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<v Speaker 2>I hit it out the middle or did heated out

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<v Speaker 2>of the toe? What was the interaction with the ground?

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<v Speaker 2>You know those those big three. You know, every shot,

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<v Speaker 2>every shot that you hit that you don't like, will

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<v Speaker 2>be down probably to one, not probably will be down

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<v Speaker 2>to one of those three factors. And I think, if

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<v Speaker 2>the explanation that we give to when a ball goes

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<v Speaker 2>offline is more and closed for one of a better word,

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<v Speaker 2>if it's not, if it's not all over the place,

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<v Speaker 2>if it's not with lots of different opinions. If if

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<v Speaker 2>I can keep my attention on three possible things that

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<v Speaker 2>cause golf balls to go off line, I'm now playing

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<v Speaker 2>a much simpler game. I'm now able to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>the variety of outcomes. My acceptance levels improve, and I

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<v Speaker 2>start to influence the things that really matter. So I

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<v Speaker 2>start to play a game where I developed a bit

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<v Speaker 2>more resiliency, and perhaps more importantly, the big skill is adaptability.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that can I notice what's happening and then adapt

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<v Speaker 2>to that. I said, I was with a young guy

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<v Speaker 2>this afternoon. I coach at a lovely golf course in

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<v Speaker 2>the mid part of England called Delamere Forest. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful golf course. It's it's almost a spiritual experience going

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<v Speaker 2>playing golf around there. It's a wonderful location of anybody

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<v Speaker 2>ever against the chance. But we were out there today

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<v Speaker 2>and we were, you know, we were talking about these

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<v Speaker 2>these these concepts, and he really grasped the idea of

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<v Speaker 2>simplifying his explanations of what actually happened out on the

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<v Speaker 2>golf course, and he said, he said, I can feel

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<v Speaker 2>a sense of calm that I'm not lost in an

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<v Speaker 2>endless search to try to find a solution that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>seem to have a solution. I can keep my eye

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<v Speaker 2>on a couple of things that I can work with.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming back to intention, attention and attitude. So good, so simple.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that you know, I'm well aware that the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom of the golf swing, the golf swing is a circle.

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<v Speaker 1>The bottom of the swing should be in front of

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<v Speaker 1>the ball. So many people don't grasp that is the

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<v Speaker 1>low point. The low point of your swing is in

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<v Speaker 1>front of the ball. So if you're a right handed golfer,

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<v Speaker 1>it's on the left side of the ball. So for me,

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<v Speaker 1>where I put my attention is focusing on the ground

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<v Speaker 1>in front of the ball. Yeah, And so my intention

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<v Speaker 1>is to make contact with the ball then hit the

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<v Speaker 1>ground after that, and I try to keep a good

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<v Speaker 1>attitude about it. But it makes so much more sense.

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<v Speaker 1>But if I'm thinking about my left arm, my left wrist,

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00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.359
<v Speaker 1>you know where my right elbow is, and all these

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00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:22.119
<v Speaker 1>things are in my mind on a regular basis, but

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<v Speaker 1>I try to block them out during the swing. I

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00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.039
<v Speaker 1>know about them. I'll take a practice swing and I'll

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00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:31.440
<v Speaker 1>concentrate on those things. But when I want, when I

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00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:34.720
<v Speaker 1>walk up to the ball, those things are not what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking about are focusing on because if you think

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<v Speaker 1>about your body parts when you're making your swing, you're

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00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:45.119
<v Speaker 1>shaking your head. Good luck, just good luck, good luck.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean just we started with Fred, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure we'll mention Fred a few more times. But I

399
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.920
<v Speaker 2>remember it's twenty five years ago. I went to his

400
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<v Speaker 2>school in Carmel and one of the first things that

401
00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.119
<v Speaker 2>he he got me to do was to see if

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00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:07.119
<v Speaker 2>I could make a golf swing where I did say

403
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.960
<v Speaker 2>something that sounds so simple. He said, can you make

404
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.119
<v Speaker 2>a golf swing where you keep your attention on the

405
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:17.759
<v Speaker 2>club all the way through the swing. You would think

406
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:19.680
<v Speaker 2>that would be the easiest thing in the world. You know,

407
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.720
<v Speaker 2>if we grab a pen, you would think we could

408
00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:23.920
<v Speaker 2>keep our attention on the pen, or if we were

409
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.519
<v Speaker 2>sewing using a knife or whatever, we could do that.

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<v Speaker 2>But I all those years ago, I started it's a

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<v Speaker 2>few shots, and I realized. First of all, I realized

412
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<v Speaker 2>I'd probably never made a golf swing for twenty years

413
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:41.880
<v Speaker 2>were at some level, I wasn't telling myself how to

414
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.440
<v Speaker 2>move a certain part of my body. Twenty odd years,

415
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.119
<v Speaker 2>every golf swing I'd ever made, I was trying to

416
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.359
<v Speaker 2>tell myself to move in a certain way based on

417
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:55.680
<v Speaker 2>the latest information or the latest theory or whatever. So

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00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:58.359
<v Speaker 2>this idea of making a golf swing where I just

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00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:02.039
<v Speaker 2>placed my attention on this golf club and see if

420
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.279
<v Speaker 2>I could keep it there through the through the swing,

421
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:07.640
<v Speaker 2>it was just kind of like wow. First of all,

422
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.079
<v Speaker 2>it was difficult because my mind was pinging around all

423
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.319
<v Speaker 2>over the place. But then I started to realize that,

424
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:17.440
<v Speaker 2>my God, if I could keep my attention there, surely

425
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:21.319
<v Speaker 2>then I can influence what it does. And again, for

426
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:23.680
<v Speaker 2>all the folks listening, would I would recommend that they

427
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.799
<v Speaker 2>try that basic exus I go to the range and

428
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.240
<v Speaker 2>maybe for the first time in your life, get a

429
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 2>bucket of fifty balls, get a seven iron or a

430
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.440
<v Speaker 2>five iron or whatever doesn't matter, the club really and

431
00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:39.119
<v Speaker 2>hit some shots. Well, you don't do anything in your

432
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.160
<v Speaker 2>golf swing. You're not trying to do anything. You're literally

433
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.440
<v Speaker 2>not trying to fix anything. All you're going to do

434
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:48.640
<v Speaker 2>is place your attention on the club and see if

435
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.680
<v Speaker 2>you can observe it, see if you can stay with

436
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:52.599
<v Speaker 2>it for the duration of your swing, and see what

437
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:58.119
<v Speaker 2>that experience is actually like. And for most people it's

438
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:02.920
<v Speaker 2>it's a completely different route go down because if you

439
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:06.440
<v Speaker 2>if you can't pay attention to the thing that's going

440
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:10.680
<v Speaker 2>to influence the ball, surely our attention is in the

441
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.880
<v Speaker 2>wrong place. Now, I know a lot of coaches were

442
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:16.680
<v Speaker 2>listening say, oh, you've got to move your body in

443
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.599
<v Speaker 2>a certain way, You've got to put force into the

444
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:20.400
<v Speaker 2>ground and all those things. I get all of that,

445
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:22.759
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not saying that doesn't have an influence, but

446
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:27.400
<v Speaker 2>come back to it. For most people, the quickest route

447
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to start to get some enjoyment out of this game

448
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:33.160
<v Speaker 2>is to take care of those three factors and impact

449
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>were the club's pointing where you hitting on the club

450
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:38.599
<v Speaker 2>and your interaction with the ground. You know, you just

451
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.680
<v Speaker 2>said about about the low point. The other thing that

452
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:47.440
<v Speaker 2>we've got a capacity to is imagine things. So you know,

453
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:49.359
<v Speaker 2>if I was on the range with you and you said,

454
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm struggling with my low point, the low points behind

455
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.079
<v Speaker 2>the ball, what we could we could maybe place a

456
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.559
<v Speaker 2>team front of the ball, or a coin or something

457
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:59.759
<v Speaker 2>like that. And so Fred, can you collect the ball

458
00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:02.799
<v Speaker 2>and the tea? Now, obviously if you collect the ball

459
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:04.680
<v Speaker 2>and the tea, that's going to move the low point

460
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.240
<v Speaker 2>a little bit further forward. Now you can imagine that

461
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:10.440
<v Speaker 2>when you're on the golf course, you could you could

462
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:13.319
<v Speaker 2>see an imaginary coin or a tea or whatever. So

463
00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:18.960
<v Speaker 2>utilizing the power of imagination as well alongside intention and attention.

464
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:21.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, these are wonderful things that we have the

465
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.319
<v Speaker 2>capacity to do. But because we're so much inclined to

466
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:29.240
<v Speaker 2>just focus on information that other people have given us,

467
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.480
<v Speaker 2>we dule the imagination. We don't use our imagination the body.

468
00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:37.799
<v Speaker 2>You know, think about all the physiological responses that we've

469
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:40.920
<v Speaker 2>all experienced when we've been dreaming at night, which is

470
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.440
<v Speaker 2>a wonderful use of imagination. And you wake up in

471
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.839
<v Speaker 2>a cold sweat because you've imagine that something terrible is

472
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.680
<v Speaker 2>about to happen and the body is physiologically responding to that.

473
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.720
<v Speaker 2>That's the power of imagination. But you know, could we

474
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:57.759
<v Speaker 2>use our imagination in a way on the golf course

475
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:01.160
<v Speaker 2>that actually helps us create more clarity with the intention?

476
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:05.640
<v Speaker 1>You said, the golf ball doesn't know if you're in

477
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.119
<v Speaker 1>a good mood or a bad mood. No, you you

478
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:14.359
<v Speaker 1>know that maybe you're playing partners know that I have

479
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:20.319
<v Speaker 1>found that for me, it's my you know, we both

480
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:25.279
<v Speaker 1>talked to Jane's story many times and her or her

481
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:30.240
<v Speaker 1>desire to get us all to meditate, and it's not

482
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:35.599
<v Speaker 1>something that I I'm most comfortable meditation. My meditation is

483
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.720
<v Speaker 1>on the golf course. Is walking a golf course. And

484
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:40.559
<v Speaker 1>I'll go out maybe even once a week where I'm

485
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:42.920
<v Speaker 1>not calling my friends and I'm not seeing if i

486
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.119
<v Speaker 1>can play with anybody. I'll just meet a couple of

487
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:47.839
<v Speaker 1>people on the on the you know, at the first

488
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:53.440
<v Speaker 1>tea box. But I can use my walk on a

489
00:27:53.440 --> 00:28:00.440
<v Speaker 1>golf course as my meditation. And you know, when if

490
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:02.680
<v Speaker 1>I have the ability to go out when things are

491
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:05.720
<v Speaker 1>not going well or i'm not happy about something. I

492
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:10.319
<v Speaker 1>find that I can get into a better mood by

493
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:15.160
<v Speaker 1>playing golf, which is kind of counter into it because

494
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:20.920
<v Speaker 1>of the frustration that golf presents to us. But it

495
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:24.279
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter. The frustration is going to be there. It's

496
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:28.680
<v Speaker 1>just being able to walk and spend those hours enjoying

497
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:31.039
<v Speaker 1>my time, enjoying being outside.

498
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's interesting you bring up meditation. I mean,

499
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:40.200
<v Speaker 2>I've always struggled with I know all the research. I've

500
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.400
<v Speaker 2>known a Buddhist teacher for many years. You know, it

501
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.559
<v Speaker 2>comes and contributes to my mind. Fact of course, I

502
00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:49.079
<v Speaker 2>firmly believe it is a very beneficial thing to do.

503
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:53.519
<v Speaker 2>But for me sitting in you know, to cliche it,

504
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:56.240
<v Speaker 2>sitting cross legged on a cushion doesn't really work for me.

505
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:58.839
<v Speaker 2>What does work for me when I try and do

506
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:00.559
<v Speaker 2>it every day is you've just said, is to go

507
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:04.079
<v Speaker 2>outside and place my attention on the feeling of my

508
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:07.519
<v Speaker 2>feet on the ground as I'm walking along, and that

509
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:11.039
<v Speaker 2>becomes my mantra that I just I just tune into

510
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the feeling of my feet. Of course, my mind goes

511
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:16.920
<v Speaker 2>somewhere else, but I can bring it back. But I

512
00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:19.119
<v Speaker 2>think that's one of the most beneficial things that a

513
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:21.480
<v Speaker 2>golfer could do, especially in the winter time. You can

514
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:24.920
<v Speaker 2>work on your golf away from the golf course by

515
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.319
<v Speaker 2>doing walking meditation, you know, because we also ignore the

516
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:31.759
<v Speaker 2>fact that when we're playing, and I know a lot

517
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:33.920
<v Speaker 2>in the States is on cards, but if you walk

518
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:37.160
<v Speaker 2>in the golf course, you know, ninety percent of golf

519
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:39.519
<v Speaker 2>isn't golf, you.

520
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Know, more than ninety more than ninety.

521
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably ninety nine percent is the actual time of

522
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.200
<v Speaker 2>activity within the game of golf is a fraction of

523
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.079
<v Speaker 2>the four and a half five hours that you take.

524
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:54.680
<v Speaker 2>So I think the ability to notice your thoughts and

525
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.559
<v Speaker 2>notice you getting off time and you're back in the

526
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:01.279
<v Speaker 2>past or projecting into the future just simp Bringing your

527
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:03.680
<v Speaker 2>attention to the feeling of your feet as you're walking

528
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:06.440
<v Speaker 2>in between shots, I think is a great discipline, and

529
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:09.400
<v Speaker 2>I also think what it does help as well. I

530
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:12.440
<v Speaker 2>think it you know, rhythm, we've all experienced when we're

531
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:14.799
<v Speaker 2>playing well. We tend to feel a certain rhythm in

532
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:18.480
<v Speaker 2>our game, a certain rhythm in our movements. I think

533
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:22.200
<v Speaker 2>those rhythms can often be dictated how we're moving between shorts,

534
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:25.000
<v Speaker 2>and I think when you do walk in meditation, you

535
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:31.000
<v Speaker 2>tend to fall into a more personally effective rhythm of

536
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:34.359
<v Speaker 2>movement that then can transfer into your golf swings. But

537
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:36.680
<v Speaker 2>what we were saying before Fred about going to the

538
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.880
<v Speaker 2>range and placing your attention on the club head, that

539
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.400
<v Speaker 2>is meditation for me, because you know, ultimately, what is meditation,

540
00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.880
<v Speaker 2>it's deciding to pay attention to something on purpose, non judgmentally.

541
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:53.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, you sit and notice your breath, or you

542
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:56.160
<v Speaker 2>notice a candle or a mantra or whatever it is.

543
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.039
<v Speaker 2>That's the same principle what just said with the club

544
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.279
<v Speaker 2>So I think, you know, all these things kind of

545
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.720
<v Speaker 2>tie together in many ways that produce a set of

546
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:08.839
<v Speaker 2>areas of exploration that I think can be fascinating. Yes,

547
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.160
<v Speaker 2>you'll probably play better golf, but there's more benefits in

548
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:14.359
<v Speaker 2>the rest of your life. I mean, my god. You

549
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:18.240
<v Speaker 2>know we were saying before we started that we're living

550
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.680
<v Speaker 2>in an incredibly chaotic world. We're living in a very

551
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.279
<v Speaker 2>very unstable world, and actually, if you go too deep

552
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:28.640
<v Speaker 2>into it, a pretty frightening place that there's so many

553
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:33.000
<v Speaker 2>things potentially could happen or might happen, that golf should

554
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.079
<v Speaker 2>be a sanctuary. The time on the golf course should

555
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.680
<v Speaker 2>be a time away from all that crap and nonsense

556
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 2>that were being fed all the time, and all the misinformation,

557
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.680
<v Speaker 2>all that kind of stuff and the overlord of information.

558
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Golf should be a sanctuary for that. But if you're

559
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.839
<v Speaker 2>taking a busy mind onto the golf course and just

560
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:53.960
<v Speaker 2>feeding it more and more information and more and more thoughts,

561
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.119
<v Speaker 2>it's not a sanctuary. It's a hell. So you're not

562
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.839
<v Speaker 2>getting away from the nonsense in the world. You're bringing

563
00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:01.119
<v Speaker 2>it with you to the golf course.

564
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:09.640
<v Speaker 1>With so many of the people that I've had on

565
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:13.599
<v Speaker 1>the program talking about getting yourself in the right attitude

566
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:18.839
<v Speaker 1>and the right mindset, we get to flow state. And

567
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.319
<v Speaker 1>anytime that conversation comes up about flow state, which is

568
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I think we're going. No one's talking about their mechanics.

569
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.720
<v Speaker 1>That's never the topic when flow state. When someone's talking

570
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:34.279
<v Speaker 1>about the round they had that just everything worked that day.

571
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.880
<v Speaker 1>We have to remember that we have made all those

572
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:42.559
<v Speaker 1>shots before. You know, just because you've done it twice

573
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.400
<v Speaker 1>on one round, it's not a time to start changing

574
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.880
<v Speaker 1>what you do. Just get into your mind and tap

575
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:53.599
<v Speaker 1>into the place where you've been and stop trying to

576
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 1>change things all because this is how golf works. It's

577
00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:59.160
<v Speaker 1>not going to be the same every time, and you're

578
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:00.640
<v Speaker 1>not going to improve with every round.

579
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:03.720
<v Speaker 2>But I also think that ties in as well. Fred,

580
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.440
<v Speaker 2>It's the same thing in terms of the mental game

581
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.759
<v Speaker 2>as well. You know, WHI Whilst the flow state is

582
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:13.039
<v Speaker 2>great and nice and wonderful, I think very often people

583
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:15.400
<v Speaker 2>can fall into the trap of trying to get into

584
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.319
<v Speaker 2>the flow state, whereby there trying to control the thoughts,

585
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:22.480
<v Speaker 2>They're trying to control their experience. They're trying to control

586
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.799
<v Speaker 2>their emotions so much that it becomes a full time

587
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:29.960
<v Speaker 2>job trying to do all of that. Now my understanding,

588
00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:32.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, probably twenty years ago, when I first started

589
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:34.279
<v Speaker 2>with all this, I would I would give people a

590
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:38.160
<v Speaker 2>lot of techniques to try and control the thinking. I'm

591
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 2>completely the opposite of that now because I do understand,

592
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:43.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, I have no idea what I'm going to

593
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:46.160
<v Speaker 2>think next. I mean, this thing inside between my years

594
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.480
<v Speaker 2>comes up with the most random nonsense most of the time.

595
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.200
<v Speaker 2>But what I would say is now I've got a

596
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 2>little bit better with not so much trying to change

597
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.559
<v Speaker 2>my thoughts, but the relationship to those thoughts. And I

598
00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:03.359
<v Speaker 2>think to understand when you go and play golf. You know,

599
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:07.079
<v Speaker 2>from day to day, we're different, we have different triggers,

600
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.679
<v Speaker 2>we've interacted with people differently. To go out on the

601
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:11.719
<v Speaker 2>golf course and feel that you have to be in

602
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:17.519
<v Speaker 2>a perfect state, it's probably the biggest block to that state. Whereby,

603
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:22.519
<v Speaker 2>if you can go out and you can realize everybody

604
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:27.519
<v Speaker 2>listening to this has had this experience whereby they've felt great,

605
00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:31.239
<v Speaker 2>they've seen the shot, they've done everything perfectly before the shot,

606
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:33.480
<v Speaker 2>they're convinced it's going to be a good shot, and

607
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:38.239
<v Speaker 2>they hit its sideways. They've also conversely had the experience

608
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:41.239
<v Speaker 2>whereby they're pretty uncomfortable, they might feel a little bit nervous,

609
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:43.320
<v Speaker 2>they're not even certain of what they're trying to do

610
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:45.639
<v Speaker 2>with the shot, but they've still managed to pull off

611
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:48.920
<v Speaker 2>a good shot. So what I'm getting at, it's a

612
00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:51.760
<v Speaker 2>bit of a paradox, really is that don't think that

613
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:55.119
<v Speaker 2>everything has to be perfect for you to take a good

614
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:59.679
<v Speaker 2>golf shot. It's amazing how efficient the body is following

615
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:03.280
<v Speaker 2>through an intention. If that is what you then bring

616
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:07.679
<v Speaker 2>to the shot eventually, So you know, don't get hung

617
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.239
<v Speaker 2>up on trying to be perfect mentally anymore that you

618
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:12.280
<v Speaker 2>should get up hung up on trying to be perfect.

619
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:19.599
<v Speaker 1>Technically, there is no perfect in golf or life, right,

620
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:25.400
<v Speaker 1>There is no perfect. So often we'll talk about We'll

621
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:32.159
<v Speaker 1>have fitness people on and we'll talk about aging and

622
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:35.039
<v Speaker 1>playing golf and how your body reacts and what you

623
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.360
<v Speaker 1>need to do to keep your body in golf shape

624
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:41.079
<v Speaker 1>the best you can. But what we don't talk about yet,

625
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:44.039
<v Speaker 1>and I really want to throw it to you, is

626
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:50.079
<v Speaker 1>aging and the impact on your mindset. I mean, I

627
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.440
<v Speaker 1>was playing yesterday with two gentlemen that were from out

628
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.760
<v Speaker 1>of town, and we had a fine time. Didn't talk

629
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.119
<v Speaker 1>much because they were heavy their own game and they're,

630
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:03.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, from a different part of the country. But

631
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:05.440
<v Speaker 1>they were in town to play golf and they wanted

632
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:09.440
<v Speaker 1>to know another golf course, and so I gave them

633
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:11.159
<v Speaker 1>a suggestion. I said, oh, but you know, there's this

634
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:14.199
<v Speaker 1>other course. I could not come up with the name

635
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.599
<v Speaker 1>of it, and I play there at least once a month,

636
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:20.480
<v Speaker 1>and I was like just completely drawing a blank. And

637
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm attributing to that to oh, okay, I'm getting close

638
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:28.119
<v Speaker 1>to seventy years old. My next birthday, I'm seventy years old.

639
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.519
<v Speaker 1>Names are not going to be flowing through my head

640
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.679
<v Speaker 1>as regularly as they used to be. But how does

641
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:42.400
<v Speaker 1>the aging process impact your mindset on golf or does it?

642
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.199
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the things I don't believe I've

643
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:49.559
<v Speaker 2>ever had Ellen Langer on your show. Well, you must

644
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:54.880
<v Speaker 2>get her on Ellen Langer, but I think she wrote

645
00:36:54.920 --> 00:37:02.360
<v Speaker 2>written numerous books on in a Mindful Life, and she's

646
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.480
<v Speaker 2>talked so much about how we can get drawn into

647
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:11.280
<v Speaker 2>the power of story. That you know, if you can't

648
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:15.320
<v Speaker 2>remember something and you say, oh, I know the name

649
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:17.320
<v Speaker 2>of that golf course, why can't I remember it? And

650
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.400
<v Speaker 2>the story kicks in I can't remember it because I'm seventy,

651
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.320
<v Speaker 2>then that can almost become a self fulfilling prophecy. There

652
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:26.199
<v Speaker 2>have been a lot of occasion spread when you were

653
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:29.719
<v Speaker 2>twenty thirty, forty fifty, and sixty when you couldn't remember stuff,

654
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.599
<v Speaker 2>but the story doesn't necessarily kick in. Then that that's

655
00:37:32.679 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 2>due to the aging process. Now, I'm not saying there's

656
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.199
<v Speaker 2>not declined for us all, which clearly there is, but

657
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:42.679
<v Speaker 2>I think we've got to be very careful of not

658
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:48.000
<v Speaker 2>creating that self fulfilling prophecy of a story. But I

659
00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:52.679
<v Speaker 2>think that's why golf back to our sanctuary idea. I

660
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:57.559
<v Speaker 2>think that's why golf doesn't promote itself enough to the

661
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.880
<v Speaker 2>older generation of how important it is, not just from

662
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:07.320
<v Speaker 2>a physical perspective, but from a cognitive perspective. That if

663
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:09.360
<v Speaker 2>you if you look at golf, if you go out

664
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:12.559
<v Speaker 2>on the golf course and see that golf is between

665
00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:18.760
<v Speaker 2>sixty five and ninety five separate puzzles to solve, that

666
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:21.360
<v Speaker 2>in itself is a wonderful way of going out on

667
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:24.199
<v Speaker 2>the golf course, staying present to each shot and enjoying

668
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:29.199
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity. And you know, puzzles and quizzes are popular

669
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:32.079
<v Speaker 2>the world over, but nobody would sit there with a

670
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:36.599
<v Speaker 2>crossword and if they couldn't get seven across, get really

671
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:39.440
<v Speaker 2>annoyed with themselves and call themselves an idiot and throw

672
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:41.880
<v Speaker 2>the paper down and throw the pen away and storm

673
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:44.159
<v Speaker 2>off somewhere else. They would just go and try and

674
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:46.239
<v Speaker 2>solve the next puzzle and see if they could get

675
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.039
<v Speaker 2>a little bit closer to it. So I think when

676
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.000
<v Speaker 2>you start to look at the frame of reference that golf,

677
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:54.519
<v Speaker 2>you go out there and it's a wonderful puzzle to solve,

678
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:59.039
<v Speaker 2>that is a great creature of creator of curiosity. And

679
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:03.800
<v Speaker 2>I think then really understanding how important other people are.

680
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:05.719
<v Speaker 2>And I know it's a cliche to say it, but

681
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:09.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, can you genuinely enjoy and engage in some

682
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:15.239
<v Speaker 2>conversations that you perhaps wouldn't maybe ordinarily go towards? Golf

683
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:18.679
<v Speaker 2>provides that environment, doesn't it. And I think to see

684
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:21.880
<v Speaker 2>that preciousness of opportunity when you go and play golf

685
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:27.039
<v Speaker 2>of a genuinely interesting conversation with somebody. Not not always

686
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.079
<v Speaker 2>everybody's up for that, but it's a medium where it

687
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:33.480
<v Speaker 2>can come out. You know. I've had some amazing conversations

688
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:36.840
<v Speaker 2>walking with clients on a golf course that have gone

689
00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:39.639
<v Speaker 2>far away from their golf and trying to hate it straight.

690
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 2>And that is the wonderful nature of the game if

691
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:47.159
<v Speaker 2>we actually are open to that, to that potential adventure.

692
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:51.840
<v Speaker 1>So frequently my wife like, would you guys talk about

693
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:55.239
<v Speaker 1>on the golf course today? It's like our last shot

694
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:59.480
<v Speaker 1>the Actually, no, you don't talk about anything. I'm sure

695
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:02.480
<v Speaker 1>we do. That's not what the focus is. We're talking

696
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:04.440
<v Speaker 1>about our last shot in our next shot.

697
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, and sometimes not sometimes my experiences, the

698
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:13.079
<v Speaker 2>more we actually are prepared to be I know, one

699
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:17.480
<v Speaker 2>of the things that Fred said that he years ago

700
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:20.239
<v Speaker 2>said this idea about could you go out and play

701
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:24.000
<v Speaker 2>golf and make a commitment to being a great playing partner.

702
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:27.840
<v Speaker 2>And it sounds whimsy, cold, tree hugging and all the

703
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:28.159
<v Speaker 2>rest of.

704
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.280
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, Well we're both from California, but yeah,

705
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:32.559
<v Speaker 1>that sounds awesome.

706
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:37.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, make a commitment to be a great playing partner. Now,

707
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.039
<v Speaker 2>the win win with that is that you go out

708
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.639
<v Speaker 2>and if you're intending to be a great playing partner,

709
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:46.480
<v Speaker 2>you're probably going to be a little bit less selfish

710
00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:50.760
<v Speaker 2>and self absorbed, a bit more self less. And if

711
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.760
<v Speaker 2>we're self less, perhaps we're not so much in our

712
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:56.400
<v Speaker 2>own head trying to figure everything out to the nth

713
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:58.599
<v Speaker 2>degree as we're going around, we're a little bit more

714
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.519
<v Speaker 2>engaged with other people. My experience is when people have

715
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:06.039
<v Speaker 2>experimented with that as a commitment, it's not always the case,

716
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.039
<v Speaker 2>but they generally play better because they're not so weighted

717
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:12.039
<v Speaker 2>down by their own self reference.

718
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it makes total sense.

719
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:17.559
<v Speaker 2>I love that. And the worst thing that happens with that, Fred,

720
00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:20.400
<v Speaker 2>you actually enjoy the round more because you do genuinely

721
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:21.719
<v Speaker 2>engage with other people.

722
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, great concept, great idea. You were going to on

723
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:32.400
<v Speaker 1>any New Books podcast taking up enough of your time?

724
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:35.559
<v Speaker 2>Gary and myself, Gary Nichol and myself we wrote the

725
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:38.039
<v Speaker 2>Lost Art series and we made a promise to ourselves

726
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:40.719
<v Speaker 2>that when we've done the third one, that that was

727
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:42.239
<v Speaker 2>going to be it wasn't going to be a turn

728
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:44.840
<v Speaker 2>out to be Rocky four, five and six or whatever.

729
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:47.280
<v Speaker 2>So we kind of feel like we kind of felt

730
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:49.239
<v Speaker 2>like we said all we need to say for a while.

731
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:52.559
<v Speaker 2>So I've not got anything planned in the in the

732
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:57.079
<v Speaker 2>in the immediate future, but I am really interested in

733
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:00.119
<v Speaker 2>these ideas that we've talked about today about skills and

734
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:03.280
<v Speaker 2>developing skills and then being able to access those skills.

735
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:07.159
<v Speaker 2>And I think overall, if I've got a mission in

736
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:09.840
<v Speaker 2>go for it is to try and simplify things todayn

737
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:13.559
<v Speaker 2>to some some workable concepts. Not I look back for

738
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:16.159
<v Speaker 2>in my career. I look back in the early days,

739
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:19.119
<v Speaker 2>and it was it was well meaning, but the but

740
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:21.960
<v Speaker 2>the sole purpose of my coaching in the early days

741
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:24.840
<v Speaker 2>was to sound clever and and to and to and

742
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.400
<v Speaker 2>to throw big words at people and show the people

743
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:30.719
<v Speaker 2>how much knowledge I've got about the game. And I

744
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:32.840
<v Speaker 2>think almost every coach probably has to go through that

745
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:35.159
<v Speaker 2>at some point where there's there's a little bit of

746
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.119
<v Speaker 2>ego kicking in. I'm not saying I don't have an

747
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.639
<v Speaker 2>ego now, because everybody has an ego to some degree,

748
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:45.559
<v Speaker 2>but I genuinely feel that as I hopefully I've got

749
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.679
<v Speaker 2>a little bit better at this, I don't help everybody, obviously,

750
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:50.679
<v Speaker 2>but as I've got a little bit more competent this,

751
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:55.519
<v Speaker 2>at this, I am willing to say less and and

752
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:58.360
<v Speaker 2>and being willing to say less I found is actually

753
00:42:58.440 --> 00:42:59.440
<v Speaker 2>very very productive.

754
00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:03.480
<v Speaker 1>And then you started a podcast, and.

755
00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Then I started a podcast, and people probably listening to that,

756
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:09.039
<v Speaker 2>I say, what rubbish's talking. He's waffled away for an

757
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:11.199
<v Speaker 2>hour there, but hopefully they get the drift of what

758
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually going after. In terms of the actual interaction

759
00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:19.199
<v Speaker 2>with clients. It's trying can I simplify down to such

760
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.920
<v Speaker 2>a point where the attention settles in one or two

761
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:27.360
<v Speaker 2>key areas that do start to produce results. And I

762
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.159
<v Speaker 2>firmly believe when you understand these things, you don't have

763
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:34.559
<v Speaker 2>to wait for months and working on extensive swing changes

764
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:38.599
<v Speaker 2>and complicated moves. You can start to tap into that

765
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:42.480
<v Speaker 2>innate genius that we all have and enjoy the experience

766
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.119
<v Speaker 2>of go for More.

767
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, I truly appreciate the fact that you're doing a

768
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:49.119
<v Speaker 1>show that really has focused on the mental part of

769
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the game. That was one of the initial intentions of

770
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:54.159
<v Speaker 1>this show. That's why we came up with a name

771
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Golf Smarter, is to focus on the mental aspects of

772
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:04.079
<v Speaker 1>it and strategic But my I, you know, you're nine

773
00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:07.000
<v Speaker 1>hundred and seventy eight episodes. I can't talk about the

774
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:09.360
<v Speaker 1>same thing over and over, so I try to cover

775
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.880
<v Speaker 1>a wide variety of topics in golf. But I really

776
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.920
<v Speaker 1>am happy that you are focused on getting people like

777
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Fred Shoemaker and Jim Waldron and Jane's story, John Sherman,

778
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Scott Fassett and the Martin Chuck is he Justice, all

779
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:27.480
<v Speaker 1>these people that we've had on but you really focus

780
00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:31.599
<v Speaker 1>on And that's part of what I love about podcasting

781
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:36.320
<v Speaker 1>is that if there is a part that is two

782
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:42.119
<v Speaker 1>tent too danse for you to absorb, pause, go back,

783
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 1>listen to it again, listen to it multiple times, and

784
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:51.079
<v Speaker 1>you've got a podcast that commands that attention. Congratulations and

785
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:51.480
<v Speaker 1>thank you.

786
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:55.079
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for It's always great, always great to chat with you.

787
00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:58.559
<v Speaker 2>You every time I see you, Ali, It goes by

788
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:00.679
<v Speaker 2>but you never look at any old would advert for

789
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:04.280
<v Speaker 2>the Californian lifestyle. So I said, that was great to

790
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:13.400
<v Speaker 2>chat with him. H