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Speaker 1: Hi, This is Gary EMUs from Sale Morgan and I

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play at Creekside Golf Course. This is Golf Smarter number

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ninety seven eight.

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Speaker 2: Could you go out and play golf and make a

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commitment to being a great playing partner? And it sounds whimsical,

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tree hugging it up and all the rest of it.

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You know, the win win with that is that you

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go out and if you're intending to be a great

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playing partner, you're probably going to be a little bit

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less selfish and self absorbed, a bit more self less.

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And if we're self less, perhaps we're not so much

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in our own head trying to figure everything out to

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the nth degree. As we're going around, we're a little

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bit more engaged with other people. My experience is when

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people have experimented with that as a commitment, they generally

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play better. And the worst thing that happens with that,

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fred you actually enjoy the round more because you do

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genuinely engage with other people.

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Speaker 1: Make a commitment to being a great playing partner. The

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benefits will amaze you. With Carl Morris, this is Golf Smarter,

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sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to

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help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.

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Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf

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Smarter podcast. Carl.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Fred, it's wonderful to see you and great to

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be back. Always enjoy our conversations.

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Speaker 1: Always enjoy the conversations. Always learn so much from you.

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And I was looking back, this is at least the

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fifth time that you've been on. The first time was

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back and we've been doing this since twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Wow, wow, it was as many times as I'm a

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repeater Fender.

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Speaker 1: Then y as you are. But also I don't know

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if it started after we started doing this, But you

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started your own podcast that's doing quite well, and you've

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been You've got a lot of episodes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think I'm way behind you, Fred, But

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I've done about six and a half years now, which

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is which is not a bad effort. I think, as

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we were saying before we started, there's an awful lot

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of people who start podcast, but to keep to that

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commitment weekly is a fair ol task to stick to,

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isn't it. But I don't know about you. I've got

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to the point now where I would feel incredibly guilty

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if I didn't do the things that I needed to

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do to put it out week but week by week

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and above anything else, right, I just genuinely enjoy doing

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what we're doing here because I mean I'm a coach

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first and foremost, but I mean that's quite a lonely

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place to be at times. You know, you just go

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about your own business and you see your own clients,

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but to share ideas with other people, I just find

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that it's a wonderful hobby.

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Speaker 1: Really well, I'm very flattered by looking down the list

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of people that you've featured on your podcast called The

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Mind Caddy, which I think is an incredible name, and

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there's a lot of folks that we've shared.

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Speaker 2: I think Jim Waldron is probably the one who's been

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on most of many of your shows, and it was

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a guy called Justin Tango. I don't know who's been

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who's been on your podcast, but if you haven't had

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him on, he's a wonderful coach in Asia. And he

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actually introduced me to to Jim and we've really we

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really hit it off. We've become kindred spirits. Really. I

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can sit and talk with Jim with Jim and then

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two always disappears very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Very quickly, and Justin was on here, and I think

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I was the one that introduced them.

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Speaker 2: The Jim Waldron was it really really?

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Speaker 1: I think so right, But that doesn't matter. But Jane's story,

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John Sherman, Raymond Pryor, Scott Fassett, Fred Shoemaker, Gary Nick.

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Of course, what you bring him wherever you go, I

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would love to hear. You know, when I first started

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approaching Fred Shoemaker to be on the podcast, he'd never

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heard of podcasting and he didn't know what we were doing.

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And he did a couple with me, but then he

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was like, man, I'm not so I was so excited

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to see that he was on your show. Share with

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me if you will. Some of the teachings that Fred

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is doing now, were, you know, versus fifteen eighteen years

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ago when I had him. I'm sure it's advanced because

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he's so thoughtful.

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Speaker 2: I think Fred, eventually we'll go down and we'll look back.

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As Fred had been one of, if not the most

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influential coach in golf in the past twenty twenty five years.

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I really don't think he's been given the mainstream credit

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that he fully deserves, maybe because he's never been particularly

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interested in being on tour and working with tour players

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and things like that. He plays very much to the

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beat of his own drum. But you know, funnily enough,

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he was on last week's podcast on my podcast a

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week before last, and I look forward to him with

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a like like us. We sort of have an annual conversation.

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It's a bit like it's a bit like Thanksgiving or

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Christmas or whatever. It comes around once a year, and

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he's gracious enough to come on. His wife, Joe, is

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a lovely person. She facilitates that. But every time I

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listen to Fred, every time I do a podcast with him,

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I generally play it back three or four more times,

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which I don't really do with too many other guests,

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because there's so many wonderful insights there, and he is

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such a deep thinker. I think for me, one of

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the big things that has influenced my thinking is Spread's

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idea that when you go out on the golf course

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is how does the golf course occur to you? Does

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the golf course occur to you as a place of

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opportunity or is it a place of threat? And I

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think for most people we've fallen into the trap of

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the golf course unfortunately becoming a place of threat. And

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if the golf courses occurring to you as a threat,

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there's going to be a physiological response to that. So

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you know, we can be trying to do all kinds

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of things in our swing and work on all kinds

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of stuff, but we're if we're physiologically threatened by the

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environment called golf, we're probably not going to perform at

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our best. And no amount of breathing techniques and things

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like that, whilst they all have the value and the place,

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it really is understanding how you are perceiving that environment,

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how you're perceiving the game of golf, which I think

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then lends itself to that key question that we probably

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don't ask enough as golfers. Why do we play? Why

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is it that we do this thing called golf? And

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I think when I ask players that question you very

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often they'll answer it. And I realized that the answer

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is not their genuine answer, It's an answer that's been

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given to them by other people. And when you press

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them two or three levels down and you really get

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to the root of white people play golf. I think

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if you can tap into that, you can then create

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something that you can go out and make a commitment

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to you when you actually play golf, and I think

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that's one of the roots to change the perception of

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golf from being a threat to an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, regarding his wife, Joe, the irony

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of this is just too overwhelming for me. That my

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wife's name is Joanne. I call her Joe, so it's

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Fred and Joe, which is the same that he has.

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And strangely enough, I don't know if you know, mister Rogers,

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mister he was a TV he did kids shows for

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decades in the United States, and his wife was Joanne

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as well. Okay, that's enough of that. But just recently,

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and boy must have come from the deepest part of

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my mind with Fred Schumaker, but just recently I realized

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that and came up with the idea of that the

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tea box is a meeting place of uncertainty and the

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green is a meeting place of hope, and that everything

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in between is like, Okay, I'll see you there.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like, at least i'll see you on the green

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or I'll see you at the tea box, but everything

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in the middle is like you're on your own. But yeah,

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a meeting place of uncertainty is because when you step

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up to the t it's like, where am I supposed

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to go? What am I supposed to do? Which club

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am I supposed to hit? I'm not sure I'm not

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hitting this club. Well today I'm feeling oh, I'm feeling confident,

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but there's that bunker in the middle. So definitely there's

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a lot of uncertainty when you step up to the tee.

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But when you're stepping up on the green, the putting green,

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it's like, I hope I can do this. I think

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I can do this. I want to do this, and

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I'll know if not, I'll get close. Right, It's a

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meeting place of hope.

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Speaker 2: But I think the points on that really is to

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me so relevant that when we can eventually and I

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say eventually, make peace with the chaos and uncertainty, that

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golf will always bring a great paradox kicks in that

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when we're okay with the uncertainty, it tends to settle down.

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I think most of us we start playing golf in

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the early days, and you know, we we go out

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there and we play and we're not creating too many

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expectations certainly, if we play as a kid, we're just

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we want to whack a golf ball and play. But

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I think for most people that comes a point whereby

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there's a sense of identity on the line when you

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go and play golf, and a sense of your self worth,

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and all those things tend to kick in, and then

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what we tend to try and do is protect ourselves

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from the feelings that bad shots give us. And the

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search to protect ourselves from those feelings then tends to

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fall into a couple of categories, the main one being technique.

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That if I can just get the right technique, if

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I can just be given the silver bullet, if somebody

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can bestow me with the wisdom of putting my club

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in a certain place, or swinging in a certain way,

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or moving my body in a certain way, surely that

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will protect me from poor golf. Well, I'm not sure

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if any of your listeners can ring in and say

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they've reached that promised land, But my experience is that

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it's a fruitless search. Not saying you shouldn't work on

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developing your skills, obviously that's a big part of it,

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but nothing will ever protect us from hitting poor shots.

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But actually, if we can get to the stage where

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we can develop an acceptance for all outcomes, to me,

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that is the genuine foundation of confidence. You know, Raymond

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Pryor has been on both I shows, who's a great psychologist.

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He talks about stable confidence, and you know, essentially stable

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confidence only emerges from a willingness to accept the variety

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of outcome.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned about the acceptance of results, which is so hard.

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Now we're talking. We're here to talk to amateur golfers,

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to recreational golfers who definitely want to get better, they

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definitely want to learn more, but there's this acceptance of Okay,

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so I'm not going to be playing on the tour. Okay,

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I may not win my club championship, but I still

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want to enjoy the game. And what we have a

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difficult time accepting as recreational golfers is that we make

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bad shots and you get upset with ourselves. But then

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if you watch the game at the highest level, you

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see that they make mistakes as well, but they get

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out of it. They don't carry it with them. It's

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the acceptance of the results and then working from there

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and their skill set as such. And let's not forget

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that they do this seven days a week, ten hours

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a day, okay, six days a week. Give them one

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day off, but because they're traveling. But all golfers make

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bad shots, no matter how good your your skills are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you begin to understand that, Freddie,

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the acceptance isn't in any way resignation. We're not We're

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not saying, for one minute, be happy, you know, We're

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not saying for one minute stand there knocking out of

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bounds and grin and say, well, it's a lovely day

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and I'm glad to be alive, And that would be

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insulting people's intelligence. It's a it's a willingness to embrace

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the fact that the game is inherently incredibly difficult. You know,

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when we're talking about impact, you know, if you're going

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to knock it thirty forty yards off line, off the tea,

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we're talking about a club face that's probably three degrees

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closed at ninety five one hundred miles an hour. That

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is infinitesimal degrees of difference between down the middle and

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in the water or in the trees. But I think

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then it comes into an area I've looked at an

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awful lot these last few years is to really understand

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that if you're going to get the best out of

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your golfing experience, it's about focusing on devel up in

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certain skills and then being able to access those skills

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out on the golf course. Now, what does that mean?

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Well to me, there's a big difference between focusing on

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a skill and focusing on a form or a function

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in the sense that most people get drawn into how

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does the backswing look? Or is it too flat? Is

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it too upright? Am I doing this with my hips right?

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So we get drawn into the esthetics of the swing.

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Now we can argue then endlessly about what is correct,

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what is right, whose model's best, whose theory is best?

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But ultimately, what is the only thing that we know

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for certain that supplies information to the golf ball as

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to what to do well? It's the golf club at

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impact is the only thing that supplies the information to

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the ball. The ball doesn't know whether you're in a

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good mood or bad mood, whether you've been nice to

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your wife, or you've been a good person, or you

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anxious or calm or whatever. The only thing that the

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golf board responds to is the physics and geometry of impact.

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So surely we should be spending more time developing the

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skill of influencing impact now, you know, shout out to

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a friend and colleague, Adam Young John Sherman, who's been

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on my show, who shares sort of similar ideas on

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this that you know, if you are focusing your attention

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on developing the skills and impact, I believe, then you're

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at what I call the scene of the crime. You're

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actually investigating what's gone on. You're not in the I

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don't know. In the States, we have the board game

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called Cludo where there's a murder in a house and

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it's in different rooms, and you know, the murders in

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the library with a dagger by whoever it is. You

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need to be in the right room to study the crime,

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and I think the right room to study the crime

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for golf is impact. And you know the guys and

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lady listening this winter time. Even if you if you

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did something that sounds so simple, but you set off

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on the quest to develop the skill of a centered strike.

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As obvious as it sounds, just hitting more golf shops,

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hitting more balls out the middle of the club would

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transform your experience because flashing on out the middle of

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the club just feels inherently good. And yet I would

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I would guess an awful lot of people tuning in

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are putting their attention almost anywhere other than impact, and

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their attention is on almost everything other than what the

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golf club is doing to influence impact, because there's so

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much out there about how the body should move and

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how the risks should move. I'm not saying that's not

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a factor, but if you're not, if you're not clear

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on your impact conditions, you're not developing skill. You're focusing

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on form, right.

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Speaker 1: But isn't the form get you to that moment of impact?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's one route you can work on the form.

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My experience has been years ago when I sort of

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coached the swing full time, I would get a lot

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of players who look better in the swing but didn't

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improve because they didn't improve their impact conditions. However, when

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you start using one of the most powerful mental forces

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of all, which is intention, If I have an intention,

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so for instance, we're talking about center strike, if I

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know that I'm hitting the ball off the toe regularly,

296
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that's my pattern, and I do some practice where I

297
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intentionally hit the ball off the heel as a result

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of that intention. The genius of my body, which has

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got up in my body, everybody's body, the genius of

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the body, which has got a few billion years of

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evolution behind it. It's amazing how the body organizes movement

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around an intention. So does the form improve as a

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result of intention, sometimes not always. But what does improve

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as a result of intention is your impact conditions. And

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if your impact conditions improve, it's as simple as this.

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If your impact conditions improve, you will be a better golfer.

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It's it's it's it's as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, intention is huge. I've always like to keep that

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forefront of my mind. Is what's my intent on the

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next shot? Which I always believe is the hardest shot

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in golf, is the next one?

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Speaker 2: I think linking two forces Fred Gary Nicol and myself

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who wrote the Lost Art Books. We probably mentioned it

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last time, but I think it burns repeating. The big

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three of the mental game for us is intention, attention,

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and attitude. So what is it what is it that

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you in tend to do? And again, back to where

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we've been so far in this conversation, my intention is

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to hit it more towards the heel. Okay, well, word,

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do I need to place my attention? Well, I could

321
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place my attention on my right elbow, or my left paper,

322
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or my right knee or whatever. That's probably not been

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no influence impact that much. But if I place my

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attention on the club, now I can with my attention

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that I can influence my intention. And then what attitude

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do I bring to that? Do I bring an attitude

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of perfectionism or do I bring an attitude of curiosity.

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Speaker 1: Or fear or fear?

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Speaker 2: You know, curiosity is a great antidote to fear if

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I can be curious about what actually happens as opposed

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to being scared of what's going on. Because see, the

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problem is spread is when you're on the golf course

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and the ball isn't doing what you like, which is

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most of the time for most of us, is that

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the questquestion that we asked straight away is what did

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I do wrong? And if the question what did I

337
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do wrong? Triggers endless search is in terms of technique,

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I'm literally always going to be all over the place

339
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based on lots of opinions. But if I hit a

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shot offline and I asked the question, what did I

341
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do wrong? Was the club face open or closed? Did

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I hit it out the middle or did heated out

343
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of the toe? What was the interaction with the ground?

344
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You know those those big three. You know, every shot,

345
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every shot that you hit that you don't like, will

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be down probably to one, not probably will be down

347
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to one of those three factors. And I think, if

348
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the explanation that we give to when a ball goes

349
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offline is more and closed for one of a better word,

350
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if it's not, if it's not all over the place,

351
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if it's not with lots of different opinions. If if

352
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I can keep my attention on three possible things that

353
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cause golf balls to go off line, I'm now playing

354
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a much simpler game. I'm now able to deal with

355
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the variety of outcomes. My acceptance levels improve, and I

356
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start to influence the things that really matter. So I

357
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start to play a game where I developed a bit

358
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more resiliency, and perhaps more importantly, the big skill is adaptability.

359
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Is that can I notice what's happening and then adapt

360
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to that. I said, I was with a young guy

361
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this afternoon. I coach at a lovely golf course in

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the mid part of England called Delamere Forest. It's a

363
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beautiful golf course. It's it's almost a spiritual experience going

364
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playing golf around there. It's a wonderful location of anybody

365
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,480
ever against the chance. But we were out there today

366
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and we were, you know, we were talking about these

367
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these these concepts, and he really grasped the idea of

368
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simplifying his explanations of what actually happened out on the

369
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golf course, and he said, he said, I can feel

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a sense of calm that I'm not lost in an

371
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endless search to try to find a solution that doesn't

372
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,759
seem to have a solution. I can keep my eye

373
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on a couple of things that I can work with.

374
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Speaker 1: Coming back to intention, attention and attitude. So good, so simple.

375
00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:28,279
I know that you know, I'm well aware that the

376
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bottom of the golf swing, the golf swing is a circle.

377
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The bottom of the swing should be in front of

378
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the ball. So many people don't grasp that is the

379
00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:42,079
low point. The low point of your swing is in

380
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,240
front of the ball. So if you're a right handed golfer,

381
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,279
it's on the left side of the ball. So for me,

382
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:54,079
where I put my attention is focusing on the ground

383
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,720
in front of the ball. Yeah, And so my intention

384
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is to make contact with the ball then hit the

385
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,680
ground after that, and I try to keep a good

386
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attitude about it. But it makes so much more sense.

387
00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:16,559
But if I'm thinking about my left arm, my left wrist,

388
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you know where my right elbow is, and all these

389
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,119
things are in my mind on a regular basis, but

390
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,640
I try to block them out during the swing. I

391
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,039
know about them. I'll take a practice swing and I'll

392
00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:31,440
concentrate on those things. But when I want, when I

393
00:22:31,599 --> 00:22:34,720
walk up to the ball, those things are not what

394
00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:38,000
I'm thinking about are focusing on because if you think

395
00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:40,839
about your body parts when you're making your swing, you're

396
00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:45,119
shaking your head. Good luck, just good luck, good luck.

397
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean just we started with Fred, and I'm

398
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sure we'll mention Fred a few more times. But I

399
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,920
remember it's twenty five years ago. I went to his

400
00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,759
school in Carmel and one of the first things that

401
00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:03,119
he he got me to do was to see if

402
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,119
I could make a golf swing where I did say

403
00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:09,960
something that sounds so simple. He said, can you make

404
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,119
a golf swing where you keep your attention on the

405
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,759
club all the way through the swing. You would think

406
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:19,680
that would be the easiest thing in the world. You know,

407
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,720
if we grab a pen, you would think we could

408
00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:23,920
keep our attention on the pen, or if we were

409
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,519
sewing using a knife or whatever, we could do that.

410
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,599
But I all those years ago, I started it's a

411
00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:33,960
few shots, and I realized. First of all, I realized

412
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,160
I'd probably never made a golf swing for twenty years

413
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,880
were at some level, I wasn't telling myself how to

414
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,440
move a certain part of my body. Twenty odd years,

415
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,119
every golf swing I'd ever made, I was trying to

416
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,359
tell myself to move in a certain way based on

417
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,680
the latest information or the latest theory or whatever. So

418
00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:58,359
this idea of making a golf swing where I just

419
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:02,039
placed my attention on this golf club and see if

420
00:24:02,039 --> 00:24:04,279
I could keep it there through the through the swing,

421
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,640
it was just kind of like wow. First of all,

422
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,079
it was difficult because my mind was pinging around all

423
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,319
over the place. But then I started to realize that,

424
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,440
my God, if I could keep my attention there, surely

425
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,319
then I can influence what it does. And again, for

426
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,680
all the folks listening, would I would recommend that they

427
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:26,799
try that basic exus I go to the range and

428
00:24:26,839 --> 00:24:30,240
maybe for the first time in your life, get a

429
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,599
bucket of fifty balls, get a seven iron or a

430
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,440
five iron or whatever doesn't matter, the club really and

431
00:24:35,559 --> 00:24:39,119
hit some shots. Well, you don't do anything in your

432
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,160
golf swing. You're not trying to do anything. You're literally

433
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,440
not trying to fix anything. All you're going to do

434
00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:48,640
is place your attention on the club and see if

435
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,680
you can observe it, see if you can stay with

436
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,599
it for the duration of your swing, and see what

437
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,119
that experience is actually like. And for most people it's

438
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,920
it's a completely different route go down because if you

439
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:06,440
if you can't pay attention to the thing that's going

440
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:10,680
to influence the ball, surely our attention is in the

441
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,880
wrong place. Now, I know a lot of coaches were

442
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,680
listening say, oh, you've got to move your body in

443
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,599
a certain way, You've got to put force into the

444
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:20,400
ground and all those things. I get all of that,

445
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,759
and I'm not saying that doesn't have an influence, but

446
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,400
come back to it. For most people, the quickest route

447
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,480
to start to get some enjoyment out of this game

448
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:33,160
is to take care of those three factors and impact

449
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,720
were the club's pointing where you hitting on the club

450
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:38,599
and your interaction with the ground. You know, you just

451
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,680
said about about the low point. The other thing that

452
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:47,440
we've got a capacity to is imagine things. So you know,

453
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,359
if I was on the range with you and you said,

454
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,799
I'm struggling with my low point, the low points behind

455
00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:54,079
the ball, what we could we could maybe place a

456
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,559
team front of the ball, or a coin or something

457
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,759
like that. And so Fred, can you collect the ball

458
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,799
and the tea? Now, obviously if you collect the ball

459
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:04,680
and the tea, that's going to move the low point

460
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,240
a little bit further forward. Now you can imagine that

461
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:10,440
when you're on the golf course, you could you could

462
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,319
see an imaginary coin or a tea or whatever. So

463
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:18,960
utilizing the power of imagination as well alongside intention and attention.

464
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,200
You know, these are wonderful things that we have the

465
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,319
capacity to do. But because we're so much inclined to

466
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:29,240
just focus on information that other people have given us,

467
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,480
we dule the imagination. We don't use our imagination the body.

468
00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:37,799
You know, think about all the physiological responses that we've

469
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:40,920
all experienced when we've been dreaming at night, which is

470
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,440
a wonderful use of imagination. And you wake up in

471
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,839
a cold sweat because you've imagine that something terrible is

472
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,680
about to happen and the body is physiologically responding to that.

473
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,720
That's the power of imagination. But you know, could we

474
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:57,759
use our imagination in a way on the golf course

475
00:26:57,799 --> 00:27:01,160
that actually helps us create more clarity with the intention?

476
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: You said, the golf ball doesn't know if you're in

477
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,119
a good mood or a bad mood. No, you you

478
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,359
know that maybe you're playing partners know that I have

479
00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:20,319
found that for me, it's my you know, we both

480
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,279
talked to Jane's story many times and her or her

481
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,240
desire to get us all to meditate, and it's not

482
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,599
something that I I'm most comfortable meditation. My meditation is

483
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,720
on the golf course. Is walking a golf course. And

484
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:40,559
I'll go out maybe even once a week where I'm

485
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:42,920
not calling my friends and I'm not seeing if i

486
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,119
can play with anybody. I'll just meet a couple of

487
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,839
people on the on the you know, at the first

488
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:53,440
tea box. But I can use my walk on a

489
00:27:53,440 --> 00:28:00,440
golf course as my meditation. And you know, when if

490
00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:02,680
I have the ability to go out when things are

491
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,720
not going well or i'm not happy about something. I

492
00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:10,319
find that I can get into a better mood by

493
00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:15,160
playing golf, which is kind of counter into it because

494
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,920
of the frustration that golf presents to us. But it

495
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,279
doesn't matter. The frustration is going to be there. It's

496
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,680
just being able to walk and spend those hours enjoying

497
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,039
my time, enjoying being outside.

498
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting you bring up meditation. I mean,

499
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,200
I've always struggled with I know all the research. I've

500
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,400
known a Buddhist teacher for many years. You know, it

501
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,559
comes and contributes to my mind. Fact of course, I

502
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,079
firmly believe it is a very beneficial thing to do.

503
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,519
But for me sitting in you know, to cliche it,

504
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,240
sitting cross legged on a cushion doesn't really work for me.

505
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,839
What does work for me when I try and do

506
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,559
it every day is you've just said, is to go

507
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,079
outside and place my attention on the feeling of my

508
00:29:04,119 --> 00:29:07,519
feet on the ground as I'm walking along, and that

509
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,039
becomes my mantra that I just I just tune into

510
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:14,000
the feeling of my feet. Of course, my mind goes

511
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:16,920
somewhere else, but I can bring it back. But I

512
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,119
think that's one of the most beneficial things that a

513
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,480
golfer could do, especially in the winter time. You can

514
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:24,920
work on your golf away from the golf course by

515
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,319
doing walking meditation, you know, because we also ignore the

516
00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:31,759
fact that when we're playing, and I know a lot

517
00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:33,920
in the States is on cards, but if you walk

518
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,160
in the golf course, you know, ninety percent of golf

519
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,519
isn't golf, you.

520
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,599
Speaker 1: Know, more than ninety more than ninety.

521
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably ninety nine percent is the actual time of

522
00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:47,200
activity within the game of golf is a fraction of

523
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,079
the four and a half five hours that you take.

524
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:54,680
So I think the ability to notice your thoughts and

525
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,559
notice you getting off time and you're back in the

526
00:29:57,599 --> 00:30:01,279
past or projecting into the future just simp Bringing your

527
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:03,680
attention to the feeling of your feet as you're walking

528
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,440
in between shots, I think is a great discipline, and

529
00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:09,400
I also think what it does help as well. I

530
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,440
think it you know, rhythm, we've all experienced when we're

531
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,799
playing well. We tend to feel a certain rhythm in

532
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:18,480
our game, a certain rhythm in our movements. I think

533
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:22,200
those rhythms can often be dictated how we're moving between shorts,

534
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,000
and I think when you do walk in meditation, you

535
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:31,000
tend to fall into a more personally effective rhythm of

536
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:34,359
movement that then can transfer into your golf swings. But

537
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,680
what we were saying before Fred about going to the

538
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:39,880
range and placing your attention on the club head, that

539
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:44,400
is meditation for me, because you know, ultimately, what is meditation,

540
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:48,880
it's deciding to pay attention to something on purpose, non judgmentally.

541
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,039
You know, you sit and notice your breath, or you

542
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:56,160
notice a candle or a mantra or whatever it is.

543
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,039
That's the same principle what just said with the club

544
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,279
So I think, you know, all these things kind of

545
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:05,720
tie together in many ways that produce a set of

546
00:31:05,799 --> 00:31:08,839
areas of exploration that I think can be fascinating. Yes,

547
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,160
you'll probably play better golf, but there's more benefits in

548
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,359
the rest of your life. I mean, my god. You

549
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:18,240
know we were saying before we started that we're living

550
00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:21,680
in an incredibly chaotic world. We're living in a very

551
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:25,279
very unstable world, and actually, if you go too deep

552
00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:28,640
into it, a pretty frightening place that there's so many

553
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,000
things potentially could happen or might happen, that golf should

554
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,079
be a sanctuary. The time on the golf course should

555
00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:38,680
be a time away from all that crap and nonsense

556
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,480
that were being fed all the time, and all the misinformation,

557
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:44,680
all that kind of stuff and the overlord of information.

558
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,200
Golf should be a sanctuary for that. But if you're

559
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,839
taking a busy mind onto the golf course and just

560
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,960
feeding it more and more information and more and more thoughts,

561
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,119
it's not a sanctuary. It's a hell. So you're not

562
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,839
getting away from the nonsense in the world. You're bringing

563
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:01,119
it with you to the golf course.

564
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: With so many of the people that I've had on

565
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,599
the program talking about getting yourself in the right attitude

566
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,839
and the right mindset, we get to flow state. And

567
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:22,319
anytime that conversation comes up about flow state, which is

568
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:26,200
I think we're going. No one's talking about their mechanics.

569
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,720
That's never the topic when flow state. When someone's talking

570
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:34,279
about the round they had that just everything worked that day.

571
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,880
We have to remember that we have made all those

572
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,559
shots before. You know, just because you've done it twice

573
00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:45,400
on one round, it's not a time to start changing

574
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,880
what you do. Just get into your mind and tap

575
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,599
into the place where you've been and stop trying to

576
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,400
change things all because this is how golf works. It's

577
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,160
not going to be the same every time, and you're

578
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:00,640
not going to improve with every round.

579
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: But I also think that ties in as well. Fred,

580
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,440
It's the same thing in terms of the mental game

581
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,759
as well. You know, WHI Whilst the flow state is

582
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:13,039
great and nice and wonderful, I think very often people

583
00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:15,400
can fall into the trap of trying to get into

584
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,319
the flow state, whereby there trying to control the thoughts,

585
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480
They're trying to control their experience. They're trying to control

586
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:25,799
their emotions so much that it becomes a full time

587
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,960
job trying to do all of that. Now my understanding,

588
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,519
you know, probably twenty years ago, when I first started

589
00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:34,279
with all this, I would I would give people a

590
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:38,160
lot of techniques to try and control the thinking. I'm

591
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,000
completely the opposite of that now because I do understand,

592
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:43,680
you know, I have no idea what I'm going to

593
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,160
think next. I mean, this thing inside between my years

594
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,480
comes up with the most random nonsense most of the time.

595
00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:52,200
But what I would say is now I've got a

596
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,000
little bit better with not so much trying to change

597
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:59,559
my thoughts, but the relationship to those thoughts. And I

598
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:03,359
think to understand when you go and play golf. You know,

599
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,079
from day to day, we're different, we have different triggers,

600
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:09,679
we've interacted with people differently. To go out on the

601
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,719
golf course and feel that you have to be in

602
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:17,519
a perfect state, it's probably the biggest block to that state. Whereby,

603
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:22,519
if you can go out and you can realize everybody

604
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:27,519
listening to this has had this experience whereby they've felt great,

605
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,239
they've seen the shot, they've done everything perfectly before the shot,

606
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,480
they're convinced it's going to be a good shot, and

607
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,239
they hit its sideways. They've also conversely had the experience

608
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,239
whereby they're pretty uncomfortable, they might feel a little bit nervous,

609
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,320
they're not even certain of what they're trying to do

610
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,639
with the shot, but they've still managed to pull off

611
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:48,920
a good shot. So what I'm getting at, it's a

612
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,760
bit of a paradox, really is that don't think that

613
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:55,119
everything has to be perfect for you to take a good

614
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:59,679
golf shot. It's amazing how efficient the body is following

615
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:03,280
through an intention. If that is what you then bring

616
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,679
to the shot eventually, So you know, don't get hung

617
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,239
up on trying to be perfect mentally anymore that you

618
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,280
should get up hung up on trying to be perfect.

619
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:19,599
Speaker 1: Technically, there is no perfect in golf or life, right,

620
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,400
There is no perfect. So often we'll talk about We'll

621
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:32,159
have fitness people on and we'll talk about aging and

622
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:35,039
playing golf and how your body reacts and what you

623
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:37,360
need to do to keep your body in golf shape

624
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,079
the best you can. But what we don't talk about yet,

625
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:44,039
and I really want to throw it to you, is

626
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,079
aging and the impact on your mindset. I mean, I

627
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:53,440
was playing yesterday with two gentlemen that were from out

628
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,760
of town, and we had a fine time. Didn't talk

629
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,119
much because they were heavy their own game and they're,

630
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:03,360
you know, from a different part of the country. But

631
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,440
they were in town to play golf and they wanted

632
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,440
to know another golf course, and so I gave them

633
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,159
a suggestion. I said, oh, but you know, there's this

634
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,199
other course. I could not come up with the name

635
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,599
of it, and I play there at least once a month,

636
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,480
and I was like just completely drawing a blank. And

637
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:24,480
I'm attributing to that to oh, okay, I'm getting close

638
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:28,119
to seventy years old. My next birthday, I'm seventy years old.

639
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,519
Names are not going to be flowing through my head

640
00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:35,679
as regularly as they used to be. But how does

641
00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:42,400
the aging process impact your mindset on golf or does it?

642
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,199
Speaker 2: I think one of the things I don't believe I've

643
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,559
ever had Ellen Langer on your show. Well, you must

644
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:54,880
get her on Ellen Langer, but I think she wrote

645
00:36:54,920 --> 00:37:02,360
written numerous books on in a Mindful Life, and she's

646
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,480
talked so much about how we can get drawn into

647
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:11,280
the power of story. That you know, if you can't

648
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,320
remember something and you say, oh, I know the name

649
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,320
of that golf course, why can't I remember it? And

650
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,400
the story kicks in I can't remember it because I'm seventy,

651
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,320
then that can almost become a self fulfilling prophecy. There

652
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,199
have been a lot of occasion spread when you were

653
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,719
twenty thirty, forty fifty, and sixty when you couldn't remember stuff,

654
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,599
but the story doesn't necessarily kick in. Then that that's

655
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:36,559
due to the aging process. Now, I'm not saying there's

656
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:40,199
not declined for us all, which clearly there is, but

657
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,679
I think we've got to be very careful of not

658
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:48,000
creating that self fulfilling prophecy of a story. But I

659
00:37:48,039 --> 00:37:52,679
think that's why golf back to our sanctuary idea. I

660
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,559
think that's why golf doesn't promote itself enough to the

661
00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:01,880
older generation of how important it is, not just from

662
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,320
a physical perspective, but from a cognitive perspective. That if

663
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,360
you if you look at golf, if you go out

664
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,559
on the golf course and see that golf is between

665
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,760
sixty five and ninety five separate puzzles to solve, that

666
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,360
in itself is a wonderful way of going out on

667
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,199
the golf course, staying present to each shot and enjoying

668
00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:29,199
the opportunity. And you know, puzzles and quizzes are popular

669
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,079
the world over, but nobody would sit there with a

670
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:36,599
crossword and if they couldn't get seven across, get really

671
00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:39,440
annoyed with themselves and call themselves an idiot and throw

672
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,880
the paper down and throw the pen away and storm

673
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,159
off somewhere else. They would just go and try and

674
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,239
solve the next puzzle and see if they could get

675
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,039
a little bit closer to it. So I think when

676
00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:52,000
you start to look at the frame of reference that golf,

677
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:54,519
you go out there and it's a wonderful puzzle to solve,

678
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,039
that is a great creature of creator of curiosity. And

679
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:03,800
I think then really understanding how important other people are.

680
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,719
And I know it's a cliche to say it, but

681
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,760
you know, can you genuinely enjoy and engage in some

682
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:15,239
conversations that you perhaps wouldn't maybe ordinarily go towards? Golf

683
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,679
provides that environment, doesn't it. And I think to see

684
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:21,880
that preciousness of opportunity when you go and play golf

685
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:27,039
of a genuinely interesting conversation with somebody. Not not always

686
00:39:27,079 --> 00:39:30,079
everybody's up for that, but it's a medium where it

687
00:39:30,119 --> 00:39:33,480
can come out. You know. I've had some amazing conversations

688
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:36,840
walking with clients on a golf course that have gone

689
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,639
far away from their golf and trying to hate it straight.

690
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,159
And that is the wonderful nature of the game if

691
00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:47,159
we actually are open to that, to that potential adventure.

692
00:39:48,559 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: So frequently my wife like, would you guys talk about

693
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,239
on the golf course today? It's like our last shot

694
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,480
the Actually, no, you don't talk about anything. I'm sure

695
00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:02,480
we do. That's not what the focus is. We're talking

696
00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:04,440
about our last shot in our next shot.

697
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:10,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and sometimes not sometimes my experiences, the

698
00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:13,079
more we actually are prepared to be I know, one

699
00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:17,480
of the things that Fred said that he years ago

700
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:20,239
said this idea about could you go out and play

701
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,000
golf and make a commitment to being a great playing partner.

702
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,840
And it sounds whimsy, cold, tree hugging and all the

703
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,159
rest of.

704
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, Well we're both from California, but yeah,

705
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,559
that sounds awesome.

706
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,039
Speaker 2: You know, make a commitment to be a great playing partner. Now,

707
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,039
the win win with that is that you go out

708
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:42,639
and if you're intending to be a great playing partner,

709
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,480
you're probably going to be a little bit less selfish

710
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:50,760
and self absorbed, a bit more self less. And if

711
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,760
we're self less, perhaps we're not so much in our

712
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,400
own head trying to figure everything out to the nth

713
00:40:56,519 --> 00:40:58,599
degree as we're going around, we're a little bit more

714
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:02,519
engaged with other people. My experience is when people have

715
00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:06,039
experimented with that as a commitment, it's not always the case,

716
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,039
but they generally play better because they're not so weighted

717
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:12,039
down by their own self reference.

718
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes total sense.

719
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,559
Speaker 2: I love that. And the worst thing that happens with that, Fred,

720
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:20,400
you actually enjoy the round more because you do genuinely

721
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:21,719
engage with other people.

722
00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:28,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, great concept, great idea. You were going to on

723
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,400
any New Books podcast taking up enough of your time?

724
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,559
Speaker 2: Gary and myself, Gary Nichol and myself we wrote the

725
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:38,039
Lost Art series and we made a promise to ourselves

726
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:40,719
that when we've done the third one, that that was

727
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,239
going to be it wasn't going to be a turn

728
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,840
out to be Rocky four, five and six or whatever.

729
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,280
So we kind of feel like we kind of felt

730
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,239
like we said all we need to say for a while.

731
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,559
So I've not got anything planned in the in the

732
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,079
in the immediate future, but I am really interested in

733
00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:00,119
these ideas that we've talked about today about skills and

734
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:03,280
developing skills and then being able to access those skills.

735
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,159
And I think overall, if I've got a mission in

736
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,840
go for it is to try and simplify things todayn

737
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,559
to some some workable concepts. Not I look back for

738
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,159
in my career. I look back in the early days,

739
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,119
and it was it was well meaning, but the but

740
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:21,960
the sole purpose of my coaching in the early days

741
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,840
was to sound clever and and to and to and

742
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,400
to throw big words at people and show the people

743
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,719
how much knowledge I've got about the game. And I

744
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,840
think almost every coach probably has to go through that

745
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,159
at some point where there's there's a little bit of

746
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:37,119
ego kicking in. I'm not saying I don't have an

747
00:42:37,199 --> 00:42:39,639
ego now, because everybody has an ego to some degree,

748
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:45,559
but I genuinely feel that as I hopefully I've got

749
00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:48,679
a little bit better at this, I don't help everybody, obviously,

750
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:50,679
but as I've got a little bit more competent this,

751
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,519
at this, I am willing to say less and and

752
00:42:55,519 --> 00:42:58,360
and being willing to say less I found is actually

753
00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:59,440
very very productive.

754
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: And then you started a podcast, and.

755
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 2: Then I started a podcast, and people probably listening to that,

756
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,039
I say, what rubbish's talking. He's waffled away for an

757
00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:11,199
hour there, but hopefully they get the drift of what

758
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,039
I'm actually going after. In terms of the actual interaction

759
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:19,199
with clients. It's trying can I simplify down to such

760
00:43:19,199 --> 00:43:22,920
a point where the attention settles in one or two

761
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,360
key areas that do start to produce results. And I

762
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,159
firmly believe when you understand these things, you don't have

763
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,559
to wait for months and working on extensive swing changes

764
00:43:34,599 --> 00:43:38,599
and complicated moves. You can start to tap into that

765
00:43:38,639 --> 00:43:42,480
innate genius that we all have and enjoy the experience

766
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:43,119
of go for More.

767
00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:46,679
Speaker 1: Well, I truly appreciate the fact that you're doing a

768
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,119
show that really has focused on the mental part of

769
00:43:49,159 --> 00:43:51,840
the game. That was one of the initial intentions of

770
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,159
this show. That's why we came up with a name

771
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:57,679
Golf Smarter, is to focus on the mental aspects of

772
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:04,079
it and strategic But my I, you know, you're nine

773
00:44:04,159 --> 00:44:07,000
hundred and seventy eight episodes. I can't talk about the

774
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:09,360
same thing over and over, so I try to cover

775
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,880
a wide variety of topics in golf. But I really

776
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,920
am happy that you are focused on getting people like

777
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,000
Fred Shoemaker and Jim Waldron and Jane's story, John Sherman,

778
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,599
Scott Fassett and the Martin Chuck is he Justice, all

779
00:44:24,639 --> 00:44:27,480
these people that we've had on but you really focus

780
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:31,599
on And that's part of what I love about podcasting

781
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,320
is that if there is a part that is two

782
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:42,119
tent too danse for you to absorb, pause, go back,

783
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,639
listen to it again, listen to it multiple times, and

784
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:51,079
you've got a podcast that commands that attention. Congratulations and

785
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:51,480
thank you.

786
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,079
Speaker 2: Thanks for It's always great, always great to chat with you.

787
00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:58,559
You every time I see you, Ali, It goes by

788
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:00,679
but you never look at any old would advert for

789
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,280
the Californian lifestyle. So I said, that was great to

790
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:13,400
chat with him. H