Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
Speaker 1: back into the Tova Noel transcript of her meeting with Congress. Question,
Speaker 1: would you fill out any kind of log or report
Speaker 1: for a round or account? Answer, so a count happens
Speaker 1: throughout the whole institution, like at those specific times that
Speaker 1: I give you. The irregular rounds every 30 minutes in
Speaker 1: the SHU is specific to the SHU, not a regular
Speaker 1: housing unit. In the shoe, the logs are filled out
Speaker 1: for rounds. The count, it's also filled out throughout the
Speaker 1: whole institution for a count. Mr. Foy, if I could
Speaker 1: have just one word. Ms. Firebrand, sure, we can go
Speaker 1: off the record. Back on the record, Ms. Noel, just
Speaker 1: to clarify, the rounds in the shoe, it's twice an hour,
Speaker 1: with no more than 40 minutes in between. So, it's
Speaker 1: irregular rounds. Question okay. Were you required to fill out
Speaker 1: a report? for every one of those irregular rounds? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: what did that report look like? Answer, a log sheet. Question,
Speaker 1: how long would that take you to complete? Answer, for
Speaker 1: the log sheet, I would fill it out before, like
Speaker 1: filling it out or in before or sometimes after, depending
Speaker 1: on the day, in hopes to make the rounds, not
Speaker 1: at the accurate time that it's being filled out. Question,
Speaker 1: was that how it was supposed to be done? Answer, no.
Speaker 1: But that's how I seen them do it. So I
Speaker 1: did the same thing. Question. Did someone show you how
Speaker 1: to do it that way? Answer. Not specifically showing me.
Speaker 1: But that's how I observed them doing it. Question. Okay.
Speaker 1: And what were you writing down on the round log? Answer.
Speaker 1: The time. Question. So you would have. She gets cut
Speaker 1: off by Noel. Like it'd be the tiers. So I
Speaker 1: think it'll say like L tier, J tier. And then
Speaker 1: it'll have the times. Question. Okay. Answer. and your signature,
Speaker 1: your initials. Question, what was the signature supposed to represent? Answer,
Speaker 1: who did it? Question, okay. And were you certifying that
Speaker 1: the inmates were in their cells? Answer, no. You're certifying
Speaker 1: that you made the round. Question, okay. Answer, I think
Speaker 1: the count would be that you're certifying that they're in
Speaker 1: the cell. Question, okay. Would you ever report whether on
Speaker 1: a round or afford institutional count any unusual activity? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: anything out of the ordinary that would get reported? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: you would only report for the number of inmates, for
Speaker 1: the count, and for the round that they were in
Speaker 1: fact checked on? Answer, yes. Question, okay. What were the
Speaker 1: cell blocks in the shoe? What were the lock systems like? Answer,
Speaker 1: regular lock, like you put the key in, you turn it,
Speaker 1: and it's locked. Question, so a physical key? Answer, yeah. Question,
Speaker 1: would you ever, whether you were conducting a count or around,
Speaker 1: would you ever physically unlock the door? Answer, so the
Speaker 1: person the keys are, the person that's on the grill,
Speaker 1: doesn't have the keys for the cell door. And the
Speaker 1: person that's going down range doesn't have the key for
Speaker 1: the cell door. Question, okay. Answer, so you can't really,
Speaker 1: not that you can't, but you wouldn't have it. Question,
Speaker 1: so would the access to lock or unlock the door,
Speaker 1: the person that was doing the range, wouldn't have the
Speaker 1: key with them? Answer, right. Question, okay. Answer, it'd be
Speaker 1: the person on the grill. Question, was that standard? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: was that like protocol that was required? Answer, yes. Mr.
Speaker 1: Emmer jumps in. Question, and I apologize if I'm going
Speaker 1: to make you repeat yourself, but you'd mentioned earlier that
Speaker 1: account required to individuals to conduct. Is that right? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: was that the same for around? Answer, for around, no. Question,
Speaker 1: and you had mentioned that Mr. Thomas had told you
Speaker 1: earlier in the night in question that he didn't want
Speaker 1: to do a count. Did he ever make any comments
Speaker 1: about not wanting to do rounds as well? Answer, so
Speaker 1: let me explain. So with a count, the person is
Speaker 1: on the grill. And then one person goes down and counts.
Speaker 1: Then you switch places. And the other person goes down
Speaker 1: and counts. With a round, you still have two people
Speaker 1: because somebody has to open the gate. But the one
Speaker 1: person can make the round. The one person doesn't have
Speaker 1: to go behind. So you still need two people physically
Speaker 1: going to the tier, but the round can just be
Speaker 1: one person. The count, you have to cross count. Question,
Speaker 1: what's the gate that you just mentioned? Noelle, every cell
Speaker 1: block has a gate, the grill. So like to get
Speaker 1: in the cell block, you're opening the grill door. Question, okay. Mr. Emmer,
Speaker 1: just a general question here. You had mentioned Mr. Thomas
Speaker 1: not wanting to conduct the rounds. Was that the first
Speaker 1: time that it happened during your time working at the SHU,
Speaker 1: where an individual said, they don't want to conduct rounds?
Speaker 1: Miss Noel, no, because I worked the 4 to midnight,
Speaker 1: also where my other colleague was tired from working a triple.
Speaker 1: He was on the 22nd hour of his shift. God,
Speaker 1: that's such bullshit. So if a pilot works extra hours
Speaker 1: and crashes the plane, it's not his fault? No, it's
Speaker 1: his fault. If you're too tired to work, don't work. Mr. Emmer,
Speaker 1: thank you. Mr. Grant, who was your colleague? Ms. Noel, Bonhami. Ms. Noel,
Speaker 1: his name? Bonhami. Question, so moving forward to August 9th, 2019,
Speaker 1: you checked into your shift at 4 p.m. that day.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Answer, correct. Question, and what time did
Speaker 1: you leave the next day? Answer, after 8. Question, a.m. Answer, a.m., correct. Question,
Speaker 1: how many rounds did you conduct in the shoe on
Speaker 1: your shift on that night? Answer, on the 4 to midnight. Question, yeah. Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't have an exact number, but I did a
Speaker 1: few rounds. I can tell you, I can't tell you
Speaker 1: an exact number. Question, and what about counts? Answer, for
Speaker 1: the counts, I counted at 10 improperly. Question, improperly because
Speaker 1: Officer Thomas did not want to do it with you? Answer, Bonhomie. Question, Bonhomie,
Speaker 1: thank you. How many rounds would you say that Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein's cell got the night of August 9th, 2019? Answer,
Speaker 1: I can't give you an exact number, but if you,
Speaker 1: like we went to go feed while you're feeding, you're
Speaker 1: going to each tier. You're conversing with the inmate. You
Speaker 1: give out toilet paper. You're going to each cell. You're
Speaker 1: conversing with the inmate. So there was a few. I
Speaker 1: can't give you an exact number. And that was on
Speaker 1: the four to midnight. And Epstein was not there the
Speaker 1: entire shift. Epstein would have come up later on that
Speaker 1: evening because he was in attorney conference, just to be clear.
Speaker 1: So like at 4, when I had come on, he's
Speaker 1: not there. Question, do you know what time he came
Speaker 1: into his cell? Answer, I want to say after 8. Question,
Speaker 1: what did that process look like? The moving of the
Speaker 1: shoe inmate from one cell, like with his attorneys, to
Speaker 1: a shoe cell? Answer, so when Epstein got to the shoe,
Speaker 1: he came in the shoe with, his name was Bullock,
Speaker 1: and he was placed in a shower. He didn't go
Speaker 1: directly to his cell, but placed in the shower to
Speaker 1: use the phone, not to shower. Question, why was there
Speaker 1: a phone in the shower? Answer, because there is only
Speaker 1: one jack that works near the shower. So he was
Speaker 1: placed there where it was plugged in because the jack
Speaker 1: was closest to the shower cell. Question, could inmates make
Speaker 1: calls from the shower? Answer, that's where they put the
Speaker 1: shoe to make the call because the jack is there.
Speaker 1: Question right, could they make calls anytime they wanted to,
Speaker 1: to shower? Answer, no. Question, was it regulated? Answer, so
Speaker 1: in the shoe? It's specific to, like, a certain time
Speaker 1: that you get to use the phone. And I think
Speaker 1: you're on the disciplinary, you don't get to use it. That's, like, different.
Speaker 1: But that day, Bullock allowed Mr. Epstein to use the phone. Question,
Speaker 1: and Bullock was the correctional officer? Answer, no. Bullock was
Speaker 1: a counselor. Question, okay. Answer, a unit counselor. Question, okay. Mr. Grant, question,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you would converse with inmates when giving
Speaker 1: them their food or when giving them toiletries such as
Speaker 1: toilet paper. Can you recall what your interactions with Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein were when you would interact with him? Did he
Speaker 1: seem in good spirits? Did he, you, have conversations? Answer.
Speaker 1: He was never there for that. Question. He was never
Speaker 1: there for that. Okay. Is that unusual that inmates is
Speaker 1: never there when you're providing food or providing toiletries? Answer.
Speaker 1: For Mr. Epstein, because he's downstairs with his attorney the
Speaker 1: entire time that he's allotted to be with his attorney.
Speaker 1: So 90% of the time he's not on the SHU unit. Question, understood,
Speaker 1: thank you. Answer, you're welcome. Question, were you aware that Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein attempted to commit suicide in his cell on July 23rd, 2019? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: how did you become aware of this incident? Answer, an
Speaker 1: inmate told me. Question, do you know which inmate? Answer, Tartaglione. Question,
Speaker 1: is that Mr. Nicholas Tartaglione? Answer, yeah. So he's the
Speaker 1: source of all this information about what happened in that
Speaker 1: jail cell. Go ahead and believe it if you want.
Speaker 1: We're not going to be buying it here. Question, how
Speaker 1: soon after the incident happened were you made aware of it? Answer,
Speaker 1: the next day. Question, was that your next shift? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: so the inmate told you on your next shift? Answer, correct. Mr. Grant,
Speaker 1: did anyone else at the MCC inform you of Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein's suicide attempt? The first one, Ms. Noel? Not to
Speaker 1: my recollection, no. Question, were you involved in any way
Speaker 1: of handling of the incident? Answer, of the attempted suicide? Question, yes. Answer,
Speaker 1: I wasn't on shift that day. Question, okay. Was there
Speaker 1: anything that was happening the next day while you were
Speaker 1: on shift? Answer, no. Mr. Foy, I need to have
Speaker 1: a word real quick with Ms. Noel. Mr. Foy, the
Speaker 1: thing I'm trying to clarify, right? You're saying that Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Epstein attempted to commit suicide on July 23rd, 2019. After
Speaker 1: the fact, of course, there were reports to suggest that
Speaker 1: maybe he didn't, right? That it was some sort of
Speaker 1: way to manipulate his cell situation and different things weather, right?
Speaker 1: Tartaglione did something to him. And then, of course, Jeffrey
Speaker 1: doesn't remember what happened. So when we're saying he tried
Speaker 1: to commit suicide on July 23rd, that's not her saying
Speaker 1: that because it's up in the air, whether that was
Speaker 1: actually a suicide attempt versus a manipulation on behalf of
Speaker 1: Epstein in the case. Or if it was just an
Speaker 1: attack by Tartaglione to send a message. It's amazing that
Speaker 1: so many people discount that. But it's okay. In about
Speaker 1: five years, when I'm proven right again, we'll be here. Question. So,
Speaker 1: I just didn't want it to be that she is
Speaker 1: somehow confirming that he tried to kill himself on July 23rd. Question.
Speaker 1: And we have some questions that will come up that
Speaker 1: will help clarify that. Question, as a result of the incident,
Speaker 1: were you directed to take specific approaches to Mr. Epstein? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: did you have to make any sort of special report? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: fill out any log? Answer, no. Question, make note of
Speaker 1: any of his behavior? Answer, no. Question, did you have
Speaker 1: to speak with any MCC psychologist? Answer, no. Question, would
Speaker 1: MCC psychologists come and visit Mr. Epstein while you were
Speaker 1: on shift? Answer, no. Question, at no point while you
Speaker 1: were working in the shoe, did you see an MCC
Speaker 1: psychologist visit Mr. Epstein? Answer, not on my shift. Question,
Speaker 1: did you know whether they did? Answer, I don't know.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
Speaker 1: And in the next episode, dealing with the topic we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off with the Tova
Speaker 1: Noel interview with Congress. Question, we mentioned Mr. Tartaglione. Who
Speaker 1: did you understand him to be at the time? Answer,
Speaker 1: Tartaglione was Mr. Epstein's prior cellmate. Question, when you say prior,
Speaker 1: what time frame are you referring to? Answer, because after
Speaker 1: the incident when Mr. Epstein got a different cellmate. Question
Speaker 1: in the shoe, correct? Answer, correct. Ms. Fairbent, I'd like
Speaker 1: to enter Majority Exhibit 1. This is a New York
Speaker 1: Times article titled, quote, Purported Suicide Note is Released, end quote.
Speaker 1: The New York Times recently reported that a federal judge
Speaker 1: in White Plains, New York, recently released Jeffrey Epstein's purported
Speaker 1: suicide note. We'll pass that out and have you take
Speaker 1: a look at it just for a minute. So, on
Speaker 1: the front, you'll see the New York Times article that
Speaker 1: was published on May 6, 2026, and then the photo
Speaker 1: of the purported suicide note. I can read how the
Speaker 1: New York Times article quoted it. Question. The note reads, quote,
Speaker 1: they investigated me for months, found nothing. Two exclamation marks.
Speaker 1: So 16-year-old charges resulted. Is it a treat to be
Speaker 1: able to choose one's time to say goodbye? What you
Speaker 1: want me to do? Bust out crying? No fun? Not
Speaker 1: worth it? End quote. Have you ever seen this suicide
Speaker 1: note before? How is that a suicide note? He says,
Speaker 1: what do you want me to do? Bust out crying?
Speaker 1: No fun? Not worth it? I think that could be
Speaker 1: taken several different ways. Answer, no, never. Question, do you
Speaker 1: know whether this suicide note belongs to Jeffrey Epstein? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, the New York Times article says
Speaker 1: that Mr. Tartaglione said he discovered the suicide note in
Speaker 1: July of 2019, after Mr. Epstein's first suicide attempt. Did Mr.
Speaker 1: Tartaglione ever speak to you? or any other correctional officer
Speaker 1: about the note? Answer. Speak to me about the note? No.
Speaker 1: To anyone else? I'm not aware. Question. Were you ever
Speaker 1: made aware at the time that a suicide note was discovered? Answer. No.
Speaker 1: This is my first time seeing it. Question. Okay. Did
Speaker 1: you ever witness or hear anything from other correctional officers
Speaker 1: about Jeffrey Epstein writing a suicide note? Answer. No. Question.
Speaker 1: Are you aware that when officers responded to Mr. Epstein,
Speaker 1: At 1.27 a.m. on July 23rd, 2019, he was found
Speaker 1: to be unresponsive on the floor and with an orange
Speaker 1: fabric noose around his neck. Answer, in July, I was
Speaker 1: not working, no. Question, okay, are you aware that Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein had told officers he thought he had been attacked
Speaker 1: by his cellmate, Mr. Tartaglione, in his cell? Answer, I
Speaker 1: learned that after. Question, how soon after? Answer, when it
Speaker 1: came out in the paper. Question, okay, Mr. Tartaglione He
Speaker 1: denies the accusations and claims that he was the one
Speaker 1: who called for help. Were you aware of that? Answer,
Speaker 1: only in the paper I saw after. Question, okay. Do
Speaker 1: you have any reason to believe that Mr. Epstein did
Speaker 1: not attempt suicide on July 23rd, 2019? Answer, I don't know. Question,
Speaker 1: do you have any further details of what transpired in
Speaker 1: the early morning hours of July 23rd, 2019 in Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein and Mr. Tartaglione's cell? Answer, no, I was not working. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: thank you. Answer, you're welcome. Question, were you ever paid
Speaker 1: not to check on Mr. Epstein's cell the night before
Speaker 1: his death? Answer, never. Question, did anyone ever force you
Speaker 1: not to check Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer, never. Question, did
Speaker 1: anyone ever threaten you not to check Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer, never. Question,
Speaker 1: did anyone ever ask you not to check Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer, never. Question,
Speaker 1: do you know whether Mr. Thomas was paid not to
Speaker 1: check Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer, I don't know. Question, do
Speaker 1: you know whether Mr. Thomas was forced not to check Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein's cell? Answer, I don't know. Question, do you know
Speaker 1: whether Mr. Thomas was threatened to not check Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, did anyone ever ask Mr. Thomas
Speaker 1: to not check Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer, I don't know. Mr. Emmer,
Speaker 1: thank you. We're coming to the end of the majority's
Speaker 1: first hour. We're going to discuss this more specifically during
Speaker 1: the upcoming hours, but there's been payments that have been
Speaker 1: identified or reported on that have been suspicious. Specifically, there
Speaker 1: was a cash deposit of $ 5, 000 from an unknown sender
Speaker 1: on July 30th, 2019, just 10 days before Jeffrey Epstein's death.
Speaker 1: What was that payment for? Ms. Noel, so you said
Speaker 1: unknown sender? Like I deposited my money into my bank account.
Speaker 1: And that's from my personal savings plan. And no one
Speaker 1: has ever approached me or given me money in reference
Speaker 1: to Mr. Epstein at all. Mr. Emmer, for the record,
Speaker 1: you never, is it your testimony, that you never received
Speaker 1: money from Jeffrey Epstein or anyone affiliated with Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 1: as it relates to his incarceration at MCC? Ms. Noelle, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: I think that'll be the end of our first hour.
Speaker 1: We can go off the record. Now they're back on. Question,
Speaker 1: good morning, Ms. Noelle. Answer, good morning. Question, my name
Speaker 1: is Giancarlo Pellegrini. Oh, nice Irish name, huh? I'll be
Speaker 1: doing most of the questioning for the minority today. First,
Speaker 1: thank you for your time, and thank you for your
Speaker 1: service to our country. We really appreciate it. Answer, you're welcome. Question,
Speaker 1: as you know, today's conversation will focus on your work
Speaker 1: at the MCC and circumstances surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's death. I
Speaker 1: wanted to start for a moment with a topic that
Speaker 1: just came up, at the end of the previous hour,
Speaker 1: those cash payments. One of the documents that was released
Speaker 1: in the DOJ files says that in November of 2019,
Speaker 1: JPMorgan Chase provided a suspicious activity report to the FBI
Speaker 1: regarding 12 cash deposits that you made between April 2018
Speaker 1: and July 2019. I know you were just asked a
Speaker 1: moment ago, was there any connection between those deposits and
Speaker 1: your official duties at MCC? Answer, no. Question, was there
Speaker 1: any connection, direct or indirect, between those deposits and Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell in any way? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: there was a deposit specifically of $ 5, 000 on July 30th, 2019.
Speaker 1: So that's about 11 days before Mr. Epstein died. I
Speaker 1: know that's included in what I just asked. But was
Speaker 1: there any connection of any kind specifically between the deposit
Speaker 1: and your official duties at MCC? Answer, no. Question, was
Speaker 1: there any connection of any kind between that deposit and
Speaker 1: the death of Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, no. Question, and any connection,
Speaker 1: direct or indirect, between that deposit and Jeffrey Epstein or
Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell in any way? Answer, no. Question, okay, thank you. Answer,
Speaker 1: you're welcome. Question, we're going to ask some questions. Some
Speaker 1: of them are similar to what you were already asked.
Speaker 1: We have to try to cross those out so you
Speaker 1: don't have to get asked the same thing twice. Answer, okay. Question,
Speaker 1: we might not always be successful, but we'll do our best. Answer, okay. Question,
Speaker 1: couple of questions going to the layout in the shoe.
Speaker 1: You described there are, I think, six different tiers, is
Speaker 1: that right? Answer, correct. Question, and how many cells in
Speaker 1: each tier? Answer, that I don't remember. Question, is there
Speaker 1: a locked door for each tier? You talked about the grill. Answer,
Speaker 1: the grill. Question, what's the grill? Answer, it's the so.
Speaker 1: It's because it's a grill. Because it's not an actual door.
Speaker 1: And that's what allows you to enter the tier. And
Speaker 1: that's locked. Question, so there's a physical key to get
Speaker 1: into that? Answer, yes. Question, okay. So to get into
Speaker 1: any of the tiers, one of the CO needs a key. Answer, key, correct. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: We do have an additional member who has since joined us.
Speaker 1: If that member could just identify himself. Ro Khanna from
Speaker 1: California 17. Question, how many in the shoe specifically, how
Speaker 1: many inmates would there typically be in each cell? Answer,
Speaker 1: it could be one or two. Question, is there any
Speaker 1: rhyme or reason? as to whether it's one or two? Answer,
Speaker 1: so the shoe doesn't have to be full. If it's full,
Speaker 1: then it will be two because the maximum it can
Speaker 1: hold in one cell is two, but it could be
Speaker 1: just one. Question, as far as you can recall, would
Speaker 1: it be one in every cell? And then once that's done,
Speaker 1: you start adding cellmates? Answer, no. So like, for example,
Speaker 1: let's say if on L tier, there is like everybody
Speaker 1: paired up and somebody got in trouble from a different
Speaker 1: unit and they're coming and they're single. they have to
Speaker 1: place them in a cell. So they may be alone
Speaker 1: until somebody else comes in that has to go to
Speaker 1: the SHU, or if somebody else got in trouble, then
Speaker 1: they could pair them with them. Or if for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: that inmate, for whatever their stipulation is, needs to be
Speaker 1: with someone, they can move someone from someplace else and
Speaker 1: put them with them. So it can be single or double,
Speaker 1: depending on what specific inmate is going on. Question, thank you,
Speaker 1: that's helpful. The SHU, I think we read, had Two
Speaker 1: different entrances, a primary entrance and a secondary entrance. Is
Speaker 1: that right? Answer, correct. Question, what was the difference between
Speaker 1: those entrances in terms of who would use them? Answer,
Speaker 1: so for the outer door, that has to be properly
Speaker 1: by control. The inner door, someone on the inside has
Speaker 1: to let you in. Question, got it. But is it
Speaker 1: right that there were, so I understand, that the way
Speaker 1: to get into the shoe where you have to go
Speaker 1: through two different doors? Answer, correct. Question, Was there a
Speaker 1: totally different second way to get into the shoe? A
Speaker 1: different entrance of any kind? Was it just the one
Speaker 1: you're describing? Answer, the one I'm describing. That's the only
Speaker 1: one that I know, the double doors. Question, okay. Can
Speaker 1: you describe your recollection of how a typical cell in
Speaker 1: the shoe would be laid out? Answer, it's a bunk
Speaker 1: bed and the bathroom area, if you want to call it.
Speaker 1: That's pretty much it. A bunk bed and I think
Speaker 1: like a sink, a toilet and a little mirror, I guess. Question,
Speaker 1: and you talked about this a little bit. Where did
Speaker 1: the CO sit that were on duty in the shoe? Answer,
Speaker 1: when you come into the shoe, in the common area
Speaker 1: right in the middle. Question, is there like a table
Speaker 1: and chairs kind of thing? Answer, it's a desk like
Speaker 1: an L. Question, from that desk, were you able to
Speaker 1: see all cell doors, any cell doors? What could you
Speaker 1: see in terms of the cells from the desk? Answer,
Speaker 1: from the desk, if you're sitting, because the desk is
Speaker 1: an L, so if you're on this side, no. If
Speaker 1: you're on the front side, then you can see just
Speaker 1: the beginning of the L-tier on the right side. So
Speaker 1: you can see the door. Question. And from that point
Speaker 1: at the desk, would you, if you remember, would you
Speaker 1: have been able to see Mr. Epstein's cell door? Answer.
Speaker 1: From the front of the desk, yes. Question. Would you
Speaker 1: have been able to see into his cell? Answer. No. Question.
Speaker 1: Would you have been able to see from, I guess,
Speaker 1: that spot on the desk, anybody entering or exiting the shoe? Answer. Definitely. Question. Question.
Speaker 1: and there was a separate unit that got mentioned called
Speaker 1: 10 South, correct? Question, what is 10 South? Answer, so
Speaker 1: on the last tier, you can go up the stairs
Speaker 1: and go to 10 South. That's a more secure area,
Speaker 1: and it's like a wing up there, but it's laid
Speaker 1: out differently. It's supposed to be more secure than the SHU,
Speaker 1: and SHU is secure. Question, what's the typical difference, or
Speaker 1: was the typical difference between inmates in 10 South versus
Speaker 1: in the SHU? How do you land in 10 South? Answer.
Speaker 1: How do you land in 10 South? I don't know.
Speaker 1: But I do know that in 10 South, you're not
Speaker 1: coming out, whereas they get an hour in shoe to
Speaker 1: come out. You're not coming out. You can't even go
Speaker 1: to your attorney. The attorney goes up to 10 South
Speaker 1: to you, so it's very secure. But as far as
Speaker 1: I know, how you get to 10 South, I'm not aware. Question.
Speaker 1: Is it correct that the only way to get into
Speaker 1: 10 South is to go through the shoe? Answer. Shoe. Correct.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
Speaker 1: And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off with the Tova
Speaker 1: Noel interview with Congress. Question, you touched on it previously,
Speaker 1: but here all in one place for your two shifts
Speaker 1: in the shoe. On August 9th and 10th, who were
Speaker 1: your co-workers for each shift? Answer. So on August 9th,
Speaker 1: it was myself, Bonhami, and David. On August 10th, it
Speaker 1: was myself and Thomas. Question. And I think you had
Speaker 1: said that was your first time working with Thomas. Is
Speaker 1: that right? Answer. Correct. Question. How about for Bonhami and David? Answer.
Speaker 1: I work with Davis. Yes. So for I worked with
Speaker 1: Davis before and I worked across from Bonhami before. Question.
Speaker 1: And for all three of those colleagues, what was the
Speaker 1: chain of command? If there was one between you, did
Speaker 1: you report to any of those individuals? Answer, no. We're
Speaker 1: all correctional officers. The only one that would have had
Speaker 1: a different title would have been Michael Thomas as the
Speaker 1: materials handler. Question, were all of them or any of
Speaker 1: them senior to you? Answer, senior as they've been there
Speaker 1: longer than me, yes. Question, is that a case for
Speaker 1: all three of them? Answer, all of them correct. Question,
Speaker 1: When that was the case, would it typically be that,
Speaker 1: I know you would not report to them, but would
Speaker 1: they sort of practically or informally be in charge, so
Speaker 1: to speak? Answer, correct. Question. And so, who are the
Speaker 1: lieutenants or supervisors for each of those shifts? Answer, so
Speaker 1: on the 4th to midnight, Kanata. Call to mandate me,
Speaker 1: so it was Kanata. And then on the midnight to 8,
Speaker 1: in the morning, it was Lieutenant Anderson. Question. Was this
Speaker 1: your first ever overnight shift at the SHU? Answer. Correct. Question.
Speaker 1: Do you recall who was working in 10 South for
Speaker 1: those two shifts? Answer. For the 4 to midnight, don't recall.
Speaker 1: Midnight to 8, it was Adams. Question. Would it usually
Speaker 1: be just one guard or one CO in 10 South? Answer. Yes.
Speaker 1: It's supposed to be two, but it's one. Question. Is
Speaker 1: that because you guys were undermanned, short-staffed? Answer. Correct. Question.
Speaker 1: Like to get a little bit more background on counts
Speaker 1: and rounds, I'll just start with counts, which I know
Speaker 1: you did discuss a little bit. Is it right that
Speaker 1: the basic purpose of a count is to count the
Speaker 1: number of folks in the unit? Answer, correct. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: And the process for a count, I think as you
Speaker 1: described it, involves two guards. Is that right? Answer, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: one stands at the grill of the tier and the
Speaker 1: other goes downrange? Answer, correct. Question, okay. And is counting inmates,
Speaker 1: would that typically be as they see them through the
Speaker 1: cell window? Answer, correct. Question, okay. Would that ever involve
Speaker 1: opening a cell door or never? Answer, never. Question, would
Speaker 1: the count typically involve visually confirming that an inmate is
Speaker 1: alive and breathing? Answer, correct. Question, and in terms of paperwork,
Speaker 1: writing the count down, what would be that process? Answer,
Speaker 1: on the count slip, it will be the number that
Speaker 1: you counted. And remember it's two people counting. So it's
Speaker 1: like two people saying yes, we both agree to this count.
Speaker 1: So it will be two signatures on the bottom of
Speaker 1: the count slip. And it will have the unit, the
Speaker 1: name of the unit, on there. Question. So would one
Speaker 1: guard usually go downrange, count, and then you switch and
Speaker 1: the other guard does the same thing? Answer, correct. Question.
Speaker 1: And would you normally know what number you're supposed to get?
Speaker 1: Or is it just a matter of counting what you see? Question. Question.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ever happened in your case
Speaker 1: or if anybody ever mentioned, but if there was a
Speaker 1: mismatch in the numbers, you're not seeing the number that
Speaker 1: you thought you would see. What would typically happen at
Speaker 1: that point? Answer, if there was a mismatch, recount to
Speaker 1: make sure that you counted accurately. If there's still a mismatch,
Speaker 1: then control, call control. Question, who or what is control
Speaker 1: just for us? Answer, okay, so control is downstairs on
Speaker 1: the first floor. And these are the people that you
Speaker 1: report to account to because you have to call the
Speaker 1: count in. Control also, like when you come into the building,
Speaker 1: that's who you show your ID to. So it's like
Speaker 1: a control center. The officer is downstairs in control. Question,
Speaker 1: in terms of the count process that you just described,
Speaker 1: when you would either participate in it or see it happen,
Speaker 1: did it look different from what you just talked about?
Speaker 1: Or would it typically match your description of the process? Answer,
Speaker 1: it would typically match the description of the process. Question,
Speaker 1: and you did describe this also, but another thing that
Speaker 1: would happen during each shift would be rounds. Is that right? Answer, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: and what's the purpose of a round? Answer, the purpose
Speaker 1: of a round is to make sure that the inmates
Speaker 1: are okay. Question, and there are round logs I think
Speaker 1: you said. Is that right? Answer, yes, correct. Question, and
Speaker 1: this is a one guard job or always two guards? Answer,
Speaker 1: so it will be two because you need one person
Speaker 1: to open the grill and one person to go down.
Speaker 1: But you're not verifying like how you would do with
Speaker 1: the count. Question, got it. And is the round log,
Speaker 1: I heard you talk about there need to be one,
Speaker 1: I think two signatures, is that right? Answer, so no,
Speaker 1: it doesn't the two signatures for the count slip. The
Speaker 1: round log, it's one. So if I made a round
Speaker 1: at 10 and I logged it and I put my
Speaker 1: signature and I go down to the bottom tier, you
Speaker 1: can make the other round or I can make all
Speaker 1: the rounds and then the next time you can make it.
Speaker 1: So rounds are not specific to a person. Question, and
Speaker 1: what is, you sign and you submit the round log.
Speaker 1: Is it trying to say, is it obviously saying, yes,
Speaker 1: I did this round? Is it saying, and nothing bad happened,
Speaker 1: or everybody was fine? What's being signaled by the round slip? Answer,
Speaker 1: I would think that the round slip signaled like, yes,
Speaker 1: I made the round at this time. Question, does it
Speaker 1: involve the same amount of making sure every inmate is breathing?
Speaker 1: Or is it something less than that? Answer, yeah, every
Speaker 1: inmate's breathing. Question, so is it essentially the same as count?
Speaker 1: Except you're not going through Answer, correct. Question, you're not counting.
Speaker 1: Got it. In terms of other required activities during a shift,
Speaker 1: what would those be? I think you mentioned feeding inmates dinner. Answer, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: and that would be specific to the 4 p.m. to
Speaker 1: midnight shift, right? Answer, correct. Question, okay. Anything else, such
Speaker 1: as toiletries or anything else? Answer, yeah, toilet paper, if
Speaker 1: you're giving out toilet paper. Question, is the toilet paper
Speaker 1: or toiletries, is that a thing that happens at a
Speaker 1: specific time for everybody? Or is it just as people
Speaker 1: ask for it? Answer, I'm not sure. If they ask
Speaker 1: for it, we give it to them. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's supposed to happen at a different time. Question,
Speaker 1: but in your experience, it was kind of whenever people say, hey,
Speaker 1: I need some toilet paper. Answer, correct. Question, okay. Anything
Speaker 1: else that would typically happen on every shift? Answer, orderly
Speaker 1: is cleaning up. I mentioned that earlier. Orderlies will be
Speaker 1: out cleaning up, or sometimes there's a little library. An
Speaker 1: orderly can be a library reading, while other than that,
Speaker 1: for the most part, the shoe is on lockdown. Question,
Speaker 1: thank you. My colleague has a few questions about the timeline,
Speaker 1: so I'll turn it over. Answer, okay. Question, Ms. Noel,
Speaker 1: I just have a few questions related to Epstein's time
Speaker 1: at MCC before August 9th and August 10th. Answer, okay. Question,
Speaker 1: so it's our understanding from the OIG report that Epstein
Speaker 1: was arrested and brought to the MCC on July 6th,
Speaker 1: and that he was initially placed in general population. And then,
Speaker 1: on July 7th, he was moved over to the SHU.
Speaker 1: Are you aware of that? Answer, no. Question, okay. So,
Speaker 1: it was your understanding that he was brought directly to
Speaker 1: the SHU? Answer, to the SHU. Question, okay. And we
Speaker 1: established earlier, I think, that he was brought to the
Speaker 1: SHU because he was high profile in nature. Answer, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: did you hear anyone harassing Epstein in general population? Answer, no. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: Did you hear anything about other inmates trying to get
Speaker 1: him to put money on their commissary accounts? Answer, no. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: Did you ever hear Epstein paying any other inmates to
Speaker 1: protect him, either in general pop or in the shoe? Answer, no. Question,
Speaker 1: and when's the first time that you met or spoke
Speaker 1: to Epstein? Answer, the first time that I spoke to
Speaker 1: Epstein would have been August 9th. Question, okay. On July 8th,
Speaker 1: Epstein was screened by a psychologist and was placed on
Speaker 1: psychological observation. Were you aware of that? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: and is this something that typically happens when an inmate
Speaker 1: is brought into the SHU? Are they usually given a
Speaker 1: psychological screening? Answer, they're supposed to. Question, okay. And is
Speaker 1: that just when they're brought into the SHU or when
Speaker 1: they're brought into general population or another unit? Answer, that
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Question, okay. You're just aware of the
Speaker 1: shoe process. And we talked about the events on July 23rd,
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to get into that. But I
Speaker 1: would like to ask you a little bit about the
Speaker 1: suicide watch process. So it's our understanding that he was
Speaker 1: placed on suicide watch that same day. But then he
Speaker 1: was taken off suicide watch the next morning, on July 24th.
Speaker 1: Is that your understanding as well? Answer, yes. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: And what is suicide watch? Could you describe the process
Speaker 1: of that a little bit? Answer, yes. So when you're
Speaker 1: on suicide watch, you're not upstairs in the shoe. Question, okay. Answer,
Speaker 1: you're downstairs in a holding cell with no garments, no shoestring.
Speaker 1: It's like a mock, like a Velcro smock. And you're
Speaker 1: being watched 24 hours by another inmate. Question, okay, by
Speaker 1: another inmate. Answer, correct. Question, what about MCC staff? Is
Speaker 1: there staffers that work in the holding cell area as well? Answer,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I just know the actual inmate has
Speaker 1: to be. Eyes has to be on the person all
Speaker 1: the time by another inmate. As far as another staff,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Question, okay. Is the other inmate a
Speaker 1: cellmate or are they just there to watch? Answer, no.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't have been a cellmate. They're not even from
Speaker 1: the shoe. It would have been an inmate because some
Speaker 1: inmates are allowed to work. So that will be the
Speaker 1: inmate's job. Like they're working. Question, okay. And do you
Speaker 1: have an understanding of why someone's placed on suicide watch? Obviously,
Speaker 1: we know why Mr. Epstein was. But other reasons that
Speaker 1: individuals would be placed on suicide watch? Answer. If they're
Speaker 1: saying that they, some people just say it, some people attempt.
Speaker 1: They will be placed on suicide watch. I don't know
Speaker 1: of any other reason why they would be placed. Question. Okay.
Speaker 1: And how about why somebody would be taken off suicide watch? Answer. That,
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of that process. Question. Okay. And was
Speaker 1: it normal? It sounds like Mr. Epstein was on suicide
Speaker 1: watch for about 24 hours. Is that a typical time
Speaker 1: from your understanding? Answer, I'm not aware of the process.
Speaker 1: That would be the psychologist. Question, okay. And do you
Speaker 1: know why Mr. Epstein was taken off suicide watch? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, okay. So then it's our understanding
Speaker 1: that he was moved to something called psychological observation and
Speaker 1: he was on under psychological observation from July 24th to
Speaker 1: around July 30th. Is that correct to your recollection? Answer, yes. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: And then could you just describe what psychological observation is? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, okay. Do you know if it
Speaker 1: looks similar to suicide watch? Answer, I have no idea. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: Are you aware of whether inmates have a cellmate when
Speaker 1: they're under psychological observation? Answer, I don't know. Question, does
Speaker 1: psychological observation also take place in the hold room or
Speaker 1: are they in the shoe? Answer, psychological observation, I don't know. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're not aware of whether he was in the
Speaker 1: same holding room? Answer, right, I don't know. Question, but
Speaker 1: he was brought back to the shoe after that psychological
Speaker 1: observation ended, to your understanding. Answer, correct. Question on July 30th. Answer, correct. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: and he was placed in a different cell when he
Speaker 1: was brought back. Answer, correct, because he wasn't with Tartaglione anymore. Question, yes.
Speaker 1: So that was when he was moved to L tier? Answer, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: and to your understanding, before that, I think he was
Speaker 1: in M tier. Is that correct? Answer, I don't remember
Speaker 1: the letters, but he was on the bottom. Where he
Speaker 1: was with Tartaglione before, they were on the bottom of
Speaker 1: the middle tier. All right, folks, we're going to wrap
Speaker 1: up right here. And in the next episode dealing with
Speaker 1: the topic, we're going to pick up where we left off.
Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
Speaker 1: found In the description box. What's up everyone and welcome
Speaker 1: to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
Speaker 1: we're picking up where we left off with the Tova
Speaker 1: Noel interview with Congress. Question, okay, thank you. And on
Speaker 1: July 30th, a staff psychologist from the psychological department sent
Speaker 1: an email to over 70 staff, BOP staff stating that Epstein, quote,
Speaker 1: needs to be housed with an appropriate cellmate. Did you
Speaker 1: receive that email? Answer, I never saw that email. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: were you aware of it existing? Answer, after the fact. Question, okay,
Speaker 1: and how did you find out about the email? Answer,
Speaker 1: when I was questioned. Question, okay, so no one mentioned
Speaker 1: it to you before? Answer, no. Question, okay, do you
Speaker 1: recall ever being aware of the fact that Epstein needed
Speaker 1: to have a cellmate? Answer, no. Question, okay, and the
Speaker 1: email says an appropriate cellmate. Do you have any understanding
Speaker 1: of what an appropriate cellmate would have been in this instance?
Speaker 1: Answer no, because the warden has to make that call.
Speaker 1: Question okay. And so it's our understanding that on July 30th,
Speaker 1: when he came back to the shoe, Epstein was assigned
Speaker 1: an inmate named Efren Reyes as a cellmate, and that
Speaker 1: Reyes remained a cellmate until August 9th. Is that your understanding?
Speaker 1: Answer correct. Question okay. And on August 8th, Epstein met
Speaker 1: with his attorneys and changed his last will and testament.
Speaker 1: Did you have any knowledge that he had done that
Speaker 1: at the time? Answer, after the fact, at the time, no. Question,
Speaker 1: you learned after he died? Answer, correct. Question, okay. You
Speaker 1: didn't hear anyone else mention it or anything days leading
Speaker 1: up to it? Answer, no. Question, okay. And then the
Speaker 1: OIG also reported that Epstein's daily routine was to meet
Speaker 1: with his attorneys in the conference room. You mentioned that
Speaker 1: as well. Are you aware of that? Was that happening
Speaker 1: on August 8th? Was that his schedule? Answer, yeah. Question, okay. Mr. Foy,
Speaker 1: you said August 8th? Redacted, yes, when he signed out
Speaker 1: his last will and testament. Noel, yes. Question, and you
Speaker 1: were working that day? Answer, August 8th, yes. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: That's all from me. Question, We're going to go if
Speaker 1: we can. I think one of the members present has
Speaker 1: a few questions he'd like to ask. So we're going
Speaker 1: to go down there. Mr. Submeranium, thank you. I apologize.
Speaker 1: I have to leave a little early, but thank you
Speaker 1: for being here. I appreciate you coming voluntarily and answering
Speaker 1: these questions. You said something earlier about you not received
Speaker 1: any sort of compensation for anything related to Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 1: and no one. Noelle, correct. Question, does that apply to
Speaker 1: anyone that you know? Any friends, relatives? Noelle, anything in
Speaker 1: regards to Mr. Epstein? I've never received any money. Mr. Submaranian,
Speaker 1: and what were those bank account payments for? For instance,
Speaker 1: the $ 5, 000 one. Noelle, my savings, my personal savings. Submaranian,
Speaker 1: so do you. You were shifting money from one account
Speaker 1: to another. Noelle, no, I do savings challenges for myself. Submaranian, oh,
Speaker 1: I see. So you were going, you were sending money
Speaker 1: to a savings account. Noelle, no, not sending. Like I save,
Speaker 1: I do savings challenge books. Submaranium, okay. Noelle, and when
Speaker 1: I get to my goal, I deposit my money. Submaranium, oh,
Speaker 1: so you were saving it personally and then you deposited
Speaker 1: the money all at once. Was it a cash deposit? Noelle, yes. Submaranium, okay,
Speaker 1: thank you. And then do you have any reason to
Speaker 1: believe that Jeffrey Epstein did not commit suicide? Noelle, no. Submaranium,
Speaker 1: or died in any other way? Noelle, no. Question, because
Speaker 1: you had mentioned that you didn't actually see him hanging. Noelle, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: in a previous interview, but you strongly believe that there's
Speaker 1: no other? You've ruled out any other sort of death? Noelle, right,
Speaker 1: because there was no one else in there. Submaranium, great.
Speaker 1: And then you did an interview with the DOJ in 2021.
Speaker 1: You said that a lieutenant placed Jeffrey Epstein in the
Speaker 1: shower to make a 20-minute personal unmonitored phone call to
Speaker 1: his girlfriend in Belarus. Is that correct? Noelle, I don't
Speaker 1: know who he made the phone call to, but I
Speaker 1: know he was placed in there to make a phone call.
Speaker 1: Not by a lieutenant, by Bullock, a counselor, unit counselor. Question,
Speaker 1: unit counselor, yeah, you mentioned that earlier. You also told
Speaker 1: investigators that Epstein was the only person to be allowed
Speaker 1: to have a long cord for his sleep apnea machine. Noelle, correct. Question,
Speaker 1: could you tell me more about that? Why was he
Speaker 1: able to get a sleep apnea machine? Answer, so that
Speaker 1: would have had to been authorized by, like, psychologists or
Speaker 1: the warden. But he was the only one in the
Speaker 1: shoe that has a CPAP machine, and the way how
Speaker 1: the tears are, like, they're up and down, so he
Speaker 1: was on the upper. So the CPAP is in the cell,
Speaker 1: and there's a long cord that has to extend out
Speaker 1: of the cell to reach down, because he's up to
Speaker 1: meet an outlet. Submeranian, okay. Would he have been able
Speaker 1: to yank that cord out? Noelle, absolutely not. Question, this
Speaker 1: would have been the warden that would have cleared this? Noelle,
Speaker 1: or the psychologist? I don't know who makes the decision
Speaker 1: to allow him to have a CPAP machine, or who
Speaker 1: gave it to him? Question, and then this is a
Speaker 1: long time ago, so it may be hard to remember,
Speaker 1: but when you were walking through, and when you saw
Speaker 1: his cell, did you notice any extra bed linens that
Speaker 1: may have been in the cell? Noelle, no, after. Submaranian, afterwards,
Speaker 1: you noticed that? Do you know why he was given
Speaker 1: extra bed linens, Noel? So I'm not aware of him
Speaker 1: having extra bed linen. He had linen on his bed
Speaker 1: and Reyes had linen on his bed. Question, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: There was some reporting that he had extra bed linen. Noel,
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of that. Question, is it common for
Speaker 1: someone in the shoe to have extra bed linens? Noel, no. Question,
Speaker 1: was there anything else as far as Jeffrey Epstein's treatment
Speaker 1: that you would consider like special treatment that was unique
Speaker 1: from other people who were there? Noelle, I don't know
Speaker 1: who allowed him to have his medication. That's not supposed
Speaker 1: to be. Submaranium, by medication, which medication are you talking about? Answer,
Speaker 1: I don't know which, but he had a bunch of
Speaker 1: medication in his cell. In the shoe, a nurse comes
Speaker 1: and administers medication to other inmates. I don't know who
Speaker 1: allowed him to have his own personal medication. Question, and
Speaker 1: then one of the files in the FBI's library of
Speaker 1: Epstein files includes an account that alleges Epstein met with
Speaker 1: a guard with the first name James only days before
Speaker 1: Epstein was found dead. Do you know who James is? Noel, James? Question, yeah.
Speaker 1: There was a file that said that someone named James
Speaker 1: met with Epstein a few days before. Are you aware
Speaker 1: of this meeting at all? Noel, no. Question, okay. Is
Speaker 1: there anyone named James that you work with? Noel, not
Speaker 1: that I know of. Question, okay. And then there was
Speaker 1: also a report that detailed an interview between the FBI
Speaker 1: and an unnamed inmate at the jail. In the report,
Speaker 1: the inmate shares that he overheard you after Epstein was
Speaker 1: found dead, saying that, I quote, if Epstein's dead, we're
Speaker 1: going to cover it up. And he's going to have
Speaker 1: an alibi. My officers, do you know anything about this?
Speaker 1: And what was the officer you? Well, no. Question, and
Speaker 1: did you say that at any point? Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1: And then so inmates at the Metropolitan Correctional Center evidence
Speaker 1: found to have reportedly said, quote, Miss Noel killed Jeffrey Epstein, unquote,
Speaker 1: after they found out about Epstein died. Do you know
Speaker 1: of any inmates saying that? Noel, no. Question. And do
Speaker 1: you know why they would say that? Noel, no. Question.
Speaker 1: And then I guess I would just also ask generally
Speaker 1: if in hindsight, looking back at everything that happened, do
Speaker 1: you have any regrets about anything that happened as far
Speaker 1: as not checking on him? knowing who he was now
Speaker 1: and the damage he caused and the damage his death caused? Foy,
Speaker 1: hold on one second. They go off the record, then
Speaker 1: they come back on. Submeranium, would you like me to
Speaker 1: repeat the question? Noelle, no. Question, yeah. Looking back at
Speaker 1: everything that's happened, do you have any regrets or maybe
Speaker 1: even remorse about what transpired as far as your actions
Speaker 1: or the actions of the MCC? Noelle, so I would
Speaker 1: have liked to have conducted the counts and rounds. understanding
Speaker 1: that if they were done, that suicide could still have
Speaker 1: taken place. My only regret is that I worked for MCC,
Speaker 1: a poorly ran institution. Question, follow up one thing here.
Speaker 1: You said that even if you had done the counts
Speaker 1: and rounds, the suicide could have still occurred. Noelle, correct. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: That's all my questions. Redacted, all right. I have a
Speaker 1: few more questions. We're going to try to walk through
Speaker 1: the timeline of August 9th and 10th, just kind of
Speaker 1: one step at a time. Answer, okay. Question, One thing
Speaker 1: I think we wanted to try to clarify before we
Speaker 1: even kick that off is inmate movements in and out
Speaker 1: of the shoe. I think that's caused some confusion in
Speaker 1: terms of what exact numbers, on which exact count slip,
Speaker 1: and what was the right number. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: introduce an exhibit which I'll mark as Minority Exhibit A. Redacted,
Speaker 1: I'll give you a moment to look it over. Question,
Speaker 1: I know I gave you the longest one-page document in
Speaker 1: the history of documents. I appreciate you looking it over.
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot there. The documents called count
Speaker 1: discrepancies on August 9th, 2019. It was part of the
Speaker 1: DOJ release. We don't know exactly what it is. We
Speaker 1: think probably it's written by the OIG when they were
Speaker 1: first trying to figure things out, but we don't know
Speaker 1: that for a fact. But it does says at the
Speaker 1: top that it's based on the daily activity report and
Speaker 1: lieutenant log from August 9th and 10th. First, do you
Speaker 1: have any understanding of what a daily activity report is?
Speaker 1: Answer no. Question. Okay, how about a lieutenant's log? Answer, no. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: This document has inmate movements for the SHU on the
Speaker 1: 9th and 10th, and it's got specific times on it.
Speaker 1: We think that those times are probably linked to the
Speaker 1: sentry system. Are you familiar with that sentry system? Answer, yes. Question,
Speaker 1: what is that? Answer, the sentry system is the system
Speaker 1: that has the accurate number of inmates in the institution.
Speaker 1: That's all I know. Question, did you ever know or
Speaker 1: do you remember whether the sentry system would be used
Speaker 1: to log inmate movements? Answer, I don't know what they
Speaker 1: use to log it. Question, okay. Would you have had
Speaker 1: any knowledge of whether inmate movements are logged at the
Speaker 1: exact time a movement happens or maybe a few moments
Speaker 1: after something happens? Answer, yeah. I don't know when they
Speaker 1: log it. Question, okay. So I'm going to walk through
Speaker 1: a few of these individual inmates. I know it was
Speaker 1: a long time ago. I'll just ask the best of
Speaker 1: your recollection. It looks as if the day started with
Speaker 1: 77 inmates in the shoe. I guess it's also called ZA.
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with that? Answer, yeah. Question, okay. So
Speaker 1: ZA also means the shoe, is that correct? Answer, correct. Question, great.
Speaker 1: And at 8.38 in the morning, inmate Reyes was pre-removed
Speaker 1: out of the shoe and did not come back. And
Speaker 1: our understanding is that Mr. Epstein's cellmate. Is that also
Speaker 1: your understanding? Answer, correct. Question, okay. And that would take
Speaker 1: the shoe number down to 76. This happened at 8.30
Speaker 1: in the morning, or 8.38. You did not start work
Speaker 1: until 4pm, I know that. But do you recall whether
Speaker 1: anybody mentioned to you that Reyes had been removed from
Speaker 1: the shoe? Answer, no, no one. Question, no one mentioned
Speaker 1: it to you? Answer, no. Question, and so did that
Speaker 1: leave you with the impression that Mr. Epstein still had
Speaker 1: a cellmate when you arrived? Answer, when I first got there, yeah. Question,
Speaker 1: was there at some point in the day when you
Speaker 1: noticed that it did not look like he actually had
Speaker 1: a cellmate? Answer, after lock-in. Question, got it. And do
Speaker 1: you recall specifically when or how you would have noticed that? Answer,
Speaker 1: even if an inmate is moved to somewhere, usually everybody
Speaker 1: will be back by the time of lock-in. And at
Speaker 1: the time of lock-in, there was not an inmate back
Speaker 1: other than Epstein. Question, what time is lock-in? Answer, I
Speaker 1: don't remember the exact time, to be honest. Question, ballpark?
Speaker 1: I won't hold you to it. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be exact. Answer, well, in the shoe, they're always locked in.
Speaker 1: In the shoe, it's different. But I think in regular,
Speaker 1: general population, 9 p.m. maybe. But remember, in the shoe,
Speaker 1: they're not out unless your order leaves. But by the
Speaker 1: time the count time, if you're somewhere, you would be back.
Speaker 1: So that's why Epstein has to come up before nine,
Speaker 1: because it's an institutional count, if that makes sense. Question,
Speaker 1: it does. Would that be the 10 p.m. count? Answer, correct. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: So sometime around 10 p.m. marker, you recall noticing, hey,
Speaker 1: everybody's locked in at this point, but there's nobody actually
Speaker 1: in Mr. Epstein's cell other than Epstein. Answer, correct. Question, okay.
Speaker 1: Do you recall whether you discussed the fact? Any other
Speaker 1: guards at the time? Answer, no, I didn't. Question, did
Speaker 1: you have any understanding at the time of whether Mr.
Speaker 1: Epstein was supposed to have a cell? I understand you
Speaker 1: knew that Reyes was assigned to the cell, but whether
Speaker 1: there was some kind of policy that Mr. Epstein needed
Speaker 1: to always have a cellmate? Answer, I was not aware. Question,
Speaker 1: anybody ever mention that that you can recall? Answer, no.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
Speaker 1: And in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box.