WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Geesy Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.239 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.359 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:44.079 Good evening. At the height of the Great Depression, Los 8 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:47.600 Angeles oil mogul George Allen Hancock and his crew of 9 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:54.000 Smithsonian scientists came upon a gruesome scene two bodies mummified 10 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:56.799 by the searing heat on the shore of a remote 11 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:01.479 Galapacho's island. For the past four years, Hancock and other 12 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:06.000 American elites had traveled the South Seas to collect specimens 13 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:11.480 for scientific research. On one trip to the Glapicos, Hancock 14 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:15.760 was surprised to discover an equally exotic group of humans, 15 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:21.959 European exiles who had fled political and economic unrest, hoping 16 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.920 to create a utopian paradise. One was so devoted to 17 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.760 a life of isolation that he'd had his teeth extracted 18 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:36.000 and replaced with a set of steel dentures. As Hancock 19 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:40.840 and his fellow American explorers would witness paradise had turned 20 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:46.120 into chaos. The three sets of exiles, a Berlin doctor 21 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:49.680 and his lover, a traumatized World War One veteran and 22 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:54.799 his young family, and an Australian baroness with two adoring paramours, 23 00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:01.079 were riven by conflict. Petty slights led to angry confrontations. 24 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:05.480 The barrenness, wielding a writing crop and pearl handled revolver, 25 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:11.199 staged physical fights between the two lovers and unabashedly seduced 26 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:17.479 American tourists. The conclusion was deadly, with two exiles missing 27 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:22.759 and two others dead. The survivors purled accusations of murder. 28 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:29.599 Using never before published archives, Abbot Kaylor weaves a chilling, 29 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:34.840 stranger than fiction tale worthy of Agatha Christie, set against 30 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.680 the backdrop of the Great Depression and the march to 31 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:41.879 World War II, with a mystery as alluring and curious 32 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:47.719 as the Galapicos itself. Eden Undone explores the universal and 33 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:52.800 timeless desire to seek utopia and lays bare the human 34 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:58.919 fallibility that inevitably renders such a quest doomed. The book 35 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:03.000 you were featuring this evening is Eden Undone, a true 36 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:06.759 story of sex Murder and Utopia at the Dawn of 37 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:11.199 World War Two with my special guest, formerly writing as 38 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:17.520 Karen Abbot New York Times bestselling author Abbot Kaylor. Welcome 39 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:19.919 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 40 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:24.039 Abbit Kaylor, thanks so much for having me. Dan, thank 41 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:30.120 you so much. And congratulations on this incredible book. Eden Undone, thank. 42 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:32.240 You so much. I had a lot of fun writing it, 43 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:34.400 and I'm really glad that you enjoyed reading it. 44 00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:38.360 Tell us how you came to be the author of 45 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:39.000 this book. 46 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:42.319 Well, it's a good question. About twelve years ago, so 47 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:46.599 it's been quite some time. I was looking for another story, 48 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.080 just sort of waiting through and looking through old newspaper files, 49 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.800 and I came acrossm this came upon this tabloid passage 50 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:56.840 that was so fantastic and absurd that I had to 51 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.039 read it about three times just to make sure I 52 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:01.919 really read what I had just read. And it was 53 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:03.759 a passage. It was, you know, a headline, and it 54 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:07.919 had said quote was doctor Ritter with his steel teeth 55 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:13.000 Poisoned in Paradise was Baroness Eloise, known as Crazy Panties, 56 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.000 who ruled the island with a gun in love murdered 57 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:18.480 by one of her love slaves after she had driven 58 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:21.360 the other to his death. And why is Frau Ritter 59 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.040 going back to what she once called Hell's Volcano the 60 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:28.120 mystery of the Galapachos Island, which Germany covets to be 61 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:32.040 solved at last. So I don't know any narrative nonfiction 62 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:34.360 writer who wouldn't start doing a deep dive after that. 63 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:38.120 And I did a deep dive, and after confirming that 64 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.920 Crazy Panties more than satisfactorily embodied her nickname, I pivoted 65 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.399 from the project I had been thinking about, and I 66 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.560 was desperate to write this one instead. But the problem 67 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.319 was that my publishers weren't interested. They said, we, you know, 68 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.199 you write American history, and we want American history from 69 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:58.879 you with American characters years past. I went on, you know, 70 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:01.360 I wrote other books, but I never forgot this story, 71 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:03.600 and it sort of remained foremost in my mind and 72 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:06.600 I was obsessed with it. And I finally took the 73 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.439 publisher of Crown, which is my division of Penguin Random House. 74 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:11.120 I took him out for drinks and begged him, and 75 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:13.560 I made the argument that you know, this isn't a 76 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.199 European story. This isn't an American story. This is a 77 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:20.319 human story. Now, who among us hasn't dreamt of abandoning 78 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.560 our lives and fleeing off to some remote island just 79 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:25.800 to start over where nobody knows who we are? You know, 80 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:27.879 who hasn't wanted to flee the madding crowds and the 81 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.240 social media and all the pressures of our daily lives 82 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:35.560 and just find something else that's really simple and seemingly easy. 83 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:38.120 And he got that, and I think as a timeless 84 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:42.199 and universal question and desire. And that's another reason I 85 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:43.600 really wanted to explore this book. 86 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:48.199 You right, that you spent five unforgettable days on this 87 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:53.240 island of Florinia. Tell us just about this incredible journey. 88 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:56.639 Briefly, It was really incredible. It took two full days 89 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.959 to get there from New York City. You know, plans, trains, autobiles, ferries, 90 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:03.800 a lot of walking, and Floriana For people who aren't 91 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:06.240 familiar with the Galapagos, the Glapacos in general, you know, 92 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:09.040 it's not this sort of shimmering golden beach with lust 93 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:13.759 tropical fruits and this like sort of paradise of lush 94 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:18.560 gardens and it's this lava encrusted islands that are sprung 95 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.160 from volcanoes. A lot of the islands are barren and 96 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:25.120 they don't have fresh water sources. It's really really difficult terrain. 97 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:27.879 So I went there, you know, in twenty twenty two, 98 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:31.399 with all the modern conveniences and still found that how 99 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:33.279 do these people live there? There's about one hundred people 100 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:35.800 who live there now. And I couldn't imagine what these 101 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:38.000 characters in the nineteen thirties, you know, had to go 102 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:41.040 through with absolutely no modern conveniences and nothing clear, no 103 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:43.800 pathways cleared. They really were starting from scratch on this 104 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:44.680 difficult island. 105 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:49.040 Now, let's talk about two of the main characters in here, 106 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:56.600 Frederick Ritter, doctor Frederick Ritter and Dora Straus Kirwin. Yeah. 107 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.279 So they are two fascinating people, you know, and they 108 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:03.439 are main character. They were in Germany. So the year 109 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:06.879 is nineteen twenty nine, the Wymar Republic is starting to falter, 110 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.120 Hitler is starting to ascend a power, and Friederich is 111 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:14.439 this is this kind of strange man, eccentric doctor who 112 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.199 has all of these these ideas, some of them quite 113 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.399 progressive and modern about medicine and holistic healing, some of 114 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:24.079 them quite wacky as well. You know, Dorry came to 115 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:28.800 him in his hospital suffering from multiple sclerosis, and while 116 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.040 every other doctor told Dory that her condition was incurable, 117 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:35.680 Frederick tells her that she can cure her condition just 118 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:38.079 through the power of her mind. She can just think 119 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.920 her multiple sclerosis away. And he, you know, announced that 120 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.439 he wanted to lived to be one hundred and fifty 121 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.920 years old. He you know, had ideas that people didn't 122 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:49.480 really need teeth. They could take all their teeth out 123 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.120 and their gums would start substituting for teeth and become 124 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:56.079 harded off his teeth. He you know, wanted to explore 125 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:59.360 all these philosophies, and Dorry was quite frightened with him 126 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:02.079 at first. Wasn't an easy relationship in the start. 127 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:05.160 You say that they were both married at this time 128 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:09.959 when she was at this hydrotherapeutic institute in Berlin. Tell 129 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:14.000 us about her marriage that she was in at that time. 130 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:17.120 So Dorry was sort of you know this, this very 131 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:20.399 sensitive child, grew up very close to animals, had all 132 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.600 of these lofty ideas, was a bit of a dreamer, 133 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.319 and I think, you know, just as women are pressure 134 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.319 to do. She felt like she was getting older, she 135 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.399 had to get married. She married an older family friend. 136 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:33.240 He was a teacher, he was several years her senior, 137 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:35.600 and she actually, you know, wrote a memoir in which 138 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.559 she talked about how much she detested this marriage. She 139 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.440 even talked about how bad he was in bed, and 140 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:43.480 she just took him on as this project. She was 141 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:45.360 going to try to fix him, you know, she wanted 142 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.080 to coax him out of his fusty old habits, she wrote, 143 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:50.679 and try to make him this sort of fun, younger person. 144 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:53.960 And he was resistant to this. So, you know, when 145 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.919 she went to the hospital, it was a little bit 146 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:58.039 of a respite for her. She was going to be 147 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:00.360 there for a while, and she got away from her husband. 148 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:02.840 And here comes this strange doctor with all of his 149 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:06.759 ideas and philosophies. And even though he was kind of 150 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:10.639 frightening and scary and intimidating, she was really intrigued by Frederick. 151 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.679 You also say that she was realized that she was 152 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.639 a different person and she had more affinity for animals 153 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:19.320 than humans. 154 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:22.240 Yeah, you know, I think she had a hard time 155 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:25.120 relating to people. I think what her issue was that 156 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.679 she didn't relate to people on a one on one 157 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:30.799 personal level. She was sort of just had this large 158 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.960 view of humanity and humankind, and it was very abstract 159 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.440 to her in a way. You know, she had volunteered 160 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.399 during the Revolution and tried to help the you know, 161 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.559 the poor classes, and did all this volunteering, but you 162 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:45.639 never hear her talk about any really close personal relationships 163 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.279 with anybody she forged along the way. And I just 164 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.440 had the feeling that, you know, she was a person 165 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:53.639 more interested in ideas than in people. And you know, 166 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.519 of course that might explain her attraction to Frederick a 167 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.720 little bit. Here was this man of man of grand ideas, 168 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:03.240 you this man who read Nietzsche and was obsessed with 169 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:07.360 Nietzsche and the great philosophers, and probably not surprisingly obsessed 170 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:11.080 with Fietzcha because some of his harsh philosophy's transferred to Frederick, 171 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:14.759 especially with regard to women. But Dory was interested in 172 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:18.399 this man's ideas, and I think in a way Frederick 173 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.600 was also an abstraction to her. 174 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.600 He had ideas about raw food and vegetarianism that were 175 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:28.320 well ahead of other people's ideas at that time. 176 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.960 Yeah, that's true. He thought about he thought that eating 177 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:34.759 meat was going to hasten the end of European culture, 178 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:40.200 as he wrote. He wrote about eating raw food. He 179 00:10:40.279 --> 00:10:43.360 thought that people could live on nothing but figs. You know, 180 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:45.480 he had all these ideas about what people should and 181 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.120 should not do with her bodies. Of course, later on, 182 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:51.120 when he's stuck on Floriana with new great food source, 183 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.559 things get a little bit more complicated for him, and 184 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:55.759 in terms of what he's willing to eat. 185 00:10:56.679 --> 00:10:59.879 They once she gets released from this institute, she's still 186 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:04.639 wants to be with Friedrich and enjoyed his company. So 187 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.240 they go on these long walks, and what do they 188 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:10.639 talk about specifically, Well, Frederick. 189 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:14.919 Shares his vision about creating utopia. He had long you know, 190 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.480 Frederick was I should mention that he had served in 191 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.240 World War One. He suffered from post traumatic stress disorder. 192 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:24.600 He had had liver problems from the gases from from 193 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:27.200 you know, being up in combat battle. He was very 194 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.519 I think the war changed him and after that he 195 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:32.679 that's when he really started to get into his more 196 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:37.759 eccentric philosophies. He started fantasizing about leaving civilization behind. He 197 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:42.440 called civilization quote an impersonal monster, and he believed he 198 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.879 had nothing to offer civilization, and civilization had nothing to 199 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:48.679 offer him, and he started thinking about where he would 200 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.000 go to create his own utopia. You know, that's when 201 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:55.039 he and Dorry started talking about the possibilities, and Frederick, 202 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:59.080 being the sort of Nietzschean you know, devotee, wanted to 203 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:03.360 you know, maybe try an island that wasn't idyllic, something 204 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.919 that was a Nietschean challenge or something dark, and that 205 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:08.639 would you know, prove that he was an ubermant. You know, 206 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.279 everything to Frederick was a challenge and proving that he 207 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.159 was the best that there could possibly be. And so 208 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:16.559 they talked about their plans for running away from Germany 209 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.159 and going to this remote island where nobody else lived 210 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:19.679 in the world. 211 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:24.279 You're right that when they were looking at photos of 212 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:28.279 the of islands maybe to choose from, they saw all 213 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:32.840 kinds of photos of sumptuous islands, but the one that 214 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.360 Brewianna didn't look so sumptuous at all. 215 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.320 No, you know, it's it is entirely covered in lava 216 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.000 rock except for the highlands. There is an area you know, 217 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:46.679 up towards you know, it's kind of a volcanic island. 218 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.360 So if you travel upward a bit inland and upwards 219 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.919 a couple hours from the from the bay, you'll find 220 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.200 a more lush area. There's one fresh water spring on 221 00:12:57.279 --> 00:12:59.720 the island, and today they actually still have that one 222 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:01.919 for USh water spring that they used to pipe water 223 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:05.279 all over the island for people. But they figured they 224 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.320 would settle somewhere near that spring. It would be adequate 225 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.039 enough for them to start planning seeds and maybe a 226 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.759 garden would grow. And the one thing about Friedrich, you know, 227 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.279 he did have some crazy philosophical ideas, but he was 228 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:19.039 very handy in terms of building things, and he was 229 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:21.600 able to build sort of an irrigation system that would 230 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:26.200 pipe water into their makeshift home that would you know, 231 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:29.879 provide shower water and a way for them to water 232 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:34.080 their garden. But it was a very very difficult climate 233 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:36.440 and he had to do a lot of work clearing brush, 234 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:39.879 moving things around, and just making space for where they 235 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:40.720 might build their home. 236 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:44.480 Let's go back just a little bit. You write that 237 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:50.679 in nineteen twenty four, American scientist William Biebe visited the 238 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.399 Galapagos and wrote a best selling book called The Galapagos. 239 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.679 So this led to this interest in the islands itself. 240 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:03.879 Yeah, so William Bieb was following the footsteps of Charles Darwin, 241 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:06.919 who of course made his famous journey in eighteen thirty 242 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:10.080 five to the Glapcos Islands, which really informed his theory 243 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.720 of evolution. So when Biebe went about one hundred years later, 244 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.559 he sort of was retracing Darwin's steps and reignited this 245 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:22.080 fascination with the Glapacos Islands. And after Biebe's book was published, 246 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.600 I believe in nineteen twenty six, all sorts of wealthy Americans, 247 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:29.360 whether they had scientific background or not, were something interested 248 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:32.039 in visiting these islands and seeing these rare you know, 249 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:35.000 flora and fauna that were found nowhere else in the world. 250 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.919 And they just started, you know, making these trips there 251 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.720 and bringing these animals back to America. Not a good idea, 252 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:43.919 but it was sort of you know, their trophies that 253 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.879 they would bring back, but ignited this entire you know, 254 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:51.240 big fascination with oceanic exploration and especially with the Glapaco Silence. 255 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.159 You're right then, in July third, nineteen twenty nine, Frederick 256 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:01.480 and Dory left from Amsterdam and they pulled in to 257 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:06.279 the islands July thirty. First tell us about their arrival 258 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:11.000 on the islands, their impression and just what happens initially 259 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:12.080 on that island. 260 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.200 Yeah, you know, the journey over was very difficult, of course, 261 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.720 you know, it's a long journey coming over from Europe 262 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:21.799 all the way to you know, the Pacific, off the 263 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:26.039 coast of Ecuador. As soon as they arrive, almost Dorry 264 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:29.320 starts feeling a sense of foreboding. You know, she had 265 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:32.240 done her research on the Glapagos and she had heard 266 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.639 all of these dark stories and lore about the island, 267 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.960 specifically Floriana. Floriana has a really fascinating history. It was 268 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.240 the Galapago's first penal colony that was once run by 269 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:47.039 a murderous dictator. And there was a pirate named Patrick 270 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:51.279 Watkins who was actually the first resident of Floriana. And 271 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:53.440 you know there were reports of him. You know, people 272 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:56.879 would ship whalers and people would stop by, and captains 273 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.840 would would encounter Patrick Watkins and he was always just 274 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.399 scribe is this terrifying man who was covered in vermin, 275 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.399 who just was drunk all the time and would threaten people. 276 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.399 And eventually he killed a bunch of captives and escaped Floriana. 277 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:13.919 But Dorry had read all this. She was terrified of 278 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.600 the ghost of Patrick Watkins, and she believed that in 279 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.200 one way or another, you know, Floriana might not accept 280 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:22.879 her and Frederick as residence and harm might come to them. 281 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:25.919 So she actually arrives on the island with the idea 282 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.799 that maybe this wasn't such a great idea after all. 283 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:35.080 Now Dorry loves animals, what do they experience, what do 284 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.639 they find regarding the animals, the exotic animals that are 285 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:39.559 on this island. 286 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.480 You know, they were much more concerned with sort of 287 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:48.679 practical things. They didn't do the really fanciful, you know, 288 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.080 complicated exploration that the wealthy Americans did. They were pretty 289 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.240 much trying to figure out how they were going to eat, 290 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.360 where they were going to sleep, how they were going 291 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.240 to prevent the animals from eating their garden. And that 292 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:02.840 was their biggest problem, because as soon as they started 293 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.039 planting seeds and crops started growing, they would just have 294 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.319 an invasive you know, a bunch of hordes of animals 295 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.519 coming in every night, wild boar, goats, all of these 296 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.039 animals that had weren't native to Floriana but had been 297 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.799 introduced by people in centuries prior and just sort of 298 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.000 taken over the island and were invasive. So they were 299 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:24.519 basically just worried they were going to starve to death 300 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.920 because every time they started getting a crop, going these 301 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:31.119 animals and insects and would just completely destroy everything they 302 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:34.319 had grown. So it was it was quite a concern. 303 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:38.799 And there's a couple funny stories of Frederick trying to 304 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:42.839 sort of battle these wild wild boars one on one, 305 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:46.000 these wild pigs. He called them the devil pigs. 306 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:50.160 Wow. Now they searched for they know that there was 307 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:53.799 legend has it that there's a spring, so they searching 308 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.920 for a spring. And you also note that Frederick had 309 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.480 decided not to bring a gun the island. 310 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.279 Yeah, you know, when they were discussing what to bring, 311 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.799 and it was quite an interesting exchange. Dory was like, 312 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.160 we should bring medicine. What if we get sick, what 313 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.319 if we have an infection, what if we are written pain? 314 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.720 And Frederick says, no, no, you're forgetting the lessons I've 315 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.319 taught you. You can heal anything with the power of 316 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.599 your mind. And you know then, you know, Frederick wants 317 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:24.880 to bring a gun and Dorry says, no, no, you 318 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.920 know that that's against our mission of peace and so 319 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.680 they don't bring either of those things, much to their 320 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:35.519 regret later, but they had quite a conversation about how 321 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:39.359 they were going to transfer from their gottle, relatively coddled 322 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.759 European life to this very strict life in Floriana where 323 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:45.920 they're going to be at bare minimums and just bare 324 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.559 minimum and just rely on their own instinct and rely 325 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:49.920 on their own willpower. 326 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.799 Really this Ecuadorian boy named Hugo, which was their guide. 327 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.519 You talk about that. Just a few days later there 328 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.160 was an incident or an accident with Hugo and one 329 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:04.400 of the animals on the island. 330 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.519 Yeah, So as soon as they disembark and they're on Floriana, 331 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.200 the ship, the captain who had ferried them over to 332 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:17.000 the island says that you can, you know, basically employ 333 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.960 this this native Ecuadorian boy, Hugo, to help you for 334 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:23.079 a little bit while, you know, while you're trying to 335 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:25.279 get your bearings and trying to figure out where you're 336 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:29.039 going to live. And Dorry notices that Frederick is jealous 337 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.839 of Hugo. He's very jealous that this boy, this young 338 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.000 boy who really knows nothing about you know, philosophy or 339 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.319 any of the lofty concerns that Frederick concerns himself with. 340 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.359 He was just this boy who instinctively knew how to 341 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.480 shoot and hunt and live on the land, and Frederick 342 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:50.039 was envious of this boy's skill. They start getting into 343 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.960 battles because Hugo immediately immediately starts killing some of the 344 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:57.039 wild pigs on the island, and Frederick protests, you know, 345 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.279 he's a vegetarian. He doesn't want to kill animal for 346 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.759 his own use. This is against all of his philosophy, 347 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:05.799 and so they get into battle about that because Hugo 348 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:09.000 is basically like, you want to eat, don't you. This 349 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:11.480 is what you have to do. And there's sort of 350 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.039 a you know, it gets off to a rocky start 351 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:17.160 right away, and Dory observes, you know, interesting things about 352 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:22.000 Frederick and really what his pride was wounded, and it's 353 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:25.240 something that she sort of notices and holds onto and 354 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.240 for future reference with him. 355 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:31.400 You're right about post Office Bay, which is an important 356 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.559 locale on this island. Tell us about post Office Bay 357 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:37.039 and its role. 358 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:40.599 So in the early nineteenth century and all throughout the 359 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:45.279 nineteenth century, what whalers would pass by in Floriana Florianda 360 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.640 became known for this barrel. It was erected on a 361 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.319 pole and it was stuck down on the shore on 362 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.000 post Office Bay, where people could leave letters in the 363 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.680 little barrel and whalers who were passing through and heading, 364 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.160 you know, home or to wherever they were going, pick 365 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.759 up the letters see if there was anything heading to 366 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:04.720 the area where they were heading, and then they would 367 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.640 deliver them. And this became the way that mail was 368 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:09.920 sent to and from Floriana. And you can imagine it 369 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:11.759 took quite a bit of time for any of these 370 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.440 letters to reach their destinations, but it was quite an 371 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:17.880 ingenious way for male system work on a remote island 372 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.920 like that. And post Office Bay there's still a barrel there. 373 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.640 Of course it's not the original barrel, but it's still there. 374 00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:26.599 And when I had visited Floriana, I left a couple 375 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:29.200 letters in there, and I took a couple and delivered them. 376 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.119 So the tradition continues, but Post Office would they would 377 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.319 become instrumental to the story, and even undone because Frederick 378 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.319 and Dory and all of the other exiles you show 379 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.240 up would start sending letters to the Americans that they 380 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:47.960 befriended and keep them abreast of the really interesting developments 381 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.079 that were going on in Floriana. 382 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:53.759 You talk about the sailors that would come to the island, 383 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:58.799 and we talk about the ship of the Manuel j Cobos. 384 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.160 Do you talk about that. Fridrick and Dorry really want 385 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.359 to be alone, and so they every time that someone 386 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.200 comes there, they talk about and have a discussion about 387 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:14.880 not wanting people to come there to visit them. They 388 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:15.680 want to be alone. 389 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.200 Yeah, So, I mean they were alone for quite a 390 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:23.440 few months. They arrived in the fall of nineteen twenty nine. 391 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:27.720 But in January, the first American shows up on Floriana. 392 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:31.160 This is Eugene MacDonald. He was the founder of Zenith Radio. 393 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:34.720 And he arrives in Floriana in his yacht with his 394 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:39.079 scientific crew, you know, intending to just gather some exotic animals, 395 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:41.759 and he encounters Dory and Frederick and he's shocked, you know, 396 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:45.119 he thought nobody lived there. And so he speaks with them, 397 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:49.079 here's about their mission, here's about their utopia, and reports 398 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:51.160 all of this back on the wire. Reports as soon 399 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.880 as he leaves, so words spreads quickly that there's this 400 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.319 quote modern day Adam and Eve living on this island 401 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:01.279