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True Murder with 32 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:43.280 your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. 33 00:01:43.719 --> 00:01:48.319 In nineteen seventy nine, Brenda Spencer, a seemingly average teenage 34 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:52.040 girl living in a nice suburban neighborhood, made and executed 35 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.640 plans that would place her in infamy in set a 36 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:59.040 violent and terrifying national precedent. She received a rifle for Christmas, 37 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:02.159 and a month later, Setter sits and open fire on 38 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:05.480 the elementary school across the street. The event is forever 39 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:08.680 glorified by the song I Don't Like Mondays by the 40 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:12.360 Boomtown Rats, and marks the bloody beginning of the American 41 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:17.280 phenomenon of school shootings, long before Columbine and Sandy hook, 42 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:20.439 there was Brenda Spencer. I Don't Like Mondays, The True 43 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:24.199 Story of America's first modern school shooting, sifts through the 44 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:27.919 mythology that has sprung up around this faithful day, presenting 45 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.879 the raw and riveting facts for the first time. This 46 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:34.759 book lays bare the seemingly average teenage girl's brutal motives 47 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:38.919 and subsequent arrest. N Lee Hunt spent years researching and 48 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:44.520 uncovering shocking details from officers, investigators, and lost police dispatches. 49 00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:47.400 He has interviewed people who were on the scene and 50 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:50.960 local reporters who spoke with him with the perpetrator directly 51 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:55.560 after her shooting spree. Hunt has even cultivated an unlikely 52 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.240 rapport with the killer, and through personal interviews, has shed 53 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:03.759 light on previously unknown details about her upbringing and influences. 54 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:06.319 The book that we're featuring this evening is I Don't 55 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:11.240 Like Mondays, The True Story behind America's first modern school shooting, 56 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:17.120 with my special guest, author, crime historian and broadcaster and 57 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:19.599 Lee Hunt. Welcome to the program, and thank you so 58 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:22.400 much for this interview. And Lee Hunt, thanks for having me. 59 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:23.240 Dan plead to be here. 60 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:26.400 Thanks, thank you so much. Now, first off, please tell 61 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.240 us how you came to be the author of this story, 62 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.879 why you wanted to do this story, and how you 63 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:33.120 had the opportunity. 64 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:36.159 Well, I grew up in San Diego, like so many people, 65 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.240 and you know know San Diego as being that small 66 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.759 town in the seventies, and it just grew bigger and bigger, bigger. 67 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:42.800 Now it's a massive city. My parents were British and 68 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:44.840 we moved there sort of living the American dream. When 69 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.319 I was a young kid. My dad was the journalist 70 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.080 the Satday Evening Tribute at the time, and he was 71 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:52.159 working at the city desk and one day he came 72 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:54.159 home from school and said, you won't believe what's happened. 73 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:56.240 I'm so glad you're safe. And he just said, you know, 74 00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:59.319 a number of kids your age were just shot today 75 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:01.639 at school. It's just changed San Diego forever. And we 76 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:03.719 sat for a long time and talked about this story. 77 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.039 So it's something I was essentially my first venture into 78 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:07.599 true crime, if you will. I mean, now it's a 79 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:09.759 genre that everyone talks about. Back then, it was just 80 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.840 called horror, and I spent my entire life thinking of 81 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:15.319 this case, and it was something that's you know, I 82 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:17.680 went in to do research and crime history, and I 83 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:19.639 studied serial killers for a long time. I went into 84 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.079 broadcasting and even done some radio stuff about local crime. 85 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:24.519 And someone said to me, you know, you really should 86 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:26.480 write a book about Brenda Spencer, because you know so 87 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:28.800 much about it, because your father was heavily involved in 88 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:31.519 what happened that day. And it wasn't until I sort 89 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:33.920 of got late into my years that I noticed that 90 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:35.959 no one had written a book about this, nobody had 91 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:38.279 ever sort of captured it. But yet we're You're hearing 92 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:41.000 every single year, and sometimes more than once a year, 93 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.560 about another school shooting that was happening in America, and 94 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.120 nothing was changing. So I just dove deep into it 95 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.240 and thought, let's actually recount all the facts. Let's get 96 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:52.000 all the information without any hoopla, without any media hype, 97 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:54.959 and just recount everything that happened that day, by everyone 98 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.920 who was involved, and maybe we could come to some 99 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.079 sort of idea as to why it happened. I'm not 100 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.000 looking for solution. I just wanted to sort of get 101 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.360 the facts together to see if maybe maybe the story 102 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:05.560 behind Brenda is not that different than the story behind 103 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:08.759 all the other dozens of school shootings. So that's pretty 104 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:10.480 much the motivation for doing it. I went back to 105 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:13.160 my basics, the one that actually brought true crime into 106 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.040 my orbit, and just thought, let's just make my first 107 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.680 book about Brenda. And that's exactly what it did. So 108 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:20.519 I wrote to her. She wrote back, and the rest 109 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:21.000 is history. 110 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:24.040 Well, let's get to that history as you write. Monday, 111 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:28.040 January twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine, in San Carlos, which 112 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.360 is a suburb of San Diego, a little after eight am, 113 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.160 tell us what happens at this Cleveland school. 114 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:36.120 Yeah, we'll start with San Carlos because sant Carlos is 115 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.759 actually more of like a really big neighborhood in sort 116 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:40.680 of the East County of the San Diego City. And 117 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.920 the reason why that's important is because I think people 118 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.399 in the East County of San Diego felt that it 119 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:48.120 was part of the county, which the sheriffs would be 120 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:50.959 part of their jurisdiction, and the city kind of part 121 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:53.360 didn't even know that it existed, and people said San Carlos, 122 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:54.959 I didn't know where it was. But it was actually 123 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:57.560 the police, the local police who were called to attend, 124 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:01.160 so shots ring out the reception after school. Here's the 125 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:03.360 bullets and looks around and doesn't know where they're coming from. 126 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:05.720 Nobody can really identify where the bullets were coming from. 127 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:08.600 Kids were running into the office saying this were being shot. 128 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.959 Children had fallen in the driveway leading up to the 129 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.600 front of the school. And this is a California style 130 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.360 sort of bungalow style school, so it's one level. It's 131 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:18.279 not like the tall school buildings that you see on 132 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:20.480 the East coast of America. It's a very small, one 133 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:22.480 level school with a car park in the front. And 134 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:24.319 the kids came running up and the receptions called to 135 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.079 the police, and back then you dialed zero and asked 136 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.519 the operator and then said I need the police. So 137 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:31.759 there was no nine one one, There were no paramedics. 138 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:34.079 It was literally just scared people on the phone calling 139 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:35.959 other people who were hoping to do the right thing 140 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.160 to dispatch. Police started turning up as fast as they 141 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.600 could from all over the city and everybody came in 142 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:43.199 and as they arrived on the scene, it was then 143 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:45.920 quickly determined that Brenda was across the road shooting from 144 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:47.680 her front door with the twenty two, and she had 145 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:49.920 already shot a number of students and bullets had hit 146 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:52.120 the principal and the custodian as they came out to 147 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:53.920 rescue children in the front of the school. Quite an 148 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:54.600 alarming saying. 149 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:58.480 You write that there was parents at this time and 150 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:02.040 at various stages after eight am that were dropping off 151 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.560 their kids that were oblivious to this sniper across the 152 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.240 street shooting at students and teachers and staff. 153 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:11.399 Exactly right. Twenty two caliber rifle is not the loudest 154 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:14.000 of weapons, one of the smallest caliber weapons that was 155 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.240 available at that time. Brenda was a sixteen year old 156 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:19.279 girl who received it for Christmas just prior to the shooting, 157 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.439 which was January twenty ninth, so it's certainly had it 158 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.199 just over a month, and these bullets were ringing out. 159 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:26.000 People thought, you know, perhaps it was backfiring car, perhaps 160 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:28.240 it was even fireworks. Because it was the Chinese New 161 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.800 Year weekend just passed, parents pulled up in their car, 162 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:32.480 dropped their kids off, kids got out of the car, 163 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.000 they drove away like any normal school day. It was 164 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.920 quite unremarkable in that respect, except for Brenda was shooting 165 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:39.839 from across the road. So one of the students that 166 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:42.319 luckily got away actually was dropped off by their mother 167 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:44.480 and just walked up the path happily while someone was 168 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:46.480 shot right next to them. Could have been them. Very 169 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:47.680 lucky to tell. 170 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.959 Us about the actions of Principal Rag and and also 171 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:54.560 custodian Mike Sukhar, which they called mister Mike. 172 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.920 Yeah, mister Mike was sort of this sort of legendary 173 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:58.959 big hero guy, you know, when of these big, sort 174 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.480 of strapping veteran who took care of the school and 175 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:05.360 everybody liked him. Principal Rag was a career educator, really 176 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.000 decent guy. A lot of students tell stories about how 177 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:10.160 he would he would pretend to have the same interests 178 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:13.319 as them to keep them motivated and interested in school 179 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.360 each day. He really really these two guys seemed as, 180 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:18.560 if you know, some of the greatest people that had 181 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.800 ever worked within the educational environment in San Diego. They 182 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:23.959 saw a child fall to the ground, didn't know what 183 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:27.000 it was, I think, without thinking, both these gentlemen ran 184 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:28.639 to the front of the school to help the children. 185 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:30.720 One of them saw the other fall to the ground 186 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.279 with some sort of injury. Didn't know what that was, 187 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:35.080 so they ran to his rescue. So it's essentially just 188 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:38.200 people you know who were in roll model positions taking 189 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:40.840 care of their students, and Brenda targeted them. I think 190 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:44.000 they were larger targets for her. Perhaps perhaps maybe she 191 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.159 was aiming for the adults, because she didn't actually kill 192 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:49.399 any children that day, and she swiftly lended bullets right 193 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:51.279 into the chest of both these gentlemen. It was quite 194 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:54.279 a shame. Police arrived and were told to arrive in 195 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:56.399 the back of the school. Some did, some didn't because 196 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:59.279 this going back to the days of radio dispatch. They 197 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.360 ran right One of them, Officer Rob ran straight up, 198 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:05.159 straight up to mister Mike and Principal Rag and took 199 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.240 a bullet straight to his neck. With all the adrenaline 200 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.159 he was still managed to lift them to a gurney 201 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:11.519 and get them into an ambulance and off to the hospital, 202 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:13.879 and then later found that the bullet hit his spine 203 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:16.039 and he then later collapsed but did survive. 204 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:19.240 There was another officer that realized that there was a 205 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:21.919 trash truck and he could use it to his advantage. 206 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:23.399 What did they do with this trash truck? 207 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.399 Well, yeah, Ted Kasigknak, who now sort of become friends 208 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:27.879 with in a way, he's a bit of a hero. 209 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:30.639 He arrived from the opposite side of the school and 210 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.639 was able to sort of identify that, hey, this shooting 211 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:35.480 is coming from across the road, and he sort of 212 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.200 looked around and didn't know what to do. And a 213 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:40.159 large trash truck had just been picking up the trash 214 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:43.000 on any normal neighborhood, and I've got I sort of 215 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:45.639 mentioned that San Carlos is sort of like a Spielberg 216 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:48.639 Ass type neighborhood. This is a very typical track home, 217 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.399 you know, all sort of single level dwellings. All the 218 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:54.159 houses down the road kind of looked alike, all the 219 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:57.000 gardens are maintained. This is a very nice neighborhood in 220 00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:57.799 southern California. 221 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:58.200 Standard. 222 00:09:58.200 --> 00:09:59.879 He saw the garbage truck and thought, you know what, 223 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:01.799 these people are being shot in front of the school. 224 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.159 And somehow he jumped in it and commandeered it, got 225 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.000 it started, drove it up a narrow part the parking 226 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:08.840 lot in front of the school, around a few vehicles 227 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:11.200 that were parked there, and managed to pull it within 228 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:14.480 twenty feet of the front entrance to the school, the walkway, 229 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.360 blocking Brenda's vision from all the students that were hiding 230 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:20.279 along that walkway. He saved potentially dozens of lives that day. 231 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:21.559 It is one of the most heroic I think in 232 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:23.480 San Diego history, part of one of the most heroque 233 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:25.639 things that could have happened that day, and certainly school 234 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:28.840 shootings forty three laters could still use that type of 235 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:32.000 heroic action. So Ted Cazignak is pretty much a legend. 236 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:34.840 He stayed the entire day behind that truck, keeping siphon 237 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.840 Brenda until finally she was apprehended. It's quite remarkable fate 238 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:38.240 you had. 239 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.639 One of the teachers is featured in this book named Barns, 240 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:46.080 and he was seeing the principal and the custodian down 241 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.279 in front of the school and then was yelling to 242 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.080 children that were oblivious to run and run into the school. 243 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:55.039 Tell us about the efforts of the teachers to safeguard 244 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:59.440 these students, not realizing what was going on whatsoever regarding 245 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:00.639 the sniper across the street. 246 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.279 Yeah, I think when the principal and the custodian, it 247 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.080 was traditional for the principle to be out in the 248 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:07.120 mornings to open the gate with the custodian and even 249 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.399 a way to parents. You know, they were doing their role, 250 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:11.519 so they were in the place they need to be Barnes, 251 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:13.039 the teacher was sort of his role was more to 252 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:14.679 stay in the office and to take care of some 253 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.000 of the administration stuff. So when he saw this unfolding, 254 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.440 he had no choice would take a leadership role. You know, 255 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:22.440 he was the assistant's principal. It was I suppose he 256 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:25.679 took that role, and he essentially ushered dozens and dozens 257 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.799 of children and actually organized some of the other teachers 258 00:11:27.879 --> 00:11:30.960 to pick the children into their rooms, lock the door, hide, 259 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:34.080 get down. I think unwittingly, Barnes and the other teachers 260 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.240 who were on scene that day, and some of the 261 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:40.360 police officers, I think it are unwittingly setting up dynamic 262 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:42.720 sort of crisis education for all the children. And a 263 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.519 lot of the things that they did that day are 264 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.200 incorporated in the ALICE training, which is the school violence 265 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:49.679 training the police officers get today. Just by their actions 266 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.000 that day that saved lives. It was essentially duck and cover, 267 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:54.080 is what Barnes was telling the students, and they all 268 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.200 ran for cover. Some were stuck in the bushes along 269 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:58.960 the walkway, somewhere behind the cars in the parking lot 270 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:02.039 in between the front of the school and Brenda's house. 271 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.320 Across the road. I think he just said, we're all 272 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.039 getting for cover. Everybody get down, and he continued this 273 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:09.559 chant throughout the fire alarm was going off. There was 274 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:12.120 a lot of stress. More parents were pulling up with 275 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:15.000 children in their cars. It really became quite a scene. 276 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:17.159 You could imagine for those who were at the school, 277 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:19.519 they could hear the gunshots and knew what were going 278 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.120 what was going on, But for those just arriving, all 279 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.519 they could hear was fire alarm, had a frenzy teacher 280 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:26.279 telling everyone to get down. It's part of what an 281 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:27.440 alarming steam. Now. 282 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:32.120 The San Diego Evening Tribune comes into this story with 283 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:36.679 police reporter Frank Asaldera. He's on the police scanner and 284 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.519 he recognized the call was out of the ordinary, so 285 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:42.879 he calls into the newspaper's head office and the chief 286 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.840 assistant city editor is Bernie Hunt. Your father tell us 287 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:47.600 about this. 288 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:50.120 My father. Yeah. So his role was to make sure 289 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:52.360 all the boarders are out on their beat doing their stuff, 290 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.240 and Frank was down at the cop shop as they 291 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:56.159 call it. And you know, a shooting in San Diego 292 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:59.519 was not that uncommon. It was uncommon, but not that uncommon. 293 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:01.840 But that time of the morning at a school. It 294 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:04.519 was really uncommon, and they took the call and immediately 295 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.600 my dad sort of dispatched anybody it was around. But 296 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:08.799 at eight o'clock in the morning, their newspapers are already 297 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:11.320 out in their day there, you know, they're the evening paper. 298 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:14.080 They're already kind of started their day is their deadline 299 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.519 is sort of around nine am, So this was sort 300 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.000 of right at a key moment where people weren't available. 301 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.639 My dad and Mike Walker, who is the city editor, 302 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:24.320 they walked down to a desk where they found an 303 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.720 available reporter and it just happened to be Steve Wigan, 304 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.240 who was the political reporter for San Diego, and he 305 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:31.679 was just getting ready to leave up to Los Angeles 306 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.919 to cover some politics that was going on around town. 307 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:35.679 And he said, you're not going anywhere. I needed you 308 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:37.399 to start making phone calls. We got a shooter in 309 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.879 San Carlos, and of course everyone said where and he said, look, 310 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.600 just cover it. Here's a crisscross directory. Now, back way 311 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:44.039 back in the day, you and I are probably old 312 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:46.200 enough to remember, but many people wouldn't won't be. They 313 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.399 used to have these big phone books with everybody's name 314 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:50.120 in it and their phone numbers, and they have this 315 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:52.720 thing called the Crisscross which was the exact opposite of that. 316 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.240 So it had the address with the phone number and 317 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:56.720 the name of people, so you can look it up 318 00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:59.240 by address. So Steve Weigan just thumbed through this phone 319 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:01.879 book Crisscross record found the house that was across the 320 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.080 street from the from the shooting from the school. He 321 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:05.960 just he dialed it first. It was a very sort 322 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.440 of easy number to dial. I think that the doal 323 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:10.519 was two three four five with the last four digits. 324 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.480 So he went there first. A young girl answers the phone, 325 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:15.320 and he initially says, you know, it's your mom home, 326 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:17.639 because he can't believe that. You know, what's she doing home? 327 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:18.879 It's got to be a parent I want to speak 328 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:20.679 with And she said no, I'm here alone. He said, well, 329 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:22.320 I hear there's a shooting. Do you know anything about it? 330 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.360 And she says, yeah, it's me and he doesn't believe it. 331 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.200 She kind of hangs up, and he calls back away 332 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.759 and says, well, why are you doing this? And she says, well, 333 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.200 you know, I just don't like mondays livens up the day. 334 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:32.759 I got to go now and do some more shooting. 335 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:35.000 So Steve Wigan and the guys at the evening tribute, 336 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.360 and one of them being my father, had actually stopped 337 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:40.480 Brenda in mid shot to answer the telephone. Either her 338 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:43.519 vanity or adolescence, I don't know what it was stopped 339 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.159 her from shooting to answer the phone. It's quite remarkable. 340 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.440 He asked her obvious questions right away, like why are 341 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.799 you shooting at innocent people? What kind of responses does 342 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:53.159 he get. 343 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:55.279 I don't think he gets any clear response other than 344 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:57.559 I just don't like mondays, this livens up the day. 345 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.000 You know, I see their blue jumpers, I want to shoot, 346 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.039 you know. I don't think he was getting anything out 347 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.440 of her immediately, he says to my dad, he says, 348 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.200 you know. To the editors, he says, look, I've got 349 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:08.919 her on the phone, and my dad says, well, you 350 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:11.639 get to writing the story because we're hitting deadline. He 351 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:15.320 calls in Gus, who's another key journalist and reporter who 352 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.159 was on the scene, and said, you give her call back. 353 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:19.440 You get as much information out of her as she can, 354 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.360 and the two of them sort of worked together to 355 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.080 fashion the story for the front page that afternoon. It 356 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.480 was all about getting the story and all about finding 357 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.159 out why she was doing it. I don't think they 358 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.000 got any clearer or anything really out of her, but 359 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.639 is the most remarkably that she stopped shooting people in 360 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:35.960 order to tell everybody what she was up to. Eventually, 361 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:37.840 if I can carry on with the story, they try 362 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:39.679 and stay on the phone with her as long as 363 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.519 they possibly can, because I think twofold they realized that 364 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:44.440 they're getting the story, which of course their reporters and 365 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.240 that's their job. Secondly, I think they suddenly realized that 366 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:49.120 as long as they speak to her, she's not shooting 367 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.320 anybody else. Eventually, the police have now cordoned off the area. 368 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.840 The students were pretty much in safety. Ted Casanat had 369 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.200 done this in a tremendous job of blocking her vision 370 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:00.840 with this truck. They eventually called the Tribune and go, 371 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:02.840 we hear you're on the phone with the shooter. Knock 372 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:04.720 it off, get off the phone. Will you want to 373 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.000 speak with her? And that's kind of where they kind 374 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:09.000 of put it to rest there and just decided to 375 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:10.080 go to press with the story. 376 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:15.360 Now, the police contact parents, Wally and Dorothy. What you 377 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.320 called dot? What did they find from the parents, What 378 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:20.200 information do they find from the parents, and what do 379 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.600 they want from the parents at that time. 380 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:24.799 Well, again, she's you know, they know that she's under age, 381 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:26.480 or they believe she's under age. They are going to 382 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.039 contact the parents. Certainly. The father was only working at 383 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.200 San Diego State University not far away, so he was 384 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:34.679 quite available, and he was semi popular orcs, so people 385 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:37.279 knew him. The mother was working at a golf tournament 386 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.240 up in Tory Pines. San Diego has this beautiful golf 387 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:42.519 course I don't even know. Tory Pines was actually stunning, 388 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:44.759 and she was one of the accountants for a huge 389 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.559 golf tournament that just happened over that weekend. They initially 390 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:49.559 call her and she says, you know, I can't make it. 391 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:51.480 I've got a table full of cash, I'm counting money. 392 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:53.759 I can't come. Whatever it is, Brenda can handle it. 393 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:55.799 And they said, no, I don't think you understand your 394 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:58.399 daughter is shooting people. And I think there's something in 395 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:00.600 that that has never sat right me, with the fact 396 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.960 that the mother didn't immediately jump to attention. The family 397 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.000 had gone through a horrible divorce a number of years before, 398 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.519 and I think Dodt had just felt that Brenda was 399 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:12.559 Wally's problem, or Wally should take care of all these 400 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.200 little things like whatever Brenda's not going to school or 401 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.359