WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:05.780 The Joe Rogan Experience. 2 00:00:06.219 --> 00:00:09.560 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. 3 00:00:09.580 --> 00:00:14.500 All right. Jamie's very geeked out. I want to let 4 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:17.059 you know. He didn't want to say it. Shawshank is 5 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.300 his all-time favorite movie. So he was kind of freaking 6 00:00:19.339 --> 00:00:19.859 out when he met you. 7 00:00:19.899 --> 00:00:20.460 Thanks, Jamie. 8 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:21.539 No problem. 9 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:21.899 Thank you. 10 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:24.989 It's all-time. I mean, you're a part of one of, like, 11 00:00:25.190 --> 00:00:27.629 easily one of the greatest movies in the history of people. 12 00:00:28.190 --> 00:00:31.309 I know. It's such a gift. I mean, when people... 13 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:34.990 Come up and say something about it. It usually is 14 00:00:35.049 --> 00:00:37.289 coming from a pretty deep place. Yeah. 15 00:00:37.869 --> 00:00:40.049 If you didn't like that movie, there's something– you should 16 00:00:40.090 --> 00:00:43.149 go to a doctor. You need medication. There's something wrong 17 00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:46.520 with you. It's an amazing movie. And weird that it's 18 00:00:46.549 --> 00:00:50.460 a Stephen King movie too. That guy is arguably one 19 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:52.700 of the most prolific guys in the history of fiction. 20 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:56.460 Yeah. And in the same novella, there was Stand By 21 00:00:56.500 --> 00:00:56.920 Me too. 22 00:00:57.240 --> 00:00:58.060 Oh, wow. 23 00:00:58.240 --> 00:00:58.479 Yeah. 24 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:03.189 That's amazing. It's so weird. His stuff varies so much. 25 00:01:03.210 --> 00:01:05.129 He had to do like a pseudonym at one point 26 00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:06.750 in time. Remember? He did Richard Bachman. 27 00:01:06.890 --> 00:01:07.090 Yeah, yeah. 28 00:01:07.109 --> 00:01:08.930 Because he was churning out so many books. They're like, hey, 29 00:01:08.950 --> 00:01:12.379 we can't keep selling these fucking Stephen King books. And 30 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:14.420 he's like, well, how about I come up with another name? 31 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:16.040 Like give me a fake name. And he just started 32 00:01:16.060 --> 00:01:17.500 killing it under a fake name. Just got to keep 33 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:17.879 writing it. 34 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:19.599 Got to, got to, got to. Yeah. 35 00:01:20.019 --> 00:01:24.650 Wild. Wild guy. Yeah. Just a very unusual human. You know, 36 00:01:24.689 --> 00:01:25.250 they exist. 37 00:01:25.750 --> 00:01:26.969 Yeah. Totally met him once. 38 00:01:27.310 --> 00:01:29.439 Really? Yeah. Did you meet him like when you were 39 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:30.099 filming the movie? 40 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:32.859 Around the premiere time. Yeah. Yeah. 41 00:01:32.900 --> 00:01:34.280 So he's out there, man. 42 00:01:34.299 --> 00:01:35.000 Yeah. 43 00:01:35.180 --> 00:01:39.609 You know, during his early days, I'm fascinated by his 44 00:01:39.689 --> 00:01:42.049 early days because his early days he was off the 45 00:01:42.150 --> 00:01:45.689 rails with cocaine and alcohol and some of the best 46 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:48.459 shit that he made. Really? He doesn't even remember writing it. 47 00:01:48.939 --> 00:01:49.180 Wow. 48 00:01:49.659 --> 00:01:51.420 I think Cooch, I think it's one of the books 49 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.890 his wife took out of the garbage bin. Cause he 50 00:01:53.930 --> 00:01:56.379 threw it away. He's like, fuck this book sucks. It was, 51 00:01:56.670 --> 00:01:59.219 it was Cujo or one of the classics. 52 00:01:59.400 --> 00:01:59.719 Yeah. 53 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.280 And she was like, are you out of your fucking mind? Like, 54 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.140 this is incredible. And he was literally going to throw 55 00:02:05.180 --> 00:02:06.819 it out. Cause it was just out of his mind. 56 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:10.680 He wrote the shining, right? Yeah. So what was it? Carrie? Yeah. 57 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:11.800 He threw Carrie away. 58 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:13.099 Crazy. 59 00:02:13.219 --> 00:02:13.879 Crazy. 60 00:02:14.349 --> 00:02:18.870 That's crazy. Yeah. Shining was a big movie from a book, 61 00:02:18.909 --> 00:02:21.280 big book for me. I was, you know, working in a, 62 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:25.360 Nine to five job and in between colleges and it 63 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:28.979 really like woke me up to all kinds of great 64 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:31.280 possibilities in writing. 65 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:34.379 Well, he hated the movie, which is so crazy because 66 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:39.430 he felt like Jack Nicholson got insane too quickly. Really? Yeah, 67 00:02:39.469 --> 00:02:41.870 because in the book– I read the book too. It's 68 00:02:42.530 --> 00:02:46.099 very different, similar but different. It's more of a drawn 69 00:02:46.180 --> 00:02:51.240 out process of him becoming possessed by the property. Slower rollout. 70 00:02:51.259 --> 00:02:51.439 Yeah. 71 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.629 He like Jack Nicholson was kind of kooky already, like 72 00:02:54.689 --> 00:03:00.270 right away, which, you know, it's Jack Nicholson. It's also 73 00:03:00.469 --> 00:03:03.689 Stanley Kubrick. It's like, he's got to do his interpretation 74 00:03:03.770 --> 00:03:05.310 of it. You just got to accept that. 75 00:03:06.229 --> 00:03:07.930 Yeah. That's some scary shit in that. 76 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:10.620 Fuck man. His books are insane. 77 00:03:10.810 --> 00:03:11.030 Yeah. 78 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:13.590 It's like, What is going on inside that guy's– or 79 00:03:13.650 --> 00:03:15.509 was going on inside that guy's mind when he was 80 00:03:15.550 --> 00:03:15.930 writing that? 81 00:03:15.969 --> 00:03:16.409 God knows. 82 00:03:17.189 --> 00:03:19.090 I think once he got clean, he kind of changed 83 00:03:19.189 --> 00:03:23.900 and straightened out and different human now. But boy, I'm 84 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:28.819 fascinated by the off-the-rails days because the books were so nuts. 85 00:03:29.020 --> 00:03:30.460 Was Shawshank during that time? 86 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:34.439 I don't know. It must have been. It must have 87 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:39.379 been because I don't think he got sober until– it 88 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.360 was decades after his career began. 89 00:03:42.379 --> 00:03:42.680 Wow. 90 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:48.539 Some of the great stuff, like I think all the stand, 91 00:03:48.580 --> 00:03:49.939 I think all that stuff, he was out of his 92 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:51.080 mind and he was writing all those. 93 00:03:51.099 --> 00:03:53.439 But in the midst of all that madness, there's a tenderness, 94 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:53.840 you know? 95 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:57.379 Oh yeah. Oh, great humanity to it all. Yeah. Yeah. 96 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.439 I mean, but also just a true understanding of the 97 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:05.800 darkest nature of humans and, and how they're influenced. And 98 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:09.900 then of course, you know, demonic possession and, Salem's lot 99 00:04:09.909 --> 00:04:11.379 and all that other crazy shit. It was like, he 100 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:13.139 was just so good. 101 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:16.259 But then the idea that a library can be the, uh, 102 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:20.100 you know, in Shawshank that the library can be the liberation. Yeah. 103 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.379 Yeah. No, it was amazing. Amazing movie. Um, we were 104 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:28.220 talking about your new show silo, which I did not new. Um, 105 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.879 it's been around for three seasons. I just started watching it. 106 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:33.459 So it's new to me. I watched the first two 107 00:04:33.500 --> 00:04:36.610 episodes last night. It was fucking great and very original 108 00:04:36.670 --> 00:04:39.959 and interesting. And I was telling you before that it 109 00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:43.259 made me think of this place that they discovered fairly 110 00:04:43.339 --> 00:04:48.569 recently in Turkey called Derinkuyu. And Derinkuyu is this underground 111 00:04:48.670 --> 00:04:56.389 city that's massive. I think it could hold 20,000 people. 112 00:04:56.569 --> 00:04:56.910 Wow. 113 00:04:57.129 --> 00:04:58.089 Something nutty like that. 114 00:04:58.110 --> 00:04:59.310 I've seen pictures of it. 115 00:05:00.170 --> 00:05:01.750 Found completely by accident. 116 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:02.149 Yeah. 117 00:05:02.370 --> 00:05:05.459 So some guy lost one of his chickens, went through 118 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:07.910 a hole in the wall and never came back. And 119 00:05:07.949 --> 00:05:09.829 he was trying to figure out where this fucking chicken went. 120 00:05:09.970 --> 00:05:11.949 So he broke down the wall to see what was 121 00:05:11.970 --> 00:05:15.670 going on. And then they realized that there's this insane 122 00:05:16.189 --> 00:05:17.209 underground city. 123 00:05:17.230 --> 00:05:17.870 Oh, my God. 124 00:05:18.269 --> 00:05:22.589 Yeah, underneath this town in Turkey. And it's massive. Just 125 00:05:22.910 --> 00:05:26.290 absolutely massive. They have no idea who made it. There's 126 00:05:26.329 --> 00:05:27.740 no historical record of it. 127 00:05:27.870 --> 00:05:28.889 Any idea of when? 128 00:05:29.870 --> 00:05:33.129 Well, you know, they make guesses based on stuff they 129 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.860 find there. But it's when you carbon date an object, right? 130 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:39.279 So you could go visit the pyramids today, right? And 131 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:42.959 you could leave behind some stuff, right? And then everybody dies. 132 00:05:43.060 --> 00:05:46.819 Humanity dies out in a cataclysm. And then 100,000 years 133 00:05:46.860 --> 00:05:50.740 from now, people start looking through the piles of some 134 00:05:50.779 --> 00:05:52.870 of these sites and the pyramids will probably still be there. 135 00:05:53.230 --> 00:05:55.629 And if there was any organic material left, like a 136 00:05:55.730 --> 00:05:58.870 book that you left or a leather-bound book or some 137 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:01.779 piece of wood, they could carbon date that. And then 138 00:06:01.819 --> 00:06:03.579 that would say the time that you were there. But 139 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.740 it wouldn't say the time that the actual structure was made. 140 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:08.879 So who knows how long people– show me some more 141 00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:10.319 pictures of that, please. I was looking up when it 142 00:06:10.339 --> 00:06:13.319 was made. Do they know? No, definitely don't know. They 143 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.819 didn't even know it existed. I mean it was– when 144 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:19.189 was it found? I feel like it was found in 145 00:06:19.230 --> 00:06:20.149 the 20th century. 146 00:06:21.110 --> 00:06:23.750 There must have been some kind of hostile force that 147 00:06:23.810 --> 00:06:26.670 they built it to escape from. Exactly. 148 00:06:26.689 --> 00:06:28.350 Or something going on outside. 149 00:06:28.370 --> 00:06:28.449 Yeah. 150 00:06:29.189 --> 00:06:36.089 And not just hostile but environmental. So 1963, rediscovered in 1963. 151 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:36.180 Wow. 152 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:42.800 That's crazy. It was in his fucking house. Even today, 153 00:06:42.899 --> 00:06:45.959 only 10% of it is accessible to tourists. The rest 154 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.240 is still being explored. That's how nuts it is. So 155 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:51.920 how many people do they think it held when it 156 00:06:51.980 --> 00:06:56.420 was operational? I think it's something like 20,000 people. That's 157 00:06:56.459 --> 00:06:57.439 how big this place is. 158 00:06:58.699 --> 00:06:59.720 That's amazing. 159 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:04.069 So they don't know when or why. And depending on 160 00:07:04.110 --> 00:07:05.970 how– around 20,000 people. 161 00:07:05.990 --> 00:07:06.629 Plus livestock. 162 00:07:07.189 --> 00:07:09.389 Plus livestock and food stores. 163 00:07:10.100 --> 00:07:11.699 Really? How'd they farm down there? 164 00:07:12.139 --> 00:07:15.660 Who fucking knows? I don't know. But they had grain storage. 165 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.120 They had all kinds of stuff down there. 166 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:18.689 Oil presses. 167 00:07:18.689 --> 00:07:23.889 18 levels reaching 85 meters. So 280 feet deep into 168 00:07:23.910 --> 00:07:28.730 the ground with ventilation shafts, wells, stables, wine and oil presses, 169 00:07:28.769 --> 00:07:32.769 storage rooms, chapels and school rooms. Plus a half ton 170 00:07:32.850 --> 00:07:35.670 circular stone doors that could be rolled shut from the 171 00:07:35.750 --> 00:07:40.139 inside only. So they were obviously either fighting off some 172 00:07:40.189 --> 00:07:43.709 sort of an army or the outside air was hostile. 173 00:07:43.730 --> 00:07:44.709 There was something going on. 174 00:07:44.709 --> 00:07:45.649 Got too hot or something. 175 00:07:45.670 --> 00:07:46.129 Could have been. 176 00:07:46.170 --> 00:07:47.009 Yeah, yeah. 177 00:07:47.089 --> 00:07:50.889 Well, there's been many moments in the time that human 178 00:07:50.930 --> 00:07:54.089 beings were alive where there have been cataclysms. There's this 179 00:07:54.149 --> 00:07:58.189 thing called the Younger Dryas Impact Theory that's around 11,800 180 00:07:58.189 --> 00:08:01.660 years ago. There's all this evidence that there was massive 181 00:08:01.819 --> 00:08:04.259 asteroid impacts all over the earth, comet impacts. 182 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:04.540 Uh-huh. 183 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.279 And they think that it was probably a reset of civilization. 184 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:12.319 And so this could have been post that. It could 185 00:08:12.339 --> 00:08:15.379 have been how some people survived in these areas. 186 00:08:16.889 --> 00:08:19.850 Human beings have an amazing ability to survive. 187 00:08:20.009 --> 00:08:23.740 Yeah. I mean– Which is Silo. I mean it's really– 188 00:08:23.970 --> 00:08:25.990 Silo is a modern version of Darren Cooley. 189 00:08:26.029 --> 00:08:29.920 Yeah, yeah. And here I was in the middle of 190 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:33.740 lockdown when I received those scripts. And I was like, oh, 191 00:08:33.899 --> 00:08:37.620 this is actually talking about right now. Yeah. This is 192 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:42.919 about a controlled society where information is censored and where 193 00:08:44.490 --> 00:08:47.789 compliance is necessary. And if you don't comply, you get 194 00:08:47.870 --> 00:08:52.269 sent out into the hostile environment. It was all too 195 00:08:52.610 --> 00:08:54.529 familiar metaphorically for me. 196 00:08:54.909 --> 00:08:55.610 Perfect timing. 197 00:08:55.649 --> 00:08:56.610 Yeah, perfect timing. 198 00:08:56.649 --> 00:08:58.149 Because you got to think that he must have written 199 00:08:58.190 --> 00:08:59.409 that before, right? 200 00:08:59.509 --> 00:09:00.529 Yeah, many years ago. 201 00:09:00.889 --> 00:09:02.610 So it was just– Got lucky. 202 00:09:02.629 --> 00:09:04.350 Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Here we go. 203 00:09:04.370 --> 00:09:05.049 Synchronicity. 204 00:09:05.210 --> 00:09:05.450 Yeah. 205 00:09:05.649 --> 00:09:06.190 Yeah. 206 00:09:06.250 --> 00:09:08.350 I've been blessed that way in my career. Yeah. 207 00:09:08.370 --> 00:09:10.230 What do you think that's about? Do you ever wonder 208 00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:14.559 why you're so lucky? Obviously, you're very talented. Thank you. 209 00:09:14.580 --> 00:09:16.860 But it's also– there's a lot of talented people that 210 00:09:16.899 --> 00:09:18.500 don't– nothing ever happens for them. 211 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:21.019 I think it comes down to the ability to say 212 00:09:21.100 --> 00:09:28.009 no at crucial times when I was facing down either– 213 00:09:29.389 --> 00:09:33.210 I remember when I first had my first child and 214 00:09:33.370 --> 00:09:37.500 I was broke and I got offered this comedy that 215 00:09:37.509 --> 00:09:40.740 was dumb and it was a million bucks and I 216 00:09:40.789 --> 00:09:44.340 needed the money. And I also had an opportunity if 217 00:09:44.419 --> 00:09:48.720 I waited. Robert Altman was trying to put together The Player. 218 00:09:50.179 --> 00:09:53.919 So I threw caution to the wind and said, no, 219 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:55.600 I can't do that stupid comedy. 220 00:09:55.860 --> 00:09:56.820 What was the stupid comedy? 221 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:04.360 Do you remember? Yeah, it was called Folk. I remember 222 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:07.440 flying out to L.A. to meet on it. And I'm 223 00:10:07.580 --> 00:10:11.509 with Alan Arkin. And he was the guy that was 224 00:10:11.529 --> 00:10:13.809 going to play my father in this thing. And he said, 225 00:10:14.470 --> 00:10:17.340 what the fuck are you doing this script for? I said, 226 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:19.360 I need the money. He says, I don't know. I'm 227 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:26.500 not sure I want to do this thing. I was like, 228 00:10:26.580 --> 00:10:29.929 thank you, Alan Arkin, for confirming what I was thinking. 229 00:10:30.009 --> 00:10:30.450 Wow. 230 00:10:30.509 --> 00:10:33.970 Yeah. And so I said no. And then player came 231 00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:37.309 through and shifted my whole career. Yeah. 232 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:41.269 It's a matter of following that voice in your head, 233 00:10:41.350 --> 00:10:43.649 the instinct, the one that's telling you this is the 234 00:10:43.700 --> 00:10:44.399 right way to go. 235 00:10:44.740 --> 00:10:44.919 Yeah. 236 00:10:45.169 --> 00:10:47.279 Even though there's all sorts of influence that want to 237 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:49.200 lead you into the other direction. 238 00:10:49.460 --> 00:10:52.659 There was a period of time about 10, 15 years 239 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:57.659 ago when I got offered in the course of seven months, 240 00:10:57.899 --> 00:11:00.649 I got offered to play the head of the CIA 241 00:11:00.750 --> 00:11:05.870 three times. Did you ever wonder what that's all about? 242 00:11:06.190 --> 00:11:10.360 I couldn't even imagine. I mean, for some reason, that was, 243 00:11:10.379 --> 00:11:13.000 I don't know. I have no idea. And then a 244 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.539 couple of years after that– and again, you're looking down 245 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.120 at your bills and your mortgages and stuff and you 246 00:11:20.139 --> 00:11:22.210 need the money and just have to– I don't want 247 00:11:22.250 --> 00:11:25.830 to do that, right? Then a few years after– a 248 00:11:25.850 --> 00:11:27.590 couple of years after that, I got offered in the 249 00:11:27.649 --> 00:11:30.649 course of a couple of months, one, to play the 250 00:11:30.690 --> 00:11:35.429 head of FIFA. which is a corrupt organization. But in 251 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:37.929 the movie, it was– they were the best people in 252 00:11:37.970 --> 00:11:38.529 the world, right? 253 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:40.330 Propaganda. 254 00:11:40.350 --> 00:11:42.250 Not to mention that the head of FIFA was a 255 00:11:42.289 --> 00:11:45.149 Brazilian and I had– but they were offering a ton 256 00:11:45.169 --> 00:11:47.669 of money and basically it was FIFA producing a movie 257 00:11:47.700 --> 00:11:48.549 about itself. 258 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:49.509 Oh, wow. 259 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.379 And after that, I got an offer to play the 260 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.860 head of the Chilean mine that was– had just had 261 00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:58.340 this huge disaster. And it turns out the mining company 262 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:01.960 was– they were really nice people according to the script. Yeah. 263 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:08.100 It wasn't bad management or anything or, you know, that 264 00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:11.799 made the disaster happen. So I realized that, that the 265 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:15.169 oligarchs are starting to make movie about themselves. It's got 266 00:12:15.269 --> 00:12:19.470 oligarchical cinema. It's like they produce movies that make themselves 267 00:12:19.509 --> 00:12:20.230 look really good. 268 00:12:20.629 --> 00:12:21.620 And you can get away with it. 269 00:12:22.309 --> 00:12:24.649 Oh, hell yeah. Nobody knows. Nobody cares. And they think 270 00:12:24.669 --> 00:12:27.649 they can buy anybody and they almost bought me. But 271 00:12:27.669 --> 00:12:30.259 I just, I have to, at times I just have 272 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:32.840 to look, you know, face it down and say, listen, it, 273 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.539 it's not right in my heart. I can't, I can't 274 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:36.360 do it. Yeah. 275 00:12:36.460 --> 00:12:39.350 Well, that's great. You've got that North star. 276 00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:40.679 It's great that I had the luxury. 277 00:12:40.750 --> 00:12:41.110 Yeah. 278 00:12:41.370 --> 00:12:44.309 You know, oftentimes people don't have that luxury. Right. 279 00:12:44.409 --> 00:12:48.190 And one bad decision can pigeonhole you in a bad 280 00:12:48.230 --> 00:12:50.070 direction and then you'll never get the ones that you 281 00:12:50.090 --> 00:12:54.250 really want. Yeah. These movies about you playing CIA had, 282 00:12:54.289 --> 00:12:55.049 did they ever get made? 283 00:12:55.850 --> 00:12:59.409 Oh yeah. Yeah. There were TV shows and movies. Yeah. 284 00:12:59.509 --> 00:13:00.490 Was any of it any good? 285 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:12.570 I remember when we were doing movies like, you know, 286 00:13:12.649 --> 00:13:15.269 The Day of the Condor, you know, which was like 287 00:13:15.490 --> 00:13:18.809 critical of the CIA. And I think now we have 288 00:13:18.889 --> 00:13:21.669 the rogue CIA agents that are actually good guys. And, 289 00:13:21.730 --> 00:13:25.529 you know, listen, CIA, you know, whatever it does, nobody 290 00:13:25.580 --> 00:13:28.919 really knows the extent of what they do. But they 291 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:34.379 do have a lot of good guys. portrayals in the media. 292 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:37.399 Well, I think there's good people that are in the 293 00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:41.000 CIA as well. And I think that it's necessary. I 294 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:43.940 just think that they obviously have unchecked power and they've 295 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:47.419 done some really fucking shady shit, you know, in the 296 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:49.419 name of this is the right thing to do right now, 297 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:50.879 including selling drugs. 298 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:54.279 Yeah. You know, I remember that Iran Contra. I remember that. 299 00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:57.179 That's one of the, I mean, I remember that because 300 00:13:57.259 --> 00:14:00.259 I was, I guess I was either right out of 301 00:14:00.299 --> 00:14:02.470 high school. It was like in that area. Where the 302 00:14:02.500 --> 00:14:04.789 whole Oliver Stone thing was on television all the time. 303 00:14:05.789 --> 00:14:06.330 Oliver North. 304 00:14:06.490 --> 00:14:09.610 Oliver North, excuse me. Oliver North and Ronald Reagan. And 305 00:14:10.049 --> 00:14:13.990 there was this guy, Jimmy Tingle, hilarious Boston stand-up comedian 306 00:14:14.629 --> 00:14:17.320 who had a great joke about it. Where they're interviewing 307 00:14:17.740 --> 00:14:20.980 Ronald Reagan and they say, Mr. President, did you ever 308 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:25.620 sell arms to people who hate us? And he's like, 309 00:14:25.700 --> 00:14:28.240 I don't remember. He goes, well, in the future, if 310 00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:31.789 you sell arms to people who hate us, Jot it down. 311 00:14:35.529 --> 00:14:36.639 Make a note of it. 312 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:39.259 He goes, put a post-it on your refrigerator. 313 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.360 Today, I sold arms to Iran. 314 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.419 I remember that was in the 80s. I did a 315 00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:48.620 play about it. I wrote a play about it. Really? 316 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:50.590 We performed it with the actors gang, yeah. 317 00:14:51.289 --> 00:14:54.149 There was a meme that was on social media recently 318 00:14:54.509 --> 00:14:58.509 that was– it showed Oliver North during the whole Iran 319 00:14:58.549 --> 00:15:02.450 concert trials. When they got caught selling drugs in Los 320 00:15:02.539 --> 00:15:05.970 Angeles to fund the Contras versus the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. 321 00:15:06.470 --> 00:15:08.970 And then he goes to jail. And then the same 322 00:15:09.009 --> 00:15:11.950 guy you see later on Fox News as like a 323 00:15:11.990 --> 00:15:17.070 war analyst. And it's like this hilarious meme. Like if 324 00:15:17.190 --> 00:15:20.190 you told me in 1980, whatever the fuck it was, 325 00:15:20.250 --> 00:15:23.549 where he got in trouble, that he would eventually be 326 00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:26.830 the guy that they call upon for expert advice. On 327 00:15:26.870 --> 00:15:27.950 what's going on overseas. 328 00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:32.889 Yeah. It's a deep connection that goes back years. All 329 00:15:32.929 --> 00:15:37.200 the people that get it wrong, particularly Iraq war, anyone 330 00:15:37.220 --> 00:15:38.879 that got it wrong got promotions. Yeah. 331 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:40.100 And no one got in trouble. 332 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.840 No one got fired. People in the media as well. 333 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:46.870 They promoted it. They got better jobs. 334 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:50.129 Well, this is kind of the only time in our 335 00:15:50.190 --> 00:15:54.830 lifetimes where there's actual real independent media. where there's independent 336 00:15:54.870 --> 00:15:57.889 journalists that are not connected to any major corporations that 337 00:15:57.929 --> 00:16:00.779 are operating either on Substack or online or on YouTube 338 00:16:00.820 --> 00:16:05.840 or on X. It's fascinating because they're the ones that 339 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:10.000 are exposing all these connections that the media and the 340 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.620 Central Intelligence Agency and all these other government organizations have 341 00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:16.960 had where they've all been working together forever, spinning narratives 342 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.870 on TV. And so like anytime something like the Iraq 343 00:16:19.899 --> 00:16:21.710 war happens where they go, oh, we've got weapons of 344 00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:24.070 mass destruction. We've got to go in there. No weapons 345 00:16:24.090 --> 00:16:26.509 of mass destruction. No one goes away. No one gets 346 00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:28.509 in trouble. And the same people are on TV telling 347 00:16:28.549 --> 00:16:29.809 you about some new thing that you have to pay 348 00:16:29.830 --> 00:16:33.289 attention to. It's like, this is nuts. This episode is 349 00:16:33.330 --> 00:16:35.730 brought to you by Chime. And I know people don't 350 00:16:35.970 --> 00:16:39.450 usually get excited about banking, but Chime is doing something 351 00:16:39.509 --> 00:16:42.289 different and it's worth paying attention to. In a recent survey, 352 00:16:42.370 --> 00:16:45.429 they ranked the number one choice for new checking accounts 353 00:16:45.649 --> 00:16:48.899 in America. That means real people, millions of them, are 354 00:16:48.970 --> 00:16:52.809 choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime 355 00:16:53.129 --> 00:16:58.090 is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands 356 00:16:58.169 --> 00:17:01.769 of fee-free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you 357 00:17:01.789 --> 00:17:05.069 get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back 358 00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:08.650 on a category you actually pick yourself. Your savings rate, 359 00:17:08.849 --> 00:17:12.250 crazy high. It's nine times the national average. They're calling 360 00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:15.630 it the most rewarding way to bank. Go to Chime.com 361 00:17:15.690 --> 00:17:18.589 slash Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime 362 00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:22.549 is a fintech, not a bank, banking services and Chime 363 00:17:22.609 --> 00:17:27.279 card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. 364 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:31.319 Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for more details. 365 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.700 Well, some people get in trouble, people that come out 366 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:39.829 against it. And there's never any apologies. I did. I did. I, 367 00:17:39.930 --> 00:17:41.869 you know, I risked, you know, a lot to do 368 00:17:41.950 --> 00:17:45.920 it and, you know, wound up. being right but no 369 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.240 one ever said hey you were right you know and this. 370 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:50.759 Was during the iraq war yeah um what. 371 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:54.890 Did you say i uh i i was one of 372 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:59.970 maybe five people that were famous that came out against 373 00:18:00.029 --> 00:18:03.650 that wolf um went on you know in various television 374 00:18:03.690 --> 00:18:06.500 shows and made a couple speeches i got my uh, 375 00:18:06.990 --> 00:18:10.009 appearance at the baseball hall of fame for bull Durham 376 00:18:10.430 --> 00:18:13.369 15th anniversary or something like canceled, uh, by the head 377 00:18:13.410 --> 00:18:17.289 of the, the baseball hall of fame. It was real, uh, 378 00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:19.000 you know, you know, it was funny because I was, 379 00:18:19.019 --> 00:18:22.039 I was doing a show at the time and, uh, 380 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.259 I heard about it and I had, I was sort 381 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:28.339 of writing a response, but, it was already printed by 382 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:31.059 the time I had my response. Right. So I got 383 00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:34.650 the next day, I got a bunch of, um, people 384 00:18:34.769 --> 00:18:38.109 contacting me. I hired a crisis PR person for the 385 00:18:38.150 --> 00:18:40.839 first time in my life and, uh, wound up getting 386 00:18:40.940 --> 00:18:44.160 my letter to Dale Petroski, the head of the hall 387 00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:48.359 of fame out there with the, uh, with the press release. 388 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.650 They were basically ambushed trying to, you know, to call 389 00:18:51.690 --> 00:18:55.769 me a traitor and all this stuff. And, um, So 390 00:18:55.829 --> 00:18:59.049 I pushed back and the publicist that I had hired 391 00:18:59.190 --> 00:19:01.029 was very smart. He said, we're going to send this 392 00:19:01.049 --> 00:19:03.490 to all the sports writers. And it was the sports 393 00:19:03.529 --> 00:19:06.440 writers that wrote the articles defending freedom of speech. 394 00:19:06.700 --> 00:19:07.140 Wow. 395 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.160 At the time. So it was– What year was this? 396 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:11.900 Is this right after 9-11? 397 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.640 This was right when we were cooking up the war, 2003. 398 00:19:14.619 --> 00:19:20.890 So– and I remember– and I also wrote a piece 399 00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:24.900 about that called Embedded. that we performed for the first 400 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.839 time three weeks after Bush landed on that aircraft carrier 401 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:32.960 with a mission accomplished thing. So that wound up playing 402 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:36.809 across the country. We toured it and played in New 403 00:19:36.829 --> 00:19:40.329 York Public Theater and played in London. But it was 404 00:19:40.549 --> 00:19:43.549 attacked when we went to New York. They sent someone 405 00:19:44.309 --> 00:19:47.630 from– there wasn't a theater critic while we were still 406 00:19:47.650 --> 00:19:51.019 in previews and published this thing in– I think it 407 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:57.500 was the New Republic. Basically calling me a conspiracy theorist, anti-Semite, 408 00:19:57.539 --> 00:20:00.720 all this stuff to try to discredit this play that 409 00:20:00.769 --> 00:20:02.309 was playing at the– How did. 410 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:03.990 They connect anti-Semite? 411 00:20:04.589 --> 00:20:07.170 It doesn't matter. That's what they throw out. There was 412 00:20:07.210 --> 00:20:10.809 nothing anti-Semitic about the play. Of course. It was just– 413 00:20:11.130 --> 00:20:14.130 it's one of the things they used to discredit people. 414 00:20:14.910 --> 00:20:19.079 What did you know about– so what made you compelled 415 00:20:19.339 --> 00:20:20.420 to come out against the war? 416 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.980 I was reading foreign press. I was reading stuff from 417 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:28.319 Europe and what they were writing about the weapons of 418 00:20:28.339 --> 00:20:32.210 mass destruction and that there wasn't any evidence and it 419 00:20:32.250 --> 00:20:36.009 wasn't being covered like it was here. It was more open, 420 00:20:36.029 --> 00:20:40.539 more– transparent, the reporting. And so I was trusting that 421 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:43.119 and trusting sources that I had trusted in the past 422 00:20:44.259 --> 00:20:50.210 and realized that when I did question, the attacks were vociferous. 423 00:20:50.450 --> 00:20:53.349 So that usually is a tell, like in poker. That's 424 00:20:53.430 --> 00:20:55.930 like a– it usually means you're on to something. 425 00:20:55.950 --> 00:20:56.730 You're over the mark. 426 00:20:56.970 --> 00:21:00.670 If they– when I came out against that first war 427 00:21:00.829 --> 00:21:06.819 in Iraq in 91– I remember the elder Bush said, well, 428 00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:10.789 this is a democracy. People have the right to oppose it. 429 00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:13.190 And that was their response. But this one was like 430 00:21:13.230 --> 00:21:17.289 you're a traitor. You're a Saddam supporter, terrorist, sympathizer, all 431 00:21:17.309 --> 00:21:20.950 that stuff. They really attacked. And that told me that 432 00:21:21.329 --> 00:21:22.630 I was probably over the target. 433 00:21:22.849 --> 00:21:28.309 Yeah. That had to be– a very disturbing moment because look, 434 00:21:28.369 --> 00:21:30.549 it turns out you were right. And not only were 435 00:21:30.589 --> 00:21:34.130 you right, but now today in 2026 is universally accepted 436 00:21:34.849 --> 00:21:37.210 that there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was 437 00:21:37.269 --> 00:21:39.509 a terrible war and it was not something that should 438 00:21:39.529 --> 00:21:40.109 have ever happened. 439 00:21:40.329 --> 00:21:40.509 Yeah. 440 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:41.539 Universally. 441 00:21:41.710 --> 00:21:41.890 Yeah. 442 00:21:42.299 --> 00:21:44.819 If you said it today, it's not even remotely controversial. 443 00:21:45.339 --> 00:21:48.039 Yeah. Well, that's the way it works. They finally admit 444 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:51.180 the truth later. You know, I think they're doing that 445 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.180 now with COVID, you know, the Fauci is going to 446 00:21:54.579 --> 00:21:57.240 do his thing tomorrow. I'm very curious to see what 447 00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:58.220 happens with that. 448 00:21:59.180 --> 00:22:02.049 Well, they don't give you a universal pardon for 10 449 00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:05.930 years if you didn't do something. I mean, you don't 450 00:22:05.990 --> 00:22:09.410 campaign for that if there's not some smoke. 451 00:22:09.809 --> 00:22:12.849 Yeah, that was a very scary time. You know, it was, 452 00:22:12.869 --> 00:22:17.609 you know, to come out when people, when the media 453 00:22:17.670 --> 00:22:20.690 is attacking you, it's a very scary thing. But the 454 00:22:20.849 --> 00:22:24.970 great good fortune I had in 2003 So I was 455 00:22:25.009 --> 00:22:26.809 living in New York at the time, right? So I 456 00:22:26.849 --> 00:22:29.430 would have to walk my kids to school. And I 457 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:33.650 remember thinking, oh, my God, what's going to happen? Are 458 00:22:33.670 --> 00:22:35.609 there going to be people yelling at me, et cetera? 459 00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:39.940 And that wasn't the truth. The truth was that people, 460 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.779 if anything, said, you know, way to go. Thanks for 461 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.920 speaking for us. And if they disagreed, they said, you know, 462 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:49.690 you have the right to do it. That's the way 463 00:22:49.990 --> 00:22:51.910 generally people are in this country. 464 00:22:52.170 --> 00:22:53.009 And should be. 465 00:22:53.210 --> 00:22:56.269 And I usually would take– every year I would take 466 00:22:56.329 --> 00:23:00.630 my kids to the Final Four. And that year it 467 00:23:00.690 --> 00:23:03.529 was in San Antonio. And I remember thinking, oh, my God, 468 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:05.609 I'm going down to Texas and they're going to yell 469 00:23:05.650 --> 00:23:07.839 at me down there. And no one said a damn thing. 470 00:23:08.410 --> 00:23:10.779 So the reality on the ground was a lot different 471 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:12.960 than the reality they were creating. The reality they were 472 00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:15.559 creating was to intimidate other people into silence. 473 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:15.900 Right. 474 00:23:16.339 --> 00:23:19.019 It wasn't a based on any kind of real reality 475 00:23:19.099 --> 00:23:22.650 of people being angry at me. It was more, uh, 476 00:23:22.990 --> 00:23:26.750 them trying to intimidate others. And so that same thing 477 00:23:26.789 --> 00:23:31.430 kind of happened. I recognize that same smell, uh, when 478 00:23:31.490 --> 00:23:35.259 COVID was happening, when people came out, uh, and started 479 00:23:35.299 --> 00:23:41.339 asking questions and were deplatformed or, um, marginalized or canceled. And, uh, 480 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.720 You know, I followed what you were going through with 481 00:23:45.859 --> 00:23:51.079 the ivermectin, which was a drug that I had taken. And, 482 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:53.029 you know, I had lost my sense of smell and 483 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:56.029 a day later it was back. So I knew there 484 00:23:56.069 --> 00:23:58.990 was something going on with that. And, you know, in 485 00:23:59.029 --> 00:24:03.890 an emergency, why not find whatever you can treat until 486 00:24:03.930 --> 00:24:06.390 your magic potion arrives, you know? 487 00:24:06.410 --> 00:24:09.470 It wasn't just that. It was like the completely disingenuous 488 00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:13.619 characterization of it as a veterinary drug. and calling it 489 00:24:13.779 --> 00:24:19.140 horse paste or horse dewormer, which is crazy. It's crazy 490 00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:22.799 because maybe that would have worked in 1980 when people 491 00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:24.900 would have to go to the encyclopedia to find out 492 00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:28.119 what ivermectin really was. But when you're trying to do 493 00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.069 that in 2020, it's just too easy to look up, oh, look, 494 00:24:31.589 --> 00:24:35.150 it got a Nobel Prize for use in human beings. Oh, 495 00:24:35.190 --> 00:24:38.630 it's great for yellow fever and dengue fever and river blindness. And, oh, 496 00:24:38.670 --> 00:24:41.150 this has been used billions of times. Oh, it's one 497 00:24:41.170 --> 00:24:43.599 of the– Wait a minute. It's in the World Health 498 00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:45.660 Organization's essential medicines list? 499 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:46.059 Yeah. 500 00:24:46.099 --> 00:24:49.089 This is crazy. But yet on television, it's horse dewormer. 501 00:24:49.549 --> 00:24:52.069 And even the Rolling Stone had an article where they 502 00:24:52.109 --> 00:24:55.009 showed people waiting in line. They said that people in 503 00:24:55.150 --> 00:24:58.430 Oklahoma were waiting in line at the emergency room with 504 00:24:58.509 --> 00:25:00.670 gunshot wounds because they couldn't get in there because so 505 00:25:00.690 --> 00:25:05.380 many people were overdosing from ivermectin, which is just fake. 506 00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:09.240 And it's in the Rolling Stone. You're like, What is 507 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:12.220 going on? This is insane. Even the photograph was fake. 508 00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:15.660 The photograph showed people wearing winter coats because really the 509 00:25:15.740 --> 00:25:18.369 line was people waiting for a flu shot. That was 510 00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:21.170 the actual line. And they were trying to say that 511 00:25:21.190 --> 00:25:23.289 these are people waiting in line to go to the 512 00:25:23.329 --> 00:25:25.309 emergency room for a gunshot. It was like, first of all, 513 00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:27.990 how many fucking people are getting shot in Oklahoma? What's 514 00:25:28.009 --> 00:25:28.710 going on over there? 515 00:25:28.769 --> 00:25:30.150 Are you going to have. 516 00:25:30.029 --> 00:25:30.869 Gunfights on the streets? 517 00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:35.250 There was some wild stuff going on at the time. Disinformation. 518 00:25:35.269 --> 00:25:42.559 Yeah. And just– Orchestrated propaganda. Orchestrated, organized with big money 519 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:43.079 behind it. 520 00:25:43.619 --> 00:25:44.000 Wild. 521 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.160 Wild to watch. 522 00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.869 I suspect that that whole period of time was another 523 00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:56.730 way to divide us in the larger picture. Orchestrated chaos 524 00:25:57.289 --> 00:26:03.250 masquerading as a revolution. There's been so many of those 525 00:26:03.309 --> 00:26:07.930 things over the past five years. Mm-hmm. you know, alliances 526 00:26:07.990 --> 00:26:09.809 that you're building and then all of a sudden there's 527 00:26:09.849 --> 00:26:12.250 a new crisis and now you don't like those people 528 00:26:12.289 --> 00:26:15.230 that you were building alliances with. And it's just one 529 00:26:15.289 --> 00:26:17.950 after the other. And ultimately, at the end of the day, 530 00:26:18.009 --> 00:26:21.250 I think it's all about division. It's all about dividing 531 00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:24.849 us and making us argue with each other, not finding 532 00:26:24.890 --> 00:26:30.740 common ground. And that's ultimately the strategy that's been used 533 00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:34.759 from time immemorial, you know, for the power to stay 534 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:39.329 in power. How do you get people fighting with each other? Right. Yeah. 535 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:41.509 People don't like to hear that, but that's, that's a 536 00:26:41.529 --> 00:26:44.130 strategy that's been used all throughout history and it's a 537 00:26:44.170 --> 00:26:46.829 good one and it works. Yeah, it works. And especially 538 00:26:46.869 --> 00:26:49.730 in today's day and age when you have social media 539 00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:53.069 and then you have not just our government, but many 540 00:26:53.109 --> 00:26:56.329 governments that have fake accounts and these people just get 541 00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:59.210 outraged about things or attack things or, you know, have 542 00:26:59.250 --> 00:27:01.799 a narrative that they push. And you don't know if 543 00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:03.799 it's real people. You don't know what it is. It's 544 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:05.539 just a bunch of accounts. You go to the accounts, 545 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:08.079 a guy's face. It's a woman wearing a dress, holding 546 00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:11.400 a book. She seems normal. Meanwhile, it's a man somewhere 547 00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:13.839 with a bank of computers that are all connected to 548 00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:16.559 the internet that's typing in these different responses with a 549 00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:20.319 bunch of different– or now it's AI automated. You tell 550 00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:24.119 this bot to be a right-wing nationalist that's like attacking 551 00:27:24.289 --> 00:27:25.170 anything that's. 552 00:27:25.630 --> 00:27:28.430 Yeah, it's crazy. It's on both sides and it's nuts. 553 00:27:28.569 --> 00:27:33.799 I was over in London– doing a project, and I 554 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.440 noticed this was during their lockdown, and I noticed by 555 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:40.660 my hotel there was this protest, and I went down 556 00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:42.559 to check it out, put my mask on. I was 557 00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:47.619 very compliant at the start of all this. And I 558 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:52.559 noticed what they were portraying as national front right-wingers was 559 00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:56.880 actually hippies and homeopaths and free speech activists, and I 560 00:27:56.940 --> 00:28:01.230 talked to them. And I tweeted, hey, I don't think 561 00:28:01.269 --> 00:28:09.599 it's a right-left thing here. And hundreds of attacks, whether 562 00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:14.720 they're bots or an organized army of righteousness, I have 563 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.519 no idea. But at that point, I was like, fuck it. 564 00:28:18.619 --> 00:28:21.259 I'm not going to put my foot in this water. 565 00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:25.460 These people are nuts. This is a crazy, crazy time. 566 00:28:25.750 --> 00:28:28.589 Yeah, it was crazy not just from the propaganda perspective 567 00:28:28.650 --> 00:28:30.710 but from actual people that I knew that were really 568 00:28:30.750 --> 00:28:33.640 terrified that got caught up in it all. And it 569 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:38.200 was mass formation psychosis is what some people called it. 570 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.059 I think that's a good description. Robert Malone I think 571 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:44.720 termed that or got that from somebody else. But that's 572 00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:46.559 really what it was. Like everybody just kind of went 573 00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:48.940 nutty and there was people that were doing the government's 574 00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:52.369 job for the government or the pharmaceutical drug company's job 575 00:28:52.410 --> 00:28:55.920 for them. They were the ones that were enforcing all 576 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:58.720 these things. And they were doing it because they wanted 577 00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:01.160 to be– they wanted a solution. They wanted to be correct. 578 00:29:01.329 --> 00:29:04.849 And unfortunately, there's a lot of people in this world 579 00:29:04.970 --> 00:29:08.690 that don't experience much real adversity. And when real adversity 580 00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:11.710 comes to them, they fall apart and they don't know 581 00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:15.029 what to do and they get scared and they lump 582 00:29:15.109 --> 00:29:18.069 up together in teams and then they reinforce each other 583 00:29:18.150 --> 00:29:21.950 and repeat the same things and And they all want 584 00:29:22.029 --> 00:29:24.069 to be a part of the right side of history 585 00:29:24.109 --> 00:29:25.549 or the right side of whatever it is. 586 00:29:25.750 --> 00:29:28.450 And also they're being led to believe that that's the 587 00:29:28.490 --> 00:29:31.430 virtuous thing to do. Right. And so it's not like 588 00:29:31.470 --> 00:29:33.950 they're– their intentions are good. 589 00:29:34.210 --> 00:29:34.410 Right. 590 00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:38.829 And because of that, you know, I've had a similar 591 00:29:38.849 --> 00:29:41.809 experience where, you know, friends of mine and people I 592 00:29:41.869 --> 00:29:44.630 love that, you know, fell into that as I did. 593 00:29:44.779 --> 00:29:46.819 I fell into it for a while, you know, that 594 00:29:46.900 --> 00:29:53.220 kind of fear-based kind of behavior. And I just, I've 595 00:29:53.299 --> 00:29:57.650 come to understand that. in my later years that one 596 00:29:57.690 --> 00:30:00.829 of the things that's truly liberating is the ability to say, 597 00:30:00.890 --> 00:30:04.430 I don't know. Yeah. And I may have been wrong. 598 00:30:05.690 --> 00:30:08.730 These are two things that have led to such great 599 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:14.700 discovery for me. Um, it's, it's, I really don't trust anymore. 600 00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:19.180 I don't trust virtuous experts. I don't, I don't think, uh, 601 00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:24.539 I don't think experts are, are, are, I don't believe 602 00:30:24.579 --> 00:30:27.940 in experts. I think if you consider yourself an expert, 603 00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:33.119 you're done learning. You're done speaking with others. You're done 604 00:30:33.259 --> 00:30:38.779 challenging yourself. And when we put our faith and trust 605 00:30:38.859 --> 00:30:44.589 in people that are deemed experts, ultimately, throughout my experience, 606 00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:48.809 it's led to bad things. The experts that talked about 607 00:30:48.849 --> 00:30:53.730 weapons of mass destruction, the experts that Talk about various 608 00:30:53.769 --> 00:30:58.539 things that have led us to violent altercations throughout the world. 609 00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:02.420 I don't trust them anymore. I trust the idea that 610 00:31:02.539 --> 00:31:05.619 there are many sides to a story and that there 611 00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:10.460 is very– there's a lot to be gained from having 612 00:31:10.779 --> 00:31:12.460 dialogue with people you disagree with. 613 00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:17.190 Absolutely. I mean there are experts in some fields and 614 00:31:17.369 --> 00:31:20.279 we do need them. It is important. Like if you 615 00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:23.420 want information about the Large Hadron Collider, you don't understand 616 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:26.039 like what are you guys doing over there? Like you 617 00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:28.099 need to talk to someone who actually understands it who's 618 00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:31.809 an expert on particle colliders. It takes a long time 619 00:31:32.009 --> 00:31:34.910 to develop that sort of knowledge base and have an 620 00:31:34.950 --> 00:31:37.750 understanding of what they're actually trying to accomplish. What is 621 00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:40.609 the Higgs boson? What is this particle that is a 622 00:31:40.650 --> 00:31:43.329 part of that? What? It's the earliest stages of the universe. 623 00:31:43.670 --> 00:31:43.970 OK. OK. 624 00:31:45.009 --> 00:31:45.849 You're going to measure it? 625 00:31:46.009 --> 00:31:46.630 I'll be in the bar. 626 00:31:46.670 --> 00:31:48.849 It exists for a quarter of a second or something 627 00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:51.410 like that? What? What are you guys doing? Yeah. But 628 00:31:52.009 --> 00:31:54.450 the problem is, like, to bring it back to COVID, 629 00:31:54.470 --> 00:31:56.650 one of the things that Fauci said that was so wild, 630 00:31:57.309 --> 00:32:02.680 he said, when you are criticizing Anthony Fauci, you're criticizing science. Yeah. Well, 631 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:06.839 that is– just the fact that he felt so confident 632 00:32:06.859 --> 00:32:09.519 that he could say that, that is such a crazy 633 00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:12.819 thing to say. And then science became like an object. 634 00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:13.740 It became a religion. 635 00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:17.859 Well, science is supposed to be data. It's supposed to 636 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.960 be measuring data and it's supposed to never be settled. 637 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.420 And it's always supposed to have a bunch of people 638 00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:29.710 from various positions of viewing down on this thing, analyzing 639 00:32:29.809 --> 00:32:33.809 it with new studies, new data, new tests, new hypothesis, 640 00:32:34.089 --> 00:32:36.390 working out and communicating with each other. It's not supposed 641 00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:39.289 to be a brick. Like this is a brick. If 642 00:32:39.309 --> 00:32:41.170 you question the brick, like no, no, no. This is 643 00:32:41.210 --> 00:32:44.869 a fucking fluid thing that exists only if you allow 644 00:32:44.930 --> 00:32:49.589 people to ask questions. The moment you stop questioning data, 645 00:32:50.069 --> 00:32:54.490 then like– and even real experts, like guys from MIT 646 00:32:54.529 --> 00:32:57.109 and Harvard were getting deplatformed off of Twitter because they 647 00:32:57.150 --> 00:32:59.359 didn't believe it. They were saying, look, I don't think 648 00:32:59.390 --> 00:33:01.359 this lockdown idea is a good idea. I think it's 649 00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:05.099 bad for children. I think Children aren't even really susceptible 650 00:33:05.140 --> 00:33:07.400 to this disease. Like why are we doing this? Like 651 00:33:07.420 --> 00:33:07.960 what's going on? 652 00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:11.269 It became a faith. It became dogma. And if you 653 00:33:11.329 --> 00:33:14.130 question the dogma, you were a heretic. You were kicked 654 00:33:14.190 --> 00:33:18.789 out of the religion. It was a scary time and 655 00:33:18.890 --> 00:33:22.009 still is scary. You know, we deal– the Actors Gang, 656 00:33:22.329 --> 00:33:26.210 my nonprofit in Los Angeles, we have education programs. And 657 00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:31.130 we've been dealing with the ramifications of that lockdown for 658 00:33:31.150 --> 00:33:33.710 the last five years, you know. this kids that are, 659 00:33:34.269 --> 00:33:38.710 you know, had two years robbed of them from socialization 660 00:33:38.769 --> 00:33:39.450 and education. 661 00:33:40.369 --> 00:33:41.990 And that was your senior year of high school. 662 00:33:42.009 --> 00:33:44.859 Oh my God. You know, fuck. And we're, we're dealing 663 00:33:44.890 --> 00:33:50.859 with the, the, the, the after effects of that. And, uh, gratefully, uh, 664 00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:53.940 the kind of work we do brings them out again and, 665 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:57.779 you know, get some expressing emotions, making eye contact, uh, 666 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.950 having experiences with other children and that are productive and, 667 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:06.779 The good news is you can get out of that funk, 668 00:34:06.859 --> 00:34:10.239 but that was– it was really scary to see those 669 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:15.530 kids walk in to classes after that lockdown because they 670 00:34:15.570 --> 00:34:17.949 wouldn't make eye contact looking at the floor. It was 671 00:34:18.829 --> 00:34:24.309 kind of de-socialized and traumatized and it was really scary. 672 00:34:24.530 --> 00:34:28.179 Critical development time for them. Absolutely. Yeah, and all of 673 00:34:28.219 --> 00:34:31.099 a sudden they're wearing– imagine being a toddler and all 674 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:32.329 of a sudden everyone has a mask on. 675 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:33.619 It's weird. 676 00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:36.139 You don't want to wear the mask. They keep trying 677 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:37.719 to take it off. People yell at them, put it 678 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:42.000 back on. So it's like terror and anxiety and confusion. Also, 679 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.610 you're not reading people's faces, which is like an important 680 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:47.429 part of the developmental process. You get to know people. 681 00:34:47.489 --> 00:34:50.730 You read faces. You see how people talk. Also, everyone's 682 00:34:50.750 --> 00:34:53.590 wearing a mask. Everyone's robbing a bank like this is crazy. 683 00:34:54.110 --> 00:34:58.909 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know. I've tried to approach 684 00:34:58.949 --> 00:35:03.969 it all with just openness and compassion for people that 685 00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:09.650 went through that. I don't attach blame. I don't– everyone– 686 00:35:09.670 --> 00:35:13.739 there was a pretty sophisticated propaganda machine that was happening 687 00:35:13.820 --> 00:35:20.699 and I have great compassion for people that fell into that. 688 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:23.440 I just want us to not do it again. I 689 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:28.760 want us to have the knowledge and the– the consciousness 690 00:35:28.820 --> 00:35:32.099 to not fall for that again. Yeah. 691 00:35:32.139 --> 00:35:35.980 Hopefully it's just, it was very eyeopening that it was 692 00:35:36.019 --> 00:35:39.000 so easy to pull off, you know, that it was 693 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.699 so easy to get people to just gang up like that. 694 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:47.079 It was just, it said it, it was, it said 695 00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:47.739 a lot about us. 696 00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:48.420 Yeah. 697 00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:54.739 Unfortunately. And, um, you know, uh, I, I, I hold 698 00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:59.460 faith in humanity but that was a tough one. 699 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:01.340 I do as well and I think it was a 700 00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:03.889 learning moment for a lot of people whether they admit 701 00:36:03.929 --> 00:36:05.969 to it or not, whether they're public about it or 702 00:36:06.050 --> 00:36:07.429 not because I know a lot of people that just 703 00:36:07.489 --> 00:36:10.650 weren't public about their dissent but they really didn't like 704 00:36:10.730 --> 00:36:13.449 any of it and they just didn't really have a 705 00:36:13.489 --> 00:36:15.750 position to talk about it and they wanted to keep 706 00:36:15.789 --> 00:36:18.090 their job and wanted to keep their– place in the 707 00:36:18.130 --> 00:36:19.989 community or whatever it was that they were trying to 708 00:36:20.010 --> 00:36:22.210 protect and they kept their mouth shut but you'd get 709 00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:23.909 a couple of drinks in them when they were alone 710 00:36:24.110 --> 00:36:24.750 they would tell you. 711 00:36:24.670 --> 00:36:27.590 Well that begs the larger question is you know is 712 00:36:27.699 --> 00:36:32.599 it freedom of speech if when you freely speak your 713 00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.980 job is threatened right your future is threatened is that 714 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.909 are we living in a free society you know right 715 00:36:40.409 --> 00:36:45.769 um And that's still– that's not just COVID. That's a 716 00:36:45.809 --> 00:36:46.389 lot of things. 717 00:36:46.750 --> 00:36:50.809 It's a lot of things. It's almost everything. And it's 718 00:36:50.969 --> 00:36:53.750 one of the most important things that we do is 719 00:36:53.869 --> 00:36:57.389 we disagree. We talk. You have conversations. 720 00:36:57.510 --> 00:36:58.409 It's the only way to learn. 721 00:36:58.659 --> 00:37:01.219 And you get exposed to information that maybe you didn't 722 00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:04.139 know before you establish this opinion that you're arguing. 723 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.159 Do you know what was the big problem? tragedy, in 724 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:12.579 my opinion, during that time period is that we totally 725 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:18.199 lost the water cooler conversation, that accidental conversation that happens 726 00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:22.230 at work with a co-worker who you don't necessarily agree with, 727 00:37:22.610 --> 00:37:28.190 but it's a human being expressing something to you in person. 728 00:37:28.730 --> 00:37:31.909 And you have to deal with that person and their 729 00:37:32.269 --> 00:37:38.150 opposing viewpoint. We got into our own... silos of thought 730 00:37:39.050 --> 00:37:43.570 and algorithms of thought. And everything we experienced during that 731 00:37:43.670 --> 00:37:47.090 period of time was an affirmation of what we believed 732 00:37:47.809 --> 00:37:51.230 rather than a challenge to it. And so the water 733 00:37:51.269 --> 00:37:56.380 cooler was completely eliminated. The idea that the accidental conversation 734 00:37:56.440 --> 00:38:00.280 at a bar, um, where you're, you know, watching a 735 00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:04.360 game on the television and someone sits next to you 736 00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:08.510 that It's not necessarily of your belief system. But you 737 00:38:08.710 --> 00:38:10.590 buy him a beer and you watch the game together. 738 00:38:11.829 --> 00:38:18.369 All these moments of meeting up that were eliminated. And, 739 00:38:18.909 --> 00:38:21.489 you know, that's what I love about sports. I love 740 00:38:21.530 --> 00:38:24.579 that you can go watch a game and not think 741 00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:27.639 about politics or not think about your differences and think 742 00:38:27.699 --> 00:38:31.900 about the team that you like and support them together. 743 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:40.380 Same thing with theater or any kind of gathering of individuals, music. 744 00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:43.800 What I love about the theater that we do is 745 00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:46.480 that we're able to take people to a common emotion. 746 00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:53.989 And we never want to have a completely... We don't 747 00:38:54.030 --> 00:38:58.469 want audiences that think the same, right? You want a 748 00:38:58.530 --> 00:39:03.219 disparate amount of people, different beliefs... That you can get 749 00:39:03.260 --> 00:39:05.539 them to share a common emotion, get them to laugh together, 750 00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:10.199 get them to feel something and cry together. That's the 751 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.349 community you're able to build when you're doing a show, 752 00:39:13.510 --> 00:39:18.389 as you know. What really pissed me off was that 753 00:39:18.789 --> 00:39:22.710 when we have a theater in Los Angeles, two years 754 00:39:22.750 --> 00:39:25.789 we had to be closed. And a year and a 755 00:39:25.849 --> 00:39:29.469 half in, we were told we could open, but we'd 756 00:39:29.510 --> 00:39:32.880 have to change. vaccine passports at the door and I 757 00:39:33.860 --> 00:39:35.679 talked to some people at the theater and we agreed 758 00:39:35.739 --> 00:39:38.889 it was no we can't do that because what that 759 00:39:38.969 --> 00:39:42.329 is doing is it's basically saying the only people allowed 760 00:39:42.489 --> 00:39:45.130 in our theater are people that agree with what the 761 00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:48.949 government wanted And that for me is not a theater 762 00:39:48.989 --> 00:39:52.730 that betrays the whole purpose and function of what a 763 00:39:52.769 --> 00:39:56.179 theater should be. It's a gathering place for the community 764 00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:59.820 that might think differently to bring them together. And this 765 00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:02.659 was saying basically, if you agree, you can come in. 766 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.619 And that, so we waited another six months before we 767 00:40:06.699 --> 00:40:12.309 opened the theater until everyone could come in. Yeah. 768 00:40:12.510 --> 00:40:15.260 Um, There was a time where you had to have 769 00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:21.309 a vaccine passport in order to perform. And there was 770 00:40:21.349 --> 00:40:23.989 an exemption in New York. And you had to have 771 00:40:24.030 --> 00:40:27.190 a vaccine passport if you wanted to go to a show. 772 00:40:27.610 --> 00:40:29.869 But you didn't have to have one if you were performing. 773 00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:33.489 And I did Madison Square Garden. So the whole audience 774 00:40:33.710 --> 00:40:37.889 had to have vaccine passports. But I didn't. And so 775 00:40:38.210 --> 00:40:40.500 there was a senator. I forget who it was. that 776 00:40:40.780 --> 00:40:46.059 was proposing a new law based on me sneaking through 777 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.360 the loophole that performers should have to be vaccinated as well. 778 00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:53.340 And he was upset that I didn't have– that I 779 00:40:53.389 --> 00:40:55.329 wasn't vaccinated and that I was performing. 780 00:40:55.349 --> 00:40:58.210 You could have infected the entire Madison Square Garden. 781 00:40:58.230 --> 00:41:00.369 I could have been a super spreader, yeah. 782 00:41:00.809 --> 00:41:03.329 Well, you know, in London– because they spent a lot 783 00:41:03.349 --> 00:41:05.769 of time over there the last five years. But their 784 00:41:06.210 --> 00:41:12.050 West End rebounded immediately. unlike Broadway. And the reason it 785 00:41:12.110 --> 00:41:15.489 did is because during that time period, you could show 786 00:41:15.550 --> 00:41:17.989 a vaccine passport, but you could also show a negative test. 787 00:41:18.050 --> 00:41:22.409 So they didn't demand that you have a vaccine. So 788 00:41:22.690 --> 00:41:25.989 they didn't lose their audience. Their audience came right back. 789 00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:29.760 And in Broadway, they basically told a third of their audience, 790 00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:33.719 you're not welcome. And so I can see why it 791 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.409 might have been a struggle to get those people back 792 00:41:36.449 --> 00:41:37.110 into the theater. 793 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.340 It was great. It didn't make any sense. Like if 794 00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:41.119 the people are negative, they're negative. What do you give 795 00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.800 a shit if they're vaccinated? Also, what about people that 796 00:41:43.820 --> 00:41:47.050 got COVID and then recovered from it who have far 797 00:41:47.090 --> 00:41:52.349 superior immunity, seven X superior immunity to people who are vaccinated? Like, 798 00:41:52.550 --> 00:41:54.130 what do you, what are we doing here? Like this 799 00:41:54.190 --> 00:41:57.369 is you, are you, you're doing the pharmaceutical drug companies 800 00:41:57.429 --> 00:42:02.320 work for them and you're making people follow along. In 801 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.079 lockstep and it's just nuts. It just didn't even make 802 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:06.880 sense that people were going along with this. 803 00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:12.460 Yeah. Well, I'm glad that's in the rearview mirror. 804 00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:16.030 Yeah, for now. But I feel like it's a case 805 00:42:16.050 --> 00:42:18.969 study in a lot of– if there are people that 806 00:42:18.989 --> 00:42:22.150 are manipulating society and I think there are, there's a 807 00:42:22.150 --> 00:42:24.750 lot of lessons that they learn from how we behave 808 00:42:25.449 --> 00:42:29.989 in society. And relatively speaking, without making light of the pandemic, 809 00:42:30.210 --> 00:42:33.769 relatively speaking, a fairly mild pandemic in terms of like 810 00:42:34.210 --> 00:42:36.179 the bubonic plague and all sorts of other things that 811 00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:39.099 have happened throughout history, the Spanish flu have killed way 812 00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.980 more people. Like it could have been way worse, right? 813 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:46.559 So just one that was just twice as bad as 814 00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:50.250 the flu got people to behave like that. Yeah. Yeah. 815 00:42:51.110 --> 00:42:57.190 Well, the good news is though the uptake wasn't– you know, 816 00:42:57.710 --> 00:42:59.469 a lot of people took it because they had to. 817 00:42:59.489 --> 00:43:04.909 It wasn't like enthusiastically taking it. We did a play 818 00:43:04.929 --> 00:43:08.639 called Topsy Turvy, which was about lockdown. And we performed 819 00:43:08.659 --> 00:43:12.079 that in Eastern Europe. And it was really interesting to 820 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:16.099 see their response there because I would, one of them 821 00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:19.199 said afterwards, you know, I asked, you know, what was 822 00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:23.059 the uptake on the vaccines in, in Romania? And they 823 00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:25.679 said something like 40%. I said, well, how do you 824 00:43:25.699 --> 00:43:29.019 explain that? And they said, well, you know, we lived 825 00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:32.019 under the Soviet Union for many years, so we know 826 00:43:32.219 --> 00:43:34.900 how to look like we comply when we're not complying. 827 00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:39.300 And I said, what else reminds you of the Soviet Union? 828 00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:42.559 They said, without a doubt, cancel culture. I said, why? 829 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:46.159 I said, well, Soviet Union used to keep files on 830 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:47.920 all of us, right? So as long as you're a 831 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:51.429 good party member, there wouldn't be a thing said. But 832 00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:54.570 once you stepped out of line, They brought out that 833 00:43:54.630 --> 00:43:57.250 old file. Now that affair with your secretary from 30 834 00:43:57.250 --> 00:43:59.349 years ago is going to ruin your life. They're going 835 00:43:59.369 --> 00:44:02.170 to ruin your family. They're going to kill your career. 836 00:44:02.190 --> 00:44:05.300 And they're going to make a big public display of 837 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:10.039 it to show other people to stay in line. And 838 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.940 they felt like cancel culture was basically operating in the 839 00:44:13.980 --> 00:44:16.300 same way as the Soviet Union did. And it was 840 00:44:16.460 --> 00:44:20.719 really interesting to see that perspective in Eastern Europe. People 841 00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:26.590 that have lived under that kind of oppressive situation and 842 00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:28.769 their perspective on modern day. 843 00:44:29.489 --> 00:44:31.429 That must have really made you think about what happened 844 00:44:31.449 --> 00:44:32.670 to you during the Iraq War. 845 00:44:32.869 --> 00:44:33.070 Yeah. 846 00:44:33.369 --> 00:44:33.550 Right? 847 00:44:34.130 --> 00:44:34.989 Yeah. 848 00:44:35.309 --> 00:44:38.690 That in particular because back then there's no real social media. 849 00:44:39.909 --> 00:44:42.179 There's no real way to get your message out. 850 00:44:42.469 --> 00:44:46.360 Oh, man. They lied. They made up things. They made 851 00:44:46.420 --> 00:44:49.500 up this– I was doing this play Embedded at the time. 852 00:44:50.150 --> 00:44:52.250 At the public theater and we'd go out afterwards and 853 00:44:53.349 --> 00:44:55.369 the New York Post wrote that I was making out 854 00:44:55.409 --> 00:44:57.909 with a woman under a palm tree at this club. 855 00:44:58.230 --> 00:45:03.329 And they just made it up and cut me and 856 00:45:03.409 --> 00:45:07.949 didn't really help my marriage at the time. They just lie. 857 00:45:08.369 --> 00:45:10.969 They basically lie. They'll attack you. 858 00:45:11.289 --> 00:45:13.750 They just decided you were an enemy and they were 859 00:45:13.769 --> 00:45:15.349 going to pull out whatever stops they could. 860 00:45:15.369 --> 00:45:19.179 They're going to discredit you in whatever way they can. Yeah, 861 00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:22.320 that's a powerful thing when it hits you and you realize, oh, 862 00:45:22.340 --> 00:45:24.230 my God, the truth doesn't matter here. 863 00:45:24.389 --> 00:45:26.650 Yeah, well, that's what's so scary about it is that 864 00:45:26.829 --> 00:45:29.570 in this country where freedom of speech is supposed to 865 00:45:29.610 --> 00:45:31.869 be one of the cornerstones of our society, it's one 866 00:45:31.889 --> 00:45:34.289 of the most important things we all recognize. It separates 867 00:45:34.389 --> 00:45:37.440 us from everywhere else in history. Like this is the 868 00:45:37.460 --> 00:45:41.619 first country where really it's written into the doctrine of 869 00:45:41.659 --> 00:45:45.039 the country. You're supposed to have the freedom, the ability 870 00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:49.050 to express yourself, and that this is– being attacked and 871 00:45:49.090 --> 00:45:52.130 suppressed in all sorts of different ways, not just stopping 872 00:45:52.170 --> 00:45:55.289 your ability to express yourself but attacking you in a 873 00:45:55.329 --> 00:45:59.349 concerted effort and lying about you, just lying about you 874 00:45:59.429 --> 00:46:02.389 in order to scare other people. It's very Orwellian and 875 00:46:02.449 --> 00:46:05.230 it's very un-American. And the fact that like the New 876 00:46:05.269 --> 00:46:07.230 York Post would do that to you or whoever it 877 00:46:07.269 --> 00:46:09.469 was from the New York Post would do that, like 878 00:46:09.570 --> 00:46:10.590 what the fuck, man? 879 00:46:10.690 --> 00:46:15.820 Well, the good news is there's no gulags. They don't 880 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:18.219 arrest you in the middle of the night and force 881 00:46:18.260 --> 00:46:22.380 you into some kind of prison thousands of miles away. 882 00:46:22.780 --> 00:46:26.260 Sure. It could be worse. Yeah. But it's not along 883 00:46:26.300 --> 00:46:29.590 the line of the American way of life. And if 884 00:46:29.630 --> 00:46:34.190 you are a person who really does appreciate what this 885 00:46:34.289 --> 00:46:41.030 experience and this experiment in self-government, which is the United States. 886 00:46:41.900 --> 00:46:45.420 It's supposed to have free discourse. That's a big part 887 00:46:45.460 --> 00:46:47.940 of it. The founding fathers recognized that. You've got to 888 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:49.500 have the ability to talk about things. 889 00:46:49.780 --> 00:46:50.019 Right. 890 00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:53.400 And if you don't, we're fucked because if someone can 891 00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:56.119 tell you what you can and can't say, that's step one. 892 00:46:56.739 --> 00:46:59.199 And then everything else falls in line after that. The 893 00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:01.110 next thing you know, you've got a dictatorship. 894 00:47:01.130 --> 00:47:07.050 Right. And there's people that have lost opportunities or– In 895 00:47:07.090 --> 00:47:13.230 show business recently, including my ex, Susan Sarandon, who was 896 00:47:13.289 --> 00:47:16.369 against what was happening in Israel and lost her agent 897 00:47:16.469 --> 00:47:21.780 and having a hard time finding work. This is nuts. 898 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:26.380 And especially someone like Susan Sarandon, one of the most 899 00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:32.760 respected and established actors of many generations. She's been around forever. 900 00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:37.309 The fact that a take on something that if you're 901 00:47:37.349 --> 00:47:41.110 just looking at it, like what is– how could you 902 00:47:41.130 --> 00:47:43.650 defend that? Like how could anybody defend that? I don't 903 00:47:43.690 --> 00:47:45.840 even know how many people are dead. You have a 904 00:47:45.889 --> 00:47:49.039 complete wipeout of a city. Like 90 percent of Gaza 905 00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.880 is gone or whatever the percentage is. You look at 906 00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:53.320 the buildings. You look at what it used to look like. 907 00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:55.619 You look at what it looks like now. This is defensible? 908 00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.849 Yeah, yeah. And I think the point of it is 909 00:47:59.949 --> 00:48:02.269 to make a show of it and to say, see, 910 00:48:02.690 --> 00:48:04.030 we could do that to her. So we could do 911 00:48:04.050 --> 00:48:06.210 it to you. So shut the fuck up. Yeah. 912 00:48:06.690 --> 00:48:09.610 Especially the timing of when you do it, right? If 913 00:48:09.659 --> 00:48:14.860 you're against Gaza now, it's safer than being against what 914 00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:18.599 happened a year and a half ago, say. Especially close 915 00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.639 to October 7th. If you're one of the– like Roger Waters, 916 00:48:22.300 --> 00:48:25.860 one of the early people talking about this is– You're 917 00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:30.929 watching genocide in real time and they came for that guy. 918 00:48:30.949 --> 00:48:32.230 Yeah. 919 00:48:32.250 --> 00:48:34.550 And, you know, more people see it the way he 920 00:48:34.610 --> 00:48:37.679 sees it now. And just like what happened to you 921 00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:40.519 with the Iraq war, you're 20 years from now, it's 922 00:48:40.539 --> 00:48:42.639 going to be a universally accepted opinion. I bet. 923 00:48:42.820 --> 00:48:43.880 Yeah. Yeah. 924 00:48:46.389 --> 00:48:50.510 Well, that's just. It's crazy to go through something like 925 00:48:50.550 --> 00:48:52.820 that and for you to have gone through it like 926 00:48:52.900 --> 00:48:55.500 really early on, for you to have gone through that 927 00:48:55.519 --> 00:49:00.000 in 2003. I guess it really does inform your opinions though. 928 00:49:00.260 --> 00:49:02.820 Like when you see things that are happening today, you go, OK, 929 00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:03.659 I've seen this before. 930 00:49:04.929 --> 00:49:09.630 What I started looking for after that was a way 931 00:49:09.730 --> 00:49:15.769 to be someone that was more involved with– something that 932 00:49:15.809 --> 00:49:19.969 could affect change. In other words, I used my nonprofit 933 00:49:20.340 --> 00:49:25.679 We started a prison program 20 years ago. And we 934 00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.340 see the change that happens. We have people that go 935 00:49:30.420 --> 00:49:35.619 in and basically offer rehabilitation in the form of theater. 936 00:49:36.500 --> 00:49:39.360 And not doing plays or anything, but getting people to 937 00:49:40.420 --> 00:49:44.539 play emotions through characters that we introduce to them. And 938 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:49.739 in doing so, unlocking emotions that have been suppressed for many, 939 00:49:49.780 --> 00:49:54.289 many years. So in prison, there's one go-to emotion. It's anger. 940 00:49:54.389 --> 00:49:57.909 That's your survival face. That's your mask on the yard. 941 00:49:57.929 --> 00:50:00.250 You have to be a badass or you're going to die. 942 00:50:01.409 --> 00:50:08.079 But sadness is compromising. Fear is compromising. And happiness is 943 00:50:08.219 --> 00:50:14.010 genuinely not encouraged either. So we get these guys in 944 00:50:14.050 --> 00:50:17.809 a room, we introduce them to these stock characters from 945 00:50:17.829 --> 00:50:20.070 the Commedia dell'arte, and then they have to express their 946 00:50:20.110 --> 00:50:24.329 emotions and make choices with their emotions in improv. And 947 00:50:24.469 --> 00:50:28.030 what they find is that if someone approaches them in 948 00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:32.519 anger in an improv, the facilitator will encourage a different 949 00:50:32.539 --> 00:50:35.800 emotion in response to anger than anger, right? And what 950 00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:39.079 they come to understand is that they don't have to 951 00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:43.420 respond to anger with anger. There are other choices. And 952 00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:46.239 in fact, in real life, they can do that too 953 00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:48.699 if they can do it in an improv. And so 954 00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:52.300 what happens is these people tap into long dormant emotions 955 00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:56.010 and start to understand that they are more than the 956 00:50:56.170 --> 00:51:02.190 worst act that got them there. They tend to create 957 00:51:02.269 --> 00:51:08.139 bonds across gang ties, racial lines. When we're putting together 958 00:51:08.179 --> 00:51:11.309 a group, we ask that rival gangs are in the 959 00:51:11.329 --> 00:51:12.369 same room with each other. 960 00:51:12.769 --> 00:51:13.150 Oh, wow. 961 00:51:13.429 --> 00:51:17.150 And, um, what happens is these bonds are made through 962 00:51:17.190 --> 00:51:20.250 the sharing of emotion. Like we get these guys into 963 00:51:20.269 --> 00:51:22.650 an improv where they're all putting a flower on a 964 00:51:22.690 --> 00:51:26.159 grave of someone and saying something under their breath about 965 00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:29.579 the person that's deceased. And then at some point the 966 00:51:29.619 --> 00:51:32.079 facilitator will say, now look at each other and they're 967 00:51:32.099 --> 00:51:35.820 looking at each other with these eyes of sadness and 968 00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:38.340 they realize they have a lot in common, you know, 969 00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:41.110 in that shared emotion. I had two guys come up 970 00:51:41.150 --> 00:51:44.500 to me, one black guy, one white guy. They said, 971 00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.559 we've got to tell you what happened two weeks ago. 972 00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:49.780 Our shot caller said, you know, we're going to have 973 00:51:50.500 --> 00:51:54.059 a fight on the yard. And so, you know, you 974 00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:56.360 never question the shot caller. And so you know what's 975 00:51:56.389 --> 00:51:58.809 going to happen. And so what they did was they 976 00:51:58.849 --> 00:52:02.469 found each other, these two guys. And they rolled around 977 00:52:02.570 --> 00:52:07.170 on the floor acting like they were killing each other. 978 00:52:09.579 --> 00:52:11.280 Wow. How convenient. 979 00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:16.429 So it looked like they were participating, but they weren't 980 00:52:16.469 --> 00:52:17.170 hurting each other. 981 00:52:17.550 --> 00:52:19.710 Oh, wow. That's a good solution. 982 00:52:21.010 --> 00:52:24.329 It's amazing what happens when you experience something like that 983 00:52:24.590 --> 00:52:27.800 in person, when you see the transformation happen. And we 984 00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:31.440 see this in our school children as well. That's something that. 985 00:52:32.590 --> 00:52:37.179 It's deeply inspiring. You know that you've had something to 986 00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:42.039 do with a real change, right? Whereas for years I 987 00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:51.440 was asked to attend fundraisers and various causes. And it's 988 00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:53.320 great that they're doing that and it's great that they're 989 00:52:53.340 --> 00:52:57.260 raising money for these organizations that need it. But at 990 00:52:57.300 --> 00:52:58.860 the end of the day, you don't really feel like 991 00:52:58.900 --> 00:53:02.349 you did anything other than go to a dinner. And 992 00:53:03.050 --> 00:53:05.190 this was a way to get my hands dirty and 993 00:53:05.269 --> 00:53:09.360 really get in the struggle of it. And I found 994 00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:13.619 it to be so much more satisfying as far as 995 00:53:14.579 --> 00:53:19.059 whatever inclination I had towards activism was really fed by 996 00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:25.489 this as opposed to hopping from fundraiser to fundraiser. It 997 00:53:25.510 --> 00:53:28.349 just felt more real. It felt like something that I 998 00:53:28.409 --> 00:53:31.469 could– Take that experience and then I could say to 999 00:53:31.510 --> 00:53:34.090 my group, let's expand. Let's get into more and more prisons. 1000 00:53:34.190 --> 00:53:37.250 And now we're in 18 prisons in the state of 1001 00:53:37.269 --> 00:53:38.809 California doing these programs. 1002 00:53:38.889 --> 00:53:42.690 Did you have to develop a curriculum like how you 1003 00:53:43.409 --> 00:53:45.690 begin to reach out to these guys and how you 1004 00:53:45.710 --> 00:53:46.230 set it up? 1005 00:53:47.110 --> 00:53:50.309 It took a couple of years, kind of pilot program 1006 00:53:50.329 --> 00:53:55.690 in one prison in Chino and Norco in Southern California. 1007 00:53:57.650 --> 00:54:01.750 Trial and error. You know, what's the way to do it? 1008 00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:03.940 What's the way not to do it? Of course, you 1009 00:54:03.980 --> 00:54:06.260 go through a training with the prison system of certain 1010 00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:11.239 things to watch out for. And, you know, you develop 1011 00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:14.199 these lines where you say, you know, we're here to 1012 00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:16.679 do this, not to talk about your case. You know, 1013 00:54:16.699 --> 00:54:19.719 there's all kinds of things you learn how to avoid 1014 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:25.320 the distractions that will derail the program. But essentially it's 1015 00:54:25.340 --> 00:54:29.909 a very physical way of working and it's also– there 1016 00:54:29.989 --> 00:54:31.909 is a lot of fun in it. So those two 1017 00:54:31.969 --> 00:54:38.599 things together allow the entry for these guys that are– 1018 00:54:38.829 --> 00:54:40.469 they're in the room because they want to be there 1019 00:54:40.570 --> 00:54:44.050 but it's weird stuff we're asking them to do. And 1020 00:54:44.449 --> 00:54:47.440 if they can have a laugh about it and then– 1021 00:54:47.849 --> 00:54:51.449 something about it shifts some kind of consciousness inside them, 1022 00:54:51.489 --> 00:54:55.239 that means something to people. You've got to remember these 1023 00:54:55.300 --> 00:54:58.219 people are, you know, when we started, there was only 1024 00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:03.619 one other program in the state of California that was 1025 00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:08.429 offering rehabilitation through any theater. So there was a couple 1026 00:55:08.469 --> 00:55:13.329 music programs and two theater programs, and now we're able 1027 00:55:13.369 --> 00:55:16.590 to lobby the state to, get more funding for arts 1028 00:55:16.650 --> 00:55:20.869 and corrections because art is a transformer. You know, it 1029 00:55:20.949 --> 00:55:24.849 is something that can shift consciousness. I truly believe that. 1030 00:55:24.869 --> 00:55:28.969 I've seen it with my own, the work that I've done. 1031 00:55:29.030 --> 00:55:32.360 You know, I've seen how people can think in a 1032 00:55:32.389 --> 00:55:35.780 different way after they see something in the theater or 1033 00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:40.159 in the movies or, you know, a good stand-up can 1034 00:55:40.179 --> 00:55:42.769 do the same thing. You know, how George Carlin used 1035 00:55:42.809 --> 00:55:45.550 to shift my consciousness every new special because he would 1036 00:55:45.570 --> 00:55:49.039 always be challenging me. Sure. It wouldn't be like, hey, 1037 00:55:49.050 --> 00:55:52.050 we're all in the same club. It would be, yeah, 1038 00:55:52.690 --> 00:55:55.679 you thought we were in the same club. But here's 1039 00:55:55.719 --> 00:55:59.300 a little thought. And you realize he's talking right at 1040 00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:03.139 one of your hypocrisies. And that was his genius. It 1041 00:56:03.159 --> 00:56:07.429 was his ability to really tap into we can be better. Right. 1042 00:56:07.570 --> 00:56:08.389 We can all be better. 1043 00:56:09.179 --> 00:56:12.840 This episode is brought to you by Visible. It's officially summer, folks, 1044 00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:15.440 and boy, what a summer we are having. It feels 1045 00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:18.019 like one of those good old-fashioned summers where you just 1046 00:56:18.059 --> 00:56:21.179 want to enjoy every moment and keep up with the action. 1047 00:56:21.449 --> 00:56:26.110 Your best companion this summer? Visible Wireless. Visible gives you 1048 00:56:26.349 --> 00:56:31.909 unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for 1049 00:56:31.929 --> 00:56:35.340 just $ 25 a month. So you can make this the 1050 00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:38.320 summer of fun and savings. Visible is more than just 1051 00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:42.449 a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to always keep 1052 00:56:42.469 --> 00:56:45.349 you connected to with no contract to tie you down. 1053 00:56:46.050 --> 00:56:50.670 Switch today at visible.com, plan start at $ 25 a month, 1054 00:56:50.889 --> 00:56:55.380 or get our premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save 1055 00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:59.380 $ 10 on your first month when you use promo code ROGAN. 1056 00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:05.489 Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. Yeah, 1057 00:57:05.510 --> 00:57:07.670 there's been a few guys like that throughout history that 1058 00:57:07.690 --> 00:57:12.849 really figured out a way to embed humor into social commentary. 1059 00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:16.010 George Carlin is probably the most known for it. But 1060 00:57:16.469 --> 00:57:17.690 do you know about Bill Hicks? 1061 00:57:17.969 --> 00:57:18.889 Yeah, for sure. 1062 00:57:18.909 --> 00:57:21.369 So he was probably– in my generation, he was the 1063 00:57:21.409 --> 00:57:24.769 one that twisted people the most. Like a lot of 1064 00:57:24.789 --> 00:57:27.170 comics would watch him and go, what am I doing? 1065 00:57:27.250 --> 00:57:29.429 Why am I doing what I'm doing? This guy is 1066 00:57:29.590 --> 00:57:31.510 doing something that's like so much more meaningful. 1067 00:57:31.829 --> 00:57:36.250 Yeah. Who was it in Apatow's documentary about Carlin? There 1068 00:57:36.289 --> 00:57:42.650 was a comedian that said George Carlin was basically– In 1069 00:57:42.670 --> 00:57:47.980 the early part of the century, in 1900s, philosophers debating 1070 00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:51.039 used to be a huge deal, right? Like hundreds of people, 1071 00:57:51.099 --> 00:57:54.320 thousands of people come watch people debate two different points 1072 00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:59.739 of view. Sure. He said that's what the current philosophers 1073 00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:03.469 of our generation are, the better stand-up comedians, the ones 1074 00:58:03.489 --> 00:58:08.510 that test your belief system by saying something that might 1075 00:58:08.530 --> 00:58:14.090 be controversial or challenges your world view. That's the great 1076 00:58:14.269 --> 00:58:18.849 purpose and function of a philosopher or a stand-up comedian 1077 00:58:18.929 --> 00:58:22.050 is to take your worldview, shatter it a little bit 1078 00:58:22.090 --> 00:58:22.969 and make you rethink. 1079 00:58:23.250 --> 00:58:30.710 Yeah. Yeah. And Hicks was sort of– for our generation, 1080 00:58:30.730 --> 00:58:33.210 he was like the first guy that really did that 1081 00:58:33.250 --> 00:58:35.239 in a way that– like some of the things that 1082 00:58:35.260 --> 00:58:37.500 he said weren't even designed to be funny at all. 1083 00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:39.239 It was just designed to make you think about things 1084 00:58:39.300 --> 00:58:41.300 differently and then he would hit you with some funny 1085 00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:43.800 things after that. To keep you occupied. 1086 00:58:44.500 --> 00:58:44.760 Yeah. 1087 00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:45.420 Yeah. 1088 00:58:46.699 --> 00:58:52.570 Provocative statements that, you know, the first reaction is, fuck that. No, 1089 00:58:52.610 --> 00:58:55.170 that's not true. Fuck that. And then you realize, oh shit, 1090 00:58:55.250 --> 00:58:58.110 he's bringing me there. And it's like a great play 1091 00:58:58.130 --> 00:59:00.150 can do that too. A great movie can do that too. 1092 00:59:00.769 --> 00:59:07.269 Provoke you and challenge you and then make you refocus, rethink. 1093 00:59:08.170 --> 00:59:11.639 Yeah, it's just amazing how... little of that we have 1094 00:59:11.699 --> 00:59:16.179 today and how much content we have today. Did you 1095 00:59:16.219 --> 00:59:20.969 ever see the documentary– God, what is it? The documentary 1096 00:59:20.989 --> 00:59:25.039 with William F. Buckley and the other– Yeah, you know 1097 00:59:25.059 --> 00:59:25.699 what I'm talking about. 1098 00:59:25.949 --> 00:59:26.489 Gore Vidal? 1099 00:59:26.590 --> 00:59:27.489 And Gore Vidal, yeah. 1100 00:59:27.570 --> 00:59:27.739 Yeah. 1101 00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:30.710 Where they had these– it was– I guess it was NBC, 1102 00:59:30.829 --> 00:59:33.909 I think it was. And NBC was failing in the ratings. 1103 00:59:33.929 --> 00:59:36.170 I was going to say Relentless Enemies, but that's the lion. Yeah, 1104 00:59:36.190 --> 00:59:40.230 the lion. Best of Enemies. Best of Enemies, yeah. Great documentary. 1105 00:59:40.329 --> 00:59:40.530 Yeah. 1106 00:59:40.750 --> 00:59:43.949 So they had a series of these debates on television, 1107 00:59:44.550 --> 00:59:48.110 Gore Vidal being a progressive and William F. Buckley being 1108 00:59:48.150 --> 00:59:52.980 a conservative. Very interesting. Interesting. because this kind of hadn't 1109 00:59:53.019 --> 00:59:55.889 happened before on television where you have these long form 1110 00:59:55.929 --> 01:00:00.309 discussions where these two guys just intellectually jabbing at each other. Yeah. 1111 01:00:00.369 --> 01:00:04.530 And it was great. It's like the documentary is really amazing. I, uh, 1112 01:00:04.789 --> 01:00:06.989 I was friends with Gore. Oh really? 1113 01:00:07.010 --> 01:00:10.780 Yeah. Uh, he, uh, I, he, uh, agreed to do 1114 01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:14.639 my first film, Bob Roberts, which is about a right 1115 01:00:14.679 --> 01:00:19.840 wing folk singing candidate for Senate in Pennsylvania. And, um, 1116 01:00:20.849 --> 01:00:24.929 Gore agreed to play Brickley Pace, my Democratic opponent, right? 1117 01:00:25.429 --> 01:00:27.929 And so he played a politician, which is something he 1118 01:00:27.989 --> 01:00:33.179 always kind of flirted with in his real life. And 1119 01:00:33.219 --> 01:00:36.000 so I got to be quite friendly with him. And 1120 01:00:36.260 --> 01:00:40.119 I actually did a documentary that I'm editing right now 1121 01:00:41.699 --> 01:00:48.610 about four soldiers from World War II that became great writers. Gore, 1122 01:00:48.989 --> 01:00:53.099 Kurt Vonnegut. Norman Mailer and Howard Zinn are all in 1123 01:00:53.139 --> 01:00:57.900 this documentary I filmed it many years ago shelved it 1124 01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:00.570 and now I'm in the final stages of putting it 1125 01:01:00.610 --> 01:01:04.650 together I'm opening a new website on September 1st and 1126 01:01:05.210 --> 01:01:06.809 this is one of the many things that I have 1127 01:01:06.849 --> 01:01:09.809 in my vault and my storage units that I've just 1128 01:01:09.849 --> 01:01:12.329 been getting out over the past year and finding all 1129 01:01:12.369 --> 01:01:15.050 this crazy stuff that I have that I've never finished 1130 01:01:15.090 --> 01:01:17.449 because I've been going from project to project to project 1131 01:01:17.489 --> 01:01:20.789 so I slowed down a little bit and just opened 1132 01:01:20.869 --> 01:01:24.409 up some sealed boxes and it's, it's been really fun. 1133 01:01:25.010 --> 01:01:27.829 It's one of the things is also, I used to 1134 01:01:28.090 --> 01:01:31.630 fuck around on film sets with this, you know, when 1135 01:01:31.650 --> 01:01:34.150 I had enough money to buy a video camera for 1136 01:01:34.190 --> 01:01:36.789 the first time. And so I started making these little 1137 01:01:36.849 --> 01:01:41.210 short films on, on movie sets. And one of them 1138 01:01:41.289 --> 01:01:44.250 is there's two films from when I was doing Howard, 1139 01:01:44.269 --> 01:01:50.659 the duck. And, you know, one of those, Endless productions 1140 01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:53.340 just went on and on and on. So I just 1141 01:01:53.380 --> 01:01:58.119 started amusing myself by making my own little short films, including, 1142 01:01:58.300 --> 01:02:01.829 you know, I'm sure illegally using the duck itself, you know, 1143 01:02:02.989 --> 01:02:05.409 which I made a character in one of the films. 1144 01:02:07.250 --> 01:02:08.650 I forgot about Howard the Duck. 1145 01:02:08.690 --> 01:02:11.369 It was crazy. We walked on the set. 1146 01:02:11.389 --> 01:02:13.250 What a fucking weird movie that was. 1147 01:02:13.269 --> 01:02:17.349 I know, right? We walked on the set. I walked 1148 01:02:17.429 --> 01:02:20.250 on the set. The first day I knew we were 1149 01:02:20.289 --> 01:02:20.690 in trouble. 1150 01:02:23.090 --> 01:02:24.050 Why did you know we were in trouble? 1151 01:02:24.070 --> 01:02:28.730 The puppet. It wasn't ready. And it was a little 1152 01:02:28.769 --> 01:02:32.550 too cute. If you look at the comic book, Howard 1153 01:02:32.570 --> 01:02:34.840 the Duck was not that cute. 1154 01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:39.480 No. He was a cigar-smoking, kind of shitty, mean duck. 1155 01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:39.960 Yeah. 1156 01:02:40.019 --> 01:02:43.780 Kind of Fritz the Cat-ish-like, you know, like really kind 1157 01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:45.800 of borderline obscene. 1158 01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:48.079 It was a Marvel comic, right? Yeah. Yeah. 1159 01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:50.800 And so do you have an image of the old 1160 01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:55.840 Howard the Duck from the comic? Yeah. That guy. Yeah. 1161 01:02:55.909 --> 01:02:57.969 So I walked on the set and I saw that 1162 01:02:58.070 --> 01:02:59.750 cute duck. I was like, uh-oh. 1163 01:03:00.369 --> 01:03:01.329 Yeah, he was always with chicks. 1164 01:03:01.429 --> 01:03:04.929 He was always with chicks, yeah. 1165 01:03:04.969 --> 01:03:08.050 Which was very weird. Like, hey, lady, what are you doing? 1166 01:03:08.070 --> 01:03:11.210 You're fucking a duck? What's going on here? 1167 01:03:11.289 --> 01:03:12.090 Bestiality? 1168 01:03:12.110 --> 01:03:15.880 Like, what is this? What is his charm got you? Like, 1169 01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:16.820 what's the message there? 1170 01:03:16.860 --> 01:03:17.539 Yeah, yeah. 1171 01:03:18.090 --> 01:03:19.190 It was a strange character. 1172 01:03:19.670 --> 01:03:22.900 Very strange. And I don't think they had the technology 1173 01:03:22.940 --> 01:03:23.699 to pull it off. 1174 01:03:25.159 --> 01:03:26.500 Maybe they need to try again now. 1175 01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:28.780 Yeah, it would be good. They could take the old 1176 01:03:28.860 --> 01:03:34.969 film and animate it. But I spent six weeks on 1177 01:03:35.010 --> 01:03:38.889 that film doing an ultralight chase that lasted maybe two 1178 01:03:38.929 --> 01:03:39.710 minutes in the film. 1179 01:03:40.730 --> 01:03:41.989 What's an ultralight plane chase? 1180 01:03:42.010 --> 01:03:45.349 You know the ultralight planes? Basically it's you and the 1181 01:03:45.750 --> 01:03:49.550 wings and a motor. And so there's a chase sequence 1182 01:03:49.590 --> 01:03:51.590 at the end that's about two and a half minute, 1183 01:03:51.650 --> 01:03:52.409 three minute long. 1184 01:03:52.670 --> 01:03:54.340 Did you actually have to get in one of those things? 1185 01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:59.739 No. I mean, I got in like a fake one. Good. Yeah. No, 1186 01:04:00.059 --> 01:04:01.690 you have to fly it. 1187 01:04:01.980 --> 01:04:02.159 Yeah. 1188 01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:06.280 Yeah. You have to. That's fake, of course, right? 1189 01:04:07.139 --> 01:04:07.719 The duck's real. 1190 01:04:08.449 --> 01:04:15.929 Looks so legit. Yeah. 1191 01:04:16.329 --> 01:04:18.449 Was that one of those ones where your little voice, 1192 01:04:18.469 --> 01:04:19.090 you didn't listen? 1193 01:04:20.260 --> 01:04:23.039 No, not at all because that was early in my career, right? 1194 01:04:23.099 --> 01:04:27.139 So it was George Lucas, I remember. That was George Lucas. Yeah, 1195 01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:30.320 he'd just done Star Wars. Whoa. So it had to 1196 01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:31.039 be good, right? 1197 01:04:31.739 --> 01:04:35.320 He went from Star Wars to Howard the Duck. 1198 01:04:35.340 --> 01:04:36.659 Well, he produced Howard the Duck. 1199 01:04:36.679 --> 01:04:36.820 Okay. 1200 01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:41.650 Okay. But he had just produced Star Wars. So, you know, 1201 01:04:41.750 --> 01:04:43.010 it was like, hell yeah. 1202 01:04:43.329 --> 01:04:43.550 Right. 1203 01:04:43.570 --> 01:04:45.769 I don't know. It doesn't make sense on the page, but. 1204 01:04:46.530 --> 01:04:46.989 He'll figure it out. 1205 01:04:47.030 --> 01:04:53.070 He'll figure it out. They'll figure it out. I was 1206 01:04:53.130 --> 01:04:57.280 so lucky to, again, blessed because I got a movie 1207 01:04:57.320 --> 01:05:01.579 called Five Corners that was with Jodie Foster and John 1208 01:05:01.619 --> 01:05:05.840 Turturro right around the same time. So I was I'd 1209 01:05:05.860 --> 01:05:10.210 already done that movie. When Howard came out. So it's 1210 01:05:10.349 --> 01:05:11.989 kind of saved my ass. 1211 01:05:12.050 --> 01:05:13.190 You already had one in the chamber. 1212 01:05:13.409 --> 01:05:13.630 Yeah. 1213 01:05:13.969 --> 01:05:15.090 You had a good one on the pipe. 1214 01:05:15.110 --> 01:05:17.750 Yeah. Thank God. 1215 01:05:21.579 --> 01:05:23.900 It's just I wonder why George did it. Like it 1216 01:05:23.940 --> 01:05:26.900 seems so odd to try to do a movie with 1217 01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:27.739 a talking duck. 1218 01:05:28.260 --> 01:05:31.420 Yeah. Well, maybe it made sense when they imagined it. 1219 01:05:32.500 --> 01:05:34.909 Maybe they were on acid or something. It seems weird. 1220 01:05:35.289 --> 01:05:37.809 I just remember those poor puppeteers, man. They were trying 1221 01:05:37.849 --> 01:05:41.449 to make this thing work. I don't think the technology 1222 01:05:41.469 --> 01:05:42.570 really existed. 1223 01:05:42.590 --> 01:05:45.110 It was like 86 or something? 1224 01:05:45.170 --> 01:05:50.989 Yeah, and they were trying so hard. I felt for everybody, 1225 01:05:51.650 --> 01:05:54.710 including the director. I felt he tried his damn best. 1226 01:05:55.130 --> 01:06:02.050 It was just betrayal by puppeteering. And it wasn't the puppeteers. 1227 01:06:02.219 --> 01:06:03.110 It was the actual puppeteers. 1228 01:06:04.809 --> 01:06:07.309 Well, it's kind of– if you think about Star Wars 1229 01:06:07.329 --> 01:06:09.469 in particular, it's kind of amazing. They were able to 1230 01:06:09.530 --> 01:06:13.250 pull that off with the technology that was available at 1231 01:06:13.289 --> 01:06:17.130 the time to have this crazy movie where– like the 1232 01:06:17.190 --> 01:06:22.210 cantina scene. Yeah. There's all these different fucking creatures from 1233 01:06:22.969 --> 01:06:26.809 different planets and like they did not have very good 1234 01:06:26.869 --> 01:06:30.630 technology back then. Like if you watch that cantina scene now, like, whoa. 1235 01:06:31.340 --> 01:06:32.039 It looks terrible. 1236 01:06:32.260 --> 01:06:32.500 Right. 1237 01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:35.280 It looks so clunky. Like the masks don't move. Like 1238 01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:37.659 everyone's got their faces stuck. 1239 01:06:38.019 --> 01:06:43.889 It's almost like looking at claymation around that time. Yeah. Yeah. 1240 01:06:44.510 --> 01:06:47.329 Amazing what they can do. But I do like the 1241 01:06:47.389 --> 01:06:50.969 old school. I do like the kind of analog version 1242 01:06:51.070 --> 01:06:53.650 of it. Because with the CGI and everything, it's all 1243 01:06:53.789 --> 01:06:58.880 so sophisticated and so– They can do anything now and 1244 01:06:58.900 --> 01:07:01.719 you almost want them not to be able to do everything. 1245 01:07:02.179 --> 01:07:03.059 Oh, 100 percent. 1246 01:07:03.099 --> 01:07:07.070 Yeah. Just want a little roughness around the edges. It 1247 01:07:07.110 --> 01:07:07.650 really helps. 1248 01:07:07.769 --> 01:07:10.969 Well, there's also a thing about CGI where the part 1249 01:07:11.010 --> 01:07:14.349 of your brain that is looking at it recognizes that 1250 01:07:14.369 --> 01:07:16.880 this is not a real thing happening. Like as good 1251 01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:18.519 as it looks, there's something about it. 1252 01:07:18.619 --> 01:07:18.860 Yeah. 1253 01:07:19.230 --> 01:07:22.269 Which is why a lot of the movie special effects 1254 01:07:22.289 --> 01:07:25.309 guys like the monster guys like Rick Baker and along 1255 01:07:25.349 --> 01:07:26.909 those lines who did Star Wars. 1256 01:07:26.949 --> 01:07:27.300 Yeah, yeah. 1257 01:07:27.550 --> 01:07:30.239 American Werewolf in London, that thing outside, the wolf that 1258 01:07:30.260 --> 01:07:34.039 you see in the hallway. Yeah, yeah. That– they wanted 1259 01:07:34.099 --> 01:07:38.460 to make sure that it looked like a real thing, right? 1260 01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:41.199 It was a physical object. So you had a– so 1261 01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:43.219 in order to make it a physical object and obviously 1262 01:07:43.260 --> 01:07:47.090 CGI wasn't even available back then. But you see it 1263 01:07:47.230 --> 01:07:50.289 and you know it's a real thing. Whereas like later on, 1264 01:07:50.710 --> 01:07:53.489 they did The Wolfman and Rick Baker did that as well. 1265 01:07:53.510 --> 01:07:55.269 And there's a lot of CGI in there and the 1266 01:07:55.309 --> 01:07:57.550 transformation scenes. And this part of it is just like 1267 01:07:57.570 --> 01:07:59.969 your brain's like, this isn't really happening. 1268 01:08:00.010 --> 01:08:00.489 Yeah. 1269 01:08:00.530 --> 01:08:01.469 I don't like it. Yeah. 1270 01:08:01.750 --> 01:08:04.199 Yeah. It's kind of the same way in music too. 1271 01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:07.840 Like when they correct everything and make the auto tuning. 1272 01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:08.619 Yeah. 1273 01:08:09.039 --> 01:08:11.860 Great music has a little bit of mistake in it. Yes. 1274 01:08:11.900 --> 01:08:16.239 It has a little bit of like human error. When 1275 01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:19.789 you're hitting a chord on a guitar– There's a way 1276 01:08:19.829 --> 01:08:22.149 to play it perfectly, but there's also a way to 1277 01:08:22.210 --> 01:08:23.909 play it a little messed up. 1278 01:08:24.050 --> 01:08:24.369 Right. 1279 01:08:24.630 --> 01:08:27.430 And I kind of prefer the little bit messed up. 1280 01:08:27.510 --> 01:08:30.439 Like when Hendrix did the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock. 1281 01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:31.420 Yeah. 1282 01:08:31.460 --> 01:08:33.399 There was something about it. It was like. 1283 01:08:33.420 --> 01:08:39.659 Yeah, it was immediate. It was being done at that 1284 01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:42.420 moment with full danger, which is great. 1285 01:08:45.140 --> 01:08:48.760 Thing to listen to yeah this it's really happening yeah 1286 01:08:48.779 --> 01:08:53.810 it's not polished and edited and sent through a machine. 1287 01:08:53.390 --> 01:08:55.289 And you get the feeling that maybe that was the 1288 01:08:55.409 --> 01:08:58.420 second or third time he'd played it. Right. 1289 01:08:58.640 --> 01:08:58.899 Ever. 1290 01:08:59.520 --> 01:09:02.020 Well, maybe the first. Right, right, right. Which would have 1291 01:09:02.039 --> 01:09:05.739 been even more insane. But, you know, yeah. 1292 01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:09.220 Well, that's why people like records. They love listening to 1293 01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:13.390 the scratches and the pops and then you hear the voice. 1294 01:09:14.100 --> 01:09:18.399 Like this just pure recorded voice. There's no auto-tune. There's 1295 01:09:18.439 --> 01:09:19.689 no nothing messing with it. 1296 01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:20.039 Yeah. 1297 01:09:20.279 --> 01:09:21.510 Especially like an old record. 1298 01:09:22.510 --> 01:09:26.010 I have one of those 78s where you have to 1299 01:09:26.210 --> 01:09:29.229 crank them up. Oh, wow. And they have the little, 1300 01:09:29.250 --> 01:09:34.029 you know, cone that amplifies it. Oh, you have one 1301 01:09:34.130 --> 01:09:34.710 of those. 1302 01:09:34.729 --> 01:09:34.829 Right? 1303 01:09:35.229 --> 01:09:37.470 Oh, wow. 1920 or 1910 or something like that. And 1304 01:09:37.649 --> 01:09:40.649 I just imagine, you know, living on the prairie and 1305 01:09:41.180 --> 01:09:45.560 Ordering this from Sears Roebuck, right? And getting your first, 1306 01:09:46.899 --> 01:09:51.069 you know, record and putting it on and hearing this, 1307 01:09:51.550 --> 01:09:56.010 a voice coming from this acetate. It must have been magical. 1308 01:09:56.250 --> 01:09:59.609 It must have been like, you know, transformative to, you know, 1309 01:09:59.670 --> 01:10:04.329 this amplified song that you can dance to or fall 1310 01:10:04.390 --> 01:10:06.590 in love to right in your living room. 1311 01:10:06.909 --> 01:10:08.289 When did they first figure that out? 1312 01:10:08.810 --> 01:10:10.890 I think it was early part of the 20th century. 1313 01:10:11.289 --> 01:10:14.670 Thomas Edison. Thomas Edison? Yeah, they had like a little cylinder. 1314 01:10:15.270 --> 01:10:17.789 But when they started mass producing them in... Oh, like 1315 01:10:17.829 --> 01:10:18.350 just records? 1316 01:10:18.510 --> 01:10:19.989 Yeah, when was the first record? 1317 01:10:20.010 --> 01:10:21.010 I think in the 20s maybe? 1318 01:10:21.130 --> 01:10:22.880 They might have mass produced those because people had them. 1319 01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:28.159 Just a way different player. Let's ask perplexity. What was 1320 01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:34.479 the first record? What was the first actual record disc 1321 01:10:34.899 --> 01:10:37.670 that you could play with a needle? Like a real record. 1322 01:10:42.590 --> 01:10:47.170 I want to say like 1919. I'm just taking a 1323 01:10:47.189 --> 01:10:49.930 wild guess. There's a famous viral video of a guy 1324 01:10:49.970 --> 01:10:55.390 dropping that time I said it. 1931. 12-inch, 33-and-a-third RPM 1325 01:10:55.430 --> 01:10:58.899 disc was pressed in Victor's vinyl-based Victrolac. 1326 01:10:59.779 --> 01:11:04.439 But that's 33-and-a-third. What about the 78s? Is it called, say, 1327 01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:05.800 a 78? I don't think so, yeah. 1328 01:11:05.800 --> 01:11:09.699 23 minutes per side versus roughly the Shellac 78. 48. 1329 01:11:09.699 --> 01:11:16.359 Vinyl LP. Arrived in June 21st, 1948. Columbia Records unveiled, oh, 1330 01:11:16.359 --> 01:11:18.779 33 and a third micro groove, long playing record. So 1331 01:11:19.590 --> 01:11:20.050 was that it? 1332 01:11:20.810 --> 01:11:24.609 But in the 20s and 30s, there was a micro groove. 1333 01:11:24.609 --> 01:11:27.770 47, you got the 45. Oh, okay. 1334 01:11:27.810 --> 01:11:31.960 So the little one singles. 31 first vinyl disc. Wow. 1335 01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:35.319 So 31 for the first vinyl disc, 48 for the 1336 01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:38.619 first real album. Which is really nuts because if you 1337 01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:41.739 think about like all the amazing albums of the 60s, 1338 01:11:42.140 --> 01:11:45.460 you're talking about a technology that didn't exist 20 years prior. 1339 01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:46.600 Wow, that's weird. 1340 01:11:47.180 --> 01:11:47.520 Nuts. 1341 01:11:47.560 --> 01:11:47.939 Yeah. 1342 01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:51.180 Nuts, right? So like when you listen to Voodoo Child, 1343 01:11:51.779 --> 01:11:54.979 like that technology 20 years ago didn't exist. 1344 01:11:55.699 --> 01:11:58.319 Do you remember the magic of watching it for the 1345 01:11:58.359 --> 01:12:00.750 first time? Like when you put that thing down when 1346 01:12:00.770 --> 01:12:02.489 you're a kid and you put it on the thing 1347 01:12:03.010 --> 01:12:04.390 and this music starts coming out? 1348 01:12:05.020 --> 01:12:08.000 Oh, yeah. Well, I remember the ones where– look at that. 1349 01:12:08.060 --> 01:12:11.739 Look at the vinyl grooves around 1,000X magnification. You see 1350 01:12:11.779 --> 01:12:15.329 the waveforms of the music itself. That's crazy. 1351 01:12:15.350 --> 01:12:15.989 Incredible. 1352 01:12:16.090 --> 01:12:18.670 That those little weird– imagine if you were like from 1353 01:12:18.710 --> 01:12:21.510 another civilization and you saw these things. You'd be like, 1354 01:12:21.550 --> 01:12:23.890 what the fuck is this? Like what do they have here? 1355 01:12:23.970 --> 01:12:25.189 How did they figure that out? 1356 01:12:25.229 --> 01:12:28.350 What is this? You'd be like, what? That's– they figured 1357 01:12:28.369 --> 01:12:30.449 out how to make music out of that and you 1358 01:12:30.470 --> 01:12:33.319 could hear a harp. You could hear banjo. You could 1359 01:12:33.340 --> 01:12:34.680 hear– You could hear drums. 1360 01:12:34.699 --> 01:12:35.479 An orchestra. 1361 01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:38.079 Yeah, you could hear jazz joplin all in that. 1362 01:12:38.279 --> 01:12:38.520 Yeah. 1363 01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:39.420 How'd you do that? 1364 01:12:39.859 --> 01:12:40.260 Yeah. 1365 01:12:41.060 --> 01:12:42.840 And if it scratches, it skips? 1366 01:12:44.100 --> 01:12:47.100 I'm really encouraged that vinyl's making a comeback. I'm really 1367 01:12:47.479 --> 01:12:48.689 very excited about that. 1368 01:12:48.890 --> 01:12:49.460 People love it. 1369 01:12:49.569 --> 01:12:51.689 Yeah. It's all the difference. 1370 01:12:51.729 --> 01:12:56.090 People love wood tables. As the world gets more digital, 1371 01:12:56.130 --> 01:13:00.170 people want things that are organic, something that a person made, 1372 01:13:00.250 --> 01:13:03.029 something that seems like... It makes more sense. 1373 01:13:03.170 --> 01:13:06.880 I've been finding in my search for my archive and 1374 01:13:06.909 --> 01:13:10.619 everything cassette tapes that I put on. They sound amazing. 1375 01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:11.119 Really? 1376 01:13:11.140 --> 01:13:18.000 Yeah. They sound really good because there's more information in 1377 01:13:18.060 --> 01:13:21.880 a little cassette tape than on a– whether it's MP3 1378 01:13:21.920 --> 01:13:27.989 that's been compressed and compressed and compressed and compressed. But 1379 01:13:28.510 --> 01:13:33.270 reel-to-reels obviously sound still great, but the cassette tapes really survived. 1380 01:13:33.750 --> 01:13:37.430 I've been digitizing everything, of course, just to make sure 1381 01:13:37.470 --> 01:13:42.130 that they don't decay. But it's been really interesting. A 1382 01:13:42.170 --> 01:13:45.810 lot of my dad's music he recorded on cassette tapes. 1383 01:13:46.270 --> 01:13:49.949 He was a folk singer. They did five albums as 1384 01:13:49.979 --> 01:13:54.500 the Highwaymen, but he was a classical musician and did 1385 01:13:55.020 --> 01:13:57.000 choral music and so he had a group and he 1386 01:13:57.039 --> 01:13:59.960 would record on these cassette tapes and so we've been 1387 01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:03.319 digitizing those because we're I'm going to put them all 1388 01:14:03.380 --> 01:14:06.699 on my new website this thing called Robbins Radio which 1389 01:14:06.739 --> 01:14:10.930 will be my dad my granddad my brother and myself 1390 01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:14.029 the music that we've done over the years kind of 1391 01:14:14.090 --> 01:14:16.270 playing on a constant loop when you come onto the 1392 01:14:16.310 --> 01:14:19.729 website oh wow yeah so I was to honor my 1393 01:14:19.770 --> 01:14:24.189 dad I've been digitizing also his scores and you know 1394 01:14:24.449 --> 01:14:29.069 he wrote music by hand and so I've got boxes 1395 01:14:29.130 --> 01:14:32.850 and boxes of that that I'm trying to transcribe and 1396 01:14:33.289 --> 01:14:36.310 make available probably in about six months we'll have that 1397 01:14:36.390 --> 01:14:37.270 archive up. 1398 01:14:37.569 --> 01:14:40.930 Oh that's awesome when did they figure out how to 1399 01:14:40.949 --> 01:14:45.880 put things on cassette tapes that happened that was around 1400 01:14:45.979 --> 01:14:48.140 when I was in high school I remember I had 1401 01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:50.399 a cassette deck on my car. 1402 01:14:51.060 --> 01:14:53.899 And there was pretty good technology you could buy really 1403 01:14:53.920 --> 01:14:59.100 good microphones And plugged them into a pretty good cassette player. 1404 01:14:59.189 --> 01:15:00.529 Well, 8-track was the first, right? 1405 01:15:01.250 --> 01:15:04.229 I think so, but those were so impractical. 1406 01:15:04.250 --> 01:15:04.909 Well, they were huge. 1407 01:15:05.270 --> 01:15:07.289 Yeah, plus they'd stop in the middle of a song 1408 01:15:07.310 --> 01:15:09.310 and then go to the next track. 1409 01:15:09.529 --> 01:15:09.979 Oh, really? 1410 01:15:10.039 --> 01:15:13.600 Yeah. I remember driving with my friend Frank, who lives 1411 01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:15.979 in Austin right now. And we were driving back up 1412 01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:19.899 to school, my first school, college, Plattsburgh. And there was 1413 01:15:19.979 --> 01:15:23.810 an 8-track of Bread playing. You remember that band Bread? 1414 01:15:23.890 --> 01:15:24.590 Uh-huh. 1415 01:15:24.869 --> 01:15:28.750 And this was around 1977. And he rips it out 1416 01:15:28.770 --> 01:15:32.369 of the 8-track, rolls down the window, throws it out. 1417 01:15:33.369 --> 01:15:37.310 We're never listening to that again. It's punk rock from 1418 01:15:37.350 --> 01:15:40.630 this point forward. And it was like a defining moment 1419 01:15:40.670 --> 01:15:43.970 in my musical life was like Frank saying, no more Bread. 1420 01:15:43.989 --> 01:15:48.170 No more Bread. No more Bread. He's going to put 1421 01:15:48.189 --> 01:15:48.550 his foot down. 1422 01:15:48.569 --> 01:15:49.489 It's Sex Pistols now. 1423 01:15:49.649 --> 01:15:54.359 That's hilarious. I remember my first introduction to 8-track. My 1424 01:15:54.399 --> 01:15:57.420 friend Javier, when I lived in Florida, his mom had 1425 01:15:57.439 --> 01:16:00.520 an 8-track player. And she had, what is that song? 1426 01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:04.770 Who sings it? When my baby, when my baby smiles 1427 01:16:04.810 --> 01:16:08.010 at me, I go to Rio de Janeiro. Remember that song? 1428 01:16:08.029 --> 01:16:08.369 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1429 01:16:08.390 --> 01:16:11.210 I don't remember who sings it. Pablo Cruz. 1430 01:16:11.850 --> 01:16:12.489 Oh, yeah. 1431 01:16:12.670 --> 01:16:15.819 Okay, yeah. And she had a Pablo Cruz 8-track in 1432 01:16:15.850 --> 01:16:18.710 her car. I'm like, this lady is a wizard. She's 1433 01:16:18.750 --> 01:16:21.369 got her own music. Because before then, I think I 1434 01:16:21.409 --> 01:16:23.810 had only seen people play stuff that was on the radio. 1435 01:16:23.829 --> 01:16:24.449 Right, right. 1436 01:16:24.590 --> 01:16:26.710 And she put it in there and she pressed the button. 1437 01:16:26.729 --> 01:16:30.060 I was like, this is crazy. She gets to pick 1438 01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:33.899 what songs are on the radio in a car? I 1439 01:16:33.939 --> 01:16:35.479 thought it was the wildest thing I'd ever seen in 1440 01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:35.880 my life. 1441 01:16:36.020 --> 01:16:39.300 Yeah, yeah. That was right. It was eight-track first, then 1442 01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:40.930 the cassette, and then the CDs. 1443 01:16:40.939 --> 01:16:42.579 The cassette was so much better. You had to flip 1444 01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:43.800 it over, though, pop it out, flip it over to 1445 01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:44.720 the other side. 1446 01:16:44.739 --> 01:16:46.800 Yeah, but those things are cooked in the sun, though. 1447 01:16:47.239 --> 01:16:49.250 Oh, yeah. Oh, I lost a bunch. I used to 1448 01:16:49.289 --> 01:16:51.930 have one of them big books with cassettes in it 1449 01:16:52.029 --> 01:16:54.649 and these little vinyl things. You leave it in your car, 1450 01:16:54.670 --> 01:16:56.409 and they get fucked, and then it gets stuck in 1451 01:16:56.449 --> 01:16:59.189 the tape machine, and you had to do it with 1452 01:16:59.220 --> 01:17:01.359 your finger. You had to try to wind it back 1453 01:17:01.399 --> 01:17:02.000 with your finger. 1454 01:17:02.020 --> 01:17:05.930 Yeah. Which I did like a month ago with one 1455 01:17:06.010 --> 01:17:06.689 of the old cassettes. 1456 01:17:06.710 --> 01:17:08.560 You had to stick your pinky in there. 1457 01:17:08.640 --> 01:17:12.539 I just did that last month trying to re-spool it. 1458 01:17:12.539 --> 01:17:16.600 Yeah, nobody knows what the fuck we're talking about today. Well, 1459 01:17:16.619 --> 01:17:19.779 then VHS tapes was the next one because that was 1460 01:17:19.819 --> 01:17:21.699 the first time where you could choose to watch a 1461 01:17:21.739 --> 01:17:22.390 film at home. 1462 01:17:22.930 --> 01:17:23.170 Yes. 1463 01:17:23.529 --> 01:17:23.829 You know? 1464 01:17:24.010 --> 01:17:26.890 Yes. And a huge deal too. I mourn the loss 1465 01:17:27.229 --> 01:17:28.729 of video stores. 1466 01:17:31.229 --> 01:17:33.090 Oh, yeah. Because it's a great experience. 1467 01:17:33.310 --> 01:17:35.369 Well, yeah, because you could go and you say, you know, 1468 01:17:35.409 --> 01:17:37.409 I just saw this film and there was someone that 1469 01:17:37.489 --> 01:17:38.489 really loved film there. 1470 01:17:38.729 --> 01:17:39.060 Right. 1471 01:17:39.260 --> 01:17:41.100 And he could say, well, if you like that one, 1472 01:17:41.279 --> 01:17:41.979 check this one out. 1473 01:17:42.060 --> 01:17:42.760 Yeah. 1474 01:17:43.220 --> 01:17:45.979 That was that's now been replaced by an algorithm. 1475 01:17:46.000 --> 01:17:46.619 Right. 1476 01:17:46.899 --> 01:17:49.399 And I'm not trusting that algorithm is going to find 1477 01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:52.239 it's going to show me the way to Battle of 1478 01:17:52.300 --> 01:17:56.000 Algiers or any kind of these great movies. I just 1479 01:17:56.640 --> 01:18:01.060 if the personal was lost. Same thing with record stores. 1480 01:18:01.100 --> 01:18:04.000 You could go in and like what's new and hear 1481 01:18:04.020 --> 01:18:07.340 what's playing and talk to the guy and get what 1482 01:18:07.380 --> 01:18:12.239 his opinion was and bookstores too. It's like if you 1483 01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:14.779 told me 30 years ago that it would be– it's 1484 01:18:14.859 --> 01:18:17.199 very hard to find a bookstore, a record store or 1485 01:18:17.220 --> 01:18:20.939 a video store, I would say you're crazy. But now 1486 01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:24.710 it's all like very convenient. You have access to everything 1487 01:18:25.189 --> 01:18:28.890 but you don't have– the arbiter that is a person 1488 01:18:28.949 --> 01:18:31.310 you have the arbiter that's almost a machine. 1489 01:18:31.300 --> 01:18:33.920 Right you get a little bit of that with people 1490 01:18:34.100 --> 01:18:38.100 online recommending stuff yeah just kind of cool you know 1491 01:18:38.159 --> 01:18:39.920 someone says hey i just saw the show it's fucking 1492 01:18:39.939 --> 01:18:42.149 incredible that's true you get a little bit of that 1493 01:18:43.100 --> 01:18:46.800 and then you get imdb and rotten Tomatoes scores, which 1494 01:18:46.859 --> 01:18:51.619 I think does something. They're a little manipulated occasionally, but 1495 01:18:51.680 --> 01:18:53.920 there's something to it where you get to see what 1496 01:18:53.979 --> 01:18:56.640 people think about it. That helps. 1497 01:18:56.779 --> 01:19:00.380 Yeah, that's nice. I think Silo is like 100% Rotten Tomatoes. 1498 01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:00.859 Is it really? 1499 01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:02.939 Yeah, right now it is. That's nice. 1500 01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:04.789 Once you said that, though, you put it out there. 1501 01:19:04.810 --> 01:19:05.449 I know. Now it's dead. 1502 01:19:05.489 --> 01:19:06.909 The assholes are going to come. 1503 01:19:07.289 --> 01:19:08.090 I just killed it. 1504 01:19:08.090 --> 01:19:11.670 They're going to bomb it. 1505 01:19:11.670 --> 01:19:14.689 They're going to bomb it into oblivion. 1506 01:19:14.750 --> 01:19:17.310 Oh, yeah? 100%? We'll see about that. But there's almost 1507 01:19:17.529 --> 01:19:21.010 too many shows. You know, there's just too much. I 1508 01:19:21.050 --> 01:19:24.170 just got into The Agency. I just finished season two 1509 01:19:24.189 --> 01:19:28.550 of The Agency on it. Michael Fassbender. It's a CIA 1510 01:19:29.489 --> 01:19:34.350 series that's on Paramount. It's fucking incredible. It's so well written. 1511 01:19:34.670 --> 01:19:37.189 It's so well acted that it makes so many other 1512 01:19:37.210 --> 01:19:40.710 shows seem really clunky because it's just– it's so good. 1513 01:19:41.210 --> 01:19:43.789 It's got so many layers to it and it's subtle 1514 01:19:43.949 --> 01:19:46.689 and it's brilliant and it's– and Fassbender is one of 1515 01:19:46.710 --> 01:19:48.369 my favorite actors. He's fucking incredible. 1516 01:19:48.390 --> 01:19:48.850 He's great. 1517 01:19:48.930 --> 01:19:52.270 He's so good. He's so good in this. He plays 1518 01:19:52.310 --> 01:19:53.560 this CIA spook. 1519 01:19:54.520 --> 01:19:56.380 So many– Things to choose from. 1520 01:19:56.439 --> 01:19:56.840 Too many. 1521 01:19:56.939 --> 01:19:57.140 Yeah. 1522 01:19:57.579 --> 01:19:57.939 Almost. 1523 01:19:58.300 --> 01:19:59.539 Yeah. I mean– Maybe. 1524 01:19:59.840 --> 01:20:03.020 Essentially, you could waste your whole life just being entertained. 1525 01:20:03.039 --> 01:20:05.500 Like it used to be difficult to be entertained, which 1526 01:20:05.539 --> 01:20:06.960 I think there's something to that. You had to go 1527 01:20:07.000 --> 01:20:08.699 to a place. You had to pay. You could buy 1528 01:20:08.720 --> 01:20:10.060 your popcorn and sit down. 1529 01:20:10.420 --> 01:20:12.380 You had to make an active choice in your life. 1530 01:20:12.800 --> 01:20:15.560 Now it's just like– Yeah, steps along the way. 1531 01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:18.409 They've made it more convenient to be entertained. But then again, 1532 01:20:18.430 --> 01:20:22.380 it's like there's something lost in that. Like, oh, the 1533 01:20:22.420 --> 01:20:23.439 movie starts at 7. 1534 01:20:23.439 --> 01:20:23.630 Come on. 1535 01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:24.779 We got to get out of here. We got to 1536 01:20:24.800 --> 01:20:26.579 go park. We got to get there. We got to 1537 01:20:26.600 --> 01:20:28.869 get there in time. There was a lot to it. 1538 01:20:29.359 --> 01:20:33.630 Or the idea that if there's only three choices, you 1539 01:20:33.789 --> 01:20:36.869 might stumble into something you wouldn't have watched. Right. And 1540 01:20:37.109 --> 01:20:37.670 be surprised. 1541 01:20:37.829 --> 01:20:39.939 Oh, all the time. You'd go, what do they have 1542 01:20:39.979 --> 01:20:41.579 at the movie theater? Like, what's this? 1543 01:20:41.859 --> 01:20:42.100 All right. 1544 01:20:42.140 --> 01:20:45.359 Well, there's no more Star Wars tickets left. So we 1545 01:20:45.399 --> 01:20:47.479 could go see this. You want to see this? What 1546 01:20:47.539 --> 01:20:48.319 is it? I don't know. 1547 01:20:48.579 --> 01:20:49.159 Yeah. 1548 01:20:49.180 --> 01:20:51.260 This guy's in it though. I like him. Like, okay. 1549 01:20:51.420 --> 01:20:52.050 Yeah, let's check it out. 1550 01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:54.819 And you would just take a guess. That's the crazy 1551 01:20:54.850 --> 01:20:57.609 thing about Shawshank is that it wasn't a big hit 1552 01:20:57.750 --> 01:21:01.090 in the movie theater initially. No. Which is really hard 1553 01:21:01.130 --> 01:21:02.630 to believe now. Yeah. 1554 01:21:03.529 --> 01:21:08.289 No, it was nominated for seven Academy Awards, but nobody 1555 01:21:08.310 --> 01:21:08.810 went to see it. 1556 01:21:09.090 --> 01:21:09.930 That's nuts. 1557 01:21:10.270 --> 01:21:13.449 Yeah. Maybe it was a title they didn't understand or 1558 01:21:13.710 --> 01:21:16.270 I don't know what it was. I was in two 1559 01:21:16.329 --> 01:21:19.829 films that year, one, Hudsucker Proxy and Shawshank Redemption, two 1560 01:21:19.909 --> 01:21:25.729 really challenging titles. But like what's it about? Hudsucker? I 1561 01:21:26.100 --> 01:21:30.020 don't know. What's it about? I had people coming up 1562 01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:32.079 to me and saying, I really liked you in that 1563 01:21:33.140 --> 01:21:39.119 Scrimshaw Reduction. I'm like, yeah, thank you. 1564 01:21:39.199 --> 01:21:41.760 Especially if they don't plan on meeting you and they 1565 01:21:41.800 --> 01:21:45.779 run into you at a restaurant. Like, Tim Robbins, that movie, the. 1566 01:21:45.720 --> 01:21:50.289 Shawshank, Trimshaw. Shimshank. Shimshank, Shawshank. 1567 01:21:50.470 --> 01:21:53.670 What did it come out against? What other films were 1568 01:21:53.750 --> 01:21:56.029 out at the same time as Shawshank? Was there other 1569 01:21:56.130 --> 01:22:01.340 like big movies? Forrest Gump. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Jurassic Park. 1570 01:22:01.359 --> 01:22:04.229 Yeah. Pulp Fiction. Oh, Jesus. 1571 01:22:04.329 --> 01:22:08.050 Ace Ventura. Oh, my God. Ace Ventura, too? That's one 1572 01:22:08.069 --> 01:22:10.270 of the best years for movies in history. Oh, my God. 1573 01:22:10.689 --> 01:22:11.109 Yeah. 1574 01:22:11.640 --> 01:22:12.399 Pulp Fiction. 1575 01:22:12.689 --> 01:22:17.640 Oh, my God. But, you know, it made its way, 1576 01:22:19.159 --> 01:22:24.359 interestingly enough, because... So Ted Turner was running Warner Brothers 1577 01:22:24.399 --> 01:22:28.079 at the time, right? And Warner Brothers produced Shawshank Redemption. 1578 01:22:29.100 --> 01:22:29.220 And. 1579 01:22:30.590 --> 01:22:34.670 When he sold the rights to it for television, he 1580 01:22:34.729 --> 01:22:38.939 sold it to himself at the lowest cost possible. So 1581 01:22:39.020 --> 01:22:43.079 basically you had a film nominated for seven Academy Awards. 1582 01:22:43.140 --> 01:22:47.220 It was getting sold like it was beach blanket bullshit. 1583 01:22:49.899 --> 01:22:52.100 And so it didn't cost him anything to put it 1584 01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:56.920 on his channel. So he put it on again and 1585 01:22:56.960 --> 01:23:00.180 again and again, was getting all those advertising dollars that 1586 01:23:00.220 --> 01:23:04.439 come with playing something on his TV channel. And I 1587 01:23:04.520 --> 01:23:08.920 think that's why it caught on because it was ubiquitous. 1588 01:23:08.960 --> 01:23:11.659 It was always there. It was always something you could see. 1589 01:23:12.550 --> 01:23:15.750 And so eventually people understood what kind of movie it was. 1590 01:23:16.409 --> 01:23:17.329 Wow. 1591 01:23:17.630 --> 01:23:21.130 And so that's a good example of where someone's business 1592 01:23:21.789 --> 01:23:25.220 acumen or– Greed or whatever you want to call it 1593 01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:31.939 winds up producing something quite lovely, something that actually I'm 1594 01:23:32.180 --> 01:23:35.479 really grateful for because so many people know that film. 1595 01:23:35.560 --> 01:23:38.500 And it's been like number one on IMDb for the 1596 01:23:38.720 --> 01:23:39.920 last 15 years, 20 years. 1597 01:23:39.939 --> 01:23:40.579 Isn't that crazy? 1598 01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:41.300 Yeah, it's crazy. 1599 01:23:42.159 --> 01:23:44.460 And that was one of those movies that also took 1600 01:23:44.539 --> 01:23:48.579 off like wildfire once it got into video because once 1601 01:23:48.600 --> 01:23:49.930 people could watch it at home. 1602 01:23:50.359 --> 01:23:50.479 Yeah. 1603 01:23:50.739 --> 01:23:52.819 That was– even though if it didn't do as well 1604 01:23:52.899 --> 01:23:55.739 in the theaters as it should have, on video it 1605 01:23:55.800 --> 01:23:56.859 did fantastic. 1606 01:23:57.199 --> 01:24:00.890 Yeah, which is why I really– I always remember that 1607 01:24:01.029 --> 01:24:05.729 when I'm in a movie and it doesn't quote-unquote perform. 1608 01:24:06.369 --> 01:24:13.060 I'm the turtle. I know the turtle can win the race. 1609 01:24:14.539 --> 01:24:18.359 Yeah. Yeah, it's– That was something that was lost also 1610 01:24:18.420 --> 01:24:20.649 during the pandemic, and I was really worried about that, 1611 01:24:20.689 --> 01:24:23.250 that it wasn't going to come back. It seemed like 1612 01:24:23.590 --> 01:24:26.090 it was so easy to stream films at home that 1613 01:24:26.130 --> 01:24:28.930 people just– for a while, it was hard to get 1614 01:24:28.949 --> 01:24:30.130 people to go out to movie theaters. 1615 01:24:30.329 --> 01:24:30.770 Yeah. 1616 01:24:30.789 --> 01:24:32.449 And the experience is very different. 1617 01:24:32.630 --> 01:24:32.930 Yeah. 1618 01:24:33.010 --> 01:24:33.789 It's very different. 1619 01:24:34.930 --> 01:24:40.039 Yeah. It's been a struggle. And I think also a 1620 01:24:40.880 --> 01:24:45.189 lot of producers in Hollywood– or studios lost faith in 1621 01:24:45.229 --> 01:24:48.979 their adult audience, even before the pandemic. I mean, they 1622 01:24:49.819 --> 01:24:55.479 were producing movies for teenagers and, you know, there's nothing 1623 01:24:55.520 --> 01:24:58.659 wrong with that, but, uh, because they can be, that 1624 01:24:58.680 --> 01:25:02.149 can drive an economic engine. But at the same time, 1625 01:25:02.170 --> 01:25:06.109 you know, films like Shawshank Redemption would not get made 1626 01:25:06.850 --> 01:25:12.869 today because they're about something that isn't about the, the whole, 1627 01:25:13.659 --> 01:25:20.109 huge multi-platform experience of an action movie. And that's unfortunate. 1628 01:25:20.130 --> 01:25:24.909 And that's kind of migrated into streamers. People, adults that 1629 01:25:24.970 --> 01:25:28.750 like to watch stuff tend to watch these longer form things. 1630 01:25:28.850 --> 01:25:32.989 And that's a nice thing in a way because it's 1631 01:25:33.050 --> 01:25:36.409 allowing filmmakers to make 10-hour films. You know, when you 1632 01:25:36.439 --> 01:25:40.659 think about it, a season of a show is 10 hours. 1633 01:25:41.649 --> 01:25:43.649 And so you can think in this like kind of 1634 01:25:43.890 --> 01:25:48.039 long form of telling a story, which is a nice thing, 1635 01:25:48.079 --> 01:25:51.539 which would have been impossible in old Hollywood. You've got 1636 01:25:51.560 --> 01:25:54.560 to keep it under two hours. So now you have 1637 01:25:54.760 --> 01:25:59.350 the opportunity– creators have the opportunity to create long form entertainment. 1638 01:25:59.939 --> 01:26:01.949 Well, that I think is one of the beautiful things 1639 01:26:02.029 --> 01:26:06.210 about some of these Netflix series is that you– like 1640 01:26:06.550 --> 01:26:09.210 things like Stranger Things. You essentially have a 30-hour movie. 1641 01:26:11.039 --> 01:26:14.500 Or however many episodes it is. And like Ozark is 1642 01:26:14.520 --> 01:26:17.220 a great example of that. It's like a fucking amazing show. 1643 01:26:17.640 --> 01:26:21.539 And it's essentially like a movie every week. And the 1644 01:26:21.600 --> 01:26:25.420 story continues to progress. And you get a chance to 1645 01:26:25.699 --> 01:26:29.979 really stretch something out. But you get the quality of 1646 01:26:30.039 --> 01:26:33.939 like a great film. But you get it extended. You know, 1647 01:26:33.960 --> 01:26:36.500 these huge budgets, the fact that they're able to do this, like, 1648 01:26:36.939 --> 01:26:41.010 So because of streaming, it has opened up this long 1649 01:26:41.170 --> 01:26:44.750 form aspect of storytelling that I think is really difficult 1650 01:26:44.789 --> 01:26:47.109 to do in a movie. Like Kill Bill kind of 1651 01:26:47.220 --> 01:26:47.880 did it a little bit. 1652 01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:48.300 For sure. 1653 01:26:48.340 --> 01:26:49.560 You have two episodes of it. 1654 01:26:49.779 --> 01:26:53.020 It's nice also as an actor, like with Silo, I've 1655 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:58.369 had three seasons. The first two seasons, my character represented something, 1656 01:26:58.630 --> 01:27:01.800 which is … It completely shifts in season three. 1657 01:27:01.840 --> 01:27:03.020 Oh, spoiler alert. Don't tell me. 1658 01:27:03.020 --> 01:27:05.239 No, I'm not telling you what it is. I can't 1659 01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:06.579 believe you did that. I'm just telling you that. 1660 01:27:06.680 --> 01:27:07.739 You fucked it up for me. Now I'm going to 1661 01:27:07.760 --> 01:27:08.399 be looking for that. 1662 01:27:10.619 --> 01:27:12.760 You won't even be able to guess. 1663 01:27:12.899 --> 01:27:13.779 Okay. Oh, good. 1664 01:27:14.819 --> 01:27:18.689 Good. It's such a profound– and it was fun to play. 1665 01:27:18.810 --> 01:27:21.050 It was like this kind of like– and I was 1666 01:27:21.090 --> 01:27:23.909 told about this at the beginning. The creator said, you know, listen, 1667 01:27:25.970 --> 01:27:26.649 wait until season three. 1668 01:27:27.090 --> 01:27:29.710 That's interesting because I always wonder how far they map 1669 01:27:29.770 --> 01:27:34.140 these things out. Did they even know that they were 1670 01:27:34.159 --> 01:27:36.039 going to be picked up for season three when he started? 1671 01:27:36.979 --> 01:27:40.500 No, but they knew at the end of season one 1672 01:27:41.680 --> 01:27:43.500 what the trajectory of two and three was. 1673 01:27:44.079 --> 01:27:45.590 So if it got picked up, they had a plan? 1674 01:27:45.609 --> 01:27:46.989 Well, if they were going to get picked up, they 1675 01:27:47.029 --> 01:27:51.930 would have to tell the studio what two and three are. Right? 1676 01:27:52.590 --> 01:27:55.949 So the other thing that you have to consider is 1677 01:27:56.010 --> 01:28:00.399 that if you're an asshole, they'll fucking kill you. 1678 01:28:00.420 --> 01:28:02.460 It's true. 1679 01:28:02.859 --> 01:28:06.079 Right. Writers don't, you know, writers don't, you know, if 1680 01:28:06.140 --> 01:28:10.340 an actor is like trouble, right, right, right. They'll kill him. 1681 01:28:11.460 --> 01:28:15.000 I've heard it. I've heard, I've been told about, uh, 1682 01:28:15.560 --> 01:28:17.420 you know, one of the, one of the guys I 1683 01:28:17.460 --> 01:28:19.920 worked with was, uh, I won't say his name, but 1684 01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:23.579 you know, when I was directing for television, um, uh, 1685 01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:26.069 I did a couple episodes on this show and, He 1686 01:28:26.130 --> 01:28:29.109 told me about a show that he was doing where 1687 01:28:29.149 --> 01:28:30.920 there were three actors that were giving him a real 1688 01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:34.720 hard time. And one of them was getting in trouble 1689 01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:40.140 because of sexual inappropriateness. One was getting in trouble because 1690 01:28:40.199 --> 01:28:42.520 of– they were too much in their head and the 1691 01:28:42.560 --> 01:28:48.670 other was something else, something about another– basically they shot 1692 01:28:48.710 --> 01:28:51.890 them all in the anatomy that was associated with what 1693 01:28:51.909 --> 01:28:55.989 their problem was. Yeah. All three of them were shot 1694 01:28:56.369 --> 01:28:59.590 in the finale. Oh, no. He said, well, we allowed 1695 01:28:59.630 --> 01:29:01.550 a couple of them to survive, but one we really 1696 01:29:01.569 --> 01:29:05.609 killed off. So, you know, you don't mess with the writers. 1697 01:29:06.109 --> 01:29:09.449 They're in television. They wield a lot of power. 1698 01:29:09.569 --> 01:29:13.529 Not only that, they're also looking for angles, different places 1699 01:29:13.550 --> 01:29:14.369 to take the character. 1700 01:29:14.409 --> 01:29:14.569 Right. 1701 01:29:14.590 --> 01:29:17.010 And if you're a douchebag, you're like, let's. 1702 01:29:16.630 --> 01:29:18.729 Fucking kill this guy. Yeah, that'll be a good show. 1703 01:29:18.930 --> 01:29:21.289 Let's figure out a way to kill this guy off. 1704 01:29:21.630 --> 01:29:27.779 Let's turn him into a pedophile and then we kill him. Basically, 1705 01:29:28.220 --> 01:29:30.579 you can do whatever you want. Here's the twist. I 1706 01:29:30.619 --> 01:29:32.359 didn't see this coming. Yeah. 1707 01:29:32.539 --> 01:29:33.810 Yeah. Watch out. 1708 01:29:34.100 --> 01:29:34.380 Yeah. 1709 01:29:34.479 --> 01:29:34.920 Be nice. 1710 01:29:35.600 --> 01:29:38.800 Well, you know, there's a lot of fear in Hollywood 1711 01:29:38.859 --> 01:29:42.640 when it comes to AI and replacing writers and replacing 1712 01:29:43.260 --> 01:29:49.630 actors and just replacing this whole human created thing of storytelling. 1713 01:29:49.930 --> 01:29:53.310 And I think writers in particular are really terrified because 1714 01:29:53.609 --> 01:29:57.819 you could kind of, you know, with with. AI engines today, 1715 01:29:57.859 --> 01:30:01.020 you could kind of take a few films, right? Like 1716 01:30:01.060 --> 01:30:05.130 you could kind of take like Bullet and Heat and 1717 01:30:05.149 --> 01:30:08.909 a few– and they say, make me John Wick meets 1718 01:30:09.029 --> 01:30:13.649 Bullet meets Heat. And this is the protagonist. This is 1719 01:30:13.689 --> 01:30:17.470 what he's facing. These are the issues. And AI can 1720 01:30:17.569 --> 01:30:19.689 churn it out in a few minutes. 1721 01:30:19.710 --> 01:30:19.930 Yeah. 1722 01:30:20.739 --> 01:30:23.000 And then you could say make it more like Quentin 1723 01:30:23.020 --> 01:30:24.939 Tarantino would do it and then it will do that. 1724 01:30:24.960 --> 01:30:25.899 It will fix it in that way. 1725 01:30:25.979 --> 01:30:26.399 That's crazy. 1726 01:30:26.420 --> 01:30:28.689 And then you say, OK, I want it more like 1727 01:30:28.970 --> 01:30:32.029 Kubrick aspects to it. I want some weirdness to it, 1728 01:30:32.250 --> 01:30:36.289 some real thought, some Easter eggs, some hidden aspects to 1729 01:30:36.329 --> 01:30:39.310 it that people connect later. It will do that. It 1730 01:30:40.109 --> 01:30:45.380 can do stuff instantaneously based on– and it's kind of stealing, right? 1731 01:30:45.659 --> 01:30:48.720 But it's not, right? It's making an original thing but 1732 01:30:48.760 --> 01:30:51.779 it's not. because it's inspired by everything else that's already 1733 01:30:51.800 --> 01:30:55.260 been made, but that's kind of what people do, but 1734 01:30:55.340 --> 01:30:57.399 not in the same way. And we don't do it 1735 01:30:57.420 --> 01:31:01.500 that quick either. And so for writers, it's fucking terrifying. Yeah. 1736 01:31:01.579 --> 01:31:03.699 And who do you sue? I mean, you can't sue a. 1737 01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:06.239 Well, artists are having a real problem with that. 1738 01:31:06.420 --> 01:31:08.350 I have a real problem with it. Yeah. I don't, 1739 01:31:08.479 --> 01:31:10.989 I don't like it at all, but I also have 1740 01:31:11.050 --> 01:31:16.060 faith in the individuality of the human, um, experience and, uh, 1741 01:31:16.770 --> 01:31:23.420 What I– like I'm writing a companion piece to the 1742 01:31:23.479 --> 01:31:28.520 player right now and what would happen if that character 1743 01:31:29.399 --> 01:31:35.310 was alive today. And so I have my perspective that 1744 01:31:35.470 --> 01:31:37.630 only I'm going to bring to that. I don't think 1745 01:31:37.670 --> 01:31:38.729 you could plug that into it. 1746 01:31:38.770 --> 01:31:39.670 No, no, no. 1747 01:31:39.710 --> 01:31:43.390 So I think talented people will figure out a way 1748 01:31:43.470 --> 01:31:47.659 to be individual and apart from AI and But I 1749 01:31:47.760 --> 01:31:54.010 also really don't like the lack of protection that the 1750 01:31:54.090 --> 01:32:00.289 guilds and the unions are offering their membership. There should 1751 01:32:00.310 --> 01:32:04.149 have been a hard line for the actors union and 1752 01:32:04.189 --> 01:32:07.819 there wasn't. The hard line should have been you cannot 1753 01:32:08.060 --> 01:32:09.600 use this to replace actors. 1754 01:32:09.840 --> 01:32:10.659 Right. 1755 01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:14.500 Or writers. But there was compromise and– or writers for 1756 01:32:14.539 --> 01:32:19.350 the writers union. I don't think that that protection was 1757 01:32:19.409 --> 01:32:22.180 held up at the last negotiations and I think that 1758 01:32:22.359 --> 01:32:25.739 we're going to see the ramifications of that unfortunately. 1759 01:32:25.859 --> 01:32:30.479 Well, that's what's scary is that ultimately economics has a 1760 01:32:30.640 --> 01:32:34.649 major impact on the decisions that they make and it's 1761 01:32:35.409 --> 01:32:37.909 way cheaper to do it that way. It's way cheaper 1762 01:32:37.930 --> 01:32:41.609 to use AI to write things than screenwriters, especially really 1763 01:32:41.649 --> 01:32:44.850 talented screenwriters, even though it's kind of drawing on the 1764 01:32:44.949 --> 01:32:47.800 past creative work. Of really talented screenwriters. 1765 01:32:48.199 --> 01:32:48.399 Right. 1766 01:32:48.439 --> 01:32:51.850 They don't get compensated for it. I think ultimately people 1767 01:32:51.970 --> 01:32:54.670 are going to want and appreciate something that's made by 1768 01:32:54.689 --> 01:32:56.689 a human being because it's one of the things– it's 1769 01:32:56.729 --> 01:32:59.979 what we really– not just be entertained. We really love 1770 01:33:00.029 --> 01:33:01.739 the fact that someone made something. 1771 01:33:01.960 --> 01:33:06.399 Well, my girlfriend, Reed Morano, has been advocating for a 1772 01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:10.689 seal to be put on projects that are made without AI. 1773 01:33:11.039 --> 01:33:11.859 That's a great idea. 1774 01:33:11.880 --> 01:33:11.960 Yeah. 1775 01:33:12.199 --> 01:33:13.340 That is a very good idea. 1776 01:33:13.359 --> 01:33:14.640 I think that's a great idea. 1777 01:33:14.760 --> 01:33:17.560 I like that a lot. I think– yeah. Instead of 1778 01:33:17.600 --> 01:33:18.560 like the parental warning. 1779 01:33:18.859 --> 01:33:19.880 AI-free. Yeah. 1780 01:33:19.979 --> 01:33:20.979 AI-free, right? 1781 01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:21.220 Yeah. 1782 01:33:21.260 --> 01:33:25.840 No GMO foods, bitch. There's something to that. I think 1783 01:33:25.899 --> 01:33:28.460 that's a great idea actually. I think that might be 1784 01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:31.039 the way– that might be the solution is a seal. 1785 01:33:31.380 --> 01:33:31.619 Yeah. 1786 01:33:31.840 --> 01:33:37.670 I like that a lot. Makes sense. People– When you 1787 01:33:37.829 --> 01:33:41.489 see a great something that someone made, one of the 1788 01:33:41.510 --> 01:33:43.109 things that you really like about it is that it 1789 01:33:43.170 --> 01:33:46.970 came from a human being's creativity. Did you see Obsession? 1790 01:33:47.689 --> 01:33:49.510 No. It's fucking great. 1791 01:33:50.270 --> 01:33:52.949 It's so good. It's so crazy and so creepy and 1792 01:33:52.970 --> 01:33:56.550 so weird and so brilliant. And like no one in 1793 01:33:56.590 --> 01:34:00.350 it is famous and it's phenomenal and it's really original 1794 01:34:00.409 --> 01:34:02.779 and creepy. And one of the things I loved is 1795 01:34:02.819 --> 01:34:04.939 like this is– what is it, like 25 or something 1796 01:34:04.960 --> 01:34:05.239 like that? 1797 01:34:06.439 --> 01:34:06.720 Yeah. 1798 01:34:07.420 --> 01:34:08.460 I think he's 25 years old. 1799 01:34:08.520 --> 01:34:08.800 Yeah. 1800 01:34:09.000 --> 01:34:11.659 Who, you know, had done a bunch of YouTube stuff. 1801 01:34:11.680 --> 01:34:15.340 I love it. It's a complete accident. Huge hit. 1802 01:34:15.439 --> 01:34:18.430 Has this amazing idea. And you got these people who 1803 01:34:18.729 --> 01:34:21.689 they're relatively unknown, but really talented. 1804 01:34:21.729 --> 01:34:23.090 We're craving that. Yes. 1805 01:34:23.409 --> 01:34:23.729 Yes. 1806 01:34:23.810 --> 01:34:26.710 We don't want the formula. Right. We never have wanted 1807 01:34:26.729 --> 01:34:29.369 the formula. And it's so maddening to try to set 1808 01:34:29.430 --> 01:34:32.630 a movie up right now in Hollywood because what they 1809 01:34:32.670 --> 01:34:37.600 want is they want... Someone, an actor that's worth $ 20 1810 01:34:37.000 --> 01:34:40.220 million and they'll give you $ 10 million to do the film. 1811 01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:43.060 You get the guy that, that they normally would have 1812 01:34:43.100 --> 01:34:46.229 to pay $ 20 million and you get him to do 1813 01:34:46.239 --> 01:34:49.829 your film for, you know, 300,000, you got a film. 1814 01:34:52.090 --> 01:34:52.449 Good luck. 1815 01:34:52.489 --> 01:34:53.869 There's no gamblers anymore. 1816 01:34:54.069 --> 01:34:54.430 That's crazy. 1817 01:34:54.449 --> 01:34:56.609 There's no risk takers. When I was coming up, you know, 1818 01:34:56.630 --> 01:34:59.250 you had these guys that like, actually Joe, you know, 1819 01:34:59.390 --> 01:35:01.369 Joe Roth gave me the money to do cradle will 1820 01:35:01.409 --> 01:35:05.829 rock this, It was basically like, here you go, kid. 1821 01:35:06.829 --> 01:35:07.119 Do it. 1822 01:35:08.130 --> 01:35:10.710 I'm like, really? I get to do this? I don't 1823 01:35:10.789 --> 01:35:14.930 wound up with final cut and everything. They used to 1824 01:35:14.989 --> 01:35:18.810 do that. They used to invest in the risk, right? 1825 01:35:19.430 --> 01:35:24.090 Because only will the risk produce something genuine and new 1826 01:35:24.170 --> 01:35:29.029 and fresh. If you don't gamble– you're, and you're, you're 1827 01:35:29.149 --> 01:35:33.090 measured and you're on a formula and you got your stars. 1828 01:35:33.149 --> 01:35:37.180 It's going to, the audience is going to know it. Yep. They, they, 1829 01:35:37.340 --> 01:35:40.300 they know it's, Oh, this is prepackaged and pre-programmed for 1830 01:35:40.399 --> 01:35:42.789 my demographic. Yeah. And I kind of resent it. 1831 01:35:42.939 --> 01:35:43.140 Yeah. 1832 01:35:43.539 --> 01:35:48.560 You know, whereas something like that obsession is like coming 1833 01:35:48.600 --> 01:35:52.439 out of left field. No one is predicting it, programming it. 1834 01:35:53.239 --> 01:35:57.539 It's just an accident and people love it. Yeah. That's what, 1835 01:35:58.119 --> 01:36:01.479 It's exciting about– it's like when you're trying a new 1836 01:36:02.819 --> 01:36:05.470 material in a club and you're like, I don't know 1837 01:36:05.510 --> 01:36:07.210 if this is going to work, but I'm going to 1838 01:36:07.229 --> 01:36:11.149 fucking do it. And it gets the laugh. That thrill 1839 01:36:11.930 --> 01:36:15.130 is what it's all about, right? That's the moment where 1840 01:36:15.149 --> 01:36:18.390 you go, I gambled and it paid off. 1841 01:36:18.569 --> 01:36:18.810 Right. 1842 01:36:19.109 --> 01:36:22.350 Yeah. That's– I don't know how much we have that 1843 01:36:22.430 --> 01:36:25.189 experience anymore in Hollywood. 1844 01:36:25.619 --> 01:36:28.199 Do you think it's just because of the extreme cost 1845 01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:31.489 that's involved? I mean just to promote a film, like 1846 01:36:31.550 --> 01:36:33.289 if you have a film and it's got a budget, 1847 01:36:33.409 --> 01:36:36.430 like especially– I think is that– it's probably why so 1848 01:36:36.449 --> 01:36:39.649 many superhero movies get greenlit, right? Because it's one of 1849 01:36:39.670 --> 01:36:42.810 the only gambles. Like if you're gambling on an Avengers movie, 1850 01:36:42.890 --> 01:36:45.149 like you can't miss. Get the Hulk to smash a 1851 01:36:45.180 --> 01:36:48.020 bunch of shit. Captain America comes in. You're good. 1852 01:36:48.420 --> 01:36:48.819 You're good. 1853 01:36:49.359 --> 01:36:51.460 You're going to make your money back. And so you 1854 01:36:51.979 --> 01:36:55.390 kind of have to– you know, like if you're a 1855 01:36:55.449 --> 01:36:57.680 money person, if you're not a creative person, you're just 1856 01:36:57.739 --> 01:37:00.020 a money person who happens to be in the movie business, 1857 01:37:00.060 --> 01:37:02.420 which I'm sure a lot of them are. They're just 1858 01:37:02.479 --> 01:37:04.300 looking at it as a return on investment. 1859 01:37:04.859 --> 01:37:08.659 Yeah. But I, you know, that's always been that way 1860 01:37:08.699 --> 01:37:12.529 to some degree, but, um, I don't know. I don't 1861 01:37:12.550 --> 01:37:18.270 know why it became such a risk to try new stuff. Um, 1862 01:37:19.270 --> 01:37:21.779 I mean, because they're not putting that much money into it. 1863 01:37:21.800 --> 01:37:26.199 You know, those Marvel movies, they're costing $ 250 million, $ 200 1864 01:37:25.739 --> 01:37:29.960 million to produce. Right. There's independent filmmakers that are proven 1865 01:37:30.020 --> 01:37:34.550 independent filmmakers that are asking for like $ 5. 1866 01:37:32.909 --> 01:37:34.329 Million, $ 4. 1867 01:37:33.609 --> 01:37:36.689 Million to do a film. So if they put some 1868 01:37:36.750 --> 01:37:40.649 advertisement in it, maybe it's going to cost them $ 14 million, 1869 01:37:40.670 --> 01:37:44.699 all told. And, you know, can they make that back? 1870 01:37:44.779 --> 01:37:47.899 Is the marketplace going to? Support that. Who knows? I 1871 01:37:48.380 --> 01:37:52.270 wouldn't want to be an investor, but I also, you know, 1872 01:37:52.279 --> 01:37:59.670 I have a nostalgia for a time when Robert Altman 1873 01:37:59.710 --> 01:38:02.909 could make a film, you know. Yeah. And it could 1874 01:38:03.029 --> 01:38:05.689 just blow people's minds. And then the next film he made, 1875 01:38:06.310 --> 01:38:08.380 you know, as he would gleefully tell you, they're going 1876 01:38:08.399 --> 01:38:12.779 to hate this one, you know. And I love that, 1877 01:38:13.100 --> 01:38:16.270 you know, that. And people would either love it or 1878 01:38:16.329 --> 01:38:18.760 hate it, but he was making his own films. He 1879 01:38:18.800 --> 01:38:22.100 was making distinctive films that were him. 1880 01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:27.670 Is it more difficult or easier to get a film 1881 01:38:27.750 --> 01:38:29.789 released today if you make it yourself? 1882 01:38:32.199 --> 01:38:35.319 Because you don't have distribution, really. So, you know, I 1883 01:38:36.079 --> 01:38:39.260 suppose in the future there's going to be some form 1884 01:38:39.279 --> 01:38:44.140 of distribution that will be more egalitarian. But right now 1885 01:38:44.680 --> 01:38:45.739 it's a huge risk. 1886 01:38:45.859 --> 01:38:48.890 How does distribution work? Like say if you decided You're 1887 01:38:48.909 --> 01:38:50.930 going to get a bunch of investors together and put 1888 01:38:50.949 --> 01:38:53.750 together a film. Do you have to get distribution before 1889 01:38:53.810 --> 01:38:55.369 you even start producing? 1890 01:38:55.409 --> 01:38:58.279 Yes. You have to have foreign sales in place. 1891 01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:00.859 Whoa. Foreign sales. 1892 01:39:01.380 --> 01:39:06.920 Yeah. Like I think basically the economic model right now 1893 01:39:07.119 --> 01:39:11.069 is the investors want to be paid and not be 1894 01:39:11.130 --> 01:39:14.510 losing money by the time they start shooting. In other words, 1895 01:39:14.550 --> 01:39:16.869 they're not going to lose money. They've already sold it 1896 01:39:17.029 --> 01:39:21.960 for more. Then they've paid. And so there's really no risk, 1897 01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:28.689 no gamble. Then if the movie catches fire at a 1898 01:39:28.710 --> 01:39:31.489 film festival, then they'll put the money into advertising. If 1899 01:39:31.529 --> 01:39:34.710 it doesn't catch fire at a film festival or with critics, 1900 01:39:35.229 --> 01:39:37.449 they'll just, you know, okay, I already made my money. 1901 01:39:37.590 --> 01:39:41.590 You know, we'll just sell it to, you know, DVDs, whatever. 1902 01:39:41.609 --> 01:39:43.800 God, what a fucking shitty environment to create something. 1903 01:39:43.810 --> 01:39:47.310 It's hard. It's hard. Yeah, my gal's struggling with that 1904 01:39:47.350 --> 01:39:49.970 right now. I checked out of that hotel a while back. 1905 01:39:50.069 --> 01:39:53.369 I was like, I don't want my heart broken like that. 1906 01:39:53.630 --> 01:39:56.050 So I've just been doing things on my own. I've 1907 01:39:56.069 --> 01:39:59.770 been producing things on my own, shooting them, editing them. 1908 01:40:00.310 --> 01:40:02.329 That's one of the reasons I wanted to do this 1909 01:40:02.710 --> 01:40:05.909 website was because I've got all this stuff that is 1910 01:40:06.090 --> 01:40:09.739 unreleased and– Just going to start releasing it slowly. 1911 01:40:10.140 --> 01:40:12.020 Is that more satisfying to do it that way? 1912 01:40:12.039 --> 01:40:14.890 No, it's more satisfying to go to Cannes and win 1913 01:40:14.930 --> 01:40:19.829 Best Actor. I mean it's much more satisfying when you 1914 01:40:19.850 --> 01:40:22.949 have a machine behind you that's supporting it. It's great. 1915 01:40:23.409 --> 01:40:26.810 Mystic River, that kind of like you have Warner Brothers 1916 01:40:26.850 --> 01:40:29.439 like we love this film. We're going to make sure 1917 01:40:29.449 --> 01:40:31.659 that people see it. That's what you need. You need 1918 01:40:31.739 --> 01:40:36.029 your sponsors that get it, that want people to see it, 1919 01:40:36.140 --> 01:40:38.439 that see the value of it. And they'll put money 1920 01:40:38.460 --> 01:40:41.899 into advertising and that's a great experience to be in. 1921 01:40:42.300 --> 01:40:46.119 The other thing is just pretty lonely. It's just you're 1922 01:40:46.159 --> 01:40:49.100 trying your best. I was in three movies after I 1923 01:40:50.340 --> 01:40:54.100 won the Oscar for Mystic River that I've considered three 1924 01:40:54.119 --> 01:40:56.010 of the best movies in my career. But nobody has 1925 01:40:56.020 --> 01:41:00.649 seen them. Secret Life of Words, Code 46 and Catch 1926 01:41:01.130 --> 01:41:06.439 a Fire. And they're all excellent movies. But they came 1927 01:41:06.479 --> 01:41:11.800 at a time where the producers or the people that 1928 01:41:11.840 --> 01:41:15.789 were distributing them didn't really want to risk the money 1929 01:41:15.829 --> 01:41:16.329 that it would take. 1930 01:41:16.609 --> 01:41:19.069 See, that's where there's a room for like a Siskel 1931 01:41:19.109 --> 01:41:22.810 and Ebert type character today that can find those films 1932 01:41:22.989 --> 01:41:25.649 and say, hey, this one slipped under the radar. But 1933 01:41:25.689 --> 01:41:28.720 this is really– an actual person that's a giant movie 1934 01:41:28.760 --> 01:41:32.020 buff that can go back and watch these and comment 1935 01:41:32.159 --> 01:41:36.329 on them. And we don't really– Back then, Siskel and 1936 01:41:36.409 --> 01:41:38.800 Ebert were the guys. If they gave you two thumbs down, 1937 01:41:38.840 --> 01:41:39.539 you were fucked. 1938 01:41:39.600 --> 01:41:39.779 Yeah. 1939 01:41:40.119 --> 01:41:40.720 You were fucked. 1940 01:41:40.760 --> 01:41:40.979 Yeah. 1941 01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:43.619 And, you know, they were very catty with each other. 1942 01:41:43.640 --> 01:41:46.800 It was a fun thing. It's fun to watch the outtakes, 1943 01:41:47.140 --> 01:41:48.880 how much those guys actually didn't get along. 1944 01:41:49.460 --> 01:41:53.449 Yeah. Yeah. I was lucky with them. They gave me 1945 01:41:53.489 --> 01:41:54.010 great reviews. 1946 01:41:54.189 --> 01:41:55.609 It was good. They had good taste. 1947 01:41:56.010 --> 01:41:58.029 Yeah. They did. And they loved film. 1948 01:41:58.229 --> 01:42:01.810 Yes. They clearly loved film and they loved all aspects 1949 01:42:01.890 --> 01:42:03.750 of it and they would talk about it The great 1950 01:42:03.789 --> 01:42:08.109 understanding and great passion, the subtleties of the performances and 1951 01:42:08.220 --> 01:42:10.640 what really– and how it was put together. Even they 1952 01:42:10.659 --> 01:42:12.819 talk about the score. Yeah. They loved it. 1953 01:42:12.840 --> 01:42:16.920 And they'd spend like 15 minutes on each film too, 1954 01:42:17.000 --> 01:42:19.300 which was– never happened. 1955 01:42:19.579 --> 01:42:22.500 And it was a hugely successful show, which is like 1956 01:42:22.699 --> 01:42:25.800 really confusing why there's not something like that today. 1957 01:42:25.819 --> 01:42:26.439 Yeah. Yeah. 1958 01:42:26.619 --> 01:42:30.159 Because there's so much content. Today, if you were like– 1959 01:42:30.270 --> 01:42:32.569 it's not like what's out in the movies right now. 1960 01:42:32.890 --> 01:42:36.670 Like today, fucking there's a million shows that are streaming. 1961 01:42:36.750 --> 01:42:39.670 There's so much shit going on. There's so much content 1962 01:42:39.949 --> 01:42:44.590 that if you had a trusted source, a person who's 1963 01:42:44.609 --> 01:42:48.529 like a real good critic of stuff, really– not even 1964 01:42:48.560 --> 01:42:51.180 a critic. An appreciator is a better word. Like someone 1965 01:42:51.199 --> 01:42:55.029 who's a real passionate enthusiast of film and of– you know, 1966 01:42:55.069 --> 01:42:58.369 different creative works. They could just talk about something and 1967 01:42:58.390 --> 01:42:59.369 recommend stuff. 1968 01:42:59.829 --> 01:43:03.560 Yeah. But then there's the burnout of that too. Like, 1969 01:43:03.680 --> 01:43:05.300 you know, I would talk to some of these guys 1970 01:43:05.359 --> 01:43:07.920 and they'd be like, you know, for every one of 1971 01:43:07.960 --> 01:43:12.279 those good films, we have to see like 10 dreck, 1972 01:43:12.819 --> 01:43:17.619 you know, and the time spent watching these things kind 1973 01:43:17.640 --> 01:43:22.420 of mind numbingly painful for some of these people, you know, 1974 01:43:22.479 --> 01:43:26.090 imagine having to, you know, Weed through the muck to 1975 01:43:26.130 --> 01:43:26.689 get to the gems. 1976 01:43:26.729 --> 01:43:28.670 I guess. But can't you just walk out of the film? 1977 01:43:29.670 --> 01:43:31.350 Just like you walk out of a movie theater and 1978 01:43:31.369 --> 01:43:33.369 you're like, this movie sucks. I've done that a few times. 1979 01:43:33.430 --> 01:43:34.430 Me too. 1980 01:43:34.470 --> 01:43:35.710 It's a terrible place to be. 1981 01:43:35.729 --> 01:43:35.989 Me too. 1982 01:43:36.029 --> 01:43:37.210 You're like, I can't believe I'm leaving. 1983 01:43:37.250 --> 01:43:39.930 Hard to do in the live theater though because when 1984 01:43:39.949 --> 01:43:41.090 they know you're there. Right. 1985 01:43:41.149 --> 01:43:44.979 That's different. But if you're watching it at home, I 1986 01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:47.619 mean it's really what you're trying to do. You want 1987 01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:48.720 to be the one of the person that says, this 1988 01:43:48.739 --> 01:43:50.720 is the worst fucking movie I've ever seen in my life. 1989 01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:52.909 And that's what you're doing. But if you want to 1990 01:43:52.930 --> 01:43:55.250 be a person who's just an enthusiast of great stuff 1991 01:43:55.430 --> 01:43:57.569 and just keep it on the positive side, there's so 1992 01:43:57.710 --> 01:44:01.350 much great stuff to review and so many great things 1993 01:44:01.390 --> 01:44:04.250 from the past that people haven't seen before that you 1994 01:44:04.310 --> 01:44:06.979 could sort of turn people on to. 1995 01:44:07.310 --> 01:44:09.520 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that would be great. 1996 01:44:09.609 --> 01:44:11.380 It's kind of weird that there's not someone like that 1997 01:44:11.420 --> 01:44:11.739 right now. 1998 01:44:11.760 --> 01:44:15.000 It is weird. It is weird. I think maybe you 1999 01:44:15.039 --> 01:44:16.840 should do that, produce that. 2000 01:44:16.859 --> 01:44:17.300 No, I'm busy. 2001 01:44:17.319 --> 01:44:17.880 You should produce that. 2002 01:44:19.880 --> 01:44:22.279 But I mean it just doesn't even make sense that 2003 01:44:22.340 --> 01:44:27.060 there's so many different– like there's so much content but 2004 01:44:27.079 --> 01:44:29.550 yet there's not that one thing that was a really 2005 01:44:29.609 --> 01:44:31.550 big part of the movie experience when we were younger. 2006 01:44:31.829 --> 01:44:36.829 Yeah. And the– that idea that there's some exciting movie 2007 01:44:36.869 --> 01:44:38.649 coming out on Friday and we're going to go to it. 2008 01:44:38.689 --> 01:44:40.270 Yeah, it was huge. Yeah. 2009 01:44:40.670 --> 01:44:41.569 That was huge. Yeah. 2010 01:44:41.750 --> 01:44:43.989 And a movie was coming out. Like I guess you 2011 01:44:44.010 --> 01:44:45.220 have it right now with The Odyssey. 2012 01:44:45.229 --> 01:44:45.340 Yeah. 2013 01:44:45.720 --> 01:44:47.640 Like a lot of people are– it's like one of 2014 01:44:47.680 --> 01:44:50.119 those movies that's so big people are scrambling to go 2015 01:44:50.159 --> 01:44:52.279 see it in the movie theaters and it's getting people 2016 01:44:52.300 --> 01:44:55.460 excited about it. Along with a lot of the culture 2017 01:44:55.500 --> 01:44:58.560 war controversies that everybody that I know that's seen– I 2018 01:44:58.579 --> 01:45:00.699 haven't seen it yet. It says fucking throw all that away. 2019 01:45:00.819 --> 01:45:01.579 The movie is amazing. 2020 01:45:01.819 --> 01:45:03.119 That's what I hear. Yeah. Yeah. 2021 01:45:03.659 --> 01:45:06.119 They're just like– it's almost like a good way to 2022 01:45:06.220 --> 01:45:10.579 bait people into getting really confrontational about it. Aren't you 2023 01:45:10.619 --> 01:45:13.689 getting tired of that though? Oh, yeah. Real tired of it. Yeah. 2024 01:45:13.779 --> 01:45:16.970 Like– It's not correct. 2025 01:45:17.350 --> 01:45:17.949 Yeah. 2026 01:45:18.189 --> 01:45:21.010 It's just– I'm tired of it from both sides. I 2027 01:45:21.050 --> 01:45:23.210 don't want to hear judgment. 2028 01:45:23.810 --> 01:45:24.109 Right. 2029 01:45:24.529 --> 01:45:29.600 I just– help me. I don't want to be in 2030 01:45:29.640 --> 01:45:33.020 the middle of this fight constantly. It's the only– I 2031 01:45:33.720 --> 01:45:37.500 feel like this is, again, what we were talking about before. 2032 01:45:37.520 --> 01:45:40.779 It's the– as long as we're fighting with each other. Yeah. 2033 01:45:40.979 --> 01:45:42.729 And then we're fighting about films that are coming out. 2034 01:45:42.739 --> 01:45:43.640 I was like, come on, guys. 2035 01:45:43.819 --> 01:45:44.220 It's so stupid. 2036 01:45:44.239 --> 01:45:45.199 Calm down. Calm down. 2037 01:45:45.470 --> 01:45:48.689 Like I don't care. It's just– is it entertaining? Is 2038 01:45:48.729 --> 01:45:51.270 it good? It doesn't have to be correct. It doesn't 2039 01:45:51.310 --> 01:45:53.529 mean anything to me. There's never been a time in 2040 01:45:53.569 --> 01:45:55.369 history where correct was important to me. 2041 01:45:55.810 --> 01:45:57.710 Yeah, or indicative of great art. 2042 01:45:57.930 --> 01:46:00.890 Right. It's just make it good and by all accounts, 2043 01:46:00.970 --> 01:46:02.550 everyone that I know that's seen the movie says it's 2044 01:46:02.649 --> 01:46:04.880 fucking incredible. I'm going to try to see it soon. 2045 01:46:05.260 --> 01:46:08.899 But the culture war part of it is like at 2046 01:46:08.939 --> 01:46:11.680 the very least, it got people excited to see it. Yeah. 2047 01:46:11.880 --> 01:46:13.199 And either to hate it or– but I know a 2048 01:46:13.220 --> 01:46:15.319 lot of people that wanted to go hate it because 2049 01:46:15.340 --> 01:46:19.899 they were upset. But Elliot Page played this person. 2050 01:46:19.979 --> 01:46:21.000 I understand that. 2051 01:46:21.060 --> 01:46:24.699 Helen of Troy is a black lady. Like who fucking cares? 2052 01:46:24.720 --> 01:46:27.380 It doesn't matter. Not only that, it's a made-up story. 2053 01:46:29.260 --> 01:46:32.500 Exactly. It's a myth to begin with. 2054 01:46:32.539 --> 01:46:36.520 Yeah. It apparently might actually be based on a real 2055 01:46:36.560 --> 01:46:39.159 place though. They used to think that Troy was not 2056 01:46:39.239 --> 01:46:42.829 a real place and then they discovered it. I think 2057 01:46:42.850 --> 01:46:46.810 that was– was it in the 70s? When did they 2058 01:46:46.869 --> 01:46:49.729 discover Troy? Because they used to think that it was 2059 01:46:49.789 --> 01:46:52.779 completely mythical, that it was just fiction, a work of fiction. 2060 01:46:52.819 --> 01:46:54.460 And then they found the actual real city. 2061 01:46:55.020 --> 01:46:55.739 And they're like, oh. 2062 01:46:56.380 --> 01:47:00.079 Like that's the weird thing about really old stories is 2063 01:47:00.119 --> 01:47:03.239 that like there's so– it's so ambiguous as to what 2064 01:47:03.279 --> 01:47:05.659 was the root– what was the origin of the story? 2065 01:47:05.989 --> 01:47:07.989 Was this a real event? Have you ever. 2066 01:47:07.890 --> 01:47:11.829 Stood on the stage of an old Roman amphitheater? Yes. 2067 01:47:12.050 --> 01:47:12.989 That's something else. 2068 01:47:13.010 --> 01:47:14.130 Yeah, it's wild. 2069 01:47:14.210 --> 01:47:14.430 Yeah. 2070 01:47:14.590 --> 01:47:15.149 Yeah. 2071 01:47:15.810 --> 01:47:19.899 There's history in those stones. And, you know, we were 2072 01:47:19.939 --> 01:47:22.739 doing a show over in Lyon, France, in one of 2073 01:47:22.779 --> 01:47:28.199 those theaters. And we found something out because we were 2074 01:47:28.239 --> 01:47:31.039 doing rehearsal. And when you're talking to the other actor 2075 01:47:31.060 --> 01:47:33.250 like this, You can't hear it out there at all. 2076 01:47:34.470 --> 01:47:37.350 And so it told us that what they were doing 2077 01:47:37.569 --> 01:47:40.390 was this, you know, back in the old days. They 2078 01:47:40.489 --> 01:47:42.470 had to perform out because you wouldn't be able to 2079 01:47:42.529 --> 01:47:45.729 hear if you were doing realistically talking to someone making 2080 01:47:45.789 --> 01:47:46.310 eye contact. 2081 01:47:46.409 --> 01:47:49.909 That's what's weird about early film is that early film 2082 01:47:49.949 --> 01:47:52.710 you have stage actors who are used to doing it 2083 01:47:52.750 --> 01:47:57.369 with no microphones projecting now doing it on film. So 2084 01:47:57.409 --> 01:48:00.569 it looks odd. It's like there was this transitionary period 2085 01:48:00.630 --> 01:48:05.180 and then Brando came along and Brando just did it real. 2086 01:48:05.239 --> 01:48:07.000 And everybody's like, what the fuck is he doing? 2087 01:48:07.420 --> 01:48:07.659 Yeah. 2088 01:48:07.720 --> 01:48:09.760 Like he's acting like a real person. This is crazy. 2089 01:48:09.939 --> 01:48:12.199 Yeah. Montgomery cliff too. 2090 01:48:12.239 --> 01:48:12.779 Yeah. 2091 01:48:14.100 --> 01:48:18.720 That was a huge step forward for all of us. Yeah. 2092 01:48:19.579 --> 01:48:22.380 To take the onus off the theatrical and get more 2093 01:48:22.420 --> 01:48:24.060 into the real. 2094 01:48:24.500 --> 01:48:26.750 And again, if you really think about it, not a 2095 01:48:26.789 --> 01:48:32.210 whole lot of time between the invention of film and 2096 01:48:32.310 --> 01:48:35.260 then movie stars and all these things happening. Like this 2097 01:48:35.300 --> 01:48:39.460 is a completely new cultural thing. Like from the early, 2098 01:48:39.600 --> 01:48:42.640 like what was the first film? Like the first film 2099 01:48:42.680 --> 01:48:46.260 with sound. What year was that? 2100 01:48:46.579 --> 01:48:46.939 1920s. 2101 01:48:47.550 --> 01:48:53.369 Wow. So think of that. So you have from 27 2102 01:48:53.369 --> 01:48:55.609 and then just a few decades later, you have on 2103 01:48:55.649 --> 01:48:59.270 the waterfront, you have the hustler, you have these, these 2104 01:48:59.310 --> 01:49:03.430 incredible movies that, Do they just have to figure out 2105 01:49:03.649 --> 01:49:07.010 on the fly how to– Citizen Kane. They have to 2106 01:49:07.050 --> 01:49:08.909 figure out on the fly how to do this. 2107 01:49:09.970 --> 01:49:13.430 But also the– if you ever watch the first films, 2108 01:49:13.449 --> 01:49:16.569 like the silent films and the ability to tell a 2109 01:49:16.569 --> 01:49:20.300 story without words, which was a whole other talent. I 2110 01:49:20.300 --> 01:49:26.960 mean you watch those Chaplin films. That man was insanely talented. 2111 01:49:27.239 --> 01:49:30.279 Well, Nosferatu. The original Nosferatu? 2112 01:49:30.340 --> 01:49:30.899 I love that film. 2113 01:49:30.960 --> 01:49:33.119 I saw that at a public library in San Francisco 2114 01:49:33.140 --> 01:49:35.800 when I was a kid. They had a night where 2115 01:49:35.819 --> 01:49:37.159 they played it, and I went to see it. I 2116 01:49:37.199 --> 01:49:38.399 was like, this is nuts. 2117 01:49:38.619 --> 01:49:39.079 Incredible. 2118 01:49:39.359 --> 01:49:41.689 Incredible film. What year was that film? 2119 01:49:41.689 --> 01:49:42.909 1922. 1922. 2120 01:49:42.909 --> 01:49:44.930 And then Metropolis. 2121 01:49:44.850 --> 01:49:46.170 Was a little bit. 2122 01:49:46.210 --> 01:49:48.510 Oh, yeah. That's a crazy movie. 2123 01:49:48.729 --> 01:49:50.489 Yeah. Yeah. I love that old stuff. 2124 01:49:50.510 --> 01:49:53.250 Oh, that's great. Those movies are great. And at the time, 2125 01:49:53.369 --> 01:49:55.920 you've got to imagine– Like the experience of going to 2126 01:49:55.960 --> 01:49:58.159 see that where no one had seen movies before. This 2127 01:49:58.220 --> 01:49:59.159 is like a new thing. 2128 01:49:59.279 --> 01:49:59.560 Yeah. 2129 01:49:59.600 --> 01:50:02.350 Seeing things moving around on a giant screen like this 2130 01:50:02.430 --> 01:50:03.270 is mad. 2131 01:50:03.930 --> 01:50:06.829 Alchemy. Yeah. Crazy magic. Satan. 2132 01:50:07.270 --> 01:50:09.399 And you had to read what they were saying to 2133 01:50:09.409 --> 01:50:12.100 each other on the screen. Yeah. And then music would play. 2134 01:50:12.119 --> 01:50:14.000 They had a guy with an organ that was playing 2135 01:50:14.060 --> 01:50:15.199 music along with it. 2136 01:50:15.439 --> 01:50:17.520 What? Yeah. Super cool. 2137 01:50:17.779 --> 01:50:18.539 It is super cool. 2138 01:50:18.600 --> 01:50:20.970 I would love to. If you could time travel and 2139 01:50:21.010 --> 01:50:25.510 go to one of those movie theaters back there. There 2140 01:50:25.550 --> 01:50:25.949 he is. 2141 01:50:26.630 --> 01:50:29.890 I mean, one of the best vampire movies of all time, too. 2142 01:50:29.970 --> 01:50:36.340 And the lighting is just so good. German expressionist. Did 2143 01:50:36.399 --> 01:50:39.819 you ever see M? Peter Lorre. 2144 01:50:42.539 --> 01:50:43.109 It's just M? 2145 01:50:43.159 --> 01:50:44.239 It's called M, yeah. 2146 01:50:44.279 --> 01:50:44.869 The letter M? 2147 01:50:45.649 --> 01:50:48.029 Isn't it? 1931. Yeah, 1931. 2148 01:50:48.010 --> 01:50:48.750 No, I never saw it. 2149 01:50:48.770 --> 01:50:49.170 It's really good. 2150 01:50:49.289 --> 01:50:50.170 What is it? What's it about? 2151 01:50:50.770 --> 01:50:56.390 About a murderer that's stalking a bunch of people. Yeah, 2152 01:50:56.550 --> 01:51:00.960 I was a huge fan of that whole genre of filmmaking. 2153 01:51:00.979 --> 01:51:04.399 Well, there's something so exciting about it because when you 2154 01:51:04.520 --> 01:51:07.520 limit the sensory input, like you have to read the 2155 01:51:07.600 --> 01:51:11.520 words and it's all black and white and there's music playing. 2156 01:51:11.560 --> 01:51:14.310 It's like it's a totally different thing that you're taking in. 2157 01:51:14.430 --> 01:51:14.659 Yeah, yeah. 2158 01:51:14.949 --> 01:51:18.310 You know, it's like it's almost like half reading, half watching. 2159 01:51:18.470 --> 01:51:18.850 Yeah. 2160 01:51:19.010 --> 01:51:22.109 You know, like you're reading like you don't hear their voices. 2161 01:51:22.130 --> 01:51:24.069 You have to create their voices in your head. Yeah. 2162 01:51:24.090 --> 01:51:26.689 And you're feeling in a different way because of the 2163 01:51:26.789 --> 01:51:29.069 you know, it's black and white. So it's not real, 2164 01:51:29.149 --> 01:51:34.430 but it is real. And so, yeah, it's it's it's 2165 01:51:34.449 --> 01:51:37.989 a great, great form. We should have more of those. 2166 01:51:38.439 --> 01:51:40.140 It's just hard to imagine that this is only 100 2167 01:51:40.140 --> 01:51:44.050 years old. That from there to now, this is 100 years. 2168 01:51:44.060 --> 01:51:45.569 That's a blink of an eye. 2169 01:51:45.649 --> 01:51:45.850 Yeah. 2170 01:51:46.149 --> 01:51:49.149 And when you think about human history, like when we 2171 01:51:49.189 --> 01:51:51.869 think about like the 1500s versus the 1600s, we kind 2172 01:51:52.050 --> 01:51:54.189 of think it's basically the same. If you're born in 2173 01:51:54.189 --> 01:51:57.109 1520 or 1620, it's fucking exactly the same. 2174 01:51:57.289 --> 01:51:57.510 Right. 2175 01:51:57.810 --> 01:52:00.409 But if you're born in 1920 or 2020, it's a 2176 01:52:00.510 --> 01:52:02.500 fucking completely different world you're living in. 2177 01:52:02.529 --> 01:52:02.810 Huge. 2178 01:52:02.810 --> 01:52:04.869 1920, you have Nosferatu. 2026, you have the Odyssey. Right. 2179 01:52:09.659 --> 01:52:12.159 You have Dune. You have these insane films. 2180 01:52:12.380 --> 01:52:16.000 Right. Not to mention the technology you personally possess. 2181 01:52:16.140 --> 01:52:17.079 Yes. Right. 2182 01:52:17.239 --> 01:52:17.899 In your pocket. 2183 01:52:18.119 --> 01:52:20.699 Right. Any moment in time, you could stream a movie. 2184 01:52:20.960 --> 01:52:22.869 I could see Nosferatu right now on here. Right. 2185 01:52:23.270 --> 01:52:25.829 Yeah. Or the Robert Eggers one, the new one, which 2186 01:52:25.850 --> 01:52:30.210 is fucking fantastic. But it's just instantaneous. Everything's instantaneous and 2187 01:52:30.250 --> 01:52:32.970 everything's right there for you. So it's great in that 2188 01:52:33.069 --> 01:52:36.220 sense that you will be entertained. There's something to watch 2189 01:52:36.279 --> 01:52:36.859 no matter what. 2190 01:52:37.619 --> 01:52:37.779 But. 2191 01:52:39.439 --> 01:52:44.020 You're missing something on the specialness of having to go 2192 01:52:44.199 --> 01:52:46.310 out and go to a place, even go to a 2193 01:52:46.430 --> 01:52:51.289 video store and go get it. There's something missing. 2194 01:52:52.390 --> 01:52:55.430 I think that that's really at the core of it 2195 01:52:55.449 --> 01:52:59.840 though is the– I've decided this is what I'm going 2196 01:52:59.880 --> 01:53:05.359 to do today, the whole thing, like pre-this. I am 2197 01:53:05.520 --> 01:53:09.409 going to be an active participant in my life. It's 2198 01:53:09.470 --> 01:53:11.710 when I first moved to L.A. that I first understood 2199 01:53:11.750 --> 01:53:17.199 this in the late 70s. L.A., as opposed to New 2200 01:53:17.220 --> 01:53:19.680 York where I grew up, L.A., you have to make 2201 01:53:19.739 --> 01:53:23.579 a choice to find your fun. New York, a little 2202 01:53:23.600 --> 01:53:26.800 drop in your lap, right? If you walk down the street, 2203 01:53:27.020 --> 01:53:30.399 something will present itself. But in L.A., when I first 2204 01:53:30.640 --> 01:53:33.159 moved out there, I realized you got to drive there. 2205 01:53:33.850 --> 01:53:36.569 You got to drive and find your fun. And you 2206 01:53:36.609 --> 01:53:40.149 have to be an active participant in your life. cultural life. 2207 01:53:41.729 --> 01:53:44.270 And once I understood that about L.A., I could understand 2208 01:53:44.649 --> 01:53:47.539 how to live there. It was at first very frustrating 2209 01:53:47.560 --> 01:53:51.220 because it was very boring, right? It wasn't happening, you know, 2210 01:53:51.420 --> 01:53:53.079 when I walked out on the street. There was no 2211 01:53:53.100 --> 01:53:55.560 street to walk out on. It was just too big. 2212 01:53:56.479 --> 01:54:03.409 But it's that kind of– I have chosen this weekend 2213 01:54:04.170 --> 01:54:07.949 to drive 30 minutes in that direction to see this 2214 01:54:08.029 --> 01:54:12.010 punk rock band. And I will be an active participant 2215 01:54:12.060 --> 01:54:16.449 in that. And once you do that, you're liberated. Then 2216 01:54:16.470 --> 01:54:20.409 you know anything is possible. But now it's like I 2217 01:54:20.430 --> 01:54:21.829 want it in my backyard. 2218 01:54:22.369 --> 01:54:26.060 Not only that. Now that thing interrupts you while you're 2219 01:54:26.100 --> 01:54:29.380 taking something else in. Right. It constantly wants your attention. 2220 01:54:29.439 --> 01:54:32.859 It's like a puppy. It's like, hey, hey, hey. 2221 01:54:33.220 --> 01:54:34.939 Watch the movie. I want to be fed. Yeah. 2222 01:54:35.159 --> 01:54:39.319 It's constantly– demanding your attention or at least enticing you 2223 01:54:39.340 --> 01:54:42.010 to take a look at it, vibrating in your pocket, 2224 01:54:42.779 --> 01:54:43.119 you know? 2225 01:54:43.439 --> 01:54:47.399 Yeah. Have you ever thought about trashing it? 2226 01:54:49.350 --> 01:54:51.949 I've gotten off social media for weeks at a time. 2227 01:54:52.270 --> 01:54:55.090 I've done that. But I need it for work too much. 2228 01:54:55.229 --> 01:54:57.310 I need it for emails. I need to– I can't 2229 01:54:57.789 --> 01:54:59.149 always just be in front of a laptop. 2230 01:54:59.189 --> 01:55:02.409 Do you have a– like a flip phone? 2231 01:55:02.670 --> 01:55:03.590 No. No. 2232 01:55:03.949 --> 01:55:04.880 I'm thinking about getting one. 2233 01:55:05.640 --> 01:55:07.439 I have a computer that I write on that's not 2234 01:55:07.479 --> 01:55:12.439 connected to anything. My writing computer is just a Lenovo ThinkPad. 2235 01:55:12.920 --> 01:55:16.279 I never use it for anything other than writing. If 2236 01:55:16.319 --> 01:55:19.300 I go online, it's just to research something, like ask 2237 01:55:19.340 --> 01:55:20.359 a question like, what is this? 2238 01:55:20.420 --> 01:55:20.920 How does this work? 2239 01:55:21.739 --> 01:55:25.319 I never surf the web. I don't look at any websites. 2240 01:55:25.350 --> 01:55:27.489 I don't do anything with it. And that helps a 2241 01:55:27.550 --> 01:55:31.250 lot for that. But for phones, I have too many 2242 01:55:31.289 --> 01:55:33.430 friends that are sending me funny things. There's always like 2243 01:55:33.470 --> 01:55:35.210 some funny thing and I'm like, all right, I guess 2244 01:55:35.229 --> 01:55:36.270 I'm back on Instagram. 2245 01:55:36.300 --> 01:55:36.760 Check it out. 2246 01:55:36.810 --> 01:55:40.300 Like, oh, Jesus, this is crazy. There's too much coming 2247 01:55:40.399 --> 01:55:43.779 at you. And the problem is if I put it down, 2248 01:55:44.039 --> 01:55:46.960 which I do often for like the whole day, when 2249 01:55:47.000 --> 01:55:50.119 I pick it up, I'll get 70 text messages to 2250 01:55:50.159 --> 01:55:50.520 go through. 2251 01:55:50.550 --> 01:55:51.229 I know. I know. 2252 01:55:51.310 --> 01:55:53.170 And then I don't respond to some and some people 2253 01:55:53.210 --> 01:55:57.149 get mad and they're like, I'm sorry. It's like it's 2254 01:55:57.210 --> 01:55:59.590 too much. Yeah. It's too much coming in. And then 2255 01:55:59.630 --> 01:56:02.850 there's so much. Hey, look at this. Hey, check this out. 2256 01:56:03.029 --> 01:56:05.289 Have you seen this? What do you think about that? 2257 01:56:05.329 --> 01:56:06.289 You think this is real? 2258 01:56:08.250 --> 01:56:11.869 And then the people that you don't respond to can 2259 01:56:11.909 --> 01:56:16.520 oftentimes take the lack of response as basically you saying, 2260 01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:19.359 fuck you. And that's not the case at all. You 2261 01:56:19.399 --> 01:56:22.159 just don't have the time to do it. Right. And 2262 01:56:22.199 --> 01:56:24.319 you read it and you liked it and you smiled 2263 01:56:24.380 --> 01:56:25.800 but you didn't put a smiley on it. 2264 01:56:25.859 --> 01:56:28.180 Right. You have to put a little heart. You got 2265 01:56:28.319 --> 01:56:28.819 to double click it. 2266 01:56:28.840 --> 01:56:33.989 It's a very strange social dynamic. I'm not sure I'm 2267 01:56:34.050 --> 01:56:35.890 very good at it. No. No. 2268 01:56:36.149 --> 01:56:37.149 It's probably a good sign. 2269 01:56:37.750 --> 01:56:37.989 Yeah. 2270 01:56:38.149 --> 01:56:41.649 Yeah. It demands too much. That's the problem. As much 2271 01:56:41.720 --> 01:56:44.539 as it is interesting, if you have a wide social circle, 2272 01:56:45.140 --> 01:56:48.439 it demands too much of your– if you have 100 2273 01:56:48.439 --> 01:56:51.710 units of attention that you have for– use throughout the day. 2274 01:56:51.869 --> 01:56:53.229 It demands too many units. 2275 01:56:53.430 --> 01:56:53.649 Right. 2276 01:56:53.689 --> 01:56:55.130 There's just too much coming at you. 2277 01:56:55.409 --> 01:56:55.609 Yeah. 2278 01:56:55.689 --> 01:56:57.470 And it'll take away from other things that you do. 2279 01:56:57.609 --> 01:56:59.289 And that, that's, that's a real problem. 2280 01:56:59.569 --> 01:56:59.829 Yeah. 2281 01:57:00.930 --> 01:57:01.050 Yeah. 2282 01:57:01.090 --> 01:57:02.369 I like sitting in my garden. 2283 01:57:03.449 --> 01:57:03.989 Is that your thing? 2284 01:57:04.130 --> 01:57:07.449 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a really good, I, I, I've, 2285 01:57:07.649 --> 01:57:10.470 I've been gardening. Yeah. That's, that's the real thing. That's 2286 01:57:10.489 --> 01:57:11.329 my peaceful place. 2287 01:57:11.369 --> 01:57:12.850 That's a real thing. It's real. 2288 01:57:12.869 --> 01:57:13.829 It's dirt. Yeah. 2289 01:57:13.989 --> 01:57:15.859 Real plant grows out. Life comes from it. 2290 01:57:15.890 --> 01:57:18.100 Yep. You can eat stuff from it. 2291 01:57:18.390 --> 01:57:21.060 Yeah. You need stuff to do, right? You need, a 2292 01:57:21.119 --> 01:57:23.659 thing that can take you away from the other things? 2293 01:57:23.779 --> 01:57:28.409 Something to make more beautiful every day. Something to, you know, 2294 01:57:28.970 --> 01:57:34.609 something to care for. It's, you know, whether it's the garden, 2295 01:57:34.729 --> 01:57:37.390 I have a garden in Los Angeles that, you know, 2296 01:57:37.409 --> 01:57:41.029 I grow herbs and I, you know, to walk down 2297 01:57:41.100 --> 01:57:43.720 and put that, those herbs, those fresh herbs in the 2298 01:57:43.859 --> 01:57:46.760 omelet you're making, you know, it's a, it's not, it's 2299 01:57:46.800 --> 01:57:50.270 a small thing, but it's huge. And then I have– 2300 01:57:50.520 --> 01:57:53.260 back east, I planted a garden with my son this year, 2301 01:57:53.960 --> 01:57:57.270 like a vegetable garden. And he's– I haven't been there, 2302 01:57:57.310 --> 01:57:59.829 but he's been saying the tomatoes are coming like crazy 2303 01:57:59.869 --> 01:58:03.909 and the cucumbers. That's such a– yeah, there you go. 2304 01:58:04.470 --> 01:58:09.810 It's a– I really love this. I love the idea 2305 01:58:09.829 --> 01:58:14.060 that we can– the earth has so much to offer us. 2306 01:58:14.340 --> 01:58:17.560 All it needs is water and sunlight and it will 2307 01:58:18.149 --> 01:58:19.949 produce all these beautiful things. 2308 01:58:20.390 --> 01:58:25.109 Well, there's built-in human rewards for growing things too. There's 2309 01:58:25.170 --> 01:58:28.470 a human reward system. That we have had in our 2310 01:58:28.510 --> 01:58:32.789 DNA for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. When 2311 01:58:32.810 --> 01:58:37.029 you grow things and they produce fruit and they produce vegetables, 2312 01:58:37.109 --> 01:58:37.869 like it's exciting. 2313 01:58:38.029 --> 01:58:38.130 Yeah. 2314 01:58:38.149 --> 01:58:38.989 Because you're going to eat. 2315 01:58:39.149 --> 01:58:39.369 Yeah. 2316 01:58:39.390 --> 01:58:40.170 You're going to survive. 2317 01:58:40.430 --> 01:58:43.670 Yeah. And then when you're doing your harvest in the fall, 2318 01:58:44.829 --> 01:58:47.609 you have an abundance, right? And then I learned how 2319 01:58:47.649 --> 01:58:48.010 to pickle. 2320 01:58:48.909 --> 01:58:49.170 Ah. 2321 01:58:49.310 --> 01:58:52.930 And that's a joy because now you're set for the winter, right? 2322 01:58:53.430 --> 01:58:57.010 Now you've got a refrigerator full of pickled stuff. And, 2323 01:58:58.569 --> 01:59:01.329 you know, to be able to bite into a crisp 2324 01:59:01.569 --> 01:59:05.090 pickle that you grew as a cucumber in the summer 2325 01:59:05.310 --> 01:59:09.010 in December, it's like, you know, this is how they survived. 2326 01:59:09.050 --> 01:59:12.909 You know, this is those, you know, the storage of 2327 01:59:13.109 --> 01:59:17.560 crops and how you how you make them survive through 2328 01:59:17.579 --> 01:59:22.960 the winter. It's a skill that, you know, that. Well, 2329 01:59:23.000 --> 01:59:23.899 that's why we're still here. 2330 01:59:24.279 --> 01:59:27.399 And then you find out that pickling and fermented foods 2331 01:59:27.439 --> 01:59:29.260 and all these things are fantastic for your body. 2332 01:59:29.279 --> 01:59:29.619 Incredible. 2333 01:59:29.779 --> 01:59:31.100 In a way that other foods just aren't. 2334 01:59:31.220 --> 01:59:31.439 Yeah. 2335 01:59:31.779 --> 01:59:34.319 And helps your microbiome and helps your gut. 2336 01:59:34.579 --> 01:59:37.600 Yeah. And then you can, you know, use the extra 2337 01:59:37.649 --> 01:59:38.810 pickle juice for a martini. 2338 01:59:39.149 --> 01:59:39.239 Right. 2339 01:59:39.279 --> 01:59:40.119 And it's fantastic. 2340 01:59:40.189 --> 01:59:40.909 Or you can just drink it. 2341 01:59:41.470 --> 01:59:42.090 Yeah, I do that too. 2342 01:59:42.119 --> 01:59:45.090 Actually buy pickle juice. I have a company that sells 2343 01:59:45.109 --> 01:59:47.949 you these little packets of pickle juice and you drink 2344 01:59:48.010 --> 01:59:49.529 it because it's a probiotic beverage. 2345 01:59:50.010 --> 01:59:53.810 Yeah, I have many jars of. pickles that, or there's 2346 01:59:53.850 --> 01:59:56.930 no more pickles in, but I keep the juice for, 2347 01:59:57.010 --> 02:00:02.029 for drinking. It's, and, you know, fermented foods and, you know, 2348 02:00:02.170 --> 02:00:07.319 I've learned, you know, so much about the, the gut 2349 02:00:07.359 --> 02:00:10.520 biome and, and, and how to make that healthier. And 2350 02:00:12.380 --> 02:00:15.800 all these challenges we're up against with all the poisons 2351 02:00:15.859 --> 02:00:17.699 in our food and how to get around them and 2352 02:00:17.760 --> 02:00:21.380 how to clean, clean, clean yourself out and, I just 2353 02:00:21.420 --> 02:00:25.319 did a cleanse, one of those master cleanses I just 2354 02:00:25.619 --> 02:00:28.270 did 14 days on where you don't eat anything for 2355 02:00:28.270 --> 02:00:31.909 14 days. And it's amazing how great you feel at 2356 02:00:31.949 --> 02:00:32.350 the end of it. 2357 02:00:32.329 --> 02:00:34.189 14 whole days, no food at all? 2358 02:00:34.250 --> 02:00:34.770 No food at all. 2359 02:00:35.090 --> 02:00:36.590 Wow. What did you drink? 2360 02:00:36.670 --> 02:00:43.010 Water? Lemon juice, cayenne pepper, and maple syrup. And that 2361 02:00:43.029 --> 02:00:45.300 will get you through the day. But every morning you're 2362 02:00:45.319 --> 02:00:48.680 doing a purge, right? So you're cleaning out. You're cleaning 2363 02:00:49.119 --> 02:00:51.800 all the poisons out. I do that a couple times 2364 02:00:51.819 --> 02:00:52.979 a year. 2365 02:00:52.979 --> 02:00:54.520 14 days is a long time with no food. 2366 02:00:54.659 --> 02:00:54.920 It is. 2367 02:00:55.760 --> 02:00:57.239 What's the first thing you eat when it was over? 2368 02:00:58.119 --> 02:01:00.819 You got to ease your way back in, like clear 2369 02:01:00.880 --> 02:01:04.510 broth first, then soups, then vegetables, then get to the 2370 02:01:04.529 --> 02:01:04.729 next thing. 2371 02:01:04.789 --> 02:01:05.510 Over how long? 2372 02:01:06.289 --> 02:01:09.989 About a week re-entry. Yeah. Whoa. I mean, you're eating, 2373 02:01:10.090 --> 02:01:13.590 but you're not going for the steak first thing. Right, right, right. Yeah. 2374 02:01:14.189 --> 02:01:15.710 And so you have to kind of ease your system 2375 02:01:15.770 --> 02:01:16.569 back into it. 2376 02:01:17.489 --> 02:01:19.550 Do you experience mental clarity when you do that? 2377 02:01:19.569 --> 02:01:20.649 Total mental clarity. 2378 02:01:20.970 --> 02:01:21.489 Interesting. 2379 02:01:21.989 --> 02:01:22.229 Yeah. 2380 02:01:22.609 --> 02:01:24.329 I've never done it. The most I've done is a day. 2381 02:01:24.489 --> 02:01:27.170 First three days are tough. But then once you get 2382 02:01:27.270 --> 02:01:33.670 past the third day, it's pretty– your energy level is 2383 02:01:33.770 --> 02:01:38.930 like constant throughout the day. And you can work. I 2384 02:01:38.970 --> 02:01:44.149 play sports with it. It's– around 10 days, you should 2385 02:01:44.220 --> 02:01:48.279 stop doing the physical stuff. Too much exertion. I could 2386 02:01:48.300 --> 02:01:49.699 still take a bike ride and stuff. 2387 02:01:49.939 --> 02:01:51.890 But you were working out three days of no food? 2388 02:01:52.829 --> 02:01:53.010 Yeah. 2389 02:01:53.470 --> 02:01:55.050 Wow. 2390 02:01:56.109 --> 02:01:57.829 You have to, you know, everyone's going to have their 2391 02:01:57.869 --> 02:02:00.909 own reaction. So, you know, I'm not advocating even to 2392 02:02:00.970 --> 02:02:03.090 do it. Right. Because, you know, I don't want to 2393 02:02:03.109 --> 02:02:06.090 be responsible for that. But for me personally, it's really helped. 2394 02:02:06.649 --> 02:02:09.909 Because it also, it restarts your system. It basically, you 2395 02:02:09.939 --> 02:02:13.220 get rid of toxins. You're certainly not drinking. You're not 2396 02:02:13.460 --> 02:02:17.689 doing any kind of. abusive shit to yourself. And, uh, 2397 02:02:17.989 --> 02:02:21.210 and basically your body is, is thanking you by the 2398 02:02:21.270 --> 02:02:25.220 clarity it gives you. Like you, you really like, and 2399 02:02:25.520 --> 02:02:29.380 the other thing that happens is I'll just start cleaning shit. Right. So, 2400 02:02:29.920 --> 02:02:31.699 you know, when I'm on a cleanse, I'm going to 2401 02:02:31.739 --> 02:02:35.050 clean a closet because you're not only cleaning yourself, you're 2402 02:02:35.090 --> 02:02:40.449 cleaning your environment around you. And, um, it's, uh, it, I, 2403 02:02:40.590 --> 02:02:42.850 you know, I, I just, I just did it two 2404 02:02:42.869 --> 02:02:44.930 weeks ago. So, Yeah. 2405 02:02:45.449 --> 02:02:46.609 How do you decide when to do it? 2406 02:02:48.029 --> 02:02:51.250 Usually when you've been a little indulgent and you're not 2407 02:02:51.329 --> 02:02:55.420 feeling too good. And, you know, you put on a 2408 02:02:55.449 --> 02:02:59.159 little weight and just like, I don't feel good. I 2409 02:02:59.199 --> 02:03:00.720 want to, you know, clean out. 2410 02:03:00.920 --> 02:03:03.340 You must lose a ton of weight doing that. How 2411 02:03:03.359 --> 02:03:05.399 much have you lost doing 14 days? 2412 02:03:05.399 --> 02:03:10.260 25 pounds. Whoa. About two a day. 2413 02:03:10.880 --> 02:03:11.300 Wow. 2414 02:03:12.199 --> 02:03:12.359 Yeah. 2415 02:03:13.850 --> 02:03:16.189 So then your body is running completely on ketones, right? 2416 02:03:16.210 --> 02:03:17.529 Because your body is running on fat. 2417 02:03:17.949 --> 02:03:18.130 Yeah. 2418 02:03:19.390 --> 02:03:22.649 And so your body is burning fat and ketones. When 2419 02:03:22.710 --> 02:03:25.350 you run on– I've been on ketogenic diets in the 2420 02:03:25.390 --> 02:03:27.689 past and then I've been on the carnivore diet, which 2421 02:03:27.710 --> 02:03:30.810 does the exact same thing, where your mental clarity is 2422 02:03:30.850 --> 02:03:34.489 just so much better. Like everything just runs smooth. It's 2423 02:03:34.520 --> 02:03:38.100 just like you were saying. You have this level flat 2424 02:03:38.239 --> 02:03:41.600 energy throughout the day. There's no highs and lows like 2425 02:03:41.659 --> 02:03:42.960 crashing after a big meal. 2426 02:03:43.579 --> 02:03:46.640 Or caffeine pumps or all that stuff. 2427 02:03:46.800 --> 02:03:47.060 Yeah. 2428 02:03:47.899 --> 02:03:52.810 Yeah. But staying up till, you know, midnight and fine. 2429 02:03:52.819 --> 02:03:56.729 The energy is fine. And you'll sleep less too. You 2430 02:03:56.770 --> 02:03:59.470 need less sleep for some reason. I don't know why. 2431 02:03:59.890 --> 02:04:02.010 Also, I think it's probably good to give your digestive 2432 02:04:02.050 --> 02:04:03.250 system a little break too. 2433 02:04:03.770 --> 02:04:03.970 Yeah. 2434 02:04:04.310 --> 02:04:07.210 Let it relax. I mean, it's constantly work. Especially if 2435 02:04:07.250 --> 02:04:10.689 you eat all throughout the day, if you're a snacker 2436 02:04:10.710 --> 02:04:12.439 and then you have a late at night, you have 2437 02:04:12.460 --> 02:04:13.979 a little bite to eat, wake up in the morning, 2438 02:04:14.000 --> 02:04:17.119 you have breakfast, like your digestive system is just constantly 2439 02:04:17.189 --> 02:04:19.449 grinding out this food and digesting everything. 2440 02:04:19.810 --> 02:04:23.770 Yeah. Yeah. The real, the real poison for me is, 2441 02:04:23.930 --> 02:04:27.989 is sugar. You know, it manifested in alcohol for a while, 2442 02:04:28.029 --> 02:04:31.350 but I don't drink that much anymore. But sugar is the, 2443 02:04:31.489 --> 02:04:32.909 is the, is the big. 2444 02:04:34.239 --> 02:04:34.779 For everybody. 2445 02:04:34.899 --> 02:04:36.920 Yeah. It's a tough one. It's a, it's a very 2446 02:04:36.979 --> 02:04:40.640 addictive and, and you know, you think, oh, it feels 2447 02:04:40.680 --> 02:04:43.100 great when you, Yeah, first have it, but then it 2448 02:04:43.340 --> 02:04:43.899 makes you pay. 2449 02:04:45.149 --> 02:04:49.750 Well, it's also with modern diets, like the kind of 2450 02:04:49.770 --> 02:04:52.430 sugar that we have available today really never existed in 2451 02:04:52.449 --> 02:04:53.189 the past before. 2452 02:04:53.350 --> 02:04:53.810 That's true. 2453 02:04:54.170 --> 02:04:56.369 For most of human history, if you wanted something sweet, 2454 02:04:56.390 --> 02:04:57.069 you had to eat fruit. 2455 02:04:57.550 --> 02:04:57.770 Right. 2456 02:04:58.010 --> 02:05:01.289 Now, all of a sudden, you've got candy bars. You 2457 02:05:01.329 --> 02:05:04.119 have stuff that comes to you in this insane form 2458 02:05:04.600 --> 02:05:07.220 where you have 100 grams of sugar in something that 2459 02:05:07.260 --> 02:05:07.720 you can eat. 2460 02:05:07.979 --> 02:05:08.359 Right. 2461 02:05:08.399 --> 02:05:09.000 That's nuts. 2462 02:05:09.180 --> 02:05:09.779 Yeah. 2463 02:05:09.840 --> 02:05:12.359 Or a drink. You get one of those– What is it, 2464 02:05:12.399 --> 02:05:14.460 Baskin-Robbins Blizzard? Is that the one that has alcohol? 2465 02:05:14.479 --> 02:05:15.039 Oh, my God. 2466 02:05:15.060 --> 02:05:15.680 That thing? 2467 02:05:15.880 --> 02:05:17.439 Those things will mess you up. 2468 02:05:17.619 --> 02:05:19.319 Oh, you get a headache after you're done. 2469 02:05:19.399 --> 02:05:21.020 I know. It's like alcohol. 2470 02:05:21.090 --> 02:05:21.229 Yeah. 2471 02:05:21.239 --> 02:05:27.869 What's that expression? Candy's dandy, but liquor's quicker. Yeah. You know, 2472 02:05:28.789 --> 02:05:34.430 liquor's just concentrated sugar. It's just like, you know. But, 2473 02:05:35.590 --> 02:05:39.750 you know, I try not to be too much of 2474 02:05:39.810 --> 02:05:44.000 a zealot about any of this stuff. But I have– 2475 02:05:44.300 --> 02:05:48.000 like my mom was introducing us to natural food in 2476 02:05:48.560 --> 02:05:52.760 late 60s. So she had read a book called Poisons 2477 02:05:52.840 --> 02:05:56.930 on Our Food and started taking processed food out of 2478 02:05:56.979 --> 02:05:57.550 our diet. 2479 02:05:57.560 --> 02:05:58.229 Oh, wow. 2480 02:05:58.250 --> 02:06:02.630 White bread. This was early on, like 1967. Yeah. So 2481 02:06:02.689 --> 02:06:10.770 she was a real– she really was a homeopath before 2482 02:06:10.789 --> 02:06:15.710 it was called a homeopath. And wound up getting cancer 2483 02:06:15.850 --> 02:06:19.270 and was told she had to have chemo and said, no, 2484 02:06:19.329 --> 02:06:21.850 I'm not doing it. And kicked it herself, you know, 2485 02:06:21.890 --> 02:06:26.479 with changing what she was putting in her body. And 2486 02:06:26.539 --> 02:06:30.239 so I've always, you know, had her as a kind 2487 02:06:30.300 --> 02:06:34.220 of guidepost for my health. She used to always say 2488 02:06:34.960 --> 02:06:38.529 the body is a temple and that the body can 2489 02:06:38.810 --> 02:06:42.229 heal anything. And a lot of it has to do 2490 02:06:42.250 --> 02:06:44.970 with How you approach it in your mind. And if 2491 02:06:44.989 --> 02:06:47.630 you believe that you can heal yourself, you can heal yourself. 2492 02:06:48.350 --> 02:06:49.409 Is she getting this from books? 2493 02:06:50.390 --> 02:06:54.300 I think she got it from a combination of books 2494 02:06:55.180 --> 02:07:02.279 and her faith in Catholicism. I think every religion has 2495 02:07:02.359 --> 02:07:07.760 a fasting day for some reason. That seems to be 2496 02:07:08.560 --> 02:07:12.220 something that is common to all religions. It's important that 2497 02:07:12.239 --> 02:07:15.859 you not eat one day a week. She wouldn't do 2498 02:07:15.899 --> 02:07:18.069 that with us. You know, as kids, she wouldn't starve 2499 02:07:18.170 --> 02:07:22.430 us for a day. But she did have a holistic 2500 02:07:22.489 --> 02:07:26.189 approach to the way that she viewed illness. And I 2501 02:07:27.550 --> 02:07:30.909 remember her drumming it into our heads that if you 2502 02:07:31.010 --> 02:07:34.470 ever get told by a doctor anything, you have to 2503 02:07:34.569 --> 02:07:37.579 challenge it. Go to a different doctor and see if 2504 02:07:37.619 --> 02:07:41.489 they say the same thing. Always, always, always. She lost 2505 02:07:41.590 --> 02:07:45.310 her father and her brother within the course of a 2506 02:07:45.350 --> 02:07:49.350 year to medical malpractice in the 50s. And so she 2507 02:07:49.390 --> 02:07:53.369 had a serious distrust of the medical profession. And back then, 2508 02:07:53.390 --> 02:07:56.689 it was like there was no one even thought about 2509 02:07:56.850 --> 02:07:59.590 suing for malpractice. It was like, that's the doctor. He's 2510 02:07:59.609 --> 02:08:03.060 an authority. figure. You can't mess with him, right? So 2511 02:08:03.229 --> 02:08:09.739 she always approached it with a healthy level of questioning 2512 02:08:10.220 --> 02:08:12.600 whenever she was given advice by doctors. 2513 02:08:13.060 --> 02:08:13.560 Wow. 2514 02:08:14.159 --> 02:08:19.180 And it's interesting. She's always been, you know, I've always 2515 02:08:19.260 --> 02:08:23.899 kind of wondered how she would have reacted to this 2516 02:08:23.979 --> 02:08:29.560 recent thing and all that. Um, but, uh, I, I, I, 2517 02:08:30.630 --> 02:08:32.409 have you ever done ayahuasca? No. 2518 02:08:32.770 --> 02:08:37.390 Yeah. I, I, I've done DMT, which is the, that's 2519 02:08:37.470 --> 02:08:41.369 the actual compound that's active in ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is an 2520 02:08:41.529 --> 02:08:44.279 orally active version of DMT. Yeah. 2521 02:08:44.880 --> 02:08:48.359 Yeah. I was, uh, You know, when they tell you 2522 02:08:48.380 --> 02:08:49.960 to go in, when I did it, they tell you 2523 02:08:49.979 --> 02:08:53.720 to go in with an intention. And my intention was to, 2524 02:08:55.000 --> 02:08:58.909 you know, I was frustrated with feeling anger about what 2525 02:08:58.949 --> 02:09:00.569 was going on in the world. And I said, I 2526 02:09:00.569 --> 02:09:03.729 want to release that. I don't want to be consumed 2527 02:09:03.770 --> 02:09:09.310 by that anger. And so I wound up in this, 2528 02:09:09.949 --> 02:09:16.829 you know, the heavy duty, you know, journey that ayahuasca is. 2529 02:09:17.470 --> 02:09:18.289 And my mom showed up. 2530 02:09:19.289 --> 02:09:21.710 Wow. Yeah. 2531 02:09:21.930 --> 02:09:26.649 And she's– it's not like you actually hear a voice, 2532 02:09:26.680 --> 02:09:29.439 but you hear a voice, right? You basically– if she's there, 2533 02:09:29.640 --> 02:09:33.880 you know it's her. She's saying something to you. And 2534 02:09:33.939 --> 02:09:40.420 what she said was, you're injured. You're a warrior and 2535 02:09:40.460 --> 02:09:44.689 you're injured and you need to rest. But the fight's 2536 02:09:44.750 --> 02:09:53.060 not over. Wow. That was what she told me in 2537 02:09:53.119 --> 02:09:55.460 response to my intention. Whoa. 2538 02:09:55.899 --> 02:09:57.159 What were you battling? 2539 02:10:00.279 --> 02:10:09.229 I was battling my frustration with the dissolution of society, 2540 02:10:09.310 --> 02:10:14.189 people being angry at each other over ridiculous things, long 2541 02:10:14.310 --> 02:10:20.189 friendships being affected. people being canceled for expressing their opinion, 2542 02:10:20.289 --> 02:10:25.670 all this stuff. And I wanted out. I wanted to 2543 02:10:25.949 --> 02:10:28.989 be absolved of that. I didn't want to be engaged 2544 02:10:29.050 --> 02:10:33.130 in it. And what she told me in the course 2545 02:10:33.170 --> 02:10:35.149 of this thing, believe it or not, you know, I 2546 02:10:35.189 --> 02:10:37.649 understand people will be, oh, that's woo-woo and you're just 2547 02:10:37.689 --> 02:10:42.060 tripping and whatever. But I definitely felt her presence there. 2548 02:10:42.500 --> 02:10:44.840 It was no doubt. I went through a whole journey 2549 02:10:44.859 --> 02:10:49.510 with her. I saw things from our lives together. There 2550 02:10:49.529 --> 02:10:52.409 was one moment where I was, you know, I was 2551 02:10:52.449 --> 02:10:58.609 always been curious about something that happened in kindergarten or something. 2552 02:10:58.670 --> 02:11:02.560 I don't remember. And she, you know, at one point 2553 02:11:02.979 --> 02:11:05.640 I felt her presence and she said, you were right 2554 02:11:05.699 --> 02:11:08.079 about that. I'm sorry we didn't listen to you. You know, 2555 02:11:08.140 --> 02:11:14.039 and this kind of really profoundly deep experience. And, um, 2556 02:11:14.199 --> 02:11:17.560 but at the end of it, I felt completely lighter 2557 02:11:18.460 --> 02:11:22.380 and completely, you know, uh, relieved to have been through 2558 02:11:22.439 --> 02:11:27.539 the experience and a great, great connection with my mom, 2559 02:11:27.800 --> 02:11:31.640 you know, just like a beautiful, like, ah, she, she 2560 02:11:31.699 --> 02:11:35.760 gets it. She, she's still around. I've had quite a 2561 02:11:35.800 --> 02:11:41.220 few experiences in this realm. Um, And my mom, in fact, uh, 2562 02:11:41.420 --> 02:11:45.899 you know, uh, she, she, my father died, uh, when 2563 02:11:45.920 --> 02:11:49.050 he was 80 and my mom was 78 and, um, 2564 02:11:50.170 --> 02:11:52.789 she wasn't sick, but my dad had been dying for 2565 02:11:52.810 --> 02:11:55.270 a while. And, uh, we all got down to say 2566 02:11:55.289 --> 02:11:57.210 goodbye to him. They were living in Mexico at the time. 2567 02:11:58.270 --> 02:12:00.090 And we went to the funeral and my mom was 2568 02:12:00.130 --> 02:12:04.100 very stoic and, and sang very strongly my father's favorite 2569 02:12:04.159 --> 02:12:07.159 song at the funeral. And, She didn't cry and we 2570 02:12:07.359 --> 02:12:09.539 were all concerned about her. We hired a couple of 2571 02:12:09.640 --> 02:12:12.159 people for when we left to take care of her. 2572 02:12:13.300 --> 02:12:16.149 And she was really agitated the last night and she 2573 02:12:16.199 --> 02:12:18.689 was– I was there and she said, you know, I 2574 02:12:19.069 --> 02:12:21.210 don't trust these people. I don't know if they're going 2575 02:12:21.229 --> 02:12:23.529 to talk about you or, you know, and your fame 2576 02:12:23.609 --> 02:12:25.649 and all that stuff. I said, Mom, don't worry about it. 2577 02:12:26.229 --> 02:12:28.409 You know, they're just here to get you stuff if 2578 02:12:28.449 --> 02:12:31.449 you need it. Don't worry about it. I go off. 2579 02:12:31.899 --> 02:12:34.020 She wakes up the next morning. She says to my 2580 02:12:34.079 --> 02:12:37.340 sisters who are still in the house with her, everything 2581 02:12:37.380 --> 02:12:41.239 I said last night, don't worry about it. And they said, 2582 02:12:41.619 --> 02:12:44.460 what happened, mom? She said, I had a dream. She said, 2583 02:12:44.479 --> 02:12:49.270 I was in my childhood home in Westwood, California. And 2584 02:12:49.310 --> 02:12:50.850 there was something in my living room and I couldn't 2585 02:12:50.890 --> 02:12:52.590 look at it. It was a stone figure. I couldn't 2586 02:12:52.609 --> 02:12:55.069 look at it. And it was disturbing me. I didn't 2587 02:12:55.090 --> 02:12:57.229 want to look at it. But then I look out 2588 02:12:57.250 --> 02:12:59.390 the bay window and then coming down the street, I 2589 02:12:59.529 --> 02:13:03.329 see led by my first friend in life, a group 2590 02:13:03.369 --> 02:13:07.350 of people coming towards the house. And it didn't make 2591 02:13:07.390 --> 02:13:10.090 any sense. There were people from my childhood, people from 2592 02:13:10.109 --> 02:13:13.489 my choral society, people from my work. But they were 2593 02:13:13.510 --> 02:13:15.310 all there and they all came to the door. And 2594 02:13:15.350 --> 02:13:17.329 when they showed up, I realized everything was going to 2595 02:13:17.350 --> 02:13:20.109 be fine. And I realized, oh, my God, that was 2596 02:13:20.989 --> 02:13:23.189 the departed that had come to say it's going to 2597 02:13:23.220 --> 02:13:32.119 be OK. And so my sisters left. Three days, four 2598 02:13:32.159 --> 02:13:34.119 days later, we got a phone call. My mom has died. 2599 02:13:35.600 --> 02:13:40.819 She wasn't sick. And then my sister talks to the 2600 02:13:40.880 --> 02:13:43.430 woman that was taking care of her. And she said 2601 02:13:43.470 --> 02:13:47.090 it was really strange. You know, the night before she died, 2602 02:13:47.250 --> 02:13:51.609 she said, he's here. And they said, who's here? And 2603 02:13:51.649 --> 02:13:54.289 she said, Gil, my husband. He's here. He's come to 2604 02:13:54.329 --> 02:13:58.050 get me. And they said, no, Mary, he's not. He's 2605 02:13:58.090 --> 02:14:01.289 not there. And she said, oh, no, he most certainly is. 2606 02:14:01.810 --> 02:14:06.250 And he looks very strong because he died feeble. Goes 2607 02:14:06.289 --> 02:14:12.090 to bed that night and passes. Whoa. So even the 2608 02:14:12.149 --> 02:14:15.289 most cynical person in the world that doesn't believe in 2609 02:14:15.390 --> 02:14:18.710 afterlife or anything, how do you explain that? How do 2610 02:14:18.750 --> 02:14:22.229 you explain whatever chemicals were going on in her brain 2611 02:14:22.250 --> 02:14:24.289 to bring her to that passing where she was going 2612 02:14:24.329 --> 02:14:26.670 to join the person that she loved her entire life? 2613 02:14:27.979 --> 02:14:30.319 That's a beautiful thing, regardless of how you look at it. 2614 02:14:31.279 --> 02:14:34.439 I don't think there's any value in being cynical about 2615 02:14:34.460 --> 02:14:39.050 these experiences. And even the ayahuasca experience, like this idea 2616 02:14:39.069 --> 02:14:44.770 that you're hallucinating and that that's what this is, doesn't matter. 2617 02:14:45.050 --> 02:14:48.689 It's the same experience. If you really did make contact 2618 02:14:48.760 --> 02:14:51.399 with your mother in the afterlife and you really did 2619 02:14:51.500 --> 02:14:56.460 have this communication versus whatever the fuck hallucination means, I 2620 02:14:56.479 --> 02:14:59.899 don't know what you mean by that, it's the same experience. 2621 02:15:00.119 --> 02:15:00.279 Yeah. 2622 02:15:00.380 --> 02:15:03.319 So there's no value in being cynical about it. Like 2623 02:15:03.359 --> 02:15:08.510 you get a– you get– There's something that you experience 2624 02:15:08.850 --> 02:15:12.689 from it that's tangible. It's real. You feel it. It 2625 02:15:12.729 --> 02:15:15.890 changes your perspective. It changes the way you feel about 2626 02:15:15.949 --> 02:15:18.090 the world. Like that's a real thing. 2627 02:15:18.109 --> 02:15:18.550 That's a real thing. 2628 02:15:18.569 --> 02:15:21.399 Just because you can't put a measuring tape to it 2629 02:15:21.600 --> 02:15:23.560 or you can't put it on a scale, don't say 2630 02:15:23.569 --> 02:15:24.680 it's not real. That's silly. 2631 02:15:24.699 --> 02:15:27.180 There's so many ways of being that we haven't even 2632 02:15:27.380 --> 02:15:31.520 studied or have no idea about. How people can communicate 2633 02:15:31.640 --> 02:15:34.380 over 2,000 miles. Like a mother wakes up in the 2634 02:15:34.399 --> 02:15:36.680 middle of the night knowing something's wrong with their child 2635 02:15:36.739 --> 02:15:40.119 and five minutes later the fucking phone rings. What the 2636 02:15:40.159 --> 02:15:40.880 hell is that? 2637 02:15:40.960 --> 02:15:43.920 Or twins. Twins who have some sort of very strange 2638 02:15:43.960 --> 02:15:44.939 connection with each other. 2639 02:15:45.810 --> 02:15:48.890 When I was– my grandfather, who I was very close to, 2640 02:15:48.909 --> 02:15:53.029 he was– had been dead for two months and I 2641 02:15:53.090 --> 02:15:56.829 had a dream about him. And I woke up like 2642 02:15:57.090 --> 02:16:00.220 startled and I heard his voice. And he said basically, 2643 02:16:00.420 --> 02:16:04.350 don't worry. I'll take care of it. And I didn't 2644 02:16:04.369 --> 02:16:06.390 know what the hell it meant, but it was very clear. 2645 02:16:06.409 --> 02:16:11.189 It was like, I'll take care of it. Fifteen minutes later, 2646 02:16:11.250 --> 02:16:15.250 I get a phone call from Susan. And my son, Miles, 2647 02:16:15.270 --> 02:16:18.770 who was six years old at the time, had run 2648 02:16:18.930 --> 02:16:21.869 out into the middle of Seventh Avenue. And she said 2649 02:16:21.890 --> 02:16:25.590 it was the weirdest thing. It was like something stopped 2650 02:16:25.649 --> 02:16:28.800 him like that. And a car goes behind him and 2651 02:16:28.810 --> 02:16:32.379 a car goes in front of him. And I was like, 2652 02:16:32.520 --> 02:16:37.579 I know exactly what. just happened. He, he was, he, 2653 02:16:37.680 --> 02:16:41.329 whatever that is, whatever energy he could muster in, in 2654 02:16:41.670 --> 02:16:46.250 whatever phase of being he was, he fucking saved my 2655 02:16:46.309 --> 02:16:52.690 son's life heroically. I'm no doubt about that. Why would 2656 02:16:52.709 --> 02:16:54.850 he show up and say that to me? He said, 2657 02:16:54.870 --> 02:16:56.069 don't worry, I'll take care of it. 2658 02:16:56.850 --> 02:16:57.170 Wow. 2659 02:16:57.719 --> 02:17:01.659 So I, I, I totally believe this stuff. I believe 2660 02:17:01.700 --> 02:17:06.469 that we, That life, death, there's other planes of existence 2661 02:17:07.750 --> 02:17:11.559 that we can get to through various means. It doesn't 2662 02:17:11.620 --> 02:17:19.159 have to be ayahuasca. If you're open to listening in 2663 02:17:19.420 --> 02:17:24.219 different ways, there are great things available for you. It's 2664 02:17:24.280 --> 02:17:26.510 like the idea of an accident. Is it an accident 2665 02:17:26.549 --> 02:17:29.270 that you run into that person that you've been wanting 2666 02:17:29.309 --> 02:17:30.829 to talk to and all of a sudden now they're 2667 02:17:30.870 --> 02:17:32.969 right in front of you? Right. You know, that's not 2668 02:17:33.030 --> 02:17:37.819 an accident. It's, it's divine, whatever, you know, whatever the 2669 02:17:37.860 --> 02:17:41.620 divine is for you. It's, there's, there's another level of 2670 02:17:41.700 --> 02:17:47.469 energy that is going around. We haven't even studied how 2671 02:17:47.489 --> 02:17:55.700 the heart communicates. There's that Spanish or Portuguese cardiologist that 2672 02:17:56.200 --> 02:18:00.459 talks about the realm of communication in the electromagnetic field 2673 02:18:00.479 --> 02:18:04.379 of the heart and what that means and how the 2674 02:18:04.440 --> 02:18:08.100 heart can communicate and has an impact. parts of the 2675 02:18:08.159 --> 02:18:10.440 heart have more neurons in parts of the brain. And 2676 02:18:11.159 --> 02:18:14.079 what is that all about? And it's such that we don't, 2677 02:18:14.239 --> 02:18:17.120 we don't think that way. You know, we don't want 2678 02:18:17.299 --> 02:18:21.260 to experience, we have a, it's a heart is a 2679 02:18:21.340 --> 02:18:24.549 meat pump and that's, it just runs in your entire life. 2680 02:18:24.850 --> 02:18:25.629 Yeah. 2681 02:18:25.729 --> 02:18:29.329 But it doesn't, this guy's suggesting, no, it's electromagnetic energy. 2682 02:18:29.350 --> 02:18:32.250 It's what makes us live longer if we're with someone 2683 02:18:32.370 --> 02:18:35.170 else or with a pet, you know, that some, that 2684 02:18:35.639 --> 02:18:39.629 people that are, isolated and alone are hurting and they're 2685 02:18:39.670 --> 02:18:43.010 not having that electromagnetic connection with other people. That's why 2686 02:18:43.059 --> 02:18:46.100 we crave crowds. That's why we want to be in 2687 02:18:46.139 --> 02:18:49.879 groups of people. It's a natural thing. It keeps us alive. 2688 02:18:49.940 --> 02:18:55.079 It keeps us activated in a community. But we don't 2689 02:18:55.139 --> 02:18:57.719 study that. We don't study what that is and I 2690 02:18:57.840 --> 02:18:58.879 think it's kind of magical. 2691 02:18:59.000 --> 02:19:01.860 That's why solitary confinement is such a cruel punishment. 2692 02:19:01.879 --> 02:19:02.399 So cruel, yeah. 2693 02:19:02.520 --> 02:19:04.520 Yeah. I mean there's a lot of people that think 2694 02:19:04.579 --> 02:19:05.540 it's actual torture. 2695 02:19:06.260 --> 02:19:09.020 Of course it is. Yeah. Of course it is. You've 2696 02:19:09.079 --> 02:19:16.250 got nothing to interact with. And it's why that lockdown 2697 02:19:16.260 --> 02:19:22.629 was cruel. The scope of that loneliness is just immense 2698 02:19:23.010 --> 02:19:25.469 that some people had to deal with. 2699 02:19:25.610 --> 02:19:28.709 Especially people that were already struggling. Some people were already 2700 02:19:28.770 --> 02:19:31.850 filled with anxiety and they already had suffered from depression. 2701 02:19:31.870 --> 02:19:34.350 They were already weird socially. And then all of a 2702 02:19:34.350 --> 02:19:37.049 sudden they're just completely isolated from everyone else for a 2703 02:19:37.149 --> 02:19:39.729 year or a year and a half depending on where 2704 02:19:39.770 --> 02:19:43.510 you lived. So it's weird this desire that people have 2705 02:19:43.549 --> 02:19:47.549 to define things as real or not real and also 2706 02:19:47.649 --> 02:19:53.079 to let everyone know, oh, I'm not falling for that nonsense. But, God, 2707 02:19:53.110 --> 02:19:54.780 I mean at one point in time do you have 2708 02:19:54.799 --> 02:19:57.379 to say, well, all these stories, all these experiences that 2709 02:19:57.420 --> 02:20:00.520 people have, Maybe there's something to it and maybe this 2710 02:20:00.639 --> 02:20:04.040 closed-mindedness is not benefiting me in any way. 2711 02:20:04.760 --> 02:20:08.219 Yeah. I mean there's magic. There's magic in the world. 2712 02:20:08.239 --> 02:20:13.569 I mean there's this old way of thinking. I became– 2713 02:20:13.590 --> 02:20:18.770 do you know what the– there's a book called The 2714 02:20:18.850 --> 02:20:22.110 Nature of Things by a guy named Lucretius written in 2715 02:20:22.110 --> 02:20:26.739 350 BC and it's Epicureanism. And Epicureanism now is about 2716 02:20:27.020 --> 02:20:29.549 you like food, you like wine, whatever. Back then it 2717 02:20:29.610 --> 02:20:33.180 was like the whole purpose of this philosophy or religion, 2718 02:20:33.360 --> 02:20:38.360 whatever you want to call it, was that all of 2719 02:20:38.459 --> 02:20:42.040 life is a miracle. Everything that you're seeing in front 2720 02:20:42.059 --> 02:20:44.680 of you is the first time it's happening and will 2721 02:20:44.719 --> 02:20:48.200 never happen again. It's a collision of atoms in a 2722 02:20:48.239 --> 02:20:50.600 particular way. They don't call them atoms, but they call 2723 02:20:50.620 --> 02:20:56.290 them the smallest particles that create unique experiences every moment 2724 02:20:56.510 --> 02:20:59.229 of your life. And the whole purpose of life is 2725 02:20:59.309 --> 02:21:04.750 to seek the pleasure of that and avoid pain. And 2726 02:21:04.770 --> 02:21:09.819 the pain can be either living isolated or without the 2727 02:21:09.920 --> 02:21:14.420 idea of magic or indulging in something where it creates pain. 2728 02:21:14.940 --> 02:21:18.500 Too much pleasure creates pain. But this philosophy in this 2729 02:21:18.569 --> 02:21:24.530 beautiful long-form poem written by Lucretius in 350 B.C., is 2730 02:21:24.770 --> 02:21:28.450 all about magic. It's all about this idea that look 2731 02:21:28.469 --> 02:21:30.329 how lucky we are to wake up in the morning 2732 02:21:30.370 --> 02:21:36.469 and see that freaking cactus blooming. You know, that's like 2733 02:21:37.229 --> 02:21:41.870 when we get so inured from that, so, you know, 2734 02:21:41.889 --> 02:21:46.809 anesthetized from the magic and it's all just the doldrum 2735 02:21:47.110 --> 02:21:51.989 every day is the same. That's robbing yourself of so much, right? 2736 02:21:52.149 --> 02:21:55.100 That the idea that What if you just woke up 2737 02:21:55.139 --> 02:21:59.239 and said, hey, it's fucking magic. This is amazing. First 2738 02:21:59.260 --> 02:22:01.879 of all, I'm breathing. Second of all, look at that 2739 02:22:02.000 --> 02:22:05.899 sun coming in the window. This is going to be 2740 02:22:05.920 --> 02:22:09.620 an amazing day. Instead of like, ah, shit, I got 2741 02:22:09.639 --> 02:22:12.440 to get up and do my fucking thing. 2742 02:22:12.620 --> 02:22:12.739 No. 2743 02:22:12.760 --> 02:22:18.750 That's also relative because if you were dying in a 2744 02:22:18.809 --> 02:22:23.170 hospital– And you had this opportunity to say, okay, all 2745 02:22:23.190 --> 02:22:25.280 you have to do is say these magic words and 2746 02:22:25.299 --> 02:22:27.620 you'll be transported back to health. 2747 02:22:27.639 --> 02:22:30.860 In your home with a completely new perspective and a 2748 02:22:30.899 --> 02:22:34.420 completely new appreciation for just being healthy and alive. 2749 02:22:35.319 --> 02:22:35.540 Yeah. 2750 02:22:36.969 --> 02:22:39.270 It's just hard for people to shift that perspective and 2751 02:22:39.329 --> 02:22:41.469 think like that all the time. But if you could 2752 02:22:41.530 --> 02:22:44.590 force yourself just as an exercise to say, I am 2753 02:22:44.770 --> 02:22:47.250 so lucky to be above ground. I am so lucky 2754 02:22:47.290 --> 02:22:50.020 to be healthy and alive. mobile if I am and 2755 02:22:50.040 --> 02:22:52.649 I could just go do what I want to do 2756 02:22:52.729 --> 02:22:55.510 and live my life and go say hi to people 2757 02:22:55.590 --> 02:22:56.010 I love. 2758 02:22:57.370 --> 02:22:57.670 Yeah. 2759 02:22:57.690 --> 02:22:58.540 I appreciate it. 2760 02:22:58.729 --> 02:23:01.909 And the idea that you can also– even if things 2761 02:23:02.049 --> 02:23:04.670 are bad, that if you approach life that way, then 2762 02:23:04.690 --> 02:23:07.850 you– there is a possibility of making everything better and 2763 02:23:07.870 --> 02:23:10.569 it has to do with humility. It has to do 2764 02:23:10.610 --> 02:23:15.309 with being able to say I can forgive somebody for something. 2765 02:23:15.329 --> 02:23:20.129 I can also ask forgiveness for something I've done. It's 2766 02:23:20.229 --> 02:23:23.870 all about humility. It's all about humility in the face 2767 02:23:24.030 --> 02:23:26.450 of not only your own personal experience but in how 2768 02:23:26.530 --> 02:23:32.000 you view the universe. Like I– either I'm lucky to 2769 02:23:32.040 --> 02:23:36.639 be here or what a blessing to be able to 2770 02:23:37.579 --> 02:23:42.610 have this life I've had. I want to give. I 2771 02:23:42.629 --> 02:23:46.590 want to– I had this beautiful experience yesterday. When I 2772 02:23:46.629 --> 02:23:51.239 was going through one of my darkest periods, this woman 2773 02:23:51.299 --> 02:23:55.899 showed up. And I'd met her once in my life, 2774 02:23:55.920 --> 02:24:02.299 this Tibetan woman. She's a great singer. And I said, 2775 02:24:02.340 --> 02:24:05.200 why are you here? She said, you're in trouble. I'm 2776 02:24:05.229 --> 02:24:07.149 going to take care of you. And I didn't even 2777 02:24:07.209 --> 02:24:10.190 know her. And I said, all right, OK. And so 2778 02:24:10.209 --> 02:24:15.409 she's here. She did this Reiki healing on me. She sang. 2779 02:24:15.450 --> 02:24:18.950 She wrote incense. And I didn't understand it. I didn't 2780 02:24:19.030 --> 02:24:22.920 understand why she was there. She makes me a meal 2781 02:24:22.950 --> 02:24:25.360 that evening, the first evening. She's done all this healing 2782 02:24:25.399 --> 02:24:29.319 on me. And she says, you know, she makes the 2783 02:24:29.340 --> 02:24:33.420 meal I'm eating. I finish eating. I start taking the dishes, right? 2784 02:24:34.200 --> 02:24:37.500 She says, what are you doing? I said, well, you 2785 02:24:37.700 --> 02:24:42.069 cooked all clean. She says, sit down. That's the problem 2786 02:24:42.090 --> 02:24:44.909 with you people in the West. It's all a business deal. 2787 02:24:46.409 --> 02:24:48.389 I'm doing this for you. Can you just accept that? 2788 02:24:49.270 --> 02:24:52.219 I'm taking care of you. Can you accept that? And 2789 02:24:52.260 --> 02:24:54.719 she said, you will never know how to give love 2790 02:24:54.760 --> 02:24:58.200 until you know how to receive love. And it blew 2791 02:24:58.600 --> 02:25:03.989 my mind. Because at the time, I realized I was 2792 02:25:04.049 --> 02:25:09.430 engaged in that kind of transactional way of looking at relationships. 2793 02:25:10.379 --> 02:25:17.120 That the idea that giving completely is so much better, 2794 02:25:17.899 --> 02:25:21.479 you actually get more out of it than you do 2795 02:25:22.059 --> 02:25:26.260 receiving it. And once I understood that, it kind of 2796 02:25:26.309 --> 02:25:29.129 transformed everything for me because– and that was a person 2797 02:25:29.149 --> 02:25:31.829 that was a total stranger and she showed up just 2798 02:25:31.889 --> 02:25:34.530 out of nowhere. And I said finally at the end 2799 02:25:34.549 --> 02:25:37.729 of it, I said, why are you here? And she said, 2800 02:25:37.889 --> 02:25:42.840 you have done good things. for the world. We need you. 2801 02:25:44.739 --> 02:25:53.940 And she left. And, you know, so I'm, I didn't 2802 02:25:53.979 --> 02:25:56.639 plan that. I didn't, there was, I had no idea 2803 02:25:56.659 --> 02:26:00.420 that was going to happen, but it made me realize 2804 02:26:01.440 --> 02:26:05.680 there are angels in this world. They are manifested as 2805 02:26:05.729 --> 02:26:08.790 human beings, but there are certain kinds of people who 2806 02:26:09.629 --> 02:26:12.770 That are there for you if you are open for it. 2807 02:26:14.030 --> 02:26:16.670 If you are closed off and cynical, you will not 2808 02:26:16.729 --> 02:26:21.149 see your angels. But if you are maybe sometimes just 2809 02:26:21.250 --> 02:26:25.750 completely wiped and you have no, you know, you're just 2810 02:26:26.430 --> 02:26:31.799 ready to receive it. And maybe the fact that I 2811 02:26:31.840 --> 02:26:33.840 was able to receive that I think really helped me 2812 02:26:34.299 --> 02:26:39.020 and helped me shift everything. It's always a struggle, of course. 2813 02:26:39.219 --> 02:26:42.940 That lesson doesn't mean that I'm that way forever. But 2814 02:26:43.020 --> 02:26:48.290 it's a reminder. It's that there is another energy in 2815 02:26:48.329 --> 02:26:53.129 the world that is actually an energy of good. We 2816 02:26:53.190 --> 02:26:57.770 are consumed by the bad all the time. There's all 2817 02:26:57.870 --> 02:27:01.520 these negative forces that are trying to bring us down. 2818 02:27:02.319 --> 02:27:06.350 And I think that sometimes we get so Defeated by 2819 02:27:06.409 --> 02:27:10.209 those things that we are not open to the energy 2820 02:27:10.250 --> 02:27:13.469 of the angels, the good. And when I say angels, 2821 02:27:13.610 --> 02:27:13.989 I don't. 2822 02:27:13.909 --> 02:27:14.770 Mean– I know what you mean. 2823 02:27:15.049 --> 02:27:15.590 Yeah. 2824 02:27:16.350 --> 02:27:21.719 Super positive people. Something– some pure expression of love and 2825 02:27:22.559 --> 02:27:24.180 compassion and generosity. 2826 02:27:24.239 --> 02:27:25.180 Yeah. Yeah. 2827 02:27:25.920 --> 02:27:28.780 And this is the real problem with social media and 2828 02:27:28.959 --> 02:27:33.200 algorithms in particular is that it really highlights the things 2829 02:27:33.239 --> 02:27:34.000 that make you upset. 2830 02:27:34.670 --> 02:27:35.569 It does. Yeah. 2831 02:27:36.329 --> 02:27:39.190 And that kind of energy is like really is that 2832 02:27:39.940 --> 02:27:42.420 affecting your everyday life? Well, it is if you dive 2833 02:27:42.520 --> 02:27:46.000 into the negativity all day long and you're engrossed in 2834 02:27:46.280 --> 02:27:50.639 social media and getting upset about things rather than experiencing 2835 02:27:50.760 --> 02:27:54.430 the life that's actually in front of you and doing 2836 02:27:54.469 --> 02:27:57.809 it from a positive perspective and not concentrating on all 2837 02:27:57.850 --> 02:28:01.659 these external things That could be making you angry or 2838 02:28:01.680 --> 02:28:05.040 making you frustrated or filling you with anxiety. You're actually 2839 02:28:05.100 --> 02:28:06.280 poisoning yourself with that. 2840 02:28:06.940 --> 02:28:11.340 Yeah, you are. And it's a constant battle because that 2841 02:28:11.379 --> 02:28:14.000 damn thing is buzzing all the time. But I have 2842 02:28:14.040 --> 02:28:17.100 gotten better with it. I will not look at it 2843 02:28:17.139 --> 02:28:18.299 first thing in the morning anymore. 2844 02:28:19.000 --> 02:28:21.200 Well, it's much like we were talking about like film 2845 02:28:21.280 --> 02:28:23.469 and records being a new thing. This is a really 2846 02:28:23.520 --> 02:28:26.549 new thing and this is very invasive. It's a very 2847 02:28:26.649 --> 02:28:28.860 new thing and very invasive. And it's going to take 2848 02:28:28.899 --> 02:28:31.120 a while for people to figure out the right way 2849 02:28:31.139 --> 02:28:33.840 and the wrong way to use it. And what are 2850 02:28:33.860 --> 02:28:38.870 the ramifications and the consequences of using it incorrectly? Because 2851 02:28:39.709 --> 02:28:42.870 no one's teaching that. They're not teaching children that in school. 2852 02:28:42.889 --> 02:28:45.510 There should be a course on this is the negative 2853 02:28:45.590 --> 02:28:49.809 aspect of social media. These are the negative aspects of interaction. 2854 02:28:49.850 --> 02:28:51.670 This is what it's doing to your consciousness. This is 2855 02:28:51.729 --> 02:28:55.620 what it's doing to your focus. It's stealing your joy. 2856 02:28:56.389 --> 02:29:00.809 It's stealing your appreciation of the moment. 2857 02:29:01.389 --> 02:29:04.090 Right. And it's leading you into conflict constantly. 2858 02:29:04.389 --> 02:29:04.930 Constantly. 2859 02:29:05.450 --> 02:29:10.319 And, you know, that's a negative thing. That's a force 2860 02:29:10.360 --> 02:29:13.620 of evil. Yeah. Strong word, but, you know. 2861 02:29:13.680 --> 02:29:15.739 It's the right word, though. You know, it's, again, there's 2862 02:29:15.780 --> 02:29:19.479 these words, good, evil, angel, God. They fuck with people 2863 02:29:19.520 --> 02:29:23.000 because they're like, oh, what is that? It's, I think. 2864 02:29:23.510 --> 02:29:26.020 got to kind of abandon that way of thinking and 2865 02:29:26.040 --> 02:29:29.520 just go, well, there's certainly positive and negative. There's certainly 2866 02:29:29.620 --> 02:29:34.040 love and evil. Those are real things. And there's good. 2867 02:29:34.219 --> 02:29:37.659 There's good in the world. And also, the more you 2868 02:29:37.700 --> 02:29:40.969 concentrate on other things, the more your life is defined 2869 02:29:41.030 --> 02:29:43.770 by those other things, whether it's good or bad. So 2870 02:29:43.790 --> 02:29:46.170 if you're constantly thinking about bad things, like, well, you 2871 02:29:46.209 --> 02:29:48.930 can't have a very loving and amazing life if you're 2872 02:29:48.969 --> 02:29:53.239 constantly inundated with thoughts about negative things. And on the 2873 02:29:53.280 --> 02:29:55.739 other side of it, if you're thinking in a positive 2874 02:29:55.780 --> 02:29:59.500 way and enjoying love and friendship and community and just 2875 02:29:59.799 --> 02:30:02.459 doing stuff that you actually find value in, well, this 2876 02:30:02.479 --> 02:30:05.860 has got to give you better energy. And also the 2877 02:30:05.920 --> 02:30:08.329 way you interact with other people will be different. So 2878 02:30:08.370 --> 02:30:10.770 you'll affect the way they feel and that will have 2879 02:30:10.809 --> 02:30:13.110 that butterfly effect out to the rest of the people 2880 02:30:13.149 --> 02:30:14.709 they come in contact with. 2881 02:30:14.829 --> 02:30:16.950 Not to mention it's really good for your health. Yes. 2882 02:30:17.729 --> 02:30:19.709 Well, like you were saying before, one of the worst 2883 02:30:19.750 --> 02:30:20.950 things for your health is loneliness. 2884 02:30:21.469 --> 02:30:23.629 Yeah. Yeah, it'll kill you. 2885 02:30:24.129 --> 02:30:26.090 Tim Robbins, you're a cool motherfucker. 2886 02:30:26.270 --> 02:30:26.790 Thank you, man. 2887 02:30:26.950 --> 02:30:27.680 I enjoyed talking to you. 2888 02:30:27.690 --> 02:30:28.610 I appreciate it. It was great. 2889 02:30:28.909 --> 02:30:29.530 Thank you very much. 2890 02:30:29.629 --> 02:30:30.229 Thanks for having me. 2891 02:30:30.530 --> 02:30:30.989 My pleasure. Goodbye.