Speaker 1: Hear about it. If I stand up for somethis I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna hide behind the map. Talk about it. It's
Speaker 1: all programmed to create chaos. Fifty five KRS at six
Speaker 1: Here at fifty five kr C Detalk Station, A very
Speaker 1: very happy Friday to you. I am pleased to welcome
Speaker 1: to the fifty five CARC Morning Show author Dean Reuter.
Speaker 1: He is, by way of background, General Counsel of the
Speaker 1: Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy. Fellow lawyer he is,
Speaker 1: and he's also a fellow with the National Security Institute
Speaker 1: of George Mason University's Antonine Scalia Law School. He was
Speaker 1: the director of Liberty's Nemesis, The Unchecked, editor rather of
Speaker 1: a Liberty's Nemesis Unchecked Expansion of the State and Confronting
Speaker 1: Terror nine to eleven in the Future of American National Security. Wow,
Speaker 1: and you talk about that one as well. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Morning Show, Dean Reuter, author of the book we're
Speaker 1: talking about today, The Hidden Nazi, The Untold Story of
Speaker 1: America's Deal with the Devil. It's a pleasure to have
Speaker 1: you on today, sir.
Speaker 2: It's very very good to be with you. Brian.
Speaker 1: What is the deal here. No, I've never heard of
Speaker 1: General hun K He is apparently one of the worst
Speaker 1: Nazi world criminals. You never heard of. It's in the
Speaker 1: materials it says that, And you're right. I consider myself
Speaker 1: pretty well versed historically speaking, although no authority on World
Speaker 1: War Two am I. But you know, you got all
Speaker 1: kinds of Nazis whose names immediately come to mind, like Mangola,
Speaker 1: SS chief, Heinrich Himmler. Well, who in the hell is
Speaker 1: General Hans Kamler And how did you stumble upon him?
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a great question, great place to start, Brian,
Speaker 2: And I got to tell you that I had in
Speaker 2: a run up to doing this book, I spoke two
Speaker 2: hundreds of folks, heed the thousands, even many of them
Speaker 2: World War two officionados. Nobody ever heard of Hans Cameler,
Speaker 2: which makes him such an interesting character. In part, but
Speaker 2: he was the thumbnail sketch. He was basically Integraler. He
Speaker 2: was integral in the persecution of the Holocaust and the
Speaker 2: slave labor trade. By the end of the war, because
Speaker 2: of his efficiency in doing that, he's promoted to rule
Speaker 2: all of Germany's secret weapons, including the V two rocket.
Speaker 1: Well, I probably heard about oh yeah.
Speaker 2: And then hands over the rocket scientists, including Werner von Brown,
Speaker 2: to the United States in an attempt to erase his
Speaker 2: holocaust passed. So that's what the book's about. And to
Speaker 2: answer your second question, how they stumbled upon him, it's
Speaker 2: the researchers on the cover of the book who came
Speaker 2: to me with this story partly revealed already, and then
Speaker 2: we worked together to get to the rest of the facts.
Speaker 1: How about that, now, it was a kind of a
Speaker 1: regular running joke on one of my favorite cartoons, Archer.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with the series, but
Speaker 1: there was a German that worked in the spy organization
Speaker 1: that was depicted in the in the in the comedy series,
Speaker 1: but regular jokes about how we went in and snatched
Speaker 1: of all the German scientists in the aftermath of World
Speaker 1: War two, in spite of the fact that they were
Speaker 1: responsible for some horrific, horrific crimes, but because they had
Speaker 1: this intellect and knowledge, we were happy to make accommodations
Speaker 1: for them. Here is there some measure of truth to that?
Speaker 2: That's exactly this story. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 2: you were trying to speak from truth in that comic strip.
Speaker 2: But that's precisely what happened, with a couple of caveats.
Speaker 2: The conventional history has always been that we stumbled upon
Speaker 2: these rocket scientists, that we just got lucky in getting them.
Speaker 2: But what we prove in this book is sort of
Speaker 2: a surprise ending. What we prove is that Hans Kandler
Speaker 2: was very deliberate in moving this rocket team and this
Speaker 2: is hundreds of people twice, very late in the war,
Speaker 2: from northern virgin or northern sorry, northern Germany to central
Speaker 2: Germany to southern Germany, which is where we collected them.
Speaker 2: And he did this very specifically, very deliberately in order
Speaker 2: to try and evase his Nazi past, rehabilitate his career,
Speaker 2: and get himself to the United States. That's what we
Speaker 2: call the deal with the Devil, to deal with Hans kml.
Speaker 1: How so, sort of like Robert Bird, former Grand Dragon
Speaker 1: of the Ku Klux Klan, reforms himself and professes to be,
Speaker 1: you know, a a reformed god. No no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm in favor of civil rights, and the ends up,
Speaker 1: you know, clearing his past so that people don't pay
Speaker 1: attention to it anymore. He was offering his services to
Speaker 1: the victors the United States of America, in order to
Speaker 1: cover up what he had done during World War Two,
Speaker 1: which is basically, if not directly, indirectly killing millions of Jews.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, That's precisely the story, and our whole
Speaker 2: theory sort of it comes apart because the conventional history
Speaker 2: is at the end of the war, the sky Hans
Speaker 2: Kamler walks off into the woods and kills himself. It's like,
Speaker 2: why would he do that if he had arranged this
Speaker 2: elaborate deal with the United States Army. That's what undermines
Speaker 2: the theory. But what the book proves is that he
Speaker 2: did not die at the end of war. He did
Speaker 2: not kill himself. He actually, and we have the paperwork
Speaker 2: to prove this, he actually surrendered to the US Army
Speaker 2: and we had him in custody. So the theory then
Speaker 2: holds together.
Speaker 1: So was the suicide fabricated with our help? In other words,
Speaker 1: that we coordinate this idea that he had killed himself.
Speaker 1: He committed suicide in order to cover up his traces.
Speaker 1: Even further, I mean, was was the United States involved
Speaker 1: in that component?
Speaker 2: We don't have evidence that the United States was involved
Speaker 2: in his actual suicide. We do have evidence that the
Speaker 2: United States knew about his alleged suicide, failed to reveal
Speaker 2: the truth while it had him in custody. So the
Speaker 2: United States is certainly complicit. I don't know that they
Speaker 2: were involved in dreaming up the suicide.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, but it was certainly convenient to say he
Speaker 1: was dead.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. And you know, in doing this book,
Speaker 2: we talked to the Masade, We talked to the Department
Speaker 2: of Justice OSI and our Nazi hunters, and it's very
Speaker 2: clear they said it in these words, we never looked
Speaker 2: for Hans cam Well, he was dead, why would we
Speaker 2: look for him?
Speaker 1: So because he's over at NASA. Yeah, so do we
Speaker 1: to facilitate his you know, being brought to the United
Speaker 1: States with the others rocket scientists.
Speaker 2: Well that's where that's where we run out of documentation.
Speaker 2: And we had him, we know, we had him in
Speaker 2: custody for eleven months in Europe where he was testifying
Speaker 2: about missing funds. He was in Nuremberg on the eve
Speaker 2: of the Nuremberg trials, the major war crimes trials. But
Speaker 2: after that eleven months, in other words, after April of
Speaker 2: nineteen forty six, eleven months after the end of the war,
Speaker 2: the paper trail disappears with a note from England saying
Speaker 2: we want him, we want to extodize him here because
Speaker 2: he's launched all these missiles into London and Southampton, and
Speaker 2: a note in the file, handwritten note from the Americans
Speaker 2: saying no objection to his expedition, and then poof, it
Speaker 2: just says if he never never existed.
Speaker 1: So it's alleged that he committed suicide in nineteen forty six.
Speaker 1: Then when that paper trail ends.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, The suicide was supposedly in May of
Speaker 2: nineteen forty five.
Speaker 1: In Numberg trials.
Speaker 2: Well, he wasn't there, I think, because he was seen
Speaker 2: as an asset, so he got a Wow.
Speaker 1: It's amazing what can be justified in the name of
Speaker 1: acquiring technology, I suppose. Did Do you have any idea
Speaker 1: where he ended up living? Did he establish an alias?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Just just nothing after that point in time that.
Speaker 2: There are no documentary records. But based on what we
Speaker 2: know about him and the connections he had and the
Speaker 2: people he was involved with on the US side, we
Speaker 2: spin out three different scenarios and I think it's probably
Speaker 2: most likely he ended up in South America, having gone
Speaker 2: through the rat line, what's called the rat line, which
Speaker 2: was the escape route through the Alps that was facilitated
Speaker 2: by the Western allies.
Speaker 1: Brazil, probably Paraguay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, but what's very clear is those other Nazis you mentioned,
Speaker 2: he Hans Kandler would have been higher on the wanted
Speaker 2: list than Mangola.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my word. So specifically, he was involved with
Speaker 1: integraly response before the construction of the concentration camps themselves.
Speaker 2: Right, He designed the barracks, he installed the gas chambers,
Speaker 2: he installed the ovens and then maintained them. And then
Speaker 2: he identified Auschwitz as the kilt camp. And then he
Speaker 2: reproduced that effort in one killing camp after another after another.
Speaker 2: And after all of that, he was then integral in
Speaker 2: running the slave trade, that is, taking the healthiest of
Speaker 2: the Jews and just turning them into dust, working in
Speaker 2: them into dust as slaves in support of the FDS
Speaker 2: in the German government.
Speaker 1: Sounds to me like this formerly unknown General Hans Kamler
Speaker 1: was a primary component in the final solution itself. I mean,
Speaker 1: he had that much involvement with killing camps, he had
Speaker 1: to be a key instrument, and he just creating the
Speaker 1: whole concept of exterminating the Jews.
Speaker 2: He absolutely was, absolutely was. He wrote a paper. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the book covers a paper he wrote in nineteen thirty
Speaker 2: three which is his vision encapsulating all of this. Just so,
Speaker 2: he was not just a functionary. He was an ideologue
Speaker 2: and he was in and on the ground floor. And
Speaker 2: to get away with it.
Speaker 1: Wow. Just the idea that someone could believe in the
Speaker 1: concept of an exterminating the higher race of an entire
Speaker 1: race of people is just so just contrary to my
Speaker 1: personal belief systems and my understanding. I just I find
Speaker 1: it hard to believe that people can embrace this kind
Speaker 1: of concept. I'm baffled by it.
Speaker 2: It's very, very troubling, but it is. There is a
Speaker 2: lesson there. And this was the German culture, you know,
Speaker 2: before World War Two, one of the most highly evolved, sophisticated,
Speaker 2: intelligent cultures in the history of mankind, and suddenly it
Speaker 2: just went off the rails. So the book studies that
Speaker 2: aspect too, very very troubling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And as I say that, I do have to
Speaker 1: appreciate American history. We did believe at one point in
Speaker 1: time human beings could be chattel owned by other human beings. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess the concept does resonate to a certain degree,
Speaker 1: and of course we have that on our hands here
Speaker 1: in the United States. But that story obviously for a
Speaker 1: different day, the hidden Nazi until story of Americas deal
Speaker 1: with the devil. You said you worked with the Israeli
Speaker 1: secret service, the Masade. Were they helpful to you on this?
Speaker 1: Were they aware of this guy themselves?
Speaker 2: They know they were not aware, but they were helpful
Speaker 2: and sense of answering her questions. They were not aware
Speaker 2: of him beyond knowing his name. They had no file
Speaker 2: on him, they hadn't searched for him. They considered him
Speaker 2: that they bought the story that he was Actually he
Speaker 2: was adjudicated dead by a German court. So the cover
Speaker 2: up was very thorough. But the way this story got exposed,
Speaker 2: by about sixty years later, three or four or five
Speaker 2: different people were telling five or six or seven different
Speaker 2: stories of his death. And you know, just as an
Speaker 2: intelligent person, that you hear two different versions in one
Speaker 2: set of events, at least one of them's wrong, and
Speaker 2: sometimes both of them are wrong, and the whole thing
Speaker 2: was made up.
Speaker 1: Turns out this is truly amazing. I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: it's going to be a book that's well worth reading
Speaker 1: in a listening audience is going to want to gobble
Speaker 1: this one up. You can get a copy of the
Speaker 1: book at fifty five KRC dot com. Jose added your
Speaker 1: book to my blog page so they can click on
Speaker 1: it and take them to a link where it's bought.
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write this book?
Speaker 1: Given this disappearing paper troll and the idea that nobody
Speaker 1: even knew this guy was alive? I guess the inspiration
Speaker 1: behind trying to find him is a great question to ask,
Speaker 1: because if the most sad thinks he's dad, they're one
Speaker 1: of the best buy organizations in the world. How is
Speaker 1: it you determined that maybe not?
Speaker 2: It was just dogged work by these two researchers that
Speaker 2: befriended me, and I was involved in it with years.
Speaker 2: I mean I traveled extensively. A lot of the work
Speaker 2: was done overseas in Europe. I actually interviewed Hans Kamler's son,
Speaker 2: so I had to go to Germany for that, which
Speaker 2: is in and of itself is just a chilling, sort
Speaker 2: of weird story, but very interesting. So it's a year's
Speaker 2: long project, especially when you considered that three people were
Speaker 2: involved in it. But you know we're all hobbyists, we
Speaker 2: all have other full time jobs.
Speaker 1: You're a lawyer by trade, and I know you've got
Speaker 1: legal work to do in between writing books on General
Speaker 1: Hans Kamler and finding him. Fascinating story, my friend, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you coming on the program and sharing this
Speaker 1: information by listening audience, the hidden Nazi, untold story of
Speaker 1: Americans deal with the Devil with my guest today, Dean Reuter.
Speaker 1: They're going to get it online at five KRC dot
Speaker 1: com and thoroughly enjoy it. And are you inspired to
Speaker 1: find more of these fights you It's weird. I got
Speaker 1: to tell you, Dean. I've talked to a lot of
Speaker 1: authors about World War two incidents, things that nobody ever
Speaker 1: heard of until someone decided they were going to write
Speaker 1: a book on it. It's sort of seemingly an endless,
Speaker 1: bottomless well of stories yet to be told. And this
Speaker 1: is just a one more in the long line of
Speaker 1: things that happened during World War Two.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating, it is astounding, and when you think of it,
Speaker 2: I mean, World War Two is the most massive undertaking
Speaker 2: the history of mankind involving virtually everyone on the planet,
Speaker 2: so these stories are men.
Speaker 1: And one of the most researched things that has ever
Speaker 1: happened to mankind. There are thousands and thousands of books
Speaker 1: written about World War Two, and here we are in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, learning about something that nobody knew about. Dean,
Speaker 1: It's been a real pleasure having you on the program.
Speaker 1: Fascinating topic and obviously some moral and ethical questions that
Speaker 1: we can struggle with as we read The Hidden Nazi Dean.
Speaker 1: I hope you have a wonderful weekend, and again, thanks
Speaker 1: for your time this morning. It's been a lot of
Speaker 1: fun and interesting.
Speaker 2: Great to be with you, Brian, Thanks so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you. It's eight nineteen here fifty five KRC, the
Speaker 1: Talk Station, Do Not Go Away. Coming up bottom of
Speaker 1: the R. Ambassador Francis Rooney on Trump's foreign policy former
Speaker 1: representative as well. We'll have Francis on the program coming
Speaker 1: up at bottom of the R. Hope you can stick around.
Speaker 1: Fifty five KRC, the Talks Station.