WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Hear about it. If I stand up for somethis I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not gonna hide behind the map. Talk about it. It's

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<v Speaker 1>all programmed to create chaos. Fifty five KRS at six

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<v Speaker 1>Here at fifty five kr C Detalk Station, A very

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<v Speaker 1>very happy Friday to you. I am pleased to welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the fifty five CARC Morning Show author Dean Reuter.

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<v Speaker 1>He is, by way of background, General Counsel of the

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<v Speaker 1>Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy. Fellow lawyer he is,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's also a fellow with the National Security Institute

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<v Speaker 1>of George Mason University's Antonine Scalia Law School. He was

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<v Speaker 1>the director of Liberty's Nemesis, The Unchecked, editor rather of

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<v Speaker 1>a Liberty's Nemesis Unchecked Expansion of the State and Confronting

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<v Speaker 1>Terror nine to eleven in the Future of American National Security. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>and you talk about that one as well. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the Morning Show, Dean Reuter, author of the book we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about today, The Hidden Nazi, The Untold Story of

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<v Speaker 1>America's Deal with the Devil. It's a pleasure to have

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<v Speaker 1>you on today, sir.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very very good to be with you. Brian.

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<v Speaker 1>What is the deal here. No, I've never heard of

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<v Speaker 1>General hun K He is apparently one of the worst

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<v Speaker 1>Nazi world criminals. You never heard of. It's in the

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<v Speaker 1>materials it says that, And you're right. I consider myself

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<v Speaker 1>pretty well versed historically speaking, although no authority on World

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<v Speaker 1>War Two am I. But you know, you got all

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of Nazis whose names immediately come to mind, like Mangola,

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<v Speaker 1>SS chief, Heinrich Himmler. Well, who in the hell is

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<v Speaker 1>General Hans Kamler And how did you stumble upon him?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's a great question, great place to start, Brian,

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<v Speaker 2>And I got to tell you that I had in

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<v Speaker 2>a run up to doing this book, I spoke two

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of folks, heed the thousands, even many of them

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<v Speaker 2>World War two officionados. Nobody ever heard of Hans Cameler,

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<v Speaker 2>which makes him such an interesting character. In part, but

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<v Speaker 2>he was the thumbnail sketch. He was basically Integraler. He

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<v Speaker 2>was integral in the persecution of the Holocaust and the

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<v Speaker 2>slave labor trade. By the end of the war, because

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<v Speaker 2>of his efficiency in doing that, he's promoted to rule

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<v Speaker 2>all of Germany's secret weapons, including the V two rocket.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I probably heard about oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And then hands over the rocket scientists, including Werner von Brown,

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<v Speaker 2>to the United States in an attempt to erase his

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<v Speaker 2>holocaust passed. So that's what the book's about. And to

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<v Speaker 2>answer your second question, how they stumbled upon him, it's

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<v Speaker 2>the researchers on the cover of the book who came

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<v Speaker 2>to me with this story partly revealed already, and then

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<v Speaker 2>we worked together to get to the rest of the facts.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that, now, it was a kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>regular running joke on one of my favorite cartoons, Archer.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you're familiar with the series, but

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<v Speaker 1>there was a German that worked in the spy organization

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<v Speaker 1>that was depicted in the in the in the comedy series,

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<v Speaker 1>but regular jokes about how we went in and snatched

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<v Speaker 1>of all the German scientists in the aftermath of World

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<v Speaker 1>War two, in spite of the fact that they were

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<v Speaker 1>responsible for some horrific, horrific crimes, but because they had

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<v Speaker 1>this intellect and knowledge, we were happy to make accommodations

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<v Speaker 1>for them. Here is there some measure of truth to that?

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly this story. I mean, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>you were trying to speak from truth in that comic strip.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's precisely what happened, with a couple of caveats.

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<v Speaker 2>The conventional history has always been that we stumbled upon

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<v Speaker 2>these rocket scientists, that we just got lucky in getting them.

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<v Speaker 2>But what we prove in this book is sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a surprise ending. What we prove is that Hans Kandler

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<v Speaker 2>was very deliberate in moving this rocket team and this

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<v Speaker 2>is hundreds of people twice, very late in the war,

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<v Speaker 2>from northern virgin or northern sorry, northern Germany to central

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<v Speaker 2>Germany to southern Germany, which is where we collected them.

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<v Speaker 2>And he did this very specifically, very deliberately in order

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<v Speaker 2>to try and evase his Nazi past, rehabilitate his career,

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<v Speaker 2>and get himself to the United States. That's what we

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<v Speaker 2>call the deal with the Devil, to deal with Hans kml.

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<v Speaker 1>How so, sort of like Robert Bird, former Grand Dragon

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<v Speaker 1>of the Ku Klux Klan, reforms himself and professes to be,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a a reformed god. No no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in favor of civil rights, and the ends up,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, clearing his past so that people don't pay

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<v Speaker 1>attention to it anymore. He was offering his services to

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<v Speaker 1>the victors the United States of America, in order to

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<v Speaker 1>cover up what he had done during World War Two,

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<v Speaker 1>which is basically, if not directly, indirectly killing millions of Jews.

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly right, That's precisely the story, and our whole

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<v Speaker 2>theory sort of it comes apart because the conventional history

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<v Speaker 2>is at the end of the war, the sky Hans

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<v Speaker 2>Kamler walks off into the woods and kills himself. It's like,

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<v Speaker 2>why would he do that if he had arranged this

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<v Speaker 2>elaborate deal with the United States Army. That's what undermines

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<v Speaker 2>the theory. But what the book proves is that he

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<v Speaker 2>did not die at the end of war. He did

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<v Speaker 2>not kill himself. He actually, and we have the paperwork

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<v Speaker 2>to prove this, he actually surrendered to the US Army

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<v Speaker 2>and we had him in custody. So the theory then

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<v Speaker 2>holds together.

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<v Speaker 1>So was the suicide fabricated with our help? In other words,

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<v Speaker 1>that we coordinate this idea that he had killed himself.

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<v Speaker 1>He committed suicide in order to cover up his traces.

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<v Speaker 1>Even further, I mean, was was the United States involved

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<v Speaker 1>in that component?

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have evidence that the United States was involved

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<v Speaker 2>in his actual suicide. We do have evidence that the

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<v Speaker 2>United States knew about his alleged suicide, failed to reveal

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<v Speaker 2>the truth while it had him in custody. So the

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<v Speaker 2>United States is certainly complicit. I don't know that they

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<v Speaker 2>were involved in dreaming up the suicide.

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<v Speaker 1>Fair enough, but it was certainly convenient to say he

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<v Speaker 1>was dead.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah. And you know, in doing this book,

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<v Speaker 2>we talked to the Masade, We talked to the Department

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<v Speaker 2>of Justice OSI and our Nazi hunters, and it's very

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<v Speaker 2>clear they said it in these words, we never looked

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<v Speaker 2>for Hans cam Well, he was dead, why would we

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<v Speaker 2>look for him?

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<v Speaker 1>So because he's over at NASA. Yeah, so do we

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<v Speaker 1>to facilitate his you know, being brought to the United

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<v Speaker 1>States with the others rocket scientists.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's where that's where we run out of documentation.

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<v Speaker 2>And we had him, we know, we had him in

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<v Speaker 2>custody for eleven months in Europe where he was testifying

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<v Speaker 2>about missing funds. He was in Nuremberg on the eve

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<v Speaker 2>of the Nuremberg trials, the major war crimes trials. But

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<v Speaker 2>after that eleven months, in other words, after April of

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen forty six, eleven months after the end of the war,

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<v Speaker 2>the paper trail disappears with a note from England saying

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<v Speaker 2>we want him, we want to extodize him here because

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<v Speaker 2>he's launched all these missiles into London and Southampton, and

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<v Speaker 2>a note in the file, handwritten note from the Americans

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<v Speaker 2>saying no objection to his expedition, and then poof, it

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<v Speaker 2>just says if he never never existed.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's alleged that he committed suicide in nineteen forty six.

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<v Speaker 1>Then when that paper trail ends.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, The suicide was supposedly in May of

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen forty five.

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<v Speaker 1>In Numberg trials.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, he wasn't there, I think, because he was seen

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<v Speaker 2>as an asset, so he got a Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>It's amazing what can be justified in the name of

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<v Speaker 1>acquiring technology, I suppose. Did Do you have any idea

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<v Speaker 1>where he ended up living? Did he establish an alias?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>Just just nothing after that point in time that.

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<v Speaker 2>There are no documentary records. But based on what we

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<v Speaker 2>know about him and the connections he had and the

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<v Speaker 2>people he was involved with on the US side, we

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<v Speaker 2>spin out three different scenarios and I think it's probably

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<v Speaker 2>most likely he ended up in South America, having gone

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<v Speaker 2>through the rat line, what's called the rat line, which

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<v Speaker 2>was the escape route through the Alps that was facilitated

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<v Speaker 2>by the Western allies.

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<v Speaker 1>Brazil, probably Paraguay. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, but what's very clear is those other Nazis you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>he Hans Kandler would have been higher on the wanted

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<v Speaker 2>list than Mangola.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh my word. So specifically, he was involved with

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<v Speaker 1>integraly response before the construction of the concentration camps themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, He designed the barracks, he installed the gas chambers,

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<v Speaker 2>he installed the ovens and then maintained them. And then

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<v Speaker 2>he identified Auschwitz as the kilt camp. And then he

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<v Speaker 2>reproduced that effort in one killing camp after another after another.

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<v Speaker 2>And after all of that, he was then integral in

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<v Speaker 2>running the slave trade, that is, taking the healthiest of

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<v Speaker 2>the Jews and just turning them into dust, working in

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<v Speaker 2>them into dust as slaves in support of the FDS

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<v Speaker 2>in the German government.

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds to me like this formerly unknown General Hans Kamler

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<v Speaker 1>was a primary component in the final solution itself. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>he had that much involvement with killing camps, he had

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<v Speaker 1>to be a key instrument, and he just creating the

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<v Speaker 1>whole concept of exterminating the Jews.

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<v Speaker 2>He absolutely was, absolutely was. He wrote a paper. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the book covers a paper he wrote in nineteen thirty

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<v Speaker 2>three which is his vision encapsulating all of this. Just so,

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<v Speaker 2>he was not just a functionary. He was an ideologue

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<v Speaker 2>and he was in and on the ground floor. And

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<v Speaker 2>to get away with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Just the idea that someone could believe in the

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<v Speaker 1>concept of an exterminating the higher race of an entire

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<v Speaker 1>race of people is just so just contrary to my

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<v Speaker 1>personal belief systems and my understanding. I just I find

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<v Speaker 1>it hard to believe that people can embrace this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of concept. I'm baffled by it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very, very troubling, but it is. There is a

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<v Speaker 2>lesson there. And this was the German culture, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>before World War Two, one of the most highly evolved, sophisticated,

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<v Speaker 2>intelligent cultures in the history of mankind, and suddenly it

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<v Speaker 2>just went off the rails. So the book studies that

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<v Speaker 2>aspect too, very very troubling.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And as I say that, I do have to

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate American history. We did believe at one point in

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<v Speaker 1>time human beings could be chattel owned by other human beings. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess the concept does resonate to a certain degree,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course we have that on our hands here

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States. But that story obviously for a

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<v Speaker 1>different day, the hidden Nazi until story of Americas deal

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<v Speaker 1>with the devil. You said you worked with the Israeli

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<v Speaker 1>secret service, the Masade. Were they helpful to you on this?

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<v Speaker 1>Were they aware of this guy themselves?

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<v Speaker 2>They know they were not aware, but they were helpful

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<v Speaker 2>and sense of answering her questions. They were not aware

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<v Speaker 2>of him beyond knowing his name. They had no file

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<v Speaker 2>on him, they hadn't searched for him. They considered him

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<v Speaker 2>that they bought the story that he was Actually he

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<v Speaker 2>was adjudicated dead by a German court. So the cover

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<v Speaker 2>up was very thorough. But the way this story got exposed,

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<v Speaker 2>by about sixty years later, three or four or five

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<v Speaker 2>different people were telling five or six or seven different

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<v Speaker 2>stories of his death. And you know, just as an

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<v Speaker 2>intelligent person, that you hear two different versions in one

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<v Speaker 2>set of events, at least one of them's wrong, and

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes both of them are wrong, and the whole thing

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<v Speaker 2>was made up.

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<v Speaker 1>Turns out this is truly amazing. I'll tell you what

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be a book that's well worth reading

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<v Speaker 1>in a listening audience is going to want to gobble

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<v Speaker 1>this one up. You can get a copy of the

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<v Speaker 1>book at fifty five KRC dot com. Jose added your

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<v Speaker 1>book to my blog page so they can click on

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<v Speaker 1>it and take them to a link where it's bought.

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<v Speaker 1>How long did it take you to write this book?

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<v Speaker 1>Given this disappearing paper troll and the idea that nobody

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<v Speaker 1>even knew this guy was alive? I guess the inspiration

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<v Speaker 1>behind trying to find him is a great question to ask,

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<v Speaker 1>because if the most sad thinks he's dad, they're one

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<v Speaker 1>of the best buy organizations in the world. How is

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<v Speaker 1>it you determined that maybe not?

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<v Speaker 2>It was just dogged work by these two researchers that

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<v Speaker 2>befriended me, and I was involved in it with years.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I traveled extensively. A lot of the work

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<v Speaker 2>was done overseas in Europe. I actually interviewed Hans Kamler's son,

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<v Speaker 2>so I had to go to Germany for that, which

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<v Speaker 2>is in and of itself is just a chilling, sort

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<v Speaker 2>of weird story, but very interesting. So it's a year's

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<v Speaker 2>long project, especially when you considered that three people were

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<v Speaker 2>involved in it. But you know we're all hobbyists, we

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<v Speaker 2>all have other full time jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>You're a lawyer by trade, and I know you've got

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<v Speaker 1>legal work to do in between writing books on General

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<v Speaker 1>Hans Kamler and finding him. Fascinating story, my friend, I

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<v Speaker 1>really appreciate you coming on the program and sharing this

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<v Speaker 1>information by listening audience, the hidden Nazi, untold story of

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<v Speaker 1>Americans deal with the Devil with my guest today, Dean Reuter.

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<v Speaker 1>They're going to get it online at five KRC dot

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<v Speaker 1>com and thoroughly enjoy it. And are you inspired to

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<v Speaker 1>find more of these fights you It's weird. I got

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<v Speaker 1>to tell you, Dean. I've talked to a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>authors about World War two incidents, things that nobody ever

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<v Speaker 1>heard of until someone decided they were going to write

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<v Speaker 1>a book on it. It's sort of seemingly an endless,

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<v Speaker 1>bottomless well of stories yet to be told. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is just a one more in the long line of

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<v Speaker 1>things that happened during World War Two.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fascinating, it is astounding, and when you think of it,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, World War Two is the most massive undertaking

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<v Speaker 2>the history of mankind involving virtually everyone on the planet,

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<v Speaker 2>so these stories are men.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the most researched things that has ever

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<v Speaker 1>happened to mankind. There are thousands and thousands of books

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<v Speaker 1>written about World War Two, and here we are in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five, learning about something that nobody knew about. Dean,

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<v Speaker 1>It's been a real pleasure having you on the program.

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<v Speaker 1>Fascinating topic and obviously some moral and ethical questions that

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<v Speaker 1>we can struggle with as we read The Hidden Nazi Dean.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you have a wonderful weekend, and again, thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for your time this morning. It's been a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>fun and interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to be with you, Brian, Thanks so much.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you. It's eight nineteen here fifty five KRC, the

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<v Speaker 1>Talk Station, Do Not Go Away. Coming up bottom of

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<v Speaker 1>the R. Ambassador Francis Rooney on Trump's foreign policy former

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<v Speaker 1>representative as well. We'll have Francis on the program coming

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<v Speaker 1>up at bottom of the R. Hope you can stick around.

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<v Speaker 1>Fifty five KRC, the Talks Station.