WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:05.360 If you're enjoying Haunted UK Podcast on the road, please 2 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:09.480 consider supporting the show on Patreon or Coffee. Just search 3 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:13.480 for the Haunted UK podcast to find us. I'm traveling 4 00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:16.399 the length and breadth of the UK speaking to those 5 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:19.679 who work within some of the country's most intriguing places. 6 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:23.559 Have a location with a story or an experience you 7 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:30.320 can't explain, email contact us at hauntedukpodcasts dot com. I 8 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:33.479 might be on the road to you next. Now sit 9 00:00:33.600 --> 00:01:29.359 back and enjoy the episode. On the sixth of September 10 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.719 twenty twenty five, I was given exclusive access to one 11 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:36.519 of the most notorious and historically charged locations in Britain, 12 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.640 Oxford Castle and Prison, a site that has stood for 13 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:44.480 nearly one thousand years, a fortress, a prison, a place 14 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:47.719 of execution, and, according to many who work within its 15 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:50.640 ancient walls, a place where the past may not be 16 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:54.879 entirely at rest. After sitting down for interviews with members 17 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:58.959 of the team, hearing first hand accounts of unexplained experiences 18 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:01.959 from those who know the building best, I was granted 19 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:06.480 something few ever experience, a personal tour after the doors 20 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:07.599 had closed. 21 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:07.879 To the public. 22 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:11.919 So before we get into it, a little bit of 23 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:15.759 history for you. Oxford Castle was built in ten seventy 24 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:19.319 one following the Norman conquest by a baron loyal to 25 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:22.520 William the Conqueror. Over the centuries, it evolved from a 26 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:26.199 military stronghold to a county prison, one that held everyone 27 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:31.319 from petty criminals to condemned murderers. The prison remained operational 28 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:36.000 until nineteen ninety six, marking nearly a millennium of continuous use. 29 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:42.039 Within those walls, executions, torture, and unimaginable suffering became part 30 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:45.039 of its legacy. So to help us unravel more of 31 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.479 this building's haunted past, I'm joined by Kessia, who knows 32 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:59.199 these walls better than most. Kessia, thank you so much 33 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:01.719 for being our guide. To begin with, could you tell 34 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:04.439 us a bit about yourself, your role here at Oxford 35 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.080 Castle and Prison, and how long you've been part of 36 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:07.759 its story. 37 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:08.879 Yeah? 38 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.960 So, I am one of the operations duty managers here 39 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.039 at Oxford Castle Prison. I've been here for about five 40 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:19.800 years nearly, and I've kind of done everything a little bit. 41 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:22.520 So yeah, got a lot of stories. 42 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:26.560 I only touched briefly on the castle's long and complex history. 43 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:29.039 Could you take us a little bit deeper into its origins, 44 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.000 who built it and what are some of the most 45 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:33.120 pivotal moments in its timeline. 46 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:37.879 So it originally started off as an Anglo Saxon settlement, 47 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:41.960 and then a Norman baron called Robert Doyley comes along 48 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:44.560 and besides, this is going to be the perfect place 49 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:50.280 for a castle, so he builds the castle around Saint 50 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:52.680 George's Tower, which is the oldest part of the site. 51 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:56.520 It's just over a thousand years old. And then eventually 52 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.000 the castle gets destroyed at the end of the English 53 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:04.199 of a War, and about one hundred years later, a 54 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:06.919 man called Daniel Harris decides that this is the perfect 55 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:12.240 spot to build his dream prison, so he builds it 56 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.879 exactly as you see it today. The only exception is 57 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:18.959 a wing which is just next to us here and 58 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.120 that is now part of the hotel. But that was 59 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.279 built by the Victorians, and that's the last part of 60 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:24.920 the site to be completed. 61 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:29.079 Right, Okay, Are there any historical figures or prisoners who 62 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:32.680 stand out to you personally, and if so, what makes 63 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:34.319 their story so compelling? 64 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:34.800 Yeah? 65 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:38.319 So for me, I would say our prisoner Isaac Darkin, 66 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.240 who was here in the seventeen hundreds. He was hanged 67 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.360 for being a highwayman, and he was only twenty one 68 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.240 when he was executed. But in about four years of 69 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:52.079 his life he had I would say, the most incredible 70 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:53.240 and I guess. 71 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:55.639 Movie like existence. 72 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:56.720 Yes, absolutely. 73 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.639 Where he was a highwayman, he he took over his 74 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:07.000 father's business of cork cutting, which then failed. He joined 75 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:10.160 the army, he joined the navy. He uncovered a plot 76 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.399 to kill a guard on a ship, and he because 77 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:14.759 he snitched on them, they gave him a full pardon. 78 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:17.800 He deserted both. 79 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:20.160 The army and the navy. He went to the Caribbean. 80 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:24.600 He came back, became a hioman again. He got into 81 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.800 a bit of a sticky situation in I think he 82 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:33.000 was in Bath, and they again gave him a full 83 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:37.120 pardon there. And then it kind of all comes crashing 84 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:41.360 down in nettle Bed where he helds up, holds up 85 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.800 the wrong guy, and he's eventually arrested and brought here 86 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.480 where he's executed. But he is said to have been 87 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:50.560 quite the ladies man whilst he was here. If he 88 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:52.759 ever held up a carriage full of ladies, he had 89 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:54.439 them all get out and dance with him. Instead of 90 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:59.120 stealing anything from them. 91 00:05:57.399 --> 00:05:59.439 And he would here. 92 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:01.839 He would make sure that his hair was done nicely 93 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:03.800 every day, and he always had his best clothes on 94 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:06.240 because people would of course come and visit the prisoners 95 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.639 in prison. And he was always reading. That's been recorded 96 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:12.879 as he was a bit of a bookworm and he 97 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:14.040 was a total ladies man. 98 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:16.759 And all of that in twenty one years. 99 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.000 In four years. He started that age seventeen. 100 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:22.079 Yeah right, okay, so yeah, a twenty one year of existence, 101 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:24.439 but four years. He crammed all of that into four years. 102 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:26.839 Yeah. Yeah. 103 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:30.959 So there are rumors of hidden tunnels and forgotten cells 104 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.600 beneath the castle. So what do we actually know about 105 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:36.120 these spaces? 106 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:39.920 Yeah, So the hidden tunnels are a link between the 107 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.879 old magistrates court and the prison and they are still there. 108 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:50.600 They link the one particular cell up into the dock 109 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:53.720 of the courtroom, and it's so that we could transport 110 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.519 prisoners without them being seen by the public before their trial, 111 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.040 and then as soon as their trial was done, they 112 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:03.199 would come back down. We believe that the saying you're 113 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:06.079 going down or you've been sent down comes from us, 114 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.639 because we're one of the first recorded places to have 115 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:13.879 these tunnels linking and after they would have been sentenced 116 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.120 to go back to prison, the judge was say send 117 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:19.319 him that down right, Okay, that's how they'd come across. 118 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.279 So something about the tunnels as well. You've got a 119 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:27.279 very very famous paranormal investigated turning gop here very soon. Yes, 120 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:31.439 And I think you mentioned earlier that the tunnels were 121 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:32.759 going to be opened up and you guys are going 122 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:35.360 to actually be able to go down there. Yeah. Are 123 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:37.279 you allowed to say who the ghost hunter is? 124 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:41.720 Yeah, we've got Barry guy coming down to share his expertise. 125 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.040 Right, Okay, what time does that start? On the evening? 126 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.600 So the whole event starts at eight o'clock and then 127 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.120 they get a little Q and a session with him, 128 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:51.839 a little. 129 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:53.399 Meet and Greek, and then the X. 130 00:07:54.879 --> 00:08:01.600 The investigation starts at about eleven o'clockish. We're going to 131 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.319 start off in the tunnels and then we're going to 132 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:04.959 come back over to the site and then they get 133 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:06.240 free reign of the site. 134 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:08.199 Okay, what time does it finish? Time? 135 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:09.279 About midnight? 136 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:10.519 Right? Okay? 137 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:16.680 Okay have you organized this event? You speaking around for it? 138 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:16.920 Yeah? 139 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:17.480 Absolutely. 140 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:23.879 When you first started working here, KSI, did anything strike 141 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:29.319 you as unusual. Were there moments that made you pause? 142 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:34.639 Say, not, particularly when I first started. When I first started, 143 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:37.200 I was in the gift shop every day, so there 144 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:40.399 wasn't a huge amount that happened there. Occasionally we'd have 145 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.519 things like fall off shelves and things like that, and 146 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:44.120 there was always a bit of a rumor that there's 147 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.639 a little ghost that likes to mess around in the 148 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:51.120 gift shop, but we're not too sure about that. But then, 149 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:53.960 as I've been here a bit longer, you start to 150 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.440 pick up on things. When I was tour guiding, multiple 151 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:59.440 people would tell me similar things, and I know that 152 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:01.399 they wouldn't have spoken to each other because there'd be 153 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.639 like days weeks apart. They wouldn't have known each other. 154 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:07.799 So you start to pick up on a few like, oh, 155 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:13.080 maybe there is something in this room, and then yeah, 156 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.080 there's there's been a few other a few other little 157 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:18.279 situations which I'm not too sure about. 158 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:20.600 Would you like to elaborate on. 159 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:26.519 Yeah, So about two years ago now, I think it was, 160 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:33.799 we were just finishing up our Halloween tours and our 161 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:36.639 last group of the evening was a school group. They 162 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.360 were running late, so I opened the door to go 163 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:41.759 and tell the tour guide that his tour was running late, 164 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.480 and I saw him walk in full costume down the 165 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:47.480 prison way. Called out to him, he didn't answer. Called 166 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:49.039 out to him again, and he came out from the 167 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:52.440 staff room at the top of the stairs, which wouldn't 168 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:54.320 have had time because that door was locked. He wouldn't 169 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:55.519 have had time to get all the way up there 170 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:57.600 open and closed that door without me hearing. Because I 171 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:00.679 was stood right underneath it. I thought it was a 172 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:02.720 bit strange. I told him, with the group were running late, 173 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.120 I walked out, closed the door, didn't think any more 174 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.519 of it, so just carried on. Yep, because I think 175 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:09.080 because it was near Halloween. I was like, you know, 176 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:12.159 what a bit strange. I'm just gonna just gonna ignore it. 177 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:19.000 And then about two or three months later, I was 178 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.240 on my own here in the building opening up and 179 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.879 the first team member arrived to start opening up as well, 180 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.039 and he came in and was like, oh, I've just 181 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:32.120 seen this team member in full costume walk down the 182 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:36.159 prison wing. I thought, no, you haven't. I'm the only 183 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:38.480 one here and that team member is not working today. 184 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:41.360 So we went for a little walk around the site 185 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.240 just to make sure that nobody had broken in, couldn't 186 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:46.840 find anybody. That team member wasn't in at all that day, 187 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:49.639 so we were quite confused. 188 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:51.879 Again. We were like, maybe it's just a trick of 189 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:52.200 the light. 190 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:57.240 We'll think no more of it, and then I know. 191 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:01.080 November last year, I did a went with Kieren o'keeith 192 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:03.120 and I told him this story, but I didn't tell 193 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.000 him what the tour guide looked like. I didn't tell 194 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:07.200 him what he was wearing. And at the end of 195 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:09.559 the night, his team came up to me and said, 196 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.919 we saw this person walking down this corridor, which is 197 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:15.960 where both of me and my other colleague had seen 198 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.919 a figure, and they described him perfectly. He had quite 199 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.919 a distinct haircut and the costume that he would would 200 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:31.039 have worn was the Victorian prisoner outfit. And he wasn't 201 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.200 working that night. I had no tour guides working that night. 202 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.519 It was just myself and one other colleague. And yeah, 203 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.159 it was a bit a bit freaky that three different 204 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:43.320 people have seen this same thing. 205 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:46.759 Yeah, and even from Keira and O'Keefe's guys as well, 206 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.960 So that's a been unusual with with Keraan. Would you 207 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.759 say that the atmosphere shifts once the public leaves. And 208 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:59.720 have you ever felt that the building changes when it's quiet. 209 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.720 Yeah, I think it kind of relaxes a little bit. 210 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:07.159 It's almost like, Okay, nobody's here, we can just sort 211 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:10.919 of breathe a little bit. I definitely say that the 212 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.279 atmosphere does change sometimes. Sometimes when you're hair and you're 213 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:17.600 on your own, you're kind of hyper aware of everything. 214 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:21.039 But there's also some times where it does just feel 215 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:23.320 like there's lots of other people with you, even if 216 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:24.720 there's nobody else on site. 217 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:32.399 Okay, I've got to ask this question. You mentioned earlier 218 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:34.840 when we were chatting before this that there is one 219 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:37.639 room in this castle that you kind of get the 220 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:38.360 creeps in. 221 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:39.080 Yep. 222 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.360 What is that room? And why do you get the creeps? 223 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:43.919 What is it about this room? 224 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:48.440 I genuinely don't know. I So we called this room 225 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:53.799 Real Matilda's Room, and it's in Saint George's Tower, which 226 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.320 is the oldest part of the site. 227 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:56.600 Which will be going to see as well. 228 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.919 Yeah, and it's the room that we think Empress matter 229 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.399 Order was kept in when she was here in eleven 230 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.080 forty two during the anarchy, and we know that she 231 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:10.399 escapes from the tower, but we're not entirely sure of how. 232 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:12.480 The story says that she ab sails down the side 233 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:16.080 of the tower, which is pretty cool, but we're not sure. 234 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.399 But that room, it really unsettles me. I don't know why. 235 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.919 I try to avoid it if I can, it just 236 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:25.639 I don't know why. I just get a bit of 237 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:27.480 a who feeling when I go in it. 238 00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:32.840 Yeah, putting aside the Kiran o'keef thing and that siting, 239 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.240 that that triple sighting of that, that. 240 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:36.600 That spirit or whatever it. 241 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:42.039 Was, in your opinion, what is the most convincing story 242 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.600 or piece of evidence that suggests to you that something 243 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.120 supernatural may be going on here? 244 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.080 I would say the crypt. 245 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:54.480 So when I was a tour guide, I would have 246 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:56.720 multiple people on my tours tell me that there were 247 00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:59.879 two presences in the crypt. One was worse than the other. 248 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.759 They could never work out if the less bad one 249 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:06.200 was trapped there or was there to protect us from 250 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:09.399 the really bad one. I've had multiple people tell me this, 251 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.879 I've had I've supervised other ghost hunts. They've also come 252 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.840 and told me a similar thing. And that for me 253 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.799 is the thing where I'm like, maybe something is happening 254 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.720 if multiple people are saying the same or a similar 255 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:25.879 thing about one room in particular. 256 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:32.840 Right, Okay, finally the big question, do you believe Oxford 257 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:37.240 Castle is truly haunted or is it just simply the 258 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:38.120 pair of suggestion? 259 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:40.759 Oh, I don't know. 260 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.039 You're not going to sit on the thing. 261 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:48.919 I think I am, because like, there's lots of things 262 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:53.919 that happen, but because we work here, I think a 263 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.799 lot of it we just kind of brush off because 264 00:14:57.960 --> 00:14:59.440 we don't want to think about it too much. 265 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:04.679 And so I'm not sure. I'm really not sure. 266 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.679 I think maybe that there is something here. I don't 267 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:12.480 know whether it's potentially as like really bad as some 268 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:17.039 people have said, but yeah, I don't know for sure. 269 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:19.720 I mean, I'm really surprised that some of the hours 270 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:23.440 that you guys work here and you're you're really in 271 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.480 this building pretty much on your own at times, just 272 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:31.039 wandering around checking things, and it doesn't spook you or 273 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:32.039 creep you out. 274 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.000 Or anything like that. 275 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:35.320 No. I think I get used to it, and I 276 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:38.759 kind of there's definitely times where I can work out 277 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.879 which noises are just the building settling or me having 278 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:47.360 walked through some creaky floorboards. Things like that. But yeah, 279 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:49.720 there are there are times where there's other noises, but 280 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:50.679 because I'm here. 281 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:52.200 On my own, I don't want to think about it 282 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:52.799 too much. 283 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:55.279 So I'll just brush it off, explain it away. 284 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:59.320 Okay, Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights 285 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.639 and experience. But this isn't the last we're going to 286 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.919 hear from yourself, Kessea, because soon you're going to be 287 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:06.960 taking me on a personal tour of the castle and 288 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:10.519 we'll be recording every moment, so if something happens, you're 289 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.240 all going to be right there with us. So thank 290 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:14.840 you so much. 291 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:16.759 You're welcome, thank you for having me. 292 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.519 So that brought my conversation with Kessia to a close 293 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.480 for now. As I mentioned earlier, we'll be hearing from 294 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:44.120 her again later in the episode. But as the evening 295 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:47.200 went on and the light outside the ancient walls began 296 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.080 to fade, it was time to sit down with someone 297 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:54.000 who sees a very different side of the building. Hailey Weiss, 298 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.480 the marketing manager for Oxford Castle and Prison, works at 299 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.159 the heart of preserving and presenting nearly one thousand and 300 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.720 years of history. Yet beyond the brochures, guided tours and 301 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:08.880 heritage events, Haley has had experiences of her own, moments 302 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:12.160 that are hard to explain, Moments that remind you that 303 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:16.279 this isn't just a historic attraction. It's a place with 304 00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:28.839 the past that still lingers. Here's my conversation with Hailey Weiss. 305 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:34.599 So I'm now joined by Haley. Haley welcome, Thank you. 306 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.200 Could you give us a quick rundown on who you are, 307 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:40.960 what you do here, your role? 308 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:44.599 Yes, So I'm the marketing manager here at Oxford Castle 309 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:48.920 in Prison and I've been here for just literally just 310 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:51.559 over a year now by maybe a couple of weeks. 311 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:56.240 So right, Okay, have you experienced anything strange here at all? 312 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:00.240 Because I know that you mentioned earlier that you were 313 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:01.160 quite skeptical. 314 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:07.200 I think I have. Again, yes, it's do I want 315 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.799 to admit it? Maybe not, but yeah, I've had some 316 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:11.839 strange occurrences. 317 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:16.039 Okay, would you be prepared to go into those strained currencies? 318 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:22.000 Yes, they're all quite similar in a way. So how 319 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.279 long ago was it when I first came? But so, 320 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.440 part of my routine in the morning is when I 321 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.119 come in and Keziah well know this as well, is 322 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.759 when I come in, I say good morning three times. 323 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:35.279 As soon as I. 324 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:38.000 Get from the gift shop into the main prison wing. 325 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.240 And I feel like I don't know where it started. 326 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:44.480 I don't know why I started doing it, but now 327 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:46.880 I feel like I have to keep doing it because 328 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:52.920 I've get scratches on my arm. Now if I don't. 329 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:54.839 Say it scratches on your arm. 330 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.519 It's only really on my left arm that I've had it. 331 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:01.599 I've had a couple of my right but it was 332 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:05.440 And the only reason like I noticed it was because 333 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.839 there was a few days where I'd go, oh, I 334 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.119 haven't said it, because I was just rushing to get in, 335 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.599 and I'd sit down in my chair and I'd be like, okay. 336 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:15.039 There's another scratch there. 337 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.480 And I thought, okay, you know, first time, you know, 338 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:21.359 that's just a bit weird. You know, I must have 339 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:25.400 caught something. And it happened again again. It was on 340 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.799 a busy day. I came in and again I had another, 341 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:32.079 but this time it was rather than it being on 342 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:33.799 like my arm, I had it on the top of 343 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:39.400 my hand. And again I thought, okay, right, something odd's happening. Now, 344 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.240 rushed off again. Third time again another scratch. Yeah, I've 345 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.240 had it about five times now. 346 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:48.079 Wow. 347 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.079 The only the last one was actually just about a 348 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.039 month ago. 349 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:54.000 Again it was rushed. 350 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.160 Okay, they need to always when you forget to. 351 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:01.640 Yeah, so I say it every time, and so I thought, okay, look, 352 00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:02.920 this just feels a bit weird. 353 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.519 Let me just check. And so I was like, is 354 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:06.559 it my worktop? 355 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.039 And I'd even say to have my other colleagues like, 356 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:13.559 am I going insane? It's not my worktop? Nope, it's 357 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.240 not the worktop. Okay, is it my coat? No? It 358 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.680 was wearing different coats bag, no, different rucksack I was wearing, 359 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:22.359 And I thought, okay, what am I catching it on? 360 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.920 So I would I still haven't found a reason why 361 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:30.200 this has sort of been happy. So that's why I 362 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.720 kind of say it's a bit weird because I haven't 363 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.119 found the reason for it. But the only thing that's 364 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.799 I know that has stayed the same is I haven't 365 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:42.039 said good morning. 366 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:49.279 That is absolutely intriguing because when I interviewed Amy Hickman 367 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.839 at Dudley Cassar, she does exactly the same thing. She 368 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:56.599 says good morning to the building every time she goes in, 369 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.920 and she will say goodbye to the building, and she 370 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:05.240 said it's some sort of tradition she's always, always done it. 371 00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:07.640 You've got no idea where that came from. Did the 372 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:08.839 person before do it. 373 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:13.440 Or I don't know because we didn't really I didn't 374 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:14.759 really have a crossover. 375 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:17.759 With Do you kind of feel that the building relaxes 376 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.440 in a sense or is it. 377 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.559 It's a different Yeah, it's a different energy. I feel 378 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.680 like that's in the space. It's when it's it's you know, 379 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.319 when it's open in the public around, you get that 380 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.200 busy vibe. But as soon as yeah, it's we close 381 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:36.599 the doors, it feels quieter. But it doesn't feel empty. 382 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.599 So like I've been alone in the mornings. When I 383 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.720 come in, I'm often the first person in, sometimes by 384 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.319 like half an hour to an hour, and still you 385 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.680 don't feel fully on your own, Like it feels just 386 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:54.519 a bit something. I don't really know how else to 387 00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.160 word it, but it just you don't feel alone. Even 388 00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.839 though you know the site's locked up. You're the only 389 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:02.559 one in. I haven't unlocked any other doors because I 390 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:06.440 wait until somebody else arrives before I unlock the door. Yeah, 391 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:09.039 it's a I feel like the place has its own 392 00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:11.559 sort of I don't know, it feels like it has 393 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.119 its own personality as well. It doesn't feel like just 394 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:15.799 a building. It feels like more of like a living 395 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:17.680 sort of space. 396 00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:22.000 If that makes nodding at the corner as well, then 397 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:26.559 she's she's agreed. I'd like to ask a similar question 398 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:32.480 that I asked Kesse earlier, which was is there a 399 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:36.400 particular spot in this castle? And I know there is 400 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:39.240 because you said it a little while ago. That gives 401 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.599