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Speaker 1: And look at here here we are. It's Tuesday. Today

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is the eighth day of July, year of our Lord,

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twenty twenty five. My name is Tom Sullivan. Glad you

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could come by today. We have something different for you today.

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I've got basically two main stories. One of them is

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about China, and Gordon Chang is going to join us,

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an absolute expert on everything regarding China, and we get

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we'll talk to him about his beliefs on what's going

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to happen with China, with their economy, with the trade

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war with Taiwan, all of of all of those topics

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we will cover. We've also got this story that has

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it came out late yesterday afternoon, which is that the

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Department of Justice has come out and said there's nothing

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to see. Nothing, no, Jeffrey Epstein, there's nothing to see,

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there's no there's no file. Gosh, we were so wrong.

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I mean, this is this is crazy. The Attorney General,

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Pam Bondi, came out last February and said, I got

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the papers on my desk for me to sign off.

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They've got names, they've got flight records, they've got everything

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is right there. And then she called They had a

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big orchestrated meeting at the White House that she orchestrated

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with all these online influencers who were given binders and

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they walked out of the White House. There's lots of

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coverage of that with all these binders. They were smiling

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ear to ear and then the next day all of

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these influencers came out and said, there's nothing in there.

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There's nothing in there. So now, the Justice Department yesterday

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released an eleven hour video that was outside Epstein's prison

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cell door, and what they wanted to do was dispel

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the rumors that Epstein was murdered, that he did not

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die by suicide. And they say, no, no, no, you

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can see nobody did anything to him. There's the video

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doesn't actually show the door to his cell. It's the

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area outside of his cell, and it shows some people

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walking around, and it oh, that's right. There's a problem

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because the timestamp on the video skips from eleven fifty

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eight pm to midnight. And so Pam Bondi during the

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cabinet meeting said the video was not conclusive, but the

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evidence prior to it was showing that he did commit suicide.

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I don't know what you It doesn't make any difference

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to it is. It's one of those though about cover

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ups and transparency, and the Attorney General is defending the

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interview she gave in February where she said an Epstein

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client list was on her desk to be reviewed. There

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were reports of law enforcement after Epstein died that went

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into his various residences and found photographs and videos, and

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we wonder who those photographs some videos were of, and

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you can bet it was powerful people. But all of

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a sudden, none of that, it's just disappeared. So Pam

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Bondi said that there's thousands of hours of video turned

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out to be child sex abuse and they would not

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be released. So the Justice Department and the FBI published

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a memo yesterday concluding there was no evidence of a

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client list, none of that that she said earlier. So

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Cash Ptel, the FBI director, and Dan Bongino, the number

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two guy at the FBI before they were officialdom, they said,

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oh yeah, this absolutely looks like a conspiracy. Was So,

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I don't know where the robber's going to hit the

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wrote on this thing, but somebody's head will probably fall.

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I'm guessing that it's Pam Bondy. She's the one who

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orchestrated this whole thing, had the big meeting at the

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White House, says she had the file on her desk

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with the client's names, she had all these videos, she

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had all this stuff, and now she's going up, I

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don't know, we don't have it. There's nothing there. And

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Dan Bongino and cash Pttel they're sticking to the company

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line and saying, oh, there's nothing there. I'd like to

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refer back to doctor Michael Boden. I've interviewed doctor Boden

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a number of times. He's the former chief Medical Examiner

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for the City of New York. He has done and

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supervised so many autopsies and high profile ones. He knows

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what he's doing. It's not a matter of political opinion.

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He goes or no, this may be a little rough

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for some of you are sensitive. If so, you might

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want to try something else. But this is the medical

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facts that doctor Boden got out of the auto He

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was there at the autopsy and he said this here.

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Let's listen to what he had to say.

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Speaker 2: Making requests of things to be done if necessary as

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part of the autopsy, ad in to the autopsy. What

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I was there for the autopsy. During the course of

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the autopsy, it became apparent that there was a ligature

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mark around his neck from where he supposedly died of hanging,

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and that there were multiple fractures of the bones underneath it.

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The windpipe was fractured in three places. It was more

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of a crush injury than a hanging injury, and that

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there were hemorrhages in the eyes. That this was more

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of a strangulation case, manual strangulation case than or a

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ligature strangulation by somebody else, not by hanging in a cell,

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because in hanging there are there aren't that many fractures.

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The hanging the bone. The ligature comes up under the

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mandible under the jawbone, which is above the ligature above

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the Adams apple. The ligage is higher in the Adams apple.

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So he had three two fractures of the Adams apple

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and uh a fracture of the bone right above the

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apple with the highered bone. That the the liga, the

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mark on the neck didn't match the sheet ligature that

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was present in the in the cell the photograph of

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the and that this was more typical of a homicidal

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strangulation than suicide.

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Speaker 1: These are not political opinions. These are medical facts, and

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he's saying this is more of a homicide than it

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was a suicide, so he thinks somebody killed him. And

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this from an interview with dj vladd on YouTube. You

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can watch the whole thing there. But he's very certain

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that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered. He goes on talking about

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some of the more details that convinced him in the

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autopsy that Epstein was murdered.

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Speaker 2: The first autopsy a very nice autopsy, and also was

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concerned about whether it's a homicide or suicide, was considering

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it and unless the initial death certificate was the undetermined

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pending further study, but the chief Medical examine at the

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time a few days later changed it to homicide. And

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then there was a lot of information came out out

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that he was the correction officers who were supposed to

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check the sell his cell every fifteen minutes or a

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half hour didn't do that for about eight or ten hours,

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and nobody looked into the cell or on the site

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where the cell was, and that the video was didn't work,

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and there was a lot of other things came up

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to We also raise the issue of whether somebody else

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did the strangulation. But my opinion is still that it's

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more likely a homicide than a suicide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we talked about the fact that the video

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didn't work. Originally they said that, oh, the video was broken.

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Now yesterday they release a video. Well, I thought the

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camera was broken. Now the video is there. But the

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problem with the video is there's a two minute gap,

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and they're trying to explain her to say that's what

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that that's what happens every night they change tapes or something.

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So this what bothers me about this is it doesn't

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make any difference in my life whether Jeffrey Epstein was

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murdered or committed suicide. What bothers me is is that

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the government is once again into that doesn't matter which

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administration is not being transparent. And for Pam Bondy to

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come out and say, I've got the file on my desk,

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I've got the client names, we've got the videos. Well

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we got all this, and then all of a sudden,

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not all of a sudden, but months later, we don't

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have anything which story is true. And I'm looking at

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Dan Bongino and Cash Ptel and thinking, all right, they're

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they're they're keeping the company line. They'll probably survive. But

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Pam Bondy as the one who held a news conference

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and convinced everybody that they had all the details and

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we're going to release them. And a lot of people

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in MAGA world were convinced that Donald Trump was going

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to release all of this. He absolutely would not talk

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about it. Today at the cabinet meeting, they had the

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media there. He was doing his thing where he sits

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there in the whole cabinet, sits and waits for him

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to answer fifty questions from the cabinet from the media,

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and it was over well over an hour of him

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just talking to the media, and some one of the

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reporters brought up the question about Dan about Epstein, and

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Trump said, We're not going to talk about it. Here

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is the President and Pam bond at the cabinet meeting today,

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in reaction to a reporter asking about Epstein.

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Speaker 3: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been

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talked about for years. You're asking, we have Texas, we

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have this, we have all of the things, where and

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are people still talking about this guy? This creep that

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is unbelievable. Do you want to waste the time, and

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do you feel like answering.

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Speaker 4: I don't mind answering.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I can't believe you're asking a question on

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at Epstein at a time like this where we're having

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some of the greatest success and also tragedy with what

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happened in Texas. It just seems like a desecration.

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Speaker 3: But you go ahead, sure, sure.

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Speaker 4: First to back up on that, in February, I did

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an interview on Fox and it's been getting a lot

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of attention because I said I was asking a question

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about the client list.

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Speaker 3: The DOJ maybe releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.

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Speaker 6: Well, that really happened.

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Speaker 7: Sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been

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a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing

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JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the process of

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being reviewed because that was done at the directive of

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the President from all of these agencies.

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Speaker 2: So so have you seen anything there?

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Speaker 8: You said, Oh, my gosh, not yet, And my response was,

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it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed, meaning the

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file along with the JFK MLK files as well.

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Speaker 4: That's what I meant by that.

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Speaker 1: So to be fair to the president. Yeah, there are

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many more important things going on in the world, and

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he's holding the gabinet meeting and they've got all the

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things about Ukraine and about Texas, all these things that

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are important. But I will tell you, I am convinced

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this is the kind of story that will go on

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and on and on because it's who killed JFK. Speaking

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of the AFK files, they're almost completely released. They're still

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digitizing some of the records and the MLK files. No,

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they're not going to be released until twenty twenty seven,

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so they're getting around to it. And like I said,

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and the President's right, this is not as important as

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today's world events. But I'm telling you it's going to

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be who shot JR. It's going to be one of

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those conspiracy stories that just will not go away. Now,

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let's get onto the business of China. I haven't talked

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to Gordon Chang for a few years. I've always been

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impressed with him. He is about the most knowledgeable guy

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regarding China and China's relations with this country, and I

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thought I would reintroduce you to Gordon Chang and we'll

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go through China's economy, their military, Taiwan the trade war.

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So let's talk to Gordon Chang. Oh, by the way,

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he wants to make sure you know his Twitter handle,

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which is Gordon g. Chang. Let's introduce you to the audience.

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I know who you are. But you're a You're a lawyer,

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you're political analyst, you're a columnist. You've written I don't know,

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handful of books. Got any new books out that you

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want to promote. We'll start. We'll start with that. I

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mean you've done a lot of things. Yeah, let's start

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with that. You you've written a number of books. What

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do you got lately?

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Speaker 6: Okay? A couple of things. First of all, I no

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longer practice law, so we can talk lawyer. Okay, and

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you can say former lawyer. That's fine because I practiced

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in China, in Hong Kong. The most recent book is

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called Plan Read China's Project to Destroy America. Came out

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last October.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, it adds. Yeah, with a number of books,

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I saw where you did work in Hong Kong. And

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also where were you on Shanghai? Which is Shanghai? Was

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that the was that the industrial shipping magnet city of

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China when you were there? Or is that happened since.

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Speaker 6: Well, no, it's it's It's always been a financial center

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and the shipping center as well, so it's always been

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a major commercial hub for China.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Also, if the other thing is mentioned by Twitter handle

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sure ex handle, which is Pat Gordon Chi Chang GEO

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or g O n G c h A.

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Speaker 1: N G on on Twitter or x or whatever you

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want to call it. First of all, I'm curious because

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you did work in China for what I read was

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for a couple of decades as a lawyer working for

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two major law firms that I'm familiar with here in

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New York. What brought you to China? Your father is Chinese,

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your mother Scottish or something like that. But what made

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you go to China to do that? You were born

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in New Jersey.

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Speaker 6: I was born in New Jersey. I was born in

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Long Branch, New Jersey, and lived in New Jersey until

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I went to college. And the reason I went to

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China was that I was practicing law at the time.

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I was in California and my primary client was the

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Shanghai branch of Citybank, and we were traveling too much

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across the Pacific, so we finally decided that it was

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better just to move there, which is what we did

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in August of nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 1: My family's from Ireland, and my parents always bothered and

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bug me about why don't you go to Ireland and

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see where you came from? And I finally, finally, finally

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did Gordon after a long time of not doing it.

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And I was humbled to go back to where my

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father's father packed up the family and left for America.

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Was there any of that. Did you do some sort

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of road down ancestry Lane to see where your father

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came from?

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Speaker 6: Well, my dad and I went to his hometown, which

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is north of the Yung Sea River, close to Shanghai,

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but on the other side, and that was in the

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late nineteen eighties, and that certainly was humbling. That was

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a magnificent experience to see the family and to see

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where my dad came from. And since that time we

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were back the number of times, my wife and I.

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It is of course always important to see where you

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came from, but also it's important to see where you're going.

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And we were in Shanghai practicing law, and it was

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an amazing experience. But we saw the side of China

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that was very different from what people thought at the time.

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And I had always wanted to write a book. Never

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thought I had anything to say until we were in China,

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and then I saw a vision of China, a view

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of China that was very disturbing.

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Speaker 1: But I do highly recommend it sounds like you might

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jump on the same recommendation unless you're a Heinz fifty seven.

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If you know where your family came from, I really

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highly recommend that you make the effort to go to

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go see where your people came from. You did that,

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then you went to Hong Kong. And I've been to

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Hong Kong once and I loved it. Wow, what a

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free market city that was. You could do whatever you

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One of the ships in the harbor did not follow

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on the right or the left. They almost ran into

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the sandpans. It was just get the job done. I

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was amazed by Hong Kong. What was your thinking?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I moved to Hong Kong in nineteen eighty one,

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stayed there for a decade. It was amazing. I thought

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that I would never leave. It was such a vibrant city.

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We went to various cycles. I arrived at the height

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of the boot. Then it fell into a deep, deep contraction,

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and then it climbed itself back out, and Hong Kong

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is resilient. It was amazing, And it's sad to see

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Hong Kong today because the Communist Party in China has

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essentially taken it over. It is no longer separate and

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apart from the mainland as it once was. It is

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effectively part of the People's Republic of China. And it's

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not a safe place for Americans to be.

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Speaker 1: Kinda itself is not saying really, I felt very comfortable there,

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but that was oh, I know what it was, y

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two k We had January first, two thousand here in

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the US, and because Chinese New Years is later, we

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were in China in Hong Kong for the New Year

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and my gosh, Gordon, those skyscrapers are as big as

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NLC in Manhattan, and they had neon lights strung all

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the way up to the top of the buildings. They

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know how to throw a party. That was an exciting

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city on February whatever it was two thousand.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's after what they call the handovers, when Britain

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turned over Hong Kong to the Chinese, and it was

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of course a seminal event. After that, there was a

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semblance of one country, two systems, which is what the

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Chinese promised in the nineteen eighty four sign Out British

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Joint Declaration. But come to twenty when China passed its

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National Security Law for Hong Kong, it was essentially an

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annexation of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was it. Yeah over over, Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Almost over. And what we're seeing right now is China

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which is taken over Hong Kong, so it's no longer

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an autonomous region. Britain and China they came to an

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arrangement that Hong Kong would be semi autonomous. It would

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be one country, two systems, may Hong Kong people governing themselves.

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And it was a formula that did have success in

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the beginning, but after protests in twenty nineteen, China decided

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that it was now time to take over Hong Kong.

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So the fifty year period of autonomy ended essentially in

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the middle of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: And I take it from your writings and talking to

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you in the past that that was no surprise. You

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knew that that was going to happen, correct, We knew that.

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Speaker 6: It was going to happen because communists they can't help themselves.

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They first of all, they don't ever honor their promises

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when they think that they can get away with it,

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and they essentially thought they could get away with it

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because Britain was not enforcing the Sign of British Joint

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Declaration and other countries, including the US, didn't seem to

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really care. So I'm China decided it would make a

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move on Hong Kong. But communists basically in general, can't

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control themselves. They absolutely have to dominate society. They can

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never run a free market, semi autonomous city, and so

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it was inevitable. It took a little bit longer than

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I thought it would, but you know, when we're talking

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about nineteen ninety seven to twenty twenty, it was thirteen years.

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Had promised fifty years of autonomy.

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Speaker 1: That's right, So much for the promise which it brings

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up obviously Taiwan, and their promise is about Taiwan or

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whatever they're saying about Taiwan, and you've written about that.

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Let's talk to the audience about what is going to

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happen with Taiwan.

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Speaker 6: Well, the one country, two systems formula that China promised

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for Hong Kong was originally developed for Taiwan, and Taiwan

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has seen what China's done in Hong Kong and it

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wants none of it. That we're seeing in Taiwan an

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intentity that is separate and apart from China because the Taiwanese,

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by and marge do not think that they are Chinese,

359
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and we see this in self identification surveys. So, for instance,

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the Pew Research Center did a survey between June and

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September of twenty twenty three, and it showed that sixty

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seven percent of the people on the island saw themselves

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as primarily Taiwanese, only three percent saw them as primarily Chinese.

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But the really bad news in the survey was that

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in the younger age cohorts there was even less of

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a Chinese identity. For those eighteen to thirty four, eighty

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three percent saw them as Taiwanese, only only one percent

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percent saw themselves as Chinese only. And we have seen

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these survey results consistent with other surveys that have done

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on self identification. So the people in Taiwan don't think

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of themselves as Chinese, and therefore they want to maintain

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their own separate society. They want to govern themselves, they

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want to have free market.

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Speaker 1: Well what about they don't. What about the next generation Gordon,

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what's going to happen when those young men and women

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get a little older run for office.

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Speaker 6: Well, we're going to see even more of what we

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call the green forces in Taiwan, in other words, people

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who want to run their own society, separate and apart

380
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from China. And as we're seeing progressively, fewer and fewer

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people see union with the mainland as something important. So

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the two societies will continue to diverge unless China uses fourth.

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Speaker 1: Which I am no expert about China and Taiwan, but

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it could not escape me that when Joe Biden was

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in the White House, I thought, just like Vladimir Putin

386
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used the opportunity to go into Ukraine, I thought, President,

387
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she was going to that's it, this is the time

388
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to go. Biden's not going to do anything. Let's go

389
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grab Taiwan. Didn't happen.

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Speaker 6: It was different. It was different. Remember Biden in February

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of twenty twenty two was talking about it might be

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okay if there were a minor in Persian by Russia

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into Ukraine. That was a signal. But when Biden talked

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about Taiwan, he spoke in very different terms. There were

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four times when he was asked by reporters would the

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US in a Biden administration use force to prevent China

397
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from using force to a next Taiwan? And four times

398
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Biden promised to use the US military. Now, the problem

399
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,240
was that all four times his subordinates undermined him and

400
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,880
said no, that there was no change in US policy

401
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or ambiguity with the US, and not say what it

402
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was going to do.

403
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Speaker 1: But I remember what I remember his staff was, you know,

404
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,400
quick clean up on Aisle nine. The President just misspoke

405
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again because our policy has been one China policy. In

406
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other words, Taiwan and China are one and the same.

407
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And Biden said, no, they're not correct me where I

408
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get that wrong?

409
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Speaker 6: Okay? Our One China policy is complicated, and it boils

410
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down to this. We recognize Beijing, the Communist Party of China,

411
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as a legitimate government of China. We say in our

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One China policy that the status of Taiwan is undetermined,

413
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has yet to be finally determined. And we say that

414
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the status the resolution of that status must be with

415
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the consent of both sides of the Taiwan Strait, in

416
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,960
other words, China and Taiwan. So we recognize, yes, the

417
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,920
Communist Party is a legitimate government of China, but we

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don't recognize it as the legitimate government of Taiwan. What

419
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we do say we say that we quote unquote acknowledge

420
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that Beijing believes that it is the government of Taiwan,

421
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but we acknowledge it in the sense that we understand

422
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,039
that's their position, but we do not acknowledge it in

423
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the sense that we accept it. So we do not

424
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accept the notion that the People's Republic of China governs

425
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,440
Taiwan or is a legitimate government of Taiwan.

426
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Speaker 1: Do you think Joe Biden talking about yes, will use

427
00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:12,400
US forces was enough to halt President she I think it.

428
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Speaker 6: Was a factor. I think that that certainly the Chinese

429
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,279
saw the disorganization of the Biden regime, as you talked

430
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:26,920
about it, that his subordinates undermined him. And by the way,

431
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,240
that's a constitutional crisis because in our constitution, it's the

432
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:34,039
commander in chief, the President of the United States or

433
00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:37,480
makes foreign policy, not the State Department. Spokesman, not the

434
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:41,839
Secretary of Defense, not the White House spokesperson, all three

435
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,839
of those individuals contradicting Biden when he made those statements

436
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,039
about US using a military force. But put that aside

437
00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:53,440
for the moment. I think the Chinese knew what Biden

438
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:56,240
would want to do, and I think that that was

439
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,039
enough to deter them. As we know, the Chinese did

440
00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:05,359
not invade during Biden's administration. Now it was partly because

441
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,839
I think that they saw Biden's determination, but also I

442
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,200
think that they felt in China that they were not

443
00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:14,759
ready to invade Taiwan. I've got to remember, there are

444
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,960
a lot of factors that inhibit the government in Beijing

445
00:30:19,119 --> 00:30:22,119
from invading Taiwan. And it gets a little bit complicated,

446
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,039
but if I can just sort of.

447
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,079
Speaker 1: Summarize, let's go through some of those, because I do

448
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,079
want to get to the terriff issue. But the economy itself,

449
00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:36,200
I've I've been reporting on the economy here in the

450
00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:42,319
US for forty years, and I have always found that

451
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,160
whenever there's any reporting about the economic growth, the GDP,

452
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,279
whatever measure you want to use for China is always

453
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:53,640
with an eyebrow raised. A lot of people in the

454
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,559
financial world in this country, do not believe they're reporting.

455
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Speaker 6: Yeah, and they're reporting right now is even more fabricated

456
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,920
than it has been in the past. So right now,

457
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:09,079
they their most recent report for quarterly GDPs for Q one,

458
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:13,240
where they reported five point four percent growth. But that's

459
00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:16,480
really unlikely because what we're seeing right now in China

460
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,160
is deflation. So for instance, the last month for which

461
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,279
we have price data is May, and May was the

462
00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:25,880
fourth straight month where the consumer price index was in

463
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,880
negative territory year on year. May was also the thirty

464
00:31:30,079 --> 00:31:33,880
second straight month where the producer price index, which measures

465
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,400
factory gay prices, was in negative territory. That's deflation. So

466
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:42,960
deflation has gripped China. And you know, once an economy

467
00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:45,920
is in a deflationary spiral, it's very difficult to get

468
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,720
out of it. And the deflationary spiral is almost mutually

469
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,799
inconsistent with robust growth. It's just very, very difficult to

470
00:31:54,839 --> 00:31:58,160
have those two phenomena at the same time. So we

471
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,119
can say that China appears to be in contraction at

472
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this moment.

473
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Speaker 1: Which let's jump to the tariff issue then, because President

474
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Trump is I have personally, I have a problem with

475
00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:17,440
tariffs in general. Historically they're usually inflationary and supply problems

476
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,119
and everything else. Why go against all of our allies,

477
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,480
Why go against two hundred countries. Let's start with China

478
00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:29,839
because that's where the biggest egregious trade imbalance is. Why

479
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,240
not start with them? And it seems like this what

480
00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:35,839
you're just talking about, their economy isn't strong. This would

481
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,279
be a good time, I think, to bend China as

482
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:40,039
far as we can.

483
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 6: I absolutely agree with you. I think that President Trump's

484
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:46,799
implementation of the tariffs has really left a lot to

485
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:49,359
be desired. And I agree with you he should have

486
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,359
done what he did in his first term, which is

487
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,559
focus on China, because China is the country that has

488
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:59,720
almost single handedly taken down the rules based trading order

489
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:04,039
through its criminal and predatory trade practices. So this is

490
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:07,599
what he should have done. Instead, he has, as you

491
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,640
point out, going after everybody, which has made it very

492
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,240
difficult for him to build a coalition to deal with

493
00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:17,240
the most important issue, which is China.

494
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:24,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about bricks, which is Brazil, China, India,

495
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,200
Oh boy, what's the sea?

496
00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:28,359
Speaker 6: Russia, South Africa?

497
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: Russia? Yeah, yeah, that's right.

498
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 6: So they now have additional members, so that.

499
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: Yes, they've been adding countries. Is that a NATO look

500
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:40,920
alike or is that an economic group that have banded

501
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,599
together to try to basically cut off the United States's power?

502
00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 6: Well, bricks is I think unimportant and is ineffective, especially

503
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,400
as it grows larger and larger. China and Russia have

504
00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:00,400
certain goals for bricks, turn it into an anti US,

505
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,680
anti Western grouping. But unfortunately for them, there's an eye

506
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:09,679
in bricks. The eye is India India, and India does

507
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:12,199
not want to be part of an anti Western effort.

508
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,239
And India has frustrated China's and Russia's ambitions for the

509
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,000
bricks and us the problem.

510
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:23,079
Speaker 1: And does I mean you talk about Switzerland beings in

511
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,320
pro non commital India. They buddy up with Russia, they

512
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,480
buy oil from Russia, they buddy up with China, they

513
00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:33,960
budy up with Us. They're trying to be friends with everybody.

514
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 6: Right, but Modi does not want to be part of

515
00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:42,000
any anti Western coalition. And yes it's right. He does

516
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,320
a lot of things that we really do not like,

517
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,920
in which we should have posed costs on him for doing.

518
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,239
But he one thing that he's doing that we should

519
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,079
like is that he is making the bricks completely ineffective anyway.

520
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,119
Bricks would be ineffective anyway, because it's all the same

521
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:01,400
with these large groupings. You know, you take the G

522
00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:04,840
twenty or whatever. When you have a diverse group of countries,

523
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,480
you cannot have an effective organization because everybody has different goals. Yep.

524
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,000
The only time that you can get an international organization

525
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:15,840
to be effective is something like the G seven because

526
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:19,039
basically everybody's on the same page on the big issues.

527
00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true of so many organizations. Back to

528
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,559
the economy in China, then we'd hear I play a

529
00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:31,280
lot of clips from General Jack Keene and he talks

530
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,599
about how the Chinese navy is bigger than the US Navy,

531
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,199
and it looks like they're putting a lot of their

532
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,719
effort and money. It looks from afar that put it

533
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,719
into being a military powerhouse. They've already, over the last

534
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:51,400
forty to fifty years, through design, built an industrial powerhouse.

535
00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:56,039
I mean they did it by formula. Now are their

536
00:35:56,119 --> 00:35:57,960
military powerhouse? Where are they?

537
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:04,559
Speaker 6: The Chinese military on paper is extremely s fearisome. I

538
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:07,480
don't think their ships are very good ship per ship.

539
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,519
I don't think that they are an effective fighting force.

540
00:36:11,679 --> 00:36:15,519
I mean, but that's something that we'll only see the

541
00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:18,360
problem with the Chinese Navy and the Chinese and the

542
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,320
People's Liberation Army a couple of them, but one of

543
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,559
them is that it's a communist army, which means it

544
00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:27,159
has two reporting lines. It's got a military reporting line,

545
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:30,440
as every military does, but it also has something else

546
00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:34,119
and that makes it weaker, and that's a political reporting line,

547
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,920
and the political commissars are more influential than the military

548
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:44,559
reporting line. Having two reporting lines is not a good

549
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:50,320
formula for having an effective military, and we saw, for instance,

550
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,679
the Chinese Army. It's it's just ineffective. Essentially. We've seen

551
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,039
this in the repeated clashes between India and the Chinese

552
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:05,079
Army in the Himalayas, where the Indians, who are certainly

553
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:09,639
out gone, usually get the better of their Chinese counterparts.

554
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,159
Speaker 1: In these How does that differ from the US. I know,

555
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,119
we have a civilian commander in chief, we have a

556
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:21,360
civilian defense secretary, but it's the commander in chief is

557
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,079
a politician.

558
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 6: How does it differ, Well, it differs because there's only

559
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,280
one reporting line. That reporting line runs from the commander

560
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,239
in chief to the Secretary of Defense to the combat commanders,

561
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:35,679
and it's a single line. And yet of course they're

562
00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:39,599
political considerations, but there is not two reporting lines as

563
00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:43,840
there are in China. And right now we see the

564
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:49,159
Chinese military as in the midst of very fearsome purges

565
00:37:50,119 --> 00:37:54,559
where people at generals and admirals are getting sacked, left, right,

566
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:59,079
and center. And this is partly because IMPI is having

567
00:37:59,159 --> 00:38:04,039
troubles and sie Jimpang's loyalists are being removed and disappeared.

568
00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:07,519
Some are saying that some of them have been even suicided.

569
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,920
So this is a very serious situation for the Chinese military,

570
00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:16,480
and I think right now it is completely ineffective because

571
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:21,639
of these problems. Let me give you an example. General

572
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,519
hobw Dong was sie Jimping's number one loyalist in the

573
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:30,119
Chinese military, a vice chairman of the Communist Party's Central

574
00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:35,199
Military Commission and the number two uniformed officer. He has

575
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,920
not been seen in public since March eleventh, and there

576
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,800
are rumors that he was forced to commit suicide at Bay.

577
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,960
We don't know if those rumors are sure or not,

578
00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:46,079
but we know he's been out of circulation. We have

579
00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:49,880
seen other Sejimping loyalists being sacked as well, and a

580
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,440
lot of people have been saying, and you'll see this

581
00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:55,159
in the media, that Si Jimping has been getting rid

582
00:38:55,159 --> 00:38:58,400
of his own supporters, which is possible, I mean, Sie

583
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,119
Jimping could be a Doalinist like paranoid, but from corroboration

584
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,079
we have from other sources, it's pretty clear that Cigympink's

585
00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:13,119
adversaries in the military are getting rid of c gmping's loyalists.

586
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:16,840
And we know this because since July ninth of last year,

587
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,239
PLA Daily, which is the main propaganda organ of the

588
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:25,400
Chinese military, has been running articles that praise quote unquote

589
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,960
collective leadership. That's a direct slat against egmping's demand for

590
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:34,159
unity and one man rule. So those articles could not

591
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,079
have appeared if cgmping were in control of the military

592
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:40,920
interest and because those articles did appear, it's more likely

593
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:46,440
that sigmping's adversaries in uniform are getting rid of cigmping's

594
00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:50,920
loyalist in uniform, which means you have a military and turmoil.

595
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: One of I want to stay within my timeline here,

596
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,519
but I just do you have any predictions about the

597
00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:01,159
trade fight that we're in with China. We're going to

598
00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:01,519
win that.

599
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 6: Well, we should win it because by the metrics, we

600
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:08,159
are more powerful than China. But the question is whether

601
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,079
the Chinese.

602
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: Will sorry interrupt, But we keep hearing they they need

603
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:14,599
us or we need them. It seems well.

604
00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:17,079
Speaker 6: They clearly they see clearly need us more than we

605
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:21,719
need them because they're an export dominated economy we are not.

606
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,840
They need our markets. Last year they ran well, it

607
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,239
was a five two hundred and ninety four point three

608
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,639
billion or seven trades start pussys. It's an enormous number.

609
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,000
I mean trade StarPlus countries do not have ammunition in

610
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:41,159
trade wars. The only factor that is that makes this

611
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,960
complicated is will the Chinese intimidate President Trump? And so

612
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:48,320
far the Chinese have been doing a very good job

613
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,360
of intimidating, but it has not been willing to play them.

614
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:54,760
And that means that I can't tell you who's going

615
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,400
to win this trade war, because there's one person who

616
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,280
determines whether we win this trade war or not. It's

617
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,800
in his hands. It's a guy named Donald John Trump.

618
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,719
And by the way, his addresses sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue,

619
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,559
Northwest Washington, DC. And if you tell me what Trump's

620
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:11,000
going to do, I can tell you who's going to

621
00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:15,280
win the trade bar But until that happens, we don't know. No,

622
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:16,039
we don't.

623
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:19,559
Speaker 1: Garden. You're a font of great information. You always are.

624
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,320
It's been way too long. I really appreciate you taking

625
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,000
the time to share all of this with the audience today. Gordon,

626
00:41:27,079 --> 00:41:28,360
thank you very much.

627
00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:31,639
Speaker 6: Well, thank you, Tom. I really appreciate it.

628
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,599
Speaker 1: You bet we'll talk again again. His Twitter handle is

629
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:42,079
at Gordon g Chang and guy you should follow. He's

630
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,480
right on top of what's going on with everything. And

631
00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:47,159
it's not a trade war. It's an AI war that

632
00:41:47,199 --> 00:41:49,079
we have with China trying to figure out who's going

633
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:54,639
to win that whole competition. There is, however, so much

634
00:41:54,679 --> 00:42:01,039
competition in the US that reports are out today Apple's

635
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:06,039
the head of AI for Apple is leaving to join Meta,

636
00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:10,480
and that Zuckerberg is hiring the best of the best

637
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,280
anywhere in the tech world that no AI to come

638
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,920
to work for Facebook or Meta. This is a reporter

639
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:22,760
over on CNBC talking about the poaching that's going on

640
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,480
in Silicon Valley so that.

641
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:29,079
Speaker 9: Hire would be roaming. Pung the architect behind Apple's foundational models,

642
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:31,599
and he's not just walking away from a big job,

643
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:34,679
he's walking away. You could see it as walking away

644
00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:38,480
from Apple's entire AI thesis. Now, Pung ran a one

645
00:42:38,559 --> 00:42:42,239
hundred person team that builds lms powering Apple Intelligence. So

646
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,559
that's gen moji, writing tools, photo and video editing, and

647
00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:48,159
what is supposed to or at least was supposed to

648
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,960
power the new series. So essentially, Pung is at the

649
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,440
center of Apple's bet that on device models could compete

650
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:57,679
with existing AI leaders like open Ai and Google. At

651
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:00,000
the same time, though, Apple has been undercutting his team

652
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,760
mandate by leaning more on third party models. Remember Eddie

653
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,920
q'es praise for perplexity and anthropic as part of his

654
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,559
Google testimony. There's reports that Apples and Talks replace Series

655
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:12,760
back end with Claude or Chat Gibt.

656
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 4: That's gotta hurt morale.

657
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 9: And it's not surprising then that when your company starts

658
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,840
shopping for a replacement for the work that you are doing,

659
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:23,400
you leave, and then there's Meta and Zuckerberg ready with

660
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,800
a new package reportedly worth tons of millions of dollars

661
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:29,639
and a bench that is quickly becoming a who who

662
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,440
of AI talent, and a mission that hits at the

663
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,199
purpose researchers care most about right now, that is building

664
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,159
something that can compete at the frontier or be first

665
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:42,719
to what comes after Superintelligence or AGI. So while this

666
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,119
looks like a win for Meta, this may be something

667
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:48,159
far more damaging for Apple, yet another crack in its

668
00:43:48,199 --> 00:43:51,440
internal AI efforts. With Pung Goon too and Zuckerberg still

669
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,599
on the hunt, others could follow. We did a quick

670
00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:55,519
linked in search guys for some of the other AI

671
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:59,239
researchers still at Apple. On that team, it includes talent

672
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,079
from Google, Deep Mind, Bite dance PhDs from Berkeley. Now

673
00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:07,480
perhaps low hanging fruit for someone like Zackerberg.

674
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: Some of the last minute news items coming out today

675
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,800
is that the Supreme Court has given President Trump the

676
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,440
go ahead to proceed with large scale personnel cuts. A

677
00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:23,320
lot of lawsuits saying stop stop, don't you can't cut

678
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,719
all these people. Supreme Court said yes, he can go

679
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,719
ahead and do that. President also ratcheting up the tariff wars,

680
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,920
saying August first deadline is not going to change. That

681
00:44:35,079 --> 00:44:38,719
was supposed to be tomorrow July ninth, that got postponed

682
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,840
until August first. He says, no, no, no, no, no,

683
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,039
we're not going to change August first. That's it. Okay,

684
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,000
we'll believe it when we see it. Also, he says,

685
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:53,639
copper tariffs are going to be forty percent. I have

686
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:57,199
to pay forty percent more to bring copper into this country.

687
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,920
And that pharmaceutical He's going to give them some months

688
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,639
to adjust, but pharmaceutical tariffs will be two hundred percent.

689
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,400
That's the opening ante on all of that. As far

690
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,519
as Wall Street today, the Dow finished lower, down one

691
00:45:13,639 --> 00:45:17,320
hundred and sixty five, the Dow at forty four thousand

692
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:23,039
and two, forty SMP down four, NASDAK up six. The

693
00:45:23,079 --> 00:45:26,000
price of gold fell thirty dollars to thirty three to twelve,

694
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,559
and oil up part of a dollar now at sixty

695
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:34,480
eight dollars for one barrel of oil. So that's it

696
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:37,559
for today. Thank you for coming by. We'll be here

697
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:39,039
again tomorrow. I hope you are too,