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Speaker 3: Leaning a man.
Speaker 2: O great. Uh, he's a wondering bird. There was supposed
to be an intro there, but that you've broken. He's
not doing anything.
Speaker 3: So remember why do we get the first second?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I did it again. Let's can we try again one
more sil Let's try sure, leaning a man.
Speaker 7: Like this man learn butterfly flatin his wing, big ban
in on the forest.
Speaker 2: Man. It will cause a tree.
Speaker 7: Fall leven five miles a man.
Speaker 3: Nobody see, nobody might see. You don't need no man.
He got back up, go back and back the pan.
Speaker 2: All right, bird, welcome to jabird show.
Speaker 3: You just gotta do it twice.
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how frustrated I am with stream yards.
So I actually brought my full recording set up like
everything I'll use and uh it just didn't work, like
refuse to work. The exact same setup simply transported to
a different location. And uh, I'm already switching with podcasting.
Uh host I use because it's such a pained use
lips and uh, I'll be on a street nerds unnotice
too if I can find someone else to let me
do live streaming. This, this level of service is astonishingly poor.
Speaker 3: I've never had a problem with restream, but I don't
do live streaming. Are we live? Are there people watching
right now?
Speaker 2: No? There are, but every like every three to four
weeks I decide to go live, and so that somehow
justifies my uh my purchase of this awful software. Isn't
this great podcasting? Just podcasters complaining?
Speaker 3: You sound so sick?
Speaker 2: I really do. It's that bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you I literally lie. You sound like you could
be in a hospital bed right now.
Speaker 2: That's funny. I feel like it, okay, sick that much.
And even this one, it's like the voice sounds worse
to actually feel. But without fail dissident soaks will just
comet grids time I sound anything less than perfectly healthy,
And that's acknowledging. The bit is probably the worst thing
I could ever do. But it's gotten in my head
so much that literally, every time I feel a tickle
in the back of my throat, that's all I can
think about. Like I don't have grids, I don't have grits.
Speaker 3: I commend you for podcasting while sick, because I will not.
I refuse to do it, and the listeners will simply
have to deal with that.
Speaker 8: Well.
Speaker 2: See, this is the difference. It Actually, this brings us
to our thanksgiving gimmick, the difference between my religious tradition
and yours. So obviously you know that the work ethic
is part of it. But uh, are you familiar? Are
you familiar with one Jack Chick?
Speaker 3: Of course, I'm a huge fan of Jack Chick.
Speaker 2: Me too. How did you discover his work.
Speaker 3: By being Catholic on the internet?
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see, despite growing up in the Bible Belt,
I never encountered any of his material until I was probably,
I don't know, fifteen or sixteen, and there was some
lady vaguely connected to, you know, my parents, who had
worked in college admissions, and she had this great grift
set up where she would like take a bunch of
kids for like a week in summer and teach them
how to get into college. Now did this work? No, well,
didn't get anyone into college. No, it did make her
marginally wealthier, which I think was the real goal. But
she did this like college prep camp, which was just
getting lectured at by a lady with short guide blonde hair,
and like an old Baptist church out in the middle
of nowhere. And so during like some session where she
had half the group in, half the group out, we're
just wandering around and we're in the basement, and we
found two things which were incredibly entertaining. One the late
nineties toy mister Bucket, infamous for slatious bagline. And the
other thing was a like comedic trash bag full of
Jack Chick tracks which are funny. And so I'm discovered
that you can read all of these Chick tracks on
his website, including ones on false religions, including Catholicism. Soberto,
your Thanksgiving is being in the hot seat. I'm gonna
make you defend.
Speaker 3: A little apologetics. Great, my favorite subject. The problem. I
have to say, what do you mean by Bible belt
like deep South?
Speaker 2: I won't say exactly where I live, but in a
place where multiple very famous evangelical preachers are from.
Speaker 3: Okay, event, that's kind of I should have asked it
in that way. That's kind of what I was more
so asking was what was the church environment that you
So you grew up in what would be called an
evangelical which, as far as I have come to understand,
does not mean very much specifically, So you grew up
in a non denominational evangelical no situation.
Speaker 2: I grew up in the same faith pudition I'm a
part of now, which is like oftentimes called a reform tradition,
which is basically John Calvin tends to be.
Speaker 3: Very you're a presby?
Speaker 2: Are you a presby?
Speaker 3: Doesn't count? That surely can't count, does evangelical.
Speaker 2: But here's what I'm saying. But my grandparents, who spent
large forces of my childhood raising me, did go to
like multiple giant Baptist churches out in the middle or like,
and so I didn't. So it was always kind of
jarring because that's not the church that I went to
every Sunday, but I'd end up there, you know, thirty
percent of the time. So I was very much aware
of the uh, the contrast, this is how I got
shown outpaida execution videos like fourth grader youth Faster who
was like, this is what Muslims are gonna do to you? Yeah,
what's a Muslim.
Speaker 3: Read this? Yeah? So I suppose you probably missed out
on Jack Chick because he isn't as far as I
understand it, and has never been a like standard.
Speaker 2: You know Bible belts see sternally focused like going after
the other guys. You know.
Speaker 3: Well, he certainly is a parody, comic or whatever you
would call that. He writes, uh parodies. But I actually,
if I'm not mistaken, Jack Chick's work is largely suppressed
or at least ignored by Southern Baptist, Methodist Presbyterian churches
as far as I understand it, because what I do
know about Jack Chick is that, first of all, the
how would you say this? You know, like LifeWay, you
know that store, you know, life Way, So LifeWay didn't
carry Chick materials, and so because of that, it never
really circulated around.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 3: Those three I guess those are the evangelical traditions, Southern Baptist,
United Methodist, and the Presbyterian, at least the more conservative Presbyterian.
Speaker 2: Here's so basically not to get too much into this,
but basically, eatangelical as a term is incredibly broad, and
it can mean one of several things. Probably the most
honest literal description, which doesn't matter, is basically conservative Protestant.
And that goes back to effectively what's called the modernist
crisis in Protestant Christianity, which is about one hundred and
ten years ago. You have what are now considered the
mainline denominations, which if you've ever seen like Protestant rage
bait on the internet, which is like some shor haired
aging lesbian from like Massachusetts.
Speaker 3: You're like PCUSA or one or whatever.
Speaker 8: It is.
Speaker 2: Every denomination, Yeah, every subgroup had a slit in the
nineteen twenties. The reason it was called the modernist crisis
is that a lot of old American institutions like Harvard
and Yale were like seminaries and they had basically, by
the standards of our time, quote unquote, gone awoke, and
it started pushing out ideas in birth.
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna say, what is woke in the
nineteen twenty is that, okay, yes, denying the version, denying
so scientism cut right like kind of like denying miracle
and that's okay.
Speaker 2: Almost every single faith group in the US. And if
you're wondering why are there so many like splintering like
factional groups, this is largely why because when people left,
they didn't all leave it once. They did and all
leave in the same direction. And so basically the main
line group is now all the Protestant churches that are
pretty much dead. That evangelical groups are those that remain.
And those terms are inexact because, for instance, you have uh,
you know, churches that contain the word evangelical where they
have bishops. They're very fuzzy. But that's probably the broadest term.
Now when we talk about evangelical culture, that refers to
something more specific, that is the as you said, the
kind of like Baptist, non denominational, like mass market Christian culture.
That culture is actually, weirdly enough, much like Mormon's, extremely
self conscious and interested in being acceptable. So when you
look at the kind of like sneakers with preachers stuff,
like the kind of.
Speaker 3: Church is that like Justin Bieber goes to and sure
like backwards caps sitting on the chair of the wrong way.
Speaker 2: That is an outgrowth of that where they're really trying
to lean it and so Jack Chick is a he's
a he's a relic of the bad times, and there's
a desire to kind of string him under the rug
because of the city. Either kind of comedic. Now, also, right,
you and I have a friend in common. I don't
know by what name you know him, but he's sort
of like a a very Catholic guy, different name on
different platforms, but he'll know what.
Speaker 3: I don't know who you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Actually, she's my mole in quote the Catholic discord.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, yes, our Catholic fraternal discord channel very powerful.
Speaker 2: By the way, make sure if you're wondering if this character.
Speaker 3: You have multiple people who you talk to who are
involved in that you a few moles actually.
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Speaker 2: You're wondering a source of some of the worst memes
on that I am fortunately responsible.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you? Can I? Can I tell you?
Oh no, please continue? And then I want to tell
you something you may not know about Jack Jack Okay.
Speaker 2: Well, for instance, I was telling him about this idea,
uh and the fact that I find Jack Chick to
be genuinely like hilaritous, and he was like, oh, yeah,
I remember this because you know in his you know,
small town in the middle of nowhere, Missouri. Uh, the
Catholic church that he grew up going to was right
next to the craziest Pentecostal church in Town, the one
that basically, you know, they you know, flopped on the ground,
you know, tongues all that.
Speaker 3: Not evangelical, right not? Yes, okay, yes that's not Protestants.
Possibly evangelical.
Speaker 2: No, they are well by Protestants.
Speaker 3: Well so I don't know, man, Okay, I'm just trying
to learn.
Speaker 2: This is like you're trying to explain the Jesuits to me.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, wait, well, we're gonna talk a lot
about the Jesuits and of just shortly, by the way, I.
Speaker 2: Also want you to know it is not really in
any cohesive argument. I just find Jade it be very
funny too, and more funny exposing him to someone who
kind of knows what he is trying to get at
instead of me where I'm just like, I don't know.
He's talking about Ishtar, the Virgin Mary. Uh so Pentecostal
the way you look at the like crazy like South
American stuff. It's kind of how Protestants you Pentecostals. We
we're like, I guess there ares I.
Speaker 3: Guess, Oh, crazy South American stuff like the Catholic Communists,
like the Liberation theology stuff is weird, like, oh, they're syncretic. Oh, okay,
mm hmmm, where you're.
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, I guess I can't like you're more hours
than anything else. Sure, it's it's a very much a
weird mix of and again I know I'm gonna get
people mad, but like wich mix of weird African stuff.
It's a whole bizarre history there we don't need to
get into.
Speaker 3: I like the idea, by the way, I think talking
about the italianness of the Vatican as being weird African stuff.
Speaker 2: That's what I was referring to. May make that argument.
Uh So, there are several things that actually you this
I can speak in your language here. Bert uht Chick
is sort of American morality play that it follows the
exact same formula as like a medieval morality play right,
like something you might see in like you know, seventh
seal right when they're following the traveling play rights around
where there's two distinct paths. There's either the you know,
the the altar call, or there is you know, the
rejection of God, the rejection of logos to quote one
of your guys, and most of my main cartoon astonishments
immediately like stepping.
Speaker 3: Around, well that I mean that is possibly one of them.
Interesting things about Jack Chick is that he was a
lot like Robert Crumb in that he had a classic
Disney style of depicting people, but he also had these
like grotesque so be said, like people had these Disney
eyes and Disney bodies, but they were burning in pits
of flame and skewered on pikes. And this is these
like horrific grotesque images over this vaguely Disney style.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: It really was brilliant shock value stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh no, And that's exactly if you can imagine, right,
you know, fourteen year old burdenman Cole and digging through
the dusty church basement in the middle of nowhere, opening
up a trash bag and finding exactly that, right, what
appears to be a kind of generic, you know, religious comic,
you know, from a previous generation, and then flipping the
page and it's some like grotesque man in full leather
gear he directed. Give it the hell? Yeah, yeah, this
is enough to grab attention.
Speaker 3: How much do you actually know about Jack Chick the Man?
Speaker 2: Uh? Literally nothing?
Speaker 3: Okay, So you so he was first of all, he
was the ultra philo Semite. He was a uh, he
was a premillennial dispensationalist. He's, as far as I understand it,
he has never written a particularly negative tract against that group.
And one more, hold on, wait because this is the kicker. Wait,
this is a kicker. He believed, or at least depicted
in his comics that the Jesuits committed the Holocaust. Yes,
it wasn't just a Nazi project, it was it was
an or it was a basically an inquisition that was
orchestrated by the Jesuits.
Speaker 2: So Jack Chick's website is broken down by different categories.
And you remember what I introduced a series on Catholicism.
I said that it was filed under false religions and then, yeah,
you don't have any other religions feature in that. Uh
two two there are two which is Mormon, no Catholics,
Oh okay, Islam.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's also.
Speaker 2: Fourteen different tracks in the quote black tract series, which
I don't know if I can this.
Speaker 3: Oh, so way, Judaism is not in the false religions.
Speaker 2: Is not mentioned.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, because he has made comics. Uh. For instance,
there is one he's probably his most famous tract, uh,
regarding Judaism, regards like a rabbi who on his deathbed
discovers that Jesus is the Messiah. That's the worst thing
he could think of.
Speaker 2: The death ed conversion is a common one. Uh. One
of my favorite ones in his uh his urban series
is one called It's Let's Make a Deal, which is
about a UH man who sells his soul to the
devil uh and it becomes really good at basketball.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. He had such an inventive mind. I don't know,
is this is so much you could say? But so so?
Uh So you said you discovered chick tracks in just
a box in a basement on a completely organ. Okay, interesting,
very interesting. So what they were kind of known for,
especially during what you call the Satanic Panic, which was
like what seventy five to eighty five probably at its speak,
they would go, well, he and his adherents, I don't
really know. One thing I was never sure was like
under what form did his adherents take form? Because he
wasn't a pastor as far as I understand it, but regardless,
he had devotees or at least admirers of his work.
And what they would do is they would do something
that I really admire actually, which I would call I
would call gorilla evangelism. Gorilla evangelism is what I would
call it. And what they would what they would basically
go around and do is Jack Chick would make and
print out the zines and then they would leave them
in public places, so like they pin them up in
a laundromat board, or they'd leave them in phone booths
or on restaurant tables. They so they would do this.
One thing they did which I was reading about because
you had prepped me about this a while ago, and
so I went back into Jackchick. One thing that I
saw that they had done is they Jack Chick made
the back of one of the zines look like a
dollar bill.
Speaker 8: It was.
Speaker 3: Like a Masonic it was supposed to be like an
anti Masonic ledger, and they made the back of it
look like a dollar bill. And then they would just
kind of leave them on the ground because people thought
it was money, and then they would pick it up
and find out it was a Jack Chick tract. So
I really admire this style of trickery me too.
Speaker 2: And Bird, let me offer you a hypothetical deal. I
will either give you one dollar or a ninety two
year old's recluse his personal theory about the Mason's hand
illustrated wish to your bill.
Speaker 3: It's exactly exactly right to me. That's delivering value right there.
You pick it up, you think dollar, you pick it up,
and it's really basically one hundred dollars bill in your
hand right there.
Speaker 2: It's priceless. I mean, you've done well with your uh,
your radio Babbylon series. And I think one of the
big areas for improvement is that, uh, the host you're covering,
he might be onto something. I think that's all wrong.
You need to find someone who is clearly onto nothing.
Speaker 7: Just ran.
Speaker 2: That's I think the direction the series needs to take.
Speaker 3: After your we have actually been outlining a crazy person
that we may cover as a joke. So you're onto
something there.
Speaker 2: All right, So I'm going to in bluck. I'm not
going to read through these. There's there's a little bit
of leftist memory in these, which is they can be
pretty dense as regards text, and again, this is primarily
an audio show to summarize what we're looking at. Uh,
let me you.
Speaker 3: You've got to put this up on video. I don't know.
I don't want to pressure you, but or you have
to name the comics so people can look at it
with us.
Speaker 2: All right, can you see that bird?
Speaker 3: Wow? What a great website.
Speaker 2: This is a great website.
Speaker 3: Oh you can buy them as cases.
Speaker 2: That's amazing, only twenty one cents each.
Speaker 3: Amazing. All right, dungeons that they're gonna find a lot
of dungeons and dragons stuff here too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So for context, this is one of several tracks
on Catholicism will be awful truth. So it starts off
explaining Satan, right, so he gets kicked out of heaven.
How he wants to take you all the hell? You
just kind of basic stuff. There is this particular panel
to the Only Amusing where he talks about giving the
land of Cane and his offspring. Oh shoot, how do
I get back to this?
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Speaker 2: Well you can see, uh, the devil there pick a
great profile pictures all that is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a great one.
Speaker 2: There's so many, there are so many. And by the way,
for this goes in a direction I guarantee you were
not expecting. Okay, So the first like eight or nine
pages basic you know, gospel stuff. But here right after
Jesus goes back up to Hell talking about early church history,
talking about the persecution of Christians. She'd given his Holy
Scriptures to the a church and you know, will not
make him the details there.
Speaker 5: But.
Speaker 2: Another great proleist.
Speaker 3: Satan would make. Satan would make his own church. It
would be powerful and called holy, and it's Satan hugging
the dome of the Vatican. And uh now, obviously we
could make some remarks about Satan's physiognomy here, but I
find it remarkable how Porto rican he looks actually.
Speaker 2: You know, uh, I guarantee you, mister chick has not
thought about either of the implications of That makes this
very funny. This is maximally conspiratory along someone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: Credible on others true. This is sort of like Denver Riggleman,
who you know this is?
Speaker 3: Look at page twelve. The ruthless Caesars of Rome were
replaced by a den of religious vipers. The pope says,
how do I look? And some priests goes like God.
Speaker 2: So it's talking about how they created new rituals that
were not of God, and weird new words appeared like quote, hopes, nods, adult,
which I just like how everything is put into uh
put in the scare quotes, the.
Speaker 3: Uh so we're gonna bigger lies came the precious faithful
Catholics were being set up for hol and there's the Pharisees.
Look at the transition from Pharisee to Jesuit. By the way,
transition is awesome. Wow, I forgot the Jesuits read the Talmud.
Speaker 2: Uh so, by the way, man, look at page fifteen,
we are already going away.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, okay, okay, yeah, can we cover page fifteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the page fourteen the Council
of trind that's amusing, but.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, so let me read it page fifteen. Read this, yeah, yeah,
So there's a couple of different lines, the topmost line
and then it splits three ways. The topmost line says
Roman Catholicism is called quote the Great Whore, the mother
of Harlot's see Revelations seventeen through nineteen. Here are only
three of her deadly daughters. Now, listeners who can't see this,
take take take three guesses in your mind as to
what the deadly daughters of Roman Catholicism are, and then
will I will now read them. Number one Islam created
to eliminate Christians and Jews in the Middle East. Like mother,
like daughter, both want to rule the world. Okay, that
was the first one. Number two Communism, the child of
Roman Catholicism, created to take over the world through revolution
and executions. Communism is alive and well, hiding under names
like progressive and state capitalism.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, base Jack chick therein of base.
Speaker 3: And number three, the third deadly daughter of the Great Whore,
Nazism created to make the world Roman Catholic and terminate
the Jewish people, pushed by Pope Pious the eleventh.
Speaker 2: Which is a a It's a different take than you
often see from miss certain because normally they will lean
into the pagan elements of yeah that's true, yeah, which
I think is this is why you know, you were
joking about the connection the you know, Jesuits had with
a certain ethnic cleansing. Uh. I sort of thought you
were kind of joking until I got to this point
and everyone's like, oh no, that's actually that's the genuine belief.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the take, you know, I can I say
just and this is maybe the funniest part. Possibly a
tenth of your audience right now is going has he
lied yet?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: At least one tenth of your audience is fully bought
into everything so far, possibly a corner of your audience.
Speaker 2: Not only that, but the roughly five to ten percent
of my orthodox audience are furiously typing out how they're
the specialist you appreciatedy, and how this is stupid fractual
in fighting.
Speaker 3: Oh well I have something. I have something for them, actually, Okay.
One thing that I read was that in a different tract, chick.
It's called the Godfathers, or rather it's part of the Yes,
it's called the Godfathers. Is the the tract part of
his Alberto comic series. He argues that the Vaikan created
communism because now listen to this. He argues that the
Vatican created communism not just to do what it says
in this tract, but also to destroy the Russian Orthodox Church.
So he which I am. There's plenty of Russian Orthodox
who are probably ready to get on board with that one,
but yeah, he he is. Basically it was a big
betrayal because the idea was that once the Communists destroyed
the Czar and the Orthodox Church, they were going to
allow the Roman Catholic Church to move in and uh
fill the vacuum. But once Lenin and the Bolsheviks seized power,
obviously that they.
Speaker 2: Can really start. They just start Catholics, those guys.
Speaker 3: Yes, and and certainly not any other thing, by the way,
certainly not any other thing.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to guess. Okay, what
is the next piece of history after page nineteen, which
covers Martin Luther, where do you think we go?
Speaker 3: Hold on, let me see, so innocent, the third, who
was very based Pope. The other the tenth, who is
also very based. Okay, so Luther was marked Ford. Okay,
so this is the end of Worm's era. Okay. The
next thing we're talking about is.
Speaker 2: We'll get the you're wrong.
Speaker 3: Oh, I never would have guessed. This is what I'm saying.
I never would have guessed. Wait a minute, wait, Roman
Catholics engineered the assassination of President Lincoln. What that's not
even fair.
Speaker 2: This is what I'm saying. This is what this is.
What makes it distract so fun is that you think,
you know, being kind of you've been around conspiracy culture
as long as I Hadberg, right, you start to notice patterns.
Your pattern recognition will not help you here. It never
goes where you think it's to go.
Speaker 3: I have no idea if Jack Chick ever wrote a
tract about the Klan. Now that I'm thinking about it,
I'm looking it up right now, because that's an outrageous accusation. Okay.
And the next one is about JFK.
Speaker 14: Yeah, so the next one says, the next one says,
it was said that JFK put the US Constitution above
Catholic dogma.
Speaker 3: Did that cost him his life. Ex Jesuit priest Alberto
Rivera claims it did, and that's why he brought Oswald
into Texas. Oh, I get it. Okay. So this is
so funny because there's two There's this strand of belief,
which is admittedly extremely marginal, but then there's the much
wider belief that JFK was a Catholic infiltrator who wanted
to basically create an integralist empire in the United States.
So you're as a Catholic, you're kind of getting it
from both sides, even though the first side is very
marginal and small. It's actually really funny. It's like, can
we get a we need a break here, we need
Cat's cats, some kind of break.
Speaker 2: You're really gonna get from both sides there.
Speaker 3: I know, what are you looking at? Right? That's what
I think.
Speaker 2: It's less entertaining than what I'm looking for. We'll go
We'll go to another one. So this is it's a deal,
right deal, which is from a different series. This is
from his uh, his Urban Gospel one. Right, So we've uh,
We've got Ben's Nell, right, who's on the orches, straight
and narrow. He's doing well, he's gonna get married. This
is another great profile. There's so many good ones. Is
so grotesque, but uh.
Speaker 3: Look at how he draws black people.
Speaker 2: That is incredible.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's like that. But it's like it's almost like
the Boon Docks and almost looks like the Boon Docks.
Speaker 2: So it's uh, brothers the victim of a of a
drive by shooting. Again, man, you or I couldn't draw this.
Only no, no, only he could. So his brother has killed,
everyone cries, comes to his brother's shouteral uh. He decides
he needs to do a deal with the devil, sell
his soul to be famous. And this man, who additionally
looks like sort of a of a boon Dock states
or Boon Docks as character.
Speaker 3: Y oh my god. Yeah, we should actually read this
one in black scent.
Speaker 2: I can't for Thanksgiving. I'm already on good ice with
the coming out of this room. It's all that you
do it if you want, because this only gets better
and you go through the back half of this.
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Speaker 3: So they need a pimp. They're playing some basketball. The
pimp is named Denzel.
Speaker 2: No Denzel as our hero.
Speaker 3: The hero is Denzel My apologies.
Speaker 2: So he confirms that a man who basically says, you know,
what what are you doing back here? Is implying this
is the man who shot his brother, and he said,
watching me sink that basket from here and shoots a
full court shot with his power from the devil Ah
six months later.
Speaker 3: That is incredible. The full court shot is an incredible image.
Speaker 2: What do you think about this? It's it's a modern
day Faust, right. The details are slightly.
Speaker 3: Different, far more brilliant than Faust.
Speaker 2: They win the championship game and got his his hummer one.
Speaker 3: Uh sure, the Maybach the extendo Maybak.
Speaker 2: Give you a second, I'm going to find the Can
you still see the screen here?
Speaker 3: No, it's it's blanked out. Let me tell you what
I am currently learning while you are searching. Let me
tell you what I am currently learning about his theory
regarding the creation of the ku Klux Klan, which having
read three of these tracks, you'll be able to clearly
guess who he thought formed it. Take one, guess who
he thought formed the ku Klux Klan.
Speaker 2: Was it the Catholics?
Speaker 3: It was the Vatican? Yeah, it was. It's always, by
the way, it's always the Vatican. He always targets the Vati.
He doesn't actually target Catholics. He views us the way
he views Jews. I think that we're just sort of
lost until we, you know, we find the truth. But
the Vatican, he says, the Vatican created the ku Klux Klan.
And this is a part of what Chick called I
think he actually called this, but I would certainly call
it this. It's called unified field theory, which is basically
the idea that Catholicism has created every bad thing. Ever,
so the idea is to convinced. Okay, so here it is,
I'll try to convince you. Number one, he argued that
the KKK was created by the Vatican as an active,
controlled opposition. This is the first supposition that he has
the Vatican. Basically, the Vatican said, there's all these legitimate
Bible believing Christians that hate the Pope, and so to
kind of defame them and make them bad, the Jesuits
created the KKK as a violent, racist, Protestant terror group,
and by doing that he was able to link the
Vatican to anti Catholicism, and so he was able to
kind of create a Catholic Church that plays both sides right. Obviously,
another thing, of course, we just saw the historical revisionism,
which is again heavily featured in the Alberto series where
the Jesuits were behind the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. So
what are the reasons the proofs that he gives lays
out in the Alberto series for the KKK number one,
the visual evidence and to the chick, this was the strongest.
They have a capi rote, you know, the tall cap,
they have the smock, and they they did marches in
a processional style much like what occurs in Spain during
Holy Weeks, specifically in the city of Seville, where the
penitents and flagulence will go down the street. And this
is what this is what American blacks see every year,
go around and they go, oh my god, the Klan
and the and all the Catholics are like, you guys
have got to learn to read. So that's the first evidence.
He basically argued that the liturgical you know, costume that
was imported from Spain was it was meant to mock
Protestants in a way, which I'm not even going We've
done Mystery Babylon. I'm not even gonna focus on this.
If you want to know, I've actually I think I
have addressed this specific thing before on a Mystery Babylon episode.
But anyway, number two, number two, the Confederate generals who
claimed infiltration from the Vatican. So Jefferson Davis uh. Chick
claimed that the Pope this was the only world leader
that the Pope recognized was Jefferson Davis was very very specific.
Speaker 2: But you remember that he also recognized, at least according
to the previous comic, a certain Austra Haty Chancellor.
Speaker 3: Well sure, I mean, yes, different pope, but yes, that's
actually that's part of the point is he will tie
that in later.
Speaker 2: But of course it's just like like Pentecostal reditism, like
the plane all on the same side.
Speaker 3: Well, of course, but the most damning one was Nathan Bedford.
Forrest was a Freemason, and so you go, well, every
Catholic who's listening is going so that surely can't be
our guy, right, No, no, no, no, Chick believes that
Freemasonry itself was controlled by the Black Pope, who was
the Jesuits General. That's the leader of the Jesuits. Is
called the Black Pope in a derogatory way, because the
idea is that he's sort of the underground Pope, the
Black Pope. No, no, no, not as far as I
am you have seen lately. I think he's a little
Asian man today. So basically his claim is that wild
Chick was a you know, exoterically a rabid anti Catholic Mason,
which is what Catholics are always saying about Masons. But anyway,
he was actually because masonry itself was a foundational a
foundation of the Jesuits. Forrest was actually just a pawn
of the Vatican. So no matter what you do, you
are either a Catholic subverter or a Catholic pawn one
way or another. So the final point, and this is
this is maybe an interesting one to some people. And
I didn't know about this, I admit I'm googling this one.
There is the testimony of a man named Charles Chiniqui.
And Charles Chiniqui was a former Catholic priest who was
excommunicated in the eighteen fifties and thereafter became an anti
Catholic Presbyterian minister who wrote a book called Fifty Years
in the Church of Rome, where he claimed the Jesuits
were responsible for starting the Civil War and assassinating Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, dude, can I be honest?
Speaker 3: I wish the Jesuits were this good. I wish the
Jesuits moved like this, but they don't. They don't. It's
just they fumble everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'm going to think that, uh, you know
Chesterton's point right, that you know, God loves the Catholic
Church because there's no other than such an in calm organization.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't like the Jesuits very much. It's actually
a Catholic pastime to not like the Jesuits. So in
some ways I'm sort of agreeing with Checked about some
of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so here's as an outside observer what I noted
about your people hobbies include complaining about the Jesuits, are
talking about how you're completely unified, and then the moment
that anyone talks about really any other ethnic group being
like the day'll count, and then not understanding what you
actually think as a group. Right, But in all seriousness,
so I want you to read Bird really these first
two panels here, because we're starting to see you will
hear echoes of other conspiracy theories directed towards other Austin
targeted groups where it's effatically just been mad lips, right,
and you can substitute Catholic for an out the term,
and it can really have come from a completely different website.
So the first one is less important. There's some wild
claims made there.
Speaker 3: So page two to five, Page two to.
Speaker 2: Five, Page three and four, really.
Speaker 3: Okay, Page three and four, well we should read too,
so that we set this up at least here. Here's
what it says. There's an over there's a header that reads,
is there a slight chance that the Roman Catholic in
quotes lowercase church is not is really not Christian? Think
of the horrifying consequences and then he lists said a
bunch of horrifying consequences.
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, I'll be honest, I admire his
flair for rhetoric, like just leading with like the conversational
overhand right of think of the horrifying consequences in all
caps in a second box, like he's not wasting your time.
Speaker 3: I love that these all look like they were made
on microsoftwer PowerPoint. I like that they all have the
kind of visual elements.
Speaker 2: This is from Oh, these ones don't have a date.
I think this is from the mid seventies.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: Five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that peak of that. All right, let me see
the remainder of Okay, so page two reads, let's study
Helen's life as a devout Roman Catholic, and then now
we'll do pagtree. Helen's first sacrament is the sacrament of baptism.
The Roman Catholic in Capital Institution says that it is
one of seven channels of grace through which Helen hopes
to be saved. Helen cannot be exposed to Yes, yes.
Speaker 2: This g's while off the rip, like we are about
to descend into methists.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, okay. Helen cannot be exposed to Jesus in
parentheses the blessed sacrament the wayfer God, because she is
under the influence of evil spirits. The priest exercises, Oh,
I gotta go back to that.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, oh, what happened here?
Speaker 4: Darn it?
Speaker 3: Sorry, there we are. Okay.
Speaker 2: Another streams oh, you can't.
Speaker 3: Freeze the page. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. The priest
exercises the demons by anointing Helen with oil and putting
salt in her mouth to preserve her from future influence
of evil spirit that may have I have. I don't
think I'm but there was no salt in my baptism
as far as I'm aware. I don't know if this
was going on in the eighties anyway.
Speaker 2: Then she is baptized, sold your soul to the wafer
God for God.
Speaker 3: The way for God like a like a hostess. Treat
the wafer God, little Debbie House amazing. At this point,
he's I hope he's burning in hell anyway. At this point,
she is supposedly cleansed of original sin, made a child
of God and an air of heaven. Provided she dies
in grace, she is born again, and at that moment
becomes a member of the Roman Catholic lower case Church
and is subject to its laws. So really, the Bible
sales portion, I'm liking this, I'm learning a lot. I'm
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Speaker 3: Next page page four, Helen is now a citizen of
two countries. Helen has two flags, two presidents, two constitutions
and two loyalties. The Vatican is a government with it comes.
I gotta stop because now I've lived and grown up
around Catholics my whole life, my whole life. I also,
being a New Yorker from Queen's grew up around another
group my whole fruit life. Every Catholic that I have
ever every American Catholic that I have ever met, is
a disloyal pig by comparison to the other group that
I am thinking of. Every Catholic that I can think
of talks back about the Pope, doesn't really know everything
they should, doesn't have all the dogmine mind. You've heard
the statistic something like half of American Catholics do not
believe in transubstantiation and a central doctrine of the Church.
By comparison, the other group should be described as one country,
one flag, one president, one constitution, and one loyalty. And
we're getting at least Chicken is giving us both. He's
saying we have two loyalties rather than just at one.
It's absurd. It's absurd. Which is your Yeah, there's your
mad libs?
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly, it's like mad proper news. This could
be off storm Front, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. The Vatican is a government with its own money,
secretary of State, and ambassadors, and is a recognized nation
just like Germany, France, et cetera. If Helen is a
good Catholic, her first loyalty will be to the Vatican.
Speaker 2: So let's skip to page six. Page five is a
brief description of the Sacrament of problems. But I just
wanted to read.
Speaker 3: That brief A brief description of the sacram independence. It's
like a five hundred word blurb.
Speaker 2: This is what I'm saying where it's like the perfect
synthesis of like lefty meme, lunatics, getzo posting, and THEZAR
like Reddit historiography. But uh yeah, check out page six.
Speaker 3: Wow, oh wait, I have to Can I say one
thing here? I'm pretty sure I am correct about this
is the word isn't called indulgences. Indulgences is a practice
that has always been done in the Catholic Church. Just
for the sake of this, because I do find Catholic
theology very interesting. You see up there where it says
Roman Catholicism replaces repentance with the sacrifice of penance. By this,
I assume Chick believes penance is the act of saying
five Hail marries. Now, penance is the act of feeling
regret and requesting repentance. That's what penance is. It is
the reception of penance. So when I go, if you're
a priest, I go to you and I go, Father,
I've done this, and this I just I feel absolutely
terrible about it. I'd like to see penance for this.
You would issue me penance and then you would give
me an indulgence. An indulgence is what an indulgence is
meant to do, is meant to affirm by some sort
of work. You go, so when you make a deal
with somebody, you go, all right, look, I'm not just
gonna trust you on this. You gotta do better, You
gotta put the work in to do better. Fairly reasonable thing,
possibly to request of someone who wants you to be better.
They'd want you to do something to be better. Well,
in the old Church, some people used to be able
to pay for penances. This was the big controversy, of course,
and it was rebuked by the church. As far as
I understand the kind of exorbitant fees. But the thing
where you say five hail marries, that's an indulgence. That's
not penance. Just to be clear, I know that may
be Catholic inside baseball, but I think a lot of
Catholics don't even really understand that. But saying five hail marries,
which has never been assigned to me in my entire life.
By the way, but saying five hail marries would be
an indulgence, not penance. You do have to actually be
repentant in order to receive penance, and then you are
told an indulgence that you are to perform if you're
really for real arius about it in the eyes of
the community now anyway, just saying that, for I find
Catholic theology interesting. So I want to clarify that if
you weren't listening to any of that the TLDR, I
worship demons whatever, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Speaking of that, let's get to this next panel.
Speaker 3: Yes, the next panel reads, did the idea of the
confessional come from the Vatican? No, It originated way back
in ancient Babylon, where they worshiped the sun god Ball.
Ball is not the sun god. Ball is the god
of fertility and crops. It was part of and here's
the big one. Here's the big one. It was part
of an a cult religious system. After the Great Flood,
Noah's offspring built the city of Babylon. It became the
religious center of the world. Here the confessional was first
used to find out what was going on and to
control and blackmail. There is no evidence of that whatsoever.
I promise there is no evidence of a confessional booth
occurring in ancient Babylon whatsoever. You can. By the way,
you can still believe it's fake, just don't say it's
from the Babylonian mystery school. That has never happened.
Speaker 2: Ever, I think your initial initial anger had more to
do with than this characterization of Ball than the state
of being made.
Speaker 3: What have we got to do here? I'm not an apologist,
I just honestly burden. I don't like little lies. Honestly,
the big lies bother me, but little lies and ignorances
bother me so much more. Well, I receive it so
much more.
Speaker 2: It's not a particular scholar of the ancient world. I
know this isn't true. In ancient Babylon they worshiped the
sun god Ball. Then then this religion moved into Egypt,
using different names. I guess it did. The altars of
Egypt were some shaped wafers made of unleavened bread. Now
when does that come back? These waifers were consecrated by
the Egyptian priests, and supposedly they magically became the flesh
of the sun god Osiris. This is called transassociation. So
basically the Egyptians were Babylonians and they became the Roman
Catholic Church. To me, I find this way more.
Speaker 3: Look at this. I'm actually I'm gonna be fair to
Jack Chick. Ok here as apparently nineteenth century scholarship around
the subject of astro theology and the Babylonian mystery religion
did treat Ball as the personification of the sun. Now,
earlier and later scholarship have agreed that Shamash or Shopash
was the sun god of Canaan and Babylon. But there
was a time and Jack Chick could have been reading
these documents where it was briefly thought Ball was the
sun god. So you know what, maybe he's onto something.
Maybe I'm the retard, maybe I'm the idiot.
Speaker 2: So I realized I'm not trying to be deliberately religiously
insensitive here, and I realized we are joking about serious topics.
But if you're wondering what exact image was the basis
for this entire idea of why I wanted to expose
you to this, it's this is the image Virgin Mary
is the Masonic isis.
Speaker 3: Yes, I see here, because you can see a lot
of similarities between the two drawings. Jack Chick has made.
Speaker 2: Ah see you fell into mind.
Speaker 3: Actually, this is really funny. This is Yes. Ude, it's
that meme. I have already depicted you as the Masonic
deity isis Yes. But you know what's kind of funny
about this? So this is page twenty of what is
the title of this this one? Because people should look
at this one, the Roman Catholics, Christians. Okay, so go back,
go back to page twenty and so again Jack Chick
has drawn both of these. I've never seen a depiction
of Isis that way. It's very possible. That's a very
fair depiction of Isis. Now, can you can you zoom in?
I need to see what's below Mary's feet. Is it
a snake? Okay, it's a snake. The trampling of the
snake okay, very common image because in revelations it is
said at least Catholics believe what is being said there
is that Mary crushes the head of the snake. So
what you're seeing in Jack Chick's depiction here is Mary,
who is modestly dressed, crushing the snake and has her
arms extended and is holding nothing. Now, the image of
Isis has and ohen, there's a halo over Mary's Now
the image of Isis features a halo over isis and
an immodestly dressed. She's immodestly dressed. She doesn't have a veil,
she's wearing some kind of crown, and her upper chest
is visible, very immodestly dressed by comparison. In one hand,
she looks like she holds a scale. In the other hand,
it looks like she holds some shepherd material, either a
crook or some kind of noose or something to that effect.
And what can you clearly see under her feet, Jay Burden?
You see snakes who are not being crushed, not being crushed.
And so even in Jack Chick's depiction, there is almost
no similarity between these two figures besides the halo.
Speaker 2: Because he controls each one of these images.
Speaker 3: Yes he could, yes, and I don't know why he
didn't make them identical.
Speaker 2: Bring you on for the most the most high IQ subjects, right,
which is a bit deceased schizophrenic.
Speaker 3: I don't hate Jack Chick at all, though I have
to be said, I think I don't hate him, Yes,
very Americana. And you know what, I hope he's in heaven,
I really do. I hope he's in heaven, and I
hope he's reconciled. And you know, I'm sure that if
me and him got together, we'd we'd have recorded a
great episode of t L A.
Speaker 2: Would be the irony of ironies. If on his deathbeds
a vision virginis, I'd love to hump completely inverting great
story of every single back Chick track.
Speaker 3: Ever, which is ironically what he's What is that story about?
The Rabbi? Yes, what it was all about.
Speaker 2: So we have found out that life in fact does
imitate art.
Speaker 3: Jack Chick.
Speaker 2: The theat I.
Speaker 3: You know what's funny? And know my research of him,
I don't even know what he looked like. Oh okay,
he looks like exactly what I thought he would look like. Yeah,
he looks like a regular white dude from the South,
not from Not from the South, He's not from the South.
He's from Pasadena's the uh.
Speaker 2: Is the really where our best schizophrenics came from? The Birchers.
They came out of Orange County.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the burchase.
Speaker 2: I actually think I'm supposed to have No, I can't
keep track. You are actually I think they were right. Honestly,
I guys were the uh Bird. Where could people find you?
Speaker 3: Oh? I don't know Timeline Earth. You can find it,
go to the Patreon don't just Timeline Earth Patreon over
the line. That's where Yeah, I uh.
Speaker 2: Listen to Timeline Earth. It's probably the only podcast I
actually listened to.
Speaker 3: Uh, you know. Can I stop you right there and say,
first of all, thank you, thank you for saying that,
because it's very meaningful to me. We are we are
friends outside of this context. But I will say this,
and this is my newest best selling point. It's becoming
the point where Tle will never be famous. But all
of the podcasters that you enjoy listening to enjoy listening
to t LA. So that's my new selling point.
Speaker 2: It's sort of the like the or McDonald, you're like
a podcaster's podcast here Yeesvelvet Underground.
Speaker 3: Yes, the MF Doom the Yes, we're like we're basically
like the Connoisseur's choice.
Speaker 2: And much like m F. Doom. I believe that you
are all committed vetmvers at the nation of Islam if
I understand.
Speaker 3: It, and banned from and banned in the United States.
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