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So thank you for the support. Head on over to

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do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone

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back to the Pekingana Show. Oh we have a treat here.

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Two guys that you love to do the deep dives.

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So let's try to keep this under three hours. John,

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how you doing, Stormy?

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Speaker 2: Doing well? Doing well?

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Speaker 1: What's gone off? ILOs?

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Speaker 3: Everything's good in the hood.

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Speaker 1: Who wants to go first? We're going to talk about

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at We're going to get controversial again, but and probably

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piss a bunch of people off. But you know, I

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think that's what this shows for. So who wants to

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start this off?

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Speaker 2: Fine?

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I'll just play it straight. So the essential

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information to know for the Dolls brothers is John Foster

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DoLS was an American Secretary of State and Alan Dolls

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was the Director of Central Intelligence from nineteen fifty three

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to nineteen sixty one. That was concurrent with the time

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that JF. Dullis was Secretary of State. Now, you might

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assume that two men, being brothers in high positions of

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power in the federal government would exercise some kind of

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undue influence on the foreign policy of the United States,

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and you would be correct. To go into the life

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of the Dulles brothers is to understand the trajectory of

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both the foreign policy of the United States from about

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the forties through the late sixties early seventies, but also

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to understand big changes, sweeping changes that occurred within the

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internal structure of the government. So I guess on this stream,

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I'll kind of be the straight man, presenting information from

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primary sources. I deliberately tried to stay away from especially

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very convoluted elements like Alan Dulles's appointment to the Warren Commission,

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as well as the ultimate culpability upon him for the

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Bay of Pigs. But other than that, I'm happy to

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just kind of go through his life the source material

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to keep it short and not overwhelmed the conversation. I

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was very fortunate to come across a trove of primary

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sources from the Deputy Chief of Staff for Logistics in

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the Military Assistance and Advisory Group, and that individual was

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the head of Walker Air Force Base in the nineteen sixties.

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And as we go into alf Fletcher Proudy's book, The

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Secret War, one thing that you'll understand is that the

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CIA had an extra component, and that was its Defense Department,

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not so much equivalent, but its partner and how it

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conducts operations. So having a lot of these primary sources

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from a side of that organization that's intimately involved in

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the story is a bit of a treat. Very briefly,

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I'm just going to outline the sources, so you know

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what I'm referencing, and these will come up again with

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the early life of Alan Dulles. I'm citing Gentleman Spy

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by Peter Gross as well as The Devil's Chessboard by

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David Talbot. For my more esoteric sources. I also have

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The Secret Team by L. Fletcher Proudy, as well as

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The Secret War by Sanche de Gramont from nineteen sixty two.

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I have a nineteen seventies book, The Man Who Kept

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the Secrets about the CIA. I have Donovan and the Cia,

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which was the CIA's first external biography of itself, and

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the OSS. And I also have the absolute classic and

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privilege of a first edition, first printing copy of Carol

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Quigly's Tragedy and Hope, which outlines the overall United States

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foreign policy in the twentieth century. So those are my

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sources for the stream and I'm happy to get into it.

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Speaker 1: You want to add anything before we start, stormy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Alan Dulles was and John Foster Dulles was national

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socialist sympathizers and American heroes. And we can take it

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from there.

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Speaker 1: All right, that filus sure, so.

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Speaker 3: In getting into the early life and biography of these men.

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And to be clear, this stream is primarily going to

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be focused more on Alan dolls than John Foster. But

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in looking at them, we also have to consider that

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most biographies that are highly critical of the Dulles brothers

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and their activities are written by leftists. So the most

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recent and prominent of these biographies, The Devil's Chessboard, asserts

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that Alan Dolles is a pro Nazi sympathizer, which is true,

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and that he didn't do enough, even though he knew

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about the Holocaust, to stop German activities against Jews and

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so on and so forth. And if you're very sympathetic

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to that cause, then that book will be very enlightening.

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But if you're on our side of things, there's a

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trove of information within that book which suggests many more

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unknowns than are available on other conventional sources about the

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Dulles brothers. So I'm going to start with one book here,

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Gentleman Spy by Peter Gross. So I guess you have

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to start first off with Alan Dolles. His early life

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is straightforward, wasp. He's one of five children of a

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Presbyterian minister. He is part of a very blue blooded

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aristocratic family. There's Wikipedia articles back I think four generations

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about his family, Stormy. You might know more on that.

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His maternal grandfather was Secretary of State, his uncle was

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Secretary of State under Woodrow Wilson, and Dulles went to

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Princeton University, so already starting out he was destined for

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big things. Initially, his career began after he exited Princeton

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by a brief stint in Vienna, I believe eight months,

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and then transferring over to Bern in Switzerland. And Switzerland

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is going to be a theme that pops up a bunch.

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The time in which he goes is immediately following World

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War One, and there's an issue of national displacement after

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World War One in Europe. So while he's at both

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Vienna and Bern, he starts interacting with people from all

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over the world in his capacity, as I believe his

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technical title was a Foreign Service officer. I'd have to

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double check that, but going into it, his job is

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to gather and collect intelligence on the surroundings. He's collecting

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information upon people dignitaries that are visiting the embassy. Since

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he's working for the State Department, he's primarily assisting people

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with things like immigration claims, and that his function as

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the serve Foreign Office was that, you know, he'd have

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to occasionally help Jews, so very often there's very wealthy

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and powerful Jews. This is something pointed out in the

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Peter Gross biography. An interesting little anecdote that Dulls like

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to tell throughout his life was that he missed meeting

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Vladimir Lenin by just one day when Lenin was the

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leader of the Bolsheviks. So right before Lenin left for

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the Finland station, he had arranged a meeting to come

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to the United States Embassy and have a meeting with Dullis.

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But Dullas I believe, had some of their obligation. Dulis

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loved that story, which is that you should never pass

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up an opportunity to meet people. And that's a theme

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that's going to happen again and again. Dulas is a

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very good, ideous job. Well. He starts off as kind

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of a basic secretarial role. He quickly in the State

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Department rises to a position of prominence. I believe he's

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the second in command at this embassy, and his dispatches

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are of a significantly higher quality than his Peers. So

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at this point in time in nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen,

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Walter Littman has started reading the reports of Alan Dulls's

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This is right on the collapse of the Central Powers,

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and these dispatches stand out to mister Littman because the

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clarity and the insight that Dulas is noticing and the

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people in the circumstances around him. So Litman resolved to

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keep his eye on Dulles. Many things are happening at

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the conclusion of the war. On previous podcasts with Pete,

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I've brought up how Edward Burnees went to the Paris

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Peace Conference, and that you know a multitude of other

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diplomats and people that were responsible for World War Two

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ultimately as well. Bernard Baruch goes. Colonel House also goes

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to Europe as well, and well Dulles. I don't think

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he's actually present at the Paris Peace Conference, but the

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information and the dispatches that are going from Dulles to

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Litman are used by Litman to persuade Colonel House that

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the collection of intelligence is an urgent priority and that

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if conventional diplomats don't have much interest in pursuing it,

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then there needs to be a shift and a change

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in how American intelligence operates. So I just want to

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very briefly elucidate the concepts of what intelligence is to

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help people understand what makes Alan Dolls's role so special. So,

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the way the intelligence process works is that you have

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a central mission and in that mission, you have to

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collect data. You have to process and exploit it. You

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have to analyze and produce it. You've disseminate it and

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to integrate it. And then that follows with planning and direction.

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So the role of mister Dulles as he's going and

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he's talking and he's meeting to people, these aren't casual acquaintances.

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Dulls is setting up a network within Switzerland that he's

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going to lean on in the nineteen twenties and thirties

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as he goes through his career. And let's see here

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I have to my sources are a little bit jumbled

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here other stuff. Do you want to take over for

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a minute, Stormy, repete.

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Speaker 1: Glad Stormy. If you don't have anything, we can just now.

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Speaker 2: I was doing the thing where you talk into your

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microphone but don't realize that you're muted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sure. Professional every professional podcaster does that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, I'm a professional now. I finally had my

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cherry popped. I didn't like it. So my my knowledge

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of Dulles Alan and really John Foster happens when it

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starts when they get home from the Paris Peace Conference.

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World War two is I'm sorry, world War one is

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is you know, a distant memory. And they are at

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the law firm Sullivan and Cromwell. So I don't know

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if I low is is where you're going next, Sullivan

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and Cromwell or no.

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Speaker 3: That's correct, but finance isn't really my area of expertise.

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I only know that he was generally pro Nazi. I

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have some other specific little anecdotes from that.

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Speaker 2: But did you find your source?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have.

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Speaker 2: Jump in there, take over and I'll take it in

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the post war years.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I found my source. Good job there.

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Speaker 3: So he's at Sullivan and Cromwell, and at this time

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he is making network connections to the Nazis. So the

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Nazis sees power in nineteen thirty three, and let's fuck.

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I'm sorry, I'm screwing this all up. I'm looking through

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a sources. I totally tr umbled.

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Speaker 2: We should just wait and make it super awkward.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so here we go, Here we go, found it,

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found it. So Doulas is in burn and Switzerland. And

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the reason that that matters is because both in World

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War Two and in the interwar years, Doulas is making

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connections financially as well. So the Dulles brothers their lost

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their Wall Street law firm is Sullivan and Cromwell, and

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that sits at a connective node between all these different

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international banks, investment firms, and industrial conglomerates. And during World

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War One, the German economy is totally devastated and the

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rebuilding of that falls to these banks and industrial companies,

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and so there's a lot of US investment that begins

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to go into German industrial giants like ig Farben, the

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chemical Congramlate and Krupp Steel. There's a great book out

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there called The Arms of Krupp, which to summarize like

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two thousand pages of this history. This German steel company,

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it's entirely centered within the Rure and they are producing

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the best quality steel in the planet for hundreds of years.

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So after World War One, US investment goes into crypt Steel,

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which is an economic powerhouse for Germany. And because it's

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in the rule, it requires French and British involvement. So

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the profits that are generated by these investments then go

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to France and Britain due to the Paris Peace Conference

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in the Versailles Treaty, these flow back in the form

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of war reparations and then also back to the United

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States to pay off war loans. And so Alan Doles's brother,

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John Foster Dolis he it's very, very lucrative to have

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these investments within Germany. And even after Hitler takes power

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in the nineteen thirties, John Foster is continuing to work

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with and do business with German companies like ig Farbin,

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and he's donating money to America First, which is a

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isolationist party story. You've touched on it in other streams.

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Charles Lindberg was kind of their avatar, and many Americans

238
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at this time, very prominent WASP Americans had a positive

239
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opinion of Hitler's Germany and Foster refused to shut down

240
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,440
the Berlin office of Sullivan and Cromwell in the nineteen thirties,

241
00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:49,039
and he ordered the attorneys at this at his firm

242
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:54,839
to sign their correspondence with Kyle Hitler until his business partner,

243
00:17:54,839 --> 00:17:58,960
who's also his brother, Alan Dulls, grew increasingly worried about

244
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,559
a public relations disaster, and then it In nineteen thirty five,

245
00:18:02,759 --> 00:18:07,759
partners meeting at forty eight Wall Street, John Foster agreed

246
00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:12,160
to remove the Yle Hitler from the letters and apparently

247
00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:15,519
was so devastated by this that he broke down in tears,

248
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because you know, there's a lot of severing of German

249
00:18:20,279 --> 00:18:22,519
connections that have now been built up in the business

250
00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:25,160
world over the last fifteen or so years since the

251
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,519
end of World War One, and not all of the

252
00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:35,400
individuals that are working with the firm are being cut

253
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,039
off intrinsically. It's still prior to World War Two, so

254
00:18:39,079 --> 00:18:42,519
there's not as much of a need at this point

255
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,559
prominent society. People are still entertaining the Nazis. You have

256
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,799
to remember also that for most of the nineteen thirties

257
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the Nazis were very well received in the United States,

258
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,799
like the Hindenburg, I mean, up until the disaster in

259
00:18:54,960 --> 00:19:01,079
nineteen thirty eight. It was this huge, positively received public

260
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,559
gesture to see the Hindenburg flying with a huge swastik

261
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:05,279
on its tail.

262
00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 1: Oh, let me jump in here for a second goes.

263
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,359
I told Thomas we were doing this, and he threw

264
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,960
this in there. He said that Alan Dulles met with

265
00:19:16,079 --> 00:19:20,200
Hitler in nineteen thirty three, one of the few Americans

266
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,960
to do so, and it said that he came away impressed.

267
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 3: That's right, and that fact he kept secret from the

268
00:19:28,519 --> 00:19:32,839
successive director for the Central Intelligence Agency until he was

269
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,720
on his deathbed, guy called Richard Helms. So he kept

270
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,599
it very private after the war that he had made

271
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,359
and known so many different Nazi connections. And that's also

272
00:19:43,559 --> 00:19:46,759
why there's a huge gap in all the primary sources

273
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,000
during the early Cold War, none of it. And I've

274
00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:52,200
looked through all of the sources in reference for any

275
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:55,079
kind of German connection that was known during the Old

276
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,920
the early Cold War. The only thing that I was

277
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,839
able to find was in a a book detailing the

278
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,160
rise of the oss and wartime activities in World War Two.

279
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,759
There was a very brief footnote mentioning that at one

280
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,039
meeting Alan Dolls had to be away because he was

281
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:20,000
negotiating with German diplomats. And that document, that primary source

282
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,279
used in the book was part of the Truman presidential

283
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,680
archives and was marked as top secret with compartmentalized clearance,

284
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,319
and that was the one. That book itself was from

285
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,720
the official history of the Agency. So all of these

286
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,480
other publicly accessible sources are included, but the CIA went

287
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:43,960
through that book specifically with a fine tooth comb to

288
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,440
remove any reference to any of the German dealings. So

289
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,200
most of the references come from things that are way

290
00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:57,880
after the early publications about the published Donovan the CIA.

291
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,480
That is from nineteen eighty and so after kind of

292
00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:05,160
the more recent one that reveals a lot of his

293
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,839
German connections, that's from twenty fifteen. That's the David tal

294
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,079
About one about Devil's chess board.

295
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, what you want to do is check the rock

296
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:19,079
of other archives for sure. That's where you find a

297
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:21,839
lot of the German stuff because he and his brother

298
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,279
only had one main client that they focused on. This

299
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:30,519
is why the lefties hate him so much, because you know,

300
00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:37,519
if some pissant governments of some pissant South American country

301
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,559
wants to get up at the eat and nationalize a

302
00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:45,720
bunch of United Brood or standard oil stuff, the CIA

303
00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:48,759
would take time out of their day to fuck you

304
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:53,039
in the ass and take it all back and probably

305
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:57,880
you know, do bad stuff to you. So the lefties

306
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,599
kind of give him all the shit because like, oh,

307
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,599
he was you know, you know, a servant of you know,

308
00:22:06,079 --> 00:22:11,000
capitalism or whatever. He was a lifelong friend with David

309
00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:16,839
and Nelson Rockefeller, and a lot of the business relationships

310
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,119
between Standard Oil, which there are many, and the Third

311
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,680
Reich bringing IBM in to the Third Reich, bringing Ford

312
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:31,119
and General Motors in. A lot of the companies that

313
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,640
you saw in the Third Reich got there because two

314
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,400
of the top lawyers at Sullivan Cromwell and their largest client,

315
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:48,680
John Rockefeller, wanted them there. So it wasn't just it

316
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:55,240
wasn't just John and Alan having these sympathies. This was

317
00:22:55,279 --> 00:23:00,880
the sympathy. I mean, Pete, you remember our our episodes

318
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,000
and the robber Barons and like second or third when

319
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:08,079
we go through who all aligned against I mean short,

320
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:14,680
this is shortly after FDR was place and power. But

321
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:22,039
you had the entire upper crust of American society, Democrat

322
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:25,200
and Republican, trying to tear this motherfucker out of the office,

323
00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:29,160
including the guy who was the president of the Democratic

324
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,960
Party and the previous presidential candidate, the guy that just

325
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,240
put him in there because of who he brought with him,

326
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,240
the communists, literal communist Jewish communists underneath his little wheelchair.

327
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:47,720
So it was vital for the ruling class of America

328
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,160
while they were still ruling to it's not more than

329
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,519
just kinship, like you know, like, oh, you know, this

330
00:23:56,599 --> 00:24:01,319
is a similar struggle. They've did as in their interest

331
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:08,240
domestically to strengthen Germany domestically, and.

332
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 3: I have some I have some evidence for that. Let's

333
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:20,519
see nineteen thirty seven. He says John Foster was impressed

334
00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:23,599
by a man who, from quote humble beginnings has attained

335
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:29,519
the unquestioned leadership of a great nation. He also stated

336
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,559
in nineteen thirty nine Foster did that Germany's position is

337
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:36,559
a morally superior to that of the Allies. Alan Dollas

338
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,160
met face to face with Hitler in Hitler's Berlin office

339
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,240
in March of nineteen thirty three. He was ostensibly on

340
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:45,920
a fact finding mission to Europe for President Roosevelt, but

341
00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:50,319
was particularly interested in determining what the rise of Hitler

342
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,599
meant for his law form's corporate interests. I disagree with

343
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,200
the author on that he probably already knows by this

344
00:24:56,319 --> 00:24:59,240
point what the firm's interests are in Germany if he's

345
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,640
been doing business with them for years. He was also

346
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,400
impressed with Joseph Goebbels.

347
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So, Pete, remember when we talked about how a

348
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,880
lot of the people behind the American Liberty League, So

349
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:24,960
this would be Henry Ford and and Jack Morgan and

350
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,599
I Redo Pont. I Redo pont a longtime funder of

351
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:34,319
hard right politics in the United States. Right, this is

352
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,720
the businessman. This is like right at the time of

353
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:41,400
the businessman's plot, so to speak, right when these men,

354
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:50,319
the the and the Rockefeller brothers. Obviously these men were

355
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,839
also what do you mean like these men? So like Morgan,

356
00:25:54,200 --> 00:26:04,519
Ford and what's his name Townshend, No, Thomas Filo, you

357
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:08,960
found the I remember after talking to you about this

358
00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:14,039
gentleman Tom Lamont. There we go. Anyways, these men were

359
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,480
sending several fact finding missions to three of the fascist

360
00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:26,119
nations at the exact same time. So I would be

361
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:32,359
disappointed if I found out that Alan Dulles was on

362
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,880
a state funded fact finding mission you know, in the

363
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,400
Third Reich, and he was not also doing the exact

364
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:46,519
same thing as in you know, uh legal capacity, even

365
00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:49,559
though he was there at behest of you know, Franklin

366
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:57,119
Delano Roosevelt and the administration. He was also a the

367
00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:01,640
He was also the aturneys for a lot of these

368
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,559
men and representatives and sorry was their representative of their

369
00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:10,519
interests in Europe anyways. So to think that Alan Dulles

370
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,599
was not on a similar fact finding mission in relationship

371
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:20,039
to how these fascist governments came about, how they sported

372
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:27,559
a communist revolution and instead brought in something new, because

373
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:33,480
at the same exact time, Morgan and I Redo Pont

374
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,279
are spending six million or six or seven million dollars

375
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,720
the equivalent of like, uh, you know at the time

376
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,839
four or five billion dollars today, sending you know, groups

377
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:53,599
of people, all with varying expertise. This historians, this linguists,

378
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:59,319
not like propaganda, and like media wasn't a thing yet,

379
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,799
so you got like they sent writers, they wanted like messaging,

380
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:08,079
Like these guys were actively studying fascism and how to

381
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,160
bring it about at the exact same time as Alan

382
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:13,359
Dulls is on a fact finding mission at the Third Reich,

383
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,440
the lawyer that represents all of these men in their

384
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:23,279
business capacity back in the States, There's no way he

385
00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:25,480
was not doing the exact same thing. I'm sure he

386
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:27,559
told Roosevelt he was fact finding some other shit.

387
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,079
Speaker 3: What do you know about the Bank for International Settlements?

388
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:35,599
Speaker 2: A lot?

389
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: Okay, because that's that's coming up next? Is I bet

390
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,319
it is that one of Dullas's most important contacts was

391
00:28:43,359 --> 00:28:46,680
a guy called Thomas McKittrick, who was a Wall Street

392
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,920
friend of his, who was the president of the Bank

393
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,480
for International Settlements.

394
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: What was he the president before that?

395
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,279
Speaker 3: I'd have to look it up.

396
00:28:56,319 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: If you know offhand and financial institution you'd have heard of.

397
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,640
I don't know if he was president of.

398
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: Leigh, Higginson and Co.

399
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 2: Yes, which would now be c in Company. So Bank

400
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:31,480
of International Settlements, my friends, is a sovereign nation. They

401
00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:36,960
issued their own passports, they have diplomatic immunity, they have

402
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:43,960
diplomatic cable immunity. They are, for all intent and purpose,

403
00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:53,880
diplomatically and otherwise, a sovereign entity. They're as much of

404
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,880
a country as Liechtenstein is, even though they're just a building.

405
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:07,400
Was it like fourteen or fifteen floors? So they get

406
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,759
to do you know, diplomatic stuff as in like move

407
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:19,759
people to places, move things from place to place without

408
00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:25,240
them being interfered with the Bank of International Settlements, got

409
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:30,680
a lot of the Nazi leader the person I can't

410
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:41,680
prove this, but I believe my favorite, you know ss

411
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:48,640
upper crustman, haunt Ober Group and fewer Hans Kammler, the

412
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,279
man that was in charge of the Kammler Stott, the

413
00:30:51,319 --> 00:30:57,319
fifty square miles in Poland that Los Alamos and the

414
00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:05,519
Manhattan Project and later DARPA were based on. Right, the

415
00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:08,400
accounts of his death are really, really, really really sketchy,

416
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,279
But I know a lot of other Nazi leadership below

417
00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:17,519
on Over Group in fear. They got out of the

418
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:23,519
country through the BIS. This is actually where the fondness

419
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:28,960
for Argentina came from, is that BIS is. I believe

420
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,079
they were restructuring the Central Bank of Argentina at the

421
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,480
end of the war. Anyways, But between that and Dullas's

422
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:48,160
work in Italy with propaganda due to Ballpark, we're talking

423
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:57,680
about thousands of Third Reich officers and bureaucrats of various levels,

424
00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:02,960
like actual party people got out of the country because

425
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:05,960
Alan Dulles paper clip was just a drop in a

426
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,519
bucket of what he was doing. We didn't just take scientists.

427
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:15,119
Thanks to Alan Dulles, we took hundreds of thousands of

428
00:32:15,119 --> 00:32:18,200
people out of the Third Reich before the Soviets put

429
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,400
them in camps and shot them. So for anybody that

430
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,720
says that Alan Dulls isn't down for the cause, a

431
00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:32,920
great risk to himself both physically in post World War

432
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:41,599
to Berlin and professionally. He made it a priority of

433
00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:48,079
Sullivan and Cromwell and all of the businesses that Sullivan

434
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:52,759
and Cromwell represented that we're in there. I know it

435
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:57,119
came out that a lot of I think it was

436
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,480
like four or five relatively high ranking, not super duper

437
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:04,640
high rankings. Again, those people are all you know on

438
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:12,319
lists came out when IBM pulled its people out, and

439
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,519
I believe the same for Standard Oil. He was also

440
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:21,839
the one that set up that leaned on Rome heavily

441
00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:29,200
using the BIS because the BIS was doing the banking

442
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:33,279
for the papacy, I believe at the time and through

443
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,880
the leverage provided or basically through the leverage that the

444
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,599
BIS had over Rome made the Catholic Church down for

445
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,400
the cause, even though they weren't super down for the cause.

446
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,920
But yeah, BIS is a diplomatic entity, follow not a

447
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,319
lot of everybody thinks it's just a bank.

448
00:33:57,359 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: I can go a little bit more into their specific

449
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:07,880
operations letting into World War two. So they were Five

450
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,760
of its directors for BIS were later at the end

451
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,519
of the war charged with war crimes. That was ig

452
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:22,000
Farban and one of the one let's see here, the

453
00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:25,800
secret of BIS became the crucial financial partner for the Nazis.

454
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:30,639
The vice president of the Reichsbank, Emil Pool, who was

455
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:34,840
a close associate of McKittrick, once called BIS the Reich's bank,

456
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,079
only the only foreign branch. It was responsible for a

457
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:46,239
lot of the Nazi gold management within Switzerland. One thing

458
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,679
is that BIS is located within Switzerland. That's not a

459
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,159
coincidence all the kind of that kind of like trite

460
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,880
frayme that, like all phrasing, that all the Nazi gold

461
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,920
is in Switzerland accumulated during the war. I would presume

462
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,000
that that's because of BI. Dullis is very very close

463
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:07,519
to McKittrick at the start and continuing through the war,

464
00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:11,400
and both Dullis and McKittrick are not popular with either

465
00:35:11,519 --> 00:35:16,800
FDR's inner circle or FDR's Treasury secretary Henry Morgan thou

466
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:22,920
And there was a time where the Roosevelt administration moved

467
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,800
to block bank for international settlement funds within the United States.

468
00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:33,159
McKittrick hired Foster Doulas as the legal counsel, who successfully

469
00:35:33,159 --> 00:35:38,280
intervened on the bank's behalf. Morgan Thou was outraged in

470
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,559
the winter of nineteen forty two when McKittrick made a

471
00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:43,400
business trip to the United States and was warmly welcomed

472
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,639
by Wall Street. These are the executives of several corporations

473
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,800
such as General Motors and Standard Oil. They had profited

474
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,800
from doing business with the Nazis, and a banquet was

475
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,360
held for mckindrick's honor at the New York University Club

476
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,920
on December seventeenth. Morgan Thou then tried to prevent mckindrick

477
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,320
from exiting the United States to return to BIS headquarters

478
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,119
in Switzerland on the grounds that the bank was very

479
00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:17,280
clearly aiding the Nazi war effort. Vice versa. Alan Dulles

480
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,880
came to mckittrick's rescue and was able to get him

481
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,880
on an April nineteen forty three flight to Europe. If

482
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,760
you know about aviation at the time, it is very

483
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,920
very hard to fly transatlantic during World War Two. You

484
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,039
need a lot of permissions to do that. Dulson McKittrick

485
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:36,119
continued to work closely for the rest of the war.

486
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:47,039
They what is this project safe Haven Morgenthou's treasury department,

487
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,480
which was trying to fiscate a lot of the wealth

488
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:58,519
of the Nazis. Dulson McKittrick, within OSS and BIS respectively

489
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:05,679
worked to protect Nazi commodity interests after the war, and

490
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,239
Dulls believed that a lot of these powerful German figures

491
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,239
should be returned to political power within the post war period.

492
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:15,760
One interesting thing at the end of the war, as

493
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:23,519
an anecdote, is that Alan Dulles when peace with Germany,

494
00:37:23,559 --> 00:37:26,239
when kind of the overall this is like after the war,

495
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:33,559
but pre Nuremberg, Dulls is advocating for a restoration of

496
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,800
many Nazi officials within Germany. He doesn't want the Germans

497
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:43,480
to unconditionally and fully surrender and then be for whatever

498
00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:50,239
we're criminally charged, which at Nuremberg is just bullshit. A

499
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,320
lot of you know, McKittrick and the Bank of International

500
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,960
Settlements had a lot of problems with Morgenthau was essentially

501
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,800
looting Germany, and my earlier stream with a forrestall On.

502
00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:06,119
You know, Morgan Thou wanted Germany left destitute. It's obvious

503
00:38:06,199 --> 00:38:09,519
that morgan Thou's treasury was going to seize that wealth

504
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:15,280
for Jewish interests away from major German corporations. So throughout

505
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,519
the war there's it seems that there's this this kind

506
00:38:18,519 --> 00:38:22,960
of behind the seams financial war between BIS and other

507
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,960
banking interests behind the Roosevelt administration.

508
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I wonder if any of that gold that

509
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,599
they would have tried to take would have made it

510
00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:40,280
to would have actually made it to the destination as

511
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,039
they said, or if it would get lost, because I

512
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:47,599
for a long time basically viewed it as well Morgan

513
00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:50,559
Thou's attempt to trying to get at the gold just

514
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:53,440
to be another you know, looting attempt that these people

515
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:59,159
are quite famous for. Because at this point the Germans

516
00:38:59,199 --> 00:39:04,639
have accumulated quite a bit of gold and quite a

517
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:09,559
bit of property. As far as rare art things like that,

518
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:15,679
the BIS was actually kind of critical and keeping a

519
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:20,719
lot of that stuff hidden. Majority of the gold never

520
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:26,559
got well, I'm assuming maybe CIA hasn't. I don't know,

521
00:39:29,039 --> 00:39:38,039
but dulles is I mean so often and not just

522
00:39:38,199 --> 00:39:42,280
astral I hope he listens to this. It's not just Astrail.

523
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,800
I have to constantly argue this point with. But I

524
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,719
have to argue this point with a lot, Like a

525
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,199
lot of accounts, there are people that refuse to believe

526
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:55,920
that this guy was anything other than a shit lib

527
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:01,480
at best and a collabor regime collaborator at worst. I mean,

528
00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:09,360
is that that point is untenable. I don't know what

529
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,639
your thoughts are, Filo, but is there any way to

530
00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:15,320
read what the documents that you've gone through and remotely

531
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,000
see Alan Dallas says anything other than extremely sympathetic, if

532
00:40:20,039 --> 00:40:22,559
not outright supportive of the Third Reich.

533
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,599
Speaker 3: I don't think there's so. I mean, there's there's not

534
00:40:26,679 --> 00:40:28,760
another way to look at it, especially with this, uh,

535
00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:31,599
this David Talbot book. If I didn't have access to

536
00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:33,280
the other sources, it would be a little trickier.

537
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 2: But what about Rhinhart Galen, Let's talk about him.

538
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:40,079
Speaker 3: I'd have to look him up.

539
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,159
Speaker 2: Hold on, I got you rehin Haard Galen was the

540
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,920
head of Nazi intelligence.

541
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:57,599
Speaker 3: Oh I have something on him, I hear, Yeah.

542
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 2: Just preserve Galen. He didn't keep Galen out of the news.

543
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:10,480
He kept the entire national Socialist intelligence apparatus intact, because

544
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,199
he said he needed a fight, because now like Patent,

545
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,800
like Patent had already figured out for him. Actually it's

546
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,400
not that you know, oh, we found out later that

547
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,519
we were going to be at war with the Soviets next,

548
00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:28,880
or that the Soviets weren't our friends. And this was

549
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:36,719
a surprise. Almost everyone in the American establishment, the military

550
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,000
defense establishment, they knew this from the beginning of World

551
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:45,280
War Two. What they couldn't stop is an administration that

552
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,880
was sympathetic to the Communists. At no point in time

553
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,599
did we think that you were either a communist collaborator

554
00:41:54,679 --> 00:42:00,800
inside the US government, which Roosevelt and really Stims in

555
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:07,880
his whole team very much was, or you basically knew

556
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,360
that these people were going to be our enemy immediately afterwards.

557
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,000
And by afterwards, I don't mean the end of World

558
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:14,920
War two, I mean as soon as we can get

559
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,960
this fucking guy FDR at office. I think there was

560
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,920
absolutely no illusions to that. So the entire administration hold

561
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:27,239
on one second, I.

562
00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 3: Have a source pulled up for Galen. Once Stormy's ready.

563
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:36,199
Speaker 2: Cat removal, exactly, cat removal. She doesn't get to hang

564
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:44,800
out anymore. She's lost her inside privileges. Ah. I was

565
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,519
told that like that, men that have cats are men

566
00:42:49,519 --> 00:42:53,400
that get women, and men that don't don't. I surely

567
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,800
hope so, because proposition is significantly diminished. If that's not

568
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,280
the case, it's absolutely one hundred percent. I think.

569
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 3: So I have a wife and a cat, but they

570
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:05,239
were a package.

571
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: Deal, I'd be actually lucky.

572
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 3: Then I wouldn't say it was luck Well, I.

573
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,599
Speaker 2: Would because you didn't have a cap force. You obviously

574
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:18,119
didn't understand women, So I said, I would say, luck

575
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,320
is is probably accurate that you know she was dumb

576
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,199
enough to marry you. You are a very lucky guy.

577
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: I would say that. Yeah, I'd agree with that.

578
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

579
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: Richard Galen, I have little rhin Hard Galen, excuse me,

580
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:32,840
so funny little anecdote about him. He was at the

581
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,239
nineteen fifty one World Series with his CIA handler, and

582
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,719
he went there because one of his advisors was some

583
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,800
kind of autistic savant who'd memorized all these different baseball

584
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:52,119
statistics and you know, understanding Reinhart Galen. So during the war,

585
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,920
Galen had served as Hitler's intelligence chief on the eastern

586
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:00,599
front of the Well, I'm the here host ratis. They

587
00:44:00,599 --> 00:44:07,400
were looking for weaknesses in the Soviet defenses, let's see here.

588
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:10,760
Most so he was in charge of extracting a lot

589
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,239
of the intelligence out of the Soviet prisoners of war,

590
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:18,000
and he eventually rose upward to become a major general.

591
00:44:20,119 --> 00:44:23,719
The big deal with him was that at the end

592
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,039
of the war, when he was realizing that things were

593
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:31,599
you know, that the Germans were beat he concluded that

594
00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:34,320
the US Soviet alliance that was temporary during the war

595
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,159
would split and that some of the Nazi hierarchy would

596
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:40,519
be able to survive by journeying forces with the West

597
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:46,199
against Moscow. That's very common. A lot of Germans very intelligent.

598
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,960
There's a story about a fighter pilot, a German ace

599
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:54,480
who flew into an American air base in German and

600
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,880
you know, as the Americans controlled parts of Germany and

601
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,760
a lot of high ranking people would much rather work

602
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,440
with the Americans and again than get killed by the Soviets.

603
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:10,840
That was the blunt alternative of it. Because he went

604
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,079
around to the Bavarian Mountains at the end of the war,

605
00:45:13,519 --> 00:45:16,920
he was able to bury cases of microfilm containing Nazi

606
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,599
intelligence in the Soviet Union. He then leveraged his expertise

607
00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:23,960
and connections within Eastern Europe built up during the Eastern

608
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,239
Front Offensive to convince US military officials that he was indispense.

609
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:34,119
So he, unlike other German captives who get temporarily interned

610
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:41,119
within the US Midwest or worse yet, sent to BS tribunals,

611
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,679
he got transported out on a DC three and he

612
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,840
was moved into comfortable quarters at Fort hunt Or, Virginia,

613
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,239
and there he was introduced personally to Alan Dolls, who

614
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:58,800
decided on the spot to bring mister Gellen into US

615
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:03,880
government operation. So they were then sent back to Germany

616
00:46:04,639 --> 00:46:07,719
in the service of the United States, and they were

617
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:13,559
centered in Pulac, a village near Munich, and that began

618
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:19,039
to lossom into the Gellen Organization, which was then West

619
00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:23,840
Germany's principal intelligence agency. In nineteen forty eight, the CIA

620
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:27,360
then takes over the supervision of the Gellen Organization from

621
00:46:27,679 --> 00:46:32,800
the US Army, and it becomes very clear. You know,

622
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,480
Gellen promised the army officials he wouldn't hire anybody from

623
00:46:36,519 --> 00:46:39,079
the SS or Gestapo, But of course, as it grows

624
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:40,920
and you need the most competent people, those are the

625
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,960
most competent men, so he hires all these different SS figures,

626
00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:52,440
and especially as they're starting to get released from US

627
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:55,599
Army entertainment after the war in the late nineteen forties,

628
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:59,719
they're getting hired. Some people within the CIA wanted to

629
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,599
lick date Gellen's operation, but it was shielded by Dulles.

630
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,440
His backing was primarily from the Dullest faction. In nineteen

631
00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:13,760
forty eight, you know, the person directly put in charge

632
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,079
of monitoring all of Gellen's activities at the CIA in

633
00:47:18,199 --> 00:47:22,400
Munich was a direct appointee by Dolls, and that this

634
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:28,440
individual concluded that Gellen's intel organization is performing phenomenally with

635
00:47:28,519 --> 00:47:31,639
two hundred top staff and their wives and children living

636
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:39,320
in this intelligence compound outside Munich, and the decor of

637
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,880
the main facility had a lot of you know, Nazi

638
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,000
adornment on the building, which if you know anything about

639
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,800
the denocification programs, that was like exceptionally rare. They went

640
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:55,199
throughout Germany destroying every Nazi symbol they could find, and

641
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,480
the Germans and Americans that were working together at this

642
00:47:57,559 --> 00:48:01,119
installation in the early history of the Sea grew very close.

643
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,880
The Germans and Americans working together there, their families were

644
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:10,119
going on skiing trips in the Bavarian Alps, and let's

645
00:48:10,119 --> 00:48:15,639
see where do I go from here? This overwriting goal.

646
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,360
Gallen's goal was to rebuild the Nazi power network and

647
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,480
return Germany to a dominant role on the European stage.

648
00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:26,039
One interesting thing to know, is Thomas brings up occasionally,

649
00:48:26,119 --> 00:48:29,639
is that it was made illegal to be right wing

650
00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:35,480
after Nuremberg in nineteen forty five, and it was exceptionally

651
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:42,719
illegal to be a Nazi in Germany. Let's see one

652
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:48,400
of my else. Everybody, all the Americans, from what I

653
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,920
can tell in the CIA documentation that worked with Gellen,

654
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:53,639
had very positive opinions of him, to the point where

655
00:48:53,639 --> 00:48:56,280
they facilitated him going to the nineteen fifty one World

656
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:02,920
Series because Gallen's aid liked baseball and what else was

657
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:12,320
there the nineteen fifty one trip to America was Gellen

658
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,400
was given the code name Utility, which I think is

659
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,719
very interesting. So he's very good at what he does,

660
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,000
and he also on October eighth, nineteen fifty one. During

661
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:26,920
this trip to the United States, Gellen also attends a

662
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:32,119
private dinner club with Germans and several CIA officers, as

663
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:35,480
well as Richard Helms, who had run the US intelligence

664
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:40,920
operations in Germany after the war and also succeeds Dulus

665
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:50,920
after his resignation in the early nineteen sixties. Let's see, Yeah,

666
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,239
all of so, Dulls, interestingly enough, had invited Gellen to

667
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,880
all of his different clubs, the Metropolitan Club, the Chevy

668
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:02,199
Chase Club, any time that the German spymaster visits Washington.

669
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:05,639
Dulas has this kind of open door policy that's not

670
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,480
unique to just his relationship with Gellen. He's also like

671
00:50:10,519 --> 00:50:14,320
throughout his life, Dulas is very open with how he's

672
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:20,000
meeting people. What happens to this Gallon organization in nineteen

673
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:25,599
fifty five, they are Let's see, late nineteen fifty four,

674
00:50:26,119 --> 00:50:32,920
Dulles gets Gellen's eldest daughter into a good US college

675
00:50:33,159 --> 00:50:36,199
and then she gets admitted to Hunter College in New

676
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:41,239
York City. This is like totally unprecedented for the time

677
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:47,119
to have this tide of a relationship. In nineteen fifty five,

678
00:50:47,159 --> 00:50:50,119
as the CIA prepares to transfer the Gallon Organization back

679
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:55,400
to the West German government, the agency generously gave him

680
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,760
enough money to buy a lakeside of State, and they

681
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:06,519
Gellen purchased allegedly, it was probably more likely a gift

682
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:13,400
of about a fifty thousand dollars estate. Gellen's code name

683
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:17,719
for Dulls was the Gentleman. Gellen wrote in his memoir,

684
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,920
in all the years of my collaboration with the CIA,

685
00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:22,719
I had no personal disputes with Dolan. He pleased me

686
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,360
by his air of wisdom, born of years of experience.

687
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,760
He was both fatherly and boisterous, and he became a

688
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:35,679
close personal friend of mine. What other items are here?

689
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:44,079
Whenever Gellen saw the US government policy about the Soviet

690
00:51:44,119 --> 00:51:47,159
Union was beginning to soften or weaken in its rhetoric,

691
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:55,760
the Gallen organization would decry it. And you know the

692
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,280
Soviet Union. Gellen said that the Soviet Union enticed with

693
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,760
this and that, but underneath its skirt one will see

694
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,440
the cloven hoof of the devil.

695
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: What else is there?

696
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 3: Alan Doles had a soft spot in his heart for

697
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:20,480
the good Germans. JEdgar Hoover was also present. When other

698
00:52:20,519 --> 00:52:22,199
items are there? I think that's kind of all that

699
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,360
I have to say on Gellen. Other than he was

700
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:32,719
extremely active as a West German spymaster, and that he

701
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:37,079
was worried about kind of the softening also of Germany.

702
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,639
Speaker 2: And his UH intelligence reports. Because let's keep in mind

703
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:53,199
the after rose and I think again, the more and

704
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,760
more I think back, and I tied back different things,

705
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:00,559
like I haven't thought about Gellen in forever, but it

706
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:04,400
reminded me that the CIA, ever since Dallas, was pushed

707
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:09,960
out of the agency he created by a man by

708
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,320
the name of who I've been screaming about for some time,

709
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,559
but has now recently come back into the spotlight with

710
00:53:18,679 --> 00:53:23,639
the JFK document releases. One James Jesus Engleton. If you

711
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:28,639
want to know who pushed Allen Dulles out of the CIA,

712
00:53:30,199 --> 00:53:37,239
it was James Jesus Angleton shortly before JFK was murdered.

713
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:43,679
JFK did not have any JFK's beef with Dulles or

714
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:49,199
with with the CIA, had very little to do with Dulles,

715
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:55,239
had nothing to do with Vietnam or the Bay of Pigs.

716
00:53:55,280 --> 00:54:01,159
Even the Bay of Pigs wasn't a failure. All of

717
00:54:01,199 --> 00:54:06,960
the guns that were supposed to be going to the

718
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,440
Bay to the Cuban resistance fighters were actually being stolen

719
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:18,400
for Israel out of a shipping and whatsh McCall it

720
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:25,079
company import export company out of out of Virginia, and

721
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:32,880
Alan got word of it literally, I believe, I think

722
00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:39,760
the night before the day before, and went to Kennedy

723
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,840
with it. So Kennedy knew why the Bay of Pigs

724
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,559
was a failure. He didn't neither of them knew in

725
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:50,159
time to stop it. But I guess it was in

726
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:56,599
charge of the Bay of Pigs, James Jesus Angleton, along

727
00:54:56,639 --> 00:54:59,000
with all the other stuff that he did when the

728
00:54:59,159 --> 00:55:02,519
f not to get sidetracked, like there was no daylight

729
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:12,000
really between Dulles and JFK. Except for nuclear disarmament. He

730
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:15,880
went way over the top. Really, to be honest, I

731
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,480
don't think a lot of us today realize how much

732
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:24,239
we probably would have disliked JFK. If he had lived,

733
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,400
he probably would have gone down as a as a

734
00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:32,679
Jimmy Carter. But Dummer, he was so serious about nuclear disarmament.

735
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,760
After the Cuban missile crisis, he was having back channel

736
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:44,119
conversations with Khrushchev about both countries' nuclear disarmament, you know, intentions,

737
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:52,679
and both men agreed that the priorities of Sonion and

738
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:57,519
the priorities of America needed to be nuclear force reduction

739
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,800
and eventual disarmament, and Khrush Jeff obviously saying he's going

740
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,480
to get a lot of pushback and whatever. That's why

741
00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:06,519
they had to use back channels, just the two of them,

742
00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:10,599
so like not Soviet back channels and not like American

743
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:15,800
back channels, but like JFK familial relationships talking to Kruse Jeff,

744
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:23,599
familial relationships outside of their own intelligence agencies and national apparatus.

745
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:30,119
Kennedy was going to start disarming first as a show

746
00:56:30,119 --> 00:56:33,599
of goodwill, like, oh yeah, well, let's get rid of

747
00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:38,199
our nukes and that's how you'll know we're legit. If

748
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,840
you have trouble selling it to the rest of the

749
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,440
polyp Buro, it'll be much easier when we just get

750
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,199
rid of our own nukes. And Alan got wind of this,

751
00:56:47,519 --> 00:56:51,639
and so did the Pentagon type people, and basically that's

752
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:55,719
where the static came from, which is also where a

753
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,159
lot of the static between JFK and David Ben Gurion

754
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,519
came from, because, you know, trying to disarm the Soviets

755
00:57:05,599 --> 00:57:09,639
only to find out that nuclear armament rapid armaments happening

756
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:11,800
in Israel from all this shit that they stole from you.

757
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,599
So that's where the beef was. All of the stuff

758
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:20,559
that you've read about Douglas JFK, Dear Listeners is bullshit

759
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,360
almost in its entirety, because if you talk about nuclear,

760
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,920
if you talk about what the real disconnect was, you're

761
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,880
going to land on Israel because it's all about disarm

762
00:57:33,039 --> 00:57:39,639
it's all about nuclear non proliferation. Sorry, Corey Hughes's book

763
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,079
is probably the best on it. I think he did

764
00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:47,239
a recent podcast with Astral and the one he did

765
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:50,199
with Jake Shields is really good at least like the

766
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,960
last fifteen minutes. Talks exactly about what we're talking about

767
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:59,480
now and cites all the sources and his research is

768
00:57:59,639 --> 00:58:04,119
really impossible to argue with. And he basically tells you

769
00:58:04,199 --> 00:58:07,239
exactly what the relationship is with Dulls and JFK, and

770
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,920
it's not what you're told. This is also why he

771
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,800
went on the Warrant Commission, so like after the death

772
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:20,880
of JFK and Lyndon Johnson. So if you're Ellen Dulles,

773
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,400
the guy that's been openly supported the Third Break, you

774
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,679
and your brother openly hostile the State of Israel. You

775
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,920
and the now previous dead president. We're in the process

776
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,960
of trying to stop nuclear armed proliferation by the State

777
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,599
of Israel that stole the nuclear materials. Like there's like

778
00:58:40,159 --> 00:58:43,480
ten guys that know what the actual story is. And

779
00:58:43,519 --> 00:58:46,360
the guy with all the political power, JFK, is dead,

780
00:58:46,559 --> 00:58:52,000
and a person who is an actual trader and pussy

781
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,960
whipped by a ergoon terrorist is in the White House,

782
00:58:58,599 --> 00:59:02,880
and Jewish power has just like wiped off the face

783
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:11,639
of the earth JFK, And very little attention gets given

784
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:17,880
to outside of JFK and RFK about the I don't

785
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,760
know a dozen and a half two dozen other people

786
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,400
that were in lower positions but also had all of

787
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,679
the same information and the same exact idea of like, oh,

788
00:59:29,679 --> 00:59:34,079
this needs to be stopped. There's probably about twenty assassinations

789
00:59:34,119 --> 00:59:37,920
in the JFK assassination. So if you're John, if you're

790
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,280
Alan Dulles and you're in your seventies or like late sixties,

791
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,039
what the fuck are you gonna do? You're going to

792
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,119
be an old man that has an accident, which is

793
00:59:50,119 --> 00:59:53,039
what I'm assuming he was told, because the day after

794
00:59:53,159 --> 00:59:56,800
JFK's assassination. Alan had already been pushed out of the

795
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:03,400
CIA by a whatever I'm trying to think of the

796
01:00:03,519 --> 01:00:06,119
term for it. If it was if it was geopolitical,

797
01:00:06,159 --> 01:00:09,920
I'd call it a false flag, but planting of evidence

798
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:17,280
and fuckery by by Angleton, his subordinate. He basically set

799
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,239
up a little mini privacy CIA out of his living

800
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,400
room with all the guys that got pushed out by

801
01:00:24,559 --> 01:00:28,280
Angleton and a bunch of guys still at the Agency

802
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,159
trying to figure out what the fuck had happened. And

803
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,039
as soon as LBJ got into that fucking White House,

804
01:00:36,079 --> 01:00:41,400
somebody apparently had a conversation with Alan and he closed

805
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:47,519
up shop immediately. So it's not like it's not like

806
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:49,599
they didn't know what's happening. It's not like they didn't

807
01:00:49,639 --> 01:00:52,199
try and push back. But at that point in time,

808
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:57,559
they have all the cards, Like you know, at that

809
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:03,039
point in time resistance to organize Zionism, it was impossible.

810
01:01:03,719 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 3: Well in the building up of it as well, like

811
01:01:06,119 --> 01:01:09,079
if your call from the Forest all stream, LBJ met

812
01:01:09,119 --> 01:01:12,719
with Forrest all in the mental hospital along with all

813
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:17,039
the other pro Zionist elements that were in Truman's administration

814
01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:21,599
at the time, and that was in nineteen forty eight,

815
01:01:21,679 --> 01:01:22,519
nineteen forty nine.

816
01:01:23,719 --> 01:01:27,079
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was open season on anybody that was

817
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,960
against the Zionist agenda. And they had all the political

818
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:35,000
power to basic and you had what's his fucking face

819
01:01:35,039 --> 01:01:40,880
in the in the Supreme Court, like they could basically

820
01:01:41,079 --> 01:01:43,199
torment you out in public and there was nothing you

821
01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:47,960
could do about it. That was a real dark period

822
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:48,280
of time.

823
01:01:49,559 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 3: There was an interesting Uh, I guess there's many There's

824
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,199
three different angles that could kind of go. I'm gonna

825
01:01:55,199 --> 01:01:59,800
start with the Angleton one and then go into Israel

826
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:04,880
and also nuclear. I suppose ah to know about Angleton.

827
01:02:05,199 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: He was that monument I told you about.

828
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't. I pulled up as you were talking

829
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,079
about it. Yeah, I can tell you all right. So

830
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:16,800
for those who don't know within uh So, it's located

831
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:22,719
at jo At Yemen musche So. This is a place

832
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:27,480
that is immediately adjacent to the King David Hotel, which

833
01:02:27,719 --> 01:02:31,639
I think is very strange. It's in the it's located

834
01:02:31,679 --> 01:02:35,440
in all these key like like a park complex very

835
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:41,519
close to Mount Zion and also next to like these

836
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:46,280
large the Menacham bacon Herotage Center, which is is interesting

837
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,840
but he has this little corner in this park and

838
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:54,360
to know about it. The park is located in a

839
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,880
spot I'm getting this off of the Jerusalem Foundation website.

840
01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:01,079
The park is located in a spot angle visited and

841
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:04,760
admired in the early nineteen sixties when it bordered on

842
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,960
the barbed wire friends that divided the city. The project

843
01:03:08,239 --> 01:03:11,760
was initiated by the then Mayor of Jerusalem, Teddy Kollik,

844
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:15,960
the Defense Minister Yitzak Labin, who later became the Prime

845
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:20,119
Minister and then was assassinated, and also the head of

846
01:03:20,159 --> 01:03:24,960
the shin Bet almos Manol, and the shin Bet is

847
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,840
the that's like the FBI equivalent within Israel. So there's

848
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,119
the Massad, which is kind of the CIA equivalent, and

849
01:03:32,159 --> 01:03:37,800
then the shin Bet is FBI. This little corner for

850
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:43,559
Angleton is one of four small memorial gardens. Another one

851
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:51,559
is the Rothshield Rothchild Sitting Corner. So the location there

852
01:03:51,639 --> 01:03:54,719
is very is very talent. I mean it is like

853
01:03:55,559 --> 01:03:58,440
it's the nearest park over to the King David, which

854
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,760
if you know about the history of Israel, that was

855
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:05,320
where the I think the Ilglun blew up the hotel

856
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:10,800
to kill a lot of British soldiers prior to Israel

857
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:11,360
being created.

858
01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:17,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're big into something called a practice called geomancy.

859
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, yep. This is true personal experience on this.

860
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,360
Like there's there's four not getting to a cult, there's

861
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,800
four cities within Israel at each correspond to elements and

862
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,000
the mysticism there and they're.

863
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, demon shit.

864
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,119
Speaker 3: But I anyway, that the last thing I'll say about

865
01:04:45,039 --> 01:04:46,639
I mean kind of the first. There's so many things

866
01:04:46,679 --> 01:04:49,159
to say about this. The joke in Israel when I

867
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:51,840
was there was that there was a textile factory in

868
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,840
de Amona and that was code for the nuclear site.

869
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,119
So it's an open secret that when Israel was getting

870
01:04:59,159 --> 01:05:03,480
its nuclear ar arsenal, that was set up at Demona

871
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:10,000
in Israel. And then oh okay, so that's the Israel

872
01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:11,119
stuff that's engleton.

873
01:05:12,039 --> 01:05:14,599
Speaker 2: I can kind of who is who is the person

874
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:23,639
that got caught but whose apprehension was deliberately thwarted by

875
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:27,719
one James Jesus Angleton. Right, So the one of the

876
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,320
interesting intelligence documents that came out with what I didn't

877
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,320
know because I knew about like all the Angleton stuff

878
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:42,840
just from like, yeah, like stories I would hear. And

879
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:48,559
what I did not know is that James Jesus Engleton

880
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:55,880
without I'm almost I can guarantee that Alan Dulas was

881
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,920
unaware of this. But James went to the FBI and

882
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:06,039
told the FBI that Alan wants him in charge of

883
01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:11,679
everything Israel and Israeli intelligence because at this point and

884
01:06:11,719 --> 01:06:15,039
that everything that the FBI collects should be brought to

885
01:06:15,159 --> 01:06:20,480
him directly, not through like the other official channels, because

886
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:23,440
you know, the FBI had channels with the CIA, and

887
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,840
if they you know, we're working on, you know, come

888
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,280
across some counterintelligent stuff like, oh, FBI thinks that like

889
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,639
these people are a bunch of fucking spooks. Okay, we'll

890
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,800
go tell the guys that are our spooks, okay, like

891
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,039
they have official channels for that. Angleton wanted it to

892
01:06:41,159 --> 01:06:44,360
not like that. He said, on orders of Alan Dulles

893
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,280
directly from the top, We're not to bring any of

894
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:51,159
the israel stuff and any of the stuff that you

895
01:06:51,199 --> 01:06:56,039
guys find on you know, any suspected Israeli intelligence agents

896
01:06:56,159 --> 01:07:00,079
operating in the US. That needs to come directly to me.

897
01:07:00,239 --> 01:07:03,840
And I am going to bring it right to Alan directly,

898
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:09,719
because we think there's a mole. Well, so what was

899
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:14,519
what was James Angleton's job? He gave him the free reign.

900
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:18,119
Why why was he this person with that, you know,

901
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:19,800
out of pocket all the fucking time.

902
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:24,639
Speaker 3: It's the principal agency liaison for the Foreign Intel Services.

903
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:26,679
Speaker 2: Now, but he was also the at the time. At

904
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:33,519
the time, the CIA knew that they had a mole

905
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:35,400
and someone was giving something to the Soviet It was

906
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:42,280
somebody was giving information to the Soviets. Guess who, A

907
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,880
person other than Alan Dulles. But I believe a genuinely

908
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:54,320
good person, an evil person. He suggested one James Jesus

909
01:07:54,320 --> 01:08:02,239
Angleton to be the person that finds the mole. Except

910
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:13,360
for James's Engleton was an an asset for Israeli intelligence, Like, well,

911
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:18,840
that's not Soviet intelligence, is it. Except it was. We

912
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,920
didn't have a Soviet mole. We had an Israeli mole,

913
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:31,239
and Israel the nation was our Soviet mole. Because James's Engleton,

914
01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:33,760
at the end of every single day would spend two

915
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:39,520
hours talking to a florist that had a that whose

916
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:44,760
shop was on his walk home, and nobody fucking suspected it,

917
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:52,159
Like nobody bothered, Hey, a there's a florist owned by

918
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:58,479
a foreign national, and the mule hunter of the CIA

919
01:09:00,239 --> 01:09:04,640
hunting is like, he stops by this same florists and

920
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:10,560
talks for two hours every day. And James doesn't have any

921
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:16,399
fucking flowers. He doesn't even have plants at his house.

922
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,199
Where the fuck is he talking? Nobody asked these questions.

923
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,720
But anyways, so the person who he was talking to,

924
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:28,720
I can't remember his name, but I believe he would

925
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,640
later become head of Israeli intelligence for a period of time.

926
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:42,640
But the person that got sorry was the person that

927
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:47,039
almost got arrested by the FBI, but James Jesus Angleton

928
01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:53,399
stepped in and stopped the FBI arresting him when caught

929
01:09:53,800 --> 01:10:03,640
stealing criytron triggers from you know, the navel in California

930
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:10,279
or southern California was one bb net in Yahoo. Young

931
01:10:10,359 --> 01:10:13,359
Bibe was the person that stole the other half of

932
01:10:13,399 --> 01:10:18,199
the nuclear bomb, and he would have gotten caught because

933
01:10:18,199 --> 01:10:22,920
the FBI had him pretty well stitched up. They also

934
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:26,960
had Demona pretty well stitched up. And the only reason

935
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,199
Benjaminette Yahoo wasn't on the front page of every fucking

936
01:10:30,199 --> 01:10:37,520
newspaper in the country was James Jesus Angleton kind of

937
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,640
like your little quip about like, oh and there was

938
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,720
a time like you know, I should have taken that meeting.

939
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:44,039
I would have saw Lenin and I could have put

940
01:10:44,039 --> 01:10:48,479
a bullet in his face. Imagine what the world would

941
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:53,239
have been like if Benjaminette Yahoo was still rotting away

942
01:10:53,840 --> 01:11:01,720
in some fucking gipmo place and the last I don't know,

943
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:06,039
twenty years, thirty years didn't happen.

944
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:11,359
Speaker 3: It's hard to tell. They wouldn't have the resources to

945
01:11:11,399 --> 01:11:13,960
pull a Jonathan Pollard and get him extra dieted. That

946
01:11:14,079 --> 01:11:20,119
whole ability to do espionage would be neutered. Can I

947
01:11:20,119 --> 01:11:20,680
flesh out.

948
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,119
Speaker 2: I'm a little more stuff for would have lost their guy.

949
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:26,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

950
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 2: Uh, anyways, sorry.

951
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 3: I think so it's interesting because, uh, what was the party?

952
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:33,840
I don't want to screw up with my Zionist history here,

953
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:37,039
but there's a reason I think yet such were being

954
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,960
commissioned to statute when he was defense chief, not prime minister,

955
01:11:41,039 --> 01:11:41,960
defense chief.

956
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:48,239
Speaker 2: Of political party? Uh in Israel lakut?

957
01:11:50,279 --> 01:11:51,560
Speaker 3: Uh shit?

958
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:53,199
Speaker 2: Is that?

959
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:55,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? Uh?

960
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,239
Speaker 2: Or are you talking about the opposite of the opposition party?

961
01:11:58,239 --> 01:12:00,000
That was only in self as one time?

962
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,319
Speaker 3: So generally it was like broadly leftist until nineteen seventy seven,

963
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:07,399
it was mapile Vedah, and then they switched in nineteen

964
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,680
seventy seven to Knock and Began and they've been like

965
01:12:11,159 --> 01:12:15,479
pretty much solidly lacut ever since. So yeah, Rabin is h.

966
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:18,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a one party state ever since.

967
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:23,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, they they split hairs domestically about this, but yes,

968
01:12:23,399 --> 01:12:25,760
the purposes of the coalition, it is a one party state.

969
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 2: Is that any different than what they do in the

970
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,640
United States? No, what really is the difference between a

971
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,439
Democrat and a Republican? What really is it? Like, Oh,

972
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,000
these are the things that we're going to debate fiercely

973
01:12:38,119 --> 01:12:40,600
on and make it look like we hate each other

974
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,840
and we disagree about everything, but in fact we agree

975
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:48,399
about everything, and we pretend to disagree loudly about this thing,

976
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:49,800
and we only do it in front of you.

977
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,359
Speaker 1: At least the Reich didn't, you know, fake it. At

978
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:58,039
least they said all that their parties are illegal. You're

979
01:12:58,079 --> 01:12:59,680
either with us or you're against.

980
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:02,119
Speaker 2: Us, because it always evolves down to this always.

981
01:13:02,279 --> 01:13:05,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I'd like to flesh a little bit more

982
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,960
circumstantial stuff about it, Angleton and then get into like

983
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:15,479
agency structure Angleton was put in charge of the CIA's

984
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,199
relationship with the FBI. There was a big rivalry at

985
01:13:19,199 --> 01:13:26,000
this time between FBI and CIA. Angleton was also pursuing

986
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,880
a CIA partnership with the mafia. Who are some of

987
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:35,640
these people that were getting involved with? According to this,

988
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,279
Angleton's work also brought him into close contact with the

989
01:13:38,359 --> 01:13:43,720
agency's rougher characters, including Chef Edwards's security cops who helped

990
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,600
install his bugs, and Bill Harvey, who was prominent in

991
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,520
a number of the agency's assashed the nation jobs. Angleton

992
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:57,439
shortly after Fidel pat Castro took power in Havana, he

993
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:03,640
summoned to Jewish CIA officers, including Sam Halpern who had

994
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,760
been assigned to the agency's Cuba team and the other

995
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,600
one isn't mentioned, and then both of them were flown

996
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:14,680
to Miami and set to meet with Meyer Lanski, who'd

997
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:19,840
been forced to flea Havana ahead of the revolutionaries. Lanski

998
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:21,680
was part of the Jewish Mob but had close business

999
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:24,920
ties in the Italian mafia. Angleton told Halpern and the

1000
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,399
other Jewish CIA agent to see if they could convince

1001
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:36,199
Lanski to arrange for the assassination of Castro's it's kind

1002
01:14:36,199 --> 01:14:38,920
of overblown at this point. But people like to talk,

1003
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,239
especially in the left, about how many times the agency

1004
01:14:41,279 --> 01:14:43,920
tried to kill Castro by like pouring stuff in his

1005
01:14:44,079 --> 01:14:48,359
drink and giving him an explosive cigar or whatever else

1006
01:14:48,399 --> 01:14:51,239
the deal was. But I did not know that Angleton

1007
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,159
was so prominently involved with this.

1008
01:14:57,359 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Cory Hughes also documented kind of conclusively that all

1009
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,239
of that stuff about US trying to assassinate Castro was bullshit.

1010
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,920
If you hear the uh, I mean, and when he

1011
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,720
says it, you're like, that's not true. And then you

1012
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:15,319
think about it. If you know anything about how propaganda works,

1013
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:21,640
you're like, oh, fuck, God, damn it. Whenever you hear

1014
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:25,960
public like that, there's I mean, if it's like a

1015
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:31,840
cultural meme about like the silly, cartoonish looney tunes acme

1016
01:15:32,039 --> 01:15:36,319
fucking exploding cigar things that the CIA tried to do

1017
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,720
to kill Castro, that should tell you that the CIA

1018
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:47,319
is lying to you. Yeah, just off off rip. They

1019
01:15:47,319 --> 01:15:53,399
were the CIA after Dulles. I mean, they made it

1020
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:57,079
illegal to be right wing after Nuremberg, and after Dulles

1021
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:03,479
they made it policy in the CIA. The only reason

1022
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:08,159
that fucking bearded fuck lived as long as he did

1023
01:16:08,319 --> 01:16:14,560
is because of the CIA. They've been a fucking left

1024
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:21,199
this institution ever since, ever since Dulles. Once the wasps

1025
01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:25,760
were purged, everything in that involves foreign policy out of

1026
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:29,680
the United States is leftist if it's an institution that

1027
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:34,399
deals with anything outside of our borders after Dulles and

1028
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:39,399
I guess you're saying maybe maybe now, even so now

1029
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:43,279
after Dulles and the executive branch has already fucking compromised.

1030
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,399
Second Nixon starts to try and do his own foreign policy,

1031
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:49,159
nobody told, nobody gave him an update like, oh, by

1032
01:16:49,199 --> 01:16:52,439
the way, we only do leftist shit internationally. Second he

1033
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:55,039
tries to conduct his own foreign policy, you got to go.

1034
01:16:57,199 --> 01:17:02,760
It's been a leftist institution ever since. CIA is basically

1035
01:17:03,239 --> 01:17:04,079
a total loss.

1036
01:17:04,319 --> 01:17:08,520
Speaker 3: Now is this a good time to bring up a

1037
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:11,560
secret team? By Fletcher Prouty.

1038
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 2: It's always a good time to talk about the secret team? Okay, Sure,

1039
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,800
it's an important thing for people to know. So everyone

1040
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:23,079
should pay attention to this bit because it still applies today.

1041
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:28,520
Just because a person is doing fuckory out of Agency

1042
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,439
X does not mean that they are an Agency X

1043
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:36,119
person and that is an agency X agenda, Sure, maybe

1044
01:17:36,279 --> 01:17:37,039
from somewhere else.

1045
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:43,560
Speaker 3: So there's there's two interesting points before I start here.

1046
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,680
The first is that like something you can google when

1047
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:50,680
you find the CIA reading room, is that there's a

1048
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:56,640
reading list for all of the different you know, introductory

1049
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:59,720
officers to the agency, and that they have to read

1050
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:02,680
a lot about the agency's history, but particularly they have

1051
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:05,720
to read about the OSS. And if you know about

1052
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,720
the OSS, you'll know that there's a bit of a

1053
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:15,000
delineation between like intelligence collection that the agency is doing

1054
01:18:15,119 --> 01:18:20,279
and covert operations that the OSS is doing. And another

1055
01:18:20,319 --> 01:18:23,039
thing to bear in mind about this information, because the

1056
01:18:23,039 --> 01:18:26,920
book I'm referencing was published in nineteen seventy, is that

1057
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:31,720
prior to the mid nineteen seventies, the agency did not

1058
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:38,199
button up all of its top secret information as tightly

1059
01:18:38,239 --> 01:18:41,720
as it does now. Currently. You know, if something is

1060
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:43,960
classified within the agency, you're not going to ever get

1061
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,399
your hands on it. But back in the day, in

1062
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,720
the forties, fifties, and sixties, because there's this big confluence

1063
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,960
of different agencies and the CIA is still forging its

1064
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:59,600
identity and clawing resources away from other federal departments, there's

1065
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:07,720
kind of missed overlaps of compartmentalization for security or clandestine reasons.

1066
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:12,880
So that's how someone like el Fletcher Proudy can exist,

1067
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,279
and also that he can present the information that he

1068
01:19:15,399 --> 01:19:19,039
does in a way where it's not censored. So to

1069
01:19:19,199 --> 01:19:23,680
understand who this man was. El Fletcher Proudy worked as

1070
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:28,640
the focal point officer for contacts between CIA and DoD

1071
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:32,680
on matters pertaining to the military support of the agency's

1072
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:37,760
special operations. He personally worked with Alan Dolls and John

1073
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:42,880
Foster Dolls. He recommends a series of books. I have

1074
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:48,760
some of them, not all of them, but he says

1075
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,199
that there's only a handful of books that really tell

1076
01:19:51,239 --> 01:19:57,920
the true story of the agency. There's an interesting inference

1077
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:00,119
to one of Dolls's famous quotes, starting right ou off

1078
01:20:00,159 --> 01:20:03,319
the bat from Prouty. The first is that Alan Doles

1079
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:07,039
is quoted as saying that intelligence is about ten percent

1080
01:20:07,199 --> 01:20:11,560
real intel, in the other ninety percent or so is

1081
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:17,920
clandestine operations. What that sets up for Prouty is that

1082
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:23,560
Dulles believes that the Agency is operating around the world

1083
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:27,600
all the time countering all aspects of the invisible war.

1084
01:20:29,279 --> 01:20:34,039
What this means is essentially intervening in the internal affairs

1085
01:20:34,079 --> 01:20:40,000
of other nations without their knowledge or their permission, beginning

1086
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:43,960
in both Berlin and Iran in the late nineteen forties

1087
01:20:44,279 --> 01:20:49,079
and continuing all the way through until Vietnam that Proudy

1088
01:20:49,199 --> 01:20:53,920
argues began as a major intelligence operation. Much of what

1089
01:20:54,039 --> 01:20:57,159
this Central Intelligence Agency as it is today, it has

1090
01:20:57,199 --> 01:21:03,279
become because of Alan Dolls. So to understand the overall

1091
01:21:03,319 --> 01:21:06,680
function of it, one document in my research that I

1092
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:10,279
pulled up was something called the Dullest Jackson Correa Report.

1093
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:14,199
It's from nineteen forty nine and it follows the official

1094
01:21:14,239 --> 01:21:17,680
creation of the agency after the National Security Act of

1095
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:21,079
nineteen forty seven. That's the document that formally creates it.

1096
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:26,560
But it's very specific, it's very compartmentalized in the functions

1097
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:34,079
that it grants for the intelligence operations. Previously, it was

1098
01:21:34,119 --> 01:21:37,520
something that was done under direct supervision of under the

1099
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:41,000
Joint Chiefs of Staff. To go back to Forrestall, you'll

1100
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:46,680
see that the intelligence capacities of the War Department were

1101
01:21:47,039 --> 01:21:50,600
very explicitly by Forrest All recommended as Secretary of Defense

1102
01:21:51,159 --> 01:21:53,840
to be directly supervised by Joint the Chairman of the

1103
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:58,680
Joint Chiefs of Staff. What this Dullest Jackson Correa report

1104
01:21:59,079 --> 01:22:02,600
that primarily pills rights and is put out on January

1105
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:06,319
first of nineteen forty nine, is that this is like

1106
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:12,239
the blueprint how I, as head of CIA, am going

1107
01:22:12,319 --> 01:22:18,359
to set up, design, and internalize the agency's responsibilities for

1108
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:21,680
it to function in exactly the manner that I wish

1109
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:25,560
it to function as, not as it is explicitly set

1110
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:30,960
up in previous government documentation in the National Security Act

1111
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:35,439
of nineteen forty seven. Just make that complex point very simple.

1112
01:22:36,039 --> 01:22:39,840
The federal government in the late nineteen forties, after World

1113
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:44,159
War Two, transitions from OSS to CIA. Through it. It

1114
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:48,920
goes through a series of bureaucratic processes. It gets stymied,

1115
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:53,159
it gets changed. Congressman at various points edit it, alter it.

1116
01:22:54,279 --> 01:22:57,279
The agency is in a big period of transition. So

1117
01:22:57,319 --> 01:23:01,479
there's four directors of Central Intelligence before dull But it's

1118
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:09,520
essentially this underutilized government agency until Dullas writes this plan,

1119
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,960
publishes it in nineteen forty nine, and that as he

1120
01:23:13,079 --> 01:23:18,319
presents it to Truman, it's essentially, Oh, your audience coming

1121
01:23:18,359 --> 01:23:19,239
through stormy.

1122
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:21,199
Speaker 2: Bad.

1123
01:23:21,319 --> 01:23:25,640
Speaker 3: It's all good. It's all good. The Jackson Carrera report

1124
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:30,840
then comes out. It's now Doullas's agency he is appointed

1125
01:23:32,119 --> 01:23:35,000
after Korea after the Korean War is kind of an

1126
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:40,159
intelligence failure to run and oversee this and that is

1127
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:44,119
where sorry, I'm like really over complicating this because there's

1128
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:48,119
just so much detail. So okay, the Dallas Jackson Carrera

1129
01:23:48,159 --> 01:23:52,840
Report was the CIA's mind comp Dulas describes exactly how

1130
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,600
he's taking this from a low key intelligence coordination center

1131
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,479
to a major power center in the US government, and

1132
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,880
he can therefore position himself as the closest advisor to

1133
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:07,039
the president. So the function of this secret intelligence organization

1134
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:11,399
is to have a top echelon operations facility at the

1135
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:16,239
White House level, a hidden infrastructure throughout other departments and

1136
01:24:16,279 --> 01:24:20,560
agencies of the government, and also the greatest operational capability

1137
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:23,239
all over the world. So when you read about Cold

1138
01:24:23,279 --> 01:24:27,560
War era agency facilities, they're located everywhere on the planet.

1139
01:24:28,359 --> 01:24:31,560
And so how this comes to be done from Dulles

1140
01:24:32,279 --> 01:24:35,399
is that in the report in nineteen forty nine, he

1141
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:39,279
recommends a daily twenty four hour briefing being presented to

1142
01:24:39,479 --> 01:24:44,439
the president and that the best information and actionable and

1143
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:50,239
operationalized intel should be collaborated on and presented solely by

1144
01:24:50,239 --> 01:24:53,920
the CIA for the reception of the president. Now, why

1145
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:58,279
something as bureaucratic as that matters, is that the agency

1146
01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:02,079
has direct control over what the presidencies and therefore they

1147
01:25:02,119 --> 01:25:07,680
are the only organization in a position to set forth

1148
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:13,319
the response to the intelligence. So intel comes in, the

1149
01:25:13,359 --> 01:25:16,119
CIA produces it, They recommend a plan of action to

1150
01:25:16,159 --> 01:25:19,439
the president, the President signs off on it, the CIA

1151
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:24,119
executes it. It's a cycle, and that is what establishes

1152
01:25:24,159 --> 01:25:29,119
the agency into the most powerful organization in the United

1153
01:25:29,119 --> 01:25:33,840
States government outside of the DoD. Because the DoD does

1154
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,960
not have such direct access to the president, they have

1155
01:25:37,039 --> 01:25:40,840
to go through the Joint chiefs of Staff, which is

1156
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:43,560
much more of a council and which is much more

1157
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:50,039
hierarchical and is generally presumed to be and assigned to

1158
01:25:50,119 --> 01:25:57,439
be nonpartisan. But the CIA has no such limitations. So

1159
01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:05,119
let's see here, what is there to glean from this

1160
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:13,640
rowdy is monitoring the agency. So okay, so you've created

1161
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:19,079
all these different departments and the agency has control and

1162
01:26:19,119 --> 01:26:21,960
the ear of the president. But what happens when the

1163
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:26,600
president wants to derive information from DoD, Well, the agency

1164
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:29,920
can just put somebody in the DoD and if that

1165
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,319
sounds insane. I'm going to give a real world example.

1166
01:26:34,159 --> 01:26:40,439
The way that the agency operationalized its offensive capabilities was

1167
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:43,520
by working with it Browdy as a focal point officer,

1168
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:45,760
so he has to sign off on all the special

1169
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:50,920
operations and the agency itself, Yes, it can purchase planes.

1170
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:55,399
But imagine if you have a CIA pilot, a CIA

1171
01:26:57,079 --> 01:27:02,760
you know, team of operatives, you have a CIA electronics

1172
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,119
warfare or like decoder on that plane, and that plane

1173
01:27:06,119 --> 01:27:09,000
gets shot down. Well, now you're fucked because the enemy

1174
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,159
country can look at it and see that. You know,

1175
01:27:12,239 --> 01:27:14,560
you can't have an ID in one of those guys's pocket.

1176
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,600
That says CIA. It has to have something else. So

1177
01:27:18,039 --> 01:27:20,880
they would either use foreign governments or they would use DoD.

1178
01:27:21,359 --> 01:27:24,840
Now for the DoD to have fake members created for

1179
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:29,000
the agency, that requires DoD approval of the creation of

1180
01:27:29,039 --> 01:27:33,000
those operatives. So the way that the US government and

1181
01:27:33,039 --> 01:27:37,479
in particular the CIA, conducted offensive operations was they would

1182
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:42,359
have this like like a d C six or like

1183
01:27:42,399 --> 01:27:46,720
a DC three, a Douglas aircraft, which is a fairly

1184
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:50,439
large aircraft at the time, propeller driven. They would make

1185
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,560
everyone in there a member of the Department of Defense,

1186
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:55,560
they would have ID, they would have rank, they would

1187
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:58,880
have uniforms, they would have all US Army or US

1188
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:02,840
Air Force weapon in paperwork, but they would be Central

1189
01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:05,880
Intelligence Agency. That would just be a cover. And the

1190
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:09,239
agency realized that if it could operationalize all these people

1191
01:28:09,279 --> 01:28:12,880
all over the world to do everything from reconnaissance to

1192
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:19,279
regime change, to covert operations, whatever, espionage function, guiding and

1193
01:28:19,319 --> 01:28:23,760
training local militias in country, why couldn't it just you know,

1194
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,920
if you have a kernel flying the plane of a

1195
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,880
CIA aircraft and that man is a CIA agent, why

1196
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:32,319
couldn't you just have someone in the Pentagon who's CIA.

1197
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:36,399
So I know that this is one of your core points, Stormy,

1198
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:42,640
with how the agency puts agency people in various positions

1199
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:46,159
of power. So do you have anything to add on

1200
01:28:46,199 --> 01:28:46,680
that point?

1201
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 2: No, that was extremely detailed and not being acecious law.

1202
01:28:52,039 --> 01:28:52,800
That was actually great.

1203
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah I can so I can add on that. So like, okay,

1204
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:01,560
so one of the thing, give me, I'm just going

1205
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:06,439
to turn the lights on here, just perfect, okay. So

1206
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,279
page one eight, So okay, so so proud he's in

1207
01:29:10,319 --> 01:29:12,880
this position and he's seeing all these d OD guys

1208
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:15,159
getting flown over the world, that he knows are CIA,

1209
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:19,399
and ultimately it becomes a point of contention because at

1210
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:25,319
the time, I think he's a colonel fulbird colonel. And

1211
01:29:26,079 --> 01:29:29,239
I think you said something very interesting on your last podcast, Stormy,

1212
01:29:29,319 --> 01:29:31,560
which is that colonels are the ones who really make

1213
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:34,960
shit happen within the US military. Generals are much more

1214
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,960
of like a political role, but if you want something

1215
01:29:38,039 --> 01:29:41,079
to actually get done, right, I think both you and

1216
01:29:41,159 --> 01:29:44,720
Pete have talked about this, like there's there's Colonel McGregor,

1217
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:49,479
there's that other colonel who was also featured on Tucker

1218
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:52,319
talking about the Ukraine funding. So a lot of these

1219
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:56,399
on the ground guys are going to be lieutenant colonels

1220
01:29:56,439 --> 01:30:01,800
and colonels, and so he he sees this stuff on

1221
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:06,680
the ground and what he's let's see here, I have

1222
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:09,680
to pull a good point, so I'll pull this as

1223
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:12,600
a direct quote so it's more coherent. During the past

1224
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:15,039
twenty years, there have been many times when the Secretary

1225
01:30:15,119 --> 01:30:17,840
Defense or other military official has stated that the United

1226
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:20,279
States needed to go ahead with the development of a

1227
01:30:20,319 --> 01:30:22,880
new bomber, a new submarine, or even a new missile

1228
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:26,880
system because intelligence had acquired information which indicated that the

1229
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:30,800
Russians had such a bomber, submarine or missile, and if

1230
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:38,000
they develop it, then of course we find that we're

1231
01:30:38,079 --> 01:30:45,000
behind the times. So very very seldom are these facts

1232
01:30:45,079 --> 01:30:50,119
about military information revealed to the public, even to congressional committees,

1233
01:30:50,399 --> 01:30:56,079
and huge expenditures have been made on partial information. Why

1234
01:30:56,119 --> 01:30:59,439
do I bring up that kind of institutional point. Well, because.

1235
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:01,239
Speaker 1: A lot of the.

1236
01:31:01,399 --> 01:31:07,560
Speaker 3: Information that guides procurement in Congress or guides DoD experimental

1237
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:12,039
technology development, like Trump just announced the forty seven. Well,

1238
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,199
for some accounts, it's been operational for the last five years.

1239
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:22,439
DoD developed it because probably at some point someone in

1240
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:26,199
the intelligence community wrote a briefing saying that the Russian

1241
01:31:26,279 --> 01:31:30,239
and Chinese are developing more advanced fighter aircraft. Right, So

1242
01:31:30,359 --> 01:31:34,079
DD would not have made that decision without agency advice.

1243
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:41,760
So to understand how the agency operationalizes its own intelligence,

1244
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:51,600
it's that there's monumental amount of raw polytical information out there.

1245
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:57,600
According to Dulles. In Tragedy and Hope, Carol quickly writes

1246
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:01,920
that Dulles said ten percent of agency information is actually

1247
01:32:02,079 --> 01:32:06,720
legitimately classified. Ninety percent of it is open source intelligence information.

1248
01:32:07,039 --> 01:32:09,880
So that's all stuff that you can publicly see through

1249
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:15,520
like reading newspapers or you know, just pulling a poster

1250
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:19,840
off a wall, or reading a political dispatch or something

1251
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:22,640
in a government office. For the most part, like declassified

1252
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:27,399
information is what it works in. So if that is

1253
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:31,279
the case, using that information as a machine, as a

1254
01:32:31,399 --> 01:32:36,279
function to turn it into eventually an ask with that

1255
01:32:36,479 --> 01:32:40,720
like very small amount of classified information to become like

1256
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:48,079
adod weapons system that requires the selective release and control

1257
01:32:48,199 --> 01:32:56,920
and analysis of information. If let's see it's grace traction report.

1258
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:05,439
As General Dolevant Donovan and Allan Dalls had proposed, the

1259
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:08,560
very success of secret intelligence would from time to time

1260
01:33:08,960 --> 01:33:13,600
create its own requirements for subsequent clandestine operations for no

1261
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:18,239
more reason than the intelligence input had detected something somewhere.

1262
01:33:19,199 --> 01:33:22,960
The legislators knew that clandestine operations would grow out of

1263
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:25,479
the findings of secret intelligence, whether or not there was

1264
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:28,359
any national plan or policy to carry out in the

1265
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:32,199
first place. This is why the Donovan, Dullas Clifford school

1266
01:33:32,239 --> 01:33:35,439
of thought requires the existence, real or imagined of a

1267
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:39,520
constant enemy Communism. With a constant enemy, every bit of

1268
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,880
secret intelligence that reveals the existence of communism is its

1269
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:46,720
own reason for the development of an operation, then the

1270
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:50,600
CounterPunch becomes the action of a machine, not of minds.

1271
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:57,079
So I bring that up because the modern conception of

1272
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:04,199
how the US conducts espionage overseas and how it carries

1273
01:34:04,239 --> 01:34:09,000
out covert operations is that the US like systematically went

1274
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:13,600
to every left wing country in Latin and Central America

1275
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:16,760
and Eastern Europe and just and Africa and just like

1276
01:34:17,079 --> 01:34:23,239
knocked them over needlessly. A lot of that was on

1277
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:29,920
clear intelligence of communism. And because this is very key

1278
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:33,880
and it speaks to like the anti communist, like pro

1279
01:34:34,039 --> 01:34:37,079
Nazi element of dullest like the guys at the top

1280
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,760
were looking at the United States as the most powerful

1281
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:45,880
country in the world, which had coached the best possible

1282
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:50,199
espionage operatives from the Nazis, and we're now tueling them

1283
01:34:50,239 --> 01:34:52,760
against the Soviet Union. So if you have the most

1284
01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:57,680
powerful country with the best people, you would want to

1285
01:34:58,159 --> 01:35:02,079
leverage that as strongly as possible against the Soviet Union.

1286
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:04,319
And if you have the biggest stick on the block,

1287
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:08,960
why wouldn't you use it on every possible instance of

1288
01:35:09,159 --> 01:35:14,520
communism that you could find in the world. The next

1289
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:18,039
part I would talk about would be the guatemal In

1290
01:35:18,159 --> 01:35:20,800
a United Free Company stuff. I was wondering if you

1291
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:22,640
had any thoughts on that, Stormy, But that's a bit

1292
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:23,600
of a subject change.

1293
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we might have to save that for another day,

1294
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:29,680
to be honest, that's a whole other tangent.

1295
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:34,880
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, that's a I mean, that's a series unto itself.

1296
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:39,399
Speaker 2: I think it's a good series because I think it

1297
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:42,600
was the last time the CIA was actually doing things

1298
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:46,960
that were for America. And anybody that thinks that it's

1299
01:35:47,039 --> 01:35:50,000
just for like rich people and their overseas possessions, they

1300
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:51,319
don't understand how power works.

1301
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:55,880
Speaker 3: I have a good, very specific incident on that point.

1302
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:01,239
There's a good inside look at the agency from the

1303
01:36:01,319 --> 01:36:05,359
mid nineteen seventies from its a biography of Richard Helms.

1304
01:36:06,079 --> 01:36:08,880
At one meeting in nineteen sixty one, this special group

1305
01:36:09,439 --> 01:36:13,199
at the agency discussed an incident in Singapore in which

1306
01:36:13,239 --> 01:36:17,039
two CIA technicians have been arrested while trying to polygraph

1307
01:36:17,119 --> 01:36:21,960
a potential recruit in Singapore's Special Branch of the National Police.

1308
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,359
The polygraph operator had literally tried to eat his graphs

1309
01:36:26,399 --> 01:36:28,600
when he didn't like the results. So the Prime Minister

1310
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:32,560
at this point, the brand new Lee Kwon U was furious,

1311
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,880
and his anger only increased when an attempt was made

1312
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:38,640
to bribe him with three million dollars in cash to

1313
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:42,319
drop charges against the CIA people. And there's a back

1314
01:36:42,399 --> 01:36:46,439
and forth between at the time Bundy whose Secretary of

1315
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:53,119
State sorry sorry, George Bundy edy special assistant to this

1316
01:36:53,279 --> 01:36:57,039
fucking title, special Assistant to the President for National security affairs.

1317
01:36:57,520 --> 01:37:01,680
Very arrogant guy, more State department than agency. He got

1318
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:08,720
into an argument with Dulas over this incident. Bundy wanted

1319
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:11,680
all future agency operations of this sort to be cleared

1320
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:15,359
in advance with him. Dulls refused to agree. This was

1321
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:19,399
CIA's province, the very heart of its expertise. Bundy was

1322
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:21,600
in effect proposing that he be put in charge of

1323
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:24,840
foreign intelligence collection, and that he was about to be

1324
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,079
entrusted with the identity of just about every agent's in

1325
01:37:27,119 --> 01:37:31,000
the CIA. Imply employee, Dulas was not about to explain

1326
01:37:31,079 --> 01:37:33,760
his objections to this young man. He just said no.

1327
01:37:36,039 --> 01:37:42,560
Dulas's tone was almost courtly. Let's see, so, Bundy says

1328
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:45,760
to Alan, you must realize this has a political aspect

1329
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:48,920
to it. Dulas's tone was almost courtly, his voice soft,

1330
01:37:49,039 --> 01:37:51,800
each word distinct, Yes, Mac, I do understand that there

1331
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:54,479
are some political aspects to this. Thank you very much

1332
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:57,199
for pointing this out to me. But Dulles knew how

1333
01:37:57,239 --> 01:38:00,479
to say no and Dulas want. But that only brushes

1334
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:03,560
the surface of Dulas's underlying flint. He was a hard man.

1335
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:07,239
He did not shrink from ordering the assassination of foreign leaders,

1336
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:10,399
and as a general rule, his charm but not his power,

1337
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:14,319
stopped at the water's edge. At a State department meeting

1338
01:38:14,359 --> 01:38:19,239
about how to duel how to deal with Jamal Abdul Nasser,

1339
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,920
that's in the Egyptian president I think around nineteen fifty

1340
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:26,279
six and nineteen fifty seven, Dulles told a State Department officer,

1341
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:28,920
if that colonel of yours pushes us too far, we

1342
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:34,079
will break him in half. The threat was not an idle.

1343
01:38:34,119 --> 01:38:37,960
One other national leaders who elicited the anger of the

1344
01:38:38,039 --> 01:38:42,399
Dulles brothers did not survive. Mohamed Masade of Iran and

1345
01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:46,319
Jacobo are Benz of Guatemala for those who don't know.

1346
01:38:46,399 --> 01:38:49,920
In nineteen fifty three, the CIA overthrows the Iranian government

1347
01:38:51,359 --> 01:38:57,880
because Masada nationalized Anglo Iranian oil company, and I think

1348
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:01,640
they used Rose else cousin or something for that one.

1349
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:05,159
There's there's so many other sources with this, like I

1350
01:39:05,199 --> 01:39:12,479
haven't even touched a tragedy and hope as well as shit,

1351
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:14,560
what's the other one? There's a couple other little like

1352
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:18,760
stories I have about the agency, kind of funnier, lighter ones.

1353
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:25,479
Sukarto was I think the president of Indonesia in the

1354
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:30,880
nineteen sixties and the Agency wanted him removed. And the

1355
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:32,960
agency thought that the best thing they could do at

1356
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:36,039
the time was make a sex tape of Sukarto because

1357
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:39,439
if they showed this sex tape to the Indonesian public,

1358
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:42,199
they would be scandalized about it because they were like

1359
01:39:42,239 --> 01:39:46,760
a majority Muslim nation. So they got they got this

1360
01:39:47,039 --> 01:39:50,680
like fat Mexican guy who looked like Sikharto to like

1361
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:54,560
fuck a prostitute. And then they took that recording and

1362
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,079
they sent it to Indonesia and like publicized it there

1363
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:02,359
and the Indonesians thought it was Zukarto. But in Indonesia,

1364
01:40:02,439 --> 01:40:05,600
you're like a big man if you're like promiscuous, So

1365
01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:12,560
the popularity for Sukarto actually increased in time. And uh

1366
01:40:13,079 --> 01:40:16,760
was another anecdote about the agency operations. I want to

1367
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:20,119
like quickly illustrate the difference between like how the United

1368
01:40:20,119 --> 01:40:24,960
States and how Israel does things specifically follows.

1369
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:28,119
Speaker 1: Let's let's do a part two.

1370
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:31,880
Speaker 3: Yeah sounds good. I know this is like, this is

1371
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:33,000
a lot. This is a lot.

1372
01:40:33,079 --> 01:40:35,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. Topic, Yeah, because we're gonna we're gonna jump into

1373
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:38,600
something else and and we could be like I said,

1374
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:40,720
I think I started this off by saying I have

1375
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:43,640
a feeling we could go three hours and if I

1376
01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:45,600
don't cut it off now, I think we will. And

1377
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:50,199
Stormy has to jump too, so I will. Yeah, let's

1378
01:40:50,239 --> 01:40:55,159
do that. Thank you, filos. Uh do a quick plug.

1379
01:40:55,359 --> 01:40:56,119
We'll get out of here.

1380
01:40:57,039 --> 01:40:57,199
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1381
01:40:57,239 --> 01:41:00,439
Speaker 3: I have a YouTube channel, follow Smiscellany, Not really, but

1382
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:02,199
that's my plug.

1383
01:41:03,319 --> 01:41:05,600
Speaker 1: All right, Stormy, you want people to follow you?

1384
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:07,880
Speaker 2: Follow you on Twitter, follow me on Twitter. That's the

1385
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:11,000
only thing I have. And next time I will budget

1386
01:41:11,119 --> 01:41:12,199
at least two hours.

1387
01:41:13,119 --> 01:41:15,920
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, I think we're gonna need it, all right, guys,

1388
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:19,119
I think this is enough for people to chew on

1389
01:41:19,279 --> 01:41:19,880
for right now.

1390
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 2: So it's important for people to know how like intelligence

1391
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:27,600
actually works because it's it's such a a meme that

1392
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:30,680
I think is kind of hurts people's understanding when they

1393
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:33,000
try and you know, figure out what's going on.

1394
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:36,560
Speaker 1: All right. All right, guys, have a good night.

1395
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:39,159
Speaker 2: Thank you. All right boys, good night,