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Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingyona Show. Ron
Dodson's back. Hey Ron, how are you doing?
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean you know there's nothing going on in
the world, Pete. We just figured I figure we'd talk
hockey today.
Speaker 2: We can do that. We can do that. I can
do that. For hours.
Speaker 1: I think people have people have found out recently that
I can do that for hours. I want to say
that your episode that isn't public yet with Jay Burden
talking about exactly how you would make a nuke almost almost,
but how what it takes to get to a nuke
is very good and I hope people when that drops
on Jay Burdens feed people listen to that because I
think there's a lot of really good information there.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I I actually study that in undergrad under
the great late Herb Simon, who was a Nobel Peace
Prize winner and was with RAND and DARPA and was
some of the game theory intellect behind mad theory, mutually
sure destruction theory and anti ballistic missile treaty that was
signed with the Russians. And so I actually studied personally
under Herb Simon and that's kind of my background in that.
So it's been a long, long term passion of mine
and I really appreciate the kind words it was. Jay
helped move what was a very technical topic. He helped
move it along and hopefully it's not too boring for folks.
Speaker 2: No, Pilo wasn't in the car yesterday. It was fantastic.
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, man, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: All right, man, we it's been I think a month
since we talked to I ran and uh yeah, well
here we go.
Speaker 3: It's well, yeah, I think the I've written a couple
of I've got a piece coming out for Claremont on
probably Tuesday that I wrote about a week and.
Speaker 2: A half ago.
Speaker 3: And then I got a piece coming out on Easter
Sunday for Responsible state Craft, and and and on. I've been,
you know, skeptical from last spring about any attack on
Iran because it because of their or a host of reasons,
but but mainly because they have all the advantages in
this and that's just been born out. And that's I
take no pleasure in being right about that. I'm an American,
I'm a I'm a proud American. I want us to succeed,
even I'll admit even when we're wrong. You know, I
think we're wrong in this case. I think there's there's
we've almost ventured into the realm of being the bad
guys in this case. But we can talk about the
metaphysical issues in a bit. I think to come up
to speed. I think the cleanest way to frame where
we are right this moment is is this the the
tactical picture is getting worse for Washington, and those whom
we for better or worse have our saddles. Hitch two,
even though we retain overwhelming destructive capacity. And the biggest
development to day is we have an F fifteen to
E So that's a strike Eagle or in the in
the biz nickname the mud Hen. It was shot down
over Iran and search and rescue operations launched. At least
one crew member's been picked up. I think they're continuing
to look for the second. I haven't checked the news
feed in the last forty five minutes or so, but
this makes the first the first confirmed total loss over
Iranian territory of the war. We had the friendly fire
I say friendly fire in quotes in Kuwait. But this
matters because it punctures any of this easy air supremaci
air supremacy has solved all problems. It punctures that storyline,
and it reminds everyone that Iran still retains meaningful denial
capacity beyond just their ability to drone and missile their
neighbors to death. And so Reuters reported also that thirteen
US service members killed and more than three hundred wounded
so far. And so that's that's a mess right there,
and we can we can move on from there. But
that in and of itself shows that this is not
a special military operation where we are going and with
unfettered access, exercising our will or imposing our will. The
it's very much the contrary. And then of course the
big issue is this choke, this strategic choke point of
the Strait of Horn moves.
Speaker 2: At the.
Speaker 3: At the outlet of the Persian Gulf. It's worse than
being closed. It's it's being it's being sporadically opened for
whomever the Ranians want to keep it open for. So
that's the worst of all possible worlds. Because what we
want in theory, I say, in theory, we can pick
that up in a minute. We want this to have
for our golf, you know, protection partners. We want free
and open navigation through that choke point. And it's the
exact opposite right now. It's a complete and total Iranian control.
I saw earlier that it looks like I don't want
to speak out of turn here. Yeah, a French freighter
was trying to trans transition through the straight to the
North and that was about ten hours ago. I have
I don't have. Maybe you do. I don't have an
update on the status of that ship. I don't have,
But how that goes will be very interesting. Do the Iranians?
Are the Iranians going to allow for the French? You know,
it'd be fun. I'll give him this. They've got all
the cards. They could allow basically all traffic except that
which we want through. So the you know, the Emiratis,
the the bahrain Uh Passage, the Kataris, the Saudis, ever,
you know all that, all those who are partnered with us,
and I say partnered, they rely on us for for
military protection. They they could allow everyone else to pass through,
and that would be I say, humiliating. I don't know
if the president has the capacity to be humiliated anymore.
And I say that as one who has happily voted
three times for Donald Trump, and in certain areas I
think he has been a godsend. But this is a
disaster for the for the status of the United States
on the world stage, at least in the short to midterm.
We can speak about long term in a minute and
get kind of four or five D chess. But but
keeping it in the realm of the real This is
a this is a mess, and it's not good. In
his Dog and Pony show the other night. And I've
got friend, I've got many friends. I do some work
with the administration. I look again, I want the administration
to have success, but it's not. And that that that
speech the other night, that that was that the market
had had this huge run up and the oil had
come down in light of this big speech, and it
was it was, it was nothing. It was I'm afraid
that the president is exposing himself to being impeached in
the spring on pump and dump. You know, if trust me,
his enemies are looking at every trading record on oil,
on equity futures, on and defensive stocks, and if they're
playing both, if if they're trading actively in this, I
would not be shocked if if impeachment uh proceedings were
brought up and he could get he could get convicted.
It would only take a few uh uh swing senators,
regardless of how the elections go uh to to convict.
And again I don't relish that, but that's a real
that's a real possibility, and that should frighten everyone. I hope.
It's frightening those who have the presidents here. Unfortunately, that
seems like an ever smaller circle.
Speaker 1: You know, I think we can agree that when uh,
when Trump is abusing journalists and abuse you, abusing leftists
and calling, yeah, calling politicians Pocahontas and things like that,
it's it's fun, it's entertaining.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. This is war.
Speaker 1: This is the worst thing that humans do. And for
him to get up there and talk the way he did,
I was. I mean, it's fucking hard to call yourself
be proud of being an American when someone saying, oh,
we're going to bomb them back to the Stone Age,
and then PC principle heg Scept gets on fucking gets
on Twitter and all caps bomb them back to the
Stone Age. Look, these guys, when the left get they're
not destroying their enemies, the left is going to get
back in power, and they're gonna seek to put these
people in put put people like heg Scept and Trump
in prison.
Speaker 2: And at this point I don't feel bad for him.
I don't.
Speaker 1: After that speech, people are like, oh, that speech was nothing.
If you he didn't say anything. If you listen to
that speech and think he didn't anything, you're out of
your mind. He exposed himself as I mean, he may
as well have been Benjamin and Yahoo. He may as
well have called the Iranian people Amelek.
Speaker 3: That's right, No, that's right. There is a real you know,
even Schmidt, and who I really appreciate the thought of
Carl Schmidt, who was part of the you know, national
socialist regime. So he's you're not supposed to speak of him,
but is appreciated on both the left and the right
and thinkers since he did his writing in the twenties
and thirties and then later on into the forties and
fifties of the last century. But even even Schmidt, in
Nomas of the Earth wrote that the greatest danger is
the dehumanization of the other, because it will take you
to a place that you can't you can't get civilization back. Basically,
I'm butchering the argument for Schmidt fans. But but that's
the that's the basis of it. And and we in
the West, and and not just you know, Jesuits or Catholics,
but we in the of the Western tradition of coming
from Christendom and the Catholic states have always believed in
just war, which comes from the principles that Saint Augustine
laid out back in the in the fifth century, you know,
in the period about four hundred, four hundred and fifty
years after Christ, four hundred years after Christ. And these
are incredibly important principles. You know, A just war is
a war that can only be waged as a last resort.
All non violent options must be exhausted before the use
of force can be justified. Did we And again we
threw some of this out of the window or out
the window in World War two, Curtis Lamey, and we
used it to justify total war against the Germans and
against the Japanese, which I personally think was a mistake
beyond the philosophical issues that I think you and many
of your listeners would have just from a way to
wage war. When you go to total war and expect unconditional surrender,
you were forcing your enemy, you were dehumanizing your enemy,
you were looking for your enemies extinction. And I just
think that that is philosophically bankrupt and tactically and strategically inept.
But so anyway, did we exhaust all methods before doing this? Well,
here's here's the way. You know, we did not when
we were negotiating last summer and a friend of mine,
an acquaintance of mine, was on that negotiating team last
summer with the Iranians before we moved. The Israelis assassinated
the entire negotiating team using our special health special form
of the health fire missile. And now we've seen a
string of negotiating partners in Iran suffer the same fate
by the hand of the Israeli strikes. This is an
issue because you always want an off ramp. You always
want the ability. You may choose not to take it,
but you always want that ability to negotiate with the
one you were fighting with. You want to exhaust all
options because war kills people, and that's always bad. Doesn't
mean it's not justified. But if you haven't exhausted all
those options, at least Saint Augustine thought it was bad.
And then a war is just only if it is
waged by a legitimate authority. That's up for you know,
our friends, some of our more constitutionalists or libertarian friends,
really go on about the it is the Congress's job
to declare war, and I'd go back and forth on
whether or not the president has the legal capacity to
strike against you know, I don't. I didn't have a
problem with the strike against Venezuela. That's near and dear,
that's you know, a closer neighbor, that's part of our
sphere of influence, that's part of our near abroad, and
he saw the opportunity to do something. It seems like
it had a minimal loss of life on both sides.
So I didn't have a problem that some would suggest
that even that would require congressional authority. I think that's
difficult in this day and age. I think it would
have leaked. But but good people disagree with that, and
then we can talk about the other principles of just war.
But the point is right then and there in point one,
and then questionably in point two, we have we have
left what the West has always considered a mark of
civilization in how we've waged this. And I just think
that's a real I think that's a real problem because
if we're on the right, we're supposed to be about
order and peace and civilizational goals so that people can pursue, uh,
you know, a virtuous life freely and uh that's a
real I think we've crossed some to to to quote
tropic thunder, you're crossing some lines of the great Uh
Robert Downey Junior, his character Captain Osiris.
Speaker 2: There the.
Speaker 1: You talk about the West and the West is Christendom. Yeah,
Israel has nothing to do with that. Israel is not
the West. Israel is not Christendom. There is no Judeo Christianity.
That's a propag that's a propaganda term. It's something that's
been sold to people. Israel does not fight like we do.
Israel seeks to kill. They don't care if they take
out civilian populations. And one thing that you see, and
it seems that Trump is helping to push this through
and to encourage people, is to have more of an
Israeli attitude when it comes to civilians. Oh they're brown,
it doesn't matter if we kill brown people. Oh they're Muslim,
it doesn't matter if we kill Muslim people.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not this if you're if you're a
Christian and you're like promoting total war because oh those
people don't look like me, and they don't sound like me,
and they they worship a different god than me. I
don't take you seriously as a Christian. I'm sorry. You
have to show me your you can tell me you
have faith, show me your works. Your works look evil
to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and okay, So without getting you know, on a
tangent about Curtis LeMay and the history of total war
in this country, especially regarding you know, World War two
and all that.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also Vietnam, Vietnam. The victory metric in Vietnam
was debt, was the number?
Speaker 3: Yeah, body count and so but but this has been
this is one of the uh. And and don't hear
what I'm not saying. I'm not trying to appugne. I
was baptized Southern Baptist, so I can what I'm about
to say. I think I have a little bit of
moral authority to say. And I'm not trying to throw
a huge portion of our populace under the bus. But
I do want them to think the the Baptist and
by Baptists, dispensational Southern Baptist, all the Baptistic, you know,
the believer Baptism.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Sects of Christianity in America a church.
Speaker 2: And these are nomination Baptist.
Speaker 3: It's just that that's right, that's that's a Baptist view
of how one enters into the kingdom, so to speak.
Has well, how they gained citizenship. Uh, they would call
church membership, but how Sendom has always viewed viewed covenantal
kingdom church membership. They're this this what you know, this
Baptistic view of that tends to undercut, tends to not always.
You have a lot of reform Baptists out there, and
this wouldn't apply to them necessarily, but but but it
tends to undercut the universal claims of Christ. So, without
getting too deep in the theological weeds, just think of
the Great Commission, the Great Commission, and we all know,
you know, go and therefore go therefore make disciples, you know,
baptizing the teaching them to obey all that I've commanded,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and
the Holy Spirit. Everybody remembers that part. But what they
don't remember is the preamble that Jesus said. He says,
all authority in heaven and on the earth has been
granted unto me, and that includes, by simple logic, all
the people, whether they believe in him, whether they bowanee
or not, And Therefore, there is a gravity to killing
a subject of Christ. This is beyond the whole amago
dee question that that sometimes creates. Catholic Protestant. I tend
to be pretty Catholic on that, on that question. On
the I tend to follow the more. I'm pretty Catholic
in my ecclesiology. But but regardless of the amago dee,
the dignity of man and all that argument, put that aside.
Humanity is universally subject to Christ. So it is a
grave thing when you go and kill one of his subjects.
It may be just a we are just. The magistrate
is just when he bears the sword against the evildoer.
But there is gravity there. You don't do that lightly.
You don't treat somebody as Again, going back to Schmidt,
Schmidt really understood this. And in Nomas of the Earth,
where he talks about this, he begins the book saying
talking about this lordship of Christ. Everybody says, oh, I
don't know if Schmidt was a Christian or not. Well, no,
Master the Arth sure seems to claim that. He seems
to claim that he was, and he talks about this.
And so if you're going to go and wage war indiscriminately.
Just know that you are killing. You are killing not
only someone made in God's image, but you are killing
one of his subjects. And that's not just someone who
has been brought into the kingdom via covenant membership. And
so this American Baptistic ideal, the megachurch, the second grade awakening, uh,
fundamentalist idea tends to undercut that. Again, not everyone, not all,
but we tend to just treat well, you know, they're
just other and it's it's ugly and it's gross, and
again doesn't mean you can't fight war. Some have taken
this idea and become pacifist, and I think, you know,
the whole Bonhoeffer idea, and then some of the some
of the more radical Christian sects. I don't believe that's
the case. I believe there is a place for war.
I'm just Augustinian on this, as is the Catholic Church
as uh you know, I'm Presbyterian, Reformed uh Lutherans, they're Augustinians.
So I think we need a return to this idea
of what makes a just war. And I don't think this,
I don't think it was justified. I also think it
was just dumb. Uh. So I've talked about that until
I blew in the face and we you know, we
can discuss that. But but it's going badly, and it
was easily to see that it was going badly. And
the problem there is it calls to the competency of
this administration, and it was competency that we were all
looking for. The the that's what can we please just
get some We were tired of the Victoria Newlands. We're
you know, uh, we're tired of the Robert of the
Keg and view of the Neocon deal where you know, uh,
which falls into this too, where we're just going to
create chaos everywhere. So we're at least we're the king
of the chaos hill. No, no, absolutely not. We wanted
to get away from that, and we're doing the exact
same thing, except worse, not just worse morally, but worse
from a competency standpoint. And that is devastating for those
who thought, man, are we setting up for some right
word influence on this country for years to come? And
if I'm if I was an independent right now, I'd
be like, I want nothing to I'll take all the
bad that the other side has to get away from this.
And again I'm not an independent. I would never vote
for the other side no matter what. Give me stupidity
over evil. But right now we're we've got one toe
dipped in the in the evil pool, as you so
rightly put a minute ago.
Speaker 1: Well i'd be I think you know, I'm not a pacifist,
considering the conversation.
Speaker 2: We had before we went live. Yes, but you have
to fight.
Speaker 1: You have to fight a war for a reason, and
you have to seek to punish the guilty. And taking
out the starvation campaigns in Iraq in the nineties, the
you know, oh if we just if we just impose
enough torture and pain on a population of innocent people,
they'll rise up and they'll take out, you know, their leadership.
Well that's what they thought about in Iran. And from
what I've heard today, seven million this includes active military
and military that have retired from the Iranian military within
the last five to ten years, have pledged to fight.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: That's seven million people. That's seven million people who are
trained to fight.
Speaker 3: Look, this is a very this I don't think we
have a very good understanding of what you know, we
don't like no one would the whole death to America
chance and and all that. What we forget is is
that Hussein Sodom is saying and the old Aatola Kamani
were at war the or the Iraq Iran War throughout
the eighties. Well before we went and went to war
with Iraq, we actually helped Iraq use chemical weapons against Iran.
The Iranians remember this, Okay, So have we look we
had a good thing going from our perspective when we
installed we had the CIA install in fifty three a
a a secular dictatorship, and for the secularists in Iran,
uh Iran was pretty neat under under you know, the Shaw.
But they did they did lose there. There was a
portion of the of the population that very much was
treated poorly by the Shaw who they lost a they
saw themselves losing their culture to a materialist worldview, some
of the same things that we Christians mourn here in
the United States. And imagine it being at the hands
of a foreign placed dictatorship that was brutal, that would
you know, had had deaths.
Speaker 2: Do you want to have that Do you want to
have that conversation right now?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Let's not have that conversation.
Speaker 3: Now so and then so the the Iranians and Hussein
went to war with the Iranians and used chemical weapons
that we helped them procure, and they remember that. So
this whole idea of death to America just didn't spontaneously
generate out of the miasma of of Persia. No, this
there was reason for it. And we easily could have said,
you know, that was a those were uh. Uh that
was wrong and we are sorry, and so on and
so forth, and uh, we've put you, we placed you
for decades under this uh, under this sanction regime. I
understand that they were ready to come under i a
e A and I a e A Inspection regime just
for the removal of sanctions. The problem is that makes
one of our most trusted and our our most trusted
and important ally in the region very nervous because they
want Iran that is Balkanized, that is turned into Syria,
that has turned into Libya. But think about the result
of that. Iran is not universally Persian Persian Persia. The
Persians are the ruling class of Iran, the same way
the Han are the ruling class over all. The tribes
of East Asia. So if we were to balkanize that region,
you'd have five, six, maybe more groups with control over
that strategic choke point instead of one. So it's in
our best interest. Again in theory, it's in our best
interest for there to be a cohesive and rational leadership
in Iran. And we're not gonna You're not gonna regime
change them. You're gonna keep going down this road anyway.
The point is this has been a mistake. Tactically, I
don't understand. I don't see anyway for the military military
solution to this where if we take carg Island, we're
going to have maybe many hundreds dead. Uh. You know,
we can talk about tactically, but strategically it makes no
sense at least in the short and mid term long
in the long term, since does it? Could it now?
I don't think Trump or the administration is thinking this,
but there is the argument you could say that that
they're saying all these reasons to go to war for
a ran or just to cover to take this strategic
choke hold completely off the map, to make it unreliable,
to increase the strategic importance of a Monroe doctrine. North
America that has all the food, all the oil, all
the fresh water. And uh, the issue with that is
is that also increases the strategic significance of Russia. And
I think our most trusted ally isn't on board with
that either. So there's some real cognitive dissonance going on.
I don't know, what do you what's your read on that? Pete?
Speaker 1: Well, I think that Israel likes chaos, as you said before,
they whereas Christianity likes order, Judaism seems.
Speaker 2: To like chaos.
Speaker 1: It's throughout I've read the Old Testament. I've read the
Old Testament. I mean every forty years they start sacrificing
humans again.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, Judges, Judges wasn't just a wasn't just a
case study? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So, so they they like chaos. They they seek to
breed chaos. Where what you just described, where if the
of horror moves is really that important to world energy,
you would want one group in charge, even if it's
even if it's a hard even if it's a group
that you don't really like. That's at least you can
deal with them.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: People say, oh, you know, Iran is the biggest state
sponsor of terrorism, in the world. I don't think that's true.
Speaker 2: But in the end, but that doesn't happen. But it
has nothing to do with us.
Speaker 1: They hate Israel, their enemy is Israel. And it's only
time Americans have ever been you know, oh the Marine
barracks and be Root and everything.
Speaker 2: Oh why were you? Why were they there?
Speaker 1: And even Ronald Reagan said after that his biggest mistake
was sending those troops there. He knew he was doing
it on behalf of Israel.
Speaker 3: That that. Yeah, the history of that decision, it was
made very quick, if that's worth I'm trying to remember.
There's a great maybe it's a YouTube. I'll try to
look it up for the show notes. But there's a
great story of how that came to be. It was
a quick meeting that Reagan had. He didn't think it through.
It was absolutely a uh the uh uh. The Israeli
UH leadership wanted there to be a US troop presence
in Lebanon, uh, and we did not. Our generals were
completely against it. And he authorized it basically on a
whim to please this one you know, meeting that he had,
and then look what happened. Uh. It's a fascinating story.
It's a very sad story, and you're not.
Speaker 1: I'm not excusing it. It's horrible what happened to them,
but they The point is it doesn't have to happen.
That's right, Washington, George Washington and his I mean, people
are I know, people like hate George Washington at this point,
especially the Plan trusters, the people who think Trump can
do no wrong, they must hate that. George Washington said, no,
and alliances. You do not have alliances that put your
people at risk. If Iran is sponsoring if Iran is
financing Hesbala, the Huthies Hamas, what does that have to
do with us. It has nothing to do with us.
It has everything to do with Israel. And the only
reason it has anything to do with us is because
we are joined at the hip with Israel. And until
that stops, as Joe Ken's has been saying ever since
he stepped down d couple, tell Israel you are on
your own until you start acting like human beings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's talk about the history of this for a
little bit, because I think it's you know, I realize
I'm you know, I just turned fifty nine week and
a half ago. Scary thought, so I realize I'm older
than probably ninety nine percent of your listeners. Let's let's
talk about why how did we get where we are
and why did the Middle East? You know, there was
a point in time where the Middle East wasn't important
at all except as a the The US sponsored believe
it or not, missions Christian missions to the to the
to the area. But they basically let the UK and
the French have dominion over that whole part of the world,
you know, the the This is before uh, you know,
North Africa and and uh. Basically it was a hedge
under hegemonic control of the British Empire and the in
the in the French Algeria was a major French colony,
and and so on and so forth. And they let
you know, and there was British Palestine, and the Ottomans
had had control, and oil was discovered and suddenly and suddenly,
as basically the leaders the US led even more so
than than the UK the Industrial Revolution because of the
it was the time after the the US Civil War
was a business paradise almost to to to a greater degree,
probably than it needed to be to wear the point
where where Teddy Roosevelt had to come in and break up,
you know, uh, some abusive companies and everything. But we
had incredible and incredible uh industrial expansion and the and
the standard of living actually skyrocketed, and we saw the
the Middle East as a way to fuel that, and
so it became important. Now go on through World War One.
World War one happens, and the Russian Revolution happens, and
now suddenly it's becomes not just strategically important for fuel,
but now it becomes it starts becoming geopolitically important. And
the UK is trying to deal with it with this
Balfour dec declaration, and there's chaos. And then you get
World War two, and we're partners with the Soviets. But
world War two ends, and now that under Truman, that
relationship flips, and I will go on you know why
we were partners with the Russians, you know, and all that.
That's another topic for another day. I'm happy to talk
about that. That that deserves its own two hour screed
from me, but but not today. So now we have
the issue where we have the Middle East oil, which
is hugely important. We've got Texas Texan oil and uh,
Pennsylvania oil and Californian oil, but nothing like at the time.
We didn't realize what was coming uh. At the time,
the Middle East was hugely important because it could continue
to fuel our industrial capacity. But now we have this
issue with with We got to keep an eye on Russia.
And what does that make important? Well, that makes Anatolia,
that makes Asia minor. Turkey incredibly important because Turkey controls
the entrance to the Black Sea, which is the year
round Russian blue water port, and the entrance and exit
to the Black Sea is controlled by the Bosporus Dardnell's complex.
That's right there where Istanbul looks. It's where Alexander crossed
over into Asia when he was conquering the known world.
This is the one of those hugely important choke points.
So we put intermediate you know, we allied with Turkey
so that we could put intermediate range missiles there that
could reach southern Russia. We could have axe ingress and
egress into the Black Sea. And so Turkey is now important.
The Middle East is important still Israel and Israel we're
still kind of fighting a little bit with Israel. JFK
comes along and Israel's wanting nukes, and JFK says, no,
we don't you don't get nukes. You're you're, you're not
part of NATO, You're you're and he ends up losing
his head over it. And is that connected? I absolutely think, well,
I won't say absolutely, I believe that was connected. I
think if I think the argument that that jf K
was uh just murdered by this Russian sympathizer is kind
of crazy. But again, that's another two hours we can
spend Oswald. I'm in Dallas. You know Oswald's wife, Marina lived,
I kid you not less than a mile from where
I grew up and continued as I was a kid.
Oh yeah, there's Marina. Oswald lives right now in the
street in Irving, Irving, Texas. And everybody, anyway, everybody knew
that that I'm not everybody, but folks who were into
it knew that Oswald went down to Mexico City to
try to meet with the He met with the Russians
and everything. It's come out now with some of these
document releases that his that the Russians let us know
that he met with them and said we want no
part of this because they realized them being tagged for
a that he wanted to kill the president, he was
willing to do it. Could he get the Russians help?
And they wanted no part of that. And if they
wanted no part of it, who did, I ask you, Pete,
who did anyway put a pin in that? Then you
get LBJ and b Jay was absolutely uh philo semitic
uh before he was ever president. And but once he
was president was he absolutely yes? Calling them? Uh was
it orange shipment? Fruit shipments?
Speaker 2: I believe they were banana ships? I think yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: Uh. Then you get to uh, you know, Nixon and
Nixon I think handled it the way you should have
handled it, which is, look, we have some strategic we
have strategic interest there, but we want to be friends
with everybody. We don't want to be too closely allied
with anyone because that removes our ability to be And
he saw Iran as a wonderful that Iran Turkey. This
is before you know we bought uh uh uh he
saw Iran Turkey, the Saudi's and Israel is kind of
a four legged stool. Is a balance of power, and
they could all be minor regional powers and everybody was fine,
and no one got a really a privileged Turkey to
a certain extent because they were officially allies, but that's
always been a strained ally, so to speak. But I
thought Nixon handled it very very well, and in his
second term was set up to do some interesting things
with that. He also was doing wonderful things. We've seen
that this has come out with Pakistan again, trying to
have regional powers balance each other out so that we
wouldn't have to be over there all the time. Reagan
comes along, and I mean Carter comes along, and it's
an absolute s show. And I lived through Carter. I
was politically aware through Carter. When Carter took office, I
was ten years old, and it was a mess, and
it just got worse. He gives away the Panama Canal,
the the the the reputation of the that we're coming
on out of Vietnam, the reputation of the Armed services
is in the tank. People are treating not not good Americans,
but a lot of leftists are treating veterans like trash. Uh.
It's a it's a real mess. And Carter tries to say,
you know, he tries to he puts Sadat and and
oh good Monock and Beagan. He helps broker a piece.
Here's what really happened. We agreed to give Israel and
Egypt a crap ton of money every year, is what happened.
The number the two greatest recipients over the last fifty
years of US four and eight is it's not just Israel,
it's Egypt as well. So he does that, but our
reputation and then he tried, there's an Iranian revolution. They
take a bunch of American it's very anti American again
due to this conflict with the iraqis that we helped,
the CIA helped. It was a mess and death to
America and all this. They take a bunch of hostages.
Carter authorizes a rescue mission to This is how Delta
Force comes into being Delta Force. It's an absolute disaster,
tons of people killed, C one thirty destroyed, all this
kind of stuff, and our reputation is in the tank.
And Reagan gets elected. Now, Reagan gets elected in nineteen
eighty and our operational again, reputation is in the tank.
And Reagan gets elected on this idea of pro America.
We're going to bring all this back. The we had
sold a bunch of American equipment F sixteens and F
fifteen's to the Israelis and they use US equipment to
go and do this raid on the Iraq the reactor. Gosh,
what was that? Osserak? Is that right? I don't want to.
I don't want to the Israeli.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: June seventh, nineteen eighty one, the Israelis destroy this Iraqi
nuclear reactor and it is you know, operationally, it is
a masterstroke. You can. It was denounced by the US
at the time, but everybody was like, wait a minute.
They used F sixteens and F fifteen's to go bomb
this and took it out, And there was a sense
in which we wanted, you know again, one thing I
left out three Mile Island. I mean, I'm telling you,
the late seventies under Carter were just a disaster. You
probably remember some of this, Pete. I'm older than you,
but you probably remember a little bit of this. And
there was a sense when I mean you remember when
this reactor raid happened, and everybody's like, it's kind of
like the raid on Entebbe. There was a certain portion
of the populace that was like, well that's pretty pardon me,
but kind of badass. And over time we ended up
wanting to borrow from that reputationally and operationally. And so
this is where our greater partnership started under LBJ, but
really magnified under Reagan because of this operational excellence that
we wanted to participate in to do but ever to
bring the operational reputation of our arm services and our
intelligence services to bear. So that's how that we got
to where this is and it just never stopped. It's
only amplified. And I know that was twenty minutes of
me monologuing, but I want people to have this historical
of understanding understanding where it wasn't just one day we
decided that the Israelis were going to be joined at
the hip. It was a result of this historical kind
of mess that we got ourselves into and we saw
partnering partnering with them, I say we, the ruling elite
saw as a way to reputationally borrow some of their
excellence because we were in a mess at the time.
Did we need to do that? I don't think so.
But it was kind of a shortcut and it just
never is ended well.
Speaker 1: And you know, and you can also make the argument
that if it weren't for the Cold War, you wouldn't.
Speaker 2: We wouldn't have had that reputation.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have been looking for, you know, because I mean,
what what did the Cold War give us?
Speaker 2: First of all?
Speaker 1: World War Two guarantees Russia's existence because we fight, we
fight on the side of Russia.
Speaker 3: And now pete, pete, real quick, were I'm sorry? We fight.
We finance the Soviets. The Soviets were done without out,
without FDR and lin lease, they were done. There is
no the Germans would have absolutely destroyed them and they
probably start starving to death in Moscow. We we.
Speaker 1: I agree with like we had boots on the ground
with them. We didn't have boots on the ground with them,
but we financed their whole war absolutely.
Speaker 3: And and again I think without that, they cease to
exist as a political reality. And I say that is
one I love man. I've got a Russian ant, I've
got Russian uh cousins. That's a long story. Uh, But
I I love Dostoevsky. I I have no problem with
the Russian people. Are they a little different, Sure of
course they're different, They're Eastern there. But I don't have
any problem Soviets. I got no time for for Soviets
or Marxist sympathizers. I mean, I struggle, I struggle with
uh Karl Schmidt's uh encouragement not to dehumanize when it
comes to to to Soviets. Right.
Speaker 2: So the.
Speaker 1: So what we're looking at now is is where basically
fighting a war for the country that you think may
have assassinated one of our presidents. Truman's daughter says that
they tried to assassinate him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Truman was. Truman was uh uh the the
level of I don't want to speak historically out of line,
and I want to be respectful because Truman made some
very hard decisions. I think he did the best he could. Uh.
But but the the attitude, I don't think we have
any modern analog to the attitude of or maybe we do,
and I'm just missing it. Of the attitude that Truman
and LeMay had for anything that wasn't just kind of
baptistic American you know.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean he famously and this is this,
This happened Emmanuel Seller, who later opened up the Gates
of Toledo into the United States.
Speaker 3: Part part Seller for those playing at home.
Speaker 1: Went into Truman's went into the Oval office, banged on
the banged on the root resolute desk and said, if
you don't recognize the state of Israel, we're going to
run you out of this city.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So okay, I mean.
Speaker 3: And and and the and the issue not the issue,
but but I think people don't have enough of a
respect for the the A vast majority of the fellow
travelers of the Marxist fellow travelers were were there. There
was a sense in which, you know, Marx was raised
some you know, kind of Lutheran I guess, but was
Jewish ethnically, and there was a sense in which Marxism
was viewed by many as as this way to overcome
waspy dominance in America. Is that fair? I don't want
to overstate it.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely it's absolutely fair. Yeah, it's absolutely fair.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the after World War Two, when everything started
falling apart, everybody's like, oh, the National Socialists were socialists. Look,
it's in their name. Everybody was calling themself a socialist.
After World War One, everyone was calling themself a socialist.
And it meant different things to different two different groups. Yeah,
I mean, Mussolini was literally a socialist before the war.
And then you know, fascism take fascism takes hold. He
embraces more of the genteely kind of fascism. But yeah,
I mean it was obvious that it was used to
displace wasp power. And I'm one of these people who
is like, look, Christians rule over Christians, Jews rule over Jews,
that's right, Muslims rule over Muslims. I don't want anyone
other than a Christian being in the leadership of my country. Yeah, well,
I think that's just that's just the way I feel,
and Jews should want And look at what you I mean, oh,
well we have we have Arabs in the Kanesse. Yeah,
but they can't get a majority. They'll never get a majority.
You won't allow it. You want to be ruled by Jews,
Muslims want to be ruled by Muslims.
Speaker 2: Well, that's just the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's the that's the that's both the argument
against empire, right and where empire has actually succeeded. You
allow for that local rule, right, that it's a light touch,
so to speak, in theory the Muslims.
Speaker 2: You know, the Muslims actually did that.
Speaker 1: If you study that, if you study there the Ottomans, Yeah,
well they when they would go and conquer even in Spain,
in Spain, the caliphate there, they they didn't even interact.
They actually put the basically made the Jewish population policeman
over the Christians. And if you go read a book
by Bernard Backrock, he talks about how horribly that went
and how the Muslims had to step in and say, hey,
stop abusing the Christians. You know, we need these people
to grow our food. We need to collect taxes from them,
and you can and you can get so we have
there's a historical precedent for what we're going through right now.
Speaker 3: Interesting, that's an the politics of that area and era.
I only know not enough to speak cogently too. I've
studied more the the philosophical and theological impacts of Converso
and and Islamic transmission of the classical texts. I've studied
that more, But the actual boots on the ground, Uh,
you know what you're talking of. I can't speak it,
you know, I'd sound like an idiot speaking to it.
So that's interesting, though, I need to check out that,
check out that war.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's early early medieval Jewish policy in Western Europe.
It's a really good book, Florida, Florida University professor.
Speaker 3: Interesting, Well, let's get let's get back, because I think
this bears a lot of fruit and it goes beyond
just this disaster that we're in. Let's kind of really
quick summarize the rest of what Augustine said about just war,
because I think whether you agree with whether whether you
agree that Augustine should still be the ruling rubric for
us today or not, I think you at least need
to know this is the This is the cultural, theological,
and political foundation of the West, and so it behooves
us to just refamiliarize occasionally. Are are okay? How do
we get where were we? And how do we get here?
You know, we already talked about last resort, legitimate authority.
A just war can only be fought to redress a
redress a wrong suffered. What is the wrong that we
were suffering the United States at the hands of the Iranians?
I am I literally, I'm asking, honestly, Pete. Maybe you
can help me, but what's the wrong? For example, ample
self defense against an arm attack is always considered to
be a just cause. Got no issue with that. Just
war can only be fought with the right intentions. Okay.
So so now, so we've got last resort, legitimate authority,
redress of a wrong suffered Okay. Number four, A war
can only be just if it is fought with a
reasonable chance of success. In other words, lost causes are
not okay. You don't send your own blood and and
and and treasure to a lost cause. That is evil,
That is wrong. And I I'm sorry, but I love
our fighting men. There are best. But I don't see
how we win this.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I don't want I don't want
Americans to die or get hurt doing this, become maimed
or anything like that. But when you look at just
war theory, and this is what Christendom has used as
its benchmark, you know, since it was written for fifteen
hundred years now, there is no it fails here. And yeah,
the best thing, the best thing. If Trump wants to
continue with his bluster, his delusional, his delusional proclamations like
Iran can't even protect itself anymore, and they go and
shoot down at F fifteen and allegedly the rescue helicopter
as well that went looking for them, then seriously.
Speaker 3: I'm just cross the line that another combat plane crashed
in the Persian Gulf. That was at time, so about
a half hour ago that came across the wire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if we're.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want this to be happening. Let
him be, Let him continue to be delusional and say,
oh we won, and just bring everyone home.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: There's no reason Israel can't fight this on their own.
Iran gets to you know, the Persians get to stay
in power, they get to control the Straits of Horror moves.
We try to figure out a way to get that
open again. So that just French liner. You know, French
freighters aren't the only ones going through, and Chinese and
freighters aren't the only ones going getting through.
Speaker 2: And I mean, just fixed this.
Speaker 1: There's no Look, if you can't win, you can't win
against Iran. Everyone knows this in history. Everyone knows that
the only time the Persians ever lost is when they
went and tried to stretch their empire. That's right, that's
that's the But no one ever won on no one
ever defeated Persia. Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, it's just
you're not. This makes absolutely no sense, and the only
thing that it's keeping this going at this point as jingoism.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you're exactly right. Looks like the second plane
was a war hoog an A ten went down in the.
Speaker 2: That's my favorite plane.
Speaker 3: It's about fair Child Republic. Uh. Anyway, the uh the
pilot was rescued out of the golf. Okay, Uh, let's
get through this before you get rid of me here. Okay, So,
last last war, just war only as a last resort,
only if it's waged by a legitimate authority and legitimate
What does legitimacy mean. Legitimacy in the classical understanding is
is one who represents his people. That's what legitimacy really means. Okay,
so uh so, legitimate authority a last resort, legitimate authority
redressing a wrong suffered has to have a reasonable chance
of success. The ultimate number five, The ultimate goal of
a just war is to re establish peace, not destroy
the enemy. To re establish peace, you only fight as
long as it takes to re establish peace. Because civilization
comes by order, an order comes by peace.
Speaker 2: And the only way that you can the only way
that you can re establish peace is through negotiation.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: And if if you're killing the negotiators, if you're targeting,
if you're targeting the leadership, if you take out the.
Speaker 2: I mean by.
Speaker 1: By if any way you look at it, it seems
like the Ayasola was sort of a wimpy guy, old
wimpy guy who was like, you know, had a fat
wag against the nuclear weapons, was like would actually say
some really cringey had some really cringey post on like
almost liberal kind of posts on Twitter. And you know this,
why would you if you go and kill that guy
and you kill you know, his family, well, the remaining family.
I mean, I don't know, I get this idea that
you know, if you you know, you kill my family, Yeah,
I'm probably I'm probably going to spend the rest of
my life trying to make trying to to repay.
Speaker 2: You for that.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And that's another thing about this war. This is why
I used the term jingoism. They went and attacked Iran,
and as soon as Iran started fighting back, that was
a bad thing. Mm hmm, Like, oh Iran's fighting back,
Why are they doing that? You had people saying that,
like you had like there were people.
Speaker 3: There they were supposed to just sit and take it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's another thing that just war that there
should be added to just war should be amended.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If you're using the excuse of a country six thousand
miles away that they did something to us five, you know,
fifty years ago, it's a way different excuse than Iran
being upset in nineteen seventy nine that you overthrew their
duly elected president you know earlier. That's something that's affecting them.
That's that's something that's affecting them continually on their homeland.
The Marines, the Marines getting killed in those barracks. As
horrible as that was, you don't get to come back
fifty years and go, yeah, we're going to start a
war and that's going to be one of these.
Speaker 3: We're going to wipe out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, it's
a great point, all right, So your ultimate goal has
to be to re establish peace. The violence used number six,
the violence in the war, The violence used in the
war must be proportional to the excuse me to the
injury suffered. I'm still wondering what the injury was that
we suffered, but I I I don't think total obliteration.
It wasn't total obliteration.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Allegedly the Iranians were trying to assassinate Trump.
Speaker 3: Well well yeah, well then then you know who would
have known is Joe Kent because he's in charge of
that intelligence, because he was the head of the National
counterte Terrorism Unit or you know center. Anyway, don't get
me started. I know the CIA and the FBI were
playing a playing a game with Trump. I do know
that from personal h once removed testimony from a friend
who visited with the president. So, but I won't get
into that. Uh So. And number seven, the weapons used
in war must discriminate between combatants and non combatants. Civilians
are never permissible targets of war. And every effort will
civilians die. Will there be occasional collateral damage, yes, but
every effort must be made, must be taken to avoid
killing civilians. We are which one of these seven principles
are we following? I mean, you can make the argument
of that Trump is a legitimate authority at least for
a short term. You can make that argument. I mean
away from our near abroad, I have I have I
have questions.
Speaker 1: Do you think Augustine do you think Augustine would see
legitimate authority as Christian authority?
Speaker 3: You know what, in the city in the city. Uh uh,
city of God. I almost said city of Man. That's strass,
very different. Uh uh, you know that's interesting. His understanding,
uh you know, he had a prophetic was something that
I absolutely think we need to recover, a prophetic understanding
of the role of the church with regards to informing
the state or the magistrate what good and evil is.
In other words, without the Church, can the is the
state even could it can even conceive have a conception
of what good and evil is? Could it act wisely?
And so so in that sense, I think that's kind
of where uh, Augustine's coming from on that. But that's
a really that's a really good question. There's probably experts
in in his thought that would uh, that would have better.
Speaker 1: You know that even if it doesn't have to be
a Christian, having Christian you know, advisors would be nice.
I think I think of female historically Christian I think
I think a female pastor doesn't doesn't doesn't live up
to that.
Speaker 2: She's a heretic so I mean, an insane person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's we we don't even have to get to
the propriety of a female pastorate. We don't even have
to get to that.
Speaker 2: For for her.
Speaker 3: No, that's insane. UH. And if and and if that's
his uh respute, and we're in real trouble, right. But
other than number two, I I don't see how we
are following any of this. It's not a lot. It
wasn't a last resort. UH. It's what's the wrong suffer
that we're redressing. There's no reasonable chance doesn't say there's
not a chance of success. There's a there's always a change,
you know, it's the US military. There's a chance. I
don't think it's a reasonable chance of success. Our ultimate goal, clearly,
by the very words of the President and the Secretary
of War. Uh, the goal isn't to re establish peace.
It's utter destruction. And it's and the violence isn't proportional
to any theoretical injury suffered. And the weapons that were using,
I mean we were dropping we've been dropping uh minds
in area in residential areas. Now. The primary target of
those minds was in was to limit the ability for
mobile launchers to be used. I get it, but it's
not cool putting minds in neighborhoods where you can turn
mom and kid and pets into red mist That's just
that's not okay. And and ultimately, like you said, I mean,
like we started with our partner in this deal, was
has been making a habit of assassinating our negotiating uh,
those across the table from us. So I'm I'm at
a real loss for this. And again, I am someone
who voted, has voted for our president three times. If
he was running against you know, if he was running
a fourth time and it was Newsome or Cortes or whoever,
you know, some leftist, I'd vote, I'd grip my teeth
and vote for him again. But this is but I
can say that and also be fully against this and
and and be fully against this and hope that we
don't have any of our boys die.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: And I know we got women over there too. That's
another topic for another day, but you know what I mean.
But look at all that, Look at the destruction we've had,
all these airframes lost, all these defensive platforms lost, that
the you know, it's just it's showing the asymmetric nature
of modern warfare. That it's very very very easy to
cheaply defend when your when your opponent is very extended,
you know, So all the aircraft carriers in the world.
Don't do you a ton of good if you can't
get any more than six hundred not you know, seven
hundred nutical miles from your target. Anyway, I go on
and on. I've beaten that dead horse. But I think
it's important that the historical background that we've gone over
to explain how did we get here? What are what
does our cultural foundations say about this? How does it
inform us? Can we get back to that or are
we just going to abandon it all and be functionally
you know again, I've got friends who are Jewish, but
are we going to be functionally modern Talmudic about this
which is Eastern not Western? Just like you said, Uh, Pete,
I've got a real problem with that. I I am
proudly uh you know, Western Christian. I think it's the
greatest civilization that has ever been on the face of
the earth. Greater than Rome, greater than Athens, uh, greater
than the dynasties in the East, uh, greater than Alexander's
great Empire. And and we're throwing our cultural heritage away,
and not just by importing the world, but by waging
war in this unserious, unwise, uh, immoral and Unchristian manner.
Speaker 1: The old thing about laying down with dog and getting CLEAs.
We've gotten the fleas, yeah, I mean we we've gotten
the Eastern we've gotten the Talmudic fleas that we just
oh we killed civilians. Oh they shouldn't have been there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna mow them. Hey, it's your job to
mow the lawn. Yeah, do you think you're have you
you've spoken about this whole idea of mowing the lawn
on your show.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, so people, yeah, okay, yeah, the yeah,
the whole thing is is it? And then it's like, well,
you don't hold if you're if you're okay with having
targeting civilians and I guess nine to eleven was fine.
Oh no, but they can't do it to us. Oh
so it's not a universal principle. It's just the you principle. Right,
It's like, come on, come on, stop it. Being be
a human, be an adult, you know, be be what
if you're claiming the West, if you're claiming to be Western,
act like it now, just don't stop it, stop it already.
This is this is a cluster, you know, and we
can't keep going.
Speaker 3: And it's Israel's only hope for a long term safety
is is being Western because it jumps in, it continues
down this path. Trust me, the next uh, let's say,
uh Cortes gets elected your next president, Lord, have mercy
on us. But you think she's gonna go along with this?
You think the modern Democrats are going to go along
with all this nonsense. The Israel's only hope for for
a long term health and existence is to get its
West on which it doesn't seem like it's ready to do.
And you know what, Yeah, I know we got to go.
We could talk you know, Net and Yahoo and that
whole like kud deal. They're not Yeah, okay, I'm gonna
say something. I don't want to get myself in trouble.
But let me just say this. That's an atheist Polish guy,
you know.
Speaker 1: And and well it's as Thomas. It's as Thomas says. Really,
if you believe the Bible, Jews don't exist anymore because
they don't have a temple to sacrifice and they have
they have no way to propitiate their sins.
Speaker 3: That's right. Well, I mean Thomas is a is reform
like I am. So I mean he understands that that propitiation, expiation.
But yeah, it's a I have no problem, and I
really don't have. I have no problem with the faithful,
serious uh Jew who is a spiritual, truly trying to
follow all those inconsistencies that you, me and Thomas would
would say exist regardless. If if it's if it's a
group of peaceful people trying to follow their faith in
and amongst themselves in the nineteen sixty seven borders or
the nineteen forty eight borders or whatever, then I'm okay
with that. I don't But that's not what's going on now.
You have materialists, socialists who are honestly in mimetic in
a Girardi and fervor, following down this mimetic path of
those who they have rightly or you know, rightly demonized.
But they're becoming like that which they've demonized forever. And
it's it's gerard top to bottom. It's sad. But what
they're doing is they're squeezing out the ability for the peaceful,
spiritual And I'm not talking about the Kabbad or any
of that's uff. I'm talking about just the faithful, normal
Jewish guy to to have a homeland and follow out
his faith. They're making it impossible for that guy, and
that's sad. That's sad. I think Islam is silly too,
but I understand that a lot of people believe in
it and they want to have places where they can
peacefully worship their understanding of Allah. I got no problem
with that. But but just like just like uh uh,
you know, the the Wahabbies made it pretty difficult for
those guys. This, this ruling class of Israelis is making
it pretty hard for that peaceful uh Jew right now.
And that's that's sad. And so I just pray that
that some sanity can be brought to uh uh, to Israel,
or we just say wash our hands of them. But
it doesn't look like that's going to happen under Trump
for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: So people tell people where they can find your work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, The American Mind published by Clermont Institute, and I
love those guys. They do great work at Responsible state Craft,
which is a publication of the Quincy Institute, uh uh,
and American Reformer. At my substack Ron the Eyes of Apilles,
Ron Dotson dots.
Speaker 1: That was a really good substock this morning. Well, I
mean it's a It's a very important subject to think
that even if you're preparing, even if you're doing everything
that you possibly can to prepare for an eventual downfall
or catastrophe or change, that you can do everything that
you you think you've done correctly and still not be
the ones that come up come out on top.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's that's right. That that volatility, volatility has
greater cost to those on the margin, and and always
declares the most adaptable the winner. And that neither one
of those things looks very good for the US right now.
So those are my big takeaways. Now, you don't have
to read my substock. Go read my substock anyway.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And then I'm short.
Speaker 2: It's shockingly short for run.
Speaker 3: Thank thank you, Pete. Imagine. Yeah, I've never been. Uh,
I've never been. Uh. I'm quite loquacious. I will I
will fully own that, all right, I bet.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: You've been always a pleasure to be with you. Support
Pete subscribe
Speaker 2: Thanks Matt, see ya