1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,919
Speaker 1: Okay, so imagine this. You find like a hidden door

2
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,519
in your airbnb and it leads you to like a

3
00:00:07,639 --> 00:00:11,839
huge abandoned shopping mall. Kind of spooky, right, but also

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,679
like kind of cool. And that's like the weird thing

5
00:00:14,679 --> 00:00:17,480
about liminal spaces, and that's exactly what we're going to

6
00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:19,039
be looking at today in this deep dive.

7
00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really interesting how these spaces, like both

8
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,239
like physical spaces and psychological spaces, can like make you

9
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,640
feel so many different things all at once.

10
00:00:28,839 --> 00:00:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, we've got a bunch of different sources

11
00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:36,359
today talking about all kinds stuff like deserted malls, weird tiktoks,

12
00:00:36,759 --> 00:00:40,320
even like some creepy internet horror stories. Already get in

13
00:00:40,359 --> 00:00:43,719
the chills just thinking about it. But maybe before we

14
00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:45,520
get too spooked, we just like start with the basics.

15
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,600
What exactly is a liminal space?

16
00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:49,799
Speaker 2: Well, a liminal space can be a thought of as

17
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,159
like a threshold, a place of transition, or like an

18
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,960
in between state. And it's where like what's familiar suddenly

19
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,799
becomes unfamiliar and like the rules that we're used to

20
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,000
don't seem to apply anymore. Thing about like an empty

21
00:01:00,039 --> 00:01:02,159
air per terminal late at night, or like a school

22
00:01:02,159 --> 00:01:03,759
hallway after all the kids have gone home.

23
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,439
Speaker 1: It's funny you should mention airports. I always found those

24
00:01:06,439 --> 00:01:11,280
moving walkways, especially when they're empty, to be like weirdly unsettling.

25
00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:14,359
You're going somewhere, but it's also like you're just stuck

26
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:15,879
in this weird state of motion.

27
00:01:16,239 --> 00:01:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great example. It's that feeling of being

28
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,879
neither here nor there, of being caught in like a

29
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,319
moment of transition, and that can be like a trigger

30
00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:25,920
for that something's not quite right kind of feeling.

31
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So our first source actually jumps right

32
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,920
into this feeling mm hmm with a story about a

33
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,879
woman who finds a hidden, abandoned mall through a door

34
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,159
in her airbnb. I mean, talk about an unexpected vacation.

35
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, here exactly. And what I find really fascinating about

36
00:01:43,519 --> 00:01:47,040
that story it's not just like the discovery itself, yeah,

37
00:01:47,079 --> 00:01:50,159
but the woman's reaction. She describes it as this overwhelming

38
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,000
sense of excitement, like she's stumbled upon like a secret world,

39
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,040
but at the same time she's totally creeped out. She

40
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,719
keeps saying how the silence is like deafening, and how

41
00:01:57,719 --> 00:01:59,439
she felt like she was being watched, even though she

42
00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:00,920
knew she completely alone.

43
00:02:01,079 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 1: It's like that primal part of our brain is like

44
00:02:03,799 --> 00:02:04,920
screaming at us danger.

45
00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 2: This is not where you're supposed to be, even if

46
00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:11,479
like logically we know there's no real threat exactly.

47
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,400
Speaker 1: And that's where the concept of cognitive dissonance comes in.

48
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,159
We're looking at a space that we recognize, like it's

49
00:02:17,159 --> 00:02:21,000
a shopping mall, yeah, but it's totally empty without any

50
00:02:21,039 --> 00:02:24,000
of the context that we're expecting. It's this conflict between

51
00:02:24,039 --> 00:02:27,240
what we expect and what we actually see that leads

52
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:28,479
to that uneasy feeling.

53
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,599
Speaker 2: Right, And I think that dissonance is even stronger when

54
00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:33,960
we're talking about places that are usually super busy, like

55
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,840
imagine walking through Times Square in New York City, but

56
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,240
it's completely deserted. It's like a snapshot of a world

57
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,680
that just stopped working totally.

58
00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:43,439
Speaker 1: And it's that sense of disruption, that break from what

59
00:02:43,479 --> 00:02:46,599
we expect that makes these spaces so compelling and let's

60
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,039
be honest, a little bit scary. But it's not just

61
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,680
abandoned places that can make you feel that way. Another

62
00:02:51,719 --> 00:02:55,680
source looks at this TikToker Javier, who claims that he's

63
00:02:55,719 --> 00:02:59,319
posting from the year twenty twenty seven, where he's seemingly

64
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,680
the last man on earth. Oh yeah, Javier. His videos

65
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,560
are wild, empty Spanish cities, perfect beaches with no one around.

66
00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:09,639
He even like walks through these fancy hotels like he

67
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,919
owns the place. It's like something right out of a

68
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,199
post apocalyptic movie, but without the whole mad Max thing.

69
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. His story, whether it's true or not, really plays

70
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,240
into our fascination with being alone and with the unknown.

71
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,319
There's something really alluring about a world without rules, where

72
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,960
you can go wherever you want without any consequences. It's

73
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,759
like a blank canvas for your imagination.

74
00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it also connects to our anxieties

75
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,360
about the future, climate change, pandemics, political unrest. It's not

76
00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:42,319
hard to imagine a scenario where like society collapses and

77
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,039
we're left with these eerie reminders of what used to be.

78
00:03:45,439 --> 00:03:48,000
Speaker 2: It's a pretty bleak thought. But even if Javier is

79
00:03:48,039 --> 00:03:50,879
just messing with us, it raises some interesting questions about

80
00:03:50,919 --> 00:03:52,719
why these kinds of stories are so popular. What is

81
00:03:52,759 --> 00:03:55,439
it about being alone, about being the last person on

82
00:03:55,439 --> 00:03:57,360
earth that captures our imagination.

83
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,759
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a desire to escape or like wanting a

84
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,319
simpler life without so much chaos. Or maybe it's something darker,

85
00:04:04,879 --> 00:04:08,199
like a morbid curiosity about what happens after everything falls apart.

86
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,479
I'm not sure. It definitely makes you think.

87
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And speaking of things that make you think,

88
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,600
let's talk about something that takes this feeling of unease

89
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,199
to a whole new level. The back Rooms.

90
00:04:19,439 --> 00:04:21,639
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, this one's definitely creeping me out. For those

91
00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:24,360
of you who haven't gone deep into internet horror, can

92
00:04:24,439 --> 00:04:26,240
you give us a quick overview of what the Backrooms

93
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:26,680
is all about?

94
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 2: Basically, the back Rooms started as an Internet urban legend,

95
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,279
this creepy story that's spread like wildfire online. The idea

96
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,079
is that you can accidentally no clip out of reality,

97
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,240
like you glitch through the fabric of existence and end

98
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:41,720
up trapped in the back rooms.

99
00:04:41,879 --> 00:04:43,319
Speaker 1: And what exactly are the back rooms?

100
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 2: Imagine like an endless maze of empty office spaces, dingy

101
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,560
yellow wallpaper, buzzing fluorescent lights, damp carpets that go on forever.

102
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,199
It's a totally mundane place, but also super unsettling. You're

103
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,839
completely alone, but there's this constant feeling of being watched,

104
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,720
like something's lurky, just out of sight.

105
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,399
Speaker 1: So it's like they took the most boring, soul crushing

106
00:05:04,519 --> 00:05:08,199
environment possible and turned it into a nightmare. No wonder

107
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,839
it's become so popular in like creepy pastas and online horror.

108
00:05:12,959 --> 00:05:16,680
Speaker 2: And what's especially interesting is that the back rooms, unlike

109
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,040
abandoned malls or deserted cities, isn't based on any real place.

110
00:05:20,079 --> 00:05:22,560
It's totally made up, but it taps into a very

111
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,279
real and universal fear, the fear of being lost, trapped,

112
00:05:26,319 --> 00:05:28,680
and forgotten. And it's not even just like the fear

113
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,399
of being like physically trapped. The backrooms can be seen

114
00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:33,959
as like a metaphor too, for that feeling of being stuck,

115
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,480
you know, like in a dead end job or life

116
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,519
that just feels empty. It's that fear of just doing

117
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,680
the same thing over and over, of being trapped in

118
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,240
a cycle you can't break free from.

119
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,519
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you say that, I've always been

120
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,680
drawn to stories about people who find themselves in these

121
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,639
crazy situations, like what would I do if I woke

122
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,560
up and everyone's gone, or if I like walk through

123
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:54,800
a portal to another dimension.

124
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,480
Speaker 2: I think that shows just how much humans crave like

125
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,560
novelty and adventure. We want those experiences that shit things up,

126
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,160
that challenge how we see the world.

127
00:06:02,399 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 1: It's like we're programmed to seek out the unknown, even

128
00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:07,720
if it scares us a little bit. But I'm also

129
00:06:07,759 --> 00:06:10,160
curious about, like the flip side of that. Why are

130
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,240
we so drawn to these like creepy and unsettling depictions

131
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,279
of liminal spaces. What is it about abandoned malls and

132
00:06:17,319 --> 00:06:23,079
deserted cities and these endless office nightmares that captures our imaginations.

133
00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:26,160
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a way for us to face our fears. Yeah,

134
00:06:26,399 --> 00:06:29,920
but in a safe way, you know. By like exploring

135
00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:33,120
these spaces through stories, images, and videos, we can kind

136
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,680
of experience the thrill of the unknown without actually putting

137
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:37,600
ourselves in danger.

138
00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:39,480
Speaker 1: Right, It's like watching a horror movie. You get the

139
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,759
adrenaline rush without having to actually face a monster exactly.

140
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,040
Speaker 2: And I think there's also something cathartic about it. By

141
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,439
immersing ourselves in these unsettling stories, we can work through

142
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,680
our own anxieties about being alone, about loss, about how

143
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,879
fragile life really is.

144
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,879
Speaker 1: It's like those stories give us a safe way to

145
00:06:54,959 --> 00:06:59,680
explore the darker parts of being human without having to

146
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,639
actually deal with them in our own lives.

147
00:07:01,879 --> 00:07:03,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. But it's

148
00:07:03,639 --> 00:07:07,079
not all about fear and anxiety. Liminal spaces can also

149
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,720
make you feel a sense of wonder and possibility. Think

150
00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:12,600
about like standing on top of a mountain and looking

151
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,759
out at a huge landscape that goes on forever, or

152
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,319
the amazing silence of a night sky full of stars.

153
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,519
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, those are great examples. It's like those spaces

154
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,759
remind us just how big the universe is and how

155
00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:28,399
small we are in comparison. It's humbling and exhilarating all

156
00:07:28,439 --> 00:07:29,160
at the same.

157
00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:32,639
Speaker 2: Time, exactly. Liminal spaces can make us see things differently,

158
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,720
challenge our ideas, and remind us that there's always more

159
00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:37,680
to discover and learn and experience.

160
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 1: And speaking of learning, we mentioned earlier that the term

161
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,720
liminal space is actually coined way back in nineteen oh

162
00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:46,920
eight by this anthropologist Arnold van Gennep in his book

163
00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:48,279
Writes a Passage That's Right.

164
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,079
Speaker 2: His work focused on the rituals and ceremonies that societies

165
00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:53,959
use to mark transitions from one stage of life to another,

166
00:07:54,399 --> 00:07:57,319
like coming of age rituals, weddings, funerals. These are all

167
00:07:57,399 --> 00:08:00,000
liminal experiences that have been a part of human culture

168
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,079
or for centuries.

169
00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 1: So this isn't just some new Internet trend. It's something

170
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:05,959
that humans have been dealing with for as long as

171
00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:07,160
we've been around, exactly.

172
00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:08,959
Speaker 2: And I think that's why these ideas are still so

173
00:08:09,079 --> 00:08:13,560
relevant today, Even in our super connected, technologically advanced world.

174
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,399
We're still searching for meaning, for connection, for a sense

175
00:08:17,399 --> 00:08:20,920
of belonging in a world that can feel really chaotic

176
00:08:20,959 --> 00:08:21,720
and overwhelming.

177
00:08:21,879 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 1: And maybe these liminal spaces, whether there are actual places

178
00:08:26,439 --> 00:08:28,800
or just states of mind, give us a glimpse of

179
00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:32,759
something beyond the every day, something that reminds us of

180
00:08:32,759 --> 00:08:34,639
the mystery and wonder that's still out there.

181
00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:36,919
Speaker 2: You know, when you were talking about those rates of passage,

182
00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,759
it made me think about my own experience spending abroad

183
00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:40,320
in college.

184
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,200
Speaker 1: Oh really, I'd love to hear about it.

185
00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:44,480
Speaker 2: Well. I was living in this tiny village in Japan,

186
00:08:45,039 --> 00:08:48,000
completely immersed in a culture that was so different from

187
00:08:48,039 --> 00:08:51,519
anything I knew. I remember feeling so lost at first,

188
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,919
like I was in a dream. The language, the customs,

189
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,399
even the food, it was all so unfamiliar.

190
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,159
Speaker 1: It sounds like you were in a liminal space in

191
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,200
every sense of the world.

192
00:09:00,399 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 2: I totally was, but looking back, it was one of

193
00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:07,000
the most transformative experiences of my life. I had to

194
00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:10,440
confront my own assumptions, adapt to new ways of thinking

195
00:09:10,519 --> 00:09:14,159
and being, and connect with people on a much deeper level.

196
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,279
Speaker 1: And in that way, your experience is kind of like

197
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,320
those ancient rites of passage. You're stepping outside your comfort zone, yeah,

198
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,360
crossing a threshold into a new world, and coming out

199
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,919
the other side changed in a fundamental way.

200
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,039
Speaker 2: It's amazing how those experiences, the ones that really challenge us,

201
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,360
are often the ones we end up cherishing the most.

202
00:09:32,519 --> 00:09:34,840
Speaker 1: It's like, we need those moments of being lost and

203
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,639
confuse to really appreciate what we have to gain a

204
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,960
new perspective on our lives and our place in the world.

205
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,480
Speaker 2: And I think that's a really important lesson, especially in

206
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,120
a world that's always pushing us to stay connected, to

207
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,879
be productive, to never slow down. Maybe we need to

208
00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:51,320
make time for those liminal moments, those pauses in our

209
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,639
everyday lives, to let ourselves get a little lost, to

210
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,200
wander off the beaten path and see where we end up.

211
00:09:57,399 --> 00:09:59,759
Speaker 1: All of that, it's like giving ourselves permission to explore,

212
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,279
to be curious to embrace the unknown. But before we

213
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,080
get too carried away with our own philosophical thoughts, let's

214
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,039
bring it back to our listeners. Yes, idea, we've talked

215
00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:12,000
about a lot of different aspects of liminal spaces today,

216
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:18,840
from abandoned malls and creepy tiktoks to ancient rituals and

217
00:10:18,919 --> 00:10:22,399
the psychology of fear. What does all this mean for us,

218
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,399
the people navigating our own liminal spaces in the real world. Yeah,

219
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,240
so we've been like all over the place with these

220
00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:33,799
liminal spaces, from creepy abandoned places to like these deep

221
00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:37,279
philosophical ideas. But how does all this apply to like

222
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:38,440
our everyday lives.

223
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing is to remember that

224
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,000
liminality isn't just about like spooky buildings or internet stories.

225
00:10:45,039 --> 00:10:47,720
It's a really basic part of being human. We're always

226
00:10:47,759 --> 00:10:51,000
in transition, you know, moving between different stages of life,

227
00:10:51,039 --> 00:10:52,679
different roles, different identities.

228
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,639
Speaker 1: It's like we're constantly no clipping through different versions of ourselves.

229
00:10:55,639 --> 00:10:57,960
Maybe that's why those backgroom stories are so popular. They

230
00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,919
kind of tap into that fear we all have about

231
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,559
who we are and where we belong.

232
00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:04,879
Speaker 2: That's a really interesting connection. And if we can accept

233
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,960
that liminality is just part of life, then maybe we

234
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,480
can start to see those in between times not as

235
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,960
something to be scared of, but as chances for growth

236
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:14,639
and change.

237
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,159
Speaker 1: So instead of like dreading those times when things are uncertain,

238
00:11:18,759 --> 00:11:20,159
we should just embrace them.

239
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,799
Speaker 2: Exactly. Think about it. When we're in a liminal space,

240
00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,000
the old rules don't work anymore and the new ones

241
00:11:27,039 --> 00:11:29,639
haven't really formed yet. It's a time when we can

242
00:11:29,799 --> 00:11:33,639
question things, try out new ways of being, and discover

243
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,559
things about ourselves we didn't even know we're there.

244
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you're traveling in a foreign

245
00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:39,679
country and you have to step outside your comfort zone.

246
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,279
You have to figure out new places, communicate in a

247
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,159
different language, yeah, and adapt to new customs.

248
00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:48,559
Speaker 2: Right, And in that process you often find out that

249
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,919
you're much stronger and more resourceful than you ever thought

250
00:11:51,919 --> 00:11:52,240
you were.

251
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 1: I remember when I first moved to a big city

252
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,840
after college. I was so overwhelmed by everything, the pace

253
00:11:57,879 --> 00:12:01,320
of life, the crowds, the constant noise. But I also

254
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,080
felt this amazing sense of energy, like anything was possible.

255
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,759
Speaker 2: That feeling of possibility is like a trademark of liminal spaces.

256
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,720
It's a time when we're open to new experiences, new connections,

257
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,399
new ways of seeing the world.

258
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 1: And it's not just about personal growth either. Liminal spaces

259
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,120
can also have a huge impact on society as a whole.

260
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,679
Speaker 2: Definitely think about those big moments in history, revolutions, social movements,

261
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,200
major shifts in thinking. Those are all examples of collective

262
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,480
liminal experiences where old systems break down and new ones

263
00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:34,240
take their place.

264
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 1: It's like society itself is no clipping into a new reality,

265
00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:43,039
and those transitions are rarely smooth or easy. There's often conflict, uncertainty,

266
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,600
even chaos, But it's from.

267
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 2: That chaos that real innovation and progress can happen.

268
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,919
Speaker 1: So how do we deal with these collective liminal spaces,

269
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,720
especially in a world that feels so divided and uncertain

270
00:12:54,799 --> 00:12:55,200
right now?

271
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,759
Speaker 2: I think it starts with empathy and trying to understand

272
00:12:57,759 --> 00:12:59,759
each other. We need to be open to hearing different

273
00:12:59,759 --> 00:13:02,960
points to view, to challenge our own biases, and to

274
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,679
find common ground even when it seems impossible.

275
00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:08,679
Speaker 1: It's about recognizing that we're all in this together, even

276
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,240
if we're on different paths and going through different transitions.

277
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,120
Speaker 2: And maybe, just maybe if we embrace those liminal moments,

278
00:13:17,039 --> 00:13:20,279
those times of uncertainty and discomfort, we can create a

279
00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:23,399
world that's more fair, more equal, and more compassionate.

280
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,559
Speaker 1: That's a really powerful thought. So as we wrap up

281
00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,200
our deep dive into the world of liminal spaces, what's

282
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,080
like the one big thing you want our listeners to

283
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:30,759
take away from this?

284
00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 2: I think it's this, don't be afraid of the in between,

285
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:39,039
embrace those times of uncertainty and change, because it's in

286
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,919
those liminal spaces, those moments of transition, that we really

287
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,799
discover who we are and what we're capable of becoming.

288
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,080
Speaker 1: I love that. And on that note, Yeah, we've come

289
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,840
to the end of our exploration. I hope you enjoyed

290
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,519
this journey into this strange, unsettling, and ultimately transformative world

291
00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,519
of liminal spaces. Until next time, keep exploring, keep asking questions,

292
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,320
and keep embracing the miss three