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<v Speaker 1>Bill Cunningham, the Great American. Of course, Ohio winds are

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<v Speaker 1>very concerned about payments to the Browns and the Bengals.

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<v Speaker 1>We're concerned about real estate tax relief. And this isn't

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<v Speaker 1>just about old folks, It's about young Americans. I've had

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<v Speaker 1>many thirty, thirty, five, forty years old saying their taxes

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<v Speaker 1>are skyrocketing. And the little town of Madeira, which is

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<v Speaker 1>close to where I broadcast from. If you've got a

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<v Speaker 1>five hundred thousand dollars house, you pay about twelve thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>thirteen thousand a year and property taxes. If it's a

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<v Speaker 1>million dollar house, you pay twenty thousand dollars a year.

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<v Speaker 1>Bothering Madeira is excellent schools that are extremely expensive. But

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<v Speaker 1>there are some in Columbus trying to instead a curse

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<v Speaker 1>in the darkness lighting a candle. And one of the

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<v Speaker 1>House Republicans in charge, of course, is Dave Thomas of

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<v Speaker 1>the Richfield, Ohio area. He's got a I'm sorry, he's

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<v Speaker 1>in the Jefferson area of the state of Ohio, and

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<v Speaker 1>he's got a bill that would be landmarked ledge if adopted,

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<v Speaker 1>that would deliver three point five billion dollars in property

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<v Speaker 1>tax relief to Ohio wins across the state. Nothing's been

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<v Speaker 1>touched for about fifty years. And David Thomas, State Rep.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bill Cunningham Show. And first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>tell me what your bill would do, if anything, about

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<v Speaker 1>the skyrocketing real estate taxes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, thank you so much for having me on. I

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<v Speaker 2>was a former county auditor in Nashavilla County, did that

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<v Speaker 2>for six years. Why I ran Firstate representative was our

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<v Speaker 2>property tax system. You just said it right there. It's

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<v Speaker 2>way out of whack. The system is broken. We've been

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<v Speaker 2>introducing a lot of bills working through some pretty shrunk policy.

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<v Speaker 2>What the House is now proposed as our kind of

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<v Speaker 2>overarching project is House Bill three thirty five. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>property tax release. Now at big components, The big kind

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<v Speaker 2>of overarching aspects of it though, are to, like you said,

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<v Speaker 2>give three point five billion dollars worth of direct property

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<v Speaker 2>tax decreases to everyone across the state in January of

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<v Speaker 2>next year right away, and then we're looking at essentially

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<v Speaker 2>we're moving the idea. One of the big problems for

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<v Speaker 2>property taxes. We all know it's a capital gains unrealized

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<v Speaker 2>capital gains tax, and we need to remove the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of when your value increases, then your property tax increases

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<v Speaker 2>by that same amount are almost close. We do that

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<v Speaker 2>by limiting down how much schools are getting from property

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<v Speaker 2>taxes moving forward, limiting that twenty mili floor that you

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<v Speaker 2>made relation, and removing something called inside millage. And what

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<v Speaker 2>this is. Inside millage is a portion of your tax

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<v Speaker 2>bill that we've never voted on. It's kind of the

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<v Speaker 2>base level on your tax bill. That ten mills or

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<v Speaker 2>one percent of your property value is your tax rate.

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<v Speaker 2>It's applied to your property every year, and when your

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<v Speaker 2>value goes up, your tax bill goes up right along

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<v Speaker 2>with it. And I know folks in your listening area

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<v Speaker 2>have had their property taxes skyrocket. Yes, my home area

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<v Speaker 2>as well. Yes, And this is a big part of

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<v Speaker 2>that reason. Because your tax rates aren't decreasing like when

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<v Speaker 2>you vote for a levee. Instead, your tax rates stay

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<v Speaker 2>the same. Your value goes up, and we need to

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<v Speaker 2>essentially eliminate that idea and give the voters the full

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<v Speaker 2>authority to be able to say, I want my property

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<v Speaker 2>taxes to go up, I want those services or I

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<v Speaker 2>want things to say the same, and I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>those services. That's a huge component of the spill, and

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<v Speaker 2>moving forward, it will do wonders for homeowners across Ohio

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<v Speaker 2>who are worried right now. They see their market value

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<v Speaker 2>increasing and they're worried about how much more than you're

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<v Speaker 2>saying on the property taxes.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, if you give an Ohioan the opportunity to

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<v Speaker 1>eliminate or occurtail by direct vote property taxes, it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. Now you may be aware of this is

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<v Speaker 1>working through the system right now here. We are approaching

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of June. But in November we may be

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<v Speaker 1>voting to eliminate or curtail property taxes. And so might

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<v Speaker 1>your bill be a dollar I think it's going to pass.

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<v Speaker 1>I think sixty percent of us are going to say

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<v Speaker 1>we can't take it anymore. But the problem is what

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<v Speaker 1>are you substitute it with? Is it sales taxes? An

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<v Speaker 1>income tax? And Republicans in Columbus want to have a

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<v Speaker 1>flat tax I think at two point seven percent of

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<v Speaker 1>state income tax? And so what impact does the vote

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<v Speaker 1>to reject property taxes in Toto have on your bill

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<v Speaker 1>which wouldn't take effect until January.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so the bill would take effect this year with

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<v Speaker 2>one last component, which is the Budget Commission. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>group at the county level of three elected individuals who

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<v Speaker 2>actually right now have no real authority. We're giving them

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<v Speaker 2>the full authority to decrease tax rates, to freeze RIP

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<v Speaker 2>is coming in to review budgets. That'll start right away.

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<v Speaker 2>But the actual three point five billion dollars of the

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<v Speaker 2>inside millage being cut to all property owners, you're right,

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<v Speaker 2>that starts in January. We are late. I just started

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<v Speaker 2>in January of this year, and I joke with folks,

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<v Speaker 2>I've had five months to make up for five years

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<v Speaker 2>of frankly, the state not doing a lot right in

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<v Speaker 2>this in this realm. So I feel for the taxpayers.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why I ran I work. Actually talked quite a

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<v Speaker 2>bit with the folks who are pushing the Constitutional Amendment.

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<v Speaker 2>I've told them, you know, you guys do your thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll keep trying to reform, make strong changes to the legislature,

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<v Speaker 2>and if we kind of do this in tandem, you

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<v Speaker 2>know something's going to have to happen for our taxpayers

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<v Speaker 2>one way or the other.

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<v Speaker 1>What happens on the constitutional Amendment, which means if that passes,

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<v Speaker 1>much like the abortion thing was constitutional amendment, much like

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<v Speaker 1>the marijuana thing was. It was not a constitutional amendment.

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<v Speaker 1>It was an ordinance, so to speak. But constitutional amendment passes.

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<v Speaker 1>What happens if the people of Ohio get a free

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<v Speaker 1>shot eliminating largely property taxes. Can you tell the American

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<v Speaker 1>people what will we vote on assuming you get enough signatures,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera, which I think they will. Well, what are

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<v Speaker 1>we voting on a November about real estate taxes?

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<v Speaker 2>So it could be on November ballot or I think

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<v Speaker 2>it will probably be on the May ballot of next year.

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<v Speaker 2>They have to get about six hundred thousand signatures and

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<v Speaker 2>now less than about three weeks, so they're doing a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>They're really good grassroots folks. But I envisioned probably next May,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever it's on the ballot, Ohioans will be voting on.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a very simple amendment that just says, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we're keealing or abolishing all real property taxes. Oh oh, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, what happens to wait a minute, that's a great idea,

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<v Speaker 1>you know in the spiritual world, that's great. Eliminate all

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<v Speaker 1>real estate property taxes. Let's say we vote on that.

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<v Speaker 1>How does schools and government fund itself?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Property tax is the biggest tax in the state

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<v Speaker 2>of Ohio, and pay the most tax through their property tax,

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<v Speaker 2>which is probably the problem, and that's what we're working

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<v Speaker 2>on the lead stage right now. It's twenty two billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars and all of that money, that twenty two billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars stays the local level. The state doesn't get any

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<v Speaker 2>of it. So that's twenty two billions at that word

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<v Speaker 2>to go away. Those are your commercial properties paying that,

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<v Speaker 2>your public utilities paying it, and your individuals. If that

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<v Speaker 2>goes away, You're exactly right. We still have to fund

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<v Speaker 2>our police, our fire, schools, roads, all those things. We

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<v Speaker 2>would My assumption is, I don't want to speak for

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<v Speaker 2>the future, but local governments already have the ability to

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<v Speaker 2>use other revenue sources besides property. They're just so tied

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<v Speaker 2>to the idea that we've got to use property tax

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<v Speaker 2>to fund our services. We can't use other means. But

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<v Speaker 2>our counties actually have sales tax, right and our villages,

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<v Speaker 2>our cities, and our schools actually have the income tax.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're already asking them. You've got to shift over

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<v Speaker 2>or decrease your spending. Pre tax side is way too overburdened.

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<v Speaker 2>But if all the property goes away, will likely just

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<v Speaker 2>allow them to have whatever income tax, whatever sales tax

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<v Speaker 2>the voters will approve, and that will be how we

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<v Speaker 2>fund our services. It would be on average about a

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<v Speaker 2>three times either three times the sales tax you're currently

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<v Speaker 2>paying or three times the income tax are currently paying

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<v Speaker 2>for all those services. That's just how big property taxes are.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's get practical. Let's say the city of Maderra,

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<v Speaker 1>the city of Deer Park. Let's talk about the village

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<v Speaker 1>of Indian Hill around our area, Sycamore. You're a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit north of there, and it's very expensive to send

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<v Speaker 1>your kid to Maderra, Indian Hill, Marymont Schools, Mason very

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<v Speaker 1>expensive to go there, and the real estate taxes funds

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<v Speaker 1>most of what the schools do. And so you're saying,

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<v Speaker 1>if we vote in November or May to eliminate completely

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<v Speaker 1>the real estate taxes, the burden will be on the

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<v Speaker 1>city of Mason or the city of Maderra, the city

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<v Speaker 1>a Dare Park, of the village of Indian Hill to

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<v Speaker 1>enact some sort of a tax, likely an income tax,

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<v Speaker 1>to raise the money to equal what was raised through

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<v Speaker 1>the real estate tax. Is that correct?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? Yeah, those cities which they can already do now

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<v Speaker 2>they can, those cities would increase their income tax to

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<v Speaker 2>make up for the property tax, and then the school

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<v Speaker 2>which they can actually do now too, would increase their

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<v Speaker 2>income tax to make up for the loss of the

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<v Speaker 2>property tax.

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<v Speaker 1>Side, what if you're in a what if you're in

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<v Speaker 1>a unincorporated township. Let's say I live in Sycamore Township.

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<v Speaker 1>Sycamore Township, by law, cannot have an income tax. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>how would the townships fund schools?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, townships would be a unique area because what a

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<v Speaker 2>township makes and is is an area that only has

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<v Speaker 2>property tax. That's why in our big reform bill we

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<v Speaker 2>still allow them to have this inside village. But if

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<v Speaker 2>all property tax were to go away, townships would essentially

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<v Speaker 2>have no funding for their services that they're giving. My

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<v Speaker 2>best guess is the townships would likely be funded through

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<v Speaker 2>the counties with a sales tax shared fund.

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<v Speaker 1>So that means that Hamley County commissioners would have to

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<v Speaker 1>raise you'd give this from the state. You would give

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<v Speaker 1>the authority of Hamlety County commissioners maybe to raise the

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<v Speaker 1>sales tax by an extra point or something. With the

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<v Speaker 1>understanding that would fund the schools and other police services

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<v Speaker 1>in the townships. Is that correct?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you probably have to raise it a lot more

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<v Speaker 2>than one point. Yeah. My guess is it probably would

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<v Speaker 2>be anywhere. I don't know your finances, but probably between

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<v Speaker 2>five and ten percent would be my assumption.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean so right right now in Hamley County, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's about seven percent. And so if the real

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<v Speaker 1>estate tax went away, would the tax sales tax in

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<v Speaker 1>Hamiley County be like twelve percent?

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<v Speaker 2>No? No, you you would probably be around seventeen to

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<v Speaker 2>twenty percent. Say that again, because you would likely be

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<v Speaker 2>around seventeen to twenty percent.

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<v Speaker 1>Of sales tax.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Why man, let me get this straight. So if this passes,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you give the voters an opportunity to vote

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<v Speaker 1>this real estate, it's going to pass. So he's saying,

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<v Speaker 1>if that, if that passes and no money comes in

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<v Speaker 1>real estate taxes in state of Ohio practical example, Hamilton

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<v Speaker 1>County commissioners or tend to be liberal Democrats, unlike Warren

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<v Speaker 1>County that tends to be conservative Republicans or Claremont County

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<v Speaker 1>Butler County Conservative republic So you're saying, in order to

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<v Speaker 1>equal the amount of money in that county, raised from

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<v Speaker 1>the elimination of the property of real estate taxes, that

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<v Speaker 1>the sales tax would have to be around seventeen to

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<v Speaker 1>twenty percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not not seeing your exact financials, but knowing kind

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<v Speaker 2>of you know how much it takes on average to replace,

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<v Speaker 2>and knowing frankly that you all, like my area in

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<v Speaker 2>Ashibula are a border county, and so you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>lose revenue from people leaving the state to go buy

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<v Speaker 2>things in West Virginia or Kentucky are different places like that. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna have to have that high. In addition, one

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<v Speaker 2>of the kind of aspects to property tax is that

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<v Speaker 2>public utilities pay property tax, commercial buildings pay property tax.

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<v Speaker 2>If we were to completely eliminate commercial and public utility

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<v Speaker 2>property tax along with residential, well now it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be the individuals paying that portion. If the county commissioners,

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<v Speaker 2>as you said, are wanting to make up that total

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<v Speaker 2>revenue dollar for dollar, wow, much higher. So we're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to reflect from the system and make it much more

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<v Speaker 2>responsive to the taxpayers because there's always unintended consequences. But

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<v Speaker 2>I feel for our homeowners and our taxpayers, they're tapped out. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's an extreme situation right now.

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<v Speaker 1>You know I shouldn't, I shouldn't use his name, but

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<v Speaker 1>I will. Rocky Boyman, my running mate. Here as a

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<v Speaker 1>spread of ponderosa in western Hamlin County and east complaining

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<v Speaker 1>as many I complain about real estate taxes. And you

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<v Speaker 1>give the average person an opportunity to eliminate the real

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<v Speaker 1>estate tax, they're going to do it. Now you use

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<v Speaker 1>the term unintended consequences. But if that happens and it's

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<v Speaker 1>voted down and we don't have any more real estate

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<v Speaker 1>taxes quickly that Hamiony County commissioners are going to have

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<v Speaker 1>to raise the sales tax, which is called going to

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<v Speaker 1>call us a bleeding of Hamilton County residents. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you're north to here, but I can look high in

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<v Speaker 1>the building and I can see Kenton County. I can

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<v Speaker 1>see Campbell County. I can see Boone County, Kentucky. I

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<v Speaker 1>can see Lawrenceburg, which are great communities to live in.

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<v Speaker 1>I would think there'd be an outflow from Hamlety County

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<v Speaker 1>to the surrounding counties. Maybe that wouldn't happen where you are,

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<v Speaker 1>but in Columbus it probably would. But in Cincinnati we

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<v Speaker 1>would leave.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, that's one potential. That's a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a problem.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a problem, and that's why tackling our tax system

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<v Speaker 2>has to be It's the number one thing that people

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<v Speaker 2>call about. It's the number one thing that I've been

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<v Speaker 2>working on. And I think, you know, preventing these shoot

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<v Speaker 2>spikes that we've seen in the last five years, giving

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<v Speaker 2>people a direct property tax cuts they're going to see

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<v Speaker 2>in January, and hopefully then decide, you know, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>limit property taxes, We're gonna bring them down. But yes,

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<v Speaker 2>it's there's a lot to think about, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>Representative Dave Thomas, you're not related to Wendy's Burgers.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Nonetheless, about a minute remaining, there's a sense, Uh, you're

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<v Speaker 1>not in charge of this as much as you are

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<v Speaker 1>the real estate taxes. Your effort there is good, I

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<v Speaker 1>like the name of it, the Property Tax Relief Now Act.

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<v Speaker 1>But nonetheless, there's a sense that the Browns are getting

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<v Speaker 1>like four or five undred million dollars, the Bengals are

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<v Speaker 1>getting nothing. What's your sense of whether there's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a large amount of money from the Unclaimed Fund

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<v Speaker 1>section to pay for all these stadiums in Cleveland? And Cincinnati.

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<v Speaker 1>What's your sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Senate plan was very different than our House plan,

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<v Speaker 2>so that's part of the budget process, and now we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to come together and see you where that's going

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<v Speaker 2>to fall. I don't know how it's going to shake out.

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<v Speaker 2>I know folks did not see me very happy about

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<v Speaker 2>using unclaimed funds, using actual tax dollars for this, But

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<v Speaker 2>that's someone's money that's sitting there. The House plan wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>have used people's tax dollars, and it would have been

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<v Speaker 2>a very different funding mechanism. So I think still a

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<v Speaker 2>lot to work through.

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<v Speaker 1>I think one sales point I Representative Dave Thomas, if

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<v Speaker 1>we vote to eliminate the real estate taxes, if voters

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<v Speaker 1>know that in eliminating that that in municipalities, the voters

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<v Speaker 1>have to approve a large income tax increase or a

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<v Speaker 1>large sales tax increase, or a combination of both. There's

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<v Speaker 1>no such thing as at free lunch. Maybe that would

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<v Speaker 1>dampen down some of it. Maybe your act would help that,

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<v Speaker 1>but I can't imagine paying seventeen to twenty percent of

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<v Speaker 1>a sales tax in Hamilton County. I we're talking, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's what's going to be required to substitute for the

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<v Speaker 1>real estate taxes if that goes away, and that's you

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<v Speaker 1>have to get out your pencil and figure that out.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're saying it's going to be a significant increase

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<v Speaker 1>of the sales tax and nor the income tax. One

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<v Speaker 1>way or another, the piper must be paid. Well, Dave Thomas,

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<v Speaker 1>good luck to you. And this is going to come

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<v Speaker 1>to a head wind like in three weeks and the

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<v Speaker 1>end of June.

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<v Speaker 2>Our bill, yes, our bill, House Book three thirty five.

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<v Speaker 2>The goal is to have it done by in the June,

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<v Speaker 2>and that way folks see release starting the summer and

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<v Speaker 2>really in January twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 1>It's got to happen because I can't imagine that the

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<v Speaker 1>outflow of residents of Hamilton County, in Claremont County and

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<v Speaker 1>Butler County in the Indiana, in Kentucky. If we have

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<v Speaker 1>a twenty percent sales tax along with increases in the

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<v Speaker 1>income taxes municipalities that pay for all this, people are

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<v Speaker 1>going to leave and then it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>tipping point and that's not good. Well, Dave Thomas, good

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<v Speaker 1>luck to you, and say hi to your daughter Wendy

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<v Speaker 1>whenever you see her. And once again, thanks for coming

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<v Speaker 1>on the Bill Cunningham Show and Representative Dave Thomas. You're

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<v Speaker 1>a great American. Thank you, thank you, sir, God bless

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<v Speaker 1>you a Let's continue with more. Unbelievable, unbelievable and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>when I had this brief conversation with the rock sitting there,

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<v Speaker 1>he said, Yo, man, I'm paying. I don't know what

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<v Speaker 1>he gave me a number. I don't want to deal

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<v Speaker 1>his personal business. It was a big number. Eliminate all that. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's good, but then how do police and fire in

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<v Speaker 1>the schools actually do something all Let's continue with more.

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Cunningham News Radio seven hundred w AUTIM