Speaker 1: Bill Cunningham, the Great American. Of course, Ohio winds are
Speaker 1: very concerned about payments to the Browns and the Bengals.
Speaker 1: We're concerned about real estate tax relief. And this isn't
Speaker 1: just about old folks, It's about young Americans. I've had
Speaker 1: many thirty, thirty, five, forty years old saying their taxes
Speaker 1: are skyrocketing. And the little town of Madeira, which is
Speaker 1: close to where I broadcast from. If you've got a
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars house, you pay about twelve thousand,
Speaker 1: thirteen thousand a year and property taxes. If it's a
Speaker 1: million dollar house, you pay twenty thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 1: Bothering Madeira is excellent schools that are extremely expensive. But
Speaker 1: there are some in Columbus trying to instead a curse
Speaker 1: in the darkness lighting a candle. And one of the
Speaker 1: House Republicans in charge, of course, is Dave Thomas of
Speaker 1: the Richfield, Ohio area. He's got a I'm sorry, he's
Speaker 1: in the Jefferson area of the state of Ohio, and
Speaker 1: he's got a bill that would be landmarked ledge if adopted,
Speaker 1: that would deliver three point five billion dollars in property
Speaker 1: tax relief to Ohio wins across the state. Nothing's been
Speaker 1: touched for about fifty years. And David Thomas, State Rep.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bill Cunningham Show. And first of all,
Speaker 1: tell me what your bill would do, if anything, about
Speaker 1: the skyrocketing real estate taxes.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much for having me on. I
Speaker 2: was a former county auditor in Nashavilla County, did that
Speaker 2: for six years. Why I ran Firstate representative was our
Speaker 2: property tax system. You just said it right there. It's
Speaker 2: way out of whack. The system is broken. We've been
Speaker 2: introducing a lot of bills working through some pretty shrunk policy.
Speaker 2: What the House is now proposed as our kind of
Speaker 2: overarching project is House Bill three thirty five. It's the
Speaker 2: property tax release. Now at big components, The big kind
Speaker 2: of overarching aspects of it though, are to, like you said,
Speaker 2: give three point five billion dollars worth of direct property
Speaker 2: tax decreases to everyone across the state in January of
Speaker 2: next year right away, and then we're looking at essentially
Speaker 2: we're moving the idea. One of the big problems for
Speaker 2: property taxes. We all know it's a capital gains unrealized
Speaker 2: capital gains tax, and we need to remove the idea
Speaker 2: of when your value increases, then your property tax increases
Speaker 2: by that same amount are almost close. We do that
Speaker 2: by limiting down how much schools are getting from property
Speaker 2: taxes moving forward, limiting that twenty mili floor that you
Speaker 2: made relation, and removing something called inside millage. And what
Speaker 2: this is. Inside millage is a portion of your tax
Speaker 2: bill that we've never voted on. It's kind of the
Speaker 2: base level on your tax bill. That ten mills or
Speaker 2: one percent of your property value is your tax rate.
Speaker 2: It's applied to your property every year, and when your
Speaker 2: value goes up, your tax bill goes up right along
Speaker 2: with it. And I know folks in your listening area
Speaker 2: have had their property taxes skyrocket. Yes, my home area
Speaker 2: as well. Yes, And this is a big part of
Speaker 2: that reason. Because your tax rates aren't decreasing like when
Speaker 2: you vote for a levee. Instead, your tax rates stay
Speaker 2: the same. Your value goes up, and we need to
Speaker 2: essentially eliminate that idea and give the voters the full
Speaker 2: authority to be able to say, I want my property
Speaker 2: taxes to go up, I want those services or I
Speaker 2: want things to say the same, and I don't want
Speaker 2: those services. That's a huge component of the spill, and
Speaker 2: moving forward, it will do wonders for homeowners across Ohio
Speaker 2: who are worried right now. They see their market value
Speaker 2: increasing and they're worried about how much more than you're
Speaker 2: saying on the property taxes.
Speaker 1: You know, if you give an Ohioan the opportunity to
Speaker 1: eliminate or occurtail by direct vote property taxes, it's going
Speaker 1: to happen. Now you may be aware of this is
Speaker 1: working through the system right now here. We are approaching
Speaker 1: the middle of June. But in November we may be
Speaker 1: voting to eliminate or curtail property taxes. And so might
Speaker 1: your bill be a dollar I think it's going to pass.
Speaker 1: I think sixty percent of us are going to say
Speaker 1: we can't take it anymore. But the problem is what
Speaker 1: are you substitute it with? Is it sales taxes? An
Speaker 1: income tax? And Republicans in Columbus want to have a
Speaker 1: flat tax I think at two point seven percent of
Speaker 1: state income tax? And so what impact does the vote
Speaker 1: to reject property taxes in Toto have on your bill
Speaker 1: which wouldn't take effect until January.
Speaker 2: Right, so the bill would take effect this year with
Speaker 2: one last component, which is the Budget Commission. That's a
Speaker 2: group at the county level of three elected individuals who
Speaker 2: actually right now have no real authority. We're giving them
Speaker 2: the full authority to decrease tax rates, to freeze RIP
Speaker 2: is coming in to review budgets. That'll start right away.
Speaker 2: But the actual three point five billion dollars of the
Speaker 2: inside millage being cut to all property owners, you're right,
Speaker 2: that starts in January. We are late. I just started
Speaker 2: in January of this year, and I joke with folks,
Speaker 2: I've had five months to make up for five years
Speaker 2: of frankly, the state not doing a lot right in
Speaker 2: this in this realm. So I feel for the taxpayers.
Speaker 2: That's why I ran I work. Actually talked quite a
Speaker 2: bit with the folks who are pushing the Constitutional Amendment.
Speaker 2: I've told them, you know, you guys do your thing.
Speaker 2: I'll keep trying to reform, make strong changes to the legislature,
Speaker 2: and if we kind of do this in tandem, you
Speaker 2: know something's going to have to happen for our taxpayers
Speaker 2: one way or the other.
Speaker 1: What happens on the constitutional Amendment, which means if that passes,
Speaker 1: much like the abortion thing was constitutional amendment, much like
Speaker 1: the marijuana thing was. It was not a constitutional amendment.
Speaker 1: It was an ordinance, so to speak. But constitutional amendment passes.
Speaker 1: What happens if the people of Ohio get a free
Speaker 1: shot eliminating largely property taxes. Can you tell the American
Speaker 1: people what will we vote on assuming you get enough signatures,
Speaker 1: et cetera, which I think they will. Well, what are
Speaker 1: we voting on a November about real estate taxes?
Speaker 2: So it could be on November ballot or I think
Speaker 2: it will probably be on the May ballot of next year.
Speaker 2: They have to get about six hundred thousand signatures and
Speaker 2: now less than about three weeks, so they're doing a lot.
Speaker 2: They're really good grassroots folks. But I envisioned probably next May,
Speaker 2: whatever it's on the ballot, Ohioans will be voting on.
Speaker 2: It's a very simple amendment that just says, you know,
Speaker 2: we're keealing or abolishing all real property taxes. Oh oh, and.
Speaker 1: Yes, what happens to wait a minute, that's a great idea,
Speaker 1: you know in the spiritual world, that's great. Eliminate all
Speaker 1: real estate property taxes. Let's say we vote on that.
Speaker 1: How does schools and government fund itself?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Property tax is the biggest tax in the state
Speaker 2: of Ohio, and pay the most tax through their property tax,
Speaker 2: which is probably the problem, and that's what we're working
Speaker 2: on the lead stage right now. It's twenty two billion
Speaker 2: dollars and all of that money, that twenty two billion
Speaker 2: dollars stays the local level. The state doesn't get any
Speaker 2: of it. So that's twenty two billions at that word
Speaker 2: to go away. Those are your commercial properties paying that,
Speaker 2: your public utilities paying it, and your individuals. If that
Speaker 2: goes away, You're exactly right. We still have to fund
Speaker 2: our police, our fire, schools, roads, all those things. We
Speaker 2: would My assumption is, I don't want to speak for
Speaker 2: the future, but local governments already have the ability to
Speaker 2: use other revenue sources besides property. They're just so tied
Speaker 2: to the idea that we've got to use property tax
Speaker 2: to fund our services. We can't use other means. But
Speaker 2: our counties actually have sales tax, right and our villages,
Speaker 2: our cities, and our schools actually have the income tax.
Speaker 2: And we're already asking them. You've got to shift over
Speaker 2: or decrease your spending. Pre tax side is way too overburdened.
Speaker 2: But if all the property goes away, will likely just
Speaker 2: allow them to have whatever income tax, whatever sales tax
Speaker 2: the voters will approve, and that will be how we
Speaker 2: fund our services. It would be on average about a
Speaker 2: three times either three times the sales tax you're currently
Speaker 2: paying or three times the income tax are currently paying
Speaker 2: for all those services. That's just how big property taxes are.
Speaker 1: So let's get practical. Let's say the city of Maderra,
Speaker 1: the city of Deer Park. Let's talk about the village
Speaker 1: of Indian Hill around our area, Sycamore. You're a little
Speaker 1: bit north of there, and it's very expensive to send
Speaker 1: your kid to Maderra, Indian Hill, Marymont Schools, Mason very
Speaker 1: expensive to go there, and the real estate taxes funds
Speaker 1: most of what the schools do. And so you're saying,
Speaker 1: if we vote in November or May to eliminate completely
Speaker 1: the real estate taxes, the burden will be on the
Speaker 1: city of Mason or the city of Maderra, the city
Speaker 1: a Dare Park, of the village of Indian Hill to
Speaker 1: enact some sort of a tax, likely an income tax,
Speaker 1: to raise the money to equal what was raised through
Speaker 1: the real estate tax. Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, those cities which they can already do now
Speaker 2: they can, those cities would increase their income tax to
Speaker 2: make up for the property tax, and then the school
Speaker 2: which they can actually do now too, would increase their
Speaker 2: income tax to make up for the loss of the
Speaker 2: property tax.
Speaker 1: Side, what if you're in a what if you're in
Speaker 1: a unincorporated township. Let's say I live in Sycamore Township.
Speaker 1: Sycamore Township, by law, cannot have an income tax. Well,
Speaker 1: how would the townships fund schools?
Speaker 2: Yeah, townships would be a unique area because what a
Speaker 2: township makes and is is an area that only has
Speaker 2: property tax. That's why in our big reform bill we
Speaker 2: still allow them to have this inside village. But if
Speaker 2: all property tax were to go away, townships would essentially
Speaker 2: have no funding for their services that they're giving. My
Speaker 2: best guess is the townships would likely be funded through
Speaker 2: the counties with a sales tax shared fund.
Speaker 1: So that means that Hamley County commissioners would have to
Speaker 1: raise you'd give this from the state. You would give
Speaker 1: the authority of Hamlety County commissioners maybe to raise the
Speaker 1: sales tax by an extra point or something. With the
Speaker 1: understanding that would fund the schools and other police services
Speaker 1: in the townships. Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you probably have to raise it a lot more
Speaker 2: than one point. Yeah. My guess is it probably would
Speaker 2: be anywhere. I don't know your finances, but probably between
Speaker 2: five and ten percent would be my assumption.
Speaker 1: I mean so right right now in Hamley County, I
Speaker 1: think it's about seven percent. And so if the real
Speaker 1: estate tax went away, would the tax sales tax in
Speaker 1: Hamiley County be like twelve percent?
Speaker 2: No? No, you you would probably be around seventeen to
Speaker 2: twenty percent. Say that again, because you would likely be
Speaker 2: around seventeen to twenty percent.
Speaker 1: Of sales tax.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Why man, let me get this straight. So if this passes,
Speaker 1: and if you give the voters an opportunity to vote
Speaker 1: this real estate, it's going to pass. So he's saying,
Speaker 1: if that, if that passes and no money comes in
Speaker 1: real estate taxes in state of Ohio practical example, Hamilton
Speaker 1: County commissioners or tend to be liberal Democrats, unlike Warren
Speaker 1: County that tends to be conservative Republicans or Claremont County
Speaker 1: Butler County Conservative republic So you're saying, in order to
Speaker 1: equal the amount of money in that county, raised from
Speaker 1: the elimination of the property of real estate taxes, that
Speaker 1: the sales tax would have to be around seventeen to
Speaker 1: twenty percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not not seeing your exact financials, but knowing kind
Speaker 2: of you know how much it takes on average to replace,
Speaker 2: and knowing frankly that you all, like my area in
Speaker 2: Ashibula are a border county, and so you're going to
Speaker 2: lose revenue from people leaving the state to go buy
Speaker 2: things in West Virginia or Kentucky are different places like that. Yes,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to have that high. In addition, one
Speaker 2: of the kind of aspects to property tax is that
Speaker 2: public utilities pay property tax, commercial buildings pay property tax.
Speaker 2: If we were to completely eliminate commercial and public utility
Speaker 2: property tax along with residential, well now it's going to
Speaker 2: be the individuals paying that portion. If the county commissioners,
Speaker 2: as you said, are wanting to make up that total
Speaker 2: revenue dollar for dollar, wow, much higher. So we're trying
Speaker 2: to reflect from the system and make it much more
Speaker 2: responsive to the taxpayers because there's always unintended consequences. But
Speaker 2: I feel for our homeowners and our taxpayers, they're tapped out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's an extreme situation right now.
Speaker 1: You know I shouldn't, I shouldn't use his name, but
Speaker 1: I will. Rocky Boyman, my running mate. Here as a
Speaker 1: spread of ponderosa in western Hamlin County and east complaining
Speaker 1: as many I complain about real estate taxes. And you
Speaker 1: give the average person an opportunity to eliminate the real
Speaker 1: estate tax, they're going to do it. Now you use
Speaker 1: the term unintended consequences. But if that happens and it's
Speaker 1: voted down and we don't have any more real estate
Speaker 1: taxes quickly that Hamiony County commissioners are going to have
Speaker 1: to raise the sales tax, which is called going to
Speaker 1: call us a bleeding of Hamilton County residents. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're north to here, but I can look high in
Speaker 1: the building and I can see Kenton County. I can
Speaker 1: see Campbell County. I can see Boone County, Kentucky. I
Speaker 1: can see Lawrenceburg, which are great communities to live in.
Speaker 1: I would think there'd be an outflow from Hamlety County
Speaker 1: to the surrounding counties. Maybe that wouldn't happen where you are,
Speaker 1: but in Columbus it probably would. But in Cincinnati we
Speaker 1: would leave.
Speaker 2: Right, that's one potential. That's a problem.
Speaker 1: That's a problem.
Speaker 2: That's a problem, and that's why tackling our tax system
Speaker 2: has to be It's the number one thing that people
Speaker 2: call about. It's the number one thing that I've been
Speaker 2: working on. And I think, you know, preventing these shoot
Speaker 2: spikes that we've seen in the last five years, giving
Speaker 2: people a direct property tax cuts they're going to see
Speaker 2: in January, and hopefully then decide, you know, we're gonna
Speaker 2: limit property taxes, We're gonna bring them down. But yes,
Speaker 2: it's there's a lot to think about, all right.
Speaker 1: Representative Dave Thomas, you're not related to Wendy's Burgers.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Nonetheless, about a minute remaining, there's a sense, Uh, you're
Speaker 1: not in charge of this as much as you are
Speaker 1: the real estate taxes. Your effort there is good, I
Speaker 1: like the name of it, the Property Tax Relief Now Act.
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, there's a sense that the Browns are getting
Speaker 1: like four or five undred million dollars, the Bengals are
Speaker 1: getting nothing. What's your sense of whether there's going to
Speaker 1: be a large amount of money from the Unclaimed Fund
Speaker 1: section to pay for all these stadiums in Cleveland? And Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: What's your sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Senate plan was very different than our House plan,
Speaker 2: so that's part of the budget process, and now we're
Speaker 2: going to come together and see you where that's going
Speaker 2: to fall. I don't know how it's going to shake out.
Speaker 2: I know folks did not see me very happy about
Speaker 2: using unclaimed funds, using actual tax dollars for this, But
Speaker 2: that's someone's money that's sitting there. The House plan wouldn't
Speaker 2: have used people's tax dollars, and it would have been
Speaker 2: a very different funding mechanism. So I think still a
Speaker 2: lot to work through.
Speaker 1: I think one sales point I Representative Dave Thomas, if
Speaker 1: we vote to eliminate the real estate taxes, if voters
Speaker 1: know that in eliminating that that in municipalities, the voters
Speaker 1: have to approve a large income tax increase or a
Speaker 1: large sales tax increase, or a combination of both. There's
Speaker 1: no such thing as at free lunch. Maybe that would
Speaker 1: dampen down some of it. Maybe your act would help that,
Speaker 1: but I can't imagine paying seventeen to twenty percent of
Speaker 1: a sales tax in Hamilton County. I we're talking, and
Speaker 1: that's what's going to be required to substitute for the
Speaker 1: real estate taxes if that goes away, and that's you
Speaker 1: have to get out your pencil and figure that out.
Speaker 1: But you're saying it's going to be a significant increase
Speaker 1: of the sales tax and nor the income tax. One
Speaker 1: way or another, the piper must be paid. Well, Dave Thomas,
Speaker 1: good luck to you. And this is going to come
Speaker 1: to a head wind like in three weeks and the
Speaker 1: end of June.
Speaker 2: Our bill, yes, our bill, House Book three thirty five.
Speaker 2: The goal is to have it done by in the June,
Speaker 2: and that way folks see release starting the summer and
Speaker 2: really in January twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: It's got to happen because I can't imagine that the
Speaker 1: outflow of residents of Hamilton County, in Claremont County and
Speaker 1: Butler County in the Indiana, in Kentucky. If we have
Speaker 1: a twenty percent sales tax along with increases in the
Speaker 1: income taxes municipalities that pay for all this, people are
Speaker 1: going to leave and then it's going to be a
Speaker 1: tipping point and that's not good. Well, Dave Thomas, good
Speaker 1: luck to you, and say hi to your daughter Wendy
Speaker 1: whenever you see her. And once again, thanks for coming
Speaker 1: on the Bill Cunningham Show and Representative Dave Thomas. You're
Speaker 1: a great American. Thank you, thank you, sir, God bless
Speaker 1: you a Let's continue with more. Unbelievable, unbelievable and uh,
Speaker 1: when I had this brief conversation with the rock sitting there,
Speaker 1: he said, Yo, man, I'm paying. I don't know what
Speaker 1: he gave me a number. I don't want to deal
Speaker 1: his personal business. It was a big number. Eliminate all that. Well,
Speaker 1: that's good, but then how do police and fire in
Speaker 1: the schools actually do something all Let's continue with more.
Speaker 1: Bill Cunningham News Radio seven hundred w AUTIM