1 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,039 --> 00:00:23,760 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, senior Elections correspondent at The 3 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,719 Federalist and your experienced sherpa on today's Quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:32,039 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:36,359 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 6 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,840 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,520 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:45,039 --> 00:00:49,600 Our guest today is Doug DeVoss, American businessman and chairman 9 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,159 of the National Constitution Center. He says like his father 10 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,719 did fifty years ago, probably said it more than that, 11 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:05,319 but he says America isn't in decline, just drifting. Doug, 12 00:01:05,359 --> 00:01:07,359 thank you so much for joining us on this edition 13 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,599 of the Federalist Radio Hour. 14 00:01:09,159 --> 00:01:11,519 Speaker 2: Matt, it's an honor to be here and I really 15 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:12,200 appreciate it. 16 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,359 Speaker 1: I think this is an exciting topic. I think it's fascinating. 18 00:01:17,879 --> 00:01:21,319 It was when your father's book came out, and for 19 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:27,120 those not familiar with Rich Devas's book in nineteen seventy five, 20 00:01:27,359 --> 00:01:32,879 it's called Believe, a Timeless endorsement of American Principles. This 21 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,719 is the fiftieth anniversary edition that is coming out this year. 22 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,480 And it's interesting to note that this came out at 23 00:01:44,519 --> 00:01:47,560 the bi centennial year and now here we are, Doug 24 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,480 two hundred and fifty years into this great experiment of 25 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:55,439 this exceptional republic. Tell us a little bit about the 26 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,359 book and the principles that are still so valid today. 27 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and Matt, thanks for giving me the opportunity to 28 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,159 talk about this, because, as you said, this experiment that 29 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,360 we have of self governance or self government is quite extraordinary, 30 00:02:13,319 --> 00:02:16,360 and it's something that you know that my father lived 31 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,560 into and that we've lived into. And we know we're 32 00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:22,319 not a perfect country, but we know we're always trying 33 00:02:22,319 --> 00:02:24,159 to be more perfect. And it's like all of us 34 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,080 in life, and as time goes on, it's easy to 35 00:02:28,199 --> 00:02:31,719 kind of get further and further away from the founding principles, 36 00:02:31,759 --> 00:02:34,919 the founding values of any organization, and that happens as 37 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,800 a country as well. So that's why I use afraid 38 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,479 I think it's easy to be drifting, but it's important 39 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,360 to remind ourselves of what our course should be, what 40 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,400 our target should be, and what that north star looks like. 41 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,400 And so you know, Dad talked about elements that were 42 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,080 really important to him, you know, belief in people and 43 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,840 the potential of every person of a positive attitude, of 44 00:03:00,039 --> 00:03:03,759 belief in God, in having a faith base in your 45 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,759 life at least challenging yourself with that decision. Belief in family, 46 00:03:07,879 --> 00:03:13,360 belief in free enterprise, accountability, some of those core issues 47 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,319 that were so important in his life, and of course 48 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:21,520 belief in America. And so we continue to believe in 49 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,960 America and challenge ourselves as citizens to be paying attention 50 00:03:27,479 --> 00:03:29,639 and to be challenging ourselves to say, what can we 51 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,599 do to be part of making America more perfect. 52 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:35,919 Speaker 1: Of course, that book that we're talking about, Believe a 53 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,159 Timeless Endorsement of American Principles, was written by the co 54 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,840 founder of Amway, Rich de Voss. You, sir, are the 55 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:52,280 co chairman co chair of Amway. Your family has definitely 56 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:55,960 lived the American dream like so many other families. You 57 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,840 started off with a guy or a gal with an idea. Huh, 58 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:06,120 took that idea and thanks to the American system, he 59 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,439 was able to turn that idea into a national force. 60 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. In fact, Amway is just you know, uh, 61 00:04:16,199 --> 00:04:18,480 it's the American way. That's where they came up with 62 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:20,759 the name. You know, they felt that everybody should have 63 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,160 an opportunity to have a business of their own. Everybody 64 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,920 should have an opportunity to to to be free to 65 00:04:25,959 --> 00:04:29,759 pursue their their goals and be an entrepreneur and and 66 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:33,079 and engage in the free enterprise system. Uh. You know, 67 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,600 that's what Dad and his business partner Javen Andel, that's 68 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,759 what they lived. You know, they lived through the Depression, 69 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,720 they lived through World War two. Uh. And so after 70 00:04:42,759 --> 00:04:45,560 that they just felt that, you know, that they wanted 71 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,399 to have this American dream shared with as many people 72 00:04:48,439 --> 00:04:50,959 as possible. And that was there, that was their idea 73 00:04:51,519 --> 00:04:54,319 of how to make it, how to make it happen. Uh. 74 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,839 And so we, you know, continue to base these you know, 75 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,079 this this work and the work of of the company 76 00:05:01,199 --> 00:05:05,079 in how we continue to spread that not only through 77 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,759 our business operations, but that those ideas like what Dad 78 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,759 decided to write down in his book, and to continue 79 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,160 to build on these principles and find new ways to 80 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,079 apply them. Certainly we've applied them in our business, but 81 00:05:20,199 --> 00:05:22,040 how do you apply them in other businesses? How do 82 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:23,800 you apply them in your family? How do you apply 83 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,319 them in life? How do you apply them as a 84 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:32,680 country so that we can stop drifting and build on 85 00:05:32,759 --> 00:05:36,240 principles that are timeless, that are not just the you know, 86 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,920 not just the last, the latest and greatest new idea, 87 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,480 but ideas have have proven over time. That doesn't mean 88 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,439 that you're not innovative, that you're not creative, that you're 89 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,240 not finding new ways to apply these principles. But the 90 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,319 principles are timeless, and that's where if once you have 91 00:05:53,439 --> 00:05:57,319 that foundation, then you can really do good work and 92 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,600 you can move yourself forward from there, whether it's starting 93 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:02,680 a business of your own, being an entrepreneur, whether it's 94 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,120 a career, whether it's a family. Well, in fact, you 95 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,480 know a lot of people would say that the family 96 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,399 is the most entrepreneurial thing you can do to start 97 00:06:11,399 --> 00:06:14,480 a family and to try to you know, to raise 98 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,759 a family in that way. And so having four children 99 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:18,879 I agree with that. 100 00:06:19,759 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: Having three, I agree with that. And it's always good 101 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,399 to have a very good manager. And that ain't me 102 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,399 in this family. Dynamic quarterback is my wife definitely for sure. 103 00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:33,680 And I'm with you there, Matt, she has been so 104 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,279 for twenty plus years. 105 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:35,639 Speaker 2: Now. 106 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,959 Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, what do you think your 107 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:45,160 father would say about the state of America and the 108 00:06:45,399 --> 00:06:49,519 shape of the American dream, and what do you think 109 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:50,120 about it all? 110 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,519 Speaker 2: Sure, well, I think Dad would What would he say 111 00:06:54,519 --> 00:06:56,759 about the state of America. I think he would say 112 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,360 that it's not where we want to be. Dad was optistic, 113 00:07:00,439 --> 00:07:02,439 and I want to be optimistic too. And you look 114 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:04,839 at things, you know. I don't look at things to say, oh, 115 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:07,600 it's just terrible or get into a negative spiral at all. 116 00:07:08,519 --> 00:07:10,839 I continue to go back to the principles that were 117 00:07:10,839 --> 00:07:13,839 in the book, that we can be better than we are, 118 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:16,399 We can make improvements in our lives, and we can 119 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,360 do it for our country as well. And so we 120 00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:23,639 want to make sure we stay optimistic and understand that 121 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,879 each and every person is created to be unique and 122 00:07:26,959 --> 00:07:30,519 special and has gifts and talents, and like I said earlier, 123 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,800 has the ability to achieve great things. They have great potential. 124 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:38,240 And so I think what Dad would say, and you'll 125 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,600 have to forgive me, Matt, I would tend to echo 126 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,160 just about everything that my father said. I grew up 127 00:07:44,199 --> 00:07:46,279 in that environment and sure, you know, worked in the 128 00:07:46,279 --> 00:07:49,480 business my whole life. But I think we would we 129 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,439 would say, you know, we would stay optimistic, and we 130 00:07:53,519 --> 00:07:57,000 would figure out how to get to work and what 131 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,600 do we need to do, Who do we need to 132 00:07:58,639 --> 00:08:01,759 talk to, how do we need to interact, you know, 133 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,920 how do we bring people together, rally people around those 134 00:08:06,959 --> 00:08:10,519 foundational ideas. Let's go back to the founding of our 135 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,839 country and what were we trying to achieve at that time, 136 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:18,040 how have we failed since then? What do we need 137 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:20,319 to do to correct it? And how do we get 138 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:25,480 to work together? And so I think it's a series of, 139 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:29,160 you know, of people coming together having these conversations. And 140 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,039 one of the reasons that he was, you know, you know, 141 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,720 so interested in writing the book was that it gave 142 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:38,080 him a reason to have conversations. And in our business, 143 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,440 we would interact with people continuously, so you could talk 144 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,159 about these issues, uh, and do it in a thoughtful way. 145 00:08:45,919 --> 00:08:49,679 And you mentioned earlier my role with the National Constitution Center. 146 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,120 That's exactly what we're trying to do at the National 147 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:58,120 Constitution Center is to foster conversations and to really remind 148 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,320 ourselves that to be a citizen, to be a good citizen, 149 00:09:02,519 --> 00:09:06,120 requires work. It requires us to think for ourselves, It 150 00:09:06,159 --> 00:09:10,840 requires us to you know, to make decisions, to gather facts, 151 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,399 to have dialogue, to be curious, and to learn more 152 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,799 about maybe positions that don't naturally come to us, but 153 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,440 we want to know about them so we can evaluate 154 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:23,799 what we believe, uh, and that we can act accordingly. 155 00:09:23,879 --> 00:09:25,919 So I think those are some of the things that uh, 156 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,720 you know that that I watched my dad do. So 157 00:09:28,759 --> 00:09:31,480 I'm not just trying to interpret, you know, what he 158 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:34,000 would have thought. I really am trying to interpret what 159 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,759 I watched him do. Uh, you know, for you know, 160 00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:41,240 majority of his life since the writing of his book 161 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,240 and and the years after that he was able to 162 00:09:44,279 --> 00:09:47,200 be with us. So so that's those are the things 163 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:47,840 that come to mind. 164 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:54,399 Speaker 1: How much do you see America's educational system and in 165 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,799 so many quarters the failure of America's educational system in 166 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:04,879 where we are are today. I think most, if not many, 167 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,879 of our listeners would know that you're the brother in 168 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,840 law of the former Secretary of Education in Trump won, 169 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:19,600 Betsy DeVos, and she is and has been for a 170 00:10:19,639 --> 00:10:24,519 long time a proponent of school choice, making sure that 171 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:29,159 there's a marketplace out there of ideas and places for 172 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:35,000 parents and students who are not succeeding for whatever reason 173 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,519 to find another school that the money should not follow 174 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:41,960 the institutions, but the students. How much do you think 175 00:10:42,159 --> 00:10:45,559 education is involved in where we are today and perhaps 176 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,879 where we are today from where we are in nineteen seventy. 177 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 2: Five, sure, you know, first of all, I just want 178 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,200 to thank you for recognizing Betsy. We're so proud of 179 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,480 her and what she worked hard to accomplish. And she's 180 00:10:56,519 --> 00:10:58,759 not done working, by the way, she continues to be 181 00:10:59,039 --> 00:11:03,279 very active in this space because these believes in this 182 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:09,799 cause so so strongly, and to see that there are 183 00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:14,159 places where children can learn, where they can explore, where 184 00:11:14,279 --> 00:11:17,840 they can you know, they can find ways to you know, 185 00:11:17,879 --> 00:11:22,759 to to grow and figure out, how to discern and 186 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,519 make their own decisions over time, and to create an 187 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,279 environment where it is not a top down in doctrination, 188 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:40,559 but an environment where where new information is revealed, where 189 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,279 you know, kids can grow, where they can be curious 190 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:49,279 and explore about subjects that are you know, that are 191 00:11:49,399 --> 00:11:51,799 important to them or that come to them naturally, maybe 192 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,679 to build their gifts out in those sorts of directions. 193 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,000 You know, I think the nature of education, and particularly 194 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,879 we'll go to civics a little bit about how to 195 00:12:02,919 --> 00:12:07,960 be a citizen, I think that's really been lacking. And 196 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,120 if you kind of connect what we're trying to do 197 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:14,279 with the Constitution Center, we have a tremendous amount of 198 00:12:14,279 --> 00:12:17,840 effort that goes into connecting with students about what it's 199 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:20,039 like to be a citizen, what the history of our 200 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:23,360 country is, what are the great principles that we were 201 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,600 founded upon, what are the mistakes that we made, what 202 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,320 can we learn from how do we go forward? But 203 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,879 I think the whole idea of education, and especially the 204 00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:37,840 way technology is allowing us to access information on a 205 00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:43,320 regular basis and almost unlimited access to information, we should 206 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,240 be as curious and as innovative and how we pursue 207 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,759 education for the next generation of Americans as we are 208 00:12:51,759 --> 00:12:56,320 about other things in our society or in our economy. 209 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,519 And that's what Betsy was trying to accomplish, to create 210 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,639 policies so that so that families could have more of 211 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,240 that ability to be curious and to explore in ways 212 00:13:08,279 --> 00:13:11,879 that would best suit them and especially best suit their children. 213 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: And all with all, yeah, it does, yeah, absolutely. With 214 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:18,559 all of that said, I'm curious, what do you think 215 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,919 about you know, what we have seen really over the 216 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,080 last i think you can trace it back to a 217 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,120 couple of generations now where you have in the school 218 00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:30,840 system and from your point of view of uh, you know, 219 00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:35,519 co chair of the Constitution Center, there has been a 220 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:38,960 teaching method found in so many of our public schools 221 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:45,080 in particular, that is almost there's no almost about it, 222 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,360 ashamed of America, and it's and it's passed, and the 223 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:55,519 teaching of systemic racism. That racism is you know, a 224 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,879 feature of everything. It's it's it's injected into our institution. 225 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,279 It's down deep in our DNA, and it is, in 226 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,840 my estimation, a culture of victimhood that I think that 227 00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:14,679 has set this country back. It has caused some real issues. 228 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,919 What do you think about all of all of that 229 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,399 as we deal with you know, modern America. 230 00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's hard to teach a subject that 231 00:14:25,039 --> 00:14:28,480 you don't like. You know, So if you're trying to 232 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:31,080 teach somebody about something and you really don't like the 233 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,919 subject matter, it's hard to give the balanced view to 234 00:14:36,039 --> 00:14:40,320 people as they go forward, and then you're subject to 235 00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,360 again the latest idea of the day or the latest 236 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,480 grievance that may come along, you know, And I like 237 00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:51,039 to go back you know, I think of Frederick Douglass 238 00:14:51,639 --> 00:14:56,480 and you know and how he what he endured in 239 00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:58,879 his life and how he came through, but how he 240 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,480 continued to believe in America. And he said, you know 241 00:15:02,519 --> 00:15:05,720 these he talked about the Declaration, they will find those principles, 242 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,159 they're saving principles in the Declaration. Now they haven't been 243 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,480 applied properly. He dealt with that personally, but he believed 244 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,600 in those principles and in the foundation of our country, 245 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,440 and that we would learn and we would get better, 246 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,159 and we would get past the mistakes of our past. 247 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,399 And that's what you want to That's the environment you 248 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,360 want to create for a childhre's learning about America. You 249 00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,159 want to be able to show the good, the bad, 250 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:42,159 everything about it. But again, compare it in a context 251 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,279 of history. Compare it in a context of what's happening 252 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:51,240 around the world, and you can see different the performance 253 00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:54,039 of different countries, the quality of life, the freedoms that 254 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,879 we enjoy so easily here and in the United States 255 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,799 and so easy to take for granted, those freedoms don't 256 00:16:01,799 --> 00:16:07,320 exist around the world. And that environment took time to create, 257 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,679 and even if it was done imperfectly, we can still 258 00:16:10,879 --> 00:16:14,639 get better as we go forward. So I think in 259 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,399 trying to teach civics, and what we try to do 260 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,480 at the Constitution Center is to bring in that context, 261 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,000 to bring in that history, to try to connect it 262 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:30,519 to the thinking of ancient philosophers that were influential on 263 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:35,480 our founders. So these thoughts, these ideas of personal freedom 264 00:16:35,559 --> 00:16:39,919 and of self government, have a rich tradition and history 265 00:16:39,919 --> 00:16:43,919 that people have been thinking about this for untold generations. 266 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,159 And here we are living this experiment today, and we 267 00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:55,480 have the chance to build on what has been accomplished 268 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,279 before us in the last two hundred and forty nine years. 269 00:16:58,559 --> 00:17:01,519 We have a chance to renew our our energy towards 270 00:17:01,559 --> 00:17:04,680 the two fiftieth in the next fifty years of think 271 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,279 what this generation can do. And I'd love for educators 272 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:13,799 to approach civics, to approach our history with that sort 273 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,640 of an attitude, so children could then be encouraged to 274 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,920 build on what's been done over the last two hundred 275 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,000 and forty five years or forty nine years and not 276 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,640 just find, you know, find ways to tear it down. 277 00:17:32,599 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: Did a single company save the stock market from crashing 278 00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:38,799 into a recession? The watch doot Own Wall Street podcast 279 00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:41,799 with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack the connection 280 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,640 between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. 281 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:48,720 Tech Powerhouse in Nvidia's earnings report did not disappoint, But 282 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:51,240 what does that tell you about the value of AI? 283 00:17:51,599 --> 00:17:54,759 This cannot save the market forever. Whether it's happening in 284 00:17:54,839 --> 00:17:57,240 DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. 285 00:17:57,319 --> 00:17:59,240 Be informed. Check out the watch dot on Wall Street 286 00:17:59,279 --> 00:18:02,160 podcast with Chris mrcwski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you 287 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:03,000 get your podcasts. 288 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into politics, but I do 289 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,359 want to talk about policy. In the last election cycle, 290 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:14,799 and we've been hearing this for a while, there are 291 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:20,400 presidential candidates who talked about mandatory civics in our schools. 292 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,720 I know that there are a lot of legislatures that 293 00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:25,960 have or are debating that. What do you think about 294 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,440 that to make because listen, when I was growing up 295 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,680 two centuries ago now, it just seemed like civics was 296 00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:39,400 You didn't have to say civics, it didn't have to 297 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,319 be the name of the course, but it was part 298 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,640 of everything I think that we did in our education 299 00:18:46,319 --> 00:18:51,680 in good Old Wisconsin, my home state doesn't, has drifted 300 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,799 away from that quite frankly, and a lot of states have. 301 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,279 What do you think about mandatory civics being taught in 302 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:58,640 our schools? 303 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,519 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's hard to imagine that we're not 304 00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:06,440 teaching it, and so, you know, so the idea that 305 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,119 that we wouldn't take time to educate our children about 306 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,039 the environment the country in which they are living so 307 00:19:13,079 --> 00:19:16,519 that they can maximize their potential just seems like a 308 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,680 tremendous disservice. And so, you know, as a country, especially 309 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,680 since you know the taxpayers are paying for this education, 310 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,920 certainly seems that you know, that putting it on the 311 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:35,319 list and making sure that people are educated, exposed to 312 00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:38,359 this topic and walk through it would make sense to me. 313 00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:41,640 I think from a policy standpoint, learning about our country 314 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,400 is important and being able to create and help the 315 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:52,319 next generation of Americans have that founding, have that understanding 316 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,000 so that they can participate and without it. My concern 317 00:19:56,279 --> 00:19:58,960 is that people don't feel like they have you know, 318 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,400 that they don't don't have a stake in our future, 319 00:20:02,839 --> 00:20:06,839 that they're just wandering around inside this country and they 320 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,400 really don't know the you know, the tremendous advantages that 321 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,079 they have by being in this country, and what they 322 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,359 can accomplish for themselves, for their community, and as you 323 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,559 see with many American innovations and many American you know, 324 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,920 businesses and operations, what you can do for the rest 325 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,920 of the world. So, you know, I think it's a 326 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,079 tremendous disservice not to have it there. And you're exactly right, Matt, 327 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,000 that you know, sometimes states drift away and this is 328 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,000 a perfect time to rediscover our north star and say 329 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,240 we need to have you know, these subjects addressed and 330 00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:52,079 taught properly, so the next generation of citizens are prepared, 331 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,599 they're aware, they understand these sorts of things. And of 332 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,240 course you and I will go back into our own 333 00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:01,440 personal histories of how we learned about civic and in 334 00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:03,920 many ways not only from school, but how it was 335 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,039 discussed at home, how you talked about those things in 336 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,799 community and you waived the flag and you were proud 337 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:16,000 of it. And that's the drift that concerns me. So overall, 338 00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:19,480 it's not just school. I'd remind all of us to 339 00:21:19,519 --> 00:21:21,799 talk to our children, talk to our families, talk to 340 00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:25,960 our neighbors, find ways to engage each other in these conversations. 341 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:26,839 You bet. 342 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: Our guest today is Doug Devass, American businessman, chairman of 343 00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:35,839 the National Constitution Center. We're talking about America. The idea 344 00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:41,200 is it in decline? Is it just drifting? That's the 345 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:45,599 concept here, and it's all tied into Doug Davos's father's 346 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,799 best selling book that came out fifty years ago, right 347 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:56,400 before the bi centennial year, American. Really the American foundational 348 00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:00,480 idea is what the book is all about by Rich 349 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:07,000 DeVoss Believe, a timeless endorsement of American principles. Doug, we 350 00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:13,319 talked about civics. Let's talk about civility and unfortunately the 351 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:20,160 lack thereof. Are you concerned about just how divided this 352 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:26,279 country is and how angry it's citizens, really truly angry 353 00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:30,680 at citizens are not only with its politicians, with their politicians, 354 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,359 but with each other. 355 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm tremendously concerned about that, you know. I And 356 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,920 the concern is the acceptance of violence and the acceptance 357 00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:48,799 that if somebody disagrees with you, you can not debate, 358 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,759 not debate them, but physically, you know, uh, try to 359 00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:59,279 hurt them. Yeah. I think that's a terrible track for 360 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,920 us to be in any ways. Certainly we can be 361 00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:05,960 upset with the situation, or certainly we can be upset 362 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,559 with a decision that's made in our government, whatever the 363 00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:11,440 case may be. But there's ways to address it. There's 364 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,000 the next election, there's the debate that you can have ahead, 365 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,359 there's a way to try to influence or get your 366 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,680 point across. And it seems to me that this lack 367 00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:27,000 of civility, and it's been part of our country from 368 00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:29,200 time to time in the past. It's been part of 369 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,400 the human experience that you resort to violence when you 370 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,160 don't think that you can find a pathway forward. But 371 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,000 I think it connects back to the previous discussion. Our 372 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:42,920 country has a pathway. There are ways to engage in 373 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,759 your country. There are ways to engage in your government 374 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,680 that allow you to have a voice, that allows you 375 00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:52,680 to have influence, and that we should learn about those 376 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,039 and take advantage of those. But the breakdown of civility, 377 00:23:57,079 --> 00:24:01,319 the verbal abuse, the physical abuse somebody thinks that they're 378 00:24:01,559 --> 00:24:06,039 entitled to just because somebody else disagrees with them, is 379 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,160 unacceptable in what we want to try to do, and 380 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,440 especially at the Constitution Center and what we should all 381 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,200 try to do as citizens is model the good behavior, 382 00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:19,880 and there's a lot of that too. We had a 383 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,559 recent event at our local Economic Club where we tried 384 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,960 to do that. We've brought the National Constitution Center in 385 00:24:28,039 --> 00:24:31,519 to have different debates on certain topics, but we had 386 00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:36,160 a group of people that would be together talking about 387 00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:39,079 issues and understanding that we wanted to do it in 388 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,519 a civil way. And one of the things that the 389 00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:45,359 Constitution Center does, and Jeff Rosen, who's the CEO there, 390 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,599 does a brilliant job when he brings groups together. Here's 391 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,960 a topic, do you agree with it or disagree with it? 392 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,319 And part of the hands will go up with they agree, 393 00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:55,960 the other hands will say they disagree, and they'll have 394 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,240 the debate, and then afterwards he'll ask did anybody change 395 00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:03,319 their mind? Very few people changed their mind, But he'll 396 00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:08,519 ask then how many of you understand the other side better? 397 00:25:09,079 --> 00:25:11,960 And that's where everybody raises their hand. And so if 398 00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:14,519 we can walk away with an understanding, maybe I know 399 00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:17,119 you didn't change my point of view or my perspective 400 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,880 or my belief system, but I understand where you're coming 401 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,960 from and I can get a better feeling that you 402 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,279 have a developed point of view as well. I may 403 00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:29,400 not agree with it, but you have a right to 404 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,119 your point of view, just like I have a right 405 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,599 to my point of view. And so hopefully we can 406 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,759 model civility as we go forward. 407 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: A little less than two hundred and fifty years ago, 408 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,000 and please don't make me do the math. You should 409 00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:43,759 never never have a reporter do the math or an 410 00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:47,319 English major, that's for sure. But a little less than 411 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,440 two hundred and fifty years ago, there are some brilliant 412 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:56,920 men who sat in a very very warm building in 413 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:03,079 Philadelphia in seventeen eight, and they, like you just said, 414 00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:05,759 they had a lot of arguments. They had a lot 415 00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:09,799 of debates. They were debating over what kind of government 416 00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:15,279 that they would be, in effect delivering to their fellow citizens. 417 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,839 They're fellow Americans. Yes, and I believe it has been said, 418 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,039 whether he said it or not, I think it's great. 419 00:26:23,079 --> 00:26:26,440 But Benjamin Franklin walked out after they finished up, and 420 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,440 he was asked by a woman, doctor Franklin, what kind 421 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,960 of government have you given us? And he said, a 422 00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:39,079 republic if you can keep it. What are the threats now? 423 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,200 The biggest threats to that constitutional republic that those geniuses 424 00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:47,119 put together nearly two hundred and fifty years ago. 425 00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 2: I think the biggest threats are from the inside. I'm 426 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,880 I think the biggest threats to our keeping our republic 427 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,079 and making it more perfect are when we stop believing 428 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,920 that it can be more perfect, We stop believing that 429 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,160 it's worth fighting for, working for. You know, it's worth 430 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,240 the effort to think through issues, to listen to another perspective. 431 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:19,200 I'm you know, I don't see you know, the threats 432 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,839 coming from outside in the same way. Certainly there's threats 433 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:25,799 that we face. I get that, But I see the 434 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,680 greatest threat of any civilization or any society is when 435 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,839 the people that are part of it just don't feel 436 00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:38,240 like it's important enough for them to really work on. 437 00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:44,160 And you'll find that in different institutions, different businesses, different charities, 438 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,759 you know, churches, whatever, you know, it just kind of 439 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,920 falls apart because the people that were on the inside 440 00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:57,279 didn't do the work necessary, didn't challenge themselves, didn't dream 441 00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:00,799 big enough. And so I would come back to say, 442 00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:06,359 our risk is internally is from the inside. So how 443 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,759 do we help Americans dream about what America can be? 444 00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:18,480 And how do we create those dreams and those aspirations 445 00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:24,279 and those goals based on those, in Frederick Douglas Douglas's words, 446 00:28:24,319 --> 00:28:29,440 saving principles that we found in the Declaration and in 447 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,640 that structure that we was established by the Constitution. If 448 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,200 we go back to that incredible thinking, as you said, 449 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:40,960 we have so much to build on. We don't need 450 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,359 to recreate that wheel. What we need to do is say, 451 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,359 how are we going to make the next fifty years 452 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,640 dramatically better than the last fifty years, and what are 453 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,319 the things we need to work on together? Because this country, 454 00:28:53,839 --> 00:28:59,119 this republic, is worth the effort. It's worth the time 455 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,519 and the talent and the treasure that it's going to 456 00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:07,880 take for us to come together and move forward. And 457 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,640 we'll go a little left, we'll go a little right, 458 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,160 we'll go a little up, we'll go a little down. 459 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,920 It's never going to be a straight simple pathway. The 460 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,480 path to success is never simple or straightforward. So we're 461 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,880 going to have those bumps in the road, and maybe 462 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,559 we'll drift again. I hope we limit that. But if 463 00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:28,680 we can say to ourselves, this is worth working on. 464 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,440 This is worth the time and attention that it takes. 465 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,799 Because as we look through history and we look around 466 00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:40,440 the world, America is a shining example of what people 467 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,599 can do when they come around these powerful ideas. 468 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you and your father, 469 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,119 but it seems to me that free markets, free people 470 00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:53,319 is central to what your father was about and what 471 00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:59,960 you continue in his legacy and building your own these years. 472 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:04,720 Say you know that that relies on the American system, 473 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,559 free enterprise, free markets, Like we talked about, a capitalist structure. 474 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:17,640 What do you think about the turn, particularly from younger Americans, 475 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,279 away from that system and into socialism in some cases, 476 00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:29,039 you know, just Marxism. I speak directly of some some 477 00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:32,200 recent events in New York City. Certainly, you know the 478 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,960 mayor of the incoming mayor of New York City is 479 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,400 an avowed socialist with socialist principles. What do what do 480 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,559 you see from you know, coming from all of that. 481 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,559 Speaker 2: Well, you know, first of all, I always kind of 482 00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:52,880 find it a little it's troubling, uh And every time 483 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:56,559 somebody espousing those ideas as well, it's never worked before, 484 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,720 and it's never worked anywhere else. But this time we're 485 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,519 going to do it. Time it's going to work, you know, 486 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,160 And that's why I would come back to Free Enterprise 487 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,119 and say, well, that system has been proven to work 488 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,119 throughout time and around the world, you know, and it's 489 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,279 worked pretty well here. Why don't we just have the debate. 490 00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:17,559 Why don't we just have that conversation? And so many times, 491 00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:22,359 you know, people will jump to their frustration that their 492 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,400 their personal situation and hope somebody else will fix it. 493 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,559 And we have found in life and over time that 494 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,160 just doesn't happen. You have the capability and the capacity 495 00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:42,759 to help yourself, and why would you do something or 496 00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:45,640 why would you allow somebody else to do something for 497 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,519 you that you can do for yourself. Will you fail absolutely, 498 00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:55,480 will you struggle, absolutely, But when you take that step 499 00:31:55,599 --> 00:32:00,519 forward and you achieve a goal, will you be satisfied. Absolutely, 500 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:08,160 You'll have that satisfaction, that glow that from the inside 501 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,839 out that you've accomplished something that you're starting to live 502 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,960 your life with purpose and meaning. So I think we 503 00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:16,319 need to continue to sell Free Enterprise. That was one 504 00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:20,079 of my dad's speeches selling America is talk about these 505 00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:22,200 systems and what it's accomplished. One of the things he 506 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,680 did in the book, and again it was fifty years ago, 507 00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:27,240 so he was comparing it to Russia. Just look at 508 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,319 our economic output, look at the quality of life, look 509 00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:32,839 at the advances in medicine that we've been able to 510 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,519 achieve here. And he compared it to Russia at that 511 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,160 time and say, if we wanted to match Russia, we 512 00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:40,880 need to get rid of you know, half of our cars, 513 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,319 half of our single family homes, you know, whatever the 514 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,200 whatever the right statistics were, but you'd have to dramatically 515 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,839 reduce the quality of life and the production of America 516 00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:55,200 to match what other people would say was the greatest 517 00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:59,680 system going forward. It isn't by any measure. It never 518 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,279 stands up. And so we need to stand up call 519 00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:04,559 for free enterprise, and we need to understand that free 520 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,720 enterprise it is an economic system. But it's not only that. 521 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,359 It really speaks to the entrepreneurial spirit that we all have. 522 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,680 And so there's a lot of people I know in 523 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,519 our community who are incredible free enterprise people. They do 524 00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:22,960 it with the school they started, they do it with 525 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,000 a charity that they started, they do it with a 526 00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:28,160 church that they're involved with. They do it with a 527 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,480 neighborhood association that they got into they're coaching. These are 528 00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:35,920 people that take this idea of free enterprise and understand 529 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,720 it's not limited just in an economic sense. And so 530 00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:46,160 when you broaden your perspective and you get real about 531 00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:52,119 comparing it to other systems, you'll soon recognize that we 532 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,920 were created and with the ability to create things. And 533 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,920 one of the things that we can create is, well, 534 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,039 he is prosperity. We can do that, and if it's 535 00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:07,480 not working for somebody, then how do we help them 536 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,519 figure out how to make it work for them so 537 00:34:10,559 --> 00:34:12,840 that they can enjoy that prosperity too. But it's going 538 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,880 to take work, and if someone's unwilling to do the work, 539 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,400 it will be a challenge. But I think we have 540 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:24,320 to continue to advocate powerflee and never be ashamed of 541 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,719 the free enterprise system and all the advances that it's 542 00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:31,119 added to our quality of life and the prosperity of 543 00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,480 our nation. And with that prosperity, you have the ability 544 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,079 to be generous to others. You know. That's one of 545 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:40,079 the things Dad always talked about is you know, he 546 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,559 was recognized for being a great philanthropist, and he would 547 00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:45,960 say often says, well, you can't be a great philanthropist 548 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,360 without having a great business. You know, you better be 549 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,079 able to create income if you want to share it, 550 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,920 and certainly we should share it. Certainly, America is the 551 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:03,400 most generous country in the world, dramatically in the philanthropy 552 00:35:03,519 --> 00:35:06,920 and the amount of money that's given away in America 553 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,360 every year. So those things go hand in hand, and 554 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,440 so it's it's taking the time to make the comparison, 555 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,320 to talk really, to really talk about it, and to 556 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,559 be proud of capitalism, of free enterprise and what it 557 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:25,239 does in the lives of people throughout our country and 558 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:25,920 around the world. 559 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,559 Speaker 1: I think the digital age, and this is not a 560 00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:33,519 controversial statement by any means, has been a huge boot 561 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,719 for society, particularly the West. I think it has presented 562 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,800 its challenge, its share of challenges too. I think part 563 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,599 of that is it's taken away our rugged individualism. And 564 00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:54,639 you know, I'm not I'm not casting any stones and 565 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,599 glasshouses here. You know, my dad used to do all 566 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,119 of the plumbing and the work around the house. I 567 00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:05,679 call out for that now because I never did have 568 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,920 a talent for that kind of thing. But you know, 569 00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:12,760 he probably if he were with us, he would say, yeah, 570 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,639 you should have learned a little bit more, you should 571 00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:15,119 have paid. 572 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,519 Speaker 2: Attention to it. 573 00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:20,159 Speaker 1: But with all of that said, you know, we've talked 574 00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:26,760 a lot about the challenges and you know the problems 575 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,159 that we face. What do you think the opportunities are 576 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,199 as we move forward? And I say that in the 577 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:40,480 digital age light, are you concerned about artificial intelligence? Are 578 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,360 you concerned about you know, the as we've had for 579 00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:47,880 many years, the shifts of where the jobs are, where 580 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,000 the economy is going. Does that concern you? 581 00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:54,119 Speaker 2: I don't know that. I'd say it concerns me. I'd 582 00:36:54,119 --> 00:36:56,760 say it's an issue that needs to be addressed and 583 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,480 dealt with. I think the future is on agable. I 584 00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:04,599 think we can't even we can't even dream of what 585 00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:07,559 the future can be and how good it can be. 586 00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:13,559 And we need to be engaged in technology with whatever 587 00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:16,239 the technology tools are that are being developed, so that 588 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,199 we can use these tools in the right way. And 589 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,039 so I'll pick a little bit on social media that 590 00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:28,480 when it came, and I'll blame myself when it was 591 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,599 being developed in impacting our society. As a parent, I 592 00:37:35,639 --> 00:37:37,639 didn't know what to tell my children. I didn't know 593 00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:40,320 what it was they were doing it. I didn't know 594 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,519 the impact it was having. But you see people now 595 00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:45,559 and trying to find their way around and say, what 596 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:46,760 are we going to do with this? How are we 597 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,039 going to bend the curve a little bit so that 598 00:37:49,079 --> 00:37:51,000 this technology is going to be used in a positive 599 00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:53,880 or productive way and certainly not in a negative way. 600 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,079 And I think that applies to technology going forward, where 601 00:37:57,119 --> 00:37:59,920 I've heard from various organizations to say we need to 602 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,199 involved with technology so that we can make sure it's 603 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,039 used in the way that helps people, as opposed to 604 00:38:07,199 --> 00:38:10,639 use in some more sinister fashion in a way that 605 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,760 hurts people. And it's going to be displacement. There's going 606 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,239 to be a lot of disruption and displacement because of it. 607 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,280 And I would just again look to history, where as 608 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,800 you said, you know, I'm right with you, Matt. I'm 609 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,599 not that handy around the house either. I haven't learned 610 00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:28,119 some of those skills. I'm sure my father would be, 611 00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:30,679 you know, we would want to have taught me that 612 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,760 a little bit more, or maybe I should have listened 613 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:33,480 a little bit more. 614 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: That's my issue. 615 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I should have I should have listened more. But 616 00:38:38,559 --> 00:38:40,880 if you look through history, we found our ways through 617 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,480 when we when we were primarily in the agriculture economy. 618 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,159 We found your way to an industrial economy, we found 619 00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:50,239 a way into a technology economy, and I think we 620 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,239 find our way. I think the ability for us to 621 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:59,079 know to work through challenges or work through disruption to find, 622 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,719 you know, the next way forward will be a challenge, 623 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,880 but it's a challenge that we can address and a 624 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,199 chalente that we can overcome. 625 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,159 Speaker 1: Final question, I'm sorry, go ahead, No. 626 00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 2: No, I think we can so, yes, I think about it, 627 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,280 but I think I think we want to embrace We 628 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:16,960 want to embrace technology. We want to figure out how 629 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:17,800 to use it the right way. 630 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,199 Speaker 1: Final question for you, and that is this keeping the 631 00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:30,280 Constitution in mind, those extremely enlightened individuals in that hot room, 632 00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:33,480 you know, nearly two hundred and fifty years ago, what 633 00:39:33,559 --> 00:39:38,559 do you think they would say about the America two 634 00:39:38,639 --> 00:39:43,079 hundred and fifty years in the America that they founded. 635 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,119 Speaker 2: Well, what a great question, you know. Well, I wish 636 00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:51,639 I would could have been in that room. I wish 637 00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:54,320 I could have heard some of those discussions of what 638 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,000 they were hoping for. And I've got to believe that 639 00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:01,679 on the whole they would be you know, they would 640 00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:07,360 be pleased, but they would probably want to challenge us 641 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,519 to be better. I think those words are more perfect 642 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:13,719 were chosen for a good reason. And at the at 643 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,000 the National Constitution Center, they go back in some of 644 00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:22,480 the early early drafts of the Constitution where it didn't 645 00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:24,920 say we the people of the United States of America, 646 00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:28,079 said we the people of the states of Massachusetts or 647 00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:30,639 you know all the you know the states that were 648 00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:33,840 there because we the people of the United States of 649 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,199 America and in order to form that more perfect union. 650 00:40:39,039 --> 00:40:41,599 I think they would know that we would make mistakes 651 00:40:43,159 --> 00:40:47,400 and that we would stumble in some ways, but I 652 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,480 would I would think that they would encourage us to 653 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,159 keep this experiment going and make it better. I think 654 00:40:56,159 --> 00:41:02,280 they would encourage us to find the the right pathway forward. 655 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,559 I think they'd be cheering for us, and sure, like 656 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,440 you know, like generations before, they might shake their heads 657 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,280 at some of the things that we've done, you know, 658 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,800 some of the things that where we drifted away, But 659 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,039 I think they would encourage us to come back and 660 00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:21,960 build on the principles that they put in place, because 661 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,760 those principles were saving principles. They were timeless and if 662 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,159 we would take the time and attention to focus on them, 663 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,920 I think they would say, we can make this country 664 00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:36,559 more perfect, you know, going forward in the next fifty years, 665 00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:37,760 and that's what we should try to do. 666 00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:41,679 Speaker 1: I think they might also say, what are these screens 667 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,559 and why are there images of people on there? And 668 00:41:44,559 --> 00:41:46,760 they would say things like that. I think they would 669 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,000 be you know, the scientific minds like Franklin and Jefferson 670 00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:53,280 in particular, would be astounded by, you know what their 671 00:41:53,320 --> 00:42:00,599 progeny that's created over the years. Well, a fascinating conversation 672 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,280 on a fascinating nation, a republic if you can keep it. 673 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,920 And just a final point on that, Doug, you know, 674 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,320 there was a time in this country where we used 675 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,880 to say the United States are. We have long since 676 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,280 said the United States is. And that's the difference. And 677 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,920 the unity question continues to be the issue that we 678 00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:25,239 strive for. 679 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, bringing us together that one nation ended. So 680 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,719 you know, it's vital that we find that pathway forward together. 681 00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: Indeed, it's all in the book by Doug's father, Rich DeVos. 682 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:44,039 Believe a timeless endorsement of American principles. The fiftieth anniversary 683 00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:46,760 can find it everywhere now thanks to my guest today, 684 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,719 Doug DeVos, American businessman and chairman of the National Constitution Center. 685 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,920 You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. 686 00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:59,039 I'm Matt Kittle, Senior elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll 687 00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:02,280 be back soon with more or until then, stay lovers 688 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:08,280 of freedom and anxious for the fray.