WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:13.720 Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join 2 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:16.280 us as we dive into the deep end of the 3 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:18.480 unexplainable world and try to piece. 4 00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:19.239 Together what happened. 5 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:55.320 If you are listening to Locations Unknown, oh what's up everybody, 6 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.880 and welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm 7 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:01.119 your co host Joey with me as always is a 8 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:03.320 guy who eats candy bars with a fork and a knife. 9 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.120 Mike Manna Bogart, Thank you, Joe, and I do not 10 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:09.200 that would be so snobby. 11 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:11.159 I never lie when I tell these, so I don't 12 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:12.079 know why you're saying that. 13 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:14.799 Well. Thank you to all of our amazing listeners for 14 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:18.560 tuning in. Good news is we're not being heavily rained 15 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:23.239 on this episode, so hopefully that background sounded annoy too 16 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:25.519 many people. That's man, I'm sure they didn't hear it 17 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:28.200 until you brought it up, probably not quickly. Like to 18 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:31.640 thank a few Patreon shoutouts, so Rachel Naggy, Loura, Rice 19 00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:37.480 Deborah Another, Christine Buzzwhiskey and Uri mun I spelled it wrong. 20 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:43.920 Uri man Lopez, thank you, yes. 21 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:50.959 Thank you for especially Christine Bozwowski Bozowski Bizowski, Mike Bozowski Okay, 22 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:54.640 well polish mons. Oh sorry, Pat, yeah, your kids. No, 23 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:55.280 we watched that. 24 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:58.799 Okay. I've just become numb to Disney movies, so I 25 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.599 just sew them out when they're not I've seen them 26 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:05.239 so many times to all of them running into each other. 27 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.439 So no, thank you so much for supporting the show. 28 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:12.080 We can't do this without you. We we're just in 29 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:15.080 a state of transition right now. So we're we're in 30 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:17.719 our new studio, but we're going to be moving locations 31 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:19.360 within our studio here soon. You know. 32 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:21.400 We're in a temporary setup. So if you're watching video, 33 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:24.680 lightings all off. Yeah, videos not great, but it's better 34 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:25.479 than nothing, right, Mike. 35 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:27.879 That's what That's what they say. That's that I keep telling. 36 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.800 So if you want to call the show, you can 37 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.080 call nine one three, You can leave a voicemail. You 38 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:37.199 can send a text message. The funnier, the better, the 39 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:39.960 you know, we'll put it on the voicemail episodes that 40 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:41.719 we do. We just released one a few weeks ago 41 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:45.360 as a special episode because we were off. Love to 42 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:48.080 hear what you think of the show. Yes, absolutely, We've 43 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.680 got some other great shows. On our network, Off the Trails, 44 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:52.680 the Widows. We know who runs this park Crime, Off 45 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:55.560 the Grid and Relish. If you want to support the show, 46 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:59.759 you can support us on Patreon, YouTube memberships, premium subscriptions, 47 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.639 on Apple Speaker. We have a store where you can 48 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:06.400 buy some stuff, hats and shirts, and I keep saying 49 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.840 we're going to add more stuff to it, but we will. 50 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:11.240 We've been moving studios, We're doing a lot of stuff. Yes, 51 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:13.800 you're building an awesome thing that's gonna get released soon. 52 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:16.199 Like a lot of big things have been happening. Yeah, 53 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:19.199 I know a lot of things are in flux. It's exciting. 54 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.439 Stay tuned, especially if you run a podcast that is. 55 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:24.879 All Yeah, I guess I will say Unknown Media Group. 56 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.159 Anyone listening out there that is a creator that does 57 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:32.360 podcasting shoot us an email if you're interested in hearing 58 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:35.960 about Unknown Media Group. So we're always looking for good 59 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:41.120 upcoming podcasts to join the network and they'll be added. Perks. Yes, 60 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.439 we can't discuss yet. Yes, there's always perks, always perks. 61 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.840 Anything else going on in your world, Joe, Nope, nope. 62 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:49.960 All right, everybody, let's gear up and get out to 63 00:03:50.039 --> 00:04:12.199 explore locations Unknown October nineteenth, twenty nineteen, an eighty six 64 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.680 year old lifelong hunter is dropped off along Divide Road 65 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:20.199 in Colorado's San Juan National Forest for a short morning 66 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.000 el hunt. He's told to follow a familiar trail down 67 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.519 to a pickup point by ten am. Around nine am, 68 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.680 a single gunshot echoes through the timber. 69 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:31.519 By ten he's gone. 70 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:36.199 Search teams, helicopters, canine units, and grid cruise comb the 71 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:40.800 aspen meadows and dense drainages but find nothing. No tracks, 72 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:44.800 no gear, no trace. Join us this week as we 73 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.319 begin the first of our mini series, The Lost Hunters 74 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:51.920 of Colorado, with the baffling disappearance of Alvi Webb. 75 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:01.439 Almost got it there. I read it. I read and 76 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:01.959 then faded. 77 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.560 I know, I read it, And the timing's always weird 78 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:07.319 when you do it live, and we don't edit on 79 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:07.839 this show. 80 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:10.399 So no, so that was live. But before you get going, 81 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:13.360 I wanted to just say that this case feels very 82 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:16.040 similar to a case we did many moons ago on 83 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.040 Tom Messick m hm, the Hunter that went missing in 84 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:21.639 New York. That was episode twelve. 85 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:25.360 Oh way back in time, yeah, way back way back 86 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:25.720 in time. 87 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:27.920 So we'll talk about the area a little bit. 88 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.480 So to understand how Alvi Webb vanished, you first have 89 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.879 to understand the shape of the country he walked in, 90 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.439 or the country he walked into. The San Juan National 91 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:38.720 Forest sprawls across more than one point eight million acres 92 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.720 of southwestern Colorado, steep, jagged, and vertical in a way 93 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:44.959 that most people from the lower elevations of the central 94 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.720 United States have never experienced. Alvi didn't disappear into the 95 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:51.040 vastness of the San Juan's at random. He vanished from 96 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.639 a very specific pocket of it by roads and trails 97 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.560 his family already knew. The main artery into the country 98 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:02.160 is I keep saying country a county, Ya, I mean 99 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.160 a country and like you know country, like yeah, country road? 100 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:08.040 You could say, is the divide road for It's so 101 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:11.360 the main artery is divide road forest road five sixty four. 102 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:12.079 We'll cut all that. 103 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.439 Out, Yeah no, we won't. A rugged, unpaved forest road 104 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.079 that rides the high ridge lines across the section of 105 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.439 the Dolores Ranger District, often exceeding nine thousand feet of 106 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:24.279 elevation for most of its length. It's a kind of 107 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:26.839 road that's passable in a pickup in dry weather and 108 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:30.079 a serious problem the moment conditions deteriorate. Sounds like the 109 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:34.000 road Ron daily, Yes, was driving absolutely a few episodes ago. 110 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:34.480 Yeah. 111 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:37.439 Branching off the divide road is a smaller spur called 112 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:41.319 Road five six four A. It's right off of five 113 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.079 sixty four. This is where the Web family set up camp, 114 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:47.079 the same spot they'd used for five consecutive years of 115 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.519 elk hunting. From the camp, at the end of five 116 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.360 six four A, the family drove Alvy out and walked 117 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.600 him approximately one hundred yards down an unnamed foot trail 118 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:59.120 that drops through timber and meadow country before eventually connecting 119 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.040 with Roaring for four Road roughly two miles below. So 120 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:06.759 Roaring Fork Road it is itself an unpaved eight point 121 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:10.839 seventy five mile four service road. So picture the disappearance 122 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:14.040 zone is something close to a tilted corridor, which is 123 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.480 the spur road. A camp sitting above the Roaring Fork 124 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:20.680 Road that runs below, and an unnamed trail connects them 125 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:23.759 over roughly two miles of descending terrain, so it's kind 126 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.519 of like a little interspersed roadway. Yeah, they all connect. 127 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.439 The plan was for Alphie, excuse me, Alvi to hunt 128 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:34.279 the upper portion of that corridor near the meadow he knew, 129 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:36.519 and then he'd be picked up at the bottom of 130 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.720 the hill on the road around ten o'clock. On a map, 131 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:41.720 it's not a huge box. On the ground, it's a 132 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:43.879 very different story. So we'll talk a little bit about 133 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:47.600 the terrain. A sheriff, Nolan repeatedly described the search area 134 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.759 as mostly aspen meadows. To a listener, a meadow sounds 135 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:53.600 like a flat opening clearing, the kind of place where 136 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:56.000 a man in a bright orange vest should be visible 137 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.319 from one hundreds of yards away, And in places it 138 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.480 is aspen groves and the san Juans can feel deceptively spacious, 139 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:04.920 especially in the mid to late October, when the leaves 140 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:08.800 are down or falling. In sightlines begin between trunks open up. 141 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:12.600 That's exactly why Nolan felt confident putting searchers thirty feet 142 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:15.839 apart in grid formation. In that kind of country, you 143 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:19.040 shouldn't be able to miss a person. But the san 144 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:22.279 Juans at nine thy five hundred feet are not a park. 145 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.600 The quote unquote meadows are often sloping clearings choked with 146 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:30.759 tall grass, fallen dead woods, and hidden depressions bordered by 147 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:34.000 dense stands of spruce and fur timber. The forest floor 148 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.840 is layered with decades of pine needles, leaf litter, and 149 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:41.360 organic duff and critically, the areas cut by steep timbered 150 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:45.639 side drainages leading down towards Rowing Fork Creek the kind 151 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:47.879 of terrain features that can swallow person in a matter 152 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:50.559 of minutes once they step off the main path. So 153 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.759 a hunter stepping from one of those open aspen meadows 154 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.360 into the darker timber, over a bench, or down into 155 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:01.360 a shallow drainage could become invisibly invisible remarkably fast, even 156 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:04.879 while remaining relatively close to the trail. The ground in 157 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.159 this part of the San Juans is three dimensional in 158 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:09.960 a way that flat country people don't always appreciate like 159 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:13.120 us yeah yeah, flat, Like the flat country in Wisconsin, 160 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.120 a body below a small lip of terrain, in a 161 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.840 fold of the slope, under dead fall, or behind dense brush, 162 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.480 or in a shadowed pocket a spruce could be invisible 163 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:25.080 from thirty feet, which is exactly the grid spacing. The 164 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:30.480 searchers used the nearby trail descriptions paint a consistent picture 165 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:34.000 of the character of the country. The rough Canning trail, 166 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.399 which starts from Roaring Fork Road, just one point three 167 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.639 miles from its junction with Highway one forty five. Is 168 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.200 described as seldom used in recent years, with faint tread 169 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.960 that can be followed if one is careful. Language like 170 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:49.679 that tells you how quickly maintained trails in this area 171 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:53.679 degrade into nothing, let alone the unmanned connector path. Alvi 172 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:58.600 was walking the Onyx trail. Descriptions mentioned single track, riddled 173 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:02.519 with roots, rocks, and with constant climbing through terrain that 174 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:06.399 shifts between asp groves, scrub oak, ponderosa pine, and steep 175 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:10.120 erosion features. So a little bit about the elevation altitude. 176 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:12.720 As we said, the hunting area sits at roughly ninety 177 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:15.240 five hundred feet above sea level. That number matters more 178 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:20.279 than almost anything else. In this case, Alviweb came from Muldro, Oklahoma, 179 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:23.679 elevation roughly five hundred feet. In the span of a 180 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:26.559 couple days, he was transported to a landscape sitting nearly 181 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.559 two vertical miles above his hometown. Colorado's own hunter's education 182 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:36.159 materials are blunt about this danger. Hunting in Colorado commonly 183 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:39.440 occurs between five thy twelve thousand feet where oxygen levels 184 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.799 can drop between seventeen and thirteen percent, compared to roughly 185 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:46.600 twenty percent or twenty point nine percent at sea level. 186 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:49.919 Altitude sickness can first appear at just five thousand feet 187 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.240 and its effects only worse than his elevation increases. Colorado 188 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.399 Parks and Wildlife advises that hunters from lower altitudes should 189 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:00.120 spend a few days at higher elevation just before or 190 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.200 the hunting season to allow your body to acclimate, and 191 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:06.399 warns that altitude effects health, stamina, and the ability to 192 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:10.440 move efficiently. So now we got the weather. So October 193 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:13.679 twenty nineteen was not a normal October in Colorado. The 194 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.440 National Weather Service described this month across southern Colorado as 195 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:21.720 dominated by several unseasonably strong and cold systems, bringing early 196 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:24.600 season record cold temperatures as well as the season's first 197 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:29.240 snowfall for many locals. The Colorado Climate Center confirmed it 198 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:31.759 was the seventh coldest October in one hundred and thirty 199 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.240 one years of record, which with the mean temperature running 200 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:38.919 at six degrees below the nineteen eighty one to twenty 201 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:44.159 ten normal, it's pretty cold, pretty pretty cold. The NWS 202 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.279 Grand Junction Office noted that the strong cold front pushed 203 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.960 across western Colorado at the end of the first week, 204 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.120 producing up to eight inches of mountain snow, and the 205 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.399 remainder of October remained fairly active, with several early season 206 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.440 winter storms moving through the region. So he was in 207 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:03.960 an altadie. He's not acclimated to He's got weather kind 208 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:04.960 of against him. 209 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.519 He's i mean elderly, he is late eighties. 210 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:10.399 He is older, so any of those effects worsening, you know, 211 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.240 are not going to be as easy on his body. 212 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:15.679 So yeah, tell us a little bit about Alvi. Okay, 213 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:19.000 so his name was obviously Alvy web. We don't have 214 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:22.000 an exact date of birth, but based on the fact 215 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:25.320 that he was eighty six, with some news sources saying 216 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:28.480 he was eighty seven, his date of birth is roughly 217 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.759 nineteen thirty two to nineteen thirty three. He went missing 218 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.799 October nineteenth of twenty nineteen. He was a male. He 219 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.240 was five foot ten and one hundred and forty pounds. 220 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:41.840 He had gray, white hair. We don't know eye color, 221 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:47.000 other descriptions described in a lot of the missing person's materials. 222 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:50.159 So he was an elderly white male. Family and officials 223 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:53.440 noted he had some trouble walking long distances due to 224 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:57.159 his age. Sheriff Nolan stated he did not believe web 225 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.799 really could have walked very far given his a condition 226 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:04.919 and altitude, but his family stressed that he had no 227 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:08.159 formal disabilities and was described as very mentally alert. So 228 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:13.480 while he physically had some maybe challenges with mobility, he 229 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:18.080 was very mentally there. So okay, that was not anything 230 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.480 that they suspected in this case. Clothing gear he was 231 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:25.600 last seen in so bright orange hat, orange hunter's vest, 232 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:29.960 heavy camouflaged hunting jacket, vest worn over the jacket. He 233 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.440 had a hunting rifle, obviously he's hunting elk. He had 234 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:39.279 a few food bars, water. He he had a cell phone, 235 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:42.159 but it was turned off or the battery was dead. 236 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:46.480 It was according to report's last used on Friday, October 237 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:50.320 eighteenth of twenty nineteen, the day before he vanished, just 238 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.399 keep going, Well we can pause, you can go, No, 239 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:55.120 keep going. I'm gonna cut all this out in anyways, won't. 240 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:06.200 Locations unknown after there we gon fantastic. So he did 241 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.200 not have any overnight gear, no shelter, He had no 242 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.159 fire starting equipment, no sleeping bag, no pack. And this 243 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.919 is because this was intended to be a short morning hunt, 244 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:21.279 just for a few hours. So, you know, going in 245 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:27.240 Joe's showing pictures of Alvi, I mean he looks you know, 246 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.399 growing up hunting when I was a kid, we had 247 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:31.840 some elderly gentlemen that would come with us. He looks 248 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:34.159 just like all of them. Yeah, just like all the 249 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:37.559 guys would come hunting. But it's unfortunate. You probably should 250 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.360 carry gear, overnight gear and stuff like that hunting in 251 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:41.480 this environment. 252 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.159 Or even just emergency blanket stuff. 253 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:46.120 Like that something. But I mean they've done this for 254 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.639 many years and nothing happens, so you don't think to 255 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:53.039 bring that stuff. Yeah. Absolutely. Personality wise, so, Alvi was 256 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.039 a former school teacher. In principal, he was a man 257 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:00.879 of education, discipline, routine, and community standing. Friends all called 258 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:04.600 him just a great man in the days after his disappearance, 259 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:09.000 and people consistently this is family and friends who knew 260 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.639 him and interacted with him a lot described him as 261 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:15.600 mentally sharp, very alert, and fully independent despite his age, 262 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.320 and the fact that his family trusted him to hunt 263 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.440 alone at eighty six really speaks to the confidence and 264 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:25.879 the judgment they had in him, because sure, no disrespect 265 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:30.799 to anyone of his age. But if someone is cold, 266 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.840 if you know someone is starting to suffer from dementia 267 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.039 or Alzheimer's or something like that, you're not going to 268 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.360 let him sit alone out in the woods with a firearm. Yeah. 269 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.519 So that just goes back to the fact that he 270 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:46.039 was very sharp for his age. You know, I've known 271 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.519 family members that eighty six is getting up there. It's 272 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:51.840 getting up there, and some family members in the past 273 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.480 were not all with it, but then others. I had 274 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.879 a family member lived to one hundred and one and 275 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.720 she was with it almost until the end, which is 276 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.519 really impressive. That is super impressive because I know people 277 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:03.440 our age that aren't with it. 278 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:08.080 Yeah, I think I know those same people. 279 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:13.120 Yeah. So he was a kind person. Like I said, 280 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:17.159 people called him Papa, and he was kind of the 281 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.799 patriarch of the annual hunting traditions. So he was the 282 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.679 head honcho of the hunting party, which is pretty typical 283 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:27.720 guys like him with you know, probably his sons and 284 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.960 their grandsons. And he's got every. 285 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.159 Type of overall you can imagine, he's learning like the 286 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.320 everyone's a huge I mean, he literally is like a 287 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:39.440 stereotypical paupaw. Yeah, he's hunting elk in the mountains. Yeah, 288 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.759 he's an overhaul overall. Yeah, he likes him. It's a 289 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.200 nice picture of him, and I'm guessing like your granddaughter 290 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:45.720 or something. 291 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:48.960 Yeah. No, he looks like a fun guy. Yeah, he 292 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.679 seems really cool and everyone probably be lucky to have 293 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.039 a grandpa like that. Medical issues, like I said, no 294 00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:00.039 cognitive disabilities to mention impairments were publicly disco disclosed. The 295 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.359 only physical note was age related difficulty walking long distances 296 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.599 and a lack of altitude acclamations. So, like Joe had 297 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.480 mentioned earlier, he's his body's used to five hundred feet 298 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.480 of elevation in Oklahoma, and now all of a sudden, 299 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:17.599 he's at ninety five hundred feet. I remember going skiing 300 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:19.880 out in Colorado. In the first like two days we 301 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.400 were there, I was dying. Yeah. 302 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.400 It can like just make you feel like crap. Yeah, 303 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.680 you just you don't feel right. But you get used 304 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.759 to it, you do get used to occupation hobby. Like 305 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:33.039 I said, retired school teacher and principle, he was a 306 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.640 lifelong hunter, specifically hunting elk in Colorado in the high country, 307 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.559 and like I said, This was an annual family tradition, 308 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.680 so not just a casual one off hunting trip. Experience 309 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:49.200 in wilderness very significant. He was an experienced lifelong hunter 310 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:51.759 who had been making annual trips from Oklahoma to Colorado 311 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.400 mountains for years. He was very comfortable in the back 312 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:58.200 country camping, rifle hunting, and operating in remote forest terrain. 313 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:03.000 He was, though not described as a survivalist, mountaineer or 314 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.480 backcountry trucker. His hunting style, obviously by this age, was 315 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.680 sitting and just sitting there and waiting for the animals 316 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:11.680 to be driven to him. 317 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.599 But still, he's been up there a lot, and he 318 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.160 knows what it's like, what the experience is, so pretty 319 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.039 experience and experience in this location is very high. Him 320 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.480 and his family have hunted in the same area for 321 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.839 five consecutive years. At this point, they've camped at the 322 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:34.200 same spot along Road five six four A, and the 323 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:37.079 morning he disappeared, he was positioned near a meadow where 324 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:39.759 he had hunted the year before, so, by every account, 325 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.279 very familiar with this location. It was not unknown country 326 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.759 to him, so he knew everything about the area. So 327 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:54.160 we'll jump right into timeline. So we'll start Friday, October 328 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:57.000 eighteenth of twenty nineteen, so this would be the day before, 329 00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:59.759 so this would actually be the last time he used 330 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.240 his cell phone, and at some point after that final use, 331 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.559 the phone either powered off or its battery died. Investigators 332 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.079 would later attempt to repeatedly ping the device for a signal, 333 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:16.079 but never received one. It's now Saturday, October twenty ninth 334 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:18.920 or October nineteenth of twenty nineteen, so this would be 335 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:24.519 the day he disappeared, so it's morning. It's Saturday, October nineteenth. 336 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.960 The hunting party drove Elvie out from camp and walked 337 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.119 him approximately one hundred yards down an unnamed trail at 338 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.599 the end of Road five to six four A. So 339 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.279 they left him alone to hunt near a meadow where he, 340 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.640 like I said, hunted successfully the previous year, a familiar 341 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:45.839 comfortable spot, and like Joe said, this unnamed trail eventually 342 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.119 connects with Roaring Fork Road, which was Forest Road four 343 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:52.880 thirty five, about two miles downhill. So before leaving, the 344 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.240 family made a clear plan, so, as a family member 345 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.759 later recounted to investigators, they told him, now we'll pick 346 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:01.599 you up at the bottom of the hill on the 347 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:05.640 road around ten o'clock, and like I said, alv was 348 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:09.839 dressed in hive visibility clothing that most hunters wear if 349 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.279 you're hunting deer, especially in Wisconsin, you wear just complete 350 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:17.480 blaze orange and that you don't want to get shot 351 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:19.599 by someone else. So he was in bright orange hat, 352 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.960 bright orange hunter's vest with a camouflage jacket under it. 353 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:24.880 He had a little bit of food, but really no 354 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:30.799 survival gear at all. So nine am rolls around. Members 355 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.839 of the hunting party heard a single gunshot come from 356 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.359 the general direction where alv was left, and at the 357 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:39.839 time no one thought much of it. It was the 358 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.880 middle of elk season in an actively hunted forest, and 359 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.440 investigators would later check the area but find no evidence 360 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:50.240 of a shot animal. They didn't find blood, carcass, and 361 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.799 no signs of a kill. If you ever have gone 362 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.720 deer hunting in the Midwest or wherever you would deer hunt, 363 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.559 like opening day, it's not uncommon to hear gunshots off distance. 364 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:03.960 It's especially if you're hunting in an area that's more populated. 365 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.640 So I can imagine they heard that gunshot and they 366 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.720 didn't think anything of it. Maybe even they thought maybe 367 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:11.559 Alvie got. 368 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.319 Something I've that was gonna be my first assumptions he 369 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:16.160 shot at something. 370 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:19.440 And I will say too, when you're out in kind 371 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:21.480 of the wilderness like that and you hear a gunshot, 372 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:26.000 it might be deceivingly farther away than you think, just because, 373 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.480 especially in a mountainous environment, it could be echoing off things. 374 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:33.200 So they may have thought it was closer when in 375 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:38.920 fact it was probably someone much farther away. But interesting. Nonetheless, 376 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:43.279 it's now ten am. Same day, Alvie's son drove to 377 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.920 the agreed upon pickup spot at the bottom of the hill, 378 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:49.319 but Alvie was not there. The sun weighted, assuming his 379 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.960 father had simply run behind, But as a family member 380 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.440 later put it, they quoted, Papa didn't show up, so 381 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.960 really he was not out there very long. They dropped 382 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:04.319 him off early in the morning and by ten am 383 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:06.480 he was supposed to be picked up, so basically just 384 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:11.359 an early morning hunt three four hours. So the hunting 385 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:15.519 party almost immediately began searching the area, the trail, the meadow, 386 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:20.000 the surrounding timber. They found no sign of him, no belongings, 387 00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:24.200 no drop gear, no tracks leading to anywhere obvious. They 388 00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:27.000 checked back at the pickup location. They checked farther up 389 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.799 the trail, there was absolutely no trace of them anywhere. 390 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:35.440 And remember it was noted that he had mobility issues, 391 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:37.440 so he actually needed to be helped a little bit 392 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:41.160 when he was moving around out there, which makes it 393 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:44.960 even more strange that they didn't find anything. Yea, like, 394 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.240 no gear, nothing, crazy. Yeah, So it's now four PM, 395 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:53.119 so they've spent all days searching for him, didn't find anything. 396 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.000 Daylight is starting the fade. The family contacts the Montezuma 397 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:04.160 County Sheriff's office report him missing, and the emergency manager, 398 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:09.000 Mike Pasquin confirmed the overdue hunter report. By five PM. 399 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:12.799 A larger coordinated search mission was launched under the direction 400 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:17.599 of Montezuma County Sheriff Steve Nolan, which Joe quoted earlier 401 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:22.680