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Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join

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us as we dive into the deep end of the

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unexplainable world and try to piece.

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Speaker 2: Together what happened.

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Speaker 1: If you are listening to Locations Unknown, oh what's up everybody,

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and welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm

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your co host Joey with me as always is a

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guy who eats candy bars with a fork and a knife.

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Speaker 2: Mike Manna Bogart, Thank you, Joe, and I do not

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that would be so snobby.

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Speaker 1: I never lie when I tell these, so I don't

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know why you're saying that.

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Speaker 2: Well. Thank you to all of our amazing listeners for

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tuning in. Good news is we're not being heavily rained

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on this episode, so hopefully that background sounded annoy too

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many people. That's man, I'm sure they didn't hear it

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until you brought it up, probably not quickly. Like to

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thank a few Patreon shoutouts, so Rachel Naggy, Loura, Rice

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Deborah Another, Christine Buzzwhiskey and Uri mun I spelled it wrong.

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Uri man Lopez, thank you, yes.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for especially Christine Bozwowski Bozowski Bizowski, Mike Bozowski Okay,

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well polish mons. Oh sorry, Pat, yeah, your kids. No,

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we watched that.

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Speaker 2: Okay. I've just become numb to Disney movies, so I

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just sew them out when they're not I've seen them

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so many times to all of them running into each other.

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So no, thank you so much for supporting the show.

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We can't do this without you. We we're just in

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a state of transition right now. So we're we're in

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our new studio, but we're going to be moving locations

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within our studio here soon. You know.

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Speaker 1: We're in a temporary setup. So if you're watching video,

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lightings all off. Yeah, videos not great, but it's better

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than nothing, right, Mike.

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Speaker 2: That's what That's what they say. That's that I keep telling.

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So if you want to call the show, you can

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call nine one three, You can leave a voicemail. You

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can send a text message. The funnier, the better, the

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you know, we'll put it on the voicemail episodes that

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we do. We just released one a few weeks ago

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as a special episode because we were off. Love to

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hear what you think of the show. Yes, absolutely, We've

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got some other great shows. On our network, Off the Trails,

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the Widows. We know who runs this park Crime, Off

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the Grid and Relish. If you want to support the show,

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you can support us on Patreon, YouTube memberships, premium subscriptions,

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on Apple Speaker. We have a store where you can

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buy some stuff, hats and shirts, and I keep saying

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we're going to add more stuff to it, but we will.

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Speaker 1: We've been moving studios, We're doing a lot of stuff. Yes,

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you're building an awesome thing that's gonna get released soon.

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Like a lot of big things have been happening. Yeah,

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I know a lot of things are in flux. It's exciting.

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Stay tuned, especially if you run a podcast that is.

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Speaker 2: All Yeah, I guess I will say Unknown Media Group.

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Anyone listening out there that is a creator that does

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podcasting shoot us an email if you're interested in hearing

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about Unknown Media Group. So we're always looking for good

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upcoming podcasts to join the network and they'll be added. Perks. Yes,

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we can't discuss yet. Yes, there's always perks, always perks.

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Anything else going on in your world, Joe, Nope, nope.

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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, let's gear up and get out to

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explore locations Unknown October nineteenth, twenty nineteen, an eighty six

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year old lifelong hunter is dropped off along Divide Road

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in Colorado's San Juan National Forest for a short morning

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el hunt. He's told to follow a familiar trail down

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to a pickup point by ten am. Around nine am,

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a single gunshot echoes through the timber.

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Speaker 2: By ten he's gone.

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Speaker 1: Search teams, helicopters, canine units, and grid cruise comb the

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aspen meadows and dense drainages but find nothing. No tracks,

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no gear, no trace. Join us this week as we

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begin the first of our mini series, The Lost Hunters

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of Colorado, with the baffling disappearance of Alvi Webb.

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Speaker 2: Almost got it there. I read it. I read and

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then faded.

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Speaker 1: I know, I read it, And the timing's always weird

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when you do it live, and we don't edit on

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this show.

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Speaker 2: So no, so that was live. But before you get going,

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I wanted to just say that this case feels very

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similar to a case we did many moons ago on

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Tom Messick m hm, the Hunter that went missing in

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New York. That was episode twelve.

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Speaker 1: Oh way back in time, yeah, way back way back

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in time.

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Speaker 2: So we'll talk about the area a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So to understand how Alvi Webb vanished, you first have

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to understand the shape of the country he walked in,

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or the country he walked into. The San Juan National

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Forest sprawls across more than one point eight million acres

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of southwestern Colorado, steep, jagged, and vertical in a way

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that most people from the lower elevations of the central

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United States have never experienced. Alvi didn't disappear into the

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vastness of the San Juan's at random. He vanished from

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a very specific pocket of it by roads and trails

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his family already knew. The main artery into the country

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is I keep saying country a county, Ya, I mean

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a country and like you know country, like yeah, country road?

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You could say, is the divide road for It's so

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the main artery is divide road forest road five sixty four.

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Speaker 2: We'll cut all that.

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Speaker 1: Out, Yeah no, we won't. A rugged, unpaved forest road

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that rides the high ridge lines across the section of

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the Dolores Ranger District, often exceeding nine thousand feet of

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elevation for most of its length. It's a kind of

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road that's passable in a pickup in dry weather and

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a serious problem the moment conditions deteriorate. Sounds like the

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road Ron daily, Yes, was driving absolutely a few episodes ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Branching off the divide road is a smaller spur called

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Road five six four A. It's right off of five

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sixty four. This is where the Web family set up camp,

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the same spot they'd used for five consecutive years of

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elk hunting. From the camp, at the end of five

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six four A, the family drove Alvy out and walked

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him approximately one hundred yards down an unnamed foot trail

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that drops through timber and meadow country before eventually connecting

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with Roaring for four Road roughly two miles below. So

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Roaring Fork Road it is itself an unpaved eight point

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seventy five mile four service road. So picture the disappearance

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zone is something close to a tilted corridor, which is

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the spur road. A camp sitting above the Roaring Fork

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Road that runs below, and an unnamed trail connects them

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over roughly two miles of descending terrain, so it's kind

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of like a little interspersed roadway. Yeah, they all connect.

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The plan was for Alphie, excuse me, Alvi to hunt

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the upper portion of that corridor near the meadow he knew,

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and then he'd be picked up at the bottom of

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the hill on the road around ten o'clock. On a map,

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it's not a huge box. On the ground, it's a

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very different story. So we'll talk a little bit about

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the terrain. A sheriff, Nolan repeatedly described the search area

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as mostly aspen meadows. To a listener, a meadow sounds

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like a flat opening clearing, the kind of place where

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a man in a bright orange vest should be visible

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from one hundreds of yards away, And in places it

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is aspen groves and the san Juans can feel deceptively spacious,

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especially in the mid to late October, when the leaves

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are down or falling. In sightlines begin between trunks open up.

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That's exactly why Nolan felt confident putting searchers thirty feet

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apart in grid formation. In that kind of country, you

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shouldn't be able to miss a person. But the san

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Juans at nine thy five hundred feet are not a park.

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The quote unquote meadows are often sloping clearings choked with

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tall grass, fallen dead woods, and hidden depressions bordered by

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dense stands of spruce and fur timber. The forest floor

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is layered with decades of pine needles, leaf litter, and

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organic duff and critically, the areas cut by steep timbered

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side drainages leading down towards Rowing Fork Creek the kind

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of terrain features that can swallow person in a matter

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of minutes once they step off the main path. So

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a hunter stepping from one of those open aspen meadows

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into the darker timber, over a bench, or down into

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a shallow drainage could become invisibly invisible remarkably fast, even

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while remaining relatively close to the trail. The ground in

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this part of the San Juans is three dimensional in

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a way that flat country people don't always appreciate like

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us yeah yeah, flat, Like the flat country in Wisconsin,

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a body below a small lip of terrain, in a

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fold of the slope, under dead fall, or behind dense brush,

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or in a shadowed pocket a spruce could be invisible

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from thirty feet, which is exactly the grid spacing. The

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searchers used the nearby trail descriptions paint a consistent picture

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of the character of the country. The rough Canning trail,

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which starts from Roaring Fork Road, just one point three

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miles from its junction with Highway one forty five. Is

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described as seldom used in recent years, with faint tread

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that can be followed if one is careful. Language like

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that tells you how quickly maintained trails in this area

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degrade into nothing, let alone the unmanned connector path. Alvi

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was walking the Onyx trail. Descriptions mentioned single track, riddled

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with roots, rocks, and with constant climbing through terrain that

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shifts between asp groves, scrub oak, ponderosa pine, and steep

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erosion features. So a little bit about the elevation altitude.

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As we said, the hunting area sits at roughly ninety

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five hundred feet above sea level. That number matters more

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than almost anything else. In this case, Alviweb came from Muldro, Oklahoma,

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elevation roughly five hundred feet. In the span of a

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couple days, he was transported to a landscape sitting nearly

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two vertical miles above his hometown. Colorado's own hunter's education

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materials are blunt about this danger. Hunting in Colorado commonly

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occurs between five thy twelve thousand feet where oxygen levels

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can drop between seventeen and thirteen percent, compared to roughly

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twenty percent or twenty point nine percent at sea level.

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Altitude sickness can first appear at just five thousand feet

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and its effects only worse than his elevation increases. Colorado

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Parks and Wildlife advises that hunters from lower altitudes should

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spend a few days at higher elevation just before or

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the hunting season to allow your body to acclimate, and

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warns that altitude effects health, stamina, and the ability to

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move efficiently. So now we got the weather. So October

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twenty nineteen was not a normal October in Colorado. The

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National Weather Service described this month across southern Colorado as

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dominated by several unseasonably strong and cold systems, bringing early

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season record cold temperatures as well as the season's first

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snowfall for many locals. The Colorado Climate Center confirmed it

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was the seventh coldest October in one hundred and thirty

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one years of record, which with the mean temperature running

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at six degrees below the nineteen eighty one to twenty

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ten normal, it's pretty cold, pretty pretty cold. The NWS

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Grand Junction Office noted that the strong cold front pushed

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across western Colorado at the end of the first week,

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producing up to eight inches of mountain snow, and the

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remainder of October remained fairly active, with several early season

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winter storms moving through the region. So he was in

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an altadie. He's not acclimated to He's got weather kind

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of against him.

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Speaker 2: He's i mean elderly, he is late eighties.

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Speaker 1: He is older, so any of those effects worsening, you know,

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are not going to be as easy on his body.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, tell us a little bit about Alvi. Okay,

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so his name was obviously Alvy web. We don't have

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an exact date of birth, but based on the fact

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that he was eighty six, with some news sources saying

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he was eighty seven, his date of birth is roughly

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nineteen thirty two to nineteen thirty three. He went missing

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October nineteenth of twenty nineteen. He was a male. He

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was five foot ten and one hundred and forty pounds.

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He had gray, white hair. We don't know eye color,

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other descriptions described in a lot of the missing person's materials.

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So he was an elderly white male. Family and officials

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noted he had some trouble walking long distances due to

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his age. Sheriff Nolan stated he did not believe web

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really could have walked very far given his a condition

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and altitude, but his family stressed that he had no

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formal disabilities and was described as very mentally alert. So

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while he physically had some maybe challenges with mobility, he

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was very mentally there. So okay, that was not anything

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that they suspected in this case. Clothing gear he was

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last seen in so bright orange hat, orange hunter's vest,

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heavy camouflaged hunting jacket, vest worn over the jacket. He

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had a hunting rifle, obviously he's hunting elk. He had

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a few food bars, water. He he had a cell phone,

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but it was turned off or the battery was dead.

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It was according to report's last used on Friday, October

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eighteenth of twenty nineteen, the day before he vanished, just

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keep going, Well we can pause, you can go, No,

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keep going. I'm gonna cut all this out in anyways, won't.

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Locations unknown after there we gon fantastic. So he did

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not have any overnight gear, no shelter, He had no

242
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fire starting equipment, no sleeping bag, no pack. And this

243
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,919
is because this was intended to be a short morning hunt,

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just for a few hours. So, you know, going in

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Joe's showing pictures of Alvi, I mean he looks you know,

246
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,399
growing up hunting when I was a kid, we had

247
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some elderly gentlemen that would come with us. He looks

248
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just like all of them. Yeah, just like all the

249
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guys would come hunting. But it's unfortunate. You probably should

250
00:14:37,639 --> 00:14:40,360
carry gear, overnight gear and stuff like that hunting in

251
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this environment.

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Speaker 1: Or even just emergency blanket stuff.

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Speaker 2: Like that something. But I mean they've done this for

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many years and nothing happens, so you don't think to

255
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bring that stuff. Yeah. Absolutely. Personality wise, so, Alvi was

256
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a former school teacher. In principal, he was a man

257
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of education, discipline, routine, and community standing. Friends all called

258
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him just a great man in the days after his disappearance,

259
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and people consistently this is family and friends who knew

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him and interacted with him a lot described him as

261
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mentally sharp, very alert, and fully independent despite his age,

262
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and the fact that his family trusted him to hunt

263
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alone at eighty six really speaks to the confidence and

264
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the judgment they had in him, because sure, no disrespect

265
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to anyone of his age. But if someone is cold,

266
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,840
if you know someone is starting to suffer from dementia

267
00:15:33,919 --> 00:15:36,039
or Alzheimer's or something like that, you're not going to

268
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let him sit alone out in the woods with a firearm. Yeah.

269
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So that just goes back to the fact that he

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was very sharp for his age. You know, I've known

271
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family members that eighty six is getting up there. It's

272
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getting up there, and some family members in the past

273
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were not all with it, but then others. I had

274
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a family member lived to one hundred and one and

275
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she was with it almost until the end, which is

276
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really impressive. That is super impressive because I know people

277
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our age that aren't with it.

278
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I know those same people.

279
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Speaker 2: Yeah. So he was a kind person. Like I said,

280
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people called him Papa, and he was kind of the

281
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patriarch of the annual hunting traditions. So he was the

282
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head honcho of the hunting party, which is pretty typical

283
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,720
guys like him with you know, probably his sons and

284
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their grandsons. And he's got every.

285
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Speaker 1: Type of overall you can imagine, he's learning like the

286
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,320
everyone's a huge I mean, he literally is like a

287
00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:39,440
stereotypical paupaw. Yeah, he's hunting elk in the mountains. Yeah,

288
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he's an overhaul overall. Yeah, he likes him. It's a

289
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,200
nice picture of him, and I'm guessing like your granddaughter

290
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or something.

291
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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, he looks like a fun guy. Yeah, he

292
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seems really cool and everyone probably be lucky to have

293
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a grandpa like that. Medical issues, like I said, no

294
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cognitive disabilities to mention impairments were publicly disco disclosed. The

295
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,359
only physical note was age related difficulty walking long distances

296
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and a lack of altitude acclamations. So, like Joe had

297
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:11,480
mentioned earlier, he's his body's used to five hundred feet

298
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,480
of elevation in Oklahoma, and now all of a sudden,

299
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he's at ninety five hundred feet. I remember going skiing

300
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out in Colorado. In the first like two days we

301
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were there, I was dying. Yeah.

302
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,400
Speaker 1: It can like just make you feel like crap. Yeah,

303
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,680
you just you don't feel right. But you get used

304
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,759
to it, you do get used to occupation hobby. Like

305
00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:33,039
I said, retired school teacher and principle, he was a

306
00:17:33,079 --> 00:17:37,640
lifelong hunter, specifically hunting elk in Colorado in the high country,

307
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and like I said, This was an annual family tradition,

308
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so not just a casual one off hunting trip. Experience

309
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,200
in wilderness very significant. He was an experienced lifelong hunter

310
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who had been making annual trips from Oklahoma to Colorado

311
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:54,400
mountains for years. He was very comfortable in the back

312
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,200
country camping, rifle hunting, and operating in remote forest terrain.

313
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He was, though not described as a survivalist, mountaineer or

314
00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:07,480
backcountry trucker. His hunting style, obviously by this age, was

315
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,680
sitting and just sitting there and waiting for the animals

316
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,680
to be driven to him.

317
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Speaker 2: But still, he's been up there a lot, and he

318
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,160
knows what it's like, what the experience is, so pretty

319
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,039
experience and experience in this location is very high. Him

320
00:18:23,039 --> 00:18:26,480
and his family have hunted in the same area for

321
00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:29,839
five consecutive years. At this point, they've camped at the

322
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,200
same spot along Road five six four A, and the

323
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,079
morning he disappeared, he was positioned near a meadow where

324
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he had hunted the year before, so, by every account,

325
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,279
very familiar with this location. It was not unknown country

326
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,759
to him, so he knew everything about the area. So

327
00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:54,160
we'll jump right into timeline. So we'll start Friday, October

328
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,000
eighteenth of twenty nineteen, so this would be the day before,

329
00:18:57,079 --> 00:18:59,759
so this would actually be the last time he used

330
00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:03,240
his cell phone, and at some point after that final use,

331
00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:07,559
the phone either powered off or its battery died. Investigators

332
00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:11,079
would later attempt to repeatedly ping the device for a signal,

333
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:16,079
but never received one. It's now Saturday, October twenty ninth

334
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,920
or October nineteenth of twenty nineteen, so this would be

335
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,519
the day he disappeared, so it's morning. It's Saturday, October nineteenth.

336
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:27,960
The hunting party drove Elvie out from camp and walked

337
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,119
him approximately one hundred yards down an unnamed trail at

338
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,599
the end of Road five to six four A. So

339
00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,279
they left him alone to hunt near a meadow where he,

340
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,640
like I said, hunted successfully the previous year, a familiar

341
00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:45,839
comfortable spot, and like Joe said, this unnamed trail eventually

342
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,119
connects with Roaring Fork Road, which was Forest Road four

343
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,880
thirty five, about two miles downhill. So before leaving, the

344
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,240
family made a clear plan, so, as a family member

345
00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:59,759
later recounted to investigators, they told him, now we'll pick

346
00:19:59,799 --> 00:20:01,599
you up at the bottom of the hill on the

347
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,640
road around ten o'clock, and like I said, alv was

348
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,839
dressed in hive visibility clothing that most hunters wear if

349
00:20:09,839 --> 00:20:13,279
you're hunting deer, especially in Wisconsin, you wear just complete

350
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:17,480
blaze orange and that you don't want to get shot

351
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:19,599
by someone else. So he was in bright orange hat,

352
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,960
bright orange hunter's vest with a camouflage jacket under it.

353
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,880
He had a little bit of food, but really no

354
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:30,799
survival gear at all. So nine am rolls around. Members

355
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:33,839
of the hunting party heard a single gunshot come from

356
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,359
the general direction where alv was left, and at the

357
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,839
time no one thought much of it. It was the

358
00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:42,880
middle of elk season in an actively hunted forest, and

359
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,440
investigators would later check the area but find no evidence

360
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,240
of a shot animal. They didn't find blood, carcass, and

361
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,799
no signs of a kill. If you ever have gone

362
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,720
deer hunting in the Midwest or wherever you would deer hunt,

363
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,559
like opening day, it's not uncommon to hear gunshots off distance.

364
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,960
It's especially if you're hunting in an area that's more populated.

365
00:21:05,079 --> 00:21:07,640
So I can imagine they heard that gunshot and they

366
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,720
didn't think anything of it. Maybe even they thought maybe

367
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:11,559
Alvie got.

368
00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:15,319
Speaker 1: Something I've that was gonna be my first assumptions he

369
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:16,160
shot at something.

370
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 2: And I will say too, when you're out in kind

371
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,480
of the wilderness like that and you hear a gunshot,

372
00:21:21,839 --> 00:21:26,000
it might be deceivingly farther away than you think, just because,

373
00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:29,480
especially in a mountainous environment, it could be echoing off things.

374
00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:33,200
So they may have thought it was closer when in

375
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,920
fact it was probably someone much farther away. But interesting. Nonetheless,

376
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,279
it's now ten am. Same day, Alvie's son drove to

377
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,920
the agreed upon pickup spot at the bottom of the hill,

378
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:49,319
but Alvie was not there. The sun weighted, assuming his

379
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,960
father had simply run behind, But as a family member

380
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,440
later put it, they quoted, Papa didn't show up, so

381
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,960
really he was not out there very long. They dropped

382
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:04,319
him off early in the morning and by ten am

383
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,480
he was supposed to be picked up, so basically just

384
00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:11,359
an early morning hunt three four hours. So the hunting

385
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,519
party almost immediately began searching the area, the trail, the meadow,

386
00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:20,000
the surrounding timber. They found no sign of him, no belongings,

387
00:22:20,079 --> 00:22:24,200
no drop gear, no tracks leading to anywhere obvious. They

388
00:22:24,279 --> 00:22:27,000
checked back at the pickup location. They checked farther up

389
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:29,799
the trail, there was absolutely no trace of them anywhere.

390
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,440
And remember it was noted that he had mobility issues,

391
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,440
so he actually needed to be helped a little bit

392
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,160
when he was moving around out there, which makes it

393
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,960
even more strange that they didn't find anything. Yea, like,

394
00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:49,240
no gear, nothing, crazy. Yeah, So it's now four PM,

395
00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:53,119
so they've spent all days searching for him, didn't find anything.

396
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:59,000
Daylight is starting the fade. The family contacts the Montezuma

397
00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:04,160
County Sheriff's office report him missing, and the emergency manager,

398
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,000
Mike Pasquin confirmed the overdue hunter report. By five PM.

399
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,799
A larger coordinated search mission was launched under the direction

400
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,599
of Montezuma County Sheriff Steve Nolan, which Joe quoted earlier

401
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,680
in the location profile. It's now Sunday, October twentieth of

402
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,519
twenty nineteen, and they actually got a dusting of snow overnight,

403
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,240
and we had a lot of people already ending up

404
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,519
in the field. So on the ground there was teams

405
00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:37,000
from the county Search and Rescue, County Sheriff's deputies, and

406
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:39,720
a canine search and rescue unit that fanned out through

407
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:42,480
the timber and aspen meadows surrounding Road five to six

408
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:46,119
four A, and there was a growing contingent of Alvi's

409
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,839
family and friends that were joining the efforts. So pre

410
00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:54,599
quick mobilization of people searching for him. They searched almost

411
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:57,200
immediately the day before, and then you've got a growing

412
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,559
presence of professional search teams now in the woods, and

413
00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:04,920
aerial assets were brought in very quick. So Colorado National

414
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,599
Guard Blackhawk helicopter worked the area from above. It was

415
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,240
joined by a Flight for Life Colorado helicopter and me

416
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,160
as a very day Civil Air Patrol fixed wing aircraft,

417
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,920
and they were all scanning the heavily wooded terrain for

418
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:20,920
any flash of Elvi's bright orange gear. All right, so

419
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:22,839
tell us what we're looking at, Joe.

420
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,079
Speaker 1: I'm not cheering yet, Okay, No, it's it's so hard

421
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:28,960
to find this, and I think I found it. I did,

422
00:24:29,079 --> 00:24:32,240
like find Divide Road and into Loris, Colorado, So I'm

423
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,480
gonna see if that will pull up.

424
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,079
Speaker 2: For those watching, I apologize. I created a really cool

425
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,519
map that had all of this easily clickable, and I

426
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:43,759
couldn't get the work. That's okay, all right, here we go.

427
00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:44,759
We're on Divide Road.

428
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: So that's five sixty four okay, and I just found

429
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,640
this one, so I'll have to try and find this

430
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:54,279
spur that they're talking five six four A. Yeah, I

431
00:24:54,279 --> 00:25:00,359
think it said it was. Uh, I'm scanned the looking,

432
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,119
so you can keep going and I'll chime in once I.

433
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: Okay, arrow it down. So obviously, like I said, it's Sunday,

434
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,839
October twentieth, we've got I.

435
00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: Mean, look at how remote it as though. Yeah, it's

436
00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:16,559
I mean you are away from everything. M hm, yeah,

437
00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:18,960
I mean this is the part of Colorado. I've actually

438
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,519
never been to the southwest area, but it's remote. If

439
00:25:23,559 --> 00:25:26,720
you zoom out, there's I'm trying to think of. I

440
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,960
think I saw it. Tell you ride okay, yeah, here's

441
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,680
tell you ride up here. Yeah, Dunton. This is where

442
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,079
I was actually in Duntin, So you have been over here.

443
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,559
I have been over I didn't. I didn't know that's

444
00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:38,319
where Dunton was.

445
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:40,039
Speaker 2: Yeah. I went there to.

446
00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: Retreat. Wow, there's done the springs, Yeah, dun hot in

447
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,359
the hot springs. I stayed right in this cabin.

448
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 2: Lucky you.

449
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll pull up some pictures and show you

450
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,680
as we're going on but it was.

451
00:25:55,839 --> 00:25:59,559
Speaker 2: I highly recommend it. It was amazing. Well, this looks

452
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:01,920
like a cool part of Colorado that I need to

453
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,640
get to. I rented. I rented a car to get here. Yeah,

454
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:11,240
I just droid the where did you come from?

455
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: I forget where we flew in? I mean if you

456
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,359
scroll out were I mean there's it might have been

457
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,279
like tell your ride. Yeah, I think it was okay,

458
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,759
looking over by Cassie to see if she heard me

459
00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:27,960
and could tell me she was there with me. Well

460
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:30,160
you got there somehow I can rented a car. I

461
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,799
rented a car and it was so much fun off

462
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,160
routing in the little rental. Just got your deposit back?

463
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,519
Speaker 2: Oh yeah I did. I didn't. I didn't blow tire

464
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:40,480
or anything. How long ago was this? Uh? Two or

465
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,839
three years ago? Okay, long enough? They can't. Yeah, they

466
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,160
can't come back at you. That's the guy. I'll I'll

467
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,799
make headlines. Will be worth it. So where was I Sunday?

468
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,079
So yeah, We've got a lot of professional search teams

469
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,079
on the ground. We've got aerial assets in the air,

470
00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:57,680
two helicopters and a fixed wing aircraft. So quite a

471
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,519
few people are now searching for him after dark we

472
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:05,160
had drones equipped with infrared cameras launched. They were hoping

473
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,160
to detect maybe a heat signature anywhere in the search grid. Unfortunately,

474
00:27:09,559 --> 00:27:12,519
there were no heat signatures consistent with a person found,

475
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:16,920
and at this time authorities continued attempting to ping his

476
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:19,839
cell phone throughout the day, but the like we said,

477
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:22,799
the phone either was turned off or ran out of battery.

478
00:27:23,839 --> 00:27:27,319
Back in eastern Oklahoma, family members and friends began circulating

479
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,640
desperate please on Facebook and social media. One family friend

480
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,559
wrote that she emailed the Today Show, NBCABCCBS Nightly News

481
00:27:35,599 --> 00:27:38,240
in an attempt to bring national attention to the search.

482
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,240
It's now Monday, October twenty first of twenty nineteen, so

483
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,359
we've now got approximately twenty five searchers in the area

484
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:52,559
doing a formal grid pattern, walking shoulder to shoulder with

485
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,240
personnel space roughly thirty feet apart. And they were doing

486
00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:58,880
this through the aspen meadows where he was last seen

487
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:04,319
between nine to nine thirty am. One of the searches

488
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,680
reported hearing what sounded like a muffled gunshot. Very interesting.

489
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,000
Teams converged on the general direction of the sound, but

490
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,680
found only signs consistent with other hunting activity and animals

491
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,559
being taken elsewhere in the forest, so no evidence connected

492
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:23,200
to the sound to him, so and they didn't find

493
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,079
any shell casings, blood, or again a trace of him.

494
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,319
So from Tuesday to Wednesday, this would be October twenty

495
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,799
second to twenty third of twenty nineteen, the ground and

496
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,880
aerial operations continued as unfortunately, a strong winter storm pushed

497
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,839
into southwestern Colorado, so snow was falling across the search area.

498
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:49,079
Overnight temperatures plunged into the low twenties. So for an

499
00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:52,039
eighty six year old guy just in a cameo jacket

500
00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:55,079
and a vest carrying only a few food bars and water,

501
00:28:56,119 --> 00:29:00,559
survival at this point in these conditions without shelter would

502
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,759
be near to impossible. And every night the search went on,

503
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:10,279
I think the realization set in that that not finding

504
00:29:10,359 --> 00:29:14,400
him like right now, might you know, might turn this

505
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,519
into a recovery effort, sadly, because even if you have

506
00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:21,640
the survival gear for conditions like that up at elevation,

507
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:25,880
that's that's some tough nights. Oh yeah, it'd be really tough. Absolutely,

508
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:31,799
So searchers continued, they cross covered ground that they'd already walked.

509
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,519
That's common. We've done many cases where searchers might have

510
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,039
searched in a specific area three four times, and then

511
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,279
two or three years later, remains are found in that

512
00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:46,839
spot that was searched three or four times yea. Or

513
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,440
they'll find an item of clothing or a boot or

514
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,920
something like that. So a lot of times searchers will

515
00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:57,519
research areas over and over again. And well that's when.

516
00:29:57,359 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: They always do training missions and areas where they know

517
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,480
people have gone missing.

518
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:03,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean you think we've probably been in

519
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:07,880
areas like this where it's in spots really thick. Yeah,

520
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,079
and you know you could miss something easily the first

521
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:14,400
second or even maybe the third time walking by it.

522
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:18,519
So not uncommon. And like I said, they were re

523
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,039
checking areas in a systematic effort to ensure nothing had

524
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:26,279
been missed. The train, according to searchers, was thoroughly combed,

525
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,599
the open meadows, the timber edges, the drainages, the steeper cuts.

526
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,079
Nothing was found. They didn't even find a single bootprint.

527
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:36,200
They didn't find a piece of gear, not even a

528
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,519
scrap of orange fabric. I mean they literally found nothing,

529
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:43,240
like he wasn't there, which is crazy. So I said,

530
00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:45,319
this is a very similar case to tom Messeick.

531
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,559
Speaker 1: All right, here's Rolling Forks Road in road Forks Creek.

532
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,720
So we've narrowed down to the area. You sharing it, Yes,

533
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:52,519
I am sharing it.

534
00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:56,359
Speaker 2: Awesome. So it's like this section, okay, as.

535
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: I zoom way out, like, look at how in the

536
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,759
middle of nowhere that is? Yeah, that is They were

537
00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:04,680
down here because they said it was where Rolling Folks

538
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:08,839
Road it meets an unnamed road and I think.

539
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: And their camp was kind of up top and it

540
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:15,039
kind of it tilted down. Yeah, so it's got to

541
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:18,799
be in this window right here. That's remote. That's so remote.

542
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,559
Speaker 1: Let's see if there's any nothing. There's not even no street.

543
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:26,000
No one took any photos. Yeah, that at least can

544
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:30,160
go to Google. Yeah, there's nothing. It is actually the

545
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,599
most I've ever seen of Yeah, look at it's only

546
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,480
out to the freeway. Like, no one's ever taken a

547
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:38,559
picture on the Divide Road or Roaring Creeks that has.

548
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,359
Speaker 2: Gotten to Google yet.

549
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: So if anyone's in the area and wants to contribute, yeah,

550
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:43,079
you'd be the first.

551
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: I always thought it would be really cool. Have you

552
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,279
ever seen one of those Google Trail backpacks? Yes?

553
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:51,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to do that.

554
00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:53,039
Speaker 2: Well, if I didn't have to work for a living,

555
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,319
it would be cool to just hike around Google backpack, Yeah,

556
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,839
hike around and just photograph all these places that are

557
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,119
obviously people go here, but relatively little traffic probably comes

558
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,279
through a lot of these places.

559
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: I would tell you that's the case, because there's no nothing, nothing.

560
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: It would be really cool to be able to like

561
00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:15,759
catalog and yeah, I don't.

562
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,799
Speaker 1: Know, I'll go to the closest one right when the

563
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,519
road turns off. This is as close as you get.

564
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: And I mean, look at that road. It gets not

565
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:26,920
too far off the road, let's see. And then right

566
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,240
down here, this is the only shot you get. Yeah,

567
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:35,279
and it just goes up there. Yeah, it's it's uh remote,

568
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:39,160
thick country. Yeah, it's cool though. I would love to

569
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,000
go hiking there. I say that every episode. Yep, just

570
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,720
gotta do it one day. It's gotta go hiking everywhere. Yeah. Right, So,

571
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,039
like I said, they have combed some of these areas

572
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:53,480
multiple times and they're not even finding a single bootprint

573
00:32:53,839 --> 00:33:00,319
gear nothing like his rifle. He has limited mobility if

574
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:04,039
he's gonna if he's probably in a situation where he

575
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:06,720
was trying to walk out. He's probably not going to

576
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:08,880
try and carry that rifle with him. That's going to

577
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,400
be a hindrance. Yeah, potentially, So they didn't even find

578
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,799
a rifle and rifles. If he dropped a rifle, that's

579
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:18,000
not going to just wash away or an animal's not

580
00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:20,480
going to take that. It's going to be there. And

581
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,920
with how remote this is, I doubt anyone else is

582
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,920
hike him through there, you know not, Yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah,

583
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,920
So sadly October twenty fourth.

584
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:32,759
Speaker 1: If they're hunters, you know, they probably like that remoteness

585
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:34,720
of that area, So no one's trapesing through.

586
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:36,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's so vad that's why you'd go

587
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,799
hunting in an area like this. It's so vast that

588
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,599
you're likely to not see anyone else.

589
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: So when we were going to dunt In Springs, there

590
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,680
were a bunch of hunters along the road we went,

591
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:49,200
and they literally just pull off and park. Yeah, and

592
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,119
then they wander off into there and that's all they'll do. Yeah,

593
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,799
it's along the whole road. But I was on like

594
00:33:56,839 --> 00:34:00,319
a main vein going to a tourist spot. You're on

595
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:01,400
like a paved highway.

596
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: Uh not in the mountain. No, it was. It was

597
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:04,759
it was rough.

598
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: It was four wheel driving and I was not in

599
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,800
a four wheel like, yeah, I ruined it and I

600
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,760
was like rally racing through there, and my wife was

601
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:14,519
like freaking out.

602
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: I was just like I was bombing through there. Like

603
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,199
that's like my my journey on the Alaska Highway and

604
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:24,760
the Nissan Ultimate that we had bottomed out a few times.

605
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this thing is just like it's got no

606
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,280
shock system left after me, I took our.

607
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:31,159
Speaker 2: Car through the car wash though before we returned it. Yeah,

608
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:34,719
I didn't do anything. Yeah, I didn't do none of that.

609
00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:41,639
So October, here, here's our cabin. Oh jeez, we go back.

610
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:43,480
Looks very rustic.

611
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,639
Speaker 1: So it's an old mining town and like old bank

612
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,079
robbers would hide out there.

613
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: Cool.

614
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: So like it's all the cabin they like restored everything,

615
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,079
but like it is gorgeous. But this is like only

616
00:34:55,119 --> 00:35:00,519
a few miles away roughly if you can. So everyone

617
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:01,639
stays in different cabins.

618
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool. It's it's cool. Imagine one hundred years

619
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:07,639
ago the Hot Springs.

620
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's like a bougie yeah, outdoor, outdoor place.

621
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: Jewel was in the room we're in just before us.

622
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,679
Speaker 1: Oh not with you, not with us, No, no, And

623
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,360
like I guess, the Kardashians were there a couple of

624
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,000
weeks ago and they rented the whole place out, so

625
00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:25,239
it's like a very bougie place. We went with a

626
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,760
professional group that we are with. I was gonna say,

627
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,920
why did you get invited? Because I'm boogie liked that mic.

628
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,760
But there's like the hiking was incredible. We got to

629
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,199
make our own tea from like the stuff we found.

630
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:36,679
Speaker 2: Wow.

631
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, go to Dunton Hot Springs. But here here's

632
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,239
a good mountaintop meadow we hiked to picnic.

633
00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: So I envision this being similar to what Alvi was

634
00:35:48,159 --> 00:35:50,719
sitting in hunting, not probably out in the open like that,

635
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,400
because when you're hunting you don't want that. It was

636
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:53,960
like in a blind Yeah, it's like.

637
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: In a location that's maybe a little more. Yeah, but

638
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,280
when I zoom out, see how there's like the clearing meadows.

639
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,239
This is a rich shop reservoir. So they would have

640
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,159
been like off these main shoots. Yeah, and there are

641
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,000
openings like look at this. Yeah, there's some significant openings,

642
00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:12,800
which I mean that makes it more mysterious. Oh yeah,

643
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,599
because it's dense in some spots, but yeah, like I've

644
00:36:16,599 --> 00:36:18,679
been through this forest now I can actually say like, yeah,

645
00:36:18,679 --> 00:36:21,719
there's some very dense areas, but there's also very open areas.

646
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. So October twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, sadly, the official

647
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,119
search was suspended. So after five intensive days of searching,

648
00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:35,639
the official operation was formally suspended. Sheriff Nolan publicly expressed

649
00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:38,679
deep frustration at the outcome. He was quoted as saying,

650
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,280
we looked all over and searched a large area thirty

651
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,440
yards at a time, but there was no sign of him,

652
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,000
no clues. We had thirty people, we had people thirty

653
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,599
feet apart, and that's mostly aspen meadows in that area.

654
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000
We cross covered areas we had already been over. We

655
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:57,039
should have found him, but there was no sign of

656
00:36:57,079 --> 00:37:02,199
him anywhere. It's frustrating nobody's finding anything. The sheriff also

657
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,519
emphasized that given his age, his limited mobility, and the

658
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:09,639
fact that he hadn't had time to acclimate to the

659
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,000
ninety five hundred foot altitude, he should not have been

660
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,880
able to walk very far from where he was dropped off,

661
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,599
making the total absence of any physical evidence deeply puzzling.

662
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,119
So this is quote directly from the sheriff that was

663
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:28,679
running the search operation. He found it incredibly strange and

664
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,360
odd that absolutely nothing was found from a gentleman who,

665
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,360
in all rights would not be able to walk more

666
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,800
than thirty feet on his own. Yeah, that's crazy. So

667
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,400
the sheriff's office stated that the official search would resume

668
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,440
immediately if any new clue surfaced, and anyone with information

669
00:37:47,559 --> 00:37:51,599
was directed to call their office at nine seven zero

670
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:54,079
five six five eight four or five to two or

671
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:57,079
their dispatch at nine seven zero five six five eight

672
00:37:57,159 --> 00:38:01,559
four five four. It's now late October early November of

673
00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:04,960
twenty nineteen. At this time, the family continued searching. So

674
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,599
after the official search was called off, his family and

675
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:11,920
friends stayed behind in the San Juan National Forest, continuing

676
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,239
the search on their own. They were walking ridgelines, checking drainages,

677
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,280
and spoke with other hunters in the area, but sadly, again,

678
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,719
they didn't find a single piece of evidence that he

679
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,920
was really even there. By November fifth, nearly twenty days

680
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,159
after the disappearance, there were advocacy groups that were starting

681
00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:34,360
to circulate his photo and case details across social media. Unfortunately,

682
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,360
heavy snow and falling temperatures across the high country were

683
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,960
rapidly closing the window for any further search efforts, and

684
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:48,000
by the end of twenty nineteen, his disappearance was noted

685
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,760
alongside that of another elderly man, Ramon Brown, who was

686
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,719
eighty six, who had also gone missing in the same

687
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,000
area in July of twenty nineteen and was likewise never found.

688
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,519
And it's just it's puzzling. Winter twenty nineteen into spring

689
00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:08,480
of twenty twenty, as winter buried the San Juan's on

690
00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:12,199
our heavy snowfall, a ground searching effectively ceased. There's no

691
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,360
way you can search in that and the divide Road

692
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,599
Roaring Fork area becomes largely inaccessible during the winter months,

693
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,119
and the case remained open with the County Sheriff's office,

694
00:39:24,119 --> 00:39:30,480
but there were no significant developments during this time. In

695
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:34,360
August twenty twenty, people started looking at the case again

696
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,199
and just the lack of physical evidence, so it's kind

697
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,880
of starting to pick up steam with the online community.

698
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:46,800
They did this grid search thirty feet apart and they

699
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:53,719
found nothing, so very interesting case. It keeps bubbling up

700
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,679
every couple of years. Twenty twenty one, it got some

701
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,440
broader coverage. People started covering it on TV shows and

702
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,280
forums like Web Sleuths. We're trying to solve it or

703
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,480
figure out what happened, and then it it really gained

704
00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:12,719
steam in September of twenty twenty five. And this so,

705
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,559
like Joe said in the beginning, we're going to do

706
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:18,320
a little mini series here of hunters that have gone

707
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:24,079
missing in Colorado. And our next episode will actually be

708
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:26,519
on a pair of Elk hunters that went missing, Andrew

709
00:40:26,519 --> 00:40:30,119
Porter and Ian Stasco in September of twenty twenty five,

710
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,719
so not very long long ago. I won't I won't

711
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,679
say anything more about the case to kind of leave

712
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:40,199
it a little mysterious. There you go again. But this

713
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,599
the case of Alvie kind of came up again when

714
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,480
these two hunters went missing, because this is something that

715
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:51,280
has happened multiple times and it's it came up again

716
00:40:52,119 --> 00:40:55,400
this spring. So our final episode of the mini series

717
00:40:55,519 --> 00:40:58,760
is going to talk about a very recent case of

718
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:05,840
a hunter was Caden Sites. And this case is so recent,

719
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,559
Joe and I made the decision we're going to let

720
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:11,800
it breathe for a few weeks and let the family

721
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,519
get closure. And before we start talking about it, so

722
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:18,199
we'll we'll talk about that case and probably.

723
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was brought to us because he was still

724
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,840
missing and we were going to cover it, and then yeah, yeah,

725
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:29,039
this active that case is very interesting, strange in my opinion,

726
00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:31,880
I don't want to get into theories because sadly, I

727
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,960
was texting with Joe the other day and I I

728
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,840
wanted to try.

729
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: And cover We wanted to cover a case that was ongoing,

730
00:41:38,039 --> 00:41:41,440
and the Caden Sites case has been ongoing for a

731
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,280
few weeks now, and as I was texting Joe, they

732
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,480
they found his remains, and so we decided we're not

733
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:53,000
going to cover it right now. We're going to wait

734
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,440
at least a month. So we'll close out the series

735
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,239
on Missing Hunters with Caiden in a month or so.

736
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,719
But his case is very interesting. Each one of these

737
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,000
cases has a different aspect. So the Alvi case we

738
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:10,920
just talked about is very mysterious. His family dropped him off.

739
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,559
He's elderly, he can't move really, he was only at

740
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:19,920
that spot for maybe four hours and then vanished off

741
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,599
the face of the earth. They found nothing, and it's

742
00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:25,360
a very remote area. There's not a lot of other

743
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:31,320
people there. What happened. So well's I guess let's get

744
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,519
into theories. So before I jump into theories, let's just recap.

745
00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:40,039
I would say the odds were stacked against Alva in

746
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:45,039
a traditional sense of conditions, and the altitude ninety five

747
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:47,400
hundred feet. He'd only been there for a few days.

748
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:51,559
He could have been suffering from altitude sickness, maybe at

749
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:57,599
his age, just general age related. Maybe his body doesn't

750
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:01,320
process oxygen as good as someone that's twenty m so

751
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,280
that could impact that could create a problem with altitude

752
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,840
sickness even quicker. Like we've said throughout the episode, he

753
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,000
had limited mobility. He's not going to be able to

754
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,760
walk very far, and especially if he's at high elevation,

755
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,480
it's having an effect on him that reduces the distance

756
00:43:18,519 --> 00:43:21,760
he can walk even further. And Joe and I but

757
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,840
from being in high altitude areas, as someone in my twenties,

758
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,639
it when you first get there, it's hard, and it's

759
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,639
even when you're young and fit, it's not easy to

760
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,000
move around, and so you get acclimated to it. So

761
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:39,880
but cell phone died, so searchers had no way of

762
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,519
pinging his phone to see maybe where his last known

763
00:43:42,559 --> 00:43:46,719
location was. It was a simple, time limited plan. He

764
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,559
was one hundred yards away from their camp and he

765
00:43:49,679 --> 00:43:52,880
was only there for a few hours and they didn't

766
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,719
find anything. Terrain. The terrain, like Joe mentioned in his

767
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:02,239
location profile, it can be deceiving, like it's not flat.

768
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,440
Little lips and things can hide hide a body or

769
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,360
something from searchers. And the weather was kind of turning hostiles.

770
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,559
So they really needed to find him like the day

771
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:18,719
he went missing, because he had no survival gear. And yeah, absolutely,

772
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,000
the longer he's in that environment, the worse the outcome

773
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:26,039
is going to be. So what are the main theories?

774
00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:28,960
And when I say main theories, you heard the quote

775
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,440
from the Sheriff's step. The Sheriff's office, they're baffled by

776
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,119
this case. Yes, they they do not know what happened

777
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:38,079
and why their team could not find and they're familiar

778
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:40,000
with the area. They're familiar with the area. They've probably

779
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:44,480
done many searches up there, and they know his situation.

780
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,360
He's elderly, can't move like he should be there. They

781
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,920
should have found him even if he had. The most

782
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,320
likely theory that a lot of people talked about is

783
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,719
medical event and exposure, so he could have suffered a

784
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,960
heart attack, a stroke. You know, he goes down in

785
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:05,239
a concealed spot, deadfall, depression, timber pocket, and then dies

786
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:10,920
from exposure as the temperatures drop. Okay, that is a

787
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,719
good theory, but you got to think at his age

788
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,079
and his mobility, there's a limited radius of where he

789
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:22,679
could have gone, and you would think searchers would be

790
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,239
all over those. Yeah, absolutely, Like they're not running. He's

791
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,000
not running. Even if he has some kind of event

792
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,159
where he's experiencing hypothermia, is starting to kind of make

793
00:45:32,159 --> 00:45:36,000
irrational decisions. He still physically just can't move that well. Yes,

794
00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:41,079
so his body is limited. Yeah, so anything that could

795
00:45:41,119 --> 00:45:44,119
have hidden a body, I feel like within a radius

796
00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:48,000
of fifty feet from where he was sitting was heavily searched,

797
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,960
I mean heavily searched. And that kind of falls into

798
00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:55,800
the second theory that he fell into concealed terrains. This

799
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,280
could be he steps off trail, possibly to reposition or

800
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,360
follow game, and falls into a steep drainage drainage or

801
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,719
over a small ledge or into a thick dead fall.

802
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,280
Then injury prevents movement and becomes hidden, and the searchers

803
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,039
didn't find him. So that's a good theory, but again

804
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:16,079
I feel like the mobility problem is they're gonna search

805
00:46:16,119 --> 00:46:19,840
any of those areas that are close by, very very thoroughly.

806
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,480
The next one is he just gets turned around up there,

807
00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:29,239
and it's altitude driven hypoxy hypoxia. It causes confusion, poor judgment.

808
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,599
He moves in the wrong direction, maybe going downhill in

809
00:46:31,679 --> 00:46:33,800
a thicker timber. There's a word for that. What is it?

810
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,400
I'm not saying it. You go, I'm like afraid to

811
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:43,480
say it now. You developed like a speaking fear say

812
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:44,079
I have.

813
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,199
Speaker 1: If we ever get really famous and do like a show,

814
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,239
people are gonna make you say it live on stage.

815
00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:51,000
I've been like, and I'm gonna reinforce that. I've been

816
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,159
shamed by so many people. I just won't say the

817
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:56,719
word it is. It is a weird platform because like,

818
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,599
you and me are still you and me. But like,

819
00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:01,400
there's ten thousands of people that listen to this, So

820
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,960
you've had like hundreds of people showing, yeah, but you've

821
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:04,800
never met before.

822
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 2: We've been doing this for almost nine years now, and.

823
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, thousands of people that hate you for saying that

824
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:09,920
you've never met.

825
00:47:10,039 --> 00:47:13,679
Speaker 2: We've received more hate which is fine. We've received more

826
00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:15,960
hate than probably a normal person would in their entire

827
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,119
life in the span of nine years. But you know

828
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:23,840
what it, I've got a thick skin, so other things

829
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,280
in life buged me less now since we started doing this. Yeah,

830
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,039
it's like you let it roll off your back. Yeah,

831
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,800
it comes with the territory. Some people like us and

832
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:37,679
some people hate us with a passion. Right. My advice

833
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,639
is just don't listen. It's free.

834
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: Just no one, yeah, just everyone stopped, all right, keep going.

835
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: Sorry.

836
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've covered the likely theories.

837
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 2: So next theory is some kind of gunshot related instant,

838
00:47:53,519 --> 00:47:57,840
so maybe accidental or self inflicted. Now, this one really

839
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,599
doesn't make sense to me. If it was self inflicted

840
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,119
or accidentally, they'd find his body, like if he was

841
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:05,079
sitting at the spot and like was like cleaning his

842
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:07,880
gun and shot himself, like he would be there. Yep,

843
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,079
they did hear that gunshot at nine am.

844
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: That's where I think, like, there's a gunshot related to

845
00:48:13,519 --> 00:48:14,360
whatever happened.

846
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't necessarily know what it is. No,

847
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,360
And being that it's hunting season out there, you're in

848
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,719
the mountains, it could be echoing it's really not at

849
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,519
all unlikely that and you know what.

850
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: Sorry to try to cut you off, because I'm just

851
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,199
thinking going through Dunton when it was hunting season, they

852
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:30,760
made us wear blaze orange and we went on our

853
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,159
hike because hey, people are hunting here. Maybe it is

854
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,119
more heavily packed. Then maybe I would imagine, like, maybe

855
00:48:38,159 --> 00:48:39,639
there's not a ton of people out there, but if

856
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:44,119
you got like four hunting parties in the area, that's

857
00:48:44,159 --> 00:48:48,400
where a gunshot wos a good precaution when you're out there.

858
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,719
I'm just trying to think of, like, Okay, was that

859
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,920
his gunshot? Because initially I'm like, well, of course it

860
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,679
was him, because if no one else in their group

861
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,119
and they're the only ones out there, I'm like, well,

862
00:48:56,119 --> 00:48:57,400
maybe there was other people out there?

863
00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: Was like a signal gunshot? Was he signaling to his

864
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,840
family that something happened? I Was he shooting at an animal? Yeah?

865
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,079
Speaker 1: I just think I can't definitively say it was his.

866
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:09,960
When I initially when you said that, I'm like, oh,

867
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,719
that was him. I wonder what that means. And I'm like, Okay,

868
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,559
I think it's a high likelihood it was, But you

869
00:49:14,599 --> 00:49:15,360
can't guarantee it.

870
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,119
Speaker 2: But the thing is they never found any evidence of

871
00:49:18,159 --> 00:49:22,559
an animal being shot or I could have missed. I'll

872
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:26,239
say this too. Now, when I've gone in the past,

873
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,960
like grouse hunting in northern Wisconsin, we've been in some

874
00:49:30,039 --> 00:49:32,800
thick openings where there's like tall grass that's kind of

875
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:37,280
been padded down, and sometimes you'll see like a shotgun

876
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:41,440
shell sitting there, and if like a shell casne has

877
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,480
been recently discharged, it's going to land on top of

878
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:49,320
the foliage and is relatively easy to see, like we'll

879
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,599
see all the time, like, oh, like somebody must have

880
00:49:51,639 --> 00:49:54,719
been here. Yeah, So the fact that searchers didn't find

881
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,840
any kind of evidence of shell casings or anything like

882
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,519
that makes you wonder how close was that gun shot

883
00:50:01,519 --> 00:50:04,119
that I heard? All Right, so I got some theories.

884
00:50:04,119 --> 00:50:07,679
I'm brilliing. Okay, So the next one is accidental shooting

885
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,880
by another hunter, so a cover up. So maybe another

886
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,320
hunter mistakenly shoots him and removes conceals the body to

887
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,719
avoid consequences. This would explain a lack of evidence. But

888
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:23,199
this requires yeah, it requires a difficult, very risky cover up.

889
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,239
With and left. They were like a pro at.

890
00:50:26,159 --> 00:50:30,119
Speaker 1: It because accidentally shooting someone wearing blaze orange and sitting still.

891
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 2: And doing it within three or four hours getting his

892
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,400
body out of there, you'd have to have a vehicle,

893
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,320
and that would leave evidence hunting stuff like, yeah, you

894
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:41,760
don't accidentally shoot him?

895
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, like like serious, no, Like I agree down a

896
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,280
road that they had to walk him down where there's

897
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,039
only one way in where they probably would have seen.

898
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: A car or even if someone was out there in

899
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,920
a four wheeler, like investigators would have seen. Yeah, those

900
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:01,039
tracks in like trained investigator is going to see those

901
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:04,280
tracks leading out of there and there would be bloody.

902
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,559
But somehow a pro managed to shoot him, conceal it,

903
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,519
clean the area up, and get him out of there

904
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:13,440
in four hours. Yeah I don't think so. Yeah, and

905
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,000
he didn't put up a fight or shoot back or anything.

906
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,519
It was one shot and they got him. And yeah,

907
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,000
I mean that's not it. There's another theory. So post

908
00:51:22,039 --> 00:51:26,000
mortem's scavenging. So this is kind of after something caused

909
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,920
his death, could have been anything. Then wildlife scatters the

910
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,119
remains in gear snow, time terrain, further obscure evidence, explaining

911
00:51:34,119 --> 00:51:37,719
why nothing has been found so many years later. Okay,

912
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,039
they didn't find any evidence of that, and like a

913
00:51:40,119 --> 00:51:42,079
hunting rifle is not going to be scavenged by an

914
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:44,880
animal that they'll leave that there. So I don't think

915
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,199
that's very plausible. We've got foul plays, so non hunting

916
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,480
related incident, so an encounter with another person leads to

917
00:51:53,519 --> 00:51:57,960
harm and concealment. Again, no evidence supported this, but it

918
00:51:58,039 --> 00:52:01,440
remains a theoretical possibility due to the lack of any

919
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:02,320
other evidence.

920
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you almost have to consider it because they have

921
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:05,320
nothing else to go on.

922
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And then we've round it out with

923
00:52:08,039 --> 00:52:13,320
the completely unlikely so intentional disappearance no, yeah, he's eighty

924
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,480
six yep, move on, Yeah, abduction, so someone abducted him.

925
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: I'd say that's more that's more plausible than intentional.

926
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: Almost. Yeah, and then we've got the missing four to

927
00:52:24,039 --> 00:52:29,320
one one unexplained phenomena. So people are speculating Bigfoot or

928
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,760
dimensional time shift.

929
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:40,639
Speaker 1: Honestly, in whatnot abduction or any missing four stuff thrown

930
00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:41,880
into the ten percent category.

931
00:52:42,039 --> 00:52:45,559
Speaker 2: Okay, so you've heard the case, You've heard the theories.

932
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: What's your what's your theory? All right, I'm gonna I'm

933
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,480
gonna take some liberties. Oh you are, I think he

934
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:56,800
shot at an animal, Yeah, thought he hit it and

935
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,719
went looking for it. Okay, and if it wasn't elk.

936
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:02,480
I mean, you're a hunter. What do animals do when

937
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:02,920
they're hit?

938
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 2: They don't stay put. They go to.

939
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:09,559
Speaker 1: Ground, usually downhill towards a river, per se. So if

940
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:13,480
he's following this thing towards a river thinking he hit it,

941
00:53:13,519 --> 00:53:16,280
looking for evidence, maybe following the trail in yeah, because

942
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,079
he's a hunter. Even if you're think about like, okay,

943
00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:22,880
let's pretend he wasn't of sound mind. Yeah, your natural instinct,

944
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,239
if you've been a hunter, your whole life is to

945
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,559
go look for the thing you shot. Yeah, it's a

946
00:53:26,559 --> 00:53:28,559
big conservation thing, you know. You don't just shoot animals

947
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:30,480
and let him die. You're gonna go find it. So

948
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:32,639
if he thinks he hit it, and he's sharp enough

949
00:53:32,679 --> 00:53:35,079
to thinks he hit it, yeah, and he's fairly mobile.

950
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,199
I think he walked off looking for an animal and

951
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,280
just simply got lost, fell maybe like stepped into one

952
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,880
of those depressions or reservoir where it didn't seem like that,

953
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:47,440
and then either injured himself to the point where he

954
00:53:47,519 --> 00:53:49,280
wasn't able to get out, and they just didn't find him.

955
00:53:49,679 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 2: I mean I think, actually I like that theory. I

956
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:57,280
would say I wouldn't call him mostly mobile. You gotta

957
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,360
think the gunshots was heard at nine am. Went to

958
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,719
pick him up at ten am, So there's an hour

959
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,679
for him to move to find that animal. Yeah, I'm

960
00:54:06,679 --> 00:54:09,079
not saying he went far, No, I'm just think trying

961
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:10,679
to think how far could he.

962
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 1: Have gone in an hour. Well, that's where I'm thinking.

963
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:18,000
If an animal runs downhill, downhill would be easier. Downhill's easier.

964
00:54:18,039 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 2: So he got saw adrenaline go and he's like, I

965
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,239
gotta find this motivation.

966
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: Gravity on his side, maybe a little mentally impaired from

967
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,199
the altitude, you know, and cold altitude you can make

968
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:31,880
poor decisions.

969
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,079
Speaker 2: He's a little dehydrated. He didn't really have a lot

970
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:34,760
of food or water.

971
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,079
Speaker 1: So, like, I really think it it like it's if

972
00:54:38,119 --> 00:54:40,360
it was his gunshot, It's like, Okay, they didn't see

973
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,840
that he hit an animal. They didn't find the casing.

974
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,559
So that's the thing too. The casing would have been

975
00:54:44,599 --> 00:54:47,920
around the spot unless he picks up his casings. There's

976
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,960
hunters that do that. Oh yeah, so they don't like,

977
00:54:50,119 --> 00:54:51,639
do you pick up your casing? So you're not leaving

978
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,840
it littered, and then he just went searching for it,

979
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,639
and they're not going to find a bullet. Like No,

980
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,519
that's that's like a one in a billion.

981
00:54:58,199 --> 00:55:01,039
Speaker 2: And the only thing I would think is, depending on

982
00:55:01,119 --> 00:55:05,000
the clearing and what type of groundcover there is, would

983
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,880
that have left any kind of track? I mean they

984
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,239
had canine units in there too.

985
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,679
Speaker 1: That Yeah, that's that's why I said, I'm taking liberties.

986
00:55:12,679 --> 00:55:14,559
But I'm just like looking at this, I mean, that's

987
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:17,400
the most logical theory that makes sense. That's kind of

988
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,800
where like it ties the gunshot and he's missing and

989
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,880
there's no sign of anything.

990
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:25,519
Speaker 2: He pretty much took everything with him looking for that animal,

991
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,519
fell into some area where the searchers didn't see him.

992
00:55:28,679 --> 00:55:31,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe got injured, blacked out, and then to come

993
00:55:31,679 --> 00:55:35,039
to the elements over the time. Unfortunately. That's that's like

994
00:55:35,119 --> 00:55:36,320
the only thing that kind of.

995
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: Pieces together a lot of the stuff and is very plausible.

996
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what I think. If not that aliens.

997
00:55:44,679 --> 00:55:50,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I do like that that theory. Oh look,

998
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,079
what are you thinking? I'm thinking it's I think, are

999
00:55:54,079 --> 00:55:57,519
you in my train? I'm on your train? What other

1000
00:55:57,559 --> 00:56:01,639
theory makes sense? There you go. Even it's like leaving

1001
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,199
your train doesn't make a lot of sense to me

1002
00:56:04,199 --> 00:56:07,159
because of his mobility issues, but it is the most logical.

1003
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,119
Speaker 1: That's the only reason I was like when I was so,

1004
00:56:09,159 --> 00:56:10,800
if you look on here, I am showing the screen.

1005
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,880
If you're watching, it's it's hilly. It's not like jagged mountainous.

1006
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,360
And granted I'm looking at.

1007
00:56:17,199 --> 00:56:19,119
Speaker 2: The three D of Google Earth, so it could be

1008
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:21,239
a little offesome. I mean it is, you know, ninety

1009
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,119
five hundred feet. It's it's high up, but it's relatively flat.

1010
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:26,840
If you're going downhill.

1011
00:56:27,079 --> 00:56:30,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be a tough uphill climb, especially for someone

1012
00:56:30,199 --> 00:56:32,360
of his age, but you got gravity work in your

1013
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,079
favor again, and animal is not going to run up

1014
00:56:34,119 --> 00:56:36,639
hill if it's injured. Yeah, so maybe he thinks it

1015
00:56:36,679 --> 00:56:38,760
went downhill. Granted he also might have not hit it,

1016
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,079
so it's going to run river the heck it wants. Yeah,

1017
00:56:41,159 --> 00:56:43,119
So there's a lot of there's a lot of holes

1018
00:56:43,159 --> 00:56:45,880
I can poke in mine. Yeah, in my theory, but

1019
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:47,599
it's the only thing I can think of.

1020
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, it's this doesn't this remind of

1021
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,320
you of the Tom Messick kiss it does, yeah, very much,

1022
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,159
because that was another hunter that literally vanished like off

1023
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,360
the face of the planet. And I would say that

1024
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,639
one's even more mysterious because he was hunting out in

1025
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:08,840
New York State, far less remote and the terrain was

1026
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:09,480
far less.

1027
00:57:09,559 --> 00:57:11,760
Speaker 1: Can we get the coordinates of each one and see

1028
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,000
if it like does a thing? Are there vies at

1029
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,599
each point they like triangulate to a vile vortices?

1030
00:57:17,719 --> 00:57:18,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? Something.

1031
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: You know what I've been watching recently Monarch. Yeah, I

1032
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:22,320
don't know what that is.

1033
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: Apple TV. It's a Godzilla show. It's actually really it's

1034
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,679
got Kurt Russell in it, and okay, it's actually really good.

1035
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: It's got Kurt Russell's got to watch it. Kurt Russell's

1036
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:33,199
in it.

1037
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:41,079
Speaker 2: But they basically have these escape from la right, they

1038
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:44,280
have basically have these these like dimensions that open up

1039
00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:49,519
around the Earth that connects Earth with the like, oh God,

1040
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,800
it comes from to mention where the Titans come from.

1041
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:52,800
They're called Titans.

1042
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: So I think that's a plausible thing on what happened here.

1043
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Monarch, Monarch, If anyone listening, it's on Apple TV.

1044
00:57:58,840 --> 00:57:59,960
It's actually pretty good show.

1045
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: You go free promo for a giant television show.

1046
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 2: On TV.

1047
00:58:06,719 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, I don't have anything else.

1048
00:58:09,559 --> 00:58:11,519
Speaker 2: I am completely baffled by this and like me to

1049
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,800
I say that sometimes when I'm not that baffled, we.

1050
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,519
Speaker 1: Have but just for showmanship.

1051
00:58:18,039 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 2: I am truly baffled by this guy. Yes, me too.

1052
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,559
Speaker 1: Well, thanks again for tuning into our show. We appreciate

1053
00:58:23,639 --> 00:58:26,400
you all for listening and sharing locations unknown with your

1054
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,559
friend's and family. Be sure to like and follow us

1055
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:31,000
on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, where you can find

1056
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,440
the videos of each episode. Also, if you'd like to

1057
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,800
support the show monetarily, please visit our website or Facebook

1058
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,760
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1059
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,519
can subscribe to our patron account, YouTube, and Apple subscriptions

1060
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:46,960
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1061
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,559
paid customers only. Lastly, when enjoying the beauty of nature,

1062
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:54,280
whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk, always remember

1063
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,880
to leave no trace. Thanks and we will see you

1064
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:06,079
all next time. By