Speaker 1: Okay, So have you ever had that feeling, you know,
when you're out in the woods, maybe hiking or camping,
or even just walking home late at night and there's
that like a primal chill that runs down your spine. Yeah,
like you just feel something else is out there watching you.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know that feels.
Speaker 1: Something unseen in the shadows.
Speaker 2: It's creepy for sure.
Speaker 1: But what if, Okay, what if that wasn't just a
fleeting moment, but the constant reality for our ancestors, Like
what if they were constantly living with that feeling of dread.
Speaker 2: I can see where you're going with us.
Speaker 1: And what if And here's the kicker, what if the
things lurking out there weren't like the animals we think
of today is dangerous, right.
Speaker 2: Like lions and tigers and bears exactly.
Speaker 1: But other beings upright, walking intelligent beings.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're talking about other humans, right, other human species.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where we're diving into today. The idea that
for a long time, our ancestors, early Homo sapiens, weren't
the top of the food chain.
Speaker 2: And they were actually preyed upon by other humans.
Speaker 1: Speed that's right, And we're going to be looking at
the sources you've gathered.
Speaker 2: Which paint a pretty wild picture.
Speaker 1: To uncover just how precarious our existence really was back then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like seriously precarious.
Speaker 1: So for a huge chunk of time, it looks like
our ancestors were hunted by other human.
Speaker 2: Species, stronger, faster, more violent.
Speaker 1: They were the underdogs, the hunted, not the hunters.
Speaker 2: Which I think is a really humbling thought.
Speaker 1: It is, right, like, it makes you question our whole
sense of human exceptionalism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're so used to being at the top. Now,
you know, the dominant species.
Speaker 1: For sure, but it seems that for tens of thousands
of years that wasn't the case at all.
Speaker 2: We were just trying to survive, constantly.
Speaker 1: On it, always looking over their shoulders.
Speaker 2: And these monsters, and I think that's an appropriate term
given how terrifying they must have seemed. Oh absolutely, they
inflicted a kind of trauma that your sources suggests may
actually be embedded in our DNA. That's wild, Like this
deep seated fear that's been passed down through generations.
Speaker 1: It makes you wonder if some of our modern anxieties,
like those irrational fears we sometimes.
Speaker 2: Have hmmm, like being afraid of the dark.
Speaker 1: Exactly, could be echoes of that ancient terror.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's deep.
Speaker 1: And here's where it gets even more mind blowing. These monsters,
these predators weren't like sabertooth tigers or giant cave bears, right.
Speaker 2: Not the usual suspects.
Speaker 1: There were other humans, other versions of us. Around fifty
thousand years ago, give or take, the Earth was a
much more like diverse place in terms of human species.
Speaker 2: It was crowded, you know. The human family tree was
full of branches.
Speaker 1: More like a human family bush maybe.
Speaker 2: Hahuh, good point.
Speaker 1: Your sources point to a few.
Speaker 2: Examples, Yeah, like the Denisovans who.
Speaker 1: Hung out in like what's now Russia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Siberia and parts of East Asia. And then you
had the Hobbits the home Old floresciensis.
Speaker 1: Tiny little humans on an island in Indonesia.
Speaker 2: It's almost hard to blieve they were real, I know, right.
And then there's Homo lusinensis in the.
Speaker 1: Philippines, another island species.
Speaker 2: It seems like islands were hot spots for weird human evolution.
Speaker 1: Makes sense isolated unique environments.
Speaker 2: And then of course there's us Homo sapiens.
Speaker 1: Out of Africa and spreading across the globe like a wave, competing, clashing,
coexisting with all these other human.
Speaker 2: Species, and one species in particular. They were like the
top dog, the apex predator of the.
Speaker 1: Human world, the Neanderthals.
Speaker 2: The Neanderthals exactly.
Speaker 1: Your sources describe them as a superhuman warrior species, and honestly.
Speaker 2: When you look at the evidence, that doesn't seem like
an exaggeration.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about what made them so formidable.
Speaker 2: Well, for starters, they were just built differently, like how
so they were much more robust, denser bones, thicker muscles.
Speaker 1: They were strong.
Speaker 2: Strong, imagine an NFL linebacker, you know, peak physical condition.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, and then multiply that by like ten Okay,
so seriously strong.
Speaker 2: Seriously strong, and fast too, at least in short birds.
Speaker 1: Ah. So they could chase down.
Speaker 2: Prey and overpower it no problem.
Speaker 1: And they were adapted to some pretty harsh environments.
Speaker 2: They evolved during multiple ice ages, so cold was their thing.
Speaker 1: But they weren't just brutes, right, Your sources mentioned they
had a sophisticated culture.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were smart, had language, they formed complex
social structures like tribes, tribes, family groups, maybe even.
Speaker 1: Villages, and tools. They were good with.
Speaker 2: Tools, sophisticated tools, weapons. They even made art and music.
Speaker 1: So not the dumb caveman stereotype at all.
Speaker 2: Nope, these guys were the real deal, and for a.
Speaker 1: Long time they were the dominant human species in Europe.
Speaker 2: Half a million years, that's how long they ruled.
Speaker 1: The roost, and their territories stretched pretty far right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, into the Middle East parts of Asia. They were
a force to be reckoned.
Speaker 1: With apex predators. They were at the top of the food.
Speaker 2: Chain and their diet was mainly meat. They were hunters,
big game hunters. They took down mammoths, wooly rhinos, ca bears.
Speaker 1: Those are some seriously dangerous animals.
Speaker 2: It shows you just how skilled and.
Speaker 1: Organized they were cooperative hunting probably.
Speaker 2: For sure, they had to work together to bring down
those giants.
Speaker 1: And this is where it gets a little unsettling. According
to your sources, their favorite prey.
Speaker 2: Yeah was us, almost sapiens, like we were on the menu.
It's a chilling thought, isn't it, to think that we
weren't just competing for resources.
Speaker 1: We were the resource.
Speaker 2: It really flips the script on our usual human centric
view of history.
Speaker 1: It does. It makes you realize that for a long time,
we were anything but exceptional.
Speaker 2: We were vulnerable, just trying to survive.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about the bigger picture, the timeline
of human evolution.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's boom out a bit.
Speaker 1: We tend to think of history as you know, ancient
Egypt to Roman Empire, right.
Speaker 2: Or even going back further, like Confucius. You mentioned him earlier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's what a couple thousand.
Speaker 2: Years, Yeah, twenty five hundred years or so for Confucius.
Speaker 1: But human evolution goes back millions of years.
Speaker 2: Millions, that's right.
Speaker 1: Your sources point out that the split from chimpanzees happened
around seven million years ago.
Speaker 2: And that gave rise to the first hominins.
Speaker 1: Hominins being like the umbrella term for all modern.
Speaker 2: Humans, extinct human species, and all our immediate ancestors to a.
Speaker 1: Huge diverse family tree.
Speaker 2: And Homo sapiens were just a recent addition to that family, showing.
Speaker 1: Up around three hundred thousand years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, relative newcomers.
Speaker 1: So for the vast majority of human history, we weren't
even around.
Speaker 2: It's mind boggling when you think.
Speaker 1: About it it is, and during that time there was
all this experimentation in the human lineage, so.
Speaker 2: Many different branches evolving.
Speaker 1: All these different ways of being human.
Speaker 2: And your sources talk about some key milestones like bipedalism
walking upright. That was huge literally and figuratively.
Speaker 1: It freed up our hands.
Speaker 2: Which allowed for tool use, carrying things. But it also
had other benefits, right, Yeah, like heat regulation. It helped
us stay cool.
Speaker 1: Oh, and it made us more energy efficient for long
distance travel.
Speaker 2: Exactly, all these advantage for a species spreading out of Africa.
Speaker 1: And early on we see this in species like Artipithecus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were still pretty ape like, but they were
walking upright.
Speaker 1: And gradually the diet shifted, incorporating more.
Speaker 2: Meat, which provided more calories, more energy, and that combined
with social structures and early.
Speaker 1: Technology, led to bigger brains exactly. We see this in
species like Austrolopithecus and paranthropists.
Speaker 2: They were getting smarter, more adaptable.
Speaker 1: That we get to Homo habilists, the tool makers.
Speaker 2: They were the first to really start using stone tools, and.
Speaker 1: Their brains were even bigger, more like ours.
Speaker 2: And then came Homo erectus, a real game changer.
Speaker 1: They were the ones who mastered fire right.
Speaker 2: Yes, fire for warmth, for cooking, for protection.
Speaker 1: They build more permanent shelters, and they were incredible hunters.
They developed more sophisticated techniques.
Speaker 2: And they were the first to migrate out.
Speaker 1: Of Africa, spreading across Asia and into Europe.
Speaker 2: A truly global species.
Speaker 1: And it's important to remember, as your sources point out,
that this wasn't a linear.
Speaker 2: From one species to the next.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was more like a bush with lots of branches.
Speaker 2: Home Erectus didn't just evolve directly into us.
Speaker 1: They branched out into numerous other species, each adapting to
their own environments.
Speaker 2: It's a much more complex picture than we often imagine.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that really emerges from this
long evolutionary journey, yeah, is the role of violence.
Speaker 2: It's a dark side of our history.
Speaker 1: But it seems that the capacity for violence became a
key survival.
Speaker 2: Skill, especially with those free.
Speaker 1: Hands from walking upright.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hands that could hold weapons, throw spears.
Speaker 1: And those larger brains they allowed for planning, strategizing, coordinating attacks.
Speaker 2: We're becoming more efficient killers.
Speaker 1: And the development of tribal structures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those social bonds allowed.
Speaker 1: For cooperation, for passing down knowledge about fighting techniques.
Speaker 2: It all contributed to this growing capacity for organized violence.
Speaker 1: Your sources highlight Homohidelbergensis as a particularly important species.
Speaker 2: They were kind of an evolutionary crossroads leading to both
Homo sapiens and the Hobbits. The Homo Flora's ansis.
Speaker 1: Which is interesting that such different species could come from
the same ancestor.
Speaker 2: It shows the power of adaptation.
Speaker 1: So for over two hundred thousand years, our planet was
a melting pot of different human species, each.
Speaker 2: With their own unique set of traits and adaptations.
Speaker 1: And it's strange to think about because we're so used
to being the only human species left.
Speaker 2: Yeah, our current situation is actually an anomaly.
Speaker 1: For most of human history, we share the Earth with others.
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder what it would be like if
those other species had survived.
Speaker 1: What would the world be like today.
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating thought experiment.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's bring it back to the Neanderthals.
Speaker 2: Those apex predators.
Speaker 1: Your sources really challenged the traditional view of them.
Speaker 2: As those you know, kind of dumb, brutish cavemen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they painted much more, uh intimidating.
Speaker 2: Picture, almost like real life orcs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good analogy.
Speaker 2: They were big, they were strong, they were fierce, and they.
Speaker 1: Were incredibly well adapted to their environment.
Speaker 2: They had to be to survive in those harsh ice
age conditions.
Speaker 1: So physically, how are they different from us?
Speaker 2: Well, for starters, they were much more robust, like bigger boned,
bigger boned, denser bones, which meant they could support more
muscle masks.
Speaker 1: And they were shorter than us, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, stockier, but don't let that fool you.
Speaker 1: They were still strong, like ridiculously strong. The sources compare
them to NFL linebackers.
Speaker 2: But even bigger and tougher.
Speaker 1: And they had those distinctive brow.
Speaker 2: Ridges, right yeah, those prominent bony ridges above the.
Speaker 1: Eyes, and their noses were wider.
Speaker 2: That was an adaptation to the cold. It helped to
warm and humidify the air they breathed, and their jaws
were powerful, built for tearing meat.
Speaker 1: And sometimes unfortunately, tearing human flesh.
Speaker 2: It's a dark part of their history.
Speaker 1: But it's important to acknowledge it. It was a.
Speaker 2: Brutal time and they were a product of their environment.
Speaker 1: So they were strong, they were adapted to the cold,
but they were also intelligent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their brains were actually bigger than ours, and they.
Speaker 1: Had language, They formed complex social groups.
Speaker 2: They were organized hunters working together to take down large prey, like.
Speaker 1: Those mammoths and rhinos we talked about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it took a lot of skill in coordination to
hunt those animals.
Speaker 1: They probably had some kind of communication.
Speaker 2: System, definitely, maybe even rudimentary language.
Speaker 1: And your sources suggest that their hunting parties were.
Speaker 2: Like small armies, highly efficient, deadly.
Speaker 1: And they viewed us Homo sapiens as just another prey animal.
Speaker 2: It's hard to wrap our minds around.
Speaker 1: That, it is, but it seems that for them we
were a source of food.
Speaker 2: And women, well they were taken for breeding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not exactly a romantic picture.
Speaker 2: No, it was a brutal reality.
Speaker 1: Forced interbreeding basically.
Speaker 2: Which is why many people today still carry Neanderthal DNA.
Speaker 1: It's a reminder of that dark chapter in our shared.
Speaker 2: History, it is, but it's also a reminder of our resilience.
Speaker 1: The fact that we survived those encounters.
Speaker 2: And eventually went on to become the eminent species.
Speaker 1: It's a testament to our adaptability and maybe a little
bit of luck. So the period of coexistence between Neanderthals
and Homo sapiens.
Speaker 2: It was a violent time.
Speaker 1: Your sources describe it as a constant state of warfare.
Speaker 2: Raids, ambushes, skirmishes, and those Neanderthals they were formidable opponents.
Imagine them, these huge, powerful figures emerging from the forest.
Speaker 1: With their thick fur and those piercing.
Speaker 2: Eyes, and their incredible strength.
Speaker 1: And a bite force that could crush bone.
Speaker 2: It must have been terrifying for our ancestors.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it was a fight for survival.
Speaker 2: And the archaeological evidence backs this up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we see signs of violence in the skeletal remains,
skull fractures, broken bones, injuries consistent with both attack and defense.
Speaker 2: It was a brutal back and forth.
Speaker 1: And those Nandithal young males, they had a lot of injuries.
Speaker 2: Their lifespan was short. A lot of them didn't make
it past forty.
Speaker 1: A testament to the harshness of their lives.
Speaker 2: And the constant threat of violence.
Speaker 1: And for a long time they were winning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for about one hundred thousand years they pushed back
against Homo sapiens.
Speaker 1: We were on the defensive, trying to hold on.
Speaker 2: And when the Neanderthals won, the spoils of war were grim.
Speaker 1: Men were often killed.
Speaker 2: And eaten, and women, as we talked about before, taken
for breeding. It's a dark picture and it's important to
understand this part of our history.
Speaker 1: It shaped who we are today.
Speaker 2: And it helps to explain why our species almost when extinct.
Speaker 1: Around eighty thousand years ago, there was a major genetic bottleneck.
Speaker 2: Our population plummeted to as few.
Speaker 1: As forty to fifty individuals according to your sources.
Speaker 2: That's a tiny number.
Speaker 1: It's incredible that we managed to recover from that.
Speaker 2: It was a close call, a near extinction event.
Speaker 1: And this bottleneck seems to have happened right when the
Neanderthals were at their strongest.
Speaker 2: Expanding their territory, dominating the Middle East.
Speaker 1: We were being push to the brink.
Speaker 2: Our ancestors were forced into.
Speaker 1: Hiding, taking sheltering caves, underground system.
Speaker 2: Like the during Kuyu complex and Turkey, which.
Speaker 1: Could hold thousands of people.
Speaker 2: It was a desperate struggle for survival.
Speaker 1: So how did we make it through, How did we
bounce back from the brink of extinction?
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't a military victory, at least not in
the traditional sense. What happened it seems that nature intervened
oh interesting. Around the same time that Neanderthals started disappearing
from the fossil record, there was a massive volcanic eruption
in what's now Italy, the companion Ignimberate eruption. That was
a big one, right huge, one of the largest in history,
and it caused a global cooling event, a sudden extreme
ice age that would.
Speaker 1: Have had a devastating impact on the.
Speaker 2: Environment, especially in the levant region where both Neanderthals and
early humans were living.
Speaker 1: What happened to them.
Speaker 2: Well, the eruption would have caused widespread die offs of animals.
Speaker 1: The animals that Neanderthals depended on.
Speaker 2: For food exactly their main food source was wiped out.
Speaker 1: And while our ancestors may have been able to survive
on a more varied diet.
Speaker 2: Or find refuge in their shelters.
Speaker 1: The Neanderthals were hit much harder.
Speaker 2: They were specialized hunters and their prey was gone.
Speaker 1: So it was a combination of factors that led to their.
Speaker 2: Decline, the volcanic eruption, climate change, and competition with us.
Speaker 1: It's a reminder that even the strongest species can be
vulnerable to external forces.
Speaker 2: And that sometimes survival comes down to luck.
Speaker 1: So the Neanderthals disappeared, but not entirely.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's the interesting thing.
Speaker 1: They left a lasting legacy in our DNA inter breeding
that forced inner breeding.
Speaker 2: We talked about it had some unexpected consequences.
Speaker 1: It turns out that some of those Neanderthal genes were beneficial.
Speaker 2: They helped us to adapt to new environments.
Speaker 1: Like the colder climates of Europe and Asia, and.
Speaker 2: They strengthened our immune systems.
Speaker 1: So even though the Neanderthals are gone, a part of
them lives on in us.
Speaker 2: It's a strange twist of fate.
Speaker 1: The species that nearly wiped us out also helped us
to thrive.
Speaker 2: It's a testament to the interconnectedness of.
Speaker 1: Life and the power of adaptation.
Speaker 2: So the Neanderthals, they were so complex, They were intelligent,
they were strong, they were brutal, and they were a
product of their time and their environment.
Speaker 1: Their story is a reminder that human evolution is not
a straight line.
Speaker 2: It's a messy, complicated process, full of twists and turns
and dead ends.
Speaker 1: And sometimes survival comes down to a combination of resilience, adaptation,
and a little bit of luck. Well, that was a
wild ride, it was, wasn't it. Going back hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 2: Of years, you have time when the world was a
very different place and.
Speaker 1: Our own survival was far from certain.
Speaker 2: It's a humbling thought, it is.
Speaker 1: And it makes you wonder what other challenges did our
ancestors face.
Speaker 2: Well, other monsters, maybe not as obvious as the.
Speaker 1: Neanderthals, lurked in the shadows.
Speaker 2: Shaping our evolution in ways were only beginning to understand.
Speaker 1: It's a reminder that the story of human evolution is
still being written.
Speaker 2: And that we're just a small part of a much
larger story.
Speaker 1: It gives your whole new perspective on what it means
to be human, doesn't it. Thanks for taking this deep
dive with me.
Speaker 2: It was my pleasure.
Speaker 1: Until next time, Keep exploring, keep questioning.
Speaker 2: And maybe keep a lookout for those monsters just in
case
Speaker 1: Uh huh, I will be curious and curious