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Speaker 1: Okay, So have you ever had that feeling, you know,

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when you're out in the woods, maybe hiking or camping,

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or even just walking home late at night and there's

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that like a primal chill that runs down your spine. Yeah,

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like you just feel something else is out there watching you.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know that feels.

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Speaker 1: Something unseen in the shadows.

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Speaker 2: It's creepy for sure.

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Speaker 1: But what if, Okay, what if that wasn't just a

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fleeting moment, but the constant reality for our ancestors, Like

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what if they were constantly living with that feeling of dread.

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Speaker 2: I can see where you're going with us.

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Speaker 1: And what if And here's the kicker, what if the

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things lurking out there weren't like the animals we think

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of today is dangerous, right.

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Speaker 2: Like lions and tigers and bears exactly.

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Speaker 1: But other beings upright, walking intelligent beings.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're talking about other humans, right, other human species.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where we're diving into today. The idea that

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for a long time, our ancestors, early Homo sapiens, weren't

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the top of the food chain.

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Speaker 2: And they were actually preyed upon by other humans.

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Speaker 1: Speed that's right, And we're going to be looking at

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the sources you've gathered.

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Speaker 2: Which paint a pretty wild picture.

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Speaker 1: To uncover just how precarious our existence really was back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like seriously precarious.

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Speaker 1: So for a huge chunk of time, it looks like

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our ancestors were hunted by other human.

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Speaker 2: Species, stronger, faster, more violent.

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Speaker 1: They were the underdogs, the hunted, not the hunters.

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Speaker 2: Which I think is a really humbling thought.

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Speaker 1: It is, right, like, it makes you question our whole

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sense of human exceptionalism.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're so used to being at the top. Now,

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you know, the dominant species.

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Speaker 1: For sure, but it seems that for tens of thousands

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of years that wasn't the case at all.

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Speaker 2: We were just trying to survive, constantly.

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Speaker 1: On it, always looking over their shoulders.

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Speaker 2: And these monsters, and I think that's an appropriate term

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given how terrifying they must have seemed. Oh absolutely, they

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inflicted a kind of trauma that your sources suggests may

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actually be embedded in our DNA. That's wild, Like this

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deep seated fear that's been passed down through generations.

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Speaker 1: It makes you wonder if some of our modern anxieties,

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like those irrational fears we sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Have hmmm, like being afraid of the dark.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, could be echoes of that ancient terror.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's deep.

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Speaker 1: And here's where it gets even more mind blowing. These monsters,

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these predators weren't like sabertooth tigers or giant cave bears, right.

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Speaker 2: Not the usual suspects.

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Speaker 1: There were other humans, other versions of us. Around fifty

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thousand years ago, give or take, the Earth was a

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much more like diverse place in terms of human species.

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Speaker 2: It was crowded, you know. The human family tree was

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full of branches.

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Speaker 1: More like a human family bush maybe.

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Speaker 2: Hahuh, good point.

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Speaker 1: Your sources point to a few.

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Speaker 2: Examples, Yeah, like the Denisovans who.

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Speaker 1: Hung out in like what's now Russia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Siberia and parts of East Asia. And then you

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had the Hobbits the home Old floresciensis.

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Speaker 1: Tiny little humans on an island in Indonesia.

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Speaker 2: It's almost hard to blieve they were real, I know, right.

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And then there's Homo lusinensis in the.

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Speaker 1: Philippines, another island species.

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Speaker 2: It seems like islands were hot spots for weird human evolution.

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Speaker 1: Makes sense isolated unique environments.

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Speaker 2: And then of course there's us Homo sapiens.

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Speaker 1: Out of Africa and spreading across the globe like a wave, competing, clashing,

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coexisting with all these other human.

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Speaker 2: Species, and one species in particular. They were like the

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top dog, the apex predator of the.

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Speaker 1: Human world, the Neanderthals.

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Speaker 2: The Neanderthals exactly.

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Speaker 1: Your sources describe them as a superhuman warrior species, and honestly.

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Speaker 2: When you look at the evidence, that doesn't seem like

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an exaggeration.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about what made them so formidable.

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Speaker 2: Well, for starters, they were just built differently, like how

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so they were much more robust, denser bones, thicker muscles.

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Speaker 1: They were strong.

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Speaker 2: Strong, imagine an NFL linebacker, you know, peak physical condition.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, and then multiply that by like ten Okay,

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so seriously strong.

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Speaker 2: Seriously strong, and fast too, at least in short birds.

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Speaker 1: Ah. So they could chase down.

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Speaker 2: Prey and overpower it no problem.

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Speaker 1: And they were adapted to some pretty harsh environments.

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Speaker 2: They evolved during multiple ice ages, so cold was their thing.

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Speaker 1: But they weren't just brutes, right, Your sources mentioned they

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had a sophisticated culture.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were smart, had language, they formed complex

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social structures like tribes, tribes, family groups, maybe even.

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Speaker 1: Villages, and tools. They were good with.

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Speaker 2: Tools, sophisticated tools, weapons. They even made art and music.

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Speaker 1: So not the dumb caveman stereotype at all.

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Speaker 2: Nope, these guys were the real deal, and for a.

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Speaker 1: Long time they were the dominant human species in Europe.

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Speaker 2: Half a million years, that's how long they ruled.

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Speaker 1: The roost, and their territories stretched pretty far right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, into the Middle East parts of Asia. They were

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a force to be reckoned.

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Speaker 1: With apex predators. They were at the top of the food.

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Speaker 2: Chain and their diet was mainly meat. They were hunters,

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big game hunters. They took down mammoths, wooly rhinos, ca bears.

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Speaker 1: Those are some seriously dangerous animals.

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Speaker 2: It shows you just how skilled and.

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Speaker 1: Organized they were cooperative hunting probably.

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Speaker 2: For sure, they had to work together to bring down

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those giants.

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Speaker 1: And this is where it gets a little unsettling. According

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to your sources, their favorite prey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah was us, almost sapiens, like we were on the menu.

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It's a chilling thought, isn't it, to think that we

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weren't just competing for resources.

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Speaker 1: We were the resource.

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Speaker 2: It really flips the script on our usual human centric

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view of history.

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Speaker 1: It does. It makes you realize that for a long time,

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we were anything but exceptional.

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Speaker 2: We were vulnerable, just trying to survive.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about the bigger picture, the timeline

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of human evolution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's boom out a bit.

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Speaker 1: We tend to think of history as you know, ancient

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Egypt to Roman Empire, right.

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Speaker 2: Or even going back further, like Confucius. You mentioned him earlier.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's what a couple thousand.

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Speaker 2: Years, Yeah, twenty five hundred years or so for Confucius.

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Speaker 1: But human evolution goes back millions of years.

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Speaker 2: Millions, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Your sources point out that the split from chimpanzees happened

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around seven million years ago.

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Speaker 2: And that gave rise to the first hominins.

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Speaker 1: Hominins being like the umbrella term for all modern.

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Speaker 2: Humans, extinct human species, and all our immediate ancestors to a.

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Speaker 1: Huge diverse family tree.

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Speaker 2: And Homo sapiens were just a recent addition to that family, showing.

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Speaker 1: Up around three hundred thousand years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, relative newcomers.

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Speaker 1: So for the vast majority of human history, we weren't

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even around.

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Speaker 2: It's mind boggling when you think.

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Speaker 1: About it it is, and during that time there was

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all this experimentation in the human lineage, so.

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Speaker 2: Many different branches evolving.

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Speaker 1: All these different ways of being human.

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Speaker 2: And your sources talk about some key milestones like bipedalism

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walking upright. That was huge literally and figuratively.

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Speaker 1: It freed up our hands.

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Speaker 2: Which allowed for tool use, carrying things. But it also

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had other benefits, right, Yeah, like heat regulation. It helped

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us stay cool.

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Speaker 1: Oh, and it made us more energy efficient for long

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distance travel.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, all these advantage for a species spreading out of Africa.

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Speaker 1: And early on we see this in species like Artipithecus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were still pretty ape like, but they were

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walking upright.

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Speaker 1: And gradually the diet shifted, incorporating more.

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Speaker 2: Meat, which provided more calories, more energy, and that combined

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with social structures and early.

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Speaker 1: Technology, led to bigger brains exactly. We see this in

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species like Austrolopithecus and paranthropists.

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Speaker 2: They were getting smarter, more adaptable.

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Speaker 1: That we get to Homo habilists, the tool makers.

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Speaker 2: They were the first to really start using stone tools, and.

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Speaker 1: Their brains were even bigger, more like ours.

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Speaker 2: And then came Homo erectus, a real game changer.

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Speaker 1: They were the ones who mastered fire right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, fire for warmth, for cooking, for protection.

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Speaker 1: They build more permanent shelters, and they were incredible hunters.

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They developed more sophisticated techniques.

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Speaker 2: And they were the first to migrate out.

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Speaker 1: Of Africa, spreading across Asia and into Europe.

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Speaker 2: A truly global species.

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Speaker 1: And it's important to remember, as your sources point out,

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that this wasn't a linear.

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Speaker 2: From one species to the next.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was more like a bush with lots of branches.

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Speaker 2: Home Erectus didn't just evolve directly into us.

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Speaker 1: They branched out into numerous other species, each adapting to

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their own environments.

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Speaker 2: It's a much more complex picture than we often imagine.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that really emerges from this

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long evolutionary journey, yeah, is the role of violence.

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Speaker 2: It's a dark side of our history.

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Speaker 1: But it seems that the capacity for violence became a

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key survival.

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Speaker 2: Skill, especially with those free.

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Speaker 1: Hands from walking upright.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hands that could hold weapons, throw spears.

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Speaker 1: And those larger brains they allowed for planning, strategizing, coordinating attacks.

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Speaker 2: We're becoming more efficient killers.

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Speaker 1: And the development of tribal structures.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those social bonds allowed.

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Speaker 1: For cooperation, for passing down knowledge about fighting techniques.

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Speaker 2: It all contributed to this growing capacity for organized violence.

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Speaker 1: Your sources highlight Homohidelbergensis as a particularly important species.

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Speaker 2: They were kind of an evolutionary crossroads leading to both

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Homo sapiens and the Hobbits. The Homo Flora's ansis.

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Speaker 1: Which is interesting that such different species could come from

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the same ancestor.

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Speaker 2: It shows the power of adaptation.

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Speaker 1: So for over two hundred thousand years, our planet was

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a melting pot of different human species, each.

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Speaker 2: With their own unique set of traits and adaptations.

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Speaker 1: And it's strange to think about because we're so used

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to being the only human species left.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, our current situation is actually an anomaly.

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Speaker 1: For most of human history, we share the Earth with others.

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Speaker 2: It makes you wonder what it would be like if

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those other species had survived.

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Speaker 1: What would the world be like today.

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Speaker 2: It's a fascinating thought experiment.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's bring it back to the Neanderthals.

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Speaker 2: Those apex predators.

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Speaker 1: Your sources really challenged the traditional view of them.

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Speaker 2: As those you know, kind of dumb, brutish cavemen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they painted much more, uh intimidating.

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Speaker 2: Picture, almost like real life orcs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good analogy.

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Speaker 2: They were big, they were strong, they were fierce, and they.

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Speaker 1: Were incredibly well adapted to their environment.

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Speaker 2: They had to be to survive in those harsh ice

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age conditions.

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Speaker 1: So physically, how are they different from us?

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Speaker 2: Well, for starters, they were much more robust, like bigger boned,

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bigger boned, denser bones, which meant they could support more

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muscle masks.

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Speaker 1: And they were shorter than us, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, stockier, but don't let that fool you.

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Speaker 1: They were still strong, like ridiculously strong. The sources compare

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them to NFL linebackers.

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Speaker 2: But even bigger and tougher.

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Speaker 1: And they had those distinctive brow.

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Speaker 2: Ridges, right yeah, those prominent bony ridges above the.

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Speaker 1: Eyes, and their noses were wider.

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Speaker 2: That was an adaptation to the cold. It helped to

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warm and humidify the air they breathed, and their jaws

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were powerful, built for tearing meat.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes unfortunately, tearing human flesh.

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Speaker 2: It's a dark part of their history.

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Speaker 1: But it's important to acknowledge it. It was a.

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Speaker 2: Brutal time and they were a product of their environment.

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Speaker 1: So they were strong, they were adapted to the cold,

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but they were also intelligent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, their brains were actually bigger than ours, and they.

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Speaker 1: Had language, They formed complex social groups.

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Speaker 2: They were organized hunters working together to take down large prey, like.

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Speaker 1: Those mammoths and rhinos we talked about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it took a lot of skill in coordination to

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hunt those animals.

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Speaker 1: They probably had some kind of communication.

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Speaker 2: System, definitely, maybe even rudimentary language.

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Speaker 1: And your sources suggest that their hunting parties were.

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Speaker 2: Like small armies, highly efficient, deadly.

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Speaker 1: And they viewed us Homo sapiens as just another prey animal.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to wrap our minds around.

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Speaker 1: That, it is, but it seems that for them we

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were a source of food.

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Speaker 2: And women, well they were taken for breeding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not exactly a romantic picture.

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Speaker 2: No, it was a brutal reality.

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Speaker 1: Forced interbreeding basically.

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Speaker 2: Which is why many people today still carry Neanderthal DNA.

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Speaker 1: It's a reminder of that dark chapter in our shared.

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Speaker 2: History, it is, but it's also a reminder of our resilience.

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Speaker 1: The fact that we survived those encounters.

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Speaker 2: And eventually went on to become the eminent species.

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Speaker 1: It's a testament to our adaptability and maybe a little

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bit of luck. So the period of coexistence between Neanderthals

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and Homo sapiens.

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Speaker 2: It was a violent time.

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Speaker 1: Your sources describe it as a constant state of warfare.

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Speaker 2: Raids, ambushes, skirmishes, and those Neanderthals they were formidable opponents.

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Imagine them, these huge, powerful figures emerging from the forest.

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Speaker 1: With their thick fur and those piercing.

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Speaker 2: Eyes, and their incredible strength.

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Speaker 1: And a bite force that could crush bone.

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Speaker 2: It must have been terrifying for our ancestors.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, it was a fight for survival.

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Speaker 2: And the archaeological evidence backs this up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we see signs of violence in the skeletal remains,

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skull fractures, broken bones, injuries consistent with both attack and defense.

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Speaker 2: It was a brutal back and forth.

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Speaker 1: And those Nandithal young males, they had a lot of injuries.

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Speaker 2: Their lifespan was short. A lot of them didn't make

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it past forty.

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Speaker 1: A testament to the harshness of their lives.

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Speaker 2: And the constant threat of violence.

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Speaker 1: And for a long time they were winning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for about one hundred thousand years they pushed back

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against Homo sapiens.

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Speaker 1: We were on the defensive, trying to hold on.

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Speaker 2: And when the Neanderthals won, the spoils of war were grim.

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Speaker 1: Men were often killed.

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Speaker 2: And eaten, and women, as we talked about before, taken

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for breeding. It's a dark picture and it's important to

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understand this part of our history.

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Speaker 1: It shaped who we are today.

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Speaker 2: And it helps to explain why our species almost when extinct.

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Speaker 1: Around eighty thousand years ago, there was a major genetic bottleneck.

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Speaker 2: Our population plummeted to as few.

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Speaker 1: As forty to fifty individuals according to your sources.

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Speaker 2: That's a tiny number.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible that we managed to recover from that.

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Speaker 2: It was a close call, a near extinction event.

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Speaker 1: And this bottleneck seems to have happened right when the

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Neanderthals were at their strongest.

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Speaker 2: Expanding their territory, dominating the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: We were being push to the brink.

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Speaker 2: Our ancestors were forced into.

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Speaker 1: Hiding, taking sheltering caves, underground system.

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Speaker 2: Like the during Kuyu complex and Turkey, which.

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Speaker 1: Could hold thousands of people.

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Speaker 2: It was a desperate struggle for survival.

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Speaker 1: So how did we make it through, How did we

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bounce back from the brink of extinction?

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Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't a military victory, at least not in

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the traditional sense. What happened it seems that nature intervened

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oh interesting. Around the same time that Neanderthals started disappearing

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from the fossil record, there was a massive volcanic eruption

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in what's now Italy, the companion Ignimberate eruption. That was

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a big one, right huge, one of the largest in history,

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and it caused a global cooling event, a sudden extreme

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ice age that would.

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Speaker 1: Have had a devastating impact on the.

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Speaker 2: Environment, especially in the levant region where both Neanderthals and

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early humans were living.

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Speaker 1: What happened to them.

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Speaker 2: Well, the eruption would have caused widespread die offs of animals.

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Speaker 1: The animals that Neanderthals depended on.

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Speaker 2: For food exactly their main food source was wiped out.

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Speaker 1: And while our ancestors may have been able to survive

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on a more varied diet.

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Speaker 2: Or find refuge in their shelters.

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Speaker 1: The Neanderthals were hit much harder.

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Speaker 2: They were specialized hunters and their prey was gone.

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Speaker 1: So it was a combination of factors that led to their.

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Speaker 2: Decline, the volcanic eruption, climate change, and competition with us.

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Speaker 1: It's a reminder that even the strongest species can be

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vulnerable to external forces.

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Speaker 2: And that sometimes survival comes down to luck.

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Speaker 1: So the Neanderthals disappeared, but not entirely.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's the interesting thing.

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Speaker 1: They left a lasting legacy in our DNA inter breeding

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that forced inner breeding.

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Speaker 2: We talked about it had some unexpected consequences.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that some of those Neanderthal genes were beneficial.

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Speaker 2: They helped us to adapt to new environments.

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Speaker 1: Like the colder climates of Europe and Asia, and.

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Speaker 2: They strengthened our immune systems.

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Speaker 1: So even though the Neanderthals are gone, a part of

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them lives on in us.

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Speaker 2: It's a strange twist of fate.

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Speaker 1: The species that nearly wiped us out also helped us

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to thrive.

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Speaker 2: It's a testament to the interconnectedness of.

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Speaker 1: Life and the power of adaptation.

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Speaker 2: So the Neanderthals, they were so complex, They were intelligent,

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they were strong, they were brutal, and they were a

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product of their time and their environment.

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Speaker 1: Their story is a reminder that human evolution is not

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a straight line.

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Speaker 2: It's a messy, complicated process, full of twists and turns

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and dead ends.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes survival comes down to a combination of resilience, adaptation,

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and a little bit of luck. Well, that was a

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wild ride, it was, wasn't it. Going back hundreds of thousands.

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Speaker 2: Of years, you have time when the world was a

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very different place and.

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Speaker 1: Our own survival was far from certain.

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Speaker 2: It's a humbling thought, it is.

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Speaker 1: And it makes you wonder what other challenges did our

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ancestors face.

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Speaker 2: Well, other monsters, maybe not as obvious as the.

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Speaker 1: Neanderthals, lurked in the shadows.

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Speaker 2: Shaping our evolution in ways were only beginning to understand.

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Speaker 1: It's a reminder that the story of human evolution is

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still being written.

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Speaker 2: And that we're just a small part of a much

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larger story.

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Speaker 1: It gives your whole new perspective on what it means

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to be human, doesn't it. Thanks for taking this deep

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dive with me.

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Speaker 2: It was my pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Until next time, Keep exploring, keep questioning.

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Speaker 2: And maybe keep a lookout for those monsters just in

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case

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Speaker 1: Uh huh, I will be curious and curious