Speaker 1: My Billy Cunningham, the Great America and of course writes
Speaker 1: Baseball off today, back at it over the weekend with
Speaker 1: the Cubs and towns, plus the taste so much more.
Speaker 1: But until then in the studio with me is Tom Gableman,
Speaker 1: who was the point man from Frost Todd to the
Speaker 1: lawyers representing the county and also doing their best for
Speaker 1: the last twenty five to thirty years getting this deal done.
Speaker 1: And Tom Gableman, welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show.
Speaker 1: And first of all, Tom, when you were relieved to
Speaker 1: your duties kind of like a general of the army,
Speaker 1: you were relieved to your duties like Patton was relieved
Speaker 1: of his duties by Eisenhower last week. What was the
Speaker 1: status of the Bengals deal at that point when you
Speaker 1: were relieved last week?
Speaker 2: I would say Willie that we were in the red zone,
Speaker 2: to use a football analogy, because we had about ninety
Speaker 2: percent of the terms and conditions of a comprehensive agreement
Speaker 2: agreed to in concept between the Bengals and the county,
Speaker 2: and those terms and conditions, by the we're all aligned
Speaker 2: with what the Board of County Commissioners had given us
Speaker 2: as policy parameters dating back a year prior to those
Speaker 2: intense negotiations that we had, so.
Speaker 3: We were in the red zone.
Speaker 2: We thought we could easily make the June first date
Speaker 2: for a business term sheet and June thirtieth for a
Speaker 2: new agreement.
Speaker 1: Were you, shall we say, surprised or shocked? Were you
Speaker 1: any indication ahead of time you were about to be relieved?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, So there was nothing there. I received a
Speaker 2: call from the Prosecutor's office around nine ten am the
Speaker 2: day of the termination.
Speaker 3: The board meeting was at ten nine ten am nine.
Speaker 2: Ten am was a Prosecutor's office, the administrator, Jeff Aludo.
Speaker 2: There was no explanation given for the termination.
Speaker 1: Who fired you? Who was was it? Jeff?
Speaker 2: My understanding is that Connie Pillage did because she wanted
Speaker 2: to go in a different direction. That was the only
Speaker 2: explanation that was given. Of course, I've been working for
Speaker 2: the Count for over twenty eight years now and certainly
Speaker 2: expected that at a minimum we would have had some discussion,
Speaker 2: some indication.
Speaker 1: Some unhappiness something.
Speaker 2: But you know, Willie would I had presented to you
Speaker 2: and I'll stand on this record.
Speaker 3: I have it here.
Speaker 2: I'll stand on this record. We have represented the County
Speaker 2: for twenty eight years. There was some allegation in an
Speaker 2: inchoir story. It might have been also an interview in
Speaker 2: which you were contacted directly or indirectly by Connie Pillage's
Speaker 2: campaign when she was running for prosecutor, and there was
Speaker 2: an implication that you did not pay the piper. Well
Speaker 2: during the campaign, Willie, I made a ethical decision after
Speaker 2: going through the city council fiasco when three city council
Speaker 2: members were ultimately sentral sentenced to jail through the Federal penitentiary,
Speaker 2: in which I did work with the US Attorney's Office
Speaker 2: and the FBI.
Speaker 1: I tried to talk to you during that and you
Speaker 1: did not return my calls.
Speaker 2: Well, I could not talk to you at that point
Speaker 2: because it was an ongoing investigation, as they say, Willie.
Speaker 3: But I'll tell you what as a result of that,
Speaker 3: where we're.
Speaker 2: Basically a council member was asking for a bribe when
Speaker 2: I'm representing Hamilton County, representing the board.
Speaker 1: Which council member was it?
Speaker 3: This was Tamaya Denard.
Speaker 1: She wanted a bribe.
Speaker 2: She wanted a bribe in exchange for two votes that
Speaker 2: were coming up in front of city council to you
Speaker 2: directly directly at the coffee emporium on Central Parkway. How
Speaker 2: much The initial request was fifteen thousand and two payments
Speaker 2: ten thousand and five thousand. The second one came later
Speaker 2: for five thousand in cash. All of these were being
Speaker 2: recorded by the FBI, and all these I didn't know
Speaker 2: what the origin of it was. I had never talked
Speaker 2: it to my ad An Art before. I didn't know
Speaker 2: how she had my cell number. But the bottom line
Speaker 2: in all of this, what I had to do, which
Speaker 2: was the ethical thing, and reported it to the US
Speaker 2: Attorney's office and they started an investigation. So Ever since then, Willie,
Speaker 2: I'm extremely sensitive about any candidate during a campaign contacting me.
Speaker 2: When I represent the Border County Commissioners, I don't represent
Speaker 2: the Prosecutor's office, but the prosecutor's office, and at that time,
Speaker 2: Melissa Powers was the chief lawyer for the county. So
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna I'm not going to engage in that.
Speaker 2: That was my ethical decision not to do it. After
Speaker 2: Connie Pilach was elected, I contributed to her campaign because
Speaker 2: she's now in office and you're gonna be so.
Speaker 3: One thousand dollars, right, But you're gonna be supportive of that.
Speaker 3: But I never heard from her after that, nor did
Speaker 3: I expect to. And you've had Roger Freeman on your
Speaker 3: show a number of times.
Speaker 2: Roger Lawyer and the prosecutors right assistant prosecutor, and I've
Speaker 2: worked with Roger for twenty eight years. I talked to
Speaker 2: Roger every other day, sometimes multiple multiple times a day,
Speaker 2: as I do the administrator County administrator. And I've gone
Speaker 2: through now was it four prosecutors, four prosecutors, Joe Dieters,
Speaker 2: Mike Allen, Joe Dieters then came back, and then we
Speaker 2: had Lissa Powers, and now we had Connie Pillach. It's rarely,
Speaker 2: rarely do you hear from the prosecutor. They've got one
Speaker 2: hundred and ten assistants and that's who we deal with.
Speaker 2: And Roger's always been the point person on the bank.
Speaker 1: So at this point, the lack of a donation to
Speaker 1: the Pillage campaign you think had nothing or something to
Speaker 1: do with your discharge.
Speaker 2: You know what, at this point, it doesn't matter. It
Speaker 2: has happened, it's done. The board has the absolute discussion
Speaker 2: to do what they want to do in terms of council.
Speaker 3: Same thing with the prosecutor.
Speaker 2: We think that our record, We think that our record
Speaker 2: and what I provided to you yesterday, Willie demonstrate you,
Speaker 2: I mean rock solid what we brought back to the
Speaker 2: county and our services as Project Council. It's approaching a
Speaker 2: billion dollars. You can take it to a CPA and
Speaker 2: have them audit it. It's a billion dollars now over
Speaker 2: that twenty eight Over that twenty eight years, it did
Speaker 2: cost the county twenty six million. You know what the
Speaker 2: return on that investment is. It's the highest return on
Speaker 2: investment than any anything that we've done in the banks.
Speaker 2: It's three seven hundred and forty six percent.
Speaker 1: And money paid to you and Frost Todd and there was.
Speaker 3: Paid to me. I would have liked I would have
Speaker 3: liked to had twenty six million. I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Let's go back a little bit. I've had the Nise
Speaker 1: tree House on repeatedly, and each time I have her on,
Speaker 1: she tells the American people things are going well. She
Speaker 1: thought the deal was going to get done. The Nise
Speaker 1: tree House, who really is your employer more than the
Speaker 1: county prosecutors that you worked for, the commissioners, and you've
Speaker 1: gone through various groups and commissioners. And so when she says,
Speaker 1: and I think she believes this, that this deal is
Speaker 1: close to being done. So why would the commissioners relieve
Speaker 1: you of your duties when the Nise tree House, the
Speaker 1: president of the commission says things are going in the
Speaker 1: right direction, We're getting close. There had to be a
Speaker 1: triggering moment last week, was there?
Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of at all, because I can
Speaker 2: tell you Willie, and if you remember, there was last summer,
Speaker 2: and towards the end of last summer, the Bengals had said, hey,
Speaker 2: things are not going well at the upper levels of
Speaker 2: the county in with the Bengals organization. But notwithstanding that,
Speaker 2: our team at Frost, my team that I was working with,
Speaker 2: we continued to meet with the Bengals almost every day,
Speaker 2: and part of that was to advance the necessary capital
Speaker 2: repairs and maintenance and operations of that stadium, as well
Speaker 2: as planning for a comprehensive renovation. We met with them
Speaker 2: almost every day, and in the last several weeks we
Speaker 2: were meeting with them every day. We were meeting, we
Speaker 2: were talking to them at night through weekends. The MoU
Speaker 2: that was entered into which was another significant step forward.
Speaker 1: Ten days ago, two weeks ago. Yeah, right before our
Speaker 1: termination had on the nation. She said things are going great. No,
Speaker 1: and they are going great, and so the Bengals agreed.
Speaker 1: Now here's what's interesting. The Bengals in twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: put in forty five million into the stadium. The county
Speaker 1: put in forty million, but we came in on a
Speaker 1: budget because we were managing that process. We came in
Speaker 1: under budget by six million dollars. Fast forward again, the
Speaker 1: MoU that was just passed by the board and approved
Speaker 1: by the Bengals. Have the Bengals putting in one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty million to redo the East and West Club
Speaker 1: lounges and to redo the suites one hundred and twenty million,
Speaker 1: put in about sixty Well, but here's the thing. The
Speaker 1: county put in thirty five million.
Speaker 2: They put in thirty five million to do the work
Speaker 2: that was necessary to match the one hundred and twenty million, okay,
Speaker 2: and that involved the vertical transportation, seats, electrical upgrades. Those
Speaker 2: were all necessary things because the escalators and elevators they're
Speaker 2: twenty five years old, are terrible. They've they've got to
Speaker 2: be replaced.
Speaker 1: Let's break it down to this eight nred so called
Speaker 1: eight hundred and thirty million, that there was a piece
Speaker 1: in there the state had to come up with like
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty million. Right when I had on
Speaker 1: the Speaker of the House, had on the President of
Speaker 1: the High Senate, they all said that money's not available.
Speaker 1: That's what they said. It's not coming out of the
Speaker 1: general revenue fund. It's got to be something off to
Speaker 1: the side. And so the eight hundred and thirty million
Speaker 1: the NFL was putting in money, I think one hundred
Speaker 1: and some million had the Bengals putting in money. Attack,
Speaker 1: assuming the three hundred and fifty million from the state
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, what does that do to the deal?
Speaker 2: Well, in that case, if it does not happen at
Speaker 2: all at all, which we don't expect, all right, we
Speaker 2: don't expect that because of what has already happened in
Speaker 2: the legislature, where the House approved six hundred million to
Speaker 2: the Cleveland Browns six hundred million based on a projection
Speaker 2: that Cleveland can build a banks project out by the
Speaker 2: airport over the next thirty years thirty years, over the
Speaker 2: next thirty years, and as part of those projections, they
Speaker 2: also said every single Cleveland Browns game will be sold
Speaker 2: out for thirty years at eight hundred dollars a ticket.
Speaker 3: Regardless of that, here's where we are.
Speaker 2: I want to tell you about what is the most
Speaker 2: positive thing, and that's where we're trying to get the
Speaker 2: support from Speaker Huffman and the Senate President McCauley, is
Speaker 2: that we my team prepared a comprehensive sports gaming revenue
Speaker 2: proposal and in short, Wellie, what that does. It does
Speaker 2: not take any money from the general revenue F one,
Speaker 2: doesn't take a dime from education, doesn't take a dime
Speaker 2: for mental health or any other soccial services. What it
Speaker 2: does do is say Ohio is in the top five
Speaker 2: in the country in sports gambling. Why because we have
Speaker 2: professional teams in football and baseball, and we also happen
Speaker 2: to have a higher state and you see every one's
Speaker 2: when they're competitive. But regardless, we're in the top five.
Speaker 2: We're not in the top five though, in what comes
Speaker 2: back to the state. So here's what we said. We
Speaker 2: said to the governor last fall. We met with the
Speaker 2: governor last fall in our offices, and we present it
Speaker 2: to him a gaming revenue proposal that would have an
Speaker 2: incremental fee, and I'll tell you what that fee is
Speaker 2: in a second.
Speaker 3: That would be charged to draft Kings and fan.
Speaker 2: Duel and bet three sixty five and bet MGM incremental fee.
Speaker 2: We've now taken that fee down to two percent of
Speaker 2: their gross revenue. So on one hundred dollars, bet two
Speaker 2: percent gets charged. It can either go back to the
Speaker 2: better or they can just subsorb it. That brings in
Speaker 2: two hundred million a year in cash to the state.
Speaker 2: Over ten years, that would bring a billion dollars back
Speaker 2: to Hamilton County for both stadiums, potentially for tqol when
Speaker 2: you know ten fifteen years from now when that needs
Speaker 2: to be renovated. Those are all dollars that would be
Speaker 2: available in the same dollars. Could you also go up
Speaker 2: to Cleveland, Columbus And we did it not just for
Speaker 2: the major league stadiums. We did it for the minor
Speaker 2: league stadiums like in Dayton. In Dayton Toledo Columbus.
Speaker 1: But Ton Gableman, what happens if that doesn't happen. Let's
Speaker 1: talk because some of my politicians' friends say, we're not
Speaker 1: going to do that either. That increases taxes, but it's
Speaker 1: a fee charge only to the people who want to bet.
Speaker 1: But what if that three hundred and fifty million doesn't happen, Well,
Speaker 1: then what happened here?
Speaker 2: I'm going to challenge you back on that. Though it
Speaker 2: is not a tax, it is a privilege fee, and
Speaker 2: it's the same thing to happen in Tennessee. They went
Speaker 2: from a twenty percent tax to a one point eight
Speaker 2: percent fee and the vetter doesn't necessarily necessary have to
Speaker 2: pay for it. Bet MGM or draft Kings can absorb that.
Speaker 2: Because Willie, they are making ten billion a year off
Speaker 2: of Ohio.
Speaker 3: They don't have one employee in Ohio. They don't have
Speaker 3: one employee, they don't.
Speaker 2: Have sticks and bricks in Ohio except for bet MGM,
Speaker 2: there's no investment in Ohio.
Speaker 1: We'll ask you again, what happens if that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: You're making the argument it should happen, right, What if
Speaker 1: it doesn't occur and the state says none of that,
Speaker 1: We're not going to do it. That question is answered
Speaker 1: by saying what.
Speaker 2: That question is answered by what we had put in
Speaker 2: the termsheet that the Bengals had accepted. Is you take
Speaker 2: this eight hundred and thirty million dollar program that would
Speaker 2: be done over three years, and it gets moved back
Speaker 2: downward again because if you remember, we started at one
Speaker 2: point three billion, both the county and the team agreed,
Speaker 2: let's focus on the stadium, not everything around it, different
Speaker 2: from every other NFL stadium instead of increasing the cost,
Speaker 2: so back so you reduce the amount until funds can't
Speaker 2: come in and everybody's contribution then gets a There you're.
Speaker 1: Ready for the big question. Yes, sir, you know more
Speaker 1: about this than anyone. You deal with the Bengals directly,
Speaker 1: Katie Blackburn and also her family and Mike Brown and
Speaker 1: Paul H. Brown and Troy etc. And although in house lawyers,
Speaker 1: et cetera, do you feel in your heart of hearts
Speaker 1: that the Bengals want to strike a deal and stay
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati and not go to San Diego or Mexico City.
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because, as I said Willie, we have been working
Speaker 2: with them for years. We were not involved in the
Speaker 2: original lease agreement that was done by the Prosecutor's office
Speaker 2: and done by an out of town consultant.
Speaker 1: Thirty we're talking thirty years ago.
Speaker 2: Right, Rod Deck and Wolf. They hired a law firm
Speaker 2: out of town. But every single modification of that lease.
Speaker 2: Since then, I have been involved in and the first
Speaker 2: modification came within seven months when we structured a deal
Speaker 2: with the Bengals and with the city to start the
Speaker 2: whole development of the riverfront. That was in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2: In every single agreement since then, the Bengals have been
Speaker 2: willing to modify that lease in order for development to proceed.
Speaker 2: The Bengals have There's been some implication the Bengals have
Speaker 2: not dealt in good faith. They have dealt in absolute
Speaker 2: good faith with an absolute passion to get a deal
Speaker 2: done in Cincinnati. This family wants to stay in Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: and Willy We've looked at deals all across the country.
Speaker 2: The only time any any team, an MLB team, NFL
Speaker 2: team leaves is when they've been invited to leave because
Speaker 2: you didn't have the right people at the table that
Speaker 2: were saying, what's in your best interests, what are your constraints,
Speaker 2: what are my best interests, and what are my constraints?
Speaker 3: And you build a bridge, and we had built that bridge.
Speaker 1: So right now as we sit here this afternoon on
Speaker 1: a Thursday, you're out and Densmore Shull is in George
Speaker 1: Vincent's in charge, I guess of Densmore. Where is the
Speaker 1: deal as we speak this Thursday.
Speaker 2: Afternoon, This Thursday afternoon, really, as I said when we
Speaker 2: were talking originally, it is. We have positioned the county
Speaker 2: extremely well to get this deal done.
Speaker 1: Are you optimistic even though you're out.
Speaker 3: I am absolutely optimistic.
Speaker 1: I am five weeks.
Speaker 3: I am hopeful.
Speaker 2: I am hopeful as a lifelong Cincinnatian that we get
Speaker 2: this deal done because it should get done because we
Speaker 2: were on the right path, and it was a path
Speaker 2: that said there are going to be fair and equitable
Speaker 2: contributions from the team, from the county and from the state.
Speaker 2: And if the state didn't come through, we're still going
Speaker 2: to move forward and different, different than what's happening in Buffalo,
Speaker 2: Nashville as well as you know other cities that are
Speaker 2: building new stadiums. We don't have to spend two point
Speaker 2: five billion. The Washington Commander Stadium is going to be
Speaker 2: four billion, Chicago's at five. I mean, it's endless. But
Speaker 2: the Bengals and the county said we can sustain this
Speaker 2: stadium and it can go beyond ten, fifteen, twenty years,
Speaker 2: but we have to invest now. We have been conservative
Speaker 2: but it's been well maintained and you know the Bengals
Speaker 2: management has maintained that building.
Speaker 1: I'm ask you this, Tom gableman, have you thought about
Speaker 1: suing the county commissioners for wrongful discharge?
Speaker 2: No, Willie, you know, look, I've done this. We have
Speaker 2: done this at a substantially reduced rate. I will tell
Speaker 2: you that, you know, so the answer is no. So
Speaker 2: the answer the answer is no because there's there. This
Speaker 2: is first of all, I'll just tell you this from
Speaker 2: the heart. And actually my son, my youngest son, reminded
Speaker 2: me of this the other night when he said, you know,
Speaker 2: you don't get an opportunity in your own hometown. They
Speaker 2: have such an impact the way that you have had
Speaker 2: on that river front. You're proud of what you've done.
Speaker 2: I'm damn proud of what we've done. I'll stand on
Speaker 2: what we've done. We have, we have the record and
Speaker 2: it proves it.
Speaker 3: Tom.
Speaker 1: We have to run. Time is always short. But you
Speaker 1: also have leukemia CLL and we have about a minute
Speaker 1: remaining as your health as I.
Speaker 2: Speak, I am going through treatment right now, and I
Speaker 2: think most importantly, the hours have been extremely long. We
Speaker 2: you know, I worked was out visiting my son in
Speaker 2: Denver and his family, and we got the Bengals deal
Speaker 2: done on the MoU that advanced this entire project forward,
Speaker 2: agreed on the renovation.
Speaker 1: Are you by this?
Speaker 3: Oh? Extremely No, this is Willie. This is heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: This is heartbreaking because when you work as many hours,
Speaker 2: and there are so many times that first deal in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, everybody said, we can't get it done,
Speaker 2: and the Bengals we're going to leave town because we
Speaker 2: had to get a deal done with Norfolk Southern, the
Speaker 2: Cincinnati City of Cincinnati on railroad and the Bengals and
Speaker 2: the city one week. We got one week to get
Speaker 2: it done. We got it done. The next deal that
Speaker 2: we did was the was the Bank's deal, which Todd
Speaker 2: portun god rest his soul told me so many times, Willy,
Speaker 2: stop it, Tom. It's we're never going to g have
Speaker 2: the banks. And now that banks. Here's what's striking. When
Speaker 2: we said we were going to build two stadiums in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six and the voter said sixty two percent
Speaker 2: voted in favor of it, we said we will get
Speaker 2: about three hundred million in.
Speaker 3: Economic impact off those stadiums.
Speaker 2: Today and U see's economic report, because we've been working
Speaker 2: on that for about a year with UC it is
Speaker 2: two point five billion a year. The Bengals put a
Speaker 2: billion dollars in to our community, the Reds put a
Speaker 2: billion dollars into our community, and we have another five
Speaker 2: hundred million from that banks. It is bar none, Willie,
Speaker 2: because we researched it. There is there is not another
Speaker 2: urban redevelopment project in this country that throws off two
Speaker 2: point five billion in economic impact. Bar none. Go to Dallas,
Speaker 2: go to Charlotte, go to Austin, go to Green Bay,
Speaker 2: wherever you want to go. This is the most successful
Speaker 2: project and we weren't even done yet.
Speaker 1: Right well, Tom, thank you, thank you. I'll call upon
Speaker 1: you in the future if hopefully your treatment goes well.
Speaker 1: And I wish you and yours nothing but the best.
Speaker 1: Willie love being on your show.
Speaker 2: You are a great American and I appreciate being here
Speaker 2: and I will focus on my health. I have a
Speaker 2: little more time to rest and I look forward to
Speaker 2: being with my family and my first granddaughter.
Speaker 1: Good luck and godspeed, Thank you all. Let's continue News
Speaker 1: Next on News Radio seven hundred WW