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<v Speaker 1>My Billy Cunningham, the Great America and of course writes

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<v Speaker 1>Baseball off today, back at it over the weekend with

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<v Speaker 1>the Cubs and towns, plus the taste so much more.

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<v Speaker 1>But until then in the studio with me is Tom Gableman,

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<v Speaker 1>who was the point man from Frost Todd to the

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<v Speaker 1>lawyers representing the county and also doing their best for

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<v Speaker 1>the last twenty five to thirty years getting this deal done.

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<v Speaker 1>And Tom Gableman, welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show.

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<v Speaker 1>And first of all, Tom, when you were relieved to

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<v Speaker 1>your duties kind of like a general of the army,

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<v Speaker 1>you were relieved to your duties like Patton was relieved

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<v Speaker 1>of his duties by Eisenhower last week. What was the

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<v Speaker 1>status of the Bengals deal at that point when you

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<v Speaker 1>were relieved last week?

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<v Speaker 2>I would say Willie that we were in the red zone,

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<v Speaker 2>to use a football analogy, because we had about ninety

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<v Speaker 2>percent of the terms and conditions of a comprehensive agreement

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<v Speaker 2>agreed to in concept between the Bengals and the county,

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<v Speaker 2>and those terms and conditions, by the we're all aligned

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<v Speaker 2>with what the Board of County Commissioners had given us

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<v Speaker 2>as policy parameters dating back a year prior to those

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<v Speaker 2>intense negotiations that we had, so.

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<v Speaker 3>We were in the red zone.

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<v Speaker 2>We thought we could easily make the June first date

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<v Speaker 2>for a business term sheet and June thirtieth for a

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<v Speaker 2>new agreement.

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<v Speaker 1>Were you, shall we say, surprised or shocked? Were you

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<v Speaker 1>any indication ahead of time you were about to be relieved?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely not, So there was nothing there. I received a

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<v Speaker 2>call from the Prosecutor's office around nine ten am the

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<v Speaker 2>day of the termination.

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<v Speaker 3>The board meeting was at ten nine ten am nine.

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<v Speaker 2>Ten am was a Prosecutor's office, the administrator, Jeff Aludo.

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<v Speaker 2>There was no explanation given for the termination.

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<v Speaker 1>Who fired you? Who was was it? Jeff?

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<v Speaker 2>My understanding is that Connie Pillage did because she wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to go in a different direction. That was the only

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<v Speaker 2>explanation that was given. Of course, I've been working for

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<v Speaker 2>the Count for over twenty eight years now and certainly

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<v Speaker 2>expected that at a minimum we would have had some discussion,

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<v Speaker 2>some indication.

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<v Speaker 1>Some unhappiness something.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, Willie would I had presented to you

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<v Speaker 2>and I'll stand on this record.

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<v Speaker 3>I have it here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll stand on this record. We have represented the County

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty eight years. There was some allegation in an

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<v Speaker 2>inchoir story. It might have been also an interview in

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<v Speaker 2>which you were contacted directly or indirectly by Connie Pillage's

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<v Speaker 2>campaign when she was running for prosecutor, and there was

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<v Speaker 2>an implication that you did not pay the piper. Well

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<v Speaker 2>during the campaign, Willie, I made a ethical decision after

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<v Speaker 2>going through the city council fiasco when three city council

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<v Speaker 2>members were ultimately sentral sentenced to jail through the Federal penitentiary,

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<v Speaker 2>in which I did work with the US Attorney's Office

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<v Speaker 2>and the FBI.

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<v Speaker 1>I tried to talk to you during that and you

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<v Speaker 1>did not return my calls.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I could not talk to you at that point

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<v Speaker 2>because it was an ongoing investigation, as they say, Willie.

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<v Speaker 3>But I'll tell you what as a result of that,

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<v Speaker 3>where we're.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically a council member was asking for a bribe when

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<v Speaker 2>I'm representing Hamilton County, representing the board.

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<v Speaker 1>Which council member was it?

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<v Speaker 3>This was Tamaya Denard.

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<v Speaker 1>She wanted a bribe.

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<v Speaker 2>She wanted a bribe in exchange for two votes that

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<v Speaker 2>were coming up in front of city council to you

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<v Speaker 2>directly directly at the coffee emporium on Central Parkway. How

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<v Speaker 2>much The initial request was fifteen thousand and two payments

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<v Speaker 2>ten thousand and five thousand. The second one came later

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<v Speaker 2>for five thousand in cash. All of these were being

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<v Speaker 2>recorded by the FBI, and all these I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>what the origin of it was. I had never talked

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<v Speaker 2>it to my ad An Art before. I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>how she had my cell number. But the bottom line

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<v Speaker 2>in all of this, what I had to do, which

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<v Speaker 2>was the ethical thing, and reported it to the US

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<v Speaker 2>Attorney's office and they started an investigation. So Ever since then, Willie,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm extremely sensitive about any candidate during a campaign contacting me.

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<v Speaker 2>When I represent the Border County Commissioners, I don't represent

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<v Speaker 2>the Prosecutor's office, but the prosecutor's office, and at that time,

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<v Speaker 2>Melissa Powers was the chief lawyer for the county. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna I'm not going to engage in that.

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<v Speaker 2>That was my ethical decision not to do it. After

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<v Speaker 2>Connie Pilach was elected, I contributed to her campaign because

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<v Speaker 2>she's now in office and you're gonna be so.

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<v Speaker 3>One thousand dollars, right, But you're gonna be supportive of that.

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<v Speaker 3>But I never heard from her after that, nor did

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<v Speaker 3>I expect to. And you've had Roger Freeman on your

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<v Speaker 3>show a number of times.

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<v Speaker 2>Roger Lawyer and the prosecutors right assistant prosecutor, and I've

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<v Speaker 2>worked with Roger for twenty eight years. I talked to

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<v Speaker 2>Roger every other day, sometimes multiple multiple times a day,

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<v Speaker 2>as I do the administrator County administrator. And I've gone

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<v Speaker 2>through now was it four prosecutors, four prosecutors, Joe Dieters,

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<v Speaker 2>Mike Allen, Joe Dieters then came back, and then we

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<v Speaker 2>had Lissa Powers, and now we had Connie Pillach. It's rarely,

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<v Speaker 2>rarely do you hear from the prosecutor. They've got one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and ten assistants and that's who we deal with.

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<v Speaker 2>And Roger's always been the point person on the bank.

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<v Speaker 1>So at this point, the lack of a donation to

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<v Speaker 1>the Pillage campaign you think had nothing or something to

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<v Speaker 1>do with your discharge.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what, at this point, it doesn't matter. It

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<v Speaker 2>has happened, it's done. The board has the absolute discussion

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<v Speaker 2>to do what they want to do in terms of council.

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<v Speaker 3>Same thing with the prosecutor.

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<v Speaker 2>We think that our record, We think that our record

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<v Speaker 2>and what I provided to you yesterday, Willie demonstrate you,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean rock solid what we brought back to the

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<v Speaker 2>county and our services as Project Council. It's approaching a

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars. You can take it to a CPA and

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<v Speaker 2>have them audit it. It's a billion dollars now over

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<v Speaker 2>that twenty eight Over that twenty eight years, it did

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<v Speaker 2>cost the county twenty six million. You know what the

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<v Speaker 2>return on that investment is. It's the highest return on

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<v Speaker 2>investment than any anything that we've done in the banks.

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<v Speaker 2>It's three seven hundred and forty six percent.

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<v Speaker 1>And money paid to you and Frost Todd and there was.

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<v Speaker 3>Paid to me. I would have liked I would have

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<v Speaker 3>liked to had twenty six million. I wouldn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go back a little bit. I've had the Nise

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<v Speaker 1>tree House on repeatedly, and each time I have her on,

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<v Speaker 1>she tells the American people things are going well. She

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<v Speaker 1>thought the deal was going to get done. The Nise

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<v Speaker 1>tree House, who really is your employer more than the

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<v Speaker 1>county prosecutors that you worked for, the commissioners, and you've

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<v Speaker 1>gone through various groups and commissioners. And so when she says,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think she believes this, that this deal is

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<v Speaker 1>close to being done. So why would the commissioners relieve

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<v Speaker 1>you of your duties when the Nise tree House, the

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<v Speaker 1>president of the commission says things are going in the

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<v Speaker 1>right direction, We're getting close. There had to be a

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<v Speaker 1>triggering moment last week, was there?

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<v Speaker 2>Not that I'm aware of at all, because I can

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<v Speaker 2>tell you Willie, and if you remember, there was last summer,

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<v Speaker 2>and towards the end of last summer, the Bengals had said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>things are not going well at the upper levels of

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<v Speaker 2>the county in with the Bengals organization. But notwithstanding that,

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<v Speaker 2>our team at Frost, my team that I was working with,

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<v Speaker 2>we continued to meet with the Bengals almost every day,

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<v Speaker 2>and part of that was to advance the necessary capital

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<v Speaker 2>repairs and maintenance and operations of that stadium, as well

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<v Speaker 2>as planning for a comprehensive renovation. We met with them

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<v Speaker 2>almost every day, and in the last several weeks we

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<v Speaker 2>were meeting with them every day. We were meeting, we

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<v Speaker 2>were talking to them at night through weekends. The MoU

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<v Speaker 2>that was entered into which was another significant step forward.

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<v Speaker 1>Ten days ago, two weeks ago. Yeah, right before our

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<v Speaker 1>termination had on the nation. She said things are going great. No,

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<v Speaker 1>and they are going great, and so the Bengals agreed.

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<v Speaker 1>Now here's what's interesting. The Bengals in twenty twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>put in forty five million into the stadium. The county

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<v Speaker 1>put in forty million, but we came in on a

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<v Speaker 1>budget because we were managing that process. We came in

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<v Speaker 1>under budget by six million dollars. Fast forward again, the

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<v Speaker 1>MoU that was just passed by the board and approved

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<v Speaker 1>by the Bengals. Have the Bengals putting in one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and twenty million to redo the East and West Club

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<v Speaker 1>lounges and to redo the suites one hundred and twenty million,

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<v Speaker 1>put in about sixty Well, but here's the thing. The

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<v Speaker 1>county put in thirty five million.

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<v Speaker 2>They put in thirty five million to do the work

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<v Speaker 2>that was necessary to match the one hundred and twenty million, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and that involved the vertical transportation, seats, electrical upgrades. Those

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<v Speaker 2>were all necessary things because the escalators and elevators they're

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five years old, are terrible. They've they've got to

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<v Speaker 2>be replaced.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's break it down to this eight nred so called

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<v Speaker 1>eight hundred and thirty million, that there was a piece

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<v Speaker 1>in there the state had to come up with like

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<v Speaker 1>three hundred and fifty million. Right when I had on

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<v Speaker 1>the Speaker of the House, had on the President of

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<v Speaker 1>the High Senate, they all said that money's not available.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what they said. It's not coming out of the

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<v Speaker 1>general revenue fund. It's got to be something off to

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<v Speaker 1>the side. And so the eight hundred and thirty million

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<v Speaker 1>the NFL was putting in money, I think one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and some million had the Bengals putting in money. Attack,

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<v Speaker 1>assuming the three hundred and fifty million from the state

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't happen, what does that do to the deal?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, in that case, if it does not happen at

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<v Speaker 2>all at all, which we don't expect, all right, we

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<v Speaker 2>don't expect that because of what has already happened in

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<v Speaker 2>the legislature, where the House approved six hundred million to

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<v Speaker 2>the Cleveland Browns six hundred million based on a projection

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<v Speaker 2>that Cleveland can build a banks project out by the

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<v Speaker 2>airport over the next thirty years thirty years, over the

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<v Speaker 2>next thirty years, and as part of those projections, they

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<v Speaker 2>also said every single Cleveland Browns game will be sold

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<v Speaker 2>out for thirty years at eight hundred dollars a ticket.

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<v Speaker 3>Regardless of that, here's where we are.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to tell you about what is the most

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<v Speaker 2>positive thing, and that's where we're trying to get the

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<v Speaker 2>support from Speaker Huffman and the Senate President McCauley, is

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<v Speaker 2>that we my team prepared a comprehensive sports gaming revenue

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<v Speaker 2>proposal and in short, Wellie, what that does. It does

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<v Speaker 2>not take any money from the general revenue F one,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't take a dime from education, doesn't take a dime

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<v Speaker 2>for mental health or any other soccial services. What it

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<v Speaker 2>does do is say Ohio is in the top five

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<v Speaker 2>in the country in sports gambling. Why because we have

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<v Speaker 2>professional teams in football and baseball, and we also happen

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<v Speaker 2>to have a higher state and you see every one's

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<v Speaker 2>when they're competitive. But regardless, we're in the top five.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not in the top five though, in what comes

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<v Speaker 2>back to the state. So here's what we said. We

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<v Speaker 2>said to the governor last fall. We met with the

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<v Speaker 2>governor last fall in our offices, and we present it

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<v Speaker 2>to him a gaming revenue proposal that would have an

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<v Speaker 2>incremental fee, and I'll tell you what that fee is

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<v Speaker 2>in a second.

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<v Speaker 3>That would be charged to draft Kings and fan.

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<v Speaker 2>Duel and bet three sixty five and bet MGM incremental fee.

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<v Speaker 2>We've now taken that fee down to two percent of

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<v Speaker 2>their gross revenue. So on one hundred dollars, bet two

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<v Speaker 2>percent gets charged. It can either go back to the

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<v Speaker 2>better or they can just subsorb it. That brings in

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred million a year in cash to the state.

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<v Speaker 2>Over ten years, that would bring a billion dollars back

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<v Speaker 2>to Hamilton County for both stadiums, potentially for tqol when

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<v Speaker 2>you know ten fifteen years from now when that needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be renovated. Those are all dollars that would be

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<v Speaker 2>available in the same dollars. Could you also go up

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<v Speaker 2>to Cleveland, Columbus And we did it not just for

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<v Speaker 2>the major league stadiums. We did it for the minor

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<v Speaker 2>league stadiums like in Dayton. In Dayton Toledo Columbus.

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<v Speaker 1>But Ton Gableman, what happens if that doesn't happen. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk because some of my politicians' friends say, we're not

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<v Speaker 1>going to do that either. That increases taxes, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>a fee charge only to the people who want to bet.

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<v Speaker 1>But what if that three hundred and fifty million doesn't happen, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>then what happened here?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to challenge you back on that. Though it

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<v Speaker 2>is not a tax, it is a privilege fee, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's the same thing to happen in Tennessee. They went

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<v Speaker 2>from a twenty percent tax to a one point eight

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<v Speaker 2>percent fee and the vetter doesn't necessarily necessary have to

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<v Speaker 2>pay for it. Bet MGM or draft Kings can absorb that.

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<v Speaker 2>Because Willie, they are making ten billion a year off

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<v Speaker 2>of Ohio.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't have one employee in Ohio. They don't have

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<v Speaker 3>one employee, they don't.

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<v Speaker 2>Have sticks and bricks in Ohio except for bet MGM,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no investment in Ohio.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll ask you again, what happens if that doesn't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>You're making the argument it should happen, right, What if

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't occur and the state says none of that,

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<v Speaker 1>We're not going to do it. That question is answered

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<v Speaker 1>by saying what.

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<v Speaker 2>That question is answered by what we had put in

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<v Speaker 2>the termsheet that the Bengals had accepted. Is you take

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<v Speaker 2>this eight hundred and thirty million dollar program that would

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<v Speaker 2>be done over three years, and it gets moved back

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<v Speaker 2>downward again because if you remember, we started at one

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<v Speaker 2>point three billion, both the county and the team agreed,

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<v Speaker 2>let's focus on the stadium, not everything around it, different

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<v Speaker 2>from every other NFL stadium instead of increasing the cost,

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<v Speaker 2>so back so you reduce the amount until funds can't

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<v Speaker 2>come in and everybody's contribution then gets a There you're.

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<v Speaker 1>Ready for the big question. Yes, sir, you know more

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<v Speaker 1>about this than anyone. You deal with the Bengals directly,

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<v Speaker 1>Katie Blackburn and also her family and Mike Brown and

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<v Speaker 1>Paul H. Brown and Troy etc. And although in house lawyers,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera, do you feel in your heart of hearts

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<v Speaker 1>that the Bengals want to strike a deal and stay

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<v Speaker 1>in Cincinnati and not go to San Diego or Mexico City.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, because, as I said Willie, we have been working

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<v Speaker 2>with them for years. We were not involved in the

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<v Speaker 2>original lease agreement that was done by the Prosecutor's office

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<v Speaker 2>and done by an out of town consultant.

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<v Speaker 1>Thirty we're talking thirty years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Rod Deck and Wolf. They hired a law firm

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<v Speaker 2>out of town. But every single modification of that lease.

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<v Speaker 2>Since then, I have been involved in and the first

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<v Speaker 2>modification came within seven months when we structured a deal

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<v Speaker 2>with the Bengals and with the city to start the

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<v Speaker 2>whole development of the riverfront. That was in nineteen ninety eight.

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<v Speaker 2>In every single agreement since then, the Bengals have been

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<v Speaker 2>willing to modify that lease in order for development to proceed.

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<v Speaker 2>The Bengals have There's been some implication the Bengals have

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<v Speaker 2>not dealt in good faith. They have dealt in absolute

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<v Speaker 2>good faith with an absolute passion to get a deal

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<v Speaker 2>done in Cincinnati. This family wants to stay in Cincinnati,

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<v Speaker 2>and Willy We've looked at deals all across the country.

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<v Speaker 2>The only time any any team, an MLB team, NFL

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<v Speaker 2>team leaves is when they've been invited to leave because

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't have the right people at the table that

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<v Speaker 2>were saying, what's in your best interests, what are your constraints,

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<v Speaker 2>what are my best interests, and what are my constraints?

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<v Speaker 3>And you build a bridge, and we had built that bridge.

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<v Speaker 1>So right now as we sit here this afternoon on

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<v Speaker 1>a Thursday, you're out and Densmore Shull is in George

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<v Speaker 1>Vincent's in charge, I guess of Densmore. Where is the

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<v Speaker 1>deal as we speak this Thursday.

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<v Speaker 2>Afternoon, This Thursday afternoon, really, as I said when we

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<v Speaker 2>were talking originally, it is. We have positioned the county

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<v Speaker 2>extremely well to get this deal done.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you optimistic even though you're out.

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<v Speaker 3>I am absolutely optimistic.

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<v Speaker 1>I am five weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>I am hopeful.

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<v Speaker 2>I am hopeful as a lifelong Cincinnatian that we get

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<v Speaker 2>this deal done because it should get done because we

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<v Speaker 2>were on the right path, and it was a path

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<v Speaker 2>that said there are going to be fair and equitable

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<v Speaker 2>contributions from the team, from the county and from the state.

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<v Speaker 2>And if the state didn't come through, we're still going

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<v Speaker 2>to move forward and different, different than what's happening in Buffalo,

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<v Speaker 2>Nashville as well as you know other cities that are

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<v Speaker 2>building new stadiums. We don't have to spend two point

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<v Speaker 2>five billion. The Washington Commander Stadium is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>four billion, Chicago's at five. I mean, it's endless. But

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<v Speaker 2>the Bengals and the county said we can sustain this

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<v Speaker 2>stadium and it can go beyond ten, fifteen, twenty years,

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<v Speaker 2>but we have to invest now. We have been conservative

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<v Speaker 2>but it's been well maintained and you know the Bengals

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<v Speaker 2>management has maintained that building.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm ask you this, Tom gableman, have you thought about

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<v Speaker 1>suing the county commissioners for wrongful discharge?

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<v Speaker 2>No, Willie, you know, look, I've done this. We have

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<v Speaker 2>done this at a substantially reduced rate. I will tell

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<v Speaker 2>you that, you know, so the answer is no. So

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<v Speaker 2>the answer the answer is no because there's there. This

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<v Speaker 2>is first of all, I'll just tell you this from

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<v Speaker 2>the heart. And actually my son, my youngest son, reminded

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<v Speaker 2>me of this the other night when he said, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't get an opportunity in your own hometown. They

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<v Speaker 2>have such an impact the way that you have had

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<v Speaker 2>on that river front. You're proud of what you've done.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm damn proud of what we've done. I'll stand on

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<v Speaker 2>what we've done. We have, we have the record and

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<v Speaker 2>it proves it.

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<v Speaker 3>Tom.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to run. Time is always short. But you

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<v Speaker 1>also have leukemia CLL and we have about a minute

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<v Speaker 1>remaining as your health as I.

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<v Speaker 2>Speak, I am going through treatment right now, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think most importantly, the hours have been extremely long. We

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I worked was out visiting my son in

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<v Speaker 2>Denver and his family, and we got the Bengals deal

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<v Speaker 2>done on the MoU that advanced this entire project forward,

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<v Speaker 2>agreed on the renovation.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you by this?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh? Extremely No, this is Willie. This is heartbreaking.

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<v Speaker 2>This is heartbreaking because when you work as many hours,

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<v Speaker 2>and there are so many times that first deal in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety eight, everybody said, we can't get it done,

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<v Speaker 2>and the Bengals we're going to leave town because we

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<v Speaker 2>had to get a deal done with Norfolk Southern, the

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<v Speaker 2>Cincinnati City of Cincinnati on railroad and the Bengals and

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<v Speaker 2>the city one week. We got one week to get

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<v Speaker 2>it done. We got it done. The next deal that

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<v Speaker 2>we did was the was the Bank's deal, which Todd

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<v Speaker 2>portun god rest his soul told me so many times, Willy,

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<v Speaker 2>stop it, Tom. It's we're never going to g have

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<v Speaker 2>the banks. And now that banks. Here's what's striking. When

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<v Speaker 2>we said we were going to build two stadiums in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety six and the voter said sixty two percent

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<v Speaker 2>voted in favor of it, we said we will get

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<v Speaker 2>about three hundred million in.

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<v Speaker 3>Economic impact off those stadiums.

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<v Speaker 2>Today and U see's economic report, because we've been working

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<v Speaker 2>on that for about a year with UC it is

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<v Speaker 2>two point five billion a year. The Bengals put a

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars in to our community, the Reds put a

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars into our community, and we have another five

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<v Speaker 2>hundred million from that banks. It is bar none, Willie,

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<v Speaker 2>because we researched it. There is there is not another

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<v Speaker 2>urban redevelopment project in this country that throws off two

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<v Speaker 2>point five billion in economic impact. Bar none. Go to Dallas,

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<v Speaker 2>go to Charlotte, go to Austin, go to Green Bay,

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<v Speaker 2>wherever you want to go. This is the most successful

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<v Speaker 2>project and we weren't even done yet.

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<v Speaker 1>Right well, Tom, thank you, thank you. I'll call upon

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<v Speaker 1>you in the future if hopefully your treatment goes well.

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<v Speaker 1>And I wish you and yours nothing but the best.

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<v Speaker 1>Willie love being on your show.

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<v Speaker 2>You are a great American and I appreciate being here

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<v Speaker 2>and I will focus on my health. I have a

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<v Speaker 2>little more time to rest and I look forward to

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<v Speaker 2>being with my family and my first granddaughter.

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<v Speaker 1>Good luck and godspeed, Thank you all. Let's continue News

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<v Speaker 1>Next on News Radio seven hundred WW