WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:10.720 They were identical twins, raised the same and living nearly 2 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:15.400 identical lives, but how they differ from other twins is 3 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:19.920 that both of them would become killers. The first murder 4 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:23.039 came in nineteen seventy one, and then nearly twenty years 5 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:27.000 later another series of murders would leave four victims dead 6 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:32.399 and investigators without answers. Between the two of them, there 7 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:35.600 would be five victims total who lost their lives. But 8 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:39.520 the fact that they didn't operate and kill together left 9 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:43.479 behind a very interesting question about how they both became murderers, 10 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:48.880 and the age old topic of nature versus nurture suddenly 11 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:52.320 found itself at the center of the story with a 12 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:57.880 whole new perspective. This is the story of the Spahalski Brothers, 13 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.960 a k a. The Killer Twins. 14 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:07.680 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram. 15 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:16.519 A true crime podcasting. The following material in more maturial 16 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:39.799 audience listener discretion. Okay, so last week I said I 17 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:41.480 was in a bit of a funk. I'm doing a 18 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:44.480 lot better, I want to say that, but there's still 19 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:49.599 a clear separation between Nicole's energy levels and mine. Oh 20 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:51.319 my god, you need to tone it down. 21 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:55.799 I know, we probably this is where we would have 22 00:01:55.879 --> 00:02:00.480 benefited from recording this because I was just unhinged. You 23 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.560 what you mean camera Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yes, with 24 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:04.159 a video. 25 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.200 You were unhinged for the last ten minutes for sure. 26 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:10.280 For the record. When I say tone it down, I 27 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.120 mean live your life. But I just I'm not there 28 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:13.400 with you. 29 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.560 I know we're at very different levels lately, very different, 30 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:20.680 which is actually usually opposite typically because usually yeah, it's 31 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:25.240 very much so reversed. But yeah, I don't know I'm 32 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:26.840 doing I'm doing good over here. 33 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:28.479 I guess you guys should have seen her hit the 34 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.000 record on on her soundboard. She like did a like 35 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.039 raise her arm up above her shoulder and like did 36 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:35.879 a bunch of circles like she was winding up, and 37 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:38.199 then came raining down on the record button. It was 38 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:39.159 it was something to see. 39 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:41.400 It was a lot. It was a lot, I'll admit 40 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:45.000 it was a lot, but it felt really like natural. 41 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.120 It just felt like I had to get it out 42 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:48.560 fair enough. 43 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:51.560 I mean, if it's natural, do it, just like if 44 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:54.919 it feels natural to sign up over on Patreon. So 45 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.360 a big shout out to our patrons who signed up 46 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:02.159 this week Jennifer Sarus, Natalie Smith, David g Hattie, Dustman, 47 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:07.199 Elaine l Beverly Boher Elle, and Brand Dizzle. They all 48 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:09.840 signed up over on Patreon, and it just felt natural 49 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.240 for them too to look at that exclusive content behind 50 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:12.680 the scenes. 51 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.080 You're welcome. I just set you up, so damn good there. 52 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:19.479 No, I'm just good at taking a setup and figuring 53 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:21.560 it out from there. It's all on me, not you. 54 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:22.759 Yeah, it's all you. 55 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:23.400 It's all me. 56 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:27.000 It's all you. I'm just here, You're just here. I'm 57 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:30.199 just here, as I was being completely not spend just 58 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:34.039 like sat there staring at me so pretty much. Maybe 59 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:38.199 I need a better audience for my shenanigans. Yeah, whatever 60 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:38.639 that was. 61 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:42.639 I do have to say, though, before we get any further, 62 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.199 this is another two parter. We're having back to back 63 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:49.400 two parters. My bad. I'm sorry. That's totally on me. 64 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.039 I found this case and I'm like, oh, I got 65 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:55.360 to do this story. So I started researching, and by 66 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.000 the time I was like deep into the research and 67 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:00.840 it was too late to switch cases, I realized it 68 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:02.240 was going to be a two parter. So I did 69 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:04.319 not plan back to back two parters. 70 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.560 It all happens, and we hadn't had one for quite 71 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:09.759 some time. That's true. I think you're okay. 72 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:10.960 I think you think so. 73 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:11.360 I do. 74 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:13.639 Okay, Well, I appreciate that. I'll try not to do 75 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:15.840 two partters here for in the next few episodes, but 76 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.240 we got to get through this one, and ding dang, 77 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:20.639 it is a story and a half. I gotta say that. 78 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:22.800 Well, I just also have to say, some people really 79 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:25.680 like two parters. That's that's true, and there isn't a 80 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:28.079 crazy wait in between, so we can do it. 81 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.800 That's true. I mean, when we first started this podcast, 82 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:33.160 we were only releasing one episode a week, and you 83 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:34.639 had it to wait. You had to wait a whole 84 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:38.199 week for the second part. So the fact that you know, 85 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:40.439 two episodes a week, it's it's a lot better for that. 86 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.399 Regard now totally. But yeah, this does sound like a. 87 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:45.720 Doozy, it does. Are you ready for it? 88 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:46.600 I am okay. 89 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.040 Well, let's dive right into the story, shall we. There 90 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:53.519 is something inherently strange about growing up alongside someone who 91 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:56.439 has lived the exact same life as you, not in 92 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.920 the general sense of siblings sharing a household, but in 93 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:02.639 the much rare case of twins, two people who arrive 94 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.160 in the world at the same moment, raised under the 95 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.839 same roof and shape by the same parents, the same routines, 96 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:13.839 and the same expectations within the same environment. From the outside, 97 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:17.120 it can seem almost like a controlled experiment. If two 98 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.399 people are given nearly identical starting points, how different can 99 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:23.079 their lives really become? No, of course it's not an 100 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.480 experiment their children, we understand that, But for most families 101 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.199 the answer is simple. Even identical twins grow into their 102 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:35.240 own person. They develop different interests, different personalities, different ways 103 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.680 of seeing the world, different tastes. They might look the same, 104 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:43.319 but over time their similarities begin to fade beneath everything 105 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:47.000 that makes them individuals. One might settle into something stable 106 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:50.759 and predictable, while the other drifts into a completely different direction. 107 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.360 There is usually a point where their paths begin to 108 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.680 split clearly enough that no one would confuse their lives 109 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.839 ever again. But on the other hand, sometimes that separation 110 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:05.959 never really happens. Now, when people look back on stories 111 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.759 like this, they often search for a clear explanation, something 112 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:15.079 in the upbringing, sometimes in the environment, sometimes in the 113 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:19.879 psychology that makes sense of everything that happened, But the 114 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:23.560 truth is rarely that clean. More often, what you find 115 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:27.199 is a collection of ordinary details taken on their own, 116 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.800 They don't seem like they should lead anywhere significant. It 117 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:33.959 is only when those details are placed in order, when 118 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:36.839 the full timeline is laid out, that the weight of 119 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.000 it all starts to become clear. And even then, though 120 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.279 it doesn't always answer the question people keep coming back to, 121 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:48.120 how can two people begin in the same place and 122 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:53.600 end up leaving behind something so difficult to explain? Now, 123 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:56.959 this is a story that unfolds in two different pieces. 124 00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:59.639 At first, it looks like one life going off course 125 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.920 path that leads into violence, into prison, into futures that 126 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:07.560 seem contained within consequences of one single act. But as 127 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:11.040 time goes on, another story begins to take shape right 128 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:16.759 alongside the other one. Robert and Stephen Spahalski were born 129 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:21.360 on December twelfth, nineteen fifty four, in Elmira, New York, 130 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:23.839 a small city in the southern part of the state 131 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.040 that at the time offered a fairly ordinary kind of upbringing. 132 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.920 Elmira was not a place that people typically associated with 133 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:35.319 extreme violence or high profile crimes. It was the kind 134 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:38.839 of community where families stayed rooted, where their lives and 135 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:42.759 routines were rather predictable, and where most followed a linear 136 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:47.279 path forward from school to work to family. It was 137 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:51.600 in many ways the American dream kind of life, you know, 138 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.600 the happy family life. Now. Right from the beginning, Robert 139 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.839 and Stephen shared everything. See. They were in fact identical twins, 140 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.879 the only children of Bernard and Anita Spihalski, and their 141 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:06.439 early lives unfolded side by side in a way that 142 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:10.519 few people ever experienced. They grew up in West Elmira, 143 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:15.639 attending Elmira Free Academy, moving through the same classrooms and neighborhoods, 144 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:19.279 and having the same social circles. People who knew them 145 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.199 during those years often saw them as a pair two 146 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:26.879 boys who were closely connected, not just by appearance, though, 147 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:29.319 but by the way they moved through the world together. 148 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.639 They were both athletic, both involved in gymnastics, and Robert 149 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:38.480 in particular also spent time competing in track. They were social, outgoing, 150 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:41.480 and didn't stand apart from other teenagers in any dramatic 151 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:45.840 way outside of being twins. If anything, they just blended in. 152 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:49.200 There was nothing in those early years that clearly pointed 153 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:52.799 towards but their lives would eventually become no obvious signs 154 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:55.639 that would have stood out to teachers, neighbors, or even 155 00:08:55.639 --> 00:09:01.080 people close to them as something deeply concerning teenagers. They 156 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:04.879 were energetic, restless, and at times unpredictable, but nothing hinting 157 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:09.840 towards you know this darkness. It was honestly just regular 158 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.639 behaviors that adults often expect young people to grow out 159 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:16.759 of as they move into adulthood. But there were changes 160 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.480 happening beneath that surface. When the twins were around twelve 161 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.240 years old, their parents divorced, and from that point forward 162 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.320 they were raised primarily by their mother. It is difficult 163 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.759 to measure exactly how much that shift affected the two, 164 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:33.799 but it marked a very clear turning point in the 165 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.120 structure of their home life. The stability that had been 166 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.919 there in the early years was now altered, and like 167 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:44.720 in many family situations, that change carried some very quiet consequences. 168 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:47.919 The routines they once had became a lot less consistent, 169 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.000 boundaries were less defined, and the sense of order began 170 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.320 to loosen. As they moved into their teenage years, the 171 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:59.799 lack of structure started to show. Now that shift wasn't 172 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:02.720 some that was immediate or dramatic enough to draw any 173 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:06.799 sort of concern, But it was steady things regarding the 174 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.679 kinds of decisions that they were making, the environments they 175 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.200 were moving through, and the way that they responded to authorities. 176 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.519 It all pointed to a direction that at the time 177 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:20.919 may not have seemed extraordinary, but in hindsight it clearly 178 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:26.039 marked the beginning of something much deeper now. Robert in particular, 179 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:30.440 began attracting attention from law enforcement in July of nineteen 180 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:33.559 seventy one, at just sixteen years old, he was arrested 181 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:37.120 for driving a stolen vehicle. This was, of course, no 182 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:40.720 minor incident by any means, certainly not something that could 183 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:44.399 be brushed off as a misunderstanding. For example, the theft 184 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:48.799 itself required, you know, intent, taking something that didn't belong 185 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.240 to him, then using it and getting caught in the process. 186 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.039 It was an offense that placed him firmly on the 187 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:58.600 radar of local authorities, even if the consequences at that 188 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.519 stage were still relatively limited, being the fact that he 189 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:02.440 was a juvenile. 190 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.360 Well, yeah, but I wasn't expecting that crime to be 191 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.519 so intense. I was thinking it would have been something 192 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.279 a little bit more minor, you know, but right boom. 193 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:12.960 Bang, right into the theft of a vehicle. 194 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:13.759 That's a big deal. 195 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:16.799 It is, It definitely is. It's not something that should 196 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.679 be downplayed. I mean, it's certainly not murder or anything, 197 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:22.960 but it's definitely more than stealing a chocolate bar or 198 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:23.440 a couple. 199 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:24.879 Dollars from someone you know exactly. 200 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:29.440 Now, what made this more concerning was how quickly it 201 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:30.480 was followed by something else. 202 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:30.720 Though. 203 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.879 That's the thing here, because only weeks after that arrest, 204 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.559 Robert was charged once again, this time for setting fire 205 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:41.279 to part of his high school. Oh now, this arson 206 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:44.440 introduced a different kind of behavior into the mix, something 207 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:48.240 more destructive, far less impulsive than taking a car for 208 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.720 a drive, but still escalating. It showed that there was 209 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:55.759 a willingness to cause damage without a concern for the 210 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:59.039 broader consequences, a mindset that was beginning to move beyond 211 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:04.039 simple teen rebellion. He was suddenly no longer concerned for infrastructure, 212 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.039 for jobs, for people's safety, that sort of thing. And 213 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.840 by October of that year, he had pleaded guilty to 214 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.600 the earlier charge and was sentenced to serve time in 215 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:17.120 jail on weekends. The fact that he was a juvenile, right. 216 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:21.440 Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean that's super minor, but it 217 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:22.519 could have a big impact. 218 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.679 I see. Yeah, So this sentence was meant mostly to 219 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:29.320 be like a corrective behavior rather than being like, you know, 220 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:32.240 you're just going straight to jail, and it's being purely punitive. 221 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:35.039 That way, it allowed him to still remain in school, 222 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:37.919 have an education, and be home during the week while 223 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.639 still experiencing consequences of his actions and being behind bars 224 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:44.279 on the weekend when typically kids his age are out 225 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:44.840 with freedom. 226 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:46.840 Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say, was 227 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:48.840 that would be when he has a bit more free 228 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:50.879 time to get in trouble exactly. 229 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.600 So it's kind of a rehabilitation, serve some time, and 230 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:57.399 still don't miss a beat. 231 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:59.120 In your life, which I don't hate. 232 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:02.000 I don't hate it either, to be fair, I don't, 233 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:06.240 but maybe I don't. I think that's there should be 234 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:08.559 a little bit more to it than just oh, go 235 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.120 home for the week. You know, maybe you should have 236 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:15.399 counselors following you through school or something like that, or 237 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.720 maybe you're still getting your schooling while behind bars. You know, 238 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:23.200 there's a classroom and a juvenile facility something like that, yeah, 239 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:25.559 because there's still a lot of freedom that comes with that, 240 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:30.360 and it gives a sense of are you really serving 241 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:34.960 the full consequence for your actions? You know, almost kind 242 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:37.039 of like, well, I set fire to this and I 243 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.879 stole a freaking car, and now I only have to 244 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.000 serve two out of seven days in jail for a 245 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:44.600 little while. What kind of consequences are those really? 246 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.679 I mean, it's something, but yeah, you can still get 247 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:51.799 in a lot of trouble during the week. But I 248 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:53.480 don't know. But he is in an age that he 249 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:58.000 can definitely be reformed, right, So it's difficult. I'm kind 250 00:13:58.000 --> 00:13:59.320 of in the middle of it. 251 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:02.240 Well, there's a point I want to make here, but 252 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.919 I do have it written in this next few sentences 253 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:07.639 in paragraphs, so I'm just going to continue here. Okay. So, 254 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:11.240 for many teenagers, the kind of intervention often serves as 255 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.639 a massive turning point, you know, a moment where the 256 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.879 reality of the legal system becomes tangible enough to shift 257 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.360 the behavior moving forward. However, in that moment, it didn't 258 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.399 seem to have the intended effect on him. Instead of 259 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:27.480 acting as a warning, the experience appeared to reinforce something 260 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:31.879 else entirely the idea that he could engage in criminal behavior, 261 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:37.159 face consequences, and still return to mostly his normal life 262 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:42.399 without lasting consequences. So that fact, did it really do 263 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:46.360 serve its purpose the jail time he's out still doing 264 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:49.240 his regular thing. Yeah, just slightly reduced. 265 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:53.559 I think for some kids it could probably really work, 266 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:58.960 but for some it really wouldn't. And it's kind of 267 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.200 a catch to one to where you find out later 268 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:03.399 whatever dinner work. 269 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:04.960 I think you're right on that. Actually, it's a good 270 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.759 point now. Stephen during this time was also known to police, 271 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.960 though his interactions definitely were not in the same degree 272 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.799 as his brother Roberts were. However, on the night of 273 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:17.759 November twenty third, nineteen seventy one, a man by the 274 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.320 name of Ronald Ripley was going about what should have 275 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:24.480 been a routine evening. He was forty eight years old 276 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.080 and managed a local business in Elmira Heights called the 277 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:32.440 Salad Master Kitchen. Witnesses would later place him inside the 278 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:36.360 store around eleven thirty pm, moving through the closing process, 279 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:38.320 you know, finishing up all the tasks of the day 280 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:42.000 before heading home. For someone in this position, it was 281 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:45.480 likely a very familiar routine. You know, locking up, checking 282 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.080 everything one last time, turning off lights, preparing for another 283 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.919 ordinary shift close and at that same point, shortly after that, 284 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.279 he was seen again. A witness reported seeing Ripley driving 285 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:00.159 at approximately eleven forty five, his car moving through the 286 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:04.519 area without anyone or anything appearing at a place. There 287 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.159 was no identification of distress in the situation, no sign 288 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:10.480 that anything was wrong. It looked like the end of 289 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.919 a normal day. But some time after that moment, something 290 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:18.159 had changed, because in the following day, November twenty fourth, 291 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:24.559 concern began to build when Ripley did not return home. Now, 292 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:27.000 because Ripley was nowhere to be found the next morning, 293 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.679 it was enough to prompt someone close to him, his 294 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.519 mother in law, to go looking for him, and when 295 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.120 she arrived at the store, she didn't find anything at first, 296 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.799 but when she made her way to the basement, that's 297 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:42.840 when she made a horrific discovery. The scene there was 298 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:45.600 violent in a way that left little room for any 299 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:51.519 sort of interpretation. Ronald Ripley had been killed. Investigators were 300 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:53.720 soon called to the scene and quickly determined that the 301 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.879 attack had happened inside the building, in a space that 302 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.840 Ripley would have felt comfortable with a place where he 303 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.840 had control of his surroundings, and that detail alone suggested 304 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:08.119 something very important that whoever was responsible had either been 305 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:12.279 allowed inside or had entered without raising any sort of suspicion. 306 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:17.599 Investigators believed that Ripley had been approached from behind, but 307 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.720 there were no signs of a struggle, so this likely 308 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.880 indicated that he didn't see this coming, and from there 309 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.720 he was struck on the head with a hammer, a 310 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:31.720 forceful impact that would have immediately either disoriented him or 311 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.799 at the very least rendered him unable to defend himself. 312 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:39.680 But however, the attack didn't end there. After the initial blow, 313 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:43.799 the assailants switched and used a knife. Ripley was then 314 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.599 stabbed over and over repeatedly, and the sheer number of 315 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:50.119 wounds made it clear that this was not a momentary 316 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:53.119 act of panic. It was sustained and carried out with 317 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:56.200 a level of intensity that went beyond what would have 318 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:01.759 been necessary to incapacitate someone. The violence continued, and it 319 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.039 was clear that this attack was about ensuring he would 320 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:09.000 not survive, and so Ripley died right there in the 321 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.960 basement of his own workplace, right where he was found. 322 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:16.160 I just hate that, Like when someone is in an 323 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:20.279 area that they're comfortable in and you know they're not 324 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.279 really checking behind them and they're just doing their day 325 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:26.799 to day and something like this terrible happen. Something this 326 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.759 terrible happens. I don't know. It makes you just question 327 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:30.680 life a little bit. 328 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:32.599 Well, that's supposed to be when you're the most safe, 329 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.880 right bail your surroundings, a place where you oh, nor 330 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:40.119 you operate. And yeah, it can make things feel so 331 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:41.240 dark because. 332 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:45.319 He's probably was doing what he's done thousands of times. Yeah, 333 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.400 and then but this night it just and. 334 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:50.839 Then all it took was for some fucked up individual 335 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.359 to enter that space and he's no longer safe now. 336 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:58.079 There were there were no clear signs of fourth century 337 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.799 I want to make that clear. There was no obvious 338 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.799 indication that there was a robbery that had gone wrong 339 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.599 or anything, no immediate suspect who could be tied directly 340 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.480 to the scene through any physical evidence either. Early theories 341 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:14.599 explored the possibility that Ripley had encountered someone early that night, 342 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.200 perhaps offering a ride or coming into contact with someone 343 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.920 outside the store, but the evidence inside it suggested otherwise 344 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:27.000 this had been a controlled environment, and whoever was responsible 345 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.799 had been close enough to strike from behind without alerting him, 346 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.640 and that implied a level of familiarity, or at least 347 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:39.839 a calculated approach that allowed them to move without being noticed. Now, 348 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.519 as investigators began working through potential leads, they turned their 349 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:48.200 attention towards individuals already known to local law enforcement. Elmira 350 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.039 was not a large city, and police were familiar with 351 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:55.119 those who had a history of criminal activity, particularly younger 352 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:58.400 offenders who had recently come into contact with the system, 353 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:00.880 and one of the names that surface during that process 354 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:05.680 was one of the brothers, Stephen Spahalski. Now, he was 355 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:08.759 known to police, but not in a way that immediately 356 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:10.759 placed him at the center of a crime like this. 357 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.680 He was brought in for questioning like others were, and 358 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.240 initially denied any involvement. At that stage, there was nothing 359 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.559 concrete that forced investigators to press harder. There was no 360 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.200 physical evidence that even tied him to the scene. There 361 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:26.160 was no witnesses that placed him in the building at 362 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.720 the time of the attack. There was nothing. But as 363 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:34.359 the investigation continued, something shifted, and during a subsequent round 364 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:39.559 of questioning, Stephen changed his account and he admitted that 365 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:43.279 he was the one responsible for the attack, telling investigators 366 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.559 that he had killed Ronald Ripley. 367 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.599 Damn and he's still a teenager at this point, sixteen. 368 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:53.880 Did he freaking work there or something new? Did he 369 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:54.599 know this guy? 370 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:56.960 Not that I'm really aware of. 371 00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:02.079 Holy Hannah, Okay, that is, I don't know. For someone 372 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.200 that didn't really get into trouble much, I guess, well 373 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.400 a little bit, and is that young and then does 374 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.839 a crime like this. It's kind of just I'm freaking hinged. 375 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.079 Now. I do have to be clear, I don't know 376 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.640 if he knew him or not. There definitely has to 377 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.640 be some level of connection, whether it's a short term 378 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.480 they met that night or what, because being in that 379 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.160 store with him shows that they knew each other to 380 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:33.799 some degree, right, Yes, And according to Stephen, the encounter 381 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.599 that happened inside it escalated after Ripley actually made an 382 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.839 unwonted sexual advance towards him. Now, whether true or not, 383 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:46.720 that account also has some level of familiarity because they 384 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.720 are inside the store together at least having a conversation 385 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:54.640 when this alleged sexual advance occurred. Huh, okay, so they 386 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.200 must have known each other to some degree the extent, 387 00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:01.720 I have no clue. Now, he framed this violence as 388 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:04.640 a reaction something that had been triggered in that moment 389 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.599 with that sexual advance, But even within his own version 390 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:09.720 of events, the nature of the attack raised a lot 391 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.839 of difficult questions. The level of force that was used, 392 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:15.279 for example, went far beyond what would be expected in 393 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:19.640 a brief confrontation. You know, maybe you're offended by the advance. Sure, 394 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.440 maybe you might hit and punch someone quickly. You're not 395 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.440 going to all of a sudden go to that. 396 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:29.079 Level of murder unless you're almost mentally unstable in a way. 397 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.880 For sure, or extremely homophobic or whatever. Right, but you've 398 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:34.559 got to have something deep in you to start that 399 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.720 and ignite that to begin with. Also, the initial strike 400 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.799 with the hammer was delivered from behind, suggesting that whatever 401 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.599