Speaker 1: You'll be away five seventeen. Do you want to report
Speaker 1: a UFO hanging in? We don't want to report every
Speaker 1: thirty one. Do you wish to report a UFO over hey,
Speaker 1: we want to one of those areas thirty one.
Speaker 2: Do you wish to find a report of any kind
Speaker 2: of it? I wouldn't know what kind of reports clouds
Speaker 2: time areas thirty one me neither.
Speaker 3: There were seven one golf.
Speaker 2: If it was anybody above us to pass us, like
Speaker 2: thirty seconds ago.
Speaker 3: We were sending one top of golf negative.
Speaker 2: Okay, off fi the UFO.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's murder two nine o'clock. Yes, if you passed over.
Speaker 2: I got I don't know what it was, but it's
Speaker 2: from at least to three thousand feet above us. See,
Speaker 2: I passed right over the top.
Speaker 3: Of us ninety one one.
Speaker 2: You just called both to be the fours they're after
Speaker 2: staying the airplanes.
Speaker 1: He is to God on an unidentified object every liberty
Speaker 1: four call or calm on an unidentified flying object.
Speaker 4: A Welcome to UFO Chronicles, a place where people share
Speaker 4: their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had
Speaker 4: an encounter, I would like to be on the show.
Speaker 4: You can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. How are you
Speaker 3: all doing. I'm Nick Canter and this is the UFO
Speaker 3: Chronicles podcast. Tonight we meet Lee in Illinois to hear
Speaker 3: about a mysterious project that Lee and his stepdaughterre witnessed
Speaker 3: on a summer's day in July of two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3: The sighting left Lee perplexed and is hoping to find
Speaker 3: other people that possibly could have seen the same object. Lee,
Speaker 3: now retired, spent more than three decades with the United
Speaker 3: States government as a technical enforcement officer and criminal investigator
Speaker 3: in undercover operations, where he specialized in electronic surveillance and
Speaker 3: control deliveries. Lee would also recount his near death experience
Speaker 3: from twenty nineteen, where he found himself in a purlescent
Speaker 3: white room and was asked are you ready to go?
Speaker 3: Lee is up next, but first, if you enjoyed the
Speaker 3: show and you would like to help support the podcast
Speaker 3: on Patreon, you can do this for as little as
Speaker 3: one dollar a month, head on over to patreon dot
Speaker 3: com forward slash UFO Chronicles podcast. You can also find
Speaker 3: a link in the description of this episode any help
Speaker 3: is very much appreciated. Now on with the show. Hello, Lee,
Speaker 3: welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: Hello, how are you today? I am great?
Speaker 3: Thank you Lee. It is great to have you join
Speaker 3: us today and you'll call in from Illinois in the US. Yes, sir, Now, Lee,
Speaker 3: you have some experiences to share with us. Would you
Speaker 3: like to start at the beginning please, sir?
Speaker 1: Sure, you bet it.
Speaker 2: My career has been with federal government and over spans
Speaker 2: over thirty years. I started with the Army and went
Speaker 2: to work for US Custom Service, and then went back
Speaker 2: to the Army and was a Defense Department employee. And
Speaker 2: my pretty much my entire career was spent doing special
Speaker 2: investigations and undercover operations along the way. I had obviously
Speaker 2: access to and assigned Thermo imagery, night vision equipment, pretty
Speaker 2: good optics, cameras.
Speaker 1: All along the way.
Speaker 2: And we got initially in contact because I was searching
Speaker 2: for witnesses that possibly have ever seen a sphere that's described.
Speaker 2: I've recently written a book it's called Orbit, and in
Speaker 2: chapter one it describes a sighting that happened in sighting
Speaker 2: was true. It was something that my daughter, my stepdaughter,
Speaker 2: and I had happened to us approximately.
Speaker 1: Twenty eleven, twenty twelve. I believe it was.
Speaker 2: There might even been a year or two earlier than that.
Speaker 2: And it was a hot summer day, July, probably ninety
Speaker 2: five degrees out and we had a pool in our
Speaker 2: backyard and the stepdaughter and I was in the pool
Speaker 2: and we were playing catch with the nerf ball, and
Speaker 2: she stopped and pointed up and asked, what was that?
Speaker 1: And I turned around and I looked.
Speaker 2: And the best way to describe it, if you go
Speaker 2: to my Twitter account X account, you'll see pictures of
Speaker 2: it on there. Imagine three perfectly round spheres oriented two
Speaker 2: at the bottom, one at the top in a triangle orientation,
Speaker 2: and they were all connected with like these pipes or arms.
Speaker 1: And the size of the spheres were.
Speaker 2: I would say the size of a maybe a smaller
Speaker 2: two story home. I often describe it the size of
Speaker 2: my barn that we had out back. They were very large,
Speaker 2: and they were approximately two hundred meters from us. When
Speaker 2: we saw this, it wasn't moving in the sky. It
Speaker 2: was just sitting there. And she, my daughter, asked me,
Speaker 2: you know what is that? And I told her, you know,
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Let's just watch it. And the
Speaker 2: thing was reflective. All three spheres were almost like a
Speaker 2: stainless steel or even chrome reflection, had no flex skin
Speaker 2: like a balloon, did not flex at all.
Speaker 1: It was close enough that you could see it appeared solid.
Speaker 2: In that particular day, there was a due south wind,
Speaker 2: probably ten fifteen miles an hour. We live in the prairie,
Speaker 2: and every day in the prairie is a windy day.
Speaker 1: If you live out in the country and not in
Speaker 1: the city, which we did. And we continued to watch it.
Speaker 2: At this point, me and her both at the edge
Speaker 2: of the pool and looking up at it, and we
Speaker 2: noticed the music we had playing it stopped, probably within a.
Speaker 1: Minute.
Speaker 2: It flexed almost violently from side to side. Imagine putting
Speaker 2: a ping pong ball in a mason jar and giving
Speaker 2: it a shake. It flexed like that, and all three
Speaker 2: spheares flexed and wobbled from side to side. And then
Speaker 2: it moved a little bit due north. And when it moved,
Speaker 2: I noticed that the pool itself had a certain vibration
Speaker 2: to it, like the water was rippling, kind of imagine
Speaker 2: a ultrasonic jewelry cleaner when you turn moseon.
Speaker 1: How that water's sort of ripples.
Speaker 2: The water in the pool was doing that, and I
Speaker 2: noticed it, but my stepdaughter was just completely fixated on
Speaker 2: watching this craft. And it wobbled one more time, and
Speaker 2: then it accelerated due north. And I can't say that
Speaker 2: it was an instantaneous acceleration, but it did start slow
Speaker 2: and then it went to almost hyper speed. And like
Speaker 2: I say, it went due north, and it also went
Speaker 2: up and where our sky is there, it's unobstructed, and
Speaker 2: I would guess within two and a half seconds it
Speaker 2: was gone completely out of sight. And so this was
Speaker 2: something like I say, that was each one of those
Speaker 2: spears were larger than a two story home, and they
Speaker 2: all three were connected in a triangle formation. And when
Speaker 2: it took off, it took off and it did not
Speaker 2: change any position at all. Imagine two balls on the
Speaker 2: horizon and then one ball orientated in the middle above
Speaker 2: the other two, and then these pipes connecting them, and so.
Speaker 1: The acceleration that occurred.
Speaker 2: Is I mean to me, is almost unimaginable. I've been
Speaker 2: on numerous Air Force bases and test base facilities, and
Speaker 2: I've seen a large percentage of the inventory of the
Speaker 2: aircraft that we have and how they move and This
Speaker 2: was absolutely nothing like that. And the conversation that as
Speaker 2: soon as it was gone, she looked at me and
Speaker 2: you know, what was that? And I go, before we
Speaker 2: even talk about it, I want you to draw it,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to draw it. And so we both
Speaker 2: right then and there, before we did anything else, we
Speaker 2: took the time and drew what we saw, just because
Speaker 2: I wanted to compare, you know.
Speaker 1: What she believed she saw what I believed I saw.
Speaker 2: At the time, she was only twelve years old, maybe
Speaker 2: so old enough to understand things, you know, approaching junior
Speaker 2: high grade, and not certainly.
Speaker 1: Not little kid. She was not a little kid at
Speaker 1: that time.
Speaker 2: And you know, she drew exactly what both of us saw,
Speaker 2: and we've we've talked about it occasionally, you know, throughout
Speaker 2: the years.
Speaker 1: Hey, you remember when we saw that.
Speaker 2: Oh and when the thing left, the music came back on,
Speaker 2: and so, you know, we both thought that was kind.
Speaker 1: Of freaky, and that happened, Like I say, probably, I'm going.
Speaker 2: To say it was a year or so before twenty ten,
Speaker 2: twenty eleven, around two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: After that, she was hot too. Let's go see if
Speaker 2: we can find UFOs. You know, she was at that
Speaker 2: perfect age, and so of the evening we would get
Speaker 2: in the truck and drive. We lived basically right on
Speaker 2: the Illinois River, and there's a military installation to our west,
Speaker 2: and we have nuclear facilities to the east, and so
Speaker 2: you know, we would drive back and forth and just
Speaker 2: look for UFOs, you know, and of course we didn't
Speaker 2: really see anything.
Speaker 1: One night, we thought we saw a triangle, but you know,
Speaker 1: we can't verify it for sure. But that thing that
Speaker 1: we saw was the middle of the day, hot summer day.
Speaker 2: There was no doubt what it was and what we saw,
Speaker 2: and how large it was, and the way that it
Speaker 2: moved in the way that accelerates it.
Speaker 1: I looked for.
Speaker 2: Rivets, I looked for scenes, I looked for little logos
Speaker 2: on the thing, and there was nothing at all like that.
Speaker 1: It was probably the one of the most fascinating things
Speaker 1: I saw. And as I said to you earlier when
Speaker 1: we were chatting, I wrote a book.
Speaker 2: Called Orbit, and it's out there now, and that sighting
Speaker 2: is basically chapter one of the book, and that's how
Speaker 2: the book starts. And so we uh, as I said before,
Speaker 2: I was assigned all kinds of gear for my my job,
Speaker 2: and you know, I had the ability to use thermo
Speaker 2: images any any hour of the day that I wanted
Speaker 2: night vision.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It was basically all this stuff was housed in my
Speaker 2: rexsac or the vault in the back of my pickup truck,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: And so with something that happened.
Speaker 2: Early on in my career combined with what happened in
Speaker 2: that backyard the swimming pool, I was never a UFO
Speaker 2: guy before this, but I sort of became a UFO
Speaker 2: guy that day.
Speaker 3: If that makes any sense, it certainly does. That is
Speaker 3: surely an interesting sightingly, Yeah, it.
Speaker 1: Was special, that's for sure. Special and unique.
Speaker 3: It's not a particular design to your conventional sightings that
Speaker 3: we get does seem to be very rare but not
Speaker 3: unheard of. Now, obviously this is an audio show, so
Speaker 3: people at the minute can't see the design, but I
Speaker 3: will make these links available down in the description and
Speaker 3: on the website so you can see the drawing Lee
Speaker 3: has done. But think of something like a molecule structure
Speaker 3: that is probably the closest to it. And also so
Speaker 3: it's something that we've seen before in actually in a
Speaker 3: crop circle, believe it or not.
Speaker 1: Oh really, see I'm not aware of that.
Speaker 3: Yes, crop circle in nineteen ninety two, that was Olwen
Speaker 3: Barnes in Wiltshire and that's the identical design. And I
Speaker 3: think it's also the logo of doctor Stephen Greer the
Speaker 3: c Setti they used that for their logo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have seen that, and when I first saw it,
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, that looks similar. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you're familiar with Grant Cameron, but I was speaking to
Speaker 2: him one day and told him about it, and he
Speaker 2: did a little bit of research on it and he
Speaker 2: thought that there was possibly a couple of sightings in England.
Speaker 1: That were similar.
Speaker 2: But I never did get any other reports on him
Speaker 2: or was able to read anything else about him. So
Speaker 2: occasionally when I'm on X, I post a bolo be
Speaker 2: on the lookout for this object, and then I'll post
Speaker 2: that picture. And I've just got very very few responses
Speaker 2: on that particular picture.
Speaker 3: What we'll do is I'll post out and see if
Speaker 3: we get any anything back.
Speaker 2: I'm one of those that I'll go on X, but
Speaker 2: I'm more of a stalker, you know, sort of just
Speaker 2: kind of be in the background, and you know, I'll
Speaker 2: go into some of the spaces to listen, and you know,
Speaker 2: some of it gets you want to call it wacky,
Speaker 2: but I've for my entire life and my entire career
Speaker 2: it's been observation research, you know, very methodical type of investigations,
Speaker 2: and so my approach to these UFO things is very
Speaker 2: similar to you know, how I would do any type
Speaker 2: of special investigation, and hearsay is nice, but I want
Speaker 2: to see some evidence, which I understand I don't have
Speaker 2: evidence on these three spheres other than a second witness,
Speaker 2: and you know, two people seeing something is way better
Speaker 2: than just one seeing it. You know, I've been asked
Speaker 2: before if I was a whistleblower, and I'm definitely not
Speaker 2: a whistleblower. However, I did witness something in the very
Speaker 2: early nineties, and I'm hoping that at some point I'll
Speaker 2: be able to come forward and talk more about it.
Speaker 2: It was something that I witnessed in a couple others.
Speaker 2: I was with the Army at that time and we
Speaker 2: were doing a special investigation. It was basically for a
Speaker 2: environmental type impact study. I can't go into all the details,
Speaker 2: but something came up during the investigation and it got
Speaker 2: shut down very very quickly, and we were basically told to,
Speaker 2: you know, go go investigation something else, and of course
Speaker 2: signed some NDA's in that.
Speaker 1: But there's a couple people that are.
Speaker 2: Aware of this and they're trying to basically unblock the
Speaker 2: roads so we can maybe talk about it more, if
Speaker 2: that makes any sense.
Speaker 3: It certainly does intrigue in.
Speaker 1: N Yeah, I know, it's a hell of a tease, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well that's the way it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And with that incident, it was very brief, very short,
Speaker 2: and you know, I was young enough at that time
Speaker 2: that I'm just wait whatever the colonel said, Man, that's
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. And life went on, and we were told,
Speaker 2: you know, not to discuss it anymore, and so we
Speaker 2: never did, you know. And then after this thing that
Speaker 2: we saw in the backyard in two thousand and nine ish,
Speaker 2: we'll say, you know, sort of reinforced something that that
Speaker 2: that we saw back in the early nineties. And that's
Speaker 2: really when for me I sort of became more interested
Speaker 2: in the topic than just following it on the news.
Speaker 2: And so I started at around that point, and even
Speaker 2: a little before that point, I would turn the thermo
Speaker 2: imagery up to the sky, the night vision if we
Speaker 2: were out in the evening doing operations and we had downtime.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if you've ever looked through
Speaker 2: night vision on a sorry night, but it's incredible. You'll
Speaker 2: see literally billions of stars instead of all the shiny
Speaker 2: ones that you know, you're sure you can see the
Speaker 2: Big Dipper at night, but if you look through night vision,
Speaker 2: that Big Dipper is going to be full of stars,
Speaker 2: if that makes any sense.
Speaker 6: There.
Speaker 3: They are wonderful tools.
Speaker 2: You know, you can any moment that you would look
Speaker 2: up in the sky with night vision at night, on
Speaker 2: a clear night, you'll immediately see satellites and they're very distinct.
Speaker 2: They don't blink, they they move at a consistent pace
Speaker 2: across the sky. Some of them are faster than others,
Speaker 2: and they certainly don't make any turns. And occasionally you'll
Speaker 2: see something similar to that that will all of a
Speaker 2: sudden make a one hundred and eighty degree turn and
Speaker 2: then you know you you found one.
Speaker 1: Whatever that was, you found one.
Speaker 2: And you know, we've we've made notes of those, and
Speaker 2: we even have several that we've videoed that I can
Speaker 2: share with you, you know, certainly offline here recently within
Speaker 2: the last probably two or three years, we've been noticing
Speaker 2: more of the orbs in the sky.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you follow Chris Blood.
Speaker 2: So he posts a lot of the orbs that he sees,
Speaker 2: and we've we've been seeing similar and we've certainly put
Speaker 2: several of them up on x.
Speaker 1: X seems to be the my go to platform.
Speaker 2: I'm on Instagram and I'm on a few others, but
Speaker 2: it seems like I spend the most of.
Speaker 1: My time on X. It is.
Speaker 3: It's the place where I'm all the time. I've always
Speaker 3: got to open on my desktop.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm the same. I have Facebook and Instagram, but
Speaker 3: they don't get the attention like I give to X.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So there's, like I say, the ones that I post
Speaker 2: that our videos are usually videos that I have taken myself. There.
Speaker 1: There was a recent one that me, I think it's
Speaker 1: pretty profound.
Speaker 2: I was driving down our highway, a little two lane
Speaker 2: highway out in the middle of the plains of Illinois,
Speaker 2: and I saw bald leagles coming. The thing was flying
Speaker 2: straight at me. And you know, we see them occasionally.
Speaker 2: We live near a small river, so where our house is,
Speaker 2: i'll probably see a ball to eagle maybe once a week,
Speaker 2: maybe two three times a month, and so anytime you
Speaker 2: see one, it's special. And so I saw this one
Speaker 2: coming straight down the highway flying. I mean, he was
Speaker 2: hauling the mail man. He was flying very very fast.
Speaker 2: So I pulled the truck over and I got my
Speaker 2: iPhone ready to take a picture when he come up close.
Speaker 2: And so he got alongside of me, and I real
Speaker 2: quick hit the picture taking button like twice, once and
Speaker 2: then another time, and then he flew on by. And
Speaker 2: so later, you know, I looked at that picture, and
Speaker 2: the first picture, I was a little disappointed because I
Speaker 2: didn't zoom in. I just you know, if you zoomed
Speaker 2: in on the eagle, you could see it was an eagle,
Speaker 2: and you can see it was bald eagle.
Speaker 1: But you know, I was a little bit disappointed in
Speaker 1: the picture.
Speaker 2: Then I swiped over and I looked at the second one,
Speaker 2: and imagine, it's hard to explain and audio only. If
Speaker 2: we were on video, I could have you look at
Speaker 2: the pictures, but there was a telephone pole in both pictures.
Speaker 2: That imagine that as your reference point, okay, And then
Speaker 2: on the first picture you see the bald eagle and
Speaker 2: you see the distance the eagle is from the telephone pole,
Speaker 2: and bald eagles will fly anywhere from fifty five miles
Speaker 2: an hour all the way up to ninety miles an hour,
Speaker 2: depending how you know fast are going and if they're
Speaker 2: headed straight down or whatever. But this thing, like I say,
Speaker 2: it was flying fast. So then I swiped over to
Speaker 2: the second picture, and you can see the bald eagle
Speaker 2: did not change very much in terms of distance away
Speaker 2: from that telephone pole. And then in the second there's
Speaker 2: three anomalies that showed up underneath the bald eagle, and
Speaker 2: they're very faint when you look at the picture, but
Speaker 2: when you zoom in on it, you can clearly see
Speaker 2: one as a saucer shape, and the other two are blurry,
Speaker 2: so it's hard to make a definite shape of what
Speaker 2: the other two are. But the reason I say that
Speaker 2: this image to me is profound evidence is because you
Speaker 2: have the camera is stopped in a fixed point away
Speaker 2: from the camera, you have a telephone pole that is
Speaker 2: also at a fixed point, it's not moving, and.
Speaker 1: Then you have a bald eagle that has a known
Speaker 1: speed in flight that very very much did not move
Speaker 1: in the picture.
Speaker 2: So my point is that by the position of the
Speaker 2: eagle to the telephone pole. You can tell that I
Speaker 2: snapped those two pictures nearly at the same time.
Speaker 1: And now in the second.
Speaker 2: Picture you have three anomalies show up. Okay, those anomalies.
Speaker 1: Are not anywhere visible in first picture. So let's imagine that.
Speaker 2: We'll just say one of those anomalies was another bald
Speaker 2: eagle flying in the opposite direction.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: If that was would have been the case, you would
Speaker 2: have still saw it in the first picture. At best,
Speaker 2: it would have made twice the distance that the original
Speaker 2: eagle made going southbound.
Speaker 1: If does that make sense to you? Okay?
Speaker 2: And so I had somebody in the ex community that
Speaker 2: has the ability to analyze photographs, analyze the photograph, and
Speaker 2: this person believes that whatever those three anomalies are, they
Speaker 2: have a high electric field based off of whatever the
Speaker 2: software is that she uses to analyze them.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I'd be more than happy to
Speaker 1: send you these photos. Nick. They're to me, like I say,
Speaker 1: I think they're quite profound and have.
Speaker 2: Indicate evidence, mostly because I know that I took them,
Speaker 2: and I can recreate that same photograph by the location
Speaker 2: of where it occurred, and even the very most fast.
Speaker 1: We have falcons in our area that are certainly faster.
Speaker 2: Than a bald eagle, But what's the odds of three
Speaker 2: falcons overtaking a bald eagle position in literally less.
Speaker 1: Than one second. It's not very likely. And the fact
Speaker 1: that the one anomaly you can clearly see is a
Speaker 1: saucer shape.
Speaker 2: And so I posted that photo on x I thought
Speaker 2: it would probably get some sort of traction, but you know,
Speaker 2: it really didn't. There were a couple of people interested
Speaker 2: in it, and I'd be more than happy to send,
Speaker 2: you know, the photos out to anyone else that would
Speaker 2: like to see them. I don't know if I'm lucky
Speaker 2: or unlucky, but I seem to be in the right
Speaker 2: place at the right time on a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 3: Certainly do interesting stuff. Yeah, I'll post them. I'll post
Speaker 3: them as well on the website so people can take
Speaker 3: a look at that. That's interesting. Yeah, nothing like nothing
Speaker 3: like seeing a bold eagle.
Speaker 7: Beautiful creatures, yes, absolutely, And obviously when I took it,
Speaker 7: that was what I had hoped to capture, you know,
Speaker 7: and instead, known my luck, I captured some something else
Speaker 7: good capture.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wonderful stuff. Okay, now you're your two thousand and
Speaker 3: eight sighting. Now, you didn't really have any interest in
Speaker 3: the subject before before you witness.
Speaker 2: Not really other than, you know, if I would hear
Speaker 2: something on the news. And even in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, the Nimitz report hadn't come public yet,
Speaker 2: and some of the other stuff really hadn't come public.
Speaker 2: But I did take an interest in the freedom of
Speaker 2: press disclosure where a lot of the missile silo officers
Speaker 2: come forward. I did watch that, and I was interested
Speaker 2: in that because the whole time, what I witnessed in
Speaker 2: ninety one ninety two has always been in the back
Speaker 2: of my mind. But I just never, you know, didn't
Speaker 2: really care that much about the topic to you know,
Speaker 2: change my trajectory. I guess I'll call it.
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Speaker 3: What about during your time in the service, do you
Speaker 3: ever hear anyone else, maybe any whispers people are kind
Speaker 3: of saying that it's and stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, when the original thing happened in ninety one
Speaker 2: ninety two, I was a young, younger guy for sure,
Speaker 2: And when your command tells you forget about it, don't
Speaker 2: talk about it, that's just kind of what we did.
Speaker 2: I mean, the guy that I was partners with, we
Speaker 2: hung out on the weekends, we hung out all the
Speaker 2: time because kind of you know, when you're in a
Speaker 2: group like that, your group sort of becomes your family.
Speaker 2: Your teammates are your teammates on and off the field.
Speaker 2: I'll say, and command told us don't talk about it,
Speaker 2: so you know, we're good people. We're not going to
Speaker 2: talk about it, And we never did even years after
Speaker 2: when at that time I was out in Oklahoma and
Speaker 2: I'm originally from Illinois area and I had an opportunity
Speaker 2: to go back to sort of the prairie lands, and
Speaker 2: I took that. So I basically went from that team
Speaker 2: to a different team. Even looking back, we never really
Speaker 2: ever talked about it afterwards, And so I can imagine
Speaker 2: when command comes to any young guy and says, hey,
Speaker 2: shake your mouth about this. You didn't see this, this
Speaker 2: didn't happen, You're going to be like Roger. That's or
Speaker 2: a good copy.
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I don't see shit.
Speaker 3: If they say, don't talk about it, just for a reason.
Speaker 3: I mean, I had a guest on a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks ago. He was up on Jaybear up in Alaska,
Speaker 3: and he witnessed something. He was with his colleague. He
Speaker 3: was worried that if he did tell anyone, no one
Speaker 3: to believe him, so they just didn't go on site
Speaker 3: and start telling people.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, I again that there's a group that's trying
Speaker 2: to clear a path for what we witnessed in the nineties,
Speaker 2: and I'm letting that group do what they have to do,
Speaker 2: and if they're successful, then I'll be more than happy
Speaker 2: to talk about it. But it was something that at
Speaker 2: the time I had maybe a friend from my hometown
Speaker 2: that Oh yeah, me and so and so we saw
Speaker 2: UFO one night. Well, yeah, we're did it involve beer?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not from Missouri, but I want to,
Speaker 2: you know, show me. I want to see it, right,
Speaker 2: And so I never ever took the UFO topic to
Speaker 2: really be anything more than all right. I've always had
Speaker 2: this philosophy that when they stop the space shuttle program, right,
Speaker 2: that seems to be about when you know, according to
Speaker 2: the powers to be that you know, the space shuttle
Speaker 2: program ended, Well, do you really believe that they just
Speaker 2: ended it? Or do they have something better now that
Speaker 2: they're not ready to show us yet. So I'm a
Speaker 2: believer that most of the stuff that people see is
Speaker 2: probably going to trace back to the government. I fully, fully,
Speaker 2: in my heart, believe that they have machines that would
Speaker 2: just blow the normal person's minds. And so I don't
Speaker 2: know that they're necessarily an HI non human intelligence. I
Speaker 2: think that a great majority are probably you know, built
Speaker 2: in the good old USA or maybe China. The book
Speaker 2: that I wrote or it sort of takes you in
Speaker 2: that direction. I don't want I don't want to give
Speaker 2: the plot away. It's it's a fiction and it's fun
Speaker 2: it's a fun book. It has heroes in, it has
Speaker 2: good guys, has bad guys. But the premise of the
Speaker 2: book is a defense contractor possibly has a recovery team,
Speaker 2: and so a defense contractor certainly is outside of the
Speaker 2: scope of US government. So the book sort of take
Speaker 2: leads you down a path that has a good argument
Speaker 2: for both non human intelligence and defense contractors playing games.
Speaker 2: And so you know, like I say, I don't want
Speaker 2: to spoil the whole book, but it's going to take
Speaker 2: you on a wild ride of very very accurate investigations
Speaker 2: into defense contractors and how they operate and how the
Speaker 2: government operates. And so like the book, I personally believe
Speaker 2: that there's probably a little bit of both going in.
Speaker 3: And you know, this type of book, you obviously had
Speaker 3: to get it security reviewed by the Defense Office, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the Defense Office of pre Publication is one,
Speaker 2: and then Apartment of Homeland Security also has one for
Speaker 2: people that have worked there. And when I retired, I
Speaker 2: retired from Apartment of Homeland Security. And so the the
Speaker 2: fact that the book is a fiction, fact of it's
Speaker 2: a fiction that's funny its face, is way less scrutiny
Speaker 2: because the storyline certainly is a fiction, but any of
Speaker 2: the material that's in it is that's described in it
Speaker 2: has been described in public domain, and so everything that's
Speaker 2: in there, Like there's a portion where they discuss the
Speaker 2: Knimics incident in Commander Fraverer citing of the TIC TAC.
Speaker 2: All that is public information. There's nothing in it that
Speaker 2: is going to reveal any of the classified sensor data.
Speaker 2: There's talks of sensor data in there, but it's all
Speaker 2: sensor data that is out there in public domain.
Speaker 3: Very very interesting. So UFOs n hi the government who
Speaker 3: is behind them exactly?
Speaker 2: And the second book is almost finished?
Speaker 3: Neck the second book? Okay, so Orbit is your first book,
Speaker 3: so a curved path following a single point first book.
Speaker 3: What's the name of your second one? Do you have
Speaker 3: a title yet?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right now.
Speaker 2: The title of the second book is Spectra, and the
Speaker 2: spectra is the intensity of light along the wavelength. My
Speaker 2: wife is like, where the hell did you come up
Speaker 2: with these titles?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: And my titles are based off of an incident that
Speaker 2: will be used in the book somewhere. And then it's
Speaker 2: basically the definition and so you know, orbit is a
Speaker 2: is a fixed path along a fixed curve path along
Speaker 2: a single point. Well, that's the definition of an orbit.
Speaker 5: You know, great stuff.
Speaker 3: What I'll do is, as always, I'll put the links
Speaker 3: in the description and on the website. You know, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of people which interest is kind of Cloak
Speaker 3: and Dagger type stories, and i'd imagine it's one of
Speaker 3: those books where travels around the world as well, kind
Speaker 3: of like an Ian flem and James Bond type.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and so far I was quite shocked. I've had
Speaker 2: I have several sales in Germany and several in England,
Speaker 2: and even yeah, in Eastern Europe. There's there's been several
Speaker 2: purchases in Eastern Europe. And so you know, for for me,
Speaker 2: like I say, I thought maybe my four cousins and
Speaker 2: my three friends might buy it. When I wrote it
Speaker 2: as a retired guy, it was something I always wanted
Speaker 2: to do. Is I enjoy writing short stories and stuff,
Speaker 2: and so I sat myself down and spent almost a
Speaker 2: year writing thing. And I have an editor who's been
Speaker 2: a very very close friend for years and years and years.
Speaker 2: She stepped forward and said, I'll edit the thing for you.
Speaker 2: You know, here's the warning. Some you got to remember
Speaker 2: this is about Tier one operators doing investigation work, and
Speaker 2: so there's going to be some salty language and some
Speaker 2: military humor, i'll say in it, So be prepared for.
Speaker 5: That as you'd expect.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, the teams that I worked with
Speaker 2: my whole career, we spent probably more times with each
Speaker 2: other than we do with our families. We go to
Speaker 2: work on Sunday and might not come home until next Sunday,
Speaker 2: you know, And so there's a lot of salty language
Speaker 2: happens throughout the week.
Speaker 3: And actually, this sounds like my type of book, and
Speaker 3: I think it would make good reading.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just goes to show, isn't it, because you're
Speaker 3: you know, you've got got an interesting story around it,
Speaker 3: and you've got all this background into the kind of
Speaker 3: the things that go on, regardless whether it's fiction. It's
Speaker 3: a kind of insight into what happens behind the scenes
Speaker 3: and the things you know, you don't generally hear about.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, absolutely. When I told my editor that, you know,
Speaker 2: I was in the process of writing this, she kind
Speaker 2: of laughed and said, okay, I'll edit it. How bloody
Speaker 2: is it going to be? And because we always talked
Speaker 2: about going to write a very vicious, bloody book, right
Speaker 2: and I'm through chapter four and nobody's died yet. Okay, Well,
Speaker 2: you know your readers are going to expect something, so
Speaker 2: get killing people, you know, and we basically, I don't
Speaker 2: want to give it all away, but the focus turned
Speaker 2: from violence to very very thorough, methodic investigations with being
Speaker 2: performed by a cast of very good characters. I think
Speaker 2: you'll be surprised that the characters that are in the book,
Speaker 2: A lot of people are telling me, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure which one's my favorite one, but they're all
Speaker 2: pretty good. The guy named Deuce is one of the
Speaker 2: bosses for the government, and he's a real guy that
Speaker 2: I worked with. A lot of these characters are based
Speaker 2: off of people that were either on my team or
Speaker 2: on a past team, and so a couple of them
Speaker 2: I had to have them autograph my first book. Right,
Speaker 2: I took it to them. I'm like, here, does she
Speaker 2: need to sign this?
Speaker 3: So is this kind of like a like a Tom
Speaker 3: Clancy type style?
Speaker 2: Right here? Yes, yes, I would say so. I mean
Speaker 2: that can't put yourself on a pedestal. But Tom Clancy
Speaker 2: his books are just unbelievable. But imagine I want to
Speaker 2: be Tom Clancy. You know, it's probably more like that
Speaker 2: or Jack Carr. Or Jack Carr is in the news
Speaker 2: now and has he's does the terminal lists and his
Speaker 2: stuff is you know, obviously he lived all that, and
Speaker 2: so he has a very accurate take on his fiction,
Speaker 2: and I think I have a very accurate take on
Speaker 2: on my fiction. It's it's going to be super accurate
Speaker 2: in terms of gear used, in terms of drones, used, weapons, communication,
Speaker 2: all that stuff is going to be pretty spot on.
Speaker 2: I've got a cousin who's a Chinook pilot down at
Speaker 2: Fort Rutger, and you know, he read it, and of
Speaker 2: course he had one comment to say about one of
Speaker 2: the Chinooks that are in it. He goes, you know,
Speaker 2: you didn't get that right, don't you? And I go, well,
Speaker 2: I go think about this, Tommy, if I got it right,
Speaker 2: how many more pages would that have been to explain it?
Speaker 2: And he goes, good point, good point, and so so
Speaker 2: I guess my point is, you know, even my military
Speaker 2: cousins thought that everything was really really super spot on.
Speaker 3: We wish you the best to luck with that, Lee.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, It's enjoyable, and you know, Nick, I really
Speaker 2: appreciate you getting a hold of me, and I've certainly
Speaker 2: enjoyed the chat. Seems like there's several topics that we
Speaker 2: could go down different roads and we'd probably be here
Speaker 2: all day long.
Speaker 3: Well, I would be interesting in hearing about your near
Speaker 3: death experience.
Speaker 1: Lee.
Speaker 2: Let me just say that it happened May tenth, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. Okay, and I retired in December of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: and I had planned on hiking Appalachian Trail at the
Speaker 2: end of May twenty nineteen, So my whole January threw
Speaker 2: all the way up until the near death thing happened.
Speaker 2: You know, I was probably in some of the best
Speaker 2: shape I've ever been in. I'd been training very, very
Speaker 2: hard for the Appalachian Trail, and we're talking hiking with
Speaker 2: Rock probably three to four days a week for anywhere
Speaker 2: from four to eight miles a time. You know, I
Speaker 2: felt that I was in really, really great shape. I
Speaker 2: also feel looking back that I once I separated from service,
Speaker 2: I had PTSD, and you know, I was in that
Speaker 2: camp of no, I don't have PTSD. Everybody else's just
Speaker 2: messed up, right, and it was something that I had
Speaker 2: to deal with. I don't want to say that it
Speaker 2: was anything that I did or seen or had happened
Speaker 2: to me throughout my years in the government. It was
Speaker 2: more a loss of team and family. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: when guys like us, when we sign up for these
Speaker 2: kind of jobs, we sign up understanding you may see
Speaker 2: some really crappy stuff. You may get yourself into, you know, gunfights,
Speaker 2: you may you may have a lot of things happen
Speaker 2: to you. And so we understand that for the most part.
Speaker 2: We're not like signing up to be a truck driver
Speaker 2: in the army and then you know, you run over ied.
Speaker 2: You know, truck drivers don't sign up for horrible things,
Speaker 2: but guys in the kind of work that we do,
Speaker 2: we sign up for anything. And so I for me,
Speaker 2: it was a tremendous loss of who's going to take
Speaker 2: care of my guys now that I'm not there. I
Speaker 2: always felt like I'm the one that's going to make
Speaker 2: sure they go home at night, even though that's you know,
Speaker 2: all of us feel that way, but you know, each
Speaker 2: of us feel that way for all the guys on
Speaker 2: the team. And so I told you that to now
Speaker 2: we'll fast forward to the near death thing. Myself and
Speaker 2: family were out for dinner. It was my wife, my son,
Speaker 2: my daughter, and we were at a local restaurant. Our
Speaker 2: community is like, I don't know, six or seven thousand people.
Speaker 2: It's it's not very big town, and so it's one
Speaker 2: of those towns where most people know everybody. So we
Speaker 2: went out for dinner and when we were walking back
Speaker 2: to the car, are this This guy was walking down
Speaker 2: the sidewalk towards the car. Now, the kids got in
Speaker 2: the car. I got in the car, but the guy
Speaker 2: approached my wife and I'll never forget how the guy look.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know who Cliff Howard is.
Speaker 2: Cliff Howard is an actor, Ron Howard. It was the
Speaker 2: opin the Andy Taylor Show or the Andy Griffith Show,
Speaker 2: and he became a fabulous director and producer. Well, it
Speaker 2: was this guy looked just like Ron Howard's brother, Cliff Howard,
Speaker 2: which is kind of a strange looking dude. So he's
Speaker 2: talking to my wife. The three of us are in
Speaker 2: the car. She gets in the car and says, wow,
Speaker 2: that was weird, and we're like, what what was weird? Well,
Speaker 2: the guy says to me, does your husband know what
Speaker 2: your family is to him does he know or and
Speaker 2: everything is? And of course the kids were, you know,
Speaker 2: junior high. They touched their nose and said not it,
Speaker 2: meaning you know, that's sort of a thing. If you
Speaker 2: hit your nose and say not it. Whoever the last
Speaker 2: one is to touch your nose, they're going to be
Speaker 2: the one that's it. Well, I didn't touch my nose,
Speaker 2: and so I was it. She put the car and
Speaker 2: gear and started to drive away, and I almost immediately
Speaker 2: started having black and white vision. I describe it if
Speaker 2: you remember the old televisions, a black and white TV.
Speaker 2: You had to move the rabbit ears. The picture was
Speaker 2: kind of snowy, but you could see the picture. It's
Speaker 2: exactly what was happening. The vision started to deteriorate and
Speaker 2: everything was black and white, kind of snowy. And we
Speaker 2: had to go pick up another kid that was coming
Speaker 2: to our house for an overnight. And the entire time
Speaker 2: that we're picking up that kid, inside my head, I'm
Speaker 2: recognizing that I'm having some vision issues. And then I
Speaker 2: started having not chest pains, but I call it a
Speaker 2: sour stomach. If I maybe eat acidic foods on an
Speaker 2: empty stomach, my stomach gets real sour and then I
Speaker 2: have to have a couple times and then I'm fine.
Speaker 2: And so we picked the other kid up and then
Speaker 2: we started driving. We had probably I don't know eight
Speaker 2: mile drive to our house out in the country, and
Speaker 2: as soon as we start to get out in the country,
Speaker 2: have this acidic stomach starting real bad, and my wife's
Speaker 2: asking me, are you okay? And I go, yeah, I go,
Speaker 2: I'm just I got a sour stomach and I'm having
Speaker 2: trouble my vision.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Nick, the entire time that this is going on, my
Speaker 2: brain is functioning perfectly. I'm self analyzing everything I'm going through.
Speaker 2: You know, why is my stomach hurt and how is
Speaker 2: it connected to what my vision is seeing. This isn't
Speaker 2: making any sense, and you know, my wife is continuing
Speaker 2: to drive and continuing to ask and check on me,
Speaker 2: and it got to a point where I just checked
Speaker 2: out from even acknowledging her. I went into one hundred
Speaker 2: percent self analysis of what's going on with me. And
Speaker 2: about the time that I thought, WHOA, maybe I'm having
Speaker 2: you know, maybe I'm having a serious problem here, like
Speaker 2: maybe a heart attack or something. In a snap of
Speaker 2: a finger, I was no longer in that car. I
Speaker 2: was in a room that I've described as it was
Speaker 2: a very, very white room. The walls were like this
Speaker 2: purlescent white, just like it was alive, like the white
Speaker 2: was alive. And it was a rectangular shape room. I
Speaker 2: looked up to the ceilings in walls, and you couldn't
Speaker 2: even see where the seams were. It was almost like
Speaker 2: imagine a room three D printed. There was no seams anywhere.
Speaker 2: The wall in front of me, it was like that
Speaker 2: wall was almost like a big screen TV that was
Speaker 2: showing everything that was going on in the car. I
Speaker 2: was perfectly seeing the response of my wife, the response
Speaker 2: of my kids, the panic that was going on in
Speaker 2: the car. I could see all of that. And then
Speaker 2: there was this I call him. This dude was next
Speaker 2: to me asking me questions. Now, Nick the whole time.
Speaker 2: I have broken a few bones over the years, and
Speaker 2: I have like so arthritis stuff, you know. And the
Speaker 2: first thing I noticed when I realized I was in
Speaker 2: that room, nothing hurts nothing. My knee don't hurt, my
Speaker 2: wrist doesn't hurt, you know, my back doesn't hurt. I
Speaker 2: felt a thousand percent great. That felt wonderful. It was
Speaker 2: the most undescribable wonderful feeling. Ever, and the guy's talking
Speaker 2: to me, and I almost couldn't focus on him because
Speaker 2: of how I felt. Right. I was like, I'm checking
Speaker 2: out everything, my feet, my knees, my back, my wrist,
Speaker 2: all this stuff. I'm just and I'm also taking in
Speaker 2: what's going on in the car because I can see
Speaker 2: it and I can hear it. And I felt like
Speaker 2: there were three or four other people to my left side,
Speaker 2: but I could never quite see them. I could see
Speaker 2: their outlines. And the guy that was to my right
Speaker 2: asking me questions, I could see him perfectly, but I
Speaker 2: couldn't see his face. It was like his face was
Speaker 2: literally blurred out, and you know, they were asking. That
Speaker 2: guy was asking me various questions, and I was answering
Speaker 2: and looking at the wall seeing what was going on
Speaker 2: in the car. And then behind us and to the
Speaker 2: right there was sort of a ramp up to a doorway,
Speaker 2: and I just had the sense that we're going to
Speaker 2: go through that door that whenever we're done here with
Speaker 2: whatever this is, that's where we're going to go next.
Speaker 2: And and so several minutes probably went by, and I,
Speaker 2: you know, the questions he was asking had to do
Speaker 2: mostly with like family stuff. At some point he said, okay,
Speaker 2: you know, I think we're done. Are you ready to go?
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, where are we going to go?
Speaker 2: And he gestured towards that doorway, like, well we got
Speaker 2: we got to go this way. And it sort of
Speaker 2: hit me that, well, I'm watching this chaos and these
Speaker 2: people my family seemed super upset with what's going on
Speaker 2: in the car, and I said, well, I think I
Speaker 2: probably need to go back there. And he was like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, what do you have to go back there for?
Speaker 2: And my only answer was, well, my family. My family
Speaker 2: needs me. And he made this suggestion that well, the
Speaker 2: only way you can get back there is if you
Speaker 2: got to want it bad enough and you have to
Speaker 2: fight to get there. And I was like, well, what
Speaker 2: do you mean I have to fight to get there?
Speaker 2: And he told me the I'm the only one that
Speaker 2: can put me back there. If I want to go
Speaker 2: back there, I have to focus and concentrate and fight
Speaker 2: to get back there. Now, while he was telling me that,
Speaker 2: I could hear a siren through the wall or you know,
Speaker 2: looking at the TV. I call it a TV, the
Speaker 2: big screen of the wall of what was going on
Speaker 2: in the car. I could hear a siren and that
Speaker 2: didn't really make sense, but anyway, I closed my eyes
Speaker 2: and I started like concentrating really really hard of clenched
Speaker 2: my fists that I have to go back, I have
Speaker 2: to go back. And all of a sudden nick, the
Speaker 2: door of the car opened and there was an ambulance
Speaker 2: dude standing there, and my eyes open. I was back
Speaker 2: in the car and all I said was I'm fine.
Speaker 2: I'm good, and everybody in the car got quiet, and
Speaker 2: my wife looked at me and I was looking at her,
Speaker 2: and she goes, what do you mean. I go, no,
Speaker 2: I'm good. I go I had a problem, but everything's
Speaker 2: good now. I'm fine, and I felt one thousand percent fine.
Speaker 2: My eyes, my vision was fine. The ambulance guy, you know,
Speaker 2: ask me, all right, you know, sir, what's going on.
Speaker 2: What's your name? I go my name, my name's Lee.
Speaker 2: He goes, what have you been doing today? I go, well,
Speaker 2: we went to the you know, the restaurant, we had dinner.
Speaker 1: I ate this.
Speaker 2: It's friday. It's Friday afternoon. So I'm good. Everything's good,
Speaker 2: and so he's, well, we should really probably check you out,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's fine, Roger that let's do that.
Speaker 2: I go, and I go to climb out of the
Speaker 2: seat walk with him to the ambulance, and he's like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you stay hearing it to go get the gurney and
Speaker 2: we'll wheel you. And I go, no, no, no, I go,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do that. I go, let's just go.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I am fine. I'll walk with you
Speaker 2: if you want, you can hold on my arm or whatever.
Speaker 2: So we walked over to the ambulance and I got
Speaker 2: in the back of the ambulance and the guy in
Speaker 2: the back of the ambulance hooks me up to the EKG.
Speaker 2: I guess that's what it was. And he starts to
Speaker 2: ask me the same questions. You know, what's your name,
Speaker 2: what day of the week it is, what's going on today?
Speaker 2: Why are we out here? And so I'm telling him,
Speaker 2: you know, I the vision got blurry. It felt like
Speaker 2: I had acid stomach. And then I told him I
Speaker 2: must have just passed out or something. I did not
Speaker 2: tell them obviously what I believed really happened, but I
Speaker 2: did tell him this. I said, listen, I go, I
Speaker 2: wear a fitbit. My phone's in the car.
Speaker 1: I go.
Speaker 2: I know fitbit isn't necessarily science, but maybe if I downloaded,
Speaker 2: we'll see my heart rate or something, you know. And
Speaker 2: so they went and got my phone and we downloaded
Speaker 2: the fitbit, and you could see where my heart rate
Speaker 2: dropped to nothing and then it picked back up again.
Speaker 2: I know that the fitbit isn't science, but the fitbit
Speaker 2: definitely showed a change in my heart rate. And so
Speaker 2: then they took me to the hospital. They said, you know,
Speaker 2: if he had a heart attack, there's going to be
Speaker 2: enzymes that your blood will kick out, and we'll see that.
Speaker 2: They did. I think they did cat scan for my brain.
Speaker 2: All the tests came back. They had no idea what happened,
Speaker 2: and so I had to follow up with my doctor,
Speaker 2: and so I called my doctor and I actually got
Speaker 2: in that next day on Saturday. Went to my doctor
Speaker 2: in this doctor I've had for years. I had cancer
Speaker 2: several years prior to that, and this was like the
Speaker 2: doctor that helped me through that. So I've always been
Speaker 2: loyal to this guy. And so I went up talked
Speaker 2: to him and I told him, I said, hey, I
Speaker 2: go in addition to you know, all the all of
Speaker 2: these symptoms, I go, I kind of went somewhere and
Speaker 2: he's like, what do you mean you went somewhere? And
Speaker 2: I go, it got to a point where I thought
Speaker 2: maybe I was like actually having a heart attack, and
Speaker 2: I just showed up in this big white room and
Speaker 2: you know, it felt wonderful and it felt more real
Speaker 2: than real and blah blah blah. And he's like, all right,
Speaker 2: we're going to do a whole bunch more tests. It
Speaker 2: sounds alarming, you know. And I told him, I said, well,
Speaker 2: can we get all these tests done because in a
Speaker 2: week I'm supposed to go down and do the applation trail.
Speaker 2: And he's like, dude, you're not going to do the
Speaker 2: appellation trail. And I go, well, if we get all
Speaker 2: these tests done, I go, I'm going to go do it.
Speaker 2: And so we sort of argued back and forth a
Speaker 2: little bit. He got all the tests done except the
Speaker 2: stress tests, right, and we met like I think it
Speaker 2: was the next Thursday, and I said, well, I'm going
Speaker 2: for the appalation trail on Monday. So I go, I
Speaker 2: guess we can do the stress test when I get back.
Speaker 2: And he's like, listen, I'm telling you you can't go
Speaker 2: do this. And I said back, listen, I go. If
Speaker 2: I go out and they do this and I have
Speaker 2: a heart attack or a stroke and I die, take
Speaker 2: comfort knowing you were right.
Speaker 1: I go.
Speaker 2: But if I come back, you know you can do
Speaker 2: all the tests you want. And then I was right,
Speaker 2: how's that? And so he'd begrudgingly. He never did agree
Speaker 2: to it. But I went and we hiked Appalachian Trail,
Speaker 2: the Shenandoah section of the trail, and I did not die.
Speaker 2: I felt like I died numerous times on the trail,
Speaker 2: but you know I lived.
Speaker 3: Well, we know we're certainly glad you're much better and
Speaker 3: that you enjoyed your time hiking up on that trail.
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Speaker 3: You know we have had several nared experiences on this show. Lee,
Speaker 3: And one thing is for sure that during that period
Speaker 3: of time, we do seem to go somewhere. I mean,
Speaker 3: sure enough. You know, these accounts vary, can vary somewhat,
Speaker 3: and to be honest, I would kind of expect them to,
Speaker 3: but it does seem that people do go somewhere. This
Speaker 3: guy that was next to you, now you didn't see him.
Speaker 3: You were just mostly focused on how good you felt
Speaker 3: and what was happening with this screen. This guy next
Speaker 3: to you, What did he sound like? Did he have
Speaker 3: an accent? Is there anything you can tell us about him?
Speaker 2: You know, I look back on it in almost immediately afterwards,
Speaker 2: every thing was so vivid, right vivid in Like I
Speaker 2: told my wife, it seemed more real than me and
Speaker 2: you sitting here talking. I can't explain how real it seemed.
Speaker 2: Did not seem anything like the most vivid dream you
Speaker 2: ever had. It really seemed and felt like you are
Speaker 2: really somewhere else now this guy. The questions that I
Speaker 2: was being asked almost felt like self reflection type questions,
Speaker 2: Like I told you I had several ongoing PTSD things,
Speaker 2: and it almost seemed to me questions that would make
Speaker 2: me reflect on, not necessarily my behavior, at that time.
Speaker 2: But my outlook towards everything now I say I had PTSD,
Speaker 2: it was never like suicidal or anything at all like that.
Speaker 2: I felt like I'm the only one in my world
Speaker 2: that understands how the world really is, when in reality,
Speaker 2: everyone is in your world and everyone is living in
Speaker 2: the same world, right, And so I was throughout my
Speaker 2: career so much, always in control of everything that when
Speaker 2: my career ended, I just assumed that, you know, it
Speaker 2: just translates over and in reality, your family is a family.
Speaker 2: Your wife is there doing all the things that you
Speaker 2: should have been there doing during your career, but you
Speaker 2: weren't because your career was definitely a unique career. And
Speaker 2: so I would come home and I would see the
Speaker 2: kids and the wife arguing, and in my brain, I'm like,
Speaker 2: why are they arguing? Don't they know what really goes
Speaker 2: on out there in the world, you know? And so
Speaker 2: I think that the questions asked to me were maybe
Speaker 2: reminders or maybe not necessarily reminders, but little seeds to
Speaker 2: input in my brain that you know, the world is
Speaker 2: way bigger than my only outlook. Life is so much
Speaker 2: more precious than whatever my small little mind thinks it
Speaker 2: might be. At the moment, and so I think they
Speaker 2: were very profound suggestions from him. It did not end.
Speaker 2: Then weird things started happening after that. I would wake
Speaker 2: up every night at like two point fifty eight and
Speaker 2: be drawn to our back window for no reason at
Speaker 2: all other than something would wake me up, and something
Speaker 2: would tell me go look out the back window. And
Speaker 2: that sun's completely ridiculous. It's when you're living it, it
Speaker 2: feels stupid. It's like, why the f am I always
Speaker 2: waking up at two fifty eight somehow have to go
Speaker 2: look out this back window, right. Nothing, I never saw anything.
Speaker 2: I never noticed any lights or you know, anything strange.
Speaker 2: I would just sit there look out and think, you
Speaker 2: know about things, and then crawl back in bed and
Speaker 2: try to go back to sleep. Other things started happening
Speaker 2: that were weird. My whole life. I've been a hunter,
Speaker 2: right first, hunt people, second hunt deer, you know, hunt turkey, hunt,
Speaker 2: whatever the season may be, and no longer had a
Speaker 2: desire to really hunt or take game.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: I have a friend that we've been friends for a lifetime.
Speaker 2: Every year we do get together and go to deer camp.
Speaker 2: And I still do that, and I still do take
Speaker 2: one dear, but it's taken on a whole new meaning
Speaker 2: for me. Instead before trying to hunt and find the
Speaker 2: biggest buck and that whole trophy thing. Now it's more
Speaker 2: of a kinship of the animal, is providing food for us,
Speaker 2: for our family, you know. And I've never had that
Speaker 2: outlook before in my life until after this happened. John
Speaker 2: Alexander was a colonel in the Army Special Forces and
Speaker 2: he started the National Institute of Research of Near Death Experiences.
Speaker 2: It's like the go to institute for near death things.
Speaker 2: And after I had this, I really wanted to learn
Speaker 2: more about it because it was profound. I mean to me,
Speaker 2: it proved you go somewhere. Now, maybe I did not
Speaker 2: make it quite to the pearly gates. I didn't even
Speaker 2: make it out of what I call the waiting room,
Speaker 2: right I got back. But I became interested in people
Speaker 2: who had near death things. And there's a fireman who's
Speaker 2: a hot shot firefighter, one of those guys that get
Speaker 2: dropped into the forest fire. His name is Bill Letson,
Speaker 2: and he's been on several podcasts for his near death experience.
Speaker 2: And I reached out to Bill. I kind of wanted
Speaker 2: to find people in a similar lifestyle situation that I had.
Speaker 2: Instead of maybe, you know, the drowning victim or somebody
Speaker 2: who had a heart attack and died and came back,
Speaker 2: I wanted to find somebody that just sort of spontaneously
Speaker 2: happened and talked to them in any way. I talked
Speaker 2: to Bill several times through email, and he provided me
Speaker 2: contact information to the National Institute of Research at Near Death,
Speaker 2: and I reached out to them, and John Alexander back
Speaker 2: to me, and you know, then I'm thinking, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I should even talk to anybody
Speaker 2: about this. This is all kind of dumb, and this
Speaker 2: isn't really who I am, and I just had doubts
Speaker 2: about it. And then I was listening to Chris Bloodsoe
Speaker 2: on a podcast one day and he started mentioning the
Speaker 2: one of the very first government people that reached out
Speaker 2: to him about his UFO experiences was John Alexander. And
Speaker 2: I thought, wait, what name did you just say? And
Speaker 2: I rewound and I listened and John Alexander, and I
Speaker 2: thought that sounds like the same guy that reached out
Speaker 2: to me. I wonder, Nah, there's no way that could be.
Speaker 2: And so I went back through the emails and I
Speaker 2: found the email and then I, did you know, ten
Speaker 2: minutes worth of Google research and I got it was
Speaker 2: the same guy. And so then I sort of went
Speaker 2: down to John Alexander rabbit Hole and wanted to hear
Speaker 2: what his thoughts and beliefs and stuff were. And in
Speaker 2: terms of near death stuff, he's a very thorough researcher
Speaker 2: on it. And so I reached out to him, apologized
Speaker 2: that I didn't write back to him as quickly as
Speaker 2: I probably should have. In any way, long story short,
Speaker 2: we got contact with each other and had several long conversations,
Speaker 2: and he helped me become aware of things like, listen, people,
Speaker 2: strange things happen after you have the near death thing.
Speaker 2: The two point fifty eight in the morning thing is
Speaker 2: perfectly normal. A lot of people have this. A lot
Speaker 2: of people wake up expecting to see something or downloads.
Speaker 2: They get downloads and I'm like, well, what are downloads?
Speaker 2: And he started describing what downloads were, and I get
Speaker 2: those often. When it came to writing the book Orbit
Speaker 2: if I got to a spot where I was stuck
Speaker 2: and I couldn't you know, I was like writer's block.
Speaker 2: Every night, I have the same routine. I'm a Christian,
Speaker 2: so I say prayers every night, and then after I'm
Speaker 2: done saying prayers, I would reflect on why where I'm
Speaker 2: blocked at in the book, and I just focus on
Speaker 2: that blockage point. And I'm telling you every day, the
Speaker 2: next day I'd wake up and instantly have four or
Speaker 2: five options of where to go with the book. And
Speaker 2: so these downloads are things that I believe are true.
Speaker 2: You know, I think other people have them. Does that
Speaker 2: any of that make sense to you? Does it sound ridiculous?
Speaker 3: It certainly doesn't sound ridiculous on this show. When these
Speaker 3: things happen to us, you know, where we get very
Speaker 3: close in your case, very very close. She did cross
Speaker 3: over it. And then when people come back, they do
Speaker 3: seem to have this reflection on life. You know, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, people which have generally career based where
Speaker 3: they have been more focused on their career, and when
Speaker 3: they come back there's a lot of self reflection to
Speaker 3: do with families and life, you know, life, you know
Speaker 3: you mentioned in wildlife and nature and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Things seem to change, there's something which happens, and then
Speaker 3: when it comes to strange occurrences that happen after it'slight.
Speaker 3: You've opened something that made a connection gone somewhere and
Speaker 3: it's possibly still linked, you know, maybe opened it up.
Speaker 3: And I do think we all have this, but in
Speaker 3: certain situations that gap gets bridged.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for certain, right.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I mentioned to you that I'm a Christian, and I've
Speaker 2: been a Christian my entire life. I liked a man
Speaker 2: team Jesus hope for the others out there, it's not
Speaker 2: offensive to them, but you know, I've put my hopes
Speaker 2: and dreams and that. After this happened, I went and
Speaker 2: my preacher is literally a neighbor and he's a really
Speaker 2: great guy. I went and talked to him and I said, listen,
Speaker 2: I go, I got to talk to you about something.
Speaker 2: I don't want you to think I'm crazy, but this happened,
Speaker 2: you know. And I told him, I'm I'm not the
Speaker 2: guy that is going to bring people into your church.
Speaker 2: You don't want me going out there and recruiting people
Speaker 2: because I'll probably scare him away. But I feel like
Speaker 2: it's something that's so profound that I need to share it.
Speaker 2: And he goes, you know, I agree, And so I
Speaker 2: did write kind of a short story about the whole
Speaker 2: thing and published it here locally and I got, you know,
Speaker 2: a tremendous response on it, and it was mostly a
Speaker 2: message to just let people know that, man, there's something
Speaker 2: out there when we're done here. Not entirely explainable, but
Speaker 2: for me, it's absolute hope that the lights just don't
Speaker 2: go out.
Speaker 3: You know, this does happen two people in all different cultures,
Speaker 3: in different religions, regardless of what people see, you know,
Speaker 3: during their time when they do crossover, whether religion has
Speaker 3: anything to do with how that relates, we do seem
Speaker 3: to go somewhere. So not only it's nice to know
Speaker 3: that this life isn't the end, you know, there is something,
Speaker 3: there is something more, but also we we should certainly
Speaker 3: sit back sometimes and reflect on our own lives and
Speaker 3: the people around us and how actions affect people. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I really do enjoy hearing these accounts of near death experiences.
Speaker 3: It is fascinating, absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as someone that went through it, I mean, you
Speaker 2: can't begin to explain how profound it is. The minutes
Speaker 2: and the hours after it happens. It's so profound to
Speaker 2: you that you feel like you want to share it
Speaker 2: with everyone, but you also understand that I don't want
Speaker 2: people to think I'm crazy, right, but you really do
Speaker 2: wait up and go somewhere. For me, it somehow it
Speaker 2: involved technology because a lot of people that have had
Speaker 2: the near death thing say they've raised out of their
Speaker 2: body and they look down and they can see, you know,
Speaker 2: the doctors working on them, blah blah blah. Well, for me,
Speaker 2: it was like the wall seem the only way I
Speaker 2: could describe it as like a big screen TV, only
Speaker 2: it took up the wall and I could see exactly
Speaker 2: everything that was going on in the car. So for me,
Speaker 2: it's somehow associated strangely with technology. And one of the
Speaker 2: things that John Alexander mentioned, And John, a lot of
Speaker 2: people have opinions of John, and I understand a lot
Speaker 2: of those different opinions of him. But for me personally,
Speaker 2: he was almost a godsend in that he was someone
Speaker 2: I could relate to because of his background in my background.
Speaker 2: He was someone that certainly was not judging me in
Speaker 2: any way, shape or form. He just was listening and
Speaker 2: then was recanting other people's experiences that may or may
Speaker 2: not have been similar to mine. And you know, we
Speaker 2: got into the UFO topic during one of our conversations
Speaker 2: because of Chris Bledsoe. I'm like, hey, I know you've
Speaker 2: met Chris. What do you think? What can you say?
Speaker 2: And he was like, Hey, all that stuff that Chris
Speaker 2: is going through is one hundred percent real. You know,
Speaker 2: this is what he's going through. And I said, you know,
Speaker 2: with regards to this like near death thing. And there's
Speaker 2: been a darker tone recently of possibilities of these UFOs
Speaker 2: in terms of could they be here to figure out
Speaker 2: how to snatch our souls? And these conversations have popped up.
Speaker 2: I sort of halfway jokingly said something like that to
Speaker 2: John and he goes, well, he goes, if you think
Speaker 2: about yours, you were just in a card going down
Speaker 2: a road, and suddenly you were in a room that
Speaker 2: you described as sort of technology. He goes, you know,
Speaker 2: who's to say, maybe that wasn't UFO related. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I hope not, but I have a small percentage in
Speaker 2: my head that could be open to something like that.
Speaker 3: Also, so much we just don't know. I mean, it
Speaker 3: brings new question about is our reality a simulation and
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 7: So very peculiar, absolutely, but we will all will probably.
Speaker 2: Find out, you know, in the end, right, I completely believe.
Speaker 2: So you think about it, write down Bill Letson's name
Speaker 2: and do a little search on him and listen to
Speaker 2: his experience. It's just it's crazy. I mean, not only
Speaker 2: did he make it through the waiting room, like I
Speaker 2: joked that I was, I didn't get past the waiting room, right,
Speaker 2: He met several individuals or people or things, and his
Speaker 2: is quite shocking. Looking back on the whole thing, I
Speaker 2: can't help but think that somehow it's all connected. That
Speaker 2: guy that stopped my wife was somebody that none of
Speaker 2: us knew, none of us recognize, And the conversation he
Speaker 2: had with her was just so absolutely pointed and fixated
Speaker 2: on me understanding things of life right, And the conversation
Speaker 2: wasn't even with me, it was with my wife. And
Speaker 2: then you know, that happened, and then the fallout of that,
Speaker 2: in terms of waking up searching for things in the night,
Speaker 2: downloads these orbs that seemed to appear quite often. I
Speaker 2: make jokes with my family about I still run and
Speaker 2: hike quite often, and where we live there's several forest
Speaker 2: preserves that you know, you could go and run five
Speaker 2: ten miles if you needed to. And all these places
Speaker 2: are loaded full of deer, and I'll get pictures of
Speaker 2: me literally like two foot away from some of these deer.
Speaker 2: And you know, people joke, well, that's forest preserved deer.
Speaker 2: They're tame. You know. Well, we have a BlackBerry patch
Speaker 2: in our backyard that is very, very large, probably seventy
Speaker 2: foot by fifteen foot wide. And me and wife were
Speaker 2: back there just this spring, cleaning things up, and there
Speaker 2: was a robin up on the vines of the blackberries,
Speaker 2: and I was pretty close to the robin, and something
Speaker 2: told me, just, you know, slowly, go over to the
Speaker 2: robin and hold my hand out, and so I did,
Speaker 2: and the damn thing jumped up on my hand and
Speaker 2: I held it up and I yelled for my wife,
Speaker 2: and she turned around and looked and saw the rabbit.
Speaker 1: She just sort of rolled her eyes and said, all right,
Speaker 1: stop it.
Speaker 2: I believe you.
Speaker 3: You know, you find this great for these long walks
Speaker 3: countryside and on these trails, and it recharges your battery,
Speaker 3: doesn't it.
Speaker 2: It fills you with energy, Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I go out for these long walks and I'm into
Speaker 2: like all year long, different mushrooms, pop up, and so
Speaker 2: I'm always like, you know, and look out for those
Speaker 2: and I'll post pictures on Facebook of you know, different
Speaker 2: weird things I might see out in the woods and stuff.
Speaker 2: So I'm happy with life and I'm tuned into life.
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people take it for granted.
Speaker 3: Your generation, my generation, you know, we we weren't around technology.
Speaker 3: You know, we spent time outside, go off for hours
Speaker 3: and hours on the trails and into the woods, go
Speaker 3: off and the adventures. But now we're surrounded by all
Speaker 3: this technology, all this information has been pumped into us.
Speaker 3: It is super important for people. And I know they'd
Speaker 3: be listeners now that would be you know, out in
Speaker 3: the trails. They'd be dog walking and they're going for runs.
Speaker 3: It is super important to get out, get away from
Speaker 3: this stuff sometimes, you know, get away from the computers
Speaker 3: and the phones and get out there and get your information,
Speaker 3: get your energy from nature.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's My wife loves going to the mountains, so
Speaker 2: we go to the mountains as much as we can.
Speaker 2: And you know, you can get lost out there. It's
Speaker 2: good to get lost sometimes, you know. We did one
Speaker 2: hike out near Teeton. I believe it was nearly twenty
Speaker 2: miles in one direction and you get the point where
Speaker 2: you really don't see anyone else and then just listen
Speaker 2: to the sound of quietness. Take it all in because
Speaker 2: sitting in your apartment or you're flat or in your house,
Speaker 2: staring at a screen just doesn't recharge the battery.
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more great stuff, Lee, fascinate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate you reaching out to me and lining
Speaker 2: this up. This was great, Lee.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate you coming on sharing that for our listeners.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and thanks Nick for having me. It was great
Speaker 2: to meet you and all your followers. Hopefully they listen
Speaker 2: all the way to the end here. I appreciate them
Speaker 2: tuning in.
Speaker 3: Thanks Nick, was our pleasure.
Speaker 1: Lee.
Speaker 3: It was wonderful to meet you. Okay, please keep in
Speaker 3: contact and we will speak soon, sir.
Speaker 2: All right, take care and Nick okay, take care.
Speaker 3: By finale.
Speaker 5: That is all for this week.
Speaker 3: Keep updated and connected with a show on x, Facebook
Speaker 3: and Instagram, and if you have an encounter that you'd
Speaker 3: like to share on the podcast, you can email me
Speaker 3: at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com, or you can
Speaker 3: reach out to me via the contact page on my website,
Speaker 3: UFO Chronicles podcast dot com. A big thank you to
Speaker 3: Lee for sharing tonight, and thank you all for listening.
Speaker 3: I will be back next week. Till then, stay safe
Speaker 3: and keep watching the skies. Goodbye,