Speaker 1: What's going down? Everybody, your good friend Ryan, Uncle Brando
Speaker 1: here dropping in quick before the show with a little
Speaker 1: bit of news. We had a local member of our
Speaker 1: community the other day pass away. Ryan Christie was his name.
Speaker 1: Hell of a magic player, and we wanted to take
Speaker 1: a minute to dedicate the show to him today.
Speaker 2: He's a good dude.
Speaker 3: He was a Ryan said, pillar of the Regina Magic community,
Speaker 3: a good friend to our good friend Keel. We got
Speaker 3: to meet him, break bread with him, drink beer with him,
Speaker 3: and our hearts and thoughts go out to his family
Speaker 3: and friends and this time. It's always terrible when you
Speaker 3: lose somebody that's close to especially when they're so young,
Speaker 3: So we want to dedicate it today's show to him
Speaker 3: and his loved ones.
Speaker 2: He was the commarical podcast episode for already one. I'm
Speaker 2: brand O him. Here's Brian. Everyone talk about the band.
Speaker 4: Listen now our things.
Speaker 2: Hey Ryan, We're back for yes another Whirlwind adventure. How
Speaker 2: you doing good? What is going down?
Speaker 3: Whole bunch is going down. We're gonna talk about the
Speaker 3: ban list and whether we think that those cards should
Speaker 3: remain out of the game forever or become part of
Speaker 3: the game Changer list. We got some stories to tell,
Speaker 3: some people to thank. Before we get to any of that,
Speaker 3: we have to thank for official business Dad is Fusion
Speaker 3: Gaming Online dot Com at your source for all your
Speaker 3: gaming needs, where you gonna use special promo code CCO
Speaker 3: Holidays say five percent off all of your band cards,
Speaker 3: one of which I bought because I didn't.
Speaker 2: Realize it was on the list. We'll talk about that
Speaker 2: when we get to it.
Speaker 1: I love what that kind of stuff happened, especially to you.
Speaker 3: And any other card that we talk about here today.
Speaker 3: We also want to thank Pile the Bones Brewing Co.
Speaker 3: They're the second coolest thing to come out of Regina,
Speaker 3: as well as being the official beer sponsor for c CEO.
Speaker 3: Sidewalk Slam Season three just premiered right here on YouTube.
Speaker 1: All baby, look at it's on the back TV. You'd
Speaker 1: see that if you're watching on YouTube, which should be
Speaker 1: and you should watch Sidewalk Slam on YouTube as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very much, so big thanks to producer Gary who is
Speaker 1: working the production behind the scenes today. We appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and of course the whole dufferin Avenue Media Network Network,
Speaker 1: Studio Network Network, yep.
Speaker 2: And I would not be here without the Network, Yes.
Speaker 1: Very much so. And the Business Daddies. I just got
Speaker 1: a a shipment from the Business Daddies. Ordered it used
Speaker 1: CEO holiday promo code. Showed up in three days at
Speaker 1: a discount. Playing Magic the Gathering cards with those cards
Speaker 1: now nicely done? Yeah, very much so, Yellow Basic Lands,
Speaker 1: How did you get two two to one? I don't
Speaker 1: run very many basics in a four color deck? Uncle Brando,
Speaker 1: who get with the program?
Speaker 2: Blood Moon? Blood Moon? Not a game?
Speaker 1: Can no, no, so okay. Over the last last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, we've been talking about the new bracket matchmaking
Speaker 1: system to I guess mixed opinions. Are things going to change?
Speaker 1: Should we do anything different? If you want to know
Speaker 1: our opinions, and like, I think at this point in time,
Speaker 1: pretty comprehensive breakdown of our thoughts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've been talking about it for two weeks, two weeks.
Speaker 2: It has to be comprehensive.
Speaker 1: Plus on the pre show as well for two weeks.
Speaker 1: So we've got several hours worth of stuff. If you
Speaker 1: haven't watched it yet, go check it out. I think
Speaker 1: we did a pretty good job. We got some compliments,
Speaker 1: we got a lot of like intel and extras. Thoughts
Speaker 1: provided to us in our discord, which is a wonderful
Speaker 1: benefit to becoming a Patreon supporter.
Speaker 3: Lots of people said that, wait, wait, hang on, hang on,
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Patreon dot com, slas Cco podcast, if you
Speaker 3: would like to become a Patreon every little bit helps
Speaker 3: you wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Be here without them very much. So okay, so I noticed, sorry,
Speaker 2: And then back to what I'm saying now.
Speaker 3: From stretching here, I noticed on from what I saw
Speaker 3: on the discord, I couldn't get through all of it
Speaker 3: because I'm bad at discord. And it's because he's one hundred,
Speaker 3: because I'm a thousand years old.
Speaker 2: A lot of this I saw sound that.
Speaker 3: Is like, yeah, it works fine, but it's basically just
Speaker 3: the same as the ten system.
Speaker 2: Yes, so.
Speaker 3: Every every much ado about nothing maybe well a little bit,
Speaker 3: a little bit it is.
Speaker 1: But and this is the final thing I'll say on it.
Speaker 1: No what I say, two things, two things I always say, right, okay,
Speaker 1: So every one bracket counts as two. Now, A one
Speaker 1: is a one or two, A two is a three
Speaker 1: or a four. A three it's five or six, A
Speaker 1: four is a seven or an eight.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: There it is and then a five is a nine
Speaker 1: or ten excellent. That's the first thing. The second thing is,
Speaker 1: and this is the final thing is it's it gives
Speaker 1: us actual tools, gives us the language, It gives us
Speaker 1: something official, something more concrete than what the commands on
Speaker 1: said like five years ago. Yes, it's like a seven,
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever.
Speaker 2: Every dex of seven now, every dex to three.
Speaker 1: Now if we if we wanted to maybe make our
Speaker 1: decks into fours or fives or sixes or sevens, we
Speaker 1: could play some band cards, but we wouldn't be allowed to.
Speaker 2: Yes, we would be then cheating.
Speaker 3: So what we have to do is change the rules
Speaker 3: so that we can play banded cards.
Speaker 1: Or wait until when is it April? When the next
Speaker 1: like the game Changer and band list updates are going
Speaker 1: to come out, And I think we're gonna see some changes.
Speaker 1: I would be surprised if we didn't see changes.
Speaker 2: I would be shocked and in.
Speaker 1: The way of or this is how I think changes
Speaker 1: are going to happen. Is card on band list gets
Speaker 1: put onto game changer list.
Speaker 2: Do you think there's gonna be a tiered game Changer list?
Speaker 2: I don't want there to be, no, But do you
Speaker 2: think there will no because then that's another list exactly.
Speaker 1: That's why don't want people are already One of the
Speaker 1: criticisms is people are already saying, oh, well, why do
Speaker 1: we need a game changer's list that's like a point
Speaker 1: system like Canadian Highlander has, or it's a secondary list
Speaker 1: when there's already a banded list. Blah blah blah. We
Speaker 1: don't need to make it any more complicated. We don't
Speaker 1: need the barrier to entry to be any higher for
Speaker 1: new players, right, But when you take a card off
Speaker 1: the band list, that does make it available for play
Speaker 1: at a certain kind of expected power level of deck three,
Speaker 1: Tier three, bracket three, four or five. So when you
Speaker 1: do that, what you're doing is functionally eliminating it out
Speaker 1: of pre conplay or lower powered play. And I think
Speaker 1: that that's great because these cards are on the band
Speaker 1: list because obviously they're very powerful. Obviously they're going to
Speaker 1: change games that they're in.
Speaker 2: What list are we looking at?
Speaker 3: Here we on the screen because this is not the oh,
Speaker 3: this is the legacy bands.
Speaker 2: These cards are not banned on Commander, my guy, Commander bandless.
Speaker 2: Here we go.
Speaker 1: So we have got and I don't even know how
Speaker 1: many cards are on the Commander band list. Let's say
Speaker 1: that there's like forty.
Speaker 2: We're going to go through the ones that are worth
Speaker 2: talking about. Yep.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna skip the Power nine, We're gonna skip
Speaker 3: the Dexterity cards.
Speaker 2: We're gonna like flip it up in the fucking sky
Speaker 2: and blow on it.
Speaker 3: And if it stays in the air for ten minutes,
Speaker 3: if it touches a card to blow the card up,
Speaker 3: you're gonna skip that kind of shit.
Speaker 1: Though I wish that that one was nat I wish
Speaker 1: Chaos Orb was unbanned.
Speaker 2: So bad it costs so many dollars.
Speaker 3: I feel like it wouldn't really matter if it came
Speaker 3: off the band list, but I understand why it's on
Speaker 3: the right.
Speaker 2: Yes, you gotta leave it.
Speaker 1: It's an it's an eight or nine hundred dollars magic card.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if it came off the band list
Speaker 1: what that price would dude go to? Like ten grand?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah?
Speaker 3: And then and it's a you physically have to throw
Speaker 3: it around to play it.
Speaker 1: The best part, that's the best part. Oh man, do
Speaker 1: you remember, oh man, do you remember when Rick whoever
Speaker 1: it was, David David Manning it was. It was somebody
Speaker 1: in our local community. It's like doing his fucking warm
Speaker 1: ups and ship stretches to throw his chaos orb throws
Speaker 1: it and he goes right onto his board, blows up
Speaker 1: like six of his land oh his own ship.
Speaker 2: Oh man, that was very funny.
Speaker 1: It's such a ridiculous card. That's why I want it
Speaker 1: to be unbanned.
Speaker 2: Agreed. Anyways, I would certainly play it if I could. Now.
Speaker 1: You went to DH Night Magic EDH and M the
Speaker 1: other day yesterday and talked with a bunch of CCIO
Speaker 1: dude bros. Took it to the boys on Beer with
Speaker 1: the Boys band list.
Speaker 2: Beer with the Boys, Yes, b B b oh with
Speaker 2: Uncle Brando Yes yeah okay, and.
Speaker 1: You talked about which cards should very definitely be banned forever,
Speaker 1: like life in prison, no chance of role. And you
Speaker 1: talked about what could potentially come off and.
Speaker 2: Come game changers and thereby b cards that are okay.
Speaker 1: And I love to play the game where we pit
Speaker 1: two cards against each other and see which one, if
Speaker 1: we had to gun to our head unbanned one, keep
Speaker 1: the other band And I want to kind of just
Speaker 1: go through the list in this way, like like my
Speaker 1: way and the way that you did yesterday to kind
Speaker 1: of pick and put our opinions out there. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: where do you want to start, Like just at the top.
Speaker 2: Let's start at the top with balance.
Speaker 1: Balance. Okay, this is a two manna, this is white
Speaker 1: one sorcery, and everybody sacks down to the least number of.
Speaker 3: Everything essentially everything lands creatures cards in hand. You see
Speaker 3: who has the least, then everybody has that many, thus
Speaker 3: bringing the game into balance.
Speaker 1: Yes, and Balance was a card that they also reprinted
Speaker 1: with uh suspend called restore Balance. So this is an
Speaker 1: effect that we can already play, right, Yes, so I
Speaker 1: guess with restore Balance it is telegraphed.
Speaker 2: You see it comming from I think three three turns.
Speaker 1: Though you can with the timey wymy pre con if
Speaker 1: you want to take some of those cards, you can
Speaker 1: speed run your time counters with the same turn. But
Speaker 1: that's not that good because it's still telegraphed and people
Speaker 1: still know that this is the kind of shit you're doing. Right,
Speaker 1: So should Balance be banned or unbanned?
Speaker 3: I'm fine with it being banned. Not because we learned,
Speaker 3: we learned a new term.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we learned a new term.
Speaker 3: But one of the things that a couple of the
Speaker 3: guys like to talk about last night was the term
Speaker 3: chaos gremlin.
Speaker 2: Okay, and I feel that's where.
Speaker 3: A lot of at least in our group's consensus, people
Speaker 3: were thinking that their regards that were on this list
Speaker 3: because of the chaos gremlin. The guy that just the
Speaker 3: guy that just randomly plays armagedinon like just because it's funny.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I call it.
Speaker 3: They do it to make the griefers is what I
Speaker 3: call that. Yes, yes, play it to make you mad.
Speaker 1: The griefer is is an I think a more universal term.
Speaker 1: The term that I use a lot of the times
Speaker 1: is like social immaturity. They don't know that this isn't
Speaker 1: an appropriate way to play the game.
Speaker 2: To most people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and balance would be the kind of thing that
Speaker 1: if it becomes unbanned, you go to a big magic
Speaker 1: Facebook group with one hundred thousand people in it, and
Speaker 1: somebody types in, oh, what's the best way to break balance?
Speaker 2: I want to piss my friends off exactly.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the guy.
Speaker 2: Yes, those are the guys that you're you're looking out for.
Speaker 3: Can you play a balance? I'm gonna use the words
Speaker 3: responsibly and use it to win games. Absolutely you can.
Speaker 3: I could absolutely do it.
Speaker 1: I would put it in stacks decks or in planes
Speaker 1: Walker decks like people put Armageddon in where you don't
Speaker 1: actually care if you eliminate all of your own version
Speaker 1: of this resource, because you still have like planes Walkers.
Speaker 2: You still have value and over yeah.
Speaker 1: Turnover turn to get your advantage back. Man, a card
Speaker 1: advantage tokens whatever.
Speaker 3: Right, And I think just because like at the low end,
Speaker 3: Balance is going to be a card that somebody's just
Speaker 3: gonna play because they're behind, and now everybody's behind, and
Speaker 3: it kind of just, let's just say, ways, it fucks
Speaker 3: the game up. Yeah, And so I feel like that's
Speaker 3: probably why it for me, that's.
Speaker 2: Why it could stay on the band list.
Speaker 3: I don't want somebody to just I've been random Armageddon
Speaker 3: before and it sucks. And I feel like random Balance
Speaker 3: is even a little bit worse because it makes it
Speaker 3: difficult to.
Speaker 1: To It's more than it's more than one thing, right,
Speaker 1: It's not just your lands like Armageddon. It's your lands
Speaker 1: and your cards in hand and your creatures and your
Speaker 1: artifacts like it's everything, right, Okay, So I want to
Speaker 1: do a thing here. Okay, we talked about balance. What
Speaker 1: about Worldfire. Now Worldfire costs like eight, but it does
Speaker 1: kind of the same thing. Yeah, now also costing eight,
Speaker 1: also doing kind of the same thing when you build
Speaker 1: around it and do the responsible thing. Next card, bio Rhythm.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now all of these cards, Balance, bio Rhythm, World Fire,
Speaker 1: I would consider them the same type of card when
Speaker 1: used to win the game. Yes, I have one damage
Speaker 1: on the stack and I Worldfire. Everybody's life becomes one
Speaker 1: and everybody's permanence go bye bye. Then I win. Or
Speaker 1: planes walkers with Balance or bio Rhythm, is life totals
Speaker 1: become equal to creatures?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: If I cast Wrath of God, play a one drop,
Speaker 1: and then play a bio Rhythm, my life goes to one.
Speaker 1: Your life goes to zero.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Or a player three Wrath of God and kills all
Speaker 3: the dudes and then passes to you, and then you
Speaker 3: play Biogorrhythm and everybody else dies except.
Speaker 1: For them, all the old offensive, defensive Biogrhythm.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, so Balance was our first card. We're unbanning it,
Speaker 1: are we we are? Okay, but but hear me out. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're pitting it against bioorhythm. One of them has to
Speaker 1: be banned, one of them is gonna be unbanned.
Speaker 3: Why dounbanned bio Rhythm and Heartbeat Heartbeat bi rhythm on
Speaker 3: absolutely Why because it does the same thing to a
Speaker 3: game as a card like Torment of Hillfire, a really
Speaker 3: big Comet, Storm, Cyclonic Rift, all those cards of the.
Speaker 1: Same creator hoof Behemoth, you world Fire.
Speaker 3: You invest a large amount of manna and it probably
Speaker 3: results in you winning the game. This one just actually
Speaker 3: says you win the game on it. Yeah, it requires
Speaker 3: lots of work on your behalf. It requires a board
Speaker 3: state that has to be carefully sculpted. You could certainly
Speaker 3: eat shit off of it as well if somebody paths
Speaker 3: the creature that you play to make you survive.
Speaker 2: Your own bi rhythm or die to your own virhythm. Yes, so,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think that this is a perfectly fine card to
Speaker 3: come off the band last.
Speaker 1: Oh no, you know what I like. I like path
Speaker 1: your guy, you're going to die to your own bi rhythm.
Speaker 1: But also on the stack, I'm going to generous gift
Speaker 1: my own thing to give myself an elephant and then
Speaker 1: my life total goes to one.
Speaker 2: You die.
Speaker 1: There's the defense of Bioghithm and yeah, it's it's eight
Speaker 1: or nine man or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's eight.
Speaker 3: This is fine, and it's printed on a creature right now.
Speaker 3: You can play bio Rhythm in command Wow, right.
Speaker 1: Now for more manna and you have to have eight
Speaker 1: total power or more. Yeah, and it's sen that's sorcery
Speaker 1: speed or like at summoning sickness speed. Yes, so bio
Speaker 1: Rhythm unbanned.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Okay, are we talking about Braid's Cabal Minion.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, you don't know she's banned because you
Speaker 3: don't want to see her in the command zone.
Speaker 2: That's why that card is banned.
Speaker 1: And we are already have Turgrid in that same spot
Speaker 1: on the Black Game Changers List. Leave Leave Raids Band.
Speaker 3: We can just leave her out of there, nobody. I
Speaker 3: don't think anybody really wants to play against that deck.
Speaker 3: I have in the past before she's banned, it was
Speaker 3: a nightmare.
Speaker 1: And and now you could play against Turgert or Talks
Speaker 1: Real and sort of have the same experience. And Turgert's
Speaker 1: already on the Game Changers list, so you're not gonna
Speaker 1: see that unless you're playing higher powered games exactly.
Speaker 2: Okay, so already things that just do it better. So
Speaker 2: she can just stake.
Speaker 1: Up Graids see Turgrid, take some fucking notes, okay, chaos
Speaker 1: or we talked about what I wanted on banned so bad,
Speaker 1: but I know that it won't be the next one, okay,
Speaker 1: Coalition Victory. I want this fricking card on banned so bad.
Speaker 2: I'm fine with it being under. A couple of the
Speaker 2: people were like, yeah, but like my five colored deck
Speaker 2: and said.
Speaker 3: Oh, shut up with your five color deck, Like yeah,
Speaker 3: you're gonna win a game with it, like once, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But don't people want it their five colored deck?
Speaker 2: Way they do, but like, oh, it's gonna make my
Speaker 2: deck so good. No it's not. Isn't it cost eight?
Speaker 2: It costs eight because whooberg and fucking three, Like it's
Speaker 2: not good? Gods eight.
Speaker 1: We just talked about Buyer Rhythm and Worldfire and Creator
Speaker 1: Hoof and Cyclonic Rift. I know that that's seven, but
Speaker 1: those all cost eight and those are fine, Yeah, I probably.
Speaker 2: And this one is the most fragile of the lot,
Speaker 2: like any removal spell will stop this.
Speaker 1: Dude, Oh my god. Okay, I can't win the game
Speaker 1: with cards like Torment of Hailfire or or Exanguinate or
Speaker 1: debt to the death list unless I put more than
Speaker 1: eight man into it. And people are like, those cards
Speaker 1: need to be on the Game Changers, but you want
Speaker 1: Coalition victory fucking off the Game Changers list, Like what yeh?
Speaker 1: Coalition Victory. I think, And here's my first actual prediction.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be one of the ones that's
Speaker 1: downgraded from band and put onto Game Changers. I think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be one of the ones.
Speaker 2: You know what, I would hot take.
Speaker 3: I would just take it off of both lists and
Speaker 3: put it into the fucking game.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good take. That's a good take. And
Speaker 2: then there's somebody out there.
Speaker 3: Just like kind of whacking it while they're thinking about it,
Speaker 3: and they're like, oh god, I just did. But what
Speaker 3: if you go land prismatic omen because then your lands
Speaker 3: are all basic land types and then you play Transkilled
Speaker 3: Courier and then you wait five turns and your Vanilla
Speaker 3: two tuesdays alive and you play that's.
Speaker 2: True, you got me. The card's broken, Like.
Speaker 1: The card's broken, dude, but you you needed like five
Speaker 1: other cards to combo with it, and it can't be
Speaker 1: in your command zone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and all of those cards are shitty, Like.
Speaker 1: This is this whole this whole episode is gonna be
Speaker 1: that us. We're the cartoon dogs sitting in the house
Speaker 1: on fire.
Speaker 2: This is fine, This is fine.
Speaker 1: Colition victory is fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is fine.
Speaker 3: I don't see I honestly don't even know why it
Speaker 3: was bad in the first place. I really don't, given
Speaker 3: that there are so many other cards that do the
Speaker 3: same thing with less hoops to jump through, like the.
Speaker 1: Same thing meaning end the game. Yeah, the game is
Speaker 1: just over now, Yes, because this one says that you win.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is no functional difference between Torment of Hillfire
Speaker 3: for sixty and this and Torment of Hill Fire for
Speaker 3: sixty is as.
Speaker 2: Egregious as you think it is. I do it all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 1: I've seen it. I want to put that if this
Speaker 1: gets un banned straight into my five color deck, it's
Speaker 1: an eight drop and I play ad nauseum. I'll just
Speaker 1: freaking cut something. I'll just just get all my duels
Speaker 1: and shocks and my try lands, and I'm be the
Speaker 1: guy that has like the freaking ten thousand dollars manna
Speaker 1: base and I'm gonna cast my freaking five color naked
Speaker 1: baby weird thing commander child of Lara, and then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna cast Coalition victory. And if they blow up my
Speaker 1: child of a Lara in.
Speaker 2: Response, they're gonna lose all their permanence. Anyway, what if
Speaker 2: they waste land one of your lands?
Speaker 1: Don't care play from a gravy. I'll waste land one
Speaker 1: of my own fucking land.
Speaker 2: Over that's the thing. Then you won't win, It's perfect.
Speaker 2: I'll just play from my grave are easily. Then you
Speaker 2: won't have Coalition victory anymore. I play yagwats will in
Speaker 2: that deck.
Speaker 1: I'm bad at this game. If I'm gonna build a
Speaker 1: degenerate deck, I'm gonna go all the way piece of crap.
Speaker 2: All right, I am that guy. You heard it here? First, okay,
Speaker 2: Coalition victory unbanned, non banned that one, okay.
Speaker 1: Next one.
Speaker 2: Channel that's that's that has to stay on. Oh fuck, that's.
Speaker 1: Stand banned one hundred days out of one hundred.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, not the universal approval, because there was a
Speaker 3: couple of guys at the table that didn't know what
Speaker 3: Channel does. If you don't know what channel does part
Speaker 3: of the original magic the gathering combo, tell them green
Speaker 3: green until end of turn. You may pay Life to
Speaker 3: add colorless manna to your manipool.
Speaker 1: So what you do is start the game with like
Speaker 1: a rich like a dark ritual or whatever. No, dark
Speaker 1: ritual is perfect because we're talking about torment to hailfire
Speaker 1: and exanguinate. Yeah, you go swamp. Dark ritual gives you
Speaker 1: three Oh no, how do we make green fuck?
Speaker 3: Originally I believe what was it, black Lotus Blackladus channel
Speaker 3: for yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, back when, like in nineteen ninety three, it was
Speaker 1: your sixty card deck had twenty channels, twenty Black Lotus
Speaker 1: and twenty Fireballs Channel Fireball. That's where the name comes from. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you just dark Ritual can channel. You paid
Speaker 1: thirty nine Life. You've got black black black from your
Speaker 1: Dark Ritual. You've got a forty point xanguin eight on
Speaker 1: turn two.
Speaker 2: Yeap, oh my god, that's so good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's why you can't or in like a
Speaker 3: even a less ridiculous kind of world, you could do
Speaker 3: like Lotus pedal Forest channel uhamug.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, yeah, turn.
Speaker 2: One, right, turn one. I have seen that that's enough.
Speaker 1: I have seen a turn one causelect with swift foot
Speaker 1: or with lightning grieves on it on the back of
Speaker 1: a metal worker.
Speaker 2: It's pretty good.
Speaker 1: Metal work is pretty good.
Speaker 2: Metal work of pretty good, like.
Speaker 1: That Greaves with the zero cost equip very good. Guy
Speaker 1: got Annihilator Ford and he didn't even take a turn
Speaker 1: of magic yet He's like, Okay, I guess I'll just
Speaker 1: take ten and sacrifice nothing.
Speaker 2: Card's not even good.
Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, you know who won that game?
Speaker 2: That guy? Me what I remember that he won that game?
Speaker 2: I do on that game?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that guy got pounded for having a turn one
Speaker 1: umug or a cot and I was playing budget Zata
Speaker 1: didn't even have a soul ring.
Speaker 2: Happy good.
Speaker 3: Okay, next one, I'm glad channel stays banned. Dockside Extortionist.
Speaker 3: I'm fine leaving that one off the list, like leaving
Speaker 3: it on the leaving it banded. And I have a
Speaker 3: bunch of them, and yeah, it'd be cool if they
Speaker 3: got unbanned.
Speaker 2: But I think and a lot of the.
Speaker 3: People in our survey group agreed that it's just it
Speaker 3: just gets kind of too egregious.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's let's skip ahead, real quick down to Primeval
Speaker 1: Titan because people are making the comparison Dockside and Primetime
Speaker 1: are essentially the same card, except Docksides way better if you.
Speaker 2: Want to blanket for mana.
Speaker 1: Where Primetime is a lot better if you want to
Speaker 1: like cheap different kinds of lands into play, but it
Speaker 1: costs six, Dockside costs two. Do we leave Primetime on
Speaker 1: the band list? I think that card could come off.
Speaker 3: I think I'm fine with it staying gone for this reason, Okay,
Speaker 3: for this reason, for right now, as of today, February
Speaker 3: twenty eight, twenty twenty five, sure, Prime Evil Titan could
Speaker 3: probably be on the.
Speaker 2: Game Changer list and that would be fine.
Speaker 3: Is like, yep, but Brando, what if they get the
Speaker 3: wasteland in the strip? Mine, sure that could happen. What
Speaker 3: if they get Vesuva and dark Depths? Yeah, you probably
Speaker 3: could do that. What if you get herb Organ coffers coffers, Yeah, sure, yeah,
Speaker 3: Like all those things are gonna happen. Those are all
Speaker 3: things that could happen. Yes, those are all true real
Speaker 3: life things come final fantasy when they print. I don't
Speaker 3: know vector and vector character. It's a it's a city,
Speaker 3: it's the capital city. And Final Fantasy and it comes
Speaker 3: into play and does five damage to every creature you
Speaker 3: don't control.
Speaker 2: They can't be regenerated if they die or something like that.
Speaker 2: You could get another Land that.
Speaker 1: Just is so it's a spell.
Speaker 3: Let's say they take let's say they take Caracas off
Speaker 3: the list, and then you can like God's right. Like
Speaker 3: I feel like Lands and I hate to say the
Speaker 3: word power creep, but I will. Lands are going to
Speaker 3: get power crept as they go, and Primetime, being as
Speaker 3: it is and around, I feel eventually will become a
Speaker 3: problem again and we'll probably have to go off.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: That's kind of I think it's just a design space
Speaker 3: thing where I feel that they're just going to eventually
Speaker 3: print something they breaks.
Speaker 1: They shot themselves in the foot with Primetime, but they
Speaker 1: want to force it back in there to say, hey,
Speaker 1: this is actually okay. Here's the thing about Primetime and
Speaker 1: this whole discussion and new Slash. We're not going to
Speaker 1: get through this whole list today. We're just working on
Speaker 1: I don't want to give I don't want to turn
Speaker 1: over a three hour show to editor Joe.
Speaker 2: Sorry.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing is, if we're using the game Changer's
Speaker 1: list as a tool to filter the band cards through,
Speaker 1: or sorry, we're using the bracket system as a tool
Speaker 1: to filter band cards through. We can say, okay, we're
Speaker 1: never going to see prime Time at brackets one, two,
Speaker 1: and very unfrequently at three. Sure, how often are we
Speaker 1: going to see it at four? Probably often? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: then how often are we going to see it in five?
Speaker 1: Probably not that often?
Speaker 3: Well, in because like five is kind of the way
Speaker 3: I conceptualize it is one of those games where it's
Speaker 3: like an old like a vintage or a legacy game,
Speaker 3: or you win on the back of a three to three, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: Primeval Titan would be cdh's version of that fucking blue
Speaker 3: guy that is a three to two that flies delver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Delver secrets.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think, I think, and we're not super CEDH buffs,
Speaker 1: but I think if you're not winning with a combo
Speaker 1: or trying to go for it right now, you're winning
Speaker 1: on the back of like overwhelming advantage that you accrue throughout.
Speaker 2: The game, which you could get with Prima.
Speaker 1: Definitely you can get that with Primeval Titan, but not
Speaker 1: on the back of how you would do it in
Speaker 1: a more casual thing where you're actually playing like ghostly
Speaker 1: flicker and come up and efemorate. That's how Primetime is
Speaker 1: going to get abused at the three and four level brackets.
Speaker 1: At number five, you're going to accelerate out of six
Speaker 1: six like you do in Modern and just try and
Speaker 1: beat to get overwhelming advantage from the course of turn
Speaker 1: three to turn ten because you're not comboing like And
Speaker 1: I think it's actually totally fine in CDH. I think
Speaker 1: it's totally fine if you want to flicker Primetime at
Speaker 1: lower power levels, And for that reason, I think that
Speaker 1: that's fine because it's six mana you have to get there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, with dock Side, if we go back to dockside,
Speaker 1: it's fricking one or two mana, right, And it's so
Speaker 1: easy to go to get a cost reducer on a
Speaker 1: Goblin or a cost reducer on a creature. It's so
Speaker 1: easy to go mana positive. And it's so easy at
Speaker 1: any power level to flicker something that costs two.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Coalition Victory still unbanned, but Primetime, I think could be.
Speaker 1: If we had to unban two cards, Primetime might be
Speaker 1: the other one.
Speaker 3: Sure, I think that there's other ones that I would
Speaker 3: unband before Primiual Titan.
Speaker 1: Okay, well we'll keep going down the list.
Speaker 3: Here here's a hint. According to this is the one.
Speaker 3: If you guessed this next card on there show yesterday,
Speaker 3: you you have won because this is the one that
Speaker 3: the tables. As soon as I said then everyone's like, no, no,
Speaker 3: leave it forever.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to deal with that crap.
Speaker 3: And the guy sitting next to me very new to magic,
Speaker 3: it's only been playing a couple of months as well,
Speaker 3: what does it do? And I told him it's a
Speaker 3: fifteen to fifteen for fifteen that can't be countered, that
Speaker 3: has Annihilator six and flying and has protection from colored spells.
Speaker 3: And he was like, oh yeah, that can stay banned forever.
Speaker 3: Em Ra Cool, Emra Cool, the Eon Storm.
Speaker 1: Emmeracool one. Oh man, I wish I had a big
Speaker 1: card emmera Cool.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and when you cast it you take an
Speaker 3: extra turn also that yes, as if it wasn't enough,
Speaker 3: here's thing.
Speaker 1: If Emmer Cool didn't have that extra turn clause, that
Speaker 1: card would be unbanned so fast. You're probably right, But
Speaker 1: in a world and I think emmera Cool, I think
Speaker 1: a little bit Emmercool paid for Tilarian Academy sins because
Speaker 1: those cards were illegal at the same time. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think that people really got tired of Tilarian Academy bullshit.
Speaker 1: Yeah that got banned an DH back in like two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine or ten or whatever. Yeah, because everybody
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, turn three, em or cool.
Speaker 1: I'll take an extra turn annihilate for you six six,
Speaker 1: bounce my emra cool.
Speaker 2: Do it again.
Speaker 1: I'll take an extra turn down. I'll hit you for six,
Speaker 1: fifteen and six.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I think a little bit if I was if I
Speaker 1: was going to gun to my head unbanned Coalition.
Speaker 3: Victory or emmor cool from the Coalition victory. Yes, I
Speaker 3: think I'm assuming we can probably as much as I
Speaker 3: want to. I would love to play it in my
Speaker 3: Wolfguard deck, which is all El Drazi.
Speaker 2: All the time. I understand why I can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, though, I'll say this, maybe this
Speaker 1: is a hot take. I want to live in a
Speaker 1: world where Emorkol is legal. I want to live in
Speaker 1: that world.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm not super afraid of it, as I as
Speaker 3: somebody that plays a deck that's stuffed with creatures.
Speaker 2: That have huge annihilator and I was lot of stuff
Speaker 2: somebody with emol right.
Speaker 3: I don't think it would actually be that egregious in
Speaker 3: most cases. And again, people always look at it like
Speaker 3: they do jeweled Lotus, where they look at the most
Speaker 3: insane scenarios the turn one, the turn two, emor cool
Speaker 3: as opposed to like the second turn you draw at
Speaker 3: you have no ramp and only three land and you
Speaker 3: have a fifteen fifteen for fifteen in your hands.
Speaker 1: And you're the you never play and your deck is
Speaker 1: also full of other el drawsis that cost between eight
Speaker 1: and fourteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, speaking of somebody that has lived that reality, it sucks,
Speaker 3: and having one that costs fifteen instead of twelve wouldn't
Speaker 3: really change how I feel on my insides that much now.
Speaker 1: So there you know what, I know. I could play
Speaker 1: Legacy and I could go like Omniscience emer cool show
Speaker 1: and tell Omniscients memorical. I know that that's a deck,
Speaker 1: so maybe that's where I go and use my emoric cools.
Speaker 2: I think I got two of them. Four Oh yeah yeah, foils.
Speaker 1: Alternate arts yep, hell yeah, brother yeah buddy, okay a
Speaker 1: ryosra Tommy ascended this flippy Dippy card.
Speaker 2: I used to play this card.
Speaker 3: Actually it's a I think it's a something something for
Speaker 3: blue one.
Speaker 2: It doesn't really matter what.
Speaker 3: It does initially, but when you cast a fourth spell
Speaker 3: of the turn, it flips over and on the bottom
Speaker 3: half that's where it gets egregious, where it counters the
Speaker 3: first spell played by each opponent on each turn.
Speaker 1: And it stops being a creature.
Speaker 2: Very important, yes.
Speaker 1: That in that it it just a legendary enchantment at
Speaker 1: that point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, Like I'm telling you, every time I played that,
Speaker 3: it flipped over the turn I played.
Speaker 2: It, and every time that happened, I won that game.
Speaker 2: Because it just.
Speaker 3: If you do it early enough, it essentially stops your
Speaker 3: opponents from doing anything but play land. And then for
Speaker 3: the rest you gotta wait until they get to the
Speaker 3: point where you're casting two spells a turn and they
Speaker 3: have to like start picking which of their stuff they
Speaker 3: want to like essentially.
Speaker 2: Sacrifice or to try and get around it.
Speaker 1: It's you know what's so fantastic about this that is
Speaker 1: so hard to beat is if if it's my turn
Speaker 1: and I try to cast a creature, it gets countered
Speaker 1: and then I have to cast a second creature. So
Speaker 1: whatever I do is throwaway. But then on your turn,
Speaker 1: if you're attacking me and I go sorts to plowshares,
Speaker 1: it actually gets countered again. My first spell on each
Speaker 1: turn is countered, so I gotta go like bullshit throw
Speaker 1: away instant speed. And then, oh my god, this car
Speaker 1: is so hard to play through. I remember when it
Speaker 1: uh when it got banned as a commander, right, it
Speaker 1: was banned as a commander, and I I had a
Speaker 1: foil one in my Grand Arbiter deck of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I had a foil one in my Barren Master
Speaker 1: Wizard deck that blinked ammer Quillan Academy before that, because
Speaker 1: I was a piece of shit, And man, I can
Speaker 1: definitely see why it's banned. It just changes the game
Speaker 1: into like everything you have to do everything twice.
Speaker 3: It warps the whole game around it in the same
Speaker 3: manner that HEROBI does, but in a more like brutal.
Speaker 2: Game up way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, stay banned. Absolutely, Keep Coalition Victory off the band list, absolutely,
Speaker 1: all right, Falling Star, that's another dick sterity dexterity. Okay,
Speaker 1: fast bond, here we go.
Speaker 2: I'm fine to leave that one on that bond. Baby,
Speaker 2: Our local lands player. Aiden was that. He looked at
Speaker 2: me like this, you.
Speaker 1: Think fast Bond should be on banned? What are you
Speaker 1: fucking high?
Speaker 3: Yes, that's exactly yes, he said. I'm the lands player
Speaker 3: and I don't want it. Okay, So it's an enchantment
Speaker 3: for green Yep. You can play any number of lands per.
Speaker 2: Turn, correct, but after your first.
Speaker 1: Regular ass land drop, it's one life per land you
Speaker 1: put into play. Yes, what if you have like what
Speaker 1: if you have cards that say you could play an
Speaker 1: extra land per turn?
Speaker 2: You would take one each? Oh?
Speaker 1: You still do? You still take damage even though you
Speaker 1: can play two.
Speaker 2: Loungdu unless they've rated it. I can't see why they would.
Speaker 1: I don't care. It's still powerful. It still does what
Speaker 1: you want it to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you have four And the reason that it's
Speaker 3: banned initially is like whoa, what if you have a
Speaker 3: hand with seven land in it, then your top decking
Speaker 3: and you might top deck more land and it didn't
Speaker 3: do anything for you. You always have your commander in
Speaker 3: the command zone, you know what I mean? You could
Speaker 3: go land fast bond land land land land commander turned.
Speaker 2: One, Yes, and you're off to the races, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You could also do something like necropotence or ad
Speaker 1: nauseum and draw twenty five cards fast bond, put twenty
Speaker 1: five land onto play into play. If you're a lands player, like,
Speaker 1: that's one hundred percent what I would do in my
Speaker 1: lands deck.
Speaker 3: You could play scoot Swarm in one of those bounce
Speaker 3: those Kru lands that bounce themselves back to your hand
Speaker 3: from ramnuic.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And if you have a if you
Speaker 1: have a soul sister in play, like an essence Warden
Speaker 1: because you know it's also green like scoot Swarm and
Speaker 1: fast Bond. And if you have a Careu land and
Speaker 1: they make those in monocolor they're from Mirage, look them up.
Speaker 1: It gives you green and one instead of two different colors, yep.
Speaker 1: Or you could do the colorless one and you could
Speaker 1: just infinite bounce and replay and gain life when scoot
Speaker 1: Swarms come into the battlefield. Yeah, so that that would
Speaker 1: be a combo that you could do as early as
Speaker 1: turn two, turn turn one. If you're playing like Moxes
Speaker 1: and shit, you could do that combo turn one.
Speaker 3: It's wild so fast fast Bond can cough flash also for.
Speaker 1: Off flash that ruined ceh for a while that was okay,
Speaker 1: this was a posterity band, though this was a band
Speaker 1: because CEDH players wanted it banned. It's it's a blue
Speaker 1: and one instant. You have to sacrifice a creature to
Speaker 1: put a creature from your hand onto the battlefield.
Speaker 3: Right, you put a creature into play, Oh, and then
Speaker 3: you have to sacrifice it unless you pay its converted
Speaker 3: man acost minus blue and one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, by the end of the turn or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right right? Then?
Speaker 1: Oh, so you get your ETB and then your guy
Speaker 1: fucks off because you don't care. Correct, you'd put in
Speaker 1: a protein hulk and then which it would immediately die,
Speaker 1: and then you search for seven cmc worth of creatures
Speaker 1: from your deck. And those seven cmc worth of creatures
Speaker 1: is like three or four creatures that all combo together instantly.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that, and I'm gonna I would say leave
Speaker 3: it on the band list because the CDCH guys asked
Speaker 3: for it to be put on the band list. And
Speaker 3: if they're the ones asking for it, who were we
Speaker 3: to who are we to argue with them?
Speaker 1: Nobody I don't think is playing flash fairly. And the
Speaker 1: CDH people wanted it on there because it was ruining
Speaker 1: their format because their format plays all all the tutors.
Speaker 1: They just find Flash in the first couple turns, you
Speaker 1: top deck Flash with all your free manner ROCs. You
Speaker 1: basically instantly win on turn one. So I was gonna
Speaker 1: leave it on the list because CDH guys wanted on
Speaker 1: the list for the same reason as you, Yep, gifts un.
Speaker 2: Given, gifts un given.
Speaker 3: We had a a I wouldn't say a lively debate,
Speaker 3: but lots of discussion about it. It's a an instant
Speaker 3: for blue three. Yeah, I think it's blue three. You
Speaker 3: search your library for four cards with different names yep,
Speaker 3: and opponent puts two of them into your hand and
Speaker 3: two of them into your band. I actually think it's worded.
Speaker 3: Two of them go into your they pick two, those
Speaker 3: two go to your graveyard, and the other two go
Speaker 3: into your hand.
Speaker 1: Target. Opponent chooses two of those cards, put the chosen
Speaker 1: cards into your yard and the rest into your hand.
Speaker 2: There we go and up to four cards.
Speaker 3: And what you find is your combo pieces and then
Speaker 3: reanimation pieces for your combo pieces and win.
Speaker 1: Or you just find four of the exact same thing,
Speaker 1: like four regrowth effects, because you already have something in
Speaker 1: your graveyard that you want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And I remember the first time I got gifts un
Speaker 1: given by my friend Mitch. He searched for regrowth, yog moths, will,
Speaker 1: black lotus, and mox pearl. That's what he searched for.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, fuck, I don't know. I've never
Speaker 1: even seen a black lotus before. This is pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess I'll just lose.
Speaker 1: I guess whatever I put in, you're just gonna get back, right,
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, that's exactly why I picked two
Speaker 1: things that get me stuffed back for my graveyard.
Speaker 3: And the yogmoths Will would have made him for Manu,
Speaker 3: because he would have got his lotus and his fricking
Speaker 3: mox back and his regrowth twice if I gave him
Speaker 3: the fricking regrowth and the yog moths will.
Speaker 2: Man that's good.
Speaker 1: Give them given though. I think, honestly, I think that
Speaker 1: I think he keep.
Speaker 3: I think you unbanned that card. I'd be open to
Speaker 3: trying it, honestly. And I think that some of the
Speaker 3: guys that we were talking to yesterday was also on
Speaker 3: that kind of same wavelength where we could we could
Speaker 3: maybe try it.
Speaker 1: The thing about Gifts un Given is just like Flash,
Speaker 1: nobody would use it fairly. I can think of exactly
Speaker 1: one deck that I would put it in, and it
Speaker 1: exactly is going to get me graveyard guitar backers and
Speaker 1: my combo piece. That's the only thing that that card
Speaker 1: will ever find.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I probably wouldn't even play it.
Speaker 3: I honestly wouldn't I own a couple and I wouldn't
Speaker 3: play it if.
Speaker 2: It was unbanned. I'm not aching to play that card.
Speaker 1: So I would have a fucking force, a will, and
Speaker 1: a Pact of Negation in my hand, and on your
Speaker 1: end of turn, I would cast Gifts Ungiven, and I
Speaker 1: would search for Graveyard Guitar Backers and Maddening Caciphonium a
Speaker 1: brewvac deck, and I am playing that card next turn.
Speaker 1: And there's nothing that you can do about it because
Speaker 1: I have two free counter spells for backup for both
Speaker 1: these spells.
Speaker 2: There it is.
Speaker 1: That's like, that's how it's gonna get used. And even
Speaker 1: though that's the case, I would still say, Hey, let's
Speaker 1: maybe unban this. How different really is this than Demonic
Speaker 1: Tutor for the same card.
Speaker 2: Well, you get four cards instead of one. Ah, that's
Speaker 2: what makes it different.
Speaker 1: And it's an instant. It is an instant. It is
Speaker 1: an instant. But you do have to do some work.
Speaker 1: You have to do some work to make those four cards.
Speaker 1: You have to have a plan.
Speaker 2: You've done the work when you built the deck.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you're right, And that's the argument. That's why
Speaker 1: you would stay banned is because it's in there, because
Speaker 1: it's gonna find my same shit every time, just like
Speaker 1: a tutor exactly, except it tutors for two things. Really
Speaker 1: a tutors for four, but it's you get two of them.
Speaker 2: Yes, moving along, that one can stay fucked off.
Speaker 1: So we're still unbanning Coalition Victory.
Speaker 3: Well, if we're doing, I mean, Coalition Victory is gonna
Speaker 3: be hard to beat. And Bio Rhythm also.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, okay those are our two so far.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, we can skip Goloskiri Grizzle Brand staying banned forever.
Speaker 1: Grizzle Band.
Speaker 2: We heard hull Breach.
Speaker 3: Here's the one that lots of people like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I think I'd be fine with that.
Speaker 1: Cock.
Speaker 3: Here's the the unless hull Breacher is a creature for
Speaker 3: Blue and two with flash and it says on it
Speaker 3: if a creed, if a player would draw card other
Speaker 3: than the first card they draw each turn instead, they
Speaker 3: just fucking don't, and we make a treasure token.
Speaker 1: Yes, very specifically first one. They drawed each of their
Speaker 1: draw steps. So if I brainstorm on your turn, hullbreacher,
Speaker 1: doesn't actually stop that because that's not during my draw step.
Speaker 2: No, no, it does stop that.
Speaker 1: Yes, sorry, it does stop.
Speaker 3: Now I get three and you put two cards in
Speaker 3: your hand back into play.
Speaker 1: It doesn't stop me from drawing during my draw step.
Speaker 2: That's what corrects.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so I can still draw if I draw
Speaker 1: any other cards you make a treasure instead. Yes, I
Speaker 1: get nothing.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 3: So, and the the reasoning for this can be this
Speaker 3: is fine as long as opposition agent is fine. If
Speaker 3: this is banned, opposition agent should be banned, and vice versa.
Speaker 3: That was the argument that we were that I was
Speaker 3: kind of presented with at the time. I don't know
Speaker 3: how I feel about that, because I think this is.
Speaker 2: Much more egregious. An opposition agent is.
Speaker 1: Uh okay, But I thought you were talking about Notion Thief,
Speaker 1: which is another card just like this. It's a four
Speaker 1: drop with flash that when at Etb's, if you were
Speaker 1: gonna draw cards, I draw them instead, right would you
Speaker 1: rather have you don't draw cards and I do, or
Speaker 1: you don't draw cards and I get treasure?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What is it like? If this is not fine? Why
Speaker 1: is notion thief fine? I don't know, don't I don't know?
Speaker 1: Somebody explained that to me, Like I'm five now it
Speaker 1: costs two different colors down in the comments, it costs four,
Speaker 1: Like those are both strikes against notion thief or strikes
Speaker 1: against hullbreacher because it costs three and is one color
Speaker 1: it's easier to cast. Yes, but man, I like, a
Speaker 1: treasure is definitely worth a card.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but a card is a fucking card. But a
Speaker 2: card is a card, and that one's fine.
Speaker 1: And you know what The other thing, too, is it
Speaker 1: scales accordingly a treasure the higher competition you go, Like
Speaker 1: if you're playing this off the game changer's list brackets three, four, five,
Speaker 1: a treasure gets more valuable because cards get cheaper and
Speaker 1: more streamlined. And a card is a card though treasures
Speaker 1: let me cast those cards that get powerful more powerful
Speaker 1: as I go up. Yep, but the cards get that
Speaker 1: much better so like Notion Thief actually gets better in
Speaker 1: higher competition games, just like Haullbreacher does, just like a
Speaker 1: treasure does.
Speaker 2: And here's how you do it. You play both.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what, I think, Notion Thief and
Speaker 1: Hall Bridger should both be on the Game Changer's list.
Speaker 1: There's one that I've never heard anybody say it. Why
Speaker 1: Notion Thief on the Game Changer list?
Speaker 3: I forget that frickin Notion Thief even exists, if I'm honest,
Speaker 3: like it's been so long since I've thought of that card.
Speaker 2: I actually get one and play it in a deck.
Speaker 2: You spelled thief, I.
Speaker 1: Spilled th frong. Yeah, flash three to one black blue
Speaker 1: to if an appoint would draw a card except for
Speaker 1: the first one they draw on each of their draw steps,
Speaker 1: just like Hullbreacher. Instead that player skips that and I
Speaker 1: draw that card.
Speaker 2: And they're worth proximately fifty cents or six Canadian dollars.
Speaker 1: Yes, so Hallbreacher man if if Oppo Agents not on
Speaker 1: the band list and Notion Thief isn't, Thief, ain't even
Speaker 1: looked at both of those cards and Hallbreacher all Game
Speaker 1: Changer list unbanned Hall Breacher unbannam, Sure, unbannam, I'd care
Speaker 1: what C says about this one.
Speaker 3: Unbannam, I'd be willing to try. And how many times
Speaker 3: did you actually run into the guy that was playing
Speaker 3: if people even play neck Whu's are anymore that? Like?
Speaker 2: Wheel you with it on?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Does that? Did that ever happen?
Speaker 1: Well? Wheel decks are certainly decks, yeah, and notion, he
Speaker 1: certainly goes in those decks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, it's already happening. Yeah, I own it.
Speaker 3: She can stay on. She's the I think she's the
Speaker 3: ultimate feel bad card. Ye, And I'm perfectly fine with
Speaker 3: her staying on the band list.
Speaker 1: On banner she got nine, I'm I'm letting everybody out
Speaker 1: of jail.
Speaker 2: Nine. Nine is five.
Speaker 1: Nine doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: You could play nine.
Speaker 3: You could play Iona fairly consistently in any game that
Speaker 3: you draw her in, And the fact that she could
Speaker 3: be in your command zone is.
Speaker 1: How then you're playing mono white and your commander's freaking nine.
Speaker 2: That's not as bad as you might think.
Speaker 3: Now, Iona, for the people who don't know, is a
Speaker 3: seven to seven flying angel for white, white, white six.
Speaker 2: When she comes into.
Speaker 3: Play, you pick color and your opponents can't play spells
Speaker 3: of that color as long as she's in play cards.
Speaker 1: That's a mighty powerful magic to gather.
Speaker 3: Car Like if you have a mono green, a teamer
Speaker 3: and Gulgary or whatever Gulgary player at the table, you
Speaker 3: just turn all their decks off.
Speaker 1: You pick all greens are gone? No no green for you?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and man, she costs nine. You could re animate
Speaker 1: her like you can put her in your angel deck,
Speaker 1: put her in your creature deck, your animator deck.
Speaker 3: She was one of my Dredge targets and I played
Speaker 3: Legacy Dredge. Yeah that's good because just turned my Pones
Speaker 3: deck off. Yeah that's good and I got a seven
Speaker 3: to seven with lying.
Speaker 1: Yet really good against more folk or goblins or burn
Speaker 1: all decks in like of that time she turned them
Speaker 1: all off.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh stay banned. Yeah, it's feel bad.
Speaker 2: I'm fine with her staying band you know what, I.
Speaker 1: Look at her like she changes games and shuts like
Speaker 1: time walks guys like Emmer cool does emmer coool? If
Speaker 1: that's staying on the list, then Iona stays on the list,
Speaker 1: is my my theory, Like if I was making a
Speaker 1: bracket and like the bracket would be emmoricool versus Iona
Speaker 1: who who gets unbanned? Fuck? I think that one that
Speaker 1: would be a tough bracket.
Speaker 2: That's a hard It would be a tough bracket. He
Speaker 2: let us know down below, you have to unbanned one.
Speaker 2: Which one is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Man, okay, Caracas, I want this card on band.
Speaker 2: I am fine with it staying banned. Throw white a bone,
Speaker 2: come on for.
Speaker 3: For the reason that only white can play it. If
Speaker 3: it was a colorless land, I think I would be.
Speaker 2: More apt to unbann it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I give it to blue and green and black. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and nope, just white, just white, No Caracas, you tap
Speaker 1: it for a white, or you tap it and return
Speaker 1: a legendary creature to its owner's hand.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so it essentially makes it so somebody never
Speaker 3: has access to the commander, or your commander can never.
Speaker 2: Die, or like, it's just it's very very very good.
Speaker 3: Alex bought four of them because he didn't know that
Speaker 3: they were banned. Ooh, I figured it was reprinted in
Speaker 3: Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2: Why would they reprint banned cards? And then now we know.
Speaker 1: I got my Caracas box topper from Fusion Gaming Online
Speaker 1: dot Com using well the promo code at the time,
Speaker 1: but today's promo code CeCe you holiday get a discount
Speaker 1: on your Karraki. If they're gonna get.
Speaker 2: Unbanned like I want them to, I don't think they will.
Speaker 1: I won't think they I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think they will.
Speaker 3: It's I think that it's a more of a feelings
Speaker 3: stay band, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think because it's only a it's a it's a
Speaker 2: white card and.
Speaker 1: No, I freaking hate it.
Speaker 2: I want it unbanned. Good. I'm glad you hate it.
Speaker 2: And I like Legends. One I think is my Legends
Speaker 2: one to play Legends. I think I have a Legends one.
Speaker 1: Too, Caracus.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Another in the long line of list of things that
Speaker 1: I want unbanned Jewel.
Speaker 2: Lotus and Manic Crypt unbann them both unbannam. Yes.
Speaker 1: Now they're not gonna do that because everybody offloaded them
Speaker 1: because they're cheap, and it's gonna be a butt hurt,
Speaker 1: feel bad thing. Those people I want to play those cards.
Speaker 2: Don't be a coward. Keep your shit.
Speaker 1: Hold on to your feelings forever, ye never let them out,
Speaker 1: especially your feelings that are called jeweled Lotus.
Speaker 2: And if you're I mean, I don't want to call
Speaker 2: anybody a dirt bag.
Speaker 3: But if you took a jeweled Lotus that is completely
Speaker 3: unplayable in any format of magic the gathering, anywhere, anytime, anywhere, ever,
Speaker 3: and nobody's ever gonna want to buy it again for
Speaker 3: any amount of money because it's completely unplayable, and then
Speaker 3: you trade it into your LGS that you play at
Speaker 3: and gives you a place to hang out and just
Speaker 3: take fifty dollars of their money.
Speaker 2: Are you a dirt bag? Because I feel like you
Speaker 2: might be. Yeah, you know what I want?
Speaker 1: Jeweled Lotus. I had this conversation in the CCO discord.
Speaker 1: If you want to get in the discord, support us
Speaker 1: on patrons, great old time. I had this conversation on discord,
Speaker 1: and the general consensus from everybody who was not me
Speaker 1: was Jeweled Lotus is a net neutral card for the format.
Speaker 1: It blows games wide open if you turn one and
Speaker 1: can cast your commander turn one, especially in combo decks
Speaker 1: or at high power level. Yes, that's the exact reason
Speaker 1: that burst mana five man on turn two, for example,
Speaker 1: was the exact reason cited that.
Speaker 2: It was banned. Correct.
Speaker 1: I think Okay, And here's the thing. You only get
Speaker 1: one opening turn in the game. You only get one
Speaker 1: turn one, you only get one turn two. You only
Speaker 1: get one early game. Yes, and sure you could apply
Speaker 1: the same logic to middle of the game. In late
Speaker 1: game you get one mid game, you get one end game.
Speaker 1: But really, those two portions of the game blend together
Speaker 1: and end up just being not your early game. And
Speaker 1: I think that Juele Lotus in that portion of the
Speaker 1: game is great. I think if you're playing a five, six,
Speaker 1: seven eight drop Commander, jeweled Lotus is great. Yeah, because well,
Speaker 1: like Talkshrol, how many times you cast talk show for
Speaker 1: eleven oh so many? Wouldn't Jude Lotus be great there?
Speaker 2: Sure would also.
Speaker 1: With a seven drop Commander like Talkshow seven right, yep,
Speaker 1: you're not going to cast talk shurl on turn two probably,
Speaker 1: especially in your Talkshural deck that is very definitely not.
Speaker 2: A CEDH deck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where you're very definitely not playing any other burst
Speaker 1: manna right. I think that because it helps decks, because
Speaker 1: it's a very cornerstone type of card for the format
Speaker 1: of Commander. Never mind the game of Commander, but the format.
Speaker 1: It says Commander and command zone and all that shit
Speaker 1: right on it, and that's what it's for. So the
Speaker 1: field goods when you when when players open it and packs,
Speaker 1: and what it does for the middle and end of game.
Speaker 1: I think are good enough reasons to unban it, because
Speaker 1: like those are those are good reasons to have that
Speaker 1: card in your deck. It also gives you burst manna,
Speaker 1: and that's important to some people also in the four
Speaker 1: and five brackets. That is a reason to unban it,
Speaker 1: the burst manna. When power levels are mismatched, or you're
Speaker 1: playing for money or prizes in a CDH tournament and
Speaker 1: somebody luck sack top deck opening hands, they're jeweled lotus
Speaker 1: and you fucking lose. I mean, that might be a
Speaker 1: reason to to keep it banned. But also you're getting
Speaker 1: into CEDH, like you know that that's that's what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: That's what's gonna happen.
Speaker 3: What's gonna happen, and it's probably gonna happen probably the
Speaker 3: same percentage of the time.
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen when they unbanned Coalition Victory's gonna happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Transgild Courier Baby and whatever that card you said.
Speaker 3: Was prismatic vista, chismatic vista, chrismatic omenic omen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 3: So the moral of the story is we can unban
Speaker 3: field Lotus and manacrypts.
Speaker 2: I have them and I want to play them. Maniccrypt,
Speaker 2: I don't know, not unbanned if we want to limit.
Speaker 1: The amount of burst manna like probability, I don't. I
Speaker 1: think I think that the man of Crypt stays bad. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's way more continuously usable, yeah than.
Speaker 2: Some lightning bolts. Me every turn shocks you. That's three?
Speaker 1: What his three?
Speaker 2: That's three? Is three? Is three?
Speaker 3: See lightning but one of the best cards in magic
Speaker 3: ce Ceco siqwatch not season three, episode one on YouTube now, Yes, sir,
Speaker 3: to learn how good lightning Bolt is?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, very good.
Speaker 2: Uh leo old we're gonna go. We're gonna keep over
Speaker 2: him and Library.
Speaker 1: Library of Alexander.
Speaker 2: You don't wan to talk about that one, no, because
Speaker 2: it's freaking good.
Speaker 3: It's a card that when we were we explained it
Speaker 3: like the kind of the the old guys at the
Speaker 3: table sort of explained how it worked and what it
Speaker 3: does to all the people.
Speaker 2: Was like, I don't even know why it's on there,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 3: We told them how much it costs, and they were like, yeah,
Speaker 3: like who who even cares? Like nobody's ever gonna play that.
Speaker 3: It's thirteen hundred dollars Yeah, for a land that taps
Speaker 3: for a colorless or you can tap it to draw
Speaker 3: card if you have seven cards in your hand.
Speaker 1: So when you play it in your opening hand, after
Speaker 1: you've drawn your card for turn, you just draw another card.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then on your turn when you go up to eight,
Speaker 1: when you draw your card and play your second land,
Speaker 1: you just draw another card and it's your fucking land
Speaker 1: that's doing that. This card very powerful. I think price
Speaker 1: prohibition makes it not very out in the wild. I
Speaker 1: think it would be fine to unbanned for that reason.
Speaker 1: I think that if it was on the game Changer's list,
Speaker 1: you would you would see it so infrequently that it
Speaker 1: wouldn't matter if it got on banned unbanned, you know,
Speaker 1: like whatever, limited resources. Now, this is a card I
Speaker 1: was actually I was actually excited to talk to you about,
Speaker 1: because this is this is like a this is like
Speaker 1: a stax card. Stax card indeed, okay, white enchantment. Whenever
Speaker 1: in a chant enters, each player chooses five lands they
Speaker 1: control and bins the rest. Players can't play lands as
Speaker 1: long as there are ten or more lands on the battlefield.
Speaker 1: M this is why you want your maniccrypt On banned,
Speaker 1: so you can play maniccrypt and a bunch of man
Speaker 1: of Rocks and nobody can play lands. That's right now.
Speaker 1: Ten lands between two players. Like when this card came
Speaker 1: out and Exodus was like, okay, sure, ten lands between
Speaker 1: four players is not very many lanes.
Speaker 2: That's not okay.
Speaker 1: That's like two or three lands per person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I'll bet you in the average Commander game,
Speaker 3: I'll bet you that's turn two.
Speaker 2: You're probably up near nine or ten land already.
Speaker 3: Yes, because there's two lands per person per turn, that's eight.
Speaker 3: If two players ramp, that's ten land right there, and
Speaker 3: you can't play anymore.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can put them into play though, you can
Speaker 2: put them into play. Yes.
Speaker 3: So this is this is one of those kind of
Speaker 3: feel baddy ones. This grinds games to a miserable hault.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: It very definitely reads like it's gonna be in the
Speaker 1: same deck as Armageddon and other Stacks pieces because you're
Speaker 1: finding a way around it, Like I don't care about
Speaker 1: lands in my planes walker deck, or in my artifact
Speaker 1: deck that makes ten treasures a turn.
Speaker 3: Or my deck that has all of my dudes taped
Speaker 3: for Mana. Yes, like, it's so easy for you as
Speaker 3: a deck building human to get around limited resources, whereas
Speaker 3: your opponents now are essentially just out.
Speaker 2: Of the game.
Speaker 1: Now that said, if blood Moon and other Mana denial
Speaker 1: cards are not on the game changer's list, but there
Speaker 1: is a rule that governs it in saying no Mana
Speaker 1: denial in mass or in the first portion of the game,
Speaker 1: if you're in brackets one or two or three, I
Speaker 1: think limited resources could be unbanned safely, and it's gonna
Speaker 1: go into the same decks that are already doing that
Speaker 1: kind of bullshit anyways, grinding the game, du halt stacksing destroying.
Speaker 3: Lands, I don't know if you can have I wouldn't
Speaker 3: put blood Moon in limited resources on the same level
Speaker 3: because if you're playing basic lands in your deck, blood
Speaker 3: Moon doesn't do anything.
Speaker 2: Okay, yep, like blood you.
Speaker 3: Could play a blood Moon and have it do literal
Speaker 3: nothing if if you just and you don't need to
Speaker 3: have one hundred percent basic lands as your man of base,
Speaker 3: but you need to have a couple and you need
Speaker 3: to be aware of that. If you run into a
Speaker 3: mono red player and you play a fetch land, maybe
Speaker 3: fetch you a basic, and then their blood moon that
Speaker 3: they might play later on in the game means nothing.
Speaker 2: You know what they did.
Speaker 1: Resources does not allow for that.
Speaker 3: Limited resources doesn't account for that, and it essentially especially
Speaker 3: if kind of you're at five, you have five of
Speaker 3: the lands and your opponents now have to kind of
Speaker 3: squabble over who gets the other five, right the Lion's
Speaker 3: share exactly, so like that could It's just it's a nightmare.
Speaker 1: I love, I love. I know that land playing is
Speaker 1: at sorcery speed, but I love kind of thinking about
Speaker 1: like man like when when do I crack my fetch land?
Speaker 1: If limited resources is like on the battlefield.
Speaker 3: And I know that this is magical Christmas land kind
Speaker 3: of town kind but let's say you have two extra
Speaker 3: Let's say have two land drops of turn sure and
Speaker 3: you can play lands from your band. Yeah, and one
Speaker 3: of your lands is a strip mine, so you strip
Speaker 3: mine one of your opponent's lands to bring total land
Speaker 3: count down to nine.
Speaker 2: Then you play an additional land or you're.
Speaker 3: Strip mine again, giving you a land, right, and then
Speaker 3: you just keep strip minding your land until you have
Speaker 3: all ten.
Speaker 2: Of the available lands, like I you know, and I.
Speaker 3: Know that that's not happened very often, but that's the
Speaker 3: first thing I'm gonna try to do.
Speaker 1: I think, I think that decks that want to do
Speaker 1: that are trying to do that anyways. Right like my
Speaker 1: lands deck, I know, I know with certainty that I
Speaker 1: couldn't beat a guy, So instead of trying to beat him,
Speaker 1: I can play four lands of Return, and I got
Speaker 1: a strip mine in my grave bed. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: start going to fucking town and I'm.
Speaker 3: Gonna strip every single goddamn thing he's got until he
Speaker 3: can do nothing forever. He's gonna be nobody from nowhere
Speaker 3: and that's that's the game.
Speaker 1: And then he's just gonna have to scoop. He's got
Speaker 1: a lock on the table, but I've got more cards
Speaker 1: in my library than him, and he can do nothing.
Speaker 3: Yes, limited resources gives me just a way to really
Speaker 3: really enforce that, really enforce.
Speaker 1: That by saying, listen, I already have ten. I'm the
Speaker 1: captain now, and I do this. I don't know unbanned
Speaker 1: Fu Lou Tree, keep them banned, to keep it banned.
Speaker 3: All the mocks and go to hell now to keep
Speaker 3: them banned. Panoptic Mirror, I'd like this one. Panoptic Mirror
Speaker 3: is an artifact for five. It has X tap remove
Speaker 3: an instant or sorcery card with manecost x from your
Speaker 3: hand imprinted onto Panoptic Mirror. At the beginning of your upkeep,
Speaker 3: you may copy a spell xyle with Panoptic Mirror and play.
Speaker 2: It for free.
Speaker 3: It is banned because of cards like Time Walk, where
Speaker 3: you exile Time Walk and then at the beginning of
Speaker 3: your upkeep you play Time Walk for free and take
Speaker 3: infinite turns.
Speaker 1: A just question malish Time Walk also banned.
Speaker 3: Time Warp Time Warp, Time Warp You mean, yes, that
Speaker 3: is what I event.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's exactly the reason it's banned. It's been on
Speaker 1: the Commander band list, I think since Commander existed because
Speaker 1: of that exact reason, like when we started playing EDH
Speaker 1: like in twenty and eight or nine, an Optic Mirror
Speaker 1: already banned for that exact reason. And like other cards
Speaker 1: we've talked about, nobody's doing anything with that scept that yes,
Speaker 1: I think that people don't play Panoptic Mirror because they're
Speaker 1: not interested in spending ten to do really anything. Because
Speaker 1: it's five. Then you got to imprint it, and then
Speaker 1: you can cast it and you've got a way to turn. Probably,
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's interested in paying that amount of
Speaker 1: manna unless you're getting something like an extra turn every turn,
Speaker 1: or something like an We're Cool, or something like a
Speaker 1: insurrection every fricken turn where you just take all the
Speaker 1: turn insurrection, take all your guys, they all get haste.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it every turn, extra turn, every turn,
Speaker 1: and they're all mine. Yes, right, Like, I think this
Speaker 1: card stays banned.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's no reason to do unband that.
Speaker 1: I would definitely put it in my my Marvel Extra
Speaker 1: Turns deck if it did get unbanned.
Speaker 2: Paradox Engine, Paradox Engine. We talked about this lots.
Speaker 3: Actually, this was one of the ones that we actually
Speaker 3: sat and like we had to order another round of
Speaker 3: beers to talk about. And the the reason that we
Speaker 3: all decided, as as the members of the nation, that
Speaker 3: this card should probably stayed off is because it can
Speaker 3: lead to the three or it does. It's an artifact
Speaker 3: for five. Yes, whenever you cast a spell, you untap
Speaker 3: all your non land permanence pretty good. So you play
Speaker 3: a bunch of rocks, you tap the rocks, play a
Speaker 3: spell on tap the rocks, tap the rocks to play
Speaker 3: with spell.
Speaker 2: And what it often devolves into are these long bulls
Speaker 2: long turn where it's just one guy kind of these
Speaker 2: are the turns.
Speaker 3: That we joke about all the time, like, yeah, the
Speaker 3: guy took a forty five minute turn, did one damage
Speaker 3: to that guy, three damage to themselves, and drew one
Speaker 3: card or.
Speaker 1: Drew twenty cards and whiff because he didn't get what
Speaker 1: he needed. He didn't draw his tutor for his combo piece,
Speaker 1: or he didn't get his damage engine. I played Paradox
Speaker 1: Engine in my Zata deck before it got banned, and
Speaker 1: it was it's a non deterministic combo card where once
Speaker 1: it's online and the engine is rolling moving, you can
Speaker 1: do the thing, but it doesn't actually win you the
Speaker 1: game without help from something else. And that's something else
Speaker 1: sometimes and usually takes a long time to materialize. So
Speaker 1: usually it's by way of like I'm just gonna continue,
Speaker 1: like making infinite manna and drawing a card when I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do a thing, but a lot of the
Speaker 1: man is usually colorless, and it's usually like a paradox engine,
Speaker 1: and then you got to usually find like an isochron
Speaker 1: sceptor and a omatic reversal or whatever it's called, and
Speaker 1: then you can bounce everything and like it's a whole
Speaker 1: thing and it's bullshit. And it was banned because it's very,
Speaker 1: very powerful and hard to stop because there's no central thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well aside from it except for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no central thing. Though. If I destroy a
Speaker 1: paradox engine, you can probably get it back because you
Speaker 1: built your deck, right, Yeah, because you're doing it. It's
Speaker 1: an art of fact because it's a paradox engine deck
Speaker 1: and and it's powerful, but it's also bullshit and it
Speaker 1: takes away my agency to play the game. It takes
Speaker 1: away my time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing that gets me, is like those
Speaker 3: turns are just I hate them.
Speaker 2: I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And did anybody want it unbanned?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Nope. Everybody said at first, with all you could maybe
Speaker 2: like it was we had like could maybe was as
Speaker 2: high as anybody got.
Speaker 1: Nobody's doing fair shit with this, and and even if
Speaker 1: you say I'm doing fair stuff with this. I don't
Speaker 1: have the combos or the end result for paradox engines.
Speaker 2: And why are you taking a goddamn thirty five minutes?
Speaker 1: Can still take a thirty five minute?
Speaker 2: That's even worse. That's even worse.
Speaker 1: At least kill me if you're gonna step on my
Speaker 1: nuts with high heels, like, at least kill me.
Speaker 2: After you have the decency to freaking end it all.
Speaker 2: After that. Yeah, we talked.
Speaker 1: We talked about prime Time, so keep a band. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: prime Time talked about that. Ready, I say, keep it Unbannon?
Speaker 2: Should we do?
Speaker 1: Should we do one more? How are we doing? For time?
Speaker 1: Their producer Gary, Okay.
Speaker 2: You know what, Let's do one more because we have
Speaker 2: to get to this one.
Speaker 1: I want to let's get Let's do one more, and
Speaker 1: then either next week or on the pre show, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do the rest of them. Because I actually enjoyed
Speaker 1: this conversation, and we've got to hope that people did too.
Speaker 3: And we got some good cards coming up too, like
Speaker 3: watch the pre show next week, I.
Speaker 1: Want to do on the regular show, let's do the
Speaker 1: whole show.
Speaker 3: You're gonna hear some fucking good ship. Let us know
Speaker 3: your thoughts too, will incorporate them into the show.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, this is the last one. It's reoccurring nightmare man,
Speaker 2: your boy Brando.
Speaker 3: When I was building, Uh, what the hell, necro Bloom.
Speaker 2: This is the this is the card you bought. I
Speaker 2: saw reoccurring Nightmare. Oh my god, this cord is so good.
Speaker 2: I'm definitely gonna buy one of This is gonna be
Speaker 2: so fucking awesome. And then I added it to my
Speaker 2: deck list and think, what's wrong with my list? Why
Speaker 2: is it read? Oh it's and it costs me like
Speaker 2: seventy dollars. You can see your credit you actually you
Speaker 2: did buy it? Yes, I did buy it.
Speaker 3: I'm such a loose I purchased one and just got
Speaker 3: wrecked by it. Reoccurring Nightmare is an enchantment for Black
Speaker 3: and two. You sacrifice a creature and return it to
Speaker 3: your hand to take a creature from your bin and
Speaker 3: put it into.
Speaker 1: Play only as a sorcery. As a sorcery because you know, yes, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: So you bounce the nightmare to your hand so you
Speaker 1: can then play it again, thereby making it a reoccurring
Speaker 1: reanimation spell. Yeah, okay, that's That's why it's reoccurring because
Speaker 1: you can play it again.
Speaker 2: It doesn't go to your graveyard. You sack a creature.
Speaker 1: You sack a creature, return it to its on his hand,
Speaker 1: return target creature from your graveyard to the now. Can
Speaker 1: I sacrifice the creature and target it?
Speaker 2: No? I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't do this.
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 3: Anyways, the point is its guard is wild, and you
Speaker 3: can see the recursion happening already. Like we'll use Coxslade
Speaker 3: extortionists as an example. You could use reoccurring nightmare to
Speaker 3: get the dock side extortionists to replay the reoccurring nightmare
Speaker 3: to sack the dock side astortionists to get something else back.
Speaker 2: Then you can use the manner that you made.
Speaker 3: With the dock side distortionists get back to dock sidesortions right,
Speaker 3: and you just loop.
Speaker 2: Them and loop them and loop them and loop them.
Speaker 2: And there's so many ways to do that.
Speaker 1: Plus ah, yes, you can sacrifice the creature and then
Speaker 1: immediately return the same creature to the battlefield route using
Speaker 1: reoccurring nightmare.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: So with dock side extortionist, you know the one that
Speaker 1: you go man a positive on too, I don't know,
Speaker 1: cast reoccurring nightmare again, yes, or if you had a
Speaker 1: haste enabler and something like a mana doork that taps
Speaker 1: for multiple man multiple mana like the the Guaya's Cradle
Speaker 1: or the Sarah Sanctum creatures that give you all that mana,
Speaker 1: or if you just had lots of mana and you
Speaker 1: put down a creature that buffed all your guys like
Speaker 1: etb'd and you could get it a second et B again,
Speaker 1: like if you could go Crater Hoof Behemoth, don't sack
Speaker 1: it's a reoccurring nightmare, immediately get it back and then
Speaker 1: play my reoccurring nightmare and like do it again, like
Speaker 1: you get two or three crater Hoof triggers, because.
Speaker 2: Why not this card slaps Yeah, reoccurring nightmare.
Speaker 3: Very good card and based on that, like you can
Speaker 3: see why it's banned because it's hard to interact with
Speaker 3: two because once it's in play, your opponents can't like
Speaker 3: will just kill the enchantment.
Speaker 2: Yeah you can do that, but I can activate it
Speaker 2: before you have the opportunity. Yes, because of how priority.
Speaker 1: Were that's yes, exactly when it resolves, I get priority
Speaker 1: again because it's my turn, and I can sacrifice a
Speaker 1: creature and return it to my hand. That's the cost,
Speaker 1: And you can't respond to me paying a cost because
Speaker 1: I get my turn to do something. It's called priority,
Speaker 1: and then it's in my hand and your disenchant hits nothing,
Speaker 1: and I can just fucking play it again and get
Speaker 1: my creator a third time.
Speaker 2: So it's degenerate, no non ban it.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna do it with Primetime like three times
Speaker 1: in a row because Primetime is gonna get me the
Speaker 1: manna to do it. I can almost go like Man
Speaker 1: of Neutral on it and get every land out of
Speaker 1: my deck.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to do it to get my necrotic
Speaker 2: who's back? I want?
Speaker 1: Primetime's got an eat b trigger, right, Yeah, So if
Speaker 1: I have a pan Harmonicon and a Primetime and a
Speaker 1: reoccurring nightmare, I get every land out of my deck. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I do that every single time.
Speaker 2: It will the tap n buy them all.
Speaker 1: Not with fucking sun dial in infinite They're not or
Speaker 1: whatever that card is.
Speaker 2: You play that No Amulet of Bigger, amult of Bigger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think aainst the turn Amulet of Vigger.
Speaker 2: Where else could we go from here?
Speaker 3: Ryan, we could go down the list of cards, and
Speaker 3: we're gonna do that again next week.
Speaker 2: We got some other stuff to talk to you. We
Speaker 2: gotta be going out of here.
Speaker 1: I was gonna one up you. I was gonna one
Speaker 1: up you. Where could we go from here? Diffusion Gaming
Speaker 1: Online dot Com use special promo code CCO Holiday. Pick
Speaker 1: up all these band cards before they spike when they
Speaker 1: get on band.
Speaker 3: I was really happy that I did not spend full
Speaker 3: price on my recurring nightmare.
Speaker 2: Thanks Fusion.
Speaker 1: Hey maybe the good unband you can play it?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I hope so probably not, but uh hey, if it
Speaker 1: was up to me, unbanned, let him out of jail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's got a cool picture on it.
Speaker 1: Jeff Roberstein did it. He's a nice guy.
Speaker 3: I've got eyeballs and stuff from got the flat top haircut.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: That's all I got.
Speaker 1: Big thanks to the patrons, Big, thanks to everybody. Big
Speaker 1: thanks to producer Gary, Big, thanks to editor Joe. I
Speaker 1: know we went a couple of minutes longer. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get out
Speaker 3: Of here and I'm gonna go with them, and we're
Speaker 3: gonna be back to finish off this list on the
Speaker 3: next exciting episode of Commander Cookout podcast hit our theme