Speaker 1: Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Speaker 1: Barbary Lane. Welcome to the season four finale of Full
Speaker 1: Circle the Podcast. Here's a look back at every episode
Speaker 1: from the past twelve months, brought to you by Decanta,
Speaker 1: jug wine and chairis that don't Creak?
Speaker 2: I am your host, Charles Tyson Junior.
Speaker 1: And I'm your host Martha Madrigal. Welcome to the Full
Speaker 1: Circle Table. Season four is coming to a close.
Speaker 2: Who to thunk it besides me and you?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I you know, I guess I assumed there
Speaker 1: would be multiple seasons back in the beginning. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just realized we are down to recording about a third
Speaker 1: of the time, so we've got to do something, try
Speaker 1: to do something about that. But because we listened back
Speaker 1: to the intros to each end of season and season one,
Speaker 1: I think we had about sixty four yeah shows, I've
Speaker 1: got about what twenty six this year, So we're we
Speaker 1: need to pick up the pace a.
Speaker 2: Little bit because your ass was scarce.
Speaker 1: That is really what it comes down to, both of
Speaker 1: us working full time and you know, multiple commitments. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and mental health as well. You know, sometimes we've got
Speaker 1: to be fortified prepared to delve into the news these days.
Speaker 2: I mean fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got a toddler running rampant, you know.
Speaker 2: A drunken toddler. I believe you referred to.
Speaker 1: Him, drunken toddler. Yeah, he the insanity of the entire
Speaker 1: Republican Party. They need to snatch him while we have
Speaker 1: a country. I don't know what they're waiting for, but
Speaker 1: I'm sure they have a plan, right, it just doesn't
Speaker 1: include any of us, and that's a problem.
Speaker 2: At this point. They should just trip him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I doubt it would take much. I'm saying he's
Speaker 1: shuffling as it is.
Speaker 2: He's bunch the rug up a little bit, just.
Speaker 1: A little Yeah. At any rate, it has been quite
Speaker 1: a year. We started this year saying we were going
Speaker 1: to try to focus more on queer excellence and queer
Speaker 1: joy a little bit less on the nonsense. I think
Speaker 1: we've tried to do that.
Speaker 2: We did speak to a lot of fabulous queer folks. Yes,
Speaker 2: we have.
Speaker 1: The nonsense is coming at such a rapid pace that
Speaker 1: it's hard to ignore exactly. Yeah, so it's still a
Speaker 1: part of the show. But we also said at the
Speaker 1: beginning of this season, you know, we're going to find
Speaker 1: out what it's like to put a fascist, corrupt, convicted
Speaker 1: criminal back into office. And it's been every bit as bad,
Speaker 1: and I would argue worse even than we predicted.
Speaker 2: Not sure how it's worse, but it is. Well.
Speaker 1: Bombing Iran is worse than you know. I had hoped
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't go quite that far, but we will
Speaker 1: apparently do almost anything to avoid the Epstein files.
Speaker 3: Chaw.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, huh chaw, and still blaming the trannies
Speaker 1: full on, especially in Kansas at the moment. Crazy stuff,
Speaker 1: crazy stuff. It's been a crazy year. This is not normal,
Speaker 1: this is not sane, this is not okay. But we're
Speaker 1: still here, yep.
Speaker 2: And we'll be delving more into those topics and more
Speaker 2: when we get to see five.
Speaker 1: So let's get to it. Here is a bit of
Speaker 1: every show from our fourth season. I hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 1: I hope you made it enjoyable. Huh, maybe we made
Speaker 1: it enjoyable. Well, there's that, and we will be back
Speaker 1: for season five.
Speaker 3: Who I am so.
Speaker 2: Real to have TJ kluon at the Full Circle table.
Speaker 3: Hi, TJ? How are you? I am good?
Speaker 2: Charles? Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4: I truly appreciate it, and the book follows his journey
Speaker 4: with these two other characters, Artemis and Alex. And what
Speaker 4: I love about the book for the most part is, yes,
Speaker 4: there's the big sci fi adventure that goes on on
Speaker 4: top of it. There's all there's a big cast of characters,
Speaker 4: but at its heart, it is about Nate and Art
Speaker 4: and Alex. They are a triangle. Without them, Without any
Speaker 4: one of the three, the picture wouldn't be complete. They
Speaker 4: are pieces from a puzzle, from different puzzles, but when
Speaker 4: they go together they still somehow fit and still form
Speaker 4: a picture. And you know when you're writing, when you
Speaker 4: include romance in books and stuff like that, that there's
Speaker 4: a tendency to focus on just the two main characters
Speaker 4: that are as part of the romance. But with this Art,
Speaker 4: she is ten years old and she is on every
Speaker 4: single page because she is just as important as Nate
Speaker 4: and Alex are, and her journey is what sends Nate
Speaker 4: off into a world where he realizes it's not what
Speaker 4: it seems and he has to go and figure out
Speaker 4: how to do what Nate or what Alex and Art
Speaker 4: have started out to do trying to get her home.
Speaker 2: That's yes, it's so It was so much fun to read,
Speaker 2: and the character of Artemis is very charming, it's so
Speaker 2: charging and the you know, I had suspected what made
Speaker 2: her special a bit beforehand, but I was almost wrong.
Speaker 2: And I love that, and it kind of gave me.
Speaker 2: The dynamic between the three kind of gave me louis
Speaker 2: La Statt and Claudia vibes, except not quite as creepy, right,
Speaker 2: not quite as screepy. We do not want to go
Speaker 2: to that direction.
Speaker 4: Yes, and I doubt that art art can be a
Speaker 4: little creepy sometimes, but she's not a child vampire queen.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: Wayne Scott is here to talk about his memoir The Maps.
Speaker 2: They gave us One Marriage Reimagined, and I am here
Speaker 2: to tell you that it is a wonderful read and
Speaker 2: I can't wait to talk to him about it. Wayne,
Speaker 2: How are you welcome to the Full Circle Table?
Speaker 6: Oh, thank you very much for inviting me. It's an honor.
Speaker 6: About the fifteen year mark, we had a bit of
Speaker 6: a crisis and I realized I had kind of lop
Speaker 6: off this huge important part of myself. It's almost like
Speaker 6: I had forgotten who I was in a way that
Speaker 6: I just kind of I couldn't tolerate anymore. The loneliness
Speaker 6: and the desperation and the desolation was too much. And
Speaker 6: I also I didn't know how to talk to her
Speaker 6: about it because again with the script that was a
Speaker 6: supplied to us about what a heteronormative marriage is supposed
Speaker 6: to look like, for me to initiate the conversation would
Speaker 6: be to initiate a conversation about divorce. That's that's how
Speaker 6: it felt like. We have a very binary way of
Speaker 6: thinking about all these different you know, whether it's male
Speaker 6: or female, or monogamy or gay or straight, or marriage
Speaker 6: or divorce or monogamy or not. Like it's they're very
Speaker 6: polarized ways. And and in fact, human humans, human relationships
Speaker 6: and humans are messier and more fluid than that. Right,
Speaker 6: And we need and we need to find containers. Maybe
Speaker 6: we need to reinvent, reimagine containers that are going to
Speaker 6: allow us more room to grow, to evolve, to heal sometimes.
Speaker 2: Right, And I think it also comes down to I
Speaker 2: think wiring because some people I was actually just having
Speaker 2: this conversation a couple of days ago, how like, I
Speaker 2: don't think I'm wired for something like an open relationship
Speaker 2: mm hmm, like I And I think part of that is,
Speaker 2: you know, in my twenties and thirties, I was such
Speaker 2: a hoe. So when I'm ready to settle down, I'm
Speaker 2: ready to like settle down.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And I'm seeing more and more with friends that they're
Speaker 2: exploring open relationships, and to me from the outside, it
Speaker 2: just looks so messy.
Speaker 6: Yep, No, you're right, it is messy.
Speaker 2: But if it works, I mean, you know, I try
Speaker 2: to like not sit in judgment because if it's working
Speaker 2: for you and no one's getting hurt, who am I
Speaker 2: to have anything to say? But yeah, I just don't
Speaker 2: think I'm wired that way. So if you are good,
Speaker 2: the god speed, you know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Well, And I actually appreciate you saying what you just said,
Speaker 6: because I think it's very important to come into any
Speaker 6: conversation like this without an agenda and without being prescriptive
Speaker 6: or dogmatic that one relationship form is superior to another.
Speaker 6: We all have to find our way, right And actually,
Speaker 6: you know, when you first said I am not wired
Speaker 6: for nominogamy, honestly, Charles, I would have said that. I
Speaker 6: would have said had a couple of years ago to
Speaker 6: you know, and the period of time that's depicted in
Speaker 6: the memoir is a period, it's a crucible, It's a
Speaker 6: period of intense struggle with this couple trying this marital experiment.
Speaker 6: Can we transition into a non monogamous form from what
Speaker 6: we had? And we didn't know it was going to work?
Speaker 3: We really did today.
Speaker 2: I am delighted to be sitting with our guest, Tony
Speaker 2: Keith Junior.
Speaker 3: Tony is a wonderful.
Speaker 2: Poet, spoken word artist, hip hop educational leader from Washington.
Speaker 7: D C.
Speaker 2: So you know we're going to have an interesting conversation today.
Speaker 2: We're going to be talking about Tony's collection of poems
Speaker 2: called Knucklehead, and I would really love to get into this.
Speaker 2: Tony Keith Junior, Welcome to the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you so much. Y'all's glad
Speaker 3: to be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love I love your use of language. And
Speaker 2: you know, I felt like this was coming from someone
Speaker 2: I knew, you know, because you know, hopefully when we
Speaker 2: are young, coming up, gay people, gay black people, hopefully
Speaker 2: we have a few figures in our life that are
Speaker 2: there to like help bring us up and show us
Speaker 2: the way. And your voice called to that.
Speaker 8: Oh, I really appreciate that, because Charles, something that I
Speaker 8: think so much about is if only I had a
Speaker 8: book like this when I was a.
Speaker 2: Kid, Oh my god, how seen?
Speaker 8: You know, I would have like felt and although I
Speaker 8: was reading this is what's interesting is, you know, I
Speaker 8: was reading Langs and Hughes as a kid, but nobody
Speaker 8: was talking to me about Lens and Hughes and his
Speaker 8: sexuality or his masculine like I was. No One was
Speaker 8: saying to me that, Tony, you're reading the works of
Speaker 8: queer writers gay like I didn't know then, right, And
Speaker 8: then of course, you know, I grew up in the
Speaker 8: era where I was reading, at least in college literary
Speaker 8: works by Elan Harris, you know, and so right, so
Speaker 8: I remember like literature me through. Okay, So I'm thinking
Speaker 8: about like I remember sort of discovering black gay court authors,
Speaker 8: I guess sort of in my twenties, but like, what
Speaker 8: about my like teens in middle school years?
Speaker 3: Where were they?
Speaker 8: And all I keep thinking about is like right now,
Speaker 8: in this moment, I'm like, I really want these young
Speaker 8: black boys, whether they're queer, gay or not, are questioning
Speaker 8: or whoever, to like to know that they exist like
Speaker 8: right now, like, here's a book for young adults, Like
Speaker 8: here's something written for you, specifically for you. Yeah, I really, yeah,
Speaker 8: I really wanted that. I was like, this is the
Speaker 8: book that I needed. The poems that would have been like, oh,
Speaker 8: this makes sense.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by my return to
Speaker 1: the mic as a married woman and wine straight from
Speaker 1: the drug. We had the best flower girl ever.
Speaker 2: Facts.
Speaker 1: We had a formidable trans woman who wore a beautiful
Speaker 1: green dress and fairy wings and distributed petals yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: gaily forward all the way up to the front where
Speaker 1: she dumped the rest of them on your head and
Speaker 1: then sat down.
Speaker 2: It was fabulous. Yeah, they were silk and the fairy
Speaker 2: wings were definitely my idea because I was like, well,
Speaker 2: if she's going to be the flower girl, it just
Speaker 2: makes sense to me for some reason that she needs
Speaker 2: to be wearing.
Speaker 1: Fairy in black combat booths. And she was totally just
Speaker 1: representing queer joy indeed, and you know.
Speaker 2: And even if that weren't her like actual position, she
Speaker 2: would have anyway by being.
Speaker 1: She's just right. But it was like, what did Tyr
Speaker 1: and Brian say? This was not only the most fun
Speaker 1: wedding I've ever been to. It's the funniest. It's like, well, good,
Speaker 1: we are us after all. Yeah, it was supposed to
Speaker 1: not be somber. Dear god, it's almost thirteen years, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean lighthearted was perfectly good.
Speaker 2: Do you feel different?
Speaker 1: I do. I didn't think I would. I really didn't
Speaker 1: think I would.
Speaker 2: How do you feel different?
Speaker 1: It feels good that we're married. I mean it does
Speaker 1: feel good. You've been different I have. Yeah, You've been
Speaker 1: so sweet and attentive, and it's like, you know, you
Speaker 1: finally don't think I'm fucking around with you and like
Speaker 1: gonna throw you out tomorrow or something like. That's my
Speaker 1: That's what I'm surmising.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not incorrect.
Speaker 1: It's okay, it's finally real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a lightness about me now, like you know,
Speaker 2: there's no more doubts. There's no more doubts or questions,
Speaker 2: like we end this together and I didn't really not
Speaker 2: believe it, but you But.
Speaker 1: That's a fair assessment given me. I mean, it is
Speaker 1: like it's fair to say h didn't always feel solid.
Speaker 2: But I'm happy and I am too, and you know,
Speaker 2: just I'm your husband.
Speaker 1: Every signature on our marriage license is uh belongs to
Speaker 1: a person of trans experience because we got married the
Speaker 1: day before transdave visibility and it just as I thought
Speaker 1: of it, I was like, oh, that's what has to
Speaker 1: happen right here, because efficient it was jo At Miller,
Speaker 1: who is the first trans woman elected to partisan office
Speaker 1: in the state of New Jersey. That's right, the Woodburry
Speaker 1: City council person. And she officiated and she did a
Speaker 1: wonderful job. That kid is going places.
Speaker 2: Indeed, I love it.
Speaker 1: And again like so the witnesses had to be turned
Speaker 1: to right.
Speaker 2: Like she was one of a very short list of
Speaker 2: people that we were thinking of for that, but she
Speaker 2: was the one.
Speaker 1: Well, Kathy wouldn't do it. I said, you gotta marry us,
Speaker 1: and she went, I don't want. I don't want that,
Speaker 1: do right, But she walked me up the aisle.
Speaker 2: She was the one who I like pictured in my mind.
Speaker 2: Mm hm oh yeah. I could say, like everyone on
Speaker 2: the list would have done a fabulous job, but joe
Speaker 2: was the one who I saw. Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Joey would have been wonderful too, But like Joey and
Speaker 1: I do do the dinner together. Joey and I have
Speaker 1: you know, known each other longer, and I mean it's
Speaker 1: fair to say we're closer. And I wanted her to
Speaker 1: be able to be a guest, right, That's what I wanted.
Speaker 1: But she did sign the marriage license, right, And I.
Speaker 2: Love that actually, And it didn't even occur to me
Speaker 2: until after the fact, what you did with that? And
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, oh, I see you.
Speaker 1: And that was the thing. I mean, we had a
Speaker 1: lot of trans folk there, We had a lot of
Speaker 1: queer folks there. We had certainly a lot of people
Speaker 1: of color there. And everyone was fine. Everybody was good.
Speaker 1: I mean, this staff was wonderful, and there were some
Speaker 1: streets in there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean they can't help, but they were born that
Speaker 1: way exactly. This episode is brought to you by Decanta
Speaker 1: jug Wine and a brand new bed excuse me sleep system.
Speaker 2: So many things have happened since the last time we recorded,
Speaker 2: up to and including Pope Francis Van sent kicked. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think they're related. I think he went this motherfucker
Speaker 1: and just decided life was no longer worth living.
Speaker 2: I saw a meme that said I have to go
Speaker 2: tell tell on you to Jesus myself.
Speaker 1: Personally, Yeah, I'm not sure they know what's going on
Speaker 1: down here, but they need to.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Pope Francis was eighty eight when he died, and
Speaker 2: he had just given the Easter.
Speaker 1: Man, yeah the day right right, just.
Speaker 2: Which leads me to believe that he was hanging on
Speaker 2: for that.
Speaker 1: I think I think he was hanging on for Easter,
Speaker 1: not JD. But I think JD just went okay, I'm
Speaker 1: done right, you know, that would be reason exactly know
Speaker 1: what else happens, because and then there's.
Speaker 2: Like people saying how the Pope was murdered or something
Speaker 2: like shut up, oh please.
Speaker 1: If he was going to be murdered, they'd have done
Speaker 1: that early on, because he was saying, who am I
Speaker 1: to judge? He was saying all kinds of shit that
Speaker 1: pissed all of them off at the tea dance that
Speaker 1: is the Vatican. They did not like that or that smoke.
Speaker 1: And you know, if somebody was gonna kill him, yeah,
Speaker 1: they'd have done it in the beginning, not now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The second he said faggots ain't so bad.
Speaker 1: Right right, which you know all the fagots and that
Speaker 1: they went, well, we're not, but yeah, we have to
Speaker 1: keep up this d.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean they're not they as their dresses matched
Speaker 9: the drapes Jesus Christ, Yeah in Prada pumps.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, as popes go. Right, pretty good one,
Speaker 1: I guess, I mean, based on what we've had and
Speaker 1: his predecessor.
Speaker 2: For Christ Sich, Dear God, did more demonstrable good than
Speaker 2: harm that this one.
Speaker 1: This yeah, not the not Ratzenberger, Oh God his name was.
Speaker 2: He looked like a red he looked like evil and
Speaker 2: was Yeah, he scared me.
Speaker 1: So this one was better and hum and I believe
Speaker 1: lived his faith to the best of his ability. And
Speaker 1: I think had he not had all the other queens
Speaker 1: go and not so fast, you know, we would have
Speaker 1: heard more of that, more of the who am I
Speaker 1: to judge, more of the message I think he was
Speaker 1: trying to say and shared before he was made pope, right,
Speaker 1: so you know, as they go, I don't get. But
Speaker 1: I was raised a Catholic, no secret, you know, and
Speaker 1: they abandoned me. It wasn't the other way around.
Speaker 2: Word.
Speaker 1: I just found out there was no place for authenticity
Speaker 1: an honesty within that religion for me. They weren't making
Speaker 1: room for me. And that the begrudging room that they've
Speaker 1: made of late is you know, as long as you
Speaker 1: stay celibate, I guess you get to exist. And I
Speaker 1: felt like saying, Queen you first that this episode is
Speaker 1: brought to you by Decanta Jugline and a desperate need
Speaker 1: to go grocery shopping as not away plantation burns. I
Speaker 1: saw this picture. I didn't know what it was about.
Speaker 1: The ancestors and social media rejoice chald.
Speaker 2: The memes, especially from people that were like from the area,
Speaker 2: Like my favorite was it's burning in the background. You
Speaker 2: see a black woman in the foreground, just dumping water
Speaker 2: onto the ground.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, this monument to southern grandeur, built
Speaker 1: on the backs of the enslaved a black people, has
Speaker 1: been destroyed by a fire that raged for nearly forty hours.
Speaker 1: I guess if you don't add water.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 1: It began late May fifteenth. The inferno gutted the one
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty year old estate turned resort good God,
Speaker 1: once the largest Antebellum mansion remaining in the South.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they turned it into a motherfucking resort. Uh.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: I hope every single white person that ever vacation there
Speaker 2: has a partnering like black ghost following them home and
Speaker 2: like stealing.
Speaker 3: Their mayo and.
Speaker 2: Wow taking away the startup app for their tesla or
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck?
Speaker 1: Wow, damn.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It started on the fourteenth when staff noticed smoke in
Speaker 1: the south wing, and the fire quickly spread through the
Speaker 1: sixty four room fifty three thousand square foot property, including
Speaker 1: a three story of rotunda. It's been on the Historic
Speaker 1: Registration since nineteen eighty. Despite efforts from multiple fire departments,
Speaker 1: the Yorkshire was lost. Many I'm not even gonna talk
Speaker 1: about the fire department. Many see poetic justice in the
Speaker 1: ashes of a plantation that never meaningfully confronted its legacy
Speaker 1: of slavery. Right, it became a fucking resort, right, not
Speaker 1: a museum, No, a resort of that sort.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was built in eighteen fifty nine by sugar magnet
Speaker 1: John Hampton Randolph, powered by the forced labor of more
Speaker 1: than one hundred fifty enslaved people, a fact that is
Speaker 1: often glossed over in the tourism.
Speaker 2: For sures, I bet it is.
Speaker 1: I imagine that for many it feels less like a
Speaker 1: tragedy and more like a reason to celebrate. One social
Speaker 1: media user pointed out the lack of acknowledgment of the
Speaker 1: property's racist past as a reason for indifference, not a
Speaker 1: way as burning.
Speaker 2: I have not a care yep.
Speaker 1: Rebranding a plantation as a resort is wild and diabolical.
Speaker 1: They don't even acknowledge the history of plantation. On their website,
Speaker 1: they refer to it as a southern mansion. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: Black Enterprise is a website that is impossible to read from.
Speaker 1: But I think we caught the gist.
Speaker 2: Well, I was going by the I was going through
Speaker 2: Google because I sought this story out to include in
Speaker 2: the notes today, and I was going by the headlines.
Speaker 2: Who I was going to pick because there was like
Speaker 2: Fox News was like it was a devastating fire. Yeah whatever.
Speaker 2: Next the building was lost, all right?
Speaker 1: Next anyway, it's gone exactly, it burned, baby, it burns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the mother wants to rebuild.
Speaker 1: Who's going to do that at today's prices and actually
Speaker 1: having to pay labor?
Speaker 2: Let's see that part.
Speaker 1: How many the one story, three bedroom structure? How does
Speaker 1: that work?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I didn't even get that farm work.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Decanted jug Wine,
Speaker 1: the start of Pride Month and a week chock full
Speaker 1: of divas. So anybody who says, you know Pride is dead.
Speaker 1: They had a waiting list of about one hundred vendors,
Speaker 1: so you know, there was no way at the late
Speaker 1: date that we contacted them to get a table, but
Speaker 1: you know, they graciously gave me the opportunity to write,
Speaker 1: so I did. Yeah, it's just going to be a
Speaker 1: busy month. I'm speaking at Pittman Pride on the fourteenth,
Speaker 1: so that I'm excited about that because that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's hometown right there. Yeah, yeah, full full circle, that's
Speaker 1: my full That's another full circle moment. Many I love it.
Speaker 1: I'm excited. And Woodbury, New Jersey is having their very
Speaker 1: first Pride on the twenty ninth. Our friend Joe Miller
Speaker 1: is helping to organize that and I believe the MC
Speaker 1: so there's probably a chance my big mouth will be
Speaker 1: there as well. So so much Pride, so much fud.
Speaker 1: Yeah by July Firs, if I never see another rainbow exactly.
Speaker 2: We started our Pride month by raising a new, brand
Speaker 2: new Pride flag.
Speaker 1: We did it was tattered, our Progress Pride flag, which
Speaker 1: is up year round, was tattered.
Speaker 2: And it was cute as a little metaphor of the
Speaker 2: current state of things for a while, but then just
Speaker 2: started to look lower.
Speaker 1: I deserve a brand new flag, right, And then I
Speaker 1: noticed that the American flag, the flags above it is
Speaker 1: a little tattered. But that seems an apt metaphor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's still we march into Yeah, still working as
Speaker 2: a metaphor. You can't know shit. Yeah, we got a
Speaker 2: lot of that today. Need to be happy it's flying
Speaker 2: right side up? Mm hm.
Speaker 1: No kidding, that's the distress, correct right. Yeah, good thing
Speaker 1: you didn't mention that while I was working the pole,
Speaker 1: because I think I might have turned it upside.
Speaker 3: Do well, I was working.
Speaker 2: I love the pole, the flag pole. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 2: you meant.
Speaker 1: That is what I mean.
Speaker 2: I know that's what you meant.
Speaker 1: What are we talking about this morning? We were talking
Speaker 1: about silly women. And I forget what you said. I
Speaker 1: forget why I sat up. I said, there are women
Speaker 1: who don't get off the poll until I fall off.
Speaker 1: I meant that ship.
Speaker 2: Almost fell out of bed. Well, all right, and our
Speaker 2: bed's higher now, so it is that would have hurt.
Speaker 2: It's more of a drop. We have a wonderful artist, author.
Speaker 7: Performer, and all around fierce diva.
Speaker 2: She has written a wonderful book called The Queen Bees
Speaker 2: of Tybee County. Kyle Casey Chu, Welcome to the Full
Speaker 2: Circle Table.
Speaker 12: Thank you so much for that illustrious opening. It is
Speaker 12: a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2: You are one of the founding queens your your what
Speaker 2: am I trying to say? Your artistic counter part, Panda Doulce,
Speaker 2: you are one of the founding queens of Drag Story Time. Right,
Speaker 2: It's true, which is thank you for your service.
Speaker 1: Thank you chaull.
Speaker 2: So, because of your experience dealing with the Proud Boys
Speaker 2: and and Drag Story Time, you definitely have first person
Speaker 2: experience with triumphing over adversity, which is, you know, an
Speaker 2: integral part of being a queer person in America, especially
Speaker 2: right now, and you're like an authority on in that area.
Speaker 2: I would say, thank you.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think I think a lot of any resilience
Speaker 12: that I have I owe to my community. We're just
Speaker 12: such a queer answer, right, But it's real for a reason,
Speaker 12: Like after it happens, I was just inundated with press
Speaker 12: and journalists asking me over and over to to just
Speaker 12: relive it in a really excruciating way, and like asking
Speaker 12: for all these details, and like it felt like it
Speaker 12: felt like I was being quartered into being triggered so
Speaker 12: that they could have that sound by it for what
Speaker 12: they wanted the story to be right, as well as
Speaker 12: just you know, like trauma dumps and love letters and
Speaker 12: death threats and transphobic hate and and so in the aftermath,
Speaker 12: I couldn't really make any decisions in my life, Like
Speaker 12: my executive functioning was shot. I couldn't get out of bed.
Speaker 12: I couldn't even order food. I was just so overwhelmed.
Speaker 12: And and my friend stepped up in a really big way,
Speaker 12: and Queer dreads people from across the world, Like I
Speaker 12: got letters from like Norway and Sweta, and people sending
Speaker 12: me like tea and Crystal and like you know, organizing
Speaker 12: meal trains and coming to cook like larm for me,
Speaker 12: like ty food, and just volunteering to come watch movies
Speaker 12: with me. And it kind of clarified what pride meant
Speaker 12: for me, that it's less about the ostentatious floats and
Speaker 12: it's more about this network.
Speaker 2: Of people who we've cultivated together.
Speaker 12: And I thought that was a really beautiful thing and
Speaker 12: it gave me a lot of help in the future.
Speaker 1: James Baldwin's groundbreaking novel Giovanni's Room has been extended through
Speaker 1: June twenty ninth. It's playing on stage at the Quintessen
Speaker 1: Theater at the Sedgewick and today we're going to talk
Speaker 1: to Midgney and Jada von Regersberg from the cast. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 13: Thank you for loving us. There's a lot of letters
Speaker 13: throughout the show, and the very last image of the show,
Speaker 13: which we had to work on as a special for
Speaker 13: a really long time, is that he gets a final
Speaker 13: letter from me from Jacques that he rips up and
Speaker 13: he throws it away, but there's end and the and
Speaker 13: the piece of letter blowback at him, which is the
Speaker 13: sort of beautiful idea that you you can try to
Speaker 13: destroy the evident, you can try to destroy what's happened,
Speaker 13: and you can try to say I didn't I didn't
Speaker 13: mess up anyone's life, I didn't lie to anyone. But
Speaker 13: truth is going to blow back to you.
Speaker 2: Uh always does.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 13: But I think part of what heartbreaking and and strange
Speaker 13: about what happens to David is that he he ends
Speaker 13: up lying a lot, and you start seeing through him
Speaker 13: more and more and more, and and just you start
Speaker 13: to see that those lies are destructive and his lying
Speaker 13: to other people, on him, lying all of that, treating up.
Speaker 2: And sadly, that's a story that we've seen play out
Speaker 2: in real life way too many times. People hold on
Speaker 2: to the line and eat you up inside and it
Speaker 2: starts to extend out from inside of yourself and affects
Speaker 2: everything around you and your whole life. Authenticity is the
Speaker 2: only healthy choice, but unfortunately it's not the available choice
Speaker 2: for some people.
Speaker 13: And for some people's it was not encouraged in their families,
Speaker 13: how they were raised. So that's it's a journey to
Speaker 13: find how to speak authentically.
Speaker 2: Which I always think about when people say, you know,
Speaker 2: hearkening back to the good old days, talking about this
Speaker 2: time period. We've got to think about, like not even
Speaker 2: just queer people, but like how everyone must have been
Speaker 2: walking around with so much repression all the time, just
Speaker 2: like even like you're your cis had white folks, like
Speaker 2: because there's so many constraints about what is a man,
Speaker 2: what is a woman? And no one is those things
Speaker 2: like naturally, really I don't believe. So it's like that's
Speaker 2: what we want. We want to go back to this
Speaker 2: place of repression and inauthenticity and lying to ourselves.
Speaker 1: Great but the people who want us to go back
Speaker 1: are the ones that always worked out for mostly well,
Speaker 1: I mean they're having the good old y yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 13: It's easy to be nostalgic because because it's it's sort
Speaker 13: of imaginary. It's sort of like when I think back
Speaker 13: with time that is gone. I think it was a
Speaker 13: great time, but there's no proof that it was a
Speaker 13: great time. And as saying time and you're particular right world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I was really cute in the eighties,
Speaker 1: but we were scared to death to have sex. We
Speaker 1: didn't know what's fun, you know, I mean, like we
Speaker 1: had great music.
Speaker 13: But yeah, you can't desire a thing that you have.
Speaker 12: You can only desire the thing that you either have
Speaker 12: yet to achieve or the thing that you've lost.
Speaker 1: Fair yeah, fair, quick and dirty.
Speaker 2: Prior episode, I know, I'm all here, Hey.
Speaker 7: Well I'm trans Did I mention that I am not
Speaker 7: a problem to be solved or something to be eliminated.
Speaker 7: I like to believe that I add some value in
Speaker 7: this world. Time will tell my story, just as it
Speaker 7: will for those who would see me go on here
Speaker 7: and now, at this point in our history, my existence
Speaker 7: is being politicized as a distraction. The rhetorics around me
Speaker 7: and mine is meant to confuse and divide. It's meant
Speaker 7: to instill fear, because when we are afraid, we do
Speaker 7: not make good decisions, especially about people we've seldom or
Speaker 7: never bothered to call human in the first place.
Speaker 3: When we are.
Speaker 7: Fearful and distracted, it is impossible to summon our best selves.
Speaker 7: When fear takes hold, Kindness is an act of resistance.
Speaker 7: Anyone who says they come from a place where there
Speaker 7: are no trans people comes from a place where we
Speaker 7: are oppressed and fear for our lives. The fact that
Speaker 7: safety might require us to hide is no measure of
Speaker 7: our existence. Our stories matter, and I, for one, will
Speaker 7: hide from no one, not anymore.
Speaker 1: Not anymore.
Speaker 7: When the rhetoric gets so far out of hand, humans
Speaker 7: hide in fear for their lives. Solidarity is an act
Speaker 7: of resistance. Here in twenty twenty five executive orders prohibit
Speaker 7: federal recognition of trans people in any aspect of civic life.
Speaker 7: I find that childish, churlish, and chilling. The history somewhat
Speaker 7: erase tells us you cannot order people from existence.
Speaker 1: You know, resistance doesn't.
Speaker 14: Always carry a Bullhorn in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7: Existing openly as a transgender expansive person is an act
Speaker 7: of resistance. Supporting us with your entire voice is.
Speaker 14: An act of resistance.
Speaker 7: I'd like to say, We're all still here, in every color, shape, size, origin,
Speaker 7: and all the beautiful intersections black brown, butcher them, all
Speaker 7: the glorious and valid expressions in between, speaking every language
Speaker 7: and raised in every culture. I'd like to say, all
Speaker 7: of the people my government is telling you to fear
Speaker 7: are still here, but some have already been gathered up.
Speaker 7: So only some of the people my government is telling
Speaker 7: you to fear are still right here. Who I assure
Speaker 7: you we are going to church this afternoon.
Speaker 1: Blame me, grant. Welcome to the Full Circle table.
Speaker 15: Thank you for having me. It's a treat to be here.
Speaker 2: Basically, how can you have a concrete answer to an
Speaker 2: abstract question? You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, How can you talk with certainty and in
Speaker 15: facts and truth about something that you believe?
Speaker 2: Right? Thank you?
Speaker 15: Belief by default is not true. Belief is an untrue
Speaker 15: thing because it can't be, It can't possibly be. Otherwise
Speaker 15: we would use the word truth. And that's why we
Speaker 15: have to use the word believe, because that's something we hope,
Speaker 15: we hope it's true. I'm gonna face my faith in
Speaker 15: that thing, trust in that thing, but I can't know
Speaker 15: it and I can't prove it, And so why am
Speaker 15: I trying to do those things? Why am I wasting
Speaker 15: my one wild, precious life, thank you, Mary Oliver, to
Speaker 15: try to prove something that I can't like it. It's
Speaker 15: just it's a whole different mindset when you finally do
Speaker 15: come to that place where you're like, oh, I don't know,
Speaker 15: and guess what, I don't need to. I'm gonna live
Speaker 15: a gorgeous, beautiful, full life without knowing, and that is
Speaker 15: going to be fine. And the fear that gets instilled
Speaker 15: in so many of us in these really cult like
Speaker 15: religious spaces, the high demand religious stuff, is that there
Speaker 15: are horrible consequences right hell obviously being the biggest one,
Speaker 15: but even more immediate consequences of losing your community, getting
Speaker 15: kicked out, excommunicated, whatever your your particular brand calls it.
Speaker 15: You know, like, those are scary consequences when you're told
Speaker 15: and taught and indoctrinated and groomed. Thank you, leeve, thank
Speaker 15: you that there's that there is only one way that
Speaker 15: there is only uh, you know, the the binary, and
Speaker 15: that you have to choose the good over the evil
Speaker 15: and all that. So it's I hear you on that
Speaker 15: it takes a long time to unravel and extract yourself
Speaker 15: from the clutches of that kind of that that that
Speaker 15: that grip of the requirements of certainty.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Decanta jug One,
Speaker 1: the fan running in the background to keeping up Live
Speaker 1: and my last queer Nerve.
Speaker 2: This is from a few weeks ago, but it's still
Speaker 2: so juicy that it's worth talking. It really was.
Speaker 1: The pictures were so sad.
Speaker 2: The hetero Awesome fest and Idaho. First of all, if
Speaker 2: awesome is in the name of your event, it ain't.
Speaker 1: I know, I know. It's like when you call yourself
Speaker 1: a DV.
Speaker 3: A girl exactly girl, you is not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the festival go sit down. It was. It was
Speaker 2: barely hetero.
Speaker 1: It was awesome, nothing awesome about it, And I wouldn't
Speaker 1: call it a fest.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 1: Tens of people showed.
Speaker 2: Up, threes of sevens of people.
Speaker 1: Fighting, low attendance and a racism scandal. How exciting.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because some fucking podcast was recording live and
Speaker 2: they were saying, how you know the town was so
Speaker 2: nice and clean and quiet, and then he leaned to
Speaker 2: the mic and said, there's no black people here.
Speaker 1: Who said that the host of the podcast? Oh wow,
Speaker 1: yeah wow. So was one of those podcasts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the ones that give everyone else like because there's.
Speaker 1: That whole name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where we're going, Yeah, there's that whole thing now,
Speaker 2: like how podcasts are bad and not helpful. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: y'all are just seeing these white yahoos with microphones screaming
Speaker 2: lies and hateful rhetoric, and those are the ones getting attention.
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan, I'm looking at you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But then you have folks likes but never the
Speaker 1: right question exactly.
Speaker 2: You have folks like us who actually give a shit
Speaker 2: about what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: You know, what was that meme that said he never
Speaker 1: asked questions about the patriarchy or capitalism exactly where any
Speaker 1: of the things he should be asking questions about. Right,
Speaker 1: It's almost like he ain't about.
Speaker 2: Shit, right, That's that double edged sword. Anyone can have
Speaker 2: a podcast, however that means, that means anyone anyway.
Speaker 1: I know, but they flocked to them, I know. He
Speaker 1: placates all of their insecurities. He makes them feel better
Speaker 1: about themselves because women have had, like most of us,
Speaker 1: are done trying to make you feel better about that
Speaker 1: little dick. So you need Joe Rogan to help you
Speaker 1: explain your life to you and say it's our fault.
Speaker 2: I was in an uber and the white driver was like,
Speaker 2: is it okay if I'm listening to a podcast? And
Speaker 2: I was like, sure, I don't care, that's cool. He's like,
Speaker 2: it's Joe Rogan. I immediately gave him one star.
Speaker 1: Dagan, Yeah, nope, not that one. And baby, if you
Speaker 1: don't know better, you know I ain't here to cheach.
Speaker 2: I was already listening to whatever I was going to
Speaker 2: listen to anyway, Just why didn't But once he said
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan, nope, one star, fuck you. And I believe
Speaker 2: my my justification for my one star was the lack
Speaker 2: of cleanliness in the vehicle, because I counted that.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well that did filthy it up right anyway.
Speaker 2: So the fucking hetero awesome Fest held in Boise Idoh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people actually go to Pride events exactly. They managed
Speaker 1: to draw attention for all the wrong reasons. I say,
Speaker 1: just four dozen people.
Speaker 2: Attended two's of fives of people.
Speaker 1: About thirty to fifty I guess, depending on whether AI
Speaker 1: was involved in your photograph or not attended Hetero Awesome
Speaker 1: Fest across the two days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and most of those were queer people looking to
Speaker 2: see what was.
Speaker 1: Up right, Like, what the fuck is you doing?
Speaker 2: I think there were more queer people at the Hetero
Speaker 2: Awesome Fest than hetero people.
Speaker 1: Is roughly the size of the self proclaimed world's smallest
Speaker 1: Pride parade in twenty twenty three, held in a neighborhood
Speaker 1: of around forty people. Similar straight pride events have a
Speaker 1: long history of attracting laughably low turnout. UH one event
Speaker 1: in California in twenty nineteen turned out just twenty attendees
Speaker 1: in comparison to the two hundred pro LGBTQ plus protesters,
Speaker 1: and an event the same year in Texas organized by
Speaker 1: the people who hosted Boston's failed straight Pride parade attracted
Speaker 1: just three people, one of whom later said she did
Speaker 1: not know what the event was whatever, and rebuked it
Speaker 1: a street she could have just been walking by and
Speaker 1: stopped to look.
Speaker 2: A straight pride parade. Isn't that just traffic? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, it is. It's traffic on any given day. The
Speaker 1: Sal Paulo Gay Pride in Brazil is considered the largest
Speaker 1: pride celebration in the world, attracting about three two five
Speaker 1: a million attendees every year.
Speaker 3: That's a lot of fags.
Speaker 1: The largest celebrations in North America are Toronto Pride and
Speaker 1: New York City Pride, which each attract millions annually.
Speaker 2: Yeah. New York Pride is its own animal, Joe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they tried it once again. They got a wall
Speaker 1: and they limited the women who are willing to fuck them.
Speaker 1: All in all, it worked out well.
Speaker 2: Now. The best though, is the musician who performed Okay,
Speaker 2: that's this thing.
Speaker 16: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Daniel Hamrick was the was one of the musicians and
Speaker 2: he mocked. Yeah. He got up on the stage and
Speaker 2: he like took off his overshirt and underneath he had
Speaker 2: a jacket with a rainbow and pink triangle patches on
Speaker 2: it and a crop top that read Key Canyon County Queer.
Speaker 2: And then he played a song titled Boy about a
Speaker 2: young trans boy. I saw the video and the song
Speaker 2: was fun and it was like you could it like
Speaker 2: took people a while to realize what he was saying
Speaker 2: because nobody's paying attention.
Speaker 1: Right, and well all forty eight of them were talking
Speaker 1: amongst themselves.
Speaker 2: Right, and they cut his mic and then like made
Speaker 2: him get off stage.
Speaker 1: Mm hm no, what that's fun?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a healthy t he behind that shit
Speaker 2: ones of twos of people.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Decanted jug Wine
Speaker 1: and a list that doesn't exist. But if it did exist,
Speaker 1: the Democrats wrote it, and while it doesn't exist, Republicans
Speaker 1: unanimously voted not to share it. If it existed, which
Speaker 1: it does.
Speaker 2: Not, it makes us extra proud to have listeners in Norway. Hey, y'all.
Speaker 1: Yes, So I had worked with a client for several
Speaker 1: months before we started doing groups, yes, because we didn't
Speaker 1: have enough folks to do groups with. And you know,
Speaker 1: in those groups, you know, I told my story, you know,
Speaker 1: and talked about being trans right, But she and I
Speaker 1: had never had any conversation like that, because you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't your meane. I was working with har I
Speaker 1: was trying to help her get some stuff that came up,
Speaker 1: and she whispered to Nicki, or whispered but went to
Speaker 1: Niki later said more less trance, and NICKI said, I know,
Speaker 1: and she said, I had no idea. I thought she
Speaker 1: was Norwegian.
Speaker 2: Because you're tall and blind.
Speaker 1: Apparently yes, and so it's kind of become a little
Speaker 1: running joke.
Speaker 3: Martha is Norwegian.
Speaker 2: I am Norwegian.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because there was a there was a dude who
Speaker 1: is I guess new talking not not knowingly, but talking
Speaker 1: to one of my clients who are very masculine, male identified,
Speaker 1: and they were way down the hall and the guy
Speaker 1: looked at nodded at me and said, that's a dude.
Speaker 1: I guess My solo is quite tall. And my client
Speaker 1: went where and he nodded, and the client went, that
Speaker 1: is not a dude. That is Martha. She's Norwegian. So
Speaker 1: it's just it's a running Yeah.
Speaker 2: I told you every time comes up says something, you
Speaker 2: should just respond yeah, yeah, right right.
Speaker 1: Clearly, I do not deny the fact that I'm trance.
Speaker 1: It's just funny whenever you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I mean, it makes sense. Tall, blonde, yeah, I guess,
Speaker 2: striking figure there you.
Speaker 1: Go, cheek bones, cheek bones that you do like yogurt? Okay,
Speaker 1: is that a Norway thing? But not herring?
Speaker 11: So.
Speaker 2: Jano Diaz is a wonderful author and artist. And his autobiography,
Speaker 2: entitled Slumboy, has been called by the Guardian one of
Speaker 2: the most moving accounts of non fiction ever written, and
Speaker 2: I cannot help but agree. Wanah, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining us. How are you.
Speaker 14: I'm good. Thank you so much, Charles. That's some introduction.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank goodness for to thank goodness for art.
Speaker 2: So and I and I saw how in your teenage years,
Speaker 2: in your early adulthood, it felt like a lot of
Speaker 2: your relationships were like transactional, Like how how did all
Speaker 2: of that affect your adult relationships?
Speaker 3: If I may ask, I didn't.
Speaker 17: I doesn't have many adult relationships. I mean, we've we've
Speaker 17: all we've all kind of done stuff. I had a
Speaker 17: few I had a few relationships where I allowed people
Speaker 17: to walk over me and I got into stupid situations
Speaker 17: and stuff I think we all have when we're when
Speaker 17: we're younger. I've been so, honestly, I've been so sort
Speaker 17: of laser focused with creating art and photographs in film
Speaker 17: that it's kind of over it overtook all that for
Speaker 17: a long long time. And I've had a I mean,
Speaker 17: I've had a couple of relationships. The relationship I mean
Speaker 17: just now is probably the most like level one.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well I do love that for you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I imagine, you know. I mean we all go through
Speaker 2: that period of wanting to please others, but you had
Speaker 2: to go through that for a sense of like stability
Speaker 2: and survival, especially with your.
Speaker 3: Adoptive parents.
Speaker 2: Wanting to be the kind of person they wanted you
Speaker 2: to be, which meant not being who you were. And
Speaker 2: I felt like, you know, that was a constant struggle.
Speaker 14: It was, but I fought so hard against them.
Speaker 2: You think you were a difficult child.
Speaker 17: They would say that. They would say, my father to
Speaker 17: this day would say you were such an artful to us,
Speaker 17: and then in a joking way, right, Well, I just
Speaker 17: I couldn't help it. I had to express myself. I
Speaker 17: had to, you know. When I was at that age
Speaker 17: where I understood what was what, I didn't give a shit.
Speaker 14: I went out.
Speaker 18: In the village and wore high heels and making these
Speaker 18: big camp paintings and just being myself. You know, I
Speaker 18: wasn't going to conform to working in a scrap yard
Speaker 18: and living in a boxing gym, which is what my
Speaker 18: dad done. I hated it.
Speaker 14: It wasn't me, It wasn't my it's not my nature.
Speaker 2: You were so much bigger than the life that you.
Speaker 17: I just was. I just have creativity connected to my
Speaker 17: core and in a small village in Scotland, there's no
Speaker 17: reference at all for that. So one wonderful thing happened
Speaker 17: was satellite TV when that appeared back in the eighties
Speaker 17: and we suddenly were exposed to like fashion, TV and
Speaker 17: TV and all that visual stuff.
Speaker 14: I mean, I just drunk all in and went with it.
Speaker 17: So it's almost like an explosion waiting to happen, you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, favorite supermodel, go Naomi Campbell.
Speaker 3: That better have been the answer.
Speaker 17: Also my Pessa, Okay, she's sensational.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a Naomi fan myself.
Speaker 14: Stunning.
Speaker 2: Every now and again I whip out my name, Naomi
Speaker 2: Campbell walk just because.
Speaker 14: Hey, why not you have to exactly.
Speaker 2: Hey, y'all, So today it's just me. I have you
Speaker 2: all to myself.
Speaker 3: But that's okay because.
Speaker 2: It's my birthday. Finally, I've been hearing everyone talk about
Speaker 2: how the spin off series, the sequel series, the follow
Speaker 2: up series to Sex and the City, and just like
Speaker 2: that is ending. I never really cared, but someone accused
Speaker 2: me of being a bad queer for never having watched
Speaker 2: an episode. So I was like, fine, I'll watch the
Speaker 2: fucking show. See what all the hu ha and whoplas about.
Speaker 2: I couldn't make it through the first episode of season one.
Speaker 2: I made it exactly twenty minutes through, and it took
Speaker 2: me three tries to get that far. I am not
Speaker 2: exaggerating three tries. I don't know why I expected anything different, because,
Speaker 2: like I said about the first series, you know, after
Speaker 2: the first episode, I can see why y'all are single,
Speaker 2: because y'all are like hateful, ungrateful bitches. But and this
Speaker 2: go round, they're older and they're supposed to be dealing
Speaker 2: with that. But it's I never thought I would long
Speaker 2: for the New York that the first series took place in,
Speaker 2: where there were no black people, because now the comedy,
Speaker 2: or at least what I gleaned from the first episode,
Speaker 2: the comedy comes from, you know, I have to deal
Speaker 2: with with people that are different from me, and I'm
Speaker 2: just so white and it's so awkward. Isn't that hilarious?
Speaker 2: Cringe cringe cringe ha ha ha. I First of all,
Speaker 2: I hate cringe porn humor, and this is dumb, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you don't deal with people of color that often, but
Speaker 2: it's like it comes across as if this is the
Speaker 2: first time they've ever interacted with people of color. It's like,
Speaker 2: come on now. So I did my due diligence and
Speaker 2: I watched half of one episode and I can safely
Speaker 2: say that it's some bullshit, and I'm glad it's ending
Speaker 2: because between Miranda being an indvertently racist to her law
Speaker 2: professor and fucking and Carrie not being able to comprehend
Speaker 2: they them pronouns, oh, my goodness, child, fuck y'all, just
Speaker 2: fuck y'all and your white nonsense.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Hot Coffee on
Speaker 1: the last morning of a much needed vacation.
Speaker 2: Word so the Immortal Bard Snoop dogg ha ha ha,
Speaker 2: I'm kidding. Recently on some hotep ass podcast said basically
Speaker 2: that there shouldn't be LGBTQ plus representation in kids movies. Quote,
Speaker 2: they're going to ask questions, do we have to show that? Now?
Speaker 2: The film in question was light Year, which we've talked
Speaker 2: about on the show, which was the spin off film
Speaker 2: about buzz Lightyear and his partner voiced by Uzzo, A Duba,
Speaker 2: her character. In one scene where they're flashing through time,
Speaker 2: it shows her and her presuming the wife or female partner,
Speaker 2: and they have a two second kiss and shows that
Speaker 2: they have a baby together. Yes, And he's talking about
Speaker 2: how he was at the movie with his grandson and
Speaker 2: his kid was like, oh, there's two women. How can
Speaker 2: two women have a baby? And all he would say
Speaker 2: is just watch the movie and how why do we
Speaker 2: have to see that? Because it's kids movies and they're
Speaker 2: gonna ask questions and what am I supposed to do
Speaker 2: then fucking answer them?
Speaker 1: And he said he doesn't have the answer. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and true women can.
Speaker 2: Love each other and you know, right, And that just
Speaker 2: shows how little you actually think a about queer people
Speaker 2: and be about women that you're not fucking because if
Speaker 2: you had any kind of social conscience at all where
Speaker 2: related to the LGBTQ plus community, you would have already
Speaker 2: made answer for the kid.
Speaker 1: Sure, people who love each other sometimes raise children together
Speaker 1: exactly period, Like it's not hard, but truly not hard.
Speaker 2: You're a lazy bitch, and we want to talk about
Speaker 2: you know, he wants to get hung up on things
Speaker 2: that are appropriate for children, like I've seen. I was
Speaker 2: looking at some of the lyrics to his songs, and
Speaker 2: there was one particular song, just the one song I
Speaker 2: read about him running trains on women and never referred
Speaker 2: to any of the women in the song in any
Speaker 2: way other than bitch. He talked about being a pimp
Speaker 2: and selling this one girl's pussy fucking another dude's sister.
Speaker 2: And it's all in the same four minute, three minute span.
Speaker 2: But a two second kiss and a frame or two
Speaker 2: of two women and a baby is too much for
Speaker 2: children and causes questions.
Speaker 1: I wonder how does he explain his lyrics to his grandchildren.
Speaker 2: You know, hmm, like put my dick on your forehead
Speaker 2: so it stays on your mind, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that, mm hmm. I guess he's gotten a
Speaker 1: problem explaining.
Speaker 2: That he featured on a song where the chorus was
Speaker 2: bitches ain't shit but hosing tricks. They lick on the
Speaker 2: nuts and suck the dicks, so you know.
Speaker 1: But that's okay, Yeah, his grandchildren, Yeah, that's he can
Speaker 1: explain that, you see. Yeah, he just can't explain that,
Speaker 1: you know, two women might be in love and raising
Speaker 1: a topic.
Speaker 2: Well, love and women are not two words. That go
Speaker 2: together in his Vernacube problem. He has written a fabulous book,
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying it's fabulous just because.
Speaker 3: I'm in it.
Speaker 2: It is about black fandom, and it is called fandom
Speaker 2: for us by us, the pleasures and practices of black audiences.
Speaker 2: Alfred L. Martin is in the house. Hello, how are
Speaker 2: you so much?
Speaker 17: Thank you?
Speaker 19: I am well, thank you so much for having me
Speaker 19: on the show.
Speaker 2: There is that element of for queer folks. I know,
Speaker 2: the idea of chosen family plays it huge part in it,
Speaker 2: I'm sure, and then also the shadiness of it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, one of the best moments of
Speaker 2: my personal life this is when I'm still barretadd and
Speaker 2: someone asked me can I ask a stupid question? And
Speaker 2: I just, without missing it beat better than any I know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't. I'm good now. Yeah, That's
Speaker 2: that's the thing that that kept me. It's the cleverness
Speaker 2: of the writing and the it's just funny. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 19: I think one of the really interesting things about the
Speaker 19: show and black folks' engagement with it is that they're
Speaker 19: obviously like, as black folks, we know we're watching a
Speaker 19: bunch of white folks, but there was also there's also
Speaker 19: this and I hate to say it as work because
Speaker 19: it sounds like it's work, but it's not necessarily like
Speaker 19: but it's the work of us sort of trying to
Speaker 19: fit the Golden Girls into a pre existing pattern that
Speaker 19: already exists in our brain.
Speaker 2: So it is about the way.
Speaker 19: So one of the things that emerged was this kind
Speaker 19: of verbal sparring to sort of you know, say to
Speaker 19: someone you can I or to ask someone can I
Speaker 19: ask a stupid question and the response being better than
Speaker 19: anyone I know that for many black folks felt like
Speaker 19: they were kind of sort of playing a version of
Speaker 19: the Dozens. And so what was really fascinating for me
Speaker 19: was the ways that this very white show and in
Speaker 19: some ways, like we don't really even love the episodes
Speaker 19: where Negro show up because it's like, just leave us
Speaker 19: out of this, like and we like because we could
Speaker 19: just enjoy the white lady right right, right, But so
Speaker 19: like this show with these white ladies on it, like
Speaker 19: we can figure out how to read it blackly. H.
Speaker 19: So it's like it's like, don't worry about like you
Speaker 19: just do what you do. We'll take care of like
Speaker 19: making it make sense for us. And so that's one
Speaker 19: of the things that is really was really fascinating to
Speaker 19: me as I was doing these interviews is figuring out
Speaker 19: the ways black folks were making the show.
Speaker 2: They're like mean something for them, right.
Speaker 3: He is an.
Speaker 2: Author of a fabulous and thrilling new book called The
Speaker 2: Dead of Summer, and I am very excited to talk
Speaker 2: to him about it and its themes and all the
Speaker 2: wonderful things contained within the brightly colored covers. Ryan Lesala
Speaker 2: is in the house. Hi, Ryan, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm so good.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. Yeah.
Speaker 20: I definitely loved the element of the bachelorette party being
Speaker 20: the moment that fucked it up for everyone, because that
Speaker 20: much is in life.
Speaker 21: Yeah, that's not fiction.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's truly not.
Speaker 21: I mean, the thing is, though I don't know, like,
Speaker 21: I'm friends with a lot of drag queens and they
Speaker 21: can't necessarily speak ill about the bachelorettes because my bachelottes have.
Speaker 2: Money, right.
Speaker 21: They bring in like an infusion of tourism that like
Speaker 21: we kind of need in order to provide what we
Speaker 21: need for like the rest of our community in those spaces,
Speaker 21: And so I like the idea of like a necessary evil,
Speaker 21: being part of part of this particular world. That's how
Speaker 21: I think about them. But even when you go to
Speaker 21: these places, right like Rovin Sound, or like if you
Speaker 21: go to like gay bars and stuff, like even the
Speaker 21: physical invasion of a bachelorette party, like all of these
Speaker 21: people dressed identical. And I'm talking about like the straight
Speaker 21: bachelor parties, because you've seen plenty of lesbian bachelor parties
Speaker 21: roll up and they look fantastic, right, and I'm glad
Speaker 21: that they're there, But I'm talking about the like you know,
Speaker 21: like the Savannah girls, and like they'll probably be a
Speaker 21: little bit more at home in like Nashville, right, but
Speaker 21: they've decided to come to like this gay bar and
Speaker 21: the girls, the WU girls, right, and like there is
Speaker 21: this out like there is this sense of like invasion
Speaker 21: about them and the way that they look and there
Speaker 21: it kind of feels fungle right to see all these people,
Speaker 21: like they're like pink buzzy shirts with their ciaras, Like
Speaker 21: I'm sold and I'm gonna, like, you know, I'm scared
Speaker 21: that I'm gonna like leave the bar and find like
Speaker 21: a feather boa.
Speaker 2: Like snaking around my neck, right, Like it.
Speaker 21: It feels contagious.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden. The only thing you that will
Speaker 2: sustain you is rose.
Speaker 21: Right, I know, I know, and I need to cry
Speaker 21: off my mescara twice in one night, but then reapply
Speaker 21: it in the bathroom and be like built back up
Speaker 21: by my girls, right, Like I do feel a tender
Speaker 21: thing for these these bachelor parties. But you know, I
Speaker 21: wanted to write about that particular like entitlement and how
Speaker 21: it can sometimes spell disaster for a place.
Speaker 2: She is a New York Times bestselling author. She has
Speaker 2: written an amazing and fun and dark book darkly fabulous
Speaker 2: will call it. It is called girl Dinner, And I
Speaker 2: am excited to have Olivi Blake in the house. Hi, Olivi,
Speaker 2: how are you?
Speaker 13: Hi?
Speaker 16: I'm great, Thank you so much for having me. Really,
Speaker 16: Girl Dinner started as a punchline. I mean it was
Speaker 16: when obviously obviously it's a reference to the meme I'm
Speaker 16: not on TikTok, so like it reached me like last
Speaker 16: I like to joke that it reached me as you
Speaker 16: know Anne Hathaway's Cerulian sweater. You know, it trickled down
Speaker 16: to me. And so then I was like wouldn't it
Speaker 16: be funny if I wrote a satire about a cannibal
Speaker 16: sorority and called it girl Dinner and enough people laughed.
Speaker 2: That here we are. Okay, So I'm glad you said
Speaker 2: cannibalism because I was trying to figure out how to
Speaker 2: talk about it without talking.
Speaker 16: About it, right, No, no, no, we can just talk
Speaker 16: about it. The thing is that I when I wrote this,
Speaker 16: or when I when I told my editor and she's like,
Speaker 16: you have to write that, I was like, don't you
Speaker 16: think there's been a lot of cannibal books recently?
Speaker 2: Like I had read a lot, at.
Speaker 16: Least four or five books in twenty twenty three where
Speaker 16: it was like the surprise twist is cannibalism. And I
Speaker 16: was like, if we're if I'm going to do this,
Speaker 16: if I'm going to contribute to the cannon of cannibalism,
Speaker 16: then I want it to be to not turn on
Speaker 16: the twist like that. You can kind of know the
Speaker 16: whole way through that you're like, oh God, they're cannibals,
Speaker 16: aren't they.
Speaker 2: So well it was funny because I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: so they're cannibals. Wait they're witches. Wait they're vampire they're
Speaker 2: gonna be all of them watched. Luckily there was no
Speaker 2: wrong answer.
Speaker 16: Yeah it's maybe, and yeah.
Speaker 2: I love it, and and part of me is like, hmm,
Speaker 2: do I have a list? But I don't think many
Speaker 2: of the people on my list would be very nutritious
Speaker 2: for anyone. I also love the themes of.
Speaker 3: What is a good woman?
Speaker 2: I'm putting that in their quotes and is there such
Speaker 2: a thing?
Speaker 21: Right?
Speaker 16: Yeah, that's really the question, and the book is not
Speaker 16: trying to answer the question. I will just say that
Speaker 16: straight up. I think there's been a lot of people
Speaker 16: have been like, oh, girl Dinner is like the start
Speaker 16: of this femgor trend or something, which it absolutely is not.
Speaker 16: Girl Dinner is very much like in conversation with what
Speaker 16: I already see as an identifiable trend, like there's you know,
Speaker 16: the woman having a meltdown is like pretty much my
Speaker 16: favorite literary subgenre, and this is a book that is
Speaker 16: very much one of those. But I think what's different
Speaker 16: about Girl Dinner is that it's like it already it
Speaker 16: already knows about those books.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you once again by Decanted
Speaker 1: jug Wine and my return to the mic after a
Speaker 1: three months hiat us. Oh my goodness, and four months
Speaker 1: without a cigarette, I have missed being here. I'm jumping
Speaker 1: to Manuel Miranda, who was an owl dot com saying
Speaker 1: it was an easy decision to cancel Hamilton at the
Speaker 1: Kennedy Center, another institution that Trump has trashed law while
Speaker 1: I was away. Yeah, they refused to perform, and good.
Speaker 2: And not just them like Isa Ray was supposed to
Speaker 2: perform and didn't. It was a bunch of folks. And
Speaker 2: it's basically like, fuck, y'all.
Speaker 1: Is your monkey ass happiness?
Speaker 2: You got? You got?
Speaker 1: Let's see kid Rock, Nicki Minaje, right and Chachi.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so enjoy that.
Speaker 2: And just because you put a house faggot in charge
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that it's going to be art.
Speaker 1: No, it does not, No, it doesn't. I have an anecdote.
Speaker 1: I would love to add to that, but I'm not
Speaker 1: going to. But I have one right at the tip
Speaker 1: of my dad.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he does know how many minutes
Speaker 2: make up a year. He's not the one, got dad,
Speaker 2: He's not the one.
Speaker 1: No mm hmm no, no, no, no, no. It's going
Speaker 1: to take a long time to get these institutions back
Speaker 1: to look at all the mess, because we've got like
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a drunken toddler just running through
Speaker 1: the country.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's an apt image.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just just smashing things, including the Kennedy Center.
Speaker 2: The arts community had five hundred and twenty five six
Speaker 2: hundred ways to say fuck you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, now had said that this was a publicity
Speaker 1: stunt that would backfire, and of course, you know, this
Speaker 1: is the Center's new president.
Speaker 2: Of course he deleted that tweet. Mm hmm. They don't
Speaker 2: need to do a publicity stunt. They're fucking Hamilton.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course, Harvey Ferestein said he was banned
Speaker 1: from the Kennedy Center after he criticized Trump and called
Speaker 1: Crenell a self loathing queer because he is that part,
Speaker 1: you know, and self loathing queer is a little more
Speaker 1: eloquent than.
Speaker 2: Housewaggot, but it's the exact same thing.
Speaker 7: It is.
Speaker 1: Distinction without a difference, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Very much. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Today we're visiting with artistic director Deborah Block and actors
Speaker 1: Ariana Gaile and Scott Career from Theater Exile in South Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: We recently saw their play job and it stuck with me.
Speaker 1: What an incredibly intense experience. We're really excited to talk
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: How are you all?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: All speak at once. It's fine.
Speaker 2: You mention your choice for intimate plays that can exist
Speaker 2: in intimate space, and I have. I've only seen a
Speaker 2: handful of productions from Theater Exile. Loved every one of them,
Speaker 2: but every one of them has been exactly that intimate
Speaker 2: taking place in one location. And if I may really
Speaker 2: fucked up, and it's low key, what I come to expect,
Speaker 2: and is that the the fucked upness? Is that something
Speaker 2: that you go you look for in each play or
Speaker 2: that's just a happy accident for me in the times
Speaker 2: that I've got no I think.
Speaker 22: That's that's a little bit of of our dna. I
Speaker 22: really like to dig into the human condition. We like
Speaker 22: things to feel timely, to feel like current, like we
Speaker 22: should be seeing this right now, that it makes sense
Speaker 22: that we're watching it right now. But when you get
Speaker 22: into the truth of the human condition, we're messy there
Speaker 22: and and and we all have a little fucked upness
Speaker 22: within us, and most of us I think try and
Speaker 22: put the good face and do our best journey. I
Speaker 22: think both of these characters we're trying to be their
Speaker 22: best selves through the whole journey, because I think that's
Speaker 22: what we try to do. But when you reveal what's
Speaker 22: going on underneath, it gets complicated and messy and dirty.
Speaker 22: And I don't think we can fix things or understand
Speaker 22: things if we don't dive into that. So I'm not
Speaker 22: surprised that of the handful of things there was a
Speaker 22: through line of fucked upness.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, So it wasn't just a happy accident, Okay, No,
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean.
Speaker 22: There might be some things that you wouldn't describe that way,
Speaker 22: But I don't know, Scott. You know, our work is
Speaker 22: as well as anyone.
Speaker 21: What do you think.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I like that that Exile chooses plays that challenge
Speaker 5: and engage with you. You know, it is not you
Speaker 5: don't go to theater Exile to be nostalgic or to
Speaker 5: be you know, modified, or you know, have you know,
Speaker 5: nice easy experience. But it's always entertaining and engaging and
Speaker 5: sort of asks you to look at things from a
Speaker 5: different perspective, ask you to re examine things that you
Speaker 5: thought you understood really well and h and so it's
Speaker 5: and again it is the audience knows why they're there
Speaker 5: and is excited to be there, and that's very gratifying
Speaker 5: to be a part of.
Speaker 2: Just don't come expecting forty second Street. Yeah, I said,
Speaker 2: we said, Charles said, well, no, Second Street.
Speaker 5: Who doesn't want to watch, you know, incredible tap dancing
Speaker 5: for two hours?
Speaker 1: That's not this?
Speaker 2: Ain't that.
Speaker 1: We got outside and Charles said, well, and I said,
Speaker 1: that was not a musical. Today, we have gathered two
Speaker 1: wonderful friends to talk about one of my favorite holiday movies,
Speaker 1: The Family Stone with us First. She has a two
Speaker 1: time Peabody Award winning children's radio host from Philadelphia and
Speaker 1: our go to media guru on all things media and entertainment,
Speaker 1: and our dear one, Kathy O'Connell, welcome back back.
Speaker 10: You very happy to be here, kidscorner dot oorg. Okay,
Speaker 10: that's the end of my ad from now on Family Stone.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: And he is doctor Alfred L. Martin, Junior Chair and
Speaker 1: Associate Professor in the Department of Cinematic Arts at the
Speaker 1: University of Miami, author of The Generic Closet, Black Gayness
Speaker 1: and The Black Cast sitcom, editor of Rolling Blackness and
Speaker 1: Mediated Comedy, and co editor of The Golden Girls. Essay
Speaker 1: from the Lunai. He's also the author of Fandom for
Speaker 1: Us by Us, which contains you someone in there, You're
Speaker 1: in it. I am your host, Martha Madrigal.
Speaker 2: And I'm your host. Charles Tyson Junior and Alfred.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Full Circle Table.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. Well, I always
Speaker 2: say The Family Stone my favorite Christmas movie about a
Speaker 2: problematic white family, and they're problematic white house guests. Yes,
Speaker 2: that's what this is. I do appreciate though, the fact
Speaker 2: that you know, because that is hearing impaired. They sprinkle
Speaker 2: asl throughout the dialogue of the film, and it's it's
Speaker 2: kind of like Spanglish. They go in and out of
Speaker 2: it because they don't sign everything they say. They just
Speaker 2: sign like pointed phrases and things.
Speaker 1: Which, yeah, and you know, I've read up some on that.
Speaker 1: I did two things. I read up on that, and
Speaker 1: that is very much how it's pretty accurate in the
Speaker 1: ways that a hearing family does interact.
Speaker 10: Well, I was telling Alfred about this earlier. I watched
Speaker 10: A Q and A with the actors who played the siblings,
Speaker 10: which is how I finally figured out that it's Luke
Speaker 10: Wilson who's in the movie now, and they talked about
Speaker 10: the naturalness and how everybody did get to use because
Speaker 10: tied John, I was said, is right there on the
Speaker 10: panel with them, and how everyone was very comfortable learning
Speaker 10: like Christmases, except for Craig T. Nelson, who couldn't just
Speaker 10: like gracefully get any of them. He had the most
Speaker 10: trouble with the ASL. And they commented on that very thing,
Speaker 10: how very real it was, and how natural every body
Speaker 10: in the family.
Speaker 2: His lack of grace actually read to me as someone
Speaker 2: that's just been doing it for so long that it's
Speaker 2: just casual and it's like a household dialect. Even it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, I do this, I mean Christmas.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So it does ring true that idea of span English.
Speaker 1: But I sent the particular clip where, you know, because
Speaker 1: I could not find an answer online.
Speaker 2: And Grandma signed something really very bad, but we never
Speaker 2: know what that is. No one knows, and so I
Speaker 2: heard speculation.
Speaker 1: Well, I sent the clip to my friend who is
Speaker 1: an ASL interpreter, and she said, honestly, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't see enough to tell you what she just said.
Speaker 1: And that was kind of what I heard. So I
Speaker 1: still don't know, the world will never know what Grandma's on.
Speaker 1: You know, I assumed it was go fuck yourself, That's
Speaker 1: what I assumed it was.
Speaker 10: But I assume that's what it was. I just assumed
Speaker 10: that from the beginning.
Speaker 2: Well, whatever it is, it wasn't the first time that
Speaker 2: little girl saw it. Point it out.
Speaker 10: Let me talk about that little girl. Can we get
Speaker 10: right to it?
Speaker 1: But you can, because if that starts right in the hallway.
Speaker 10: With that kid has two D syndrome, you know, the
Speaker 10: rottenest kid who has ever been in a movie, who's
Speaker 10: in my favorite movie Meet Me in Saint Louis, who
Speaker 10: never learns that actions have consequences. And I tell you
Speaker 10: right now, if I had broken the heel on some
Speaker 10: guest shoe right they wouldn't be saying, oh, it's okay,
Speaker 10: it's okay, Elizabeth, or I think we have glue somewhere.
Speaker 10: And the mother, I mean, Susanna is my favorite of
Speaker 10: old siblings. She's the only one I could truly stand
Speaker 10: and she just accepts it.
Speaker 2: Well, we talked about that last night. Susannah is the
Speaker 2: middle child, one of them, one of the middle middle children,
Speaker 2: and so like she has that whole, like, I'm not
Speaker 2: rocking the boat, I'm not causing waves energy like she
Speaker 2: never really like, so I'm it probably carries over into
Speaker 2: how she raises that child. It's fine, and we got
Speaker 2: two of those, right, yeah, Like well.
Speaker 1: Big, But I keep saying in the child's defense, she
Speaker 1: asked a question and she was ignored.
Speaker 2: She didn't get an answer, so therefore she didn't have
Speaker 2: permission to touch anyone else's shoes.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, she tried.
Speaker 2: She tried. If I say, can I play with your shoes?
Speaker 2: And I don't get an answer, that is not an
Speaker 2: implied yes, that is, leave it alone until you get
Speaker 2: the answer to your question.
Speaker 10: Exactly and obviously upside stranger i've never met, exactly can
Speaker 10: I play with your shoes?
Speaker 2: Especially when you said to her, I like your shoes
Speaker 2: and she acted like you spat at her feet because
Speaker 2: she didn't know how to take a fucking compliment. So
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to touch your shoes.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Decanta jug Wine
Speaker 1: Surviving the Holidays and a country I wish I didn't recognize,
Speaker 1: but I do.
Speaker 2: So I've seen this. I've seen multiple camera angles of
Speaker 2: this happening. Someone took the time to do a three
Speaker 2: D model to read like, to show it from all angles. There,
Speaker 2: there's no way any of their arguments hold any kind
Speaker 2: of water. She was not advancing toward any of them.
Speaker 2: She was turning to get a way to move the
Speaker 2: car that they fucking told her to move. Okay, and.
Speaker 10: She was right.
Speaker 2: The one Ice agent was in front of her car.
Speaker 2: She did not aim at anyone, and she wasn't moving
Speaker 2: that fast because she was trying to not hit anyone
Speaker 2: or anything. But he was mad that she didn't like.
Speaker 1: She wasn't afraid of him, and she wasn't going to
Speaker 1: get out of the car, so he fired, which surprises
Speaker 1: no woman, Right, so you fired three shots? Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a very fragile white man. This is what they're
Speaker 1: capable of when when they feel not taken seriously threatened
Speaker 1: in the not even threatened, laughed at in the least,
Speaker 1: not given the full dignity they want because they now
Speaker 1: have some stupid title. Whatever the fuck, that's what this is, right,
Speaker 1: that's all this is. This woman did nothing wrong. I
Speaker 1: hope this has been my thought. I hope this is
Speaker 1: the televised fire hoses. I hope that is this moment, right,
Speaker 1: you know, it moves the needle when it is a
Speaker 1: person of color. Now it's a white lady.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Now what and they're trying to use the fact, right,
Speaker 2: you're trying to they were trying to use the fact
Speaker 2: that she's queer to like diminish her fucking value as
Speaker 2: if that you know what I'm saying, of course, like,
Speaker 2: of course, like so that is discussing Like I am
Speaker 2: not trained in law enforcement, and my first thought would be, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: if you're in that situation, you feel that that's a threat,
Speaker 2: you shoot the tires, not the driver, right, m just me.
Speaker 2: Apparently after he killed her, he could be heard saying,
Speaker 2: fucking bitch, like really really, So that's right. That goes
Speaker 2: to show that really all it was was you were
Speaker 2: trying to show that up aty woman a lesson for not.
Speaker 1: Listening to her at that is correct, That is not
Speaker 1: That is not a man in fear of his life. No,
Speaker 1: that's a man whose ego has been brushed against.
Speaker 2: Not to mention, she was moving at such a low
Speaker 2: rate of speed that he had three to five business
Speaker 2: days to get the fuck out of the way. I'm threatened.
Speaker 2: My life was threatened, like get the fuck out of here. No, no,
Speaker 2: And then there was a candlelight vigil for the woman
Speaker 2: that they murdered, and there's agents there and there's video
Speaker 2: of this one kicking over candles, just kicking them over,
Speaker 2: and someone was like, do you understand what you just did?
Speaker 2: And all they have to say is back up, Like
Speaker 2: do you know why that was there? Back up? Do
Speaker 2: you know why that candle was there? Back up? It
Speaker 2: was this is a vigil for this woman. Back up?
Speaker 2: And then he pushed the guy back. It's like they're bullies.
Speaker 2: They're the fucking Gestapo. That's all they are. This is
Speaker 2: Gestapo two point Oh you can't tell me different. They
Speaker 2: will be starring in the one person show Draw The
Speaker 2: Circle Present my Hedgerow Theater Company in Philadelphia. We're going
Speaker 2: to hear a lot about that, I'm sure, plus countless
Speaker 2: other fabulous and fears things from our guest, Joseph Ahmed.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the full Circle Table.
Speaker 14: Joseph, thank you.
Speaker 11: It's a delighted to be here. This is the first
Speaker 11: time I have played outside of my own work or
Speaker 11: staged reading a South Asian person on stage. This is
Speaker 11: the first time outside of those contexts that I have
Speaker 11: had to use any South Asian accent, had to do
Speaker 11: an Indian accent. It's also the first time therefore, also
Speaker 11: that I've played like a Nonsis South Asian person age.
Speaker 21: I have played so.
Speaker 3: Many other people.
Speaker 1: I have been.
Speaker 11: Mexican, I have been Hawaiian, I have been Haitian for
Speaker 11: some reason.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, from the north side.
Speaker 11: I really like this been inside for a while from
Speaker 11: the so it's really amazing to be in a story
Speaker 11: that is so salve Asian. It just like feels like
Speaker 11: such an honor and such a rare circumstance for like
Speaker 11: the moment and the person to align that I actually
Speaker 11: get to be in this way.
Speaker 3: Nice and.
Speaker 11: Similarly to Transnis, I think in like, in stepping into
Speaker 11: this show, I've had to struggle through a lot of
Speaker 11: feelings of not being trans enough and not being Asian
Speaker 11: enough to do the plan and I have and these
Speaker 11: are also just like struggles I have in my life.
Speaker 11: I have the constant struggle I'm feeling Asian enough. A
Speaker 11: lot of this for me comes back to the fact that,
Speaker 11: unlike I think a lot of South Asian families and
Speaker 11: Dean's family. In the play, where there is this weight
Speaker 11: of a whole bunch of cultural expectations that get put
Speaker 11: onto kids, I didn't really have them because of the
Speaker 11: way that my family has made up.
Speaker 15: I was sort of more of is like.
Speaker 11: You're kind of like my white kid, like you're kind
Speaker 11: of your mom's kid, and like I'm gonna not and
Speaker 11: there's some decision between the two of them of like
Speaker 11: sort of which expectations would be laid on me and
Speaker 11: which weren't. In some ways, that's been very freeing, and
Speaker 11: it's always it's been very like alienating and distancing from
Speaker 11: my identity and for my family, and so it's been
Speaker 11: really interesting because I have had to navigate a lot
Speaker 11: through those feelings of not being Asian enough, and it's
Speaker 11: been really lovely. The moments some moments in the story
Speaker 11: I'm like, oh, yeah, man, this was not my experience
Speaker 11: at all. And then there's these other just like small
Speaker 11: moments that will come out where I'm like, oh.
Speaker 2: This is so truely. There's this moment where a.
Speaker 11: Lot of the play is based around this one thing,
Speaker 11: like intense thanksgiving that they had together, and at the
Speaker 11: end of that thanksgiving, the mom is describing like packing
Speaker 11: up food to go, and she's putting it in the
Speaker 11: yogurt containers and labeling it and then tying those up
Speaker 11: tightly in a plastic bag so they won't leave.
Speaker 14: And I was just like, this is exactly what my
Speaker 14: mother family does, like to a tee.
Speaker 11: This is just like right on the notes. So it's
Speaker 11: really lovely of finding those bits of connection moments.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Decanta drug Wine
Speaker 1: and my disdain with Sis's male fragility. Notice I didn't
Speaker 1: say Sis had because if they were actually straight, we
Speaker 1: probably have far fewer issues and reserved ice for beverages
Speaker 1: where it belongs.
Speaker 2: The story that went out is in direct conflict with
Speaker 2: the eyewitness accounts of not just Keith Porter's family, but
Speaker 2: other residents of the of the the neighborhood, like, for instance,
Speaker 2: the off duty agent Ice agent was saying how Keith
Speaker 2: had fired on him when he's gone at him, when
Speaker 2: actually what happened was Keith went outside to celebrate as
Speaker 2: many others had done before him, and shut the gun
Speaker 2: in the air by shooting his ar fifteen in the
Speaker 2: air and that was it. He was on his way
Speaker 2: back into the house when his neighbor. The off duty
Speaker 2: ICE agent, after having gone inside and put on putting
Speaker 2: on his tactical gear, came outside and threatened him and
Speaker 2: shot him dead, and.
Speaker 1: We go put my suit on, right, because black people
Speaker 1: aren't supposed to have automatic weapons, right. They didn't mean that.
Speaker 2: And the biggest, the one point that stuck out to
Speaker 2: me was the family member was saying how the ICE
Speaker 2: agent reported that Keith fired three shots at him, and
Speaker 2: that someone was saying how three shots were heard, and
Speaker 2: she was like, it was an AR fifteen.
Speaker 1: You can't fire three shots, right, which.
Speaker 2: Is an automatic weapon. Yeah, so even if you the
Speaker 2: trigger once, it's going to be more than three shots.
Speaker 1: Which arguably should not have existed in the first place.
Speaker 1: But you know what it did, right, it did. And
Speaker 1: the people who you know who would defend the ICE
Speaker 1: agent are the ones who defend you know, citizens being
Speaker 1: able to be so armed.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 1: But you only met white people probably, right, Oh of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: along with your friendly So it was a neighbor white. Yes.
Speaker 2: And it has recently come out that the agent is
Speaker 2: facing allegations of abuse and hateful remarks, according to a
Speaker 2: new La Times report, and given the new allegations, the
Speaker 2: family of Keith Porter and their attorney believe that this
Speaker 2: could qualify as a hate crime or a race related well,
Speaker 2: even though we knew that before.
Speaker 1: Right now, right, because there's a history here and the
Speaker 1: LA Times is reporting on it right good, So I
Speaker 1: just wanted to.
Speaker 2: Make sure that in this episode we made a point
Speaker 2: of mentioning Keith Porter Jr. And the fact that his
Speaker 2: death was just as significant and wasn't getting the talk
Speaker 2: and the press that it should.
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by a decanted jug
Speaker 1: wine snow days and frigid temperatures is currently sixteen degrees
Speaker 1: here in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: And I related to lamont on Sanford and son, you know,
Speaker 2: the whole like wanting more for yourself, no matter where
Speaker 2: you happen to be from.
Speaker 1: Right, you know, right? And his actual first name, which
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting, was Grady.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Great, And there was the character a great friend of
Speaker 1: Red Sandford who was Grady, right, So I wonder if
Speaker 1: that was.
Speaker 2: Because it's not that common of a name. It really
Speaker 2: is not, so really it is not like even then,
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, Sanfordan's son, I did not realize was only
Speaker 1: on between seventy two and seventy seven. Yeah, so about
Speaker 1: six year of sixth seasons. I guess part of that
Speaker 1: seasons maybe was Red Fox.
Speaker 2: Didn't want to be type cast as an old man
Speaker 2: because he wasn't as old as he played.
Speaker 1: No, he wasn't, was he He was not all that.
Speaker 2: Old, and he was starting to like get put in
Speaker 2: that box.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 2: And he was like I still got like host to
Speaker 2: fucking cocaine to snort that I can't be right right right,
Speaker 2: I'm not speaking out a term by saying that either he.
Speaker 1: Was yeah right, I remember he uh, Wanda Page right, Lawanda,
Speaker 1: Lawanda Page?
Speaker 2: What played his and esther? Well, his sister esther?
Speaker 1: No, No, his wife's sister, his dead wife who was
Speaker 1: because I'm coming, I'm coming Elizabeth Elizabeth? Yes, yes, and
Speaker 1: apparently and I don't remember when I heard.
Speaker 2: This, but she was filthy.
Speaker 1: Yah my god. She worked Dark Blue.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you that, Midnight Blue. Because I discovered
Speaker 2: on Apple Music all these old old school comedian sets,
Speaker 2: like I discovered Dick Gregory and Red Fox and and
Speaker 2: and hmmm, and I came across Lawanda Page and I
Speaker 2: was like, I okay, So when I was in college
Speaker 2: used to buy all these house tapes, and there was
Speaker 2: this one like Triple X house tape, and there was
Speaker 2: a set of Hers that was on there, and I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, that's nasty, but you know I can
Speaker 2: handle that. It's it's kind of funny. And then I
Speaker 2: found an actual comedy album of hers.
Speaker 3: I couldn't listen to the whole thing.
Speaker 1: It was too much for me, really that much. I
Speaker 1: was like, God, damn, that offended your sensibility with.
Speaker 2: The where and the what until you fall in the
Speaker 2: witch and you're wiping it from what off your ooh child,
Speaker 2: I can't I might walk past the child or want
Speaker 2: to eat food later, I can't listen to them.
Speaker 1: Right, That's funny because not many comedians worked filthy.
Speaker 2: That was philth A. I have never heard any comic
Speaker 2: more dirty than Lawanda Page.
Speaker 1: And I never knew that.
Speaker 3: And that's that's oh that's handsome ship.
Speaker 1: I never knew that. But yeah, I remember that. I
Speaker 1: think I think we talked about that when she died. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that they you know, people were talking about this early days.
Speaker 2: She also did. She was a talented burlesque performer who.
Speaker 1: Okay, well they used to call us party albums. I
Speaker 1: think to the comedy albums that were.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that album would bring the party to a screeching, fucking.
Speaker 1: Risque but not right yeah, because like.
Speaker 2: Bred Fox, that was a party album. Lawanda age is
Speaker 2: what you, I guess play to let people know it's
Speaker 2: time to go. I don't know.
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Speaker 1: and the exhaustion of the Ancestors.
Speaker 2: I remember I watched, especially the first season of Top Model,
Speaker 2: Like Lisa and I had a standing date at her
Speaker 2: apartment where I would come and we would watch this
Speaker 2: show and it was just like, you know, this is
Speaker 2: the early days of reality television. So it was the
Speaker 2: Wow wild West Child and you know, seeing these young
Speaker 2: girls be put through the ringer for the chance at
Speaker 2: a career as a model. And I realized that part
Speaker 2: of the reason why I accepted so much of the
Speaker 2: stuff that happened on this show was because at the
Speaker 2: time I was an up and coming artist trying to
Speaker 2: make my way in the dog eat dog world of
Speaker 2: performing arts. Sure, so you know the whole thing of
Speaker 2: like you got to pay your dues and these things
Speaker 2: you got to do, and this things you got to
Speaker 2: put up with, and you know, you can't complain and
Speaker 2: you can't bitch, and you got to do this, and
Speaker 2: you gotta do this.
Speaker 1: So like all that just aligned thing raped on cameras
Speaker 1: shouldn't be one of.
Speaker 3: Them, thank you.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so so many things came out that happened
Speaker 2: to these girls in the process of making the show,
Speaker 2: and you know, a lot of it just wasn't cool.
Speaker 2: And it was supposed to be. It was supposed to
Speaker 2: be a rejection of the fashion world at the time. Well,
Speaker 2: at the same time, it was a reflection of the
Speaker 2: fashion world.
Speaker 1: It really was, because you know, while that there was
Speaker 1: lip service page to this, you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: being some new frontier, I heard an awful lot about
Speaker 1: that's the way things are. Yeah, that was confusing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Tyra claimed that her whole reason for starting
Speaker 2: the show was to show the fashion world that there's
Speaker 2: more than one body type, there's more than one skin color,
Speaker 2: there's more than one look, right, and then as she
Speaker 2: was quickly reminded she was making a fucking television show.
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, you know, oh, you have
Speaker 2: to watch your weight, Oh you need to look like this, right,
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, five seconds ago you said, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: and these girls are just gonna do whatever they are told.
Speaker 1: As children looked like they had not how to meal, and.
Speaker 2: Exactly like the PLU because I remember, like every season
Speaker 2: there's always one plus size model, at least one plus
Speaker 2: size model, and looking back, I'm like, she's plus size
Speaker 2: in that she's a size sex right, right, And that
Speaker 2: was fucked up because one of the girls was talking
Speaker 2: about and there was one plus size model that actually
Speaker 2: won like far now in line when I had no
Speaker 2: longer been watching the show, and she was talking about
Speaker 2: how you know she's being uplifted as like, you know,
Speaker 2: you're doing this for the big girls, and this for
Speaker 2: the plus size models. But yet nowhere they sent her
Speaker 2: had clothes that fit her, you know, of course, and
Speaker 2: all of these challenges and all of these things were
Speaker 2: basically designed to break these girls down and.
Speaker 16: Right.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that that like totally horrified
Speaker 2: me was cycle two. I remember watching in real time
Speaker 2: with everyone else. The storyline of the girls were sent
Speaker 2: to Milan and they had to go on their go seas,
Speaker 2: and so each of the girls was assigned an Italian
Speaker 2: man on a vespa to take them to their go
Speaker 2: sees and so the challenge was they had to communicate
Speaker 2: with their guy because they didn't speak Italian and they
Speaker 2: didn't speak the guys didn't speak English. Had to get
Speaker 2: to their go season time and everything okay, fine. Then
Speaker 2: afterwards they come back to the house and oh, surprise, surprise,
Speaker 2: here's the guys again. And they're all like drinking and
Speaker 2: laughing and having a good time, and some of them
Speaker 2: are in the hot tub, and Shandy ends up like
Speaker 2: making out with one of the guys. And she has
Speaker 2: a boyfriend back in the States, and so you know,
Speaker 2: we're shown that, like, you know, they hook up, they
Speaker 2: have sex, and then she starts freaking out because she
Speaker 2: cheated on her boyfriend.
Speaker 1: That that is how it was all framed.
Speaker 2: That's how I remember seeing her moral failing on the television. Yes, right,
Speaker 2: and she was a wreck for cheating on her boyfriend.
Speaker 2: She you know, called her boyfriend, who handled it very badly,
Speaker 2: called her a fucking bitch and all this stuff. When
Speaker 2: she broke down and told him that she cheated on him. Right,
Speaker 2: come to find out, what ended up happening was she
Speaker 2: was sexually assaulted by this young man.
Speaker 1: Her account at this point is very different from what
Speaker 1: was their yet, right, and that she you know, and
Speaker 1: they filmed it all right, They kept filming copious amounts
Speaker 1: of alcohol, no food, right, and that she blacked out
Speaker 1: at some point and you know in the hot time,
Speaker 1: she doesn't no memory.
Speaker 2: She said, at one point, I could feel that sex
Speaker 2: was happening, but I wasn't aware of what was going on.
Speaker 2: That's rape, yeah, period, And they filmed it so and
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here like, oh my god, oh my god,
Speaker 2: because a that's what happened to her, and be the
Speaker 2: way they framed it, because like I said, I remember
Speaker 2: being like, why is she like reacting so like this
Speaker 2: so dramatically over you know she hooked up with because
Speaker 2: you know, I'm thinking, like, you're an eighteen year old girl,
Speaker 2: you're on top model, you're in Milan, you hooked up
Speaker 2: with an Italian dude after being in a photo shoot. Like, okay,
Speaker 2: you cheated on your boyfriend. But girl, come on now,
Speaker 2: I understand that's not why she was upset. That's horrifying.
Speaker 2: Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted by
Speaker 2: Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, produced and edited by
Speaker 2: Never Scured Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal.
Speaker 2: Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio,
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