Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What what's gonna happen?
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: What I help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode.
Speaker 2: I got the Spiritual Gangster Teresa with me co hosting,
Speaker 2: and I also got my boy Mike Magic Mike as
Speaker 2: some people may know of him. I got all of
Speaker 2: them coming on with me today on The Occult Rejects,
Speaker 2: and we got to guest. Uh, you know, I always
Speaker 2: love having this guy on. We always have amazing chats
Speaker 2: and uh yeah, I mean he's even inspired me to
Speaker 2: start doing stuff in filming. I think he does amazing work.
Speaker 2: You know, I really can't say enough. We got called
Speaker 2: the Crusher on with us tonight. But before we get
Speaker 2: to them, I do want to let Teresa and Michael
Speaker 2: Lisa plug themselves. Teresa, let everybody know where they can
Speaker 2: find you, and you know, all your other stuff or
Speaker 2: whatever you want to plug.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 1: Thanks.
Speaker 4: So yeah, people can find me on the Spiritual Gangsters podcast,
Speaker 4: which is YouTube and all the usual places people listen
Speaker 4: to podcasts, and also on Instagram and x at t
Speaker 4: s gangster spot.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, and I'm pretty sure your links
Speaker 2: are still on my link tree. So if people want
Speaker 2: to go check out his stuff. Her links are in there,
Speaker 2: and Mike, I guess I mean real quick, if you want,
Speaker 2: you can plug your social media and whatever shows that
Speaker 2: you've been on that you'd like to promote.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you want to get a hold of me
Speaker 5: Magic with two k's, Mike with two k's and two
Speaker 5: e's at x dot com. Yeah, I'm sorry, I've been
Speaker 5: on Subconscious Realms in the Day's Radio and Threshold Saints
Speaker 5: with our friend, So.
Speaker 1: Check it out.
Speaker 2: Definitely, you would just dropped. Did you just drop on
Speaker 2: gins recently? You did? Right?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that one's drop Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think like a week or two or ago. Yeah. Nice. Nice, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so people go definitely go check that out. And no,
Speaker 2: Magic Mike does not have an only fins. Sorry, don't go.
Speaker 1: By that name.
Speaker 2: You'd probably assume you would, right, Yeah, sorry to disappoint.
Speaker 3: You, ladies.
Speaker 2: My goodness. But now finally finally to the guest, my
Speaker 2: man call again, thank you so much for coming back on.
Speaker 2: Can you please let everybody know because I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: new listeners since the last time you've been on. Let
Speaker 2: everybody know, like what your deal is and who you are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I go by Carl Crusher. My real name is
Speaker 3: Carl Andreson. I'm a full time filmmaker, YouTube content creator,
Speaker 3: and I just explore the mysteries of UFOs paranormal locations,
Speaker 3: places like Skinwalker Ranch, Area fifty one, Project, Hestlin and
Speaker 3: Norway all over the place now cently a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff to.
Speaker 1: Do with drones and all that.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of my life story comes up
Speaker 3: in the mix of all of that and research and
Speaker 3: everything too.
Speaker 1: So it's been really interesting.
Speaker 2: It wasn't. Thank you very much, Carl. Yeah, I at
Speaker 2: least suggest to go check out his channel. He has
Speaker 2: some real amazing work out there. This some stuff that
Speaker 2: I've seen him post and I'm just like, yo, I
Speaker 2: don't even know what the hell that is like to me,
Speaker 2: it's some real wild paranormals, some sort of evidence. Guys
Speaker 2: got stuff on the film. Definitely go check it out.
Speaker 2: And I'll just be honest with you. Just this guy
Speaker 2: in a fake either so you know, this is my opinion.
Speaker 2: So that's some real weird shit he's got on film.
Speaker 2: So yeah, if you're into the whole skin Skinwalker Ranch,
Speaker 2: also Mount Wilson you've been to, and plus plenty of
Speaker 2: other places yeah, check it out. Uh yeah, of course,
Speaker 2: of course, I know we might end up getting into
Speaker 2: the drones. Maybe I'm finally gonna kind of get you
Speaker 2: on for a topic. I think it was the last
Speaker 2: two times I was gonna have you on, but then
Speaker 2: you ended up having stuff that I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: we got to talk about this instead. Finally kind of
Speaker 2: got you on to talk a little bit about I
Speaker 2: guess you know your experience with Mormonism. I know that
Speaker 2: you have mentioned on the show before. It's never been
Speaker 2: something you've hidden. You've always been open about being the
Speaker 2: next Mormon. Uh. And I guess maybe maybe some of
Speaker 2: the listeners maybe don't remember or whatever, but uh, or
Speaker 2: even really even heard you mention it. But maybe if
Speaker 2: you don't mind, I mean, maybe we can go into,
Speaker 2: like I guess, a little bit of how you got
Speaker 2: into it, and then I guess, you know, wherever you
Speaker 2: want to go from there, tell you a story however
Speaker 2: it goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, I mean specifically being I was born as a
Speaker 3: member of the the what they refer to.
Speaker 1: They're very specific.
Speaker 3: They want you to call them the Church of Jesus
Speaker 3: Christ of Latter day Saints. They don't like being called Mormons.
Speaker 3: But that's like a new thing because when I was
Speaker 3: growing up and all through high school, the current president
Speaker 3: of the church and the prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, he
Speaker 3: was all proud of it, and he had an entire
Speaker 3: campaign called Meet the Mormons and Mormon dot org and
Speaker 3: they had tired documentaries about Mormonism and being proud of
Speaker 3: that name. And then there was kind of some infighting
Speaker 3: between the leadership and when so when Hinkley died and
Speaker 3: the new prophet was sustained Nelson, he went on this
Speaker 3: whole campaign to undo all that and saying that that
Speaker 3: we cannot replace the name of Jesus by nicknames with
Speaker 3: Mormonism and all that, we have to stick with the
Speaker 3: official name. But a lot of that came down to
Speaker 3: just like the legal legalization of the corporate logo and
Speaker 3: name so that they could control their their trademarks and things,
Speaker 3: and when you look into it, actually, but yeah, I
Speaker 3: was born and raised in the in the Mormon Church,
Speaker 3: and it was just kind of an interesting thing because
Speaker 3: my like we've talked about how I'm involved in the
Speaker 3: paranormal research and UFOs and abduction studies and all that
Speaker 3: kind of paranormal phenomena, and so being raised as a
Speaker 3: member of the Mormon Church, there was always this divide.
Speaker 3: There was a gulf in between what I was personally
Speaker 3: experiencing in my own life when I would go to
Speaker 3: bed at night, or when I was over at my
Speaker 3: friend's house or whatever that did not fit with kind
Speaker 3: of the teachings and the way that I was taught.
Speaker 3: And I mean, some of it makes sense because Mormonism
Speaker 3: they definitely believe that there is extraterrestrial life and that
Speaker 3: the spirit world and ghosts and the spirits of the
Speaker 3: dead or right here among us, And that was all
Speaker 3: baked into me. Like the Mormon Church, they're very active
Speaker 3: and even doing like temple work and rituals for the
Speaker 3: salvation of dead souls, like all of the big temples
Speaker 3: that they build for billions of dollars. Millions of dollars
Speaker 3: they construct these temples everywhere is specifically for members of
Speaker 3: the church to go in there and to do rituals
Speaker 3: for dead spirits. And they believe that those spirits are
Speaker 3: there witnessing the rituals or participating or even joining in them.
Speaker 3: And so this whole idea from my upbringing that there
Speaker 3: was this invisible spirit world around us, and all of
Speaker 3: that was all kind of baked into me, but that
Speaker 3: still didn't make sense. Like when I would have an
Speaker 3: experience in my bedroom at night what you would consider
Speaker 3: like a classic abduction scenario that didn't jive.
Speaker 1: It didn't really fit.
Speaker 3: The entities that I was encountering didn't make any sense
Speaker 3: to what I was being taught at church.
Speaker 1: And so what happened with that, Like when I would
Speaker 1: have a.
Speaker 3: Sleep paralysis incident, I would wake up like paralyzed in
Speaker 3: my bedroom and I can just look around and I
Speaker 3: would sense that there was like an entity in the corner,
Speaker 3: sometimes even see them and have these whole bizarre experiences.
Speaker 1: And what the church gave me to deal with.
Speaker 3: That, as far as the teachings, was that something was
Speaker 3: wrong with me, like I was a bad kid, like
Speaker 3: I had committed a sin, or I had done something wrong,
Speaker 3: and so these evil spirits were now going to torment me.
Speaker 3: So the advice that I was given when I would
Speaker 3: try to bring this stuff up what was happening was
Speaker 3: basically make sure to say your prayers, read your scriptures,
Speaker 3: and ultimately, for me personally, that was very unreliable and
Speaker 3: didn't prevent anything from happening any of the experiences from
Speaker 3: happening in my life. And then as I got older,
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of the now in my current research.
Speaker 3: When I go out and I study ancient history, the
Speaker 3: Native American indigenous people groups and their clans and teachings,
Speaker 3: and I started looking at that history, I realized that
Speaker 3: the foundations of the Church were in direct conflict with that,
Speaker 3: and that when the Mormon Church, through Brigham Young, moved west,
Speaker 3: they exterminate, exterminated a lot of Native American tribes and
Speaker 3: got involved in the in the trafficking of them and
Speaker 3: slave trading and all that, and so that really was
Speaker 3: in conflict with who I am and my personal beliefs
Speaker 3: and all of that.
Speaker 2: Can I ultimately real quick before I went too far,
Speaker 2: just because I know I have read into it and
Speaker 2: I'm wondering, I've came across something. I'm wondering if maybe
Speaker 2: you happen to know about it. Do you ever remember
Speaker 2: do you know about the Meadow Mountains Massacre?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just like about thirty minute drive from my
Speaker 3: house here. Yeah, I've done a video there before, I've
Speaker 3: even gone and done paranormal investigating in that spot.
Speaker 1: As yeah, a terrible tragedy.
Speaker 3: So what happened was when the when the Mormon Pioneers
Speaker 3: moved west and they set up in the Salt Lake
Speaker 3: Valley that was technically Mexico Territory still it wasn't even
Speaker 3: part of the United States yet, and so they basically
Speaker 3: moved in and the Church inserted themselves right next to
Speaker 3: the Tempanogus tribe, the Ute tribe, the Northern Paiute, and
Speaker 3: the Shish and basically just built a city right in
Speaker 3: the middle of these tribes that had been there for
Speaker 3: ten thirteen thousand years, you know, and started to build
Speaker 3: a community. And they were afraid because their founder, Joseph
Speaker 3: Smith had just been murdered in Carthage prison back in Navu.
Speaker 3: They were afraid that like the army or other haters
Speaker 3: of the Church were going to come into Salt Lake
Speaker 3: Valley and like cause a war or wipe them out
Speaker 3: or whatever. So the Mountain Metals Massacre happened because there
Speaker 3: was a caravan of wagons coming from Arkansas and they
Speaker 3: were headed to California and they were just family of
Speaker 3: you know, gold prospectors, settlers, farmers, and there was women
Speaker 3: and children and everything. But these Mormon pioneers in the
Speaker 3: community out here out north of Islands in Saint George
Speaker 3: and Utah. They saw the caravan coming and thought that
Speaker 3: an assumed that they were enemy scouts or part of
Speaker 3: the US Army coming to scout out the Salt Lake
Speaker 3: Valley to stage in attack. So Brigham Young basically ordered
Speaker 3: a group of soldiers and militia to go down and
Speaker 3: wipe them out, and they did. They basically dressed up
Speaker 3: in costumes and pretended to be the Piute, so they
Speaker 3: dressed up like Native Americans, and then they surrounded the
Speaker 3: wagon train, murdered all the men, assaulted the women, and
Speaker 3: then they separated the women and the men and the kids,
Speaker 3: and then they basically human trafficked and put all the
Speaker 3: kids into families up in Salt Lake City. So there's
Speaker 3: actually living families in the state of Arkansas right now
Speaker 3: who are still upset because there's branches of their family
Speaker 3: that were basically human trafficked and became part of the
Speaker 3: Mormon culture because their children were abducted and raised by
Speaker 3: Mormon families up in Salt Lake.
Speaker 1: And that's not the only time that happened.
Speaker 3: The Battle at Fort Utah was an entire tribe of
Speaker 3: the Tempanogas tribe was completely exterminated, and where that happened
Speaker 3: is exactly where BYU University was built. So when you
Speaker 3: watch Brigham Young football and the BYU football team plays
Speaker 3: football every year, that football stadium is literally built in
Speaker 3: the parking lot right on top of where they slaughtered
Speaker 3: like a band of an entire tribe of Native Americans
Speaker 3: that had been living there for thousands of years. And
Speaker 3: they don't like to talk about that. So when I
Speaker 3: run into that stuff, it didn't fit with who I was.
Speaker 3: But obviously when like when I was a kid growing up,
Speaker 3: I had no idea. So by the time I was
Speaker 3: like eight to ten years old, I was fully in
Speaker 3: the church, believed that it was true, had this entire
Speaker 3: alternative version of what American history even was, who the
Speaker 3: Native American people were. I was raised and taught that
Speaker 3: all people with dark colored skin had brown skin or
Speaker 3: black skin because of a curse, and that they had
Speaker 3: to join the church to relieve the curse and to
Speaker 3: become white again, and all this kind of stuff. But see,
Speaker 3: I was like raised in that culture just like you
Speaker 3: would get raised on an island, and had no idea
Speaker 3: of the outside world. This was before the internet, you know,
Speaker 3: so just like in a little village in Idaho, had
Speaker 3: no idea that any.
Speaker 1: Of that wasn't true.
Speaker 3: So even at a young age, I was doing these
Speaker 3: rituals for the dead in the temple and.
Speaker 1: Involved in service projects for the church.
Speaker 3: And I mean my neighbor family and friends of mine
Speaker 3: were part of the Indian adoption program in the eighties
Speaker 3: when they were still human trafficking Native Americans in the
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties and stuff. And anyway, my whole childhood was
Speaker 3: like basically steeped in that. It took me my whole
Speaker 3: life to kind of figure out that that it wasn't
Speaker 3: true and to kind of get out of it.
Speaker 1: And Mormons don't look at it that way.
Speaker 3: They're like, you can leave any time that you want,
Speaker 3: but there's so many layers and levels of family pressure,
Speaker 3: spiritual pressure, all of that stuff to where it makes
Speaker 3: it almost impossible.
Speaker 1: Like if you leave the church, you're.
Speaker 3: Never going to get into heaven, You're not not going
Speaker 3: to be with your family together forever or any of that.
Speaker 1: There's all these you know, punishments that incur if you leave.
Speaker 3: So technically I'm now as an ex Mormon, considered in
Speaker 3: like an anti Mormon because I'm like against the corruption
Speaker 3: and all the things that happened. But yeah, it's been
Speaker 3: the been an interesting road to try and sort out
Speaker 3: from my childhood all the way up.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we can.
Speaker 3: Talk about any of that that you want. We can
Speaker 3: get into the temple stuff.
Speaker 1: Or the weird some of this. Yeah, participated in question.
Speaker 4: Cool, Yeah, Mike, you go ahead.
Speaker 5: Well, it was just gonna ask about so Salt Lake
Speaker 5: City and I know there's a lot of legends and
Speaker 5: why they settled that area and they were looking for
Speaker 5: ancient civilizations and they believe is it true that they
Speaker 5: believed that that was a place in the ancient past
Speaker 5: that had some huge city on it or something is
Speaker 5: out of a legend.
Speaker 3: Kind of there's some weird levels to that. Like they
Speaker 3: believe that the entire like American continent, North and South America,
Speaker 3: is that the history is completely alternative than what everybody
Speaker 3: else believes. So the Mormon Church, they their primary book
Speaker 3: of scripture is called the Book of Mormon, and I
Speaker 3: don't know if you actually know what that is, but
Speaker 3: basically they believe that while everything was going on in
Speaker 3: the Bible over in the area of like Egypt and
Speaker 3: the Middle East, in Jerusalem, and all the events were
Speaker 3: happening over there during the biblical times that simultaneously there
Speaker 3: had to have been people.
Speaker 1: We're here in the American continent, and where is their
Speaker 1: book of scripture? How come?
Speaker 3: How come like Jesus was only born and visited the
Speaker 3: people over in Israel. How come he didn't visit and
Speaker 3: teach the people? Does he not care about the indigenous
Speaker 3: people here? So the idea is that the founder of Mormonism,
Speaker 3: when he was a young man, was basically guided by
Speaker 3: visions and an angel and actually doing like remote viewing
Speaker 3: with a rock and a hat like a seerstone. He
Speaker 3: was doing occult rituals and channeling these spirits and God
Speaker 3: and angels and all these things. And he claims that
Speaker 3: he was guided to a hillside where this book of
Speaker 3: gold was buried, where these ancient people who lived in
Speaker 3: America buried this book. And it's in upstate New York,
Speaker 3: on the on the hill Camorra they call it. And anyway,
Speaker 3: the story is that so he goes there, follows the
Speaker 3: vision and sure enough finds the book buried in the
Speaker 3: ground in a box and it's a book made of
Speaker 3: gold pages, and it's written in this reformed Egyptian and
Speaker 3: then he uses the rock and a hat and translates
Speaker 3: it from this Egyptian language and reformed mixed Hebrew Egyptian
Speaker 3: into English, and now it's the true history of North
Speaker 3: and South America and the Native American people that he
Speaker 3: found buried in the hillside in upstate New York. And
Speaker 3: the story of that book is supposed to be about
Speaker 3: a family that basically leaves Jerusalem in six hundred BC.
Speaker 3: They build a boat, they come over on the ocean
Speaker 3: land in somewhere like Guatemala, and then they become all
Speaker 3: of the Native Americans, and or not all of them,
Speaker 3: but they used to teach that they were all the
Speaker 3: Native Americans, the principal ancestors, they said. But now they
Speaker 3: just say, oh, they were among the Native Americans. But
Speaker 3: the whole book is supposed to that's what they claim.
Speaker 3: They're one of the lost tribes that Lehi and his
Speaker 3: family came over ended in America. And then as they
Speaker 3: spread there was two groups, like the righteous group and
Speaker 3: the wicked group. Because the family like split in half,
Speaker 3: and the people that became wicked all got cursed with
Speaker 3: brown skin and became the Native Americans.
Speaker 1: That we know today.
Speaker 3: That's the story of the whole book. That's how the
Speaker 3: white people and the brown people through the whole book
Speaker 3: go to war. The white people are the righteous ones,
Speaker 3: the brown people are the ones with the curse. And
Speaker 3: the entire books about the white and the browns fighting
Speaker 3: each other. Yeah, there fights in the uh N fights
Speaker 3: and lamani its, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found that interesting too, with lamb
Speaker 2: in there. I don't know, there was it was there
Speaker 2: was a lot of weird things believing in that. When
Speaker 2: I was looking into when you know, Mormonism started popping
Speaker 2: up and skimwok a Ranch we were recovering Skinwalking Ranch.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of weird things that almost seemed
Speaker 2: like like I wondered if Alista Crowley actually like ripped
Speaker 2: off shit from like Mormons. It was just really weird
Speaker 2: how I started seeing certain things. I was like, this
Speaker 2: connection is uncanny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the same kind of like, uh, well, Joseph Smith
Speaker 3: was doing an Okian magic and the Mormons don't know that.
Speaker 3: Like I didn't realize that until I was out of
Speaker 3: the church a couple of years, and I started looking
Speaker 3: into remote viewing and telepathy and different research like that,
Speaker 3: and I came across.
Speaker 1: Uh Ed Kelly.
Speaker 3: And uh Man, I can't remember the other guy's name, John,
Speaker 3: but they h John Lee, Yeah, and they uh John
Speaker 3: D Yeah, and they John D and Ed Kelly.
Speaker 1: You're right.
Speaker 3: And they developed a Nokian magic where you basically look
Speaker 3: into a crystal ball or a stone, and they uh
Speaker 3: would channel these entities or aliens that they believed were angels,
Speaker 3: and ultimately they ended up cheating on each other's wives.
Speaker 3: One of them went to prison and then died jumping
Speaker 3: out of a window.
Speaker 1: And then all that same thing happened. Joseph Smith con holy.
Speaker 2: Crap, there is some weird there's some weird connections like
Speaker 2: that only crap.
Speaker 3: But a rock and a hat used it, just like
Speaker 3: an Okian magic was channeling to translate ancient texts.
Speaker 2: Just that that I had already realized. Yeah it was.
Speaker 2: He was basically scrying in.
Speaker 3: A hat, scrying in a hat, yeah, and then aimately
Speaker 3: marrying little kids, cheating on his wife, having multiple affairs,
Speaker 3: and then gets murdered jumping out of prison window, just
Speaker 3: like just like Ed Kelly did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And that glass that day, were you using just scrying?
Speaker 5: A lot came from the Aztec Empire, came from on
Speaker 5: a zuma John.
Speaker 1: D Yeah, wasn't it.
Speaker 5: There was a little connection there too.
Speaker 1: It was wasn't it a black obsidian mirror? Yep? I
Speaker 1: think it was a black mirror, like an obsidian mirror.
Speaker 3: Joseph Smith used a brown searstone and the church still
Speaker 3: has it today. The current prophet today, President Nelson, has
Speaker 3: made videos where he's pulled it out and shown it
Speaker 3: on camera and even kind of demonstrated.
Speaker 1: How it used to be used.
Speaker 3: And yeah, so I don't know, maybe Joseph Smith actually
Speaker 3: was doing like remote viewing or a scrying and tapping
Speaker 3: into that occult magic. But the truth is is that
Speaker 3: you're not talking to angels from heaven when you're doing
Speaker 3: that stuff. You're talking to trickster entities, the same kind
Speaker 3: of stuff you run into at same lock a ranch
Speaker 3: and whatnot. That's going to lead you down a certain path,
Speaker 3: to make you think that you're getting answers to your
Speaker 3: questions and like you're the chosen one, and ultimately they
Speaker 3: puff up your ego and then tear you down. It's
Speaker 3: like a whole they call it the trickster phenomenon now,
Speaker 3: and I think that's ultimately what happened to him.
Speaker 4: So I was going to ask you, Carl, like, do
Speaker 4: you still have the sleep paralysis now?
Speaker 3: Did you grow out of that or like, well, it's
Speaker 3: more intentional now, Like now I use the sleep paralysis
Speaker 3: intentionally as a tool. When I was a kid, it
Speaker 3: was something that would just happen to me. I would
Speaker 3: go to bed and I couldn't anticipate it or predict it.
Speaker 3: There was just certain nights where I would have the
Speaker 3: experience and then go like out of body and exceed
Speaker 3: these things and have these encounters. And now I specifically
Speaker 3: do like gateway meditations to initiate those when I have
Speaker 3: the paralysis. It's like a launching point to go out
Speaker 3: of body into.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so you're able to like use it more.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, I'd be very curious to like
Speaker 4: take a pull of Mormons and see how many Mormons
Speaker 4: have suffered from that, because I'm just wondering, like you said,
Speaker 4: they're like, say your prayers more, do this do that?
Speaker 4: I'm like, but are the prayers the thing that is
Speaker 4: opening the door to the entities and to the sleep
Speaker 4: paralysis because maybe you know, if they're set up by
Speaker 4: Joseph Smith and then in tradition like passed down and
Speaker 4: he was, you know, contacting whatever he was contacting, maybe
Speaker 4: it's like just making the problem worse. I don't know,
Speaker 4: it could be saying.
Speaker 3: I found personally that like Mormons are very ritualized, and
Speaker 3: they're very systematic, meaning like even the way that they pray,
Speaker 3: when they pray at church and all that is very patterned,
Speaker 3: like there's a specific beginning, a formula that you follow,
Speaker 3: and like an ending how you're supposed to do it.
Speaker 3: And what I ultimately found was that like the way
Speaker 3: that I was taught to pray in the Mormon Church
Speaker 3: is a lot of like asking, needing, begging kind of,
Speaker 3: and ultimately I've realized is like a negative energy. So
Speaker 3: like if you're into manifestation and stuff like that, it's
Speaker 3: almost like a roadblock. So the way that Mormons teach
Speaker 3: you to pray, it's almost more like a deadener or
Speaker 3: a roadblock. As soon as I got out of that
Speaker 3: and started doing more like transcendental meditation, it changed everything
Speaker 3: that was way more connected than the Mormon prayer was
Speaker 3: for me, you.
Speaker 2: Know, it's interesting that you say that, Sorry, it's interrupted
Speaker 2: to reason. It's interestingly did you say that, because you know,
Speaker 2: I've made kind of comments about that with doing rituals
Speaker 2: in magic. You know, if I'm going to be constantly
Speaker 2: invoking like Hath or toth risis and asking them to
Speaker 2: do something and like giving them stuff and you know,
Speaker 2: talking to them for twenty minutes, you know, this big
Speaker 2: poetic thing I'm asking you to help me with, Like,
Speaker 2: am I still a slave?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean that's kind of the thing is, like I
Speaker 3: realize there's these certain tricks in a lot of organized
Speaker 3: religion that are.
Speaker 1: Difficult to catch.
Speaker 3: Like you're raised as a child in our culture like
Speaker 3: that faith and hope are these good things. They're positive
Speaker 3: energies in your life, like to keep up your hope
Speaker 3: and keep up your faith. But ultimately, if you're in
Speaker 3: a cult, being faithful is equal to being gullible.
Speaker 1: It's not a good thing.
Speaker 3: Like being faithful is just being gullible at a certain level.
Speaker 3: And hoping and hoping is also a certain level of
Speaker 3: begging and needing and lacking, and ultimately you're just projecting
Speaker 3: out an energy of not having it and needing it
Speaker 3: and wanting it, when really what faith is supposed to
Speaker 3: be is having full confidence that God in the universe
Speaker 3: has got you. Don't worry, move forward and be confident
Speaker 3: and trust. You're not supposed to even need to beg
Speaker 3: or hope or want or feel like you're missing out.
Speaker 3: Like if you just get up in the morning and
Speaker 3: know that the universe and the fates are in your
Speaker 3: favor and that God is on your side, then why
Speaker 3: are you even worried? You know, why are you even
Speaker 3: asking for anything? Nothing can ever be out of place.
Speaker 3: Everything is just how it's supposed to be right, like
Speaker 3: there's no mistakes if you're really faithful. And so somehow
Speaker 3: they invert it and they turn it into this kind
Speaker 3: of neediness, and then they say, well, we're the ones
Speaker 3: that can give you the solutions. You come through us
Speaker 3: and do our rituals, pay our tithing, and be worthy
Speaker 3: within our pyramid, and that's how you how you resolve
Speaker 3: that guilt and how you feel better.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So they try to make you feel broken and then
Speaker 3: they are the ones that can give you the solution,
Speaker 3: like a hospital that wants to keep you sick.
Speaker 4: Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, I just put uh just
Speaker 4: put in the chat. The passage from the Gospel of
Speaker 4: Mark chapter eleven, is like Jesus saying, therefore, I tell
Speaker 4: you whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you
Speaker 4: have received it, and it will be yours. So it's
Speaker 4: like we're saying, Carlice, to already have the certainty and
Speaker 4: trust of what you've asked. Like trust and surrender is
Speaker 4: very difficult.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's surrendering and just fully trusting that you've got
Speaker 3: it already. It's already destined, like there's nothing can be
Speaker 3: out of place, and that's what faith is supposed to be.
Speaker 3: And yeah, somehow they invert that and make it like
Speaker 3: there's holes in you and so you've got to rely
Speaker 3: upon them and it creates codependence instead.
Speaker 4: Yeah see that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that was like my whole childhood, like from
Speaker 3: the time I was eight all the way up. You know,
Speaker 3: like they do baptisms on kids when you're eight years old,
Speaker 3: so they don't wait for you to be an adult
Speaker 3: and choose your own faith. Like when you're eight, you
Speaker 3: go an interview with the bishop that you go down
Speaker 3: the checklist and then you're baptized. But when they do that,
Speaker 3: you know they do rituals where they they insert the
Speaker 3: Holy Ghost into your subconscious where they give you blessings.
Speaker 3: And after the ritual, like the priests put their hands
Speaker 3: on your head and they even say, like I say,
Speaker 3: unto you, receive the Holy ghosts. And the ideas is
Speaker 3: that the Holy Ghost, this unnamed unknown personage then basically
Speaker 3: enters you, like possesses you, and is an aspect of
Speaker 3: God or the spirit of God that basically watches you
Speaker 3: twenty four seven, reads your thoughts or emotions and all
Speaker 3: of that and reports back to God. So it's like
Speaker 3: you're embedded with a spiritual like a spy inside your subconscious.
Speaker 3: So basically, from a time I was eight years old
Speaker 3: all the way up, it was taught to me that
Speaker 3: instead of just having my own thoughts and emotions in
Speaker 3: my head, there's this extra entity or spirit there that's
Speaker 3: always watching over me.
Speaker 1: Always.
Speaker 3: They're always analyzing and testing whether I'm faithful or not.
Speaker 3: And so it's like you have this little Jiminy cricket
Speaker 3: you know, from the church that's in your subconscious, like
Speaker 3: checking you whether you're you're taking all your steps right,
Speaker 3: whether you're you're being a good boy, you know. And
Speaker 3: to me like even that when I got out of
Speaker 3: the church as an adult, started learning meditation and realizing, like,
Speaker 3: all those thoughts and emotions in my head are just
Speaker 3: like an energy that I can go quiet, or I
Speaker 3: can turn on and off, or actually guide and controlled.
Speaker 3: And suddenly it's like, okay, so there's not all these
Speaker 3: invisible spirits and entities inside of me and attached to me,
Speaker 3: and the thoughts in my head aren't different voices.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a counterfeit skitz of.
Speaker 3: Frind of it almost, where you have a thought in
Speaker 3: your head and you don't know if it's coming from
Speaker 3: the Holy Ghost, if it's coming from Satan trying to
Speaker 3: trick you, if you're being tempted by evil spirits trying
Speaker 3: to persuade you. And so suddenly it's like you're surrounded
Speaker 3: by all these other things pulling at.
Speaker 1: You, these invisible energies.
Speaker 3: And ultimately, when you get out of the church and
Speaker 3: just like go sit by the river and clear your thoughts,
Speaker 3: you realize all of that is just something that they
Speaker 3: put into your head as a delusion to keep you
Speaker 3: co dependent. Where like, in order to get control of
Speaker 3: your thoughts and emotions, you got to go back and
Speaker 3: keep doing the prayers.
Speaker 1: Keep doing the rituals.
Speaker 3: You got to steal, so you've got to follow the
Speaker 3: program or or all of that can get out of whack.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: And it's like it's really similar to scientology, and like
Speaker 3: trying to stay clear.
Speaker 1: Or go clear.
Speaker 3: You know, you have to go you use the e
Speaker 3: meters and constantly do interviews and make sure you're not
Speaker 3: possessed by a theta, a bad theta entity inside your subconscious.
Speaker 3: It's very similar, just under different different approach.
Speaker 4: Did you sleep paralysis start at eight?
Speaker 1: I think my whoa, it did? See whoa? Yeah, they
Speaker 1: put it in you.
Speaker 4: There you go. That's what happened.
Speaker 1: The first incident I had I was ten.
Speaker 3: The first I was actually at a friend's house and
Speaker 3: him and I had an abduction encounter together. And then
Speaker 3: after that experience, I started having sleep paralysis.
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm just saying you're.
Speaker 3: Right, so maybe something like that, because I mean, I
Speaker 3: do believe that there is other dimensions of reality alongside
Speaker 3: of us. I do believe that there are spirits of
Speaker 3: the dead and consciousness that exists in invisible realms around us.
Speaker 3: I do believe that, and I still go out and
Speaker 3: I'm involved in that in my work. But when you
Speaker 3: put it into the context where like your dad and
Speaker 3: your religious leaders are all standing around you and putting
Speaker 3: one of those spirits inside of you as an eight
Speaker 3: year old kid, I mean, that's gonna change the way
Speaker 3: you see.
Speaker 4: The world, you know, ye, well, and they're literally calling
Speaker 4: it into existence and giving it permission, like the spirit
Speaker 4: wal I think is very legalistic. So that's a direct order,
Speaker 4: say a Okay, I don't know, and so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'd have those sleep proalysis incidents and then
Speaker 3: I'm like, so what is this?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: This isn't the Holy ghost, This isn't like my my
Speaker 3: great grandpa or an angel. This is like a goblin
Speaker 3: showing up and dragging me down a tunnel, you know,
Speaker 3: like or aliens taking me on a spaceship.
Speaker 1: How does this make any sense?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: I didn't. It never made any sense with what I
Speaker 1: was taught at church. Never did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, wild.
Speaker 3: You know what's interesting though, is that at a core
Speaker 3: of the beliefs in Mormonism, when you when you're really
Speaker 3: a member and you actually know, uh, the God of
Speaker 3: Mormonism is actually a man and he was a man
Speaker 3: that just like you and I a normal mortal human
Speaker 3: being that lived on another planet in a in a
Speaker 3: star system where their son is called Kolob, and so
Speaker 3: it's like another planet out in the Solar system. So
Speaker 3: technically the god of Mormonism is an alien man named
Speaker 3: Elo him and he lives in the Kolob star system,
Speaker 3: and he talks to the prophet through a rock and
Speaker 3: a hat technically, and he's an alien, you know, technically
Speaker 3: he's you know, so it's it's all, it's all kind
Speaker 3: of in there, maybe.
Speaker 4: Sending the drones over New Jersey too, But I don't know.
Speaker 2: You know, this this is really interesting because I believe
Speaker 2: it in that I never actually knew like the full
Speaker 2: idea behind quatsic coodle. Now I do know, And then
Speaker 2: this is maybe maybe you can shed some light on
Speaker 2: this as well. I do know, me and a color
Speaker 2: of a couple other cult rejects are like stuck on
Speaker 2: trying to figure this out. Do you know what the
Speaker 2: deal is with I know in some Mormons, maybe it's
Speaker 2: like an offshoot of a certain belief or maybe more
Speaker 2: evolved like involved in like Freemasons, and are Mormons the
Speaker 2: idea with them in quatsaicotal I like, I've even came
Speaker 2: across tours where it's just for Mormons to go to
Speaker 2: the pyramid, and now thinking about how Quatza Cotals showed
Speaker 2: up to that tribe, I'm like, well, that's not too
Speaker 2: far off. How they're how Mormons are viewing their dude,
Speaker 2: some guy that came from in the sky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: So they think that the legend of Catziquattal is from
Speaker 3: when Jesus came after his resurrection and visited the people
Speaker 3: of the city.
Speaker 1: Of Zarahimla in the Book of Mormon.
Speaker 3: So they believe that in Guatemala where all those Mayan
Speaker 3: and Aztec temples are built, where they worship Cetzequal, they
Speaker 3: think that that is the ancient city of Zara Himla
Speaker 3: from the Book of Mormon, that the that the Knee
Speaker 3: Fights from the Book of Mormon built.
Speaker 2: And then the Lamanites came down through Canada, right, is
Speaker 2: that correct?
Speaker 3: They the Lamanites came over on the same boat as
Speaker 3: the fights. They were all brothers and then they had
Speaker 3: a fight in the family and half of the brothers
Speaker 3: split off.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they once like went towards Florida, right, I
Speaker 2: think even.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so well, yeah, Ultimately the Lamanites killed off all
Speaker 3: the knee fights and then became the native and then
Speaker 3: later Columbus shows up and settles the Ledger, you know,
Speaker 3: but and Brigham Young. But yeah, the idea is that
Speaker 3: they believe they're looking for any kind of evidence for
Speaker 3: the Book of Mormon to be valid. So they're going
Speaker 3: to say, where is their evidence of the Lamanites, Like,
Speaker 3: where's the evidence of nee fights? And can we see
Speaker 3: where it talks about these big cities that were built
Speaker 3: where they had chariots and horses with helmets and swords,
Speaker 3: and they had battles. And so they're looking around in
Speaker 3: the archaeology and the ancient history for any proof of that,
Speaker 3: because it's Joseph Smith, you know, translated that out of
Speaker 3: the Gold Books. So it's got to be there somewhere
Speaker 3: if it's real. So when they see, oh, there's this
Speaker 3: legend of the flying serpent that came and visited and
Speaker 3: he was like the god of the heaven and the earth,
Speaker 3: they just say that must have been Jesus. That when
Speaker 3: when he was crucified in Jerusalem and then three days
Speaker 3: later was resurrected, they believe that he not only appeared
Speaker 3: to his apostles there, but he also came and appeared
Speaker 3: to his Christian believers in America, and so that became
Speaker 3: the legend of Cetzequatdal And like then, but then why
Speaker 3: is it a giant dragon with feathers? You know, like like,
Speaker 3: why is it so metaphorical?
Speaker 1: And it's they do the same thing here.
Speaker 3: There's the legend of of EOTOI and these ancient shaman
Speaker 3: of the paiut To, the Navajo and the Anasazi people.
Speaker 3: And they'll do church tours, Mormon tours where dozens of
Speaker 3: people will show up at these ancient petroglyphs sites, like
Speaker 3: on the summer solstice, and they gather around the rocks
Speaker 3: and they pretend like the ancient petroglyphs are stories about
Speaker 3: Jesus coming and visiting the people. But I'm like them,
Speaker 3: why does he have like devil horns and a tale?
Speaker 3: And why is he like using magic? And why do
Speaker 3: all most of the Native American people disagree with that?
Speaker 1: You know, they have.
Speaker 3: Their own character names and clans and types what the
Speaker 3: petroglyphs mean. But Mormons are desperate to find evidence and
Speaker 3: proof that the Book of Mormon is legitimate and actually happened.
Speaker 3: So anytime they can find a culture or a place
Speaker 3: or an artifact that seems to fit at all, they're like,
Speaker 3: we got it, you know, and they feel like that's
Speaker 3: a victory. If somebody finds anything that looks like the
Speaker 3: hilt of a sword or what could be a wagon
Speaker 3: wheel from a chariot, like an archaeology, even if it's
Speaker 3: not the right timeline or anything, they freak out and
Speaker 3: publish stuff like this might be evidence of the Book
Speaker 3: of Mormon, you know. And so that's what that all is.
Speaker 3: The kets A Quaddal and all that they think it's Jesus.
Speaker 3: They think that Jesus came to the Americas, and that's
Speaker 3: the representation of it.
Speaker 1: But none of the.
Speaker 3: None of the glyphs match, the language matches, none of
Speaker 3: the legends, the rituals that the priests, the priests of
Speaker 3: Ketzequaddle were conducting. I mean they were doing human sacrifices
Speaker 3: and all kinds of different stuff. Obviously wasn't Christian, you know,
Speaker 3: Like so they were doing different kinds of just pagan worship.
Speaker 3: And to me, the temple building, like with kets A Quaddle,
Speaker 3: is more of a metaphor of the power and the
Speaker 3: energy of the frequencies of the electromagnetic field of the Earth,
Speaker 3: and what they were trying to tap into through their
Speaker 3: temple structures and through their rituals that way, and all
Speaker 3: across the globe and ancient Asian cultures.
Speaker 1: And all of that.
Speaker 3: They have the same feathered dragon, flying serpent type of
Speaker 3: mythos and that all has to do with your consciousness
Speaker 3: through rituals like tapping into the ether, more than it
Speaker 3: has to do with anything with the actual person like appearing.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting, thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just yeah, I never really understood where they came from.
Speaker 2: It's interesting how you said, Like, I guess, you know,
Speaker 2: because they're trying to use the idea of Jesus. I
Speaker 2: think I've even seen daves. For One thing is do
Speaker 2: the moments have a lot of like archaeologists kind of
Speaker 2: people out looking for stuff because it seems like they got.
Speaker 1: There's a few.
Speaker 3: There's a few, and they actually argue a lot with
Speaker 3: each other. Some of them they do because they don't
Speaker 3: have any evidence, and so they're scrapping for breadcrumbs around.
Speaker 1: You know. There's there's certain.
Speaker 3: Experts at Buyu and in the church, and even the
Speaker 3: members that are convinced, you know that the artifacts and
Speaker 3: the events of the Book of Mormon all happened down
Speaker 3: in Central South America, like in Guatemala, up through Mexico
Speaker 3: and all that. But then you're like, well, then how
Speaker 3: did the book wind up in upstate New York for
Speaker 3: Joseph Smith to go find the Gold Book in New York.
Speaker 3: So then there's these other people that believe that what
Speaker 3: they call the Homeland theory, which is that all the
Speaker 3: events of the Book of Mormon happened up around the
Speaker 3: Great Lakes, like up around New York, the Finger Lakes,
Speaker 3: Niaim and Canada, and that actually happened up there. But
Speaker 3: there's the problem is because the Book of Mormon describes
Speaker 3: these giant cities and when you go to upstate New
Speaker 3: York and during that timeline, all you find is artifacts
Speaker 3: for the Hope Well and the Adena people. During that time,
Speaker 3: the indigenous people that were literally just hunting rabbits, living
Speaker 3: in grass huts like the mound builders, right, So they
Speaker 3: were like building mounds and they were simple people. They
Speaker 3: never did metallurgy, they never had horses, they never went
Speaker 3: to war with chariots and swords, or they never built
Speaker 3: giant cities or anything. So if it happened up around
Speaker 3: the Great Lakes, there's no archaeology to support that. So
Speaker 3: then they say, well, it must have been down in
Speaker 3: South America where all these Aztec and Mayan temples are,
Speaker 3: must be down there. But then it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: For when the founders of the church found all of
Speaker 3: the gold plates and the sword and things like that
Speaker 3: they claim they found up in New York, how would
Speaker 3: it get all.
Speaker 1: The way up there.
Speaker 3: So there's all these gaps and arguments. They honestly truly
Speaker 3: do not even know where anything happened, because it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: The Book of Mormon is completely fictional, and so this
Speaker 3: alternative history, you might as well just get the the
Speaker 3: book Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings and
Speaker 3: then go looking around like, yeah, you find someplace, You
Speaker 3: find someplace that sounds or feels like it might be Hobbiton,
Speaker 3: or it might be the shire where the Hobbits came from,
Speaker 3: and so there's oh, it must be true, you know,
Speaker 3: like you might as well go look for Hogwarts and
Speaker 3: Harry Potter. It's not it's not real, you know, So
Speaker 3: it's a fictional history.
Speaker 1: And so they're looking into they're.
Speaker 3: Looking into actual history and archaeology and trying to force
Speaker 3: fit it and it just doesn't fit.
Speaker 2: Ye, Like if the whole stone thing in the head
Speaker 2: is all a bunch of bullshit, and I mean that
Speaker 2: you don't even it doesn't matter who, who went where,
Speaker 2: then does it?
Speaker 3: It doesn't I mean, I mean, and they've even proven
Speaker 3: that most of the parts of the Book of Mormon
Speaker 3: are just plagiarized. I mean, you can even use chat GPT,
Speaker 3: you can use AI now, you can plug in sections
Speaker 3: of that book and it can it can reference and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: this section was most likely plagiarized from a section of
Speaker 3: the Greek publication of the Bible that was published in
Speaker 3: the eighteen hundreds. Obviously wasn't written in five hundred BC,
Speaker 3: Like obviously it wasn't written from reformed Egyptian and none
Speaker 3: of that makes sense. And like obviously there's no gold book.
Speaker 3: The church doesn't have the gold plates, doesn't have the
Speaker 3: doesn't have any of the artifacts.
Speaker 1: All that's just imaginary.
Speaker 3: Like they claim that angels came and took it back,
Speaker 3: Like after they finished translating the book, some angel appeared
Speaker 3: and took everything so there's no evidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know before when I was asking about it,
Speaker 2: if there was a lot of archaeologists. It's something I
Speaker 2: thought was interesting, is that I think there were there
Speaker 2: was these archaeologists that were over around before the Mormons
Speaker 2: came over here, and they found something that they were
Speaker 2: trying to trying to say that this was proof that
Speaker 2: the Mormons were here too. And it was like some
Speaker 2: some like I think like two pillared brick looking thing
Speaker 2: that they said they thought had written on it. Have
Speaker 2: you ever heard of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like NHM or something like that. They think
Speaker 3: that there's a city in the Book of Mormon when
Speaker 3: the family left Jerusalem and tried to flee the wars
Speaker 3: in six hundred BC, and the Bible and the Book
Speaker 3: of Jeremiah, that's when the Book of Mormon starts.
Speaker 1: Isn't six hundred BC.
Speaker 3: The idea is that this family left Jerusalem and on
Speaker 3: their travels when they got to the coast where they
Speaker 3: built a boat and then came over to the Americas.
Speaker 3: One of the places that they stopped was the city
Speaker 3: of Naholm. And so when people have gone back and
Speaker 3: looked and looked and looked for evidence of like where
Speaker 3: these places in the Book of Mormon may have been.
Speaker 3: They found one place where there was like a stone
Speaker 3: that had the letters NHM on there. So they were like,
Speaker 3: in Hm must have been Nayholm.
Speaker 1: That must be it. This is the truth.
Speaker 3: And they don't look at the fact that likes and
Speaker 3: other points of evidence say that that's not true. That's impossible,
Speaker 3: and there's no way that a family of like five
Speaker 3: people built built a boat and then crossed the entire
Speaker 3: Atlantic Ocean.
Speaker 1: You know, there's just like, it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you real quick too, what's
Speaker 2: your what's your thought? What's if I remember correctly, what's
Speaker 2: your thought on the glowing rocks that they used to
Speaker 2: actually guide themselves to get here? Isn't that? How isn't
Speaker 2: that was? The boats had glowing rocks on the front
Speaker 2: of them, right there was?
Speaker 3: So there was two different voyages, so there was there's
Speaker 3: a the family that came over in six hundred BC.
Speaker 1: But then it gets even deeper.
Speaker 3: They claim that when they got here to the Americas,
Speaker 3: that they found the ruins of another civilization of people
Speaker 3: called the Jaredites, and those are all the Polynesian people,
Speaker 3: And so the Jaredites are the Polynesian people from the
Speaker 3: and the New Zealanders and all of that, and the Maori,
Speaker 3: and basically they were in South America like the Olmec,
Speaker 3: they believe, or the Jaredies, and they believe that they
Speaker 3: were here first, like two thousand years before.
Speaker 1: That first group came on a.
Speaker 3: Boat and they were here, and they they got here
Speaker 3: on submarines. They weren't actually boats. They built solid ships
Speaker 3: and said they were sealed like a dish. And then
Speaker 3: the prophet basically went and picked up rocks and prayed
Speaker 3: to God, and then the finger of God touched the
Speaker 3: rocks and made them glow so they could go inside
Speaker 3: the submarines with no light without burning a fire and
Speaker 3: cross the ocean.
Speaker 1: And have light to see.
Speaker 3: And they even claim that the submarines worked that when
Speaker 3: they would roll over in the ocean that whichever cork
Speaker 3: was in the top, they could basically pull the plug
Speaker 3: out to breathe are and then plug it back.
Speaker 1: The story. But yeah, God touched rocks.
Speaker 3: And made them glow like a light, and that's how
Speaker 3: they could see in the dark inside the submarine. They
Speaker 3: cross wooden submarines, that's how they cross.
Speaker 2: The ocean, pressive, impressive stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no evidence of that anywhere. I mean, there's
Speaker 3: legitimate archaeologists that have gone I mean they've done thousands
Speaker 3: of core drilling samples where like you can go down
Speaker 3: and to Guatemala and you can go to a lake
Speaker 3: and drill a core sample in the bottom of a lake,
Speaker 3: and the layers of sediment in the lake you can
Speaker 3: see like every year, the plant life that was there
Speaker 3: and the animals and stuff, because the pollen floats out
Speaker 3: on the water and then sinks to the bottom and
Speaker 3: settles in layers just like tree rings. So they can
Speaker 3: do core samples in lakes and pull it up and
Speaker 3: they can say, look, nobody in the region of Guatemala.
Speaker 3: They weren't growing wheat. They weren't growing they weren't doing
Speaker 3: all these things at the Book of Mormon claims that
Speaker 3: they were doing. There's zero evidence for that, but they
Speaker 3: don't care. They're just holding on in with that faith,
Speaker 3: that false hope that someday it'll all come out, it'll
Speaker 3: all be proven, the artifacts will be revealed, you know,
Speaker 3: and they just won't because it's fictional.
Speaker 2: There you go, there, you know what I wanted to
Speaker 2: ask your opinion on too well one is it true?
Speaker 2: I have two questions. I guess it's about Joseph Smith
Speaker 2: when he uh when I guess when he died. Didn't
Speaker 2: he supposedly have like the Jupiter sigel, like they kind
Speaker 2: of pinned on his clothes or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he had a whole a magical parchment in
Speaker 3: his chest pocket. Yeah, it was like I had all
Speaker 3: these sigils and stuff and you know, magic symbols and
Speaker 3: writings all over it. And uh, Brigham Young has like
Speaker 3: a blood talisman that he wears. There's pictures of him
Speaker 3: wearing it. And they were all also Freemasons, So the
Speaker 3: Mormon Church were Freemasons. Like Joseph Smith's older brother was
Speaker 3: named Hiram.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: His dad named him Hiram after Hiram Abiff from the
Speaker 3: origin stories of the Masonic lodges. So Joseph Smith's dad,
Speaker 3: Joseph Smith Senior, he really wanted to become a member
Speaker 3: of the Masonic lodge like the Woodsman's Masons in Upstate
Speaker 3: New York, and they would never accept him as a
Speaker 3: member because he was an alcoholic and they didn't want him.
Speaker 1: He was like.
Speaker 3: Scamming people and doing treasure digging and had kind of
Speaker 3: a bad reputation. But Joseph Smith Senior was so obsessed
Speaker 3: his dad with being a mason, a freemason, that he
Speaker 3: named his son Alvin and Hiram and Joseph, and he
Speaker 3: made friends with this guy named Luman Walters that taught
Speaker 3: them all the scrying, the Enochia magic.
Speaker 1: So this guy.
Speaker 3: Luhman came over from England, made friends with Joseph Smith's
Speaker 3: family and then got them into using the magic searstones
Speaker 3: and doing all that kind of stuff. But yeah, Joseph
Speaker 3: Smith from the time he was a little kid all
Speaker 3: the way up was taken out and doing occult rituals.
Speaker 3: They would pretend, like Joseph Smith when he was a
Speaker 3: little boy, could use the magic rock and see where
Speaker 3: buried treasure was. So they were in the business of
Speaker 3: scamming the locals. So they would this is what they
Speaker 3: would do, and they even got arrested for it and
Speaker 3: like went to trial as a family. Because they would
Speaker 3: basically go to like a wealthy farmer. They would sneak
Speaker 3: in his barn at night and like steal a saddle
Speaker 3: out of the barn and go hide it somewhere and
Speaker 3: then they would be like, show up in town and
Speaker 3: be like, hey, we can find missing objects or look
Speaker 3: for buried treasure. You've got all this, you know, one
Speaker 3: hundred acres of farmland. If there's any ancient native artifacts here,
Speaker 3: we can find him for you. And then Joseph Smith
Speaker 3: would put the rock in the hat. First thing he would.
Speaker 1: Say, is is your saddle missing?
Speaker 3: And they were the ones that stole it and hit it,
Speaker 3: you know, and the farm be like, yeah, I've been
Speaker 3: missing my saddle for three days and be like So
Speaker 3: Joseph would put the rock in the hat, put his
Speaker 3: face in the hat, and he would claim that he
Speaker 3: would see a vision the saddle is behind a rock
Speaker 3: out in the field if someone came and took it.
Speaker 3: And then so the farmer would go be like, he's right,
Speaker 3: no way. So then they would hire him. Sure, we'll
Speaker 3: give you food and board. We're going to trust this
Speaker 3: little kid, Joseph to use the rock in the hat
Speaker 3: and he's gonna find buried treasure. And so they would
Speaker 3: live there and get paid, get fed money, get fed food,
Speaker 3: and have.
Speaker 1: A place to stay. And they would go out.
Speaker 3: At night with the magic rock and they would put
Speaker 3: pentagrams on the ground and Joseph Smith would claim there
Speaker 3: was buried treasure there. They would sacrifice dogs, chickens, sheep,
Speaker 3: or goats or whatever and spray the blood around, and
Speaker 3: then they would try to dig out the treasure and
Speaker 3: claim that they could find it, and then they obviously
Speaker 3: never found anything. So after they would fail two or
Speaker 3: three times, the farmer would get mad kick them off
Speaker 3: the land, and then ultimately two or three of these
Speaker 3: farmers would talk to each other and be like, these
Speaker 3: guys are scamming us, and would press charges and take
Speaker 3: them to court, and the family had to move several times.
Speaker 3: And ultimately, after they got kicked out of several communities
Speaker 3: for doing this kind of conning and scamming, they came
Speaker 3: up with the idea to do a religious scam and
Speaker 3: claim that instead of finding a buried treasure, they would
Speaker 3: find a book of gold and publish the book, and
Speaker 3: that started the entire church. It was just another one
Speaker 3: of their treasure digging scams that actually finally worked.
Speaker 2: Damn wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was completely full of magic rituals. The whole
Speaker 3: time they were doing scrying using magic rocks, claiming they
Speaker 3: had magic glasses, angels appearing all that stuff. Wow, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 5: Pretty crazy there, sacrifice and animals.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that not very many people do. You
Speaker 3: have to go look at the affidavids. You have to
Speaker 3: read the books that the members of the church that
Speaker 3: were there that left the church when they realized it,
Speaker 3: they wrote about it. And there's even the court reports,
Speaker 3: you know, when they were prosecuted and basically told to
Speaker 3: leave communities and get out.
Speaker 1: You can go look it all up.
Speaker 3: But yeah, and the farmers that got scammed, they wrote
Speaker 3: about it and even published it in the newspaper about
Speaker 3: how they got tricked and how the Smith family scammed them.
Speaker 3: But that kind of pattern just continued, using occult rituals
Speaker 3: and magic rituals claiming to find secret Native American artifacts
Speaker 3: and things that basically just finally clicked and turned into
Speaker 3: an entire religion. I think when they moved to the
Speaker 3: right community, they had a few people like Martin Harris
Speaker 3: and Sidney rigged In and Oliver Cowdrey, a few people
Speaker 3: that had money and a little bit of intelligence that
Speaker 3: joined in on the scheme. Then suddenly they were able
Speaker 3: to pull it off and convince a bunch of people.
Speaker 2: Now, I also wanted to ask to do you think
Speaker 2: it's possible. I'm just thinking now, I mean, maybe they
Speaker 2: weren't in this mind frame, and maybe only I'm thinking
Speaker 2: like this because I'm in the future. But like I
Speaker 2: would assume it was a lot easier to commit a
Speaker 2: crime maybe back then, like or no or faked death?
Speaker 2: Really put it that way, because were they doing dental records?
Speaker 2: I mean, like like what were they using? I mean,
Speaker 2: did they have fingerprints? Like what technology did they really
Speaker 2: have to prove? Is that really Joseph Smith dead phone
Speaker 2: after getting shot in the face too, right and falling
Speaker 2: out the window. I'm just wondering, do you think it
Speaker 2: might be possible he faked his death too?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 3: I never thought of that, except for the fact that
Speaker 3: I mean there was like a whole mob of like
Speaker 3: two hundred people there and.
Speaker 2: The Grays, right, they called them with something, which I
Speaker 2: find interesting, Right, what's that? Weren't they called the grays
Speaker 2: the militia was like a militia call the Grays. I
Speaker 2: found that too, because I'm like, then back to aliens.
Speaker 1: Oh, I could have been I don't know.
Speaker 2: Oh, you can't get away from aliens. To the womans.
Speaker 3: Most of the people in the mob that showed up
Speaker 3: at the prison and murdered Joseph Smith and his brother
Speaker 3: were their families, like their wives or daughters, were victims
Speaker 3: of the polygamy scam, so they're like a lot of
Speaker 3: those guys. They were members of the church, and Joseph
Speaker 3: Smith had assigned them to go serve a mission in
Speaker 3: England for five years. So they would go on a
Speaker 3: boat over to England as a missionary, and while they
Speaker 3: were gone, Joseph Smith would secretly marry himself to their
Speaker 3: wife or their daughter and then claim possession of their
Speaker 3: land as the steward of their property and land.
Speaker 1: And then if they came home.
Speaker 3: And were like, hey, why are you stealing my wife,
Speaker 3: Why did you try to marry and sleep with my
Speaker 3: fifteen year old daughter or whatever, and they would throw
Speaker 3: a complaint. Joseph Smith would just excommunicate them for not
Speaker 3: having faith, for not believing in the in the prophet
Speaker 3: season whatnot. They would the men would get kicked out.
Speaker 3: That happened enough times in enough places that the mob
Speaker 3: finally formed when they had him cornered in the prison
Speaker 3: and gathered around and lynched him. You know, they they
Speaker 3: stormed up the stairs and shot him. He tried to
Speaker 3: jump out the window and they they killed him outside
Speaker 3: the prison.
Speaker 2: Oh that's what it was, really quick. I just want
Speaker 2: to correct myself. The Grays was actually I find this
Speaker 2: kind of funny. I don't know why you would use
Speaker 2: these people. They were anti warnings. They were called the
Speaker 2: Carthage Grays, and they were a local militia that was
Speaker 2: actually a sign to protect Joseph Smith, to make sure nobody.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know why you would use people
Speaker 2: that already against him to supposedly protect his ass. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's kind of a silly situation in itself. So I
Speaker 2: guess they probably just let them on the fuckers walking.
Speaker 1: That's what happened. Yeah, that's right. I forgot that part.
Speaker 3: So yeah, the Grays were like the militia that were
Speaker 3: put in charge of guarding the prison and basically when
Speaker 3: the mob shut up, they fired a couple of shots
Speaker 3: in the air for pretend, and then they just opened
Speaker 3: the door and let the mob come.
Speaker 1: In because they went along with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you're right, like think about this, like, not
Speaker 3: only could you trick and deceive a lot of people
Speaker 3: really easily back then, but I mentioned Lumen Walters this
Speaker 3: guy that came over from England and taught the Smith
Speaker 3: family scrying and noki and magic, but he was also
Speaker 3: an expert in psychedelic tinctures and he knew and was
Speaker 3: farming magic mushrooms. And so how would you know back then,
Speaker 3: in like eighteen forty two or whatever, when when you
Speaker 3: would go to church at the Smith Church, you know,
Speaker 3: Joseph Smith's church and take the sacrament, how do you
Speaker 3: know they weren't dosing people with lum and Walter's psychedelics.
Speaker 3: There's a whole story at the Kirtland Temple where they
Speaker 3: all gathered together for church one day and they took sacrament.
Speaker 3: One guy showed up to the meeting late and he
Speaker 3: wrote in his journal that they gave him a piece
Speaker 3: of sacrament bread that was like the size of his fists,
Speaker 3: and we're like, hurry, you eat this.
Speaker 1: And sit down and join the meeting.
Speaker 3: And everyone had visions like the building was on fire.
Speaker 3: People were rolling around on the floor like they were possessed,
Speaker 3: and they claimed that they saw visions of like God
Speaker 3: and Jesus and angels appear in the temple. I'm like,
Speaker 3: it's pretty obvious when you go back and read that
Speaker 3: story that they were just you know, drugging the members
Speaker 3: or dosing them with psychedelics at certain times. And as
Speaker 3: a member of the church back then with no Internet,
Speaker 3: no understandings of psychedelics or any of that, Like, how
Speaker 3: would you ever deal with that? You would be completely
Speaker 3: convinced that this guy was a prophet.
Speaker 2: No, you dosed the whole crowd. Oh my god, they
Speaker 2: all think they had show.
Speaker 3: Oh Joseph Smith gets up there and starts preaching, and
Speaker 3: they there was members of the church that swear that
Speaker 3: Joseph Smith transformed into Moses and all the you know,
Speaker 3: like all these things. But obviously Luman Walters was there,
Speaker 3: you know, dosing the sacrament.
Speaker 2: Do you think do you think the regular like normal
Speaker 2: public was even aware of like these types of like hallucinogenics,
Speaker 2: because like I could see like maybe pulling stuff off
Speaker 2: real easy because people don't even know like that's an
Speaker 2: option yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was all the days of snake oil, like
Speaker 3: if you want to get even weird with it, and
Speaker 3: where it gets really dark. Right at that same time
Speaker 3: when they moved into Navo and right when Naboo, Illinois
Speaker 3: and the church really got its foothold Joseph Smith made
Speaker 3: best friends with this guy named John C. Bennett, and
Speaker 3: John C. Bennett was also a chemical expert. If you
Speaker 3: look him up, he's he was like the first American
Speaker 3: innovator of the use of chloroform, and chloroform that's the
Speaker 3: one that you put on their rag cover people and
Speaker 3: knock them out. And also back then, chloroform was the
Speaker 3: earliest version of abortion medicine. So Joseph Smith baptized John C.
Speaker 3: Bennett into the church and then within less than a
Speaker 3: year promoted him all the way to the top to
Speaker 3: where he was first counselor in the church, meaning next
Speaker 3: to him, next to Joseph Smith, Bennett is the next
Speaker 3: in line that's in charge. Basically, he's the number two
Speaker 3: guy in the whole church. And then he moved him
Speaker 3: into his mansion house, so they all lived in the
Speaker 3: same He lived in the house with the prophet, and
Speaker 3: that's when he started polygamy. So he started secretly marrying
Speaker 3: himself spiritually to all these underage girls and other women
Speaker 3: in the community and hiding it from his wife and
Speaker 3: their husbands and everything.
Speaker 1: And he had John C.
Speaker 3: Bennett living right there in the mansion house with him
Speaker 3: and he was the country's leading chloroform abortion doctor. And
Speaker 3: the members of the church are just so naive and
Speaker 3: so faithful to the story that they've been fed that
Speaker 3: they can't fathom that Bennett, that Joseph Smith never had
Speaker 3: any kids and he was never sleeping with those women
Speaker 3: or girls.
Speaker 1: It was all just spiritual.
Speaker 3: But why would you promote a chloroform abortion doctor to
Speaker 3: be your first counselor and let him live in the
Speaker 3: house with you, like it's an obvious And then how.
Speaker 4: Much he needed his services, I guess, like.
Speaker 3: Obviously using chloroform and psychedelics and people that were familiar
Speaker 3: with these compounds to manipulate members of the church. It's
Speaker 3: it's all in there, and they just refused to look
Speaker 3: when when John C. Bennett, when he left the church, Uh,
Speaker 3: he wrote a whole autobiography where he confessed that he
Speaker 3: performed hundreds of abortions in secret in Nauvoo and that
Speaker 3: they threw the bodies of the children in the river,
Speaker 3: like he confessed it in his own book, And the
Speaker 3: members of the church just go then it was he
Speaker 3: was a crook, he was a liar, so you can't
Speaker 3: trust him, Like, well, then why was he living in
Speaker 3: the house. Why was he at the head of the church.
Speaker 3: You know, they were doing some stuff, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: not just magic and magic rituals. They were con men,
Speaker 3: you know, they were straight up crooks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's crazy. I was going to say before, Karl,
Speaker 4: when you were talking about the petroglyphs and like the
Speaker 4: representations of Jesus or like people trying to fit that
Speaker 4: narrative into the petroglyphs and stuff, I was wondering in
Speaker 4: my head. I was like, I wonder if it's like
Speaker 4: the psychedelic Jesus that some people think that they see
Speaker 4: when they're on you know, magic mushrooms or like LSD
Speaker 4: or whatever this like you know, parallel universe, fake Jesus.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, well that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Well, said spot the same spot that they go here
Speaker 3: in southern Utah on the Anasazi Trail, where when I
Speaker 3: was there just this year, a whole group of like
Speaker 3: fifty members of the church showed up and they were
Speaker 3: there trying to say that it was all the story
Speaker 3: of Jesus and the John, the Baptists and all this stuff.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, then, why are all these shaman depicted
Speaker 3: right next to carvings of the deturua flower, which is
Speaker 3: a delirient hallucinogenic you know the Piu, Yeah, the Piute
Speaker 3: and the Goshen tribe. I mean, just two years ago,
Speaker 3: there was a couple of kids from the Goshen tribe
Speaker 3: right over there by the Anasazi trail that died in
Speaker 3: an accident because they did a ritual with detura, with
Speaker 3: the Detua flower, and while they were hallucinating, they drowned in.
Speaker 1: The lake.
Speaker 3: And the psychedelics is part of the negative Native American culture,
Speaker 3: from the Brufo frog to peyote to all of that.
Speaker 1: It's just a part of it. So I mean, but
Speaker 1: they don't talk about that.
Speaker 3: That's just Jesus and John the Battle just obviously came
Speaker 3: here and taught people.
Speaker 1: That's what they say.
Speaker 4: It's so crazy that like you talk about, you know,
Speaker 4: the origins of like kind of the snake oil salesman
Speaker 4: and then like this lst like magic mushroom, don't terra thing,
Speaker 4: because now what now in present day, a lot of Mormons,
Speaker 4: in my experience of like you know, kind of like
Speaker 4: mom culture, what do a lot of Mormons do essential
Speaker 4: oil pyramid schemes, swear to God literally essential oils. And
Speaker 4: one of the companies is called Doughtera. It is it
Speaker 4: is a huge company. And another company, I forget what
Speaker 4: it's called right now. The name is Gaging oh amare
Speaker 4: Amari Global. They sell neurotropics that you put in drinks
Speaker 4: because apparently Mormons are not allowed to drink caffeine.
Speaker 1: You can have caffeine, just not coffee. Oh okay, caffeine.
Speaker 4: And I tried this neurotropic drink. You feel high. Literally
Speaker 4: you are like it's it's crazy. I was like, I
Speaker 4: don't want to feel this way all the time, all day.
Speaker 4: But apparently Mormon moms do.
Speaker 3: Utah is the number one hot spot for pyramid schemes
Speaker 3: by a long shot, but multi level marketing and pyramid
Speaker 3: schemes is huge because the church is a pyramid scheme.
Speaker 1: From the tradition.
Speaker 4: Continues like it's crazy, yeah, right.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and so I mean they start them over everything. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it's built in too, because like like Teresa, let's say,
Speaker 3: if you lived up in Springville, Utah, and you were
Speaker 3: an active member of the church, you end up being
Speaker 3: the release Society president or something. So you're like a
Speaker 3: woman in the local community there that all the other
Speaker 3: women look up to like, Wow, she's like a spiritual person,
Speaker 3: Like she's like a role model for all the women
Speaker 3: in the community. And then you join an ELM, an MLM.
Speaker 1: They all want to start selling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, then everybody's in on it. Andy, It's all just
Speaker 3: like a whole it's built in. You turn around and
Speaker 3: why while you're going and visiting your neighbors and doing
Speaker 3: the church stuff. Anyways, it just naturally flows, right, So
Speaker 3: it's it's.
Speaker 1: All built in there.
Speaker 4: Well, now with social media, that's like how it is.
Speaker 4: It's like you know, oh, the cool mom is doing it,
Speaker 4: so like I want to try it, and I'm going
Speaker 4: to do it, and then your friend does it and
Speaker 4: they want you to join. It's like, holy geez.
Speaker 3: They even package up these pyramid schemes and MLMs into
Speaker 3: into therapeutic counseling and church counseling, and then how they
Speaker 3: build the insurances and they build the church and get
Speaker 3: paid through the church's insurances and everything. Like there's a
Speaker 3: whole whole pseudoscience racket in the MLMs and the way
Speaker 3: that it functions here in Utah.
Speaker 1: It's pretty wild.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's like built in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's in the culture that's so great.
Speaker 2: I did want to ask you, they're kind of like
Speaker 2: just gonna be switching a roof back a little bit
Speaker 2: more back to the occult again. I know there's things
Speaker 2: with Zion, there's ideas with that, but I do I
Speaker 2: think I remember there was like an order called like
Speaker 2: the Elders of Zion that ended up being like Mormons,
Speaker 2: that kind of started like their own society. Is there
Speaker 2: like in an occulted belief amongst some more Mormons about
Speaker 2: like Zion that might be different than the regular story.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's it's the complete end Times doomsday prophecy
Speaker 3: of Zion. So for Mormons, you have Israel and Jerusalem
Speaker 3: is the old center of the Church from the biblical perspective.
Speaker 3: But they believe that when Jesus comes again for his
Speaker 3: second Coming, that he will establish the new Jerusalem in Zion,
Speaker 3: which is in Jackson County, Missouri or Independence, Missouri. They
Speaker 3: believe that the Garden of Eden was in the state
Speaker 3: of Missouri in the United States, that Adam and Eve
Speaker 3: were here in the United States and then spread out
Speaker 3: from there and then came back, that Adam and Eve
Speaker 3: were actually in Missouri.
Speaker 1: They believed that.
Speaker 3: So that when Christ comes again for the Second Coming,
Speaker 3: that he will first appear in Jerusalem and basically say, oh,
Speaker 3: you crucified me, I actually don't know you. And then
Speaker 3: he's going to appear here in America, and then the
Speaker 3: Mormons are going to re establish.
Speaker 1: And rebuild Zion.
Speaker 3: And they're going to do that starting in Independence, Missouri,
Speaker 3: Jackson County, Missouri. There and they even have maps. You
Speaker 3: can go up into Salt Lake and go in the
Speaker 3: church history building. Joseph Smith when he was the founder,
Speaker 3: they were drafting maps for Zion, where the temple was
Speaker 3: going to be built, where the houses would be built,
Speaker 3: how the streets would be lined out.
Speaker 1: And the idea is that.
Speaker 3: Basically the Church would rule the world, that there would
Speaker 3: be one religion, everybody would be Mormon. Jesus would dwell
Speaker 3: on earth and live in Missouri in the Temple, and
Speaker 3: the church would be the center of all political and
Speaker 3: religious power on earth. And they would establish what they
Speaker 3: call the law of Consecration, which is basically Mormon communism
Speaker 3: socialism where you give everything to the church and then
Speaker 3: the church basically only gives you what you need, and
Speaker 3: then everyone will have a perfect life and no problems anymore.
Speaker 3: So this idea of Zion and Zionism is this concept
Speaker 3: that yeah, when the wicked are all burned off the
Speaker 3: earth and Christ will come back again and they'll establish
Speaker 3: the city of Zion and it will be the capital
Speaker 3: of the world and the religious center of the world,
Speaker 3: like the New Mecca. Yeah, but now Zion is in
Speaker 3: your heart and it's wherever you live. That's where Zion is.
Speaker 3: It's like a metaphor now, and they're just waiting for
Speaker 3: Jesus to reappear to burn the world and then rebuild
Speaker 3: the temple in Missouri and then they'll they'll have it
Speaker 3: for real. My grandpa he was even told in a
Speaker 3: blessing that he would live to see Zion built and
Speaker 3: that he would hold a hammer in his hands and
Speaker 3: help construct the temple for Jesus. And then he died
Speaker 3: and none of that came true, and everybody just brushes
Speaker 3: it off, like, Okay, maybe he'll come as a spirit
Speaker 3: or an angel and help build it. That's what they say,
Speaker 3: you know, Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Zion is a real thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they really believe that Zion is a thing. I mean,
Speaker 3: even Zion National Park here is where I live, right
Speaker 3: next to Zion National Park and they named it that after.
Speaker 1: The belief in Zion.
Speaker 3: All the communities in the city here, even the Interstate
Speaker 3: freeway signs are all a beehive. And that is a
Speaker 3: theme of Mormonism, is the symbolism of the beehive that
Speaker 3: comes from freemasonry.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you if you thought that
Speaker 2: might have been a pull off a freemasonry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the queen bee and the hive. The worker bees
Speaker 3: are all out serving uh the queen.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting, that was totally in the mythos.
Speaker 3: They call Utah desret Yeah, like we're supposed to all
Speaker 3: be productive worker bees for the church drones news. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's where that comes from. It comes from the church. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow. Was there any other type of maybe like ritualistic
Speaker 2: things that you maybe remember from like I guess the
Speaker 2: church that you didn't mention.
Speaker 3: Well, like the when I was you know, ten or eleven.
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't understand what goes on in
Speaker 3: the temple.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: When you think about the rituals of the temple, people
Speaker 3: just think that it's like a like another church house
Speaker 3: that you go in and and uh sit and pray
Speaker 3: or whatever. But it is actually very occult and very ritualized,
Speaker 3: like when I went and did baptisms for the dead.
Speaker 3: It's in the basement of the temple. There's a baptismal
Speaker 3: font down and there in the lower levels of the temple,
Speaker 3: the bottom of the baptismal font, there's statues of twelve
Speaker 3: oxen like giant cows with horns, and so you go
Speaker 3: in there and there's a baptismal font on the back
Speaker 3: of all these big cows like the Old Testament or
Speaker 3: something like the ancient Tabernacle.
Speaker 1: Of Israel or whatever.
Speaker 3: And you go up there and they they don't just
Speaker 3: like baptize you once. There's a whole thing where they
Speaker 3: say Carl and race, and having been commission of Jesus Christ,
Speaker 3: I baptized you ford In behalf of Nick. And then
Speaker 3: they would say your name because you were a guy
Speaker 3: who lived and died and never joined the church. So
Speaker 3: we got to baptize you now as a spirit right
Speaker 3: because you didn't do it while you were alive, we
Speaker 3: got to do it while you're dead. And so they
Speaker 3: would say, I baptize you ford In behalf of Nick,
Speaker 3: who is dead, in the name of the Father and
Speaker 3: the Son and the holy ghosts. And then they go
Speaker 3: broke when they dunk you in the water. And then
Speaker 3: immediately Karl and Rason, having been commissioned Christ, I baptize
Speaker 3: you Ford in behalf of Michael who is dead, in
Speaker 3: the name of the Father and the Son and the
Speaker 3: Holy Ghost.
Speaker 1: Amen.
Speaker 3: When they dunk you and you would get baptized thirty
Speaker 3: forty times.
Speaker 1: What it's like, thirty forty.
Speaker 3: Times multiple in a row of rapid baptisms. And then
Speaker 3: you get out of the water wrap in a towel,
Speaker 3: and your best friend gets in the water and he
Speaker 3: gets baptized thirty times. Everybody who's ever lived on the
Speaker 3: Earth's gotta get baptized. That's why they're all in the
Speaker 3: family history.
Speaker 4: You know, wonderproalysis. For man, this is crazy.
Speaker 1: And that's not even the weird ones.
Speaker 3: When you go do the washing and anoint thing, you
Speaker 3: actually like take all your clothes off. You just put
Speaker 3: like a gown on and they anoint you with water
Speaker 3: and oil. They tell you your new spiritual name.
Speaker 1: So like, I'm not Carl. My new name was Hiram.
Speaker 3: And just because I told you that my new name
Speaker 3: is Highram, now I can't get into heaven because that
Speaker 3: was my password. So I just now I can't get
Speaker 3: into because I told you my secret pass.
Speaker 4: Right, So you when I go af there and be
Speaker 4: like high room.
Speaker 3: Yeah you're so you're walking It wouldn't work for you.
Speaker 1: You have a different name.
Speaker 4: Oh right, I have to figure it out.
Speaker 1: I guess like, you'd be like Mary, or you'd be
Speaker 1: like Esther. Yeah, I guess him something that. Yeah, some
Speaker 1: Mormon name. Oh my god, isn't funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, but I mean when you do
Speaker 3: the washing and anointing, you're like walking through white curtains.
Speaker 3: So you like go into this little cubicle made of
Speaker 3: white sheets, sit in this chair, and they wash you
Speaker 3: with water and then oil and all this stuff, and
Speaker 3: you go through another curtain. It's all these white sheets
Speaker 3: hanging everywhere, and you go through these curtains all the
Speaker 3: like you're going through a labyrinth of these white curtains
Speaker 3: and everything. And then they give you the new name
Speaker 3: and blessings, and then you go do the actual endowment,
Speaker 3: and that's where you're learning all the secret handshakes and
Speaker 3: the passwords and the phrases that you need to say
Speaker 3: to get past the guardians at the gates of heaven.
Speaker 3: So you're supposedly learning literally secret occult handshakes like so
Speaker 3: that you can pass through and get into heaven with God.
Speaker 1: And that's the whole ordinance is you're you're sitting there initiations. Initiations, Yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Get a word and a grip every time I did one.
Speaker 1: A word and a grip. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So they tell you this is the first token of
Speaker 3: the Auronic priesthood. And then they come around and everybody
Speaker 3: does the secret handshake with the priests as he walks around,
Speaker 3: and you learn that, and with every handshake there's a
Speaker 3: name and like a secret password, and then there's also
Speaker 3: a sign. So like with this, with this handshake, what
Speaker 3: you do like this, you you have to put your
Speaker 3: disarm at the square in this hand and with a
Speaker 3: cut and then when you do this handshake, you have
Speaker 3: to go like this and.
Speaker 1: Put one hand up on one hand down just in
Speaker 1: front of you.
Speaker 3: And then there's also a password or a phrase that
Speaker 3: goes along with that. And then after you learn all
Speaker 3: of those and you go through the different levels, then
Speaker 3: at the very end you do in occult ritual where
Speaker 3: you do all the secret handshakes. So you stand in
Speaker 3: a circle around an altar. So there's altar, just like
Speaker 3: in freemasonry, they have the altar with the Bible and
Speaker 3: a square and compass on top. You know, they have
Speaker 3: the same thing in the Mormon Temple. It really sounds
Speaker 3: like stand it is. They call it the endowment, the
Speaker 3: endowment ceremony. It's an initiat, the initiation. The initiatory is
Speaker 3: when they when you do the baptism and the washing
Speaker 3: and the anointing and get the new name. That's the initiatory,
Speaker 3: the initiation. And then you do the endowment where you
Speaker 3: learn the passwords and handshakes. So around the altar, you
Speaker 3: stand in a circle like a seance around the altar,
Speaker 3: and you do all the secret handshakes, and then you
Speaker 3: do all the hand signs, and ultimately you're putting your
Speaker 3: arms in the air and chanting, saying, Oh God, hear
Speaker 3: the words of my mouth. Oh God, here are the
Speaker 3: words of my mouth. And you're raising and lowering your
Speaker 3: arms in a big circle around the altar, going, oh God,
Speaker 3: here are the words.
Speaker 1: Of my mouth.
Speaker 3: In the old days, they used to say it in
Speaker 3: a fake language, in a different language that they believe
Speaker 3: that atoms spoke, and they would say, oh peylay ell,
Speaker 3: Oh peley el oh peley ell, and that meant, oh
Speaker 3: God hear my words or whatever, because l el Ohim
Speaker 3: is the alien god from colob or whatever. So oh
Speaker 3: peley el men, God please hear us. So you chant
Speaker 3: around the altar, and then after that ritual's done, then
Speaker 3: one by one you.
Speaker 1: Go up to the veil.
Speaker 3: It's a big white curtain that's across the whole back
Speaker 3: of the room, and you walk up there and this
Speaker 3: guy puts his hand out through a hole in the curtain,
Speaker 3: and you have to do all of the secret handshakes,
Speaker 3: and that's supposed to be like God in heaven. And
Speaker 3: you do all the handshakes and tell him all the
Speaker 3: passwords through the veil. He like quizzes you whether or
Speaker 3: not you remember all the secret handshakes and the signs
Speaker 3: and tokens and passwords and all that, and then if
Speaker 3: you get it all correct, he opens the veil and
Speaker 3: he lets you in the Celestial Room, which is basically
Speaker 3: like the lobby of a hotel.
Speaker 1: That's what it looks like like.
Speaker 3: Everything's white with chandeliers and flowers and it's all painted fancy,
Speaker 3: and you just go sit in there dressed in your
Speaker 3: gowns and stuff. The whole time, you're changing costumes. So
Speaker 3: every time you learn a new handshake, you're like taking
Speaker 3: your robes off, your putting this a white hat on,
Speaker 3: You're putting gowns on, on, aprons on, You're dressing up
Speaker 3: in all these Freemason clothing. And then every time you
Speaker 3: learn a new handshake, you have to change it. So
Speaker 3: you're like switching your robe from your left shoulder over
Speaker 3: to your right shoulder, and then you're changing it from
Speaker 3: this way to that way. So it's like as you're progressing,
Speaker 3: you're also changing your clothes. Yeah, so I did all
Speaker 3: of that when I was eighteen. When I was eighteen
Speaker 3: years old, you have to do all of that right
Speaker 3: when you turn nineteen. Basically, you and before you serve
Speaker 3: a mission as a missionary, you have to receive your endowment.
Speaker 3: And everybody who is a member of the church that's
Speaker 3: been married in the temple, that's what you do, is
Speaker 3: you go through, you do the endowment, and then you
Speaker 3: get married inside the temple at that altar, so you
Speaker 3: kneel across the altar and get married to each other.
Speaker 3: You do all the secret handshakes and then you hold
Speaker 3: in the secret grip, but the last grip, and then
Speaker 3: the priest marries you while you're doing the handshake.
Speaker 1: Over above the altar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, idea about any of that.
Speaker 3: That's why Mormons won't even date somebody who's not a Mormon.
Speaker 2: Bringing them there be like what the fuck is this?
Speaker 2: Throwing up tank signs, like how could you?
Speaker 3: Right, you can't even get in the door, you know
Speaker 3: you can't. Yeah, you're never gonna get past oh right,
Speaker 3: very you can't even get in the door.
Speaker 1: Damn.
Speaker 4: Is that why some Mormons say they've never like been
Speaker 4: in the temple or something like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's another level. A lot of members of
Speaker 3: the church, you know, they just go to church and
Speaker 3: they don't go to the temple. But the temple is
Speaker 3: a whole other level. Like I went my whole life
Speaker 3: growing up, and all I knew was regular Sunday, so
Speaker 3: I would like go to church, have my regular meetings,
Speaker 3: and most of that was just like you're might as
Speaker 3: well be in any other church. You're just like sitting
Speaker 3: in the pews and going to classes like Bible study.
Speaker 3: Then you go to the temple and you're like changing
Speaker 3: costumes and doing these like serious occult rituals, Freemason rituals
Speaker 3: and everything, and I mean that was just like a
Speaker 3: whole other level. I remember going through the first time,
Speaker 3: and even then I was like fully believing and convinced
Speaker 3: that it was real.
Speaker 1: And in the back of my mind, I.
Speaker 3: Was like, this is fucking nuts, and I was like,
Speaker 3: this is insane what we're doing here. Like I was
Speaker 3: looking around, like nobody's nobody's questioning how weird this is.
Speaker 3: Like my first time going through, I was super weirded
Speaker 3: out by the whole thing, you know, and I had
Speaker 3: to rationalize it all around. Like I just didn't understand
Speaker 3: the mysteries, you know, I didn't understand this was all.
Speaker 3: And you just convince yourself that you're the one that
Speaker 3: was naive, and you're like, wow, this is what the
Speaker 3: church is really about, okay, and you just like accept
Speaker 3: it and move forward, you know. But ultimately, yeah, I
Speaker 3: look back on all of it now and it's like
Speaker 3: pretty wild that I was did that so much. I
Speaker 3: got married in the temple all of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I'm assuming you met your wife through
Speaker 2: the temple as well.
Speaker 3: We met at church, Yeah, we got we got set
Speaker 3: up on a blind day. The first time we met
Speaker 3: each other was at church. Yeah, that's pretty common. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like a safe bet. You know, you go to church,
Speaker 3: you meet someone at church, it's like it's too hard
Speaker 3: to to marry somebody that's not into it just as
Speaker 3: much as you.
Speaker 1: You know, you got to be in on it together.
Speaker 1: It's too weird.
Speaker 4: Together. I get it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Did somebody ask how many veils I went through? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think. So you go through the Washington
Speaker 3: anointing veil, the first one, and then in the middle
Speaker 3: of that one, between the Washington anointing you cross through
Speaker 3: a second curtain. Then you leave through a curtain, step
Speaker 3: through another curtain to get the new name, go through
Speaker 3: another veil, walk up the hallway, go up the stairs
Speaker 3: to go into the adowment room, and.
Speaker 1: Then there's the the.
Speaker 3: The celestial, terrestrial, and celestial. They'll so ultimately there's eight
Speaker 3: eight eight different, eight different curtains you go through. The
Speaker 3: final curtain has the actual Masonic symbols, So it's a
Speaker 3: square and a compass and then a line and so
Speaker 3: he the representative that's supposed to be God, puts his
Speaker 3: hand through the flat line and then he he asks
Speaker 3: you the questions through the square, and then you tell
Speaker 3: him the answers through the compass through and their holes
Speaker 3: in them that are that are cut that way or
Speaker 3: stitched that way. And then at the very end, he
Speaker 3: puts his other arm through the hole and puts it
Speaker 3: on your right shoulder, and then you put your left
Speaker 3: arm through the hole and you it's the Masonic grip.
Speaker 3: So if you look up the Masonic grip, you hold hands,
Speaker 3: you handshake, and then you put your other hand on
Speaker 3: each other's shoulders, and then you put yourself ear to
Speaker 3: ear and you whisper the passwords while you're holding that stance.
Speaker 3: And that's what you do through through the veil to
Speaker 3: get into heaven. And they believe that when you die
Speaker 3: and you actually go to Heaven, that you're going to
Speaker 3: have to do all that, like you're going to go
Speaker 3: up to you know, Peter, James and John and Paul
Speaker 3: or whatever, the guardians of the Pearly Gates, and that's
Speaker 3: what you're going to do to get into heaven.
Speaker 1: Is this passwords.
Speaker 3: So it's practice, yeah, And one of the passwords is
Speaker 3: that the very you know, you have to know your name,
Speaker 3: your new name, so you're the first one is like,
Speaker 3: your password is your given name, so I'd say Carl Andresen,
Speaker 3: and then the second handshake is your new name. I
Speaker 3: would say high Room is the password. The third name,
Speaker 3: This third password is I think it's the Son of
Speaker 3: God or something like that. And then the final password
Speaker 3: is like this whole long thing I'm trying one. If
Speaker 3: I saw it memorized, it's like health in the navel,
Speaker 3: marrow and the bone, strengthen, the wins and the sinews, power,
Speaker 3: and the priests would be upon me and upon my
Speaker 3: posterity throughout all time and throughout all eternity. That's the
Speaker 3: final password, Health in the navel, marrow, in the bone,
Speaker 3: strength and wins. Oh, I just spilled my coffee everywhere,
Speaker 3: so that was the password.
Speaker 1: It's like a whole slogan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a phrase. It's not even a password.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, Yeah, it's like a whole slogan.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's gotta be nerve wracking.
Speaker 3: It is like the first first while, while you're going
Speaker 3: through all the process, it's like you're like, am I
Speaker 3: ever going to remember this? Because you can't take any notes.
Speaker 3: It's not like you can record it. It's not like
Speaker 3: you can take a pin and paper. In there, they
Speaker 3: take all your clothes off, and you're like in the
Speaker 3: you're wearing the ritual clothes, so you can't even take notes.
Speaker 3: You literally just have to go over and over and
Speaker 3: over and over again and memorize it all. It's the
Speaker 3: only way. Like, so you feel like you know, you
Speaker 3: go through it, and you barely get through the first
Speaker 3: like year that you're going through the temple.
Speaker 1: You basically have to have an assistant.
Speaker 3: Like when you go up to the veil to try
Speaker 3: and get through, a helper basically stands there and cheats
Speaker 3: for you and tells you all, tells you everything to
Speaker 3: say so that you can get through. But in the
Speaker 3: end you're supposed to go up there and just do
Speaker 3: it on your own. And then when you get married,
Speaker 3: the husband is the one that pretends to be God.
Speaker 3: So the husband goes through the veil first, and then
Speaker 3: it's the husband that then puts his hand through and
Speaker 3: brings his wife through, so the woman, the wife doesn't
Speaker 3: even get to do the ritual with God. The wife
Speaker 3: only gets to come into heaven when the husband says,
Speaker 3: oh see ye, Theresa.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't like that, you don't you.
Speaker 3: Don't do the handshakes and the passwords with God. You
Speaker 3: do it with your husband.
Speaker 4: I want to do the handshake with God.
Speaker 1: Nope, your husband gets to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're a woman, so you're you have to follow
Speaker 3: the husband first after that. Yeah. A lot of women
Speaker 3: that have left the church feel that way too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I get that.
Speaker 3: Even in the rituals when you make promises, like there's
Speaker 3: covenants and oaths while you're doing all the secret handshakes
Speaker 3: and stuff like, there's promises that you're making while you're
Speaker 3: doing this, like oaths and covenants and promises that you're
Speaker 3: going to be obedient and that you're going to be chased,
Speaker 3: and that you're going to give everything that you have
Speaker 3: to the church if you're asked, and that you'll never
Speaker 3: tell anybody what goes on in the temple, keep it
Speaker 3: sacred in a secret, you know. And during those promises
Speaker 3: and covenance, the man makes promises to God and the
Speaker 3: woman makes promises that she will be obedient to the
Speaker 3: husband as he is amedient to God.
Speaker 1: So the wives make their.
Speaker 3: Covenants and promises to be obedient to their husband as
Speaker 3: long as their husband is keeping the their commandments or
Speaker 3: keeping their covenants. So it's all the women are all
Speaker 3: second tier, even in the temple, and the women don't
Speaker 3: get to do any real officiating. The women don't get
Speaker 3: to do the baptisms or anything, but they do help
Speaker 3: like do the washing and annoying things and.
Speaker 1: A lot of that stuff.
Speaker 3: But ultimately, yeah, the women don't have any priestoe authority.
Speaker 3: They have to do everything through their husband. So that's
Speaker 3: another big red flag too, right.
Speaker 1: The way down.
Speaker 4: I don't know, Yeah, that's weird to me.
Speaker 3: Unless you like that, but I mean that's the stage
Speaker 3: for polygamy too.
Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, if you're going to.
Speaker 3: Have twenty different wives, you better they better be obedient.
Speaker 2: Husband just to get into heaven.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Well, if the husband saying, well, this is part of
Speaker 4: my covenant with God or whatever, like whatever the prophet
Speaker 4: says goes right. So if the prophet what he said,
Speaker 4: like cool, you can marry as many women as you want,
Speaker 4: and the wife's got to be like, okay, the prophet
Speaker 4: said it, so it's okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, don't don't have to think for yourselves, just
Speaker 3: follow along. Yeah, follow the person in front of you,
Speaker 3: and that's your husband. And then the leaders and then God, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: a pyramid scheme.
Speaker 1: Yeah, same deal.
Speaker 2: Wow, Mike, was there any Yeah, that's the that's the temple, Mike.
Speaker 2: Was there any questions that you wanted to ask or
Speaker 2: anything that you wanted to add with any of this?
Speaker 5: Well, just out of my own curiosity, I once worked
Speaker 5: doing some roofing on a new Mormon church and they
Speaker 5: were very weird about the spire that went on that thing.
Speaker 5: They're very particular and they told us multiple times, we
Speaker 5: have our own crew bringing it in, they will be
Speaker 5: the ones to install it. Please please don't touch it,
Speaker 5: don't do anything. And even a little piece of flashing
Speaker 5: metal that connected to the roof with them, and they
Speaker 5: we're told several times by several members to not touch it.
Speaker 5: And so it made us very curious about the thing.
Speaker 5: I wonder if you knew anything about the spire that
Speaker 5: goes on top of the church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all of that.
Speaker 3: I mean for the spire there, they're specific about it,
Speaker 3: how it faces ease, the dimensions. I mean when it
Speaker 3: comes to the temples, they are even another level. Like
Speaker 3: the actual the regular church houses where the members go
Speaker 3: for their Sunday meetings. They're not as particular about the
Speaker 3: dimensions and things. But when it comes to the temples
Speaker 3: where they do the rituals, they're very very specific, down
Speaker 3: to like where the wood comes from where, like the
Speaker 3: dimensions of the windows. Like if they construct something and
Speaker 3: it's even off by an inch or two, they'll tear
Speaker 3: it out and make the workers redo it. And there's
Speaker 3: huge aspects where they'll only contract with Mormon owned companies
Speaker 3: to do the work, like to go in and do
Speaker 3: the actual building and the ritual rooms where they do
Speaker 3: the ceilings and the baptisms and all that. They won't
Speaker 3: even let people that don't have a Temple recommendation card
Speaker 3: like a pass card to get in. They won't even
Speaker 3: let them come to work on the place. And so yeah,
Speaker 3: it's very particular about who they'll.
Speaker 1: Let go in.
Speaker 3: And then there's even inner inner chambers in there or
Speaker 3: who knows what they do. We're only like the Apostles
Speaker 3: and the profit go where they pretend like they go
Speaker 3: in there and talk to God just like Joseph Smith did,
Speaker 3: and then they come out twice a year and they
Speaker 3: do a big conference where they deliver the message, you know,
Speaker 3: but they're not obviously they're not talking to God. They're
Speaker 3: sitting in corporate board meetings with Curtin Mconky, with the
Speaker 3: with lawyers, and they're they're managing their multi billion dollar corporations,
Speaker 3: is what they're doing, you know, collecting tithing money and
Speaker 3: hoarding three hundred billion dollars and buying real estate is
Speaker 3: what they're really doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean they get like a lot of assuming,
Speaker 2: like a lot of kind of like free labor too, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean I was actually even like kind of child
Speaker 3: trafficed through free labor a lot when I was a kid.
Speaker 2: That's considered sex trafficking technically. Actually.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, they would use the Boy Scouts of America program
Speaker 3: and church service projects to get us to do all
Speaker 3: kinds of stuff. There was so many times as a kid,
Speaker 3: when I was like twelve years old where I would
Speaker 3: be out like on some ranch or farm or some
Speaker 3: state park running a chainsaw or building fence or like
Speaker 3: picking potatoes on a potato farm. Never got paid anything,
Speaker 3: And I was just told like through the church on Sunday,
Speaker 3: like like you're one of the kids that's going to
Speaker 3: go do a service project. You're going to go do service,
Speaker 3: go help people. And basically we'd all show up to
Speaker 3: church on Saturday in the parking lot in a white van,
Speaker 3: or somebody would show up and they'd load us all
Speaker 3: up and we'd go somewhere and just do free child
Speaker 3: labor all day. There was one time where I went
Speaker 3: got on a van and drove like two hours out
Speaker 3: in the desert and a shoveled goat poop at a
Speaker 3: secret government genetics lab. I don't know how that works. Oh,
Speaker 3: how that's the service project. But I was at a
Speaker 3: genetics lab where they were combining goat DNA with spiders
Speaker 3: to make advance kevlar like body armor. They take spider
Speaker 3: silk genetics like from acual insects, from spiders, and they
Speaker 3: were mixing the jeans with goats and the goat milk
Speaker 3: would produce this type of protein that they could spin
Speaker 3: into silk and make like kevlar body armor and all
Speaker 3: kinds of weird stuff.
Speaker 1: And that was a facility.
Speaker 3: When I was a kid, I was drove to a
Speaker 3: facility like that with some of my friends to shovel
Speaker 3: the poop out of the goat stalls for child labor
Speaker 3: at some government facility.
Speaker 1: I don't know how that works, Like if.
Speaker 3: The church is contracted with government agencies and provide some
Speaker 3: of that somehow. I have no idea, but I know
Speaker 3: that that that was one of the things I did
Speaker 3: when I was a kid.
Speaker 5: I've heard stories about a lot of espionage being wrapped
Speaker 5: up into a lot of the especially South American missionary
Speaker 5: trips yep. And we know that a lot of high
Speaker 5: ranking Mormons involved in intelligence, and seems like a comfortable relationship.
Speaker 3: For sure, a big comfortable relationship all the way. Like,
Speaker 3: the CIA has a recruiting office at BYU. It's the
Speaker 3: only college campus in the country that actually has a
Speaker 3: recruiting office for the CIA on the campus. And they've
Speaker 3: been caught embedding operatives into the MTC, into the Missionary
Speaker 3: Training Center. So they can basically put a CIA asset
Speaker 3: into the missionary training program, pretend he's a nineteen year
Speaker 3: old kid, send him on a mission to a foreign country,
Speaker 3: and then while he's there pretending to be a missionary
Speaker 3: for the church, he can do espionage, you know, So
Speaker 3: he can he can.
Speaker 1: Do his job.
Speaker 3: And all they have to do is put two of
Speaker 3: those assets together as companions, and you've got basically two
Speaker 3: agents living in a community can do whatever they want
Speaker 3: without supervision and that through the church can get into
Speaker 3: all kinds of different countries that way.
Speaker 1: They've been caught doing that.
Speaker 3: And you know, there's a reason the Area fifty one
Speaker 3: is in Nevada, and that doug Way Airfields in Utah,
Speaker 3: and that one of the main NSA headquarters is right
Speaker 3: across the Innerstate from Salt Lake City, because the entire
Speaker 3: secret military industrial complex was developed with a partnership back
Speaker 3: in the day between Howard Hughes and a Mormon guy
Speaker 3: named Frank Gay. And Frank Gay was a Mormon. See,
Speaker 3: Howard Hughes is like a multi billionaire, you know, he
Speaker 3: was like Elon Musk at his time. And it's really
Speaker 3: hard when you're famous like that to buy any land because, like,
Speaker 3: let's say, if you were Howard Hughes or Elon Musk
Speaker 3: and you wanted to buy some fifty acres in Nevada somewhere,
Speaker 3: as soon as the property owners figure out who you are,
Speaker 3: they're going to jack the price's way up because they
Speaker 3: know you're worth it, you know. So what they would
Speaker 3: do was Howard Hughes would work through these sub corporations
Speaker 3: through the Mormons, and they actually had a nickname called
Speaker 3: the Mormon mafia and Frank Gay and his friends would
Speaker 3: work for Howard Hughes and they would go buy all
Speaker 3: the properties for dirt cheap, you know, pretending like they
Speaker 3: were just regular members of the church wanting to buy
Speaker 3: the land, but they were really doing it for Howard Hughes.
Speaker 3: And then Howard Hughes would move in and they would
Speaker 3: I mean he bought like over seventy different like seventy
Speaker 3: different properties all around Nevada, all of Las Vegas area
Speaker 3: fifty one like tons of that was all developed through
Speaker 3: that system, through like using billionaire's money and Mormons, the
Speaker 3: Mormon Church doing it in secret. Half of Las Vegas
Speaker 3: was built that way back in the day. It's pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of new stuff. Yeah before it's a lot, right,
Speaker 2: some wild stuff.
Speaker 4: Is that the same with the land Disney's.
Speaker 1: On I'm not sure, like Walt Disney.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like in Florida Disney World, because I know a
Speaker 4: lot of that, A lot of that land was owned
Speaker 4: by the c I A first, I don't know if
Speaker 4: that has a warming connection or not.
Speaker 1: A lot of more the church owns a ton of
Speaker 1: land in Florida.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they have the most I think the largest
Speaker 2: orange fields out there still.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're huge into real estate right now. Yeah, there's
Speaker 3: all the church. The church has the religious front, but
Speaker 3: it's really just a mega corporation.
Speaker 1: You know, they're.
Speaker 3: Actively buying up tons of real estate and building shopping
Speaker 3: malls and condominiums and all that stuff. And and yeah,
Speaker 3: they do it all through the corporations of the church
Speaker 3: and then they just run the religion over top of
Speaker 3: it to get the donations.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the tithing, the mandatory tithing.
Speaker 1: Right, mandatory tithing.
Speaker 3: You can't go to the temple and do the rituals,
Speaker 3: you can't get married or anything. You don't even qualify
Speaker 3: if you're not a full tithe payer. That's on the
Speaker 3: on the interview. To qualify when you go and talk
Speaker 3: to your bishop and everything, just to get approval to go,
Speaker 3: they look at your records and they know if you've
Speaker 3: been paying or not. You know, the ward clerk sits
Speaker 3: right in there with your records and he knows if
Speaker 3: you're paying a full tithe or not. If you're not
Speaker 3: paying ten percent, you don't get in, which is hypocritical
Speaker 3: because a church that has over three hundred billion dollars
Speaker 3: and then they for charity. They only give like ten
Speaker 3: million or twenty million. That's not even a tithe that's
Speaker 3: not even ten percent. So even the church isn't giving
Speaker 3: tithing to charity. They're not doing anything with the money.
Speaker 3: They're just hoarding it. Yeah, you know, and the members
Speaker 3: of the church just don't care. They're just like they're
Speaker 3: just glad. They feel like we're winning.
Speaker 1: You know, our church is the wealthiest, you know, we're
Speaker 1: so powerful. You're not getting any of that.
Speaker 4: Well, how do they know what's ten percent of your income?
Speaker 4: Do you have to give them that information?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's all like an honor code kind
Speaker 3: of a thing. But they kind of know. Like when
Speaker 3: I was living in like St. Anthony, Idaho, everybody knows
Speaker 3: I work where I work. It's a small town, like
Speaker 3: I work at the juvenile correction center or whatever, so
Speaker 3: they know how much I make an hour or whatever.
Speaker 1: They kind of guess.
Speaker 3: But it's all like they can when I say, they
Speaker 3: look at the ledger, they can see that like on
Speaker 3: the first of every month, first Sunday of every month,
Speaker 3: did you actually donate or not? You know, are you donating?
Speaker 3: Is it a realistic number or not? And they can
Speaker 3: look at all that and validate it. Yeah, damn, it's
Speaker 3: very high pressure, high demand religion, you know, like you yeah,
Speaker 3: you got to follow a lot of rules, a ton
Speaker 3: of rules to feel like you're doing all right.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, it just sounds like it. I think I
Speaker 2: might wrap it up here and uh, maybe actually, if
Speaker 2: you don't mind, maybe get you back on to do
Speaker 2: like a part two, because I'm sure there's a lot
Speaker 2: more that we could still even talk about, but this
Speaker 2: is interesting. Uh, thank you very much, Carl, Teresa Ike.
Speaker 2: Before we wrap it up, is there anything else you
Speaker 2: wanted to add or risk?
Speaker 4: No, okay, no, thanks for being so open and like, yeah,
Speaker 4: that was I mean, we've done informing coverage before, but
Speaker 4: that was, like, you know, really amazing to hear your experience,
Speaker 4: and I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: I appreciate the opportunity to like, I'm pretty open about it.
Speaker 3: You know. When I was a member of the church,
Speaker 3: it was like a big deal to share the gospel,
Speaker 3: Like it was a big thing for me to be
Speaker 3: a missionary, to go and teach people about the Book
Speaker 3: of Mormon, to teach people about the church, try and convert,
Speaker 3: Try and convert all of you guys, to become a
Speaker 3: Mormon and join me and all that stuff. And I
Speaker 3: feel like I put so much of my life into
Speaker 3: that that now that I'm not a member of the church,
Speaker 3: it's like really therapeutic for me. Like I feel like
Speaker 3: I spent two years as a missionary in Arkansas going
Speaker 3: around knocking on door to door trying to convince people
Speaker 3: that it was true. And now I can hop on
Speaker 3: and do one podcast and reach it, you know, ten
Speaker 3: thousand people in one night potentially, And I feel like
Speaker 3: I make up for it in a good way, like
Speaker 3: set it straight from all the how far off I
Speaker 3: was my whole life and didn't realize it, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's good for me. I like to talk about it.
Speaker 3: I like to put it out there, and if members
Speaker 3: of the church watch this and get upset by it,
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm no different than any other whistleblower that
Speaker 3: got out of any other cult. If I got out
Speaker 3: of Scientology, I'd be doing the same thing. If I
Speaker 3: got out of Catholicism and abuse from chrensch or whatever,
Speaker 3: I would be saying the same stuff about them, you know.
Speaker 3: But I was raised to Mormons, so that's where I'm at.
Speaker 3: I was raising the organization. That was my experience, and
Speaker 3: I think that the full truth deserves to be told
Speaker 3: like that rather than this like packaged up version that
Speaker 3: they tell you and don't give you the whole story.
Speaker 3: You know, they're never gonna tell you about the psychedelics
Speaker 3: and Lumen Walters, They're gonna avoid talking about the scrying
Speaker 3: and the Seerstone. They're gonna, you know, they'll just tiptoe
Speaker 3: around all that stuff and try to have it just
Speaker 3: be about your feelings. You know, well, how does it
Speaker 3: make you feel when you read the book and all that?
Speaker 3: And to me, I'm just like, I'm over all that.
Speaker 3: So I'm just really happy to talk about it and
Speaker 3: have the opportunity.
Speaker 2: Thank you. That was an amazing, amazing show. Appreciate that
Speaker 2: everybody's links are in the bottom. We got Teresa's down there, Mike,
Speaker 2: I'll add his. I might actually have your links some
Speaker 2: copy and paste, but I'll edge your links in there.
Speaker 2: People want to get in touch with Mike and call Krusha.
Speaker 2: His links are in there already. H Thank you everybody
Speaker 2: in the chat. That's what's up. I had a really
Speaker 2: great show. There was a lot of good stuff going
Speaker 2: on in chat. That's why I do it. I appreciate
Speaker 2: everybody catching the live. Thank you again, Carl. I'll have
Speaker 2: to get you back on and do a part two
Speaker 2: for this if you don't mind, in the future, some
Speaker 2: really interesting stuff. It's amazing. I've had other people on
Speaker 2: for this stuff, and like there were things that you
Speaker 2: went into that like I still never heard before. It's
Speaker 2: just wild. So I really appreciate it, man. And that's
Speaker 2: the end of another Recult Rejects and until the next one,
Speaker 2: everybody be well later.