WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.199 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Geesy Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.239 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:34.560 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:45.479 Good Evening, The untold story behind the hit true crime podcast, 8 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:51.119 The Clearing. This unforgettable memoir traces one daughter's moving quest 9 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:55.960 to understand her larger than life childhood as she searches 10 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.759 for the truth about her father, the serial killer Edward 11 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:05.439 Wayne Edwards. One evening in two thousand and nine, April 12 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:09.319 Belascio was searching online as she had been every night, 13 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:13.000 for unsolved murders in the towns her family had lived 14 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:17.879 growing up when she stumbled across the latest investigations into 15 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:23.159 the Sweetheart Murders cold case. All at once, the buried 16 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.920 memories of her father's dark history were awakened, and she 17 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.879 knew she had to take action. She picked up the 18 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:34.719 phone to call a detective, and the rest is infamous 19 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:41.120 true crime history. Blacio bravely reveals an astonishing tale of 20 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:47.799 a lifetime of manipulation, unexplained upheavals, and silent fear. Some 21 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.200 part of her had always known what her father was 22 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:53.599 capable of, but the full truth of how she came 23 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:58.959 to these revelations is as riveting as it is quietly terrifying. 24 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:03.319 The book that we're featuring this evening is Raised by 25 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:08.080 a Serial Killer, Discovering the Truth about My Father, with 26 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:12.560 my special guest author April Blascio. Thank you very much 27 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:16.759 for this interview, and welcome to the program, April Blessio. 28 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:19.639 Hi Dan, thank you for having me. 29 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.439 Thank you so much, and congratulations on this book, Raised 30 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:27.719 by a Serial Killer, Discovering the Truth about My Father. Now, 31 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:31.439 let's talk about how your father met your mother in 32 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.400 nineteen sixty eight on a city bus in Akron, Ohio. 33 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:37.719 He was thirty five years old and she was twenty one. 34 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.199 Tell us a little bit about the past that he 35 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:44.159 had before your mother married him. Tell us about your 36 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:48.000 father's background before we talk about your life growing up 37 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:51.240 with your father and your mother and traveling the country. 38 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:56.439 Well before my father had met my mom. He well, 39 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:00.159 originally he was born in Akron, Ohio, and he was 40 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:03.879 in and out of an orphanage due to his mother 41 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.800 being unwed, and then when he was adopted by other 42 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:12.800 family members, his adopted mother ended up passing away, so 43 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:15.360 he was in and out of the orphanages. From a 44 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:17.960 young age. He told people he wanted to be a 45 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:23.479 crook and then and that's exactly what he did. From 46 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:25.879 a very young age, he just set out to be 47 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:29.759 a crook, from stealing bikes when he was a youngster 48 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:35.280 to stealing cigarettes, stealing from his grandmother, and then those 49 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:42.240 crimes just progressed. He turned into robbing banks, robbing gas stations. 50 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:45.800 He ended up being on the FBI's most wanted list 51 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:49.520 in nineteen sixty He was actually out on parole. They 52 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:54.000 finally did catch him in Atlanta, Georgia, and he was 53 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:57.159 out on parole in nineteen sixty eight when he met 54 00:03:57.159 --> 00:03:59.439 my mom at a bus stop in Akron, Ohio. 55 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.919 Your mother was kay Lynn Headerly, But Wayne Edwards, your father. 56 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.479 That's not his original name, was it. 57 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:11.560 No, His original name was Charles Murray. And then when 58 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:16.600 he was adopted, they changed his name to Edward Wayne Edwards. 59 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:20.480 And I always knew him. Everyone always referred to him 60 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:24.279 as Wayne. I just always knew that everyone referred to 61 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:27.439 him as Wayne. I didn't even realize that his first 62 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:32.480 name was technically Edward until I believe I read his book. 63 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.319 I was in seventh grade, and I think that was 64 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:38.759 the first time that I, or at least it really 65 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.800 hit home. I might have heard about it before, but 66 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.639 I just did. It just didn't stick in my mind 67 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:46.680 until I was in when I read his book. 68 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:50.800 He told your mother when he had met her that 69 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:54.639 he was free after five years of prison, and he 70 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.199 was sent there for armed robbery. But your mother married 71 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:03.000 him despite that criminal record, didn't she? 72 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.480 She did my mother when my father met my mom, 73 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.680 my mom was actually engaged to someone else, and my 74 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:14.600 dad was very charismatic, very much a womanizer, so my 75 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.160 mom didn't have a chance. She was what some people 76 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:21.680 might call, you know, a wallflower. She was very quiet, 77 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:26.519 blended in, you know, didn't speak out much. She had 78 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:29.560 actually was going to was just finishing up college to 79 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:34.120 become a teacher, and when she met my dad, she 80 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:37.160 just fell head over and heels in love with him. 81 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:42.879 And he did tell her about his past, and it 82 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:47.560 didn't seem to bother her. I think she thought because 83 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:52.360 he was honest and upfront, and that he was stating 84 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:56.360 that he was leading a reform life. She believed him. 85 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:01.399 You talk about his past and is the developing criminal career, 86 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:06.000 but it was plagued by stays in orphanages throughout his 87 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:10.120 life as well. What did your father say to your 88 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:14.519 mother regarding that upbringing and how did that affect his 89 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:19.959 own parenting? What was his philosophy in parenting after being 90 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:23.680 not parented at all in his life? 91 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.800 Well, I would I would disagree a little bit. He 92 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:32.399 was parented off and on, and I really believe the 93 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:35.439 only reason that he was put into the orphanage was 94 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.560 because he was such a troubled child. Nowadays, we have 95 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:43.920 resources to help parents with children who might be difficult 96 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:48.120 or you know, going through circumstances that you know, we 97 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.319 don't understand. But at that time, the thing to do 98 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:53.639 was to put them in the orphanage, especially you know, 99 00:06:53.759 --> 00:07:00.480 after his adoptive mom died, but his grandmother and his others, 100 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:04.040 they were still involved in his life as much as possible, 101 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:07.720 even all the way up, you know, to involved in 102 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:12.560 our lives. But his big philosophy was he felt in 103 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.120 his mind that he wasn't loved, that he wasn't shown love, 104 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.319 and so he would he would tell people and I 105 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:23.040 believe he spoke on this when he went around and 106 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:28.480 did his public speaking, was that if a children was loved, 107 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:32.480 that that conquers all that if you just love your 108 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.800 child and discipline them. He also believed in discipline, that 109 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.279 a child just needed love and discipline and they would 110 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:41.160 they would be prosperous. 111 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:45.959 Tell us about this. When he's in prison, he decides 112 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:51.920 to turn his life around, supposedly and gets a book published. 113 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:57.079 This metamorphosis of a criminal. So he's able to get 114 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:00.600 a book published at thirty four years old in nineteen 115 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.240 seventy two. Tell us about this book, the success of it, 116 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:07.680 and the tours that he went on to support that book. 117 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:10.920 The book. He was out of prison when the book 118 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.759 was published. Even when the book was being written, he 119 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:16.839 dictated to my mom the book. My mom actually typed 120 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.759 it up, so she helped him write the book, and 121 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:25.040 that was his claim to fame. His book goes into 122 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:31.720 detail about his childhood. It goes into detail and extreme 123 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:36.399 detail about his life of crime. And in the book, 124 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:40.000 you know, he mentions how abusive he is, the things 125 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:45.080 that he did to women, even as far as raping them. 126 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.200 It's just it's it's just horrible. The things that he 127 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:53.000 admits to in this memoir that you know, I as 128 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:55.080 an adult, you know, looking at it now, I'm like, 129 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:59.080 why would he admit to some of these things? 130 00:08:59.159 --> 00:08:59.399 You know? 131 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:04.840 I just didn't understand and still don't understand his book 132 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:07.960 as to why he did what he did. 133 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:12.759 But he admitted to a host of different crimes, including 134 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:16.759 arson and burglary and theft. But also there was all 135 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:19.960 kinds of things in there as you write about just 136 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.960 his behaviors, past behavior, beating women and treating women poorly, 137 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:29.039 but also that you say that strangely, he would give 138 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:31.200 this book as sort of a calling card. He was 139 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.639 very proud of this book and would give it to 140 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.639 neighbors and new acquaintances and friends, wouldn't he He did. 141 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:39.679 That was one of the first things that he did 142 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.000 when we would go into move into a new neighborhood, 143 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.879 is he would go knocking on the neighbor's door and 144 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.679 present them with a book. Growing up, I didn't think 145 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:54.320 much of it. Looking back now as an adult, I 146 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.039 would have been embarrassed. I would have been embarrassed to 147 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:02.960 have a book that states, you know, all the things 148 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:07.000 that I did wrong, the heinous crimes, especially crimes that 149 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:10.360 he didn't even get convicted for that he omits to 150 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:13.759 And that just shows you the way that he thought. 151 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:18.519 He didn't think like most people. But he was absolutely 152 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.120 proud of this, of this. 153 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:25.240 Book you talk about. In nineteen seventy four, with money 154 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:28.440 from the book and tour engagements, Dad bought an empty 155 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:34.480 lot in Doylestown, Ohio. And so you moved with your 156 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:41.679 three siblings to Doyleston and to a rural farm community. 157 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:45.120 Yes, yes, we originally he bought the when we moved 158 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.480 from Acron, Ohio. We moved to Doylestown, and we started 159 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.320 out by running a home, a farm home, a farmhouse 160 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:54.960 right around the corner from the piece of property that 161 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:57.840 he had bought to build our home on. So we 162 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:02.440 were living in this farmhouse as he was slowly building 163 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:06.639 the house on the piece of property. The house on 164 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:10.240 the piece of property was on Kevin Drive and the 165 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:14.200 farmhouse was on Taylor Road. And I loved that farmhouse. 166 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:18.120 I just to this day, I have very fond memories 167 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.919 of that farmhouse. But he ended up burning down the barn. 168 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:26.080 He ended up burning down the farmhouse. He was never 169 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.320 he never admitted that in his well the book was 170 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:34.120 at was before that, But he never admitted that crime 171 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:37.159 to me, but my mom knew about it, and my 172 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:40.679 mom told me about it. My mom told me about 173 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:44.519 that when I was a teenager. And here he had 174 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:47.360 burnt down the barn and he had burnt down the 175 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:52.279 barn because he was going to or wanting to collect 176 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.600 insurance money on the lumber that he had been storing 177 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.240 in the barn. But what he had did before or 178 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:02.840 he set the bar on fire was he had moved 179 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:07.200 the lumber out and made it appear that there was 180 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.000 still lumber in the barn. And then I think about 181 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:16.960 five months later, he burned down the house. And here 182 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:21.519 again he did it for insurance purposes. He had insured 183 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:26.159 the contents of the home which were not worth anything. 184 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.360 I've actually have looked at the report from the fire 185 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:35.240 department and what they said the contents were worth, or 186 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.120 what my dad said the contents were worth, and I 187 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:41.600 find that very hard to believe because we always had 188 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:46.159 so little, very little, And I'm sure you know my 189 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.039 dad lied about that. But what happened was the house 190 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.720 didn't burn all the way down, and there was talk 191 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.919 about maybe evidence of there being arson, and he went 192 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:00.840 back a couple nights later within the I'm not exactly 193 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:06.480 sure how many days later, and he stuffed rags inside 194 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:10.000 the electrical box and set it on fire, and then 195 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:13.799 the house burnt to the ground. After that, I think 196 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.960 talking to people that were on the fire department at 197 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.919 that time and talking to people in the area. As 198 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:26.159 I've gone back in Denmine have done some investigating. He 199 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:30.440 was suspected of burning the house down. People suspected him, 200 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.039 but they didn't have any proof, and then it was 201 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:34.799 just dropped. 202 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.960 Let's talk about before we talk about the numerous times 203 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.679 that you had to suddenly move or soon move, or 204 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.240 right after school ended you had to move. You talk 205 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:49.679 about nine different bedrooms in your life. Do you talk 206 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.279 about that there's two different versions of your father, and 207 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:56.240 he was the family man, wanted to have a family, 208 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:02.000 so you saw growing up these two very contrasting sides 209 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:05.159 of your father. Tell us about just a couple of 210 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.000 the things that you saw yourself regarding your mother, and 211 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:14.279 this sort of quick temper and turn in his mood suddenly. 212 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:19.000 Well for starters, and this is what I remember, or 213 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:22.080 I choose to remember, don't. I don't like to dwell 214 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.960 on the negative. I really don't even you know, talking 215 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.679 about my dad. I will talk about the bad things, 216 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:31.080 and obviously I have, but I truly tried to dwell 217 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:36.080 and remember the good times. And my dad was very fun. 218 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:41.480 He was very loving, very charismatic. He loved kids. He 219 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.720 would organize block parties for kids, whether it had you know, 220 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:52.440 centered around Christmas or Halloween. Always had big parties, big 221 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.840 get togethers the kids, the kids on the around the community. 222 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.600 They love my dad, as did I. I hit my 223 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.399 brothers and my sister, But there was another side to 224 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:09.480 my dad that was very a flip. A switch would 225 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:15.600 just flip and he would become very angry and very physical. 226 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.080 I watched on you know, several occasions where he would 227 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:22.799 hit my mom in the stomach and she was pregnant 228 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.000 at the time. On two different separate two different step, 229 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:28.480 two different occasions. I remember her being pregnant in him 230 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.600 punching her in the stomach. He punched her in the 231 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:34.080 jaw and broke her jaw. She ended up having her 232 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.759 He broke her jaw two different times. And even as 233 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:40.799 a child, I write about this in that book. I 234 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:45.720 remember my dad throwing me across the room and I 235 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:49.240 don't remember too much. You know, I don't really remember 236 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.360 hitting the wall, but I'm told I did hit the wall, 237 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:54.879 but I woke up, but he knocked me out, and 238 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.600 I woke up with you know, being on the couch 239 00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:01.120 and him, you know, having a whole compress on my 240 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.960 head and being very loving and asking if if I 241 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:11.320 was okay. So the big contrast there and the violence 242 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:16.519 was quite often, but and it was, it was very, 243 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:20.000 very violent, but he was also very loving. 244 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.919 Let's get to a person named Billy. One of the 245 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:28.840 young men were working on the house. Your father would 246 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:33.120 surround himself with young men and young adults and have 247 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.679 them work in construction with him. And there was a 248 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.639 young man named Billy, and he thought maybe that Billy 249 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.360 had touched you and asked you about it. Tell us 250 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.240 about this incident and your dad's reaction. 251 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.480 Well, my dad, and my dad was always on the 252 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.559 lookout for cheap labor, so he would hire and he 253 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.720 did this for as long as I can remember. He 254 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:02.639 would get young men, maybe right out of high school, 255 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:07.640 in their late teens, early twenties, and he would promise them, 256 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.400 you know, beer parties, barbecues, and these young men would 257 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.480 work for my dad, and he would repay them with 258 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.319 beer and barbecues, and I'm not sure if if he 259 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.359 ever gave them cash. I never witnessed that, but I 260 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:24.960 don't know whether he did or did not. And one 261 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.720 of the men, young men by the name of Billy, 262 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:32.079 was came around and would help my dad work on 263 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.640 the house and would come to the parties. My dad 264 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:42.640 always having backyard barbecues. He loved to barbecue on the grill. 265 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:46.440 He was famous for his barbecue chicken, and he just 266 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:50.559 loved to entertain and have people surrounding him. The first time, 267 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.799 which I don't remember, this I picked. I first learned 268 00:17:55.799 --> 00:18:00.119 of this listening to my dad on a tape talking 269 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:07.079 about how he had suspicions of Billy touching me and 270 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.359 coming out of my bedroom when I lived on Taylor Road. 271 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.839 And now I don't remember that, and I was probably 272 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.119 four or five at the time. But Billy had been 273 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.400 working for my dad for a couple of years, and 274 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.759 it was when we were actually living on Taylor Road. 275 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.200 Now we were in the house, even though the house 276 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:34.000 was very rough, didn't have running water or electricity, but 277 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.400 Billy had been up in the room one of the 278 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:42.359 bedrooms doing drywall work and he asked if I wanted 279 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.440 to help him, and you know, of course, I think 280 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:47.400 I was seven at the time. I'm like, sure, and 281 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:49.920 you know, I would just hand him the screws or 282 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.960 the nails. And I got bored eventually, and I just 283 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.920 started riding on the floor with a piece of drywalks 284 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.359 that acted like a piece of chalk. And he asked 285 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.279 me if I wanted to piggyback ride. And I remember 286 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.880 this very, very adamantly. I remember this, but I never 287 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.480 told anyone. I never told anyone until until after I 288 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:16.119 turned my dad in. But Billy did touch me inappropriately, 289 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.319 and I was on Billy's back when he was touching 290 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:24.799 me inappropriately. His hand was up in my short area. 291 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:29.079 My dad called me down stairs, and my dad was 292 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:31.680 waiting for me at the bottom of the steps, and 293 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.240 he had asked me if Billy had touched me in 294 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:40.720 places that he shouldn't, And I knew I should have 295 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.839 said yes, But there was a part of me that 296 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.880 knew that Billy would be in a lot of trouble, 297 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:49.440 and I didn't want him to get into trouble, so 298 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:53.880 I told my dad no. What I didn't realize until many, 299 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:55.880 many years, and it was after I turned my dad in. 300 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.720 What I didn't realize was that my dad knew and 301 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:05.599 he knew what Danny had had did, and supposedly that 302 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:09.039 is the reason that he ended up killing Danny. 303 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:14.519 Let's move on now, because it's there are other incidents 304 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:18.440 where there are cops coming to the house. One time 305 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.680 you answered the door and it's playing closed Guys and 306 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:27.160 it's FBI. So just tell us that they're about these 307 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:32.359 incidents where he befriends police or police come to the door, 308 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:38.039 sort of your dad's general practice of befriending police. 309 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.240 Well, I mentioned earlier that one of the first things 310 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.960 my dad did was introduce himself to our neighbors and 311 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:48.880 present his book to them. The second thing he did, 312 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:53.440 or maybe in conjunction with that, was he befriended the 313 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:57.799 local law enforcement, whether it was FBI, whether it was 314 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:02.960 just beat cops. Details. He would befriend as many as possible. 315 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.920 And what he did throughout his whole life, as far 316 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.759 as I knew, was that he would gather information. He 317 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:16.160 would hang out at bars and gather information and present 318 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:21.319 this information to law enforcement officers, making it appear you 319 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.599 know that he was a good guy and that he 320 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:28.319 was helping them crack down on crimes. And one time, 321 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.319 I remember we were on Kevin Drive in the house 322 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:35.160 that my dad built and FBI. I didn't realize they 323 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.720 were FBI agents at the time my dad told me 324 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:40.559 about it. I just remember these two men coming to 325 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.079 our door and they talked to my dad for a 326 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.599 long time. He actually sent all of us kids outside, 327 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.279 but they they came bearing gifts. They had given me 328 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.759 a little treasure box. They a pocket watch, I believe, 329 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:58.799 to another one of my brothers. I don't remember all 330 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.480 the gifts, but they gave each one of us kids gifts, 331 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.640 and I don't know the reasoning behind that. I just 332 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:07.680 I love the little treasure box and it was something 333 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.559 that I kept with me up until the time that 334 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:12.519 I pretty much left home. 335 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:18.200 Let's talk about Aunt Lucille, and let's talk about your travels, 336 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:21.519 because you talk about the numerous states that you travel to, 337 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.279 some of it in a big win of Bago, but 338 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.640 also that many times you moved suddenly a couple times 339 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.559 at night or at least once at night. So let's 340 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:36.519 just talk about just these road trips and what they entailed, 341 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:39.799 and just some of the places that you went to 342 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.160 that later become very important. 343 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.680 Okay, Well, first of all, Aunt Lucille and Lucille and 344 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.839 uncle Ale Antocille was my dad's aunt, so she was 345 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.319 my great aunt. She loved my dad very much. She 346 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:54.599 was always in his life. She would go visit him 347 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:57.680 when he was at the orphanage and she didn't end 348 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.720 up having any children. Her husband, my uncle Al, had 349 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:05.680 a stroke at a young age and she ended up, 350 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:08.079 you know, taking care of him for all of their 351 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:12.799 married life. But Aunt Lucille would come and visit us 352 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:16.759 wherever we moved to. She also was very generous and 353 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.799 would send money to my dad over the holidays for 354 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:25.680 our birthdays to help my dad. By presence. She was 355 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:28.400 just a very loving woman and she loved my dad. 356 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:31.000 But she even though she loved my dad, she knew 357 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.839 his flaws. She knew the things that he had did. 358 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.160 She suspected him of things that he had done, even 359 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.559 after he said he was reformed. But she still loved him. 360 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.319 And as far as all the places that we moved, 361 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:51.200 it was I believe nineteen seventy eight was our first time. Well, 362 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.880 we after we moved from Akron, we moved to Doylestown 363 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:59.440 and we stayed in the Doylestown area from my kindergarten 364 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:03.319 through third grade, and then after that we picked up 365 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.119 in the summertime, we moved to Florida. We stayed there 366 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:13.519 for a year, ended up moving started to move to Arizona, 367 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:15.400 but that my dad found that too hot, and we 368 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.079 ended up in Brighton, Colorado. We lived there for a year, 369 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.079 ended up moving in the middle of the night, and 370 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:27.400 ended up in After that move, we ended up in Watertown, Wisconsin, 371 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:31.200 and we only stayed there for a couple months. Once again, 372 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.200 we packed up in the middle of the night or 373 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.000 middle we started in the middle of the night. I 374 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.880 think we left in the afternoon, or vice versa. We 375 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.880 started early morning and left in at night. I'm a 376 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:44.240 little bit vague on exactly when we started and when 377 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:49.960 we ended up pulling out. After that, we landed in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 378 00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:52.960 I stayed We still lived there for a year, and 379 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.000 then ended up in Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania. From Slippery Rock 380 00:24:57.079 --> 00:24:59.799 before that, I would have been By the time that 381 00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:01.880 we ed up in Slippy Rock, Pennsylvania, I was in 382 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:05.880 seventh grade, and before we finished our seventh grade year, 383 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.559 due to my dad burning down another house, we ended 384 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.279 up going down to Atlanta, Georgia, and stayed there for 385 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.559 a couple months, and then ended up coming back to 386 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:23.319 Slippy Rock, Pennsylvania, because that's my dad got caught for arson. 387 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:30.720 Then we stayed in the Pennsylvania area, multiple places, multiple homes. 388 00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.039 One it was the longest time that we stayed in 389 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.440 an area because my dad did end up going to 390 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:39.519 prison for that particular arson, and then as soon as 391 00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.680 he got out of prison, we ended up moving to 392 00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:46.720 that which was in eighty six. We ended up moving 393 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:52.359 to Burton, Ohio a couple of days before my senior 394 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:57.880 year started, and then my father my family ended up 395 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.400 staying in the Burton area for years. I think it 396 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:05.599 was probably not until nineteen so at least ten eleven 397 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:08.680 years they stayed in that area. 398 00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:12.160 That's usus as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages. 399 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.799 What we didn't talk about was in nineteen eighty at 400 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:24.599 the Concord House in Waterton, Wisconsin. You mentioned your dad 401 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:28.319