1 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,719 Speaker 1: Tim, so glad to have you back. Welcome to the show. 2 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 2: Hey, thank you, Martin. Glad to be back. 3 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: And I got to tell you since you were on, 4 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,440 I think it's possible that I was maybe the second 5 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,799 person interview. It doesn't matter, But since that interview, you 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,240 have done so much and I love the way you 7 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,240 have treated this topic with such high respect, and you 8 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,280 bring respect to the topic. And it was great to 9 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,920 see you at Contact in the Desert and more recently 10 00:00:45,399 --> 00:00:48,560 on the twenty fifth at the forum event down there, 11 00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:51,240 the Disclosure Forum. It was just you did such a 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,240 great job and I'm so happy that you're involved the 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,840 way you are. And so I want to ask you, 14 00:00:57,079 --> 00:01:00,960 besides having that event, when the email and disappearing video 15 00:01:01,039 --> 00:01:03,679 and all that, did you have an interest in any 16 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:04,560 of this before that? 17 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:08,519 Speaker 2: Or is that what really started the whole thing. I 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,680 was always interested. As a young kid growing up in 19 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,680 southern California. There was a show on that Leonard Nimoy 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,400 hosted called In Search. 21 00:01:17,159 --> 00:01:18,599 Speaker 1: Of and I love that one. 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, jobs, of course he would treat the topic and 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,000 I was fascinated by back then, just the thought that 24 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:28,400 we might not be alone in the years and all 25 00:01:28,439 --> 00:01:31,959 these different sightings that have been reported up until then, 26 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:35,040 and then, and then of course over time. I told you, 27 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,200 I think that I was the superintendent of the Naval Observatory, 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,840 so I had a whole team of astrophysicists who worked 29 00:01:40,879 --> 00:01:43,519 for me, whose jaga was to observe the stars, their 30 00:01:43,519 --> 00:01:47,640 locations and magnitudes that satellites used to navigate, including GPS, 31 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:50,840 and just knowing how large the universe was. After working 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,560 with them, it made me just think it was impossible 33 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,359 that if there's one hundred billion stars in our galaxy 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,359 and there's trillions of galaxies in the observable universe, how 35 00:02:00,359 --> 00:02:03,879 could we possibly be alone? So those were always lingering 36 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,079 in the back of my mind before I actually saw 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,240 ferstand video evidence on the Navy's classified systems of UAP. 38 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,439 Speaker 1: I love the saying, what a waste of space if 39 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,719 we're alone? You just think about it is it's so 40 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,000 hard to try to understand, like if you took every 41 00:02:19,039 --> 00:02:22,159 single grain of sand on the Earth, on every beach, 42 00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:25,240 that there's more stars than that. That's so hard to picture, 43 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,280 but it gives you some type of guideline to use 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,400 to say it's enormous, on and on in the distance. 45 00:02:32,439 --> 00:02:34,919 Between them and all that, it's just baffling. First of all, 46 00:02:35,159 --> 00:02:38,520 I want to congratulate you on your appointment to the 47 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,039 White House UAP Advisory with AVI Low. How did that 48 00:02:42,039 --> 00:02:43,479 come about? Sure? 49 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: First, let me make a correction Martin, It's not a 50 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,159 White House body. It is a report We report as 51 00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:52,719 a Science Advisory Council to the Office of the Director 52 00:02:52,759 --> 00:02:56,199 of National Intelligence, so that's who we fall under. However, 53 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,560 we do not have been established unless the White House 54 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,400 approved it. So it is sanctioned by the White House, 55 00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:03,479 but we do not report to the White House. So 56 00:03:03,479 --> 00:03:06,000 that's an instinction has to be clarified because E's saying 57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,280 it's a White House body and it is not. However, 58 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,599 I see it's notable and it is an official executive 59 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,520 branch Federal Advisory Council, which is absolutely I think a 60 00:03:16,599 --> 00:03:19,159 monumental in terms of a development in our field of 61 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,080 UAP research. 62 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: So what is basically the advisory panel and what do 63 00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:26,520 you expect your role to be in it? 64 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,039 Speaker 2: Yeah? Just and again being very specific about this, because 65 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,439 I was in the government, if you recall, both in 66 00:03:32,439 --> 00:03:36,479 the Navy and as an appointee during the first Trump administration, 67 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,120 So we have to be really precise about language. It's 68 00:03:39,159 --> 00:03:42,680 an advisory council, that's our name, and our charter is 69 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:48,159 to make recommendations to the od and I regarding UAP 70 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,159 research broadly. And so our first task basically was to 71 00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:55,439 look at all the white part of the Pentagon UFO 72 00:03:55,599 --> 00:04:01,199 files and request characteristics and data sets associated with them 73 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:05,080 so that we can perform proper analysis to determine how 74 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,960 anomalists or not the different videos and reports are. So 75 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,000 we've submitted a list of about fifty items we requested 76 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,720 and they only involved Pentagon, probably the Pentagon UFO files, 77 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,920 but our own private research for example. Again, people know 78 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,199 that from my experience as notionographer in the Navy and 79 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,600 in the government, I'm very interested in the occurrence of 80 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,720 UAP and the ocean. And so I've had three different 81 00:04:30,079 --> 00:04:34,079 submarine officers and sailors come to me who had reports 82 00:04:34,079 --> 00:04:37,959 of anomalists phenomena moving very rapidly faster than any objects 83 00:04:37,959 --> 00:04:40,600 that we know of that can do that in the water, 84 00:04:41,079 --> 00:04:44,600 and those three people basically I have dates, I have 85 00:04:44,759 --> 00:04:50,399 the submarine names and locations, and we've requested acoustic information 86 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,000 from the sonars of those submarines that we can make 87 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:56,480 proper analysis. And that's just one example of the data 88 00:04:56,519 --> 00:04:59,879 we're requesting. We have a challenge. I'd be clear that 89 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,040 some of the data, because of the sensors or locations, 90 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,759 may be classified and may never be declassified, and that 91 00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:09,879 that's going to possibly hold us back. But our first 92 00:05:09,879 --> 00:05:12,319 step is at least asked, and then we're to continue 93 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,480 to go forward to do the kind of research that 94 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,480 actually obvious doing with the Galileo project. He's setting up 95 00:05:18,519 --> 00:05:23,319 a network of very different observing systems and to determine 96 00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:27,279 and characterize precisely the nature of UAP movement and the 97 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,600 characteristics of the phenomenon and crap. And so we're we're 98 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,839 going to do the same with the DoD data that exists. 99 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:36,199 So step back for a minute and appreciate what's going 100 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,519 on here, because we've had these recent UFO file releases, 101 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,439 basically hundreds of them, and before that we only had 102 00:05:43,519 --> 00:05:46,839 three or so videos that we know, the go Fast, 103 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,680 the gimbal and I believe the tic TAC. And look 104 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,920 what we have now. We have a real trove of 105 00:05:53,399 --> 00:05:57,240 data that has been classified until now and it's now 106 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,399 been declassified. So that's a Milestone's really remarkable. And I 107 00:06:01,399 --> 00:06:03,519 think we have to appreciate where we are. We have 108 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:07,000 to appreciate that we're now a sanctioned government body to 109 00:06:07,079 --> 00:06:10,439 do this kind of research being acknowledged in the open press, 110 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,519 and with a spokesman like Auviy Lobe who but just 111 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,160 disappoints me. He's an esteemed ask a physicist, and he's 112 00:06:17,199 --> 00:06:20,160 taking a great amount of courage to address this topic. 113 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,680 And of course you go on social media and he's 114 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,000 got a ton of haters already, and that's just people 115 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,839 aren't being objective about the important we are right now. 116 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: I agree, and I've had Avy on the show, I 117 00:06:33,079 --> 00:06:36,439 don't know, maybe four times, I believe, and I love 118 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:40,839 the way he approaches this. He admittedly says he approaches 119 00:06:40,879 --> 00:06:43,920 it like a child, a curious child. And I love that. 120 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,560 I know that's, for instance, that's where AI, that's where 121 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,199 it's making all the leaps and bounds as someone was 122 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,319 watching a toddler and thinking, wow, that is curious and learning. 123 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,800 And I think, as we get more and more into 124 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,959 AI or AGI, that's artificial general and tell. Since they're 125 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:04,680 using the model of an infant learning, I think it's great. 126 00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:08,519 And he said that he took like an inspiration from 127 00:07:08,519 --> 00:07:12,040 his daughter who was asking him questions, and he thought, 128 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,399 why not ask in science? Why not ask these questions? 129 00:07:15,399 --> 00:07:18,040 So I love the fact that people you can't get 130 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,399 more credibility than his position at Harvard. And there's people 131 00:07:22,399 --> 00:07:25,040 that will complain, unfortunately about everything. I've been watching this 132 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:29,199 for a while, and you know, especially on Twitter, Twitter, 133 00:07:29,319 --> 00:07:31,519 it's they used to say, oh ufo Twitter, what a 134 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,160 hey ache, Stay away because there are people is very divisive, 135 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,600 and so you just have to tune all that out 136 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:39,759 and just keep moving on and do the right thing. 137 00:07:39,879 --> 00:07:42,079 Speaker 2: What I like about Auvi too, is he has this 138 00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:45,680 courage that so few people today have had in really 139 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:49,879 looking at the nature of our universe. And he's concluded 140 00:07:50,439 --> 00:07:53,680 wisely in my opinion, that Okay, we know life is 141 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,959 a property in the universe. We've evolved in a very 142 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,199 short time frame, by the way he says, we're newcomers 143 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,920 on the cosmic block, being not only for about four 144 00:08:00,959 --> 00:08:05,399 point or Earth being about four point so what billion years? 145 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:08,040 And then and then as a species, my gosh, we're 146 00:08:08,079 --> 00:08:10,920 just very much a sliver of time compared to the 147 00:08:10,959 --> 00:08:13,759 fourteen or so billion years of the universe. Why would 148 00:08:13,839 --> 00:08:19,199 not another intelligence, civilization have evolved and possibly been exterminated, 149 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,240 and then another one involved, et cetera. The universe is 150 00:08:23,399 --> 00:08:27,040 likely teeming with intelligent life, and that's the sort of 151 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,319 reasoning he takes to this, which, like he says, it 152 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:33,919 would be extraordinary if an other intelligent life wasn't in 153 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,840 the universe, that would be and I wish more scientists 154 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,200 we just think about this topic and admit so. 155 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: And I remember I was with hanging out with doctor 156 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:45,080 Michael Masters. I'm not sure if you know who he is. 157 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,440 He's a professor. Yeah, and his theory is the time travel. 158 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,080 We've had some great discussions. But I was hanging out 159 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,559 with him, and he went up to this scientist that 160 00:08:54,639 --> 00:08:57,240 happened to be somewhere. I'm trying to remember where we were. 161 00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:01,200 In the conversation, he's saying, what's wrong with you for 162 00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:04,159 not being curious about this? This could be the one 163 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,919 of the biggest puzzles we'd ever solved, And aren't you 164 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,639 open to science? Real science? And that would be discovering 165 00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:14,159 what this is and with an open mind. Basically, he 166 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,320 was chewing the guy out. And I don't remember what 167 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,799 the conversation was, but yeah, and I got to say 168 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,320 over and over again, I've thanked Leslie Kine and other people. 169 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:26,080 Ralph Blumenthal, I've never met the third author of the 170 00:09:26,639 --> 00:09:32,559 December seventeenth New York Times article sixty twenty seventeen. Yeah, 171 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,919 I can't believe how many years that is. Nine years now. 172 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:41,000 But it's incredible what that has done for people of science. 173 00:09:41,159 --> 00:09:43,279 Avi Lowe and all the people that have come forward, 174 00:09:43,399 --> 00:09:46,639 Kevin Kanuth, all these people that were heavily involved with science, 175 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:48,720 and they were saying they're going to dip their toe 176 00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:51,440 in the water because if that comes out and the 177 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,240 Pentagon is saying that there's something to this, then I'm 178 00:09:55,279 --> 00:09:57,279 not going to get as much ridicule. I think we 179 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,519 all get a little ridicule. And let me ask you this, 180 00:09:59,639 --> 00:10:02,759 Have you, from any of your friends or colleagues or 181 00:10:02,799 --> 00:10:05,399 anything like that, had any ridicule for this part of 182 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:06,480 interest in your life. 183 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 2: It's a great question. And this is what's so interesting 184 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,279 about that. No, in my whole professional and personal life, 185 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,039 family members included, who were skeptical have embraced this topic 186 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,480 and begun their own personal research and have come back 187 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,519 to me with interest. And my brother in law is 188 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,159 a great example. He's a very senior person in the Smithsonian, 189 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,080 and he was scoffed at all this, but then he 190 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,120 started to do research and he realized, my gosh, there's 191 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,279 something here. And this goes from colleagues in my professional life, 192 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,240 both in the Navy and when I worked at Noah. 193 00:10:38,279 --> 00:10:41,639 And that's what's absolutely remarkable. The only people who are 194 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,440 saying negative things about my speaking out are the well 195 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,919 known folks on social media who I believe are on 196 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,360 the payroll of some of the former government institutions or 197 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:56,080 potentially contractors that are working to actively debunk the phenomena. 198 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,919 And that's a whole nother storyline if we want to 199 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,519 talk to that, But make a point here, Martin quickly, 200 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,480 because our Science Advisory Council is entering into this with 201 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,519 basically two potential answers or results. One is these phenomena 202 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,879 represent adversary technology, and if that's the case, we got 203 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,720 some serious national security concerns, and therefore it does behoove 204 00:11:17,799 --> 00:11:20,840 us to openly research and study the nature and characteristics 205 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,200 of UAP. The other possibility is that it represents some 206 00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:29,480 non human intelligence offworld, not we are not alone. Conclusion, 207 00:11:29,879 --> 00:11:33,320 which is the biggest discovery in the history of science period, 208 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:36,279 so our options are quite important either way. 209 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, and that's why it's so hard to see 210 00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:44,480 it dismissed. And then we can go into talking about 211 00:11:44,919 --> 00:11:47,480 not talking too much about it, But those drone incursions, 212 00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:51,279 there's so many weird things that are just very strange 213 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,679 about that last year, and some people are still saying 214 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,279 that it's happening in different places, and I think that's 215 00:11:58,279 --> 00:12:02,759 still There's been all types of various reporting on that. 216 00:12:02,879 --> 00:12:06,399 Plus when there were actually incursions and bases and things 217 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,399 like that, then the FAA said no, nothing was happening, 218 00:12:09,399 --> 00:12:11,679 and then they said it was happening. So it's just 219 00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:13,960 so bizarre. I really, that's another whole puzzle. 220 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,519 Speaker 2: I wish I had more to say on that. 221 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: I don't. 222 00:12:17,159 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 2: I just don't know. But yes, it's concerning when we 223 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:24,440 have these drones or whatever they appear to be freely 224 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,840 maneuvering in our airspace with impunity. That's not a good 225 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,159 place to be in either situation. And again, that's our 226 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,879 intent is going to be, is to research all of 227 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:38,240 these sightings rigorously scientifically too, and it acquire as much 228 00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:39,120 data as possible. 229 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: Now, there was a case and I pardon me for 230 00:12:42,919 --> 00:12:44,320 not knowing what it was. But it had to do 231 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:47,960 with one of our subs and something was clocked I 232 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,679 think more than one us, soa some aware of. 233 00:12:50,759 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 2: Three different instances. Those are the cases that I reported. 234 00:12:54,279 --> 00:12:56,519 And this one instance was in the eighties and the 235 00:12:56,519 --> 00:12:59,879 North Atlantic during a very high strong storm, very high 236 00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:02,440 see states and ambient noise they call it from ways 237 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,960 breaking and there shouldn't have been an object detecting this submarine, 238 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,120 and there was an object that came by and closed 239 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,399 on them very rapidly, so much so that it had 240 00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:12,440 all the signatures of being a Russian torpedo. And they 241 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,200 had trained to avoid these, so they did an emergency 242 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,120 dive they called emergency deep maneuver and approaching near crushed 243 00:13:19,159 --> 00:13:21,639 depths because this was closing on them so rapidly. And 244 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,240 then when it became very close, the objects stalled and 245 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,440 then maneuvered it around the stern of the submarine and 246 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,639 then slowly exited the area. And they couldn't explain it. 247 00:13:31,399 --> 00:13:35,879 And that's happened twice. An another submarine officer, he's openly 248 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,519 public about it. It's posted on the web. His name 249 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,120 is Keith Mahaski retired as a captain in the Submarine Force, 250 00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:45,679 and he has this report is something very similar. Eighty 251 00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:48,519 knots was the recording speed on sonar and they formed 252 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,080 another emergency deep maneuver. And yes, so these this is 253 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:53,399 what we want to get to the bottom of. What 254 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,000 are these objects that they're either undersea warfare, threats of 255 00:13:57,159 --> 00:14:01,720 national significant or again anomaly is that we're not alone. 256 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: And I've heard Mark d' antonio talking about what they 257 00:14:06,159 --> 00:14:09,240 called a fast mover or something like that when he 258 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:12,399 was out on a test and he had mentioned two 259 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,039 it or not. So I don't know has anyone ever 260 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,440 mentioned anything of that type of speed. 261 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,879 Speaker 2: Other than him, And I can't verify if that term 262 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,879 is a standard term. I've heard him say as fast walkers. 263 00:14:23,919 --> 00:14:26,480 I believe, but I just I can't verify that because 264 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,720 that that never crossed my desk or I've never heard 265 00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:30,600 a report like that when I was in the Navy. 266 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, one last thing before we talk about your book, 267 00:14:34,759 --> 00:14:38,480 and that is I was thrilled that I made a 268 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,200 connection with you and Scott to sell the Undersea I 269 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,799 don't want. I don't know. He's like a superhuman person, 270 00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:49,480 five thousand hours a rebreather, or something like. It's statistics 271 00:14:49,559 --> 00:14:53,480 is twenty thousand hours under the water, which is just amazing, 272 00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:56,559 and I'm so glad that you two connected and are 273 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,039 interested in doing some exploration. That's great. 274 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,279 Speaker 2: He's really remarkable. It makes my resume listen pale in comparison, 275 00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:08,960 but his I think he has hundreds of submersible dives 276 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,720 in addition to scuba dives and rebreather dives. So yeah, 277 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,720 I'm excited to team up with him, and our goal 278 00:15:14,799 --> 00:15:19,679 is to start conducting some USOS search expeditions. That's a 279 00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:22,639 challenging thing because the data on these objects is still 280 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,879 lacking and sparse. Web to start somewhere, and he's got 281 00:15:25,919 --> 00:15:28,799 the credential to team up and hopefully do something and 282 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:30,360 discover some things. 283 00:15:30,519 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: Just for the listener and the watcher. Scott Cassell was 284 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,120 the first one to ever film the giant squid in 285 00:15:36,159 --> 00:15:38,600 the wild, first of all, and then when he was 286 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:40,600 on my show, he talked about an encounter and I 287 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,120 think it's one of the most downloaded shows I've ever 288 00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:45,679 had of a gold cube off the coast of Mexico 289 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,759 and the Sea Cortes. He was sixty five miles off shore. 290 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:52,000 He was a couple hundred feet down and he went 291 00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:54,919 down to four hundred feet with this, saying under intelligent 292 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,960 control of bright gold Cube. Pretty amazing. 293 00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:01,879 Speaker 2: But anyway, for your audience may not know about scuba diving, 294 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,480 that that dive is like climbing Mount Everest. It's so 295 00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:08,919 dangerous and so few people have dived that deep. He's 296 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,720 really superhuman and deserves a great deal of credit. 297 00:16:12,159 --> 00:16:14,759 Speaker 1: He almost had his arm ripped off from I can't 298 00:16:14,799 --> 00:16:16,559 remember the name of the type of squid. It's about 299 00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:19,480 a five foot long squid. They're very vicious. And a 300 00:16:19,559 --> 00:16:22,159 day later he was in a shark cage. Yeah. 301 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we actually share the experience. I and my 302 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,879 wife have both been cage diving with sharks off Guatealuba 303 00:16:29,039 --> 00:16:31,879 in Mexico. And that'll get your adrenaline up. But magnificent 304 00:16:31,919 --> 00:16:34,240 creatures and something very exciting to do. 305 00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, he says he treats him like a little dog, 306 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,080 a little doggy. 307 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're much the same because they follow up just 308 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,759 like it's like a beagle. And so you're in clear 309 00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:48,159 water and you're not bleeding, you you don't appear and 310 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,519 you don't appear to be like prey. Then they're really 311 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:53,759 not going to be very interesting humans because he just 312 00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:55,440 don't present like that. Tip people pray. 313 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, but the movies like Jaws and things like that, 314 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,320 doesn't They don't really help people in the way they 315 00:17:01,399 --> 00:17:04,880 look at sharks. But anyway, so let's talk about your book. 316 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,799 The title first, and what made you decide to write 317 00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:08,359 this book? 318 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: There you go here. It is Holding Fast and Heavy 319 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,519 seas appropriate from my career as an oceanographer. It's out 320 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,640 in July, July seventh, I think on bookshelves. I wrote 321 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,480 it because it's mostly about leadership. There's only a little 322 00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:24,839 bit about my UAP experience, just a small part in chapter, 323 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,400 but it's all about speaking truth to science. And of 324 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,640 course I recount the first half all my Navy career 325 00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:34,079 and the great people who taught me how to be 326 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,839 a better leader. So there are a lot of fun 327 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,599 see stories in it. And the second half is about 328 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:41,599 me leading the Science Agency Noah, the National Oceanic and 329 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,559 Atmospheric Administration during Trump's first term. Anybody who watches just 330 00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:50,200 a sliver of news nowadays knows that President Trump is 331 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,160 not a needy executive to work for, and so those 332 00:17:53,319 --> 00:17:57,319 I had challenges, and that's Holding Fast but as the 333 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,599 leader of NOAH, we had a number of really significant 334 00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:05,799 ocean related winds. We established new ocean marine protected areas 335 00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:08,200 called National Marine Sanctuaries for example, that are like the 336 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:13,000 National Parks underwater. We advanced a number of different strategies, 337 00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:16,920 for example, and plants to help repair dying coral reefs 338 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,519 in Florida. And then we worked on this other area 339 00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:24,880 that we call our Blue Economy Strategic Plan, which is 340 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:30,000 really helping the American shore side, coastal and ocean economies 341 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,119 and great Lakes advanced with our data and services, which 342 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,400 is a great news story. All of those were good wins. 343 00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:38,279 Of course, the media at the time, because it was 344 00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:42,079 anything good that Trump Agency were doing, they wouldn't report 345 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,119 on it. And so I used my book to tell 346 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,839 a story of really making a number of really big 347 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,400 wins when it was challenging. We had budget cuts and 348 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,519 a lot of firings like you've read about in the 349 00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:55,200 federal government when the Trump administration had the second time around, 350 00:18:55,559 --> 00:18:58,200 But we persevered, And that's the book is about this 351 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,839 leadership when it's difficult, and staying true to science because 352 00:19:01,839 --> 00:19:02,960 we were a science agency. 353 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so important, and science isn't something I've seen 354 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,880 this happen unfortunately, things like Neil de Grassis and and 355 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,000 things like that. Science should always be open minded and 356 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,920 not trying to fit things in place in which he 357 00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:21,240 had previously always done. In the with the UFO topic 358 00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:23,440 that there was really nothing to it, and well we 359 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,680 don't really need to go into that. But can we 360 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,839 talk about in the book? What is the shopgate incident? 361 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: Okay, yea, I will. 362 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: Gate is shoppagate? Is that what I think it is? 363 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,319 With him doing them thing on the on the math, Yeah. 364 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,759 Speaker 2: I remember that the biggest biggest challenge re encountered during 365 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,960 that time period. They call it Sharpie Gate because happened 366 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,000 was there was a time when this hurricane named Dorian 367 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:55,119 was approaching the US and the Trump was tweeting about 368 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,839 the storm and giving updates, and at one point he 369 00:19:58,839 --> 00:20:01,400 he looked at it spread of the models, the spaghetti 370 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,359 plot that has been advertised of hurricane tracks, and a 371 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,160 few of the models showed the storm going into Alabama. However, 372 00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:13,079 most of the models had the storm turning around the 373 00:20:13,079 --> 00:20:16,359 Carolinas and going off to the Atlantic. And that's eventually 374 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,400 what happened. But Trump, like he would do he often 375 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,519 tweeted with old information, and he mentioned that Alabama was 376 00:20:23,559 --> 00:20:27,279 at risk. So our National Weather Service, which is responsible 377 00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:31,079 for keeping all citizens safe all around the country, the 378 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,200 office in Alabama. What happened is they started getting all 379 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,599 these calls after Trump tweeted that, asking if Alabama was 380 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,559 going to be at risk and if they needed to evacuate, 381 00:20:39,599 --> 00:20:42,599 and so they ended up posting Alabama's going to be fine. 382 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,799 The storm is not going to affect the state. And 383 00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,000 again Trump tweeted this based on old information. And then 384 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,200 what happened, though, is that he had a press conference 385 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,799 and he wanted to justify his tweet of days ago, 386 00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:59,200 and he had a staffer drew on the official forecast 387 00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:03,039 track that now actual hurricane center under Noah, under the 388 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,240 National Weather Service. That he drew an extension of this 389 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,160 official track around Alabama, and it appeared to be with 390 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,960 his sharpie. And that's what he signed all his executive 391 00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:18,000 orders and whatnot, with a big heaving sharpie. In fact, 392 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:21,160 my presidential appointment letter is hanging right up here and 393 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,319 it's signed by Trump with a big sharpie. And so 394 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,640 of course American scientists went nuts because here is an 395 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,720 official forecast product by a science agency that affects millions 396 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,519 of people in terms of their safety, and like a 397 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,680 forgive me for those who would really admire President Trump, 398 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,000 but it was he was being like a child who 399 00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:44,400 was just trying to defend what he said with an 400 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,160 official scientific product. So that just ended up creating a 401 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,480 storm of controversy and scandal. And then there was a 402 00:21:51,519 --> 00:21:54,519 further extension about it that I'm not going to address here, 403 00:21:54,839 --> 00:21:58,279 but some political officials in the Department of Commerce and 404 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:04,119 in my agency ended up defending Trump's Trump's statements and whatnot. 405 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,920 And that's all in the book. And that was a 406 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,559 big challenge. And again, like I said, we really were 407 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:13,599 in a crisis mode because so many people were upset 408 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,119 with what we were doing. And I was ready to 409 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,079 quit over this, but I had individuals in the National 410 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,400 Weather Service come to me and say, Hey, if there 411 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,400 was ever a time where we needed solid leadership, leaders 412 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,039 with integrity, it's now, so please don't lead. And that 413 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,440 happened on more than one occasion during my tenure at NOAH. 414 00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, So speaking of Trump, he's at least you 415 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:40,960 said earlier, even if you don't like him, you have 416 00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:45,319 to congratulate when things are done right, And I never 417 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,359 get political on this show, and I don't pay attention 418 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,799 to politics. I just it's better for me not too 419 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,680 so I just say out of all that. But still 420 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,279 I will tell you that if he seemingly is open 421 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,880 to transparency, now, I don't know if he's going to 422 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,920 have any roadblocks like often happens. It seems to often 423 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,759 happen when someone tries to find out information like this. 424 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,759 How do you feel this is going. 425 00:23:09,519 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 2: So far better than ever before? You have to admit, 426 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,359 look at the progress we've made, with files being released, 427 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,759 with the Science Advisory Council being established, public statements and 428 00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:23,440 now granted his personal public statements or as president pardon me, 429 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,920 where he just basically said, here are all the files. 430 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,160 It's up to you to decide. I think that was 431 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,680 a little like a blank. I'm not sure that was. 432 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,599 I don't know what to do with that right now. 433 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,559 But all I know is he's charged a body that 434 00:23:35,599 --> 00:23:37,400 I'm a part of now to go do the research 435 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,400 on it. So at least that's happened and now so 436 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,240 it remains to be seen. It remains to be seen 437 00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,039 how much liberty and license will have to conduct that 438 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,480 kind of research. We're going to go and do the 439 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,400 best we can with what we have and follow our 440 00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:53,079 charter to make recommendations about data to release and information 441 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,480 to share with us, and so we'll see. There is 442 00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:01,559 a concern, of course, any minutes, whether it be a 443 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,799 Republican or Democrat, they put out information that's advantageous to 444 00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:11,559 their position, and so we don't it's some people think 445 00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:14,000 that this is possibly just so he can make the 446 00:24:14,039 --> 00:24:17,920 statement that he's being transparent and more transparent, but maybe 447 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,799 real information is not going to be provided, But there's 448 00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:23,200 no we can't really say that way conclusively or not. 449 00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:25,920 So I think we just need to follow the Council's 450 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,079 work and research, and if real information starts coming forward 451 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,400 in real progress and UAP research occurs, then will be 452 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,039 in a good place. 453 00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:39,799 Speaker 1: Often wonder if there's some things that are somehow tucked 454 00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:43,799 away in a way that cannot be discovered, that maybe 455 00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:45,440 a little too much. Now I'm just going to give 456 00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:49,559 us For instance, Matthew Rogers was in Navy intelligence, but 457 00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:52,039 he was also on board of the ship and I 458 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:54,279 cannot remember the name of it, but when the gimbal 459 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,960 happened and he watched that over and over again while 460 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,079 he was on board, and he said, when he went 461 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,720 up to office or officer or whatever, they had color 462 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:06,000 video of it. They had video of it, not the 463 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,720 floor video. So he said, I saw that they were 464 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,759 actually watching it, and where is that? Where would where 465 00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:14,839 do those things go? That really puzzles me. 466 00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: Right, So I know of other data video evidence that 467 00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:23,119 has not been shared that are more conclusive in terms 468 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,920 of their resolution and content about the anomalist nature of 469 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,440 the objects being no possibility that it's our technology, is 470 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,880 what I mean. So I know that that kind of 471 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,200 video evidence exists, we've not yet seen that. For example, 472 00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:40,599 let me share and share a story with you after 473 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,119 I was giving a lecture at Yale University and I 474 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,079 never say no to a college or university that asked 475 00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:48,279 me to speak on this topic. So that's the next 476 00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:51,079 generation and they're open, and I think that's really what's 477 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,359 going to move the needle. So if any of you 478 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,079 are out there that represent university departments or or affiliated groups, 479 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,799 I'm really open to visiting and putting this message out. Anyway, 480 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,920 A person came down from the audience afterwards and he said, Hey, 481 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,799 I was a sailor on a helicopter squadron that was 482 00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:11,440 flying off the USS Dwight the Eisenhower, a nuclear powered 483 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,359 aircraft carrier in twenty twenty one, and we were on 484 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,640 deployment and I think, I believe the Middle East, and 485 00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:21,559 he was called, he was called to get the helicopter 486 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,319 ready to fly, and he was a crew chief, by 487 00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:27,640 the way, senior enlisted person. And it turned out that 488 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,119 the mission they had was to collect floor video data 489 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,599 of a UAP and this was not just a some 490 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,000 kind of spherical orb that was a morphous if you will. 491 00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:42,039 This was a very clear metallic sphere the size of 492 00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:45,839 a Waymo vehicle and that so we have very clear 493 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,160 video evidence of these metallic spheres. The most soul ORB 494 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,599 has been that's been declassified and shared, and there are 495 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,319 many like it. I think getting more data about those 496 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,359 and how they operate and do what they do would 497 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:05,119 could potentially really reveal some phenomenal either technology or just 498 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,920 phenomena that I want to see and study. 499 00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:09,279 Speaker 1: I don't know if you were in the room when 500 00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:12,680 I asked the question, and at the forum the other day, 501 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,920 where's the good stuff? Because that's what people are asking 502 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,400 me and saying to me. I don't think we've seen 503 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,000 it all, but I'm hoping that there'll be transparency all 504 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:24,119 the way through this thing. That's really the only way 505 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,759 we're really going to move forward, and I think your 506 00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:29,559 efforts are going to help a lot with that. 507 00:27:29,559 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 2: That's our goal. And we know that data exists, they're 508 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,759 there is good stuff out there, no question about it, 509 00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:37,880 and in fact, and we know of course that we 510 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,119 have retrieved crash vehicles and that's how Prudolph stated that 511 00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:45,759 on Jill Rogan and I trust him completely. So this 512 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,039 is we know we have these programs and the good 513 00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:52,240 stuff will be video evidence of that and even materials 514 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,200 to study in a lab. 515 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,039 Speaker 1: I was really shocked after talking to him the other 516 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,319 day that he's ninety years old. He's so sharp to 517 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,119 really with it. You't believe. 518 00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 2: He's a fantastic, great human being too, just a quality 519 00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:09,640 human And I just got off a call with him. 520 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,119 He has a he's developing a communications technology that's very advanced, 521 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,480 more than anything I've ever seen. And we were just 522 00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:19,720 speaking with a potential, very accomplished and wealthy investor on 523 00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:22,400 there and he led the whole presentation. And yeah, he's 524 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,160 ninety years old. Quite an inspiration on every level. 525 00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: Now, do you think that AI will help in research 526 00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:33,920 in the future. I personally think it can help in 527 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,160 a lot of ways. But in the research that you're doing, 528 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,160 is there any type of work that you can do 529 00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:41,680 using AI? Oh? 530 00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:44,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a funny thing about AI being addressed. 531 00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:47,839 It's this big frontier technology wish it is. But I 532 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,319 did a master's thesis that I started working on that 533 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,079 in nineteen eighty nine that used machine learning to study 534 00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:57,039 satellite images of the ocean, And so I developed a 535 00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:00,799 big pattern matching algorithm and work and other type of 536 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,079 AI topics, and so it's not very new. There's new 537 00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:08,119 developments for sure, and certainly large language models are new 538 00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:10,799 were but it's just the fact that our computing power 539 00:29:10,839 --> 00:29:13,559 is so vast and that the models will begin advancing 540 00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:16,200 so rapidly. And now we're using AI to write AI 541 00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:18,519 code like vibe coding. If you've ever heard of that, 542 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:21,119 look it up. It's a crazy So I think the 543 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,599 answer is definitely. Certainly, with image and video data, machine 544 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,960 learning can do things that human analysts cannot. And then 545 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,319 I think we can apply AI in differentely novel ways. 546 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,640 Large language models can be used to study open source 547 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,920 reporting and develop trends and patterns. So I think absolutely yes. 548 00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:44,200 A new and more interesting area of thought is the 549 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,960 intersection of AI and the non human intelligence or NHI 550 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,960 that we know have controlled the uat. Diana Pasilka is 551 00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:56,680 professor of Religious Studies at University of North Carolina Wilmington, 552 00:29:56,759 --> 00:29:59,640 and her new book The Others, I believe is the 553 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,119 first complete treatment of that intersection AI and any shock 554 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,480 and it is a fantastic read. I got the honor 555 00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:10,240 of doing a review for her, and so I readers 556 00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:13,240 to check that book out after they checked my book out. 557 00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: I was I was kind of disappointed she was going 558 00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:19,519 to be a contact that desert something happened, but I 559 00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:21,880 was literally looking forward to meet meeting her. She had 560 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,480 been on the show in the past. And but yeah, 561 00:30:24,599 --> 00:30:26,839 that that sounds that's the book I'm going to get. 562 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,000 I didn't realize. I remember seeing it briefly but not 563 00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:32,480 really looking at it. But that if that's I'm very 564 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,000 fascinated and all that, and I think that's really yes, yes, 565 00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:39,720 And do you feel as though you might have inspired 566 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,240 any other people to look at this topic. You talked 567 00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:44,680 about your brother in law, but other people like that 568 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,960 any colleagues many. 569 00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many books from my different 570 00:30:50,319 --> 00:30:54,480 professional and devil that one me and said, hey, we're 571 00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:57,839 looking at this. Wow, but what been fun? And I 572 00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:01,680 now and so that's I think I continue to give. 573 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,519 Speaker 1: I have to tell you this is a silly story. 574 00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:08,119 But my sister could care less about this top topic 575 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,680 at all. And my brother in law, her husband was 576 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,319 a scientist for a long time at Lost Almost Labs, 577 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,599 and he's I told him what I was doing, and 578 00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:18,480 I says, it's a possible extra trust her. I don't 579 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,519 know what it is, but I never say it's the aliens. 580 00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:24,319 I don't really know. But he says, well, it's very 581 00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:28,160 possible like that. But he doesn't really care. He doesn't 582 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,799 really It's nothing that he's interested in. And that's okay. 583 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,680 But my sister, I tried to show some things that 584 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,240 I thought you're gonna look at this. The aerial phenomenon 585 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:39,759 of the aerial school incident, to me is one of 586 00:31:39,799 --> 00:31:43,519 the top incidents that ever happened. And she's what's for dinner? 587 00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:46,839 And why do you think that is? With so many people? 588 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,799 It just baffles me. Do they have to have an 589 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,160 encounter like I did? To turn the page and to 590 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:54,680 take a look at this. What do you think it 591 00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:57,920 is why there's so few people interested? We're just a 592 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,680 small niche of society. It's interest in this. 593 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: Look at the film that, Yeah, it's why acclaim, and 594 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,559 that in itself shows the popularity of this topic. And 595 00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:13,359 then there's the UFO website for the Department of War 596 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,839 that has over a billion and a half his that's 597 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:22,000 true a book bar in terms of acceptance and awareness. 598 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:24,599 Speaker 1: I guess it's I guess why I'm saying that is 599 00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:26,839 that when I'm in the public, talking to the public 600 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,960 out there and around, it's just so few people. If 601 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,920 you bring up the topic, sometimes you get the rolling 602 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,000 eyes and some people say yeah. But then when I 603 00:32:34,039 --> 00:32:37,119 ask the question, have you seen the hearings in Washington, 604 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,279 d C? Have you seen what's going on? No? I 605 00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:42,440 had no idea. So maybe it's the media. I don't 606 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,519 know what it is. I know News Nation is doing 607 00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:48,240 a wonderful job. Fox News covers it, CNN every once 608 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,440 in a while does But I just can't understand why 609 00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:55,200 no major networks are on such a fascinating topic. And 610 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,599 I love what Ross Coldheart has done with News Nation 611 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,279 and the coverage of this. 612 00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:06,279 Speaker 2: I'm this is just so intrinsically fascinating, and that's why 613 00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:08,400 I pursued it, is I understand the truth. 614 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, And I don't know. I've said a number 615 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:14,240 of times in the show I've kind of given up 616 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,039 on thinking that we'll ever have disclosure because when I've 617 00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:19,440 seen this. I've been doing this for fifteen years, the 618 00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:23,039 show for fifteen years, and I've seen like movements forward 619 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,960 and back and forward and back, and then some real 620 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440 bloopers some people have done over the years. I don't 621 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,400 even want to get into it, but just that makes 622 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,480 us look like tenfoil hatters type of thing. This time, 623 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,640 I want to say, things feel a little different and 624 00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:42,079 I just feel like maybe I will understand. But my 625 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,400 thing that I bring up often in the show is 626 00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:47,400 I don't think anyone really knows one hundred percent. I 627 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,039 think possibly some parts of the government may know a 628 00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:53,519 lot more than we know, but I don't know if 629 00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:55,319 they know the whole picture. And I would just wonder 630 00:33:55,359 --> 00:33:56,559 what your thoughts are in that. 631 00:33:57,559 --> 00:34:00,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do believe they're apocable to the government, and 632 00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:03,079 the government is very good about can part many any 633 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,240 different special actress programs, but just as a data play. 634 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,280 I met with the former director or commanding officer of 635 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,840 the Naval Intelligence while he was still this is twenty 636 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,679 twenty two or so, when we were talking about some 637 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,480 common ocean related in clues. So when I at the 638 00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:24,320 end of the meeting, I brought up the AP and 639 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,159 he just looked at me with all seriousness and says, 640 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,920 we still don't know what they are. 641 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: Ah. 642 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,519 Speaker 2: So that's one data point that at least at that level, 643 00:34:33,559 --> 00:34:36,280 and you would think he would be read intel everything 644 00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:41,719 like they were still uncertainty, more research and studies. 645 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,519 Speaker 1: I was the MC at the move On event out 646 00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:50,239 in Cleveland and twenty twenty four and I met with 647 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,519 a former CIA member and a former FBI member that 648 00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:57,400 were there out of interest John and I sat with 649 00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:02,000 them and we had an incredible conversation and he mentioned 650 00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:06,159 the stove piping the FBI or retired FBI, the stove 651 00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:10,840 piping that these agencies do and which leads to trouble 652 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,719 like nine to eleven things like that because the information 653 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,719 is kept so carefully. I'm wondering if that is the 654 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,440 same and when it comes to this topic, I think 655 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,199 so four you have. 656 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 2: That with special a special and you do what we 657 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,760 know if we look at the pentagonmatic files, all videos, 658 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,519 classics for years, so we know we're sting a lot 659 00:35:33,519 --> 00:35:40,039 of information post which if that's what's good. And again 660 00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:45,079 the power thing that there are these in the atmosphere 661 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,199 this year. It's something that American people have a right 662 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:48,440 to know. 663 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,280 Speaker 1: Now as far as I know, it's something like the 664 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,079 water on the Earth or something like of the earth 665 00:35:55,159 --> 00:35:58,079 or something like that. So but I think we only 666 00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:02,719 know something like twelve or twenty percent of the ocean 667 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,000 bottom something like that. 668 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 2: We have mapped the ocean sheaf or or about twenty 669 00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:11,719 seven pretended it to modern standards, which means where they 670 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:18,840 really them sonar well depth measure man PPS or a 671 00:36:19,199 --> 00:36:23,119 so on the position that's and then the ocean volumes 672 00:36:23,159 --> 00:36:32,159 even less rarely observe volume with either drone or remotely 673 00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:35,320 operative vehicle. So that's a lot of water that's beach 674 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,199 part of the plant when nothing about it. 675 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,679 Speaker 1: And so there's all these people that have been saying, oh, 676 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,480 they have these things undersea and all that. Logically it 677 00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:46,599 doesn't make any sense, like why would they want to 678 00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:50,840 live under pressure and how and in the dark pitch 679 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,639 black down there, just a few hundred feet down and 680 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,719 what would be the attraction to being there and the 681 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,360 only attraction at all would be the vastness and to 682 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,159 be away from being seen obviously. 683 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,159 Speaker 2: These crap then do what they do and rid angle 684 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,480 turns just need to accelerate some They a one of 685 00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:13,639 them going in there the water and wets our own 686 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:21,079 vehicles to do. They're pretty you're allowed them to potentially 687 00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:25,039 do that. In my opinion though it's pretty obvio. 688 00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: They want you to remain a root thing. 689 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 2: No, you riding on the lights help down? 690 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and. 691 00:37:33,639 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 2: So the supposed to be where lied they undertacted long 692 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,360 periods of time would g ocean. 693 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd see that. One of the things that people 694 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,559 say when you talk about that they're elusive is they say, 695 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,360 not come they have lights. That's a lot of people 696 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,719 like will say that. And one person that a researcher 697 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,360 that I had and said might have something to do 698 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,239 with propulsion of some type. But I but they have 699 00:37:58,519 --> 00:38:01,039 had all types of lights on them, and bizarre doesn't 700 00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:06,119 really fit with trying to be away from visual. 701 00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 2: I would recommend your leaders rely he investigating so many 702 00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:20,639 and there is there is a phenomena that was a 703 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:27,079 limited way, and that's that's when you see why various maneuvers. 704 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,639 And again it doesn't seemed to want to be a 705 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:36,159 full connecting and apple fietal awareness by the ens controlling 706 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,800 we're just right now. It's still is deal of un 707 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,239 thirty and that's why we are going to be researching 708 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:43,559 the phenomena more. 709 00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:46,599 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things you're talking earlier about 710 00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:49,280 going in and out of the sea, and I know 711 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,599 that it's been witnessed a lot that there's no splash 712 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,199 or there's no slowing down because the one in was 713 00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:57,519 it Puerto rican off Puerto Rico. I can't remember them 714 00:38:57,639 --> 00:39:00,400 where it was, but it went into the water and 715 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,440 the camera was following where it would be if it 716 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,480 didn't go into the water and came right back up 717 00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:07,440 with the same speed. You hear about things like that, 718 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:11,000 then you hear about these things taking off at a 719 00:39:11,039 --> 00:39:15,920 tremendous speed supersonic without doing a sonic boom, and all 720 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,800 these things. They just seem to make no sense. So 721 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,079 I don't know what it is, but I don't think 722 00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:25,559 it's from here exactly. 723 00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:27,639 Speaker 2: And I think the way to characterize it best not 724 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,000 that there's some new going on. 725 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:31,679 Speaker 1: Is that there. 726 00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:35,199 Speaker 2: Engineering not learn. 727 00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: How to do yeah, or something discovered in physics so 728 00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:41,960 we haven't couldn't imagined maybe, but this has been a 729 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,159 wonderful conversation. The name of the book is holding fast 730 00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:46,000 and Heavy seas. 731 00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 2: That's a metaphor the fact that I paid the lever 732 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,760 challenges leading the Satia and a lot of times I 733 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:54,159 wanted to. 734 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: To I think the I want to thank you so 735 00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:02,280 much for everything you do. It's been such a pleasure 736 00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:04,559 to have you on and to meet you in person. 737 00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:06,920 It's been a real pleasure. And thanks so much. 738 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 2: Hey, Martin, thanks for having me ither thing. I closed 739 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,400 by saying happy birthday, and Donna, I know we're having 740 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,239 that special book comes out so invested both of you. 741 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: That's right, we have our birthday the same day. I 742 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,000 don't want to get into it too much, but it 743 00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:26,239 is very interesting and thanks so much to take care now. 744 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,199 Speaker 2: Thank you great to be very Martin