Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What what's going to happen?
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: What I going up to help Welcome to the Occult
Speaker 1: Rejects this episode. I got a few of us with
Speaker 1: us tonight, and I was looking forward to this. And
Speaker 1: I know last time when she was on, she had
Speaker 1: mentioned that she had a book coming, so I was
Speaker 1: very very much looking forward to getting her back on
Speaker 1: to talk about that. You know, it was left having
Speaker 1: people on with books. And I will say this one
Speaker 1: I actually did start reading, so I don't so. And
Speaker 1: I also say there was a lot of things just
Speaker 1: in like the first fifteen to twenty pages that sorted
Speaker 1: like making me google shit, start thinking about stuff as
Speaker 1: an occultist. So if you are into the occult, I
Speaker 1: actually I can just tell you from the beginning of
Speaker 1: the book is some really interesting facts in there that
Speaker 1: you may not know about that could get you down
Speaker 1: different avenues and rabbit holes.
Speaker 3: But before we get to her, we will.
Speaker 1: Let everybody else plug their shows first, Ethan Indigo, let
Speaker 1: everybody know what is going on where they can find
Speaker 1: all the amazing stuff.
Speaker 2: Please, well, thank you so much Snick for involvement, and
Speaker 2: thanks to everyone for being here, always stoke to communicate
Speaker 2: with everyone. Gina, I know this is gonna be awesome
Speaker 2: exploration of symbolism. I am a writer, author, and the
Speaker 2: usual suspects trying to promote stuff and share interesting things
Speaker 2: Ethan Indigo Smith exoteric and esoteric writing, so I always
Speaker 2: appreciate communication.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you very much, sir. And Lisa the occult
Speaker 1: rejectmated scientist. What is going on?
Speaker 4: How's it going? I'm very excited to be here. I
Speaker 4: finally get to be on the same screen as Broke
Speaker 4: and Gina. Because I heard the last one and it
Speaker 4: was a lot of fun. I kind of felt a
Speaker 4: little jelly because I was But anyway, I am excited
Speaker 4: to hear about this topic. And the only thing I
Speaker 4: want to plug is a cult research Institute dot org.
Speaker 4: A couple of our contributors, a couple of the Rejects
Speaker 4: contribute to the site, and so if you'd like to
Speaker 4: take your content in literary form, please check us out
Speaker 4: at a cult research Institute dot org.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you very much. And Brooke, please let everybody
Speaker 1: know what your deal is and where they can find
Speaker 1: all your amazing work as well.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 6: I'm also very excited to be here and share the
Speaker 6: stage with you guys tonight and hear more about your experiences. Gina,
Speaker 6: I'm really excited to dive into that. You can find
Speaker 6: me on Instagram at Dark Florida Podcast, I have a
Speaker 6: show we talk about all things crazy from Florida and beyond.
Speaker 6: So this is right up my alley.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for joining us, Brooke, and last
Speaker 1: but not least, Jjvance, not the Vice President.
Speaker 5: Good evening, sir, Nick Greedy, Sir, appreciate the invite as
Speaker 5: always fellow fellow rejects. Always enjoy conversation with you all.
Speaker 5: So looking forward to it. And Gina, nice to meet you, ma'am.
Speaker 5: JJ Vance, host of Operation GCD and more notably not
Speaker 5: the Vice President. Got a Operation GCD lives on Wednesdays
Speaker 5: Fridays with Nick Well roundtable conspiracy culture discussion and then
Speaker 5: Operation GCD Sunday's Patreon where I tell tales of true
Speaker 5: crime and high weirdness that I've encountered in my adventures.
Speaker 5: Now looking forward to the conversation.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, thank you very much, sir. And finally we
Speaker 1: got Gina Black the book that she has. I didn't
Speaker 1: plug the name of that yet. It is etched in
Speaker 1: Stone and in his decoding Hidden Meetings and Cemeteries, which
Speaker 1: now people may understand why I liked it so much.
Speaker 1: I'm really huge into architecture, and who doesn't like graveyards
Speaker 1: and senies. So I mean, for me as an occultist,
Speaker 1: how I look at a lot of art and architecture
Speaker 1: and just you know, stuff like that, sculptures. I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like she's saying, hidden meeting, hidden meaning.
Speaker 1: So I was very very happy to you know, get
Speaker 1: her on and to talk about this, and she gave
Speaker 1: me the book. So that's awesome.
Speaker 3: Gina, thank you so much for coming on. That is
Speaker 3: what's up?
Speaker 1: Can you please let everybody know what your deal is
Speaker 1: and where they can find all your amazing stuff.
Speaker 7: Yes, Hi, my name is Gina, and I recently wrote
Speaker 7: the book that we're talking about tonight.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for having me, and I'm so
Speaker 8: happy to be here with all of you guys.
Speaker 7: And so I am a paranormal investigator, photographer, and author
Speaker 7: living in South Florida. I am close to Fort Lauderdale,
Speaker 7: Miami area, and in addition to the book about cemeteries,
Speaker 7: I'm also an investigator. I co founded a Paranormal team,
Speaker 7: and I enjoy experimenting and also helping some local locations
Speaker 7: close to where I live, as far as fundraising and
Speaker 7: getting people in to learn about the paranormal by investigating
Speaker 7: through fundraisers.
Speaker 8: So I love all things spooky.
Speaker 7: I love a good mystery, which is why I got
Speaker 7: into this, the whole topic of writing this book, and
Speaker 7: I'm just really excited to talk about it with you guys.
Speaker 1: Thank you having me no, thank you very much. I
Speaker 1: know you probably got into this in the first episode,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately we're going to go back to it again.
Speaker 1: I guess what was it that made you write this book,
Speaker 1: besides the fact that you love, you know, graveyards of semitories.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, it started around the pandemic when I
Speaker 7: was kind of, you know, along with everybody else, you know,
Speaker 7: going through the isolation of all of that, and feeling
Speaker 7: a little cooped up and a little in need of
Speaker 7: a project. And I decided, you know, to take out
Speaker 7: my nikon and I was just taking photos for fun,
Speaker 7: and I decided, you know, I'll go to a cemetery
Speaker 7: that's a quie, a place that I can kind of
Speaker 7: be on my own and still have some space to
Speaker 7: be creative, so I started taking pictures and I started
Speaker 7: noticing more and more on the headstones in this particular
Speaker 7: historical cemetery that there was.
Speaker 8: A lot of repetitive art.
Speaker 7: And as somebody who I have an art background and
Speaker 7: photography is just one of the things I do in
Speaker 7: the art field, I really started looking into it more
Speaker 7: and more, and hence that's how I kind of found
Speaker 7: myself down the rabbit hole with cemeteries and the beautiful
Speaker 7: artwork that is inside of them.
Speaker 8: And I know I.
Speaker 7: Would I travel a lot, so I started to go
Speaker 7: on tours, historical tours. I started talking to people, and
Speaker 7: it's one of those topics that if you find yourself
Speaker 7: in a cemetery and you happen to come across somebody
Speaker 7: who's a volunteer there or someone who's a docent, or
Speaker 7: someone who whatever the story is, why they're there, a
Speaker 7: lot of times people are very passionate about sharing the
Speaker 7: history and the stories with you. So that's kind of
Speaker 7: how I started learning more and more of the hidden meetings,
Speaker 7: and I began talking about it on Instagram and TikTok,
Speaker 7: and I really didn't think it was going to get
Speaker 7: much of a response. At all because I figured, okay,
Speaker 7: if you fellow weirdos might enjoy this topic.
Speaker 8: But lo and behold, it kind of launched my page.
Speaker 7: I really started getting a lot of followers after I
Speaker 7: started talking about this, So it was a pretty neat
Speaker 7: experience to kind of make that connection with a lot
Speaker 7: of people.
Speaker 1: That is great. Uh, you know, it was interesting around
Speaker 1: the time I think I had, you know, came across
Speaker 1: your work. I you know, I had been filming it.
Speaker 1: I had went to Yale a few times and filmed,
Speaker 1: and I did the cemetery over there. I can't remember
Speaker 1: the name of the cemetery, New Haven, I think it
Speaker 1: is or whatever.
Speaker 3: And then like I had, uh, for.
Speaker 1: Some reason, just thought about going to like the cemetery
Speaker 1: at Huntington, Oh Bay where I was. I knew there
Speaker 1: was some like old old people there, and that's when
Speaker 1: I had started noticing, I'm like, wait, I still like
Speaker 1: that same artwork and design on a different tombstone over
Speaker 1: and yell. And then I sort of realizing, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I wonder what's like, what's up with that? I started
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and like literally not too long after that,
Speaker 1: it came across your account and That's why I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: I was like, she's like looking at the same shit
Speaker 1: that I just started noticing myself. You know, she's going
Speaker 1: on about so I just thought it was perfect timing.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I again, like even even when I
Speaker 1: went to Yale, there were some really crazy, wild like
Speaker 1: headstones there that I just don't think it's our tick.
Speaker 1: Like I was just bored and just came up with this,
Speaker 1: and you know, this is this is a vision I
Speaker 1: had when I was sleeping a stone, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: buy that.
Speaker 3: You know, it's just it's very elaborate.
Speaker 1: But uh, I guess is there if somebody did ask
Speaker 1: in the chat, and I'm pretty sure that, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's probably multiple places. I don't think I just went
Speaker 1: to one place. Somebody's asking which city is represented in
Speaker 1: the book. I'm assuming you went to a bunch of
Speaker 1: different places. I don't know, if you want to get
Speaker 1: into that, places that you've been to, maybe where you
Speaker 1: started to notice that type.
Speaker 7: Of Absolutely, you know, just a couple of notable locations
Speaker 7: that you'll see photography my photography in the book. One
Speaker 7: of my favorites in Paris is Pierre la Chase, and
Speaker 7: that is one of the largest cemeteries and one of
Speaker 7: the most visited cemeteries in the world, and most notably
Speaker 7: a lot of people know it because it is the
Speaker 7: home of Jim Morrison's grave, and.
Speaker 8: That was one of my favorites.
Speaker 7: That's actually the cover of the book is one of
Speaker 7: the mausoleums from that from that cemetery.
Speaker 8: I also have been to most of the cemeteries in.
Speaker 7: Orleans, but the one that inspired me as far as
Speaker 7: the photography and kind of getting me into it, it
Speaker 7: was actually in Fort Lauderdale, and so that that would
Speaker 7: be the Greenwood Cemetery in Fort Lauderdale, and that one
Speaker 7: is home to Leslie Nielsen, which is a kind of
Speaker 7: I was looking up celebrities in my area and I
Speaker 7: found out he was there along with a couple of
Speaker 7: other local pioneer families. So that's the cemetery that really
Speaker 7: kind of got me into the photography end of it.
Speaker 7: I also really loved and you'll see a lot of
Speaker 7: my photography from Sleepy Hollow in New York.
Speaker 8: And another one that I talk a lot about is
Speaker 8: a few of the.
Speaker 7: London cemeteries, most notably the Highgate Cemetery and Brompton, So
Speaker 7: there's a bunch of different cemeteries from all over the
Speaker 7: world in the in the book.
Speaker 1: Now, did you notice, obviously, so you were one that
Speaker 1: you went out of the country, did you notice some
Speaker 1: things from there that you're like, oh, I noticed that
Speaker 1: same type of art from ones that you've seen here,
Speaker 1: or anything like that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I.
Speaker 7: Think in the UK we have a lot of parallels
Speaker 7: with our American cemeteries of the Victorian era, specifically from
Speaker 7: the UK to the US. But I think a lot
Speaker 7: of other countries will have their own flavor, if you will,
Speaker 7: And you know, I would say Greece when I was
Speaker 7: recently in Athens and the surrounds, there were some very notable,
Speaker 7: notable aspects to their cemeteries that we don't have here.
Speaker 7: And in Japan they look very different than what we
Speaker 7: have here. In Mexico, They're very different. So I think
Speaker 7: everybody kind of has their own spin on it. But
Speaker 7: there are some factors that we have in common, which is,
Speaker 7: you know, an interesting I think nod to humanity in general.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had noticed there were certain like over in Yale,
Speaker 1: I noticed the same type of skull and design on
Speaker 1: the top of certain tombstones that are noticed in Huntington,
Speaker 1: and then when I sort of looking into it, I
Speaker 1: realized that that was kind of like specific to like German,
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like German.
Speaker 7: That is, and a lot of German immigrants in the
Speaker 7: United States.
Speaker 8: You'll see that in New England.
Speaker 7: And there was a shift between the time of the
Speaker 7: Puritans coming in and everybody, you know, as time went on.
Speaker 8: When they first arrived.
Speaker 7: You see a lot of very dark, very grim artwork
Speaker 7: on tombstone.
Speaker 8: You'll see the skull, You'll see the skull and crossbones.
Speaker 7: You'll see skulls with bat wings, and eventually they become softened,
Speaker 7: and you'll see a transition that happens where these same
Speaker 7: motifs get softer and softer, and instead of skulls, they
Speaker 7: turn into cherubs, and they'll turn into angels, and they'll
Speaker 7: turn into ladies' faces. So, because over time, death became
Speaker 7: not so much something that should be feared, but something
Speaker 7: that people wanted to celebrate and kind of look more
Speaker 7: upon in a romanticized way. So this shift is pretty interesting.
Speaker 7: But yes, a lot of the European influences can be
Speaker 7: seen specifically in New England.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Uh. One thing I wanted to get into like I know, uh,
Speaker 3: I really don't know.
Speaker 1: Where to start. I mean it was like like maybe
Speaker 1: I shoul look at the questions I was Tony, I
Speaker 1: was going to ask you about one thing I thought
Speaker 1: was interesting was the whole thing with the gates. I
Speaker 1: never had realized, like you know, you had said, I
Speaker 1: think the whole cemetery gate thing kind of came from
Speaker 1: like a Turkish Turkey.
Speaker 7: Yes, so I like to the way I sort of
Speaker 7: targeted the symbolism in the book is I wanted to
Speaker 7: find the origin, the beginning of the symbol. And if
Speaker 7: you look back through history, the first, the oldest sources
Speaker 7: of iron gates actually came from the area of Turkey,
Speaker 7: and it was the Hittites people and they built them
Speaker 7: around the perimeter of their of their kingdom, you know,
Speaker 7: their their villages, and eventually that design made its way
Speaker 7: around Europe and it became very popular during the Middle Ages.
Speaker 7: But when it came to cemeteries, you know a lot
Speaker 7: of Victorians were looking at things like castles and they
Speaker 7: were looking for just ornate elements to beautify these locations,
Speaker 7: and that's where we see the quintessential cemetery gates coming
Speaker 7: into play that we know and love, and they were
Speaker 7: a lot of people know them as the purpose of
Speaker 7: keeping people out. They were a very strong material that
Speaker 7: was hard to you know, you couldn't really bend your
Speaker 7: way through them. They were also kind of put in
Speaker 7: place to keep out animals and scavengers and people that
Speaker 7: were interested in grave robbing. But the Victorian reason for
Speaker 7: using them specifically for cemeteries is actually a superstitious one,
Speaker 7: and that is that a lot of people thought that
Speaker 7: iron was a material that could keep out witches, fairies,
Speaker 7: and spirits.
Speaker 8: So by putting.
Speaker 7: Iron gates around the entire property, you were preventing spirits
Speaker 7: from following you home. If you go inside the cemetery
Speaker 7: and then you see a family plot that's also surrounded
Speaker 7: with iron and a little door that was something that
Speaker 7: you had to keep shut when you walked in and
Speaker 7: you visited your family members and you mourned when you left,
Speaker 7: you closed the gate, and it was considered bad luck
Speaker 7: for anybody to keep the gates open because they were
Speaker 7: concerned with these energies following them home.
Speaker 8: So it was a superstitious factor as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I thought that was really interesting, And how
Speaker 1: would you say the word was again too, it goes
Speaker 1: back like I think goes back to like the word
Speaker 1: I forgot how what word.
Speaker 6: It was, like Biton.
Speaker 7: Written, Yeah, it's it's that's the original word.
Speaker 1: It's like mouldable.
Speaker 3: It means like pliable something like that.
Speaker 1: You said viable. Yeah, so you can bend it.
Speaker 7: You bend it with fire and you can you can
Speaker 7: mold the design. So it was I think it was
Speaker 7: something that really was awe inspiring during that time because
Speaker 7: everybody was working with with stones and with you know,
Speaker 7: things along that, and that was something very different and
Speaker 7: had a really unique look to it, and it was
Speaker 7: something that could be artistically adjusted for each you know,
Speaker 7: culture that was using it. So it was I'm not
Speaker 7: surprised why it took off as much as it did,
Speaker 7: and it was a material that people did have access
Speaker 7: to today.
Speaker 1: You probably want to ask anything before I keep going
Speaker 1: steel bead that I'm going to keep asking questions.
Speaker 4: I was going to ask if, and maybe you're going
Speaker 4: to get into this later, if you saw like a
Speaker 4: progression from the years like centuries or whatever, like the
Speaker 4: eighteen hundreds, whatever, whatever, and then now the nineteen hundred,
Speaker 4: did you see a progression of symbolism or even material
Speaker 4: used as a headstone itself.
Speaker 8: Yes, that's a really good question.
Speaker 7: So I think that marble has always been something that
Speaker 7: has been used in the wealthy and the elite classes.
Speaker 7: That was something a little bit more expensive back then,
Speaker 7: and it's still something that's more expensive now. It is
Speaker 7: beautiful and it doesn't get as dirty looking, it doesn't
Speaker 7: need quite as much attention and maintenance. So that's that's
Speaker 7: a material that has kind of withstand, you know, the
Speaker 7: test of time. But you know, as far as the
Speaker 7: designs go themselves, I think modern day headstones and monuments
Speaker 7: are becoming less and less ornate in nature.
Speaker 8: We're seeing more of.
Speaker 7: The flat style plaques and we're seeing very simple headstones.
Speaker 7: And I think a lot of that is because the
Speaker 7: death industry has gone so expensive that so many people,
Speaker 7: you know, I know, at least myself, having Facebook and
Speaker 7: other you know, social media apps. If somebody passes away suddenly,
Speaker 7: a lot of times you see GoFundMe because maybe a
Speaker 7: family cannot afford the cost of a funeral, or it
Speaker 7: was such a sudden thing that maybe didn't plan for it.
Speaker 7: And I think that the death industry has gotten so
Speaker 7: expensive for the average person that nobody really has the
Speaker 7: money to spend on these ornis designs anymore. And it's
Speaker 7: kind of unfortunate because you know, when you walk into
Speaker 7: an older cemetery, you see that character, that personality that
Speaker 7: you know, that interesting footnote that's left from time, and
Speaker 7: now it's becoming more and more, I would.
Speaker 8: Say, not as unique.
Speaker 7: So that's really the most the trends that I've seen,
Speaker 7: and that really is something that I think, as.
Speaker 8: Far as time wise goes, maybe.
Speaker 7: After the nineteen fifties the nineteen sixties, just from the
Speaker 7: cemeteries I've seen, there is a little bit of decline
Speaker 7: in the artistic designs of the headstones.
Speaker 4: I think he nailed it with the industry that it
Speaker 4: seems like there's probably more emphasis or more money being
Speaker 4: spent on the casket and the service and then come
Speaker 4: the headstone. It's not really as much. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: would agree with that.
Speaker 3: Brook you want it as something great.
Speaker 6: I did. Do you go into the symbolism that you
Speaker 6: discussed in your book with the skull and the wings
Speaker 6: or do you have any section on symbolism in there?
Speaker 8: Yes, I do talk about it.
Speaker 7: Now as far as the sections of the book are
Speaker 7: kind of broken down. I tried to kind of you know,
Speaker 7: lump them together as best I could, But there is
Speaker 7: a section on light and dark where you can see
Speaker 7: the progressions from the more I would say, the more macabre,
Speaker 7: the darker styles, and how they progress into a little
Speaker 7: bit more of a softer edge and why, you know,
Speaker 7: I explained all the different things, and it's a little
Speaker 7: it's it's mostly about a shift in society where we
Speaker 7: went from the god fearing Puritans and the Pilgrims, and
Speaker 7: they basically there was.
Speaker 8: Just you know, you had to.
Speaker 7: Live under God's roof, and you know, if you did
Speaker 7: not follow God's way, you were going to die. And
Speaker 7: this was the you know, the fear that was imposed
Speaker 7: on everyone. But slowly over time, and especially once you
Speaker 7: get into the eighteen hundreds, and I would say, in
Speaker 7: its peak the Victorian era, which is the mid eighteen
Speaker 7: hundreds to the early nineteen hundreds, there's much more of
Speaker 7: a shift in romanticism. You know, people are reading, there's
Speaker 7: more education going on, and also there was a lot
Speaker 7: of death and people had to deal with that mentally.
Speaker 7: So you know, if your husband went out to war
Speaker 7: and your child got you know, yellow fever, and your
Speaker 7: other child is suffering with you know, tuberculosis, all of
Speaker 7: these things, and then you had to bury your family.
Speaker 7: They had to put some sort of beautification into that
Speaker 7: situation so that it wouldn't feel like they had nothing
Speaker 7: to live for. And I think that all of those
Speaker 7: factors really contribute to that shift from the skulls and
Speaker 7: the bat wings into more of the angels and the
Speaker 7: flowers and things like that. And instead of where you
Speaker 7: would see maybe you know, in the seventeen hundreds, you
Speaker 7: would see more of that the skull no matter what.
Speaker 8: The age of the person who was buried there.
Speaker 7: You know, you will see lambs for babies, You'll see
Speaker 7: more flowers for the females, and I think that was
Speaker 7: a way for them to visit those sites and really
Speaker 7: feel good about connecting with their feelings and their their mourning.
Speaker 7: So it's an interesting shift in society. And also around
Speaker 7: the same time of the Victorians, we didn't really have
Speaker 7: in the United States, specifically, we didn't really have a
Speaker 7: public's parks program, so a lot of cemeteries were really
Speaker 7: places where people could convene socially. So you might go
Speaker 7: to church and then bring the family to the cemetery
Speaker 7: with for a picnic and kind of hang out, and
Speaker 7: you know, it was not viewed as a macab place
Speaker 7: to be. It was a normal place to be. And
Speaker 7: you know, I think when the introduction to more and
Speaker 7: more parks started happening, that people started leaving the cemeteries
Speaker 7: and then it kind of sunk back into that, you know,
Speaker 7: more of a macob place and not a place that
Speaker 7: everybody wanted to be anymore. So it's an interesting shift,
Speaker 7: you know. And I find all of that art to
Speaker 7: be very interesting personally. I like spooky designs that some
Speaker 7: of my favorites to find, but I understand why maybe
Speaker 7: people would have wanted something a little softer.
Speaker 6: Well, and when you speak about the Victorian era, spiritualism
Speaker 6: really was on the rise during that time. A lot
Speaker 6: of seances and those cemeteries, like you're saying, did have
Speaker 6: those morning chairs for people to sit in, and you're right,
Speaker 6: they would have picnics and talk to their loved ones
Speaker 6: or friends who had passed on. You know, this is
Speaker 6: post Civil War era. And I'm sure have you investigated Cassadega, Yeah,
Speaker 6: I figured, okay, So for Nick and the rest of
Speaker 6: the rejects. Cassadega is here in Florida and it's home
Speaker 6: to the most psychics per capita in the world. It's
Speaker 6: the psychic capital of the world. There's the Energy Vortex
Speaker 6: there and it was founded by this gentleman named Colby
Speaker 6: and he had this whole spirituism movement there. And there's
Speaker 6: a cemetery there with a haunted chair they say, called
Speaker 6: the Devil's Chair, and it's wrapped in a lot of folklore,
Speaker 6: to the point where some say that some have gone
Speaker 6: on midnight on Halloween and sat in the chair and
Speaker 6: have disappeared. So the locals kind of ticket pretty seriously
Speaker 6: and try to keep people from going in there. But
Speaker 6: it's really interesting you say that. Do you think that
Speaker 6: there's actually some truth to those claims or it's just fiction?
Speaker 8: You know. I visited there actually not long ago. I
Speaker 8: was there. I want to say it was June of
Speaker 8: twenty twenty four, and I.
Speaker 7: Was on an investigation in town and my team and I,
Speaker 7: you know, kind of spent some time at the cemetery
Speaker 7: and I just I think it's a really fun local legend,
Speaker 7: but I don't think there's anything to it.
Speaker 8: I think what it is is that we.
Speaker 7: Have a very paranormal charged town, you know, Casadega, Like
Speaker 7: you said, it was a very much a center for
Speaker 7: people that were drawn to the paranormal, that were drawn
Speaker 7: to seances. And then you have this very ominous looking
Speaker 7: chair in a cemetery, and I think as time went on,
Speaker 7: and you know, time passed, and you have all these
Speaker 7: people that are probably coming into the town visiting because
Speaker 7: it essentially did become a little bit.
Speaker 8: Of a tourist attraction for our state.
Speaker 7: And nobody knows why the chair is there, and it
Speaker 7: looks very ominous, and if you get up close to
Speaker 7: the chair, and this is something that's very small, so
Speaker 7: I don't know if everybody's seen it as been, but
Speaker 7: if you look on the left side of the chair,
Speaker 7: there's a little tiny wooden cross that has kind of
Speaker 7: adhered to the chair. And I don't know if that
Speaker 7: was part of the original design or somebody added that,
Speaker 7: maybe because they thought that they were wording off any evil, but.
Speaker 8: I think it was what it was.
Speaker 7: It was a morning chair for the family at that
Speaker 7: particular plot, because it is a large family plot to
Speaker 7: sit and spend time and enjoy the space. And I
Speaker 7: think it just became the subject of spooky legends. You know.
Speaker 8: Everybody has their local you know.
Speaker 7: I know there's always going to be the story of
Speaker 7: a guy with a hook, or there's going to be
Speaker 7: the story of a girl that's hitch hiking on prom
Speaker 7: night that disappears in the car. Everybody has their little
Speaker 7: local ghost story.
Speaker 8: And I think it's a fun one, but I don't.
Speaker 7: I don't think there's any way that someone's going to
Speaker 7: disappear on a chair in the cemetery.
Speaker 8: But it's maybe fun to try. You're brave.
Speaker 6: I bet you Nick would sit right in it and
Speaker 6: do whatever happens.
Speaker 8: You should, Nick. It's a cool area. You go to Disney,
Speaker 8: you know, and.
Speaker 1: Then I want I want to really want to I
Speaker 1: really want to go over to Uhl Castle.
Speaker 3: I really want to go there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's that's by me. That's actually the furthest South,
Speaker 7: that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: I looked at it like compared to other things.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I could go to Florida for that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, how close is it to Coral Castle?
Speaker 1: My god, it's another fucking four or five.
Speaker 7: Well, if you really want to do that, I can
Speaker 7: give you some areas around there to make it worth it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, area, there's not.
Speaker 7: Really much going on there, and depending on your vibe
Speaker 7: of vacation, I know, for me, sometimes I want a
Speaker 7: vacation where I'm not around people, and then sometimes I
Speaker 7: put myself in the thick of it.
Speaker 8: But that area is very cool.
Speaker 7: There's a lot of spooky stuff around around Coral Castle.
Speaker 3: I did want to show real quick.
Speaker 1: This was even something Brooke reminded me of it when
Speaker 1: she asked about Sure, no, I guess skulls with wings.
Speaker 1: These aren't bat wings, but these were the things that
Speaker 1: I had noticed that were in the Huntington and Yale
Speaker 1: and there were both skulls that had just different variations
Speaker 1: of wings on them too. That's actually the same kind
Speaker 1: of like style that I had noticed in different and
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're from Germany, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's them, but I noticed them in
Speaker 1: both and they're very old, from like the seventeen hundreds.
Speaker 9: Interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Jini, you'd mentioned earlier something about the ancient Hitside
Speaker 5: folks inventing this iron gate situations? Is this the only
Speaker 5: trend that we adapted into you know, burial, you know
Speaker 5: ceremonies or rituals.
Speaker 9: So if you will from the hitside folk.
Speaker 8: That I'm not.
Speaker 7: I didn't do a deep dive in deep dive into
Speaker 7: the hit type folks, But I just researched the origins
Speaker 7: of gates.
Speaker 8: Where was the first he ever found?
Speaker 7: And they were credited with creating the first you know
Speaker 7: what we would considered an iron gate, and they used
Speaker 7: it to keep people away from their you know, like
Speaker 7: their villages, their you know it.
Speaker 8: It was meant to as a defense.
Speaker 7: And as time went on and trading and you know
Speaker 7: everything kind of you know became what it became, more
Speaker 7: and more people started borrowing that idea and then it
Speaker 7: kind of morphed into what we have today.
Speaker 8: But they were the first to create it.
Speaker 5: So it's more of a cultural trend, not a burial
Speaker 5: trend then, right, right.
Speaker 7: But when I when I in the book, when I
Speaker 7: talk about a symbol, I start at the beginning and
Speaker 7: I talk about the origins of that symbol, and then
Speaker 7: I talk about how it relates to different cultures. And
Speaker 7: for example, you know, if you're talking about let's say
Speaker 7: deer being a symbolism, the first deer we're going to
Speaker 7: see is going to be from cave paintings that were
Speaker 7: found in France and and other areas of the world,
Speaker 7: and they represented the life force for certain you know, uh,
Speaker 7: groups of people, and you know, they were so important
Speaker 7: to them that they felt the need to paint them
Speaker 7: on the walls of caves. So it's it's that's sort
Speaker 7: of what where I go with the origin of where's
Speaker 7: the first time we're seeing the symbol and why was
Speaker 7: it important to those people, and how did it influence others,
Speaker 7: and what is the progression of the the symbolism. And
Speaker 7: of course you know iron gate iron gates mean different
Speaker 7: things to different people. And another thing that you might
Speaker 7: see which is not as common, uh iron gates, You
Speaker 7: can actually see them on on headstones. People actually will
Speaker 7: have headstones in carved into their into their gravestones, and
Speaker 7: that actually has a totally different symbolism. It doesn't it
Speaker 7: doesn't mean keeping out witches or keeping out ghosts or fairies.
Speaker 7: If you see it on a headstone, that usually means
Speaker 7: the gates of heaven and someone is passing through the
Speaker 7: gates into the afterlife.
Speaker 8: So it's it's just.
Speaker 7: An interesting thing to look into when you start going
Speaker 7: down the rabbit hole and you can see the progression.
Speaker 8: It's just kind of an interesting path to take.
Speaker 9: That's very interesting.
Speaker 5: And when you said Hittite, I just I'm very familiar
Speaker 5: with those folks and relative to you know, cemeteries here
Speaker 5: in Ohio, there's been ancient Hittite tablets found inside of
Speaker 5: ancient you know, architecture, the ancient mounds of America that
Speaker 5: for whatever reason, folks like the International Word of Oddfellows
Speaker 5: and Freemason groups built cemeteries here in Ohio around these mounds, right,
Speaker 5: So they have iron gates around the cemetery and then
Speaker 5: inside that cemeteries focus on a mound and that mound
Speaker 5: has got hit type writing on tablets. I just I
Speaker 5: find some of those things interesting.
Speaker 8: That's very interesting.
Speaker 7: And the Freemasons have a lot of interesting secrets and symbolism.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think you do actually get into
Speaker 1: a little bit of that right in the book.
Speaker 7: I think I touch upon it because there are certain
Speaker 7: fraternal orders, especially in the United States. You know that
Speaker 7: there are so many commonalities across our country where you're
Speaker 7: going to see a headstone that has a Freemason symbol,
Speaker 7: or you're going to see the daughters of the American
Speaker 7: Revolution or the Women of the World. You're going to
Speaker 7: see these fraternal orders, the the the Praternal Order.
Speaker 8: Of the Elks. There's there's so many of them.
Speaker 7: And what was was kind of interesting is being a
Speaker 7: member of those fraternal orders was so important to that
Speaker 7: person that they chose to put that on their final
Speaker 7: resting place as a prominent symbol.
Speaker 8: So it's important to note.
Speaker 7: Because there are so many of them, and I actually
Speaker 7: have been asked a lot of what they mean. So
Speaker 7: I did a little research into just the basic you know,
Speaker 7: what what each logo means and why they use the
Speaker 7: symbols that they use. But I kind of left it
Speaker 7: for surface value on that because the book really wasn't
Speaker 7: about the fraternal orders. It was more about the symbols.
Speaker 7: But it's it's just it's interesting to me that that
Speaker 7: that was such an important part of someone's life, that
Speaker 7: that's that's how they want to be remembered.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's uh that that's kind of a way.
Speaker 1: JJ's done it himself too. I've done it. Uh, when
Speaker 1: we've researched before. You can go and check someone's gravestone
Speaker 1: and sometimes you might find things out just from the
Speaker 1: stuff that's on there that you can't find anywhere else.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and all of a sudden like well, one point,
Speaker 1: I didn't know he's a freemasonbody has the fucking thing
Speaker 1: he graved on his tombstone, so obviously he was.
Speaker 9: Now, you know, that's a great point.
Speaker 5: That guy found that out just the other day when
Speaker 5: I was, uh, you know, recently when I was looking
Speaker 5: at uh, Robert the doll, the guy that the onset
Speaker 5: of that cursed damn doll there in Florida.
Speaker 9: The guy who gave it to his grandson was doctor
Speaker 9: Joseph A.
Speaker 5: Otto, who was a little prominent freemason and doctor there
Speaker 5: in Key West. And you know, real big on the
Speaker 5: top of his gravestone is the you know, the compass
Speaker 5: and squares so you can't miss it.
Speaker 7: I investigated that doll, and it is. It's such an
Speaker 7: interesting thing in Florida to do. If you're ever in
Speaker 7: the keys it's it's very cool.
Speaker 5: Beware, that's my only forewarning is don't go, oh it's
Speaker 5: go to Key West. You know what I'm saying, don't
Speaker 5: go take a picture of that damn doll because they don't.
Speaker 8: Want they actually this is.
Speaker 7: This is a hot topic, hot topic, and hot take
Speaker 7: on this, but it's true.
Speaker 8: I was there in.
Speaker 7: November of twenty twenty four and I did the night
Speaker 7: investigation where you know, you get to have the space
Speaker 7: the museum to you know, investigate, and they told us specifically,
Speaker 7: don't ask permission.
Speaker 8: That they had.
Speaker 7: Someone come in and some psychic or medium or whoever,
Speaker 7: somebody that they trusted, told them that was the wrong
Speaker 7: thing to do because somehow, by doing that, you're inviting
Speaker 7: the spirit in.
Speaker 8: Because you're communicating with it, you're opening yourself up to it.
Speaker 7: So they actually have a policy that's changed, and they said, please,
Speaker 7: don't ask permission.
Speaker 1: Didn't and I, well, I put this sounds sounds.
Speaker 8: People went off on me. You can call and ask them.
Speaker 8: That's help me.
Speaker 5: I'm saying, I don't doubt you, man, I'm just saying
Speaker 5: this rule seems flagrant, dangerous, just like it was when
Speaker 5: I wandered in there one day with no knowledge of
Speaker 5: a curse doll. I didn't ask permission. I said, damn
Speaker 5: your curse. I'll take a picture anyway. And uh, thirteen
Speaker 5: years later, I tell you that's that thing's no good.
Speaker 7: Maybe a lot of pictures I ask it I took
Speaker 7: a lot of pictures, a lot of video, and you
Speaker 7: know what I got. I got some evidence of Robert.
Speaker 7: I got on one of my devices. It said Robert
Speaker 7: and I have a recording. I'm happy to share it
Speaker 7: with Nick. It is a device that's kind of like
Speaker 7: a spirit box. And I was asking questions and I was,
Speaker 7: you know, I wasn't getting any responses. So I said
Speaker 7: something along the lines of I was with my husband.
Speaker 7: I said, you know, my husband doesn't think you're real,
Speaker 7: but I do. I think you're a pretty cool guy.
Speaker 7: And then we heard giggling.
Speaker 8: Okay, I had nothing.
Speaker 7: Nothing, and then I got giggling to that comment. So
Speaker 7: I just think, if this is the thing, if you
Speaker 7: go in there and you act poorly, then you it's
Speaker 7: kind of like, you know, you mess around, you find out.
Speaker 7: And I think that's that's what happens to a lot
Speaker 7: of people, is they tried to taunt the doll. And
Speaker 7: I think there's no difference between that though, and just the.
Speaker 8: Law of attraction.
Speaker 7: If you are going to be a jerk, you're going
Speaker 7: to get that karma back. And some people I think
Speaker 7: that taunt the doll and treat it badly I'm not
Speaker 7: saying you did that, but I did.
Speaker 3: Say maybe it was already pissed off and he took
Speaker 3: it out on you.
Speaker 7: J I was complimentary and I told him how much
Speaker 7: I liked him, because it's true.
Speaker 8: I think he's.
Speaker 6: When you said about inviting the doll in. I just
Speaker 6: did some research into Annabel and that's one of the
Speaker 6: things that Edam Lorraine Warren talked about with her was
Speaker 6: that that is where the original owners messed up, is
Speaker 6: when they had the seance and they gave the permission
Speaker 6: to that spirit to stay. That is when the attacks escalated,
Speaker 6: and then they had a full on infestation at that
Speaker 6: point in time, almost possession. The warrant said, if they
Speaker 6: had been just a week later, that someone probably would
Speaker 6: have died or become possessed by the spirit of quote
Speaker 6: unquote Anabell. So same thing with Robert. Yeah, it is
Speaker 6: that permission opens that door spiritually, and you don't know
Speaker 6: what you're you know, really no, really.
Speaker 7: I mean the owner actually made a video, so it's
Speaker 7: a welcome video when you go there and you're on
Speaker 7: this investigation, before you start, you have to watch this
Speaker 7: video that the owner of the museum has made and he.
Speaker 8: Explicitly says not to ask for permission.
Speaker 9: So that's interesting him.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I've visited there a long time ago, August to twenty twelve.
Speaker 9: But the and again, there was no I was a
Speaker 9: mill of day.
Speaker 5: It was no warnings. They were just like, hey, I
Speaker 5: was there to see an old civil war for it,
Speaker 5: it was built on a mound. Yeah, it turns out.
Speaker 5: I think a lot of weird shit happens on mounds.
Speaker 5: And Robert, you know one of those examples, what's the spirit?
Speaker 9: And Robert, what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 7: So I am not totally sure what is inhabiting that doll.
Speaker 7: I'm not saying that there isn't anything inhabiting a doll,
Speaker 7: but I don't think it is quite as evil as
Speaker 7: everybody says that it is. I think a lot of
Speaker 7: the stories that you hear about the doll are okay. So,
Speaker 7: for example, the doll was running around the house, and
Speaker 7: people saw the doll running around the house.
Speaker 8: I don't think the doll was running around the house.
Speaker 7: It was also story of a woman supposedly the last
Speaker 7: owner of the doll, which was not part of the family.
Speaker 7: No one knows how this woman got possession of the doll.
Speaker 7: But she had possession of the doll in the nineteen
Speaker 7: nineties and she gave the doll to the museum. Just
Speaker 7: showed up one day and said, hey, do you want this?
Speaker 7: And she told then the doll locked her in a closet.
Speaker 7: I also don't believe that, but I'm not saying that
Speaker 7: there's not something there.
Speaker 9: Right, I don't believe that either.
Speaker 7: Right personally, don't believe a doll can lock someone in
Speaker 7: a closet because I live in on play Earth.
Speaker 9: But he can die. We except for donating that doll
Speaker 9: right after dinner.
Speaker 8: She was an older lady, So are we going to
Speaker 8: look at it?
Speaker 5: I'm just saying, like, I don't know. It seemed like
Speaker 5: she has a lot of circumstances to begin with. But
Speaker 5: I agree with you and not run around and stuff.
Speaker 7: I think a lot of it is over hyping and
Speaker 7: it all goes back to having an urban legend and
Speaker 7: it's a great story. And I'm not saying it's not haunted.
Speaker 7: I do think that there's something paranormal.
Speaker 9: About that all. But I do things cursed.
Speaker 7: I don't think if you if you are kind and
Speaker 7: you are not, you are not being aggressive, and you
Speaker 7: are not antagonizing it.
Speaker 8: I don't think you have anything to worry about. I
Speaker 8: wanted to planet the.
Speaker 2: Whole idea behind having a gate is to not have
Speaker 2: the proverbial Robert follow us home right and and the
Speaker 2: same thing with the burial itself has an aspect of
Speaker 2: that too. With the whole Hittite ritual is to put
Speaker 2: them in the ground. You stay there, go do your
Speaker 2: soul's journey, don't come back and be my Robert, so
Speaker 2: to speak. So even even Barry has this ritual gate
Speaker 2: ritual kind of reasoning similar. Anyway, I wanted to ask
Speaker 2: if there was you mentioned that the skull was related
Speaker 2: to German folk. I wonder if there were other symbols
Speaker 2: that other groups of people tended to use that maybe
Speaker 2: we're suggestive of something we wouldn't think like as that
Speaker 2: we would think that being death, not German, or other
Speaker 2: symbols that you found that came up a lot that
Speaker 2: were interesting just in general.
Speaker 7: Well, I think there are some that I find personally
Speaker 7: interesting that I think one of the top ones that
Speaker 7: I found out about when my last trip to London
Speaker 7: was the symbol of the pelican. And so you might
Speaker 7: walk right by this pelican, and you might not think
Speaker 7: anything of it, but if you look a little closer,
Speaker 7: it was heavy metal. Okay, it is a pelican, all right,
Speaker 7: and she is and all her babies are eating her flesh.
Speaker 8: Okay.
Speaker 7: Now the pelican is it's it can be maternal or paternal,
Speaker 7: but it's usually maternal, so it's usually the mother and
Speaker 7: it's it symbolizes a strong mother and someone who would
Speaker 7: die for their children. And you know, it's just one
Speaker 7: of those things that self sacrifice. You know, a mother
Speaker 7: does so much for her children. You know, the children
Speaker 7: are the center of her universe. But to choose that symbol,
Speaker 7: I just thought that was really cool. And there are
Speaker 7: also some uh in there are also in Christian faith,
Speaker 7: the pelican can be used to represent the mother Mary
Speaker 7: and sacrifice, see you know herself.
Speaker 8: You know, basically she sacrificed herself.
Speaker 7: For her path and it's just interesting to me to
Speaker 7: choose the pelican for that. So I thought that was
Speaker 7: kind of neat, And once I saw one, then I
Speaker 7: started seeing more and more because it was on my radar.
Speaker 7: Another one that I really like, and I think you
Speaker 7: guys might think this is cool too, is the thistle flower.
Speaker 7: So a thistle flower is kind of like I've seen
Speaker 7: it pink or purple, right, and it's kind of spiky
Speaker 7: and it looks almost fluffy, and the stem and the
Speaker 7: leaves are also kind of spiky. Now, this is something
Speaker 7: that's found commonly in the UK, specifically in Scotland, and
Speaker 7: as the story goes, that you know made this such
Speaker 7: an important symbol for Scotland was that the Scottish was
Speaker 7: fighting with the Norse, so the Norse was on their
Speaker 7: land and they were fighting off the Norse. Now, the
Speaker 7: story of the thistle goes is that the Scottish army
Speaker 7: was so tired from fighting and fighting and fighting that
Speaker 7: they decided to go into a field of thistle.
Speaker 8: So they were sleeping in the middle of this field.
Speaker 7: This was a tactic because the Norse didn't know about
Speaker 7: the spiky nature of the flower, so they knew that
Speaker 7: this was their best defense. So as they slept, they
Speaker 7: slept without a care in the world, and of course
Speaker 7: the Norse found them and started surrounding them. But to
Speaker 7: give an element of surprise, the Norse took off their
Speaker 7: boots and they started walking through the field of thistle,
Speaker 7: and as they cried out in pain. The Scottish had
Speaker 7: an advantage and they took the Norse army and they
Speaker 7: won the war. And this particular flower became so important
Speaker 7: to Scotland that you can actually see it on the
Speaker 7: coat of arms and a lot of Scottish people will
Speaker 7: still to this day incorporate the thistle flower into their gravestone.
Speaker 7: It's one that you almost exclusively is found on Scottish graves.
Speaker 8: So it's kind of.
Speaker 7: An interesting thing that once you know, you know, and
Speaker 7: I love those stories.
Speaker 8: I love finding out about.
Speaker 3: Why you know, yeah some do.
Speaker 1: It was just like because it was probably a common thing.
Speaker 1: We know, what, you take off your shoes to sneak
Speaker 1: up on the motherfuckers. So the pibble like, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: see a motherfucker take off their shoes now and sneak
Speaker 1: up on us. That's like I was going through someone's head.
Speaker 1: That's as about like that whole story came to me.
Speaker 1: One thing I did want to mention real quick before
Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of go into something else. I
Speaker 1: did it kind of still with the I guess more
Speaker 1: of like the graveyards and stuff, why they're positioned. I know,
Speaker 1: you get into that. But one thing I did want
Speaker 1: to just mention real quick kind of about Robert the
Speaker 1: Dalla again or a little bit of the spirits, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of going about the whole thing of asking for permission.
Speaker 1: I do know when it comes to this all depends
Speaker 1: on how you even look at demons or what you
Speaker 1: believe they are. But even in the Gatia or other
Speaker 1: really books about summoning demons, working with demons, you're not
Speaker 1: asking for permission. You're actually telling them what the fuck
Speaker 1: you're doing with them and what they're used for.
Speaker 3: And that's it.
Speaker 1: Like you're gonna wear a symbol on you that even
Speaker 1: when you supposedly invoke them, this symbol is already rendering
Speaker 1: them under your control. There is no permission. You're telling
Speaker 1: the motherfucker this is why you hear, and this is
Speaker 1: what you're doing. So I do kind of understand they
Speaker 1: once you give him permission, though, what the fuck you
Speaker 1: know why You're not supposed to do anything unless I
Speaker 1: tell you to.
Speaker 5: Like we were saying, especially with demons in the Gatia,
Speaker 5: because I think Robert the Doll was something was actually
Speaker 5: made to invoke some sort of spirit into it, could
Speaker 5: be a tulpa.
Speaker 9: Well that was he was. He was a unique doll.
Speaker 5: He was made by the lady who invented the teddy Bear,
Speaker 5: specifically allegedly.
Speaker 9: By her, and she was that's true.
Speaker 8: I think that's debunked.
Speaker 7: I think the doll is actually from overseas somewhere, and
Speaker 7: they were able to show where it came from.
Speaker 5: That's the staying spot. It's the it's the lady in Germany.
Speaker 5: And they even have it's this unique tag on the
Speaker 5: ear that they tracked it down with. I mean, they
Speaker 5: went to some great details in their in their studies
Speaker 5: there apparently.
Speaker 7: I don't think hand made by the housemaid. There was
Speaker 7: a there was a lot of that going around that
Speaker 7: the nandy or whatever made the doll, and that was debunked.
Speaker 9: Correct, This is a German lady who invented the teddy bear.
Speaker 8: Oh oh okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: So she was still alive at the time. She may
Speaker 5: have in fact hand crafted Robert herself. So and and
Speaker 5: again you know, speaking of these kind of nickers and
Speaker 5: the demons, the Guatia, this kind of Germanic lore of things,
Speaker 5: and I think where I where I also assert Mickey
Speaker 5: Mouse comes from in a deman demonic form as well.
Speaker 5: From this some ancient demon creatures of that era of
Speaker 5: that region. You know, I think, uh, you know, well,
Speaker 5: they found they found a little Mickey Mouse thing in
Speaker 5: a in a barrel mound up there in a you know,
Speaker 5: a Viking era mound there in the old uh you know,
Speaker 5: northern area of Germany there. So all I'm saying is, yeah,
Speaker 5: it looks identical to Mickey Mouse, and they say it's
Speaker 5: a lion. But like in these mounds, they're only burying
Speaker 5: like ceremonial ritual items, and there ain't no lions in
Speaker 5: that region. So I'm not sure what this little demon
Speaker 5: creature is. But it is weird that Robert's got this
Speaker 5: kind of strange history. As you're pointing out, there's a
Speaker 5: lot of there's a lot of mystery around it. But
Speaker 5: folks have recently in years gone to such detailed to
Speaker 5: find the manufacturing details of that thing, to track it
Speaker 5: down to that German operation that vented the teddy bear,
Speaker 5: because teddy bears weren't a thing at the time like
Speaker 5: this was.
Speaker 9: This was a time when when you know, Robert, you know,
Speaker 9: not every kid was after a doll.
Speaker 5: When you know this this ranking freemason and Key West
Speaker 5: brought his grandson back this doll from Germany, as the
Speaker 5: story goes. But I would say that as far as
Speaker 5: the curses go and this thing being invoked, you know,
Speaker 5: made on purpose like that.
Speaker 9: Like I know, a lot of it explained on the
Speaker 9: nanny because they're.
Speaker 5: From you know, the Bahamas or whatever there, and there's
Speaker 5: some hoodoo or Voodi references. But I would put more
Speaker 5: fingers on putting more fingers towards uh, doctor Joseph Auto
Speaker 5: and the Auto family whatnot. So they're freemasons, Uh Robert Eugenoto,
Speaker 5: the owner of the doll, who you know, receives it
Speaker 5: from his grandfather, his father, you know, he's a in
Speaker 5: the kind of the same you know, medicine and freemasonry
Speaker 5: business down there. And he marries a woman who's the
Speaker 5: descendant of a major figure in the secret Society that
Speaker 5: starred American And they're into some weird occultism if you
Speaker 5: asked me, her great grandfather was an admiral in the
Speaker 5: in the Wars of seventeen seventy six. But you have
Speaker 5: this weird appicenter of activity of weird occultism already right there.
Speaker 5: But then they also mix in with the they that
Speaker 5: lady's family they come to the Parkers, they come from
Speaker 5: the Bahamas, you know, so they're not the only ones
Speaker 5: that would possibly be influenced by who do or vood
Speaker 5: doing their.
Speaker 9: General occult practices already.
Speaker 5: So I know a lot it's blamed on the nanny,
Speaker 5: but I look more towards those families, whatever they were into.
Speaker 7: I don't believe the nanny theory because I think that
Speaker 7: Nanny was very close to Robert, and if she was
Speaker 7: close to anybody in that family, it was probably the child.
Speaker 7: And reason why to put something evil on a toy
Speaker 7: that you who.
Speaker 3: Wants to deal with that if you go to take
Speaker 3: care of the kid, get heat off the parents.
Speaker 7: I think that the whole thing is a little is
Speaker 7: a little suspicious, and I just personally don't I don't
Speaker 7: think that nanny had anything to do with it, but
Speaker 7: I'm not saying that there wasn't anything paranormal about the doll.
Speaker 8: I think the doll thing is strange.
Speaker 7: I think that there's too many when there's too much smoke,
Speaker 7: there's some fire, you know, and there's too many stories
Speaker 7: about that doll for there not to be something strange.
Speaker 7: But I don't think it's quite the magnitude, as some
Speaker 7: people reported as being I just don't all right.
Speaker 3: Uh, to get back to the semi thories.
Speaker 1: I did want to ask if you know, uh, you
Speaker 1: had mentioned stuff, and I find this interesting for a
Speaker 1: lot of occult reasons, even kind of when it comes
Speaker 1: to the Abermelon, you're supposed to face the you know,
Speaker 1: your house should be facing to the east in a
Speaker 1: certain way, you know, so directions count for rituals. You
Speaker 1: had mentioned I think the beginning of the book and
Speaker 1: throughout your at some point in your book also that
Speaker 1: the way there some materies and graveyearlds, the way people
Speaker 1: are buried, or specific sometimes to the religion, and it
Speaker 1: could be different burial practices depending on you know, I
Speaker 1: guess the religion. Is there any stuff like that you
Speaker 1: could maybe like get into a little bit about like
Speaker 1: the whole, like why it's facing which way? For what reason?
Speaker 7: Yes, So it's very common for Christians to be facing
Speaker 7: the east because that is where the sun rises, and
Speaker 7: the sun represents the son of a son of God, Jesus,
Speaker 7: and it is thought that when the resurrection comes, that's
Speaker 7: where Jesus will rise. So the graves are typically facing
Speaker 7: in that way, if you are religious, and many, many,
Speaker 7: many headstones in the United States, especially the older cemeteries,
Speaker 7: you will see that as evidence of Christian graves. Then
Speaker 7: there are for Jewish graves. Typically they will face the
Speaker 7: foot of the grave, will face the entrance or the exit.
Speaker 7: You know, usually it's the same place the gate of
Speaker 7: the cemetery, because the idea is when the resurrection comes
Speaker 7: for the Jewish people that they will be they will
Speaker 7: raise up and they want their spirits will walk out.
Speaker 8: And then there is the western facing graves.
Speaker 7: So that's the interesting one that I find is a
Speaker 7: lot of western facing graves in older cemeteries. So this
Speaker 7: doesn't apply to newer cemeteries. This is you know, we're
Speaker 7: talking eighteen hundreds here that in Victorian properties, when you
Speaker 7: saw a grave that face the west, this might have
Speaker 7: been someone that was ostracized in their town as being
Speaker 7: a witch, or someone that they thought was unholy, or
Speaker 7: someone that just wanted to give the middle finger to
Speaker 7: the town and the people that believed in God. Maybe
Speaker 7: they were on the fringes of society. Who knows, but
Speaker 7: there are a lot of people that in death their
Speaker 7: graves were placed west, not by their choice, but because
Speaker 7: the town thought that they were witchy.
Speaker 8: And there's a really good example of that in Florida.
Speaker 7: So in Tallahassee, you can look up as a very
Speaker 7: famous story, really sad story of Elizabeth bud Graham and
Speaker 7: she has a beautiful headstone, but basically she was a
Speaker 7: gorgeous woman and of course she attracted lots of male suitors,
Speaker 7: but the one that she chose was the one that
Speaker 7: everybody wanted. And you know, he was a successful man
Speaker 7: in town, and there became a bunch of rumors that
Speaker 7: she charmed him with witchcraft because maybe she wasn't the
Speaker 7: most wealthy high society woman, and why did he want
Speaker 7: to marry her. Oh, she must be a witch because
Speaker 7: I don't want to look in the mirror and face
Speaker 7: the fact that I have flaws, so I want to
Speaker 7: project all this nastiness onto another person. So everybody started
Speaker 7: stirring the pot in the area and started this rumor
Speaker 7: that Elizabeth bud Graham was and they also her nickname
Speaker 7: was Bessie.
Speaker 8: Was a witch.
Speaker 7: And when she died kind of suddenly, the town actually
Speaker 7: had her grave facing west. So if you go to
Speaker 7: the Tallahassee National Cemetery, you're going to or actually say
Speaker 7: the Tallahassee Cemetery, not the national one, but the Tallahassee
Speaker 7: City Cemetery, you'll find her grave is one of the
Speaker 7: only ones that faces that way, and it's become a
Speaker 7: site which another topic I talk about in the book
Speaker 7: is tradition tipping, and that is when people come to
Speaker 7: a grave specifically to leave gifts and to acknowledge that
Speaker 7: maybe an injustice was done to someone and that you
Speaker 7: can see this also as evidence in the Salem which
Speaker 7: trial memorials. People come from all around and they leave
Speaker 7: tribute items. Maybe they'll leave a flower or a coin,
Speaker 7: or they'll leave, you know, something little, something special, like
Speaker 7: a teddy bear. But these people that are doing it
Speaker 7: have no connection to the deceased, but they're doing it
Speaker 7: out of.
Speaker 8: Respect for an injustice.
Speaker 7: And that is one of the graves that we have
Speaker 7: in our state, where people come from all around and
Speaker 7: leave her presence. But it's just an interesting thing because
Speaker 7: it's in the older cemeteries. It's very they ostracize them
Speaker 7: so much in life and they continue to do it
Speaker 7: in death that you know, it's kind of a sad situation.
Speaker 8: But nowadays graves face any old way. It just depends
Speaker 8: on the plot.
Speaker 7: It depends on you know, how much you want to
Speaker 7: spend and it you know, there's really it's all arbitrar
Speaker 7: right now. But it's an interesting to look at, an
Speaker 7: interesting thing to look at, and you can typically even
Speaker 7: if someone's grave doesn't tell you what their religion is,
Speaker 7: you can kind of figure it out based on that.
Speaker 3: It's listen, look, you want to ask something I do.
Speaker 6: So with your work in cemeteries, I know you said
Speaker 6: you've done some paranormal investigation when it comes to Robert
Speaker 6: the Dahl, have you conducted any other paranormal research while
Speaker 6: in some cemeteries and found some more let's say, charged
Speaker 6: than others.
Speaker 7: So that's a really good question, and it's one of
Speaker 7: those things in the paranormal field that is a hot topic.
Speaker 8: Are cemeteries haunted?
Speaker 7: And I think some of them really truly are, but
Speaker 7: I would say most aren't. And I think for me,
Speaker 7: usually when I'm in a cemetery, I'm taking pictures. You know,
Speaker 7: I'm there for the art, but sometimes I'll bring a spear,
Speaker 7: a box or you know, something like that with me,
Speaker 7: and I have gotten some interesting evidence in cemeteries before I.
Speaker 8: Would say the most.
Speaker 7: There's a couple notable ones, but one was in the
Speaker 7: Daytona Cemetery. I don't know if you've ever been to
Speaker 7: Daytona Brook, you know, are you familiar with that area.
Speaker 6: I've not been to the cemetery, but Daytona yes, Okay.
Speaker 7: So in Daytona there's a strip which is very populated
Speaker 7: with a lot of biker bars.
Speaker 8: Okay.
Speaker 7: I was there on an investigation for a biker bar.
Speaker 7: So I was there to investigate the saloon. The saloon,
Speaker 7: known as the Boothill Saloon now the Boothill Saloon, before
Speaker 7: it became a saloon, was a mortuary that serviced the
Speaker 7: cemetery across the street. Then over time it became purchased
Speaker 7: and turned into a bar. So the bars haunted.
Speaker 8: That's why I was.
Speaker 7: I was there, but I also wanted to check out
Speaker 7: the cemetery while I was in town. So while I
Speaker 7: had done a little research before I got there, and
Speaker 7: I knew of one specific story which is really spooky,
Speaker 7: and it was in the nineteen nineties. There was a
Speaker 7: group of teenage boys and what they were doing is
Speaker 7: they were breaking into mausoleums.
Speaker 8: And they had a midnight club. So they would get together.
Speaker 7: They would hold these meetings in a mausoleum. But somewhere
Speaker 7: along the line, they started going through the graves and
Speaker 7: maybe robbing the you know, the coffins and stuff like that.
Speaker 8: And when they were.
Speaker 7: Caught one of the graves that they had been messing
Speaker 7: around with, the skull was missing. So a lot of
Speaker 7: people felt at that time that certain paranormal activity that
Speaker 7: was starting to ramp up in the area was because
Speaker 7: these kids stole a skull. Now, when I went to
Speaker 7: this property, I happened to be walking around, and as
Speaker 7: I always do, I oftentimes meet people that earn enthusiasts.
Speaker 7: You know, maybe they see me taking pictures and they
Speaker 7: want to talk to me about it. When I was there,
Speaker 7: there was a man who spoke with me, and he
Speaker 7: told me a lot of other things. So we said, okay,
Speaker 7: look around the cemetery. You're going to see all these
Speaker 7: graves knocked over, and that was from bikers. They used
Speaker 7: to leave the gates open, and these bikers were get intoxicated.
Speaker 7: They would come into the property and the would kick
Speaker 7: down the stones. So there's a lot of maybe restless
Speaker 7: spirits from that. And then he told me that during
Speaker 7: COVID people were coming in and they were robbing the
Speaker 7: medals that made up the gates around some of the mausoleums. So,
Speaker 7: knowing this knowledge now from this random stranger who was
Speaker 7: super nice to tell me all of it, I took
Speaker 7: a spirit box and I was walking around the cemetery
Speaker 7: and I was over by the mausoleums. So now we
Speaker 7: know the mausoleums. There's a missing skull, and there are
Speaker 7: missing metals stripped.
Speaker 8: From the mausoleums.
Speaker 7: So I'm up there and I'm asking questions about the
Speaker 7: skull and I heard the words gate, and I said,
Speaker 7: did someone steal parts of your gate?
Speaker 8: And it said yes.
Speaker 7: And then I asked more questions because I think I'm
Speaker 7: talking to something intelligent, and I said, did this happen recently?
Speaker 7: And it said yes, and I was it was really interesting.
Speaker 7: And then I was going around.
Speaker 8: I found some.
Speaker 7: Graves that were toppled, and I got what sounded like
Speaker 7: a woman asking for help, and then a man immediately
Speaker 7: said help her, and I said, I can't pick up
Speaker 7: this grave, ma'am. You know, I'm sorry, but you know
Speaker 7: I there's nothing I could do about it. It was
Speaker 7: just really interesting, and when I spoke to the staff
Speaker 7: members at the saloon, which when I was done because
Speaker 7: I was there to actually to do an investigation that night,
Speaker 7: they told me that they see apparitions all the time
Speaker 7: because they close up and they're leaving, and you know,
Speaker 7: it's usually kind of quiet around like two three in
Speaker 7: the morning, and they see what looks like, you know,
Speaker 7: ghostly lights walking around in the cemetery, so they think
Speaker 7: it's on it. So that was pretty cool. And then
Speaker 7: the other thing I wanted to mention was in Saint Augustine.
Speaker 7: Are you familiar with Saint Augustine? Okay, there are two
Speaker 7: major cemeteries that a lot of people talk about. In
Speaker 7: Saint Augustine. There is the Talamato, which is one of
Speaker 7: the oldest cemeteries in the United States because it was
Speaker 7: first occupied by the Spanish during the fifteen hundreds, so
Speaker 7: it was before we had, you know, New England colonized this.
Speaker 7: This Spanish were there and they were using that plot.
Speaker 7: But before the Spanish, that plot was actually used by
Speaker 7: the Native Americans, and the Native Americans told them to
Speaker 7: use that land, and they said, this is where we
Speaker 7: bury our dead, this is where you bury your dead.
Speaker 7: So they shared it now it is the Talamadol Cemetery,
Speaker 7: so that place is haunted. But there's also a property
Speaker 7: across the street that was the Hugenots, So that was
Speaker 7: for people that weren't Christian, and at the time that's
Speaker 7: how it started.
Speaker 8: I think Protestant.
Speaker 7: I'm not sure who else, but it wasn't you know,
Speaker 7: there was a Christian spot and then there was this spot. Now,
Speaker 7: the Huguenots Cemetery was the site of a mass grave
Speaker 7: after the yellow fever epidemic, So there was all these
Speaker 7: people dying of yellow fever and the bodies were piling up.
Speaker 7: People didn't want to claim their bodies of their family
Speaker 7: members because if they said, yes, my husband had yellow fever,
Speaker 7: guess what.
Speaker 8: They're going to do.
Speaker 7: They're going to come to your house. And they burned
Speaker 7: the houses down because they didn't understand how to quarantine
Speaker 7: or how to you know, fix the problem.
Speaker 8: So they figured, oh, the disease.
Speaker 7: Must be in your house, so let's just burn it down.
Speaker 7: So all these people were not claiming their loved ones,
Speaker 7: so all their loved ones were eventually put into a
Speaker 7: large mass grave and they've confirmed on the property there's
Speaker 7: at least two that they know about this on the
Speaker 7: Huguenots side. So I was there randomly because I go
Speaker 7: all the time. I was there on a ghost tour.
Speaker 7: I was just walking around, just taking pictures, not thinking
Speaker 7: I'm going to see anything at all. And this is
Speaker 7: my only time in my paranormal career catching what looks
Speaker 7: like figures on a on a photo on multiple pholdos.
Speaker 7: I should say I have at least two, and it's
Speaker 7: full body apparitions. A man looks like he's wearing a
Speaker 7: top hat, he's kind of portly, he's got a beard,
Speaker 7: and he's got like a frilly kind of ascot going on,
Speaker 7: and right next to him a little little less detailed ascot.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Is that how he's saying, no, no, I just love it.
Speaker 7: And then there's a woman that's right next to him.
Speaker 7: She's a little less clear, and it looks like she's
Speaker 7: wearing a bonnet and kind of like a fluffy kind
Speaker 7: of you know material I don't know, like an old
Speaker 7: timey looking.
Speaker 8: Dress, and it is wild. And I took three pictures
Speaker 8: back to back.
Speaker 7: So I always tell you in paranormal investigations, take a
Speaker 7: burst and you can see them manifesting in one, you
Speaker 7: can see them full body in the second one, and
Speaker 7: then in the last one you don't see anything. They're
Speaker 7: gone and it's the same spot and they're live photos,
Speaker 7: so you can actually see them in the photos on
Speaker 7: an iPhone. So it's I think there are certain circumstances
Speaker 7: that can warrant properties having paranormal activity, but I do
Speaker 7: I also can kind of side with the people that argue,
Speaker 7: why would a spirit be in the plot of their grave.
Speaker 7: Wouldn't they be in the house that they died in,
Speaker 7: or you know, their workplace or the hospital. And I
Speaker 7: don't disagree with that, but I think that some people
Speaker 7: are unrest especially if they're in an unmarked grave, and
Speaker 7: we have a lot of that in Florida. We have
Speaker 7: so many properties in Florida that have mass graves from hurricanes.
Speaker 7: Before people understood how to track hurricanes, there is an
Speaker 7: incredible amount of mass graves and it's really really sad.
Speaker 7: So I think that there's something to that specifically in Florida,
Speaker 7: but I can understand to you in other states, maybe
Speaker 7: there might be you know, a resurrection Mary, or you
Speaker 7: know in Chicago, or you know, you hear these stories
Speaker 7: and there's I think there's some truth it.
Speaker 4: Gina. I was going to say, you mentioned the robbery
Speaker 4: of a human school, and the first thing that pained
Speaker 4: in my head was the show that we did about
Speaker 4: the Colton Mexico Polo Miambi was the religion that they
Speaker 4: practiced and one of the requirements of a human school
Speaker 4: and their cauldron, and it was to invoke the ancients
Speaker 4: or the spirits to get them to do their will
Speaker 4: and bind them to the cauldron. So and I know
Speaker 4: that when I was in Florida, down in South Flora,
Speaker 4: especially in the Miami area, there is enormous amounts of
Speaker 4: Caribbean different Caribbean belief systems that way, and so right,
Speaker 4: and sometimes and I know Nick and I have talked about,
Speaker 4: you know, like cattle mutilations. I was like, sometimes people
Speaker 4: need blood and they need a ritual. And these people
Speaker 4: from you know, of different belief systems. You know that
Speaker 4: they're used to doing things and you know, we think
Speaker 4: that it something, but it might just be that somebody
Speaker 4: needed a supply thing for a ritual. So I mean,
Speaker 4: I'm not to say that it's not haunted or anything
Speaker 4: like that, but you are having all of this kind
Speaker 4: of melting pot of belief systems.
Speaker 7: I think that that whole story is horrific that that happened,
Speaker 7: and I think that the act of doing that definitely
Speaker 7: left some negative energy on that property. I don't know
Speaker 7: if those kids were intelligent enough to be doing anything,
Speaker 7: you know, ac cult related, or if they just saw
Speaker 7: a movie and they wanted to have a secret society
Speaker 7: and they thought it was cool.
Speaker 8: I don't know, but I do know that they were
Speaker 8: I know they were.
Speaker 7: High school aged, so it's possible. But you know, it's
Speaker 7: a shame for a couple of reasons. It's a shame
Speaker 7: because obviously they desecraated a grave. Two, they might have
Speaker 7: created spiritual unrest. And three you're also fueling into what
Speaker 7: I know a lot of you probably know about is
Speaker 7: the satanic panic stuff, you know, and the satanic panic
Speaker 7: of the eighties and the nineties has really rocketed so
Speaker 7: many horrific situations, especially in criminal justice, and kind of
Speaker 7: blaming certain crimes on satanic panic and little things like that.
Speaker 7: Even if they were just doing it as a joke
Speaker 7: or they thought it was cool, people can look at
Speaker 7: that and go, oh, see the teenagers are doing this,
Speaker 7: you know, and everything is satanic panic. You know, and
Speaker 7: it's it just is not a good look, you know,
Speaker 7: and it I think it fueled negative energy and the
Speaker 7: wrong reasons.
Speaker 1: It's funny how you mentioned even like that type of situation.
Speaker 1: I can say not for me doing it, but from
Speaker 1: people I was with and witnessed. It was even there,
Speaker 1: Like I lived it over in Ronkonkoma when we lived
Speaker 1: on Lake ron knk you know, right near Lake Ronkonkoma,
Speaker 1: and you can walk along it, and there was like
Speaker 1: a lot of like interesting things like even like brick wolves.
Speaker 1: They're just like things like left over that are there
Speaker 1: and places you can tag or spray paint and this
Speaker 1: and that. We got like a bunch of dudes that
Speaker 1: like listen to Slayer and Metallica. What do you think
Speaker 1: they might actually write on the wolves? And people literally
Speaker 1: saw that and thought there was satanic going on. That's
Speaker 1: how fucking ignorant people can be, just because the symbols there,
Speaker 1: a kid must have been killed?
Speaker 3: What the fuck is wrong with you?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 3: No, if I'm just saying, like I even know, that's.
Speaker 5: To telling folks that dungeons the dragons with Satan, John
Speaker 5: Todd's and an ocultist who's did did ears for rape
Speaker 5: and all sorts of other stuff. So you know, there
Speaker 5: was a lot of what I'm saying is there was
Speaker 5: there was a satanic panic. There was also satanic human
Speaker 5: sacrifices going on, and then they there was a mixture
Speaker 5: of convincing folks. It's anyone who listens to Slayer or
Speaker 5: has long hair and wears a black T shirt, it's
Speaker 5: suddenly you know of Satan, right, Yeah, Well, are.
Speaker 7: You guys familiar with the Memphis three he is and
Speaker 7: that whole trial of three teenagers who were literally only
Speaker 7: guilty of listening to Metallica, and.
Speaker 1: He he'll disagree with you on that one.
Speaker 9: I say, I'm gonna have to disagree with you.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of friends of Evin and saying their
Speaker 5: own admissions. They're big Krowleyites, and they admitted so under
Speaker 5: oath even in the hearing echoes.
Speaker 8: That is well, that's a more in depth.
Speaker 7: But there's also a lot of things that were stretched
Speaker 7: in that situation, including a man that had a mail
Speaker 7: order law degree that claimed that he was a specialist
Speaker 7: in Satanic everything, which was hilarious to me that he
Speaker 7: was even called to be a specialist in that case.
Speaker 1: So oh yeah, well, I will say that that guy
Speaker 1: was kind of joke. Yeah, I'll agree with that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll claiming that fixes in on both sides. But
Speaker 5: if you listen to the original detective's work, those fellas
Speaker 5: on the ground and their reports, they did a great
Speaker 5: job and they again even got some great admissions from
Speaker 5: all parties. So a lot of stuff was spun later
Speaker 5: and again I think there were the fix was in
Speaker 5: trying to come on the state to mix it up,
Speaker 5: because this isn't occult network, I would argue, is large
Speaker 5: and extensive, but nonetheless, uh, you know, as far as
Speaker 5: keeping these matters under under control, not that you know
Speaker 5: those guys are working for somebody. I'm just saying it's
Speaker 5: a it's a network that covers its own tracks, if
Speaker 5: you will. But there's a lot of forensic evidence that
Speaker 5: does not do favor for any of those gentlemen. And
Speaker 5: today they they claimed to be innocent, but they on
Speaker 5: paper they signed an Alfred play out for plea.
Speaker 9: By it's very nature is a play of guilt.
Speaker 7: I'm I'm aware of what plea they use. But you know,
Speaker 7: there was specifically the kid who was the one who
Speaker 7: admitted guilt was who had the mental capacity of a
Speaker 7: nine year old and he was yes, And he was
Speaker 7: interrogated without his parents' permission. And all of those recordings
Speaker 7: are available online and they are absolutely absolutely coerced in
Speaker 7: every way sense of the word.
Speaker 5: And are you familiar with the statements of Damien Eckles
Speaker 5: probation officer.
Speaker 8: No, I'm not, off the top of my head, they don't.
Speaker 9: They don't.
Speaker 5: They don't bed well for Damien. I understand Jesse miss
Speaker 5: kellying again that things were I don't disagree.
Speaker 9: I don't. I'm not signing off on the event.
Speaker 5: The full fledged nature of all those activities went on
Speaker 5: in that investigation and proceedings in court, but a lot
Speaker 5: of it became a circus.
Speaker 9: If you asked me.
Speaker 5: But I'm saying that the initial investigation and the guys
Speaker 5: on the ground, there's initial detectives.
Speaker 9: I give them two THO is.
Speaker 5: Up for their for their for their police work, because
Speaker 5: they did some great, some great stuff there. And I'm
Speaker 5: not saying that again they didn't possibly uh, you know,
Speaker 5: want to get more evidence from all parties. But again,
Speaker 5: the evidence they got from folks like the probation officer
Speaker 5: of Eccles et cetera, where he had statements that what
Speaker 5: you would call an investigation would be you know, statements
Speaker 5: that are they are reserved to the investigators, and they
Speaker 5: call them polygraph keys.
Speaker 9: For an example, would be one one reference.
Speaker 5: And it's something that when you're questioning your your your suspects,
Speaker 5: or just any kind of investing in your investigation, that
Speaker 5: if folks know those details, then they know then you know,
Speaker 5: they know something about the intimate details of the crime.
Speaker 5: So Eckles had numerous of those flags with this probation
Speaker 5: officer and under questioning.
Speaker 3: All right, well again and back to the cemeteries.
Speaker 5: Uh, yes, I apologize for for geeking out on the
Speaker 5: rustal human sacrifice murders.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I understand it, But it is
Speaker 1: cemeteries on the on this topic. Yeah, yes, I did
Speaker 1: want to start asking you about symbolism that were on
Speaker 1: these things. You also did mention I think beehives, correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: could you maybe get into that, like some of the
Speaker 1: things you noticed, So a little.
Speaker 7: Bit about that is kind of the idea of community
Speaker 7: and of you know, working for the greater good. So
Speaker 7: it's you know, one of those things where the bee
Speaker 7: is by itself. It can't accomplish much, but together it
Speaker 7: can accomplish many great things, which is an interesting, I think,
Speaker 7: an interesting symbol to be found.
Speaker 8: I haven't seen any.
Speaker 7: Myself, but I know that they exist a lot in
Speaker 7: the Midwest, and there are some ties. I want to say,
Speaker 7: there's some ties to certain fraternal orders that may also
Speaker 7: have that the beehive on there as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know Mormons and Mason's huge with that basically
Speaker 1: the same thing. I also know you did mention I
Speaker 1: think in their roosters, correct, What was the situation that
Speaker 1: was something that you would notice? I guess on specific
Speaker 1: the rooster.
Speaker 8: I actually have to look that one up one off
Speaker 8: the top of my head.
Speaker 6: Is the rooster specifically or is it the chicken foot?
Speaker 8: No, it's the rooster, Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that could be a symbol for mercury or.
Speaker 8: Like kurme sometimes, so I'm sorry, what I.
Speaker 1: Know it can be like a symbol for like Mercury
Speaker 1: type of gods sometimes the.
Speaker 7: Rooster, faith, victory over death, strength, fidelity, spiritual protection, and power.
Speaker 7: As far as the areas, you're going to see a
Speaker 7: lot of that in uh, there are a lot of
Speaker 7: areas around South Florida that you're going to find roosters,
Speaker 7: because roosters are common in Cuba, and they're common in
Speaker 7: Key West, and they're also common in Tampa, believe it
Speaker 7: or not, because a lot of the Cuban population moved
Speaker 7: to Tampa, so you see a lot of those there.
Speaker 7: I haven't seen any myself, but that was something that
Speaker 7: I talked about when I got into the symbolism of
Speaker 7: the animals.
Speaker 6: And that's cool. You bring up that they're spiritual protectors
Speaker 6: because the chicken foot, I brought that up. That's a
Speaker 6: sign for protection and warding off bad spirits. And then
Speaker 6: depending sometimes you'll see the nails painted different colors. I
Speaker 6: believe purple is more for spiritual and red is for
Speaker 6: any just general negativity. I actually have a chicken foot tattoo.
Speaker 8: That's cool.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so that's I was curious. I got my chicken
Speaker 6: foot nice.
Speaker 8: I love that.
Speaker 1: Was there any other like we've gone on a bit already,
Speaker 1: I mean, but is there any other type of symbolism
Speaker 1: that you think you can like maybe mention or that
Speaker 1: you noticed that you would like to talk about, like
Speaker 1: or like certain kind of like either symbols of art
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 7: I guess, okay, So there's one that I really like.
Speaker 7: As someone who likes to read. There are a lot
Speaker 7: of books that you're going to see on headstones and mausoleums. Now,
Speaker 7: an open book usually means that a person's life was
Speaker 7: cut short, as in they didn't finish reading the chapter,
Speaker 7: they didn't get to the last chapter. Sometimes if you
Speaker 7: see the book closed, that can indicate that someone made
Speaker 7: it to their last chapter and that they had a
Speaker 7: long and happy life. And then sometimes the book can
Speaker 7: mean in a lot of situations, it can represent the Bible.
Speaker 7: That is usually the other third most popular one. And
Speaker 7: another one that I thought was kind of neat that
Speaker 7: is mostly found in the South. I've found for my research,
Speaker 7: mostly in Florida and Texas, is the shells on graves,
Speaker 7: so in the grave itself almost like laid into the concrete.
Speaker 7: And that was something that you found a lot on
Speaker 7: African graves. And the idea was that the ocean brought
Speaker 7: African Americans to this country and that the ocean would
Speaker 7: bring their spirits home. I thought that was kind of sweet,
Speaker 7: and I found that to be an interesting and I
Speaker 7: have found quite a few graves that have shells on
Speaker 7: them and the interesting thing to note about Texas is
Speaker 7: they're obviously, depending on where you are in Texas, you
Speaker 7: might not be very close to the water. But there
Speaker 7: were people that lived in Texas that were charged with
Speaker 7: going to the ocean and collecting water to I guess
Speaker 7: harvest salt. And a lot of those people that did
Speaker 7: that were African Americans.
Speaker 8: So the shells were a nod to that too, which
Speaker 8: was interesting.
Speaker 7: And yeah, there's I mean, there's quite a few different
Speaker 7: symbols in the book.
Speaker 8: I do talk about just about every flower.
Speaker 7: And what's neat about when I work with this publisher
Speaker 7: was that I don't have pictures of every single flower
Speaker 7: of the in the world on a headstone. But what
Speaker 7: we did was we made some AI images so that way,
Speaker 7: if someone is in a cemetery and they do find
Speaker 7: a flower carved into a grave, you can, you know,
Speaker 7: you'll have a guide to kind of look and try
Speaker 7: to match the flower, because sometimes I found in my wanderings,
Speaker 7: you know, you might see something that looks like a daffodil,
Speaker 7: maybe it might be something else. Maybe it could be
Speaker 7: a morning glory, maybe it might be some sort of lily.
Speaker 7: So it's kind of nice to have at least something
Speaker 7: in your hand that you can quickly kind of shift
Speaker 7: through to see which flower might mean what. And there
Speaker 7: are quite a few different flower symbolisms which are pretty neat.
Speaker 3: Did you notice a lot of daisies.
Speaker 7: I do see a lot of daisies, And that was
Speaker 7: one that came up as purity I think is the main,
Speaker 7: the main symbolism to that one, and you see it
Speaker 7: a lot on younger people's graves. And one thing that
Speaker 7: came up over and over again was daisies kind of
Speaker 7: reminded people of just joy and happiness and the light
Speaker 7: of someone's life.
Speaker 8: And that was something that came up a lot.
Speaker 7: Is somebody who was the light in a family was
Speaker 7: often given daisies.
Speaker 1: Do you ever notice daisies and seashells together? I have not, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the reason even as daisies, because when you mentioned seashells,
Speaker 1: I do believe they're actually cult symbolism. I think they're
Speaker 1: both used for the same thing.
Speaker 7: Also, I mean if you see seashells carved into the
Speaker 7: graves but not physical, if you see seashells carved a
Speaker 7: lot of times, that it's a Christian symbolism.
Speaker 8: And it had something to do with opties.
Speaker 7: So I know we talked a little bit about scallops
Speaker 7: last time, the scallop shells, but because you said that
Speaker 7: you were talking about the venus and there being eyes
Speaker 7: and something. But in Christian symbolism for graves, a lot
Speaker 7: of times when you're baptized back in the day, they
Speaker 7: used to do a big scallop shell and they would
Speaker 7: scoop it and they would pour the water on the
Speaker 7: person's head it was being baptized, and in a you know,
Speaker 7: a sense of Christianity, if you have a shell on
Speaker 7: your grave, it often symbolized the willingness to forgive the
Speaker 7: original sin of Adam and Eve and to devote oneself
Speaker 7: to God.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. It's interesting how you mentioned that. I love
Speaker 1: how you mentioned the pouring of the water because this
Speaker 1: is like one of the reasons why I think the
Speaker 1: seashell u and I a would even you know seashell
Speaker 1: The daisy in two uh kind of like represents the
Speaker 1: same thing. In the eye. You have the back part
Speaker 1: of your eyeball, it has the vitorious humor in there,
Speaker 1: and that is where the blood is, which I think
Speaker 1: is a symbolar like the blood of Christ in some
Speaker 1: way as you come down and you hit the this
Speaker 1: is the scalaire no, the order of Serrata, the order Serrata,
Speaker 1: and then the lenses was over there it looks like
Speaker 1: a seashell or a daisy. And then right underneath there
Speaker 1: is where the order the water is in your eye,
Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, I mean it literally like
Speaker 1: the seashell or the daisy's there and there's the water
Speaker 1: right there. Like it's the same fucking image. So I
Speaker 1: do think that you actually see the baptips, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: is in the eyeball. But uh, yeah, that's that's why
Speaker 1: I like that you brought up the seashell in the
Speaker 1: water because that's what I see going on in there
Speaker 1: in my opinion. But interesting, Uh anything else? Did you
Speaker 1: like to add maybe or anybody have any questions as well?
Speaker 4: I do. I do. When you went to the gravestones
Speaker 4: in Mexico, did you see a lot of simple so chill.
Speaker 4: I think that's how you pronounce the not one the marygold,
Speaker 4: the Mexican marigold.
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, that is a very common flower to see
Speaker 7: on late at grave sites. And that's also a very
Speaker 7: common flower to see carved into headstones of people that
Speaker 7: have Mexican lineage, and it is I think it's a
Speaker 7: really pretty flower. And I you know, when you when
Speaker 7: you go there and you see the color is such
Speaker 7: a beautiful contrast to that cold stone, you know, backdropped
Speaker 7: and then you have this beautiful, beautiful pops of color.
Speaker 7: I've actually really would like to go during the Dia
Speaker 7: delos Moritos Day of the Dead celebrations. It's it's so
Speaker 7: hard for me to get out there around that time.
Speaker 7: It's just kind of like a crazy time of the year.
Speaker 4: Beautiful.
Speaker 7: Yes, I've seen so many pictures of it, but you can.
Speaker 7: It's definitely when you when you see the properties. That
Speaker 7: is a very common flower to see left a head
Speaker 7: at the headstones, and I think people do go pretty often.
Speaker 7: It's one thing I noticed about Mexico is people go
Speaker 7: pretty often to refresh the flowers. You see a lot
Speaker 7: of fresh flowers when you go. And another country that
Speaker 7: I noticed that happens a lot is in Greece, and
Speaker 7: I think it's something about and also in Japan is families.
Speaker 7: I think in the United States, you know, I know
Speaker 7: from my own family, we might go to a grave once,
Speaker 7: maybe twice, a year. But in those cultures it's something
Speaker 7: that you do all the time, and you go periodically
Speaker 7: for different celebrations, different festivals, different holidays, birthdays.
Speaker 8: It's normal to go and to.
Speaker 7: Refresh and it's I think that's really sweet and I wish,
Speaker 7: you know, we had a little bit more of that
Speaker 7: in our country.
Speaker 4: It was it was always on all holidays, birthdays, anniversaries
Speaker 4: or anything like that. You go when you refresh the flowers,
Speaker 4: and you also leave a jar of water m hm.
Speaker 7: And that's also common, very very common in Japan. And
Speaker 7: I actually have a really cool video. I'd love to
Speaker 7: share it with you. I was in the I was
Speaker 7: a little north of Tokyo and I was at a
Speaker 7: shrine and just past the shrine there was a cemetery
Speaker 7: and I was just walking.
Speaker 8: It was very quiet, there was hardly anybody there and in.
Speaker 7: Front of these so Japanese headstones are a little different
Speaker 7: than ours. They're usually a large block with a slightly
Speaker 7: smaller block, and then they're behind the large block there's
Speaker 7: like a it's almost like a vase. And they have
Speaker 7: these long boards that are printed with different prayers and
Speaker 7: also family members information, and these boards can be interchanged
Speaker 7: and moved, and usually right in the front they put
Speaker 7: cups and sometimes they're water, sometimes they're tea. And on
Speaker 7: this particular day, I was just walking and I happened
Speaker 7: to notice there was a few full cups and they
Speaker 7: looked like tea. And so I'm standing there, you know,
Speaker 7: just enjoying the view, and I see a huge crow
Speaker 7: come up.
Speaker 8: So the crow flies over, it sits, it looks up
Speaker 8: at the grave. It's looking around.
Speaker 7: It comes closer to the cup and it starts drinking
Speaker 7: from the cup, and then it looks up and it
Speaker 7: keeps its mouth open, and it looked like it was
Speaker 7: trying to look at the grave. It is the freakiest
Speaker 7: thing I have ever seen. And it's there for a while,
Speaker 7: and it really felt like some sort of spiritual thing.
Speaker 7: It really did, because the bird was there for a
Speaker 7: good ten minutes. And I have most of this on
Speaker 7: video of just sitting very still looking up at the
Speaker 7: grave as if it's reading it and taking SIPs out
Speaker 7: of the tee.
Speaker 8: Just it was wild. But that was another place that
Speaker 8: you find a lot of offerings like that.
Speaker 1: Did anybody want to ask anything else?
Speaker 10: Did you come across any number symbolism and or were
Speaker 10: there any more like other rather secreted kind of things
Speaker 10: you mentioned, like the Freemasons, if they did something significant.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I haven't really noticed anything with number symbolism,
Speaker 7: but I would say there's some interesting kind of you know,
Speaker 7: some kind of more secretive symbols. You know, might include
Speaker 7: trying to think off the top of my head, like
Speaker 7: something warm, a cob, chains, broken chains. You'll see that
Speaker 7: if someone life is cut short. But it also could
Speaker 7: have something to do I saw on and I don't
Speaker 7: want to say that for sure, but there was something
Speaker 7: to do with maybe breaking chains from your religious path,
Speaker 7: like breaking chains, breaking out of the norm, but that
Speaker 7: wasn't as commonly reported. But a lot of those symbols
Speaker 7: are so that I'm not totally sure about.
Speaker 8: I didn't report it.
Speaker 7: In the book, but it is something that came up
Speaker 7: in a few personal blogs and things. I really didn't
Speaker 7: come across too many things that were nefarious or you know,
Speaker 7: negative necessarily, But if you dig into any sort of
Speaker 7: you know, occult symbolism, you might find and that there
Speaker 7: might be certain placements of fruit that might mean something.
Speaker 7: There could be you know, in paintings, there are certain
Speaker 7: symbolisms that have a darker meaning. So I guess it
Speaker 7: depends if you're looking for that, and wasn't. I wasn't
Speaker 7: really seeking it out. I was trying to just find
Speaker 7: the general symbolisms. So I think that could be another
Speaker 7: treasure hunt.
Speaker 2: Fascinating stuff.
Speaker 1: Thank you, well, thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate it,
Speaker 1: had a great time. I would like you, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: hopefully maybe actually get you on for some of your investigations.
Speaker 1: So I would love that, Yeah, because I have seen
Speaker 1: some impressive stuff that you've boasted on that as well.
Speaker 1: So uh, I guess we'll go back around the ruin.
Speaker 1: Let everybody like their shows again. Sorry with you, Ethan.
Speaker 1: Please let everybody know where they can find all your
Speaker 1: amazing work and all your books.
Speaker 2: That was awesome, Gana, thank you so much for sharing
Speaker 2: those great Ethan Indigo Smith on all the usual social media.
Speaker 2: More articles to come on a Cult Reject Institute Research Institute.
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks you guys. Hell yeah, well, thank
Speaker 1: you Eave and mister J. J. Vanski's the vice president.
Speaker 1: What's going on, sir.
Speaker 9: Nick, Thanks again, sir, appreciate the conversation. Genia.
Speaker 5: Was great to meet you, ma'am fellow rejects. Always a
Speaker 5: fun time. Yeah, Operation GCD, uh wed's they talking what's today?
Speaker 11: Tuesday Tomorrow, I'm talking robin Hood and nights Templar Tale
Speaker 11: and some comparative analysis of the story of Robinhood the
Speaker 11: Magna Carta in the US Constitution.
Speaker 5: And then Friday, we actually have ething coming on Nick
Speaker 5: on Fridays this week here at nine pm Eastern Standard times.
Speaker 5: And then Operation GCD Sundays on Patreon, I'm talking Buffalo
Speaker 5: Jared Visa, one of my one of my favorite topics,
Speaker 5: my old former almost PR reps slash stalker termed apparently
Speaker 5: mind controlled multi state homicidal transpocalypse assassin.
Speaker 9: So that'll be a fun filled barn burner tail right there.
Speaker 3: So don't forget.
Speaker 5: I appreciate time. Good go ahead, now thanks again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem the role and don't forget remember this guy, Jared,
Speaker 1: he was a licensed hypnotherapist.
Speaker 5: Was oh he's yeah dude from a prominent family. They
Speaker 5: broke the curse of speaking of curses, they broke the
Speaker 5: curse of the goat. The family business did the Revisa
Speaker 5: sports hypnotist business. The Chicago Cubs credit them Ken Revisa
Speaker 5: as the reason why they won the World series. Finally,
Speaker 5: it was almost predicted by Back to the Future too.
Speaker 5: Back to Future two predicted it in twenty fifteen. It
Speaker 5: occurred in twenty sixteen, So that's a that's a weird
Speaker 5: kind of you know, because we just said the Back
Speaker 5: to the Future review. I was like, that's a weird
Speaker 5: kind of synchronous the event right there. But yeah, no,
Speaker 5: I it's a strange tale. But again Brette time again
Speaker 5: post of Operation GCD jj Vangan's not the vice president.
Speaker 1: If people are listening catching this or the replay before
Speaker 1: tomorrow night, I highly suggest to go check out that
Speaker 1: show tomorrow. You already know it's going to be a banger.
Speaker 1: I'm actually going to check it out. I'd really like
Speaker 1: to see what he's got to say on this. And
Speaker 1: Brooke from Dark Florida please let everybody know where they
Speaker 1: can find your amazing show.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram and wherever you
Speaker 6: get your podcasts at Dark Florida Podcasts. And thank you
Speaker 6: for having me on again. Love joining the fellow rejects.
Speaker 6: And it was so nice to get to talk to you. Gina.
Speaker 6: You've given me much to think about, especially because a
Speaker 6: lot I know, somebody dropped in the chat about cemeteries
Speaker 6: and cryptids, and they do overlap a lot. So I'm
Speaker 6: anxious to get a copy of your book so I
Speaker 6: can start seeing some more about it.
Speaker 7: Thank you, and I'd love to talk with you about
Speaker 7: some cryptid stories of my own. I know that wasn't
Speaker 7: really the aim tonight, but it's definitely live in a
Speaker 7: fun state for that, so we certainly do.
Speaker 1: And last but not Lisa, Lisa, what is going on
Speaker 1: you called reject science?
Speaker 4: Yes, Gina, thank you so much for that. Yet, like
Speaker 4: Brooke said, so much, like I wrote down so many
Speaker 4: notes of things I look into, and I appreciate all
Speaker 4: the work, the research that you did going to all
Speaker 4: these different cemeteries. That's that's a big deal, I think,
Speaker 4: and I look forward to looking into listening to your
Speaker 4: investigations on some of this other stuff because I think
Speaker 4: that's that kind of ties everything together. But anyway, thank
Speaker 4: you so much, and thank you fellow a cult rejects
Speaker 4: as well, And the only thing I have to plug
Speaker 4: is a cult research institute dot org. Thank you for
Speaker 4: the invite.
Speaker 1: Awesome, no, thank you. And finally, Gina, please let everybody
Speaker 1: know where they can find your work and where they
Speaker 1: can find your book.
Speaker 6: Please, Well, thank.
Speaker 8: You so much for having me.
Speaker 7: I really enjoyed our conversation tonight and I am so
Speaker 7: happy to meet all of you guys, Ethan, JJ, Brooke,
Speaker 7: and it was nice to see you again, Lisa and Nick.
Speaker 7: And if anybody is interested in checking out my work,
Speaker 7: you can visit she haunts dot com and there are
Speaker 7: links to my book. You can get it on Kindle.
Speaker 7: It's also available on paperback via Amazon right now, and
Speaker 7: it will soon be available on Barnes.
Speaker 8: Andnoble dot com.
Speaker 7: And on my Instagram account you can check out paranormal
Speaker 7: There's all kinds of little cemetery hidden meaning videos. I
Speaker 7: do just do tidbits, little bite sized portions, so you
Speaker 7: can learn a little fun fact here and there if
Speaker 7: you'd like.
Speaker 8: There's also I do.
Speaker 7: A lot of paranormal research locally and also around the country,
Speaker 7: so there's some videos on that.
Speaker 8: And I'm just open to, you know.
Speaker 7: Meeting new people, new like minded, you know, paranormal enthusiasts,
Speaker 7: cemetery lovers, so please come by and say hi. I
Speaker 7: try to interact with everybody and get to know everybody
Speaker 7: on there, and I.
Speaker 8: Just want to say thank you again for having me
Speaker 8: and letting me talk.
Speaker 7: About my book, and that is called etchedIn Stone Decoding
Speaker 7: Hidden Meetings and Cemeteries. And I really appreciate every you know,
Speaker 7: everybody's input in questions and getting to know you guys.
Speaker 8: It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 7: I love I love being able to come on and
Speaker 7: talk with like minded folks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, thank you very much. I really appreciate it
Speaker 1: for people listening, you know, I know, obviously, believe it
Speaker 1: or not, most of the people that listen to this
Speaker 1: show are probably into the occult or occultists. I just
Speaker 1: you know, for me, I think if you're into the occult,
Speaker 1: you're definitely gonna like this book.
Speaker 3: So check it out.
Speaker 1: You're gonna find a lot of like just random information
Speaker 1: things that you'll be like, oh that is interesting. You'll
Speaker 1: find yourself someting to run jamtra and shit, that's what
Speaker 1: I was doing. So so definitely check it out if
Speaker 1: you're into the occult. I think there's some actually good
Speaker 1: gems in here that she doesn't even realize for an ocultist.
Speaker 1: So thank you again, Gina. And like I said, well,
Speaker 1: definitely have to get the crew back on. I would
Speaker 1: really like to actually have you talk about some of
Speaker 1: your you know, I guess paranormal uh experiences and the
Speaker 1: you know research that you've done. I've seen you and
Speaker 1: another thing I wanted to promote. Go check out. I
Speaker 1: don't know about you. You have to think you said
Speaker 1: TikTok or whatever. Maybe you didn't Instagram for sure. Go
Speaker 1: check out her Instagram. It's very good. The art I
Speaker 1: think of the grave sites and all that stuff beautifully done.
Speaker 1: And she has some impressive videos that she'll put up.
Speaker 1: Go check it out. It's worth looking at. And thank
Speaker 1: you will for joining. I really had a great night.
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up, especially
Speaker 1: on JJ's JJ side of the world there on his channel.
Speaker 1: You guys have me cracking the fuck up. Thank you
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, that's the end of another Recult Rejects
Speaker 1: and until the next one, oh real quick, tomorrow we
Speaker 1: might have a surprise live. I'll put it out there now.
Speaker 1: I hope to god he doesn't flake on me, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna blow some minds and we might actually have
Speaker 1: Mark from my family thinks I'm crazy on the fucking
Speaker 1: Occult Rejects. I don't know how the fucking happened. Because
Speaker 1: we're both supposed to hate each other. I want to
Speaker 1: kill each other. So if he's coming on the show,
Speaker 1: I guess things might have changed, or maybe it really
Speaker 1: wasn't that fucking serious, So come check it out. We
Speaker 1: might have him on the show.
Speaker 9: It's a nice guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just works.
Speaker 5: Some interesting he's got some interesting perspectives. I'm sure that
Speaker 5: would be a good conversation. I didn't know he's joining
Speaker 5: you all. That's that is a surprise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I invited you on it.
Speaker 5: I told you, you know, I know, I forgot you know,
Speaker 5: because I again I didn't think it was really gonna happen.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I've confirmed to him a few times already.
Speaker 9: This I found it in the department of This is
Speaker 9: probably no, I know.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually gonna happen, which is pretty wild.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: It will definitely be making uh making waves, gossip and
Speaker 1: you know whatever, making history in the conspiracy community in
Speaker 1: some way. So come check it out. If it happens tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and that is it and until the next one,
Speaker 1: everybody'd be well Later