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Speaker 2: Hello friends, and welcome back to the rabbit Hole. I'm
your host, Danny, and today we are discussing the assassination
of Robert Kennedy, brother to presid Sident John Kennedy. He
was a US Senator and candidate in the nineteen sixty
eight Democratic Party presidential primaries. On June fifth, nineteen sixty eight,
RFK was shot by Saran Saran at the Ambassador Hotel
in Los Angeles, California, or that's the story they want
you to believe. Mark Shaw is a former criminal defense
attorney and TV network trial analyst. A noted historian and
investigative reporter, he has published more than thirty books. Today,
Mark will explain why Sarn was not the killer, who
he has found to be the most likely killer, and
why it's not the CIA. All of this can also
be found in his book Abuse of Power. Hi, Mark,
thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm
really excited to learn more about Kennedy's assassin or Robert
Kennedy's asassination, because I've done a deep dive into John Kennedy,
but not his brother.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's interesting because Danielle, I never expected to
write this book.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, like, what led you here?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think you saw the array of
my books that touch on the JFK assassination, Dorothy Kilgallon's
all of that, and after the last one, you know,
I kind of it helps a little bit to put
some of this in context, if I may. I started
in by writing a book about Melvin bell I, who
was Jack Ruby's lawyer. I practiced law with him in
the nineteen eighties, and I knew him very well, and
I knew about his affiliations with the mafia. So I
wrote called Melvin Belly King of the Courtroom, and then
I was done. But then I learned that he was
involved with Mickey Cohen, who was a gangster at the time,
and that the bell I may have known about the
assassination before it happened. So that's one of the things
that kind of made me go forward. Also, then I
looked into the nineteen sixty election. You're way too young
to remember, but Joe Kennedy had the idea that you know,
he wanted to be president of the United States, and unfortunately,
when he was ambassador a Great Great Britain during that term,
he became friends, unfortunately with Adolf Hitler, and that really
ruined his reputation. When he came back to the United States,
he knew he couldn't become president, so he decided Joe
Kennedy Junior will be president, although he died then in
the war. Then Jack, then Bobby, and then Ted. He
saw a real dynasty of Kennedy's in the White.
Speaker 2: House, so he wanted them all to be president.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Okay, absolutely, So I looked at the sixty election,
and Joe knew they were going to lose because Richard
Nixon was ahead and so on and so forth. So
Joe incorporated some of the people he knew from his
bootleging days, including Carlos Marcello, Troffacante, all the bad guys,
and they helped him win the elections in West Virginia
and in Illinois. Deil was you'll help us win, We'll
leave you alone when we get in the White House.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well that didn't happen because Bobby Kennedy, and a lot
of that comes from this book right here, which changed
everything about what happened to the subjects of my research
in the past. It was called enemy it was called
the enemy within by Bobby Kennedy. And you can just
get an idea of what the let the mafioso must
have thought when they read that. He wrote, they are sleek,
often billious, and fat or lean and cold and hard.
They have smooth, smooth faces and cruel eyes of gangsters.
They wear the same rich clothes, the diamond ring, the
jeweled watch, and get this one, the strong, sickly sweet
smelling perfume. Bobby Kennedy went after these guys because of
what had happened at racketeering hearings before JFK became president.
Those racketeers, those mafioso took the Fifth Amendment, and so
on and so forth. And Bobby Kennedy then just dedicate
was going to dedicate himself to erasing them from the
face of the earth.
Speaker 2: Did he know about his dad's connection with the mafia
at that point?
Speaker 3: What's that?
Speaker 2: Did Bobby Kennedy know about his dad's connections with the mafia?
Speaker 3: Excellent question? Absolutely? Okay, absolutely, And he knew about the
fixed election in sixty So now we turned to nineteen
sixty one when they're in office, and the first thing
that Bobby Kennedy does is something that just amazing that
he tried to do it, but he went ahead and
he deported this Carlos Marcelo, who was a probably the
most dangerous mafioso in the country at that time, New
Orleans and everything. We'll get into that, but he deported
him to Central America. He tricked him into going to
an immigration office in New Orleans, and he sent him
to Central America where Marcella almost died. Wow. So I
took that information and then I started looking into Marcello's
possible participation in JFK's death at that time. And the
real key was my finding out about a woman named
Dorothy Kilgallon, a famous journalist at the time. A lot
of people don't know too much about her, and I
didn't at the time. She was a college dropout. I
think you'll be impressed if you don't know already that
she had to overcome gender discrimination, sexual discrimination. When she
became a reporter. They wouldn't let her handle many of
the important cases at the time.
Speaker 2: I believe it, and so you know, she.
Speaker 3: Had to battle her way into getting noticed and so
on and so forth. She was a newspaper woman who
was syndicated to two hundred newspapers across the country. She
had a radio show listened to by a million people
and many people. Again you're probably too young to remember,
but the big show she was on was What's My Line,
which was a quiz show CBS had every Sunday night
at ten o'clock live. Dorothy was the star performer. They
guessed unusual occupations for people and things like that. So
she was the real deal. And when before JFK died,
she had become very good friends with him. He had
come to her home on East sixty eighth Street, played charades.
They saw each other socially. Jackie Kennedy was there. I
think Bobby Kennedy was even there. I mean, this was
a big deal. Dorothy was the social light at that time,
so she became friends with him to the point where
at one point he invited her and her youngest son
a carry to the White House Wow. And while we
were there, JFK came into the library. He made a
fuss over a Carrie, gave him a PT one nine
pin and all that, and then praised him for the
letters that he brought from his third grade class. In fact,
when JFK dies, the first column that Dorothy writes is
has contains this language. What I remember is is a
tall man stooping over a little boy, praising him for
the letters he brought from third grade class. This is
the man who was assassinated in Dallas. So Dorothy made
this personal, and she went to Dallas, and she interviewed
first of all the Dallas police chief and his will
all come back to for us to talk about Bobby Kennedy.
But his book I found, which is a very rare
book in some archives, and it is his story. And
she found out right away from Jesse Curry. He said
to her the shots came from the front, not from
the back. They came from the overpass or the Grassy Knole,
and so she knew that. She then interviewed a detective
who knew who was with Jack Ruby when he was
arrested and found out that Ruby was very calm after
I'm sorry. Ruby was very nervous after he shot Oswald,
but then when he found out Oswald was dead, he
was very calm. And that will come back for our
talks when we lead into Sir Hans, Sir Han and
Robert Kennedy's death. So she found out all of this.
She did her research and the very first column that
she wrote was called the Oswald Alone Must Not File.
She was on the job, she was in Dallas. She
went to the Jack Ruby trial. There is a photograph
at the Excuse Me at the Dorothy kilgallonstory dot Org.
That's in the book. She's standing in the middle of
the courtroom at the doctor Sam Shephard case which became
the Fugitive movie, and all the other reporters are around
her looking at her in admiration because she had to
trust she was a woman of the truth. And I
would say, just a little research I've done about you,
you're like that, you know where you're always looking for
the truth. No, I mean that, and I admire that.
So she wrote the Oswald file must not close about
Oswald because she didn't believe about the Oswald doing it,
you know, him being the lone gunman. And she wrote
in there, they've killed the president. The government is not
prepared to tell us the truth, and I'm going to
do everything in my power to find out what happened.
Speaker 2: Oh man. And they did not want that to happen,
not at all. I was going to ask you about it, Dorothy,
because I didn't. I didn't know her story at all.
So I'm glad that you're getting into this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she just put a target on her back
at you know, obviously there because you've got powerful men
like Jay Edgar Hoover shouting out Oswald alone, this mafioso,
Carlos Marcelo, who had we'll go back to that for
a minute. Nineteen sixty one comes around, and then we'll
get to nineteen sixty three and Carlos Marcelo has been
deported to Central America. He comes back in the United
States as a famous author told me that the Sicilian's
middle name is revenge, and when he got back, he
wanted to kill the sob as he put it Robert Kennedy,
but he knew if he did that, JFK and the
government would come after everything, come after him with everything
they had. So he set it up to orchestrate the
death of JFK in Dallas. And you say, you've already
looked into all of that. So he did that, and
that eliminated JFK. So Bobby Kennedy would be powerless, all right,
And that was the effect of him doing that. And
you'll find out now that I put in this book.
Nobody I don't think has ever put in context the
death of JFK in sixty well, actually Marilyn Monroe in
sixty one or sixty two, but JFK in sixty three,
Dorothyan sixty five, and Robert Kennedy in nineteen sixty eight.
So you can see the parallels between how these death
occurred and using, in my opinion, in my research, these
patsys that come along Oswald, first Ruby and so on and
so forth.
Speaker 2: So do you think the Kennedy has killed Marilyn Monroe?
Speaker 3: Do you want to stop there? We certainly can't get
into that.
Speaker 2: I just I thought i'd asked the questions since we've forgot.
Speaker 3: No that's just fine. So let's let's go there, because
it's Bobby Kennedy all over again. Yeah, Merril Monroe was
Dorothy kill Gallan's involved in this, okay, because she and
Marylyn were very good friends. And the day that Marylyn died,
Dorothy kill Gallen wrote an article that said, Marilyn Monroe
is on the upswing. She's got Broadway offers, movie offers,
and she's about to She's involved in a romantic relationship
with someone whose name is stronger than Joe DiMaggio, who
was the great baseball player she had been married to, right,
and so she wrote that about Marylyn, believing that Marylyn
was doing just fine. She had also mentioned that Marylyn
had just moved into a house she had always wanted.
You know, she had a tough time growing up. She
had a tough time with the men in Hollywood trying
to use her and all that. She finally became a
star and was able to go ahead and buy this
home in Brentwood, California, near Ucla, And so Dorothy said,
you know, she had everything to live for. That same day,
the headlines across the world were Merrilyn Monroe commits suicide
and Dorothy did not believe that at all. So I
started looking into that for a book called Collateral Damage
by Connecting the connecting Bobby Kennedy, Dorothy Kilgallan, and Marilyn Monroe.
And what I was able to find out was, and
a lot of this, I know you're you're interested in
conspiracies where unfortunately distortions of history occur. I think the
Good Lord put me on the earth to find these
distortions and try to eliminate them. And one of them
was all about Dorothy or Maryland before and this and
that up in Lake Tahoe and the mobsters were up
there and everything else like that. But the real facts
were that that Maryland had made a big mistake. She
had told the Kennedys that she was going to the
media and she was going to talk about the the
COLO talk secrets whatever they mean, including matters of national security,
including you probably know that JFK was looking to assassinate,
have Fidel Castro assassinated. Well, you can't do that with
these kind of powerful men that he used, that abused
power and all of that, and so Marilyn then and
I've been able to show in my book exactly what happened.
I've put Bobby Kennedy in Los Angeles, although he said
he was in San Francisco. I put him in Los
Angeles at the twentieth century Fox Heliport where he landed.
I put him in a car where a policeman in
Beverly Hills stopped him for going too quickly. He and
the chauffeur and all of that. And then what I've
been able to show, it's the first time I think
in calladal damage and now more about it in this
book is how Bobby Kennedy, who went to her home
allegedly and I think he probably did that day and
tried to talk her out of going to the media.
They could not let her go to the media. Just
couldn't happen. And so he went to the home. He
tried to talk about it, she wouldn't listen. And then
I found I'm very proud of the fact that I
find these witnesses that nobody else does, because it makes
an awful lot of difference. Yeah, and I hear from
people all around the world. There's almost fifteen million views
of my presentation about all my books the last four
especially on YouTube, and I hear from people. Then who've
watched those, and we'll talk about a couple of them
in depth. But this woman, a nurse in Boston, got
in touch with me. She knew the Kennedy family. She
had gone skiing with them. She knew JFK, Ted and
Bobby and all of them, and she sold some and
even Joe, and she told some kind of sorid stories
about them. You know, the Kennedys were good, bad, and ugly.
In my opinion. They did some good things. Bobby did
some good things with civil rights. JFK I think was
going to get this out of Vietnam and things like that.
But they also I mean, she tells the story of
the Kennedy of going to a restaurant where the Kennedy
family was several times and the waitresses would bring the
bill and they would just leave without even paying it.
And these are millionaires. Yeah, so it's a small point,
but kind of indicative of the arrogance that they had.
So I found this nurse and she told me that
she knew the two people who were involved in Dorothy
in Marilyn Monroe's death. They were two thugs around the
Boston area. In fact, they had gone ahead and eliminated
this nurse's grandfather because he had crossed them up, and
so on and so forth, and she was able to
say that they visited her home and they started talking
about exactly what happened with Maryland on the night she died.
That they were there and they the door or the
window was left open they could get in there. And
I don't want to get into two of exactly how
they killed her, but it had to do with ingesting
barbituates into her system. And that's how Marilyn Monroe died. Now,
there's been all this conjecture about everything else involved in
all of that, but I think this nurse was very
credible because one thing she said is Mark, all you
have to do is look at the face of Marilyn
Monroe when she died. It's kind of a grovelly gray,
and if you look at it, it is she said,
that's the indication of what I'm telling you about how
they ingested these barbituates into her system. So I believe
that's what happened to Marilyn Monroe. I'm a former criminal
defense lawyer, as you know, so I look at MODI
with all of these these cases. But as I did
when I was a defense lawyer. In fact, I've never
had any training with actual writing skills. Maybe that would
have been a good idea, But I talked to the
reader like I talked to jury's like a prosecutor. I
know that way. So I put all that in a
couple of the books and everything, and based on motive,
Bobby Kennedy Jack too, but Bobby Kennedy. Jack Kenny had
dumped her, as you know. But Bobby Kennedy had a
torrid love affair with her. And in the book there
is a CIA document that I have, you know, have
corroborated through other evidence, and it talks about Bobby's toward
love affair with Maryland to the point where Maryland thought
that Bobby was going to leave Ethel and marry Maryland.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. I knew that they had an affair. I
knew that both both brothers had, but I didn't know
that it was that intense.
Speaker 3: So Bobby can't can't let Merilyn Monroe die, just as
Carlos Marcelo is not going to let Bobby Kennedy become
president in the United States in nineteen sixty eight. So
that's the Maryland story. There's more to it. In the
book readers to learn about that. But I've tried to
really be careful with in my research direct evidence and
speculate and so on and so forth, because I pride myself
on doing that, just as I did when I was
dealing with evidence in the courtroom.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I thought that since we're talking about
I might as well bring it up. But let's let's
move on with the Dorothy Killigan story.
Speaker 3: Okay, so it's actually to kill Gallan, but that was
cloy don't worry about it, no problem. So Dorothy was
on the job. Okay. After JFK died, she went to Dallas,
she talked to Jesse Curry. She didn't believe the Oswald
alone file. She came back and she wrote, I think
there are sixteen columns that she wrote. They were not
kind to those people who were shouting Oswald alone and
then pulled something that really upset them. Because as I've
proven the in the book, and readers will be interesting
to know, this always happens, it seems like, and I
hope it will happen with your viewers. When they see
something in what I say, they will then get in
touch with me. They'll go to markshawbooks dot com. They'll
find email, and we've got about five thousand emails over
the past few years from people all around the world,
and they give me tips. So this one gentleman is
watching a video presentation at at a library near Dallas,
and he watches it and then he emails me and said, Mark,
I need to talk to you because I knew Dorothy Kilgallen.
Oh wow, Well that's a big deal because it's a
long time ago and there aren't very many of those
kinds of people. So he called me, and I couldn't believe.
I couldn't write. I wish I could have recorded it,
but I couldn't write fast enough because he told me Mark.
My name is Morris Wolfe. I was an attorney in Washington,
d C. I became involved working with Bobby Kennedy. In fact,
I was there when Bobby Kennedy was in the Justice
Department and JFK was president. In fact, they did not
trust j Edgar Hoover to when they talked on the
phone because they thought it was tapped. So they asked
me to go ahead, and I rode my bicycle back
and forth between the Justice Department and the White House,
taking secrets between the two brothers.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And he then said, you know, I became a legislative
assistant for Senator John Sherman Cooper of I think it's
Tennessee or Kentucky who was on the War and Commission,
And we should talk about that just a minute, if
you don't mind, because it figures into all of us.
What my research showed was I needed to find what
j Edgar Hoover and LBJ were up to when they
chose the members of the War and Commission. This is
what amazes me. You're not going to find my research
in hardly any other authors in their books because they
don't believe. They still believe Oswald alone and I obviously
don't and proven. But one of the things that was
amazing to me, and we're going to talk about it,
when you have an eyewitness who saw Sir Hans Sir
Han just before Robert Kennedy was dead. I went to
the National Archives and I found conversations audio taped conversations
between LBJ and Hoover as to who they wanted on
the commission. It's shocking. I think readers will be shocked
to see I've set it all up. Hoover says this,
then LBJ says this, and all that. The bottom line
is this, they were looking for nobody who was going
to cause a problem with what they were doing. Of
course with Oswald alone. In one instance, they even berate
the man who became President of the United States, Gerald Ford,
by saying that they use that old adage he can't
think and chew gum. At the same time, they want
people on there like that, and this Senator John Sherman
Cooper was very well respected, and they put him and
a Senator named Richard Russell on the commission because they
thought that that would give reliability to what they were
going to do. They didn't know that both of those
men did not agree with the Oswald alone solution. And
at the end of the supposed the investigation, the final report,
they demanded a dissent in there that would say they
did not believe in the single bullet theory and all
that other kind of stuff, and unfortunately it was left out.
As a historian, I sometimes think how that would have
changed everything instead of that Oswald alone craziness perpetuating to today.
That would have made a difference. But LBJ and Hoover
put a stop to vent so this. Morris wolf then says, yeah,
I knew Dorothy, and I bought this book because I
don't have it with me right now. It was the
Georgetown Social Club and Senator Cooper's wife started people read
about this. It's never been in a book before mine,
this new one. And if you want me to send
you a copy, I will. It's fascinating because all the
people who were anything in Washington went to these meetings
they had at Senator Cooper's wife's house. That's interesting, and
you know anybody who was anybody. So Dorothy was invited
because even though she lived in New York City, she
was a big shot. And Morris Wolfe said, well, Mark,
you can imagine. I'm sure you get shocked by things
at times. I remember an aha moment. He said, I
sat right next to Dorothy Cogallan for dinner. Oh perfect,
And I said you did. He said yes, And he
said it was most interesting because I knew quite a
bit about her, but I didn't know how good an
investigative reporter she was. And still she started interviewing me.
And he said, and this is a quote, she was
a bright light bulb. She was so smart, and she
would you know, interrogate me in some ways, but do
it in a way that I wanted to tell her
about things, and I did. I explained to her a
lot of things, especially about the corruption at the War
and Commission. How Jay Edgar Hoover and LBJ. Ramrodded the
other members to come up with the to agree to
the Oswald alone conclusion. How the Chief Justice Supreme Court said,
you know, we don't go we don't need to go
too far into this. Let's just satisfy the public. It
was kind of political theater in some ways, was what
that was all about. And unfortunately then they issued their report,
and everybody in the world, including me when I was younger,
thought that was the gospel because we trusted the government
back then. We didn't ask questions and everything. And that's
going to be one of the things I'll talk about
toward the end of our conversation about people have to
question the government, especially in sign but they didn't back then,
and Dorothy Kilgowen was the only one that did. So
we go ahead then and with Dorothy because she made
her big mistake, just like Marland said, you know that
we're I'm going to go to the media's she made
an agreement, a contract with Random House to write a book,
a Tell Our book about the assassination. Naming name means
Marcello Hoover others, and that word got out obviously to
those guys that that was happening. And so she did that.
And then what's most important about being Dallas. She's the
only reporter out of four hundred and you stop me
if you have any questions, please, But there's only reporter
out of four hundred at the Jack Ruby trial to
interview Jack Ruby. What's the connection there? And why did
she get to do that? Because another one of these
facts that I found by doing my research, especially about
what was going on in the Dallas at the time,
Jack Ruby had a carousel club and they played they
played What's My Line every Sunday night.
Speaker 2: Oh perfect.
Speaker 3: So she amored with Dorothy Kilgallan. Thought she was, you know,
a person of truth and so on and so forth.
So when she waltzes up to the railing at the
Jack Ruby trial, and this is all in the book,
he goes like this, you know, come on over. So
she talked to him and interviewed him three times.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing, And.
Speaker 3: What that we do not know by the way, I'm
going to talk about her death in a little bit.
We do not know exactly what he told her why
because the moment she died in nineteen sixty five, under
mysterious circumstances, there was a raid of her apartment. I
was going to ask you about that combination of the
FBI and the mafia, including Marcelo, and they stole all
of her records and just investigation records and all jfkre
JFK investigation records and her manuscript.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask because what happened to all
that information? Because if she has all this information, it
had to go somewhere. So I was curious about that.
Speaker 3: I've tried to find it everywhere. I try to find
an FBI files, National Archives Archive, all these kind in places.
None we can't find it. I'm going to keep after it.
So anyway, she makes that mistake, But where does she go?
We don't know what he said, but where does she go?
She goes to New Orleans. Now, Carlos Marcelo had been
had a and a friend of mafioso in New York
named Frank Costello, who Dorothy knew. By the way, she
knew some of the mafioso in New York City. In fact,
she used to have a lunch with he and some
of the other boombas. I guess you could call him
or whatever. It's kind of derogatory. I shouldn't say that.
In the East Village there's a restaurant called PJ. Clarks,
I think that's where it is. And in fact, when
I went back for a ceremony about Dorothy I'm going
to talk to you about in a minute, I sat
right near where she was on the last night of
her life. So she knew Costello. He set up Carlos
Marcelo in New Orleans for his gambling, for the prostitutes,
for the killings. He was a very very dangerous man,
as I have proven the in the in the new
book and before. You can't mess around with those guys.
If we have time, and I'll tell you a personal
story of mine, when I was working with Good Morning
America and I interviewed the lawyer for one of the
mafios and found out what happens to somebody when they
open their mouth and shouldn't. So she did that. She
went to New Orleans and she investigated, and she went
to Pete Marcello, who was Marcello's brother's restaurant. She talked
to people there about Marcello. She took one of her
hairdresser's named Mark Sinclair, who will come into view here
because he's the one who found her body on November eighth,
nineteen sixty five. She took him with her to do
her hair and stuff like that, you know, and all
at once he got a phone call from a payphone
in downtown New Orleans. She said, you go back to
New York City. You don't tell anybody you were here,
and you don't ask any more questions about what I
was doing.
Speaker 2: Wow, so she knew.
Speaker 3: Goes back to New York City and she should have
kept her mouth shut, But she starts telling her lawyer,
which gets out who because he represented a couple of
the mafia people. I'm going to crack the case wide open.
I know what happened with the president and it was
not Oswald alone. I am able to go ahead and
put all the pieces together as to what happened with
regard to Marcello. And uh she she also uh then
uh showed the the danger she was in. She told
Mark Sinclair, if the wrong people know about what I
know about the JFT assassination. It will cost me my life.
I'm afraid for my life and my family. I bought
a gun. I'm getting death threat. About less than a
month later, she's dead. Wow, and under these mysterious circumstances.
See again, I didn't know anything about Dorothy Kilgallen. I
had to research her when she died. And we're gonna
you're gonna hear the fact there was no investigation of
her death. The official verdict was supposedly overdose of drugs,
circumstances undetermined, whatever the hell that meant?
Speaker 2: Yeah, any sense?
Speaker 3: No? So anyway, she tells them that, and then you know,
not too long later, she's dead. Mark Sinclair walks into
her townhouse on East sixty eighth Street and ends up
going upstairs to where she was, where she normally dressed,
and she's not there, And so he goes into the
bedroom and she is found on a bed she never
slept in, wearing clothes like she's going on a date.
She's got her eyelashes, her hair piece, and her makeup on.
There is a book on her lap upside down. The
air conditioner is on, even though it's freezing outside. And
he goes over. And it always gets me when I
hear this, because I have such respect for this woman.
She should have never been killed. He goes over and
touches her, and you know, she's dead. So he tells
the butler and asks him to get a hold of
the authorities. But for whatever reason, we're not exactly shere,
I entered the butler interviewed the butler's daughter. He waited
a while. I think he was bewrought with the fact
that that's the right word, be wrought with the fact
that she was dead. So finally the authorities come in
the afternoon after this raid. It takes all of her
documentation and all of her files and everything else.
Speaker 2: While she's dead in the room, they come in and
take all the information. Yeah, this is that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no investigation of any kind. They send a first
year detective there. He glances at the table by the
bed and he sees an empty second all bottle and
he says, basically, oh my god, it's just another celebrity
who's a druggie. So the medical Examiner's office at the
time goes ahead and they supposedly are which is interesting
by the way, they conducted an autopsy.
Speaker 2: Okay, then they would know Hence.
Speaker 3: Lawyer, you don't conduct an autopsy unless you think something's wrong.
But they're going to go ahead and do that, and
they come back with that stupid verdict of overdose of
drugs circumstances undetermined. And unfortunately then they feed that information
to the media and that's when Dorothy Kilgallen vanished her
name and everything vanished from the face of the earth.
That's why I didn't know anything about her when I
started investigating what eight or nine years ago, because they
just all that was cut off. Now I have sense,
and in the new book, people will be fascinated with this.
I interviewed three or four people who worked at the
Medical Examiner's office, and what they told me is frightening.
One person, a former a deputy sheriff in an accounting
adjoining county who worked at the Medical Examiner's office at
the Times, told me that listen, it's not like mobster
Joe Banano came into the office every day, but all
of those working there were from Sicily. Well Marcello, yeah,
so he told me also about the all the mix
ups with identifying bodies and everything else. Fortunately, one of
them was doctor Charles Umberger, who was at the at
the autopsy and around there and two years later he
had kept Dorothy's bodily bodily fluids to do a new
analysis at some point, but he had to wait because
he was scared that the mafia might come after him.
So he conducted a a a you know, a another
account of looking at those looking at those body of
balley fluids. In the autopsy, it says she died of
one particular barbituate second hall which are sleeping pills. Okay,
he found tulanol and phena barbital in her stomach. He
found phena barbital uh remnants on a glass right next
to the bed. And he obviously knew that there was
more to her death than because I had a pharmacologist
go ahead and analyze what it would be like to
have those three barbituates in her system and he said, basically,
it's murder. Yeah, she would die from those. So that's
information that people will enjoy in the book as far
as what happened to her, And there's new there's no
interviews of these people at the Emmy office. Now you
just have to stop and think again. If you are
a member of the mafia. And you want to have
someone killed, you certainly don't do it yourself. You need
someone else to do it. You need these Patsy's. It
was Oswald with the jfk assassination and Jack Ruby as well,
in my opinion, and Dorothy had some feelings towards him
being used. She met him at the Jack Ruby trials,
I said, and all that. So you've got Oswald and
Jack Ruby there at the thing. So then what do
we look at with regard to what happened to Dorothy. Well,
she had fallen in love with Her marriage was a strange.
Her husband was an alcoholic and a playmaker with the women.
So she had fallen in love with a Midwestern journalist
named Ron Kataki and he latched on to her. He
was twenty years younger. They had a love affair, but
she made a huge mistake with him because she trusted
him and she shared with him her jfk assassination evidence.
And we find out in the new book, and readers
will find out that he had some of the same
problems that Sir Hans sir Han had. He was a
degenerate gambler. He had a lot of gambling debts, he
was easily compromised. He had known a couple of the
mafioso who knew Marcello, and I've been able to prove
in the book that he is the one that went
ahead and set up Dorothy Kilgown for her death because
the night before they met, well the night actually of
the death, they met at a hotel near her home,
and she confronted him with leaking her material to what
she called the wrong people. So he had the motive
to save himself. And people who read the book will will,
I think, be interested in how that goes forward, because
now you've got a patsy with JFK's death, and you've
got a patsy in my opinion with regard to Ron pattacking. Now,
they didn't kill him, They just scared the hell out
of my opinion, to keep his mouth shut, and he did.
The kicker in there is that there's a poem by
Robert by Pataki that's in the book, and it basically
talks about exactly how Dorothy Kilgown would have been killed
by being poisoned. It has a bartender, it talks about
poisoning herb a vodka and by antonic drink, which is
exactly what she drank. It's all the facts that only
somebody who orchestrated the death would know. Now. I interviewed
Ron Pattack he two or three times, wow, and I
was convinced that he was the one who orchestrated her death.
He kept lying about things he didn't know about that
he wasn't there, he wasn't in New York, and all
that proved all of that wrong. And I finally said
to him, Ron, listen, I see that you have gone
to seminary, and I think it's because you have guilt
about ending Dorothy Kilgallan, who loved you by the way
her death. And there was a long pause, and I said,
I want you to tell me what happened, so that
people know what happened. I won't say anything about this
until you're dead, but I want you to tell me.
And he went ahead and he started to talk about it,
and then he stumbled a little bit, and then he
hung up. I'm so so scared of such regret that
I did not get all of that on tape or
do something with it or whatever. But I didn't, and
I'm sorry that I couldn't. So that's Dorothy Kilgallen and
her situation. So I always say this to my wife
after I write one of these books and that's it,
and she says, oh, yeah, sure, because she knows than
that maybe with you. Robert Kennedy's death had always intrigued me.
I could never believe, just as I never believed about Oswald,
that he could possibly have done this alone. So again,
I am not the smartest guy in the world, and
I admit that I nearly flunked out of Purdue University.
It took me five and a half years to get
through the law school. You know, I'm not the smartest guy,
but I am a plotter and I will go after
things and do everything I can. So at some point
about a year ago, I decided, yeah, I'm going to
look into Robert Kennedy's death. Am I why? I started laughing,
And so I went ahead. And what can I do?
I know Marcello has the strongest motive to have eliminated
Robert Kennedy, because why he cannot let Robert Kennedy become
president because he knows and I've been proved. I proved
this through some other evidence that the first thing Robert
Kennedy will do is come after Marcello because.
Speaker 2: He has a pretty good chance of being president.
Speaker 3: And we'll talk about that in just a minute, okay.
And so he knows that Bobby Kennedy is going to
come after him because he knows that Marcello set up
the assassination of JFK. So how is he going to
do something with this? Uh? He knows that that Bobby
Kennedy has just won the California primary and so now
he's really got some problems. But even before that, he
had to try to figure out a way to get
into the whole situation. And he learns about Sir Hans
Sir Han from again gangster named Mickey Cohen, who will
go back for just a minute, Los Angeles gangster represented
by Melvin Belli. Mm hmm. So there's a connection there, yep.
So he starts to look into who can who can
who how can he get his connection out to Los Angeles.
He looks into this Mickey Cohen who is who is
Belli's client and finds out that he knew this basically
that Mickey Cohen was in charge of the Underworld rackits
and everything in Southern California, including the race tracks Perfect
Santa Anita, Hollywood Park and all of that. So at
that time, Mickey Cohen is in prison, but as you know,
many times those people can use their contacts outside. So
he starts to ask about what Cohen knows, and they
find out about a man who is work who had
worked at Santa I Need a Park Tony Racetrack and
his name is Sir Hans Sir Han. So what happens
then is that I was able to find this video
tape that is in the book. I mean, there's no
and we're going to talk about Carlos Marcello's confession in
a little bit, but I found this a video on
YouTube that's been up there for four years that nobody
else seemed to think meant anything, and it is an
account by a paddock captain at Santa I Need a
racetrack just south of Los Angeles and what this gentleman says,
and I'll kind of summarize it, but first I want
to give the credibility of this paddock captain. He was
a hero because he had been working at Santa I
Need a Racetrack for years. But one day in I
think it was the summer of sixty seven, he's in
the paddock area and one of the horses gets loose,
and there is a little girl five years old standing there,
and the horse goes toward her. And this man puts
himself in front of the horse and saves this little
girl's life. It breaks every bone in his body. Now
he has all these surgeries for a year. That's this man.
And so I looked into this and this man, then
John Shears, his name went ahead, and I was able
to find in this video that he worked there all
those years. And then in the summer of nineteen sixty eight,
a young man, I think it was in the sixty
seven or first part of sixty eight, a young man
comes into the racetrack and comes back to the paddock
area and says to this man John, I need a job.
And John says, well, all we have is a hot walker,
which means you walk the horses after the races. It
pays one hundred dollars two hundred dollars a month, which
is nothing back there then even and the guy says,
I'll take it. That was Sir Hans, Sir Han. So
John Sheer then tells the story. He worked there for
quite a while. He was rather meek. He was rather,
he could easily be influenced. He had some ill feelings
towards Robert Kennedy because he was Palestinian and so on
and so forth in the Israeli thing, and we'll get
into how that fits into everything. But he was a
guy who could be easily manipulated. That was what John
Shear says. And people can make up their own mind
when they watched the video in the book. So he says,
all right, well, he's there for a while, and he
finally leaves, and just right before Robert Kennedy is killed
in June of nineteen sixty eight, he and his wife
were going to Hollywood Park and they see Sir Hans
Sir Han walking up some steps and there's two big
guys on either side of him, looking like they're kind
of controlling him. He called them hoodlums, and he said,
I remember that they had been thrown out of Hollywood,
thrown out of Santa Nita Racetrack. And the other thing
he said is he's dressed in a brand new suit,
he has money, and the man is unemployed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was making two hundred dollars a month.
Speaker 3: So he's very quizzical about that. And then what happens
is the day that Robert Kennedy, you know, by the way,
I've been given the explanation that Sir Han had somehow
or another gone ahead and had had some money from
a medical settlement or something like that. But these are
four Crisp one hundred dollars bills that they find in
his pocket when he's arrested. And I will tell you,
to this day, nobody has ever been able to explain
how that money was there or about these two hudlums.
So Bobby Kennedy dies and John Sheer and his wife
are watching La television and it's and there's a mugshot.
It's in the book of Sir Han. Do you know
this man? Because they didn't, or at least they said
they didn't. He's the FBI and the l APD. So
his wife makes him call the authorities at Hollywood Park,
which is nearby Santa Nita Racetrack, and he tells him
their story, his story, believing the FBI and the and
the LAPD will go ahead and get in touch with him.
He asked them to get in touch, gives them a
phone number and everything. They never do. They never contact
him once and the kicker to that, which again leads
us back to possible involvement by Marcelo Mafia. Whatever. Yeah,
he says on that tape. For the next year, every
time my wife and I picked up the phone, we
heard a click and we knew our phones were being tapped,
that somebody was listening in because they thought that we
might know more about the whole Sirhan thing, you know
an that. So then the thing that it really upset me,
because I'm a criminal former defense lawyer from a defense lawyer,
is the fact that on purpose, in my opinion, one
of the lawyers for first lawyers for Sir Hans sir
Han represented a mafioso called Johnny Roselle m a is
a compatriot of Marcello. And one of the things that
happened with that lawyer and other ones was they just
threw him to the wolves. He said he couldn't remember
what happened. One time he said he thought, you know,
he'd been hypnotized. I mean, there was all this crazy stuff.
At one point he wanted to plead guilty and the
judge wouldn't take care of it. I mean, here's this
little man being used abusive power by these people. And
so in the middle of the trial, one of his
lawyers stands up, well, you know, our client is guilty
of killing Robert Kennedy.
Speaker 2: Imagine that Wait, okay, okay. As a lawyer, though, is
that like a normal thing, would you just stand up
and be like, oh, yeah, I mean, there was.
Speaker 3: No way that he wasn't going to be convicted, and
he was. He was pronounced kill him with the death penal.
Fortunately California didn't have the death penalty and so that
didn't happen. But if you go on through that, what's
fascinating about the whole Robert Kennedy situation is that when
he was shot, you know, on that evening in June,
you know, there there wasn't any proper investigation, no proper
investigation in JFK's death, Dorothy Kilgallon's death, and and now
in Robert Kennedy's death.
Speaker 2: So do the authorities know that it was all set up? No?
Speaker 3: Oh no, I just like they think they did, but
they didn't. JEdgar Hoover knew about Oswald not being alone
and Ruby and and Hoover knew about Dorothy kill Gallan,
that there was a was a plot to kill her.
And the same thing with Robert Kennedy. But you see,
those those men who abused power, they cannot let that happen.
They cannot let uh, you know, the American public know
what happened. And I'm going to tell you a little
while how unfortunately we're having a recurrence of that today
with a government body that supposed was supposed to look
into these assassinations and hasn't done.
Speaker 2: So I have a question about Hoover really quick, because,
like I in my research, I found that like LBJ
had some like he wanted to be president, right, so
that makes sense why he would be involved in JFK's death.
But why Hoover, Why was he so involved with all
these Why was he like trying to cover everything up?
Speaker 3: A smart person, good question, because Jaegar Hoover, if if
there are any plots I'm gonna use I'm gonna use
your C word plots to kill these three people, then
there is gonna be some real problems with that because
the FBI will be blamed for not stopping them, especially
with regard to JFK.
Speaker 2: Okay, he was the director of the FBI at the time, right.
Speaker 3: And so what does he do the moment JFK dies,
he has his his his staff and send out a
communicat it's Oswald alone, It's Oswald alone. It is Oswald alone, Okay,
and he and he and he goes ahead. And also
the thing that really made a difference that I've proven
in the books and a little more in the new one,
is that he basically has his agent steal John F.
Kennedy's body. The autopsy of John F. Kennedy should have been.
Speaker 2: In Dallas, yeah, right away.
Speaker 3: Parkland Hospital, all right. And what we would find out
people will find out in the book that if those autops,
if that autopsy would have been done in Parkland. There's
a great video, very informative video the Parkland Parkland doctors
on YouTube where they discuss what happened and each one
of them when they were looking at the wounds to
JFK said the shots came from the front.
Speaker 2: Which doesn't work if Oswald was the murderer.
Speaker 3: And I don't want to forget to talk about the
shots that killed the Robert Kennedy because Sir hansor Han
was in front of Bobby Kennedy. The shots that killed
him are in the back and in the neck. Now
people have said, well, he might have turned his head.
Come on, you just like point. Let's go back to
Hoover though. Okay, so he gets rid of the body
at sent East and doctor Sarah Weck, who is I
believe the most the most formidable forensic scientists who ever lived. Unfortunately,
God love him, he died about a year ago. Uh
he he gave me an account out of sixty thousand
autopsies he conducted during his longevity with being a forensic
expert and being in the media and everything, the jfk
assassination autopsy is the worst one he ever saw because
they went along, they milt, these military, uneducated military doctors
went ahead and followed what they had to do to
please Jag your Hoover. So, in my opinion, every time
I go to Washington, d C. And I don't go
there much anymore, and I see that the LB excuse me,
the Jagger Hoover a federal building where the FBI is,
I want to throw up. I mean, he was one
of the worst people that ever lived because of him
distorting histories with regard to all three of these deaths.
Speaker 2: For sure, Oh absolutely, But okay, I have a couple
more questions about that because nobody ever suspect I mean,
not never. But the suspicion wasn't on the FBI. It
was on the CIA the whole time.
Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't I wouldn't agree completely with that. I
don't think so, because he really looked at the at
Oswald alone. Yeah, that was his that was his way
of stopping anything that was going on. And so I'm
not so sure. But I'm going to mention this. I
usually mention at the end of the interview, but I'm
mentioning it right now. What happened here and how is
this relevant? All these things happened sixty years ago? Okay,
I'm going to talk about Dorothy's ceremony in New York
City recently that I went to honoring her. But sixty
years ago, So people asked me, although I do hear
from a lot of young people, Okay, why is this relevant?
It's relevant because nobody asked questions back then. We basically
took it as gospel what the government was telling us.
Jaeger Hoover must be telling us the truth about that,
about Dorothy's death, about Robert Kennedy. They didn't ask the questions.
And I say to people, the relevance is for people
who are watching my presentations or read the book. You
have to ask questions these days, especially in this environment. Yeah,
and you can't. If you don't, then you've got nothing
to gripe about. And if you don't vote, you've got
nothing to grip about. And that's the relevance of all
of this, because the only one person that spoke up
about JFK's assassination was Dorothy Kilgallen, and she should have
been at the Warren Commission testifying they wouldn't let her.
There's some other evidence that she knew about that at
least she and she tried to give it to them.
They didn't want it. I've had that happen with authors
of books through the years who want nothing to do
with my research because they are still Oswald alone propent opponents,
and it's unfortunate. And that's what I'm going to talk
about in a little bit. With his task force that
was the convene to look into the assassinations in Dorothy's death,
and the same thing occurred. So I hear what you're
saying about Oswald, I mean about j Edgar Hoover. But
for the most part, he never looked at the mafia
for sure. He never looked at the CIA at that time.
He never looked at the Cubans, he never looked at
anything else, you know, the industrial complex, you know, and
he just wanted to take it was all Oswald alone.
And if you think about it, we look at that
as absolutely ludicrous that he could have set up everything
like this. But back then, hey, the government's telling us
the truth, and so we need to look no further
sad the truth.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So with regard to back to Bobby Kennedy's death, there's
no investigation whatsoever. And yet I kept wondering about it.
So I was able then to connect Marcello in with
Sir Hans, Sir Hanuh. And so what I then did
it was a look at what was Robert Kennedy's assessment
of what happened to his father. His father, by the way,
the moment that j Edgar Hoover called him and said,
your brother is dead. The JFK the president, Bobby Kennedy
said to several of his closest associates at the Justice Department,
it's the guy from New Orleans.
Speaker 2: It's knew right away.
Speaker 3: He knew for sure. Of course he did, because he
knew that that that you know, they double crossed the mafia,
including Marcello's Central American and everything. So he knew that.
So Bobby Kennedy Junior, then you know, went along with
that conclusion for years, and then all at once I
saw him on some interviews saying no, no, no, it
was the CIA, and I have all of this evidence
to prove it and everything with this course providing any
of that evidence. Because that was okay. So you know,
that's what happened there with RFK Junior. But what interested
me most was that through the years, I think I
have it right here because I wrote a letter to RFK.
It was delivered to him on Monday. I'll tell you
about that in a minute. Through the years, Robert Kennedy
Junior as said on occasion, let me find it here.
There are too many bullets that were fired. You can't
fire thirteen shots out of an eight shotgun, because Sir
Han did have a gun and shot, but he shot
at the ceiling and so on and so forth. That way,
I spent three hours visiting Sir Han in prison late
last year. This was in twenty seventeen. After researching my
father's assassination, for months. I got to a place where
I had to see Sir Han. I went there because
I was curious and disturbed what I had seen in
the evidence. I've been a strong advocate for the release
of Sir Han b Sir Hans since I learned of
the evidence that wasn't presented at trial. After years of
carol investigation, I arrived at the conviction that the story
of my father's murder is not as cut and dried
as portrayed at trial. And then there's a book written
by Lisa Peace, who is a very almost a confident
of Robert Kennedy Junior. She wrote a book, A Lie
Too Big to Fail about Sir Han visiting Sir Han
or Bobby Kennedy visiting Sir Han in the company of
Sir Han's attorney. Bobby hugged Sir Han and told him
he knew he hadn't killed his father, and then he
considered Sir Han as much a victim as his father.
Bobby told me, the author said, he told me he's
a sweet man. Do you imagine he's a sweet man.
And Bobby took the time to learn the truth and
found what he found out moved him to action and
rightfully so. And one more, I am disturbed that the
wrong person might have been convicted of killing my father.
He was the chief law enforcement officer in this country.
I think it would have disturbed him if somebody was
put in prison for a crime they didn't commit. So
in twenty twenty one, maybe you remember reading this, Robert
Kennedy Junior went to the Parole Board of California. He
tried to persuade them to get a release, a parole
for a Sir Hansor Han, and that was successful. It
was announced that Sir hansor Han, after nearly sixty years
in prison for a crime I don't believe he committed.
And we'll talk about it a bit more if you want,
at eighty years old, had served enough time in prison
and would be released. And then we had our political
governor Gavin Newsom. He never wanted that to be on
his resume that he went ahead and released what most
people believed was Robert Kennedy's assassination and so he revoked
that parole.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: It's stressful. Absolutely, So that's where it stood. And then
I went ahead and I wrote this book. And the
more I wrote it the more incensed I became, became
that he came because, in my opinion, based on all
of the new evidence, there's new ballistic evidence in there,
there's John Shear's account, there's all of this other you know,
he wasn't represented as he should have been. Everything. I
decided I was going to do something about it. And
this past Monday, I sent a letter to Robert Kennedy
Junior in Washington, d C. It was delivered, and I
asked him to go ahead and look into all the evidence.
I sent him the letter with all my evidence and
everything else like that. Pointed him to that, and I said,
you know, it's time for you to take some action here,
because I know you believe that sir Han was not
accountable for your father's death. I hope that you will
go ahead and you will take to the evidence, and
you will go to the President of the United States
and you will ask him to pardon Sir Hans sir Han,
or in the least at least to give him a
new trial, releasing whatever, commute the sentence, whatever it is.
That way, now, I knew that was a long shot,
and I know it's a long shot. Yeah, because ripa
Junior's got a lot of other problems to deal with
as a member of the cabinet, but you got to
try things at times. And I'm not violate, and I
believe that I wanted to do that. Now somebody has
pointed out and this is the easy way out, in
my opinion, the President of the United States cannot parole
I cannot pardon Sir hansor Han because Sir Hans Sir
Han did not commit a federal crime. Well listen, wait
a second. United States has been pardoning everybody but his
sister for anything that he wants to pardon him for
that the people who were involved in the January sixth,
the you know, assault on the cap it doesn't matter.
So if Robert Kennedy goes to the President of the
United States and I don't know if I'll hear from
him or now, I hope I will, but I'll keep
pressing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be cool.
Speaker 3: I've got some friends who are going to try to
do that too. And he goes to President of the
United States and says, I want this man parole. It
will happen in an instant. M hm. So that's what
I'm trying to do. I don't know if it'll be successful.
Speaker 2: So I have a question about Star and Strum, So
like why would he be the patsy? Like did the
mafia end up like taking care of his debts? Did
they take care of his family? Like why would he
give up the rest of his life to be in
prison to be the patsy for this?
Speaker 3: If like for what excellent questions? You're very very perceptive.
I think two or three things. One they could have
threatened him, for sure, okay. Second, they could give him money.
Speaker 2: Which is that way That wouldn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: It was the gambling, the gambling debts, because you go
back to Ron Pataki, who I didn't mention, I guess
was involved in Dorothy's desk. He had gambling debts as well. See,
these people are perfect subjects to be And also look
at what John Sheer said, easily manipulated. They also knew
that he didn't care for Bobby Kennedy because of some
things with Israel and stuff. So he's in a situation
where I think he was easily recruited, I think is
the word. And unfortunately it just swelled and I think
they told him that you know, you can go to
the hotel. Oh, oh, one more thing, guysch Mark, don't
leave this out. This is so important. Sorry, and then
I'll get back to your question or tell me if
I haven't answered it. Mickey Cohen, Yeah, Marcelo's buddy in
Los Angeles. I found a book he wrote and I
corroborated with other evidence. He ended up handling all the
gambling in Los Angeles, including at the Ambassador Hotel where
Bobby Kennedy was shot. And he says in the book,
I got to know how everything worked at the hotel,
where things were and so on and so forth. And
I just found I don't think I have the document.
I just found an FBI document that was exposed by
the New York Times in nineteen sixty five where an
FBI agent talked about the fact there are many holes
in the Sir Hans sir Han case. We should have
looked more into it, and so on and so forth.
And one of the things he said is we should
have looked into Mickey Cohen Cohen knowing exactly where Robert
Kennedy would be when he was shot after he made
his speech, and that why was Sir Hans sir Han
in the kitchen at that point, it looks like he
was told to be there. So all of that fits together.
You see in the ability to go ahead if you
look at these three desks in context of each other. Yeah,
And I just want to unless did that answer your question?
Speaker 2: I think that I kind of got the answer. I
think that what makes the most sense to me in
my head is that he would They would either be like, Okay,
you have all these gambling debts. You can either die
or you can just be a passy for us and
go to prison. Like that makes sense.
Speaker 3: And remember the two hoodlums that are with him when
he's going to Hollywood Park. You know, I think it
may have been threats to him or whatever. But Dorothy
Killgallen is the lynch pin to the three deaths. She's
in the middle, okay and sixty five and everything. And
I have fought to get an investigation of her death
for several years. I've come really close with the district.
At first the district previous district attorney in New York City,
he was going to do it, and then I went
to I met with him, I met with the Chief
of police in New York City, shook my hand. We're
going to do it. They never did. Of course, I
will keep trying to get her an investigation. But she
is the lynch pin between all of this and Dorothy,
as I said, when she died, almost disappeared from the
face of the earth. And I'm very proud of the
fact that through my books, the best seller of The
Reporter Who Knew Too Much, Denialogistice, the other books, that
she kind of came back to life and people got
to know about her more. Yes, in the fact a
point where now, what's my line? Reruns eighty of them
or up on a prime video. She's gotten a lot
of her exposure back. But about a month ago, a
city councilman in New York City who had tried to
help me get an investigation of Dorothy's death, sent me
a text, mark, you need to come back to New
York City on November eighth, the sixtieth anniversary of Dorothy's death,
because we are going to co name a street after
Dorothy Killgallant. Oh that's nice, and I said, that is
an incredible tribute. Yeah, probably started crying at that point.
I was so happy. So that is what happened, And
this is the flyer that they sent out. But I'll
read from it, but this is at East sixty eighth
Street and Park Avenue. Dorothy lived on sixty eighth Street.
I stood right in front of the building where she
lift forty five East sixty eighth Street on November eighth
of this year, and I gave a talk and this
the councilman gave a talk, and a couple people who
knew Dorothy gave a talk, and basically what they said
about here her is join us as we honor the
extraordinary legacy of Dorothy Kilgallen, pioneering journalist, author, and fearless
voice for the truth. Dorothy's groundbreaking career in print and
television broke barriers for women in media, and her commitment
to investigating reporting made a lasting impact on American journalism.
And then they had a program that they gave out
which talked about the fact that she may have been
the first journalist to ever combine radio, television and print,
which the predecet to what we have now. Yeah, and
all of that. So we had that ceremony that the
people who read the book that we'll see that in there.
They can go to YouTube. There's some video of that happening.
But it was an incredible, you know, a moment for
me and for Dorothy, who I believe was smiling that
day because it validated this woman who went ahead and
in fact gave up her life for trying to solve
the JFK assassination for sure. And when people ask me
why is she the one that should be most read about,
listened to and everything, I say, well, she's the most credible,
and you know why her enemies killed her.
Speaker 2: That's how you know she's on the right track.
Speaker 3: That's exactly so. That was Dorothy. So I hope that
if you get a chance. I know you're very very busy,
but look at that part at least to the book
about Dorothy, because it's very inspiring. Yeah, and uh, you
know she she just would not say no early on
in her life and then all the way to the
day she died.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. That's yeah, that's it. I feel like I'm
very inspired by her. I don't know, I know only
her story from what you've told me, but I really
want to look into her more. And I actually now
I want to do a whole episode on her, just
because I find that I learned best when I do
a full episode on somebody because I've done all the
research into it now, So yeah, I'm gonna add her
to my list for sure.
Speaker 3: You get a chance, go to the kill Scoop the
Dorothy kilgallonstory dot org. That link is in the in
the book with the Dorothy kilgallonstory dot org. It's all
about Dorothy.
Speaker 2: And I'll link that in the show notes too. That
way anybody that's listening can easily clue on that. And
I'll link the Markshaw books dot com as well.
Speaker 3: That would be fine. I'd appreciate it very much. But yeah,
I think once you read some of the material and
and you see the videos with Dorothy and all of that,
you know, like you, I'm going to say this because
I did look up a little bit about you. You're
a woman of the truth and that's exactly what she was.
And I don't know if you feel like at times
that you put yourself at risk by some of the
people who watch your broadcasts. But that's part of the deal,
you know, That's what I do. I get terrible emails
from people about leave the Kennedys alone, Mark you know,
and yet that's part of the job, as we know. Right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, one I'm sure is I get lots of things,
I just don't read them, like people leave nasty comments
or reviews, and I just don't read all that good.
Speaker 3: Good Mark.
Speaker 2: Do you have anything else that you feel like I
didn't ask that, I should have asked about the Kennedy's,
about Dorothy, about anything.
Speaker 3: No. I'm very impressed by you. I really am. Thank you,
I really am. And I'll tell the people at the
PR firm. And in fact, I don't know if you
have a boss, but if you do, I like to
write letters to people thanking them for what a professional
job you did and how great you were with your
questions and all of that. But apparently you must be
your own boss.
Speaker 2: I am my own boss.
Speaker 3: Rush. I am by you, so thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. And until next week, my friends, Stay
Skeptical and we will see you all then. Hey, friends.
The rabbit Hole is an independent podcast written, hosted, and
produced by me Danny Mercy. Special thanks to Lindsey for
research and writing. If you love the podcast, please leave
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