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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekinganas show.

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He just had me on his show, so Charlie Yankee,

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I asked him to come on. But I think this

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is going to be multiple episodes and I'm really excited.

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How are you doing, Tyler great?

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Speaker 2: By the way, I trolled you into putting libertarian in

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your podcast title in a positive way, so I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: No problem at all. It's fine.

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Speaker 2: I'm kidding.

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Speaker 1: I know that you're I know that you live in

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the real world. You're one of the you you still

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live in the real world, so.

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Speaker 2: You keep reminding me of what the real world is.

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So I appreciate that. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Cool. We're gonna talk about We're gonna probably do a

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few episodes on the Leo Frank trial, if everybody's up

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for that. Let's start with this. Why do you think

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you're what do you what special? What's special powerity you

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have that you can really talk about the Leo Frank

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trial and you think you can that some other people can't.

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Speaker 2: Well, as you heard, my name's German, So no, that's

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not a reason. Well, I'm an attorney, and by the way,

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that doesn't necessarily do anything. But if you if you

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went to law school correctly, what they try to teach

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you is to how to think like an attorney, and

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some of that is being skeptical and maybe not so

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cynical and then just not taking everything at face value

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and what's underneath. So great question as to well what

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makes me is then I'm very skeptical on things as

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an example, and people may hate me for this, but

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things come up and we just love to take whatever

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our our party's service. Kill Dozer is a great example.

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This is people love to talk about the guy that

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killed those I think is in Granby, Colorado, goes out

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kills people with his big thing because he's pushed up

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against the state. Did you kill anybody he tried to? Yeah? Good,

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thank you and this is important right, which is but

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I think he was just mentally deranged. He said he

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was doing what God told him to. So having a

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spokesman for your cause, be careful with that. Koppernick's another

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one where he has you know, castro on his shirt

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and he's talking about police state abuse. Well, that doesn't

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really work, So you don't have to overdo it. You

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can pick right people that help represent your causes. And

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then if you don't play into the propaganda side. It's

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helpful as well. So I think I'm good about trying

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to see problems areas and then using the right people

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for the right reasons. And this is a prime example,

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the Leo Frank issue case, where they took a despicable person,

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they tried to hold him upon a pedestal, and then

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to push an agenda.

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Speaker 1: All right, so yeah, let's let's get into it. Give

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us a little bit of background on, well what happened?

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Why did why did the police arrest Leo Frank?

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Speaker 2: Leo Frank, Leo Frank, the Jewish man from New York, Brooklyn.

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He was twenty nine years old. He had moved down

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to Atlanta, down in the South. He was actually born

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in Texas. When he was three months old, they moved

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to New York. His grandfather was a Confederate slaveholder, so

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just keep that in mind. So he's down he runs

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this pencil factory, it's called the National Pencil Factory. MPC

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might be something involved in there, So you make the

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joke there. I can't quite tie it in, but it

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feels like it. And I'll just call MPC from now

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on with that. So he's the supervisor down there and

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a girl gets married. It's Confederate Day. It's like the

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Memorial Day for the South. It's a Saturday round noon

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the stroke. I don't get into too much detail, but

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why was he arrested is the strolls murdered and they

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found her in the factory. And there's only a few

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suspects that can be and he's one of them that

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the police think that he may be involved.

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Speaker 1: So he was at factory on a Saturday, which tells

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me that he probably wasn't a practicing.

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Speaker 2: Jew exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: No, he was the president of the Bena Brith, like

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the secret society, not secret, but it's a Jewish community

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down and he was the president at twenty nine. Okay,

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he was a reform Jew. He had a rabbi, Rabbi Marxi,

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believe in anything, so exactly exactly, And by the way,

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that's that's a great thought, because that's what I thought too.

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I'm like, he's working on a Saturday. He always works

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on a Saturday. That's a problem, but not for him,

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I guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I guess one of the things that a

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lot of people don't realize is and as someone who

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lived in Atlanta for seventeen years. It's always had a

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very large Jewish There's been a large Jewish population there

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for a long time. I remember living out in Conus,

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which is outside of Atlanta to the east. One town

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over is Covington, And there's this long road called Salem Road.

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Anyone who's driven across I twenty maybe you've noticed it.

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Salem Road is that whole area. There's miles upon miles,

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I mean, just thousands of acres that was owned by

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someone named Salem who was Jewish and way back in

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the day. And like you said, Leo frank hat an

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uncle who was a slave owner in this So when

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people start looking at like when they start having the

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opinion that and this is what I've what I've seen

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over and over again, and E. Michael Jones talked about

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this on the episode we did together. When people have

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the opinion that in nineteen thirteen the Klan or pretty

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much anyone else down there, there was this large antisemitic

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kind of geist where it was just who they were,

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completely false, completely false.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, there's so many strings you can

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pull on this, I believe. So there's three phases of

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the Ku Klux Klan. Okay, we don't necessarily need to

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get into all of it. But the more you know,

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people think about the Ku Klux Klan now and their

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marches against the Jewish people, that was not the original.

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The first section of the Clan, which is what early

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eighteen sixties to ended about eighteen seventy, there were Jewish members. Yeah,

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there were Jewish members in the Klan, even the second one,

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which they say starts in nineteen fifteen, and some of

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it they try to tie in with the Leo Frank

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case the Knights of Mary Fagan, which is very suspective

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that's even the case. It's really the nation of the

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birth of a nation d W. Griffith, his movie that

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was a big deal off from the book The Clansmen,

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and actually that kind of was a rebirth. But even

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then that's still involved a lot of Jews, or a

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decent amount. And I think that the pushback that the

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Jews gave to the South in this case for this

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despicable guy is actually what ended up making more of

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a pushback against them, which was a later filler, perhaps

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even into the Klan, probably the third wave.

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Speaker 1: Right, the first plan was really a reaction to reconstruction exactly.

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Nathan Bedford Forrest who picture on the picture on the

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wall there, I'm in Alabama. We uh yeah, it's by

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the way.

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Speaker 2: It's it's interesting when you read about the Klan how

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the first two disband almost it sounds like the Libertarian Party,

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which is there's too much confusion. People are organization that

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it really know what they're doing. And next thing you know, Bedford,

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he's Forrest, He's like, hey, I'm out. I'm just banding

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this thing as an example.

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Speaker 1: So all right, so let's that's out of the way.

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It wasn't this. They didn't look at him because they

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didn't look at Leo Frank because he was a Jew.

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They looked at Leo Frank because there was it was

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only him and really one other person who had opportunity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we can walk through some of the timeline

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with this if you want to. Actually, you know, before

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in some in case someone's totally confused about what happened here,

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this is nineteen thirteen to murder this girl. This guy

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Leo Fanks, he's a Jew. He gets he goes to murder.

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They said he murdered this girl. Out of this comes

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the ADL and ADL is kind of what spurred some

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of this, and there are a lot of ones that

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are still pushing the propaganda. What's important also about this

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is that the Brene Britt Banny Brith that he was

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a president of that's where the ADL specifically came from.

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So the birth of a nation and the birth of

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the ADL all kind of at the same time.

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Speaker 1: All Right, I know I'm going to get this wrong.

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I might get this wrong, and I want to apologize,

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but I do want to say hello to somebody who

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after I did the Michael Jones episode, I really received

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the newsletter her in my in my po box and

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it was it's the Mary Mary Fagan Newsletter and it's

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put out by the grand niece of Mary.

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Speaker 2: Fagan, Mary Kate Fagan I think is her name or.

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Speaker 1: Something, and I wanted to thank thank her for sending that.

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That was a very interesting Uh, it's nice that people

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are still doing newsletters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she put out a book trying to kind of

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counter some of this. Uh, there's multiple books that Dennison,

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this guy that wrote it in the sixties, Steve Oney

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was a big one. And then anyway, go ahead, there's

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I need to keep propping. But no.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so all right, so she's murdered. She's murdered in

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the She's found in the factory itself. The factory is

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owned by Leo Frank, and there's also a black gentleman

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who the stories go that he mopped the floors everything,

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that he just stood by the front door. And it

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appears that when it comes to the investigation, there's only

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two possible people who could have done it, this black

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gentleman named Jim Connolly and the owner of the factory,

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Leo Frank. Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So to start out with, Mary goes to pick

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her paycheck up at the pencil factory. Now I don't

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think he owned it. I think his uncle actually owned it.

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He was a superintendent. Doesn't matter, it's all family. So

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she goes to pick up her paycheck on Saturday. Saturday

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was a holiday, it was closed. They typically pick it

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up on Friday. And one of the things is her

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friend went to pick it up for and Leo's like, no, no, no,

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She's got to come here herself, which was not usual

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because friends picked up paychecks for each other all the time.

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There she comes there, she's off on this trolley with

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one of her friends. She gets off and now the

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timelines gets important. She had cabbage for lunch, which actually

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comes out to be kind of the forensics that you

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have with this. She comes to the factory around noon

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and she and Leo she comes to get her money.

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She gets it from him, He signs off in the

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thing and he is the last one to ever see her. Now,

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Jim Connolly, who you mentioned, Yeah, he's kind of your

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darrelic guy that works there at the Do you mind

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if I say the N word? And he's considered even

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by other ones, they call him a low level nigger,

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so that's just, you know, the way to describe him.

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Of course, we're talking about nineteen thirteen here, and he's

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at the place, but her body is not discovered until

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the night watchman Newt Lee is another black man, finds

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her about three in the morning, tries to call Leo

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Frank not to get called the police, and then they

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come over there. As it works out much later down

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the line, Jim Connolly admits to knowing something about the murder,

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So essentially, yes, to answer your question, he Jim Connolly

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and Leo Frank are the only two it could possibly be.

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Connolly points the finger of Frank. Frank now has to

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point the finger back of Connolly. But even to get there, Pete,

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Leo Frank tries to pin the murder on a white guy.

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He then tries to pin it on Newt Lee. He

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then tries to pin it on Connolly. So he's always

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pinning it on someone else, and the black guys are

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the ones that he really tries to emphasize.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would seem to make sense because of the

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tenor of the South at that point. And yeah, so

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all right, what leads them? What evidence? I mean, you

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don't need a you don't need to build the case

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before you arrest someone. You just need some kind of

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substantial evidence to what is it that they they find?

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What's the evidence that leads to Leo Frank being arrested?

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, Newtly, like I said, the night Watchman, he

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finds her down in the basement. He doesn't even know

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if she's a white girl, black girl. Her face is

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so messed up and it's kind of dark down there.

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So he calls the police. They come over, they question him,

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and you know, immediately, hey, black guy, young girl. She's thirteen,

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by the way, young girl. He's probably the one so,

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but he's all straight up about everything that's going on.

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So they arrest him. Then they they're they're immediately somewhat

237
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I don't know if there's suspicious or Leo frank, but

238
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they at least do some good police work where they

239
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don't just give it away like you're the white guy.

240
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Of course, she had nothing to do with it. They

241
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,039
called him up, he answers, and they're like, hey, we're

242
00:13:32,039 --> 00:13:33,600
going to have to come get you in the morning.

243
00:13:34,879 --> 00:13:38,159
They go to pick him up, and he is super nervous,

244
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,200
like over the top right. Then that's where they start

245
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,399
to be suspicious. They ask him if he knows who

246
00:13:43,399 --> 00:13:46,360
this Mary Fagan girl is, and he's like, I don't,

247
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I don't know. May off to check my books. It's

248
00:13:49,759 --> 00:13:52,639
all important later on because he had multiple interactions with her,

249
00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:55,240
so of course you'd know who it is. I think

250
00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:58,120
the night watchman did tell the police right that he

251
00:13:58,159 --> 00:14:02,039
had that Leo had called him around seven or eight

252
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,679
that night, which had never done, asking if is everything okay,

253
00:14:05,919 --> 00:14:08,600
So there was already a little bit of suspicion. They

254
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,200
take him to the not the corner, but where she's

255
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,919
being in turn or her body's there at the I

256
00:14:14,919 --> 00:14:18,120
guess the corner's office and Leo Frank went look at her.

257
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,200
He's really super nervous. Then when they get him over

258
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,000
to the factory and they're walking him through, he is

259
00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:28,519
he's acting really weird, so they're immediately on edge and

260
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he ends up they take him into the to the

261
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,679
police station after that evening or that morning and walking around,

262
00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:39,600
and they actually tried to have him interrogate Newt Lee

263
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,559
to get some evidence out of him, which ends up

264
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,519
just going not too good for either party, but they're

265
00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:50,159
both arrested. They end up arresting Jim Connolly as well,

266
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,120
and he hangs out in jail for several weeks.

267
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Speaker 1: So from what I understand from reading other things that

268
00:14:58,759 --> 00:15:01,799
Leo when they brought him to the factory, he was

269
00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:05,240
he was so nervous and shaken that he couldn't like,

270
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,559
he couldn't hold things in his hand. He was just

271
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:15,240
he was a complete wreck. And obviously he was nervous

272
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:23,679
that he that he was caught. But I guess the

273
00:15:23,879 --> 00:15:28,480
hard I guess the thing about the whole trial or

274
00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:35,759
the whole case, is that how quickly do we get

275
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:40,919
to the point where his lawyers show up and make

276
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,840
it all about, you know, the deflection away and how

277
00:15:44,879 --> 00:15:47,120
he's a pillar of the community, YadA, YadA, YadA, all

278
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:47,600
this all that.

279
00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:53,679
Speaker 2: So not really yet. Matter of fact, it doesn't get

280
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,279
into the till we're into the trial where they start

281
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,960
to that's by the way, so I know I've heard

282
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,759
you talk about it. He was the only thing they

283
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,120
charged him with were murder, Okay, that was it. It

284
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,200
wasn't rape, by the way. We can talk a little

285
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,240
bit about that, because that's actually somewhat questionable. But even

286
00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:17,759
then to the same way back in nineteen thirteen, is

287
00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:21,159
it pretty much is today. You can't try to prosecute

288
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,120
someone on their character, and you know, like a prostitute.

289
00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:25,840
Don't get to say, oh, she's a prostitute, that's why

290
00:16:25,919 --> 00:16:29,120
she was raped. No, no, no. But if they bring

291
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,759
up his good character, you can rebut it with bad character.

292
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,120
And that's one of the mistakes that they started to do,

293
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,080
was they wanted to show his good character in him

294
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,120
being a pillar of the community during the trial, and

295
00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:43,320
then what it allowed everyone to do was to bring

296
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,600
in all these instances where he wasn't and some of

297
00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:51,320
the salacious stuff that he was doing in the building

298
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,159
bringing girls in, touching them, looking in the bathroom all

299
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,120
the time, opening their door when they're dressing, all these

300
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,799
kind of things, and then specifically the stuff that Jim

301
00:17:01,799 --> 00:17:03,679
Connolly was able to testify against.

302
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 1: It all about was there ever a I just want

303
00:17:10,759 --> 00:17:13,720
to pick one thing out before I forget it is?

304
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:20,759
Was there ever an attempt to pay Jim Connolly to

305
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,279
admit guilt?

306
00:17:22,519 --> 00:17:25,599
Speaker 2: So Jim Connolly is, he's the guy that works there.

307
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,599
His deal with Leo was he would have him come

308
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,119
in on certain days and this is the day he

309
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,440
said it was supposed to be the case. Well, and

310
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,119
by the way, he's in jail because why not lock

311
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,000
up the black guy will just and he's kind of

312
00:17:38,039 --> 00:17:40,440
sitting there. After a few weeks, he finally is like,

313
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,480
let me talk to someone. He wants to start telling

314
00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:44,920
them some stuff. The reason he wanted to start telling

315
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,319
him things was because he then he changes his stories

316
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,720
multiple times. Okay, so it's a little bit problematic. But

317
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:54,880
when he does testify sixteen straight hours, cross examined by

318
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,119
some of the best lawyers in the country, let alone

319
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,119
the South, he holds steady and it's it's pretty stellar.

320
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,680
What he claims is that he is supposed to be

321
00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:08,759
watching out for Leo. Leo brings girls in there. They

322
00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:11,160
just want to talk. Leo says, tell you what I

323
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,039
taped my foot. You shut the door when I whistle,

324
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,119
you open it and we're done. And he's like he

325
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,359
had done that multiple times for him. Different girls would

326
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,519
come in. He seemed to like the plump girls. I

327
00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:22,720
don't know if that was the reason, but Jim Connolly

328
00:18:22,759 --> 00:18:26,039
did mention that multiple times on the On the testimony.

329
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,079
Speaker 1: Jim Connolly may have been projecting.

330
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,119
Speaker 2: What's hilarious, pee imagine this. Leo is sitting there, you know,

331
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,880
he's the defense. He's at this table, his wife is there.

332
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,119
The whole time. Jim's talking about all these other girls.

333
00:18:39,319 --> 00:18:43,519
And at one point he does an antecdote about Leo

334
00:18:43,599 --> 00:18:47,279
Frank talking about a watch, because Jim connolly had bought

335
00:18:47,319 --> 00:18:50,680
a watch and he borrowed money from Leo. So Leo's

336
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,440
actually takes money out of his pay and he's like,

337
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,079
I don't know why you want it. Does what Leo

338
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,839
says to Frank and he's testifying to this, He goes,

339
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,240
I don't know why you would want this watch? He goes,

340
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,839
my wife, that fat lady. She wants to watch, and

341
00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:05,599
I don't want to get her. So he's outwardly ripping

342
00:19:05,599 --> 00:19:07,799
on his wife as she's in court. I don't know

343
00:19:08,519 --> 00:19:11,319
humorous to me, that's all I'm saying, Okay, let's get back.

344
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,000
Which is he He says that Leo gave him a

345
00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:20,519
water cash two hundred dollars to burn the body. Basically,

346
00:19:20,559 --> 00:19:25,079
he says, she hit her head. I put myself upon her.

347
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,519
She didn't want like what I was, you know, trying

348
00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:30,160
to come on to her. She resisted. I hit her,

349
00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:32,880
and then he goes, she hit her head and then

350
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,839
she's dead. So he wanted in to have him help

351
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,240
dispose of the body. He gives impe this might be

352
00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:41,559
the most without trying to stereotype. He gives him two

353
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,440
hundred dollars to dispose of the body, and then he

354
00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:48,079
goes takes it back and he says, I'll pay you when,

355
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,000
I'll pay you when it's done. So what does Connelly do?

356
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,799
He's like whatever, and he went out to the bar.

357
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,920
He didn't burn her body. And that might be your refusal,

358
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,640
your insistence on keeping the money. It might have been

359
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,000
what actually caused him to get it. Ultimately get caught.

360
00:20:06,759 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, the stereo right, No one, you know, really,

361
00:20:11,319 --> 00:20:15,000
no group can escape stereotypes. I mean you mentioned that

362
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,519
Mary Fagan, You mentioned Mary Fagan and cabbage, and I'm

363
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:21,720
just like, well, the stereotypes are just flowing all through

364
00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:22,200
this one.

365
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 2: By the way. That and I think it's important at

366
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,000
some point, it's your show, but you do as a

367
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,319
at some point, let's talk about the South a little

368
00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:32,960
bit more depth and how it actually was. She was

369
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:36,440
Irish Catholic. The cabbage is important because they were able

370
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,680
to establish a timeline. Okay, she dies around twelve thirty.

371
00:20:40,319 --> 00:20:42,640
She had eaten this stuff like eleven thirty. Her mom said,

372
00:20:42,839 --> 00:20:47,279
so the digestion and how it's done. They can actually say, hey,

373
00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:50,000
this is approximate timeframe, which is very important because Leo

374
00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:53,000
said I never left my office from twelve to one

375
00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:57,039
and didn't even go outside of the office itself. So

376
00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:02,359
but her being Irish Catholic is also in because Tom Watson,

377
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,559
who ended up being a big publisher, wrote stuff there

378
00:21:05,599 --> 00:21:08,480
is an attorney. Uh, he came into light with this

379
00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:12,920
whole fiasco. He was very anti Catholic, so for him

380
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,039
to support her and support the black guy over Leo

381
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:18,680
with something.

382
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. The uh, all right, so let's get back.

383
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,720
Let's go back to this. So you have Jim Connolly there,

384
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:35,599
you have a newly What eventually is it that causes

385
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,079
the district attorney to say, this is the guy we're

386
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:39,799
going to charge.

387
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, once again, he was evasive, He was very nervous.

388
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,039
He didn't you know, some of his actions were always

389
00:21:47,079 --> 00:21:49,599
putting the police a little bit on edge. He goes

390
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:52,279
in immediately with the police, he's got They so what

391
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:53,799
they had to do at the time, they had to

392
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,640
as a time card though night Watchman had to punch

393
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,400
in every thirty minutes. Okay, few things that kind of

394
00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:04,440
set them off. To begin with Newt Lee the night Watchman.

395
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,200
He was told to come in early that day, four

396
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,359
o'clock rather than five because Leo was going to go

397
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,759
to a baseball game with his brother in law. Gentile

398
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,240
brother in law by the way. I don't know if

399
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,519
that has anything to do with it, but we just

400
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:20,880
throw that out there. He shows up at four and

401
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,559
he said Leo was acting really weird and basically shoot

402
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:26,400
him out. Said no, no, you just you need to leave,

403
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,079
go hang out, go sleep somewhere. Come back at six

404
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,759
and He's like, well, can I just sleep downstairs? And

405
00:22:32,759 --> 00:22:34,799
he's like, no, no, no, you can't do that. So but

406
00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:36,960
the rule was when the night watchman shows up, he

407
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,880
can't leave the building. So one he let him do

408
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,960
that comes back. And then you have some other instances

409
00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:48,599
of which is Leo's there. Girls start coming in to

410
00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:52,079
pick up their people. Saw Mary Fagan come in at

411
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:55,119
twelve o'clock. Never leave, there's not you know, this building's

412
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,960
closed for the most part. Another girl shows up at

413
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,880
twelve oh five. She says she sits in Leo's office.

414
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,799
He's not in there. She waits for five minutes Montine

415
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:08,319
Stover is her name, and then leaves leaves, so he wasn't.

416
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:10,960
So you have a problem, which is during this time

417
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,039
period he says he's never left his office. Someone is

418
00:23:15,079 --> 00:23:19,359
there specifically that sees he's not in his office at all,

419
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:22,359
so he's somewhere. And then a few other people here

420
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,640
and there. There's a big guy that had just been

421
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,599
fired that I get into too much. His name is Gant,

422
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,039
last name is Gant. He's a big, tall guy. He

423
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:32,759
shows up to pick up some shoes that he had

424
00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:36,079
left at the building, and Leo comes out with this

425
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,359
new league guy when he's trying to dismiss him, and

426
00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:41,519
this guy's like, I want my boots now he had

427
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:46,480
just fired him. There's rumor that Leo Frank had said

428
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,799
to this to someone else. He and Mary are pretty tight.

429
00:23:50,279 --> 00:23:52,960
This is well before, so there's a thought process of

430
00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:55,519
maybe a conspiracy theory that he had fired this guy

431
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,759
to get to marry himself. And anyway, this guy shows up,

432
00:23:59,799 --> 00:24:01,720
he's nervous and all. So those are the kind of

433
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,799
the aspects that really started to bring the I forgot

434
00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:07,880
to say the checking in of the the time card.

435
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,920
So when the police are there with him, he looks

436
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,160
at Newt Lee's time card and he says, it's all good.

437
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,079
He's checked in and everyone looked at it just fine.

438
00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:18,279
A few days later he then says, oh, I found

439
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,279
his time card and he wasn't punched in two different times.

440
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,079
That was plenty of time to go to his house

441
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,400
and dispose of whatever he needed to do, so you

442
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,079
may want to check on him. The police go to

443
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:36,000
his house and in a barrel they find a bloody shirt. Okay,

444
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,880
so now this is like Tuesday afterwards, so as they

445
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,000
start to investigate the shirt though, it looks like it

446
00:24:42,039 --> 00:24:45,359
was wadded up and wiped with blood or they wiped

447
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,000
blood with it, so if you were to put it on,

448
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,799
it doesn't match up anywhere the armpits the corner said,

449
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,519
or the investigator said, they weren't stained. Immediately, that's where

450
00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:57,960
the police realized that Leo is trying to set up

451
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,839
newt Lee with a fake bloody shirt and a time

452
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,880
stamp that had been altered because they had all seen

453
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,200
it at the scene of the crime the day of

454
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,519
the after the murder, that he had not missed any punches.

455
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,359
So immediately the police are already suspecting that, which is

456
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,200
an amazing thing to think of that. You know, blacks

457
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,240
were lynched pretty good in Atlanta for you know, supposed

458
00:25:21,599 --> 00:25:25,319
crimes against girls, and you have a situation that's ripe

459
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,799
for that two black men and Leo though, is the

460
00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:30,599
one that they at least hone in on. Immediately, I

461
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,359
wanted to go back.

462
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:35,319
Speaker 1: To something you had mentioned earlier. You had mentioned Connolly

463
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,119
him offering Connolly two hundred dollars to burn the body.

464
00:25:39,319 --> 00:25:40,200
When when was that.

465
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: Allegedly like what the day of the murder.

466
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,079
Speaker 1: The day of the murder?

467
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 2: Okay, so what happened there is Connolly is watching out

468
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,519
she comes in. He's watching like he's supposed to be's

469
00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:55,200
sitting at the front on a bucket or something. He

470
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,960
actually says he hears him knocking, and so he locks

471
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,160
the door. He's making sure no one's coming in there

472
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,319
because he wants to, you know, chat with her, is

473
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,680
what he says. Then he hears some footsteps down the hall.

474
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,920
A little bit later, he hears a scream that gets muffled,

475
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,039
and then hears tiptoeing coming back, and a little bit

476
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:13,759
here he's the whistle to come back up to him.

477
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,680
That's when Leo says to him, look, I did this

478
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,720
to this girl. I killed her. I didn't mean to,

479
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:21,160
but you need to help me get rid of the body.

480
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,599
So that's when they take her downstairs to the basement.

481
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,359
Leo really doesn't want anything to do with it, and

482
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,359
then he tells him you need to. We're going to

483
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,440
write these letters. There's a big deal too. There's like

484
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,200
these notes that you're going to put out there, and

485
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,680
he has Connolly write them. And Connolly does it. You know,

486
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,279
it's a bonyx. He knows like five words, but he

487
00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:43,319
struggles to write him puts him there and it says basically,

488
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,759
the night watchman is the one who did this, as

489
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:48,440
if the killers or if she is right, it's super

490
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,839
confusing even to try to read him. And that's when

491
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,240
he says, here's the money, and then he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa.

492
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,880
I don't want you to come back and come back

493
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,640
and burn her and then anyway, so that But you

494
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,559
know what's interesting to me is connolly. I mean, this

495
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,359
is a guy that was willing to take some money

496
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,039
to burn a young girl and then kept quiet, and

497
00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:11,720
then when he was in prison for a while, finally

498
00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:13,519
he's like, I don't think I'm going to get paid,

499
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:17,000
so now I better come true with my story. This

500
00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:20,559
guy isn't the best now. He was a drunk. He'd

501
00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:22,039
love to just go to the bars. He said he

502
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,000
paid repaid debts with beers. It sounds like a fun

503
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:28,079
guy to hang out with, but it also is a

504
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,960
lot of complaints about him peeing on the pencils, he

505
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:34,279
took a dump down in the basement. When I'm first

506
00:27:34,279 --> 00:27:35,960
reading this, because one of the first things I read

507
00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:41,920
was the later on, Governor Slayton makes a decision whether

508
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,519
or not to commute him, and he has a whole

509
00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:46,400
report about it, and he does not like this condy guy.

510
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960
You know, it's a despicable person. You know, you're urinating

511
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,200
on the on the on the walls and stuff. But

512
00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:55,400
and I take that. You know, the urination, the defecating

513
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,000
in the basement out that seems bad. But when you

514
00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:00,960
read some of the transcripts, you realize that that's kind

515
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,000
of what they expected the black guys to do, like

516
00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:06,640
they had white bathrooms. So he's like, I'm just doing

517
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,759
this now. Peen on the pencil seems a little bit

518
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,039
over the top.

519
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:17,599
Speaker 1: I mean, it just seems a little savage. But that's fun. Yeah, yeah,

520
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,839
all right, something that you had mentioned. Let's let's go

521
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,519
over this. It is clearly, I mean pretty much everyone

522
00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:28,359
who knows anything about this knows that she was murdered,

523
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,000
but also that she was raped. And you said that

524
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,079
that's questionable. Why is that questionable?

525
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: One? They didn't charge him for that. That the corner

526
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,920
did an extensive analysis of her and her genitalia and

527
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,279
her vagina at the time, there was no seminal fluid found.

528
00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:51,000
He said that there was appeared to be some internal

529
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,400
they called it violence, but then even on Cross he's

530
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,359
kind of you know, it looks like something happened that

531
00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:03,200
wasn't just normal, right, So something happened. Now what's interesting

532
00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:06,839
is when Leo Frank tells, and this is just goes

533
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,000
to fascinating stuff. When he's telling Connolly that he did this,

534
00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:12,519
he said, you know, I struck her, and then he says,

535
00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:15,440
you know, I'm not built like most men. Now there's

536
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,759
a I don't know what that means. Connelly seems to think,

537
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,799
because they asked him in the trial, well, what does

538
00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:24,359
that mean to you? He's like, well, I've walked in

539
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,559
on him before and he's had his head between the

540
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,119
legs of women of a woman basically, you know. So

541
00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:34,279
I think his implication of that is like, he's not

542
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:38,240
built like a normal man. Maybe he has rectile dysfunction problems,

543
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,960
so maybe he was digitally penetrating her with his hand.

544
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,920
That's kind of the idea. Others seem to think that

545
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,920
that what he meant by that was he was just

546
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,039
a frail, young, skinny guy and that hitting a girl,

547
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,400
you wouldn't expect her to hit her head and die.

548
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:55,519
I don't know.

549
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So when did they talk about Connolly getting really

550
00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:03,440
finally getting released.

551
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,759
Speaker 2: So they have him several times for a few weeks

552
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,599
in the in the cells before the trial where he's

553
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:14,799
changing his story. Now when it finally comes out and

554
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:17,960
he's got the full story of what happened, you know,

555
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,079
the money changing or almost changing hands, the getting told

556
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:25,559
that there was you know that by Leo that he

557
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:27,960
had murdered her, trying to bring the body, all that stuff.

558
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:30,720
He had gone through about three different iterations of a

559
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:33,799
declaration an affidavit to the court, and he had changed

560
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:38,599
his story. So obviously, when you have someone conscious continuously

561
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,000
changing your story when you come to court, that's going

562
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:42,559
to be something that they're really going to hound on.

563
00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:45,720
And his point was I buy it, which is, look,

564
00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:47,440
I was supposed to get this money. I didn't get

565
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,160
the money. Now I'm worried he's going to come after me,

566
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:52,400
but I'm still like, I don't want to bury him.

567
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,359
He might give me the money. So he changes the

568
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:57,400
story a little bit until the end where he's just like,

569
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,519
now this is I'm done. I don't want to get

570
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,400
pointed the finger at so I'm going to completely give

571
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,759
my full indication of the story. And then you know

572
00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:09,359
there's accusations that have come out later on that he

573
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,799
was coached by a Dorsey, the prosecutor, And I don't

574
00:31:14,839 --> 00:31:17,720
think that's the case so much. I mean, like, what's

575
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,200
just a few interesting things. Four week trial, okay, longest

576
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,400
that they had had in at least Atlanta or or Georgia,

577
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:26,559
probably in the South, maybe in the US at the time,

578
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:32,200
So a long trial. Mister connolly is testifies for two days,

579
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,279
two three days, sixteen hours of testimony, and up until

580
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:39,200
this time, even being able as a black man, being

581
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,440
able to testify in court was just verboting. It wasn't happening.

582
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:47,880
So you know, he side note here if you think

583
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:53,079
about this, a black man testifies for three days against

584
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:56,160
a white guy. Let's say this guy is a Christian, okay,

585
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,559
and he's guilty. At what point is this not your

586
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,680
Rosa Parks guy. I mean that this it blows me

587
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,920
away that he wasn't acknowledged as such.

588
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: Right. I'm just thinking about all the people who are

589
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:14,680
screaming at the screen right now, going Leo Frank's not white,

590
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,319
wasn't white.

591
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:21,519
Speaker 2: But Pete he was not considered anything but at the time.

592
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the thing. That's the thing about the

593
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,079
South too, is Jews were considered white in the South. Yeah,

594
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,359
they were Jewish slave owners. There were Judah Benjamin who

595
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,680
was the treasurer. Treasurer of the Confederacy was Jewish, Jewish

596
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:43,839
slave owners. Jews. Sorry, but they the black Hebrew Israelites,

597
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:46,359
all right, they did. They did run the slave trade.

598
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,319
And I mean they were considered to be Southerners. There's

599
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,920
no doubt that's inarguable. In nineteen thirteen.

600
00:32:56,559 --> 00:32:59,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think they actually I saw a video

601
00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:01,240
and I think I played on my first episode I'd

602
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:03,000
kind of done in this, uh where a guy in

603
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:04,400
the South and he's like, you know, who's a Jew?

604
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,440
And he's like, oh, but you're I'm a Southerner. I

605
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,960
mean that's kind of like the mentality is just, well,

606
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,640
you're a Southerner and that might be more beneficial or

607
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,319
strong as a communal tie, tribe wise, than than being

608
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:18,480
a Jew at the time. I don't know.

609
00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:24,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So all right, Uh Newt Lee had how

610
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:27,880
long is he held then? What what does he contribute

611
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,119
to that end up contributing? Uh?

612
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: So, Newt Lee, I think he was a stand up

613
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:35,359
guy and he I don't know how long he was

614
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,240
held but just like Connolly and a few others, they

615
00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:41,160
they they did figure out right away that he was

616
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,519
just not someone that was part of this. Now, once again,

617
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:46,799
as you mentioned right away and I've talked about, when

618
00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:51,279
Connolly is basically given descriptions of the murder and and

619
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:54,279
what happened, and he's implicating himself by being part of this,

620
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,240
I think you can rule out almost everybody else but

621
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:00,920
Leo Frank and Connolly, right. I mean, is Connelly going

622
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,440
to say, yeah, this guy did it and I helped

623
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,880
tried to help do that. You wouldn't. You wouldn't even

624
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,880
do that at all. So I think what he's saying

625
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,079
is either full on true or he's the murder. There's

626
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,360
only two ways around it. And they felt pretty soon

627
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,480
that Newtlee wasn't part of this. Now, Leo Frank on

628
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:18,840
that first day is allowed to go and try to

629
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,920
interrogate newt Lee outside of the police, goes in there.

630
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,599
They said, hey, you're his boss, maybe you can get

631
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:27,440
him to say something. And the only thing they don't

632
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:28,960
really hear it because it's a little bit private. The

633
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,360
only thing they hear at the end is Leo Frank saying, look,

634
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,320
if you don't come through with this. We're both gonna

635
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,360
hang now. I don't know what that means.

636
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: Is that an.

637
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,599
Speaker 2: Implication of I'm guilty or something. But pretty soon after that,

638
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,840
even when they found their shirt, they just didn't believe

639
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,920
that Newtlee was a part of this. So he was

640
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:51,280
immediately exonerated immediately for then, you know, fairly soon.

641
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:55,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, let's talk about that. You're talking

642
00:34:55,079 --> 00:34:57,960
about a time in the South where the war is

643
00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:01,400
still h people are still talking about the war. I mean,

644
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,840
there are people alive who fought in the war. There

645
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,840
are people alive who lost their families to the war,

646
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:10,559
lost their land to the war, lost their homes to

647
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:16,840
the war. Yet in this Atlanta, in this Atlanta community,

648
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:25,320
they're willing to look past the two black guys and

649
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,320
pin it on someone who was considered white at the

650
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,519
time and a Southerner.

651
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:35,559
Speaker 2: And I think, by the way, I think when the

652
00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:37,760
North really gets involved, and what I mean by that

653
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,679
is the newspapers he had New York Times, William Randolph

654
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,840
Hurst started sending people down there. The three big newspapers,

655
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,880
I think it was three in Atlanta were first against

656
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,559
Leo Frank and then they kind of come out for him.

657
00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:55,960
There's a lot of a lot of interest in pressure

658
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,000
that's just being built around this, and I think it

659
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:01,599
just it. I don't know. I had a point there, Pete,

660
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:02,280
and I forgot it.

661
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: I was talking about how they basically, at a time

662
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,880
when they definitely shouldn't wait, when you wouldn't have expected

663
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,159
them to overlook the two black guys, they went right

664
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,960
to someone who was actually considered one of them.

665
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 2: Right, Okay. I got to appreciate that. That the mentality

666
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,840
of what you might think of the South as a

667
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,800
Northerner at that time, and I believe they thought it

668
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,760
was super country. You're not very sophisticated, and it's going

669
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,840
to be an easy task to exonerate this guy, and

670
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,480
then you have the black men down there, and even

671
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:40,199
Leo coming from the North. You look, he was a

672
00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:42,639
mechanical engineer. I think he went to Cornell, so you know,

673
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:45,280
he was a fairly smart guy, thought a lot of himself.

674
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:50,920
And I think the status is really what helped the prosecution.

675
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,280
That the status on the other side, and they're believing

676
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,440
that they are just so much better, and that's not

677
00:36:57,639 --> 00:37:00,800
necessarily jew or not. It It could just be that

678
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,239
the white status. You know, how dare you have a

679
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,360
black man even testify against me? So I think that

680
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,639
made a big difference.

681
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,079
Speaker 1: Now I want to leave anything about the trial for

682
00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:17,719
the next episode. When do the newspapers start getting because

683
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,599
when you start looking into actually the number, I don't

684
00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:24,280
even know if we need to go into it until

685
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,159
the trial starts. But when you start looking at the

686
00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:29,480
amount of money that was thrown at this trial to

687
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:34,280
make Leo, to prove that Leo Frank was innocent, I

688
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,760
think I've read that it was twenty eight million dollars

689
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:40,159
in like twenty twenty three dollars.

690
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I had read twenty five. It depends on

691
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,639
when you convert that. Obviously, you know inflation going where

692
00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:49,800
the numbers. But let's even let's even say twenty five

693
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,639
twenty eight million doesn't really matter, you know that I

694
00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:55,039
would love to have that kind of money for it. Now,

695
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:57,840
it wasn't all defense that goes through all the appeals

696
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,519
that he has. And by the way, this also goes

697
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:05,519
towards much more than that, which is the investigators that

698
00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:07,880
they ended up getting, because that ends up playing a

699
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,840
huge part. The NPC ends up hiring two big investigation

700
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,679
companies both out of town. They come out there to

701
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,559
find the murder and to exonerate Leo Frank doesn't help

702
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:21,800
so much. So there was a lot of money rolling around. Now,

703
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,320
you know you mentioned just we said two hundred dollars

704
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,920
that he was going to pay him. This guy, Frank

705
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,280
Connolly was paid around six dollars a week.

706
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: Jim, So what did I say, Jim Connolly? You said, Frank.

707
00:38:33,199 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a lot of names. Yeah, Jim con thank you.

708
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,199
By the way, Jim Connolly gets paid around six dollars

709
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,760
a week. Do you throw two hundred dollars at this guy?

710
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,599
That's a lot of money. So a lot of this

711
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:48,039
twenty five thousand was later on trying to have people

712
00:38:48,119 --> 00:38:52,400
change their testimony, try to have other people make false testimony,

713
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,599
that they were just throwing money every which way. Yeah.

714
00:38:55,679 --> 00:38:58,599
Speaker 1: Well, from what I understand, they may have even brought

715
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:02,559
the pinkertons in And it was Leo Frank's people who

716
00:39:02,559 --> 00:39:05,960
brought the pinker and tends it in to investigate and

717
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:08,840
basically they were hired to prove his innocence.

718
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, them, and I want to say the Burks, there

719
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,760
was another one or something like this, And there's this

720
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,320
guy Burns. I think he was a famous investigator. He

721
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,599
was a bit trash and he had problems. But the

722
00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:24,440
Pinkertons and this other investigator firm they testified at in

723
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:26,159
court for the prosecution.

724
00:39:27,159 --> 00:39:31,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's absolutely amazing that you this guy was so

725
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:37,199
guilty that they they could they couldn't do anything with it.

726
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,960
So what else up until Well, like I said, we'll

727
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,599
leave the trial for next time, But what are we missing?

728
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,880
What do you think is relevant up until the trial

729
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,400
that we've we haven't gone over.

730
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's somewhat important to understand the

731
00:39:52,079 --> 00:39:56,960
state of nineteen thirteen in Georgia. You know, reconstruction hadn't

732
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,280
been all that long ago. You had a lot of

733
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,760
this test This trial was full of like teenage girls

734
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:07,159
testifying that they you know, they're working in this factory,

735
00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:11,599
so they're getting paid a pittance. Now, the ADL side

736
00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:15,079
likes to raw these things out as problems. Why Leo

737
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,840
Frank was hated, right, he was hated. He was a

738
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,280
Jewish owner of a factory. These girls weren't making much. Dad,

739
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,119
I don't think that would because that that tone did

740
00:40:24,119 --> 00:40:26,760
not take place during the trial and even in the

741
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,599
newspapers until after the fact. Now it's fun to go

742
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,360
back and try to deal with today's hindsight. So that

743
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,440
was a but I think it meant something. I mean,

744
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,360
there was crime going on in Atlanta. Maybe you can

745
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:38,840
talk a little bit more about this. I know there

746
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,119
was a bull weavil issue out in the west and

747
00:40:41,159 --> 00:40:45,840
so that the cottons Field was flying out there in Georgia,

748
00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:50,719
but it was the downtown Atlanta and that area itself.

749
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,000
I don't know that they were necessarily doing so great.

750
00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:55,920
So it's it's an interesting time to think about all

751
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,679
the different dynamics, and in the South specifically and in

752
00:40:58,719 --> 00:40:59,800
that area, right.

753
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: And you would think that if because the economy was

754
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,119
still trash because of everything that happened war, you would

755
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:15,239
think somebody who was successful as he was and is

756
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,400
working for a company that's obviously making money obviously, you know,

757
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:22,880
isn't paying their employees a lot of money. But I mean,

758
00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:27,880
from what I understand, those wages weren't weren't much different

759
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,920
than most factory work at the time. That they weren't hated,

760
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,800
they weren't you know, the National Penicil Company wasn't looked

761
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:42,519
at as this yep, as they weren't looked at as

762
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:45,679
like carpetbaggers, which I mean, really right, which is really

763
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,639
what they should could be considered. They weren't looked at

764
00:41:50,679 --> 00:41:52,840
that way. They weren't looked down upon. They were bringing

765
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,719
they brought jobs to the community. And yeah, I think

766
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,280
that's one of I think that's also one of the

767
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,239
reasons why they were so diligent in looking into this.

768
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,679
And you know, I don't think they wanted to blame

769
00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:10,760
when you read it, they didn't want to blame Leo Frank.

770
00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:14,119
They would have much rather blamed it on Conley or

771
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:19,000
even new Lee. But the evidence was just remarkable.

772
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:23,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and your carpetbagger comment is really interesting because I

773
00:42:23,159 --> 00:42:25,599
think they come down and they're part of the community.

774
00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:27,880
You know, they're they're involved in there. I mean, he

775
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,039
went out and did stuff with Connolly that day. They

776
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:33,280
walked to some store together, you know, they're hanging out,

777
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:36,760
whereas the carpetbagger is maybe down there. You know, I'm

778
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,559
not a big I don't know a ton about it,

779
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,599
but it's you know, the reconstruction. Those guys basically fleecing

780
00:42:42,599 --> 00:42:46,280
a lot of our communities. Mary Fagan, she was only

781
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:47,760
she was there to pick. You know, thirteen year old

782
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,320
girl dollar twenty five is all she was getting paid

783
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,679
that day. I don't know, it's an interesting time to

784
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,079
look back on, you know, what your kids are doing

785
00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:58,760
or the amount of money that was being pushed around

786
00:42:59,039 --> 00:43:02,480
what a dollar was meant for at the time. But yeah,

787
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:05,360
that's that's kind of that time. Per oh h. Woodrow

788
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,679
Wilson was just elected president too, so we had that

789
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:09,360
going for us.

790
00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: The jeez, now you're depressing. Yeah, and let's talk about

791
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,920
I mean, thirteen year old girls. We think about that

792
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,400
now and we're like, it's insane to think about. But

793
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,000
when you look at like her life, I mean she

794
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,199
woke up and she went on the trolley by herself,

795
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,519
she stopped and would meet friends at a place to

796
00:43:34,599 --> 00:43:38,800
eat by herself. I mean, these these girls were because

797
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,519
of what the situation was, and we've seen it in

798
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:46,079
other countries, especially like a lot of the Asian countries

799
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:49,559
coming out of coming out coming out of the war,

800
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,159
things like that. Yes, you would have to have what

801
00:43:52,199 --> 00:43:56,119
would be considered now child labor. But also I mean

802
00:43:56,199 --> 00:43:58,480
it seems like they you know, it forced them to

803
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:00,599
grow up a lot, a lot sooner and be a

804
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:01,719
lot more mature.

805
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 2: Right, And one thing I was reading, which it isn't

806
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,840
necessarily how you want to grow up, is they're talking

807
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,320
about putting your daughter into one of these factories to

808
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,360
work is basically to prostitute her out. And they don't

809
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,800
mean like, oh, she's working for little money, and they

810
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,199
mean she's going to get sexually assaulted. So what I

811
00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:21,119
couldn't quite get from the Corners report when he was

812
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,000
it almost sounds like he said her hymen was already broke,

813
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,960
and so there's a good idea. Maybe she wasn't even

814
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,480
a virgin. So I don't know if she had been

815
00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:33,360
hooking up with Frank. It doesn't sound like it because Leo,

816
00:44:33,559 --> 00:44:37,360
because she rebuffed him at this moment. But he was

817
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,719
definitely doing this with some others. So but yeah, he

818
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,320
was also with older women, So it's interesting. Do you

819
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,519
call him a pedophile? I don't, perhaps probably an hour

820
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:49,440
standard a time. I don't know what it was back then,

821
00:44:49,639 --> 00:44:53,280
If that was completely off limits, I don't know.

822
00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't think they I don't even

823
00:44:57,519 --> 00:44:58,880
know if they had an age of consent at that

824
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,079
point anyway, Yeah, I don't think that comes until later.

825
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,639
Well up until I guess are we are we run

826
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,199
up to the trial here? Can we uh? Can we

827
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:15,679
cut this one and uh scheduling schedule another episode or no?

828
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's what's interesting about some of

829
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,320
these things is I don't know if you want to

830
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,039
talk about the news the North that we can cut it,

831
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:24,079
that's fine.

832
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,039
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, yeah, let's let's save the news because that's

833
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,679
really that that's really when you start getting into the

834
00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:34,119
trial too, when it's starting, when the influence you're they're

835
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:38,400
trying to influence everyone from public opinion to the lawyers,

836
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,440
to the judge to the Then you'll probably do a

837
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:43,840
whole episode on the governor.

838
00:45:45,079 --> 00:45:47,159
Speaker 2: Well, I'm ready to go with him by the way too.

839
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, tell everybody plug whatever you want and

840
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,719
we'll come back episode two.

841
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 2: Just go to Twitter. It's just yeah, Tyler monkey on Twitter, LPR.

842
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,960
If you go do rumble, that's another good way to

843
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,960
do it. So check out our stuff. But yeah, just

844
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:08,199
keep going, Pete.

845
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate him. Man, we'll schedule the next one. Talk

846
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:13,400
to you later.

847
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:14,039
Speaker 2: Thanks.

848
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:19,039
Speaker 1: Then I want to welcome everyone back to the Peaking

849
00:46:19,079 --> 00:46:22,159
Yana Show Part two with Tyler. Let's going on Tyler.

850
00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 2: How you doing good, Pete, thanks for once again for

851
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,320
having me. By the way, I heard your show with

852
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,519
Bird and I know exactly what he's saying when you

853
00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:30,360
do the intro and you don't know what to say,

854
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:33,039
and here I am fucking it up. Thanks good.

855
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always weird. It's like, hi, right up, speak

856
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,679
it and turn it into.

857
00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 2: A question, right right?

858
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,679
Speaker 1: All right? So, after all the lead up to the

859
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,239
trial that we did last time, I want to talk

860
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,440
about the trial and the appeals today. So how did

861
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,000
this trial get started? I mean just go yeah, yeah,

862
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:02,559
that you're the lawyer, right.

863
00:47:03,559 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 2: Let me start by saying there was a few slight

864
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,880
corrections I wanted to do from last time, and and

865
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,360
and what I would tell everybody is look there you

866
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,880
had posted it out on the internet as well on Twitter. Uh.

867
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,639
The seminal book for this is by the Nation of Islam,

868
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,360
The Secret Relationship between Blacks and Jews, The Leo Frank

869
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,400
Case Lynching of a Guilty Man, Volume three. I think

870
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,840
that's what it is. Yeah, there you go. Fantastic. It's

871
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,679
it is so well documented it is unbelievable. Now they

872
00:47:34,119 --> 00:47:36,599
throw a few good nuggets in here that you know

873
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:39,320
because they come from it from a little bit different perspective.

874
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,159
But I just thought they did an amazing job at it.

875
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,880
I don't know what you're thinking of it. With that

876
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:49,159
in mind, there is so much pleadings out there. There

877
00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:51,239
are so many, you know, books written on it. There

878
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,119
was where they say a million words of just the

879
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,679
actual legal filings in this case. Uh So, with that

880
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,159
in mind, there's a ton of research material. I can't

881
00:48:01,199 --> 00:48:03,239
remember at all. I've tried to get as best I

882
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,840
can out to everybody, So please go and do your stuff,

883
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,199
hopeing out make material mistakes. But there were a few.

884
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,559
One you asked me last time about Newt Lee if

885
00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:15,000
he was let go right away. Just make a little correction,

886
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,119
he was actually held the entire through the entire trial.

887
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,360
Now he was and I'm going to do a quick

888
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,239
timeline here, but he he was roughed up a bit

889
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,960
and then they decided he wasn't going to be the

890
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,760
guy that they are going after, and he but they

891
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,800
kept him basically locked up for his own protection.

892
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: Okay.

893
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: Another one was the ADL. I did find out that

894
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,079
they said that the ADL technically had been started in

895
00:48:40,199 --> 00:48:43,559
Chicago prior to the murder. But the murder and the

896
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:48,440
ADL really born out of the bang breath in Atlanta

897
00:48:48,559 --> 00:48:51,400
with the big seminal, you know, the ignition for all that.

898
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:53,960
Other than that, that's that's pretty what we.

899
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: Had to start.

900
00:48:55,199 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 2: I will say, let me let me start here and

901
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,719
then we'll go into the trial. And by the way,

902
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,639
interrupt me at any point, p As, you will just

903
00:49:01,679 --> 00:49:04,320
go there were three I want to talk about the

904
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,800
three frame ups that really happened, and then that will

905
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,400
help us kind of walk our way through this. So

906
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:12,480
you had at one point he tries to frame Leo

907
00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:16,000
Frank tries to frame Newt Lee he's the night watchman.

908
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,679
And how he did that was there's two notes that

909
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:24,159
they found that implicated a tall, slender black man night

910
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,039
which they said, but we can show those notes as well.

911
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,079
Remember that we said the time card that he had

912
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:31,679
one point he said it was perfectly fine, and then

913
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,320
later on he produced a time card that said that

914
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,000
he had missed times. It gives so he's still pushing

915
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,159
this guy the bloody shirt. His men somehow had obviously

916
00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:43,719
planted a bloody shirt that the police weren't buying it.

917
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,800
They allowed him to interrogate Newt by himself at one point,

918
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:51,079
and then in the trial they were even and this

919
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:54,119
is fine. You know, when you're putting your defense on

920
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:57,360
for your client, you're going to try to strike a

921
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,679
reasonable doubt anywhere you can. And they were still trying

922
00:49:59,679 --> 00:50:02,159
to even point the finger at new Lee at that time.

923
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,039
So that's that's the first guy. The second guy is

924
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:08,800
James Gant. He was the one that was came to

925
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,960
the factory and at six o'clock saw Newt Lee out

926
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,440
there with Leo Frank. Was Leo kind of got shocked

927
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:20,960
about this whole situation. Uh he he being Leo Frank

928
00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:25,639
had mentioned to the his Pinkerton's, his private detectives, that

929
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,239
James Gant was friendly with Mary Fagan. That's two things.

930
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,440
One is, hey, go and investigate him. But the other

931
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,039
thing is he had been telling the police this whole

932
00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:37,800
time he didn't he'd never met Mary Fagan. He didn't

933
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,480
even know her. As a matter of fact, I didn't

934
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,480
even know what her name is. So now that he

935
00:50:41,559 --> 00:50:44,480
says that, that's like an implication of guilt, but it

936
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:49,159
also is trying to put the the onus on James Gant.

937
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,519
So there was there was that part and then we

938
00:50:51,639 --> 00:50:54,559
come to James Connolly. Here is the big thing with

939
00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:57,880
James Connolly. He's the guy that found that or helped

940
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:01,039
Leo Frank kind of disposed of the body.

941
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:02,519
Speaker 1: He was.

942
00:51:03,159 --> 00:51:06,199
Speaker 2: And once again we've put this into great perspective, which

943
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,719
is how the South was at that time. You do not,

944
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,159
as a black man, have a murdered white girl in

945
00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:16,199
a factory that you work at and suddenly think that

946
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,760
you're just gonna not be thought of as a possible

947
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,320
the possible guilty party. He finds out, and this comes

948
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,159
out when you go through the trial. There's this lady,

949
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,559
miss White. She shows up at the factory. She sees

950
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,159
a Negro sitting there. She's there at around eleven thirty.

951
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,480
She comes back a little later, she's there at twelve thirty.

952
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,800
Leo Frank makes her leave at one o'clock around twelve.

953
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,239
I'm sorry, but she had seen Connolly there. She tells

954
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,400
James Gant, I mean, she tells Leo Frank and the

955
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,679
Pinkertons that she saw this negro there. Now, why would

956
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,679
you not pin the murder on Connolly? Immediately? He's a

957
00:51:56,679 --> 00:52:00,000
black man, he's seen around there. No one likes him

958
00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:02,880
him and he didn't get pinned. Matter of fact, that

959
00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:07,000
never got relayed to the police until later. She then says, oh, yeah,

960
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,239
I told the Pinkerton's, the private detectives, but I didn't

961
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,000
and then I told the police. So the police found

962
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:15,559
out later. But Leo Frank had heard this and he

963
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:18,440
didn't push that. The only reason he's not putting there's

964
00:52:18,519 --> 00:52:22,159
multiple chances he has to pin the tail on the

965
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:25,960
donkey of Jim Conley, but he doesn't do it. And

966
00:52:26,119 --> 00:52:28,800
you know why, Pete is because he had been implicated

967
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,199
him already and they had their deal going that he

968
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,199
can't say Jim Connolly, oh yeah, he's the negro that

969
00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:37,199
did this. Now go check him out, because if you're

970
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,719
going to go do that, Jim Conley is going to say, well,

971
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,440
I wrote these notes, I helped him take care of

972
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,119
the body. So for me, that's a fascinating thing. Now

973
00:52:45,199 --> 00:52:46,800
let me do this real quick. It's a bit of

974
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,639
a timeline. We'll jump rope front before we go to

975
00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:53,400
the trial. So the twenty sixth, Mary Fagan is murdered,

976
00:52:54,000 --> 00:53:00,000
the twenty seventh, new Lee is arrested under suspicion of murder.

977
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:03,719
The twenty eighth, so we're getting a Tuesday Leo, Frank

978
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:09,519
is questioned. He then hires the Pinkerton Detective Agency on

979
00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:12,840
the thirtieth, So it's twenty six. Now at the thirtieth

980
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,360
suspicions of Frank are finally raised by Mary's friends. They're saying, hey,

981
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,199
he was kind of a creepy guy. And also new

982
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,920
Lee tells investigators that Frank acted nervous that day. May one,

983
00:53:24,119 --> 00:53:26,679
Jim Conley, an African American sweeper at the factory, is

984
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,639
arrested after being found in the basement trying to rinse

985
00:53:29,679 --> 00:53:32,039
out a blood stained shirt. Now this is important, this

986
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:35,360
is May one. He's rinsing out a blood stained shirt.

987
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:40,159
It turned out to be rust and when when to

988
00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:41,880
find him down there? Why is he doing this? Well,

989
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,360
because everyone in the factory had said you've got to

990
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,400
go and we're going to start to interview, So he

991
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,079
was trying to clean a shirt. If he had done

992
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:51,239
this to this girl, he would have been out of

993
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,199
the state already, not a doubt in my mind, he

994
00:53:54,199 --> 00:53:57,159
would have hit the road. You think a black man's

995
00:53:57,199 --> 00:54:00,199
going to get a fair trial, He's not even going

996
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:01,719
to get a trial. He's just going to get lynched.

997
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,280
And we're done and over. So at that point you

998
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,679
even think, Okay, he's maybe arrested, maybe Leo Frank is

999
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,159
going to start throwing some shade his way or guilty

1000
00:54:12,159 --> 00:54:15,280
is no, it didn't happen. May, Newt Lee and Leo

1001
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,480
are ordered to the Corner's Jury to be held under

1002
00:54:18,519 --> 00:54:21,599
the charge of murder. So the coroner does an investigation.

1003
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,440
He says, yes, we should push it Corner's inquest. Then

1004
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,239
they go to the grand jury. Now there's rumors about

1005
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,840
some notes being spread around. That's when in May and

1006
00:54:31,119 --> 00:54:35,480
middle part of May, that's when Lee le sorry Jim

1007
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:38,159
Conley starts to go, ooh, maybe this is going to

1008
00:54:38,199 --> 00:54:39,840
go south. I don't want to be the guy. He

1009
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,440
starts hearing rumors too about a black guy being implicated.

1010
00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:44,639
He doesn't really know it's new Lee, and he thinks

1011
00:54:44,679 --> 00:54:47,400
maybe it's him, so he starts to come up there.

1012
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,199
Now maybe twenty one, Hugh Dorsey announces that he's going

1013
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,360
to do indictments from the grand jury against both Newt

1014
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,639
Lee and Leo Frank, and then they'll concentrate on Frank.

1015
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,800
And then the grand jury hands down an indictment on

1016
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,800
May twenty third against Leo Frank, but not against Newton Lee.

1017
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,599
And then Conley finally comes clean and then we'll kind

1018
00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:12,599
of get into the trial there. So that's any questions

1019
00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:14,559
about any of that yet?

1020
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: No, No, sounds good, all right, keep going.

1021
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,559
Speaker 2: Okay, so now we got the trial started. So what's

1022
00:55:21,559 --> 00:55:23,559
so interesting about the trial? And we talked about it

1023
00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:26,679
a little bit. I mean, look what she raped. I

1024
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,480
don't know, there's definitely something that happened to her sexually.

1025
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:32,960
By the way. I didn't mention this last time because

1026
00:55:33,159 --> 00:55:35,519
and I had to. I don't like listen to the podcast.

1027
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:37,559
I'm on this pete, but I had to go back

1028
00:55:37,559 --> 00:55:39,400
and listen to it and to figure see what I

1029
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,519
was missing here. One aspect is, Okay, Leo Frank sees,

1030
00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:46,559
how's the girl Mary. He's trying to diddle her, she's

1031
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:49,280
resisting him. He hits her, she falls, and she hits

1032
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,920
her head. Now that's not what killed her, by the way,

1033
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:54,280
So you think of that and you're like, okay, you

1034
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,079
know it's not first degree murder. No, no, no. He

1035
00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:00,760
then goes and he's like, okay, my life is trash here.

1036
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,199
I can't have this girl. You know, why did she

1037
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,360
get hit? I was trying to, you know, get in

1038
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,199
her pants. I smacked her. That can't happen. So he

1039
00:56:09,519 --> 00:56:13,079
strangles her to death. That to me is that that's

1040
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:14,719
what pushes it over the line. I think that's what

1041
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,199
everybody really comes to like a rally around. Okay, so

1042
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,320
he was sexually a molestner. He hit her, that's fine,

1043
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,159
you have a choice not to go further with this

1044
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,320
at this point, and he takes a rope and basically

1045
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,440
garrots her to the point where when they're they're doing

1046
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,599
the autopsy and describing this for court, the rope was

1047
00:56:34,639 --> 00:56:37,679
still stuck in her in her neck as they went through,

1048
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:43,800
So it was it was pretty intense. Okay, so few

1049
00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:46,679
interesting aspects of how this was going to be run.

1050
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,559
So they have two attorneys on one side, two on

1051
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:52,440
the other for for the defense and the and and

1052
00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:56,639
a bunch of people are chipping in. You've got the

1053
00:56:56,679 --> 00:56:58,599
first day. The way that they do there in Georgia

1054
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:01,519
at the time was they bring everybody in and they

1055
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:05,440
swear all their witnesses in at the same time. So

1056
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,760
the prosecution's like, no problem, we'll swear them in, and

1057
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,079
the defense is like, nope, we want to do this

1058
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:14,320
at a later date they object to it, the judge

1059
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,440
overrules them. Now, the reason for doing this was they

1060
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,079
wanted to play this game and it was great for

1061
00:57:19,159 --> 00:57:22,320
the for the prosecution to see the Suddenly, you know,

1062
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:28,079
there's like forty thirty five, forty witnesses that the prosecution

1063
00:57:28,199 --> 00:57:31,519
is going to call, and the defense has around one

1064
00:57:31,599 --> 00:57:35,719
hundred plus, and they are character witnesses. There are people

1065
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,440
that are going to be you know, coming in from

1066
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,639
out of state. There are people of his Jewish society.

1067
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,559
There girls from the factory, a bunch of girls from

1068
00:57:43,559 --> 00:57:47,199
the factory. So suddenly the prosecution is like, okay, and

1069
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:49,760
we talked about this last time, which is character and

1070
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,559
how you get to present that to the judge. And

1071
00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:54,760
I thought I'd kind of go here of what see

1072
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,440
if we can find what I've written out here for

1073
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,800
the judge what he had done. Now, this is if

1074
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,360
you look at the all the pleadings in the trial transcript,

1075
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,599
the judge at the very end he then lays out

1076
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,800
what the call of basically, what did you're being charged

1077
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,199
with and how he breaks it down and what you're

1078
00:58:15,239 --> 00:58:17,639
supposed to do to think about this. So he says

1079
00:58:17,679 --> 00:58:21,679
it's it's a probable cause. Of course we need that. Uh,

1080
00:58:21,719 --> 00:58:26,039
there's there's multiple standards, and he talks about the sorry,

1081
00:58:26,039 --> 00:58:27,960
the clear and convincing evidence that we have to beyond

1082
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,880
a reasonable doubt and uponderance of the evidence. Those are

1083
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,119
kind of your different standards. And obviously we're doing a

1084
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,599
beyond a reasonable doubt that you have here. It's murder.

1085
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,039
It's unlawful killing of a person in the peace of

1086
00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:42,800
a state by a person sound and memory and discretion

1087
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,719
with malice of forethought after express or implied. And then

1088
00:58:46,719 --> 00:58:49,400
he kind of breaks down what malice is, what the

1089
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,480
presumptions are in the different types of evidence, different types

1090
00:58:52,519 --> 00:58:55,719
of evidence we're looking out here, direct and indirect. Okay,

1091
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:01,039
circumstantial evidence. In a sense, circumstantial evidence is not a problem.

1092
00:59:01,039 --> 00:59:04,039
People always like, oh, you know, this is just circumstantial evidence. Yeah,

1093
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:07,400
but sometimes that's all you really have to get somebody,

1094
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,079
And it doesn't mean that those circumstances that all build

1095
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:12,800
up are still not great. Now, this wasn't a direct

1096
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:17,119
evidence case necessarily, but there was a lot of circumstantial

1097
00:59:17,159 --> 00:59:22,320
evidence that put Leo frank right in the exact position character. Okay,

1098
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,199
so this is what the judge says, about character he goes.

1099
00:59:24,239 --> 00:59:28,239
Good character by the defense it's introduced by a defendant

1100
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,119
is always relevant and at the issue, and should be

1101
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,440
considered by the jury along with all the other evidence

1102
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:37,039
introduced as the facts of the case. However, if guilt

1103
00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:39,599
is established notwithstanding the good character, then the duty is

1104
00:59:39,639 --> 00:59:42,239
on the jury to convict. But good characters should be

1105
00:59:42,239 --> 00:59:46,239
taken into account. If that good character creates a reasonable doubt,

1106
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,559
then they should acquit. However, the general rebuttal of those

1107
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:51,920
that knew him prior to the death of Mary Fagin,

1108
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,000
the state is then allowed to attack it by showing

1109
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:59,039
his general reputation is not good by showing those witnesses

1110
00:59:59,039 --> 01:00:02,960
who testified to his your character were untruly reporting. Therefore,

1111
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,199
the state can ask if those testifying, if they've heard

1112
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:10,760
certain acts of misconduct, those as evidence. This is not

1113
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,199
evidence to misconduct unless they testify to it. So, in

1114
01:00:13,199 --> 01:00:16,519
other words, like we said, once you bring character into it,

1115
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:21,000
you can then bring bad character. And so we start

1116
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,559
out and we can walk through kind of the first

1117
01:00:24,599 --> 01:00:26,079
week of the trial. The second week, I mean it's

1118
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:27,920
four weeks. I'm not gonna We're gonna sit here and

1119
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,400
walk through four weeks of testimony. So I'll kind of

1120
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,079
break it down to begin with, which is you have

1121
01:00:35,119 --> 01:00:38,079
they bring in the mom The prosecution does a really

1122
01:00:38,119 --> 01:00:39,559
good thing in the first week of just kind of

1123
01:00:39,599 --> 01:00:43,480
laying out everything the timeline. New lead testifies. Once again,

1124
01:00:43,519 --> 01:00:47,119
remember they had several colored men, as they dictated on

1125
01:00:47,159 --> 01:00:53,599
the transcript, Newly Jim Connolly, and they had not really

1126
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:57,239
ever had the right to testify before in Georgia. I mean,

1127
01:00:57,239 --> 01:00:59,800
the fourteenth Amendment was put in place specifically for that

1128
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:05,239
eighteen sixty six to try to institute the fact that

1129
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,360
in all the states they would say that people can

1130
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,760
actually testify in court have their due process. So we

1131
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,320
have Jim Connelly and Newton comes in testifies, does a

1132
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:20,320
great job, and once again the defense is it's it's

1133
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,000
such a class warfare that they put on this pete,

1134
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:27,280
which is you've got the dirty negro here, and then

1135
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,280
you've got this wonderful Leo Frank and his you know,

1136
01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:34,400
good character of which and just look at the way

1137
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,760
that the black man is done up. Matter of fact,

1138
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,880
they make a case that the defense at one point

1139
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,159
when Jim Connolly is there about the fact that he's

1140
01:01:42,719 --> 01:01:44,920
got clean shirt on, that he's got his hair fixed

1141
01:01:45,079 --> 01:01:47,760
and you know he showered, and that you're typically a

1142
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,639
dirty negro, as they even say in court. And it's

1143
01:01:50,679 --> 01:01:53,159
fascinating that, you know, when they come out of this

1144
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:57,320
that you try to put this. The adl then says, oh,

1145
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,840
it's so antisemitic. Yet your races commentary the whole time

1146
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:06,400
is just outlandish. Okay, So race doesn't really come into

1147
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,760
this whole thing for the most part. Jump ahead Leo

1148
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,400
Frank's mom. There were two incidences that kind of come out.

1149
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,920
One is she's in the gallery and she yells at

1150
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:22,760
the prosecutor Hugh Dorsey, you dirty Christian dog or gentile

1151
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:24,679
dog at one point and.

1152
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:27,119
Speaker 1: That yeah, very good, there it is.

1153
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: But this is what's great, Pete is the next day

1154
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,519
there wasn't a pilgrim, there wasn't a mob outside, there

1155
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:38,239
wasn't anything like that. She just came back into court

1156
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,800
and all was good. All right, you want to keep

1157
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:42,679
going hamming away.

1158
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's just wild that it seems like there's

1159
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:53,400
a lot there's a lot of tolerance going on, yeah,

1160
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,599
on all sides. And even saying that it's you turn

1161
01:02:57,639 --> 01:03:07,280
it into a class war. That's uh, that's interesting because yeah,

1162
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,280
no one would ever think that somebody of high class

1163
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:16,360
would come on to a young girl and possibly hurt her.

1164
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,000
I mean, there's no evidence of that anywhere. And like

1165
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,320
just before that, right, no, not at all.

1166
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: But this is this is used over and over, I

1167
01:03:24,199 --> 01:03:26,719
mean jumped forward in a few years. Another issue I

1168
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:30,559
get realed deep into is Wittaker Chambers, alger Hiss the

1169
01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:35,199
Pumpkin papers, and was alger Hits a communist spy and

1170
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,880
Wittaker Chambers they you know, hid horrible teeth and that

1171
01:03:38,039 --> 01:03:40,079
was the thing they were actually talking about in front

1172
01:03:40,079 --> 01:03:43,119
of Huac was look at his teeth. He's a dishoveled man.

1173
01:03:43,159 --> 01:03:45,239
Why would I this is literally what his ant. Why

1174
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:48,079
would I ever associate with him? Therefore, I couldn't have

1175
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:50,960
been handing him. You know, paper's secret spices up anyway,

1176
01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:52,559
That's that's a that's a different thing there.

1177
01:03:53,239 --> 01:03:58,079
Speaker 1: So second Mama Frank comes back into the courtroom. No

1178
01:03:58,119 --> 01:04:01,199
one's no one's screaming at her, no one's trying to

1179
01:04:01,559 --> 01:04:04,719
kill her, and everything goes on. So what happens.

1180
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So as a matter of fact, in the closing,

1181
01:04:07,639 --> 01:04:11,079
Hugh Dorsey, the prosecuted solicitor there he actually makes a

1182
01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:14,400
call to the sense of what we talked about here

1183
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,480
of the Jews in the South being part of community,

1184
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,840
and then he equates his religion to their religion and

1185
01:04:21,159 --> 01:04:24,840
you know, truest to basically, he's popping him up. He's

1186
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,239
not staying anything ornery or bad, and that never comes

1187
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,480
into it at all. There's there's no race. Matter of fact,

1188
01:04:31,519 --> 01:04:33,440
the only race that really gets brought up is once

1189
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,000
again by his mom, and then the fact that he's

1190
01:04:36,039 --> 01:04:40,760
bringing members of his Bena Breath society in there to

1191
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,920
testify on his good character. Okay, the first part that

1192
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,480
you have real a big issue with with the prosecution

1193
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,199
is Jim Common. He comes in there week two. The

1194
01:04:50,239 --> 01:04:51,880
first week it had been pretty good setting all these

1195
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,639
things up, and now he's testifying. He does multiple days,

1196
01:04:55,639 --> 01:04:58,880
I think sixteen hours. They say of testimony. This is

1197
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:00,960
a you know, a dumbni g as. They say, he's

1198
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:05,360
you can't be believed. Yet the best you know, cross

1199
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,639
examiners here in the state and then probably in the

1200
01:05:07,719 --> 01:05:10,320
nation at the time couldn't crack him. They couldn't get

1201
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,360
him to do anything other than just tell his story.

1202
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,559
And he was really pretty good at and somewhat entertaining.

1203
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,639
So that's perfectly fine. Now the problem is that you've

1204
01:05:19,679 --> 01:05:22,920
got to be able to for him describing is from

1205
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,800
the legal sense here some of these situations, you know,

1206
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,480
seeing Leo Frank in a compromising situation doing these things.

1207
01:05:29,519 --> 01:05:33,039
So there's objections at this point to him being able

1208
01:05:33,079 --> 01:05:35,159
to even testify to this. And you'll talk about it

1209
01:05:35,199 --> 01:05:37,840
when it goes to the appeals, which are can you

1210
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,599
talk about someone's character because they're saying, hey, you can't

1211
01:05:40,639 --> 01:05:42,599
talk about his character unless we're bringing up and you're

1212
01:05:42,599 --> 01:05:44,920
the you're going first as the prosecution. You know you

1213
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,719
can't even do this. But there's a pattern and a

1214
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,639
scheme that you can describe if someone is doing something

1215
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,360
like a past act, maybe another criminal activity. Once again,

1216
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,960
you can't bring their other crimes into it to say

1217
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,760
that since they did this criminal act, that therefore they

1218
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,880
would do this criminal this other one. But you can

1219
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,280
say that it's done in a scheme, in in a

1220
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,159
way and a plan that continually happens that now you

1221
01:06:10,159 --> 01:06:12,639
can use it for this case to show that it's

1222
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,880
likely that this happened as well. And that's exactly how

1223
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,000
over the objections that they got a lot of this

1224
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:21,199
testimony and from Jen Conley, now just from my own,

1225
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:23,599
you know, Pete, there's so much here, and I'm trying

1226
01:06:23,599 --> 01:06:25,079
to go back and I've even looked at some of

1227
01:06:25,119 --> 01:06:26,599
the tried to look at back some of the law

1228
01:06:26,679 --> 01:06:31,000
that they had at the time, and it's tough. Hearsay.

1229
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:33,679
Heresay is a big one. You know that that's been

1230
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,039
a rule that's been through common law for since, you know,

1231
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:39,119
the fifteen hundreds. It looked like there was a lot

1232
01:06:39,119 --> 01:06:41,320
of hearsay being thrown around here, and I don't know

1233
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,239
if they were objecting to it or not. Some of

1234
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:46,760
the transcripts when you read it, it doesn't I haven't

1235
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,400
found actually where it shows all sides of the conversation.

1236
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:54,320
So the massive document that they did for their appeal,

1237
01:06:54,719 --> 01:06:56,840
all sides said it was good, and then everyone's used

1238
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,559
that since then. It's just the testimony. It doesn't show

1239
01:06:59,599 --> 01:07:03,320
what the what the cross examiner is saying that the attorneys.

1240
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:05,880
It just says all the answers. So, but some of

1241
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,519
that stuff has been filtered into the record so you

1242
01:07:08,519 --> 01:07:11,119
can see it. But the point is there's a lot

1243
01:07:11,119 --> 01:07:16,440
of hearsay being done. Okay, week one, Week two, Conley's

1244
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:22,760
done the defense rests, and now the prosecution rest. The

1245
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,840
defense starts bringing in all their stuff, and they start

1246
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:29,360
off with just what I consider trivial stuff. They're they're

1247
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:33,559
trying to break the timeline, which is very important.

1248
01:07:33,559 --> 01:07:33,719
Speaker 1: You know.

1249
01:07:34,239 --> 01:07:36,119
Speaker 2: Leo, like I said, Leo Frank put himself in a

1250
01:07:36,159 --> 01:07:39,880
box by saying I never left this office. Someone saw

1251
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:41,960
you came in there and you weren't there. This girl

1252
01:07:42,039 --> 01:07:44,280
dies and we were able to pinot at the right time.

1253
01:07:44,599 --> 01:07:47,079
You know, it happens right next to your office, you know,

1254
01:07:47,159 --> 01:07:50,920
yet you don't hear anything. Mary Fagan, I had a

1255
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,599
dollar twenty on her. Oh Jim Connolly probably killed it

1256
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:55,760
because he wanted he wanted a dollar twenty. You know.

1257
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,079
Leo Frank got thousands of dollars in his office at

1258
01:07:58,719 --> 01:08:00,760
you know, these things don't add up. So they tried

1259
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,320
to come in with you know, like the trolley times,

1260
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,719
you know, countering with different stuff. And you had asked

1261
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,559
last time about was Jim Connolly ever offered to change

1262
01:08:09,559 --> 01:08:13,079
his story. No, he wasn't because that would have been

1263
01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:16,560
difficult because I mean they might they tried to kill him. Actually,

1264
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:20,239
they tried to poison him in jail. That's actually came out,

1265
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:22,920
but they didn't try to actually pay him off because

1266
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,279
they figured, once again, in the class situation, you've got

1267
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:27,640
a black man, he's not going to be believed. You know,

1268
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,399
he probably shouldn't even testify. That's that's their thinking of

1269
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,960
the time. But a lot of other people did and

1270
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,520
it reminded did take money and did try to change,

1271
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,520
you know, have stories that were not correct. It reminded

1272
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,319
me of the was it Paul mcgallar or one of

1273
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:43,399
those guys talked about, you know, you drag a twenty

1274
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,600
dollars bill through the trailer park, you can get any

1275
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:47,560
kind of story you want, talking about the Clinton's and

1276
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,600
stuff like that. It's kind of what happened here, all

1277
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:52,479
this money going on that you started having the defense

1278
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:57,239
people trying to counter some of the few words things

1279
01:08:57,239 --> 01:09:00,279
here and there. But the big thing was when they

1280
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:05,079
started to bring girls into talk about how great, how

1281
01:09:05,119 --> 01:09:08,399
great Leo was at the factory. Suddenly that's when the

1282
01:09:09,039 --> 01:09:12,560
dam breaks and then all hell breaks loose. So the

1283
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,159
rebuttal that comes from the state, they're able to start

1284
01:09:15,159 --> 01:09:18,800
getting rebuttal witnesses and then they start to unload this

1285
01:09:19,119 --> 01:09:21,279
you know, girl saying, oh yeah, he's coming into our

1286
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:25,920
dressing room. Oh yeah, he touched me. They're also able

1287
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:30,439
to bring in this. There was this another guy, Dabbs Dalton.

1288
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,720
I'm sorry, and he's the one that Jim Connolly said that,

1289
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:34,439
Oh I used to come here and bring girls in

1290
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:36,439
with him, and Leo would let him hang around. So

1291
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,520
I guy comes and testifies and yeah I did that.

1292
01:09:39,039 --> 01:09:41,520
The girl that he was there with, one of him

1293
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,439
was like, yeah, that happened. Another one's like no, now

1294
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,000
she's married, she's not gonna she's gonna purgy herself. She's

1295
01:09:47,039 --> 01:09:52,159
gonna protect her relationship and walk all the way through this.

1296
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:54,399
There's a lot of objections to these kind of you know,

1297
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,359
witness testimony, but in the end they're done and over

1298
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:03,159
in two weeks. Now there's if you read the closing arguments,

1299
01:10:03,199 --> 01:10:07,279
they had both had two attorneys, so it's actually pretty fascinating.

1300
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,159
These guys were well done. But before they do that,

1301
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,239
there's one other thing that happens, which is a monster.

1302
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,199
It seems like a huge mistake to me. Now the South,

1303
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,119
you know honor society that you have, which would be okay,

1304
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:27,199
Leo Frank should go up there, testify, cross examination, show

1305
01:10:27,239 --> 01:10:29,399
he's a man say he didn't do it, and you know,

1306
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,279
as his man in the South, will either believe him

1307
01:10:31,319 --> 01:10:33,199
or we don't. But that's how you do it. Well,

1308
01:10:33,199 --> 01:10:35,760
you had three options at the time. One just like now,

1309
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:40,079
don't testify, take the fifth U. Two testify and get

1310
01:10:40,079 --> 01:10:43,159
cross examined. But they had a nice little thing where

1311
01:10:43,279 --> 01:10:47,560
he can make a statement unsworn and not have the

1312
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:51,119
option to be cross examined. So Leo Frank, Yeah, it

1313
01:10:51,319 --> 01:10:53,840
should look crazy. So Leo Frank decides he's going to

1314
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,279
do this. He's been preparing for this, so he gets

1315
01:10:56,359 --> 01:10:59,880
up there and almost to all accounts, you have pro Frank,

1316
01:11:00,119 --> 01:11:03,359
you have anti Frank. Everybody says it was a rambling,

1317
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:09,319
my numbing experience. He spent hours talking about and showing

1318
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,079
how he goes through because he did all accounting for

1319
01:11:12,159 --> 01:11:17,000
the for the NPC, showing how he did his accounting

1320
01:11:17,039 --> 01:11:20,960
that day, walked everyone through the math basically to indicate

1321
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,000
if I'm going to have done this, I didn't have

1322
01:11:24,199 --> 01:11:28,439
enough time I had to I was too busy doing

1323
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:32,600
this this calculations. Anyway, I don't know what the point

1324
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,600
because it bored everyone to death. But then he says

1325
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,359
on one aspect, which is he wants to start talking

1326
01:11:38,399 --> 01:11:42,159
about this, and he says, I may have unconsciously used

1327
01:11:42,199 --> 01:11:47,399
the restroom that day around between the twelve twelve thirty.

1328
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,680
That to me, I mean, you know there's people there's

1329
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:53,239
like three or four instances where he basically claims it

1330
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,199
or admitted to doing it. I should go back just

1331
01:11:56,199 --> 01:11:59,039
one of those, which is his parent, his in laws.

1332
01:11:59,279 --> 01:12:02,239
He lived at this laws, the Sea Leagues, and they

1333
01:12:02,319 --> 01:12:07,359
had some servants the night of the murder. One of

1334
01:12:07,399 --> 01:12:09,760
the servants there, she told her husband that she was

1335
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,239
in the room. Leo Frank comes in, he's drunk. It's

1336
01:12:12,319 --> 01:12:15,000
later in the evening, and he said, I killed a girl,

1337
01:12:15,079 --> 01:12:17,359
give me my gun, I'm gonna kill myself, and the

1338
01:12:17,399 --> 01:12:20,640
sousand to his wife, I didn't do it. So this

1339
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,880
lady or her husband's like, oh shit, this guy's a creep.

1340
01:12:24,279 --> 01:12:26,560
Uh tells the cops. They come and get her. She

1341
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,039
goes in there. She has counsel with her the whole time,

1342
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,079
and she gives an AFFI David that he had said that.

1343
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,600
Now the prosecution can't introduce this affidated. They didn't even

1344
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,319
bring her up to testify because she had then tried

1345
01:12:37,359 --> 01:12:40,560
to recant this. So she goes in the stand and

1346
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,800
she's talking about some other things, and so then it

1347
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,720
was just dumb to bring her in, I think from

1348
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:49,159
the defense. But the prosecution then says to uh, you know,

1349
01:12:49,199 --> 01:12:54,199
to basically push back against what she's just claimed. They

1350
01:12:54,239 --> 01:12:56,800
show the affid David, and now they have testimony all

1351
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,479
around that. So that's one aspect that actually on the

1352
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,800
appeals they bring up. So he's admitted to someone there

1353
01:13:03,159 --> 01:13:05,560
he there was another admittance that oh that they think

1354
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:08,640
it was newly when he was in the interrogating him

1355
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:10,000
when he said we're both going to burn for this,

1356
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,199
and then obviously in court saying I may have gone

1357
01:13:13,239 --> 01:13:17,159
down to the bathroom myself. So the jury steps out,

1358
01:13:17,239 --> 01:13:20,720
they take two hours, they come back in. Just rewind

1359
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:24,159
a bit on the grand jury. There were five Jews,

1360
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:26,840
by the way, on the grand jury that indicted him,

1361
01:13:27,119 --> 01:13:29,640
two of them helping to be members of his benig breath.

1362
01:13:30,319 --> 01:13:32,359
I don't think there were any Jews on this jury,

1363
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:37,800
but they said he was guilty within two hours. There's

1364
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:40,159
one aspect that's important here, which is.

1365
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 1: You said that there were five Jews, five Jews on

1366
01:13:45,079 --> 01:13:49,680
the jury that indict grand jury, grand jury that indicted him,

1367
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,239
but there were You don't think there were any Jews.

1368
01:13:53,399 --> 01:13:55,399
There's no evidence of Jews being on the jury that

1369
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:56,199
convicted them.

1370
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 2: I have not heard any positive statements that there were. Yeah,

1371
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:04,680
there were, there were, yeah. So so nothing better two

1372
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:09,039
hours come out. Now there's a there was a due

1373
01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:12,600
process is basically, I need to have my chance to

1374
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:16,199
be served. Jurisdiction has to have over me. I get

1375
01:14:16,199 --> 01:14:18,399
a chance to have my day in court and all

1376
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:22,199
the little procedural aspects that go along with that. And

1377
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,439
one of the things that they said here in criminal

1378
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,439
courts in Georgia is that he had the right to

1379
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:31,119
be present at every aspect of his trial. Now, the

1380
01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:34,600
judge was concerned that whatever the outcome of the trial,

1381
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,399
that there may be a little bit of a riteous activity.

1382
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,439
Although there had never been any outbreaks in the court,

1383
01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:45,239
there really had been nothing outside the court. I think

1384
01:14:45,279 --> 01:14:47,399
I told you I saw this movie that was done

1385
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:51,880
in the eighties, and I'm trying to remember some of

1386
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,680
the actors in there, but there's a bunch of famous actors.

1387
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,960
Go back and watch it. It's it's pro Frank scenario.

1388
01:14:57,079 --> 01:14:59,520
And what they do in there, which is I can't

1389
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,960
find any there in the history that historically to prove

1390
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:06,039
that this is the case. During the trial, a bunch

1391
01:15:06,119 --> 01:15:08,840
of Christians are standing right outside the window and they're

1392
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,960
singing like some Christian hymn, and that's supposed to be

1393
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,640
showing that, you know, hey, we're Christians. We are going

1394
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:18,720
to get you, you dirty jew. That never happened, that's

1395
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,920
nothing like that happened. But the judge is concerned that

1396
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:27,000
if he's, if Leo Frank's out there when the jury's read,

1397
01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:31,760
something might happen. So Leo Rosser his attorney, the defense attorney,

1398
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,000
and with Hugh Dorsey, the prosecutor, they come to an

1399
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,880
agreement that they will waive his right to be there. Now,

1400
01:15:37,039 --> 01:15:40,520
Dorsey's explicit like, you can't use this against us. You're

1401
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:44,079
gonna waive this. You can't use this against this, Like, yeah, perfectly, fine.

1402
01:15:44,359 --> 01:15:47,079
Jury comes out says guilty. They pull the jury. Every

1403
01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:49,000
single one of you tell us about it. They all

1404
01:15:49,039 --> 01:15:51,920
say guilty, guilty, guilty, and we're done and over and

1405
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:56,159
then he's he's sentenced to death in a few days

1406
01:15:56,239 --> 01:15:59,079
or a few weeks. But we can any questions about

1407
01:15:59,079 --> 01:15:59,520
the trial.

1408
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: That's that's how we have Well, no that sounds good.

1409
01:16:03,199 --> 01:16:08,319
Let's there's numerous appeals, So I guess is that where

1410
01:16:08,319 --> 01:16:10,640
we're going to go now, get into the appeals? Yeah,

1411
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,520
if you want to, Yeah, yeah, I think I think

1412
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,640
that's important because a lot of people are like, oh,

1413
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:22,760
you know, it's of course a Georgia jury is gonna

1414
01:16:24,039 --> 01:16:28,520
gonna convict this dirty jew, you know, of the murder.

1415
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,199
But no, there was plenty of appeals.

1416
01:16:31,239 --> 01:16:35,079
Speaker 2: So thirteen I believe all in the highlights. Yeah. So

1417
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:37,840
uh And by the way, the best thing about this

1418
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,000
that you know, it's the time era that we're in

1419
01:16:40,039 --> 01:16:44,159
that all this has been documented, so we all we

1420
01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:47,479
have all this information, which is a great thing for

1421
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,319
everyone to go through, but it's it's not so good

1422
01:16:49,319 --> 01:16:50,680
for the A d L. They really want to go

1423
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,720
through this, and they want to go through the facts

1424
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,520
of all this. And by the way, if you go

1425
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,359
back and read at the time, even pro Frank you know,

1426
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:03,359
articles and everything, there's things that are just vastly missing,

1427
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:08,880
which is anti Semitism. It's just not at all in

1428
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:10,880
the picture at the time. And I think that's to

1429
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,880
me that one of the frustrating things you get from this,

1430
01:17:13,119 --> 01:17:15,640
which is, hey, Tyler, you know someone posted on Twitter,

1431
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,840
all big balls to do this episode, and I don't

1432
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,560
know about that. I mean, we're just breaking down the

1433
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:23,119
case and you're gonna yelled at for for what you

1434
01:17:23,239 --> 01:17:25,960
come out with because you're part your your your little

1435
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:28,600
team isn't seen in a good light. That's that's no

1436
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,319
way to go through it anyway. That's my that's my opinion.

1437
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:34,159
Speaker 1: And if it's someone on my team murders a girl,

1438
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:39,039
murders a thirteen year old girl, I'm not standing up

1439
01:17:39,079 --> 01:17:42,920
for them. No, no, no, yeah, they're not on They're

1440
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:44,000
not on my team anymore.

1441
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:49,199
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, so let's walk I'll walk through quickly just

1442
01:17:49,319 --> 01:17:52,640
kind of the dates of all the different motions that happened,

1443
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:54,560
just so we could kind of see them, and then

1444
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:58,479
we'll break through just some some highlights of the main

1445
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:02,239
issues that happened. So he's sentenced to death on the

1446
01:18:02,279 --> 01:18:05,439
twenty sixth of August. He immediately files a new motion

1447
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:08,960
for a new trial, and it goes through Judge Roan.

1448
01:18:09,079 --> 01:18:11,239
So it's got to look and we'll talk about this

1449
01:18:11,319 --> 01:18:13,600
real quick, which is when you file an appeal. It's

1450
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,920
not like I didn't like that ruling, so I need

1451
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,159
to I want someone else to you tell them that

1452
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:21,880
they were wrong. No, you have to say for reasons

1453
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,399
of objections that were overruled or the misip application of

1454
01:18:25,399 --> 01:18:29,039
the law, or that you was just so egregious in

1455
01:18:29,079 --> 01:18:33,359
the outcome that it did not warrant the verdict that

1456
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,560
was there. So it's pretty specific about what you have

1457
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:40,439
to do. He files a motion, immediately goes to Judge Roan,

1458
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:42,600
who had been the judge in the superior court that

1459
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,520
had just done the trial. He denies it, and then

1460
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:46,800
they start pushing nothing up there. I just thought it

1461
01:18:47,119 --> 01:18:50,079
was interesting, so let me see. Yeah, this is one

1462
01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:53,960
in this state. A defendant charge with the crime and

1463
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,439
tried by a jury is given the right by motion

1464
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,159
for a new trial, to have it reviewed, a verdict

1465
01:18:59,159 --> 01:19:01,640
and judgment rent against him, and to have it set

1466
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:06,680
aside if set aside for an illegality or irregularity amounting

1467
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:10,479
to harmful air in the trial, including such grounds as

1468
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:13,800
the reception of a verdict in his absence. But where

1469
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:17,439
such motion is made, it should include all proper grounds

1470
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:20,199
which were at the time known to defend it or

1471
01:19:20,239 --> 01:19:23,640
his council, or which by reasonable dillons could have been discovered.

1472
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,159
And that is really important, and that kind of becomes

1473
01:19:26,199 --> 01:19:29,680
the lynchpin, which is he doesn't bring up in his

1474
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,880
first and it's one hundred and three different grounds for

1475
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,079
dismissal of a new trial that he wants. He does

1476
01:19:35,119 --> 01:19:38,159
it rit on the air and just keeps going through

1477
01:19:38,159 --> 01:19:41,399
with these, but he doesn't on this first attempt bring

1478
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,239
up the fact that he was not in the courtroom. Okay,

1479
01:19:44,319 --> 01:19:49,279
now his attorneys had said we're waiving it, but now

1480
01:19:49,279 --> 01:19:51,439
it's different attorneys that are doing working all the appeals

1481
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:53,520
for him, and they don't bring that up in his

1482
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:57,479
first motion. It comes back to somewhat bite him. So

1483
01:19:58,119 --> 01:20:00,319
he gets those denied, and he keeps going through. He

1484
01:20:00,359 --> 01:20:04,000
finds another one, and you've got the multiple courts here,

1485
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:07,039
so the thirteen isn't quite thirteen. It's like goes to

1486
01:20:07,079 --> 01:20:08,600
the first one and then he appeals to the next

1487
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:11,520
one or amends it. He then comes back the motion

1488
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:13,319
for a new trials denied. So then he does what's

1489
01:20:13,359 --> 01:20:15,319
called the writ of errors. Here's all these errors that

1490
01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:18,479
we're supposed to have been corrected, and that weren't all

1491
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:24,239
these objections was he able to use the character? Well,

1492
01:20:24,399 --> 01:20:27,279
they overruled him on all those can he you know

1493
01:20:27,319 --> 01:20:30,680
the plan and the scheme. Can you do that? These

1494
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,680
other issues of you've had these two doctors that had

1495
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,279
an outside issue with each other? Was that a problem?

1496
01:20:36,279 --> 01:20:39,239
You know nothing, and it has to be relevant, it

1497
01:20:39,279 --> 01:20:41,880
has to be material, So they can be minor errors.

1498
01:20:42,239 --> 01:20:44,520
Maybe that shouldn't happen, but is that really an error

1499
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:47,199
that's going to cause this whole trial to be upended?

1500
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,199
And it continually gets denied, denied. Then he starts doing

1501
01:20:51,279 --> 01:20:56,159
and this is all through nineteen fourteen, nineteen fourteen, back

1502
01:20:56,239 --> 01:21:00,279
in November. He then goes up and tries to puts

1503
01:21:00,279 --> 01:21:02,880
this rid of air to the Supreme Court of the

1504
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:06,600
United States through the district court. They deny him. Then

1505
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:09,960
he comes back and his last ditch effort is for

1506
01:21:10,119 --> 01:21:14,720
habeas corpus. So this is he filed against the jailer.

1507
01:21:15,119 --> 01:21:18,079
Magnum was his name, and you file it for like, look,

1508
01:21:18,119 --> 01:21:21,239
I'm illegally imprisoned for something. You don't even have jurisdiction

1509
01:21:21,319 --> 01:21:24,199
to do this. It should be letting me loose, letting

1510
01:21:24,239 --> 01:21:28,319
me free, based on the fact that he due process

1511
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:33,279
Fourteenth Amendment. Now, and it was oh mob, mob rule.

1512
01:21:33,319 --> 01:21:36,359
The mob was so enveloped that you know, singing Christian

1513
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,600
songs outside my window that I had no choice, but

1514
01:21:40,239 --> 01:21:44,760
they I didn't get due process. So Supreme Court of

1515
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:49,880
Georgia turns him down, and that one goes finally gets accepted.

1516
01:21:50,359 --> 01:21:53,239
It goes up to the Supreme Court, and to me,

1517
01:21:53,359 --> 01:21:57,560
that one's somewhat fascinating one. They reject him on the

1518
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:01,199
lowersh courts for saying, if you didn't bring this issue

1519
01:22:01,279 --> 01:22:04,119
up the first time, you've lost it. You've waived it.

1520
01:22:04,199 --> 01:22:05,920
As a matter of fact, it says here that you're

1521
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:08,920
supposed to bring all known issues. You lost your chance

1522
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,159
for doing a new trial. You missed it there. You

1523
01:22:11,199 --> 01:22:12,960
should have brought this fact up that you were not

1524
01:22:13,199 --> 01:22:16,159
in the courtroom at the first end time. Now with

1525
01:22:16,239 --> 01:22:21,119
that said, the fourteenth Amendment, as we talk about it's

1526
01:22:21,319 --> 01:22:24,399
it's at the time. Sub I don't know how well

1527
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:26,560
you are on the fourteenth. There are listeners of it.

1528
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:27,239
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good.

1529
01:22:27,399 --> 01:22:30,279
Speaker 2: Fourteenth Yeah, okay, So you know fourteenth Amendment, which the

1530
01:22:30,399 --> 01:22:33,520
NI Nation of involn does take into account, which is

1531
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:35,600
what was the purpose of this in the first place.

1532
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:37,880
It was really to help black men be able to

1533
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:39,800
have the right to vote. That was one of them,

1534
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:42,760
and now you're trying to use it against him, basically,

1535
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,239
for this guy that's trying to string up a black man.

1536
01:22:45,319 --> 01:22:47,239
You know, Nation of in Islam. Book didn't like that.

1537
01:22:47,279 --> 01:22:50,239
I don't know if that's really great correlation. But what

1538
01:22:50,319 --> 01:22:52,000
you had here, all the cases at this time, there

1539
01:22:52,039 --> 01:22:54,279
wasn't subt to the due process. It was just procedural

1540
01:22:54,359 --> 01:22:57,319
due process, if they could even be applied at all.

1541
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:01,439
And they take it up the Supreme Court and they say,

1542
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:05,560
with this in mind, is this mob so unruly that

1543
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:09,800
we couldn't have given you due process? The interesting part

1544
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:12,439
about that one, Pete, is that there's this guy William Burns,

1545
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:14,199
and I think maybe you've heard about him. He was

1546
01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:19,039
a private investigator that hundreds of thousands of dollars from

1547
01:23:19,119 --> 01:23:21,840
a lot of lobbyists and people in the North to

1548
01:23:22,079 --> 01:23:25,199
go through and find the real killer. Now, what he

1549
01:23:25,319 --> 01:23:27,760
ended up doing was he did drag the dollar bill

1550
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:29,960
through the trailer park. He got a bunch of people

1551
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,640
to assign affidavits, fake affidavits. I mean, there was a

1552
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:36,640
bunch of lives he got. He just got obliterated himself

1553
01:23:37,119 --> 01:23:41,199
in the South because Dorsey, the solicitor said, we're not

1554
01:23:41,239 --> 01:23:43,239
going to have this, So they went after a lot

1555
01:23:43,239 --> 01:23:46,079
of you know, he's like, here's a here's an affidavit

1556
01:23:46,199 --> 01:23:49,279
saying that this guy on the jury was making comments,

1557
01:23:49,319 --> 01:23:52,199
you know about kill the Jews. Well, anyway, a lot

1558
01:23:52,199 --> 01:23:54,600
of this stuff was filed in the rit of air.

1559
01:23:55,279 --> 01:23:58,039
Now the Supreme Court actually mentions that in their order,

1560
01:23:58,079 --> 01:24:00,720
which and which is It's interesting you have a lot

1561
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:04,159
of you know, affidavits pointing the finger elsewhere, but you

1562
01:24:04,199 --> 01:24:08,000
didn't include him with your Supreme Court brief. So they decided, Okay,

1563
01:24:08,039 --> 01:24:10,439
this stuff is such bullshit, I can't actually include it

1564
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,560
in there. Anyway. There were two dissenters on the Supreme

1565
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:16,359
Court the dude knock him down. They say that the

1566
01:24:16,399 --> 01:24:20,600
mob wasn't to the point. There was a problem. As

1567
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:24,039
far as due process goes, it's procedural, which is, we're

1568
01:24:24,079 --> 01:24:27,119
only as the Fed's here with the fourteenth Amendment, we're

1569
01:24:27,279 --> 01:24:31,479
enforcing due process as what the state would be privileges

1570
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:34,119
and immuony metis of the state, not what we think

1571
01:24:34,279 --> 01:24:37,199
due process is from the Fed. So the Fifth Amendment,

1572
01:24:37,319 --> 01:24:40,159
So your due process, whatever it was there, you had

1573
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:43,000
a waiver. You're good, We're fine. We're not going to

1574
01:24:43,039 --> 01:24:45,319
say that it's any issue, we're not going to overrule you.

1575
01:24:46,159 --> 01:24:50,520
Interesting Oliver Wendell Holmes, famous Supreme Court justice who made

1576
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:54,600
that stupid line fire in a Kkaudit theater. He did dissent.

1577
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,680
He didn't talk anything about the fourteenth Amendment. He just said, look,

1578
01:24:58,039 --> 01:25:00,680
the crowd seemed to be unruly and there you should

1579
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:04,600
have had a better chance at this. The great thing, though, Pete,

1580
01:25:05,119 --> 01:25:08,600
all the filings, a lot of it's not like any

1581
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:12,840
of these rulings were short sighted. They took a lot

1582
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,159
of time. There's a lot of writing in there, and

1583
01:25:15,399 --> 01:25:18,159
I think they I think personally, going through all the stuff,

1584
01:25:18,159 --> 01:25:20,920
that they came out with the right ruling. The great

1585
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,319
thing about this is that you know, this this four

1586
01:25:23,359 --> 01:25:26,319
day or four week trial, longest one that they had had,

1587
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:29,600
all this pleadings, all these appeals that they have, they

1588
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:32,920
couldn't find any air strong enough to give them a

1589
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,039
new trial, even the ones that did dissent, because they

1590
01:25:35,039 --> 01:25:37,199
weren't all you know, seven. I think there was a

1591
01:25:37,239 --> 01:25:40,600
seven to two on the Supreme Court, the Georgia Supreme Court.

1592
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,439
Not everyone was unanimous on all of those. Even the

1593
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:46,960
descents though they're always like, eh, maybe maybe he could

1594
01:25:47,039 --> 01:25:49,079
give this to him. But they weren't. They weren't definitive

1595
01:25:49,399 --> 01:25:55,199
forthright in their taking. So the Supreme Court says overrules him,

1596
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:59,399
and he's sentenced to death, and then we have a

1597
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,079
Governor Slayton issue going on.

1598
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,720
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we want to if we want to

1599
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:08,199
sort of cut it there to save for part three,

1600
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:11,439
or do you think we can get into anything else

1601
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:14,760
and be coherent in part three?

1602
01:26:16,279 --> 01:26:18,880
Speaker 2: We we could cut it if you want. Let me

1603
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:22,439
ask you that, do you have any questions about these things?

1604
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:27,399
Speaker 1: I mean, admittedly, my what I know of court law

1605
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:30,520
is I used to read a lot of decisions, but

1606
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:35,239
mostly from like Supreme Court decisions. I was obsessed with

1607
01:26:35,279 --> 01:26:38,159
Ashwander for a long time because I thought that that

1608
01:26:38,319 --> 01:26:42,399
was like the a lot of the decisions around the

1609
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:45,039
New Deal, because I thought that was like the turn

1610
01:26:45,079 --> 01:26:48,720
of everything. That's when the whole country just basically went

1611
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:52,680
up and smoked. But yeah, it doesn't seem to me, like,

1612
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:57,880
I mean, well, in the trial itself, is it just

1613
01:26:58,039 --> 01:27:01,119
that they get they love and they were like, okay,

1614
01:27:01,199 --> 01:27:05,039
he is the only one who had opportunity to do it,

1615
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:10,159
And combined with the fact that Conley I guess on

1616
01:27:10,199 --> 01:27:12,880
the stand is basically telling him about the money, telling

1617
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:14,760
him about is that? What does it?

1618
01:27:16,279 --> 01:27:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think yeah, I think it's the full breadth

1619
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:23,520
of everything, this Stull story, which is Conley. They find

1620
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:26,800
him to believable, although it's over and over and over.

1621
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:29,840
They they even had the one point they grouped about

1622
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,760
ten witnesses and they just said they all testified that

1623
01:27:35,359 --> 01:27:39,960
Jim Conley as a as a Negro couldn't be believed

1624
01:27:40,039 --> 01:27:44,760
under oath. So they really went hard at at that.

1625
01:27:45,199 --> 01:27:49,079
But yes, he testified. I think he was believable. The

1626
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:53,640
fact that Leo Frank's story had changed, and then the

1627
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:55,199
fact that they were able to bring out in the

1628
01:27:55,239 --> 01:27:57,760
trial a lot of these little things where he was trying.

1629
01:27:58,039 --> 01:28:01,560
It was obvious he was trying to aim either Newt

1630
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:04,880
Lee or this James Gant, and he never took the

1631
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:07,760
opportunity to do the same to Jim Connolly. I think

1632
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,439
that was so powerful that there was this miss White

1633
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:14,239
who saw him in the in the factory, that he's

1634
01:28:14,279 --> 01:28:17,840
there a week later, still hanging around, you know, talking.

1635
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:21,199
It blows everyone's mind that this black man would not

1636
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:25,000
just take off if he had he had actually done that,

1637
01:28:25,239 --> 01:28:28,600
So with that and the fact that because I don't

1638
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,760
think I think the facts themselves dealt with this enough.

1639
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:33,560
Girls came up and said, Yeah, he was creepy, he

1640
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:35,000
was trying to touch me, he was looking through the

1641
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,960
peep hole. Uh, he had been doing these exact things

1642
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:40,920
that Leo fran Jim Colmley says he was going to

1643
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:44,800
do U and then just there's a gruesome murder possible

1644
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:46,159
rape going involved there.

1645
01:28:46,399 --> 01:28:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you think the Supreme Court, like Thomas says,

1646
01:28:50,319 --> 01:28:52,960
that Oliver Weengleholmes gets gets a bad rap on a

1647
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:56,279
lot of things. Do you think that that was just

1648
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:03,039
his not realizing that the you that really anti Semitism

1649
01:29:03,079 --> 01:29:06,079
had anything to do with this trial. That was Holmes

1650
01:29:06,159 --> 01:29:09,239
just like a knee jerk reaction or was it just

1651
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:10,880
his contrarian nature?

1652
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:14,079
Speaker 2: Very well may have been. Look as far as Oliver

1653
01:29:14,119 --> 01:29:16,159
Wendell Holmes, Yeah, I brought up the fire in the

1654
01:29:16,159 --> 01:29:18,600
crowded theater, which is bad, but he's he's not bad

1655
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:21,119
on all of his decisions. So you know, it's a

1656
01:29:21,239 --> 01:29:23,079
kind of a mixed bag. And and by the way,

1657
01:29:23,239 --> 01:29:28,279
I think a lot of judicial judicial uh uh temperament

1658
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:30,399
and when you look back on it has to deal

1659
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:32,680
with kind of where you are now. And you know,

1660
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:35,600
as an example, you know, I look back through all

1661
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:39,239
the different story as a matter of fact, Judge Justice story,

1662
01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:40,840
I think he's a piece of shit, you know, kind

1663
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:43,720
of the things. It depends on where your personal view

1664
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,920
is and how you see these people. Uh. I even

1665
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:49,319
him though, he was he was reserved on a lot

1666
01:29:49,319 --> 01:29:51,800
of this stuff, and he just said, look, it seems

1667
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,199
to be the mob trip the problem though, And this

1668
01:29:54,279 --> 01:29:56,760
is what's amazing, is you know, I think Brandeis was

1669
01:29:56,800 --> 01:29:59,640
the first Jewish member of the Supreme Court. He wasn't

1670
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,520
coming on there yet. That was still to be coming

1671
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:04,600
on a few years. I think it was nineteen seventeen,

1672
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,279
I want to say, so I could be wrong, check

1673
01:30:07,319 --> 01:30:09,079
me out on that, but he was. He definitely wasn't

1674
01:30:09,079 --> 01:30:14,319
on at this point. The overwhelming feeling of the North

1675
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:17,520
and all the news, you couldn't avoid this case. So

1676
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,960
I'm sure the Supreme Court justices had read stuff, and

1677
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,079
the New York Times was pumping out what they say.

1678
01:30:23,119 --> 01:30:25,760
There was more words written about Jim Conley in the

1679
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:30,119
New York Times than about WDD boys. So you know,

1680
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,159
that's extreme for even the New York times at the time,

1681
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:36,960
so you can't help but think that they had been

1682
01:30:37,079 --> 01:30:40,840
somewhat influenced because you now had two years from the

1683
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,399
time of the actual guilty to the when the Supreme

1684
01:30:44,399 --> 01:30:47,079
Court's going in and doing this for all the papers

1685
01:30:47,079 --> 01:30:50,960
to really really ramp up the anti Semitic trope that

1686
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:52,359
they were pushing out.

1687
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:55,039
Speaker 1: All right, well, then I guess we'll wrap it up

1688
01:30:55,079 --> 01:30:59,520
there and next time we well, I mean obviously the lynching,

1689
01:31:00,079 --> 01:31:03,199
but also we can start getting into the press and

1690
01:31:03,279 --> 01:31:06,760
just exactly how much the press and how much how

1691
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:10,920
much came from the north, Like you said, all the

1692
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:14,479
words were written, but also talk about the governor who

1693
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:19,720
looks like he went on a world tour.

1694
01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 2: After I think he was promised a lot.

1695
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:29,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and yeah. And one thing that a mistake

1696
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:32,199
that I made and I didn't know until recently, was

1697
01:31:32,279 --> 01:31:34,960
that I guess we'll talk about this next, is that

1698
01:31:35,319 --> 01:31:38,359
he didn't commute his sentence. He commuted his death sentence.

1699
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 2: Yes, you're right, he even had some skepticism as to

1700
01:31:43,039 --> 01:31:46,399
what he was committed it to life in prison, which

1701
01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:49,079
still means okay, I mean that you know, you might

1702
01:31:49,159 --> 01:31:52,199
have the death sentence, but you least have life in prison,

1703
01:31:52,279 --> 01:31:53,119
so yeah, I agree.

1704
01:31:53,199 --> 01:31:56,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we can also on the next one talk

1705
01:31:56,439 --> 01:32:00,359
about what could like, I don't trying to get into

1706
01:32:00,359 --> 01:32:02,359
the mind of somebody who's in a lunch mob, is

1707
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:06,399
uh it is. It could be damaging to one soul,

1708
01:32:07,119 --> 01:32:11,520
but the what the idea may have been around somebody

1709
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:14,279
who has now a life sentence and is alive and

1710
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:17,920
is there you know, there is still a chance of

1711
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:22,079
a you gotta have a presidential commutation something like that,

1712
01:32:22,359 --> 01:32:25,479
so you know, I know that after I guess after

1713
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:28,399
you go to the Supreme Court, you can't you can't

1714
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:31,000
get a pardon a president. Yeah.

1715
01:32:31,079 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, the president could only have even now I mean,

1716
01:32:34,039 --> 01:32:36,439
you know, even the way we're mixing things in uh,

1717
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:39,399
the president can only pardon federal crimes, so you know

1718
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:41,600
this is state crime. You know he was screwed in

1719
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:42,039
that sense.

1720
01:32:42,399 --> 01:32:46,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, Well good, all right. I think last

1721
01:32:46,159 --> 01:32:49,000
time you said, if anybody wants to find any find

1722
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:51,199
your work at Tyler, go to your Twitter account at

1723
01:32:51,199 --> 01:32:51,960
Tyler Yankee.

1724
01:32:52,199 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 2: That's correct.

1725
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks ball, All right, man, Well until the next time,

1726
01:32:56,399 --> 01:33:01,079
can't wait, yep, take care. I want to welcome everyone

1727
01:33:01,079 --> 01:33:03,640
back to the Peak and Yona show. To wrap this

1728
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:05,039
up now, Tyler, how are you doing.

1729
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:07,439
Speaker 2: I'm doing great, Pete. Nice to talk to you in

1730
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:08,319
a time of peace.

1731
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:12,720
Speaker 1: Yeah out whoops.

1732
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:15,560
Speaker 2: People will look back this at a few years and say, excuse.

1733
01:33:15,239 --> 01:33:18,399
Speaker 1: Me, Yeah, what's what are they talking about? What was

1734
01:33:18,399 --> 01:33:24,079
happening when when they recorded this? So basically ended on

1735
01:33:24,119 --> 01:33:28,680
the guilty verdict last time and the appeals. He talked

1736
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:34,000
about the appeals and I guess the commutation of the

1737
01:33:35,359 --> 01:33:38,680
of the death sentence comes first. But before we do that,

1738
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:45,439
probably getting into the level of I mean, what the

1739
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:49,520
media did and the media blitz. So why don't you

1740
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:50,439
talk a little bit about that?

1741
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me let me start. I found this quote.

1742
01:33:53,079 --> 01:33:57,239
This guy, Leonard Dinnerstein. He was an author. He wrote

1743
01:33:57,239 --> 01:33:59,960
a book about Leo frank and I think for his dissertation,

1744
01:34:00,079 --> 01:34:03,159
and then he's updated a bunch of times now he's

1745
01:34:03,199 --> 01:34:05,840
a scholar. But here here, I just thought this was

1746
01:34:06,319 --> 01:34:07,800
I found this last night and I just thought this

1747
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:12,119
was great. So this is how he acknowledges anti Semitism.

1748
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:16,920
He said that in the Anti says anti Semitism in Atlanta.

1749
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:22,000
Quote was evident in the widespread acceptance of negro Jim

1750
01:34:22,199 --> 01:34:25,239
Conley's testimony. I mean, if that doesn't say at all,

1751
01:34:25,319 --> 01:34:27,760
it's like and then kind of where we're at today

1752
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:31,239
as well, which is you go against our narrative no

1753
01:34:31,239 --> 01:34:34,439
matter what it is, you can't actually have a principled disagreement.

1754
01:34:35,079 --> 01:34:35,359
Speaker 1: Uh.

1755
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:38,640
Speaker 2: And and this is a lesser man, this Negro. Therefore,

1756
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:42,319
since you accepted his testimony, we are and then you're

1757
01:34:42,359 --> 01:34:44,840
anti Semitic. That's that's the whole process.

1758
01:34:45,199 --> 01:34:48,359
Speaker 1: Well, something that we've definitely seen in the past past

1759
01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:56,079
week is that if you if you even mention, you know,

1760
01:34:56,119 --> 01:34:58,960
you're like, oh, wow, civilians died. I mean, that's that's

1761
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:01,199
freaking horrible. Well, civilians are going to die on the

1762
01:35:01,199 --> 01:35:05,039
other side as well. It's either one hundred percent you

1763
01:35:05,119 --> 01:35:08,800
are for Israel and you are you are for the Zionists,

1764
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:12,640
or you are against them. And we saw that with

1765
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:19,520
Tucker when Tucker Carlson was interviewing Vivek and Ben Shapiro

1766
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:26,079
did a completely insane rant commenting on it where he

1767
01:35:26,199 --> 01:35:30,000
made zero sense. I mean he he's there was no

1768
01:35:30,079 --> 01:35:33,880
facts and logic in there at all. It was emotion

1769
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:41,000
and bloodlust. And yeah, so I think we know this,

1770
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:44,319
we can see this in our current day that if

1771
01:35:44,319 --> 01:35:51,640
you are not one hundred percent behind Jews or Zionists,

1772
01:35:52,159 --> 01:35:56,239
you are you're anti Semitic. And you know it's yeah,

1773
01:35:56,239 --> 01:35:57,920
I think people, I think a lot of people in

1774
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:00,239
the last few days have come to accept the fact

1775
01:36:00,279 --> 01:36:01,520
that they're anti Semitic.

1776
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:06,880
Speaker 2: Well, and and then I'd say that because that ties

1777
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:08,920
into kind of where the ad L is now and

1778
01:36:09,119 --> 01:36:10,560
a lot of the stuff that we had with the

1779
01:36:11,039 --> 01:36:13,520
press at the time. So it's just an important and

1780
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:15,199
by the way, my journey from this, we don't need

1781
01:36:15,199 --> 01:36:17,960
to get too personal into it, which is I've used

1782
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,199
to bet and be more in the Ben Shapiro camp.

1783
01:36:20,359 --> 01:36:24,119
You know, I'm not a Jewish person. I'm religious, you know,

1784
01:36:24,159 --> 01:36:25,920
you think that the Christians have to support that kind

1785
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:28,560
of thing. And it was along the lines of I

1786
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:30,760
remember telling someone how I didn't like Jimmy Carter, and

1787
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:33,000
I'm like, he's anti Semitic because he wrote some things

1788
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:35,520
pro Palestine. You know, it's kind of the cudgel that

1789
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:38,880
you use, and it shouldn't be done that way anyway,

1790
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:42,600
we can we can move on from that part. Okay, good, okay,

1791
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,520
So let's talk about what we didn't really get into

1792
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,119
too much. We haven't we skirted around a bunch? Is

1793
01:36:48,319 --> 01:36:52,720
the news and the way that the press really took

1794
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:56,119
this into account. Okay, And with that in mind, did

1795
01:36:56,119 --> 01:36:58,319
they come into it right away. No, It took a

1796
01:36:58,319 --> 01:37:01,000
little bit of time for some of these the Northern

1797
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:04,479
Jewish families and stuff, to really push into this. It

1798
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:08,279
started with Albert Lasker. Okay, Albert Lasker. Actually it's his

1799
01:37:08,399 --> 01:37:13,319
father who did find this out yesterday. He was a

1800
01:37:13,399 --> 01:37:17,319
Confederate himself, you know, slave owning family that they had

1801
01:37:17,359 --> 01:37:19,960
down there, and I think he was from Texas originally.

1802
01:37:20,039 --> 01:37:22,880
So this Albert Lasker is the head of Lord and Thomas.

1803
01:37:23,279 --> 01:37:25,520
He's kind of like what they called him, the unchallenged

1804
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:29,680
monarch of American consumer advertising, the founder of modern advertising.

1805
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:31,920
You think of all these things that happened, he was

1806
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:34,000
the man that really pushed this, you know, kind of

1807
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:37,199
a change in nineteen thirteen with some of that. So

1808
01:37:37,239 --> 01:37:39,680
he comes into prominence there. His dad said, hey, you

1809
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:41,000
got to take a look at this, and so he

1810
01:37:41,119 --> 01:37:46,000
starts to take interest. A lot of the press did

1811
01:37:46,039 --> 01:37:48,960
come into it right near the trial. You know, William

1812
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:52,119
randolp Hurst threw someone down there for his newspapers and

1813
01:37:52,239 --> 01:37:55,680
there is some reporting, you know, claims on some books

1814
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:59,600
and stuff that the news, the emphasis by the North

1815
01:38:00,119 --> 01:38:04,119
changed the trial because they couldn't come out as anti

1816
01:38:04,199 --> 01:38:06,479
black as they really wanted to do. You know, we've

1817
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,399
shown things here they definitely were, so they said they

1818
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:12,880
kurttailed that some. However, the Nation of Benzob Islam book

1819
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:16,680
really shows how much Laskar himself, you know, a man

1820
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:19,399
mostly of the South, although he lives now in Chicago,

1821
01:38:20,359 --> 01:38:23,840
Adolph Ox he was now running the New York Times,

1822
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,000
but he was actually a Southern or two. They had strong,

1823
01:38:26,159 --> 01:38:31,800
strong feelings about slavery the black man. They weren't any better,

1824
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:33,680
So I don't know that that necessarily played into it,

1825
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:37,439
but it drew some interest. And there still was a

1826
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:39,600
little bit in the North, some of this pretension that

1827
01:38:39,840 --> 01:38:42,880
we're going to give blacks at least their due, so

1828
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:46,520
they had to restrain that a little bit. Albert Laskar,

1829
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:50,279
he really pushes this and the key for him so

1830
01:38:50,279 --> 01:38:52,479
they come in mostly after the trial. But the key

1831
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:54,960
for him was he had a ton of money. He

1832
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:56,800
put over one hundred and twenty thousand dollars of his

1833
01:38:56,880 --> 01:38:59,680
own money in there nineteen thirteen dollars. So I think

1834
01:39:00,399 --> 01:39:03,239
the book they translated that to like two point nine

1835
01:39:03,319 --> 01:39:06,159
and twenty sixteen, still a lot of money even for

1836
01:39:06,199 --> 01:39:09,239
today of his personal money. But the big thing he

1837
01:39:09,319 --> 01:39:13,479
had was connections. And then he had poll So think

1838
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:16,439
of the guy that's the advertiser, and you're now running

1839
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:21,079
a newspaper, and how does your newspaper thrive on advertising?

1840
01:39:21,399 --> 01:39:24,439
If this guy wants one direction for you to go,

1841
01:39:25,359 --> 01:39:28,079
you might be going that way. You might start changing

1842
01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:31,279
your attitude or your editorials, the way your news stories

1843
01:39:31,319 --> 01:39:33,439
are simply by the fact that you're going to get

1844
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:37,079
better advertising through Albert Lasker. So that was one big

1845
01:39:37,399 --> 01:39:39,720
thing he had what was interesting, And I'll get right

1846
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:43,159
to this on him, so he said, didn't give you

1847
01:39:43,199 --> 01:39:46,159
this quote. Here in his biography realed that upon his

1848
01:39:46,239 --> 01:39:50,119
first personal meeting with Frank Leo Frank, he preserved he

1849
01:39:50,239 --> 01:39:54,439
perceived him as quote a pervert and a disgusting individual,

1850
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:57,439
so much that he even hoped that he managed that

1851
01:39:57,479 --> 01:39:59,920
if Frank managed to get free, the latter would quickly

1852
01:40:00,399 --> 01:40:04,600
perish in some accident. Furthermore, in his private correspondence, he

1853
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,680
freely admitted that a large fraction of the massive funding

1854
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:10,000
that he and his numerous and other wealthy Jews from

1855
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:13,960
across the country providing had been spent on perjured testimony,

1856
01:40:14,239 --> 01:40:17,720
and there was also strong hints that he explored bribing

1857
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:21,720
various judges. Given these facts, Laskar and Frank's other major

1858
01:40:21,720 --> 01:40:25,960
backers were clearly guilty of serious felonies and could have

1859
01:40:26,039 --> 01:40:29,720
received lengthy prison terms for their illegal contact. So once

1860
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:31,479
again we talked about the money. That was the big

1861
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:35,079
thing from the trial till the pills was going through

1862
01:40:35,119 --> 01:40:39,880
with this Burns investigator trying to change the testimony. Lot okay,

1863
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:42,840
So Albert Lasker. He then brings in Lewis Marshall. Lewis

1864
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:47,000
Marshall was the American Jewish Committee President. He was an attorney.

1865
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:50,039
He was really well connected. Some say he might have

1866
01:40:50,159 --> 01:40:55,119
been the most highest praised or thought of prominent. I

1867
01:40:55,119 --> 01:40:56,880
guess would be the word Jewish man in the country

1868
01:40:56,920 --> 01:41:00,399
at the time. He had backdoor dealings with scope. He

1869
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:05,159
was He knew Woodrow Wilson. He became the lead attorney

1870
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:07,920
for the Leo Frank after the trial and through all

1871
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:11,319
the stuff, so his connections were huge as well. Along

1872
01:41:11,359 --> 01:41:15,720
with Laskar, they then recruited al Adolph Ox adaf Ox.

1873
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:17,760
At the time, he was from the South, but he

1874
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:21,239
was now the owner of the New York Times. This

1875
01:41:21,319 --> 01:41:23,960
guy he liked. He liked to put down the blacks

1876
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:26,279
as well. But he really got involved in this thing.

1877
01:41:26,319 --> 01:41:30,000
And I just wonder what's interesting in here? Once again, well,

1878
01:41:30,039 --> 01:41:34,600
we'll say another thing. He had a quote here Lasker

1879
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:37,600
convinced of his innocense. No, at no point was I

1880
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:41,760
convinced of his innocence. He also said, on the death

1881
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:43,560
of Frank, I'm sure that it was a relief to

1882
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:48,520
mister Ox, who Frank lynched? Who have Frank lynched? And

1883
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,439
out of the way. I have felt for some time

1884
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:53,079
that he secretly despised Frank. That's what one person said

1885
01:41:53,399 --> 01:41:56,520
of Albert Ox after he was done. So these guys

1886
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:58,439
did not like him, they said, And I have some

1887
01:41:58,479 --> 01:41:59,840
other quotes we could kind of go through as to

1888
01:42:00,159 --> 01:42:02,920
there a whole feeling was They also then brought in

1889
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:07,439
Jacob Shift. Jacob Schiff was a Wall Street financier at

1890
01:42:07,439 --> 01:42:08,760
the time. Shocker.

1891
01:42:09,319 --> 01:42:11,640
Speaker 1: I know, I know who Jacob Schiff is.

1892
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:13,600
Speaker 2: Okay, what do you know about him?

1893
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:19,039
Speaker 1: He financed the Bolshevik or revolution, Okay, well as in Russia,

1894
01:42:19,079 --> 01:42:21,680
I mean to the two and two hundred million dollars.

1895
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:23,359
Do you know how much? Do you know how much

1896
01:42:23,439 --> 01:42:29,600
that was in nineteen early nineteen hundreds money.

1897
01:42:30,039 --> 01:42:33,560
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine how many billion, trillion, two billion, Okay,

1898
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:35,079
there you go, Yeah, that's how much.

1899
01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:40,840
Speaker 1: That's how much. He wanted to get revenge upon the

1900
01:42:41,079 --> 01:42:44,640
uh the Russians for the Palist settlement. Wow.

1901
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:48,079
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting. His connection he started in he was

1902
01:42:48,119 --> 01:42:50,119
a financier. He was helping this as well. But his

1903
01:42:50,159 --> 01:42:53,680
thing actually is he had connections with Georgia and Slayton,

1904
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:57,119
the governor Slayton, and he actually there was a to

1905
01:42:57,239 --> 01:43:02,359
help with the fund some cotton industries, and through the

1906
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:04,600
state there he got I think it was one hundred

1907
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:07,920
and thirty nine million dollar loan for the state of Georgia.

1908
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:10,279
This is right at the time of the commutation. Because

1909
01:43:10,319 --> 01:43:14,199
remember when Judge Slayton commutes and we'll get the spoiler,

1910
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:17,920
when he commutes Leo Frank's sentence. He then gets is

1911
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:20,039
out of office in like a few weeks, if even

1912
01:43:20,039 --> 01:43:27,399
that long. So he then Jacob Schiff tries to through Marshall,

1913
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:30,880
the Attorney, tries to have Slayton because Slayton was an

1914
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:33,880
attorney as well. We'll get to his dealings. Wanted to

1915
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:37,960
have him nominated for Scotus and then actually William Randolp

1916
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,199
Hurst had it even written some things and wanted Slayton

1917
01:43:40,239 --> 01:43:44,199
to be the VP choice for Woodrow Wilson so and

1918
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:47,680
William Randolp Hurst. We're not even really getting to get

1919
01:43:47,720 --> 01:43:49,439
into much of him other than he had a bunch

1920
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:51,880
of connections, a bunch of newspapers, and he was pushing

1921
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:54,920
the same thing once again from advertising. I don't even

1922
01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:57,279
know much. I didn't dig into Hurst. He wasn't as

1923
01:43:57,319 --> 01:44:00,279
interesting to me on some of these some celebrit Is

1924
01:44:00,319 --> 01:44:03,800
that were Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Jane Adams. They all

1925
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:07,960
were pushing for Leo Frank's innocence as we Henry Ford,

1926
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:10,960
that's what That's what I got out of one clip.

1927
01:44:11,039 --> 01:44:13,880
So perhaps perhaps perhaps that's true.

1928
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 1: Interesting man, the man who wrote The International Jew.

1929
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:21,159
Speaker 2: Well maybe maybe maybe at some time later he's like,

1930
01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:24,520
you know what he he wasn't because when did he

1931
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:26,399
write that? Because it was a later, wasn't it.

1932
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:29,000
Speaker 1: I can't remember? But gone keep going all right.

1933
01:44:29,239 --> 01:44:31,279
Speaker 2: Uh one of the best. Look like I said, this

1934
01:44:31,399 --> 01:44:34,359
changed some strategy as far as the thing goes. But

1935
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:36,119
one of the best things that comes out of this.

1936
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:39,560
And once again, like I've said, if you are super

1937
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:42,039
are you're interested in this at all or someone's pushing you.

1938
01:44:42,319 --> 01:44:45,520
The best sources are the original sources. And one of

1939
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:48,199
the guys with some of the best original sources were

1940
01:44:48,239 --> 01:44:50,640
this guy is this guy Thomas E. Watson. He was

1941
01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:52,920
a populist at the time he had it. He was

1942
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:55,560
an attorney. I think he was even a congressman. Uh.

1943
01:44:55,600 --> 01:44:58,760
He ended up starting his own i would say rag,

1944
01:44:58,760 --> 01:45:01,920
but his own newsletter, and he started pushing back on

1945
01:45:01,960 --> 01:45:04,319
the trial. What is interesting when they always talk about

1946
01:45:04,359 --> 01:45:07,880
anti Semitism, they bring up Tom Watson because he kind

1947
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:11,079
of turned that way. But he was mostly anti black

1948
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:15,279
and very anti Catholic, extremely anti Catholic. So when we

1949
01:45:15,319 --> 01:45:17,960
talked earlier about the Cabbage and Mary Fagan, you know,

1950
01:45:18,039 --> 01:45:20,159
being a Catholic girl, this is a guy that's like,

1951
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:23,239
you know, actually, I'm going with him. Plus if you

1952
01:45:23,279 --> 01:45:25,439
do check out his writings and they're all there, you

1953
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:27,800
can still find him. And at the end, maybe I'll

1954
01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:29,520
talk about all some of the sources we have, because

1955
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:31,720
there's some great sources. The way, they put these on audio,

1956
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:35,039
so all his writings are still out there. He did

1957
01:45:35,079 --> 01:45:39,840
not start writing about the trial until after it was over.

1958
01:45:40,439 --> 01:45:43,920
So the anti semitism, because you know, let's say there

1959
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:46,560
was some anti semitism from nineteen thirteen after the trial

1960
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:50,680
to the appeal. Okay, maybe, but does that matter? Did

1961
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:53,399
that really? It doesn't matter for the appills because the

1962
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:56,279
appills were he couldn't get due process because of the

1963
01:45:56,319 --> 01:45:59,640
anti Semitism in the South, So we're just wiping that out.

1964
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:03,000
Tom Watson didn't start his his fervor. In one of

1965
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:05,720
his most famous things, he's called him the pervert Jew.

1966
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:08,159
That's what he's started to call Leal Frank, which is

1967
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:11,159
what Albert Ox thought of him, which is what Albert

1968
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:14,479
I'm sorry adof Ox and Laskar thought of him as well.

1969
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:17,720
So is it of the no, it's by the way,

1970
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:21,600
if you look at his writings, Tom Watson, he's very

1971
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:24,800
he's very good fun to read. I'm not saying I

1972
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:26,840
agree with everything. I'm just saying he's a great writer.

1973
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:30,920
But he wrote in defense of the Jews many times

1974
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:35,640
before the whole trial, so he got and will tie

1975
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:38,760
this in here because Tom Watson is a very strong individual.

1976
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:42,760
The North comes down and even Albert Ox and Lasker's

1977
01:46:42,840 --> 01:46:46,239
talked about later on where they overplayed their hand. We

1978
01:46:46,319 --> 01:46:48,960
came in, we tried to destroy Georgia in a sense,

1979
01:46:49,199 --> 01:46:51,960
and then what happened, and they didn't take this guy seriously.

1980
01:46:52,039 --> 01:46:56,119
Tom Watson happened. Tom Watson happened, and he just eviscerates

1981
01:46:56,159 --> 01:47:00,800
them point by point, recapping the trial. He knows all

1982
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:03,640
the legals jargon, and he knows all the laws from

1983
01:47:03,680 --> 01:47:06,720
down there. He talks about one of them venue they

1984
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:09,039
could have easily because they're like, look, we're in Atlanta.

1985
01:47:09,119 --> 01:47:10,840
We didn't get a fair trial. Okay, you know what

1986
01:47:10,840 --> 01:47:12,199
you could have done. You could have asked for a

1987
01:47:12,279 --> 01:47:14,640
change of venue. You never did that. And he breaks

1988
01:47:14,680 --> 01:47:17,000
down how they could have done that and likelihood of

1989
01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:21,079
actually winning on that and had your trial somewhere other

1990
01:47:21,119 --> 01:47:23,920
than Atlanta. But they were cocky and they thought that

1991
01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:26,079
they would get Leo because we have a black man

1992
01:47:26,119 --> 01:47:30,159
that's going to testify. So Tom Watson happens. The New

1993
01:47:30,239 --> 01:47:32,399
York Times can't even compete with him. He's just he

1994
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:35,239
destroys them. He knows way too much, and he takes

1995
01:47:35,279 --> 01:47:37,960
them on the facts so that to me is in

1996
01:47:38,279 --> 01:47:41,039
his reasoning why he turns on the Jewish people. By

1997
01:47:41,039 --> 01:47:42,800
the way, he had defended them in court. He is

1998
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:46,880
an attorney they advertised in his magazine. None of this

1999
01:47:47,079 --> 01:47:51,159
anti Jewish sentiment came about during the trial. Once again,

2000
01:47:51,159 --> 01:47:53,439
it's just not evident in any of the writings. So

2001
01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:55,720
that just doesn't happen anyway. So that's kind of the

2002
01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:59,119
news story around there. As far as the newspaper's influence.

2003
01:48:00,239 --> 01:48:03,359
One other thing, I'd say it real quick here. Seven

2004
01:48:03,399 --> 01:48:07,039
months before he's killed, the New York Times writes an

2005
01:48:07,119 --> 01:48:11,239
article about they expect him to be lynched at some point,

2006
01:48:11,319 --> 01:48:13,279
or they're saying that's going to happen, and they call

2007
01:48:13,359 --> 01:48:16,199
this group the Night We've heard it's an anonymous source,

2008
01:48:16,399 --> 01:48:20,640
the Knights of Mary Fagin, and it comes to one

2009
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:22,520
and by the way, that's one of the best conspiracies.

2010
01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:24,880
And we'll get to the end. Anything you wanted to

2011
01:48:24,880 --> 01:48:26,119
say about the news stuff.

2012
01:48:27,119 --> 01:48:35,159
Speaker 1: Now, let's get into Slayton and what most likely caused

2013
01:48:35,239 --> 01:48:36,880
him to commute the death signs.

2014
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:38,640
Speaker 2: Right, So one of the first things I did, by

2015
01:48:38,680 --> 01:48:41,439
the way, when I started reading all this, because it's

2016
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:44,199
twenty eight pages, the easiest thing to do to kind

2017
01:48:44,199 --> 01:48:46,960
of get a breadth of this is you read Governor

2018
01:48:47,079 --> 01:48:53,119
Slayton's commutation report. It breaks down the facts, it says everything.

2019
01:48:53,159 --> 01:48:57,640
And I came from that and my first thought was, oh, yeah,

2020
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:00,159
Jim Conley is just a disgusting person. He's not He's

2021
01:49:00,199 --> 01:49:03,079
not that great. And then you go through all the

2022
01:49:03,119 --> 01:49:06,680
facts of it and you kind of backtrack and you go, Okay,

2023
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:08,960
you know what, he was a product of his times.

2024
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:11,520
I don't think he was all that bad. But Governor

2025
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:15,079
Slayton did commute the sentence, and he conducted like a

2026
01:49:15,119 --> 01:49:19,720
four or five day inquiry. He had people testify again.

2027
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:20,880
Speaker 1: You know.

2028
01:49:21,159 --> 01:49:23,760
Speaker 2: Dorsey, the prosecutor, was like, look, this is BS. We've

2029
01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:27,000
already done this, you know. But Slayton wanted to do this.

2030
01:49:27,039 --> 01:49:29,199
He said it was the right thing to do, and

2031
01:49:29,239 --> 01:49:31,520
in the end he decided to commute the sentence from

2032
01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:35,039
life in prison to I'm sorry, to life in prison

2033
01:49:35,119 --> 01:49:39,199
from hanging. And we'll get to his connections. But here's

2034
01:49:39,279 --> 01:49:42,640
what he found though still in his commutation, there was

2035
01:49:42,680 --> 01:49:45,920
no error of law, there was sufficient evidence to sustain

2036
01:49:45,960 --> 01:49:50,520
the verdict. He felt like an imprisonment represented justice also

2037
01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:55,600
reserved for convicted murderers. As far as the antisemitic mob,

2038
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:58,840
he said, no such attack was made and none was contemplated.

2039
01:49:59,399 --> 01:50:02,520
He said Jews were revered and contributed greatly to the

2040
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:08,439
development of slavery dependent Jim Crow state, I look, you

2041
01:50:08,479 --> 01:50:09,840
got it. You got to do this because now you

2042
01:50:10,279 --> 01:50:13,000
look at the ADL and there and I'll play we'll

2043
01:50:13,039 --> 01:50:15,479
get to that oay. He made his commutation based on

2044
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:18,159
what he considered new evidence, much of which was produced

2045
01:50:18,159 --> 01:50:21,000
by the disgraced detective William J. Burns, who we've talked

2046
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:25,840
about ox Lasker all said they perjured people up and

2047
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:28,039
down the state of Georgia trying to get this thing.

2048
01:50:28,119 --> 01:50:30,720
So that was his of Connolly, the black guy. He said,

2049
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:33,800
the evidence shows that Conley was as depraved and lettrous

2050
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:37,479
a negro as ever lived in Georgia. There you go,

2051
01:50:37,720 --> 01:50:40,119
by the way, I don't know if we finished this,

2052
01:50:40,199 --> 01:50:44,880
which is Jim Conley does get convicted for like an

2053
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:47,920
accessory after the fact, spends a year in jail for

2054
01:50:48,319 --> 01:50:52,479
his crime, and dies, you know, ripe old age. I

2055
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:54,920
think in the nineteen forties, nineteen sixties something like that

2056
01:50:55,560 --> 01:51:00,359
never hit the news wires again for crimes which if

2057
01:51:00,359 --> 01:51:03,239
he was this disgusting sexual pervert. By the way, that

2058
01:51:03,319 --> 01:51:06,239
movie I saw in the nineteen eighty eight one he is,

2059
01:51:06,680 --> 01:51:09,159
he's like gallam in a cell and this black lady

2060
01:51:09,239 --> 01:51:11,800
is there and he's he's almost like jerking off because

2061
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:15,600
he's just so they show him as just this lascivious,

2062
01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:18,920
over sexed person. It's it's wild.

2063
01:51:19,279 --> 01:51:22,239
Speaker 1: It's wild. Yeah, not shocked to me. Who made that?

2064
01:51:22,319 --> 01:51:29,960
Speaker 2: Hollywood, right, Bob Lemon, Bob Lennon, Bob Lemon. He was

2065
01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:33,479
the old guy, the dirty, grumpy old man.

2066
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:35,840
Speaker 1: Is that his name, Jack Lemon?

2067
01:51:36,159 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 2: Jack Lemon? Sorry, he played Slayton. And by the way,

2068
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:42,840
there's an old movie in the sixties where Walter Mathel

2069
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:45,560
plays Slayton. So those guys team up to play the

2070
01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:48,079
same guy and then later on they're grumpy old men.

2071
01:51:48,119 --> 01:51:50,800
Speaker 1: The original Well, weren't they the original couple too?

2072
01:51:50,840 --> 01:51:54,520
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yes, so they just had once again they.

2073
01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:57,920
Speaker 1: Were yeah, and I think Charles Dutton actually played Charles E.

2074
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:01,439
Speaker 2: Dutton was the yes, the black guy. Yeah, it's it's

2075
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:03,439
it's wild, all right.

2076
01:52:03,560 --> 01:52:06,920
Speaker 1: So commutation of the death sentence.

2077
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:12,239
Speaker 2: And by the way, I just remembered something. Albert Ox

2078
01:52:12,520 --> 01:52:15,119
and some of the they decide to do run a

2079
01:52:15,159 --> 01:52:18,239
portrayal of the crimes at one point. So they have

2080
01:52:18,359 --> 01:52:20,680
actors and they do all this stuff. And I always

2081
01:52:20,680 --> 01:52:22,960
find this funny because if you've ever seen Birth of

2082
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:24,760
a Nation, they like to do this too, which is,

2083
01:52:25,039 --> 01:52:27,279
you can't use a black man to portray a black man.

2084
01:52:27,319 --> 01:52:30,119
You use a white person in blackface. And it's, uh,

2085
01:52:30,319 --> 01:52:32,960
it looks so creepy from now, but anyway, he did

2086
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:33,520
that as well.

2087
01:52:34,279 --> 01:52:39,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's amazing. So commutes a death sentence

2088
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:45,039
and then some people start moving going, uh, you know,

2089
01:52:45,159 --> 01:52:46,520
just making decisions.

2090
01:52:46,920 --> 01:52:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so uh Slayton Actually he takes off and they

2091
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:53,640
moved the prison for where Leo Frank is from one

2092
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:55,880
to another. By the way, if you read all the

2093
01:52:55,920 --> 01:53:01,039
stuff about the discussion, at this point, Leo Frank is

2094
01:53:01,119 --> 01:53:04,000
really loving his notoriety. He's starting to have people come

2095
01:53:04,079 --> 01:53:08,279
visit him at at the prison. He talks about how

2096
01:53:08,319 --> 01:53:11,920
wonderful his conditions are there. People are sending him money

2097
01:53:12,279 --> 01:53:16,199
and he's just he's loving life the way it is. Uh,

2098
01:53:16,239 --> 01:53:18,680
they move. He gets slashed in the neck at one

2099
01:53:18,720 --> 01:53:22,279
point someone tries to kill him. They save his life,

2100
01:53:23,159 --> 01:53:25,640
and then a few days or a week or so later,

2101
01:53:27,039 --> 01:53:31,199
a lynch mob breaks into prison. This is like a

2102
01:53:31,319 --> 01:53:34,760
team or something breaks into into prison, takes him out

2103
01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:36,960
to uh, I think it was in Millageville, and they

2104
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:41,159
take him to Marietta, where Mary Fagan was born, and

2105
01:53:41,199 --> 01:53:44,800
they string him up and they holten they lynch him basically.

2106
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:47,680
Speaker 1: So and there is there's actually a picture out there.

2107
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there is.

2108
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:54,119
Speaker 1: We won't we won't be providing that now.

2109
01:53:54,159 --> 01:53:56,520
Speaker 2: They put a nice cloth over his face though, so

2110
01:53:56,720 --> 01:53:58,039
you can't really tell. Yeah.

2111
01:53:58,159 --> 01:54:05,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, well, why don't you talk about the fact

2112
01:54:05,439 --> 01:54:09,239
that it does eventually? I mean he does get I

2113
01:54:09,239 --> 01:54:11,760
mean this is jumping forward. He does get pardoned.

2114
01:54:12,520 --> 01:54:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we need to finish off Slaton because there

2115
01:54:14,680 --> 01:54:17,680
is one connection we didn't talk about there.

2116
01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we can do the Slayton World tour.

2117
01:54:20,359 --> 01:54:22,039
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you might know a little bit more about

2118
01:54:22,039 --> 01:54:25,279
that than me. Actually, what I found was, Okay, he's

2119
01:54:25,359 --> 01:54:28,119
governor from nineteen eleven to nineteen fifteen. You know, the

2120
01:54:28,199 --> 01:54:30,720
murder happens in nineteen thirteen, so there's what a two

2121
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:34,279
year span that he of elections. He just gets elected

2122
01:54:34,319 --> 01:54:37,520
governor right before the murder are around there, and he

2123
01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:40,079
had merged because he's an attorney. He had merged law

2124
01:54:40,079 --> 01:54:45,680
firms with Luther Rosser, who was the criminal the defense

2125
01:54:45,720 --> 01:54:49,600
attorney for Leo Frank. Okay, they had just merged, so

2126
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:52,439
he can't practice law. So he's not doing that. But

2127
01:54:53,319 --> 01:54:58,560
let me tell you after after he commutes sentence and

2128
01:54:58,600 --> 01:55:01,359
he's done, he goes back and works for the law firm.

2129
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:03,920
Like I said, Jacob Shift tried to get him either

2130
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:07,319
put on Scotus will Rander first tried to put him

2131
01:55:07,319 --> 01:55:14,199
on as a vice president. Shifts letters to Slayton indicated

2132
01:55:14,239 --> 01:55:16,800
that he would give him this cotton loan at one

2133
01:55:16,840 --> 01:55:18,319
hundred Like I said, I think it was one hundred

2134
01:55:18,319 --> 01:55:22,159
and thirty nine million dollar loan. But firstly he asked him,

2135
01:55:22,239 --> 01:55:24,720
how do you feel about Leo Frank's innocence? And by

2136
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:28,680
the way, this money is he hinted it was conditional

2137
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:34,520
on that. So anyway, there's good connection that Slayton was

2138
01:55:34,640 --> 01:55:36,880
perhaps bought off or he thought it was in his

2139
01:55:36,920 --> 01:55:39,640
best interest to do this. Plus as you can see

2140
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:44,880
what he thought about Frank. Jim Connolly, you just believe

2141
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:47,239
the quote unquote, I have to do it for you,

2142
01:55:47,279 --> 01:55:49,399
Pete white guy. And this one, what do you know

2143
01:55:49,439 --> 01:55:55,000
about and by the way, Leo Frank's murdered, and Jim

2144
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:57,000
Conley is actually in California at the time, and he

2145
01:55:57,000 --> 01:55:57,760
hears the news.

2146
01:55:58,039 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 1: What do you know about him from what I heard

2147
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:05,880
that Slayton immediately once that happens, and once the news

2148
01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:09,479
of the lynching comes out, he immediately runs to New

2149
01:56:09,600 --> 01:56:13,760
York and he runs to the people who you know,

2150
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:18,439
what they assume is the people who paid him to

2151
01:56:18,520 --> 01:56:23,399
do this. And there's no chance, no one's going to

2152
01:56:23,479 --> 01:56:25,880
run him for Scotus now, no one's going to run

2153
01:56:25,960 --> 01:56:29,600
him for vice president now. So they just hand him

2154
01:56:29,600 --> 01:56:31,560
a bunch of cash and he goes and he just

2155
01:56:31,560 --> 01:56:33,319
basically tours the world for a little.

2156
01:56:33,159 --> 01:56:35,680
Speaker 2: While, yeah, which sounds about right.

2157
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:38,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I don't know, I don't know how how

2158
01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:41,960
he ended up. I didn't look into that, but you know, basically, yeah,

2159
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:45,079
he committed a crime. He committed a crime quote unquote,

2160
01:56:45,119 --> 01:56:49,199
and then he ran and his the people he the

2161
01:56:49,199 --> 01:56:52,640
people he did a favor for, paid him handsomely, and

2162
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:54,000
he decided to see the world.

2163
01:56:54,600 --> 01:56:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it did come across that as soon as, like

2164
01:56:57,000 --> 01:56:59,880
I said, Marshall, uh, the main of the main of

2165
01:57:00,039 --> 01:57:03,039
journey for Frank after the fact the real connected guy.

2166
01:57:03,560 --> 01:57:07,159
When Jacob Schiff said, hey, what about him for Scotus,

2167
01:57:07,199 --> 01:57:10,279
He's like, yeah, he basically he's not a smart guy.

2168
01:57:10,399 --> 01:57:13,119
I would I wouldn't put him up there for any reason.

2169
01:57:13,159 --> 01:57:14,760
So yeah, there we go.

2170
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:19,239
Speaker 1: So so he all right, go ahead, go So.

2171
01:57:19,239 --> 01:57:21,880
Speaker 2: What happens and maybe you want to talk about the

2172
01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:24,600
lynching and the conspiracy or do we save that Pete

2173
01:57:24,680 --> 01:57:26,119
we tease the folks here?

2174
01:57:27,319 --> 01:57:28,279
Speaker 1: Noah, go ahead and do it.

2175
01:57:29,199 --> 01:57:32,680
Speaker 2: Okay, So I mentioned this, what's this is great about

2176
01:57:32,720 --> 01:57:36,159
the the NI book here about the secret list boxing Jews.

2177
01:57:36,199 --> 01:57:40,079
It's it's from a different perspective than perhaps we have,

2178
01:57:40,319 --> 01:57:44,399
but it's one that's really interesting because they are they're

2179
01:57:44,439 --> 01:57:47,239
coming at it from an agrieved perspective as well, you know,

2180
01:57:47,279 --> 01:57:49,600
and talk about all the lynchings that are happening in there.

2181
01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:52,680
Slayton only is concerned or these people only get riled

2182
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:56,880
up because one Jewish man gets lynched, Yet Slayton never

2183
01:57:57,199 --> 01:57:59,520
commuted the sentences for a bunch of others. By the way,

2184
01:57:59,680 --> 01:58:02,279
it was, they at one point went through page after

2185
01:58:02,319 --> 01:58:04,960
page of just how the due process for blacks was

2186
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:07,039
at the time. They had transcripts from a court hearing

2187
01:58:07,359 --> 01:58:09,920
and it's literally, you know, mister what's his name? You

2188
01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:12,840
know you step up? Did you take this lady's purse?

2189
01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:15,560
No thirty days? The next day? Did you do it?

2190
01:58:15,720 --> 01:58:17,920
No thirty days? And then one guy's like, hey, I

2191
01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:20,239
said it didn't. He goes sixty days, and then he

2192
01:58:20,279 --> 01:58:23,279
goes what I can't and it's ninety days. Fine, two years,

2193
01:58:23,279 --> 01:58:24,880
And that's that's the kind of it was like within

2194
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:28,000
you know, five minutes you're jailing, you know, the fifteen

2195
01:58:28,239 --> 01:58:31,319
different black guys. So that's the way this was. Okay.

2196
01:58:31,479 --> 01:58:36,640
So the book indicates that there was such disgust for

2197
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:39,720
Leo Frank and he started to have talking, he started

2198
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:41,960
to have interviews. They said, no, you've got to stop this.

2199
01:58:42,359 --> 01:58:44,399
Once again. They thought he was this complete pervert. I

2200
01:58:44,439 --> 01:58:46,479
didn't like him from the moment I saw him. These

2201
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:49,560
are legit quotes that I never thought he was legally

2202
01:58:50,760 --> 01:58:53,720
guilty or innocent, I think, which is a weird phrase

2203
01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:57,640
to use to the point where they felt and I

2204
01:58:57,640 --> 01:58:59,960
did read that one quote where they felt that him

2205
01:59:00,159 --> 01:59:02,840
being dead was actually more of a benefit than not,

2206
01:59:03,199 --> 01:59:05,720
because the more he talks, the more interviews. Now you

2207
01:59:05,800 --> 01:59:08,560
commuted his sentence, you're not gonna hang him. Fine, we

2208
01:59:08,640 --> 01:59:10,760
got that because they actually thought we'd commute it, maybe

2209
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:13,680
we'd get some sort of rather release. But the lynching

2210
01:59:13,800 --> 01:59:14,760
is a better deal.

2211
01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:15,119
Speaker 1: Now.

2212
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:17,880
Speaker 2: The New York Times makes this thing about this, these

2213
01:59:17,960 --> 01:59:19,680
Knights of Mary Fagan, and if you, by the way,

2214
01:59:19,680 --> 01:59:23,039
if you look up the KKK, the second wave of

2215
01:59:23,119 --> 01:59:26,680
the KKK, they always say, you know, Simmons started on

2216
01:59:26,720 --> 01:59:30,560
the what was the mountain up there, Stone mountain out

2217
01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:33,600
there in Georgia and the Knights of Mary Fagan. But

2218
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:37,359
the Knights of Mary Fagan never were what you can tell,

2219
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:40,159
we're actually a group, Like I said, New York Times

2220
01:59:40,239 --> 01:59:43,159
mentioned them seven weeks before. There was one other magazine.

2221
01:59:43,199 --> 01:59:46,000
It was the Israelite that had mentioned him great name,

2222
01:59:46,319 --> 01:59:49,159
but that was actually the brother in law of al

2223
01:59:49,439 --> 01:59:53,239
the Adolph Ox. So there's a connection there. This group

2224
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:57,359
then lynches him. They never said that they were any Simmons,

2225
01:59:57,399 --> 01:59:59,479
never said I think that's his name, never said that

2226
01:59:59,520 --> 02:00:02,239
there was any connection to Knights and Mary Fagan. There

2227
02:00:02,279 --> 02:00:05,119
was never a group associated with the Knights and Mary Fagan.

2228
02:00:05,279 --> 02:00:08,239
So the Nation of Inslam thing is this could have

2229
02:00:08,279 --> 02:00:13,560
been your first all false flag where basically did they

2230
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:16,920
do the murder. Did they try to have this guy lynched,

2231
02:00:16,960 --> 02:00:20,399
maybe take him out themselves. Possibly. I think that's a

2232
02:00:20,439 --> 02:00:24,000
great conspiracy to come away with. Either way, it was

2233
02:00:24,039 --> 02:00:28,239
a benefit for the ADL and everyone else involved actually,

2234
02:00:28,239 --> 02:00:30,880
probably on both sides to have this. The interesting part

2235
02:00:30,920 --> 02:00:33,520
of the Knights of Mary Fagan is you mentioned the

2236
02:00:34,760 --> 02:00:37,680
picture of Leo Frank being hung. Gods are sticking their

2237
02:00:37,680 --> 02:00:39,279
head to try to get in the picture. They're not

2238
02:00:39,359 --> 02:00:43,760
hiding their faces. They would take pride in this, and

2239
02:00:43,880 --> 02:00:46,960
that never happened. And by the way, Simmons also when

2240
02:00:46,960 --> 02:00:49,520
they started the KKK at that point wrote proudly of

2241
02:00:49,560 --> 02:00:52,119
the Jews or Knights of the Jews. He didn't have

2242
02:00:52,159 --> 02:00:54,720
an issue with them. So once again we just want

2243
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:59,119
to emphasize this KKK formation out of Mary Fagan, anti Semitism,

2244
02:00:59,279 --> 02:01:00,720
the connection are not there.

2245
02:01:02,239 --> 02:01:04,720
Speaker 1: It's no secret that being sick, frail, in weak makes

2246
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:08,359
you easier to antagonize and manipulate. Even worse, it forces

2247
02:01:08,399 --> 02:01:10,520
you to rely upon a system that seeks to keep

2248
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:13,560
you that way. It's long past time to start taking

2249
02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:16,680
your health and fitness seriously, if not for yourself, at

2250
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:19,479
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2251
02:01:19,520 --> 02:01:23,199
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2252
02:01:23,239 --> 02:01:28,159
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2253
02:01:28,199 --> 02:01:31,680
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2254
02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:35,000
tell you from my first consultation, I'm down seven pounds

2255
02:01:35,159 --> 02:01:38,199
and I'm working out at least every other day. Go

2256
02:01:38,279 --> 02:01:41,439
to Freeman Beyond the Wall dot com, forward slash Axios

2257
02:01:41,680 --> 02:01:44,199
and click the link to find a program, join a

2258
02:01:44,239 --> 02:01:47,159
training community, or simply set up an intro call with

2259
02:01:47,239 --> 02:01:49,479
a coach to see how you can start investing your

2260
02:01:49,479 --> 02:01:54,520
health for the long term. Thank you. I guess one

2261
02:01:54,520 --> 02:01:57,000
of the arguments is, and Emichael Jones talks about this,

2262
02:01:57,239 --> 02:02:00,960
is there's no real consciousness for antimism in the South

2263
02:02:01,000 --> 02:02:05,960
at the time. But it really seems like because of

2264
02:02:06,119 --> 02:02:10,399
everything that happened with this trial, everything surrounding it, the press,

2265
02:02:10,600 --> 02:02:19,239
the the commutation, the just everything, that this was really

2266
02:02:19,479 --> 02:02:26,239
like the genesis of Hey, these people, these people have

2267
02:02:26,279 --> 02:02:29,760
a lot of power. These people seem to stick together

2268
02:02:30,359 --> 02:02:33,680
and they want to be above the law. Maybe we uh,

2269
02:02:33,840 --> 02:02:35,680
maybe this is a group we need to look at.

2270
02:02:36,399 --> 02:02:39,239
Speaker 2: The KKK or the Jewish community.

2271
02:02:40,399 --> 02:02:43,760
Speaker 1: Well, I'm thinking the Southerners, the Southerners in general. The

2272
02:02:43,760 --> 02:02:48,119
consciousness this helps, this helps to build the consciousness of

2273
02:02:49,319 --> 02:02:51,399
you know, the idea that Jews are just in it

2274
02:02:51,439 --> 02:02:53,560
for themselves and they'll do anything to protect their own

2275
02:02:53,600 --> 02:02:55,239
people and very.

2276
02:02:55,239 --> 02:02:58,239
Speaker 2: You know, look you read the Tom Watson stuff. I mean,

2277
02:02:58,239 --> 02:03:02,960
he was very put about by the Northern aggression in

2278
02:03:03,079 --> 02:03:05,479
words and the way that it all went down very

2279
02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:08,960
much could be I mean, but once again, the birth

2280
02:03:08,960 --> 02:03:11,680
of a nation comes out. I just want to emphasize this.

2281
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:13,720
The Birth of a Nation comes out in nineteen fifteen,

2282
02:03:14,439 --> 02:03:16,479
and that's right out, you know, right around the lynch,

2283
02:03:16,520 --> 02:03:18,920
and actually was after it made a killing. It made

2284
02:03:18,920 --> 02:03:22,680
a killing in Georgia. I think that I mentioned that

2285
02:03:23,079 --> 02:03:26,359
MGM basically was founded off the funds that were created

2286
02:03:26,399 --> 02:03:28,920
from that movie. There were Jewish you know, brothers that

2287
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:31,760
had the movie in the South. They said, what is

2288
02:03:31,960 --> 02:03:35,920
in seven thousand Jewish people in Georgia at around the

2289
02:03:35,960 --> 02:03:38,399
time of the trial, And there was a study done

2290
02:03:38,399 --> 02:03:40,880
that it went from four thousand and nineteen ten to

2291
02:03:41,239 --> 02:03:43,800
twelve thousand and nineteen thirty seven, So you know, you're

2292
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:46,520
looking at three hundred Jews a year coming into the area.

2293
02:03:46,800 --> 02:03:50,039
They weren't slowing themselves down. But the sentiment could very

2294
02:03:50,079 --> 02:03:53,319
well have been once again the way that the press

2295
02:03:53,520 --> 02:03:57,159
really tried to push this as once again were backwards place,

2296
02:03:57,319 --> 02:03:59,319
letting the black guy talk everything.

2297
02:03:59,399 --> 02:04:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, so I know this is this

2298
02:04:04,079 --> 02:04:07,159
is a little bit forward. Now let's get to the pardon.

2299
02:04:08,439 --> 02:04:11,920
Speaker 2: So to even set up the part in the ADL

2300
02:04:12,520 --> 02:04:16,199
forms nineteen thirteen, once again living in this Livingston guy

2301
02:04:16,359 --> 02:04:19,920
started it in Chicago, but he was at two hundred

2302
02:04:19,920 --> 02:04:22,199
bucks in his office and the real power was down

2303
02:04:22,239 --> 02:04:24,159
there in Georgia. So it comes out of the Benet

2304
02:04:24,199 --> 02:04:29,600
Breath situation. And why did I just lose my train

2305
02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:29,960
of thought?

2306
02:04:31,159 --> 02:04:34,159
Speaker 1: You were talking about You said the ad L. We're

2307
02:04:34,199 --> 02:04:36,680
talking about the pardon and you you got to start

2308
02:04:36,680 --> 02:04:37,199
with the ADL.

2309
02:04:37,399 --> 02:04:39,199
Speaker 2: You know, luckily that doesn't happen to me in court,

2310
02:04:39,279 --> 02:04:42,920
but if it does, I'll call up Pete. So the

2311
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:46,159
ADL is pushing the part in for quite some time.

2312
02:04:46,439 --> 02:04:49,319
The Georgia Border Pardons is like, no, this isn't happening.

2313
02:04:49,319 --> 02:04:52,600
We've already had everything, you know, good luck. However, in

2314
02:04:52,640 --> 02:04:55,560
the eighties suddenly there comes out, I think it was

2315
02:04:55,600 --> 02:04:59,439
eighty three, comes out this guy Alonzo Man. Now Alonzo Man.

2316
02:04:59,479 --> 02:05:02,000
If you rememb remember way back from episode one, he

2317
02:05:02,279 --> 02:05:05,039
was a witness in the trial. He's a thirteen year

2318
02:05:05,039 --> 02:05:09,079
old boy that testifies that he's in the facility, leaves

2319
02:05:09,279 --> 02:05:11,199
that day at eleven thirty, said there were some people

2320
02:05:11,199 --> 02:05:13,800
there couldn't recognize Mary Fagan if he saw her in

2321
02:05:13,800 --> 02:05:16,520
front of him. He'd just started in first of April.

2322
02:05:16,600 --> 02:05:18,720
It only worked two saturdays, so he may or may

2323
02:05:18,760 --> 02:05:21,920
not have seen Conley. Suddenly in his eighties he has

2324
02:05:21,920 --> 02:05:25,159
a recollection that everything's changed and that Jim Connolly he

2325
02:05:25,199 --> 02:05:28,479
had actually seen him there carrying Mary Fagan over his

2326
02:05:28,560 --> 02:05:32,720
shoulder and ran into the boy and said, Hey, if

2327
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:34,880
you say anything, I'm going to kill you. So what's

2328
02:05:34,920 --> 02:05:37,960
this kid do? He goes home, tells his parents and

2329
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:41,479
they're like, let's see how things play out. That black

2330
02:05:41,520 --> 02:05:45,800
man seemed really dangerous. So he goes and testifies at

2331
02:05:45,800 --> 02:05:49,279
the trial. You know, not much in there, and like

2332
02:05:49,319 --> 02:05:51,720
I said, eighty three some years later, now he's got

2333
02:05:51,720 --> 02:05:55,199
a change of his story once again. The best part

2334
02:05:55,239 --> 02:06:01,720
about Look, there's several books that perpetuate myths over the years.

2335
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:04,039
One of them talks about kill the Jew or will

2336
02:06:04,119 --> 02:06:06,520
kill You? That was a phrase that happened. The first

2337
02:06:06,520 --> 02:06:08,800
writing that that ever came out in was like nineteen

2338
02:06:08,880 --> 02:06:11,560
sixty five. So you go back to all the contemporaneous stuff,

2339
02:06:11,560 --> 02:06:14,079
it's never there. He repeats that, Oh there's a guy

2340
02:06:14,119 --> 02:06:16,039
when he went to the courthouse had a gun. Now

2341
02:06:16,159 --> 02:06:18,920
let's think back here, who are you more afraid of?

2342
02:06:19,279 --> 02:06:21,600
Are you really afraid of? Jim Conley, who gets arrested

2343
02:06:21,600 --> 02:06:24,920
on May eighth and is incarcerated all throughout the trial,

2344
02:06:25,119 --> 02:06:28,279
spends a year in jail after the fact, Are you

2345
02:06:28,359 --> 02:06:31,159
really worried he's going to kill you and your family

2346
02:06:31,520 --> 02:06:35,359
in the South in Georgia? It doesn't make any sense.

2347
02:06:35,800 --> 02:06:39,279
So with this, this this new revelation, you know, the

2348
02:06:39,319 --> 02:06:41,560
whole story comes about the Tennessee and writes a big

2349
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:44,159
article about it. Now the ADL's on the path. They

2350
02:06:44,279 --> 02:06:47,840
send it back over to the Board of Pardons to

2351
02:06:47,880 --> 02:06:52,560
do this, and they have mister Man there with him

2352
02:06:52,760 --> 02:06:57,239
to basically show off to the board about how this

2353
02:06:57,319 --> 02:07:00,760
guy it's it Now he's I think he's seen honestly,

2354
02:07:00,880 --> 02:07:04,159
because when you read the transcript of that, his attorney

2355
02:07:04,199 --> 02:07:06,319
is saying, hey, this happened, and he's like, I don't

2356
02:07:06,399 --> 02:07:08,840
want I mean he's not there and the attorney's trying

2357
02:07:08,840 --> 02:07:11,399
to give the answers. They turn him down. However, they

2358
02:07:11,399 --> 02:07:13,319
come back a few years later and the Board of Pardons,

2359
02:07:13,359 --> 02:07:15,760
I think it just gets so unundated with the pressure

2360
02:07:16,159 --> 02:07:20,119
that they actually they do pardon him. But this is

2361
02:07:20,159 --> 02:07:22,319
important because let me see if I could get to

2362
02:07:22,359 --> 02:07:26,079
the actual pardon statement here, let's go. I have it

2363
02:07:26,119 --> 02:07:28,399
in my book here, So because it's what's important is

2364
02:07:28,479 --> 02:07:31,479
everyone if you even watch on the ADL the website,

2365
02:07:32,199 --> 02:07:34,439
and they have a little thing about the ADL, the formation,

2366
02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:37,199
the one hundred year thing that they had it talks

2367
02:07:37,239 --> 02:07:42,399
about now he's been pardoned. But I think this is oh,

2368
02:07:42,399 --> 02:07:44,760
here we go. This is what they said, without attempting

2369
02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:48,039
to address the question of guilt or innocence, and in

2370
02:07:48,079 --> 02:07:51,000
recognition of the state's failure to protect the person of

2371
02:07:51,119 --> 02:07:55,079
Leo M. Frank and thereby preserve his opportunity to continued

2372
02:07:55,439 --> 02:07:57,880
legal appeal of his conviction, and in recognition of the

2373
02:07:57,880 --> 02:08:01,399
state's failure to bring his killers to justice, and as

2374
02:08:01,560 --> 02:08:04,159
an effort to heal old wounds, a State Board of

2375
02:08:04,199 --> 02:08:09,319
Pardons and Paroles, in compliance with its Constitutional Statutory thirty,

2376
02:08:09,359 --> 02:08:11,840
here by grants Leo M. Franket pardon. Now they had

2377
02:08:11,920 --> 02:08:14,800
denied it previously because he's not a live person. There's

2378
02:08:14,800 --> 02:08:17,000
really nothing to pardon, and I think that's the statute.

2379
02:08:17,079 --> 02:08:19,359
So it almost seems like illegally they didn't do the

2380
02:08:19,439 --> 02:08:22,239
right thing. But it's important to note there they emphasized

2381
02:08:22,279 --> 02:08:24,880
to start it out with, we're not talking about his guilt.

2382
02:08:25,039 --> 02:08:27,760
This is simply you took We couldn't protect him, you

2383
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:30,359
took him out of the facility, and you lynched him.

2384
02:08:30,560 --> 02:08:33,479
Therefore we're doing a posthumous pardon. That's it.

2385
02:08:34,439 --> 02:08:39,319
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. I mean it's like it's

2386
02:08:39,359 --> 02:08:43,520
like the way they parade Biden around. Now, who's in complete,

2387
02:08:44,159 --> 02:08:46,479
you know, whose mind is completely gone? They bring this

2388
02:08:46,560 --> 02:08:50,279
guy in and yeah, all of a sudden, you know,

2389
02:08:50,359 --> 02:08:53,159
it's like, oh, it took him what seventy years to

2390
02:08:53,199 --> 02:08:55,840
grow the nuts to to say this. You know, it's like,

2391
02:08:56,000 --> 02:08:58,479
now it's okay to say it. You know, it makes

2392
02:08:58,720 --> 02:09:01,439
it makes no sense me. You would think you would have,

2393
02:09:01,560 --> 02:09:04,079
you know, after the Civil Rights Act. Oh no, I'm protected.

2394
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:09,479
It's just it's just ridiculous. Did we talk about hoaxes?

2395
02:09:10,399 --> 02:09:14,359
Speaker 2: Uh, we can talk about that. One is the bite

2396
02:09:14,439 --> 02:09:16,359
marks or to kill the Jews, so we'll kill you.

2397
02:09:16,399 --> 02:09:18,199
That was kind of the first one to start with

2398
02:09:18,239 --> 02:09:20,680
that since I mentioned it. The only way that they

2399
02:09:20,680 --> 02:09:25,000
can trace any connection to that is evidently Luther Roster

2400
02:09:25,479 --> 02:09:27,920
or the defense attorney at one point got a phone

2401
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:32,199
call preparing for trial and someone you know that said, uh,

2402
02:09:33,159 --> 02:09:35,439
killed the Jew or will kill you on the phone,

2403
02:09:35,560 --> 02:09:38,399
and he's like, he didn't do anything about it, didn't

2404
02:09:38,399 --> 02:09:39,880
really care because who cares.

2405
02:09:40,359 --> 02:09:40,479
Speaker 1: Uh.

2406
02:09:40,600 --> 02:09:42,920
Speaker 2: So, no one ever said anything about that, and it

2407
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:44,399
never and I don't mean it that way.

2408
02:09:44,239 --> 02:09:46,640
Speaker 1: Pete, but that's fine, but it's funny enough.

2409
02:09:47,880 --> 02:09:50,920
Speaker 2: No, But I mean, once again, we have to This

2410
02:09:51,000 --> 02:09:53,000
is what's crazy. And I think this is the problem

2411
02:09:53,039 --> 02:09:55,119
with like even the ad l Uh. They want to

2412
02:09:55,119 --> 02:09:58,600
go back in time, uh, with with today's standards to

2413
02:09:58,600 --> 02:10:02,000
some extent, but not really because if we did that

2414
02:10:02,079 --> 02:10:05,000
back then, I mean, once again, it's a Jewish man

2415
02:10:05,359 --> 02:10:08,319
in Atlanta. He's going to be thought of his upper

2416
02:10:08,680 --> 02:10:12,039
class compared to anybody else. So is that really anyway?

2417
02:10:12,119 --> 02:10:14,800
The point was that was never said. You can't find

2418
02:10:14,840 --> 02:10:18,079
it anywhere except for you know, after the fact, when

2419
02:10:18,279 --> 02:10:21,239
people in the sixties are starting to write books about that.

2420
02:10:22,199 --> 02:10:24,840
Another one was bite marks. I think someone had commented

2421
02:10:24,880 --> 02:10:27,640
about was there ever bite marks? This is another crazy

2422
02:10:27,640 --> 02:10:31,279
thing where look all the original materials out there the

2423
02:10:32,680 --> 02:10:37,479
corner when they testified from the autopsy. There was a

2424
02:10:37,479 --> 02:10:39,880
lot they can actually do, especially science in nineteen thirteen

2425
02:10:39,960 --> 02:10:43,479
the best that they could muster up, but they didn't

2426
02:10:43,479 --> 02:10:47,000
have X ray technology. Pete and people have now said, oh,

2427
02:10:47,039 --> 02:10:49,199
you look at the pictures there was actually bite marks

2428
02:10:50,439 --> 02:10:52,720
and no, there's no bite marks. It looks like the

2429
02:10:52,760 --> 02:10:54,720
pro frank people trying to do something. I don't even

2430
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:57,079
really know where that goes because they take teeth impressions.

2431
02:10:57,159 --> 02:10:59,000
Once again, if these are there, you could have done it.

2432
02:10:59,000 --> 02:11:02,119
By the way, there was a bloody fingerprint on one

2433
02:11:02,119 --> 02:11:04,840
of the back doors, but they never They could have

2434
02:11:04,920 --> 02:11:09,960
asked uh Conley to take a fingerprint and match it,

2435
02:11:10,199 --> 02:11:14,439
but they didn't. Interesting. Yeah, there's I don't know if

2436
02:11:14,439 --> 02:11:16,000
any other folks, folks.

2437
02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:23,720
Speaker 1: Folkses, folkses foes. Well, I mean, I guess really the

2438
02:11:23,760 --> 02:11:27,039
only the only thing to wrap up with is the

2439
02:11:27,119 --> 02:11:35,239
fact that this was all used to empower and create

2440
02:11:36,159 --> 02:11:48,520
an organization nowadays that is has international political power, right,

2441
02:11:48,600 --> 02:11:52,119
And yeah, I mean it's is it the first of

2442
02:11:52,159 --> 02:11:55,000
its kind like that in the United States. I think

2443
02:11:55,600 --> 02:11:57,800
I'm trying to think. I mean, it would definitely be

2444
02:11:57,880 --> 02:12:00,800
the most powerful. There may have been Jewish organisations before that,

2445
02:12:00,840 --> 02:12:02,800
I mean, but a breath, but that's really just a

2446
02:12:02,840 --> 02:12:03,680
secret society.

2447
02:12:04,039 --> 02:12:07,000
Speaker 2: Well that a j C was kind it was. That's

2448
02:12:07,039 --> 02:12:11,760
the Marshall had that it's the American Jewish Yeah, something

2449
02:12:11,800 --> 02:12:13,439
like that. Is that what it is? But they were

2450
02:12:13,600 --> 02:12:17,880
they were actually specifically tasked with trying to assimilate Rich

2451
02:12:18,279 --> 02:12:21,119
German Jews into the US. That was kind of their thing,

2452
02:12:21,159 --> 02:12:23,039
and that's that's where he had a lot of his money.

2453
02:12:23,039 --> 02:12:25,479
But yeah, I mean, I take it it's kind of

2454
02:12:25,479 --> 02:12:27,359
like the the na A c P, the s l

2455
02:12:27,439 --> 02:12:30,760
P R, s PLC, a cl U even or the

2456
02:12:30,840 --> 02:12:32,000
Rainbow Push correalition.

2457
02:12:32,119 --> 02:12:34,800
Speaker 1: These are Do you know what all those have in common?

2458
02:12:35,680 --> 02:12:35,800
Speaker 2: Uh?

2459
02:12:36,399 --> 02:12:37,840
Speaker 1: Do you know who started all of those?

2460
02:12:38,920 --> 02:12:40,159
Speaker 2: Leo Frank, I don't know.

2461
02:12:42,760 --> 02:12:46,159
Speaker 1: People, people who call themselves a certain background.

2462
02:12:46,359 --> 02:12:50,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's it is, It's fascinating. This is

2463
02:12:50,239 --> 02:12:52,439
this is what I found off the a d l's website,

2464
02:12:52,479 --> 02:12:55,800
which is that there was some videos they have and

2465
02:12:55,840 --> 02:12:57,479
one of them is this is what they claim that

2466
02:12:57,479 --> 02:13:00,439
they're fighting against the one they found this this is

2467
02:13:01,079 --> 02:13:03,479
why they were created. And I could play this video,

2468
02:13:03,520 --> 02:13:05,600
they might d of try to strike you, but it

2469
02:13:05,680 --> 02:13:09,199
says fighting against the one form of prejudice could not

2470
02:13:09,359 --> 02:13:14,039
succeed without battling all forms of prejudice. Now that's what

2471
02:13:14,159 --> 02:13:17,279
they said it stemmed from in nineteen thirteen. Does that

2472
02:13:17,399 --> 02:13:20,479
sound like they were worried about Jim Connolly's rights and

2473
02:13:20,560 --> 02:13:23,600
hit the prejudice to him. Absolutely not. So, you know,

2474
02:13:23,640 --> 02:13:25,880
I this video is like a minute forty or so.

2475
02:13:25,920 --> 02:13:27,520
I don't want to play it, but if I did,

2476
02:13:27,960 --> 02:13:31,039
we could just walk through all the false narratives that

2477
02:13:31,079 --> 02:13:34,319
have been created because we know all the facts now,

2478
02:13:34,319 --> 02:13:36,399
and that's what's amazing about it. They just they say, oh,

2479
02:13:36,439 --> 02:13:39,119
and he was pardoned, Well he wasn't, really, I mean

2480
02:13:39,119 --> 02:13:43,560
that's these are important little distinctions to know. So, by

2481
02:13:43,560 --> 02:13:45,319
the way, did you did you get a chance I

2482
02:13:45,359 --> 02:13:49,119
watched this documentary called defamation? Did you have to know?

2483
02:13:49,159 --> 02:13:50,720
Speaker 1: You shared it with me? I haven't had a chance

2484
02:13:50,760 --> 02:13:51,319
watching it yet.

2485
02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:54,199
Speaker 2: It's really hard to find. And I finally found it

2486
02:13:54,239 --> 02:13:56,640
and I ripped a copy, so if anybody needs it,

2487
02:13:56,640 --> 02:13:59,119
we can probably post it up. And it's a. It's

2488
02:13:59,159 --> 02:14:03,760
a Jewish Russian from Israel. He decides to hey, let's

2489
02:14:03,880 --> 02:14:05,720
let's find out this whole thing about the ad L

2490
02:14:05,840 --> 02:14:08,600
and stuff. It starts out he's talking to his mom

2491
02:14:08,640 --> 02:14:11,399
and she's just she kind of rags on Israel and

2492
02:14:11,399 --> 02:14:15,159
some other things. He follows a bunch of kids from

2493
02:14:15,279 --> 02:14:18,119
Israel that go over to Germany to like, you know,

2494
02:14:18,199 --> 02:14:22,079
Holocaust memorial type of stuff, and it's fear porn the

2495
02:14:22,279 --> 02:14:24,640
entire time. And I think that's that's what I found

2496
02:14:24,640 --> 02:14:26,039
out about. And then he goes to the ADL with

2497
02:14:26,119 --> 02:14:28,119
Abe Foxman, and then he goes, I want to do

2498
02:14:28,239 --> 02:14:31,119
I want to follow an incident that you have. Okay,

2499
02:14:31,159 --> 02:14:33,079
let's find one. And so they're on there. Oh yeah,

2500
02:14:33,119 --> 02:14:37,239
this person they had someone found a Nazi flag in

2501
02:14:37,279 --> 02:14:40,279
their yard, so like like these are the things they're tracking.

2502
02:14:40,640 --> 02:14:43,439
So at some point and then he talked to Norman Finkelstein,

2503
02:14:43,479 --> 02:14:45,840
which was interesting as well. He talked to her more

2504
02:14:46,520 --> 02:14:50,720
orthodox jew in New York. And the interesting part, especially

2505
02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:53,479
the orthodox guy, was more along the lines of this

2506
02:14:53,600 --> 02:14:56,560
is Zionism stuff. It's what it does is it actually

2507
02:14:56,600 --> 02:15:01,000
perpetuates anti Semitism. And they you go and you see

2508
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:04,359
what's your definition of anti Semitism, and it is so broad, Pete.

2509
02:15:04,359 --> 02:15:07,199
It reminded me of the good old days of the

2510
02:15:07,279 --> 02:15:10,920
Jesse Jackson, the rain Rainbow Push coalition where someone I

2511
02:15:10,960 --> 02:15:14,520
went to University of Colorado. I'm out there, coach McCartney.

2512
02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:17,640
He's done, so they hire Rick Neuheisel. He comes in.

2513
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:20,319
He's not Bob Simmons who was supposed to take over

2514
02:15:20,920 --> 02:15:23,920
as a black man. So Jesse Jackson comes out there

2515
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:25,880
and he just tells you how horrible you are, and

2516
02:15:25,920 --> 02:15:29,439
he tries to basically, I'll be good for you news

2517
02:15:29,439 --> 02:15:31,520
wise if you pay me off. And that's kind of

2518
02:15:31,520 --> 02:15:34,119
what the whole thing is. So it's a very similar

2519
02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:35,960
feel that it has to that.

2520
02:15:36,239 --> 02:15:39,600
Speaker 1: Well, the ad L does that too, when yeah, what's

2521
02:15:39,640 --> 02:15:45,279
that basketball player Kyrie? I yeah, yeah, when part of

2522
02:15:45,319 --> 02:15:48,439
his apology was writing a he had to write a

2523
02:15:48,520 --> 02:15:52,039
check to the ADEL. Yeah, I mean, and that's pretty

2524
02:15:52,079 --> 02:15:55,079
much what we knew Jesse Jackson was doing. He would

2525
02:15:55,119 --> 02:15:57,920
go in and he would basically say, look into a

2526
02:15:57,960 --> 02:16:01,560
corporation and be like, you don't have enough black representation here.

2527
02:16:01,960 --> 02:16:05,560
Either get black representation or you could write us a check. Yeah,

2528
02:16:05,640 --> 02:16:09,079
And that's pretty much what I mean, where did they

2529
02:16:09,159 --> 02:16:11,039
learn that from? Where do you learn that from?

2530
02:16:11,199 --> 02:16:15,039
Speaker 2: I mean what I found the big connection, Like you

2531
02:16:15,079 --> 02:16:17,319
watch that document and you think about the Leo Frank thing,

2532
02:16:17,399 --> 02:16:21,119
what came out of it, which was Leo Frank, which

2533
02:16:21,159 --> 02:16:24,800
is there is a lot for us to fear. Now.

2534
02:16:25,199 --> 02:16:28,560
One of the incidents is that the ADL showed was

2535
02:16:28,560 --> 02:16:31,479
this girl that said, oh, it is just a recent

2536
02:16:31,560 --> 02:16:33,840
video I saw. She wakes up, her friend sends her

2537
02:16:33,920 --> 02:16:36,680
text and they're on the chalkboard in the chemistry lab

2538
02:16:36,840 --> 02:16:40,799
was a swastika. She was just in fear. Pete, she

2539
02:16:40,879 --> 02:16:45,120
was in fear. Now I've been I'm not a Jew,

2540
02:16:45,399 --> 02:16:48,920
but things have happened to me, and I'm sorry, I

2541
02:16:48,959 --> 02:16:50,719
just don't. I don't have the fear of every little

2542
02:16:50,760 --> 02:16:53,120
thing at high school like that, and most people don't.

2543
02:16:53,399 --> 02:16:56,840
But when these kids went and they visited Auschwitz, one

2544
02:16:56,920 --> 02:16:59,479
girl is on camera talking to the guy and she's like, oh,

2545
02:16:59,559 --> 02:17:01,040
is it this small? This guy was over there and

2546
02:17:01,079 --> 02:17:04,840
he started yelling Nazi at me and he goes, I

2547
02:17:04,879 --> 02:17:06,760
was there, he didn't, and she goes, yeah, I know,

2548
02:17:07,479 --> 02:17:10,239
so okay, that's that's a weird aspect for a teenage

2549
02:17:10,239 --> 02:17:14,200
girl to do. But they instill the fear of everything

2550
02:17:14,319 --> 02:17:17,040
around the corner is going to be harmful and it's

2551
02:17:17,120 --> 02:17:19,479
not healthy. It reminds me, you know, it was interesting

2552
02:17:19,559 --> 02:17:21,879
you talked about the Jesse Jackson and kind of the

2553
02:17:21,920 --> 02:17:25,280
same idea of the blacks come out of the South

2554
02:17:25,399 --> 02:17:27,120
and there is a lot of fear. They're getting lynched

2555
02:17:27,159 --> 02:17:29,479
a lot. But at some point, where are we going

2556
02:17:29,520 --> 02:17:29,920
from here?

2557
02:17:30,280 --> 02:17:30,440
Speaker 1: Right?

2558
02:17:30,479 --> 02:17:32,639
Speaker 2: Are we going to allow this to envelop our lives?

2559
02:17:32,639 --> 02:17:36,040
And is it a healthy situation. I'm sorry to preach

2560
02:17:36,120 --> 02:17:37,920
on on this, but this is kind of what you

2561
02:17:37,959 --> 02:17:40,719
see now, and this is what we have of criticism

2562
02:17:40,879 --> 02:17:43,280
has to be in. If you criticize in the wrong way,

2563
02:17:43,600 --> 02:17:46,159
you're going to be labeled. And the label itself is

2564
02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:50,000
the way that they can try to well censor you.

2565
02:17:51,000 --> 02:17:56,719
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I was. It really seems like they have

2566
02:17:56,760 --> 02:17:59,319
their own history and they created I don't know if

2567
02:17:59,360 --> 02:18:05,840
you've seeing the Ben Shapiro history of Israel that's going

2568
02:18:05,879 --> 02:18:11,000
around where he just basically gives the Israeli side on everything.

2569
02:18:11,319 --> 02:18:15,319
You know, no mention, you know, no mention of anything

2570
02:18:15,559 --> 02:18:20,079
any kind of No mention of the King David Hotel, bombing,

2571
02:18:20,799 --> 02:18:25,399
of Irgun, no mention of Lehigh no mention of the

2572
02:18:25,479 --> 02:18:30,040
Lavan affair, no mention of the USS liberty, no mention

2573
02:18:30,559 --> 02:18:34,879
of basically anything anything, no mention of He talks about

2574
02:18:34,879 --> 02:18:38,319
how they acquired the goal on Heights in the sixty

2575
02:18:38,360 --> 02:18:42,920
seven and it's like, you realize that that's like against internet,

2576
02:18:43,239 --> 02:18:47,000
against international law. You cannot get you can't gain land

2577
02:18:47,120 --> 02:18:48,680
by by war anymore.

2578
02:18:49,600 --> 02:18:54,440
Speaker 2: And he what I just said, I don't know, that's

2579
02:18:54,479 --> 02:18:58,159
not my my thing. I'm learning more. But Dave Smith

2580
02:18:58,200 --> 02:19:00,920
did break that down and I thought it was very good.

2581
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:03,399
And he said one thing that I thought was actually great,

2582
02:19:03,520 --> 02:19:05,680
which I've actually had a judge tell my client, which is,

2583
02:19:06,040 --> 02:19:07,799
you know, you come here to swear the truth, the

2584
02:19:07,840 --> 02:19:10,680
whole truth, and nothing but the truth omissions are just

2585
02:19:10,719 --> 02:19:13,760
as bad. And that's what Ben failed to do because

2586
02:19:13,799 --> 02:19:16,799
you can't have this honest discussion. And by the way,

2587
02:19:16,799 --> 02:19:20,520
it's it's so weird to see a guy in Congress

2588
02:19:21,159 --> 02:19:26,239
who's a Christian wearing an IDF uniform. You know, I'm

2589
02:19:26,360 --> 02:19:30,040
German and i'd be you know, that would not happen,

2590
02:19:30,360 --> 02:19:30,719
but you.

2591
02:19:30,680 --> 02:19:43,000
Speaker 1: Know, but yeah, it's there. I don't know how, you know,

2592
02:19:43,079 --> 02:19:46,040
it's a lot of what you've seen this week is

2593
02:19:49,239 --> 02:19:53,079
how they basically want you to believe that Israelis are

2594
02:19:54,520 --> 02:19:58,079
just good they never knew anything wrong, you know, No,

2595
02:19:58,959 --> 02:20:03,319
there are no settlements, no settlers. Uh, settlers never killed

2596
02:20:03,399 --> 02:20:08,840
kids just for fun, which they do kill Palestinian kids

2597
02:20:08,879 --> 02:20:11,639
just for fun. They do there. It's not human shield

2598
02:20:11,760 --> 02:20:14,920
it's you know, not them throwing stones and hiding. No,

2599
02:20:14,959 --> 02:20:18,239
it's they just the Settlers are the most radical of

2600
02:20:18,319 --> 02:20:23,719
the of these groups and of of the Israelis. And yeah,

2601
02:20:23,760 --> 02:20:26,920
you don't get that, and you know, lies by lies

2602
02:20:26,959 --> 02:20:30,239
by omission. If you're just going to tell give your

2603
02:20:30,360 --> 02:20:36,319
side of the story, I'm sorry, you've you've lost the

2604
02:20:36,399 --> 02:20:39,719
right to be trusted. And as far as i'm I mean,

2605
02:20:39,760 --> 02:20:44,959
I've never trusted Ben Shapiro because for somebody who basically

2606
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:50,159
has made his fortune attacking identity politics, there's no bigger

2607
02:20:50,239 --> 02:20:56,920
identity politics issue than Zionism. I mean, Zionism is it's

2608
02:20:56,959 --> 02:21:01,639
a supremacy religion. And I was talking to a friend

2609
02:21:01,680 --> 02:21:04,280
of mine who grew up in a very strict Jewish family.

2610
02:21:04,639 --> 02:21:07,479
She got out, she's she's one of the smartest people

2611
02:21:07,520 --> 02:21:10,159
I know, she's one of the she's one of the

2612
02:21:10,239 --> 02:21:13,200
most anti Zionist people you will ever meet in your life.

2613
02:21:13,799 --> 02:21:16,520
And you know, I told her, I said, if if

2614
02:21:16,520 --> 02:21:20,200
we could just get if we just break people's minds

2615
02:21:20,239 --> 02:21:23,319
from this Zionism, it would be you know, it would

2616
02:21:23,319 --> 02:21:26,399
be great. And she said, You're still going to have

2617
02:21:26,440 --> 02:21:30,799
to deal with the fact that Judaism, just Judaism, regular Judaism,

2618
02:21:31,159 --> 02:21:35,639
is a supremacist religion. And as long as you have

2619
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:40,639
a group that has power, that has wealth, that believes

2620
02:21:40,639 --> 02:21:45,079
that they're supreme to everyone else, you have a real problem.

2621
02:21:46,399 --> 02:21:47,520
You have a real problem.

2622
02:21:47,879 --> 02:21:50,440
Speaker 2: You mentioned something that triggered me there or not made

2623
02:21:50,440 --> 02:21:53,000
me think of something actually not triggering, trigger triggered. I thought,

2624
02:21:54,440 --> 02:21:56,920
I get thing, which is I I've heard actually been

2625
02:21:57,000 --> 02:21:59,079
and I and I've I've tried to do this myself,

2626
02:21:59,120 --> 02:22:02,120
which is, you know, arguing politics. Ben Shapiro has said

2627
02:22:02,360 --> 02:22:06,760
he tries not to argue them from a religious perspective. Okay,

2628
02:22:06,840 --> 02:22:09,440
let's talk about abortion or whatever you want to talk about,

2629
02:22:09,879 --> 02:22:13,479
because it doesn't it immediately alienate some people. Yet is

2630
02:22:13,520 --> 02:22:17,600
there anything about this this current conflict that is not

2631
02:22:17,799 --> 02:22:21,959
based in his religious perspective, so he can't argue it

2632
02:22:22,000 --> 02:22:24,600
from there. So there's been there's been some really good

2633
02:22:25,760 --> 02:22:28,120
coming to Jesus moment for me at least with him

2634
02:22:28,239 --> 02:22:31,319
of like, yeah, you're just I there's a lot of

2635
02:22:31,319 --> 02:22:32,159
people out there right now.

2636
02:22:32,600 --> 02:22:34,360
Speaker 1: There was a time when I would listen to him

2637
02:22:34,360 --> 02:22:38,159
every once in a while twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, you know,

2638
02:22:38,200 --> 02:22:40,159
when he was doing a lot of the takedowns of

2639
02:22:40,239 --> 02:22:43,799
the of the the growing woke at the time. And

2640
02:22:43,840 --> 02:22:47,879
I remember him once saying, he said, I don't even

2641
02:22:48,000 --> 02:22:52,879
consider people to be a Jew who were born into

2642
02:22:53,000 --> 02:22:56,920
a Jewish family. You're not Jewish unless you practice the faith.

2643
02:22:58,159 --> 02:23:01,200
And he doesn't believe that. He doesn't believe that because

2644
02:23:02,040 --> 02:23:07,360
there is Zionism is not a is not. These aren't

2645
02:23:07,399 --> 02:23:11,559
religious people. Most of them are atheists. They will be.

2646
02:23:11,639 --> 02:23:15,000
They will be honest with you about that. They pay

2647
02:23:15,200 --> 02:23:19,079
very very little lip service to the Old Testament. They

2648
02:23:19,079 --> 02:23:21,760
talk about the Talmud thing. Then you know, that's what

2649
02:23:21,799 --> 02:23:24,159
they learn in Yeshiva, that's what they learn in Hebrew school.

2650
02:23:24,719 --> 02:23:31,479
And I mean it's he I've caught. He's been caught

2651
02:23:31,559 --> 02:23:35,680
in so many, if not out and out lies, in

2652
02:23:36,879 --> 02:23:40,520
so much inconsistency that he can't be taken seriously. He

2653
02:23:40,520 --> 02:23:44,079
can't be taken seriously anymore. And with this whole thing.

2654
02:23:44,799 --> 02:23:48,000
Since this thing started, you just get to see how

2655
02:23:48,079 --> 02:23:52,600
much of an emotional child he really is, because he is.

2656
02:23:53,479 --> 02:23:56,879
I mean, he's basically just throwing fits.

2657
02:23:59,280 --> 02:24:03,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. I he had had some tweet today. I just

2658
02:24:03,200 --> 02:24:05,760
the last bit of it. He talks about assurance by

2659
02:24:05,959 --> 02:24:09,360
all the right people that Jews ought not to defend themselves,

2660
02:24:09,399 --> 02:24:12,000
and I just replied, like, Jews are Israel? What do

2661
02:24:12,040 --> 02:24:15,719
you because that, to me is part of the problem here.

2662
02:24:15,840 --> 02:24:18,639
You know, America first suddenly turned into America first in

2663
02:24:18,760 --> 02:24:22,879
line behind Ukraine and Israel. It's just it's a weird

2664
02:24:22,959 --> 02:24:27,159
concept for me, coming from like pretty conservative upbringing to

2665
02:24:27,200 --> 02:24:29,360
suddenly seeing this. I don't know if the eyes are

2666
02:24:29,600 --> 02:24:32,959
opened more, but it's it's a fascinating, uh fascinating a

2667
02:24:32,959 --> 02:24:34,799
few few years for me, that's it.

2668
02:24:35,280 --> 02:24:38,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well I really appreciate this. This was fine,

2669
02:24:38,959 --> 02:24:42,040
and also to get it to hear it from somebody

2670
02:24:42,040 --> 02:24:45,920
who knows their way. We're in a court room and

2671
02:24:46,479 --> 02:24:48,840
had the mispleasure of being in law school.

2672
02:24:49,360 --> 02:24:51,840
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm.

2673
02:24:51,639 --> 02:24:53,600
Speaker 1: Sure I'm sure there was a lot of a lot

2674
02:24:53,600 --> 02:24:55,319
of good good you took out of law school. But

2675
02:24:55,360 --> 02:24:57,280
I'm sure there was a lot of wasted time there too,

2676
02:24:58,040 --> 02:24:59,000
just like any other school.

2677
02:24:59,840 --> 02:25:02,680
Speaker 2: Like I said it, the first line at first say it,

2678
02:25:02,719 --> 02:25:04,840
they at least my law school, they tell you we

2679
02:25:04,879 --> 02:25:07,360
want you to try to think like an attorney. And

2680
02:25:07,440 --> 02:25:10,440
for me that was was helpful. So yeah, once again,

2681
02:25:10,479 --> 02:25:13,000
I really appreciate this. Look, the what you can take

2682
02:25:13,040 --> 02:25:15,159
away from this is if someone's bringing this Leo Frank

2683
02:25:15,200 --> 02:25:17,559
thing up, now you you at least have parts of this,

2684
02:25:18,000 --> 02:25:20,200
you know. Like I said, when I first read the commutation,

2685
02:25:20,280 --> 02:25:22,600
I'm like, oh, maybe this guy is. And then you

2686
02:25:22,639 --> 02:25:24,479
go through it and it's it's a it's a slam

2687
02:25:24,559 --> 02:25:27,520
dunk case that people have had to glom onto. And

2688
02:25:27,760 --> 02:25:31,159
once again, why is this guy the person that well,

2689
02:25:31,520 --> 02:25:33,600
I think we've talked about it, and it's to create

2690
02:25:33,760 --> 02:25:36,440
They got caught up with themselves. They pushed this thing

2691
02:25:36,440 --> 02:25:38,360
too hard and now they have to stick with it,

2692
02:25:39,000 --> 02:25:42,200
which is it is fear porn. And you don't have

2693
02:25:42,280 --> 02:25:43,639
to you don't have to go down that route. You

2694
02:25:43,680 --> 02:25:48,000
could easily say Leo Frank was a pervert jew.

2695
02:25:48,799 --> 02:25:55,079
Speaker 1: Just just like they, just like his fellow the fellows

2696
02:25:55,079 --> 02:26:00,280
who went down there to to defend him. Yeah, yeah,

2697
02:26:00,360 --> 02:26:05,959
he's a pervert, and yeah maybe maybe they did. Uh ah,

2698
02:26:06,360 --> 02:26:08,920
let's leave that alone. Thank you, Tyler. I appreciate it,

2699
02:26:09,280 --> 02:26:09,799
of course,