Speaker 1: Ben de Bow's Rockets Wire also done some work with
Speaker 1: us here Clutch Fans and also locked on Rockets. Ben
Speaker 1: appreciate the time. Should we expect that Rafelstone gets aggressive
Speaker 1: tonight moves into the back end of round one or
Speaker 1: do we not see the Rockets name tonight.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't expect it, but I think you should keep
Speaker 2: an open mind. I think that report yesterday from Kelly
Speaker 2: Eco over at Yaghoo Sports about the Rockets taking more
Speaker 2: of a wholesale approach to the roster and basically everyone
Speaker 2: not named a Men Thompson the team at least being
Speaker 2: willing to listen on in terms of deals, I think
Speaker 2: that's fairly accurate. So when you cast a net that wide,
Speaker 2: and you know how strong the top of the Western
Speaker 2: Conference is with the Thunder and the Spurs, you can't
Speaker 2: roll anything out. And the Rockets definitely have the types
Speaker 2: of players and future picks as well that could bring
Speaker 2: in a first round pick tonight. Not saying I'm expecting it,
Speaker 2: but you know when you hear them casting a net
Speaker 2: that why it would be silly to rule it out.
Speaker 3: When you look at the move for Gianni Santetekoompo and
Speaker 3: the report that came out last night by Scham's that
Speaker 3: Jalen Brown was a part of a package by Boston,
Speaker 3: And this is now the second time that Jalen Brown's
Speaker 3: name has been brought up as part of a package
Speaker 3: trade to move off and to bring in a premier player.
Speaker 3: Does that maybe peak interest for Rafelstone to call up
Speaker 3: Boston say, we understand that he's going to be a
Speaker 3: tough to move, but let me offer this package. If
Speaker 3: using the instgrid enough for you, let's go to make
Speaker 3: this deal and bring him on down here. Because if
Speaker 3: you don't want him anymore, we sure as I would
Speaker 3: love him in our backboard.
Speaker 2: I mean, if it was just Jalen Brown the basketball player, absolutely,
Speaker 2: I think the fear is Jalen Brown the contract in
Speaker 2: today's NBA, with the first and second aprons as restricted
Speaker 2: as they are, if you're giving out a deal that's
Speaker 2: like sixty plus million in annual value, which is what
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown's going to be at the next few years.
Speaker 2: I think it's three years, one hundred and eighty three
Speaker 2: million dollars left, You've got to feel really good about
Speaker 2: that guy being a centerpiece. Like one thing Rafelstone has
Speaker 2: done really well at his tenure is negotiate good terms
Speaker 2: on contracts. Shingoon is a flawed player, but to get
Speaker 2: him below forty million dollars a year is a really
Speaker 2: good deal. I'm sure they're going to try and do
Speaker 2: the same with Amn Thompson this offseason. So even if
Speaker 2: a guy like Jalen Brown is able to put up
Speaker 2: close to thirty points per game, if you're paying him
Speaker 2: upwards of sixty million dollars, that's a very high bar
Speaker 2: to clear for it to be worthwhile and to build
Speaker 2: a championship team around him. So that's why I'd be
Speaker 2: a little bit surprised if they go in that direction.
Speaker 2: And quite frankly, it's why it shocked me that that
Speaker 2: the Bucks went with the Miami offer, because I think
Speaker 2: the way the modern NBA is going, especially with the
Speaker 2: revised lottery odds for the drafts, quantity is becoming so
Speaker 2: much more important. You want more bites at the apple
Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, future draft picks opportunities and
Speaker 2: the lottery young players, and so you don't want to
Speaker 2: put all of your eggs in one basket like a
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown unless you are so convinced that this is
Speaker 2: the guy. This can be the number one or I
Speaker 2: guess the upperational on number two on a title team.
Speaker 2: I think he's a really good player. I don't know
Speaker 2: if he's quite at that level, and so I think
Speaker 2: that's the hesitation. It's not Jalen Brown the basketball player,
Speaker 2: it's Jalen Brown the contract. That's why I don't think
Speaker 2: the Rockets would bid super aggressively on him, and it's
Speaker 2: why it doesn't shock me that the Bucks went with
Speaker 2: the Miami deal instead of the Boston one.
Speaker 3: Let's just say that they did, though, and that they
Speaker 3: were aggressive going after Jalen Brown. What does that look
Speaker 3: like in terms of a trade package? Is it a hey,
Speaker 3: Alprin Shoon, a couple of draft picks, is it a
Speaker 3: it's a sign and trade to go get rid of,
Speaker 3: go get rid of one of our key pieces for
Speaker 3: the long term, like like Tarry Easton. What does that
Speaker 3: entail for both sides to walk away winners?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one thing that's going to be different for
Speaker 2: the Rockets this upcoming season and really starting this offseason,
Speaker 2: they will have more salaries they can trade. What really
Speaker 2: put them behind the eight ball last year was being
Speaker 2: hard capped at the first apri and also the terms
Speaker 2: of the Fredends League contract extension or the restructure basically
Speaker 2: gave him a no trade clause last season. He will
Speaker 2: not have it this year. So for this upcoming year
Speaker 2: they won't be hard capped and they'll have three expiring
Speaker 2: salaries of significance Jorri and Phinneysmith, fredent Leet Between the
Speaker 2: two of them, that's almost forty million dollars, and then
Speaker 2: Clint Capella as well.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I think technically Capella has a small amount guaranteed for
Speaker 2: next season, but I mean you're getting close to fifty
Speaker 2: million dollars in expiring salaries there. So in theory you
Speaker 2: could make a deal work even without giving up someone
Speaker 2: like an all per in Shangoon and be in the
Speaker 2: ballpark financially for any big name. With that said, I
Speaker 2: do think that from an asset standpoint, you probably have
Speaker 2: to give up, you know, Shingoon and some of those
Speaker 2: future picks that you have from the Suns or the
Speaker 2: Mass something along those lines, just because it's got to
Speaker 2: be worth the while of the other team, unless it's
Speaker 2: like the Julius Randall trade of last night, where it's
Speaker 2: a balery dump. Unless it's something like that, the Rockets
Speaker 2: would probably have to give up one of their young
Speaker 2: core guys. And I just tend to think that Shingoon
Speaker 2: maybe reed Shepherd, Tarry Easton and assigned in trade. I
Speaker 2: think those are the more likely ones at the young
Speaker 2: core that the Rockets would part with. I don't think
Speaker 2: they would part with him in Thompson, and I also
Speaker 2: don't think they'd be willing to part with Jabari Smith.
Speaker 2: Not so much that he's untouchable, but I just think
Speaker 2: very young, great contract, and I think Jabari is a
Speaker 2: situation where he's probably more valuable to the Rockets than
Speaker 2: he would be in a trade. So I would say
Speaker 2: anyone not named himn or Jabari is in play. Not
Speaker 2: expecting it by any means, but I think if a
Speaker 2: big deal were to happen, that's what it might look like,
Speaker 2: at least from the standpoint of, you know, selling up
Speaker 2: someone from the young core that would have value to
Speaker 2: another team.
Speaker 1: Ben to both join us here on the morning job
Speaker 1: at Dan and Cole Sports Talk seven ninety Ben, I
Speaker 1: mean just talking about a couple of those names. As
Speaker 1: you mentioned, we understand while reports like this come out
Speaker 1: from a beinterest, it's agents whoever it might be, But
Speaker 1: what does your gut tell you right now when it
Speaker 1: comes to Alprin Shingoun and Kevin Durant. Are they playing
Speaker 1: together in twenty twenty six and twenty seven.
Speaker 2: So the smart money is yes, simply because it takes
Speaker 2: two to tango. But like with this team, I do wonder,
Speaker 2: and it's why I do think the Rockets will explore
Speaker 2: the market if it makes sense to get in better alignment,
Speaker 2: because I think if you're trying to win at the
Speaker 2: highest level right now, and the Rockets are a very
Speaker 2: good team. They've won fifty two games the last two years,
Speaker 2: but the Spurs and the Thunder each one sixty plus,
Speaker 2: So there's a tier that the Rockets have to go.
Speaker 2: And while getting Fred and Steven Adams back will certainly help,
Speaker 2: I don't think you can expect that alone to take
Speaker 2: the Rockets to the level of the Spurs and the Thunder.
Speaker 2: So if you're trying to jump up ten plus wins
Speaker 2: and compete with the best of the best next season,
Speaker 2: I think as currently constructed, there's a couple of primary issues. Defensively,
Speaker 2: it's hard to play Shinggoon and Reach Shepherd together because
Speaker 2: that's two minus defenders that you're trying to cover for.
Speaker 2: There's simply too much that the other three players have
Speaker 2: to do. And so if you can't play both of
Speaker 2: those guys at the same time for very long, it's
Speaker 2: going to limit your offensive ceiling. And then on the
Speaker 2: other end of the court, Aman Thompson and all for
Speaker 2: In Changoon right now, neither of them can really shoot
Speaker 2: beyond twelve feet or so. So if the floor is compressed,
Speaker 2: it's going to be tough to win at the highest level.
Speaker 2: We saw a big part of the NBA Finals how
Speaker 2: the Knicks took down the Spurs was having Karl Anthony
Speaker 2: Towns as they stretched five that could space the floor.
Speaker 2: So I think if you're trying to win at the
Speaker 2: highest level right now, you've got to question how that
Speaker 2: young core fits together. Now, with that said, the counter
Speaker 2: to that would be, look, these guys are all like
Speaker 2: twenty three years old or younger. It's entirely possible that
Speaker 2: over time, reach Shepherd, all for Ech and Goon, they
Speaker 2: get better defensively on offense, maybe Shinggoon or even a
Speaker 2: men eventually developed a three point shot like that's happened
Speaker 2: in the NBA Brooklope as the guy who entered the
Speaker 2: NBA fifteen years ago did not shoot threes at all,
Speaker 2: and now he's a marksman. It's rare, but it does happen.
Speaker 2: So maybe those types of players improve as shooters as
Speaker 2: the years progress. I don't think it's reasonable to expect
Speaker 2: that by the time they report to training camp in September,
Speaker 2: and so if they aren't, you know, if you're playing
Speaker 2: the long game and you're saying, even if it doesn't
Speaker 2: happen this year, we think these guys are young enough,
Speaker 2: we believe in them enough that in the big pitch,
Speaker 2: it's worth it to be patient. If that's the case,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how much sense it makes to roster
Speaker 2: a thirty eight year old Kevin Durant who would probably
Speaker 2: have a market from teams that are more ready to
Speaker 2: win at the highest level right now. So that's why
Speaker 2: I do think the Rockets will explore they're not in
Speaker 2: a bad situation. They shouldn't make a bad deal just
Speaker 2: to make a deal. But at the same time, I
Speaker 2: think you've got to be realistic with this roster, and
Speaker 2: if you want to air on the side of the
Speaker 2: young core and giving them a long runway a longer
Speaker 2: period of time. I'm not sure where a thirty eight
Speaker 2: year old Kevin Durant fits into that if you can
Speaker 2: trade him for assets that are a little bit younger.
Speaker 2: And conversely, if you do believe in Kevin Durant and
Speaker 2: Steven Adams and Pregnent Leet and all these veterans, you
Speaker 2: can throw a Men Thompson into that mix as well,
Speaker 2: and you think, hey, we're a move or two away
Speaker 2: from really being able to challenge the top of the
Speaker 2: West right now that I don't know that the young
Speaker 2: wre at least for next season is the right fit.
Speaker 2: So I think those are the conversations that behind the
Speaker 2: scenes they've got to be having at Toyota Center.
Speaker 3: I do wonder is part of the problem depth with
Speaker 3: this team, because it felt like more often than not,
Speaker 3: how many times you were just looking at Hey, it's
Speaker 3: got to be Read coming off of the bench or
Speaker 3: Tari coming off the bench, and you'd be lucky if
Speaker 3: Josha Kogi was able to have a double digit game.
Speaker 3: But what really I felt separated teams like San Antonio
Speaker 3: in Oklahoma City was they had good depth. But is
Speaker 3: it more than just that, Like you can go ahead
Speaker 3: and expect to have back a hopefully healthy Steven Adams
Speaker 3: and that Fred Van Vlieve is going to be able
Speaker 3: to play at the top of the rim. But like,
Speaker 3: at the same time, what's the missing spark right now
Speaker 3: that would catapult Houston into that conversation of Look, we're
Speaker 3: not Oklahoma City, we're not San Antonio. But we know
Speaker 3: clear as day Denver, we're better than Minnesota, we're better
Speaker 3: than Los Angeles, and teams still have to worry about
Speaker 3: us because if we get hot, we're going to go
Speaker 3: on a roll.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope it's deep. I think that's the easiest
Speaker 2: spot to upgrade. We heard Imo Jujoka say it after
Speaker 2: they lost Game six to the Lakers and their season ended,
Speaker 2: that they felt they had too many duplicates at the
Speaker 2: end of the roster. So there's sightings you can make.
Speaker 2: I think you should keep in mind that for the
Speaker 2: first time as owner Tillman, Partita paid the luxury tax
Speaker 2: last season, and they knew by the trade deadline that
Speaker 2: that team, especially after losing Friend and Stephen, was not
Speaker 2: going to win a title. The reason they paid the
Speaker 2: luxury tax was to keep these tradable salaries on the books,
Speaker 2: guys like Dorian Finny Smith and Clint Capella, who I
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, So I think those are trade candidates this offseason.
Speaker 2: They paid the tax for a reason, so you could
Speaker 2: aggregate those salaries and bring in someone of significant stature
Speaker 2: to the bench. I think the two second rounds, you know,
Speaker 2: the second round and even the late first round, has
Speaker 2: really changed the last few years. With nil keeping more
Speaker 2: of the young guys in college basketball, you're seeing the
Speaker 2: second round have prospects that are a lot older because
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense to declare early for potentially a
Speaker 2: non guaranteed contract. So these older prospects. I'm looking at
Speaker 2: some of the mocks that, for example, have brackets selecting
Speaker 2: Emmanuel Sharp out of U of H at pick thirty nine.
Speaker 2: That's someone he defends at a high level under Kelvin Sampson.
Speaker 2: He's going to be twenty three years old next season.
Speaker 2: Could he give you some three and d minutes off
Speaker 2: the bench that in the playoffs went to a jaschan Tate. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he potentially could. He might not have star upside, but
Speaker 2: in the short term, the second round picks are more
Speaker 2: ready to play immediately than they used to be because
Speaker 2: of the nil rules sort of changing the landscape and
Speaker 2: what it looks like. So I do think that between
Speaker 2: trade signing second round draft picks, you can fortify the
Speaker 2: depth for sure. However, to your point, I do fear
Speaker 2: a little bit that they need something bigger than that,
Speaker 2: because as much as you can point to Fred and
Speaker 2: Stephen coming back, look, other teams have injured guys coming
Speaker 2: back as well. The Thunder we're missing Jalen Williams for
Speaker 2: nearly the entire season. Him coming back healthy is going
Speaker 2: to lift them to another tier. So you can't just
Speaker 2: sit on your laurels and expect that Fred and Steven
Speaker 2: coming back it is going to fix everything. Because even
Speaker 2: if they do come back healthy and they're who they
Speaker 2: were before the injuries, other teams have their own injuries
Speaker 2: and those guys are going to come back as well.
Speaker 2: So that's why I do keep going back to the
Speaker 2: Rocket seem to be in a little bit better alignment.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a roster that fits more cohesively together in
Speaker 2: terms of that top eight, top nine, the clear playing rotation,
Speaker 2: or from a timeline perspective, you know, maybe airing on
Speaker 2: the side of a little bit more youth than giving
Speaker 2: them a little bit more time to cook. I think alignment,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm looking for. Depth is a low hanging fruit.
Speaker 2: They can certainly address that, maybe as soon as tomorrow
Speaker 2: night when they had the two second round draft picks.
Speaker 2: But beyond that, I think there's ways that you can
Speaker 2: get the overall roster in better alignment to build for
Speaker 2: not just this season, but into the future.
Speaker 1: We can expect a busy and interesting off season, no
Speaker 1: question about it. So I suspect this probably won't be
Speaker 1: the last time we talked with you. Ben again. He's
Speaker 1: been to Bow's you can find his work with Rockets Wire. Also,
Speaker 1: he's done some work with us here at Sports Talk
Speaker 1: seven ninety Clutch Fans and also Locked on Rockets. They've
Speaker 1: been really appreciate your time this morning, and like I said,
Speaker 1: we'll catch up at the beginning very soon.
Speaker 2: Thanks Ben, Thanks for having me. Gus