Speaker 1: Today's episode of the Trip Cast is brought to you
Speaker 1: by Ambassador Tony Garza and the Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau.
Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's episode of the Trip Cast. I
Speaker 1: am James Vadragan. With me, as always is intrepid Women's
Speaker 1: health reporter Eleanor klebanoff Ari.
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 3: How are you you like that intro?
Speaker 2: Huh, I'm very intrepid, everyone says it.
Speaker 1: And our guest this week is Alejandra Serrano, who has
Speaker 1: been writing a fair amount about our subject of the week, immigration.
Speaker 3: Alejandra, how are you good? Here are you go? Thank
Speaker 3: you for having me? Great, We're very excited. Before we
Speaker 3: get started, let's check in. How are we doing, folks?
Speaker 1: Have we recovered from the super Bowl and from the
Speaker 1: Kansas City Chiefs playing an absolute egg in the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl preventing our guy Travis Kelce from proposing to Taylor
Speaker 1: Swift in the most man move that could possibly be
Speaker 1: done in front.
Speaker 3: Of thousands of people just trying to watch sports.
Speaker 4: Okay, as we've established not a sports podcast, we don't
Speaker 4: know that much about sports, but I will say we're
Speaker 4: going to lean into this.
Speaker 2: You come to us for the.
Speaker 4: Sports and while we have you here, we will back
Speaker 4: into some Texas politics.
Speaker 2: I will say.
Speaker 4: Personally, a little known fact about me is that I
Speaker 4: lived in Philadelphia until I was eleven years old. So
Speaker 4: I am a.
Speaker 2: A halfway Eagles fan.
Speaker 4: I tend to root for the Eagles when when given
Speaker 4: the chance, and then I moved to Atlanta.
Speaker 2: So I am also a halfway Falcons fan who, when
Speaker 2: given the chance to choose which of those teams to
Speaker 2: root for in a Super Bowl, the Eagles are shown
Speaker 2: or doing a better showing than the.
Speaker 3: Falcons, they were going to say, I'm rooting for the Birds.
Speaker 2: I'm rooting for the Birds.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I had a great time watching the Super Bowl.
Speaker 4: I thought it was I like to see one team
Speaker 4: really kick the hell out of the other.
Speaker 2: It's more fun that way.
Speaker 3: One hundred Do you have thoughts on the Super Bowl?
Speaker 3: I thought it was boring.
Speaker 4: Wow yeah wow.
Speaker 3: After the third quarter I was checked out me too.
Speaker 1: I was just reading reviews of the Kendrick Lamar halftime show,
Speaker 1: which people went crazy for.
Speaker 4: Like, I'm both yeah, very divisive, I do think to
Speaker 4: doesn't extent is everything just very divisive?
Speaker 5: Now, maybe those pants weren't I kind of like the
Speaker 5: people generally, like I.
Speaker 4: Thought, in general, I like, yeah, you left in the
Speaker 4: third quarter.
Speaker 2: So did President Trump. He left a little correct.
Speaker 1: And actually funny that you bring that up, because not
Speaker 1: to inject politics into this podcast.
Speaker 2: The only thing we know how to do.
Speaker 3: But President Trump.
Speaker 1: Was there and I read in the AP that this
Speaker 1: is the first time that a sitting president was in
Speaker 1: attendance at the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3: I just thought that was interesting because we've had big
Speaker 3: sports fans. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, President Bush used to own a baseball team,
Speaker 1: and right, that does surprise. President Obama was a big
Speaker 1: basketball guy. He used to fill out the March Madness
Speaker 1: bracket all the time.
Speaker 2: You think it's like a security thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say that, Yeah, I'd say it might be.
Speaker 4: That makes sense, I really I would think there's like
Speaker 4: nothing more American than going to watch the Super Bowl
Speaker 4: as the president. Like the president should be like you
Speaker 4: have to go watch the last game of the World Series,
Speaker 4: Like you have to be the person who like the Knights,
Speaker 4: you know, like in in the UK when they have
Speaker 4: like the f A Cup, like Prince William goes and
Speaker 4: hands them the trophy.
Speaker 2: You're I know a lot about the Royals.
Speaker 4: I don't know that much about football, but I do
Speaker 4: know a lot about the Royals.
Speaker 3: Sports expert, kind of a sports expert.
Speaker 4: But I think we should make the president do that.
Speaker 4: Like you give the World Series trophy unless it's one
Speaker 4: of the Canadian teams. You give the NFL, you know,
Speaker 4: the trophy, the Stanley Cup. How many trophies can I
Speaker 4: name you? I think you cheated and limits, Yeah, the
Speaker 4: Stanley Cup, the World Series, the Super Bowl?
Speaker 2: What their sports are there?
Speaker 3: The MLS Cup, the Los Angeles Galaxy six time.
Speaker 2: Champion, and the basketball what do they call that?
Speaker 3: Uh? I don't know. The NBA trophy, NBA trophy?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, guys, sorry we extended.
Speaker 3: Yes, sorry, Alejandro, thank you for joining us on this.
Speaker 2: The things we do know about.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to the real topic at hand. It's
Speaker 1: a big one this week, and it's immigration. President Trump
Speaker 1: promised to do mass deportations starting on day one. He
Speaker 1: promised to continue building the wall. He promised to give
Speaker 1: the death penalty to any migrant who killed an American citizen.
Speaker 1: All these big, big promises, big big, sometimes controversial items,
Speaker 1: and he's hit the ground running. I mean, it's only
Speaker 1: been a couple of weeks that he's been in office,
Speaker 1: and it seems like from watching your team, trying to
Speaker 1: follow this news, it's very hard.
Speaker 3: It's like drinking from fire hydrant.
Speaker 1: So, Alejandro, so far, what are you seeing from the
Speaker 1: Trump administration's immigration plan? It certainly looks like it's been
Speaker 1: a blitz. To continue our football references, but do we
Speaker 1: see any coherent plan here or is it just as
Speaker 1: a Texas football fan would say, all gas, no breaks.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's it's definitely been a blitz. I
Speaker 5: mean Trump has done a lot. You know, he ended
Speaker 5: use of an app asylum seeking migrants would use to
Speaker 5: schedule an appointment at CBP one right, Yeah, with immigration officials.
Speaker 5: He's removed temporary protections some people had. He's also delegated
Speaker 5: more authority to state officials in some cases. But I
Speaker 5: think the overall plan is not yet clear, and it
Speaker 5: kind of seems like still a lot's unfolding. But it
Speaker 5: certainly has been a flurry of things that have already
Speaker 5: impacted people.
Speaker 4: It's interesting, like the really tangible things like so quickly,
Speaker 4: like the app went down, right, like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, so that was pretty soon after inauguration.
Speaker 4: So there's like these tangible things as well as these
Speaker 4: like large policy changes that take a while to see
Speaker 4: the impact.
Speaker 5: Of right and has anticipated. I mean, some of the
Speaker 5: stuff's being litigated. Like one of the hallmark promises was
Speaker 5: ending birthright citizenship, and a lot of people were like, well,
Speaker 5: you can't just get rid of the fourteenth Amendment. And
Speaker 5: now it's become a legal battle in which a judge
Speaker 5: has so far said, you know you can't.
Speaker 1: H And on the CBP one front, I mean on
Speaker 1: the app, you and your colleague Uria Artia wrote a
Speaker 1: story about some of the migrants who are waiting around
Speaker 1: right and just trying to get their asylum claims to go,
Speaker 1: and they were waiting and their meetings were suddenly canceled. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's an immediate impact of the new administration coming
Speaker 1: in and having an immigration crackdown.
Speaker 4: Yeah, can I ask you to put you to the
Speaker 4: test really quickly and briefly catch us up on birthright citizenship,
Speaker 4: Like what it is, why it's controversial.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the Well, the fourteenth Amendment pretty much grants this,
Speaker 5: as I understand it.
Speaker 3: I haven't been covering this a.
Speaker 4: Lot version and I'm sure we'll get emails.
Speaker 5: If you know, the long and short of it is,
Speaker 5: if you have a child in this country, they are
Speaker 5: an American citizen and has been this way for a
Speaker 5: long time, and Trump wanted to end this, but it
Speaker 5: is encoded by the Constitution fourteenth Amendment, so a president
Speaker 5: doesn't have the authority to just override the Constitution need
Speaker 5: a congressional amendment, which is kind of now, I guess
Speaker 5: where the battle is turning, and it's unclear what's next.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the obviously one of the amendments
Speaker 1: that got passed after the Civil War, and it enfranchises people.
Speaker 1: It gives them personhood, it gives them citizenship because previously,
Speaker 1: of course, enslaved people did not have any of those rights.
Speaker 1: So this goes far back, a long way, more than
Speaker 1: a century. So we're talking to about radical changes to
Speaker 1: the constitution, Alejandro. Numerous state officials, including Governor Abbott, Lieutenant
Speaker 1: Governor Patrick Lan, Commissioner Don Buckingham, they've said that they
Speaker 1: are hoping to offer the federal government help, and we've
Speaker 1: seen the National Guard be deployed as well state troopers.
Speaker 1: We've seen land Commissioner Buckingham offered to provide the federal
Speaker 1: government some land for detention and mass deportations, the state
Speaker 1: working with the feds, Like, what's that partnership? Looking like
Speaker 1: they've obviously been they've cooperated together in the past, right,
Speaker 1: but how is this different?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think one way to clearly look
Speaker 5: at it is the last four years a lot of
Speaker 5: state officials felt like they were in opposition with the
Speaker 5: federal government and Texas had conflicts with the feral government
Speaker 5: when it came to immigration enforcement. And now it's the
Speaker 5: opposite and they have a willing partner. So Texas kind
Speaker 5: of going out of its way and being like, hey,
Speaker 5: we want to help. So what does that look like
Speaker 5: on the ground. While the governors directed state agencies to
Speaker 5: cooperate with federal officials, he signed an agreement with the
Speaker 5: Trump administration to give National Guard troops immigration arrest authority.
Speaker 5: And those are kind of some of the bigger things,
Speaker 5: and you have tinier things like that are not clear yet.
Speaker 5: For instance, you brought up the Land Commissioner offering land.
Speaker 5: We don't know yet that elase has been signed, but
Speaker 5: we know the administration said it wants the land. So
Speaker 5: it presents all these other questions of what does that
Speaker 5: partnership look like. But the biggest thing here is like
Speaker 5: now it's like two allies working toward the same goal instead.
Speaker 3: Of in opposition of each other.
Speaker 5: If that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And will that you know, one of the things
Speaker 1: that we were talking about in some of our budget
Speaker 1: talks is will that lead to savings on the immigration front,
Speaker 1: because theoretically with the federal partner, now maybe the state
Speaker 1: can pull back. But what are you learning about whether
Speaker 1: the state can take some of those billions of dollars
Speaker 1: that it's invested and leave it to the federal government
Speaker 1: and maybe turn that those billions of dollars towards something
Speaker 1: else in the budget.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean that's a great question and point,
Speaker 5: and it's kind of unclear right now. And if anything,
Speaker 5: kind of the what the signals we're getting out of
Speaker 5: all these components right what state officials are doing. The legislature,
Speaker 5: which is just starting in earnest its budget negotiations, is
Speaker 5: that Texas is going to double down on border security
Speaker 5: and kind of further cement this role it has in
Speaker 5: border security. The legislature is considering six point five billion
Speaker 5: dollars of funding toward security, and when you think about
Speaker 5: eleven billion that we spend the last four years as
Speaker 5: a state. You know, six point five is kind of
Speaker 5: a step more. It's it's not more than has been appropriated,
Speaker 5: but it's also not less. So it's kind of saying something.
Speaker 5: But also as a state, we have to remember that
Speaker 5: we've done things that have also advanced this cementation.
Speaker 3: That's a word.
Speaker 5: And I think the kind of like the hallmark thing
Speaker 5: recently is Senate Bill four, which would give state police
Speaker 5: the authority to arrest people suspected of being undocumented. And
Speaker 5: it's still being litigated, but you know, when we think
Speaker 5: about Texas's role and immigration enforcement, all these things have
Speaker 5: to be considered. And I'm sorry, I forgot what you asked.
Speaker 2: There's no evidence.
Speaker 4: I think there's like a version of events or maybe
Speaker 4: even like a thing some people like you might think,
Speaker 4: like okay, like now Texas has this partner in the
Speaker 4: White House, like they can be like you know, for
Speaker 4: years they've been saying, like to the Biden administration, like
Speaker 4: do more. Now we can presume President Trump is going
Speaker 4: to do more, and like you think, Texas one version
Speaker 4: of events is Texas says like great, we can sit
Speaker 4: back on our Laurels, we can let you do. You know,
Speaker 4: we're going to work on this other issue. And I
Speaker 4: think that is a foolish to think that that's how
Speaker 4: that was going to go. Right, Texas is going to go.
Speaker 4: Now we have a partner, let's go like turbo charged.
Speaker 4: And I think to a certain extent, that's.
Speaker 3: What we're seeing right.
Speaker 5: Otherwise, Yeah, I don't know that it was foolish or not.
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess it's not for me to say.
Speaker 5: But what we do know is, you know, immediately after
Speaker 5: the election, the governor and lieutenant governor separately floated this
Speaker 5: idea that the state might scale back. The lieutenant governor
Speaker 5: even mentioned like specific things that other that border security
Speaker 5: money could be allocated for instead. So there was like
Speaker 5: this kind of this like kind of like trial balloon
Speaker 5: floated that was like, oh, but we also must consider
Speaker 5: that in Texas, at least, like especially among Republican voters,
Speaker 5: according to polling, there's like an endless appetite for border
Speaker 5: security spending. So now we're seeing doubling down. So yeah,
Speaker 5: for a minute, for a hot minute, it was like,
Speaker 5: all right, we might cut back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now now it's like no.
Speaker 1: Well there's yeah, there's no doubt that politically it's good
Speaker 1: to say I'm spending so much money, But just policy wise,
Speaker 1: is it wise for the state to be spending that
Speaker 1: much money when there is a federal government that is
Speaker 1: theoretically doing these things already. And another thing to point
Speaker 1: out is that the governor has been going to d
Speaker 1: C having meetings with President Trump, having meetings with the
Speaker 1: congressional delegation about getting these eleven billion dollars back. That's
Speaker 1: something that's been floated in the past before and obviously
Speaker 1: has not worked. But it seems like maybe there's an
Speaker 1: appetite now to get clost some of that money back.
Speaker 1: So that'll be interesting to see how it plays out,
Speaker 1: because I can't imagine that the other states will be
Speaker 1: too happy that Texas is getting eleven billion dollars or
Speaker 1: some of that money.
Speaker 4: Right, it's a little bit of a I mean, it's
Speaker 4: like a weird you're set up a little bit of
Speaker 4: a weird system, right of like you know, if we
Speaker 4: you know, in Texas's mind, right like we're doing your
Speaker 4: job for you on sort of on layaway and just
Speaker 4: give us the mone me back later.
Speaker 2: Is like you're setting.
Speaker 4: Yourself up for some potential issues, but obviously, you know,
Speaker 4: being I'm sure the state would be thrilled to get
Speaker 4: eleven billion dollars.
Speaker 3: Well, it depends the state.
Speaker 5: I think some states would probably support a reimbursement, such
Speaker 5: as the governors who supported Operation Loans Start, right.
Speaker 2: They just might get in line for money too, That's.
Speaker 3: What I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Like Florida sent people North Dakota, South Dakota cent people,
Speaker 1: so it's like they want they probably want reimbursements, right.
Speaker 4: I just would like to say, like if relevant, like
Speaker 4: I would put myself in, I would like eleven billion
Speaker 4: dollars if we're offering it.
Speaker 2: I don't know for what.
Speaker 4: I've never spent eleven billion dollars, but you know that'd
Speaker 4: be my preference.
Speaker 3: Okay, Eleanor.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this before, but the FEDS are now
Speaker 1: following the blueprint that Texas has laid out on immigration enforcement,
Speaker 1: on the immigration crackdown, and I want you to talk
Speaker 1: a bit about how Texas sort of did that in courts,
Speaker 1: through the legal system, and because this is like something
Speaker 1: that Texas has been doing for years now, for years now,
Speaker 1: and you know, Governor Abbitt has talked about how the
Speaker 1: FEDS are now taking basically his model and taking up
Speaker 1: to the big leagues. So can you shed some light
Speaker 1: on sort of what that looks like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know this is something all Hundre and I've
Speaker 4: talked about a lot, so feel fit to chime in
Speaker 4: as well. But I do think you know, Texas, on
Speaker 4: not just immigration, but on a number of issues, has
Speaker 4: sort of made this broader playbook, right of like do
Speaker 4: something that you know they say it couldn't be done,
Speaker 4: Texas does it. We fight it through the courts and
Speaker 4: like increasingly commonly, like the court side with Texas, you
Speaker 4: know in some cases because of their you know, novel
Speaker 4: legal theories holding up in some cases because you know,
Speaker 4: they are able to get this in front of judges
Speaker 4: that you know, friendly judges to sort of see their
Speaker 4: their argument. The Fifth Circuit obviously very conservative and a
Speaker 4: lot of cases stall out there or you know, go
Speaker 4: to the Supreme Court, which also obviously has a conservative majority.
Speaker 2: So Texas has.
Speaker 4: Done that on a number of things that you know,
Speaker 4: then sort of become you know, legally more like more
Speaker 4: sound than they were when Texas first passed the law,
Speaker 4: first tried something immigration. We definitely have seen that you know, because.
Speaker 1: When when they first present things, it's it sounds like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's crazy that.
Speaker 4: Right now you're like, I mean, I think there's a
Speaker 4: lot of stuff, I mean on immigration, on abortion, on
Speaker 4: other stuff where Texas is like pushing the envelope where
Speaker 4: like even we as reporters are like, oh, like do
Speaker 4: we even need to write about that? Like it's just
Speaker 4: like you know, conservative grandstanding, and then it passes, and
Speaker 4: then it goes to court and then sometimes it holds up.
Speaker 2: A lot of stuff does not end up holding up in.
Speaker 4: Court, we should say, But on immigration in particular, you
Speaker 4: know SP four I think is an example of this,
Speaker 4: Like that has you know, a you know sort of
Speaker 4: using setting up a legal theory that had not really
Speaker 4: been tested before that legal experts feel like if it
Speaker 4: was upheld in court, it's not just about you know,
Speaker 4: is Texas's law sound or not. It's about like who
Speaker 4: has It's these like macro questions if who has the
Speaker 4: authority to enforce immigration law, who has the authority to
Speaker 4: govern the border, and sort.
Speaker 2: Of like what makes us a United States of America?
Speaker 2: Like these big questions.
Speaker 4: So Texas has definitely laid out the playbook for like
Speaker 4: let's try stuff and let the courts tell us no.
Speaker 4: And we're certainly seeing that. I think the Trump administration,
Speaker 4: we should say, the Trump adminstration is going to is
Speaker 4: already doing a lot of stuff that Texas has laid
Speaker 4: out and tried. Just because the federal government is doing
Speaker 4: it does not automatically mean it's legal either, Right, Like,
Speaker 4: the Trump administration will face legal pushback. Yeah, that will
Speaker 4: go through the courts as.
Speaker 1: Well on things like executive orders on birthright citizenship, which
Speaker 1: we've already seen being challenged.
Speaker 4: Right, So it's going to be a similar playbook in
Speaker 4: that which is like nothing is you know, immediate, but
Speaker 4: it still can slowly shift things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just to clarify that to s before the
Speaker 1: most recent from twenty twenty three, not s before the
Speaker 1: Sanctuary City's bill, which has also had some pretty novel
Speaker 1: ideas on.
Speaker 3: How to enforce immigration all one hundred. I want to
Speaker 3: go back to you.
Speaker 1: We discussed this proly previously on the show with our
Speaker 1: DC reporter Matthew Troy. But there's a debate even among
Speaker 1: congressional Texas Republicans about how to go forward with the
Speaker 1: immigration enforcement that the president wants. Should it be more
Speaker 1: targeted towards people who have committed violent crimes, or is
Speaker 1: it just a sort of catch all anybody who crosses
Speaker 1: an immigration enforcement person that they're they're going to get
Speaker 1: picked up and deported. What are you seeing in the
Speaker 1: first couple of weeks of this Trump administration on that question.
Speaker 5: Yeah, anecdotally, we're seeing that it's it's mostly everyone, like
Speaker 5: any if you are undocumented in this country, it appears
Speaker 5: this the administration's posture is you are fair game for deportation.
Speaker 5: And this was kind of expected. Some people are surprised
Speaker 5: because they've heard statements such as, you know, Trump and
Speaker 5: some of his advisors say that they were going to
Speaker 5: prioritize the most heinous criminals, people who've murdered, people who've raped,
Speaker 5: people who have been released on bond and then committed
Speaker 5: other crimes like they the administry, Trump and his advisors
Speaker 5: focus often on these people. But what if I think
Speaker 5: people either missed or didn't pay as much attention to,
Speaker 5: is that the same people, including Trump and his advisors,
Speaker 5: would criminalize everyone by saying, well, if you're in the
Speaker 5: country illegally, you've broken a crime, so you are a
Speaker 5: fair game.
Speaker 3: And which is what we're seeing now, and that is.
Speaker 5: I think it's fair to say that it is the
Speaker 5: administration's posture, the wife.
Speaker 3: And the press secretary of exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, So it's kind of we've seen like kind
Speaker 5: of like a this criminalization but be like the acting
Speaker 5: on it and being like, you know, well, if you're
Speaker 5: a documented we're going to try to deport you. And
Speaker 5: we've seen this anecdotally in Texas. My colleagues and I
Speaker 5: have reported on that some but also bigger picture, we've
Speaker 5: seen some reporting through leaks other publications that people who
Speaker 5: have no criminal history are being deported.
Speaker 4: I was like our colleague Oriel wrote a story in
Speaker 4: Premel Paso where he interviewed he was like at a
Speaker 4: rally against some of this, and he interviewed someone who
Speaker 4: was like, I voted for Trump and now I'm very
Speaker 4: worried he might deport I believe it was like his
Speaker 4: his father, a who's undocumented, and I think there was
Speaker 4: this sense of like, you know, well, my father is
Speaker 4: just you know, working, and he's not hasn't you know,
Speaker 4: committed some heinous crime, Like I don't think, you know,
Speaker 4: Trump would start by going after him. And as we're
Speaker 4: seeing now like the way that plays out is is
Speaker 4: really surprising.
Speaker 2: A lot of people.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think it's important. I imagine we're
Speaker 5: going to get into this, but it's also important to
Speaker 5: remember the impact on humans, right Like we're talking like
Speaker 5: this spreads fear, This raises a lot of concerns, questions.
Speaker 3: That's actually our next topic.
Speaker 1: But before that, we're going to take a quick break
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Speaker 1: Slash Speakers, Alejandro, Let's talk a bit about the impact
Speaker 1: on the endocumented community, which you rightfully brought up. Texas
Speaker 1: has the second largest population of undocumented people in the
Speaker 1: country behind California, largely because of our size. They power
Speaker 1: a lot of the industries here, construction and farming, service industry,
Speaker 1: food production. What can you say about the impact on
Speaker 1: those communities from this immigration crackdown, because I know you've
Speaker 1: reported on some of this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's huge, and it's wide. You know, we're talking
Speaker 5: about a very diverse population. It's estimated to be one
Speaker 5: point six million people who are undocumented in Texas, and
Speaker 5: you know the state has thirty million people, and that's
Speaker 5: an estimate, right based off people we can count. So yeah,
Speaker 5: they are essential workers. They work restaurants, they pick produce,
Speaker 5: but they're also small business owners, their parents, they're members
Speaker 5: of communities up and down the state. So that's kind
Speaker 5: of why the impact is diverse. But I mean what
Speaker 5: we've been reporting on hearing is folks are concerned, lives
Speaker 5: are already have been changed, even if people aren't being deported.
Speaker 5: You know, some some folks are going straight to work
Speaker 5: and back home, and you know, maybe like mom, if
Speaker 5: she's in American goes grocery shopping, like you know, sometimes
Speaker 5: parents aren't selling kids to school, sometimes they're not going
Speaker 5: to doctor's appointments. So I think what we're seeing is
Speaker 5: this change kind of unfold and it's still, like I
Speaker 5: said at the beginning, the plan is still unclear, so
Speaker 5: I don't know where it goes from here. But we
Speaker 5: do know that people have fear, people have concerns, they're
Speaker 5: worried about their loved ones, they're altering their lives and
Speaker 5: so on.
Speaker 1: And you wrote this very interesting story about an undocumented
Speaker 1: man in Lubbock who's pulled over for a traffic violation.
Speaker 1: He ended up being referred to federal immigration authorities on
Speaker 1: that traffic stop.
Speaker 3: Tell us more about that and what it says about the.
Speaker 1: Overall state of play for immigration enforcement, because I think
Speaker 1: you mentioned you mentioned sort of mixed status families, and
Speaker 1: this I think was a mic status family as well.
Speaker 3: If you can tell us a little bit more.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So the story was about a name Husse Albero's
Speaker 5: that's his first name, and he's married to an American
Speaker 5: citizen and they have three children who were all Americans,
Speaker 5: and they went out to buy a baby formula last
Speaker 5: month and there was some sort of issue with their
Speaker 5: vehicle's tag. So a cop pulls them over and the wife,
Speaker 5: her name is Ashley, explains, Hey, my husband's undocumented. He
Speaker 5: doesn't have a license, but I don't know how to drive,
Speaker 5: which is why he was driving. Hears the car's insurance
Speaker 5: and his passport and according to Ashley, who was very
Speaker 5: kind to speak with me, the officer was really kind,
Speaker 5: goes back to his vehicle and calls ICE, so and
Speaker 5: I shows up and takes Jose and begins removal proceedings.
Speaker 5: So now, I mean that's the short version of the story.
Speaker 5: You could read the whole report text tribute dot org.
Speaker 5: But you know, now this family's life has been upended.
Speaker 5: He's in removal proceedings, they have hearings, they have a
Speaker 5: court date in August, and the government's going to try
Speaker 5: to deport him. And this man has been in the
Speaker 5: country for several years. And I think to your question
Speaker 5: about what it says, you know, we interviewed experts about this,
Speaker 5: and it kind of gets at the everyone's fair game idea,
Speaker 5: which is like, if an administration sets directives for ICE agents,
Speaker 5: you know, like prioritize these people or these people they
Speaker 5: focus on that, it's like, all right, those are our efforts.
Speaker 5: But here we have one officer at his discretion calling
Speaker 5: ICE and ICE being like, we're going to do this,
Speaker 5: and now they're deporting this person. So I think that's
Speaker 5: what it tells us that there is kind of like
Speaker 5: a sort of randomness to the enforcement that it could
Speaker 5: be anyone.
Speaker 1: Right, and that has a deep impact on people in
Speaker 1: the undocumented community because, like you said, they were just
Speaker 1: going about doing a daily chore, a daily necessity kind
Speaker 1: of and they were getting baby formulas in. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that sort of definitely complicates their lives, which is, to
Speaker 1: be fair, exactly what the administration wants to do and
Speaker 1: what immigration hardliners want to be happening, Like they want
Speaker 1: their lives to be complicated so that they either don't
Speaker 1: come or are eventually caught by federal immigration.
Speaker 4: And we should say, like the Trump administration has rolled
Speaker 4: back some there were some protections or sort of guidelines
Speaker 4: on where ICE agents would wouldn't go, right, Like they
Speaker 4: wouldn't go into health care facilities, they wouldn't go into churches, right, schools, schools, Yes, schools,
Speaker 4: that's the other one, Yes, schools, churches, health care facilities.
Speaker 4: And that has now been rolled back. And so I
Speaker 4: think there's sort of a sense of like, you know,
Speaker 4: anyone anywhere is at potential at risk, which right as
Speaker 4: seen as a deterrent, but for the people that are
Speaker 4: already here, like it's also like those people who have
Speaker 4: to go to work or those you know.
Speaker 1: Right, and this person was I think in some immigration
Speaker 1: proceedings did you mention that other?
Speaker 5: Yeah, they were trying to get a green card, so
Speaker 5: as you know, which is a long, arduous, expensive process.
Speaker 5: They had a lawyer, so you know the way that
Speaker 5: their lawyer looks at it, and she also spoke to
Speaker 5: me for the story is in a lot of ways,
Speaker 5: like according to the sis them, however you read it
Speaker 5: is like he kind of went about it the right
Speaker 5: way after being here, which is he met someone, they
Speaker 5: fell in love, they had kids, they got married, and
Speaker 5: they were going through the proceedings and now they are
Speaker 5: presented with a sort of existential question of well, you know,
Speaker 5: should he be deported? What are we going to do
Speaker 5: as a family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's the sort of thinking that
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the immigrant community are thinking,
Speaker 1: like how many risks can I take? Because, like I said,
Speaker 1: they were just doing a daily necessity. Which will be
Speaker 1: interesting and potentially complicating that even more is what our
Speaker 1: state officials want to do. At the state level, We've
Speaker 1: seen Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick push a priority bill that
Speaker 1: would require cities and counties to cooperate with federal immigration
Speaker 1: enforcement Elmaric, Can you just chime in here a little
Speaker 1: bit about what that kind of legislation, which inevitably is
Speaker 1: going to be controversial at the legislature, Democrats will strongly
Speaker 1: push back against that, what that kind of bill would
Speaker 1: do to a session that so far everybody seems like
Speaker 1: they're behavior and they're.
Speaker 2: All friendly, they're all good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think any bill that is controversial,
Speaker 4: and we should say, like a bill like that is
Speaker 4: controversial in two fronts, right, immigration, but also this question
Speaker 4: of like local control and preemption and how much can
Speaker 4: the state tell these big cities what to do and
Speaker 4: how to run their their their governments basically is just
Speaker 4: potentially something that can like grind the whole thing to
Speaker 4: a halt. And I think, you know, anytime you I think,
Speaker 4: as we talked about last week, right, Dan Patrick forty priorities,
Speaker 4: certainly feels like he has the enough control over the
Speaker 4: Senate to like push through what he wants. But anytime
Speaker 4: you're throwing something controversial in the mix, you are potentially
Speaker 4: it takes time. It takes like floor fights, it takes
Speaker 4: horse trading, its negotiations to the conference committees, like you're
Speaker 4: just dragging it out in a session where I mean,
Speaker 4: obviously Governor Abbott has says he supports this measure. But
Speaker 4: Governor Abbott Republican leadership the House certainly seems to have
Speaker 4: blinders on and saying like, we have one thing to
Speaker 4: do this session, like pass vouchers, stay focused, use our
Speaker 4: capital on that, and now we maybe are going to
Speaker 4: throw this in the mix, right, And.
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing about Governor Abbott's uh, I guess
Speaker 1: position on this is that he did throw out support
Speaker 1: for this, but it's not an emergency item, it's not
Speaker 1: a priority item. So I think that sort of tells
Speaker 1: you something. I think he probably thinks he can get done.
Speaker 1: But like you said, the blind Now, sure are the
Speaker 1: goals he laid out seven of them that are mostly
Speaker 1: in line with what Speaker Borroughs has said he wants
Speaker 1: to get done. And so if you got to focus
Speaker 1: on these seven, do you really want to be taking
Speaker 1: up a big fight over here over something that's definitely
Speaker 1: gonna split Democrats and Republicans and potentially even some Republicans.
Speaker 4: Right, It's like a yeah, it's like just like do
Speaker 4: not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars pass vouchers,
Speaker 4: and like shot of about the rest of it seems
Speaker 4: to be some vibes that were getting even while govern
Speaker 4: abs throwing his support behind some other measures.
Speaker 1: Aljandro, just taking it back one step, can you sort
Speaker 1: of just give us a just context about like how
Speaker 1: the numbers are in terms of migrant crossings compared to
Speaker 1: when President Biden was in office or the first Trump administration,
Speaker 1: Like how necessary are some of these enforcement measures that
Speaker 1: we're seeing.
Speaker 5: Well, I think those are two questions. The border's quiet.
Speaker 5: I think a quiet border got even quieter since Trump
Speaker 5: took office, and it started getting quiet kind of last
Speaker 5: year really from record number of illegal crossings in December
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, Biden implemented a couple orders that really
Speaker 5: kind of helped reduce that. According to his advisors when
Speaker 5: they were in office, they took credit, but also a
Speaker 5: big part of his Mexico's enforcement in some countries in
Speaker 5: Central America. But essentially what we're seeing is low numbers,
Speaker 5: Fewer people than in recent years are trying to cross
Speaker 5: the border. Now, the second question you ask, is this necessary? Well,
Speaker 5: I mean, I think that's an opinion and the current president,
Speaker 5: President Trump, it is of the opinion that it is
Speaker 5: he's declared an invasion, he still thinks like the hundreds
Speaker 5: of crossings that we're seeing now is enough to merit
Speaker 5: his actions. Will that be challenged, that ever means to
Speaker 5: be seen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And important to note Mexico's participation in this, because
Speaker 1: they certainly had a lot of tough enforcement on their
Speaker 1: southern border and now they've got enforcement on their northern border.
Speaker 1: Mexican President Claudia Schinbaum has sent I think ten thousand
Speaker 1: National Guard troops of her own national Guard up there
Speaker 1: in this sort of trade over stopping terroiffts, so they're
Speaker 1: playing a role as well. But it seems like a
Speaker 1: lot of it is also just politics of like he
Speaker 1: made these campaign promises and he wants to deliver on them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the other thing we should I mean
Speaker 4: is like all of this is happening so fast in
Speaker 4: the beginning of the administration sort of as promised. I
Speaker 4: think that's what we expected, and there will it takes
Speaker 4: some time for like the impact to be seen, obviously
Speaker 4: in terms of border crossings, in terms of deportations, but
Speaker 4: also in terms of like you know, there was a
Speaker 4: lot of outrage during the last Trump administration about you know,
Speaker 4: family separation and sort of the way these policies were
Speaker 4: being implemented. It took a little while for like them
Speaker 4: to be fully implemented and people to become aware of
Speaker 4: them and there to be sort of more pushback against them.
Speaker 4: And so I think, you know, we've seen protests already
Speaker 4: at the capital about immigration. I think we've seen protests
Speaker 4: and cities across the state, across the country about President
Speaker 4: Trump' immigration policies. But I also think that I think
Speaker 4: we can expect pretty significant political pushback on this, depending
Speaker 4: on like how this all plays out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe if people start realizing.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like the situation that you wrote about
Speaker 1: where it's a mixed at this family, there's a person
Speaker 1: who's an American citizen but their partner is not. You know,
Speaker 1: people have family members and have good friends that are
Speaker 1: undocumented and they I mean, if they're friends, they may
Speaker 1: not know it. If they are family, they definitely know it.
Speaker 1: And if something happens to those people, there is potential
Speaker 1: for that backlash. So it'll be interesting to see how
Speaker 1: that plays out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like if you you know the price of
Speaker 4: food or eggs goes up because we don't have people work.
Speaker 4: You know, It's like, right, some of that takes a
Speaker 4: while to develop. But I do think you know, President
Speaker 4: Trump's like very focused energy on this issue means like
Speaker 4: a lot is changing really fast, and how the impact
Speaker 4: of all of those changes sort of may take a
Speaker 4: little bit longer to see.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's also I think that's also like a big
Speaker 5: question that means to be seen that my colleagues and
Speaker 5: I haven't covered as much, but I've read other coverage.
Speaker 5: It's like, well, what does that resistance look like? Because
Speaker 5: definitely in Texas, so we haven't seen any mayors or
Speaker 5: county judges you know, really pick a fight, be like
Speaker 5: we're not in this. And part part of that might
Speaker 5: be fear. I mean Trump ordered feral prosecutors to investigate
Speaker 5: such local officials who get in the way. So I
Speaker 5: think that that's also a big question as we look ahead.
Speaker 3: Okay, cool, I think that's a good place to stop.
Speaker 2: But one can I say one more thing before we go.
Speaker 3: Sure, we would.
Speaker 4: Be remiss if we did not wish a happy birthday
Speaker 4: to our Texas Tribune trip cast co host James dash Bargun.
Speaker 3: And you want to sing?
Speaker 2: You told that's what we wanted to sing. Actually, yes, yes, no,
Speaker 2: Happy birthday.
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you James.
Speaker 1: We're gonna end the conversation here, but one of reminder
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Speaker 1: please send them to trip cast at Texastribune dot org
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